Autism Gaslighting - Dating A Neurotypical Series
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 ต.ค. 2024
- Welcome to the 1st episode in the 'Dating A Neurotypical' series - built for Autistic adults from an Autistic adult.
This episode, we are addressing a common manipulative strategy that some narcissistic individuals may use on you - Autistic gaslighting; as well as looking at why we are vulnerable to this gaslighting, and methods to overcome this toxic behavior.
Expect to learn the ins and outs of Autism relationships and how to navigate them as a neurodivergent individual!
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Gaslighting is common in the autism community itself, the $50 cent expert imposing their views on the quite Auty, seen it many times
One person who would gaslight me all the time was my own sister, very much a narcissist, but since I was undiagnosed and until I was 34, I had no idea what was going on. Finally after both my parents passed away about 3 years ago, I was able to cut her out of my life and I've got soooooo much less stress in my life. Thankfully I've got another sister who's supportive and amazing, along with my older brother who is also the best as they both helped me to separate from her since she could just come to my house and talk her way into my life, basically wanting me to take care of her so she can have a cushy life and I'd have to deal with all her problems that only seemed to hurt me. Having people you can rely on to not lie to you and actually tell you how things are in the NT world is what every autistic person needs in their life.
Funny enough, I'm kind of in the same boat as you with the exception that my stepmother was the narcissistic abuser. I didn't realize I was autistic until she died in 2020 from COVID. Because of her gaslighting, it took her passing away to allow me to process that I'm different. I was just officially diagnosed a couple weeks ago at 33 yo.
My Mother who is a very very kind and loving, selfless person, has gaslit me for decades. Maybe unintentionally (I believe), but she still does it and I’m in my late 40s.
I have Asperger’s. She knows it. Doesn’t understand how mind-meltingly toxic that is, nor does she in any way acknowledge she does it (because she can’t recognise it in herself)
That, coupled with endless guilt trips (my brother does it too, they’re VERY much alike) makes me discount the majority of what they say. I don’t ENJOY that, but my time apart from them is utterly blissful.
My autistic bf gaslights me all the effing time talking about direct and indirect conversation within a conversation, like dude what!?!
Autistic people don't play emotional games. They find it almost impossible to lie, it's painful to do so. They do have very black and white thinking and often don't appreciate shades of grey. As a rule they are very literal and honest to a fault sometimes.
They do have very high affective empathy but lack cognitive empathy (the opposite to cluster B personalities). That means they can feel what you feel, but can't predict how you will respond or when you're trying to communicate your needs in subtle roundabout way (you want them to wash the dishes tell then to wash the dishes, don't complain about the state of the kitchen).
Gaslighting is a genuine attempt to mislead someone and convince them that their reality is not real. That is not possible for someone who finds it almost impossible to lie and has a high affective empathy. You need the opposite to be able to gaslight someone.
Therefore I see two possibilities. Either you are correct and your boyfriend is gaslighting you, in which case he is very unlikely to actually be autistic. Move on for your sake.
Or, he is earnestly trying to communicate something to you about your relationship (baring in mind that autism is a neurological developmental disorder that affects communication) and instead of working with him to find the solution to the problem within your relationship, you are on TH-cam complaining about his earnest endeavour to communicate, on another autistic persons channel. In which case, are you sure he's the one doing the gaslighting?
Thomas, my newly diagnosed husband gaslights me ALL the time! Manipulation is not just privy to one particular kind of person. He’s also thrown me under the bus more times than I can mention! Separation is now on the cards after 28 years of this, oh and let’s talk about the invalidating……have you got all day? 🖐🏻
My biggest gaslighting problem was a former friend. Twenty years we were friends and I had no idea she was gaslighting and manipulating me to cover my ex husbands affairs.
Hope things are better now, thats awful to hear about..
Thank you so much for producing this content. I've been dealing with a lot of "imposter syndrome" and actually gaslighting myself after years of invalidation and trauma. It's such a relief to find channels like yours where I can connect with shared experiences of other autistics. I look forward to watching more of your videos!
PS: dude, I know there’s not a go-to cheat sheet of “autistic traits” but I’d NEVER EVER think you had autism, just as many are shocked if and when I tell them. God bless you brother. ❤Matt, Northamptonshire
Wait… … ah! Okay. Sounds very much like stonewalling to me, something I have developed and have done for many years now, with absolutely ZERO caving in, with certain people and behaviours. I’ve handled one abusive family member by HARD BLOCKING them completely on all comms channels - worked a treat and it turned out in the end the issue WAS them as suspected - I’m a very tenacious stonewaller for the couple of family members I’ve sadly had to build this tactic up for.
You LITERALLY may as well be talking to a rock if I know you’re abusing me or have an agenda and trying to “talk me around” - I have a thousand mile bullshit detector, being an ex minor criminal many years ago and being brought up in a family of EXTREMELY talkative people who are drama queens.
My 17 year old autistic daughter is dating a very toxic and abusive guy. She does not understand this and I am having very hard time with this. He has now started telling her lies about us parents to keep her more with him. For example one lie he told her was I as her mother touch him inappropriately. She met the worst guy she could possibly meet. He’s a narcissistic sociopath I believe.
I’m glad you have signposted people to Dr Ramani, Thomas. There seems to be a concerted effort by some (and the y t bots) to guide people looking for answers, away from her excellent material. There are some in these comments along with the bot likes to these comments.
They seem to be more prevalent in videos in which her name is referenced.
THANK YOU SO MUCH I NEEDED THIS EXACT VIDEO AT THIS EXACT TIME!!!!!🎉❤
People on the spectrum can gaslight too. I know for fact. They can have all the dark traits just as much as neurotypical people.
Exactly it’s horrible
Right I'm dating a guy with autism can someone please help me understand if he is he has gotten in my personal space by standing close to me and I told him to stop and he got right near my face
@@babygalstar1992 I have had this exact plus other analogous experiences. It is as if when you express a need, such as I need more space, the other person thinks it's some kind of challenge to double down, i.e. take it to the extreme. This is unacceptable behaviour, but I don't think it's anything to do with autism or the absence of it. The person is acting out their own conflict and unwillingness to accommodate or respect you, and your preference ( boundary). Something kinda burns my ass is, when they pretend it's a funny joke and they're Oh! so clever. Ex person who did this to me regularly is autistic, but again, any neurotypical jerk can do the same. If it's a pattern, it's a problem regardless, particularly if it has been discussed/explained many times. It's not down to autism, neurodivergent different theory of mind. It's down to lack of care and respect.
@@lisbethbird8268 hey thank u for clarifying that for me that's what I thought also took my phone outta my hands while I was using it
@@babygalstar1992 oof! Who does that?
I’ve been in a serious of relationships with narcissists, a couple were romantic but mostly work. Only recently learned about it and see it for what it was.
I relate my friend, they can be a difficult bunch to deal with… especially in romantic relationships 😣
How can you tell the difference between narcissists and neurotypicals?
@@Mondomeyer Narcissists want everything to be about them, they will try and make you feel like everything is your fault, they one-up you on everything, they refuse to take any criticism, they think of themselves as more important than everyone else in the room and being exploitive for their own gain are some of the key identifiers.
@@Mondomeyer I find it hard to believe there is one at this point.
Two completely different things I'm neurotypical I have a good sense of myself and demand love and respect but I'm not narcissistic but I'm very old and the guy that I'm with is 60 and undiagnosed still not sure he knows that he's autistic or or what I'm pretty sure he is though. I'm not really with him really anymore but I'm trying to still have a relationship friendship with him I really need him terribly right now but he's less experienced than I am and I'm afraid he thinks I'm just with him to use him since I'm in need right now but I tried to be very extraordinarily safe and not using him but it's just hard for him to separate any feelings I needed and wanted his love and then now I'm in a terrible life or death situation and still asking for his help and love he doesn't know what to think of it I know he's really not marriage material but I don't think he's going to realize that I'm going down for the count if he doesn't help me he just doesn't get it. He's also had cerebral palsy all his life so I think that his autism was ignored I think he thought that he was different because of that but I came from a different place and I realized that the two things were separate but comorbid anyways I'm 66 so a lot older than probably everybody else on here. He has a milder form of that it's not mild but it's medium only his legs are affected but he can still walk but you can imagine that all of his life he's been treated quite differently and then to have some woman in her 60s just all of a sudden say you're an ass B aren't you and he doesn't even know what I'm talking about can't make eye contact with me and doesn't like to kiss amongst other things really obvious oh well it's a different world you youngsters have grown up in my ex is a psychologist and you know most psychologists they don't even know that much about Asperger's it takes a specialist within a specialist to know these things really well. But I just stumbled upon this and it's it's pretty good hopefully I'll send something to him that he can find relatable a little bit he's very smart but just mostly a computer geek well you can imagine what a 60-year-old would be like in this kind of situation when I'm disappointed and angry and feel unloved and hurt as most neurotypical women can in these situations than I tend to lash out a little bit and maybe Gaslight him but I'm trying to watch myself real carefully.
I often get manipulated as deluded or often got things wrong no wonder it’s difficult for to be confident as being autistic. It’s annoying because being autistic doesn’t mean we always thinking things wrong we actually can get things right just as well as anyone else it can sometimes appear very concrete or very overwhelming honestly towards a person who don’t have autism and also it be can be approached intensive keenness none autistic can mistakes that as narcissistic traits because it’s seem aggressive. None autistic might find that we like parrot repetitive speech which can cause none autistic to give a cold shoulder and shunning us. It’s difficult dealing with sensitive society and often autistic people experienced at least one narcissistic person abuse which no one should suffer by narcissistic behavior of another because they don’t understand and not excepting autism beings
This is so true as someone who just got out of a relationship with a narcissist. 5 years
Great vid and sensitively handled. A tricky topic for us to get our heads around.
Talking of getting my head around stuff - can you oil the chair, or something. The creaking makes me jump whilst trying to listen to you. Sorry, don't mean to complain. Enjoy your work and find it very helpful.
Thanks a bunch! Yess… it’s been irritating me as well, trying to get it sorted out 😁
I LOLd at this comment
Excellent talk, very relatable.
Glad you enjoyed it :)
:'( im hzving z 8 year break up because of this. he wont let me break up with him he gaslights me every chance h gets im made fun of im in the worse place finacially and mentally unstable i have bipolar andnnnnn mood disorder with psychosis , slow processing memory, learning disorder in maths, dyslexic, and adhd. they wont really tell me what i ned to focus on recently psycs are dropping patients for this 3 appointment thing in place issue is u have to rebook every 3 appointments that can take 6 months, i was crying about that and he told me f__ckin sick of Mentsl health stuff , ofmeds not working, sick of my crying sick of me. straight up said that then said he was scared t to talked to ME cause im so emotional, how wouldnt i be emotional> i beome so submissive and i lost myself, they only use me 1 - 2 times a month , after 8 years, its down to once a month visits. im ppushing 30 hes alreay 30 wealthy at home doesnt pay rent car parments done by mom and dad everything is , food, everything clothes shopping, and i got in a fight with him cause i drank and it went bad with my medication he had to take me home. that was a 1 and a year ago and he still uses it against me. i think hes just straight up using me and justifying his behavior cause i "hurt him in the past"
just occured to me that he feels regret towards me more than anything else. exokain
@@psychedlicsouljam1995
Sounds like a lot of mental stress, and the environment doesn't make it any better.
My autistic partner won't let me break up with him either. I found questionable activity with other women on Facebook, like how a girl said when she comes home, she likes to get naked, and sees her bodonka donk in the mirror and she feels like red riding hood. He laughed at it and said he only laughed at the red riding hood part. Which was the last sentence.
My thing was responding and even being interested from the first line, and that's stripping naked.
And a random girl, inbox him hello, and he opened and said hello back, only for her to be a scammer
He said he waited two days to respond,but my thing is: why reply at all? You don't know her. If she wasn't a scammer, how much further would this have gone
He's also gotten aggressive when we argue. I cooked a whole meal once, and it took hours to finish. He kicked my Pilates ball and it bounced around and knocked the food off the stove. He likes to throw things, or knock things off the table, or slam doors when he's angry. He broke the back door by slamming so now we have to use the front and it has no key 🔐.
He's gotten in my face quite a few times to provoke me to hit him. He poked me in my head a few times, and I had to pick up a broom in case he started swinging and he encouraged me to hit him with it. He did all this while I was pregnant.
What sucks is that I'm confused. I keep excusing his behavior and blaming it on autism. Maybe he really can't help himself and I just have to keep him happy. I'm unemployed, and only depend on him to give me $ for household items, so I never really have enough to leave him with.
I spent so much time researching autism for the last several days just to see if I'm not justifying another abusive relationship. I've been there already. From age 19-24, and he was worse. Blacked my eye, broke my foot, choked me until I almost passed out, and cheated on me
This guy, he seems not to be a cheater, like he just goes to work and comes home and sometimes I feel like it's the best I can get despite the neurological issues. A lot of men cheat and that's one thing I'm afraid of.
At the same time, even though he hasn't punched me, he's motioned his hands like he would a few times.
I'm crying just writing things because it hurts and I feel like I need to just leave and stop making excuses for my mental health. At the same time I feel like he's simply autistic and needs someone to love him unconditionally.
I wish you well on your journey too.
I hope we can figure out what's the best move to make
Just beginning to realise I was gaslighted through most of my 20s
My ASD partner gaslights me literally denies what I physically see in front of me 😢
I hear you. ❤God bless you ❤
Oucj
Im sorry
Why are you still with them
And you dont to him. Sometimes it's also called an argument . For instance, my wife and I almost got divorced. I'm sorry before we got married. Broke up because we're drinking. She had a major anger problem, especially when drinking. She thought maybe she was autistic. I'd broken my brain looking through and found the closest thing I could which was borderline personality disorder. I told her this but I also said she needed me to talk to a Doctor and get an expert opinion. Now fast forward years later, after her sister talks to her. Now she convinces her that I have gaslit her and that I am the narcissist and I'm the bad guy. I never told her not to see a Doctor I only told her what I thought maybe was going on and you know what after that? She actually thought that there was a good fit. Did her own research did her own dialectic therapy? But.
Now it's a change of heart and now accuses me of being some sort of gas sweater. Is that fair?
Oh! Thank You 🙏
YES😊
yep.
My daughter makes jokes about me being autistic (harmless fun jokes) but I struggle with this a lot, where I mis judge people based on wot they say as opposed to wot they do then I just can’t understand it.. it really confuses me that people can say stuff and not do it I find it so hard to understand. Currently I’m in a very stressful situation where someone is taking advantage of me. I don’t even think I’m autistic lol I may have some traits..
Me too I don't understand it either
I wouldn't spend too long on the Dr Ramani Narcissism channel, but spend some time if the topic is new. She really knows how to pump out those videos, almost as if to a revenue projection. Content drifts wildly from diagnostic criteria and is woolly at best, and she invents a lot of stuff which you find any reference to in the DSM5 e.g. narcissism subtypes.
I suspect greatly that she is so fluent in these topics because she is a dark triad individual.
Ramani would know about narcissists seeing as she is one herself like most psychiatrists and therapists.
@@gonnfishy2987 Wrong. She is passionate and well versed in the topic because she was a victim herself.
@@stuarttacey I agree that many therapists are narcs. But, she most definitely isn’t one because if you took the time to read her story, then you would see why.
they all gaslight i have been friends with 2 Autistic people
not one of them has taken accountability for out of order behavior towards me as they have no self awareness so they don't think they have done wrong so the make it all about you
so what they do is deflected what your trying to hold them accountable back on you and in the process of talking thing through with them they can become pretty abusive
there very much like narcissist in the sense they have all placed them self on the throne of no wrong doing and just like a narcissist with a Autistic person your dealing with a child in a adults body and people fail to understand this
It is very unlikely that someone who is autistic is gaslighting. Gaslighting is an intentional attempt to mislead the other person into losing touch with reality. This directly goes against the traits that are associated with autism.
People with autism tend to be brutally honest to a fault, granted they often fail to see shades of grey and therefore don't always appreciate the complexity of the situation. However they are not attempting to mislead in anyway, in fact quite the opposite.
Autistic people also have high affective empathy but low cognitive empathy. That means they can feel what you feel, but they can't predict how you may respond or grasp when you're trying to communicate your needs in a subtle way. They can't manipulate you into believing something that is not true, because they can't predict your response. They also experience any pain you experience due to being manipulated, along with you, which is a very strong disincentive to manipulate you. For someone to gaslight another person they need high cognitive empathy and low affective empathy, (the opposite of autism) like someone on the cluster B personality spectrum.
Its also not true to say autistic people have no self awareness, some autistic people have no self awareness, true. Same as some allistic people have no self awareness. Many autistic people are highly self aware, its necessary for those who are high masking to be extremely self aware in order to mask, that's one of the reasons its so exhausting.