Se7en (1995) First Time Watching! Movie Reaction!!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 ต.ค. 2024
- Seven (1995)
I mean if he's Satan himself, that might live up to our expectations, but he's not the devil. He's just a man.
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This video is for commentary and criticism only and is not a replacement for watching Se7en
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A masterfully made movie that left us pretty broken! David Fincher knocks it out of the park again! What are some other David Fincher or similar type movies you would recommend!?
Thank you for the support!
You have to see Zodiac. It's Fincher's masterpiece. Gone Girl too.
Well these are definitely not David Fincher movies, but some hood classics would be nice such as Paid In Full, Training Day, Menace II society, Belly, Boyz N The Hood, American Gangster, City Of God etc Snow On The Bluff would shock you to your core. You went through all the mob movies, now it’s time for the hood shit 😂
All of them, but Gone Girl and Social Network are the best
Girl With the Dragon Tattoo
Zodiac! By Fincher again
This is one of those rare Hollywood movies where the badguy wins hands-down. When Seven came out, none of the marketing included Kevin Spacy, and his name was not in the opening credits, because they didn't want to ruin the mystique by having audiences know who the villain was in advance. I saw this in the theatre when it was new, and man I'm glad I went to a matinee, because when I got outside it was bright and sunny which really helped to distance me from the dark, depressing movie...
This is why I love this movie so much, one of the few movies where they had the balls to have the bad guy outplay the good guys.
@@L3M0N4NDCH3RRYZZ They only outplayed the good guys by having the good guys (and everyone else) be dumb as hell. I would respect this movie 100% more if the bullet that went through John Doe's brain was the last one in the revolver, rather than the first. Brad Pitt's character gave John Doe the easiest possible ending, when there are so many organs in the human body required to sustain life.
@@extantsanity Mills became Rage and when you are enraged, I mean TRULY enraged, you don't spend time contemplating making the other person suffer, you just react without thinking.
Isn't it funny how Hollywood really only does that on rare occasion, yet when it happens it almost always makes for an amazing experience. The Dark Knight is another example. The Joker clearly wins and the movie was an instant classic. Granted, it takes a stellar cast, incredible writing, and great director at the helm to pull that kind of scenario off, but when it works it's cinematic gold.
came here to say this about Kevin Spacy... he wasnt at a premier, he wasnt in the posters, or even talked about...
Brad Pitt is the one you can thank for the film ending as it did (author's intent). Studio wanted to change it to a happier ending, but Brad threatened to quit if they did. The original ending being kept in the final film is because of Brad's steadfastness to the vision of Andrew Kevin Walker (writer).
I wonder what kind of happy ending it would have been.
@@countquackula8539 There’s an alternate ending on the DVD where Freeman shoots Doe instead of Pitt, so Doe doesn’t get what he wants and Pitt doesn’t have that murder on his hands. “Happier” is a relative term.
The original ending was Doe killed by Mills, with no dialogue. They added Somerset's line about the world being worth fighting for as a means of softening the dark ending. Incredible to think THAT was the "happy" addition.
@@allenschneider8579 I like the quote. It's a good addition.
@@alankingsley2916 yea, definitely not happier. Id say more... clever, as it thwarts John Doe's masterpiece.
Kevin Spacey was left out of the opening credits and when this movie first came out none of the ads showed or mentioned him. He was kept as a total surprise to the audience.
Only because he became famous for usual suspects which came out earlier in the same year
I miss films/TV shows with surprises like that.
@@rxtsec1 What do you mean "only." The Usual Suspects made him a star, and being cast as a surprise villain with stars like Pitt and Freeman is a huge flex.
@@Arsolon618 Based on the surprise twist ending of the usual suspects if they show spacey name it would be predictable that he is the killer in seven.
@@rxtsec1 thats an outrageous claim.
He was in Outbreak earlier in the same year before this. Outbreak did more than 3x the box office of usual suspects.
Ok he had a smaller role in that, but he had also already had starring roles and was featured on multiple poster/cover art for some other films he was among top cast for.
All these other films he was normally credited. Here he is specially uniquely credited.
Its totally obvious they didnt want to lead the audience in realizing who the killer was going to be , or even, for a while. The knowledge that this was a film about 1 serial killer specifically.
Id bet this is also clarified in dvd commentary or something too.
The actors didn't know that Sloth was supposed to be alive so everyone's reaction in that scene is a genuine jump scare.
Similar to alien
I'm actually surprise that nobody shot the poor bastard just because of that. It's like a real life zombie just woke up.
Amazing, never knew that
I saw it in the cinema and I very nearly pissed my pants when he came back to life.
I was like wait what?!?! But I suprisingly didn’t jump my buddy who was showing me the film said that’s gotten everyone he’s shown the movie to hehe
Edit: thought you meant movie goers reactions oh wow that’s great!! I should ask my friend
They're so excited at the start, so innocent.
True. So bright-eyed and bushy tailed. Then at the end: that haggard, totally destroyed look.
@@gustonzimasheen What about 12 Monkeys? To me, that movie is kind of similarly dark.
@@adrianrocha49 I love that movie
I totally recommend The Game as your next Fincher movie. It's easily his most underrated and most forgotten film. That's not to say that it's a bad movie. Just the opposite -- it's so good! Also, in case you haven't seen it yet, Fincher was the director and executive producer on the Netflix series Mindhunter, which is one of the crown jewels in the Netflix library. It only ran for two seasons, but it's absolutely brilliant. Totally worth the watch.
Seconded.
"Admit to yourself that it sounds intriguing..."
Great movie. Didn’t realize that was his.
@@BDogg2023 Same, I'm always finding people who don't know about "The Game" and have them watch it.
Agreed. I LOVE The Game.
"that's the most graphic and disturbing thing I've ever seen...and I didn't see it" - sums this movie up perfectly, incredibly dark and violent but the majority of the violence is never seen. Excellent reaction as usual. You should definitely check out Zodiac
I'll take Zodiac over Seven. I think Seven gets played up a bit too much because of the ending. Zodiac is more of a slow burn, character oriented, I just like it better. I wish Fincher and Netflix would actually make a season 3 of Mindhunter! I was so mad when they said they weren't. That was a great Fincher show.
@@Jon.A.Scholt Funny you say that about the ending b/c I've heard before that some thought it wasn't as strong as the first two acts. Then again, people are shocked by different things. These reactors thought the lust murder was more disturbing than the sloth one.
@@jp3813 Now that I think about it, how people are shocked or disturbed by Seven like you said, I think that's why I like it less than Zodiac or Mindhunter. The murders in Seven seem so over the top and unrealistic that it takes me out of the movie. Like the bad guy feeding the gluttony victim or everything that went into keeping the sloth victim alive like paying his bills is so over the top that it sounds almost comical writing it out. Zodiac and Mindhunter are far more terrifying not just because you know it's real but because the mundane aspects of the crimes are all similar to things we've done and places we've been. Seven veers too much into Saw and Hostel torture porn territory.
@@Jon.A.Scholt There's a fan theory that Se7en takes place in Gotham before Batman existed. Hence, there's a comic book feel to it. I always thought that the greed victim would rather take a bullet to the head than torture himself (unless Doe did it for him). But realism doesn't necessarily mean quality. For many, veering too much on the mundane is almost like just watching the news.
@@jp3813 Living in LA at the time and recognizing so many of the locations, it threw me off they didn’t just call it LA. 😂
Pleasant things to take away from this film:
1. Masterful Cinematography
2. Morgan Freeman subway joke laugh scene
Also, David's mispronunciation of "Marquis de Sade."
It launched a whole Nine Inch Nails video aesthetic for mainstream films for an entire decade.
"Just because you have a library card does not make you Yoda"
5:27, the coroner is played by Reg E. Cathey, whom sadly passed away in 2018 at age 59 due to lung cancer.
strong character actor.
I remember him from Square One TV on PBS back in the day.
3:32 huge props to TBR for recognising Nine Inch Nails' song! This is a man of culture here.
Angel Heart has the same noir time feel and dark mystery. The city in Seven is supposed to be New York but it was shot all over LA
One of my favourite movies of all time.
My favourite moment is when Doe walks in the station and screams “detecTIVE!” Kevin Spacey was incredible in this role
Did you know it's a batman movie
One brilliantly executed word and wow
Oh man, Samantha doing the introduction hit different! It was really nice ☺ Love watching your videos guys, thanks for recording even while recovering from surgeries!
Oh man, I didn't even realize it til your comment lol. That was a smooth switcheroo xD
TBR Schmitt "Hello!"
I loved it. More Samantha!
👍
What the heck does TBR stand for??
@@MichelleMabery Democracy? Freedom of speech? The National Anthem? jk
Probably one of the best movies ever made, such a masterpiece of storytelliong, cinematography, acting, editing, music - the whole package is just so powerful in delivering this dark story, it will mark you forever. I will never forget the first time I saw the movie, it was a night premiere at the cinema and it was (funnly) full of cute young couples, thinking they gonna see this cute crime movie with cute Brad Pitt, but then after first 30 minutes, the theatre was left half empty as people started leaving as their stomach could not handle the movie. As the ending credits hit and the sick David Bowie song starts, I turned around only to find a handful of people still watching the movie until the end, with visible shock on their face as if they been to war. One of toughest and most impactful movies I ever seen.
Seven is dissected in many assets in film schools
Interesting experience. I saw the movie opening night at the Mann Chinese Theater on Hollywood Blvd. It held something like 500 people, and my gf and I had to stand in the back for the entire film. No one left. Definitely a darker crowd back in the 90s on HWB…
Yeah, my partner and I went to see this at the cinema (it was supposed to be 'date night'...we had a young baby at home. left with babysitters). We came out in a state of horrified shock, saying to each other that we'd just paid good money to be completely traumatised.
I have seen this at the Premiere in Germany. I just had become an Adult and this was one of the Movies along with Braveheart which I never ever have forgotten. I just had lost a dear Person and this Movie intensified my ongoing Depression. So thanks for that.
@@Ezekielepharcelis Oh that's awful. I'm so sorry you had that experience.
I saw this in a packed theater when it first was released and at the end of the movie you could've heard a pin drop. It left a packed house speechless. It from start to finish disturbed yet kept you intrigued. I havent ever been able to to rewatch the movie just way to devastating.
supposidly the studio wanted morgans character to jump in front and take the bullet, but both brad and Morgan fought for the ending we see here now
For me this is Fincher’s best film
It was crazy good!
@@TBRSchmitt definitely watch his other films like the game and fight club.
@@Luvie1980 They already reacted to Fight Club. Enjoy
My husband and I went to this movie when it came out in 1995. I couldn't watch it again. Then in 2020 when it was the 25th anniversary everyone was talking about it and I was curious enough to watch it again.... and be reminded of why I was never going to watch it again. David's torture and break down at the end just destroys me. I almost feel like something happened to a friend of mine. That empty sadness when you learn of their death.
This film is one of those which made me question why our culture makes such films, why we choose to see them, and indeed why so many recommend them to others despite, as you say, their often being so extremely dark in nature. Please see my reply to the comment posted by Alek Grguric, as I would be interested in your thoughts (when I look at the comment list, Alek's post is the one directly above your own).
I'll ask the same question I posed to Alek: if you were able, would you reach back and tell your 1995 self and husband not to see this film? If so, and assuming your younger self would naturally ask why, what would you say? I guess what I'm getting at here, explained in more detail in my reply to Alek, is that I think it's possible for certain films to damage us at a certain level, but I'm uncertain whether the nature of such damage could be be put into words that would be sufficient to convince our younger self to walk away.
To me it just seems like, in terms of produced film content, something happened in the early 90s, the nature of what was being made took a very dark turn. A lot of movies in the 80s were far more positive and uplifting, such as "Ghostbusters", yet today such films are often referred to with a certain degree of derision, like there was something wrong with making or seeing a film that evokes positive feelings. A bit like the mocking response one may receive if one says that it's nice to listen to an Abba song.
We seem to be choosing to wallow in darkness, because nowdays with modern film making it is possible to make that darkness beautiful to both the eye and mind. If this is true, then it does not bode well for the future of our culture.
Lastly, what did your husband think of the film back in 1995? And at the time, were you honest in conveying your own feelings afterwards? If not, do you think you should have been? What does your husband think of the film now? Does he regret having ever seen it?
@@mapesdhs597 The questions you've raised here and in the comment to Alek (concerning what I think of as 'psychic damage') completely resonate with me and are extremely valid, even though I don't personally regret having seen Se7en at the cinema in 1995 (despite feeling traumatised by it at the time). And in spite of never having wanted to watch it again since.
Would I go back in time and decide to watch it (knowing what I know now)? Possibly not. Yet I still can't regret having seen it.
For one thing, I've always considered regret a pointless emotion.
And Se7en is, regardless of its darkness, a very clever film which I appreciate for that reason. I feel that material which 'gives voice' to the darker side of humanity does have value if it is intelligently presented.
But I understand the points you are making and feel that, in general, people often don't give enough thought to the ways in which certain kinds of material may have a long-term negative impact on their psyches.
This is a hallmark movie for a variety of reasons. One big one is you can see the heavy influence it had on films and TV that came after. It reimagines the crime thriller and blends the dark/horror elements that we now see in this genre.
Lol...I initially thought you meant a Hallmark Channel movie....
@@SuperDKUK lol
@@SuperDKUK me too😅
If Hallmark made movies like this I would watch that channel more often. Or once even.
The "yell fire not help" line is one of the points of the movie- nobody cares unless it could affect them directly.
There have been many theories that the movie takes place in the same universe as BATMAN, implying that it takes place in Gotham City.
That's crazy, the specific city was never address in Se7en right?!
@@TBRSchmitt no it was filmed to be any big city. But it was filmed in LA.
Just shows how an amazing director, great script, and great actors can turn a gimmicky crime drama storyline into one of the most memorable movies of the past 50 years!
The theme of Apathy runs through almost every event in Seven. It makes for such a dark, cynical view of the world and this is the prism through which the city is presented to us. Somerset hates the city he has sworn to protect. All his years on the force have caused him to be cynical, jaded, and apathetic. He says, "In a big city, minding your own business is a science". The idea is reinforced when he explains in rape prevention, the first thing women are taught, is to not yell "help". NO ONE responds to "HELP" but instead to yell "FIRE".
@Dayspring the weird part is it only happens after each use of a period
@@mikethemotormouth I use the space to make the longer comment less intimidating to read. Instead of making it seem like one jumbled idea. The mind breaks it into 3 or 4 simple statements. Gives the comment a better chance of being read.
@@lethaldose2000
John Doe?
@@lethaldose2000 Just as feedback, it leaves an impression of the writer being unknowledgeable about form, and makes me view the text through that tainted lens before the content is even consumed.
I much prefer breaking text with the return key, like how we traditionally format text.
Obviously that's just how I view it, and you may be right in your assumption that it helps the text be read. Just thought I'd give you feedback on the theory.
@@lethaldose2000 Yes, you definitely recognized the apathy that was pervasive throughout the film. However, this story is very often misunderstood because of how much it shocks our emotions and stifles our clarity. This was a story of HOPE. Detective Somerset (Morgen Freeman) had given up on his career and purpose of life because he was burned out by so much wickedness in this world. He is quitting because he was weary of all the darkness. But at the end after all that happens he says “I’ll be around” . . . and he also says that “the world is worth fighting for.” He chose hope, and decided not to quit. This is a major message of this film that is often overlooked because of our shocked emotions. Actually a very positive ending, considering the difficult journey.
You can just see "The Batman" from this movie.... Mat Reeves indeed was inspired by this movie and Zodiac as well... the vibe the scenematography, the moment he said by which movies the new Batman was inspired I knew this was gonna be dark and gritty af and it was absolutely perfect just like this one.
The best part was when John Doe lectured the cops on white privilege and everyone in the theater applauded for two hours.
@@JDoe-gf5oz What the hell are you talking about?
@@Corn_Pone_Flicks it's a ripoff of Seven.
@@JDoe-gf5ozwhat is
After 27 years Se7en is STILL the darkest movie I've ever seen. Great movie.
Try Johnny got his gun
Fantastic movie. That ending is such a surprise. Glad I saw it at the movie theatre for the full cinematic experience.
26:04, RIP, Michael Massey. He was in The Crow as Funboy, played Man In The Shadows in TASM 1 and 2, and a serial killer, or a mass murderer in hit TV series like Criminal Minds, Supernatural, The X Files, and MillenniuM. He passed away in 2016 from Stomach cancer.
Shaine White
I believe he was also the unfortunate actor who fired the fatal shot at Brandon Lee in that tragic movie accident. I heard he was never the same after that. Even if it wasn't his fault I'm sure it doesn't make it any easier to live with knowing you pulled the trigger. So sad!
*Massee
Fincher’s masterpiece: Zodiac. Followed by The Game and Gone Girl, both very good and enjoyable.
Fight Club.
I saw this in the theater. The entire audience sat in silence when it was over. Even when we started filing out of the theater, no one said a word. It was that shocking. Fun fact: Brad Pitt actually broke his arm during the chase scene and they just worked it into the film.
When I went to see it in theaters, I met a friend of mine who was just leaving the previous showing. He just gave me a blank stare and walked away without saying a word.
The “ oh, he didn’t know…“ With that smirk is by far one of my favourite moments in a movie I hate it so much but it’s so good. I can’t handle it.
minor trivia: the table in the diner where somerset meets tracy is the same table where alonzo meets jake in "training day" (2001)
I've been waiting all night for this!!! Feel better I'm 32 years old and never had a problem with any tooth but I saw my father crying from a tooth.
Hope you enjoy! The mouth can be a pain in the butt sometimes but I will be just fine, thank you!
@@TBRSchmitt Poor Sam, if that's how you got a sore mouth. I'm kidding TBR. Don't hurt me!
I saw this movie in the theater when it was released in 1995. I found it to be an excellent and very disturbing movie. I had trouble sleeping for a couple of days after the viewing. 😓
I never knew TBR's name was Daniel. I thought it stood for his initials, Totally Boss Reviewer or something 😅
I always thought TBR was based on a pirate, reading the works of William Shakespeare: "TB. ARRR not TB? That is Thaaar question matey". jk
TBR = the best reactor :)
@@cineeggs630 Ah, that sounds much better! 😄
@@FrldyZX87 aww, i wouldn't say better
The grimy and rainy aspect of this movie are the best elements for me. Lots of scenes at night too.
I love movies like this one. Not too many of them around tho
Found out Fincher was 29 when he directed this. Dude, what happened to him growing up to be like this.
Now that is a very good question... 8|
Fincher was coming off Alien 3 which was a disaster. FOX was doing all they could to blacklist him out of hollywood. Koppleson, the producer of this movie (who happened to be disgruntled with fox himself) had been intrigued with Fincher - especially since Sigourney Weaver defended Fincher so staunchly to the press; calling him a visionary who needs to be taken seriously. This lead koppleson to take a shot on Fincher. fincher knew he was getting a second chance with this movie and directed his ass off.
Her statement "he was the funniest guy I ever met" drew from me the same reaction as Freeman's:
*in total shock* "have you met only 3 guys - including me?"
4:18, this film, BLADE RUNNER, All The President's Men, Klute, Chinatown, The French Connection, and Scarface are a major influence on THE BATMAN.
You guys are by far my favorite reactors on TH-cam. Genuine and no gimmicks. Really appreciate you both.
I'd recommend Gone Girl and Zodiac, also Panic Room.
As for similar disturbing serial killer films.
Two come to mind, Resurrection and The Bone Collector.
Not top tier, but still pretty good films.
How bout DRAGON TATTOO? But I like your pix.
If they watch bone collector, DO NOT WATCH THE TRAILER.. it gives the ending away!! Editor shoulda been shot
Woah! This reaction is FULL of twists. That Opening!
Interesting to note that the only murder we actually see committed is that of John Doe himself.
Also, the shaky cam on John Doe during the chase sequence as opposed to the much steadier shots of Mills and Somerset in the same sequence help to enhance the idea that Mills and Somerset are the ones in control at this point after having messed up John Doe's plans. Contrast that to the the steady shots on John Doe in the final sequence as opposed to the chaotic shaky camera work on Mills and Somerset; at this point John Doe is in complete control.
I really hope you get around to seeing The Elephant Man; an exceptional and very emotional movie.
One of my all time favorite movies! You guys have to react to Memento!
I took my girlfriend to see this on a date night, but halfway through I fell asleep. Had been a long work day unfortunately and the cinema was nice and dark. hehe. Had to watch this later on, of course to find out what happened.
I was shocked to find out this movie was filmed entirely in LA... As an LA native, I didn't even recognize it Lol
The Batman film draws some inspiration from Se7en and some True Detective: Season 1!
And Zodiac.
I had just moved to Seattle from AZ to start a new job. My first day on the job, I had to travel to Portland for training with my new Regional Manager. He always liked to watch movies so he chose Seven. It was a very awkward night to say the least. He looked at me afterward and simply apologized and laughed at the same time. Such a freaky movie.
"WHAT'S IN THE F****** BOX"🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
pain.
@@TBRSchmitt "We've Been Trying To Reach You About Your Car's Extended Warranty"
if you want a another really good Fincher movie, watch The Social Network. Also, I would try Fallen with Denzel Washington. Great reviews, I really like your channel
Love Fallen, never gets old for me.
Fallen is creepy af!! Time is on my side!!
Seven...aka the movie that gave back the passion of making movies to David Fincher after the disaster that was the production of Alien 3 ! After Alien3, David Fincher was done with cinema and working with 20th Century Fox, but with Seven, they gave him complete control and we have one of the best detective suspense thriller movie of the last 30 years ! Can you imagine cinema if David Fincher didn't do Seven ?!? No Fight Club, Zodiac, Gone Girl or Social Network !!
I still, to this day, do not think Alien 3 is a bad movie. I seriously don't get the hate. It's dark. It's gritty. I really enjoy it.
@@hashtagfilm It was a lot better than Alien: Resurrection.
@@hashtagfilm I agree too, but I feel there was a even better movie inside it that could have been...
Thank you TBR Schmitt! I've heard a lot about you. Except, of course, your FIRST name. Daniel, viewers. Viewers, this is Daniel.
Hi I watch every upload but I think I'll sit this one out lol. This movie is disturbing beyond belief.
Totally understandable! Thanks for the support in commenting
One thing i always found interesting in this movie is the entire city location and the constant raining. The city is never named(not on the police cars or badges etc) its just the background for the story.
Ayyyyyy not exactly the most cheerful movie but still a fun addition to my boring Saturday night, keep up the good work guys, love your videos
Hope your Saturday nights are great and thank you for the support!
@@TBRSchmitt May I ask, please see my reply to the posts by Alek Grguric and Ms Darby, I would be interested in your thoughts.
@@TBRSchmitt I like this movie also enjoy action movies and certain drama movies like Al Pacino, Robert Dinero, Robin Williams, Brad Pitt , the list goes on lot of eighties and nineties movies I enjoy watching repeatedly while snacking and beverages .
Still gave me chills watching people realize what’s about to happen
But did you realize it's a batman movie?
Watching the movie with commentaries from Fincher and Pitt they mentioned the city as its own character and funny thing you cannot say which city the entire movie is located and they actually plan that which is brilliant.
Also the fact we have NIN song in the movie is a small hit of Fincher love for Trent's music which later gave them many collaborations in recent years.
I really liked how they didn’t name the city, it’s sort of a nightmarish blend of the worst of New York and Los Angeles with bits of Chicago and some North-Western cities.
The menacing unknown city is a criticism of American lifestyle: the same ugly concrete-glass grid cities everywhere, interchangeable, filled with the same social problems which are not specific to any American city but to the American society. Had this been set in Europe you would have known the city after 5 min just because of the architectural features.
@@andrewburgemeister6684 It’s Gotham. With Batman gone on Justice League duty, or something.
It was shot all around downtown Los Angeles. I lived in the area for five years after partial gentrification. I had been inside a few of the locations including the Hotel Alexandria ballroom and the Hotel Rosslyn.
@@davidw.2791 Based.
Lengthy read but fascinating analysis of the film's themes:
Apathy is the biggest theme of the film. Many discussions within the film allude to it. Aside from the obvious apathy speech Somerset (Morgan Freeman) gives to Mills (Brad Pitt) in the bar, but also when Somerset explains how the first thing women are taught in rape prevention class is to not yell "help" because no one responds to "help" but instead to yell "fire" (as Somerset put it "in a big city, minding your own business is a science"). People in big cities are apathetic to any one stranger's individual suffering but a fire can spread to multiple buildings which affects everyone, which is why people respond to "fire".
Throughout the film, Somerset repeatedly mentions how much he hates the city. All his years on the force has caused him to be cynical, jaded and apathetic. Particular example: all the noise, police sirens, screaming and crime that he hears outside his apartment window keeps him up at night which is why he uses a metronome, to drown out the noise. He has become apathetic to the crime going on just outside his place-- the metronome is symbolism for Somerset's apathy. Also, note, right after Mills denounces Somerset's apathy speech in the bar ("I don't think you're quitting because you believe in the things you say, I think you want to believe them because you're quitting"), Somerset goes home that night and destroys the metronome. Mills's words really affected him causing Somerset to care at least a little bit again, which is why he destroyed the metronome (i.e. his apathy).
And John Doe's words during the car ride "Only in a world this shitty can we say these were innocent people. We see a deadly sin on every street corner and we tolerate it. We tolerate morning, noon and night." APATHY. Also, many characters, even minor ones, are super judgmental and have little sympathy for people's suffering. Like when the SWAT team raids the apartment of the mummified sloth victim tied to the bed, the lead SWAT cop (played by Bob from "Office Space") says to him "you got what you deserved"-- but then when he's alive and taken to the hospital, the doctor says "he's experienced about as much pain and suffering as anyone I've encountered... and he still has Hell to look forward to." To me, it was always such a bizarre thing for a doctor to say given their Hippocratic oath and their duty to care but ya know... APATHY.
THE LAWYERS:
The lawyer that's punished for greed, as John Doe put it "this is a man who dedicated his life to making money by lying with every breath he could muster to keeping murderers and rapists off the streets." That lawyer didn't care about justice or morality.
Also, John Doe's lawyer has virtually no emotion while he's blackmailing the cops with John Doe's plea bargain. Either they agree and John Doe pleads guilty or if they don't agree, John Doe will plead insanity. The lawyer says "with the extreme nature of these crimes, I could easily get him off with such a plea." The lawyer seems quite apathetic to justice and the victims of the case while he, as Mills puts it, sits there in his $3000 suit (indicating he's much like the slain greedy lawyer). He also says to them "if you don't agree to my client's specific conditions, these two bodies will never be found" to which the black district attorney (Richard Roundtree) retorts "at this point, I'm inclined to let them rot" -- APATHY. Also the lawyer in the same scene: "My client would like to remind you that two more people are dead. The press would have a field day if the police didn't seem to concerned about finding them and giving them a proper burial."
THE SMALL BUSINESS OWNERS:
The proprietor of the whorehouse is questioned by Mills in the glass interrogation room. Mills asks him "you didn't see anything strange or suspicious, anyone with a package under their arm?" He responds with "everybody coming in there has got a package under their arm, some people have suitcases full of stuff". The man "sees nothing" and questions nothing. Mills then asks him "do you like your job, the things you see?" To which he responds, "No, but that's life, isn't it?". He doesn't like it, but he tolerates it because it's a living. APATHY. Also the owner of the S&M leather shop who designed the knife strap-on costume is asked disgustedly by Somerset "you actually made this for him?" The owner replies "yea, so what, I made weirder shit than this." APATHY
This might be reading too much into it but the pizza shop where they meet the FBI agent with the library files. Somerset mentions that the pizza shop must have had "at least 50 health violations last inspection". They clearly don't care about standards and safety. APATHY. And for some reason, the city didn't even shut them down. Did the health dept simply tolerate it? More apathy??
Also, the real estate agent that sold the "subway" apartment to Mills and his wife. The man was a scumbag who only cared about selling the place and obviously didn't care about their discomfort. APATHY. And also, the sloth victim's landlord was just happy that the rent was always paid on time and that there were no complaints from or about that tenant. He never bothered to ever check up on him. APATHY.
DETECTIVE MILLS:
Also notice Mills is the only character that "cares" in the film. As Somerset sarcastically asks him, "you want to be a hero and you're gonna make a difference?" Mills, the only character who supposedly "cares" gets punished the most in the film; his whole world gets turned upside down by the end. Mills, the man and his philosophy on life, is destroyed-- and he will undoubtedly become as jaded and cynical as Somerset. Mills's own words to John Doe in the car, "I don't see you as a Messiah. After 2 months, no one will remember this. No one will care. You're a movie of the week, you're a fucking T-shirt at best." Also, when Mills tells the story of when he fired his gun in the line of duty, he remembers how he felt during the incident but can't remember the name of his fellow cop that was shot-- this was after he witnessed the first few murders. I think this was supposed to signify the small but subtle beginning of the erosion of Mill's sympathy. But I could just be looking too much into it.
Also, again, note at the end of the film when Mills is put into the back of the police cruiser, the captain (Lee Ermey) says to Somerset "don't worry, we'll take care of him"-- which pretty much means the department will cover up the incident. Even though Mills murdered a suspect, the captain and the rest of the police department is APATHETIC to his crime (Mills's sin of wrath will go unpunished).
The film is just swimming with apathetic characters and I'm sure there's other examples that I haven't mentioned. But goddamn, what a script! It seems like no line of dialogue or detail is accidental or wasted. It all serves a purpose and contributes to the story's themes.The film is almost sickening and revolting given the themes and how effective it is at conveying them; the screenplay is astonishingly literary. It's a brilliantly written masterpiece. How it didn't get nominated at the Oscars is baffling. I highly recommend watching this video which explores the film in greater detail:
@ th-cam.com/video/uKSDctC2o-s/w-d-xo.html
Interesting. Just one point: the man at the window of the "club" probably wasn't the owner. He was just a guy who needed a job and he was stuck there. Maybe he had a criminal record and this was all he could get. As he said, he didn't like what he saw going on, but what could he do?
In that sense he is another metaphor for humanity, just like Summerset: he's stuck there watching all these awful things that actually do bother him, but what can he do? So he becomes apathetic.
Obviously, John Doe is a hypocrite, but that just makes the prequel comics hit even harder.
Like in the “Lust” issue. A so-called slut girl in his class was basically stoned to death. Highly implied that John’s mom told her on the fundamentalist-conservative townsfolk. And yet, the mom was an actual promiscuous **** even as she moralizes to John about daring to have lustful thoughts. No wonder he turned out so screwed.
the only part I don't agree is what's going to happen to Mills. I don't think the police are going to cover it up. I think he's going to jail and "everything he needs" means the are going to try to help him, like a good lawyer or more mundane things like if he needs clothes, a coffe, food, or when he's in jail trying to make his stay in there less horrible.
@@pelgervampireduck Cops especially then like to cover for other cops.
@@rustincohle2135 I know, back then, today, in all times cops cover up for other cops when they do something wrong, but I think in the universe of the movie it's implied he's going to jail. We can't know for sure, maybe they cover up for him, but even if he goes free, his life is destroyed anyway. He's another victim of the crazy psychopat.
This is the definition of a masterpiece. I've watched this movie many times for 20 years since I saw it twice in theater, and it still a great film to watch.
This film is in my top 3 films of all time. The feeling I had after watching it the first time sat with me for weeks
Recommendation for you to react: Jeepers Creepers (2001).
So surprised you guys haven't seen this before! It's a masterpiece! Great video! You guys always shine!
Somerset did change though. Mills really got to him and him throwing the metronome was him literally not being able to allow himself to drown out and ignore the noise of the world around him anymore.
His answer in the end that he will be around confirms that he won't retire, but keep fighting the good fight and try to do what he can to be a force for good in the world, because he can't give in to the apathy anymore.
The final line of the movie also confirms this: Ernest Hemingway once wrote: "The world is a fine place and worth fighting for". I agree with the second part.
Bro I swear I was subscribed to y’all. Thank god the algorithm lead me back to you guys. Love your movie reactions.
8:00, BINGO!, the killer is mimicking the 7 Deadly Sins.
I love David Fincher. He's an amazing director. You should watch Gone Girl, Panic Room, or The Game
This one and The Usual Suspects came out around the same time and, as crime dramas, kind of shook things up with their twisty endings. I think Silence of the Lambs came out a couple of years before but it's interesting to see a crime drama as a horror film develop its own genre with these movies.
The Usual Suspects is on our list! I’ve seen it but Sam hasn’t!
@@TBRSchmitt PLEASE REACT TO THE EQUALIZER DENZEL AND BAD BOYS WILL SMITH PLZZZ
@@TBRSchmitt Have you seen "Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil"? Directed by Clint Eastwood. Recommended viewing.
@@kwanwallacephotography5145 - *Bad Boys* from 1983 with Sean Penn is a good movie.
@@jowbloe3673 yeah but I like will smith versions better
I would highly recommend Gone Girl and Panic Room.... Both Fincher classics and well worth the watch. But you really can't go wrong with any Fincher film barring maybe Alien 3, and considering the production hell and studio interference with that film, even Fincher disowns it to this very day. The behind the scenes stories about that film are pretty legendary though. Almost as crazy as the on set insanity of Blade Trinity.
Sorry about the mouth pain ( dental work) hope your feeling better now.
I will be all right! Thank you!
@@TBRSchmitt glad to hear it . Btw that other book samantha was trying to figure out was paradise lost ( john milton)
I was a senior in high school working a Regal cinema when this film came out. In retrospect, a FANTASTIC time to see films for free. I’m glad you enjoyed this film.
Wow!! unusual to hear Sam do the intro. HAHAHA I'm used to her saying the usual "Hellooo" part. And his name is DANIEL?!?! I would have never known. I always thought TBR was his initials. 🤷♂ Good to hear you talk, Samantha!!! Get well soon, TBR aka Daniel!
David Fincher and Andrew Kevin Walker(the writer of Se7en) are working together again on a new film called "The Killer" starring Michael Fassbender and Tilda Swinton.
This has always been one of my favorite movies. It's an absolute masterpiece in every aspect. I think it's such an interesting film in terms of the conversations it opens up. In terms of the ending and the overall message that you take away, I feel like it can go different ways depending on how you look at it. On the one hand, it could be seen at face value that the murderer won, Brad Pitt represented someone driven to the edge and giving in, the world is a dark place and can break you if you let it etc. but at the same time, you could look at it in terms of John Doe only won if you buy into his view of the world, Brad's character is sympathetic in terms of "What would you do if you were in that situation? Does him killing John define who he is?Just like did the other victims' 'sins' define them?" and the message you take away depends on asking several things such as: "Is the world really just dark and evil or is there nuance? Does it depend on our job, our personal view of things, what we choose to focus on? Does acknowledging the fact that there is darkness in the world mean that the good matters or means less?" - There are so many questions and is so much commentary about the world, people, good and evil, how we react to things, how we let things affect us, how our worldview is created, what makes us good or bad and how we define ourselves and others....there is SOOOOO much to unpack, this movie is anything but simple, straight-forward, or just meant to be depressing and dark in my opinion. It's definitely taken several viewings for me to formulate my overall view of it though because it is A LOT to take in for sure. But I think this is why it's so brilliant because it looks and seems like one thing and one thing only but there are really so many layers that make you think about a lot of things.
I also think Morgan Freeman and Brad Pitt's characters represent this dilemma and these questions. Is Brad's character wrong or naive for not being as depressed and pessimistic as Morgan's character? And conversely is Morgan's character right in his pessimism or is it just a bi product of the effect of his job and the horrors he's been exposed to? I also think the ending quote and the fact that Morgan's character says it IS actually positive - he still knows that the world is not a "fine place" but he agrees with the fact that it IS still worth fighting for despite that fact. There is hope there in his saying that and it actually shows that his character despite appearances has not been 100% beaten down. This also makes you wonder about Brad's character and that there might be hope for him to overcome this as well, like John didn't actually fully break him - he didn't win - he only wins and that worldview only wins if you allow it to. It's easy to allow the very real evil in the world to paint our view of things and drag us down into "it's just not worth it" but our strength comes from continually choosing to acknowledge the bad and then carry on fighting for the good. That's how that end quote affects me personally and that's the message that I take away now that I've seen it a few times and processed everything.
I could go on and on but those are some of my thoughts about it. I'm glad you guys watched it and it affected you the way it did, it did its job for sure lol ;)
Additionally - in my opinion, Brad Pitt's performance at the end is some of the best acting ever captured on screen. I am floored every time I see it; I think he deserves so much more credit not only for this movie but in general as an actor. I think he's phenomenal.
And, it's a perfect example of a film that gets to you because of you filling in the gaps of the horror with your imagination. You do see things but not everything, some things are only talked about and I think the what you do see versus what you don't is perfectly balanced for effectiveness.
One of my favourite films of all time, the whole cast nailed!
Sam’s intro made me smile 😁 I love the atmosphere of the film, sad, melancholic, with the rain as a companion all over the time. It makes you feel that dirty mood or sensation so similar, as other people has commented, to the Batman imaginery.
not sure why but i love watching you guys watch films ive seen, and the fact you do 50 or so mins makes me feel like ive seen it all again. great stuff.
This movie was an absolute masterpiece. One of my favorite aspects of the film is how they made the city itself a character. It's wet, it's sticky, it's filthy, it's infected, it's dark. It's a living, breathing entity that makes everything happening in the movie (no matter how horrendous) seem completely par for the course.
“This isn’t going to have a happy ending. It’s just not possible.”
“Hey man, we catch him, I’ll be happy enough.”
“If we catch John Doe, and he happens to be the Devil, and I mean Satan himself in the flesh, he might live up to our expectations.
But he’s not the Devil. He just a man.”
“What’s in the box? What’s in the box?” This Fincher masterpiece is one of my all time favorites. This was before the internet and social media, so keeping Kevin Spacey’s involvement under wraps was pretty easy. 😅
Spacey was also just breaking out.
I saw this in the theater when it was released. There is not a single movie I can ever remember my walk back to the car afterwards and just silently thinking how weird I felt after watching. I can still to this day remember that walk back to the car and just thinking I’ve never felt this way after a movie.
With that said it really is one of my favorite movies.
Just curious, have you ever seen, "Donnie Darko"? I recall reading some extraordinary comments by those who'd seen it upon first release, especially younger viewers.
@@mapesdhs597 I really enjoyed DD as well. It was strange but much more fun. Maybe that’s not the best word but there was a bit more comic relief. You’re right though, definitely makes you think afterwards about “what the hell did I just watch?”
@@poppys34 Yup. In a documentary I saw about DD one young guy said he'd gone to see the film with his gf, but it set him thinking so much about things that afterwards he dumped his gf. I mean blimey...
Kevin Spacy agreed with the producers of the movie that his picture and name should be left off of the original movie poster for this movie.
One the poll: a definite must is one flew over the cuckoo’s nest …and goodwill hunting. Momento is another must see for its construction. And elephant man is superb.
This and the new Batman movie was awesome!
Absolutely!
@@TBRSchmitt yeah the new Batman movie most likely influenced by seven especially the way the riddler was portrayed in the movie.
First time I watched Seven, I just assumed Mills being so hotheaded and emotional was to counter Somerset’s more calmer and wiser character. Now I realize he was pretty much always set up for a fall. The guy was an ideal candidate for Wrath from the beginning.
"It's refreshing to see a man feed off his emotions."
But then, how did John Doe know a year in advance that he'd be transferred, and have a wife? It seems like a plot hole but I would rather theory craft as to how much deeper that goes!
The most underrated part of this movie imo is the score by Howard Shore. I can’t think of any composer who’s as good at creating an atmosphere with an orchestra, and I say that as a John Williams fan boy.
Lord of The Rings was his masterpiece comparable to Wagner and the epic opera pieces!
Automatically heard the House, MD intro theme in my head because you mentioned Shore score.
Really? So you know what the score is "rated" compared with the other aspects of the film?
I remember seeing the trailer for this on the Mortal Kombat VHS and that alone gave me chills. Ended up being one of my favorite movies. Keep on keeping on with the content, you guys are killing it.
I saw this movie in the theater in 1995 and loved it. A friend of mine saw it at the same time and he hated it. We were e-mailing back and forth about movies we were watching as he was living out of state and said that another film that came out at the time "Jumanji" was so much better. He and his wife were raving about how much they loved it and I thought "Jumanji" was a steaming heap of dung with awful use of primitive CGI and unimaginative story. After seeing "Se7en" I recall grabbing a copy of "The Divine Comedy" to read. I had already read the "Canterbury Tales" years before in an English literature class. Thanks for the great reaction and review.
Fincher's original planned ending was to end the film with a fade to black after Mills' shot from a low angle, leaving the audience several seconds in shock in the dark before the credits rolled. The actual ending with the Somerset quote was the producers' idea.
Yeah, he had to compromise since the test audience didn’t like that ending.
Strange it doesn’t seem to be on DVD/Digital as an alternative more bleaker ending.
That would be better.
@@ramudon2428 you could do it with editing software of some sort to just go to the credits with a cut to black.
@@andrewburgemeister6684 I could do it with lego as well, but that's not really the same either.
I mean, I can envision the ending without those things, and I'm just saying I like it better than what they ended up going with.
Supposedly there was also an ending shot where it was Somerset who shot John before Mills can. Mills was shocked, but Somerset says “Well I was about to retire anyway.” That was the only way they could have denied JD his sweet, sweet “moral victory”.
"What's in the box" comes from 2 movies. This one and Dune. In Seven he doesn't get an answer and is likely the one most often quoted. In Dune the character that asks does get an answer.
This is one of only 2 films where my mouth was literally open when the credits rolled
1. Se7en
2. Schindler's List
Bring out the spaghetti. jk
@@gustonzimasheen lol
This is the film that cemented David Fincher as my all-time favorite director, he's just so fantastic at this genre. I only wish I was old enough to have watched in theaters, from the comments, it sounds like an amazing experience. That Spacey reveal is still so damn satisfying.
Let’s go!!!! Excited to watch this!
Hope you enjoy!!
@@TBRSchmitt Enjoy? Ummm?....about that....jk
I think "That was INTENSE" is basically a standard review for any David Fincher film.
Guys, as a third-shift worker, I always appreciate your videos popping up in the middle of the night, on *my* hours while the sun-dwellers sleep! Always a nice surprise! 👍
I'm in the same boat and I always hope for a new TBR video during lunch time in the middle of the night. 😁
It was nine inch nails in the intro music... great movie and great reaction...love watching u guys!
I must've seen this movie a dozen of times, *and it still freaks me out,* I love it.
There was this implication that letting him plead insanity would have been letting him get away with it. But there's no set release date when you're found criminally insane, and it's not uncommon for people to be locked up for life in a mental institution when they would've been released from prison after a relatively short sentence.
This movie is so good. Originally Denzel Washington was supposed to play Brad Pitt character.
Brad Pitt was amazing and I am sure Denzel would have crushed it like he does every role!
R. Lee Ermy, who played the police chief (best known as the drill sargent from "Full Metal Jacket") was approached by Fincher to play John Doe originally, but Ermy didn't feel he was right for the role.
Although Freeman was as always superb, it would have been interesting to see him as Det. Somerset
@@jackthenarrator4735 That man always had great instincts.
@@TBRSchmitt have either of you guys watched 'Book of Eli' with Denzel?
I was working at the movie theatre and I watched this in THX w/ my gf. Truely disturbed me to the core, to the point I worked at the medical investigators office after graduating college. There some heinous $#!T that happens and this movie exemplifies the worse of it very beautifully. The one thing it captures great, is there are no winners in the end, and you walk out of the theatre with your soul dry and possibly shattered.
Was about to go to sleep and then yall drop this? HERE WE GO!
The more time passes, I'm realizing I've been putting "Fight Club" over "Se7en" just so that John Doe does not win.
Luckily enough time has passed that you were able to go in blind to this without expectations. Same for me I saw this at the theatre when I was in high school and holy geez it was intense. I have rewatched it over the years. without that first time shock factor you can really appreciate just how excellent the actors are in this. And the set design and lighting. This whole film really is outstanding. I'm glad you guys enjoyed it. And cheers to a speedy recovery for you.