UPDATED Version of this Video: th-cam.com/video/Ez9M0zZdWtY/w-d-xo.html Disclaimer: Originally when making this video I was making it for a close personal friend of mine who wanted to know if his neighbor's dog was going #2 in his yard. So if you are buying/selling land/property ALWAYS higher and pay a land surveyor to get them exact. This video was meant to be an aid for those with a minor dispute that they didn't want to spend money to solve. The areal shot was able to give my friend a close estimate of the property lines which then solved his problem. When I uploaded this, I assumed it would get 10-100 views, never 200,000. As I extremely appreciate all the views and support I thought it was important to note that this is a free option that will get you within a foot or two of the exact property lines. However, if you're buying or selling a home and you'd like them to be EXACT always higher a LAND SURVEYOR. Smiles from Here.😊
1st response: talk to your neighbor. 2nd response: find a land surveyor to define your property line. 3rd and worse response: check your municipalities tax based gis system.
I'm not even sure how this popped up for me to look at. I'm a retired title examiner, and I stand firmly with the surveyors who have responded. Get a survey! Property boundaries are probably the most misunderstood aspect of land ownership, and bring along some high emotions when contested.
All great notes, thanks for the comment, orignally when making this video I was making it for a close personal friend of mine who wanted to know if his neighbors dog was going #2 in his yard. So if you want the exact property lines always higher and pay a land surveyor to get them exact. This video was meant to be an aid for those with a minor dispute that they didn't want to spend money to solve. The areal shot was able to give my friend a close estimate of the property lines which then solved his problem. When I uploaded this, I assumed it would get 10-100 views, never 200,000. (which is why the website only works in Missouri, because I never assumed this would get farther than Missouri.) However, it undoubtuly has, so I'm working on an editing together an updated video when I find/locate/digup the exact property lines. Please listen to "Stir Young" if you're buying or selling your house and ALWAYS HIGHER A LAND SURVEYOR. This video is simply to help aid minor disputes like: "where to put the basketball hoop? Is the neighbors dog going #2 in my yard? Is my neighbor cutting part of my grass, etc. Little things in between neighbors that can be solved with being within a foot or two of exact. I appicate the comment and apologize that I didn't spend more time on the video and do it right originally.
Licensed surveyor in CA here - this video reminds me of a call I received years ago from a client I performed a title insurance survey for. About a year had passed since the survey and he was now applying for a use permit. He was very, very angry - telling me my survey was wrong. Apparently the City's planner was telling him he couldn't get the use permit because his building was over the property line, and was further telling him that our survey was not correct. The planner was using the City's GIS to make that determination. I wrote an email to the City Surveyor and asked him to have a conversation with the planner about the accuracy of the City's GIS and the problem was quickly resolved. Terrible advice in this video.... never, never, never rely on a local jurisdiction's GIS to determine the property lines' locations.
I have property in the mountains and I just looked. The home across the street from my property shows it to be on the public land, lol. It's 10 feet back from the road so I would think the online map is incorrect.
Most people are not aware of what information is available FOR FREE, not even the real estate agents. When we were looking for a house I was able to dig up more than plenty data with exact measurements plus all the info on the HOA that the real estate agent was too lazy to ask. That took sone time to verify and cross-check (like a couple of hours) but it was worth it! I was able to learn more about any given house and property lines than the seller or anybody else. It's amaizing.
yes! I agree! Looked up mine a while ago and it showed my property 10 feet into my neighbors property and 10 feet into the public road out front. lol. So needless to say I had a land survey done. lol.
@@johnretired8213 possible? Yes. Is it common? Not all. On top of using the surveying transit, they now have GPS to correlate the location of the pins/corners
Some years ago,I bought a couple of rural acres to put an antique house that I'd bought to be moved. There was a drainage ditch running about 20' inside the property with a fence on the outside. I found the iron pins,as I'd been trained as a construction surveyor and have an old K&E transit. I set about tearing the disheveled fence down,much to the shagrin of the Neighbor who'd built it. After a call from the Sheriff,and showing him the monuments marking the property lines,he told the Neighbor that he's have to take me to Court and advised him to have a survey done. His Surveyor did a few calculations and told him that the markers were right and the ditch was not the boundary.
Indeed, in the whole video he barely touched on property lines and then he referred to them as approximate. Those aerial photos are NOT properly lines at all and many times they are not even close to approximate. The photo of my house shows the line running through the middle of my shed when it is actually six feet beyond it. The other three are several feet off as well. Those lines are lot indicators, NOT PROPERTY LINES. Mark, you are inviting a lawsuit. Get a survey, prevent the lawsuit.
You're right, and thats on me, I hired a 24 year old recent college grad that was helping me with my channel 6 months ago, when this was ogrianlly uploaded. We've recently parted ways but he put that title in for me. Which I'm happy and sad about. Happy because I've made 60 videos and spent 100's of hours recording and editing and my average video gets 100 views haha, but I truly believe without that title this video would of reached no where near 200,000 views. However, I'm sad because this video provides users with a "rough estimate" of their property lines, not exact. I'm sorry, it won't happen again.
Licensed land surveyor here. While every state has boundary laws that differ in many aspects: land laws are very similar throughout the USA. The various county sites the agent shows in this clip are indeed very helpful for a REA: and can help the potential buyer a bit as well at least at first; but not a single one of them are accurate for actual lot lines or boundaries. The distances shown on these county GIS maps are scaled estimates or just taken from the recorded plat (if there is one). I have seen some off by so much as to be ridiculous. Bottom line is that by purchasing a home you are (most likely) about to commit to the single biggest investment for your family that you will ever make in your entire lifetime. Protect yourself. Protect your family. Protect your investment. Before you sign! But after you decide this is most likely the home for you: Hire a licensed home inspector FIRST! If you have no idea who to use but have your own REA (not the listing agent!) ask for his/her list of home inspectors. If they say they don’t know of any or tell you not to get an inspection then you should fire them immediately! Call a few inspectors to get a decent idea of which one you want to hire. And if the home inspector passes the home with flying colors; then hire a licensed land surveyor. Don’t hire the cheapest one just to save a few dollars. But the most expensive one is likely not a good choice either. The little bit of money you spend on just those two professionals could save you huge numbers or great heartaches later. DO NOT EVER allow anyone (including the title company) to convince you that it’s all good and talk you into waving the survey or home inspector!
I would doubt a title company would discourage a buyer from ordering their own survey. If there is any question, the title company will require a survey.
I like the way you explained everything in detail and show us how to get there on the website you’re doing an awesome job thank you for all of this advice I appreciate you.
Thanks Jimmy, in a slander of neagtive comments you don't know how much it means to hear just 1 that's positive, I truly appicate you as well. Smiles from here.😊
Having owned more than one property over the years with my share of squabbles with neighbors over where the line is, I began including a survey as part of the sales agreement with the seller. If there is any matter of difference then it can be taken up with the seller prior to completing the sale. This is only sane. I had a neighbor who insisted he knew where the property line was and further insisted he was going to put up a fence without getting a survey. We went back and forth for some time before he decided to abandon the fence idea rather than do the survey. It's always a good idea to know what you are buying before you pay. Many negative issues can be avoided down the road.
I didn't get no survey done because i put the new wood fence in front of the old chain link fence and did have a little bitching from the other neighbor but they were seeing that the fence was slanted going down hill so i tried telling the person look at were the original old chain fence is at and then look at were the new fence is at so the person quit talking after i showed them those old original pine posts The new wood fencing is in line with the old original chain link fence and in front of it on my side I told them if you want you guys can get a surveyor to come out and they'll show you I'm on my line. Now from the end portion of that wood fence on the slant I'll probably add onto it later on and build it on down right to the left corner post of the neighbor's wooden pole fence I've already talked with those neighbors and they'd like to see one up. Just fence building takes time and money to make it
Well in my previous house my neighbor was the former mayor of the town. He was such a jackass that he tended to claim some of my land and stated that "surveys ain't worth the paper they're printed on". Once I tried to move a pile of bricks near the back of my lot, and he quickly came over yelling "don't move mah bricks!" I've had lots of similar problems with various neighbors, and currently receive vast amounts of runoff water from both of my neighbors. One even took the liberty of hiring guys to fill in the very useful water ditch between lots which used to send large rains into the culvert. Now... all that water fills up my whole front and side yard, leaving his lot high and dry! The neighbor who did that sold his house after breaking town ordinances by constructing a two storey garage just 1 foot from my property line! I had tried to halt that at town hall, but they just said the town manager is on vacation. When he returned I learned that he had given that homeowner permission to skirt around the 10 foot setback ordinance. And now that town manager is facing many years in prison for a huge town embezzlement scandal. Nothing I can do about any of these things. I hope no one suggests moving because that cannot happben. I have always made every effort to never abuse or encroach upon a neighbor, and sometimes I have spent thousands of dollars to solve lot line problems, knowing they would never spend a dime to fix anything. Yet none of these neighbors think or realize that they have acted so selfishly, and none think they have abused their neighbor (me).
I live in a small seaside village in the great south land. It was surveyed and the lots registered in 1912. Everyone was happy about their property boundaries (within reason). About eight years ago a great fuss erupted as it was discovered that, while the boundaries within the village were in order, it turned out that the whole village was about 200 mm north of where folk thought it was. It took three teams of surveyors nearly 12 months to regularise the situation. The cause, it seems was a misplaced survey mark, represented by a steel spike driven into a very old, large tree stump. It really only became an issue when you tried to join up our village with nearby locations. No one lost it except the people close to the edge of the village who were 200 mm closer to the next village than they thought. No real damage done………the original surveyor is long dead!!! Stavros, friend of Pete Agoras and Euclid.
As an illinois attorney, I would not represent a buyer without a flagged corner survey. Some clients find that the neighbors fence are encroaching on the buyers property. We have neighbor move the fence and my client has more property than the real estate agent and sellers thought.
I'm in Illinois. What about a buyer, who bought the property next door. I've lived here 30 years, and the property next door has changed hands twice, and neither buyer got THEIR own survey. There are markers at two corners that were there when I bought THIS property. I put a fence along that side when the previous owners lived there. Now this new owner didn't say anything until AFTER he closed on the property and moved in, and he is a total asshole about the line. Wasn't it HIS responsibility to get a survey? He has been threatening to me, a senior citizen.
@@geezermann7865 in North Carolina we have what is considered " Immanent Domain " After a number of years of having structures, fence or maintenance over property lines with no pursuit from the other property owners, a court case would go in favor of you owning that part of their property. Something to look into in your area.
@@geezermann7865you shouldn't have built your fence across the property line on your neighbor's side, build it on the property line or inside of your own property.
Always get a survey done when purchasing built into the mortgage. I know here for any building permit you must present one that has been done in the last 3 years or no permit.
I've always considered property lines overlaid on an aerial photograph to be only approximate, since there is usually some distortion caused by the angle of the camera.
Some things I have come across as a owner and as a contractor: the fence is not not not the property line: one property I owned had a existing fence with 30 feet of access that actually belonged to the neighbor to the west and he had 30 feet of dirt belonging to his neighbor to his west, my current house lot is supposed to be 1.5 acres but a survey I just paid for reveals it is closer to one acre with a odd shape and rearward slope. Also a lot map like is shown is not exact. For instance the lines of my property show as if the neighbor owns part of my front yard and driveway. The survey shows he owns a small triangular piece of grass I mow not the driveway this is on a curve and buts up to County highway easement. In a case like my current lot I needed to find the lines to fence it for animals. I communicated my intentions to the neighbors very politely. I showed the the survey and stakes. Made it clear the fence keeps my animals in its not for keeping people out (for instance squirrel hunters). Kids mainly. I am blessed with fantastic neighbors. I did my part in friendly communication and research be for ever cutting anything or driving a post. Believe me you do not want hostility if it can be avoided. Some times it comes to you but then it's best to distance yourself in my experience. Have a great day!
My fence is the line so is the old chain link and square fencing behind the new wood fence is the property line My neighbors fencing is they're property line i can see where each neighboring line is at just from they're fencing then if they didn't have no fences up I wouldn't see they're lines it all and would need a surveyor to come out
@@Mike-su8si actually the fence is never the line. There is either a steel pin driven into the ground with a yellow cap or rebar or other such marker. Pins can be under concrete sidewalks. You can own half the street out front or if a corner lot on the side. It is very common to install a fence 6 inches on your side of the pins. Dollars to doughnuts you could find the rear pin measure forward and you could be short if compared to the plot map as the front pin is under a sidewalk or the street center. Pins can be inches under ground or pulled by some one. You accept that your fence is the property line and that is fine in most cases. But until you find those pins or have a survey you don't know for a fact. Let's say you want to build a shop on your property in town, I did. The city demanded a drawing, the pins located and marked. Then the distance from the line needed to be more than 3 feet for the new building. We paid to have a drawing completed for submission with plans. Located the pins and snapped a string line between. Then the inspector got out the tape measure and checked my foundation form compared to the exact property line. Most times it's not a problem. Remember my example of the neighbor having 30ft of the other people's property? They had a shed built on it.
In the example of my new property it's shape is odd. It's on a curve. The back falls off down hill. It's full of trees back there. Poison oak. Copperheads, cotton mouths, ticks, chiggers. There is a old barb wire fence back there. I thought that was mine. Now let's say I had not had a survey. I went pounding in posts. Cut down trees. Ran goats on that hillside no big deal right? Wrong. I paid 1700.00 to have a survey. That fence had nothing to do with my property at all. In fact all new pins had to be installed based on my property description and compared wth the neighbors as well. Now let's say because of the county assessors map that my neighbor decided to be a jerk and fence me out of my driveway? Assumed he owned it? He told me he owned my driveway for a fact. But he was wrong and the survey showed that for a fact. I also made sure part of my home is not on his land. I needed to be sure. Like I said the shape is odd. But again the fence is not not not the legal marker the pins are.
@@MAKAROVOWNER I gone by the metal pole with the yellow cap it's the neighbor's but still shows they're line And then our old fence is the line between our yard and the neighbor's yard on down whoever put the poles in did go a little over in the neighbor's yard so i fixed that small problem and built the new section on my side more so now if i ad to it further down the wood fence will be right next to the metal pole with the yellow cap
@@MAKAROVOWNER I believe whoever put the other wood post in on the far right corner got them to close to the road it's not 8 feet from the road so on that section if i ever put up a fence i have to call the gas people first to mark the gas lines then do my measurements after that's done
Always, always hire a surveyor, or two or three, and have them survey the property and mark and certify the property lines before you sign any contract to buy property.
And what about a buyer, who bought the property next door. I've lived here 30 years, and the property next door has changed hands twice, and neither buyer got THEIR own survey. There are markers at two corners that were there when I bought THIS property. I put a fence along that side when the previous owners lived there. Now this new owner didn't say anything until AFTER he closed on the property and moved in, and he is a total asshole about the line. Wasn't it HIS responsibility to get a survey?
@@geezermann7865 Wasn't it YOUR responsibility to get a survey when you bought YOUR property? If you had then you would have no problem with the fence. If you did then the new guy can kick rocks.
thanks for the comment, orignally when making this video I was making it for a close personal friend of mine who wanted to know if his neighbors dog was going #2 in his yard. So if you are buying/selling land/property always higher and pay a land surveyor to get them exact. This video was meant to be an aid for those with a minor dispute that they didn't want to spend money to solve. The areal shot was able to give my friend a close estimate of the property lines which then solved his problem. When I uploaded this, I assumed it would get 10-100 views, never 200,000. (which is why the website only works in Missouri, because I never assumed this would get farther than Missouri.) However, it undoubtuly has, so I'm working on an editing together an updated video when I find/locate/digup the exact property lines. Please listen to "Old Time Farm Boy" if you're buying or selling your house and ALWAYS HIGHER A LAND SURVEYOR. This video is simply to help aid minor disputes like: "where to put the basketball hoop? Is the neighbors dog going #2 in my yard? Is my neighbor cutting part of my grass, etc. Little things in between neighbors that can be solved with being within a foot or two of exact. I appicate the comment and apologize that I didn't spend more time on the video and do it right originally.
@Geezermann I'm in the same boat. We bought in 2018 and the property was surveyed, or so we thought, in 2017. Turns out they never actually came out, they just went off old books, so the markers we relied on weren't accurate. They matched GIS map with county, so we didn't think anything of it. Had a gentleman's agreement on lines with previous owner next door, but he sold last year. We had our house built in 2020. Purchaser just had a survey done a few months ago (not at time of purchase, which showed something else on listing photos) to find that most my house is on their property. We've hired an attorney because we have no clue what to do or who's to take the fall.
Great note/idea, I'm currrently editing together a video where I use the aerial to give me rough estimate then, use a metar detector to locate the exact property lines.
I have an updated version of this video now live using a metal detector: th-cam.com/video/Ez9M0zZdWtY/w-d-xo.html (If you have a spare minute please let me know your thoughts)
Using the cellphone's GPS to locate property lines and corners seems interesting. Is there any way to adjust for the error that is associated with the GPS? It seems to be off by 50-100 feet whenever I locate a 'known' location.
We bought a house on 1/2 acre in Arizona about 4 years ago. I have had some nagging concerns, namely this - doing some cursory investigation it looks like my neighbor put his place on my land instead of his in about 2008. I was measuring for a wireless fen e and numbers do not match. Even the utility company has asked a couple of times recently about the discrepancy. Title insurance showed nothing, but I hesitate to contact them because the policy says for them to pursue the matter we must sign the property over to them. I could find nothing about the property coming back to me. Even going to the assessors site shows this issue. Is there any way for me to get possession of my property? He has no documents because I have asked for them. He had a parcel cut from his mother's parcel, but he is living on mine instead. He is also creeping into possession of another neighbors property. The size he has taken from my parcel is at least 1/4th to 1/3 of my half acre. I don't know where to start or what I can do. Any suggestions?
Thanks for the critiques, I've made an updated version of this video, and would love to hear what you and others that know about surveying have to say. th-cam.com/video/Ez9M0zZdWtY/w-d-xo.html
A big omission is when a house or addition might actually cross the property line. Especially with the postage stamp lots you show, it could be quite easy for assumptions of where the property line is to be wrong. I've known people who bought new homes only to later find out that the builder mis-located the foundation and the house was partly on someone else's property. This, of course brings potential legal nightmares with a neighbor demanding $500k for a 50 square foot parcel. The other thing, which I was hoping you'd touch on is how to find markings. Again, your lots shown would be quite easy with only 4 corners. I have New England property that has a couple concrete corner markers but the lot shape is very non-standard. Drill marks in boulders that form stone walls are the most common marker on my property. A stone wall corner is another. It would be helpful to know other potential markers that we could look for. And yes, I get that a survey will be more accurate.
All great notes Jack, thanks for the comment, Orignally when making this video I was making it for a close personal friend of mine who wanted to know if his neighbors dog was going #2 in his yard. So if you want the exact property lines always higher and pay a land surveyor to get them exact. This video was meant to be an aid for those with a minor dispute that they didn't want to spend money to solve. The areal shot was able to give my friend a close estimate of the property lines which then solved his problem. When I uploaded this, I assumed it would get 10-100 views, never 200,000. (which is why the website only works in Missouri, because I never assumed this would get farther than Missouri.) However, it undoubtuly has, so I'm working on an editing together an updated video when I find/locate/digup the exact property lines. In the new video I do just as you suggest above and touch on how to locate the origional markings, I was a carpenter before starting real estate 25 years ago. I appicate the comment and apologize that I didn't spend more time on the video and do it right originally.
It is important to remember that, the further north you get, the less accurate aerial resources are. The overlay of the map data gets progressively less accurate. The overlays can be as far as fifteen feet off.
@@MLFranklin You are trying to lay a rectangular grid system, over the top of sphere. It is very hard to get it overlayed on the sphere so it makes sense. I have some facilities where I know that the fences are on the property lines, and overlaying the Counties property records over the the aerial view in Google Earth shows the property lines about 40-feet off.
I take exception to the comment that things are worse as you go farther north. If they are in your area it is because the mapping was poorly done. These government websites are very useful tools but we must understand the the data involved. Each layer is compiled from a different source and each source has a different level of accuracy. In general the aerial photography is the most accurate because it is compiled using specific proven scientific methods which yield a specific designed accuracy sometimes as good as one half foot. The property lines are generally compiled from hand drafted maps at widely varying scales. In my county some converted property maps were at a 1” to 300’ scale. A 1/32” drafting error would equal nearly 10’ on the ground.
@@jeffmallison7876 It isn’t a problem of the accuracy of the survey. The problem lies in the conversion of a rectilinear grid system, which general property surveys are done with, to a spherical coordinate system . And the ability to overlay the two systems. If you are down near the equator, point north, go for a mile, turn 90-degrees right and go east for a mile, then turn 90-degrees right again and go south a mile, the turn 90-degrees right again, and go west for a mile, you are very close to where you started. If you try the same routine at the North Pole, and go south for a mile, turn 90 right, and go west for a mile, then turn 90 right again, and go north a mile. You end up back at the North Pole. The further north, or south, you are the worse it gets. And property lines have been calculated using coordinate geometry since at least 1785, so, 237-years. And I think they were done using coordinate geometry before that. They are not done graphically.
This is useful, but the exact property lines will require a survey to determine. I know from experience that what the county has on record can be significantly off from the actual property lines. Having flipped 600+ houses in the last 18 years I've had a couple property line disputes. The most recent one had a survey finding that the lot was off by several feet in the front and the back. The survey was correct, and the county records were adjusted. It was not in our favor but had negligible impact, if that. The property boundary on 1 side was a 30-foot marshy area between the property line and navigable water.
Well Mr flipper, a couple of disputes out of 600+ house flippins is a couple shy of being a qualified source for property line location information. Thanks for the expert opinion, but everyone here knows that government offices screw up everything they touch. By the way that's quite impressive flippin almost a house per week. You must be rolling in real estate monies
The plat map overlay on the aerial is not definitive. That is to say, only approximate. To use it for, say a fence location, can get you into trouble. For general use, probably OK. This hits home in my present location. Had a tree that the aerial said as on neighbor’s land. For 5 years, I ignored tending to the tree. Neighbor had a professional survey done for his purposes and we found out the tree was 6-10 feet on my side. We discussed and found that both of us were waiting for the other to tend to “his” yard and property (tree). We had a good laugh and I now take care of my property up to his survey markers. What this County overlay is really for is to discover gross changes to property for the purposes of taxation-not really accurate enough to usually settle disputes. What the video showed was exactly that, e.g. an added rear deck, or a reroof, or a location far removed from a flood prone area.
The GIS missed my sons line adjoining the next door neighbor by 70 feet! Neighbor looked up GIS and tried to claim my Sons driveway. The true survey actually gained land for my son.Hire a surveyor-always!
When my current landlord purchased my neighbor's house, and my house, from the former landlord...... ......It was discovered that the "property line" that is supposed to separate the two properties... actually runs through my neighbor's house!! There's only a six foot distance between our houses. And the property line is like two or three feet into the other house!! (Both of these houses were built in the 1950s.)
I was hoping you would show a method to find property lines without hiring a surveyor. I took a gps course one time from FEMA, we were able to find locations right down to a few centimeters with consumer grade gps equipment. Does this work? Jim
As a broker at closing lender has a site survey completed. No one looks at it but I do every time. One home was built over a natural gas pipeline. We stopped the closing after explaining to my buyer to assure the pipeline was inactive. It was. Surveys show utility lines etc. Note on title insurance. If you get a loan the lender requires title insurance that the buyer pays. Very important to note the following. This insures the lender of no title problems but does not cover the buyer unless you pay more for a buyer policy. Which I require or my client can go with another realtor. One client of mine didn’t want to but finally agreed. Four months later I checked in with him. The prior owner had remarried when he sold the home but his prior wife claimed an interest after he sold it. Apparently no one knew but she did have an interest though not in title. So she came after my buyer. He called the title insurance company and they said no just had lender insurance which 95% of people only have. So he had just given an attorney 5k with a final tag of 20k to resolve his title issue. I asked him to take hud one closing statement and look at the title insurance charge. There was one for lender and an additional charge for the buyer. He had paid a one time fee of 300.00 to cover him for his lifetime. He called the attorney back cancelled him. Picked up his check and called the title company back. He paid 0. This insurance covers him even after he sells the house. No one can come back on you for title problems ever. A small price to pay. Now you know.
I looked into this, whenever I made the video originally it was for a personal friend in Missouri and I never thought it would get more than 10 views hahah.😂 However, I've made an updated version of this video to help others that aren't just in Missouri. th-cam.com/video/Ez9M0zZdWtY/w-d-xo.html
I've been trying to get a surveyor for 2 years. They either don't call back or say they will and never do. Why is it so hard to get a surveyor? I don't want to pay for an app that I will only use once and isn't legally binding.
Im my state property line are marked with steel stakes put into ground an if there’s curbs an gutters many street curb have large nails installed for each front property line
The linbes are distorted from taking the pictures from above . I know mine are . I got my 3 lots surveyed and it was included in the purchase of the property 3 lots 1 acre each owner wanted 9 thousand a lot and I got hi down to 5 thouysand a lot since I was paying cash . Same with my 2440 sq ft modular house that I designedand had built by norris homes in Tenn. and shipped to Va set up included in the purchase on my basement cash speaks
I looked into this, whenever I made the video originally it was for a personal friend in Missouri and I never thought it would get more than 10 views hahah.😂 However, I've made an updated version of this video to help others that aren't just in Missouri. th-cam.com/video/Ez9M0zZdWtY/w-d-xo.html
Nice video…as recent STL weather events have shown us, a better response about insurance and flood plains is although flood insurance is not required please check with your insurance agent regarding your own coverages ( or lack of..)
Many locales require subscription for some of the features he accessed. Additionally, the GIS info can be wrong as it is often based on assumptions that can prove inaccurate when surveyed on site. Always consult a land surveyor before buying and try to get the seller to pay for it as the seller is making representations as to what is being offered.
We've been looking for land and property in Missouri and at first we asked the Realtor, who is supposed to be a professional, where the property lines were. We realized our realtor wasn't up on some things and even took 5 days to get back to us so we didn't even trust whatever she found as property lines...I'm hoping to get this to work for me in Texas County Missouri...no luck yet.
I looked into this, whenever I made the video originally it was for a personal friend in Missouri and I never thought it would get more than 10 views hahah.😂 However, I've made an updated version of this video to help others that couldn't get the sites to work this new video should be much more helpful... Hopefully! th-cam.com/video/Ez9M0zZdWtY/w-d-xo.html
Another Licensed Land surveyor here cringing at the title of this video. Agency GIS websites are handy but are not intended for boundary location. Realtors telling people where property lines are is considered unlicensed practice in every state I’m licensed in.
The GIS lines ARE NOT THE PROPERTY LINES! They just show you or a surveyor where to start looking for the buried iron corner pins. Somebody has to get out there with a metal detector and a shovel to find the actual corner pins. Even if you do uncover all those pins, you may not be able to see from one to the next. Then you need a surveyor to sight from visible pins to mark your property line with stakes. I like to go out with foot long rebar pieces to pound into the ground at those stakes, since kids and a-hole neighbors like to pull up stakes. Never assume an old fence is on the line, because people often build a fence a bit back from the line so it is all on their property.
I looked into this, and I've made an undated version of the video, hopefully this one is more acceptable, would love to know your critiques th-cam.com/video/Ez9M0zZdWtY/w-d-xo.html I took your advice and actually used a metal detector and dug up the corner pins.
Hey, when we bought this box house, the past owners been surveys house more than 5 times...Anyway our neighbor been digging up those post of lines of our property ...
Either the 1995 photo was offset or they moved the houses afterwards. City maps give you an idea of where things are, but they are no substitute for a survey.
Hi Jenna. Great question. So it's market dependent. In St. Louis most of our road easements are 50' wide. And the pavement is 28' wide. So there is an 11' from the curb dedication strip on each side. So, our front property corners are often 11' from the curb.
I an a title examiner and abstractor with over 40 years of experience. Neve depend on the county GIS site. Our tax maps in Alabama state hat these maps are not to be used for conveyance purposes for good reasons. Always get a survey unless the property is subdivided and has a map recorded with the location of the lot lines. Even then you can't be sure of the location of the improvements without a survey.
These property lines are vastly wrong in several cities in my area in Virginia. The aerial overlay that the cities do seem to be offset by several 10's of feet. For example property lines runni ng through houses and driveways.
I bought a cornfield had 13 Neighbors. Seven of them were encroaching I found out. I hired two lawyers. I've had to work hard but I have all the fences off my property. And sheds.
I had a surveyor tell me they needed $1700 for my $35,000 property. I decided to spend the money on the mortgage instead and everything worked out fine. They said they recently did the property and it was a difficult job. Seems like they would only have to look it up on their computer and were used to people just rolling with the punches.
Bought a house outright no financing. Some question about back boundary. Older neighbours tell us previous owner bought the back field and my understanding is a merge occurred. Our local municipal has thrown a sneaky wrongful intent to seize at us. Sent those notices to an old address not the house we just bought. We intercepted and paid their crazy penalties for $84. shortfall in property taxes plus all their creative accounting of fines, interest and added legal debt fees. Now we have a letter saying “we can’t sell” until we define that back boundary and they offer to pay for that process. But we purchased with this unknown issue. The lawyer with held info and is married to the ward counsellor!! They have plans for a phase 1 and Phase 2 dense housing projects. How do older retired folks get legal representation to defend themselves? Municipal could just redone entire area and out everyone!
Those property lines are definitely only approximate. Note that the lines moved when you went to the 1995 map. I recently bought a property in Idaho and the property lines on the map are way off. This is been verified by locating the survey pins on the corners of the property. Not everybody has that luxury of having survey pins available.
I know where our lines are at from talking with the last land owner and you can see it he showed me for if i ever finish up on extending my fence in the backyard a portion of the back is shared i still know right where to put the post at whenever I have post markers on each corner of the yard
This very important. About 15 years ago aman bought the house next door to my mother's home and claimed that my mother's fence was 5ft. over the property line on his property, well the fence had been there since 1959 when my mother's uncle built the home, we have pictures from the early 1960's with the fence in place, but the guy took the fence down and put another one 5ft. over the line. My parents were afraid of the man, and didn't want to resist so he got away with it, but they have passed and I'm thinking of going to court.
Contact a local small firm surveyor. They can do an on the ground survey for a lot less that the larger firms. It's the only way to legally locate the fence.
Hiring a surveyor is in the description for this video. This was never intended to be a survey replacement. It's an approximation people can use during the 24-hours they have to evaluate a house pre-contract. Then post-contract we have a 25-day contingency within which we can order an actual Survey from a licensed professional.
As a retired builder ,the only thing that will hold up in court is a full survey done by a licensed surveyor. Spend the money it will be the best money you will spend
Another way is go to the county and get what we call in my city but might be different somewhere else is a plot map or zoning map. These maps will have the dimensions of the lots and roads and some survey points on them. With a proper map and a real long measurement tap and they can go 200ft or more , with this information you can do a simple survey, I’ve done it myself. Then if you find irregularities then contact a civil engineer- surveyor to do a professional survey.
my property lines are totally wrong on the WA state Geodata site. My house literally splits the property line, and the rest of my property is through my neighbors yard. I called the county, and they said "don't worry about it, the property lines are occasionally wrong on the geodata site." Shrug.
You can't use GIS for exact property lines. Its ok for getting a general feel, but it is not accurate unless surveyed. GIS data is not often going to be survey grade.
Hi can you determine a property boarder for 63752 Gemini road Joshua tree California? According to a San Bernardino county viewer map it shows that Gemini road is on this property but it is being used by the public access to get to other properties. Does the assessor have a record of whether Gemini road is a private road or not? SERIOUSLY STOP CORRUPTION OR IT WILL KILL YOU 🇺🇸
I looked into this, whenever I made the video originally it was for a personal friend in Missouri and I never thought it would get more than 10 views hahah.😂 However, I've made an updated version of this video to help others that had trouble with the website or aren't in Missouri. th-cam.com/video/Ez9M0zZdWtY/w-d-xo.html
The state survey maps on government websites is not always correct.there was an easement for utilities between my mothers home and the neighbors. Over 40 yrs it was correct. Then a new person got in there and randomly picked fence lines as boundaries. There was an open space between our fences. 7 feet by 80ft behind the fence was ours. 4ft by 100 ft of the open space was the neighbors. The person drawing the lines changed the property line to our fence line giving that 7 ft by 80 ft to the neighbors. Fortunately we still had the original papers on the house. This was done to all properties in our neighborhood. No idea who did this but that much space seriously affected the selling price of the house. Get a surveyor
Check with your city or jurisdiction code for requirements when having a fence installed. There may be a set distance that the fence has to be back from the actual property line. That doesn't mean your property is at the fence line. This allows for maintenance of the fence. It may also require that you mow on that side of the fence if necessary. Always good to have the information in printed form for any future questions or disputes so make sure to get official documentation from the governing authority.
That is preliminary good for your advertisement but for a matter of facts, actual precise property boundary need a registered land surveyor other than gamboling.
County maps are usually NOT "orthographically correct" Think of it like wrapping a car. Flat Photo, round earth......... Most tax maps are +/- 5-10 feet. That is why you have to check a little box explaining how you basically can't use the online maps for any planning purposes etc.
Realtors know nothing . Except their commission . If you want to know the property lines , and history of a property .you must do a long title search going back to the very first survey . Long title search . Realtors are nothing more than used car salesman . Most only do short title search for quick sales .
Get a survey. Get a survey. Get a survey. I'd never recommend a client rely on the municipal jurisdiction's GIS in lieu of a proper land survey. Even if by chance the GIS and the true (surveyed) corners of the property happen to agree, a survey will reveal details that looking online at a GIS presentation won't.
My property marker was 7 feet away from the GIS map. I have a small backyard and almost lost 350 square feet when using this to do a fence. Luckily I bought a metal detector to look for the survey pins!
@@MarkTheRealtor indeed! A 70 dollar harbor freight metal detector and a few hours of digging. Cleaned up about 30 rusty screws and bolts. Thank you for your videos and the pinned comment
I use mine all the time everything I need to gain info before putting in a bid it shows property lines and I can see actually who owns it and year of purchase date and the deed will state all the same info the survey guys will use and you can use it too, and any easements if any apply. All counties in every state will have this info online but you just have to look in the right place.
![일상 속 기분 좋음 [Proto disco meme]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/DwmEIaZ7XGQ/mqdefault.jpg)
UPDATED Version of this Video: th-cam.com/video/Ez9M0zZdWtY/w-d-xo.html
Disclaimer: Originally when making this video I was making it for a close personal friend of mine who wanted to know if his neighbor's dog was going #2 in his yard. So if you are buying/selling land/property ALWAYS higher and pay a land surveyor to get them exact. This video was meant to be an aid for those with a minor dispute that they didn't want to spend money to solve. The areal shot was able to give my friend a close estimate of the property lines which then solved his problem. When I uploaded this, I assumed it would get 10-100 views, never 200,000. As I extremely appreciate all the views and support I thought it was important to note that this is a free option that will get you within a foot or two of the exact property lines. However, if you're buying or selling a home and you'd like them to be EXACT always higher a LAND SURVEYOR. Smiles from Here.😊
Maybe you should pin this comment.
HIRE ,,,, >>HIRE>HIRE
1st response: talk to your neighbor.
2nd response: find a land surveyor to define your property line.
3rd and worse response: check your municipalities tax based gis system.
@@dixonshaun And, rely on that tax system to be accurate to a foot or two. Sorry Mark, you're completely high (er)
Great sticky
I'm not even sure how this popped up for me to look at. I'm a retired title examiner, and I stand firmly with the surveyors who have responded. Get a survey! Property boundaries are probably the most misunderstood aspect of land ownership, and bring along some high emotions when contested.
All great notes, thanks for the comment, orignally when making this video I was making it for a close personal friend of mine who wanted to know if his neighbors dog was going #2 in his yard. So if you want the exact property lines always higher and pay a land surveyor to get them exact. This video was meant to be an aid for those with a minor dispute that they didn't want to spend money to solve. The areal shot was able to give my friend a close estimate of the property lines which then solved his problem. When I uploaded this, I assumed it would get 10-100 views, never 200,000. (which is why the website only works in Missouri, because I never assumed this would get farther than Missouri.) However, it undoubtuly has, so I'm working on an editing together an updated video when I find/locate/digup the exact property lines. Please listen to "Stir Young" if you're buying or selling your house and ALWAYS HIGHER A LAND SURVEYOR. This video is simply to help aid minor disputes like: "where to put the basketball hoop? Is the neighbors dog going #2 in my yard? Is my neighbor cutting part of my grass, etc. Little things in between neighbors that can be solved with being within a foot or two of exact. I appicate the comment and apologize that I didn't spend more time on the video and do it right originally.
Is it true that most surveyors use inexact measurements for distance because of a method called 'pacing' [relying on footsteps]?
@@mts7274 :D
Licensed surveyor in CA here - this video reminds me of a call I received years ago from a client I performed a title insurance survey for. About a year had passed since the survey and he was now applying for a use permit. He was very, very angry - telling me my survey was wrong. Apparently the City's planner was telling him he couldn't get the use permit because his building was over the property line, and was further telling him that our survey was not correct. The planner was using the City's GIS to make that determination. I wrote an email to the City Surveyor and asked him to have a conversation with the planner about the accuracy of the City's GIS and the problem was quickly resolved. Terrible advice in this video.... never, never, never rely on a local jurisdiction's GIS to determine the property lines' locations.
I have property in the mountains and I just looked. The home across the street from my property shows it to be on the public land, lol. It's 10 feet back from the road so I would think the online map is incorrect.
Most people are not aware of what information is available FOR FREE, not even the real estate agents. When we were looking for a house I was able to dig up more than plenty data with exact measurements plus all the info on the HOA that the real estate agent was too lazy to ask. That took sone time to verify and cross-check (like a couple of hours) but it was worth it!
I was able to learn more about any given house and property lines than the seller or anybody else. It's amaizing.
yes! I agree! Looked up mine a while ago and it showed my property 10 feet into my neighbors property and 10 feet into the public road out front. lol. So needless to say I had a land survey done. lol.
It’s possible that licensed survivor can be wrong on survey?
@@johnretired8213 possible? Yes. Is it common? Not all. On top of using the surveying transit, they now have GPS to correlate the location of the pins/corners
Some years ago,I bought a couple of rural acres to put an antique house that I'd bought to be moved. There was a drainage ditch running about 20' inside the property with a fence on the outside. I found the iron pins,as I'd been trained as a construction surveyor and have an old K&E transit. I set about tearing the disheveled fence down,much to the shagrin of the Neighbor who'd built it. After a call from the Sheriff,and showing him the monuments marking the property lines,he told the Neighbor that he's have to take me to Court and advised him to have a survey done. His Surveyor did a few calculations and told him that the markers were right and the ditch was not the boundary.
Mark, Title said “Exact” property lines. Sorry, but you didn't show us how to find “exact” property lines.
Indeed, in the whole video he barely touched on property lines and then he referred to them as approximate. Those aerial photos are NOT properly lines at all and many times they are not even close to approximate. The photo of my house shows the line running through the middle of my shed when it is actually six feet beyond it. The other three are several feet off as well.
Those lines are lot indicators, NOT PROPERTY LINES.
Mark, you are inviting a lawsuit.
Get a survey, prevent the lawsuit.
You're right, and thats on me, I hired a 24 year old recent college grad that was helping me with my channel 6 months ago, when this was ogrianlly uploaded. We've recently parted ways but he put that title in for me. Which I'm happy and sad about. Happy because I've made 60 videos and spent 100's of hours recording and editing and my average video gets 100 views haha, but I truly believe without that title this video would of reached no where near 200,000 views. However, I'm sad because this video provides users with a "rough estimate" of their property lines, not exact. I'm sorry, it won't happen again.
Licensed land surveyor here. While every state has boundary laws that differ in many aspects: land laws are very similar throughout the USA.
The various county sites the agent shows in this clip are indeed very helpful for a REA: and can help the potential buyer a bit as well at least at first; but not a single one of them are accurate for actual lot lines or boundaries.
The distances shown on these county GIS maps are scaled estimates or just taken from the recorded plat (if there is one). I have seen some off by so much as to be ridiculous.
Bottom line is that by purchasing a home you are (most likely) about to commit to the single biggest investment for your family that you will ever make in your entire lifetime. Protect yourself. Protect your family. Protect your investment.
Before you sign! But after you decide this is most likely the home for you: Hire a licensed home inspector FIRST! If you have no idea who to use but have your own REA (not the listing agent!) ask for his/her list of home inspectors. If they say they don’t know of any or tell you not to get an inspection then you should fire them immediately!
Call a few inspectors to get a decent idea of which one you want to hire. And if the home inspector passes the home with flying colors; then hire a licensed land surveyor. Don’t hire the cheapest one just to save a few dollars. But the most expensive one is likely not a good choice either. The little bit of money you spend on just those two professionals could save you huge numbers or great heartaches later.
DO NOT EVER allow anyone (including the title company) to convince you that it’s all good and talk you into waving the survey or home inspector!
I would doubt a title company would discourage a buyer from ordering their own survey. If there is any question, the title company will require a survey.
I like the way you explained everything in detail and show us how to get there on the website you’re doing an awesome job thank you for all of this advice I appreciate you.
Thanks Jimmy, in a slander of neagtive comments you don't know how much it means to hear just 1 that's positive, I truly appicate you as well. Smiles from here.😊
Having owned more than one property over the years with my share of squabbles with neighbors over where the line is, I began including a survey as part of the sales agreement with the seller. If there is any matter of difference then it can be taken up with the seller prior to completing the sale. This is only sane. I had a neighbor who insisted he knew where the property line was and further insisted he was going to put up a fence without getting a survey. We went back and forth for some time before he decided to abandon the fence idea rather than do the survey. It's always a good idea to know what you are buying before you pay. Many negative issues can be avoided down the road.
I didn't get no survey done because i put the new wood fence in front of the old chain link fence and did have a little bitching from the other neighbor but they were seeing that the fence was slanted going down hill so i tried telling the person look at were the original old chain fence is at and then look at were the new fence is at so the person quit talking after i showed them those old original pine posts
The new wood fencing is in line with the old original chain link fence and in front of it on my side I told them if you want you guys can get a surveyor to come out and they'll show you I'm on my line.
Now from the end portion of that wood fence on the slant I'll probably add onto it later on and build it on down right to the left corner post of the neighbor's wooden pole fence I've already talked with those neighbors and they'd like to see one up. Just fence building takes time and money to make it
Well in my previous house my neighbor was the former mayor of the town. He was such a jackass that he tended to claim some of my land and stated that "surveys ain't worth the paper they're printed on". Once I tried to move a pile of bricks near the back of my lot, and he quickly came over yelling "don't move mah bricks!" I've had lots of similar problems with various neighbors, and currently receive vast amounts of runoff water from both of my neighbors. One even took the liberty of hiring guys to fill in the very useful water ditch between lots which used to send large rains into the culvert. Now... all that water fills up my whole front and side yard, leaving his lot high and dry! The neighbor who did that sold his house after breaking town ordinances by constructing a two storey garage just 1 foot from my property line! I had tried to halt that at town hall, but they just said the town manager is on vacation. When he returned I learned that he had given that homeowner permission to skirt around the 10 foot setback ordinance. And now that town manager is facing many years in prison for a huge town embezzlement scandal. Nothing I can do about any of these things. I hope no one suggests moving because that cannot happben. I have always made every effort to never abuse or encroach upon a neighbor, and sometimes I have spent thousands of dollars to solve lot line problems, knowing they would never spend a dime to fix anything. Yet none of these neighbors think or realize that they have acted so selfishly, and none think they have abused their neighbor (me).
i love you guys :) you have made my company MILLIONS!
pssss! always call a surveyor.
I live in a small seaside village in the great south land.
It was surveyed and the lots registered in 1912. Everyone was happy about their property boundaries (within reason). About eight years ago a great fuss erupted as it was discovered that, while the boundaries within the village were in order, it turned out that the whole village was about 200 mm north of where folk thought it was.
It took three teams of surveyors nearly 12 months to regularise the situation. The cause, it seems was a misplaced survey mark, represented by a steel spike driven into a very old, large tree stump. It really only became an issue when you tried to join up our village with nearby locations. No one lost it except the people close to the edge of the village who were 200 mm closer to the next village than they thought.
No real damage done………the original surveyor is long dead!!!
Stavros, friend of Pete Agoras and Euclid.
As an illinois attorney, I would not represent a buyer without a flagged corner survey. Some clients find that the neighbors fence are encroaching on the buyers property. We have neighbor move the fence and my client has more property than the real estate agent and sellers thought.
I'm in Illinois. What about a buyer, who bought the property next door. I've lived here 30 years, and the property next door has changed hands twice, and neither buyer got THEIR own survey. There are markers at two corners that were there when I bought THIS property. I put a fence along that side when the previous owners lived there. Now this new owner didn't say anything until AFTER he closed on the property and moved in, and he is a total asshole about the line. Wasn't it HIS responsibility to get a survey? He has been threatening to me, a senior citizen.
@@geezermann7865 his responsibility to prove his case. Hence, his responsibility to pay to have it surveyed.
@@geezermann7865 in North Carolina we have what is considered
" Immanent Domain "
After a number of years of having structures, fence or maintenance over property lines with no pursuit from the other property owners, a court case would go in favor of you owning that part of their property. Something to look into in your area.
@@geezermann7865you shouldn't have built your fence across the property line on your neighbor's side, build it on the property line or inside of your own property.
Always get a survey done when purchasing built into the mortgage. I know here for any building permit you must present one that has been done in the last 3 years or no permit.
I've always considered property lines overlaid on an aerial photograph to be only approximate, since there is usually some distortion caused by the angle of the camera.
Some things I have come across as a owner and as a contractor: the fence is not not not the property line: one property I owned had a existing fence with 30 feet of access that actually belonged to the neighbor to the west and he had 30 feet of dirt belonging to his neighbor to his west, my current house lot is supposed to be 1.5 acres but a survey I just paid for reveals it is closer to one acre with a odd shape and rearward slope. Also a lot map like is shown is not exact. For instance the lines of my property show as if the neighbor owns part of my front yard and driveway. The survey shows he owns a small triangular piece of grass I mow not the driveway this is on a curve and buts up to County highway easement. In a case like my current lot I needed to find the lines to fence it for animals. I communicated my intentions to the neighbors very politely. I showed the the survey and stakes. Made it clear the fence keeps my animals in its not for keeping people out (for instance squirrel hunters). Kids mainly. I am blessed with fantastic neighbors. I did my part in friendly communication and research be for ever cutting anything or driving a post. Believe me you do not want hostility if it can be avoided. Some times it comes to you but then it's best to distance yourself in my experience. Have a great day!
My fence is the line so is the old chain link and square fencing behind the new wood fence is the property line
My neighbors fencing is they're property line i can see where each neighboring line is at just from they're fencing then if they didn't have no fences up I wouldn't see they're lines it all and would need a surveyor to come out
@@Mike-su8si actually the fence is never the line. There is either a steel pin driven into the ground with a yellow cap or rebar or other such marker. Pins can be under concrete sidewalks. You can own half the street out front or if a corner lot on the side. It is very common to install a fence 6 inches on your side of the pins. Dollars to doughnuts you could find the rear pin measure forward and you could be short if compared to the plot map as the front pin is under a sidewalk or the street center. Pins can be inches under ground or pulled by some one. You accept that your fence is the property line and that is fine in most cases. But until you find those pins or have a survey you don't know for a fact. Let's say you want to build a shop on your property in town, I did. The city demanded a drawing, the pins located and marked. Then the distance from the line needed to be more than 3 feet for the new building. We paid to have a drawing completed for submission with plans. Located the pins and snapped a string line between. Then the inspector got out the tape measure and checked my foundation form compared to the exact property line. Most times it's not a problem. Remember my example of the neighbor having 30ft of the other people's property? They had a shed built on it.
In the example of my new property it's shape is odd. It's on a curve. The back falls off down hill. It's full of trees back there. Poison oak. Copperheads, cotton mouths, ticks, chiggers. There is a old barb wire fence back there. I thought that was mine. Now let's say I had not had a survey. I went pounding in posts. Cut down trees. Ran goats on that hillside no big deal right? Wrong. I paid 1700.00 to have a survey. That fence had nothing to do with my property at all. In fact all new pins had to be installed based on my property description and compared wth the neighbors as well. Now let's say because of the county assessors map that my neighbor decided to be a jerk and fence me out of my driveway? Assumed he owned it? He told me he owned my driveway for a fact. But he was wrong and the survey showed that for a fact. I also made sure part of my home is not on his land. I needed to be sure. Like I said the shape is odd. But again the fence is not not not the legal marker the pins are.
@@MAKAROVOWNER I gone by the metal pole with the yellow cap it's the neighbor's but still shows they're line
And then our old fence is the line between our yard and the neighbor's yard on down whoever put the poles in did go a little over in the neighbor's yard so i fixed that small problem and built the new section on my side more so now if i ad to it further down the wood fence will be right next to the metal pole with the yellow cap
@@MAKAROVOWNER I believe whoever put the other wood post in on the far right corner got them to close to the road it's not 8 feet from the road so on that section if i ever put up a fence i have to call the gas people first to mark the gas lines then do my measurements after that's done
Always, always hire a surveyor, or two or three, and have them survey the property and mark and certify the property lines before you sign any contract to buy property.
And what about a buyer, who bought the property next door. I've lived here 30 years, and the property next door has changed hands twice, and neither buyer got THEIR own survey. There are markers at two corners that were there when I bought THIS property. I put a fence along that side when the previous owners lived there. Now this new owner didn't say anything until AFTER he closed on the property and moved in, and he is a total asshole about the line. Wasn't it HIS responsibility to get a survey?
@@geezermann7865
Wasn't it YOUR responsibility to get a survey when you bought YOUR property? If you had then you would have no problem with the fence. If you did then the new guy can kick rocks.
thanks for the comment, orignally when making this video I was making it for a close personal friend of mine who wanted to know if his neighbors dog was going #2 in his yard. So if you are buying/selling land/property always higher and pay a land surveyor to get them exact. This video was meant to be an aid for those with a minor dispute that they didn't want to spend money to solve. The areal shot was able to give my friend a close estimate of the property lines which then solved his problem. When I uploaded this, I assumed it would get 10-100 views, never 200,000. (which is why the website only works in Missouri, because I never assumed this would get farther than Missouri.) However, it undoubtuly has, so I'm working on an editing together an updated video when I find/locate/digup the exact property lines. Please listen to "Old Time Farm Boy" if you're buying or selling your house and ALWAYS HIGHER A LAND SURVEYOR. This video is simply to help aid minor disputes like: "where to put the basketball hoop? Is the neighbors dog going #2 in my yard? Is my neighbor cutting part of my grass, etc. Little things in between neighbors that can be solved with being within a foot or two of exact. I appicate the comment and apologize that I didn't spend more time on the video and do it right originally.
@Geezermann I'm in the same boat. We bought in 2018 and the property was surveyed, or so we thought, in 2017. Turns out they never actually came out, they just went off old books, so the markers we relied on weren't accurate. They matched GIS map with county, so we didn't think anything of it. Had a gentleman's agreement on lines with previous owner next door, but he sold last year. We had our house built in 2020. Purchaser just had a survey done a few months ago (not at time of purchase, which showed something else on listing photos) to find that most my house is on their property. We've hired an attorney because we have no clue what to do or who's to take the fall.
Yeah we had a survey when we moved here. They also put some iron stakes. The realtor also showed us when we first were shown the house.
I use historical aerials for places to metal detect.
Very useful.
Great note/idea, I'm currrently editing together a video where I use the aerial to give me rough estimate then, use a metar detector to locate the exact property lines.
I have an updated version of this video now live using a metal detector: th-cam.com/video/Ez9M0zZdWtY/w-d-xo.html (If you have a spare minute please let me know your thoughts)
Using the cellphone's GPS to locate property lines and corners seems interesting.
Is there any way to adjust for the error that is associated with the GPS?
It seems to be off by 50-100 feet whenever I locate a 'known' location.
We bought a house on 1/2 acre in Arizona about 4 years ago. I have had some nagging concerns, namely this - doing some cursory investigation it looks like my neighbor put his place on my land instead of his in about 2008. I was measuring for a wireless fen e and numbers do not match. Even the utility company has asked a couple of times recently about the discrepancy. Title insurance showed nothing, but I hesitate to contact them because the policy says for them to pursue the matter we must sign the property over to them. I could find nothing about the property coming back to me. Even going to the assessors site shows this issue. Is there any way for me to get possession of my property? He has no documents because I have asked for them. He had a parcel cut from his mother's parcel, but he is living on mine instead. He is also creeping into possession of another neighbors property. The size he has taken from my parcel is at least 1/4th to 1/3 of my half acre. I don't know where to start or what I can do. Any suggestions?
20 year RE broker here. GIS is for informational and assessment purposes. A surveyor and legal description is needed to know exact property lines.
Thanks for the critiques, I've made an updated version of this video, and would love to hear what you and others that know about surveying have to say. th-cam.com/video/Ez9M0zZdWtY/w-d-xo.html
A big omission is when a house or addition might actually cross the property line. Especially with the postage stamp lots you show, it could be quite easy for assumptions of where the property line is to be wrong. I've known people who bought new homes only to later find out that the builder mis-located the foundation and the house was partly on someone else's property. This, of course brings potential legal nightmares with a neighbor demanding $500k for a 50 square foot parcel. The other thing, which I was hoping you'd touch on is how to find markings. Again, your lots shown would be quite easy with only 4 corners. I have New England property that has a couple concrete corner markers but the lot shape is very non-standard. Drill marks in boulders that form stone walls are the most common marker on my property. A stone wall corner is another. It would be helpful to know other potential markers that we could look for. And yes, I get that a survey will be more accurate.
All great notes Jack, thanks for the comment, Orignally when making this video I was making it for a close personal friend of mine who wanted to know if his neighbors dog was going #2 in his yard. So if you want the exact property lines always higher and pay a land surveyor to get them exact. This video was meant to be an aid for those with a minor dispute that they didn't want to spend money to solve. The areal shot was able to give my friend a close estimate of the property lines which then solved his problem. When I uploaded this, I assumed it would get 10-100 views, never 200,000. (which is why the website only works in Missouri, because I never assumed this would get farther than Missouri.) However, it undoubtuly has, so I'm working on an editing together an updated video when I find/locate/digup the exact property lines. In the new video I do just as you suggest above and touch on how to locate the origional markings, I was a carpenter before starting real estate 25 years ago. I appicate the comment and apologize that I didn't spend more time on the video and do it right originally.
It is important to remember that, the further north you get, the less accurate aerial resources are. The overlay of the map data gets progressively less accurate. The overlays can be as far as fifteen feet off.
I wanna see their response when you try to explain 'Polar' to Grid'!.. ;)
What's the reason for things getting worse further north?
@@MLFranklin You are trying to lay a rectangular grid system, over the top of sphere. It is very hard to get it overlayed on the sphere so it makes sense. I have some facilities where I know that the fences are on the property lines, and overlaying the Counties property records over the the aerial view in Google Earth shows the property lines about 40-feet off.
I take exception to the comment that things are worse as you go farther north. If they are in your area it is because the mapping was poorly done. These government websites are very useful tools but we must understand the the data involved. Each layer is compiled from a different source and each source has a different level of accuracy. In general the aerial photography is the most accurate because it is compiled using specific proven scientific methods which yield a specific designed accuracy sometimes as good as one half foot. The property lines are generally compiled from hand drafted maps at widely varying scales. In my county some converted property maps were at a 1” to 300’ scale. A 1/32” drafting error would equal nearly 10’ on the ground.
@@jeffmallison7876 It isn’t a problem of the accuracy of the survey. The problem lies in the conversion of a rectilinear grid system, which general property surveys are done with, to a spherical coordinate system . And the ability to overlay the two systems. If you are down near the equator, point north, go for a mile, turn 90-degrees right and go east for a mile, then turn 90-degrees right again and go south a mile, the turn 90-degrees right again, and go west for a mile, you are very close to where you started. If you try the same routine at the North Pole, and go south for a mile, turn 90 right, and go west for a mile, then turn 90 right again, and go north a mile. You end up back at the North Pole.
The further north, or south, you are the worse it gets.
And property lines have been calculated using coordinate geometry since at least 1785, so, 237-years. And I think they were done using coordinate geometry before that. They are not done graphically.
Wow! In live in Farmington Ar and did just what you suggested and it came right up. Thanks a million for showing this.
Historical data is very helpful Mark!
After just a minute I had the info. Very helpful. Already called they are emailing results to me.
Thank you for taking the time and passing on this !
This is useful, but the exact property lines will require a survey to determine. I know from experience that what the county has on record can be significantly off from the actual property lines.
Having flipped 600+ houses in the last 18 years I've had a couple property line disputes. The most recent one had a survey finding that the lot was off by several feet in the front and the back. The survey was correct, and the county records were adjusted.
It was not in our favor but had negligible impact, if that. The property boundary on 1 side was a 30-foot marshy area between the property line and navigable water.
Well Mr flipper, a couple of disputes out of 600+ house flippins is a couple shy of being a qualified source for property line location information. Thanks for the expert opinion, but everyone here knows that government offices screw up everything they touch. By the way that's quite impressive flippin almost a house per week. You must be rolling in real estate monies
Our property lines on the county map and the GPS are totally off. Our neighbor wants to go by it because his surveyor went by it
The plat map overlay on the aerial is not definitive. That is to say, only approximate. To use it for, say a fence location, can get you into trouble. For general use, probably OK. This hits home in my present location. Had a tree that the aerial said as on neighbor’s land. For 5 years, I ignored tending to the tree. Neighbor had a professional survey done for his purposes and we found out the tree was 6-10 feet on my side. We discussed and found that both of us were waiting for the other to tend to “his” yard and property (tree). We had a good laugh and I now take care of my property up to his survey markers.
What this County overlay is really for is to discover gross changes to property for the purposes of taxation-not really accurate enough to usually settle disputes. What the video showed was exactly that, e.g. an added rear deck, or a reroof, or a location far removed from a flood prone area.
That beat at the end is bangin though 🔥
VERY good. This can be very useful for property owners, renters, loan officers, and many other people.
It is the survey boundary markers in the ground that rule the day. The boundary lines shown on GIS systems do not prove anything.
2:03 "Click on that. And here comes the soooooooft- ware." LOL! Best dry humor I've heard in a long time!
The GIS missed my sons line adjoining the next door neighbor by 70 feet! Neighbor looked up GIS and tried to claim my Sons driveway. The true survey actually gained land for my son.Hire a surveyor-always!
When my current landlord purchased my neighbor's house, and my house, from the former landlord......
......It was discovered that the "property line" that is supposed to separate the two properties... actually runs through my neighbor's house!!
There's only a six foot distance between our houses.
And the property line is like two or three feet into the other house!!
(Both of these houses were built in the 1950s.)
I was hoping you would show a method to find property lines without hiring a surveyor. I took a gps course one time from FEMA, we were able to find locations right down to a few centimeters with consumer grade gps equipment. Does this work? Jim
Super helpful, I didn't know any of this info was publicly available. Thanks Mark!
The ultimate response is to HIRE A LAND SURVEYOR
As a broker at closing lender has a site survey completed. No one looks at it but I do every time. One home was built over a natural gas pipeline. We stopped the closing after explaining to my buyer to assure the pipeline was inactive. It was. Surveys show utility lines etc. Note on title insurance. If you get a loan the lender requires title insurance that the buyer pays. Very important to note the following. This insures the lender of no title problems but does not cover the buyer unless you pay more for a buyer policy. Which I require or my client can go with another realtor. One client of mine didn’t want to but finally agreed. Four months later I checked in with him. The prior owner had remarried when he sold the home but his prior wife claimed an interest after he sold it. Apparently no one knew but she did have an interest though not in title. So she came after my buyer. He called the title insurance company and they said no just had lender insurance which 95% of people only have. So he had just given an attorney 5k with a final tag of 20k to resolve his title issue. I asked him to take hud one closing statement and look at the title insurance charge. There was one for lender and an additional charge for the buyer. He had paid a one time fee of 300.00 to cover him for his lifetime. He called the attorney back cancelled him. Picked up his check and called the title company back. He paid 0. This insurance covers him even after he sells the house. No one can come back on you for title problems ever. A small price to pay. Now you know.
does Kansas have a similar web source? I'd really like to know Exactly where my property lines are to put up a fence.
I looked into this, whenever I made the video originally it was for a personal friend in Missouri and I never thought it would get more than 10 views hahah.😂 However, I've made an updated version of this video to help others that aren't just in Missouri. th-cam.com/video/Ez9M0zZdWtY/w-d-xo.html
I've been trying to get a surveyor for 2 years. They either don't call back or say they will and never do. Why is it so hard to get a surveyor? I don't want to pay for an app that I will only use once and isn't legally binding.
Hi Jim. Agreed. I think like other industries it is hard to find Surveyors who will work hard and go outside.
There's a disclaimer on those online real estate information maps. The property lines are approximate. They could be inaccurate by a 10 feet or more
Im my state property line are marked with steel stakes put into ground an if there’s curbs an gutters many street curb have large nails installed for each front property line
The linbes are distorted from taking the pictures from above . I know mine are . I got my 3 lots surveyed and it was included in the purchase of the property 3 lots 1 acre each owner wanted 9 thousand a lot and I got hi down to 5 thouysand a lot since I was paying cash . Same with my 2440 sq ft modular house that I designedand had built by norris homes in Tenn. and shipped to Va set up included in the purchase on my basement cash speaks
Is this information available in every county in the USA...? I'm in the state in Illinois...
I looked into this, whenever I made the video originally it was for a personal friend in Missouri and I never thought it would get more than 10 views hahah.😂 However, I've made an updated version of this video to help others that aren't just in Missouri. th-cam.com/video/Ez9M0zZdWtY/w-d-xo.html
Nice video…as recent STL weather events have shown us, a better response about insurance and flood plains is although flood insurance is not required please check with your insurance agent regarding your own coverages ( or lack of..)
Good point TG.
Many locales require subscription for some of the features he accessed. Additionally, the GIS info can be wrong as it is often based on assumptions that can prove inaccurate when surveyed on site. Always consult a land surveyor before buying and try to get the seller to pay for it as the seller is making representations as to what is being offered.
We've been looking for land and property in Missouri and at first we asked the Realtor, who is supposed to be a professional, where the property lines were. We realized our realtor wasn't up on some things and even took 5 days to get back to us so we didn't even trust whatever she found as property lines...I'm hoping to get this to work for me in Texas County Missouri...no luck yet.
I looked into this, whenever I made the video originally it was for a personal friend in Missouri and I never thought it would get more than 10 views hahah.😂 However, I've made an updated version of this video to help others that couldn't get the sites to work this new video should be much more helpful... Hopefully! th-cam.com/video/Ez9M0zZdWtY/w-d-xo.html
@@MarkTheRealtor Very good, thanks you. I will finish watching a little later but nice video!
Another Licensed Land surveyor here cringing at the title of this video. Agency GIS websites are handy but are not intended for boundary location. Realtors telling people where property lines are is considered unlicensed practice in every state I’m licensed in.
The GIS lines ARE NOT THE PROPERTY LINES! They just show you or a surveyor where to start looking for the buried iron corner pins. Somebody has to get out there with a metal detector and a shovel to find the actual corner pins. Even if you do uncover all those pins, you may not be able to see from one to the next. Then you need a surveyor to sight from visible pins to mark your property line with stakes. I like to go out with foot long rebar pieces to pound into the ground at those stakes, since kids and a-hole neighbors like to pull up stakes.
Never assume an old fence is on the line, because people often build a fence a bit back from the line so it is all on their property.
I looked into this, and I've made an undated version of the video, hopefully this one is more acceptable, would love to know your critiques th-cam.com/video/Ez9M0zZdWtY/w-d-xo.html
I took your advice and actually used a metal detector and dug up the corner pins.
Hey, when we bought this box house, the past owners been surveys house more than 5 times...Anyway our neighbor been digging up those post of lines of our property ...
Either the 1995 photo was offset or they moved the houses afterwards. City maps give you an idea of where things are, but they are no substitute for a survey.
What does any of this gobbely goop have to do with where the actual property corners are?
What side of the sidewalk are the property pins usually set on? The side closer to the house or the side closer to the road ?
Hi Jenna. Great question. So it's market dependent. In St. Louis most of our road easements are 50' wide. And the pavement is 28' wide. So there is an 11' from the curb dedication strip on each side. So, our front property corners are often 11' from the curb.
I an a title examiner and abstractor with over 40 years of experience. Neve depend on the county GIS site. Our tax maps in Alabama state hat these maps are not to be used for conveyance purposes for good reasons. Always get a survey unless the property is subdivided and has a map recorded with the location of the lot lines. Even then you can't be sure of the location of the improvements without a survey.
These property lines are vastly wrong in several cities in my area in Virginia. The aerial overlay that the cities do seem to be offset by several 10's of feet. For example property lines runni ng through houses and driveways.
Not much about property lines. These maps are only approximate. Any question, you need a survey, but you can also try to find the corner markers.
I bought a cornfield had 13 Neighbors. Seven of them were encroaching I found out. I hired two lawyers. I've had to work hard but I have all the fences off my property. And sheds.
So where is the part about checking the property lines?
I had a surveyor tell me they needed $1700 for my $35,000 property. I decided to spend the money on the mortgage instead and everything worked out fine. They said they recently did the property and it was a difficult job. Seems like they would only have to look it up on their computer and were used to people just rolling with the punches.
Sorry to hear that.
Bought a house outright no financing. Some question about back boundary. Older neighbours tell us previous owner bought the back field and my understanding is a merge occurred. Our local municipal has thrown a sneaky wrongful intent to seize at us. Sent those notices to an old address not the house we just bought. We intercepted and paid their crazy penalties for $84. shortfall in property taxes plus all their creative accounting of fines, interest and added legal debt fees. Now we have a letter saying “we can’t sell” until we define that back boundary and they offer to pay for that process. But we purchased with this unknown issue. The lawyer with held info and is married to the ward counsellor!! They have plans for a phase 1 and Phase 2 dense housing projects. How do older retired folks get legal representation to defend themselves? Municipal could just redone entire area and out everyone!
Thanks much... answered a lot of questions for me...
Those property lines are definitely only approximate. Note that the lines moved when you went to the 1995 map. I recently bought a property in Idaho and the property lines on the map are way off. This is been verified by locating the survey pins on the corners of the property. Not everybody has that luxury of having survey pins available.
I know where our lines are at from talking with the last land owner and you can see it he showed me for if i ever finish up on extending my fence in the backyard a portion of the back is shared i still know right where to put the post at whenever I have post markers on each corner of the yard
This very important. About 15 years ago aman bought the house next door to my mother's home and claimed that my mother's fence was 5ft. over the property line on his property, well the fence had been there since 1959 when my mother's uncle built the home, we have pictures from the early 1960's with the fence in place, but the guy took the fence down and put another one 5ft. over the line. My parents were afraid of the man, and didn't want to resist so he got away with it, but they have passed and I'm thinking of going to court.
Contact a local small firm surveyor. They can do an on the ground survey for a lot less that the larger firms. It's the only way to legally locate the fence.
Professional Land Surveyor and a good boundary line survey pinned and set by same - PERIOD.
My apologies, this video is wrong and outdated, here is a link to the current/updated version. th-cam.com/video/Ez9M0zZdWtY/w-d-xo.html
Hiring a surveyor is in the description for this video. This was never intended to be a survey replacement. It's an approximation people can use during the 24-hours they have to evaluate a house pre-contract. Then post-contract we have a 25-day contingency within which we can order an actual Survey from a licensed professional.
As a retired builder ,the only thing that will hold up in court is a full survey done by a licensed surveyor. Spend the money it will be the best money you will spend
I've noticed that the lines shown on GIS are seldom within 2' of being accurate.
How did they get a 1995 top view of that house cause I was about 25 then and I don't remember Google maps or drones flying around back then.
Airplanes would fly grids and they would splice the physical images together on a large table.
Another way is go to the county and get what we call in my city but might be different somewhere else is a plot map or zoning map. These maps will have the dimensions of the lots and roads and some survey points on them. With a proper map and a real long measurement tap and they can go 200ft or more , with this information you can do a simple survey, I’ve done it myself. Then if you find irregularities then contact a civil engineer- surveyor to do a professional survey.
my property lines are totally wrong on the WA state Geodata site. My house literally splits the property line, and the rest of my property is through my neighbors yard. I called the county, and they said "don't worry about it, the property lines are occasionally wrong on the geodata site." Shrug.
Informative, enjoyable video, thanks.
You can't use GIS for exact property lines. Its ok for getting a general feel, but it is not accurate unless surveyed. GIS data is not often going to be survey grade.
Hi can you determine a property boarder for 63752 Gemini road Joshua tree California? According to a San Bernardino county viewer map it shows that Gemini road is on this property but it is being used by the public access to get to other properties. Does the assessor have a record of whether Gemini road is a private road or not? SERIOUSLY STOP CORRUPTION OR IT WILL KILL YOU 🇺🇸
It was never intended for California. It's for St. Louis County MO. Open your eyes before you criticize.
I can’t find this in my county so how to find the website for a county?
I looked into this, whenever I made the video originally it was for a personal friend in Missouri and I never thought it would get more than 10 views hahah.😂 However, I've made an updated version of this video to help others that had trouble with the website or aren't in Missouri. th-cam.com/video/Ez9M0zZdWtY/w-d-xo.html
Very useful, thank you very much!
all i want to know is what is that beat at the end and if i can get a link to it
Very informative, thank you
The state survey maps on government websites is not always correct.there was an easement for utilities between my mothers home and the neighbors. Over 40 yrs it was correct. Then a new person got in there and randomly picked fence lines as boundaries. There was an open space between our fences. 7 feet by 80ft behind the fence was ours. 4ft by 100 ft of the open space was the neighbors. The person drawing the lines changed the property line to our fence line giving that 7 ft by 80 ft to the neighbors. Fortunately we still had the original papers on the house. This was done to all properties in our neighborhood. No idea who did this but that much space seriously affected the selling price of the house. Get a surveyor
Brilliant, Mark!! Thank you for sharing!!
Good info sweet man
Can you tell me where I would look for info in Nashville, TN Davidson county? I can’t find anything similar to what you show. Thanks
I check mine and my fence in California both side are in too far 5 foot both sides,, But it’s to expensive to do anything about it..
Check with your city or jurisdiction code for requirements when having a fence installed. There may be a set distance that the fence has to be back from the actual property line. That doesn't mean your property is at the fence line. This allows for maintenance of the fence. It may also require that you mow on that side of the fence if necessary. Always good to have the information in printed form for any future questions or disputes so make sure to get official documentation from the governing authority.
It's easier to just type in GIS after any county online search. I.e., St. Louis County GIS. But these property lines are not exact.
Good point. Websites like LandGlide get their data from the GIS Mapping websites.
I tried to get a survey yrs ago for my home in town. The surveyor just kind of put me off because it wasn't a big project
That is preliminary good for your advertisement but for a matter of facts, actual precise property boundary need a registered land surveyor other than gamboling.
What if your county does not upkeep records , skips around.
So is there a software like this to use for texss?
so if your county has a GIS system then ...
Just the ballpark figure how much do surveyors cost?
We are seeing Surveys cost between $600 and $2,000 depending on the age of the house and the size of the property.
🟥🟥🟥 So, what's this got to do with WHERE the property lines are ???
County maps are usually NOT "orthographically correct" Think of it like wrapping a car. Flat Photo, round earth......... Most tax maps are +/- 5-10 feet. That is why you have to check a little box explaining how you basically can't use the online maps for any planning purposes etc.
Thank you Elric for the note. Well received.
Realtors know nothing . Except their commission .
If you want to know the property lines , and history of a property .you must do a long title search going back to the very first survey .
Long title search .
Realtors are nothing more than used car salesman .
Most only do short title search for quick sales .
Get a survey. Get a survey. Get a survey. I'd never recommend a client rely on the municipal jurisdiction's GIS in lieu of a proper land survey. Even if by chance the GIS and the true (surveyed) corners of the property happen to agree, a survey will reveal details that looking online at a GIS presentation won't.
My property marker was 7 feet away from the GIS map. I have a small backyard and almost lost 350
square feet when using this to do a fence.
Luckily I bought a metal detector to look for the survey pins!
This is great news Melvin. Good work.
@@MarkTheRealtor indeed! A 70 dollar harbor freight metal detector and a few hours of digging. Cleaned up about 30 rusty screws and bolts.
Thank you for your videos and the pinned comment
@@MelvinIsMerlin Thank you Melvin. Made me smile with the note about 30 rusty screws.
Can you help me find similar websites for Texas and Rhode Island where I own properties?
Hi Bob. Sure. Search the name of your County and then put "GIS Mapping" after your County name. Hope that helps.
Can you check the quality of the property lines? (how accurate they are)
Please consider an App called LandGlide. We have had great luck with it.
GIS stands for GET IT SURVEYED.
I use mine all the time everything I need to gain info before putting in a bid it shows property lines and I can see actually who owns it and year of purchase date and the deed will state all the same info the survey guys will use and you can use it too, and any easements if any apply. All counties in every state will have this info online but you just have to look in the right place.
Access is not free in some counties.
Thanks for the info. You can be a body double for Alton Brown
Does anyone know if the same search can be done in Los Angeles County? I can't seem to pull up the info.
Idk if that is a good property for 6 dogs lol. With the neighbors being 10 feet away from your house