SALT LAKE CITY (ABC4 Utah) - What would you do if you built a new home and found out you have more property? That's what Mallory Rogers and Steven Carter say happened to them on their dream home.
@@strongtowerman9661 Yes and if he is wrong, he's bought you a fence. A surveyor is the only professional who can determine your property line on the ground. At least in Florida, he or she is. Not a realtor, not a building contractor, or plumber or telephone repairman or Biden. The only reason people want to trust the position of a property line based on verbal information from a realtor is because it doesn't cost anything. At least not a first. Just spend $400 or whatever and get it done when you're having a $4000 fence put up.
The fact that the builder says he has zero liability or responsibility, then immediately says he will split the cost 50/50 to me indicates that the builder knows he is responsible and is trying to pass it on to the homeowners.
Which basically means, like so many OTHER fine "businessmen", their business model is based on fucking the life out of their customers when and if possible.
The verbal promise of that company is worth the paper it is written upon. And Horton totally controls the HOA so long as they own ANY property in that development.
The second i heard they were offering to split the cost i said to myself "that company wouldn't put out a settlement offer if they didn't know they were liable and responsible."
@@aomanchutube You have to pay a guy to do it in an HOA too. The benefit of living in one is that your neighbors are forced to keep their properties looking nice so your property value stays high when you sell.
My suburban county is starting to behave like an HOA. You can’t have a StepVan in a residential neighborhood, yet a neighbor has 5-6 huge pickup trucks and 2 large trailers for their roofing company parked in the yard and business activity starts around 5 am.County does nothing about it despite multiple complaints from several neighbors.
HOA has NOTHING to do with this. Builder and homeowners need to work this out and confirm property lines with a certified, bonded surveyor. We made sure of this when we bought our home and it has made the world of difference with our neighbors. City of Saratoga Springs has the requirement to complete yards in a short timeframe too. HOA just included the requirement in their covenants.
@@wesleyhempoli5548 you get what you deserve when you live in an HOA. when I was house the letters HOA were an automatic no questions asked "no deal" move on. I don't care how nice a home it is its not worth 1/10th that if I have to deal with an HOA its bad enough I have to deal with one already (Government) I am not dealing with TWO little kingdoms dictating what i can do with my home. HOA's start out with good intentions but 100% of the time turn corrupt. no exceptions. its not a matter of if but when and they have MORE POWER over your home than YOU DO but YOU paid for the home. not them. F that.
same if u choice to live in HOA & get the run around & etc to bad on u owner dont cry & say it them when u buy the house there....... everyone will not buy there once they say or ask when told it in a HOA if it me i say nope not living in this area run by dumb people i pick some where else not here
Hmm second time this week that I must repeat... "Do not buy a property governed by an HOA"... You own the property and you live there, it's just not yours yours.
When you hear "Our lawyers says we are not liable but we will pay 50% to fix the mistake.." you know they know they f'ed up and just trying to minimize the cost of their mistake.
the salesperson or whoever told them was misinformed and gave wrong advice. What they should have said was hire a surveyor to mark property line. That doesnt make them liable to pay for your mistake.
HI MY NEIGHBOR WANTS TO BUILD A SMALL GARAGE NEAR OUR PROPERTY WE HAVE MARKETS FROM 1950S AND HE SAID GPS ARE THE WAY TO GO WHAT A LIAR WE HAVE LEGAL MARKERS TO SEE WHERE THEY ARE,, THEY WERE PUT THERE FROM MY LATE DAD AND THEYRE PAINTED TOO WTF IS HE SAYING? WE GOT BUSHES THERE TOO ON THE LINE PLYS HE WANTS TO BULD A FENCE TOO ANY SUGGESTIONS SIR? HELP
@@hotbrasst2451 WELL MY NEIGHBORS GONNA DO THAT AND HERE IN OUR TOWN HES GONNA GET REJECTED I HOPE WE GOT LEGAL PAPERS! I DONT KNOW WHAT HIS ISSUE IS WE GOT PROPERTY FILES DATED BACK TO THE 1950S HERE! LEGALLY APPARENTLY HE DONT BELEIVE IN OLD MAPS THAT PROVE IT I ALREADY TOLD HIM WE GOT MARKERS THAT ARE PAINTED TOO! FROM ONE END TO THE OTHER END
"We arent liable..." "...we will pay half" Yea..somethings not adding up Sounds like they knew full well they would have to pay full but tried to cut their losses hoping the homeowner was stupid
I had a surveyor do my property in TX when I noticed the front and back rod didn't form a 90 degree with the alleyway behind the homes. Turns out they were at least 3' off and they had to adjust a whole slew of houses down the row... Never buy a home without a confirmed survey, stakes in place... and it's illegal in most states to remove/move surveyor placed property markers.
@@socommaster The reason people hate HOAs (that they force you to maintain your property) is the same reason they maintain your property value since they're forcing your neighbors to do the same. Without an HOA your neighbors could park broken cars on their front lawns, not paint their houses, blast music all the time, etc. All things that lower your house's value.
@@socommaster What are you basing that on? The fact is even it's not the norm everywhere else it can't happen in an HOA. That's why people hate them. They can't ever slack off on maintaining their property. Everyone's HOA fees are also pooled and used to maintain the roads, sidewalks, trees/plants, etc in the HOA area better than the government usually does, which also maintains everyone's house values better than non-HOAs.
Call #1 to builder. After a return call like that, call #2 to my attorney. Call #3 to the title company to drop this shit bomb on their desk to get fixed.
@@helenholt1161 Actually, the Title Company and the builder would be on the hook. Most likely, the title insurance would kick in and hammer the builder - unless the title company was in the pocket of the builder. Then, ya' go to the Insurance Commission. Lots of levers here...most important one, the press. People think that you hammer these guys with legal bills. Nah, you hammer their sales line with bad press. Want to squeeze their adrenals? Go to the press. A loss of a sale drops 100% through the P&L. PS DR Horton are shitty builders. Build quality decent. Customer service sucks donkey balls.
The title company verifies that the seller can legally sell the parcel. The parcel is described on a piece of paper. The surveyor places markers according to that description. The homeowners complaint is with the builder who should have hired a surveyor who would be insured in case of such mistakes.
@@jcraigshelton Maybe you should post some videos on your TH-cam page with all the things you have accomplished in your life? You know, so everyone can see the things you own, house, cars, motorcycles etc. That way when you make comments like you are God, the rest of the world can look you up and see how successful you are and understand why living in a development with an HOA is such a great idea. Please.
@@jcraigshelton when you live in an hoa controlled neighborhood you dont have control of any aspect to the home or yard. you literally paid hundreds of thousands of dollars to have someone else tell you how to live.
This is why all homeowners should study their final plats, site plans, and asbuilts before purchasing any property. Also, getting an independent surveyor to do this is even better.
The thing is, all surveyors are independent, licensed, and insured. Something doesn’t add up to this story. A survey from a licensed surveyor would have been required for title insurance. If the original survey was inaccurate the homeowners can go after that surveyor’s insurance policy. Sounds to me the homeowners built “where they were told” and didn’t look at a survey they no doubt had a copy of or should have obtained a copy.
@@darwinawardcommittee , and there likely was little no no inspections/checks along the way such as foundation checks and finals by the surveyor. What I mean by independent is that another licensed surveyor who did not participate in the final subd plat. The FP would have these berms listed in their HOA deed or zoning stipulations as they coincide with building setback reqs. They did seem to just build as they were told and that most likely the issue. After much money and time were spent, getting things right would be costly so we see a push for a variance against the original FP and zoning stds and also a person responsible to pay for it all.
Actually it is on the homeowner. I'm a surveyor and the builder has a responsibility to put the house in the right place but as the fence was not put up by them they have no liability. That piece of rebar is not a legal pin and the foreman is not a surveyor so anything he says about property lines is meaningless.
So if the house is supposed to be 15' from the line and it's 15' from whatever the builder claims is the line then you think it's on the purchaser of the property to know a metal stake stuck in the ground that the builder claims is the property line is not actually the property line? It would seem the builder's legal team disagrees with your legal analysis.
@@chrisfoxwell4128 The surveyor makes sure the house goes where it needs to. The surveyor, not the builder, knows where the prop corners are and lays out stakes to guide the builder on where to pour the house foundation. The builder SHOULD have had the surveyor stake the berm line to assist them with grading out the Lot. The homeowners are only responsible for putting the fence in the wrong spot as they did not involve the builder in the construction of the fence.
building inspector should have caught the setback discrepancies. I've seen three house foundations demolished after the inspector found the builder put them in the wrong spot. 3 feet off.
This took place like 8 months ago so I hope everything turned out okay for them. Why can't businesses be honest without having to get lawyers and the news involved
@@exceptionaltalentspc4954 you just described every company I've ever worked for or done business with. "Doing the right thing" is only a PR / marketing ploy.
It's amazing how after a call from you, the builder is fixing their mistake!!! ..... albeit... slowly..... but eventually they will fix it!!!... At the very least, they have accepted responsibility!!!... Thank you for making a difference!!!!😊❤❤
And sometimes surveyors make mistakes, like here. There is a title insurance endorsement that covers errors in the survey. Always get it. Always get a survey too.
@@robertmorris8997 Yes indeed. I was a land surveyor for many years. Also, once the survey is done check with the county records to be sure it is correct. I once sold some of my property and even though the survey showed I now owned the easement, the county records showed the buyer owned it. I had that corrected right away within 3 days. Keep on top of things.
I am a licensed surveyor and I would NEVER purchase any land without a current land survey (we cannot ethically survey our own land). As for the builder (DR Horton) they were lying through their gums saying they were not responsible! They are most assuredly fully responsible! Of course they will take it out on the survey company they use in that subdivision. Builders typically hire one survey firm to do every survey in each subdivision so it is very likely that the same survey company did every lot DR Horton built a home on.
@@DMAneoth you cannot ethically survey your own land but you CAN find the corners and lines so you know the company you hire is doing it right. Kudos to you.
I lived in one HOA community and for the most part it was pretty good. Rules, yes and some of them were beyond stupid. For example, my neighbor had artificial plants in two big pots on the side of her gate. The HOA has residents that walk or drive around the area looking for rule breakers so they made her remove the fake plants. Instead, she filled them with cheap wind fans like a kid would have. Those were OK but no fake silk flowers from the high end art store!
Why would the home owner customers accept an apology that came only because the builder did not want their incompetence and rude customer care to be on the news?
My father had a Surveying business for 20 plus years. I worked for him for 9 years as a crew chief. Rule number 1. When buying any property, make damn sure you get a Survey and have your property corners staked! Rule number 2. Read Rule number 1.
I too wanted to build a fence. So I bought a used metal detector from a pawn shop for 25 dollars , and found the original survey pins placed there in 1954. They were 4 to 7 inches underground.
I work in development construction, the first thing I will tell you is DO NOT TRUST ANYTHING THE BUILDER TELLS YOU, They are the most dishonest people I know of, especially builders of subdivisions.
When you want to build a fence it is on you to ensure that the property line is known. That means you need to go to the county, get a copy of the subdivision map and find property corners that should be there by law (in most states) in a new subdivision. These should have an identifiable cap on them to tell you who set it. The rebar shown looks like it was put in to pull a string line. A rebar without a cap is unknown. Always, always have a surveyor come over and look over your place before you build a 10k fence. Bummer deal.
As a Realtor and former Professional Surveyor, I recommend getting a survey BEFORE you close on your home, particularly in new subdivisions with small lots and large homes jammed on them. You may need to get permission from your neighbor to put your ladder on their property to be able to get to clean your gutters or paint the second floor windows.
Yeah, new subdivisions are ALL ABOUT MAKING MONEY for the builder...JAMMED INTO a SMALL LOT. NO thanks. Have lived on a rural acreage for DECADES. NOT gonna happen.
ALWAYS call a licensed professional Surveyor BEFORE doing any work whatsoever near your boundaries! Real Estate agents and Construction companies HAVE NO IDEA where your property lines are, do you depend on your mechanic to tell you how to fix your computer??
Most HOA communities only allow certain builders work. So I don't think that the news got as much done as some board members probably didn't want a light to be shed on themselves.
The original surveying company would be responsible. All cost should go back to them . Sounds like to me the company didnt have it surveyed and just done what they thought was right. I do construction and have seen this scenario many times. My advice is know where your property is using a trusted and licensed survey company. Also when purchasing the home you should get a legal description of the property. You can check this, obviously not with precise accuracy but close enough to see if it is correct.
This isn’t entirely true. It sounds to me like the first foreman (who she presumes is a surveyor) is not a surveyor. Then the real surveyor showed up and told them where the lot corners were. Also, you can’t just use a legal description to roughly find your property. In this situation, the legal likely says something like “Lot 32 of Smiths Subdivision...” which gives NO distance information. How do you suppose you rough that in? Just call a real surveyor.
@@itchynackers they had said it was "surveyed" the first time and then found it was incorrect when the second surveyors came out. I would assume the first one was not done by an actual surveyor but probably done by the contractor. Of course this is an assumption but I say this because even though there are always very small discrepancies in points I have never seen differences in feet. Locally when a new subdivision is put in, the lots are surveyed and marked not sure if it is state or local laws. My guess is the company trying to save a dollar pulled tapes to get the pins and that was as close as they could get. Not sure in all states but illinois the legal description does give you all of the corner pins of your property and is a great thing to help in finding those pins. It does not show easements or anything else for the property. My advice to anyone would be if it wasn't surveyed by a licensed surveyor have it done before you buy the property. I had issues with the city I lived in luckily I had it surveyed with all easements etc.. up to date. I was happy at the end, the city wasn't. If it was done by an actual survey company the first time then the construction company wouldn't have volunteered to make it right, it would be the survey companies responsibility and their insurance would have paid for all costs. Have a great day.
@@mathtime4578 I see where you are getting at. But if it’s a new subdivision it was obviously surveyed before. I assume the contractor didn’t double check where the property corners were since it’s know in new under construction subdivisions to run over the wood stakes that are a inch to a couple inches away from a property corner. Also, the rebar that was shown that they used and assumed was the property corners was definitely not put by the original surveyor. It seemed to be a rebar used to pull a string. The second surveyor most likely found the original corners and staked them out with wood stakes and the contractor knew they messed up.
As a property owner, having to follow city and county, rules and regulations, while being a good neighbor, is all the oversight I will allow! To be additionally burdened by an HOA council, which could at (m)any time(s) be selfishly self-serving and arbitrary, is an oppression I never have, nor ever will subject myself to!
I'm a Brit and I find it strange that a group of residents can form a committee; make rules governing the behaviour of residents; appoint themselves arbiters of all disputes and charge you for membership. Said membership apparently affords little or no rights. Did I miss something here?
@@trevorhoward7682 Often US neighborhoods are built with "amenities" such as playgrounds, golf courses, gardens, water features, pools, clubhouses, polo fields, etc. These community assets require ownership and funding. Also, by example in this case, some people can't seem to finish their homes, like the lawn in question, which is a violation (notice the period to finish the landscaping was 6 months after sale). Muddy, weed infested messes do not help with the neighborhood values. I'll bet there is a similar rule that 12 months after ground is broken the unit has to be ready for occupancy. Nobody wants a semi-abandoned project next door. All this is explained and it's in the contract as you buy a property. People love HOAs because they're beautiful and full of amenities. The next day they're complaining about "rules" or "dues". They need to grow up. Or buy individual property without access to community assets. (btw -- all rules can be changed by a simple member vote)
1.) Never buy a house in an HOA community (why do people keep doing this) 2.) If you are a new home owner you need to hire different types of people including a surveyor and not just believe what someone tells you.
HOA had nothing to do with the problem but thanks for being a lemming. People like you, the reason this country sucks. Seriously. This thread is filled with lemmings just like you. America, land of idiots.
@@helenholt1161 Helen Holt Oh Helen! Somebody got a thorn in her ass today! You must be the old bag who has a little authority to measure the height of the grass in the HOA front lawns and give out tickets. If you believe living in a HOA is a good thing good for you. You like being told what to do..... fool.
@@unalienable5408 Laughing, I dont live in a HOA. But i can follow a story and not blanket my agenda onto it when it isn't applicable. Get a brain Scarcrow. They are all the rage. Still laughing, at you.
@@helenholt1161 No HOA? Nothing better to do than comment on something you have no idea about. I'll bet your a traveling gypsy living in an RV or a double wide.
Why in the hell would you buy a home connected with a pain in the ass HOA anyway ? Doesn't make good sense. Are you so disconnected that you have to have others to tell you how you're going to live and telling you what you're going to do or else? Fuck that shit!!!!!
Yeah this shit happens my neighbor recently took 90% of my other neighbors yard because she found out it was her property so now my neighbor has nowhere to park his cars
@@wernerfoerster3666 If you shop for the right house in the right area that is not going to happen. It's a strawman argument to justify buying a house and giving control to tyrants.
and just t show what a farce it is. if that property remained UNBUILT and UNPURCHASED who would be fined if its not finished in 9 months? no one. it could sit like that for 10 years and no one would pay any fines but the moment you guy it. done in 9 months or fines.
This sounds like another reason to never buy a property in a HOA controlled property. This also shows you should have an independent survey of the property before starting work.
@@sebastiangeorge7714 You might try, I'll pass on that kind of horror. Too many employment opportunities out in the countryside. Plus a lot fewer welfare addicts.
1. This is not about HOA. 2. If they had a surveyors report they are not in the wrong. 3. Then problem arose when we another surveyor disagreed with the original surveyor. From what little is gleaned from this report the family did nothing wrong, the problem arise with from improper documents. But fortunately seems like it has been sorted. But again comments about negative HOA, this had nothing to do with the HOA.
I am a registered land surveyor in texas. their mistake was taking the builder's opinion as gospel. he had no idea what he was talking about. somebody clearly picked up that iron rod and stuck it in the ground where there THOUGHT it was supposed be. dirt berms are never a clear indicator of property lines.
David H. People move property corners all the time and put them where they want them. The builder should have ordered a Final Survey. I have worked for land surveyors who have never found a property corner because it was in thick bushes [etc,] and just taken an iron rod and thrown it in the bushes and marked on the Survey "found 5/8" iron, no ID. Who's going to argue with them.
Under law I believe if it is a recently built home and it is not built correctly, the builder MUST make it right. Either by fixing the house/property line and if unable to do, buy the house at the cost of what the owners paid for it and in some states also give additional 5% payment to the owner for said house that was built incorrectly.
This isn't new. Ivory Homes has done shady crap like this as well. Word of advise, get everything recorded on what they say when building in a new development.
Being British, I really don't understand HOA's. 1. Do you have to join? 2. What are the benefits? 3. How can they fine you for NOT doing something to YOUR property?
HOA has nothing, repeat, NOTHING to do with this. It is all on the Home Owner's for not confirming their property lines. Every piece of property I've purchased I've hired a bonded surveyor to confirm the boundaries. As for dealing with the HOA, it's all about communication. The CC&Rs for the HOA's I've researched allow for variances, waivers, extensions etc. All the home owner has to do is communicate.
DR Horton built our house and it took over a year and multiple threats of lawsuits to get it finished after we moved in. The builder lied, misrepresented and did really shoddy work.
DR Horton has a bad reputation for their work. There is an entire neighborhood here in San Antonio that had poor foundations and that dangerous Chinese drywall.
As a surveyor, never trust someone building a fence to tell you where your property line is.....
As another surveyor , don't trust the realtor either
@@stevec7626 so, when you put up a fence, do you put it based on the survey property line???
@@strongtowerman9661 Yes and if he is wrong, he's bought you a fence. A surveyor is the only professional who can determine your property line on the ground. At least in Florida, he or she is. Not a realtor, not a building contractor, or plumber or telephone repairman or Biden. The only reason people want to trust the position of a property line based on verbal information from a realtor is because it doesn't cost anything. At least not a first.
Just spend $400 or whatever and get it done when you're having a $4000 fence put up.
@@stevec7626 you couldn’t have said it any better surveyor here.
THATS WHAT MY NEIGHBOR WANTS TO DO US
BULD A FENCE!
HE SAID GOOD FENCES MAKE GOOD NEIGHBORS
WHAT A AHOLE
HELP
The fact that the builder says he has zero liability or responsibility, then immediately says he will split the cost 50/50 to me indicates that the builder knows he is responsible and is trying to pass it on to the homeowners.
Which basically means, like so many OTHER fine "businessmen", their business model is based on fucking the life out of their customers when and if possible.
Word to the wise: when a company tells you they aren’t liable and offer to split the cost with you 50/50, press them.
Yeah, that seemed like a big red flag to me.
The verbal promise of that company is worth the paper it is written upon. And Horton totally controls the HOA so long as they own ANY property in that development.
The second i heard they were offering to split the cost i said to myself "that company wouldn't put out a settlement offer if they didn't know they were liable and responsible."
That sounded a bit shady when I heard it.
Record every conversation!
Never buy a house in a HOA. Unless you like dictatorships.
Total dicktators for sure. Never before and never again. Dude, if you want your landscape done, just pay a guy to do it.
@@aomanchutube You have to pay a guy to do it in an HOA too. The benefit of living in one is that your neighbors are forced to keep their properties looking nice so your property value stays high when you sell.
Coming from someone I’m guessing doesn’t own a home in an HOA? Lol
That was there first mistake.
@@latebarz and your disparaging remark from a guy that doesn't own a home either
Basic rule: Never subject yourself to an HOA.
I can't understand why anybody would buy a house with a HOA...
It keeps your property value higher so you make more money when you sell.
@@Nayr747 to me it lowers the value in my eyes. I hate HOA
It all depends on the HOA.
HOA wasn't the problem here.
My suburban county is starting to behave like an HOA. You can’t have a StepVan in a residential neighborhood, yet a neighbor has 5-6 huge pickup trucks and 2 large trailers for their roofing company parked in the yard and business activity starts around 5 am.County does nothing about it despite multiple complaints from several neighbors.
As soon as I heard "home owners association" I stopped caring.
huh? sounds like you have a trigger issue. hopefully you can work that out.
HOA has NOTHING to do with this. Builder and homeowners need to work this out and confirm property lines with a certified, bonded surveyor. We made sure of this when we bought our home and it has made the world of difference with our neighbors. City of Saratoga Springs has the requirement to complete yards in a short timeframe too. HOA just included the requirement in their covenants.
@@wesleyhempoli5548 you get what you deserve when you live in an HOA. when I was house the letters HOA were an automatic no questions asked "no deal" move on. I don't care how nice a home it is its not worth 1/10th that if I have to deal with an HOA
its bad enough I have to deal with one already (Government) I am not dealing with TWO little kingdoms dictating what i can do with my home.
HOA's start out with good intentions but 100% of the time turn corrupt. no exceptions. its not a matter of if but when and they have MORE POWER over your home than YOU DO but YOU paid for the home. not them.
F that.
Anyone dumb enough to move to an HOA neighbourhood deserves the hell that awaits them.
same if u choice to live in HOA & get the run around & etc to bad on u owner dont cry & say it them when u buy the house there.......
everyone will not buy there once they say or ask when told it in a HOA if it me i say nope not living in this area run by dumb people i pick some where else not here
Hmm second time this week that I must repeat... "Do not buy a property governed by an HOA"... You own the property and you live there, it's just not yours yours.
You never really own it. Try not paying your property taxes...
@@skliros9235 oh those you own, the HOA will never get in between a person and his or her taxes. LOL.
The first problem is living in an HOA
i think it's hilarious that you're trying to blame the HOA on this. you definitely are not a thinker.
@@wesleyhempoli5548 nope not blaming the HOA just saying His problem Is he's living in an HOA they suck
@@michaeld954 They would of still suffered the same issue if not on HOA, fuck you're stupid.
When you hear "Our lawyers says we are not liable but we will pay 50% to fix the mistake.." you know they know they f'ed up and just trying to minimize the cost of their mistake.
the salesperson or whoever told them was misinformed and gave wrong advice. What they should have said was hire a surveyor to mark property line. That doesnt make them liable to pay for your mistake.
As a surveyor, I can say that fence companies do not care about our stakes. I am constantly correcting fences.
HI MY NEIGHBOR WANTS TO BUILD A SMALL GARAGE NEAR OUR PROPERTY
WE HAVE MARKETS FROM 1950S AND HE SAID GPS ARE THE WAY TO GO
WHAT A LIAR
WE HAVE LEGAL MARKERS TO SEE WHERE THEY ARE,, THEY WERE PUT THERE FROM MY LATE DAD AND THEYRE PAINTED TOO
WTF IS HE SAYING? WE GOT BUSHES THERE TOO ON THE LINE
PLYS HE WANTS TO BULD A FENCE TOO
ANY SUGGESTIONS SIR? HELP
@@ekop1778 Get a professional survey done and ask for them to stake out your property lines. That is all I can recommend.
@@hotbrasst2451 WELL MY NEIGHBORS GONNA DO THAT
AND HERE IN OUR TOWN HES GONNA GET REJECTED I HOPE
WE GOT LEGAL PAPERS!
I DONT KNOW WHAT HIS ISSUE IS WE GOT PROPERTY FILES DATED BACK TO THE 1950S HERE!
LEGALLY
APPARENTLY HE DONT BELEIVE IN OLD MAPS THAT PROVE IT
I ALREADY TOLD HIM WE GOT MARKERS THAT ARE PAINTED TOO!
FROM ONE END TO THE OTHER END
"We arent liable..."
"...we will pay half"
Yea..somethings not adding up
Sounds like they knew full well they would have to pay full but tried to cut their losses hoping the homeowner was stupid
Steer clear of HOA unless you like Karen telling you what to do.
jajajaja so true! I bought in HOA/CDD twice and had to move out. Never again. Those Karens are a pest!
Or a DARREN...
A current survey is always a must in the sale negotiation.
Sounds like they did
@@donlemasters5751
Sounds like they didn't have a survey done, and went on someone just telling them where they think the boundary lines are.
I had a surveyor do my property in TX when I noticed the front and back rod didn't form a 90 degree with the alleyway behind the homes. Turns out they were at least 3' off and they had to adjust a whole slew of houses down the row... Never buy a home without a confirmed survey, stakes in place... and it's illegal in most states to remove/move surveyor placed property markers.
It’s their own fault
It’s amazing how fast shit moves when media is involved. Let’s see if they follow through
Why would anyone want to live in a HOA?
HOAs maintain higher property value by forcing your neighbors to maintain their properties.
@@Nayr747 lmao maintain property value? That's the lie that the HOA tells you to keep you under control. No intelligent person would live in an HOA
@@socommaster The reason people hate HOAs (that they force you to maintain your property) is the same reason they maintain your property value since they're forcing your neighbors to do the same. Without an HOA your neighbors could park broken cars on their front lawns, not paint their houses, blast music all the time, etc. All things that lower your house's value.
@@Nayr747 thats such an over exaggeration. Most americans dont live in HOAs and most dont have any of the problems you mentioned
@@socommaster What are you basing that on? The fact is even it's not the norm everywhere else it can't happen in an HOA. That's why people hate them. They can't ever slack off on maintaining their property. Everyone's HOA fees are also pooled and used to maintain the roads, sidewalks, trees/plants, etc in the HOA area better than the government usually does, which also maintains everyone's house values better than non-HOAs.
Call #1 to builder. After a return call like that, call #2 to my attorney. Call #3 to the title company to drop this shit bomb on their desk to get fixed.
Excellent task list.
#4 get a legal bill for being told "nothing we can do."
@@helenholt1161 Actually, the Title Company and the builder would be on the hook. Most likely, the title insurance would kick in and hammer the builder - unless the title company was in the pocket of the builder. Then, ya' go to the Insurance Commission. Lots of levers here...most important one, the press.
People think that you hammer these guys with legal bills. Nah, you hammer their sales line with bad press. Want to squeeze their adrenals? Go to the press. A loss of a sale drops 100% through the P&L.
PS DR Horton are shitty builders. Build quality decent. Customer service sucks donkey balls.
The title company verifies that the seller can legally sell the parcel. The parcel is described on a piece of paper. The surveyor places markers according to that description. The homeowners complaint is with the builder who should have hired a surveyor who would be insured in case of such mistakes.
Title company for what.?
sheep live in HOAs
And the rest live in trailers.
@@jcraigshelton Maybe you should post some videos on your TH-cam page with all the things you have accomplished in your life? You know, so everyone can see the things you own, house, cars, motorcycles etc. That way when you make comments like you are God, the rest of the world can look you up and see how successful you are and understand why living in a development with an HOA is such a great idea. Please.
@@gumballer133 Little boy craig won't do that he would have to think outside his own trailer.🤣
@@jcraigshelton says Biden 2020
@@jcraigshelton when you live in an hoa controlled neighborhood you dont have control of any aspect to the home or yard. you literally paid hundreds of thousands of dollars to have someone else tell you how to live.
This is why all homeowners should study their final plats, site plans, and asbuilts before purchasing any property. Also, getting an independent surveyor to do this is even better.
The thing is, all surveyors are independent, licensed, and insured. Something doesn’t add up to this story. A survey from a licensed surveyor would have been required for title insurance. If the original survey was inaccurate the homeowners can go after that surveyor’s insurance policy.
Sounds to me the homeowners built “where they were told” and didn’t look at a survey they no doubt had a copy of or should have obtained a copy.
@@darwinawardcommittee , and there likely was little no no inspections/checks along the way such as foundation checks and finals by the surveyor. What I mean by independent is that another licensed surveyor who did not participate in the final subd plat.
The FP would have these berms listed in their HOA deed or zoning stipulations as they coincide with building setback reqs.
They did seem to just build as they were told and that most likely the issue. After much money and time were spent, getting things right would be costly so we see a push for a variance against the original FP and zoning stds and also a person responsible to pay for it all.
Yeah, ONE not working FOR/with the builders.
Actually it is on the homeowner. I'm a surveyor and the builder has a responsibility to put the house in the right place but as the fence was not put up by them they have no liability. That piece of rebar is not a legal pin and the foreman is not a surveyor so anything he says about property lines is meaningless.
So if the house is supposed to be 15' from the line and it's 15' from whatever the builder claims is the line then you think it's on the purchaser of the property to know a metal stake stuck in the ground that the builder claims is the property line is not actually the property line? It would seem the builder's legal team disagrees with your legal analysis.
@@chrisfoxwell4128 The surveyor makes sure the house goes where it needs to. The surveyor, not the builder, knows where the prop corners are and lays out stakes to guide the builder on where to pour the house foundation. The builder SHOULD have had the surveyor stake the berm line to assist them with grading out the Lot. The homeowners are only responsible for putting the fence in the wrong spot as they did not involve the builder in the construction of the fence.
@@benhuhman1991 ,no sht, except for not involving the builder who told them where the line supposedly was but wasn't.
building inspector should have caught the setback discrepancies. I've seen three house foundations demolished after the inspector found the builder put them in the wrong spot. 3 feet off.
Graham grasdal
Do you survey in st george utah ?
HOA are like vultures waiting for a chance to swoop down and pick apart a homeowner trying to get maximum fines.
And make themselves FEEL POWERFUL..with their BS.
This took place like 8 months ago so I hope everything turned out okay for them. Why can't businesses be honest without having to get lawyers and the news involved
They care more about money than doing what's right.
@@exceptionaltalentspc4954 you just described every company I've ever worked for or done business with. "Doing the right thing" is only a PR / marketing ploy.
They got a divorce. She started fing around with the neighbor across the way. I told the husband he dodged a bullet... he can't see it yet but he did.
Hmm everyone else in their purchase had an attorney
Never bring a g-n to a knife fight
Penny wise dollar foolish
It's amazing how after a call from you, the builder is fixing their mistake!!! ..... albeit... slowly..... but eventually they will fix it!!!... At the very least, they have accepted responsibility!!!... Thank you for making a difference!!!!😊❤❤
As soon as I heard D.R. Horton ... I too had friends that were scammed by those A-Holes!
I'm sorry. I've owned and bought property b4 and I ALWAYS get s survey for MY property.
And sometimes surveyors make mistakes, like here. There is a title insurance endorsement that covers errors in the survey. Always get it. Always get a survey too.
@@robertmorris8997 Yes indeed. I was a land surveyor for many years. Also, once the survey is done check with the county records to be sure it is correct. I once sold some of my property and even though the survey showed I now owned the easement, the county records showed the buyer owned it. I had that corrected right away within 3 days. Keep on top of things.
smart. You should.
I am a licensed surveyor and I would NEVER purchase any land without a current land survey (we cannot ethically survey our own land). As for the builder (DR Horton) they were lying through their gums saying they were not responsible! They are most assuredly fully responsible!
Of course they will take it out on the survey company they use in that subdivision. Builders typically hire one survey firm to do every survey in each subdivision so it is very likely that the same survey company did every lot DR Horton built a home on.
@@DMAneoth you cannot ethically survey your own land but you CAN find the corners and lines so you know the company you hire is doing it right. Kudos to you.
I lived in one HOA community and for the most part it was pretty good. Rules, yes and some of them were beyond stupid. For example, my neighbor had artificial plants in two big pots on the side of her gate. The HOA has residents that walk or drive around the area looking for rule breakers so they made her remove the fake plants. Instead, she filled them with cheap wind fans like a kid would have. Those were OK but no fake silk flowers from the high end art store!
Why would the home owner customers accept an apology that came only because the builder did not want their incompetence and rude customer care to be on the news?
They probably just want everything To go smoothly.
D R Horton ain't stupid. They know better than to land on the news as the bad guys.
Robert Morris the question was about the home owners.
More than likely DR Horton controls the HOA too! That is very common with new subdivisions.
Always pay for a survey before putting up fencing.
That's what you get for living in an HOA.
Most homes are under HOA control. You're acting like there are plenty of options.
I'm impressed that ABCUtah stepped up when contacted. I'll keep that in mind for any future injustices.
Never, never, ever buy anything with and HOA involved
My father had a Surveying business for 20 plus years.
I worked for him for 9 years as a crew chief.
Rule number 1.
When buying any property, make damn sure you get a Survey and have your property corners staked!
Rule number 2.
Read Rule number 1.
I too wanted to build a fence. So I bought a used metal detector from a pawn shop for 25 dollars , and found the original survey pins placed there in 1954. They were 4 to 7 inches underground.
@@larryrowe5259 Good to know they weren't moved. One of my pins was removed by the utility company when they put in a transformer box.
I work in development construction, the first thing I will tell you is DO NOT TRUST ANYTHING THE BUILDER TELLS YOU, They are the most dishonest people I know of, especially builders of subdivisions.
Moral of the story, NEVER build in an HOA.
Don't live where you're packed in like sardines, never buy a place that involves a HOA.
Overpriced homes on DINKY lots. NO thanks.
I would never buy in a HOA it's just a nightmare if you do.
As a builder I've seen 3 surveys that do NOT agree where the property line is
When you want to build a fence it is on you to ensure that the property line is known. That means you need to go to the county, get a copy of the subdivision map and find property corners that should be there by law (in most states) in a new subdivision. These should have an identifiable cap on them to tell you who set it. The rebar shown looks like it was put in to pull a string line. A rebar without a cap is unknown. Always, always have a surveyor come over and look over your place before you build a 10k fence. Bummer deal.
yep, that rebar is fakery. you can't dig a posthole and set a post directly against the rebar. it was added after the post was set.
Yup…
As a Realtor and former Professional Surveyor, I recommend getting a survey BEFORE you close on your home, particularly in new subdivisions with small lots and large homes jammed on them.
You may need to get permission from your neighbor to put your ladder on their property to be able to get to clean your gutters or paint the second floor windows.
Yeah, new subdivisions are ALL ABOUT MAKING MONEY for the builder...JAMMED INTO a SMALL LOT. NO thanks. Have lived on a rural acreage for DECADES. NOT gonna happen.
ALWAYS call a licensed professional Surveyor BEFORE doing any work whatsoever near your boundaries! Real Estate agents and Construction companies HAVE NO IDEA where your property lines are, do you depend on your mechanic to tell you how to fix your computer??
First thing the hoa does is threaten to fine them. Lol. Welcome to the neighbourhood.
News team saved the day by exposing error.
My dad and friends joined the HoA as board members to bring it down. Play the long game if you stuck in it.
Im glad the News Channel reporter got involved!
Most HOA communities only allow certain builders work.
So I don't think that the news got as much done as some board members probably didn't want a light to be shed on themselves.
The original surveying company would be responsible. All cost should go back to them . Sounds like to me the company didnt have it surveyed and just done what they thought was right. I do construction and have seen this scenario many times. My advice is know where your property is using a trusted and licensed survey company. Also when purchasing the home you should get a legal description of the property. You can check this, obviously not with precise accuracy but close enough to see if it is correct.
This isn’t entirely true. It sounds to me like the first foreman (who she presumes is a surveyor) is not a surveyor. Then the real surveyor showed up and told them where the lot corners were. Also, you can’t just use a legal description to roughly find your property. In this situation, the legal likely says something like “Lot 32 of Smiths Subdivision...” which gives NO distance information. How do you suppose you rough that in? Just call a real surveyor.
@@itchynackers they had said it was "surveyed" the first time and then found it was incorrect when the second surveyors came out. I would assume the first one was not done by an actual surveyor but probably done by the contractor. Of course this is an assumption but I say this because even though there are always very small discrepancies in points I have never seen differences in feet. Locally when a new subdivision is put in, the lots are surveyed and marked not sure if it is state or local laws. My guess is the company trying to save a dollar pulled tapes to get the pins and that was as close as they could get. Not sure in all states but illinois the legal description does give you all of the corner pins of your property and is a great thing to help in finding those pins. It does not show easements or anything else for the property. My advice to anyone would be if it wasn't surveyed by a licensed surveyor have it done before you buy the property. I had issues with the city I lived in luckily I had it surveyed with all easements etc.. up to date. I was happy at the end, the city wasn't. If it was done by an actual survey company the first time then the construction company wouldn't have volunteered to make it right, it would be the survey companies responsibility and their insurance would have paid for all costs. Have a great day.
@@mathtime4578 I see where you are getting at. But if it’s a new subdivision it was obviously surveyed before. I assume the contractor didn’t double check where the property corners were since it’s know in new under construction subdivisions to run over the wood stakes that are a inch to a couple inches away from a property corner. Also, the rebar that was shown that they used and assumed was the property corners was definitely not put by the original surveyor. It seemed to be a rebar used to pull a string. The second surveyor most likely found the original corners and staked them out with wood stakes and the contractor knew they messed up.
As a property owner, having to follow city and county, rules and regulations, while being a good neighbor, is all the oversight I will allow! To be additionally burdened by an HOA council, which could at (m)any time(s) be selfishly self-serving and arbitrary, is an oppression I never have, nor ever will subject myself to!
😆
I'm a Brit and I find it strange that a group of residents can form a committee; make rules governing the behaviour of residents; appoint themselves arbiters of all disputes and charge you for membership. Said membership apparently affords little or no rights. Did I miss something here?
@@trevorhoward7682 Often US neighborhoods are built with "amenities" such as playgrounds, golf courses, gardens, water features, pools, clubhouses, polo fields, etc. These community assets require ownership and funding. Also, by example in this case, some people can't seem to finish their homes, like the lawn in question, which is a violation (notice the period to finish the landscaping was 6 months after sale). Muddy, weed infested messes do not help with the neighborhood values. I'll bet there is a similar rule that 12 months after ground is broken the unit has to be ready for occupancy. Nobody wants a semi-abandoned project next door. All this is explained and it's in the contract as you buy a property. People love HOAs because they're beautiful and full of amenities. The next day they're complaining about "rules" or "dues". They need to grow up. Or buy individual property without access to community assets. (btw -- all rules can be changed by a simple member vote)
Wise man. I have learned the hard way and will never go back
EXACTLY. NO, new home for me...especially one, that is JAMMED onto a tiny plot of land. NO THANKS.
Property corner locations are the legal responsibility of the surveyor, thats why they have to turn in a location survey.
I had my property surveyed. It helped me defend against an encroachment attempt by my next door neighbor.
1.) Never buy a house in an HOA community (why do people keep doing this) 2.) If you are a new home owner you need to hire different types of people including a surveyor and not just believe what someone tells you.
1. They are dumb.
2. They are Democrats.
Yup, another HOA, another problem for the homeowners. Never ever ever buy in a hoa....
HOA had nothing to do with the problem but thanks for being a lemming. People like you, the reason this country sucks. Seriously. This thread is filled with lemmings just like you. America, land of idiots.
@@helenholt1161 Helen Holt Oh Helen! Somebody got a thorn in her ass today! You must be the old bag who has a little authority to measure the height of the grass in the HOA front lawns and give out tickets. If you believe living in a HOA is a good thing good for you. You like being told what to do..... fool.
@@unalienable5408 Laughing, I dont live in a HOA. But i can follow a story and not blanket my agenda onto it when it isn't applicable. Get a brain Scarcrow. They are all the rage. Still laughing, at you.
@@helenholt1161 No HOA? Nothing better to do than comment on something you have no idea about.
I'll bet your a traveling gypsy living in an RV or a double wide.
@@helenholt1161 hoa threatened if they did not get the yard 'in order'....there!!! YOU NINNY
Never ever be part of an HOA. You will have a miserable life from that point forward.
Always get your own survey and home inspection even on a new build.
"We are not liable for this issue"
"We're willing to split the cost 50/50"
Conflicting statements. They're liable.
Horton is not a good company. They don’t take responsibility. They’ve had problems before.
This just goes to show you how corrupt contractors can be, it's disgraceful. You can't trust anybody you don't already know in this country.
Rule #1: NEVER purchase a property with an HOA. #2: ALWAYS have a property surveyed before purchasing.
Never ever, ever, ever, ever, ever buy a property in an HOA or POA....... YOU WILL REGRET IT EVENTUALLY.
Why in the hell would you buy a home connected with a pain in the ass HOA anyway ? Doesn't make good sense. Are you so disconnected that you have to have others to tell you how you're going to live and telling you what you're going to do or else? Fuck that shit!!!!!
First mistake is having anything to do with an HOA never subject your rights and freedoms to a group of people who make decisions for you.
Yeah this shit happens my neighbor recently took 90% of my other neighbors yard because she found out it was her property so now my neighbor has nowhere to park his cars
@@robertpeters2741 Do you want some pictures
The beauty of HOA's. Fun never stops. Not only do you buy an overpriced home but you have a deadline to improve your yard or else you're fined lol.
yeah so your neighbor can park their three non running vehicles in their front yard and paint their house purple ... sign me up!
@@wernerfoerster3666 If you shop for the right house in the right area that is not going to happen. It's a strawman argument to justify buying a house and giving control to tyrants.
They just moved in & already the HOA is threatening them with fines. "Dream Home"?
and just t show what a farce it is. if that property remained UNBUILT and UNPURCHASED who would be fined if its not finished in 9 months? no one. it could sit like that for 10 years and no one would pay any fines but the moment you guy it. done in 9 months or fines.
Good job news team
Why would you buy a house in homeowner association.
Those berms were like little English Bulldog mountains (0:25). A couple of runs up and down those and that would be enough exercise for the day.
NEVER buy where there is HOA. Why do companies have to be forced to be honest?
First mistake is buying a home in an HOA. You loose control of your rights as a homeowner.
Do not move into a HOA area!!
That offer of 50/50 is because they’re fully guilty.
This sounds like another reason to never buy a property in a HOA controlled property. This also shows you should have an independent survey of the property before starting work.
I feel sorry for anyone who thinks living right on top of another house to your left and right a "Dream Home".
Democrats usually confuse nightmares with dreaming.
Try living in a city with 200 units in one house than look back at this
@@sebastiangeorge7714 You might try, I'll pass on that kind of horror. Too many employment opportunities out in the countryside.
Plus a lot fewer welfare addicts.
@@bugwar5545 maybe where you live here it is different
@@sebastiangeorge7714 Yep, it is.
So why are you continuing to stay in your little dystopia?
Where’s the volume in this damn clip?
1. This is not about HOA.
2. If they had a surveyors report they are not in the wrong.
3. Then problem arose when we another surveyor disagreed with the original surveyor.
From what little is gleaned from this report the family did nothing wrong, the problem arise with from improper documents.
But fortunately seems like it has been sorted.
But again comments about negative HOA, this had nothing to do with the HOA.
I am a registered land surveyor in texas. their mistake was taking the builder's opinion as gospel. he had no idea what he was talking about. somebody clearly picked up that iron rod and stuck it in the ground where there THOUGHT it was supposed be. dirt berms are never a clear indicator of property lines.
David H. People move property corners all the time and put them where they want them. The builder should have ordered a Final Survey. I have worked for land surveyors who have never found a property corner because it was in thick bushes [etc,] and just taken an iron rod and thrown it in the bushes and marked on the Survey "found 5/8" iron, no ID. Who's going to argue with them.
@@robertpeters2741 that was my point. they didn't do their homework.
Live in a HOA, you going to have HOA problems.
Yet another story about why you NEVER, EVER buy into an HOA.
You think you're done since the builder is taking care of it? HA! This is only round one for, I'm guessing, a 15 round fight with the HOA. Good luck.
The lawsuit lies with the surveyor who made the mistake.
Home owner's contract was with the builder, not the surveyor.
@@exceptionaltalentspc4954 When all else fails, blame the surveyor is a common theme
Anyone that willingly moves into an HOA neighborhood deserves everything that happens to them afterwards.
Under law I believe if it is a recently built home and it is not built correctly, the builder MUST make it right. Either by fixing the house/property line and if unable to do, buy the house at the cost of what the owners paid for it and in some states also give additional 5% payment to the owner for said house that was built incorrectly.
So what I’ve learned from this is do not deal with DR Horton and HOA
Don’t hold your breath waiting for the work to start...
First mistake, you moved into a place that has a homeowners association.
This isn't new. Ivory Homes has done shady crap like this as well. Word of advise, get everything recorded on what they say when building in a new development.
Respect to the builder
Being British, I really don't understand HOA's. 1. Do you have to join? 2. What are the benefits? 3. How can they fine you for NOT doing something to YOUR property?
Never, never, never buy property involving an HOA.
Their 1st mistake was buying in a HOA
Wow, that is some world-class incompetence on the builder's part. Unreal, at least this news report shamed them into fixing the problem
Their problem is not the builder, it’s moving in where there is an HOA governing your property that you own!
I bought a fixed up Florida Bungalow a few years ago. As part of the buying process I had a survey done to confirm the lot size (all before closing).
WTF didn't the HOA go after the builder??? Answer most of the time the predominant builder in the area holds a majority of seats on the HOA board!!!
HOA has nothing, repeat, NOTHING to do with this. It is all on the Home Owner's for not confirming their property lines. Every piece of property I've purchased I've hired a bonded surveyor to confirm the boundaries.
As for dealing with the HOA, it's all about communication. The CC&Rs for the HOA's I've researched allow for variances, waivers, extensions etc. All the home owner has to do is communicate.
As soon as you said DR Horton it was all I needed to hear...
That is why you never buy a hime with a HOA AT ALL.
yeah so your neighbor can park their three non running vehicles in their front yard and paint their house purple ... sign me up!
I don't ever plan to buy a "hime" in a HOA or non-HOA
@@wernerfoerster3666 You forgot the refrigerator and old toilet in the front yard
Their legal team told them to try and trick them into settling for 50% guaranteed 🤣🤣
if your houses don't connect why would you have an HOA? they seem like nothing but trouble
DR Horton built our house and it took over a year and multiple threats of lawsuits to get it finished after we moved in. The builder lied, misrepresented and did really shoddy work.
DR Horton has a bad reputation for their work. There is an entire neighborhood here in San Antonio that had poor foundations and that dangerous Chinese drywall.