The Evocation Blaster Wizard - D&D: Optimized #44
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ส.ค. 2024
- Fireballs, Lightning Bolts, and Nova damage, oh my! If you want to blast large groups of enemies to smithereens with big AOE burst damage, no one does it better than the Evoker. Let's see just how far we can stretch that Area of Effect damage in a single turn...
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/ @dnddeepdive
/ dndoptimized
/ dnddeepdive
/ colbypoulson
Character Concept:(0:00)
Level 1:(8:12)
Levels 2-6:(15:05)
Levels 7-9:(28:51)
Levels 10-13:(37:08)
Levels 14-17:(45:58)
Final Thoughts:(1:00:54)
Math/Graph for this episode: docs.google.com/spreadsheets/...
Master Nova Damage Comparison:
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/...
Thanks to LudicSavant for the amazing DPR calculator! forums.giantitp.com/showthrea...)
Music Credits:
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Angevin 120 loop by Kevin MacLeod is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 license. creativecommons.org/licenses/...
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Artist: incompetech.com/
Celtic Impulse - Celtic by Kevin MacLeod is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 license. creativecommons.org/licenses/...
Source: incompetech.com/music/royalty-...
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Fiddles McGinty by Kevin MacLeod is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 license. creativecommons.org/licenses/...
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Lord of the Land by Kevin MacLeod is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 license. creativecommons.org/licenses/...
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Master of the Feast by Kevin MacLeod is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 license. creativecommons.org/licenses/...
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Artist: incompetech.com/ - บันเทิง
Melf's minute meteors AOE is a 5' radius, so it should be hitting a 10' diameter or a 10' by 10' square, not a 15' by 15'. I know not all GMs are that particular about AOEs, but it really doesn't make sense to measure what is supposed to be the radius around a point from the edges of a 5' square.
Hm. Right, I suppose if I made the explosion point in the middle of a square, the diagonals technically wouldn't get hit as it would be less than half the square that was covered. Good catch.
@@DnDDeepDive When you target AOE spells like that you target the point between 4 squares, not the center of a square, so MMM would only hit the 4 squares around the point chosen. From DMG 251: "Choose an intersection of squares or hexes as the point of origin of an area of effect, then follow its rules as normal. If an area of effect is circular and covers at least half a square, it affects that square."
Circles in dnd are squares! Or is it square in dnd are actually circles!?
(Only apply a if using a grid)
"I like glass cannons!"
"So anyway we're starting with 19 AC..."
I also like just regular cannons!
“We would be doing 69 damage. That’s pretty nice”
Giggity
he said it so naturally
Noice*
Treantmonk: blasting spells aren’t good!
Homelander: haha evocation wizard go brrr
Haha 🤣 hilarious that they both released the same type of video at the same time 🤣 serendipity
@@fuzzysquirrel they also did this with the anti-mage/mage hunter.
For what it’s worth, I’m sure he made his last week’s vid before I posted mine, and I was finishing this when he released his, so while it may look like we’re debating/trolling each other, it’s mostly coincidental :). And also, the reality is we’d probably agree on most of the things we each talk about it, we’re just... highlighting different things 😂
@@DnDDeepDive I feel like he comes to his conclusion with his 8 combats with one short rest as his calculation.
It’s been a funny unintentional back and forth for the past week or so.
"Let's jump into Episode 44: The Evocation Wizard, and at Level 1 our starting class is a Fighter."
Me: lol
I yam what I yam. >.>
I already love the use of Telekinetic. It's one of my favourite new feats because it gives you an option that you can just pull out whenever you want. and you can put it on basically any class and make use of it in one way or another.
ditto. i use it in alot of my builds.
Theory about why this character started fighter: The city requires a period of service to the country, after coming of age. This service for the character at hand was in the form of being a soldier...
Most wizards: damage is okay but to be a full member of the party, utility and support are really where wizards shine.
Critlander: So anyway, I started blasting
wizards aren't really most known for utility and support but for control.
@@TheRobversion1 Support....I agree, but utility I disagree. All those lovely out of combat ritual spells just scream utility......otherwise, how would you classify Tiny Hut?
@@thedude0000 i didnt say they arent good at it. Just saying whats the most common purpose of the wizard.
Most classes can perform all 9 common archetypes to varying degrees of excellence: striker, controller, tank, healer, support, utility, summoner, skill monkey, blaster
@@TheRobversion1 So, I never accused you of saying, "they aren't good at it". Not sure where you got that.
However, I do disagree that wizards arent known for their utility. Control in combat and Utility out-of-combat are the two pillars of a good wizard.
p.s. yes, I'm saying blasting wizards suck...change my mind.
@@thedude0000 i said that because you disageed. In any case i do agree that if i had to pick the top 2 thing a wizard is known for its also utility.
Hmm..i dont know if i'd want to change your mind because while i disagree that wizards suck at blasting, they arent as good at it either unlike sorcerers.
Anyway as far as good wizard blasters, the popular captain magic missile builds (2 fighter, 1 hexblade, evoker x) are very good single target blasters. Whether that build convinces you that they are at least good at blasting as well is up to you.
Colby: taker your favourite 7th level spell
Me: *Notes down mordenkainen's magnficent mansion.*
Nice that you're taking the effort of looking up the average enemy saving throw bonus for a given level!
Bonus points for accuracy! :)
I was looking for an evocation wizard build and this just hits the spot! Thank you! Appreciate all the effort you put into these videos!
I honestly miss the channel being called D&D: O but I’m excited to watch the channel grow. I’ve been here since episode 3 😅 Keep up the great stuff man!
Dragon’s breath is a Touch spell. Throw it on the Ranger’s new pet for tasty, action-efficient goodness.
Don’t forget to cast a cantrip that turn, too.
Try (owl) familiar for strafing fun!
Fun combo, though not OP, dragon's breath+toll the dead. Always a d12 since it was save for half.
@@120588880106 I played a blue dragon sorc and a party member was a varient human twilight cleric w/ an owl familiar. Twinned dragons breath
This is perfect this is the exact character I wanted to build for campaign I'm playing in you just earned my subscription thank you so much.
Thanks and welcome!
You really killed it on the editing this episode! The edits were hilarious
I wish I could take credit but kudos go to my friend Mr. Rogers for editing! :) And yes, he rocked it this week!
Thanks!! It was a fun one to edit.
As Always your videos are top notch! Thank you for this build. Although because of you I have a problem... I want to play more D&D!
Action surge is really good for nova, if you want a smaller dip for your evoker Artificer also gives a lot of good features too. It doesn't slow spell slot progression, gives you some novel spells (guidance, cure wounds), shield prof, medium armor prof and con saving throw prof.
yup. action surge is a staple of any burst/nova builds. and fighter 2 doesn't slow spell slot progression too much imo.
For some reason, most of my 5e Wizards looked/played the same in combat. I think that’s why I enjoyed Bladesinger so much (just because it was different). It’s always good to see a fresh take. I’m hoping Colby put a spin on Evocation Wizard!
would appear that Crawford's weighs in on the cantrip rule is only with relation to spells that are cast with the bonus action, this also made it into the Sage Advice Compendium.
Crawford confirms here.
Question: Can I misty step (bonus), fire bolt (action) and fireball (surge) on same turn? Or need action surge also be a cantrip?
Crawford: In that situation, the Action Surge spell would also need to be a cantrip
Crawford: The rule on bonus action spells pertains to your whole turn, not to a particular action (PH, 202).
PHB p202 Under Casting Times and Bonus Action
You can’t cast another spell during the same turn, except for a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action.
Since Action Surge gives you a whole other action and not a another turn you can certainly cast another spell so long as you did not use a Bonus action spell.
The Sage Advice Compendium also provides clarification:
If you cast a spell, such as healing word, with a bonus action, you can cast another spell with your action, but that other spell must be a cantrip. Keep in mind that this particular limit is specific to spells that use a bonus action. For instance, if you cast a second spell using Action Surge, you aren’t limited to casting a cantrip with it.
i love this man, thank you for the upload i might just use it too
Honestly adding a level of hexblade warlock really boost magic missile and scorching ray by a ton.
In regards to the fighter multiclassing, I think a little bit the same way. What our spells are good for if we're dead or down and we can't cast them. :)
I really like magnify gravity as a 1st level blast, its obviously dm dependant because it’s dunamancy. But it’s slightly less damage than burning hands with 9 vs 10.5 average, with a much bigger area of 16 squares vs 6, a much more reliable damage type and can be cast at range already I find it much better but it also halves everything’s speed which can be super useful. It’s a con save vs a Dex save but low level monsters actually have better Dex saves than con saves
Edit: oops just realised it’s not an evocation spell, still useful to have in your back pocket before lv 10 if there’s no allies in the aoe though
For damage dealing cantrips, I have always liked Chill touch. You give up 1 point of average damage, but you gain the fact that the target can't gain hit points. This choice will be important if you run into trolls later!
I would prefer it if you also gave the average damage per target, which would be especially interesting when you are figuring a different number of targets from different spells, like you did with Melf's minute meteors and fireball.
Fire damage: out of 818 monsters, 73 are immune, 94 have resistance, and 13 are vulnerable.
I would love to see a screen shot of these characters sheet on something like D&D beyond so I can get a better idea of these characters
*"I cast fireball"*
Absolutely Fantastic Build! (Action Surge and Telekinetic are terrific for a nova blaster)
As much as I love Telekinetic for pushing folks into blasts I would however pick Alert at character creation. Going first, and not blasting your party is IMHO more important than shoving a single target into or out. I'd pick up Telekinetic at 12th Wizard pushing Elemental Adept to 16th level Wizard.
The whole point of an Evoker is that you can exclude your allies from your areas of effect. Going first is of course still good, but not nearly as important when you're an Evoker vs any other AoE blaster.
@@eshansingh1 Your party automatically make their saves with Sculpt spell -- they still take half damage. Even half damage isn't nice to inflict on your party.
@@leebarnett2610 no. Read the ability - it explicitly states they take no damage if they otherwise would take half damage. It's way more powerful than Careful Spell, at least for Evocation spells.
@@eshansingh1 ^^^
@@eshansingh1 Crap. Mea Culpa. I was reading Careful Spell. Thanks for correcting me!
You didn't even bring up the best part of dragon's breath - you can cast it on allies, and its an "attack" action that familiars can take!
not just familiars, but find steeds, tiny servants, animated dead, steel defender, homunculus and primal companion too!
@@TheRobversion1 those options are all fairly expensive for a wizard to get though
@@adamkaris well not all. The artificers stuff can be gotten with minimal investment (and not have to be MAD). Animate dead is from the necromacer. Tiny servant is on the wizard spell list.
@JimmyK First, no, the only way to cast two leveled spells in the same turn is having two actions via action surge, or casting a reaction plus an action or bonus action. Second, you're not recasting the spell, just repeating it's effect of using the elemental breath weapon. The spell is activated with a spell slot, and while you maintain the concentration, you have it's breath weapon as an option.
@JimmyK no, because you are casting dragon's breath using a bonus action on your turn. The rules for casting specifically prohibit the casting of a leveled spell with an action, and a leveled spell with a bonus action on the same turn. What would be legal is, for example, casting dragon's breath on your familiar, taking the dodge action or casting a cantrip with your action, and then the familiar unleashing it's breath weapon.
I've been wanting to make a muscle wizard so I planned on two levels fighter then x evocation wizard, running in fireballing at close range, action surging and doing it again!
You are too handsome to say "dearly beloved" at the beginning of a video. Great content as always!
ha ha! Thanks :)
Ah Trogdor references. Brings me back to the early 2000's
I miss Homestar Runner so much.
how do you calculate the damage for aoe attacks? if I didn't include saves its easy, but with saves it starts to get more complicated. At first I thought it was average damage*percent to fail * number of opponents, but with half save damage and everything else included it changes . How do you go about doing this?
So what you are saying is that I as the dm should give my evocation wizards a magic item that grants them Action Surge.
Yes... Wait! NO!
Give it to all your players
Made a bugbear one (only at 4th level right now) and love it I can get an attack before the enemies, for numerous enemies use magic missile spread between three targets, plus 2d6 on each target. if more action surge repeat. If less and more powerful enemies use another spell. Our DM gives everyone 1 free feat at 1st level, so took medium armor master for a 20 AC and still retain the ability to stealth.
Thank you for the Trogdor reference!
And the Trogdor comes in the niiiiiiiiiight!
I am a simple man, I want to summon a massive dragon, so I like Illusory Dragon. I really like Illusory Dragon when it is paired with Illusion School Wizard since I think that you could change the nature of the illusion(using normal parameters) so I would argue that you could change up the damage type.
how do you calculate the saving throws during your math? I'm writing a program to do this for fun, but I struggle at math. Do the same as attack damage, % to hit * average damage but instead calculate % to fail * average damage? or would that be wrong? and how do you calculate your half damage saves? do the opposite then divide the average damage of success by half? then add
Colby looks like Liam O'brien prove me wrong. Also 12:00 "Mage hand can come in HANDY" I see what you did there ;)
I tried a nova sorc build (divine soul) with hex (feytouched) and scorching ray for amazing single target damage. it was glorious and scaled pretty well (+10.5 dmg / spell level). For comparison, hex + scorching ray (6th level) deals 73.5 dmg on average if all hit while disintegrate deals 75. So you get that scaling throughout your campaign and can pick useful/support/utility spells for your limited spells prepared/know. Also shout out to twinning guiding bolt, inflict wounds, and cure wounds. at low levels, twinned guiding bolt at level 1 deals 8d6 damage... that's the same as fireball on a single enemy....
yup scorching ray is awesome. i've done 120 average dmg at level 10 with my shadow sorc build and 112 at level 10 with my efreeti lock build.
I'm building 3 characters for an upcoming campaign. Not sure which I'm gonna use yet. This inspired me to make one of them a blaster. The others are an unarmed fighter and a support bard, all inspired by you
If dm doesn’t allow custom lineage what race should I pick
Variant Human! ;)
I'd love to have an evoker with sculpted, sickening radiance and several holds. Biggest boss will be down in 6 rounds for sure (but will likely be done much sooner). Such a fun build though.
solo sickening radiance can be done in 2 rounds (assuming enemy fails all their saves). with allies it can be done in 1 round. based on experience though, enemies will make their saves once in a while (especially before you get the disadvantage on all saves exhaustion) so in practice it takes about 3 rounds solo.
What do you think about, a bladesinger with 3lvs on fighter to get echo knight ??
Colby: ...would be 69 damage total.
The 12-year old in me: Nice.
Colby: That's pretty nice.
😂
Thunderwave is a FIRST-LEVEL Evocation spell, not a cantrip. Did you perhaps mean ThunderCLAP?
Also: the nice thing about Magic Missile isn't necessarily the amount of damage you can do with it; it's forcing three separate concentration checks on spellcasters, even when cast as a first-level spell. I'd keep one of these in my back pocket just for that. ;) It's basically a first-level Dispel Magic.
yes.
Elemental adept also has a nice small boost that any 1 rolls become a 2 so that might not add all that much but it will double the minimum damage you deal effectively which if you have lot lot dice to roll can be a nice little boost.
Following along with the build guide, at level 3 you keep referring to Thunderwave as a cantrip. You do mean ThunderCLAP, correct? Do you suggest taking both?
I think I'm going to go with the dawn and sunburst option, be a bit like Gandalf, he uses a lot of light spells.
9:36 I mean, you can get the armor bonuses by going dwarf, or tortle, or lower armor bonuses by going something like dragonborn, etc. Also fighting style - blind fighting - criminally unmentioned. You can't blast what you can't see, which counts for enemies as well as yourself.
One thing I haven't heard you mention in the CON vs DEX save comparison for blasting spells, is that CON is nice when the targets are evasive and can zero out damage on a DEX save.
Cool idea taking 2 levels of fighter to cast multiple blast spells in one turn. I think I would prefer to take 5 levels of wizard first just to get fireball asap, because that's the whole reason I am playing an evocation wizard, and 5th level is when fireball is at it's best.
Personally, I would not recommend thunderclap as a cantrip. Generally not a good idea to be surrounded by multiple enemies as a wizard. My choice would be to take Fire Bolt for empowered evocation, but if you want to have the option of hitting multiple enemies, acid splash is a thing.
Here are some of the spells I enjoyed while playing an evocation wizard to 14th level that you didn't already mention: Freezing sphere (6th lvl) is a 60ft radius, effectively letting you hit every single enemy in the fight. Magic missile, for single target damage w/ empowered evocation. Sickening radiance (4th lvl) can be good if you have allies that can knock enemies into the effect, or can grapple enemies inside it. Vitriolic sphere provides a different damage type option with same AOE as fireball. Crown of Stars (7th lvl) for sustained single target damage.
you can replicate fireballs dmg easily by action surging 2nd level spells: upcasted thunderwave, shatter, agnazzar's scorcher and upcasted burning hands. the only issue really with taking 2 fighter is less spell slots and the aoe of the fireball (if your DM likes to play in open environments with enemies spread out).
agreed on thunderclap. not a fan of freezing sphere. i'd pick contingency at 6th. magic missile is excellent with empowered evocation. sickening radiance is so underrated. most people forget that if they fail that save 6x (and you can trigger that save multiple times in a round by pushing/pulling enemies in the aoe) that it equals death with no regard for hp. crown of stars is indeed great. vitriolic sphere is actually much better at 4th level than an upcasted fireball. its 9d6 vs. 10d4 + 5d4.
@@TheRobversion1 Sure, two 2nd lvl burning hands does the "same" damage as a fireball, but you can't really compare the two. 20ft radius is 64 squares on the grid compared to ~7 for burning hands. Area of effect is by far the most important factor when doing AOE damage (obviously). This is why I recommend freezing sphere as an option. 60ft radius is 576 squares. There are fights where having this size of a blast will come in handy, and nothing up to this level comes close to that size.
@@sovelis7727yeah i did note the aoe issue. Though shatter has decent aoe.
Yeah i just never found i needed the aoe of freezing sphere (plus contingency is awesome). I guess if your combat involve lots of big maps then its worth it. For me, i'd rather use lower levelled spells if i needed aoe and use contingency at 6th. Plus my dm, generally likes constrained environments with pillars, environmental hazards, tight spaces, elevations, etc so that big an aoe doesnt matter as much.
@@TheRobversion1 contingency is awesome and definitely a better spell overall. Certainly no question about that. Yeah if you don't need the bigger area, there is no need for freezing sphere
I'd absolutely love to see a sustained damage build with this, especially since I believe RAW the level 14 feature applies to all damage rolls
Sometimes the simple options are some of the best
Super cool build! Where can I find the doc with the build? Is there one? :)
Oh man. Thanks for this. I've been scratching my head trying to figure out how to make a Red Mage(Final Fantasy) themed build. I couldn't find a way to turn the Sorcerer into a partially viable melee fighter for when they run out of spell slots.
booming blade.
@@TheRobversion1 The damage isn't the problem. The survivability is. (I don't like Draconic nor does it make sense for a Red Mage to be one.)
@@AnoNYmous-bz2ef i dont like draconic either. Well i never found survival to be an issue in 5e. Its just a question for me of whether you can deal enough dmg to be an effective striker. are you playing with competent controllers? Maybe you feel this way because you arent playing with competent controllers?
Or did you mean you wanted to make a tank when you said melee?
@@AnoNYmous-bz2ef Tough feat? If AC is the problem maybe Eldritch Initiate: Mage Armor?
Lol. i wonder what Treantmonk will say about this. haha.
btw the recap for Aneria is a great idea.
and yes agreed on starting fighter and multiclassing is fun. that's the way to go imo for any build. any build can make use of a fighter 2 dip.
regarding aoe blasting, i'd personally prefer aoe control unless the aoe blast spell is also good single target dmg. if the aoe spell isnt taking out the bbeg along with the minions, then tactically it's better to just control everyone 1st or use better single target blasts.
IMO going well balanced is inefficient. that's what your party members are for. versatility isn't essential in 5e. hyperfocus and being excellent in one thing brings more benefit to your party/improves the party's performance.
True, the recaps are worth watching.
Woah! What is this wizardry @1:24??? You make the blanket appear on the left side of the screen without us even realizing you were casting a spell!
Prestidigitation!!!
Is using Action Surge to combine Mind Sliver and a Saving throw Spell (like Fireball) worth it, or is it better to cast 2 Fireballs?
I think it all depends on the likelihood of them making their save, but generally two fireballs is probably better, especially if there are multiple targets :)
@@DnDDeepDive Okay.
a more interesting combo with action surge is:
evard's black tentacles + fireball
black tentacles will deal dmg (not as much s fireball, 3d6 but it's sustained) and create difficult terrain. however, the mathematical kicker here, is it'll apply the restrained condition. the restrained condition will impose disadvantage for dex saving throws for your action surged fireball (most likely resulting in a fail) that this combo warrants consideration for blasting over just casting 2 fireballs.
to illustrate:
evards 3d6 (+3d6 sustained) + 8d6 (most likely failed save fireball)
vs.
fireball 8d6 (failed save) + 4d6 fireball (made save)
2 fireballs will still be better burst wise but once you get to a 2nd instance of dealing evard's dmg, it now exceeds 2 fireballs (plus it can assist in making the fireball you cast on turn 2 harder to save against).
Your videos are amazing as always!
Question for you though. Take a look at Vitriolic Sphere. It is a 4th level evocation Wizard spell from Xanathar's that has a 20 foot radius and its duration is instantaneous. If you upcast it to a 5th level spell, on a failed Dex save, it does 12d4 acid damage and it does 5d4 acid damage at the end of the target's next turn. If you overchannel Vitriolic Sphere, does both the 12d4 and 5d4 acid damage get the max damage benefit? Or just the 12d4?
Been loving Tales of Aneria! Looking forward to the next session!
Thanks! I’ve though about Vitriolic sphere quite a bit. The damage is nice, but for this build, focused on burst I wanted to get things that did all of their damage instantly, so as to not give them a chance to act :).
tbh i can see it being interpreted 2 ways:
1. it says "when you cast" so it can only be the dmg dealt during your turn.
2. it also says " you can deal maximum dmg with that spell" and the secondary dmg is still part of the spell's dmg.
I'd rule it as the 2nd one. this is tier 3 high level stuff. won't be a big difference maker as enemy's hp scale rapidly at these levels as more higher CR monsters are largh/huge (which takes up more space in the vitriolic sphere anyway). Adding 7.5 secondary dmg isn't OP.
08:08 OR...you get good initiative and the first round is where you lay down the control/hurt/...as applicable.
I recommend chronurgy or war magic with gift of alacrity.
But alert/weapon of warning/...are decent alternatives.
lvl 4 war school:
if I roll average, i'm at 21 initiative. (1d20+1d8+3 dex mod+4 int mod)
a nat 1 is 10, and a nat 20 is 35 initiative.
(35 is of course a little crazy but we're looking for percentages guaranteed first.)
2nd point:
Arcane abeyance and giving the bead to you familiar AND multiclassing fighter means 3 fireballs (or other flavour) per round.
Resets on short rest, though you do lose the empowered rolling.
For an in between step in terms of the fighter levels versus pure Wizard, is a level of Artificer worthwhile? Doesn’t slow down spell slot progression while still getting medium armor and shield prof as well as CON save proficiency
Worth a consideration - I feel like missing out on Action surge really lessens the burst capability, but it doesn't make the build not-viable :).
imo if you aren't going artificer 2 for infusions then don't bother. fighter 2 is better with action surge as colby said. maybe even then i'd also still take fighter 2. it's just that infusions access makes it worth considering (and again you don't really lose spell slots at level 2 artificer as you can possibly get 2 level 1 slots with proper infusion selection).
as for the fighter option, losing spell slot progression isn't a big deal either. action surge is essentially contingency as a resuable 2nd level ability. that's a 6th level slot. the only time i wouldn't consider fighter 2 is if i'm starting the campaign at level 13-14 and this is because simulacrum out of the gate is better than action surge. any levels played before that or any levels played after that, action surge is better than any spell slot/known progression you can get.
plus this is a burst build. 90% of burst builds out there will have fighter 2 as action surge is what makes it a burst build. burst is all about extra action economy. there are very few of those out there aside from summons: quickened spell, spell storing item, action surge, simulacrum and wish are probably all of it.
Could we do a Master of Elements Wizard? (The Order of Scribes wizard can change the type from spells they know, turning a Fireball into cold, acid, force, or even magical bludgeoning/slashing/piercing) (OoS is said to multiclass quite well with Tempest clerics)
Definitely have the build on my "to do" list :)
sorcs with transmute spelll metamagic maximizes the tempest cleric better.
@@TheRobversion1 I mean sure, but I just want someone to use the OoS for something (not many info on the internet on what spells to get)
I think Simulacrum would do wonders with this build. Considering you'll be character level 15 when you get access to level 7 spells, costly material component should not be a problem. Simulacrum takes its turn immidiately after the wizard who created it, so it can just mirror whatever you did for doubling the effect. Also, during long adventuring days, doubling your spell slots would also address the problem of spell slots depleting too fast.
yup. simulacrum is OP. aside from wish, it's arguably the most powerful spell in the game.
chronomancer can cast 2 spells if their familiar uses their mote
Have you considered using a Simulacrum for something like this? It would have it's own use of overchannel and action surge. So you could basically double all your potential damage.
I never really get into simulacrum stuff. I talk about it one episode, but can't remember which, but it's basically to say "yes, this could be super powerful IF you have a bunch of snow and money and time to build one and can ensure that it doesn't die OR you have a wish spell," but I guess I generally steer clear from that kind of thing in my builds because there's a lot of "ifs" there that I don't necessarily feel like I can just assume every character will be able to do, ya know?
@@DnDDeepDive Fair point, it's not exactly a consistent thing. I got the idea off of reading a post where someone had a 14 evocation wizard/2 fighter/3 assassin rogue. They said they used they used a simulacrum on a surprise round to cast steel wind strike 4 times for double max damage, at double range because of spell sniper feat. Since it has an attack roll as part of the spell, the feat and assassin levels give 60ft radius and auto crits. Max 5 targets for casting though. Sounded like a fun combination though.
I think that melfs minute meteors only hit a 2 by 2 squares area. The reason is that I think when you choose a point, it means choosing a vertice on the grid (where four squares meet)
Right - just pinned a comment about this - good catch.
Thanks!
Hey thanks! :)
Any thoughts om the gunslinger subclass?(CR version).
I think itd be cool to make an Assasin Rogue 13/Gunslinger Fighter 5/ Grave Cleric 2
On the list!
@@DnDDeepDive excited to see it! look at the gunner and firearm specialist feats. Gunner is by far the most broken of the two imo, it also allows you to be a gunslinger without ever going gunslinger. Opening up some interesting builds that can work off that massive 2d12 damage that bad news does
@@Jacob-sb3su artificers can use firearms too. i woudn't say 2d12 is massive as casters can simply beat this with a 3rd level spell.
with that said, i'd love to see a gunner type build too. doesn't have to be a gunslinger.
One point for not multiclassing is that some of us play with DM:s that aren't very cool with it. We're a group all new players, enough to keep track of without multiclassing hehe
Meteor Swarm was called for, and Meteor Swarm was delivered. 20d6 fire + 20d6 bludgeoning damage will take the wind out of just about any armies sails! Go! Go! Evoker Wizard!
edit: posted this before I watched the vid and saw you took two levels of fighter (no 9th level spells). Would still get Meteor Swarm, but not until 19 which is beyond the scope of these builds.
to be fair, he stil gets access to it theoretically and tbh any 9th level spell is usually out of scope of this builds so meteor swarm doesnt even matter practically. 90+% of tables dont play tier 4. and even if he did, he'd probably take wish anyway.
For a non aoe burst evocation wizard would hexblade/fighter/wizard using hexblades curse, magic missle and action surge be comparable or would it just fall flat?
Ah, the Nuclear option. I have it on my to do list, just to see how it compares, mostly, but I'm sure the single-target damage would be quite strong.
@@DnDDeepDive seems like it would be good, but waiting till level 13 for the level 10 evoker ability is rough lol
@@keeblercon9786 indeed!
TROGDOR!!!! Burninating the countryside, burninating the peasants. Burninating the people in the THATCH ROOF COTTAGES!
off topic but, would you say a raven can use mimicry to say a command word for a magic item?
Will have to add to my future "quick rulings" questions for my DMs :). *I* would allow it, but I'm not a DM! :P
@@ericpeterson8732 it was more to have them use a spellwrought tattoo to give the familiar a familiar, and that familiar a familiar, etc.
Not saying you have to I just think it would be interesting to see how you would handle optimising a single class character. When I plan out characters more often than not it is a single class so I would find that really interesting to see what you can do with that.
Oh I've done several, it's just not my usual go to. See Bladesinger, Death Cleric, Ranged Fighter, Hexblade, Bear Totem Barbarian, some of the builds in the Team-Up episodes, etc. etc.
@@DnDDeepDive Cool, may check them out.
Quick Note: the necrotic damage taken due to overchanneling ignores resistances and immunities.
There is also the Brooch of Shielding that just nullifies magic missile and would half the damage from disintegrate.
Small correction. Thunderwave is a 1st level spell not a cantrip so you can ignore 2 allies.😊
I meant to say Thunderclap >.>
39:40 Sculpt spell does not protect the wizard from its own spells. It says other creatures.
It specifically says “When you cast an evocation spell that affects other creatures that you can see, you can choose a number of them equal to 1 + the spell's level.”
yup. i think he was confusing it with careful spell metamagic.
Truth!
Wow I missed that and it completely ruins it for me. I was picturing a mad mage in melee range that crushes a fireball in his hand and detonates a fireball on himself
@@Almighty_Mage i accidentally did this with a melee wild magic sorc. I was casting a quickened spell then I rolled on the wild magic surged table and casted a 3rd level fireball on myself. Thankfully i didnt have allies around and i just hit a bunch of enemies and myself. Then i reacted with an absorb elements to negate most of the dmg. Since i casted another 1st level spell, i was forced to roll again on the surge table. I got the 4d10 lightning dmg to 3 creatures of my choice. Then i used my action to booming blade + absorb elements dmg one of the enemies that was left standing. Good times. ;)
probably mentioned elsewhere, but fear imposes disadvantage on ability checks. If your enemies fail their initial save against illusory dragon, they aren't likely to "investigate" it successfully, as investigate is an ability check.
Also re: overchannel - have you considered you should instead be playing a half orc for this build, because of the built-in death ward? Otherwise get a friendly cleric to cast death ward on you. Imagine playing a half orc with Death Ward on - just go back to back to back overchannels and don't care.
If you're going to dip Fighter for armor and con saves, go Artificer instead. Medium armor and shields is not bad when you have the Shield spell and DEX > STR. Also Artificer 1 doesn't delay spell slot progression because it's a half caster that rounds up when multiclassing.
But we were mostly going Fighter for Action Surge :)
You seemed pretty dismissive of the hexblade dip. But 1 level of Hexblade allows you to add Prof bonus to Magic Missle, and with the ability to action surge you can delete a boss in one turn. IF they TRY to cast shield, merely counterspell. Since they've already used their reaction to shield they can't counter your counter unless they have mage backup. If you burn your 2 highest level slots on Magic Missile, you will one round most standard bosses. IMO that is a fantastic back pocket trump card for a character that defaults to AoE.
For the record Empowered Evocation + Overchannel on a 5th level magic missile would be 7darts *(4+1+5) = 70, and if you added a hexblade dip, you'd be looking at 112 damage per 5th level slot. For a total burst of 224 damage as a single target opening burst. This is also guaranteed damage. No save, no attack roll. If you have a pocket healer to drop a 6th level Heal on you... it might be something to consider.
Sound pretty strong. Maybe that will show up in his single target damage build?
Not dismissive, just not what I wanted to focus on for this build. Definitely a powerful consideration.
I wonder How you added 28 to 70 and ended with a 100+result.
@@Fr4nZeR 7 bolts * 6 proficiency = 42. 42+70 = 112. Last I checked. You'd need to be level 17 overall which means your proficiency bonus would be +6.
@@Fr4nZeR I'm not sure where you got 28 from.
Man I have to say, you get very similar results with tempest cleric/sorcerer, it's once per short rest (catnap helps a lot). A maximized spell, is almost the same as casting it twice, but you use less slots, you get better spellslots progression and some cool cleric spells and rituals. The sorcerer points can be used to transmute spells, quicken (maybe mindsliver for Save debuff), heighten or careful. You get all the armor from cleric, and you get con save. And for me the best part is to simply not pass to 2 lvls as a no spellcaster class. Anyway that's my tip. Go lightning 😁😁⚡⚡
For damage, absolutely. The biggest draw, for me, to Evoker was being able to sculpt the spells. It's so very common to want to cast a fireball into the middle of a fight so you can hit every enemy, but instead have to place it at the edge of the battle so it blasts forward and just hits two or three enemies but not all of them so you can keep your friends safe. That said, I do appreciate the Tempest Cleric + Sorc and end up going that route in the very next episode after this one that I just released a couple days ago :).
@@DnDDeepDive Cool! I'll check it out!
while going tempest+sorc is indeed better, losing out on the 2 fighter is suboptimal. action surge has the power level of a 6th level spell (a more resuable contingency). i don't think of losing caster levels when i dip fighter 2. i think i'm gaining contingency, a fighting style (perhaps superior technique: ambush which is a poor man's version of gift of alacrity) and a weaker version of healing word (2nd wind). the ideal build is actually going fighter 2, tempest 2-6 and sorc 3+ until you get the single target and aoe spell of choice. for example, at level 13 you can be fighter 2, tempest 6, sorc 5 and throw out 2 maximized upcasted lightning balls on round 1 and pretty much clean the board of any minions or humanoid bbegs. if the minions die after the 1st lightning ball, then the action surge can be an upcasted lightning rays so you can either kill or severely weaken the bbeg for your allies to finish off.
@@TheRobversion1 Very good Idea! But the Channel divinity only works with one spell, so maybe one maximized cone of lightining is better. And for single dmg a simple witch Bolt goes a long way. Or maybe fish for crit. Maximized critical hurts so bad 😆
@@SammaelVanir take note i said tempest 6. which means you have 2 channel divinity per short rest. so you can use both in the same turn. gaining paladin 3 later on will give you a 3rd use (but i personally wouldn;t go for it as my dm allows a max of 3 multiclass only).
witch bolt is inferior single target wise to scorching ray. if its single target, going the crit route is indeed more efficient. you can go hold + lightning ray.
while cone of cold does more dmg at 5th than fireball (4 more points if failed save and maximized) it is a con save so do factor that in.
18:55 and 21:30 You mean Thunderclap I'm pretty sure, not Thunderwave, Thunderwave is a L1 spell.
Too many Thunders! :P
How does this compare to a draconic sorcerer with empower spell, and a combo of a second turn with a sun beam active and do: sunbeam - action surge - sunbeam - quicken spell - fireball ?
Pretty comparable at 13 (the earliest you could do this combo). Draconic wouldn't benefit the Sunbeam damage, the Con save is a bummer, and it might be tougher to get lots of targets in a line, but assuming you could, it's pretty potent.
@@DnDDeepDive thank you!
you cant quicken a spell then cast a levelled spell on the same turn.
with that said, draconic sorcs make better aoe blasters than evokers before the evoker gets overchannel as sorcs have access to empowered spell and elemental affinity. both available at lower levels. evokers have to wait until empowered evocation.
@@TheRobversion1 that’s why I said this combo is on the second turn. On the first turn you cast sunbeam, so on the second turn, sunbeam is already active, and you just create a new line of radiance as your action but you are not really casting a spell, sunbeam has a concentration component. So, that why after the seconds turn you can Recreate a new line of radiance - action surge - second line of radiance and then quicken a fireball or what ever spell you want as a bonus action. This is a classic sorc combo, and it’s why sorcs are such good blasters.
@@kodry9235 oh i agree that sorc are good blasters. better than wizards. the fact that you mentioned it was second turn just didn't register with me. my bad.
The sad part is that all of this is pretty much power crept by the new UA Classroom of Chaos classes, which are all completely combat oriented with very strong internal synergies
Was just about to comment about treantmonks video and saw many beat me to it.. what rly interests me is his graphs that show scalibg dmg vs monster hp. It does make sense that later game fights should take longer, so im sort of conflicted about the conclusions to draw from that. Its only rly proper if compared to the scaling of range/melee/not blaster spells dmg :)
Right - our damage vs. enemy hp definitely doesn't keep up. That said, it's important to keep in mind (I think) that we're doing damage to *multiple* enemies at once. Even though, when we hit level 15 or whatever we might not be one-shotting a room full of Orcs like we did at level 5, it doesn't mean that applying a *lot* of damage to a *lot* of enemies doesn't have any value. And for us especially, if we can cast two big spells (with a concentration AOE to boot), then maybe we *can* still clear the room once in awhile.
Of course you could still argue that you/your party might be better off with a Wall of Force etc. and that very well might be the case, depending on the situation, but ... this is a fun option :).
@@DnDDeepDive agreed. i think what people don't factor in treantmonk's graphs are 2 things:
1.you aren't casting the spells "nude" as an optimizer. there's usually an on-hit modifier like empowered evocation for save spells or spirit shroud + steel wind strike.
2. he's not taking into account action surge or upcasting.
granted i do agree that aoe spells isn't as easy to nova scale up as single target spells to match enemy hp at higher tiers but it will still put them close to dead for your allies to mop up. they will also still wipe minions or humanoid bbegs (like drow prieststess) out reliably. don't discount what you're presented. chris has a very heavy control bias and tends to never factor in ways to optimize blast dmg.
the conclusion you can draw from that are accurate as long as you're playing an un-optimized usually straight class caster, single target spells are better than aoe spells for bbegs that arent humanoid and that chris has a heavy control bias.
any optimizer worth his salt like Colby, would actually find ways to bump that dmg to make blasts spells useful (especially as burst/nova).
Good to see your comments, ill clarify what i ment. If aoe nova dmg scaled better in relation to monster hp, then what would be the point of progressing to ”harder” battles. Every battle would feel as hard or as threatening at a high level encounter as it did at low lvl. Later game combat should (in my opinion) last longer, allowing spellcasters to gear up to their big dmg or cast their cool controll spell or allow fighters/barb type characters to utilize their range of skills, be the beast in the frontlines who takes 50-100 dmg and just shrugs it off and keep trucking, this gives a feeling of epicness. If dmg scaled with monster hp then those fight would be 2-3 rounds long aswell, and all the skills, spells, feats you collected slong the way would just sit unused. Ofc its designed so that when you hit lvl 5 and get your big fireball, your extra attack etc its a reward, you should feel powerfull for a while and then start working towards the next power spike.
While aoe scales well early levels it makes sense since early you dont have as many options, you dont have neither the spellslots or frontline hp/ac to endure longer fights. After a while it would only result in cantrips again and again. So thats why i think its a bit odd to compare aoe nova dmg, or any dmg for that matter, to monster hp, because i think it would by design make sense that it gets outpaced once you leace lvl 5 behind. Dmg should be compared to other dmg, compare nova aoe to nova single target to be abel to decide what you want to prioritize, since only then do you see how effective one or the other is. Or rounds to achieve a certain dmg output (what build does on average reach 150 dmg in the least amount of turns with setup etc). Then ofc you can factor in monster hp at your level to get a understanding on if 5 extra dmg on singletarget actually makes a difference.
Writing on my phone so sorry for formating/spelling
Totally forgot, also to my point why compare something you can affect, like how you chose to make your damage output, to something you cant affect as in monster hp. Compare things you are abel to affect with each other, and then meassure them against the ”goal” that is monster hp. What comes to mind is the example of WoW raids. All dmg scales terribly all of a sudden compared to boss HP, and you dont ever meassure dmg compared to boss hp, but compared to other dps builds/classes. :)
You referenced Trogdor.. I really enjoyed your channel before... But now, I feel like we should be friends. Lol
/high five!
What if we also added Grave Cleric's Channel Divinity: Path to the Grave to the mix to make our target vulnerable to all damage?
It's nice to be home.😊
Sorry I missed it. Where did we pick up telekinesis on this?
He chose the Custom Lineage Race and took it as his starting Feat
@@gamina8674 ^^^
@@DnDDeepDive Dont worry im not here to mention Fog Cloud :P
Get Wish, wish that you are immune to necrotic damage, boom overchannel EVERY SINGLE SPELL! Or I think it was the Husk Warlock spell in that last video that made you immune to necrotic damage. Just two options I am sure people here prolly have more ways to negate necrotic damage.
As opposed to using the average savings throw it would probably be more accurate to use the mode of the savings throw.
Sickening radiance is an overlooked 4th lvl evocation spell.
yup. with a forced move build and/or party members with forced movement, it's doable to 1 round kill the bbeg with this. i've done a 2 round kill solo with this. my only issue with it to be honest is it's a con save.
As a person that is completely incapable of not multiclassing I will now add two levels of fighter to every wizard build. Who needs Wish anyways?
Alternatively if you're just looking for the CON profiency and better armor to boot you could just put one level in Artificer. Buuuut action surge is just too good to pass up. I wish some spellcasters could cast two spells in one turn
agreed. most tables don't play into wish levels. all of my builds (theorycrafted/played about 30+ of them) start as 2 levels of fighter. but to be fair my table almost never plays into tier 4 and the few times we did our DM banned wish and simulacrum (since these were broken, braindead choices) so there was no point really not to multilclass.
@@snazzyfeathers you can do the dissonant whispers + warcaster combo if you really don't want action surge. but yeah it's too good to pass up. artificer doen't really bring much to the table with that dip. you could just start sorc if you really wanted the con prof and wanted to avoid multiclassing for actual power stuff like action surge.
Wish is a 9th lvl spell. You get that at 17. You still get wish
Why did music kept going up to 0:30
Cause it wasn't optimized yet
I think Mr. Rogers was just *really* feeling the Metal vibe this week ;)
For some reason the fade out just wasn’t fading like normal. But like the critlander said I was feeling the metal.
Forgot to like this one. Just out of curiosity, instead of stopping at Fighter 2, why not go to 3 and pick up Eldritch Knight? You'd lose that 8th level spell from Wizards, but you'd still get the slot because of the EK. You'd get bonus cantrips and KNOW a few spells without having to prepare them. Plus the magic appearing weapon trick.
What do you think about the Scribes Wizard + Tempest Cleric 2 build? Max damage on one blast spell once per short rest. You can max out a Meteor Swarm once per day and have it deal lightning damage for 240 to four 40’ radius spheres.
Lots of fun stuff to do with scribes and changing up damage types - Tempest Cleric is a great option!
This only partialy works. You would be able to transmute the FIRE damage and maximize that, but the bludgeoning damage would still be 20d6. That is still good, and it works wheras you cant Overchannel a 6th or above (even with upcasting), but its a bit less than 240 per target.
@@Rodrik18 The way I read it (and tried to confirm with people online) is that it changes the damage of the spell to the damage you want...meaning all! But either way! It's still pretty brutal!
@@DnDDeepDive Don't slow down spell levels, and get heavy armor! It's got promise! ;)
@@S1leNtRIP agreed. rodrik must be thinking of transmute spell metamagic from sorc.
Nobody going to talk about how this guy looks exactly like how Caleb Widogast would look as a Scourger?
Ooo, that's a first. I like it! :)
nope. everyone knows him as homelander.
Thunderwave is a first level spell, not a cantrip. You have it confused with the cantrip "Thunderclap". Not a bad melee damage spell for an evocation wizard/fighter, but straight wizards usually want to get out of melee instead of casting a damage cantrip.
Truth!
You know it’s a DDO build when it starts with the class opposite of the intended class ;)