the 917/30 is the greatest car ever made. to build that car today would cost a fortune and a half. it even had hollow titanium screws... you don't see stuff like that.
4:35 is my favorite moment, the can am cars just casually walk away from the f1 gtr. it puts in perspective the mind bending speed of those early 70s monters
@@SuperCrysis92sorry but the fact they have 200 more horse power and less weight combined with the fact the long tail f1 can only barely do 200mph, means it’s doesn’t stand a chance can am mclarens do 200 on hangar straight at Silverstone they are so much faster than an f1 gtr in a straight line
@@garymatthys3605 Let's compare: McLaren F1 GTR - 600HP, 2000lbs, 2000lbs of downforce typical Can-Am car - 650-800HP, 1400-1800lbs, 1500-2000lbs of downforce (it's hard to find data for these) McLaren has modern parts (chassis, brakes, etc.) as an advantage, but Can-Am has power, weight, and maybe downforce as an advantage. Idk about tires, but obviously the F1's original tires were way way better than Can-Am's original tires from the 60s.
@@christianponicki9581 It's hard to compare cars from different eras(and classes to boot), but it's fun to see them actually compete against each other. Top examples of the fastest race cars of their times.
You can have your high tech cars. I'll take the low teck Can Am cars hands down. I don't care how fast these modern GTR cars can go or how they handle. To me the cars of old were 100% more thrilling to watch.
The F1 GTR won it, but it certainly seemed to have its fair amount of trouble doing so. few times in history you could see the fastest production roadcar (power choked by the racing regulations of its time) racing against the unruled CanAm monsters! also worth noting, that the F1 GTR would probably not exist were if not by CanAm, where Bruce McLaren became a fucking legend on the tracks.
I was @ Mosport for Can-Am practice and the race on June 10, 1973 when 917-30 first appeared and was @ the 1972 race when the 917-10 first raced. Both cars were stunning but, as along time F1, prototype road racing fan, I have to say the 917-30 either stopped or moving was a thing of pure beauty, especially when driven by Donahue. It had the pole @ Mosport in 1973 in 1' 14.1". Ronnie Peterson took the Cdn. GP F1 pole @ Mosport in Sept. in 1' 13.697" driving the famous JPS Lotus 72. Peterson was the fastest driver I've ever seen then or since. So lets concede those 2 cars were about the same. Very, very fast. Imagine how disappointed my nostalgia enfused brain was when I discovered the lap record @ Mosport now is 1' 04.094 " in an Audi R10 TDI set in 2008 by Rinaldo Capello. Grrr. Progress.
thanks for the vids ..from New Zealand ,the home of Sir Bruce Mclaren....its amazing to see his cars [ CanAms ] still being driven the way they were built for and not just collecting dust
This must have sounded amazing from trackside, the big banger V8’s and the F1 Almighty V12 howling down the straights. There’s nothing better that hearing & seeing different category of cars with different configuration of engines racing together.
This is rare stuff indeed! Thank you very much to spend some time to get this right with this superb quality! Fantastic to see the 1997 Helsinki winner car is doing well!
If I remember right, Can-Am had 2 rules. The car had to have 2 seats and the body had to cover the wheels. They later legislated out the suspension mounted rear wings and the Chaparral's snow blower powered vacuum assist. The sound of the big block Chevy cars, with an estimated 750-800 HP, would send a shiver right up your spine and make you hair stand up. It was the greatest mind-nlowing sound ever.... you had to be there. We went to almost all of the Can-Am races at Riverside. Go to the vintage races and check it out.
turbo buick Those V8's were monsters. Porsche beat them by taking the 5 liter 917 engine, blowing it out to 5.5 liters and strapping a couple of big ass truck turbochargers on it. I remember reading that the engine stressed that car so much that they actually had to pump the tube frame full of pressurized nitrogen and put sensors on it so the driver could tell if it cracked during the race.
*turbo buick* - I know the story behind banning the Chaparral's vacuum assist but why were the suspension-mounted wings banned? Also, agree about the big block sound. Never heard these cars in person but hearing them in videos gives me shivers. Absolutely nothing before or since sounded like that, unreal.
When comparing videos of vintage racing in the US versus what I've seen in Europe, I get the impression the European versions seems to take it as racing competition as opposed to the US versions which are more like circuit parades. The video footage here looks like an FIA championship sanctioned race with vehicles that could be considered museum valued pieces. It's remarkable to see and such a treat, as motorsports fans like myself that dates back to the original Can-Am series, or the European Interserie championship series, this is great!
Wow, the Bmw S70/3 engine in the McLaren Longtail (1997) sounds a lot better than the Bmw S70/2 engine that's in the McLaren Short Tail (1995-1996). While the S70/2 produces mostly howl, but the S70/3 (Longtail) has that much desired Roar and Growl in the rpm range (mostly heard from on-board, as it simply screams more from outside) I really love the on-board footage for sounds.... Just, I think about the most satisfying Scream/Roar of any GT car ever made. (Yes, I know the Can Am's sounds are very Deep Rumbling, Throaty LAZY V8 style, ... but I like the cleaner Scream of the BMW V12 of the 1990's...). Thanks for the video!
Forgot to mention that I am a big fan of the Manual Sequential gearbox too (But I dislike the modern Paddle Shift - aka fully automatic DSG DCT sequential). Don't think the Manual Sequential will grow out of taste for me :) Dog Gears/ Dog Clutch forever!
aldean29 BMW M8 Prototype BMW X5 LM 1999 BMW V12 LMR Race car Mclaren F1 Mclaren F1 GT All share the same engine except the F1 GT having a different setup in the engine slightly. But they all share the same concept.. V12 engineered by BMW Motorsport. Engines similar is the engine found in the 850CSi which is similar but it's like distant cousin to the S70/2-3. The S58 (E36 M3) has more in common even though it's a Straight 6 engine but BMW engineers were also inventing in the 90s for example BMW had many projects they even made a V16 7 series BMW but the S70/2 was one of the projects that could turn out good so they smashed the B58 together and created the birth of the S70/2-3 V12. And before the Mclaren F1 BMW already had the S70/2 made before Mclaren even demanded for a engine. That engine turned out to be going into the M8 but Mclaren demanded a engine wile testing and BMW stoped the prototype of the M8 as they thought the Mclaren F1 would be better to put the engine. So the M8 had a 550HP engine S70/2 engine. So what BMW did was add more power to satisfy Mclaren even though 550HP was actually what Mclaren wanted in the first place. But BMW decided to bump more power. A fault of the engine was cooling, so much power from N/A engine BMW needed to make a solution which was gold plates. So the Mclaren got the engine and in 1995 the BMW M8 prototypes were recycled (20) of them and only one left now. The engine was so good at racing though they decided to extend the range by putting the engine in race cars that ended up in the S70/3 Mclaren F1 GT and the BMW V12 LMR. They also had a few concepts and project cars after and one of them were the X5 in 1999 that had a s70/2 in it with 550HP
Way back when, I watched a Chevy BB powered Lola run the circuit. That car was an absolute beast as it poured on the hp. It was an 1 hour race and it lapped the field probably 4-5 laps.
@9:15... nice catch. "Just how much is this F1 GTR worth again?" Well, it just sold last month for $5.28 million.. This past year, CanAm Porsche 917/30 & 917/10 sold for $4.4 & $5.5 respectively. Amazing to see all of these rolling museums climbing Eau Rogue.. Great vid!
Steve Fowler I doubt it would have made any difference. The Can Am cars are such slugs in corners, I’d take a bet the McLaren would have had any more trouble. He was getting passed because he was being held up.
@@thethirdman225 Can-Am are not slugs around corners, 800kg on modern race tyres man. They just don't handle like a Group C or GT1 😁 also that Porsche Can-Am might of been quicker than a GT1 car, depending on the track obviously.
@@justanotherlaid-backdude5297 Well, man, I was speaking in comparative terms. That's what this is: a comparison. Man. The McLaren F1 GTR weighs in at more than 1,100 kg and produces about 150 hp less. It also has a much stiffer chassis and more advance suspension design, along with much better brakes. If the Can Am McLaren can't beat it at a track like Spa, there probably aren't many tracks where it could. That's not a criticism of the Can Am car but there is 20 years of developments between them.
Italians make pretty things but I will say a German V-12 in the car that changed everything....Porsche, you are my King, I love you. But McLaren is my Lord forever
@@kierenboimufc5940 It wasn't a V12 that changed everything you are referencing....it was a flat 12. But as little as it is spoken..the Ferrari 512M could give the 917 a run for its money. The Ferrari won the 1970 Sebring race and one one other non-points in 1970. Porsche threw a lot more money into its 917 effort. Ferrari did not, however, the Ferrari proved just as fast as the 917, but reliability was the torn in its side.....if only Ferrari really developed the 512...history may have been a little different.
It says in German that he beat the fastest M8F by 16 seconds after 14 laps. Thats the aero and handling winning over a 200-300 hp advantage. The 917-30 wasn't there though, now that would have been fun to watch, though that was a German flat 12.
Unglaubliches hammer Feld!! ich glaube jeder der hier ein Rennwagen fahren darf war nervöser als ein Formel 1 Fahrer beim Start. Danke für die super Bilder!!
Die CanAm, bzw. Interserie war mit das Beste was der Rennsport je hervorgebracht hat. Ich habe diese Ära Gott sei Dank noch live auf der NOS erleben dürfen.....
I'm surprised at the colossal pace of the CanAm cars, especially from 120mph onwards, as on paper they didn't run much more power than this f1 and ran through a 4 speed manual. Superb! Shame we couldn't see it dice with the Porsche 917.
+Vincent Khazi the s50b32 from e36 m3 evo with eisenmann race exhaust, 284 schricks, mac motoren carbon airbox, low ratio diff sounds more likethe mclaren f1 in fact the mclaren f1 is 2 s50 engines joined to make a v12. i have one .....the e36 with the same mods over 300bhp at the wheels.
The purple M8 of Peter Hoffmann is the same car that that Helmut Kelleners (Ralfs father) drove in the 1970s Interserie, then painted in the blue "Weissberg Tools" livery.
Wow! I love the McLaren alot, but love those CanAm cars even more!! Thats the great stuff you get when you don't over regulate a racing series, cars that 40 years later are still brutally fast and can keep up with and even beat much more modern equipment. I wish there was a unrestricted series like that now! Imagine the cars that would come from that!
I think everyone in the comments section forgets that McLaren F1 was made to be a road car and not a racer… It just happens so that it is so good at racing that it can compete with the cars that were built specifically for racing with no regulations in mind!
Mark Allayban: Shifting early is called: "short shifting". It's quite often quicker around a race track when the driver short shifts as apposed to letting the engine rev out un-necessarily. (depending on track/corner/long straight etc). Plus it sounds to me like this particular F1 GTR has quite closely spaced gears. It can also save fuel & protect the engine/gearbox, especially in a long race.
It's rarely quicker actually, and especially with this car, which gets max power very close to the redline. The main purpose is as you said, to save the engine and transmission.
Yes that's definitely correct, but in the GTR, simple modulation of throttle is probably more useful than short shifting (the gear changes are very aggressive and might make the car unstable if done at the wrong time)
Jackson P. The car seems pretty unstable already; the driver seems to be counter-steering a lot in corners and he doesn't even seem to be driving at 100%.
It all looks pretty ordinary until 9:15 when Kelleners really decides it’s time to drive it. Clearly annoyed at being constantly held up by blocking and being unable to use much better agility, the Group C car that passes him near the pit entrance is the last straw. For all that’s said about how fast the Can Ams are in a straight line, once he gets the bit between his teeth, he has little trouble catching up to the black one and despite repeated blocking, foxes the other driver into a mistake. By the time he gets out of La Source, the M8 is already making good progress towards Eau Rouge but Kelleners is actually with him again by the time they get to the end of the Kemmel straight.
The info says Kellners (F1 GTR) won the race after 14 laps with a lead of 16 seconds, second was Peter Hoffman in a McLaren M8F whos fastest lap was just 1,3 seconds slower.
Amazing to see Can Am cars pull away hard From F1 GTR under acceleration!! These cars have more HP and are a good bit Lighter, but are also 25 to 30 years older
that transmission has to take a beating every time you put it in gear if you can hear I'm getting right back into the peak torque God the lateral G-Force in every gear and must have been astounding that car and its surrounding components is amazing in every form stock car racing
Maybe you should look it up? Watkins Glen 1973 F1: 1:39.657 Ronnie Peterson, Lotus CA: 1:38.848 Mark Donohue, Porsche 917/30 Mosport 1973 F1: 1:13.697 Ronnie Peterson, Lotus CA: 1:14.100 Mark Donohue, Porsche 917/30
clearly from different era's but way cool to see them on track together and actually be able to tell the differences in their strengths. those can-ams are brutal in a straight line and coming out of corners but the brakes and cornering ability of this Mclaren were unmatched. and it held its own down kemmel I think! man I love the GTR!
I'd estimate that there was no difference in the two cars from La Source to Les Combes. I reckon the GTR would be at least as fast through that section as the M8.
@@thethirdman225 I'm fairly certain the GTR would have a much better run out of raidillion. than the m8. the aero and suspension advantage the GTR has would allow much more throttle through the Eau Rouge Raidillion complex. but the brute strength of the old can-ams would probably make up for it down Kimmel. I don't think I'd be against your statement. lol
Thats a Cougar C26 S, from the end of the turbo Group C era. Its kind of amazing that the mclaren can keep up easily to that thing. It is an absolute monster.
@@justanotherlaid-backdude5297 Around 1991 the frontrunning sportscars like Jag 14 were coming out of rules changes that left them with then-current F1 engines, weighing 750kg and with diffuser-extractor wings, and far more efficient aero than any F1 car before or since. Would've given the day's F1 cars a serious challenge on any circuit.
That f1 gtr is one of the greatest race cars and greatest sounding cars ever made. When will the next naturally aspirated v12 road car converted into a race car come. The p1 gtr is great, but it isn't the f1 gtr. Anyone else notice the gt40(s) in the background?
NA V12 race cars derived from road cars may come back with the new Le Mans Hypercar class. While that sounds nice at first it will be a full blown BoP formula so it'll be irrelevant.
Fantastic car! Brazilians know this car from the game Gran Turismo 4. I love to BMW cars. This car won Le Mans in 1995, starting the race in seventh place.
This is a 1997 f1 gtr longtail the longtail has as the name suggests a longer rear end compared to the 96 gtr and the longtail is sequential rather than h-pattern as in the short tail.
would love to see a Jim Hall Chaparral clone running around the track. That white 66 car just glued me to Can-Am in addition to growing up in Indy. Not to mention the 1/24 scale slot car by Cox that an 11 year old kid could actually own.
Love how at first, Ralph is all over the mirrors under braking, no doubt thinking about the more or less priceless car he's driving. Then at Lap 3 he's clearly had enough and he all over that black Can Am in 1/4 of a lap.
@theralfkelleners Ich persönlich finde es mehr als nur "klasse" das sich der Fahrer "himself" zu Wort meldet und uns Eindrücke aus dem Cockpit mitteilt. Und gleichfalls eindrucksvoll finde ich, pardon wenn ich das so offen sage, das die "Jungs" während der ersten Runden sicherlich mit dem gleichen Problem zu kämpfen hatten, nämlich mangelndem Grip... und dennoch einer Technologie die gut ein viertel Jahrhundert intensivster Entwicklung mehr zu bieten hat ABSOLUT Paroli bieten konnten!
Nothing like seeing a driver actually shift the beast. Pure connection. The f1 paddles are stealing the soul from these great cars. In spite of their huge technical advancement. Newer is not always better. From an R8 manual v10 driver.
It just amazes me how the drivers of yesteryear had much more skills. As I'm watching Ralf, I realize, he doesn't have to know how to work a clutch, upshift with the use of two feet (Clutch and gas pedal), he doesn't have to rev match on a downshift (heel and toe) and yet those CAN AM cars are doing all that with 40 year old technology at the same speed. It really makes you appreciate what the drivers from the past could do. I think technology has lessen the skills needed to really drive fast.
This is just a sequential gearbox, not a semi-auto and as you can see he is using the clutch and heel-n-toe on downshifts. Yes, the Can-Am cars are amazing but what is also amazing that a modern racecar derived from a road-car can keep up with cars from the 70s which represented the absolute max engineers could create because the rules in Can-Am were pretty much fully open.
Honda, McLaren engine partner in F1 at the time, didn't want to create an engine for the McLaren roadcar and therefor Gordon Murray looked around and came in contact with engine guru Paul Rosche with whom he had worked before when he was at Brabham which used BMW engines then. Rosche tried to come up with an engine to the specs Murray had set but the engine turned out heavier but more powerful, so Murray was still satisfied. There were zero plan to turn the McLaren F1 into a racecar, but that's what consumers later demanded and when after a few years GT racing became huge thanks to the ACO banning Group C cars at Le Mans BMW saw the opportunity to field a works team using McLaren F1 GTRs and later F1 GTR ´97s, which is the car in this video. The M1 was long outdated in the 90s and the 8 Series is a front engine luxury coupe, so it would've never been competitive in racing.
That purple Can Am is a monster! Barney the Incredible Hulk or what?..XD The last lap it took before going in-car with the F1 sounded like a plane idling overhead. What kind of engine does it run?
oh yeah ! love seeing that old McLaren big banger (with it's 40 year old ! , 2 valve, push rod ) , pull away from the modern supercomputer car , bring back the old days !
Originally McLaren were running ZL-1 and their derivatives before switching to Reynolds "390" blocks. All were aluminium, the 572 is just a tall deck cast iron block. From memory Mclaren started out at 465" and got up to 565" to keep up with the opposition but I think had reliability problems above 509"
Yes, it does. I don't think they have ever really been matched for awesome power, sound and pure adrenalin rush. I am old enough to remember watching some races on network TV.
Both F1 and Can-Am raced on Mosport and Watkins Glen; there are lap times available (I just posted some in my other comment here, see it). They're almost equal in lap times, slightly depending on the track and year.
In 2030 simulators will looks just like this. It's a good thing that the visual quality will be limited to human eye range. Just thinking.. wonderful video!
Although, I would have to contend that I like the 5.0L Flat-12 out of the Porsche 917 more. That thing has an amazing howl to it with the combination of high reving engine and noise from the cooling fan ontop.
i don't think i've ever seen a door closed ever-so-gingerly before 1:06 also and anyone tell me what the noise accompanying that blip of light on the dash was at 9:55 ?
modern prototypes don't stand a chance against the 917/30-k. in qualifying trim it made 1580hp. it had a power to weight ratio of nearly 2000hp per tonne. 0-60 in 1.9s. top speed was over 260mph. a 917 can do 200mph in the rain.
Fair enough. So with 6piston Carbon 300+ mm ABS F+R and a 7speed racebox, the CanAms would be a match for anything today? Would be fun to have tested against a R15/R18 on LM/Sebring fx.
F1GTR is quicker through the turns and can carry more speed exiting the turns. Also, over 250km/h I reckon it's quicker. Finally, this car will last 24 hours no problem and still be safer to crash.
![Drive!! McLaren F1 GTR Keiichi Tsuchiya [Hot-Version] 1997](/img/n.gif)
the purple CanAm Rocket is a McLaren M8F, driven in 1974 by Helmut Kelleners (father of Ralf Kelleners, the driver of the F1GTR in this video).
@Motherfuckin Animals No. Read again
This is awesome. F1 GTR '97 at modern Spa with Can-Am cars. How much more could you ask for?
a 917-30 in the field, but you're right in calling this awesome
group c is there too
the 917/30 is the greatest car ever made. to build that car today would cost a fortune and a half. it even had hollow titanium screws... you don't see stuff like that.
IER McLarenF1 Longtail when?
A sauber c-11 Merc a Porsche 962 and a Mazda 767b
4:35 is my favorite moment, the can am cars just casually walk away from the f1 gtr. it puts in perspective the mind bending speed of those early 70s monters
In a straightaway it will dominate every one of them. Higher top speed. Had it been in front from the start. No competition.
gtr was later on the throttle
@@hotdog9262and he short shifted
Compared to 9:50
@@SuperCrysis92sorry but the fact they have 200 more horse power and less weight combined with the fact the long tail f1 can only barely do 200mph, means it’s doesn’t stand a chance can am mclarens do 200 on hangar straight at Silverstone they are so much faster than an f1 gtr in a straight line
Look at that assortment of cars! It's like Gran Turismo coming to life!
Thank you so much for no music no commentary. When I first read the title I was thinking "nooo cant be those CanAm's" then you made my heart melt.
I have a new respect for how fantastically fast a Can Am car is! Thanks for the post
CanAm car has power:weight AND aero = hard to beat.
@@garymatthys3605 Let's compare:
McLaren F1 GTR - 600HP, 2000lbs, 2000lbs of downforce
typical Can-Am car - 650-800HP, 1400-1800lbs, 1500-2000lbs of downforce (it's hard to find data for these)
McLaren has modern parts (chassis, brakes, etc.) as an advantage, but Can-Am has power, weight, and maybe downforce as an advantage. Idk about tires, but obviously the F1's original tires were way way better than Can-Am's original tires from the 60s.
@@christianponicki9581 It's hard to compare cars from different eras(and classes to boot), but it's fun to see them actually compete against each other. Top examples of the fastest race cars of their times.
You can have your high tech cars. I'll take the low teck Can Am cars hands down. I don't care how fast these modern GTR cars can go or how they handle. To me the cars of old were 100% more thrilling to watch.
@@Trucker1957 The designers back then had so much more latitude to try different designs and ideas. Not so restricted by rules.
The F1 GTR won it, but it certainly seemed to have its fair amount of trouble doing so.
few times in history you could see the fastest production roadcar (power choked by the racing regulations of its time) racing against the unruled CanAm monsters!
also worth noting, that the F1 GTR would probably not exist were if not by CanAm, where Bruce McLaren became a fucking legend on the tracks.
It’s not like they were 100% racing though, you could tell they were holding back quite a bit because of the value of said cars.
@@hankdieselify yeah Ralph was going backwards
@@hankdieselify The F1 GT is worth more than the others.
@@thethirdman225 and the gt f1 is worth more than that!
Still probably one of the top 5 racecars ever built.
Will be for a very long time.
Almost 30 years later, and still the fastest N/A production car ever
Jesse Hearndon On what basis?
X2
yes but incontrolable...
Ralf Kelleners was competing against this car in his Porsche 911 GT1 back in the FIA GT Championship. Kind of funny to see him driving in it.
Wow that's actually really cool.
drivingkato Kelleners is a BMW tuner. Really Crazy that he drove against BMW in the end 90'.
Honestly driver are drivers and seemingly if you are competent people want you to drive their car for what ever reason, from Historics to testing....
29 people forgot what a REAL racecar sounds and drives like...all motor, no boost. Beautiful thing. Long live the Mclaren F1s
I was @ Mosport for Can-Am practice and the race on June 10, 1973 when 917-30 first appeared and was @ the 1972 race when the 917-10 first raced. Both cars were stunning but, as along time F1, prototype road racing fan, I have to say the 917-30 either stopped or moving was a thing of pure beauty, especially when driven by Donahue. It had the pole @ Mosport in 1973 in 1' 14.1". Ronnie Peterson took the Cdn. GP F1 pole @ Mosport in Sept. in 1' 13.697" driving the famous JPS Lotus 72. Peterson was the fastest driver I've ever seen then or since. So lets concede those 2 cars were about the same. Very, very fast. Imagine how disappointed my nostalgia enfused brain was when I discovered the lap record @ Mosport now is 1' 04.094 " in an Audi R10 TDI set in 2008 by Rinaldo Capello. Grrr. Progress.
mosport was widened in 2003 and is hence shorter, the 962 was doing 1m09s but yeah progress
@@LB1973 that beautiful corner 2 now looks like a parking lot
LOVE the Can Am cars always have totally brutal power and looks!!!
Agree,they look more beautiful than modern ones and using big block engines.
missing Link And slower than a wet week in corners...
Bloody brilliant on-board footage here, gents. Fantastic driving!
thanks for the vids ..from New Zealand ,the home of Sir Bruce Mclaren....its amazing to see his cars [ CanAms ] still being driven the way they were built for and not just collecting dust
This must have sounded amazing from trackside, the big banger V8’s and the F1 Almighty V12 howling down the straights. There’s nothing better that hearing & seeing different category of cars with different configuration of engines racing together.
This is rare stuff indeed! Thank you very much to spend some time to get this right with this superb quality!
Fantastic to see the 1997 Helsinki winner car is doing well!
If I remember right, Can-Am had 2 rules. The car had to have 2 seats and the body had to cover the wheels. They later legislated out the suspension mounted rear wings and the Chaparral's snow blower powered vacuum assist.
The sound of the big block Chevy cars, with an estimated 750-800 HP, would send a shiver right up your spine and make you hair stand up. It was the greatest mind-nlowing sound ever.... you had to be there. We went to almost all of the Can-Am races at Riverside. Go to the vintage races and check it out.
turbo buick Those V8's were monsters. Porsche beat them by taking the 5 liter 917 engine, blowing it out to 5.5 liters and strapping a couple of big ass truck turbochargers on it. I remember reading that the engine stressed that car so much that they actually had to pump the tube frame full of pressurized nitrogen and put sensors on it so the driver could tell if it cracked during the race.
+Joe M True story for the frame. There was a manometer in the cockpit for the driver to check its integrity.
No they also had the rule no turbine! :)
*turbo buick* - I know the story behind banning the Chaparral's vacuum assist but why were the suspension-mounted wings banned? Also, agree about the big block sound. Never heard these cars in person but hearing them in videos gives me shivers. Absolutely nothing before or since sounded like that, unreal.
@@joem1256 That was true of all Porsche spaceframes in the late 60s and early 70s.
When comparing videos of vintage racing in the US versus what I've seen in Europe, I get the impression the European versions seems to take it as racing competition as opposed to the US versions which are more like circuit parades.
The video footage here looks like an FIA championship sanctioned race with vehicles that could be considered museum valued pieces. It's remarkable to see and such a treat, as motorsports fans like myself that dates back to the original Can-Am series, or the European Interserie championship series, this is great!
Wow, the Bmw S70/3 engine in the McLaren Longtail (1997) sounds a lot better than the Bmw S70/2 engine that's in the McLaren Short Tail (1995-1996).
While the S70/2 produces mostly howl, but the S70/3 (Longtail) has that much desired Roar and Growl in the rpm range (mostly heard from on-board, as it simply screams more from outside)
I really love the on-board footage for sounds.... Just, I think about the most satisfying Scream/Roar of any GT car ever made. (Yes, I know the Can Am's sounds are very Deep Rumbling, Throaty LAZY V8 style, ... but I like the cleaner Scream of the BMW V12 of the 1990's...). Thanks for the video!
Forgot to mention that I am a big fan of the Manual Sequential gearbox too (But I dislike the modern Paddle Shift - aka fully automatic DSG DCT sequential). Don't think the Manual Sequential will grow out of taste for me :) Dog Gears/ Dog Clutch forever!
Who agrees / disagrees : Do you like the S70/3 engine sound or the S70/2 engine sound? (ps, they're slightly different sounding)
S70/3 but i like the XJR9's V12 better than all other group c cars
The same engine as BMW V12 LMR?
aldean29
BMW M8 Prototype
BMW X5 LM 1999
BMW V12 LMR Race car
Mclaren F1
Mclaren F1 GT
All share the same engine except the F1 GT having a different setup in the engine slightly. But they all share the same concept.. V12 engineered by BMW Motorsport. Engines similar is the engine found in the 850CSi which is similar but it's like distant cousin to the S70/2-3. The S58 (E36 M3) has more in common even though it's a Straight 6 engine but BMW engineers were also inventing in the 90s for example BMW had many projects they even made a V16 7 series BMW but the S70/2 was one of the projects that could turn out good so they smashed the B58 together and created the birth of the S70/2-3 V12. And before the Mclaren F1 BMW already had the S70/2 made before Mclaren even demanded for a engine. That engine turned out to be going into the M8 but Mclaren demanded a engine wile testing and BMW stoped the prototype of the M8 as they thought the Mclaren F1 would be better to put the engine. So the M8 had a 550HP engine S70/2 engine. So what BMW did was add more power to satisfy Mclaren even though 550HP was actually what Mclaren wanted in the first place. But BMW decided to bump more power. A fault of the engine was cooling, so much power from N/A engine BMW needed to make a solution which was gold plates. So the Mclaren got the engine and in 1995 the BMW M8 prototypes were recycled (20) of them and only one left now. The engine was so good at racing though they decided to extend the range by putting the engine in race cars that ended up in the S70/3 Mclaren F1 GT and the BMW V12 LMR. They also had a few concepts and project cars after and one of them were the X5 in 1999 that had a s70/2 in it with 550HP
Way back when, I watched a Chevy BB powered Lola run the circuit. That car was an absolute beast as it poured on the hp. It was an 1 hour race and it lapped the field probably 4-5 laps.
Kelleners is a top, top driver - but how scary are those M8's!
This is pure ear porn. I love it.
+bobkin611 Eargasms
you should hear GT1 V8's then, that's serious ear porn!!
Cars 20 yrs older still just as fast I love it
Much faster ..... 1000-1500 hp in Can-Am race cars ....
@9:15... nice catch.
"Just how much is this F1 GTR worth again?"
Well, it just sold last month for $5.28 million..
This past year, CanAm Porsche 917/30 & 917/10 sold for $4.4 & $5.5 respectively.
Amazing to see all of these rolling museums climbing Eau Rogue..
Great vid!
Lifeson Fan 917/30 sold for $4.40!? I'll take it!
4.40 x 10^7
Technically this one is an F1 GT due to the long tail.
@@explosivehotdogsActually, it's a 97 F1 GTR. The GT was the road car used for homologation to enter the 97 F1 GTR into the FIA GT Championship
@@mysteriouspartyguy good call - I probably should've known this : )
Thank you that was exhilarating. I must say, that I am envious of the driver.
No 917/30 Can Am car I see...that would have got the F1 GTR's attention....1,500 H.P. of flat Twin Turbo 12 cylinder.
They dont let them out to play too much seemingly, like the Panoz LMP1 you never see them....
Steve Fowler I doubt it would have made any difference. The Can Am cars are such slugs in corners, I’d take a bet the McLaren would have had any more trouble. He was getting passed because he was being held up.
Larry Kin They never got to 1,500.
@@thethirdman225 Can-Am are not slugs around corners, 800kg on modern race tyres man. They just don't handle like a Group C or GT1 😁 also that Porsche Can-Am might of been quicker than a GT1 car, depending on the track obviously.
@@justanotherlaid-backdude5297 Well, man, I was speaking in comparative terms. That's what this is: a comparison. Man. The McLaren F1 GTR weighs in at more than 1,100 kg and produces about 150 hp less. It also has a much stiffer chassis and more advance suspension design, along with much better brakes. If the Can Am McLaren can't beat it at a track like Spa, there probably aren't many tracks where it could. That's not a criticism of the Can Am car but there is 20 years of developments between them.
Italians make pretty things but I will say a German V-12 in the car that changed everything....Porsche, you are my King, I love you. But McLaren is my Lord forever
Ahahahaha! Bravo!
Aston Martin v12 ?
Jaguar v12
@@kierenboimufc5940 It wasn't a V12 that changed everything you are referencing....it was a flat 12. But as little as it is spoken..the Ferrari 512M could give the 917 a run for its money. The Ferrari won the 1970 Sebring race and one one other non-points in 1970. Porsche threw a lot more money into its 917 effort. Ferrari did not, however, the Ferrari proved just as fast as the 917, but reliability was the torn in its side.....if only Ferrari really developed the 512...history may have been a little different.
Michael Spraggins would the jaguar xjr 13 have raced the 917 etc or different year
It’s crazy how at home the McLaren F1GTR looks with the Can-Am cars... It’s keeping up no problem too! Mad respect. ✊
Great performance from both the car and the driver.
It's very interesting to see well the old Can Am cars compete with modern tech.
It says in German that he beat the fastest M8F by 16 seconds after 14 laps. Thats the aero and handling winning over a 200-300 hp advantage. The 917-30 wasn't there though, now that would have been fun to watch, though that was a German flat 12.
Incredible video. Thanks for sharing.
That McLaren sounds amazing! Love how it keeps up with these rocket ships lol
Easy. They’re not that fast compared with a more modern racer.
I thought so too.
Unglaubliches hammer Feld!! ich glaube jeder der hier ein Rennwagen fahren darf war nervöser als ein Formel 1 Fahrer beim Start. Danke für die super Bilder!!
Die CanAm, bzw. Interserie war mit das Beste was der Rennsport je hervorgebracht hat. Ich habe diese Ära Gott sei Dank noch live auf der NOS erleben dürfen.....
I'm surprised at the colossal pace of the CanAm cars, especially from 120mph onwards, as on paper they didn't run much more power than this f1 and ran through a 4 speed manual. Superb! Shame we couldn't see it dice with the Porsche 917.
Agreed, the /30 would have killed it
@@philking7805 The GTR would be faster over the lap than either of them.
that metalic rasp is so reminiscent of the M3 E46.
Yeah, I totally agree. The McLaren F1 engine was built by BMW ///M , so you can see why.
+Vincent Khazi the s50b32 from e36 m3 evo with eisenmann race exhaust, 284 schricks, mac motoren carbon airbox, low ratio diff sounds more likethe mclaren f1 in fact the mclaren f1 is 2 s50 engines joined to make a v12. i have one .....the e36 with the same mods over 300bhp at the wheels.
x2 in 60 degree fashion.
Yeah! I really do think that the S70 BMW engine does sound like the engine in E46 BMW M3! I just found out that too!
jaggafeen What?
The purple M8 of Peter Hoffmann is the same car that that Helmut Kelleners (Ralfs father) drove in the 1970s Interserie, then painted in the blue "Weissberg Tools" livery.
Wow! I love the McLaren alot, but love those CanAm cars even more!! Thats the great stuff you get when you don't over regulate a racing series, cars that 40 years later are still brutally fast and can keep up with and even beat much more modern equipment. I wish there was a unrestricted series like that now! Imagine the cars that would come from that!
it worked when everyone more or less had the same tech. when porsche arrived with with its turbo flat v12 it was games`up for the rest
I think everyone in the comments section forgets that McLaren F1 was made to be a road car and not a racer… It just happens so that it is so good at racing that it can compete with the cars that were built specifically for racing with no regulations in mind!
Even the pink one is more masculine than today's F1 cars ;)
Is the oval shaped thing in between the 4 exhaust pipes at 1:40 also an exhaust outlet? Because it sure looks like one!
Peter Hoffman is the Driver of this Mc Laren. He is driving this car in this color since 1976.
freakin awesome video,i would like more.same video with CLK-GTR :)
BTW what is those cars? which series they were competing?
Mark Allayban: Shifting early is called: "short shifting". It's quite often quicker around a race track when the driver short shifts as apposed to letting the engine rev out un-necessarily. (depending on track/corner/long straight etc). Plus it sounds to me like this particular F1 GTR has quite closely spaced gears. It can also save fuel & protect the engine/gearbox, especially in a long race.
It's rarely quicker actually, and especially with this car, which gets max power very close to the redline.
The main purpose is as you said, to save the engine and transmission.
Jackson P. I thought it was also commonly used to buy some extra grip coming out of a corner, especially on high powered cars?
Yes that's definitely correct, but in the GTR, simple modulation of throttle is probably more useful than short shifting (the gear changes are very aggressive and might make the car unstable if done at the wrong time)
Jackson P.
The car seems pretty unstable already; the driver seems to be counter-steering a lot in corners and he doesn't even seem to be driving at 100%.
Yeah, green(ish) track, probably old tires, and 680 NM of torque will make for an interesting ride
What a smashing video! And remember how the Porsche 917/30 drove rings around the Mclaren, imagine how fast THAT was! :-)
It all looks pretty ordinary until 9:15 when Kelleners really decides it’s time to drive it. Clearly annoyed at being constantly held up by blocking and being unable to use much better agility, the Group C car that passes him near the pit entrance is the last straw. For all that’s said about how fast the Can Ams are in a straight line, once he gets the bit between his teeth, he has little trouble catching up to the black one and despite repeated blocking, foxes the other driver into a mistake. By the time he gets out of La Source, the M8 is already making good progress towards Eau Rouge but Kelleners is actually with him again by the time they get to the end of the Kemmel straight.
So, Kelleners won at least after 16 laps distance?
The info says Kellners (F1 GTR) won the race after 14 laps with a lead of 16 seconds, second was Peter Hoffman in a McLaren M8F whos fastest lap was just 1,3 seconds slower.
Amazing to see Can Am cars pull away hard
From F1 GTR under acceleration!! These cars have more HP and are a good bit
Lighter, but are also 25 to 30 years older
that transmission has to take a beating every time you put it in gear if you can hear I'm getting right back into the peak torque God the lateral G-Force in every gear and must have been astounding that car and its surrounding components is amazing in every form stock car racing
Maybe you should look it up?
Watkins Glen 1973
F1: 1:39.657 Ronnie Peterson, Lotus
CA: 1:38.848 Mark Donohue, Porsche 917/30
Mosport 1973
F1: 1:13.697 Ronnie Peterson, Lotus
CA: 1:14.100 Mark Donohue, Porsche 917/30
clearly from different era's but way cool to see them on track together and actually be able to tell the differences in their strengths. those can-ams are brutal in a straight line and coming out of corners but the brakes and cornering ability of this Mclaren were unmatched. and it held its own down kemmel I think! man I love the GTR!
I'd estimate that there was no difference in the two cars from La Source to Les Combes. I reckon the GTR would be at least as fast through that section as the M8.
@@thethirdman225 I'm fairly certain the GTR would have a much better run out of raidillion. than the m8. the aero and suspension advantage the GTR has would allow much more throttle through the Eau Rouge Raidillion complex. but the brute strength of the old can-ams would probably make up for it down Kimmel. I don't think I'd be against your statement. lol
not even tires squealing...imagine he had used the full track capabilities of that car
Interesting that the CanAm cars with ancient technology still dominate on the track. Best racing series, ever!!
they lost against the f1
Were we watching the same race?
The FINA GTR just sold at auction for $5.28 million.
Is the gtr raod converted? Looks like it is because of the seat in the middle
11:30
Oh look it's me every time I play a sim and someone gets close behind me.
lol got em!
How are collisions handled in races like these?
Wow, that gear shift was quick AF. No wonder it made miracles against the Porsche 911 GT1 and the Mercedes CLK GTR :D
9:02 driver in the blue car disrespects the maclaren, then maclaren show him its true power.
How did he disrespect him? He simply took the racing line.
Thats a Cougar C26 S, from the end of the turbo Group C era. Its kind of amazing that the mclaren can keep up easily to that thing. It is an absolute monster.
@@rageagainstthehygiene2357 those Can-Am cars where monstrous, might of been the only decade where a race car was quicker than the F1 cars
@@justanotherlaid-backdude5297 Around 1991 the frontrunning sportscars like Jag 14 were coming out of rules changes that left them with then-current F1 engines, weighing 750kg and with diffuser-extractor wings, and far more efficient aero than any F1 car before or since. Would've given the day's F1 cars a serious challenge on any circuit.
That f1 gtr is one of the greatest race cars and greatest sounding cars ever made. When will the next naturally aspirated v12 road car converted into a race car come. The p1 gtr is great, but it isn't the f1 gtr. Anyone else notice the gt40(s) in the background?
hell, it's not just one of the best race cars ever made, it's one of the best cars period!
No didn't.
NA V12 race cars derived from road cars may come back with the new Le Mans Hypercar class. While that sounds nice at first it will be a full blown BoP formula so it'll be irrelevant.
Fantastic car! Brazilians know this car from the game Gran Turismo 4.
I love to BMW cars. This car won Le Mans in 1995, starting the race in seventh place.
This is a 1997 f1 gtr longtail the longtail has as the name suggests a longer rear end compared to the 96 gtr and the longtail is sequential rather than h-pattern as in the short tail.
Nelson Piquet drove a similar can in Le Mans 1997
The McLaren even won the Mil Milhas Brasileiras in 1997. One of the winning drivers was Nelson Piquet.
I cant get over how amazing that BMW engine sounds! Orgasmic.
would love to see a Jim Hall Chaparral clone running around the track. That white 66 car just glued me to Can-Am in addition to growing up in Indy. Not to mention the 1/24 scale slot car by Cox that an 11 year old kid could actually own.
Love how at first, Ralph is all over the mirrors under braking, no doubt thinking about the more or less priceless car he's driving. Then at Lap 3 he's clearly had enough and he all over that black Can Am in 1/4 of a lap.
cold tires early on, you can see him fighting the wheel in the corners on lap 1
Remember he has carbon fiber brakes. If the Can Am Cars had them game over
I think this car ended up winning right?
@theralfkelleners Ich persönlich finde es mehr als nur "klasse" das sich der Fahrer "himself" zu Wort meldet und uns Eindrücke aus dem Cockpit mitteilt. Und gleichfalls eindrucksvoll finde ich, pardon wenn ich das so offen sage, das die "Jungs" während der ersten Runden sicherlich mit dem gleichen Problem zu kämpfen hatten, nämlich mangelndem Grip... und dennoch einer Technologie die gut ein viertel Jahrhundert intensivster Entwicklung mehr zu bieten hat ABSOLUT Paroli bieten konnten!
Nothing like seeing a driver actually shift the beast. Pure connection. The f1 paddles are stealing the soul from these great cars. In spite of their huge technical advancement. Newer is not always better. From an R8 manual v10 driver.
I just dont know what to say. Thank you sir, may I have another??
It just amazes me how the drivers of yesteryear had much more skills. As I'm watching Ralf, I realize, he doesn't have to know how to work a clutch, upshift with the use of two feet (Clutch and gas pedal), he doesn't have to rev match on a downshift (heel and toe) and yet those CAN AM cars are doing all that with 40 year old technology at the same speed. It really makes you appreciate what the drivers from the past could do. I think technology has lessen the skills needed to really drive fast.
This is just a sequential gearbox, not a semi-auto and as you can see he is using the clutch and heel-n-toe on downshifts.
Yes, the Can-Am cars are amazing but what is also amazing that a modern racecar derived from a road-car can keep up with cars from the 70s which represented the absolute max engineers could create because the rules in Can-Am were pretty much fully open.
but BMW had the already M1 chasis..or the 8 Series....why that thing with McLaren????
Honda, McLaren engine partner in F1 at the time, didn't want to create an engine for the McLaren roadcar and therefor Gordon Murray looked around and came in contact with engine guru Paul Rosche with whom he had worked before when he was at Brabham which used BMW engines then. Rosche tried to come up with an engine to the specs Murray had set but the engine turned out heavier but more powerful, so Murray was still satisfied. There were zero plan to turn the McLaren F1 into a racecar, but that's what consumers later demanded and when after a few years GT racing became huge thanks to the ACO banning Group C cars at Le Mans BMW saw the opportunity to field a works team using McLaren F1 GTRs and later F1 GTR ´97s, which is the car in this video.
The M1 was long outdated in the 90s and the 8 Series is a front engine
luxury coupe, so it would've never been competitive in racing.
Ralf has drive hard to mix it up with Group 7 cars. Love the in-car cam.
That purple Can Am is a monster! Barney the Incredible Hulk or what?..XD The last lap it took before going in-car with the F1 sounded like a plane idling overhead. What kind of engine does it run?
does this put in to perspective just how amazing Can-Am cars were though ??? these are nearly 40 year old cars !!!!
oh yeah ! love seeing that old McLaren big banger (with it's 40 year old ! , 2 valve, push rod ) , pull away from the modern supercomputer car , bring back the old days !
The F1 is such a beauty. Technic and aesthetic.
F1 is no longer a race series. It is Bernies money machine that puts parades on around the world.
I mean McLarens F1 :D Not Bernies
Hammer genial - die Sounds kommen super!!!
Technology is nice and hard to beat but the sound and look of the Can Am's is unbeatable. 500+CID and 1000hp at full song is goose bump land!
The last two turns was quite the moment there. God I how badly just want to drive one of those Longtails.
great to watch the modern aero working in the corners and the can ams pulling away on the straights
Originally McLaren were running ZL-1 and their derivatives before switching to Reynolds "390" blocks. All were aluminium, the 572 is just a tall deck cast iron block. From memory Mclaren started out at 465" and got up to 565" to keep up with the opposition but I think had reliability problems above 509"
this onboard is so amazing
Yes, it does. I don't think they have ever really been matched for awesome power, sound and pure adrenalin rush. I am old enough to remember watching some races on network TV.
Both F1 and Can-Am raced on Mosport and Watkins Glen; there are lap times available (I just posted some in my other comment here, see it). They're almost equal in lap times, slightly depending on the track and year.
very interesting mix of different race cars from different decades :)
There be no other car like McLaren F1 it sounds so unique 🥺
In 2030 simulators will looks just like this. It's a good thing that the visual quality will be limited to human eye range. Just thinking.. wonderful video!
Stupid question - are these racing gearboxes double clutched? And does the driver not have a clutch pedal in that case?
Grant Johnstone google that shit!
I think It's a single clutch sequential with a clutch pedal. You can flat shift on the way up and heel-toe on the way down.
Although, I would have to contend that I like the 5.0L Flat-12 out of the Porsche 917 more. That thing has an amazing howl to it with the combination of high reving engine and noise from the cooling fan ontop.
Any more on board thats awesome 👌
i don't think i've ever seen a door closed ever-so-gingerly before 1:06
also and anyone tell me what the noise accompanying that blip of light on the dash was at 9:55 ?
freaky gearstick, brutal sound, me like! When can you deliver?
Doesn't the Mclaren F1 GTR use a S70/3 engine based on the S70/2 used in the standard road version of the Mclaren F1?
modern prototypes don't stand a chance against the 917/30-k. in qualifying trim it made 1580hp. it had a power to weight ratio of nearly 2000hp per tonne. 0-60 in 1.9s. top speed was over 260mph. a 917 can do 200mph in the rain.
Fair enough. So with 6piston Carbon 300+ mm ABS F+R and a 7speed racebox, the CanAms would be a match for anything today? Would be fun to have tested against a R15/R18 on LM/Sebring fx.
An F1 GTR( favorite McLaren) next to a GT40!(favorite ford)
A big wing and a fuel injected big block chevrolet engine, priceless. The F1 has technology, those McLarens have a SOUL.
Amazing to see a F1 GTR running with CAN-AM cars.
Are these Can Ams reproductions, or original? I would hate to wreck an original.
Daaaamn, I LOVE those McLarens!
Beautiful car.
Wow, all that pressure he exerted on that Can-Am car paid off: The guy went off the track at the end and the McLaren went by. :)
F1GTR is quicker through the turns and can carry more speed exiting the turns. Also, over 250km/h I reckon it's quicker. Finally, this car will last 24 hours no problem and still be safer to crash.