Interesting video. 👍 I must admit that I am somewhat of a dinosaur as to weapons. Have been shooting and carrying .357Mag for decades. Both as a peace officer and hunter. This cartridge kept me above ground in three shootings during my career as a peace officer. Further, now that I'm long retired, with both pistols and levergun in 357Mag, hogs, wild dogs, and coyote that run my woods where I live, have all gone down easily. I've not bought a factory round in decades, as I cast and load my own. My personal favorite is a cast SWCHP Ideal/Lyman #358156. With a healthy dose of AA#7, this 158gr gascheck bullet screams out of a Rossi 357Mag levergun at close to 1600fps. It regularly drops hogs up to 400 lbs with devastating results. Coyote and feral dogs are often shredded by this load. Yup, of all the different calibers I've used over the past 60 plus years, the 357Mag is my favorite...
Agree my favorite as well. Enjoyed casting same bullet with linotype with H110 and 296. For plinking use the Lee TL bullet with light charges of AA#5. Really accurate...
@@brianegeberg8497 You bet. Another one I really like is an RCBS 38 150 SWC. A dead ringer for the Ideal 358477, the old Phillip Sharp bullet of the late '30's. Shucks, I've been casting and loading since I was eight with my old great uncle. We cast 45 Colt and loaded with black powder, as he didn't trust smokeless. That was in 1958. But I've been at it ever since. Like I said, I'm a dinosaur.😀
@@brianegeberg8497 Thank you sir, for the complement. I'm in the process of teaching my nephew all the old school ways of casting and loading. His desire is to craft superior ammunition, and be able to deliver accurate and reliable shots at any range. He's been on cloud nine ever since we've began training and loading. Real proud of him. And when I kick the bucket, he's getting all my weapons and equipment. By then, he'll be ready to teach his sons the same.
357 a great rifle and pistol cartridge. Excellent 100 yard deer rifle in Texas. This is a much better cartridge then when the old gun writers like Keith thought it marginal. Modern jacketed bullets that work reliably . From a rifle I am an inch high at 50 and less than an inch low at 100 with full power 158 loads. Unlike 44 mag, recoil from a light rifle is very low. A bolt action ruger 357 is in my gun safe as a first rifle for my grandkids. Cannot think of a better one.
I love my little Rossi 92 .357! If I need to grab something to check a disturbance outside at night around the place, it’s my first choice. I have never used it as my deer gun, but in a pinch inside 50 yards I certainly wouldn’t hesitate. A .357 Mag out of a 20” carbine is a potent and very easy to handle package.
I’ve deer hunted for > 50 years with a Marlin 1894 in 44 Mag with excellent results - drt, as you say, but recently passed that rifle on to our oldest son Which he quickly accepted. I bought two lever guns to replace my lever gun opening (a Henry steel boy in 357 Mag and a Henry yellow boy in 45-70). I did also buy a Savage bolt action in 30-06. While the 30-06 is considered the penultimate for nearly all large game in North America, there is a great comfort in carrying a 357 lever as a great companion to a 357 revolver as a sidearm. Many feel the 357 magnum is the king of the Jack of all trades calibers based on how many ways it can be paired up between long arms and sidearms.
@@TXLorenzoI'm in the process of owning a Marlin 357 94. Waiting on my friends widow to give me the price. I also have the Taurus 7 Rd 4" 357. Mine is stainless. The titanium had went up $200 more, so I settled. But that's the reason I want that Marlin. Side note. I have already bought a 94 in 44 mag from the same woman a couple months ago. I have fell in love with that work of art. Working up a few loads for it now. Can't wait to try both this deer season
@@TXLorenzo behind my house, I've got a box blind, overlooking thick mixed timber, and a corn pile. They started allowing baiting here a few years ago. It's not real hunting, more like shopping for wild game, but I only take 2 or 3 back here each year. Perfect 60yd shot for either lever gun. Plus, doing it with my late buddies guns, makes it that more special.
Great video George! I've taken two deer with the 357 and 158 gr xtp . Both one shot kills around 65 yards or so. Bullet performance and shot placement are the key.
Me too, same bullet handloaded to near max. I don't remember the number of deer I've taken with it but it's more than two. Always clean kills. The trick is not a trick but a hunting standard that should always apply no matter who is shooting or what they're shooting at. Never take a shot you're not certain is going to do the job. It's better to go without venison than to go without venison AND leave a wounded animal in the field.
Well the way i was raised a part of hunting was working into game to get the right Angle for placing that shot! The .357 is more than adequate using the heavier bullets for penetration. If you don't get the proper shot then you dont shoot! Simple. Makes you a better hunter. God bless all here.
Back in mid to late 1970’s, I had a Marlin in .357, the little Cartridge surprised me how effective it was on Deer size Game, for me up to 150yards! It was very pleasing to shoot and very accurate!
American Eagle 158 grain JSP is a fine load for deer size game from a carbine length barrel. It expands wonderfully and penetrates quite sufficiently. It also tends to be a little more affordable than the "fancy" brands in the 20 round boxes. It would also be my top choice for defensive use from a .357 magnum lever gun. That said, I wouldn't carry it in a handgun because it needs a 16 inch or longer barrel to ensure reliable expansion. But for a carbine, it is about as ideal as they come.
The original 158 grain projectile has always been the go to for the 357 Mag. I always had excellent results with that weight bullet especially the JHP. Good review. Thanks.
I have taken 3-4 deer here in new england with a 357 Magnum and countless more with the Maximum. In the Magnum I LOVE one bullet. The Hornady 158g XTP-FP over max load of Lil Gun. Yes I know I have pupu'd lil Gun and STILL DO. But it works in this case giving me 1900+ in a 18" Marlin. 2000+ in a 24" Marlin and 1825 ish in a 16" barrel Rossi. 180's can loose vel fast and if you dont keep impacts short then can just punch holes. The XTP-FP expands like the best Hunting Bullet out to 75/80 yards. Probably lil farther but I have t used past 80. Our deer are good sized. Average doe is 125 ish and bucks are 175+. Altho we have tanks. My biggest was 263# after 5 days hanging. I recovered one of those XTP-FP bullets from a animal all Rest thru and thru. Now I do prefer the Maxi cause it does a 180 @ 2100+ and no bullets recovered. Inside 75yards never lost or lost or Made animal suffer needlessly with a 357 Magnum.
I have been hunting and shooting for 50 years, long bow to 30-06, the big part of hunting is getting set up for a good shot. I feel a 357mag will do a good job out to around 80yds with good ammo. Love the way you do your videos with very good content, keep em coming.
Cartridge selection every time. The stuff produced in .357 is from soup to nuts. Buffalo Bore has some of the absolute top tier. They just aren't loaded any better. A 158gr load from BB runs 1515 fps (805 ft-lb) at 150 yards from a 18.5-inch Marlin (per ballistic calculator). If that can't take a deer, it must be an elk instead.
Thanks for sharing your comparisons & findings. Some comparisons between .357 Mag & .44 Mag done on other channels show the .44 doesn’t overpenetrate as much as some people might think, & definitely creates a much larger wound cavity. As you point out the .357 is fine within it's limits, (a clean shot from 75 yards or less).
Great video! I've been a proponent of using .357 carbine for up to around 75 yards for deer and hogs for quite a while. Of course proper shot placement is key at all times. I have a Ruger 77/357 with a 2-7 low power scope (old eyes can't see irons very well anymore) and wouldn't hesitate or think I was under powered on a 150lb whitetail or hog at that distance. Keep those great videos coming! We appreciate your time and effort!
I have that same rifle as you do and I’m amazed at how good the quality is. It starts out a little tight but gets buttery smooth after a few hundred rounds. Great video and as always you are very detailed in your videos and we appreciate all your hard work.
@@tonelar415 The comment was regarding the Japan Miroku Winchester. Rossi is very good quality, but not the level of the Miroku. Rossi's can have work done to them, but I would recommend a very qualified and experienced person who's worked on them. Suggestions along the lines of Steve Young.
Why is it that everyone seems to overlook the old 160 gr. Keith bullet hard cast, wth a healthy dose of 2400, H110, or the like? Sure seems to work well in the wife's 1999 circa 1894 16" Trapper, as well as my heavy frame Smith, Colt and Ruger 6" barreled revolvers. The load doesn't shoot across canyons, but does just fine in the river bottoms and brush with a clear shot.
Mr Keith sure made a name for himself with those semi jacketed hard cast bullets. Personally, I like a wider nose and think it performs better in game. But, how much better is open to hours and hours of debate around a campfire😉
Hi George, great video. Lots of data and time involved in making this and it shows. I've always liked the 357 for hunting deer. As for long shots or field hunting as I call it LoL it's not going to work well. But when I use to hunt it was in the woods and hills and no way are going to get a 100plus yard shot! Just to many trees in the way! When I did field hunting on occasion I would use the Savage 99 so then I could reach out to well over 200 yards. I reckon it goes down to the right tool for the job. Thank you for all your hard work and time George. You are appreciated Sir.🤠
Thank you I enjoyed your video . I shoot a Model 1907 made in 1916 in .351 Winchester self Load the .357 is very similar over the years many writers whined the .351 was a poor hunting round . In the 1990's when I started loading for hunting with the .351 WSL, because of all those complaints of poor stopping power I sized Sierra 170 grain JHC to .351" . The bullets where only loaded to 1570 f/s but both deer I shot dropped right there . Shots were 40-50 yards as the deer trotted past shot in the upper shoulder broadside. In both cases the shock from the bullet pushed the shoulder way from the body , then made a large hole though the chest cavity and out the other side . Your 180 grain loads are very near the original 1906 factory loading of the .351 WSL and should be a great 100 yard deer gun.
Love the testing and I love my 35 Cal levers. 357 being dear to me as its the forst cartridge I reloaded. I have the same Cast Performance 180gr bullets loaded, and some Hunters Specialty 190gr loads. I use a lot of 2400 powder and am happy with its performance. Maybe not as hot but just as consistent.
Last year I harvested a 160 lb. Buck here in Florida with the same rifle and using 158 gr. Hollow Point by Remington. It was about a 88 yard shot that passed through the heart and body of the deer. The deer dropped like a sack of bricks.
I think the key to success with the 357, as well as any other cartridge is knowing your limits, knowing your load, and shot placement. I was hunting with a friend that shot a nice buck with a 300 Win Mag. It was a great shot behind the shoulder, but we tracked it for almost a mile before we found it. I’ve also been on hunting trips where deer were taken with smaller than normal loads (compared to today’s loads anyway). Hunting a sport that we hunters love, knowing that our reward will be stew for supper, or whatever the occasion. Hunting with any pistol caliber requires discipline. Do I favor the 357? Yes I do. I’ve seen what it can do. And it’s very very effective, at it’s given range. I once saw a 180# buck shot twice with a 45-70 at 55 yards, and neither bullet went through the animal. Is the 45-70 a bad choice? I think we would all agree that that is an answer. But what was the problem? The gun? No. The shooter? No. The ammo? Obviously so. But the same rule applies in any hunting situation. Choose your load wisely. But more important, choose your shot wisely. And be safe
Thank you! Best comment I've read concerning bullets. Always a dude in the comments measuring manhood with a caliber up. You can down any game with a#50 bow within proper range. (Quite a feeling i tell ya!) I'm trying to decide between 45lc and 357 lever action.... Simple as that i cant decide cause they are both excellent choices. One is cheaper yet other has more nostalgia.
My go to load to take something out in 357 carbine is the Missouri Bullets cast coated 180 gr. Pug which looks like the Cast Performance bullet. Loaded with 11.6 of 2400 it hits hard!
I'm in missouri and have always wanted to get a 357 rifle ,Now that I finally decided go for it.will let you know what I think next fire arms season.Realy enjoy your videos very informative,Thnx,
My personal deer gun for the back yard for the last 6 years has been a modern Winchester 1885 in 357 with a 1x4 Leupold scope, aging eyes need it as well as a heavily shaded back yard. I have used the Barns hard cast almost exclusively for three years now I think. 6 Deer have made less then 20 yards. I’ve never had one make it off the property. All with one shot to the vitals. Never aimed for head or neck shots as I am not that good. Love the 357 for it. For anything past the 75-100 yard mark I still fall back to my 45-70 or 35 Whelen, which ever I have ammo for, they are expensive to shoot so I do not always have ammo for them anymore. I love the 357. Prob a bit more recoil then the lever guns in my single shot, but not much. Like a 556 AR to 300 AR. All very manageable by most all adults and youth. I do not see my self switching any time soon. 357 is just so much cheaper to hunt with in the back yard. Plus I can shoot 38 SPL with the kids and nieces and not break the bank…….ish. It’s not 22 or 9 mm.
Sir, the minute you sat against the chair and supported the rifle with crossed knee and chair arm, my fidelity in your words greatly increased. You know what you're doing 👍
Interesting stuff, and people used to hunt and reliably kill large game with a 44/40 , talking to an old trapper who borrowed my .357 Browning one time he was blown away by " that damn little magnum". According to him it was a quantum leap in killing power over the .44 but " just to damn loud" , same guy was beating on an anvil all day making repairs to his leg hold traps. He shot black bear, deer n moose with both rounds no problem stating the 180gr .357 would often exit where the .44 wouldn't.
I shot my first deer with a 357, 6 inch rossi back in the early 90's. 50 feet ish, 75 yards ish from camp. He dropped like a bag of rocks. Quartering away, I was walking back to camp. He was watching my dad who was picking up a little fire wood. 158 grain soft point
I'd be interested in seeing the results with the Hornady 158gr "FP/XTP". With win296 I drive them, with a carefully crafted load to about, 1800FPS. Marlin 1894c 18.5" barrel. Haven't gel tested or actually taken game yet with this load. Hopefully this coming season I will have an opportunity. It's a interesting addition to the XTP line up....... Remember 158gr "FP/XTP" Great video!
@@bradstephens4915 Worked up to max. 1908 fps for the 158gr XTP FP is what I got. Not bad. Now the 125gr XTP FP gave me 2341 fps with 296. Gonna try lilgun with it next. So far lilgun has beat 296 with a 158gr even though it didn't reach your results. Will it beat 296 with a 125gr?....... Oh yeah, my brass was once fired starline.
@@silenceismycanvas Lil Gun is the cat’s meow in a 357 carbine. My results were with published max load. Also, my Rossi has a 1-30” twist, whereas your gun has a much faster twist rate. Could be the difference, but not sure. Keep me posted.
@@bradstephens4915 Looks like I'm gonna get a chance to hopefully "take a deer" with it. I'll let you know if anything significant happens. 158gr xtp fp. lil gun listed max. Wish me luck. :) P.S. accuracy was near one ragged hole at 50 and about 1" high. Cant sight in beyond 50. Range won't let me (pistol caliber) and no private property available to me.
I would love to see Marlin come out with a 357 maximum lever. Been waiting too many years. Would love pair it with my ole Ruger New Model Super Blackhawk.
Here in Arkansas in the ozark mountains I simply don’t get to shoot at ranges more than 75 yards so a lever gun seems perfect for my situation especially since it’s half the price to shoot a pistol caliber one.
My new Florida gun is my Rossi.357 with my omega 9k can on it. With our vegetation you're not going to get a shot over 100 yards unless there are cattle grazing it.
Another great, informative, video, George! Those ballistics may not be optimal for deer, but it would sure make for a great defense of the farm, rifle.
For penatration, hard cast is tough to beat. I've never recovered one from the dozen or so deer that I've taken with 38-55. Accuracy for that particular handload and single shot rifle is amazing. Thanks George!
Another great well thought out video!! That rifle with proper ammo (the XTP or Barnes for deer and or Elmer Kieth style semi wadcutter for hogs) will kill deer and hogs 75-100 yds like a bolt of lightning! Even some "rifle calibers" rely on exanguination. And I whole heatedly agree that in hunting or self defense, a CNS shot placement is the only way to "stop the fight" instantly and should be the preferred target in self defense.
George, thank you for the video. Debate will be infinite on 357 v 44 magnum and all such issues. Not a deer hunter here, but I have to believe that bullet selection, range and accuracy are the important variables. Perry P.
Thanks for another great and informative video! I especially enjoy watching the slo-mo ballistic gel work you do! That range brass did look pretty rough. Hope you get some Starline and try that 180 grain hard cast again. Keep this great (detailed and technical) content coming!
I have wanted a 357 lever action for a while now. It just looks like a really fun rifle to shoot and as far as rounds go it seems like they are reasonably priced. So for home security and Preditors like cayotes I think it is a perfect weapon on the homestead.
I have a Henry Big Boy Steel in .357 and a Ruger New Vaquero .357. I think you're correct about them. They are my go-to pair for everything out or indoors in Eastern California and Western Nevada. .357/38 is the goldilocks cartridge in lever guns IMO. The ammo price plays a big part in it too. A box of 50 .357 mag rounds is $21 and 38 is $18. Currently on the site I buy from.
I once had a Colt 357 magnum with an 8”+ barrel. I always figured that, out of that revolver, a40-50 yard maximum on deer might be achieved. Alas, I sold it before I ever got the chance to try it. But a 16”-20” barrel would change that considerably.
I thought it would have been interesting the 457 ballistics between average revolver barrel and average carbine barrel with different loads and projectile weight.
For a pistol caliber in a rifle I’m buying a new Henry in the .45 Colt to go along with my Blackhawk in the same caliber. In a lever gun I’ve always shot a 30-30 and never had a problem taking the deer within a hundred yards. Thanks for the video. Great info again sir!!!
Hello from Oklahoma! Good Video! Lots of good information. I'm 63. My Grandpa used to kill deer with a lever action 25/35, back in the depression days. I've killed deer with my Dan Wesson 357. The longest shot I've taken with my pistol was out of a tree stand at about 40 yards. The deer, a nice 8 pointer went about 50 yards and was done. Oh, I was using Remington 158 grain hollow points, Hard to find now. Thanks for all You do! God Bless!!
Seems you are in the perfect area to try that .357 on some wild porkers! With so many lever guns it is hard to choose which to use on deer hunting days. Thanks for the video and demo of the next rifle that may come soon.
Fine video, George! Love the .357mag. It's so stinking capable for what it is. 180gr max loads with a WFN hard cast are certainly capable of penetrating deeply, crushing bone, traveling straight, and delivering the goods. The wound channels appeared to be quite adequate for indicating tissue crushing capability. In my personal ballistics research in purely numbers, I found that the 20" carbine essentially extends the 4" muzzle energy of a good revolver about 90 yards. If you can dispatch a deer point blank with a 4" .357mag, you can do the same thing at 160 yards (Buffalo Bore 158gr) and further with the right bullet. It's important to note: RIGHT BULLET. And there are fantastic bullets available on the market that hold together with a PCC impact velocity. For fun plinking with lighter bullets, the 125gr will eclipse the typical 2,200 fps permanent stretch velocity (at least at muzzle), when loaded to max pressure.
Here in Ohio I have hunted whitetail with a 357 rossi 972 revolver for years with good secess under 50 yards .. last year mainly because of moving from woods to farm fields went to a 357 lever gun dropped a nice one at 110 yards no problem
I hand load 158gr xtp fp over h110/296. It has dropped a few deer under 70 yards with the farthest going 50 yards. Great expansion and take down power. But I didn’t get full pass through. Found bullet and jacket under the hide the offside. Takes them down quickly I’m trying cast this year with 158 and 180 grain for pass throughs.
Another good video, congrats. Can I ask something of you? I watch alot of your vids and I bought my Rossi because of you really. I see tou loading and firing alot of heavyweight loads in your 357's with some stiff charges of slow powders and heavy bullets, what does your brass look like? Does it always have a bulge just above the head? Have you mic'd any of it to see what kind of expansion youre seeing? My Rossi is bulging my brass pretty bad. I know why the '92 designed for straightwall cartridges must have the chamber reamed a little to feed them but either mine has been excessively reamed or this is a common trait of the Rossi's but Ive not heard you or anyone else mention anything about it.
Let's see. Good morning! Thanks for the video. A lot of work put into making this one. My thought on the .357 carbine for hunting is that if I need it I have one, but it wouldn't be my first choice nor my primary arm for hunting deer. I think it could do the job at close range, again, if needed. Thanks for the video.
I can tell you from using a Marlin 1894 in 357 magnum on wild boar,that it's very effective and rapidly incapacitates deer size game with good shot placement. I used 145 grain Silvertips and they almost always exit,even on shoulder shots on 200 pound boars. All of these were within 25 yards but had power to spare.
Good video thanks. I know of a guy in New Zealand who hunted deer in the bush with one of those. They are also very popular here for hunting pigs (with dogs). Some respectable velocity there. 🇺🇸 🇳🇿
As usual it's a beautiful gun plenty of power and lever reload nice shooting as usual I usually take your input because you are the voice of experience second to none 👍💕😎
@@robertgulley1382 The heavy bullets take up too much powder space. A 200 gr with Lil' Gun will only get up to about 1600 fps. The 180s with Lil' Gun will go about 1800. The 158s with Lil' Gun will go 2000 fps. The 158s have more energy all the way to 200 yards and they are flatter shooting.
You failed to mention your barrel length for that particular gun which is definitely a significant consideration with a .357 Magnum. I'm guessing that's a 20" barrel like my Rossi R92. I also have a Cimarron 24" octagon barrel .357 Magnum rifle. I definitely appreciate your video showing the gelatin terminal results. I'm thinking the 165 grain is definitely something I'm going to source as it seemed like it mushroomed well and larger than the other, still with decent penetration. Good to know the hard cast 180 grain didn't feed as well. I haven't had an opportunity to fore either of mine yet and I got some Bear Defense 180gr hard cast cartridges. I hope they function well in the rifles or they may just need to be loaded in the old 6" S&W 686 revolver if they don't! It would be excellent if you did a similar test with .38 Special through that rifle to compare.
Looks like you're back to Tuesday mornings forvideo relases? I grew up using multiple calibers on game animals, including .357 magnum from a 6 inch Smith 686. Between my dad, my older brother, and I we I can remember a half dozen mule deer taken in that fashion. The farthest shot, if memory serves, was 50ish yards. The closest was inside 10 yards. I'm a huge fan of the .357 and am hoping to get a revolver and lever gun in the near future. Thanks for another fantastic video!
Thanks! It's heartwarming that you remember the, "usually on Tuesday" thing. The reality is I was just late getting this one out, as has been the case quite often here over the last few months. But rather than wait and try to do it on a schedule I wanted to get something out for you guys to see.
I’ve been hunting with a JM stamped Marlin 1894 .357 for many years. It is set up with a Williams Aperture sight. Always accurate and effective. I have other rifles, but this is my favorite.
Most of my younger days hunting deer and hogs was in forested areas an/or thick brush areas along tree lines and I had a 4" barrel Python on my hip and a no-name brass receiver, 38spl/357MAG 16" lever gun with a piece of paracord for a sling. Dont think i ever shot any deer or hog past 75yds never had to look for one farther than I could see from where they were hit......it was really nice to be able to bring ONE ammo with me(2 if you count some .38spl shot shells and low loaded 38spl for small game). IMO, there is no more versatile combination of 'going to the woods' unless you are after birds when the lever gun would be swapped for my model 1100 20ga with the short, mod choke barrel on it. My life got away from me somewhere in my early 20's and it's time to take back control and get back out into the woods more often.
Fantastic channel! Love the lever action info the best. Love my Marlin 1895 GBL 45-70 and my Henry 44. Fiances' Henry 22LR is fun plinking though. 357 looks like fun though. Try Federal Swift A-frame 280grain in 44mag its amazing.🤠🦖
I have taken Whitetail deer, 200 pounds hogs and a lot more at 100 yard’s using 158 grain semi jacketed hollow points. That is my rifle’s favorite cartridge. I also use the same round in my 4 inch barrel pistol and take pugs and whitetail at out to 40 yards. I love my .357 mag.
I took a large 8 pt buck at about 50 yards with the Hornady round here in GA and I didn't have a complete pass through. The buck traveled about 150 yards before it expired. I was shooting while laying down backwards so the shot was about 6 inches high. I loaned my Friend Alex thus rifle and he took his first buck with the Buffalo Bore hard cast. It was an 80 yard shot and passed through both lungs and exited the deer! The deer only went about 30 or 40 yards and fell over. I have personally taken several deer in the past with a 357 magnum pistol so I have no doubts about capabilities but shot needs to be broadside.
I really appreciate your first hand experience with this cartridge. I'm planning to hit the woods this year with the new Ruger made Marlin 1894 in 357 magnum. Everyone doesn't understand hunting over a feeder. But here at the farm, we have an overabundance of deer. And that scenario will lend itself to 40 yard broadside shots, perfect I think for a 357 Magnum carbine.
I have taken several whitetail deer with a 357mag .. using 158gr JFN bullets .. out of a Rossi 357 mag carbine with a 16 inch barrel and two with a Blachawk with a 5.5 inch barrel using the same bullet it worked … absolutely no problem… with the revolver.. I was in a blind near a deer trail .. around 25-30 yds for both … actually shot both does before lunch .. same day .. the 357 out of a carbine .. with the right bullet is a different beast for sure I have used the 180gr XTP in a 357 Max … single shot carbine to take a nice 8 pt Buck at just over 100yds … That lets me know, just how good the 350 Legend would be
".22"?? 60 years ago or 100 years ago most men would take their grandson or son or nephew "to the woodshed" for trying their .22 on deer -- the height of irresponsibility, animal abuse and wasting ammo -- when "America's deer rifle", the Winchester 1894, later 94, in .30-30 was the proven standard. 'Six million 94's sold' it was noted at one time. After 'tanning their hide' the wise beyond years, older male relative would reprimand, ".22s are for squirrels and rabbits. We don't risk NEEDLESSLY wounding bigger game like a white tail deer with a .22 when we've got the 'tried-and-proven' .30-30." "As in archery or shooting a high-power rifle like the .30-30 at deer, shot placement is critical." Common sense, Hunting Basics 101 . Besides, there's not a single state where deer hunting is allowed that during the gun portion of deer season .22 long rifle is allowed. Any game warden would cite the offender for stupidity and intentional cruelty to wildlife.
Referring to the article found with the search: "Alaska Gunsite The Case For The 357 Magnum" -- With a muzzle velocity of 1827 fps, the velocity at your 25 yard jell block should be about 1746 fps. The formulas given in the article would predict a penetration of 62.9 inches and a permanent wound channel of 1.13 inches. The Buffalo Bore 19A ballistic coefficient is listed at 0.210 and the meplat is 0.28". Has your testing and hunting experience validated the usefulness of these estimating formulas for your 357/44/45 carbines and revolvers?
I have never shot at a big game animal with the 357 Magnum carbine. But I have killed multiple pigs with a 44 Magnum, and it is effective. Not DRT effective, nonetheless, with expiration usually happening within 10 to 15 seconds.
Thank you for a very good video. This should show anyone that the 357 Mag is a powerful round. Like Clint Eastwood said. you got to know your limitations.
I have used the .357 in a revolver and carbine to take deer. Yes, it works, but I was rather underwhelmed. The deer didn't seem to react much, and didn't go down too fast. Stayed up for an extra shot, yes, proper shot placement in less than 40 yards. Totally different experience than using a .44 carbine. Still a great multi-use carbine. Can still get it done. Just don't expect much fanfare.
I like the 357 carbine for a reasonable range deer getter , I have a Marlin 1894C that I hunted deer with back in the 80's and killed several deer with it none were over 75 yards but would of used out to 150 yards had the opportunity been there, but it was not and I have not hunted deer since the early 90's, not for any other reason than I moved from where I lived to another location and locations to hunt were not convenient. But my experiences were positive and I used factory 159 gr JSP bullets but do not remember specifics on manufacturer etc, the concern was wheter the hollow points expansion at distance would expand as I knew nothing about chronographs or ballistic gel in those days all I knew was dead deer
Great video, thank you. I have hunted with handguns for years, and have harvested a few deer and pigs with a 357 magnum. Most under 60 yards. About half the game had complete pass though shots. One bullet that has impressed me, because it has been accurate, penetrates enough, and aint very expensive, is the hornady 140 grain xtp. With a max load of accurate #9 i shot a good size doe at 75 yards. She didnt take a step, got complete pass through with evidence of good expansion. I believe you could get close to 2k fps with this bullet from a rifle with the right powder. Id love to see if it had enough integrity to stay together at that velocity.
I'll have to check later this afternoon, but I believe the max operating velocity for the 140 gr XTP is only 1600 fps. Beyond that, it just comes apart.
You are probably right. I loaded some 200 grain xtp bullets to about 1800 fps from a rifle. I think they went through about 3 milk jugs of water, and had very little left of the bullet.
At 5:30. I too had some of the G.F.L. brass and I found its quality to be rather sketchy. In my case it was in .223 Rem. The brass at the rim & head was dead soft. I ended up making some function test dummy's, key fobs, etc. out of some and destroyed the rest. Fortunately I wasn't out much money.
Very informative video Sir. Well done!! I've always liked the hard cast especially Underwood 38+P but the Barnes XPB was pretty impressive. It sure made the gel do a dance. Thanks for your time. 👍 🙏 🇺🇸 👊
In .357 my leaning is towards a Pedersoli Baby Rolling Block rifle. I have one of the original Remington Baby Rolling Blocks which the government of Uruguay had seamed out to .410 before selling it as surplus. Of course that is the same dimension as .444 Marlin brass and with black powder and some original .43 Spanish bullets it is a serious thumper. However just yesterday I was thinking in .357 it would make a great little woods carbine in say, .357. I was pretty plearsed when I learned Pedersoli makes exactly that and look forward to finding one.
A 357 lever gun has many advantages over tactical rifles or what people want as a bug out gun. First a 357 rifle can be used for deer, hogs, and humans. It can be fired without blowing your eardrums out which is important if you need to leave a rifle with the wife and kids to protect themselves. A loud rifle like a AR affects accuracy. Remember I'm not talking about a day at the range. Also a lever action can be loaded or topped off while still have a round chambered. It can also be used with snake shot. The sights are a lot easier to learn. Anyone who has ever taught anyone to shoot should know sights on a AR can be complicated for most people. A rifle in 357 has quite a bit less recoil than the same rifle in 44 mag. If I was in a situation I could only take one rifle it would be my Marlin 1894.
I have taken deer with the 357 Marlin 1894 CB I have. I had a 2-7 Vortex scope on it just to help me shoot it accurately at distance. I would keep the distance in 100yd range for max distance, just to ensure a good clean kill. I used a 125gr Hdy XTP flat nose bullet. The deer where I live are not very big. I feel better with a longer reach cartridge myself. I now have the rifle clean again and it is a plinker. For plinking I load a 38spl load in a mag case I developed long ago. I shoot Rainier flat nose 125 grain bullets about 1000 fps just for fun open sights recreational shooting.
Im glad people are producing content on hunting with something other then common rifle calibers ..I've always wondered if it was possible to hunt with 357..i always assumed they hunted with what they had and im sure 357 and 45LC has taken some deer lol
Walking the woods spot and stalk for hogs carrying a lever gun and a six gun on your hip both chambered in .357 Magnum would be fun and effective. I have been amused by the people that will praise the .357 Magnum as a powerhouse round but call the 350 Legend "anemic" for hunting. Out of a 16" AR I'm getting over 400 fps faster than those .357 rounds with the 350 Legend 150 grain Deer Season XP ammo, it has done great on hogs. Good video, I was bit bit surprised at the velocity of those rounds, more power than I expected.
Love the video, and interested in the 180 grain cast. I have a Ruger Marlin in .357 mag, and it’s bery finicky about OAL. A few thousandths over SAAMI specs will not feed. Could you supply the overall length for the rounds you used? Thanks.
I have a SHOT show Winchester 1873 .357 24" octagonal barrel with case color hardening finish on all the metal bits. It's also a Miroku beauty and is SO fun to shoot .38 Specials through...almost as quiet as a suppressed rifle. Being a Japanese-American hybrid myself, I'm partial to any of the Miroku-built American classics including a BL22 I have. 😊
Interesting video. 👍
I must admit that I am somewhat of a dinosaur as to weapons. Have been shooting and carrying .357Mag for decades. Both as a peace officer and hunter. This cartridge kept me above ground in three shootings during my career as a peace officer. Further, now that I'm long retired, with both pistols and levergun in 357Mag, hogs, wild dogs, and coyote that run my woods where I live, have all gone down easily.
I've not bought a factory round in decades, as I cast and load my own. My personal favorite is a cast SWCHP Ideal/Lyman #358156. With a healthy dose of AA#7, this 158gr gascheck bullet screams out of a Rossi 357Mag levergun at close to 1600fps. It regularly drops hogs up to 400 lbs with devastating results. Coyote and feral dogs are often shredded by this load.
Yup, of all the different calibers I've used over the past 60 plus years, the 357Mag is my favorite...
Agree my favorite as well. Enjoyed casting same bullet with linotype with H110 and 296. For plinking use the Lee TL bullet with light charges of AA#5. Really accurate...
@@brianegeberg8497 You bet. Another one I really like is an RCBS 38 150 SWC. A dead ringer for the Ideal 358477, the old Phillip Sharp bullet of the late '30's.
Shucks, I've been casting and loading since I was eight with my old great uncle. We cast 45 Colt and loaded with black powder, as he didn't trust smokeless. That was in 1958. But I've been at it ever since. Like I said, I'm a dinosaur.😀
@@anangryranger It is called experienced! Getting there myself...
@@brianegeberg8497 Thank you sir, for the complement. I'm in the process of teaching my nephew all the old school ways of casting and loading. His desire is to craft superior ammunition, and be able to deliver accurate and reliable shots at any range. He's been on cloud nine ever since we've began training and loading. Real proud of him. And when I kick the bucket, he's getting all my weapons and equipment. By then, he'll be ready to teach his sons the same.
357 a great rifle and pistol cartridge. Excellent 100 yard deer rifle in Texas. This is a much better cartridge then when the old gun writers like Keith thought it marginal. Modern jacketed bullets that work reliably . From a rifle I am an inch high at 50 and less than an inch low at 100 with full power 158 loads. Unlike 44 mag, recoil from a light rifle is very low. A bolt action ruger 357 is in my gun safe as a first rifle for my grandkids. Cannot think of a better one.
I love my little Rossi 92 .357! If I need to grab something to check a disturbance outside at night around the place, it’s my first choice. I have never used it as my deer gun, but in a pinch inside 50 yards I certainly wouldn’t hesitate. A .357 Mag out of a 20” carbine is a potent and very easy to handle package.
I got one too; inexpensive, light, accurate and easy to find ammo. It's my go to gun for varmits.
Inside 50 yards is the duty of a 6 inch S&W L-frame. 100-200 yards is the Rossi 20". Got two of them, 357 and 454 Casull Mag.
I’ve deer hunted for > 50 years with a Marlin 1894 in 44 Mag with excellent results - drt, as you say, but recently passed that rifle on to our oldest son Which he quickly accepted. I bought two lever guns to replace my lever gun opening (a Henry steel boy in 357 Mag and a Henry yellow boy in 45-70). I did also buy a Savage bolt action in 30-06. While the 30-06 is considered the penultimate for nearly all large game in North America, there is a great comfort in carrying a 357 lever as a great companion to a 357 revolver as a sidearm. Many feel the 357 magnum is the king of the Jack of all trades calibers based on how many ways it can be paired up between long arms and sidearms.
I carry into the field the Marlin 357 and a Taurus .357 Titanium 7rd pistol. I never feel undergunned.
@@TXLorenzoI'm in the process of owning a Marlin 357 94. Waiting on my friends widow to give me the price. I also have the Taurus 7 Rd 4" 357. Mine is stainless. The titanium had went up $200 more, so I settled. But that's the reason I want that Marlin.
Side note. I have already bought a 94 in 44 mag from the same woman a couple months ago. I have fell in love with that work of art. Working up a few loads for it now. Can't wait to try both this deer season
@Gunrunner223 I'm sure you will be happy with the 357 combo. Easy to reload for and you own anything inside 100 yards. Never lost a deer with it.
@@TXLorenzo behind my house, I've got a box blind, overlooking thick mixed timber, and a corn pile. They started allowing baiting here a few years ago. It's not real hunting, more like shopping for wild game, but I only take 2 or 3 back here each year. Perfect 60yd shot for either lever gun. Plus, doing it with my late buddies guns, makes it that more special.
@@Gunrunner223I have a similar setup around 40-50 yards near a deer feeder. Its harvesting not hunting. lol
Great video George! I've taken two deer with the 357 and 158 gr xtp . Both one shot kills around 65 yards or so. Bullet performance and shot placement are the key.
Me too, same bullet handloaded to near max. I don't remember the number of deer I've taken with it but it's more than two. Always clean kills. The trick is not a trick but a hunting standard that should always apply no matter who is shooting or what they're shooting at. Never take a shot you're not certain is going to do the job. It's better to go without venison than to go without venison AND leave a wounded animal in the field.
PSA now has AAC 357 Mag 158gr XTP for sale, 50 rounds for 30 bucks.
Well the way i was raised a part of hunting was working into game to get the right Angle for placing that shot! The .357 is more than adequate using the heavier bullets for penetration.
If you don't get the proper shot then you dont shoot! Simple. Makes you a better hunter.
God bless all here.
Back in mid to late 1970’s, I had a Marlin in .357, the little Cartridge surprised me how effective it was on Deer size Game, for me up to 150yards! It was very pleasing to shoot and very accurate!
American Eagle 158 grain JSP is a fine load for deer size game from a carbine length barrel. It expands wonderfully and penetrates quite sufficiently. It also tends to be a little more affordable than the "fancy" brands in the 20 round boxes. It would also be my top choice for defensive use from a .357 magnum lever gun. That said, I wouldn't carry it in a handgun because it needs a 16 inch or longer barrel to ensure reliable expansion. But for a carbine, it is about as ideal as they come.
The original 158 grain projectile has always been the go to for the 357 Mag. I always had excellent results with that weight bullet especially the JHP. Good review. Thanks.
I have taken 3-4 deer here in new england with a 357 Magnum and countless more with the Maximum.
In the Magnum I LOVE one bullet. The Hornady 158g XTP-FP over max load of Lil Gun. Yes I know I have pupu'd lil Gun and STILL
DO. But it works in this case giving me 1900+ in a 18" Marlin. 2000+ in a 24" Marlin and 1825 ish in a 16" barrel Rossi.
180's can loose vel fast and if you dont keep impacts short then can just punch holes.
The XTP-FP expands like the best Hunting Bullet out to 75/80 yards. Probably lil farther but I have t used past 80.
Our deer are good sized. Average doe is 125 ish and bucks are 175+.
Altho we have tanks. My biggest was 263# after 5 days hanging.
I recovered one of those XTP-FP bullets from a animal all
Rest thru and thru.
Now I do prefer the Maxi cause it does a 180 @ 2100+ and no bullets recovered. Inside 75yards never lost or lost or
Made animal suffer needlessly with a 357 Magnum.
I have been hunting and shooting for 50 years, long bow to 30-06, the big part of hunting is getting set up for a good shot. I feel a 357mag will do a good job out to around 80yds with good ammo. Love the way you do your videos with very good content, keep em coming.
I think you are spot on.
Yep, I've always seen .357 magnum as an 80 yard woods deer rifle.
Thanks Don! I appreciate your comment!
I. Totally. Agree
Cartridge selection every time. The stuff produced in .357 is from soup to nuts. Buffalo Bore has some of the absolute top tier. They just aren't loaded any better. A 158gr load from BB runs 1515 fps (805 ft-lb) at 150 yards from a 18.5-inch Marlin (per ballistic calculator). If that can't take a deer, it must be an elk instead.
Thanks for sharing your comparisons & findings. Some comparisons between .357 Mag & .44 Mag done on other channels show the .44 doesn’t overpenetrate as much as some people might think, & definitely creates a much larger wound cavity. As you point out the .357 is fine within it's limits, (a clean shot from 75 yards or less).
Great video! I've been a proponent of using .357 carbine for up to around 75 yards for deer and hogs for quite a while. Of course proper shot placement is key at all times. I have a Ruger 77/357 with a 2-7 low power scope (old eyes can't see irons very well anymore) and wouldn't hesitate or think I was under powered on a 150lb whitetail or hog at that distance. Keep those great videos coming! We appreciate your time and effort!
I have the same rifle. It really likes those Barnes XPB rounds as far as accuracy goes
@@bassbyrdtx I'll keep that in mind!
I have that same rifle as you do and I’m amazed at how good the quality is. It starts out a little tight but gets buttery smooth after a few hundred rounds. Great video and as always you are very detailed in your videos and we appreciate all your hard work.
too many toutubers are pushing people to “polish & re-spring” their Rossis… all they really need to do is shoot a few boxes of ammo through ‘em.
@@tonelar415 The comment was regarding the Japan Miroku Winchester. Rossi is very good quality, but not the level of the Miroku. Rossi's can have work done to them, but I would recommend a very qualified and experienced person who's worked on them. Suggestions along the lines of Steve Young.
Why is it that everyone seems to overlook the old 160 gr. Keith bullet hard cast, wth a healthy dose of 2400, H110, or the like? Sure seems to work well in the wife's 1999 circa 1894 16" Trapper, as well as my heavy frame Smith, Colt and Ruger 6" barreled revolvers. The load doesn't shoot across canyons, but does just fine in the river bottoms and brush with a clear shot.
Mr Keith sure made a name for himself with those semi jacketed hard cast bullets. Personally, I like a wider nose and think it performs better in game. But, how much better is open to hours and hours of debate around a campfire😉
I have used that load often with excellent results. The 2400 powder burns cleaner and consistency than some of the newer powders.
Hi George, great video. Lots of data and time involved in making this and it shows. I've always liked the 357 for hunting deer. As for long shots or field hunting as I call it LoL it's not going to work well. But when I use to hunt it was in the woods and hills and no way are going to get a 100plus yard shot! Just to many trees in the way! When I did field hunting on occasion I would use the Savage 99 so then I could reach out to well over 200 yards. I reckon it goes down to the right tool for the job. Thank you for all your hard work and time George. You are appreciated Sir.🤠
Thank you Terry. I always appreciate your comments and your support!
Thank you I enjoyed your video . I shoot a Model 1907 made in 1916 in .351 Winchester self Load the .357 is very similar over the years many writers whined the .351 was a poor hunting round . In the 1990's when I started loading for hunting with the .351 WSL, because of all those complaints of poor stopping power I sized Sierra 170 grain JHC to .351" . The bullets where only loaded to 1570 f/s but both deer I shot dropped right there . Shots were 40-50 yards as the deer trotted past shot in the upper shoulder broadside. In both cases the shock from the bullet pushed the shoulder way from the body , then made a large hole though the chest cavity and out the other side .
Your 180 grain loads are very near the original 1906 factory loading of the .351 WSL and should be a great 100 yard deer gun.
Love the testing and I love my 35 Cal levers. 357 being dear to me as its the forst cartridge I reloaded. I have the same Cast Performance 180gr bullets loaded, and some Hunters Specialty 190gr loads. I use a lot of 2400 powder and am happy with its performance. Maybe not as hot but just as consistent.
Last year I harvested a 160 lb. Buck here in Florida with the same rifle and using 158 gr. Hollow Point by Remington. It was about a 88 yard shot that passed through the heart and body of the deer. The deer dropped like a sack of bricks.
I think the key to success with the 357, as well as any other cartridge is knowing your limits, knowing your load, and shot placement. I was hunting with a friend that shot a nice buck with a 300 Win Mag. It was a great shot behind the shoulder, but we tracked it for almost a mile before we found it. I’ve also been on hunting trips where deer were taken with smaller than normal loads (compared to today’s loads anyway). Hunting a sport that we hunters love, knowing that our reward will be stew for supper, or whatever the occasion. Hunting with any pistol caliber requires discipline. Do I favor the 357? Yes I do. I’ve seen what it can do. And it’s very very effective, at it’s given range. I once saw a 180# buck shot twice with a 45-70 at 55 yards, and neither bullet went through the animal. Is the 45-70 a bad choice? I think we would all agree that that is an answer. But what was the problem? The gun? No. The shooter? No. The ammo? Obviously so. But the same rule applies in any hunting situation. Choose your load wisely. But more important, choose your shot wisely. And be safe
Thank you! Best comment I've read concerning bullets. Always a dude in the comments measuring manhood with a caliber up.
You can down any game with a#50 bow within proper range. (Quite a feeling i tell ya!)
I'm trying to decide between 45lc and 357 lever action.... Simple as that i cant decide cause they are both excellent choices. One is cheaper yet other has more nostalgia.
My go to load to take something out in 357 carbine is the Missouri Bullets cast coated 180 gr. Pug which looks like the Cast Performance bullet. Loaded with 11.6 of 2400 it hits hard!
You have some of the best reviews I have seen
I'm in missouri and have always wanted to get a 357 rifle ,Now that I finally decided go for it.will let you know what I think next fire arms season.Realy enjoy your videos very informative,Thnx,
My personal deer gun for the back yard for the last 6 years has been a modern Winchester 1885 in 357 with a 1x4 Leupold scope, aging eyes need it as well as a heavily shaded back yard. I have used the Barns hard cast almost exclusively for three years now I think. 6 Deer have made less then 20 yards. I’ve never had one make it off the property. All with one shot to the vitals. Never aimed for head or neck shots as I am not that good. Love the 357 for it. For anything past the 75-100 yard mark I still fall back to my 45-70 or 35 Whelen, which ever I have ammo for, they are expensive to shoot so I do not always have ammo for them anymore.
I love the 357. Prob a bit more recoil then the lever guns in my single shot, but not much. Like a 556 AR to 300 AR. All very manageable by most all adults and youth. I do not see my self switching any time soon. 357 is just so much cheaper to hunt with in the back yard. Plus I can shoot 38 SPL with the kids and nieces and not break the bank…….ish. It’s not 22 or 9 mm.
Sir, the minute you sat against the chair and supported the rifle with crossed knee and chair arm, my fidelity in your words greatly increased. You know what you're doing 👍
Interesting stuff, and people used to hunt and reliably kill large game with a 44/40 , talking to an old trapper who borrowed my .357 Browning one time he was blown away by " that damn little magnum".
According to him it was a quantum leap in killing power over the .44 but " just to damn loud" , same guy was beating on an anvil all day making repairs to his leg hold traps. He shot black bear, deer n moose with both rounds no problem stating the 180gr .357 would often exit where the .44 wouldn't.
L
Thanks for the video, George, i appreciated the information about your handloads. Something to try myself.
I have downed many doe with my Marlin 1984 .357 mag. Fantastic rifle/cartridge combo.
I shot my first deer with a 357, 6 inch rossi back in the early 90's. 50 feet ish, 75 yards ish from camp. He dropped like a bag of rocks. Quartering away, I was walking back to camp. He was watching my dad who was picking up a little fire wood. 158 grain soft point
Thanks for sharing your homework!
You are welcome, Pat!
Thanks George, always love your videos. Basic poimt, that heavy bullets will likely work better for larger animals, is well taken!
I'd be interested in seeing the results with the Hornady 158gr "FP/XTP". With win296 I drive them, with a carefully crafted load to about, 1800FPS. Marlin 1894c 18.5" barrel. Haven't gel tested or actually taken game yet with this load. Hopefully this coming season I will have an opportunity. It's a interesting addition to the XTP line up....... Remember 158gr "FP/XTP" Great video!
You should try Lil Gun powder. I drive that same bullet to 2040 fps out of a 16” Rossi.
@@bradstephens4915 Gonna have some Lil Gun next week. When I get a chance to load up and test, I'll comment here. Might be a few weeks.
@@bradstephens4915 Worked up to max. 1908 fps for the 158gr XTP FP is what I got. Not bad. Now the 125gr XTP FP gave me 2341 fps with 296. Gonna try lilgun with it next. So far lilgun has beat 296 with a 158gr even though it didn't reach your results. Will it beat 296 with a 125gr?....... Oh yeah, my brass was once fired starline.
@@silenceismycanvas Lil Gun is the cat’s meow in a 357 carbine. My results were with published max load. Also, my Rossi has a 1-30” twist, whereas your gun has a much faster twist rate. Could be the difference, but not sure. Keep me posted.
@@bradstephens4915 Looks like I'm gonna get a chance to hopefully "take a deer" with it. I'll let you know if anything significant happens. 158gr xtp fp. lil gun listed max. Wish me luck. :) P.S. accuracy was near one ragged hole at 50 and about 1" high. Cant sight in beyond 50. Range won't let me (pistol caliber) and no private property available to me.
I would love to see Marlin come out with a 357 maximum lever. Been waiting too many years. Would love pair it with my ole Ruger New Model Super Blackhawk.
Here in Arkansas in the ozark mountains I simply don’t get to shoot at ranges more than 75 yards so a lever gun seems perfect for my situation especially since it’s half the price to shoot a pistol caliber one.
My new Florida gun is my Rossi.357 with my omega 9k can on it. With our vegetation you're not going to get a shot over 100 yards unless there are cattle grazing it.
Agreed, it can get thick here. I love my Henry .357.
Same goes for northern canada. Plenty of corn and wheat etc…in the south that can give 300yd shots, but in the forests? Lucky to see more than 50
The rossi is very smooth! They are awesome!
Same for the Maine woods
@@swheeler6848 Yup, I’ve been down there.
Another great, informative, video, George! Those ballistics may not be optimal for deer, but it would sure make for a great defense of the farm, rifle.
Amen!
For penatration, hard cast is tough to beat. I've never recovered one from the dozen or so deer that I've taken with 38-55. Accuracy for that particular handload and single shot rifle is amazing. Thanks George!
Another great well thought out video!! That rifle with proper ammo (the XTP or Barnes for deer and or Elmer Kieth style semi wadcutter for hogs) will kill deer and hogs 75-100 yds like a bolt of lightning! Even some "rifle calibers" rely on exanguination. And I whole heatedly agree that in hunting or self defense, a CNS shot placement is the only way to "stop the fight" instantly and should be the preferred target in self defense.
Thanks! By the way, I love that word, exanguination. It sounds so . . . civilized😄
Awesome video and I am a .357 guy that hunts with both weapons.. and a Barns guy as well.
I deer hunt regularly with that Buffalo Bore load in MD. Within 100 yrds it's great for deer in that caliber.
George, thank you for the video. Debate will be infinite on 357 v 44 magnum and all such issues. Not a deer hunter here, but I have to believe that bullet selection, range and accuracy are the important variables. Perry P.
Great comparison and enlightening information
Thanks for another great and informative video! I especially enjoy watching the slo-mo ballistic gel work you do! That range brass did look pretty rough. Hope you get some Starline and try that 180 grain hard cast again. Keep this great (detailed and technical) content coming!
Thanks! I appreciate your comment!
Pretty impressive overall, especially the hard cast bullets.
Lpp
Another great showing George! 👍😃✌️🇺🇸
I do watch all of your videos - love your presentations - I just do not comment much - Loved the Rugher Single Six 22 repair videos you made.
GREAT JOB.I ALWAYS ENJOY YOUR SHOOTING AND TALKING ABOUT GUNS.KEEP UP THE FINE WORK
I have wanted a 357 lever action for a while now. It just looks like a really fun rifle to shoot and as far as rounds go it seems like they are reasonably priced. So for home security and Preditors like cayotes I think it is a perfect weapon on the homestead.
I have a Henry Big Boy Steel in .357 and a Ruger New Vaquero .357.
I think you're correct about them. They are my go-to pair for everything out or indoors in Eastern California and Western Nevada. .357/38 is the goldilocks cartridge in lever guns IMO.
The ammo price plays a big part in it too. A box of 50 .357 mag rounds is $21 and 38 is $18. Currently on the site I buy from.
I once had a Colt 357 magnum with an 8”+ barrel. I always figured that, out of that revolver, a40-50 yard maximum on deer might be achieved. Alas, I sold it before I ever got the chance to try it. But a 16”-20” barrel would change that considerably.
I thought it would have been interesting the 457 ballistics between average revolver barrel and average carbine barrel with different loads and projectile weight.
For a pistol caliber in a rifle I’m buying a new Henry in the .45 Colt to go along with my Blackhawk in the same caliber. In a lever gun I’ve always shot a 30-30 and never had a problem taking the deer within a hundred yards. Thanks for the video. Great info again sir!!!
I have a Marlin in .357 and one in .44 Mag. Great little rifles. Great video.
Hello from Oklahoma! Good Video! Lots of good information. I'm 63. My Grandpa used to kill deer with a lever action 25/35, back in the depression days. I've killed deer with my Dan Wesson 357. The longest shot I've taken with my pistol was out of a tree stand at about 40 yards. The deer, a nice 8 pointer went about 50 yards and was done. Oh, I was using Remington 158 grain hollow points, Hard to find now. Thanks for all You do! God Bless!!
Thank you V. Smith for the lwfn.
Seems you are in the perfect area to try that .357 on some wild porkers! With so many lever guns it is hard to choose which to use on deer hunting days. Thanks for the video and demo of the next rifle that may come soon.
Have loaded the 357 for decades and have always had my best results for heavy bullet loads with H-110 and the tried and true 2400.
Fine video, George!
Love the .357mag. It's so stinking capable for what it is. 180gr max loads with a WFN hard cast are certainly capable of penetrating deeply, crushing bone, traveling straight, and delivering the goods. The wound channels appeared to be quite adequate for indicating tissue crushing capability.
In my personal ballistics research in purely numbers, I found that the 20" carbine essentially extends the 4" muzzle energy of a good revolver about 90 yards. If you can dispatch a deer point blank with a 4" .357mag, you can do the same thing at 160 yards (Buffalo Bore 158gr) and further with the right bullet.
It's important to note: RIGHT BULLET. And there are fantastic bullets available on the market that hold together with a PCC impact velocity.
For fun plinking with lighter bullets, the 125gr will eclipse the typical 2,200 fps permanent stretch velocity (at least at muzzle), when loaded to max pressure.
Here in Ohio I have hunted whitetail with a 357 rossi 972 revolver for years with good secess under 50 yards .. last year mainly because of moving from woods to farm fields went to a 357 lever gun dropped a nice one at 110 yards no problem
While I am not a hunter, your videos are full of useful information. And I AM an information guy.
That's a great comment! I have to give you a special thanks for tolerating my techno-babble.
I hand load 158gr xtp fp over h110/296. It has dropped a few deer under 70 yards with the farthest going 50 yards. Great expansion and take down power. But I didn’t get full pass through. Found bullet and jacket under the hide the offside. Takes them down quickly
I’m trying cast this year with 158 and 180 grain for pass throughs.
Another good video, congrats.
Can I ask something of you? I watch alot of your vids and I bought my Rossi because of you really. I see tou loading and firing alot of heavyweight loads in your 357's with some stiff charges of slow powders and heavy bullets, what does your brass look like? Does it always have a bulge just above the head? Have you mic'd any of it to see what kind of expansion youre seeing?
My Rossi is bulging my brass pretty bad. I know why the '92 designed for straightwall cartridges must have the chamber reamed a little to feed them but either mine has been excessively reamed or this is a common trait of the Rossi's but Ive not heard you or anyone else mention anything about it.
Let's see. Good morning! Thanks for the video. A lot of work put into making this one. My thought on the .357 carbine for hunting is that if I need it I have one, but it wouldn't be my first choice nor my primary arm for hunting deer. I think it could do the job at close range, again, if needed. Thanks for the video.
Good morning to you! Thanks for your comment!
I can tell you from using a Marlin 1894 in 357 magnum on wild boar,that it's very effective and rapidly incapacitates deer size game with good shot placement. I used 145 grain Silvertips and they almost always exit,even on shoulder shots on 200 pound boars. All of these were within 25 yards but had power to spare.
Great information George Thanks for the video
Thanks for watching Chris. I'm slowly going through some of your content. Good stuff.
@@TargetSuite Thanks George
Good video thanks. I know of a guy in New Zealand who hunted deer in the bush with one of those. They are also very popular here for hunting pigs (with dogs). Some respectable velocity there. 🇺🇸 🇳🇿
Really enjoy the videos. Buffalo bore makes really good ammo.
i have been working up loads for my henry and can say i am getting real good results but have yet to hunt with keep up the good work
As usual it's a beautiful gun plenty of power and lever reload nice shooting as usual I usually take your input because you are the voice of experience second to none 👍💕😎
I appreciate that. But be discerning! I have missed on a few in the past😉
@@TargetSuite have you tried a 200 grain cast bullet? I’ve seen loads for pistols but not rifles, they just go to 180 grain. Just wondering.
@@robertgulley1382 The heavy bullets take up too much powder space. A 200 gr with Lil' Gun will only get up to about 1600 fps. The 180s with Lil' Gun will go about 1800. The 158s with Lil' Gun will go 2000 fps. The 158s have more energy all the way to 200 yards and they are flatter shooting.
@@mattnewcomb4147 just thinking of weight and what it would do on deer at short distance, 50-60 yards in the woods where I’m at.
I have not. I suspect that heavier bullets will either not cycle, or take up too much room in the case.
You failed to mention your barrel length for that particular gun which is definitely a significant consideration with a .357 Magnum. I'm guessing that's a 20" barrel like my Rossi R92. I also have a Cimarron 24" octagon barrel .357 Magnum rifle. I definitely appreciate your video showing the gelatin terminal results. I'm thinking the 165 grain is definitely something I'm going to source as it seemed like it mushroomed well and larger than the other, still with decent penetration. Good to know the hard cast 180 grain didn't feed as well. I haven't had an opportunity to fore either of mine yet and I got some Bear Defense 180gr hard cast cartridges. I hope they function well in the rifles or they may just need to be loaded in the old 6" S&W 686 revolver if they don't! It would be excellent if you did a similar test with .38 Special through that rifle to compare.
I Love the .357 mag. rifle/pistol combo!
Looks like you're back to Tuesday mornings forvideo relases? I grew up using multiple calibers on game animals, including .357 magnum from a 6 inch Smith 686. Between my dad, my older brother, and I we I can remember a half dozen mule deer taken in that fashion. The farthest shot, if memory serves, was 50ish yards. The closest was inside 10 yards. I'm a huge fan of the .357 and am hoping to get a revolver and lever gun in the near future. Thanks for another fantastic video!
Thanks! It's heartwarming that you remember the, "usually on Tuesday" thing. The reality is I was just late getting this one out, as has been the case quite often here over the last few months. But rather than wait and try to do it on a schedule I wanted to get something out for you guys to see.
@@TargetSuite Your videos are welcome anytime!
Thanks!
I like how your range enlarges for easier view when your shooting the targets. VERY NICE
Thanks! I recently started doing that. I think I will develop that further so the view up close is even sharper.
I’ve been hunting with a JM stamped Marlin 1894 .357 for many years. It is set up with a Williams Aperture sight. Always accurate and effective. I have other rifles, but this is my favorite.
I agree with your last statement, be ethical and humane. Don’t take the shot unless you’re sure and capable of making it.
Great video, love that rifle! There at the end, it appears that you've downed a score or more coffees. :) -Gunny T sends
Most of my younger days hunting deer and hogs was in forested areas an/or thick brush areas along tree lines and I had a 4" barrel Python on my hip and a no-name brass receiver, 38spl/357MAG 16" lever gun with a piece of paracord for a sling. Dont think i ever shot any deer or hog past 75yds never had to look for one farther than I could see from where they were hit......it was really nice to be able to bring ONE ammo with me(2 if you count some .38spl shot shells and low loaded 38spl for small game).
IMO, there is no more versatile combination of 'going to the woods' unless you are after birds when the lever gun would be swapped for my model 1100 20ga with the short, mod choke barrel on it.
My life got away from me somewhere in my early 20's and it's time to take back control and get back out into the woods more often.
Fantastic channel! Love the lever action info the best. Love my Marlin 1895 GBL 45-70 and my Henry 44. Fiances' Henry 22LR is fun plinking though. 357 looks like fun though. Try Federal Swift A-frame 280grain in 44mag its amazing.🤠🦖
Thanks for your comment. I've tried the Swift round and they are fantastic.
I had some work done to my 45 Colt 1892 to get it to feed 1.640 WFN cartridges. It was worth it, those 300gr WFNGC bullets zip at 1700fps.
I have taken Whitetail deer, 200 pounds hogs and a lot more at 100 yard’s using 158 grain semi jacketed hollow points. That is my rifle’s favorite cartridge. I also use the same round in my 4 inch barrel pistol and take pugs and whitetail at out to 40 yards. I love my .357 mag.
I took a large 8 pt buck at about 50 yards with the Hornady round here in GA and I didn't have a complete pass through. The buck traveled about 150 yards before it expired. I was shooting while laying down backwards so the shot was about 6 inches high. I loaned my Friend Alex thus rifle and he took his first buck with the Buffalo Bore hard cast. It was an 80 yard shot and passed through both lungs and exited the deer! The deer only went about 30 or 40 yards and fell over. I have personally taken several deer in the past with a 357 magnum pistol so I have no doubts about capabilities but shot needs to be broadside.
I really appreciate your first hand experience with this cartridge. I'm planning to hit the woods this year with the new Ruger made Marlin 1894 in 357 magnum. Everyone doesn't understand hunting over a feeder. But here at the farm, we have an overabundance of deer. And that scenario will lend itself to 40 yard broadside shots, perfect I think for a 357 Magnum carbine.
What are you using to get that crimp Thanks enjoy your vides.
I'm using a Lee Factory crimp die.
I have taken several whitetail deer with a 357mag .. using 158gr JFN bullets .. out of a Rossi 357 mag carbine with a 16 inch barrel and two with a Blachawk with a 5.5 inch barrel using the same bullet
it worked … absolutely no problem… with the revolver.. I was in a blind near a deer trail .. around 25-30 yds for both … actually shot both does before lunch .. same day ..
the 357 out of a carbine .. with the right bullet is a different beast for sure
I have used the 180gr XTP in a 357 Max … single shot carbine to take a nice 8 pt Buck at just over 100yds …
That lets me know, just how good the 350 Legend would be
I imagine, 60 years ago more deer were taken with a 22 than any other caliber. As in archery, shot placement is critical.
".22"?? 60 years ago or 100 years ago most men would take their grandson or son or nephew "to the woodshed" for trying their .22 on deer -- the height of irresponsibility, animal abuse and wasting ammo -- when "America's deer rifle", the Winchester 1894, later 94, in .30-30 was the proven standard. 'Six million 94's sold' it was noted at one time.
After 'tanning their hide' the wise beyond years, older male relative would reprimand, ".22s are for squirrels and rabbits. We don't risk NEEDLESSLY wounding bigger game like a white tail deer with a .22 when we've got the 'tried-and-proven' .30-30."
"As in archery or shooting a high-power rifle like the .30-30 at deer, shot placement is critical." Common sense, Hunting Basics 101 . Besides, there's not a single state where deer hunting is allowed that during the gun portion of deer season .22 long rifle is allowed. Any game warden would cite the offender for stupidity and intentional cruelty to wildlife.
@@scvandy3129 Maybe you should ask a game warden and shatter your delusions.
Referring to the article found with the search: "Alaska Gunsite The Case For The 357 Magnum" -- With a muzzle velocity of 1827 fps, the velocity at your 25 yard jell block should be about 1746 fps. The formulas given in the article would predict a penetration of 62.9 inches and a permanent wound channel of 1.13 inches. The Buffalo Bore 19A ballistic coefficient is listed at 0.210 and the meplat is 0.28". Has your testing and hunting experience validated the usefulness of these estimating formulas for your 357/44/45 carbines and revolvers?
I have never shot at a big game animal with the 357 Magnum carbine. But I have killed multiple pigs with a 44 Magnum, and it is effective. Not DRT effective, nonetheless, with expiration usually happening within 10 to 15 seconds.
Thank you for a very good video. This should show anyone that the 357 Mag is a powerful round. Like Clint Eastwood said. you got to know your limitations.
That's the best looking looking shooting range I've ever seen.
I have used the .357 in a revolver and carbine to take deer. Yes, it works, but I was rather underwhelmed. The deer didn't seem to react much, and didn't go down too fast. Stayed up for an extra shot, yes, proper shot placement in less than 40 yards. Totally different experience than using a .44 carbine. Still a great multi-use carbine. Can still get it done. Just don't expect much fanfare.
Well said.
I like the 357 carbine for a reasonable range deer getter , I have a Marlin 1894C that I hunted deer with back in the 80's and killed several deer with it none were over 75 yards but would of used out to 150 yards had the opportunity been there, but it was not and I have not hunted deer since the early 90's, not for any other reason than I moved from where I lived to another location and locations to hunt were not convenient. But my experiences were positive and I used factory 159 gr JSP bullets but do not remember specifics on manufacturer etc, the concern was wheter the hollow points expansion at distance would expand as I knew nothing about chronographs or ballistic gel in those days all I knew was dead deer
Great video, thank you. I have hunted with handguns for years, and have harvested a few deer and pigs with a 357 magnum. Most under 60 yards. About half the game had complete pass though shots. One bullet that has impressed me, because it has been accurate, penetrates enough, and aint very expensive, is the hornady 140 grain xtp. With a max load of accurate #9 i shot a good size doe at 75 yards. She didnt take a step, got complete pass through with evidence of good expansion. I believe you could get close to 2k fps with this bullet from a rifle with the right powder. Id love to see if it had enough integrity to stay together at that velocity.
I'll have to check later this afternoon, but I believe the max operating velocity for the 140 gr XTP is only 1600 fps. Beyond that, it just comes apart.
You are probably right. I loaded some 200 grain xtp bullets to about 1800 fps from a rifle. I think they went through about 3 milk jugs of water, and had very little left of the bullet.
@@TargetSuite It might be doing 1600 at long yardage. Velocity is always an issue with hollow points if yardage varies a lot.
Ive taken many white tail. With my marlin .357. And loaded with hodgdon.h110 powder. Never disappoints.
At 5:30. I too had some of the G.F.L. brass and I found its quality to be rather sketchy. In my case it was in .223 Rem. The brass at the rim & head was dead soft. I ended up making some function test dummy's, key fobs, etc. out of some and destroyed the rest. Fortunately I wasn't out much money.
Very informative video Sir. Well done!! I've always liked the hard cast especially Underwood 38+P but the Barnes XPB was pretty impressive. It sure made the gel do a dance. Thanks for your time. 👍 🙏 🇺🇸 👊
Got a young friend who bags a deer in Michigan every year with a 357. Its a good whitetail cartridge for the close in hunting we do in MI.
That's great! Nothing like "imperical" data😉
In .357 my leaning is towards a Pedersoli Baby Rolling Block rifle. I have one of the original Remington Baby Rolling Blocks which the government of Uruguay had seamed out to .410 before selling it as surplus. Of course that is the same dimension as .444 Marlin brass and with black powder and some original .43 Spanish bullets it is a serious thumper. However just yesterday I was thinking in .357 it would make a great little woods carbine in say, .357. I was pretty plearsed when I learned Pedersoli makes exactly that and look forward to finding one.
A 357 lever gun has many advantages over tactical rifles or what people want as a bug out gun. First a 357 rifle can be used for deer, hogs, and humans. It can be fired without blowing your eardrums out which is important if you need to leave a rifle with the wife and kids to protect themselves. A loud rifle like a AR affects accuracy. Remember I'm not talking about a day at the range. Also a lever action can be loaded or topped off while still have a round chambered. It can also be used with snake shot. The sights are a lot easier to learn. Anyone who has ever taught anyone to shoot should know sights on a AR can be complicated for most people. A rifle in 357 has quite a bit less recoil than the same rifle in 44 mag. If I was in a situation I could only take one rifle it would be my Marlin 1894.
That slomo gel shooting was impressive. I have a Marlin in 357 and hope to take a deer with it this fall 👍👍
I have taken deer with the 357 Marlin 1894 CB I have. I had a 2-7 Vortex scope on it just to help me shoot it accurately at distance. I would keep the distance in 100yd range for max distance, just to ensure a good clean kill. I used a 125gr Hdy XTP flat nose bullet. The deer where I live are not very big. I feel better with a longer reach cartridge myself. I now have the rifle clean again and it is a plinker. For plinking I load a 38spl load in a mag case I developed long ago. I shoot Rainier flat nose 125 grain bullets about 1000 fps just for fun open sights recreational shooting.
Im glad people are producing content on hunting with something other then common rifle calibers ..I've always wondered if it was possible to hunt with 357..i always assumed they hunted with what they had and im sure 357 and 45LC has taken some deer lol
Walking the woods spot and stalk for hogs carrying a lever gun and a six gun on your hip both chambered in .357 Magnum would be fun and effective. I have been amused by the people that will praise the .357 Magnum as a powerhouse round but call the 350 Legend "anemic" for hunting. Out of a 16" AR I'm getting over 400 fps faster than those .357 rounds with the 350 Legend 150 grain Deer Season XP ammo, it has done great on hogs. Good video, I was bit bit surprised at the velocity of those rounds, more power than I expected.
How will those 180gr behave in a "partner revolver" if You just want one load on the hunting trip, or are stuck with just one of those loads?
Love the video, and interested in the 180 grain cast. I have a Ruger Marlin in .357 mag, and it’s bery finicky about OAL. A few thousandths over SAAMI specs will not feed. Could you supply the overall length for the rounds you used? Thanks.
The 180gr. Cast Performance rounds were 1.575" OAL.
I have a SHOT show Winchester 1873 .357 24" octagonal barrel with case color hardening finish on all the metal bits. It's also a Miroku beauty and is SO fun to shoot .38 Specials through...almost as quiet as a suppressed rifle. Being a Japanese-American hybrid myself, I'm partial to any of the Miroku-built American classics including a BL22 I have. 😊