In total agreement here. I’m ex military and also a big fan of tech and gps. However if you can’t read a map proficiently, you definitely won’t be able to use gps apps or handhelds properly. I think your channel is brilliant- not just for navigation but for the historic insights. Oh and the sandwiches!! 😎. All the best. Clive.
Agreed entirely, I live within a couple of hours walk from Kinder Scout and have had people with GPS maps on the plateau asking me where they were. What they meant, they wanted to know how to relate the position to the (clearly) visible features around them and where they wanted to go
I've always regarded GPS as a backup, especially for reassurance and position checking, never as my primary navigational tool. Very thoughtful insights. Thank you!
I'm a fell runner so love navigation, in Wales GPS is still banned in all fell races as it should be and I hope that never changes. Living in Snowdonia I come across lots of people using GPS on their phones, but to be fair they stare at the screens with a confused look on their faces the majority of the time, I've found the way people explore has been massively effected, because on the whole most hikers simply don't explore any more, most follow a pre-set route they loaded into their app the day before, and this has changed Snowdonia at least, as now more than ever before, people walk the same paths up the same mountains over and over, meaning the traditional busy areas have become much busier and the traditional quieter areas have turned into ghost towns. But one thing which irks me a little is I always have a map in my hand while running as I use the fell running technique where you fold the map and hold it with your thumb marking your last known position, so I find I'm regularly asked by GPS users if they can have a look at my map, and of course I oblige them politely with a smile, but inside I'm thinking "Carry your own bloody map!" 🤣 Rant over, love your videos!
Was on Pavey Ark earlier this year, lovely clear day and two hikers wandered towards me both staring at their phones and occasionally standing still to do a 360. They asked me where the summit was. I said it's the highest point that you can see (we were already on it) and they said thanks and walked away still looking at their phones. I'm not sure what to make of that but it was amusing.
Ok, so a few years ago (possibly more than a few) I used to instruct RYA nav courses, I always commenced the course with a little speech about teaching 17th century nav techniques, even though the candidates envariably would use GPS plotters when ever they set out, but the thing is that good grounding in a skill/technique/knowledge, provided the candidates with support base which allowed further development, I have a machine that can cut dovetail joints... but knowing how to cut them with hand tools makes me a slightly more competent. More power to your elbow sir, let's maintain a skill set which enhances the use of modern tools. thanks for a great channel. happy new year long may you prosper.
Same answer as why to learn making fire with flint and steel: in order to become proficient, you need to be aware of your surroundings, actively searching for resources, for landmarks, for clues, then you are more aware about a deer, a flower, birds chirping and you will better observe the scenery. I think it is the "being there" that might be lost on the screen.
Just started learning navigation with map and compass ( at the tender age of 60) thanks to your channel i can see my new super power developing rapidly. Thank you 👍
We spend a lot of time outdoors camping in wilderness or remote areas. We look for wild orchids, berries and mushrooms all of which lead us away from the beaten path. We do a lot of remote canoe trips. A few years back, I got lost in the dark on a lake searching for a remote campsite. I had a poor map and a bad compass. Yes I had a phone but it was dead. This was my motivation to see if I could brush up on my map and compass skills. I was very happy to find your u tube channel. Definitely the most useful and entertaining. LONG LIVE THE WAFFLE! Yes I use a map app on my phone but there's nothing like the sense of security that comes from having skills with a map and compass.
as someone who uses both maps and phone GPS for navigation in the woods, it's important to understand that your phone uses up battery much faster when you're in areas with no or low service. if you're planning on being outside for many hours, or even days, it starts to become less easy to assume your phone will be available to help you find your way. i always carry a paper map with me as backup, and i pull it out to use for navigation sometimes just to stay practiced at using it. the paper maps have the benefit of being able to show you a much broader area at once, because it's bigger than a phone screen. that comes in handy if you're trying to decide a route that goes a longer distance.
Just an aside here, your phone will not use up more battery if you turn on airplane mode when you're out of range; it'll last a lot longer that way than it does when you're at home or in a city, in fact, as the cellular, wifi, and bluetooth radios will be turned off. GPS will work fine but you need a good offline app to use with them.
In practice a battery dying is a very good reason. I nearly had that happen when taking a route where a footbridge was broken, adding an extra 5 miles to my round walk. That's what convinced me to learn map reading.
I learned to navigate using map and compass in the military (Sweden) and the teaching was very similar to your approach. I agree that it gives you independence and map reading skills. My best reason is that the map is larger than the tiny screen on the phone which in bright sunlight is pretty hard to read. GPS has its place and used in a navigator app in a car infotainment system it's superior to the map when you drive alone.
I learned rudimentary land navigation when I was a soldier in the Canadian artillery. Now, forty years later, I restudy it for fun. It's a great way to keep your brain sharp.
I take part in multi-day/night adventure races whereby gps devices of any kind are not allowed. Map and compass only. Your channel has been absolutely invaluable as a tool to brush-up on my navigational skills. Keep up the great work😊👍
GPS is an amazing tool. I'd love to see you do some videos about using it alongside a map and compass. I did this the other day, I saw a mountain in the distance and was wondering what it was. I was able to take an accurate bearing of the mountain with my sighting compass, and then in my gps app draw a 25 mile line from my location in that direction. It went right over my mystery mountain. I don't carry a map that shows stuff 20 miles away and my phone is bad at taking accurate bearings, so in that case, gps app and compass was a great combo.
The skill of using a map and compass to navigate connects you to your surroundings in a way that GPS equipment never will. I use a GPS device to log my distance travelled, average speed, time on the move and to check my coordinates if needed. I find it more fun to use a map and compass than a GPS.
I use a GPS on my hikes because I find it hard to get good maps of the areas where I hike. Would love another video on the history of the building you where near. Amazing stone work .
Retired military here, and I can't tell you the number of times people who should have known better went wrong with GPS. I don't even use it unless it's to make a position.
Hi Wayne!! You will never be replaced!!! You’re way too awesome!!! You’re the reason why I love your channel and content!!! I have learned so much from you, have applied your knowledge and skills and it’s an awesome feeling!!! You’re an awesome inspiration and amazing teacher!! We love you!!! Thank you so much!!! Strength and honor my friend be well!! Merry Christmas and happy new year!!🎊🎊🎉🎉👍🏿❤️💯💯 from Washington state 🇺🇸
I am ex Navy Surveyor and I know to read a Navigation Chart. I am also a mountaineer and trekker and I am not that good a map reader and that why I subscribed to you. I love how simply you explain things. We use google maps here in India and 25% of time that will lead you to a blind alley or bad road. Its cool to be able to read a physical map and find your way, especially when you are hiking deep in the mountains. OSMaps are far better than GMap.
13 years ago, I went on a 5-day bike trip to Paris with a route booklet and without mobile internet. I took a simple baseplate compass 'just in case', but ended up using it all the time. It became second nature to use it and I brought it with me on many subsequent trips. It did however mean stopping at many a crossroads. Using a GPS device, as I do these days, does take some charm away, but it allows for significantly more kilometers per average day. Still, being able to use a compass is a great skill to have.
Apart from your great argument that map reading skills are simply a superpower, the best I can imagine is that electronic GPS aids are only conceivable in an advanced form of a "guiding light", which explains all the data to the user on his mobile phone and guides him/her through the digital map. But this application will not come for a long time because it is not economically viable. Nobody will invest money in development if it doesn't pay off. The military perhaps? Until then, the map and compass will remain irreplaceable. I think... It will need you, Wayne! Show us that superpower :)
There is great satisfaction and joy in using a map and compass and having mastered the skills to do so effectively over using an electronic device. For me its a big part of what makes hiking so enjoyable. Its a bit like reading a real book over listening to an audio-book online. A map encourages you to look around and be very aware of the landscape around you instead of having eyes glued to a screen. One of the reasons for hiking is to get back to nature and away from electronic devices and also develop your inherent skills.
Well I am very keen on all related to navigation by map and compass for the same reason I am very keen on film photography and darkroom developing. And it is not because I can't use or don't have an iphone , gps and a digital camera. It's just more fun. Happy New Year Wayne!
When I was younger I did some off track walking in Australia. It is nice to be able to look at a map and decide that this a possible route, we will go across and down a spur to get to a creek and waterfall, and then we will head up the creek, and if it gets too difficult then there is a spur we can head up on. One of teh problems people do seem to be having is that they can't recognise this on their GPS, so they just keep trying routes that don't exist.
If you believe in backing up critical gear then you want to take both. And relying on map and compass at any point in your system means you need to be proficient with it. And that means it should be your primary means of navigating while hiking in order to grow and maintain your skill, and to conserve your GPS/phone battery. The only reason not to use map and compass is to save a bit of time, and if you're trying to rush to your destination while recreating in nature then you're doing it wrong.
I have been a map nerd since I was a child. My father was a conservationist for the government and always had maps around. Learning more about them in school made me enjoy them all the more. In my early adulthood I got to use maps professionally working for an ambulance service. It has always struck me as odd that some people do not know how to read maps, or grasp the concept of navigating. I believe those people lose out on understanding a lot about the local environment and lay of the land. Just following the commands given to you by a small box doesn't teach much.
Land navigation is FUN! It’s also miles more than anything GPS can replace. GPS might give you a fix, but can it help you make decisions, route choices, navigation strategies? Land navigation is much more than “where am I now?” More to the point, land navigation is a vital part of how human brains evolved and using those skills keeps us alert and smart as human beings. Did I also mention, ITS FUN! What other reason would you have to go out on wild nights and low visibility days to find some obscure features and have an adventure on the way? GPS is ok as a backup, like a dictionary for once you have completed the crossword. But for goodness sake, don’t just look up every clue! Journeys are about the journey. Don’t miss out on learning and using land navigation!
Sussed from the first frame you were quite local at rivington. Personally, I get a little “buzz” from (nearly) always knowing where I am on a map. But having recently done some technically difficult orienteering events, there’s room for improvement.😂 That IS fine navigation. Love the channel.
As far as I remember, the Footprint maps we used to hike along the West Highlands Way had useful information on location's risks during things rapid weather change (e.g. Ben Nevis had temperature fall to 2°C in August, seemingly good sides for an overnight camp flooded within hours, the old military road which is an easy hike won't be visible in valleys when swamped and covered in dense fog). This can be life saving information. While other sources like tourist informations and locals could provide that, it seems a good start to have maps for _hiking_ esp. as a beginner who doesn't know what to research beforehand -- navigation is just one aspect.
@@leejohnson3209 I agree on useless when wet. I live in the Lake District so I’m familiar with wet. But it is possible, even in heavy rain, to operate a phone.
This debate is also often heard between water sports practitioners. The GPS vs map/chart and compass. Using both in tandem is good practice (Regulations expect mariners to use all available means to be sure of position). Using a chart plotter (or even just a phone) is very convenient but enxourages lazy habits The authorities would hope that navigators plot gps derived positions onto paper at intervals. In an incident enquiry a passage plan and trip details in the log could be used in evidence. As for celestial, the US navy is said to have changed direction sharply of late. It had reduced the watch level of qualified to a very low level until someone twigged that even the most robust system could fail. (The "Iranian kid in his bedroom with a laptop" kind of thing) Now apparently the Navy have resumed earlier levels which is i think one qualified on the bridge on every watch. Good job they realised before it was too late - that a pencil and eraser are key tools in navigational practice. This series by The Map Reading Co is excellent and is highly entertaining.
GPS is my primary, because I don't go places where getting lost is life-threatening. If I did then I'd absolutely also take a map and a compass. I don't want to die because I dropped my phone...
I use sheet maps for transit studies in cities and for general planning of a holiday. A sheet map lets me see the entire region and store that idea in my head. Then when I'm riding the 49B eastbound I already know that we cross with a 111South that will take me to .... The same must apply to rambling. If I have studied the sheet map ahead of time, then I'll know that walking down any local stream will take me to the railway line and civilization. A sheet map lodges itself in my head and gives me the broad view I need not to get lost.
I lost my gps when my phone died after a dunking. I spent a night in the open after getting lost. Nowadays I am a qualified seaman and have learned to read charts and to navigate without GPS. I still use and love tech, but a basic knowledge of manual navigation can be a lifesaver.
It's not just about way finding but also about enjoying being in the landscape as opposed to merely traversing across it. With map reading skills you can look at the land around you and put names to features, get ideas about things to explore, where to go to find the best views, where to find shelter when the weather gets too spicy.
During a mountaineering course we practiced map reading as well. Interestingly, I found map reading much more difficult in mountainous terrain. To 'map' the mountains you're seeing around you at various distances to a bunch of contour lines on a maps is not easy!
Great points as a Geologist who grew up using okd school topo maps it makes sense. Without that knowledge the map on your screen doesnt make much sense.
I use both 'paper' maps and GPS (Memory Map) for hill walking, Green laning, simply wandering! and interchange as required between paper and phone as necessary, phone (Google maps/Waze) in the Car/Landrover mostly, paper for simplicity and walking. In both situations one is a backup for the other.
Working with ES I had cause to look for data in respect of incident positions. I was amazed to find so many incidents in the North Sea and Europe (way outside of my local gov's remit!). The cause: GPS and OS map refs data had been incorrectly adjusted to each other becoming, effectively, meaningless ...and worse!
I still like to use a map and compass; not only to be able to choose my own route but also because at brew o'clock / lunchtime i like to open the map up and compare it with the surrounding area - naming of peaks / looking at possible future routes., things like that This is easier for me with a map, rather than scrolling around a wee screen. On top of that, I think using map and compass keeps the mind sharp. GPS are extremely useful, and i carry a basic one as a security blanket in winter to help in whiteouts. However, i do fall into the 'old' category, and still think map and compass are cool...
I do use my OS map app on my phone when leading lowland walks and sometimes HM walks, I plan the route on the pc and its on my phone as well but always take a map and compass with me.
The background photos may have been taken where people have been saying but, on my screen and to my eyes, this was filmed in a studio with the pictures dropped in in post
I can't even truly rely on my phone maps in an urban setting. Goodness know how I would get on in open areas such as you traverse. It is definitely worth having a proper up to date map. Having said that, my OS map of Malhamdale is some 35 years old now. But, the footpaths and geological information has not changed . I would still take the map.
OS maps loaded into a gps device BUT bring a printed copy of it. Os maps has the option to do this. I use gps on longer walks where I want a decent pace. I usually spend a lot of time studying the map of the route on a computer, then I draw on the route I planned on my paper map. I find that way I get to know what I'm looking for when I'm in the hills
As I am a bit older, I grew up without GPS. Therefore I am already firm with maps, and I still prefer them. With sailing GPS is very convenient, but you still need a map. The disadvantage of chart plotters and GPS handhelds is, that you have no survey, and you cannot write on them. Of course, I have a GPS, the Garmin 67, and I use it rather often, but for micronavigation, where 1:25.000 is too small. That is in residential areas, or when many places simply post their coordinates on the internet instead of more or less cryptic charts. Another useful function is, that you can log your trail for further usage. But that can be obtained with a simple GPS logger the size of a USB stick. I got one, too, such things are not sold anymore, and it is a nice insurance, when actually lost, because you can pinpoint your location on the map withou any navigation, at least if your device can handle the local system :-).
Id learn the basics of map and compass reading just to learn something. Like cooking. The joy of the art. Also in edge cases where phones die or there is no signal it would mean the difference between life and death. Knowing you COULD look after yourself in that scenario is just a fun thing to imagine. Not quite prepping because the buy in is so low. Just an old art.
I have a Garmin GPS device ( Etrex 35t) with full Uk maps installed (talkie Toaster) , I plot my route using my computer/ tablet using free software and download it to my device ( including escape routes) but I also learnt to use a map and compass too.
I tend to mostly do long distance off road bikepacking these days. Not practical to bring a paper map for each area we ride through so use a phone and apple watch mostly and download maps. Always have power banks too. So, always have 2 methods of navigation. If out in a smaller area I take a map. Being proficient with a paper map is still very important in my opinion. 😀
My brother and sister are up in the mountains every week without a map and compass, both alone with just their GPSs, i think they are both mad and have told them so, i myself am in my fifties and always use map, compass and tally counter with the gps just as a backup that rarely gets used
You and your cans of worms. My argument is both a 'scare tactic' and a 'be reasonable and be prepared' tactic. Calling map reading skills a 'superpower' is a form of enticement appealing to people's hubris, I think. It can turn people off, particularly if the 'superpower' is flaunted over the less skilled. I enjoy watching your videos because there is so much to learn, even if it is only a refresher of what has been shaded by lack of practice on my part. Being able to read a map, to decipher its numerous symbols, is a skill that places that person at a level of confidence that surpasses that average person who simply looks at point a and point b. Combined with compass skill and star navigation, we can relate to explorers and map makers, who actually saw the landscape as it is. Nature has so much to offer. Explorers, outdoor adventurers (fishermen, hunters, geologists, orienteering enthusiasts,), and professional outdoors people all rely on map and compass skills first and foremost, the GPS is but a convenience to verify location and time travelled. Well, that's my rant. Hope no one was scared by it.
Putting 100% reliance on one method of navigation is risky...the further out you go the more risky doing that is..whether its electric or paper. I have seen paper maps get lost or somehow get wet and disintegrate over miles in a backpack. Having more then one source for navigation is a wise idea. A compass and paper map are great skills to learn and one could argue learning to use modern navigation systems in this age are also great skills to learn.
I had Garmin handhelds for years. Then one day on the release of a new model, the position icon grew so big it practically would cover an entire village ! I gave up with Garmin. Luckily I still kept my older model. I use the OS app on my phone now. But that has limitations. I still carry a compass though. Or an analogue watch
The first point you made, about the GPS app just showing a map, means the map and compass are obsolete because the phone IS a map and compass and you use it in essentially the same way. Everything after that was basically non-sequiturs. The phone doesn't know the weather, or who is afraid of heights? Ok. Does the paper map know that? No. Nothing has been lost. Honestly I would say that concerns about battery and such are much more valid that anything put forth in this video.
Lets face it, you are never going to get quality waffling from a GPS unit! In all seriousness. A map and compass enhances my experience while outdoors. A GPS can be convenient, but looking at a little screen is far less appealing. Best wishes Al
Former Land Surveyor here (Someone who used transit machines, both GPS and analog, to create the maps people use). Under NO circumstances should anyone ever place full trust in a GPS unit. Even the ones used for professional work can and are wildly inaccurate and unreliable. I never carry GPS as it will be more interested in tracking me than it will be in accurately tracking the topography. Did I mention batteries? Imagine the weight and chore of 10 days in the woods trying to feed the juice when a half ounce map will do yah fine. Anyone new to this realm please take the advice to use your brain and eyes and NEVER think twice about it-
Learning to use a map and compass effectively for those venturing into the outdoors is an essential survival skill that they should know. There really is no argument to this basic
Saya sangat setuju dengan apa yang anda katakan Salam Dari Indonesia Saya adalah Pramuka dan seorang land nav enthusiast, beberapa video anda memberi kan pencerahan kepada saya Terima kasih banyak, video video anda sangat menginspirasi
My father taught me the use of map and compass at an early age. Later, in the Rangers, I did a lot recon in S.E. Asia. After all, Rangers lead the way, right?😉 Maps don't need batteries. Never looses a signal. And are far more reliable for details of the area. If one is fully dependent upon GPS in a cell phone, I feel sorry for you .
The ironic thing about people who think they can get by with a GPS is that most of them can't even use their GPS effecitvely. They turn left when they should have turned right, because they don't know where north is and can't do map to ground (which in urban terrain is trivial) so they can't orient their electronic map. The Uber delivery driver that called me and asked me whether to turn left or right just astounded me. He coudln't understand why I was asking him "which direction are you facing" and that "I am facing forward" was not a useful answer. This is a guy whose job was navigating. The other thing that people are forgetting - and although it is becoming more widely known now with the war in Ukraine - is that the GPS satellites are vulnerable. Even without jamming or someone actually attacking the satellites, the horizon for satellites can be too narrow to get enough satellites to get a fix. E.g. in cities with tall builgings, under forest canopy etc etc.
Using a map makes you appreciate your surroundings, GPS are ideal to test your map reading skills. I do use OS maps app but if raining the touchscreen becomes pretty rubbish not to mention that you maybe wearing gloves that will need to be removed.
Not in the same league as its roads but ill use a satnav as a tool not as my guru that must be obeyed. If im driving through Wales i use a 1973AA atlasat 3 inchto the mile. And ill work out a route that i want to take, single track unclassified roads, steep roads, roads on ridges with great views. The map shows a lot of detail and is os based and has plenty of spot heights. No contours. Then i put itinerary planning shortest route so i tell the satnav EXACTLY where i want to go, and its like having a local in the passenger seat,who knows the way over the hills to the next village on theback roads. But i start with the map, the map lives in the car, and its open to be consulted all the time and i know where i am because i see my position relative to progress so far. So the electric aid is nice. But the map is essential
I’ve scared myself into not relying on GPS only. The battery can and will die inconveniently. There will be no masts to triangulate your position. If you cover this eventuality by knowing about downloading a section of a map and using the phone’s ability to use satellite pings without a mast……A) you’ll find you forgot to download the section, or B) you didn’t download a big enough section. GPS is not the best last resort, a printed map is.
There's nothing more disorienting than waking up on a canoe trip to a foggy day. Even a cloudy day will mess you up if you're in a maze of islands. In the canoeing "community" you'd be mocked for relying solely on a GPS. For hikers though, I feel like it's the difference between people who want to build knowledge and be self reliant, vs people that don't care to learn. Just going for the quick pay off... And that's certainly okay if it's the first couple of times out. But at some point I would think a person would want to know how to rely on themselves. It's no fun just following a blip on a hand held computer and satellite system. There's no personal development. What kind of outdoors person isn't interested in understanding their surroundings and the way through them? Of course, if you have the knowledge already then a GPS is fine for ease, but you can't tell me it's not more rewarding when one does the navigating themselves.
Cell phones are not GPS devices. They use triangulation between cell phone towers. GPS involves satellite communication. Can be blocked by tall buildings, etc.
A thought - to the question 'where are we?' 'here' is an answer that is always both true and useless. That is what Gps gives you. The map will tell where 'here' is ... and so where to go next.
In total agreement here. I’m ex military and also a big fan of tech and gps. However if you can’t read a map proficiently, you definitely won’t be able to use gps apps or handhelds properly. I think your channel is brilliant- not just for navigation but for the historic insights. Oh and the sandwiches!! 😎. All the best. Clive.
Agreed entirely, I live within a couple of hours walk from Kinder Scout and have had people with GPS maps on the plateau asking me where they were. What they meant, they wanted to know how to relate the position to the (clearly) visible features around them and where they wanted to go
I've always regarded GPS as a backup, especially for reassurance and position checking, never as my primary navigational tool. Very thoughtful insights. Thank you!
I am the same
Yes same, often use it to self check after asking myself 'that' question...are we there ??. Great training aid.
I don't trust gps, I know it's supposed to have come a long way. At least a map and compass doesn't have a battery to go flat
I'm a fell runner so love navigation, in Wales GPS is still banned in all fell races as it should be and I hope that never changes. Living in Snowdonia I come across lots of people using GPS on their phones, but to be fair they stare at the screens with a confused look on their faces the majority of the time, I've found the way people explore has been massively effected, because on the whole most hikers simply don't explore any more, most follow a pre-set route they loaded into their app the day before, and this has changed Snowdonia at least, as now more than ever before, people walk the same paths up the same mountains over and over, meaning the traditional busy areas have become much busier and the traditional quieter areas have turned into ghost towns. But one thing which irks me a little is I always have a map in my hand while running as I use the fell running technique where you fold the map and hold it with your thumb marking your last known position, so I find I'm regularly asked by GPS users if they can have a look at my map, and of course I oblige them politely with a smile, but inside I'm thinking "Carry your own bloody map!" 🤣 Rant over, love your videos!
Was on Pavey Ark earlier this year, lovely clear day and two hikers wandered towards me both staring at their phones and occasionally standing still to do a 360. They asked me where the summit was. I said it's the highest point that you can see (we were already on it) and they said thanks and walked away still looking at their phones. I'm not sure what to make of that but it was amusing.
Ok, so a few years ago (possibly more than a few) I used to instruct RYA nav courses, I always commenced the course with a little speech about teaching 17th century nav techniques, even though the candidates envariably would use GPS plotters when ever they set out, but the thing is that good grounding in a skill/technique/knowledge, provided the candidates with support base which allowed further development, I have a machine that can cut dovetail joints... but knowing how to cut them with hand tools makes me a slightly more competent. More power to your elbow sir, let's maintain a skill set which enhances the use of modern tools. thanks for a great channel. happy new year long may you prosper.
Same answer as why to learn making fire with flint and steel: in order to become proficient, you need to be aware of your surroundings, actively searching for resources, for landmarks, for clues, then you are more aware about a deer, a flower, birds chirping and you will better observe the scenery. I think it is the "being there" that might be lost on the screen.
Just started learning navigation with map and compass ( at the tender age of 60) thanks to your channel i can see my new super power developing rapidly. Thank you 👍
We spend a lot of time outdoors camping in wilderness or remote areas. We look for wild orchids, berries and mushrooms all of which lead us away from the beaten path. We do a lot of remote canoe trips. A few years back, I got lost in the dark on a lake searching for a remote campsite. I had a poor map and a bad compass. Yes I had a phone but it was dead. This was my motivation to see if I could brush up on my map and compass skills. I was very happy to find your u tube channel. Definitely the most useful and entertaining. LONG LIVE THE WAFFLE! Yes I use a map app on my phone but there's nothing like the sense of security that comes from having skills with a map and compass.
as someone who uses both maps and phone GPS for navigation in the woods, it's important to understand that your phone uses up battery much faster when you're in areas with no or low service. if you're planning on being outside for many hours, or even days, it starts to become less easy to assume your phone will be available to help you find your way. i always carry a paper map with me as backup, and i pull it out to use for navigation sometimes just to stay practiced at using it. the paper maps have the benefit of being able to show you a much broader area at once, because it's bigger than a phone screen. that comes in handy if you're trying to decide a route that goes a longer distance.
Just an aside here, your phone will not use up more battery if you turn on airplane mode when you're out of range; it'll last a lot longer that way than it does when you're at home or in a city, in fact, as the cellular, wifi, and bluetooth radios will be turned off. GPS will work fine but you need a good offline app to use with them.
In practice a battery dying is a very good reason. I nearly had that happen when taking a route where a footbridge was broken, adding an extra 5 miles to my round walk. That's what convinced me to learn map reading.
I learned to navigate using map and compass in the military (Sweden) and the teaching was very similar to your approach. I agree that it gives you independence and map reading skills. My best reason is that the map is larger than the tiny screen on the phone which in bright sunlight is pretty hard to read. GPS has its place and used in a navigator app in a car infotainment system it's superior to the map when you drive alone.
I learned rudimentary land navigation when I was a soldier in the Canadian artillery. Now, forty years later, I restudy it for fun. It's a great way to keep your brain sharp.
I take part in multi-day/night adventure races whereby gps devices of any kind are not allowed. Map and compass only. Your channel has been absolutely invaluable as a tool to brush-up on my navigational skills. Keep up the great work😊👍
Your preaching to the converted. Yes, i was in the military. Very well explained. All the best for the New Year.😊
GPS is an amazing tool. I'd love to see you do some videos about using it alongside a map and compass. I did this the other day, I saw a mountain in the distance and was wondering what it was. I was able to take an accurate bearing of the mountain with my sighting compass, and then in my gps app draw a 25 mile line from my location in that direction. It went right over my mystery mountain. I don't carry a map that shows stuff 20 miles away and my phone is bad at taking accurate bearings, so in that case, gps app and compass was a great combo.
The skill of using a map and compass to navigate connects you to your surroundings in a way that GPS equipment never will.
I use a GPS device to log my distance travelled, average speed, time on the move and to check my coordinates if needed.
I find it more fun to use a map and compass than a GPS.
I use a GPS on my hikes because I find it hard to get good maps of the areas where I hike. Would love another video on the history of the building you where near. Amazing stone work .
Retired military here, and I can't tell you the number of times people who should have known better went wrong with GPS. I don't even use it unless it's to make a position.
Hi Wayne!! You will never be replaced!!! You’re way too awesome!!! You’re the reason why I love your channel and content!!! I have learned so much from you, have applied your knowledge and skills and it’s an awesome feeling!!! You’re an awesome inspiration and amazing teacher!! We love you!!! Thank you so much!!! Strength and honor my friend be well!! Merry Christmas and happy new year!!🎊🎊🎉🎉👍🏿❤️💯💯 from Washington state 🇺🇸
I am ex Navy Surveyor and I know to read a Navigation Chart. I am also a mountaineer and trekker and I am not that good a map reader and that why I subscribed to you. I love how simply you explain things. We use google maps here in India and 25% of time that will lead you to a blind alley or bad road. Its cool to be able to read a physical map and find your way, especially when you are hiking deep in the mountains. OSMaps are far better than GMap.
You can't plan a route on a screen when all small roads and details keep disappearing when you zoom out
That is definitely an issue I found with os maps on my phone
13 years ago, I went on a 5-day bike trip to Paris with a route booklet and without mobile internet. I took a simple baseplate compass 'just in case', but ended up using it all the time. It became second nature to use it and I brought it with me on many subsequent trips. It did however mean stopping at many a crossroads. Using a GPS device, as I do these days, does take some charm away, but it allows for significantly more kilometers per average day. Still, being able to use a compass is a great skill to have.
Apart from your great argument that map reading skills are simply a superpower, the best I can imagine is that electronic GPS aids are only conceivable in an advanced form of a "guiding light", which explains all the data to the user on his mobile phone and guides him/her through the digital map. But this application will not come for a long time because it is not economically viable. Nobody will invest money in development if it doesn't pay off. The military perhaps? Until then, the map and compass will remain irreplaceable. I think...
It will need you, Wayne! Show us that superpower :)
There is great satisfaction and joy in using a map and compass and having mastered the skills to do so effectively over using an electronic device. For me its a big part of what makes hiking so enjoyable. Its a bit like reading a real book over listening to an audio-book online. A map encourages you to look around and be very aware of the landscape around you instead of having eyes glued to a screen. One of the reasons for hiking is to get back to nature and away from electronic devices and also develop your inherent skills.
Well I am very keen on all related to navigation by map and compass for the same reason I am very keen on film photography and darkroom developing. And it is not because I can't use or don't have an iphone , gps and a digital camera. It's just more fun.
Happy New Year Wayne!
When I was younger I did some off track walking in Australia. It is nice to be able to look at a map and decide that this a possible route, we will go across and down a spur to get to a creek and waterfall, and then we will head up the creek, and if it gets too difficult then there is a spur we can head up on. One of teh problems people do seem to be having is that they can't recognise this on their GPS, so they just keep trying routes that don't exist.
If you believe in backing up critical gear then you want to take both. And relying on map and compass at any point in your system means you need to be proficient with it. And that means it should be your primary means of navigating while hiking in order to grow and maintain your skill, and to conserve your GPS/phone battery. The only reason not to use map and compass is to save a bit of time, and if you're trying to rush to your destination while recreating in nature then you're doing it wrong.
Recreate 🤔 what are you making.
@@alangordon3283 Recreate has two meanings. One is to create again, the other is to take leisure
I have been a map nerd since I was a child. My father was a conservationist for the government and always had maps around. Learning more about them in school made me enjoy them all the more. In my early adulthood I got to use maps professionally working for an ambulance service. It has always struck me as odd that some people do not know how to read maps, or grasp the concept of navigating. I believe those people lose out on understanding a lot about the local environment and lay of the land. Just following the commands given to you by a small box doesn't teach much.
Land navigation is FUN! It’s also miles more than anything GPS can replace. GPS might give you a fix, but can it help you make decisions, route choices, navigation strategies? Land navigation is much more than “where am I now?” More to the point, land navigation is a vital part of how human brains evolved and using those skills keeps us alert and smart as human beings. Did I also mention, ITS FUN! What other reason would you have to go out on wild nights and low visibility days to find some obscure features and have an adventure on the way? GPS is ok as a backup, like a dictionary for once you have completed the crossword. But for goodness sake, don’t just look up every clue! Journeys are about the journey. Don’t miss out on learning and using land navigation!
Sussed from the first frame you were quite local at rivington.
Personally, I get a little “buzz” from (nearly) always knowing where I am on a map.
But having recently done some technically difficult orienteering events, there’s room for improvement.😂
That IS fine navigation.
Love the channel.
The path at the side of Pigeon nailed it for me.
As far as I remember, the Footprint maps we used to hike along the West Highlands Way had useful information on location's risks during things rapid weather change (e.g. Ben Nevis had temperature fall to 2°C in August, seemingly good sides for an overnight camp flooded within hours, the old military road which is an easy hike won't be visible in valleys when swamped and covered in dense fog). This can be life saving information. While other sources like tourist informations and locals could provide that, it seems a good start to have maps for _hiking_ esp. as a beginner who doesn't know what to research beforehand -- navigation is just one aspect.
Sun glare and rain are a nightmare for smart phones. They become really difficult to use.
Never had a problem with sun or rain with my iPhone or my Samsung.
@SpudUna higher end screens are pretty good with sun glare but every touch screen no matter how posh the phone I've used is useless when wet.
@@leejohnson3209 I agree on useless when wet. I live in the Lake District so I’m familiar with wet. But it is possible, even in heavy rain, to operate a phone.
This debate is also often heard between water sports practitioners. The GPS vs map/chart and compass.
Using both in tandem is good practice (Regulations expect mariners to use all available means to be sure of position).
Using a chart plotter (or even just a phone) is very convenient but enxourages lazy habits The authorities would hope that navigators plot gps derived positions onto paper at intervals.
In an incident enquiry a passage plan and trip details in the log could be used in evidence.
As for celestial, the US navy is said to have changed direction sharply of late.
It had reduced the watch level of qualified to a very low level until someone twigged that even the most robust system could fail. (The "Iranian kid in his bedroom with a laptop" kind of thing)
Now apparently the Navy have resumed earlier levels which is i think one qualified on the bridge on every watch.
Good job they realised before it was too late - that a pencil and eraser are key tools in navigational practice.
This series by The Map Reading Co is excellent and is highly entertaining.
GPS is my primary, because I don't go places where getting lost is life-threatening. If I did then I'd absolutely also take a map and a compass. I don't want to die because I dropped my phone...
I use sheet maps for transit studies in cities and for general planning of a holiday. A sheet map lets me see the entire region and store that idea in my head. Then when I'm riding the 49B eastbound I already know that we cross with a 111South that will take me to .... The same must apply to rambling. If I have studied the sheet map ahead of time, then I'll know that walking down any local stream will take me to the railway line and civilization. A sheet map lodges itself in my head and gives me the broad view I need not to get lost.
I lost my gps when my phone died after a dunking. I spent a night in the open after getting lost. Nowadays I am a qualified seaman and have learned to read charts and to navigate without GPS. I still use and love tech, but a basic knowledge of manual navigation can be a lifesaver.
It's not just about way finding but also about enjoying being in the landscape as opposed to merely traversing across it. With map reading skills you can look at the land around you and put names to features, get ideas about things to explore, where to go to find the best views, where to find shelter when the weather gets too spicy.
During a mountaineering course we practiced map reading as well. Interestingly, I found map reading much more difficult in mountainous terrain. To 'map' the mountains you're seeing around you at various distances to a bunch of contour lines on a maps is not easy!
Great points as a Geologist who grew up using okd school topo maps it makes sense. Without that knowledge the map on your screen doesnt make much sense.
We climbed Ben Nevis last year and according to my phone we were in the car park all day
I use both 'paper' maps and GPS (Memory Map) for hill walking, Green laning, simply wandering! and interchange as required between paper and phone as necessary, phone (Google maps/Waze) in the Car/Landrover mostly, paper for simplicity and walking. In both situations one is a backup for the other.
Fully agree tks for all the info and history insights great channel ☘️
Working with ES I had cause to look for data in respect of incident positions. I was amazed to find so many incidents in the North Sea and Europe (way outside of my local gov's remit!). The cause: GPS and OS map refs data had been incorrectly adjusted to each other becoming, effectively, meaningless ...and worse!
I never get lost, my wife always tells me where to go 😂😂
I still like to use a map and compass; not only to be able to choose my own route but also because at brew o'clock / lunchtime i like to open the map up and compare it with the surrounding area - naming of peaks / looking at possible future routes., things like that This is easier for me with a map, rather than scrolling around a wee screen. On top of that, I think using map and compass keeps the mind sharp. GPS are extremely useful, and i carry a basic one as a security blanket in winter to help in whiteouts. However, i do fall into the 'old' category, and still think map and compass are cool...
2:30 "...you can lose a map and a compass..." One of my pet hates is seeing someone with their compass tied onto their mapcase - lose one: lose both!
I do use my OS map app on my phone when leading lowland walks and sometimes HM walks, I plan the route on the pc and its on my phone as well but always take a map and compass with me.
If you get your map wet it will still work and if you drop your map down a hill it won't break. I carry both but prefer using a map.
GPS is in the pack.....map and compass skills are the bread and butter of being an outdoors man....Sergeant Instructor APTC Rick Carey
The background photos may have been taken where people have been saying but, on my screen and to my eyes, this was filmed in a studio with the pictures dropped in in post
I'd put more trust in an old 1" OS map than in a piece of electronics liable to be affected by a strong solar flare.
I can't even truly rely on my phone maps in an urban setting. Goodness know how I would get on in open areas such as you traverse. It is definitely worth having a proper up to date map. Having said that, my OS map of Malhamdale is some 35 years old now. But, the footpaths and geological information has not changed . I would still take the map.
OS maps loaded into a gps device BUT bring a printed copy of it. Os maps has the option to do this. I use gps on longer walks where I want a decent pace. I usually spend a lot of time studying the map of the route on a computer, then I draw on the route I planned on my paper map. I find that way I get to know what I'm looking for when I'm in the hills
As I am a bit older, I grew up without GPS. Therefore I am already firm with maps, and I still prefer them. With sailing GPS is very convenient, but you still need a map. The disadvantage of chart plotters and GPS handhelds is, that you have no survey, and you cannot write on them. Of course, I have a GPS, the Garmin 67, and I use it rather often, but for micronavigation, where 1:25.000 is too small. That is in residential areas, or when many places simply post their coordinates on the internet instead of more or less cryptic charts. Another useful function is, that you can log your trail for further usage. But that can be obtained with a simple GPS logger the size of a USB stick. I got one, too, such things are not sold anymore, and it is a nice insurance, when actually lost, because you can pinpoint your location on the map withou any navigation, at least if your device can handle the local system :-).
Don't put all your eggs in one basket, a map gives you a big picture , personal choice.
The more interesting question is: Where did you film this video? Looks like a very interesting destination.
www.rivingtonterracedgardens.org.uk/what-to-see-and-do/the-pigeon-tower/
@@TheMapReadingCompany Thanks!
Id learn the basics of map and compass reading just to learn something. Like cooking. The joy of the art. Also in edge cases where phones die or there is no signal it would mean the difference between life and death. Knowing you COULD look after yourself in that scenario is just a fun thing to imagine. Not quite prepping because the buy in is so low. Just an old art.
I have a Garmin GPS device ( Etrex 35t) with full Uk maps installed (talkie Toaster) , I plot my route using my computer/ tablet using free software and download it to my device ( including escape routes) but I also learnt to use a map and compass too.
You are my hero!! Have you ever been to Patagonia, Argentina?
No, sorry I have not.
I use a map and compass the batteries never runs down in them
I tend to mostly do long distance off road bikepacking these days. Not practical to bring a paper map for each area we ride through so use a phone and apple watch mostly and download maps. Always have power banks too. So, always have 2 methods of navigation.
If out in a smaller area I take a map. Being proficient with a paper map is still very important in my opinion. 😀
My brother and sister are up in the mountains every week without a map and compass, both alone with just their GPSs, i think they are both mad and have told them so, i myself am in my fifties and always use map, compass and tally counter with the gps just as a backup that rarely gets used
You and your cans of worms. My argument is both a 'scare tactic' and a 'be reasonable and be prepared' tactic. Calling map reading skills a 'superpower' is a form of enticement appealing to people's hubris, I think. It can turn people off, particularly if the 'superpower' is flaunted over the less skilled.
I enjoy watching your videos because there is so much to learn, even if it is only a refresher of what has been shaded by lack of practice on my part. Being able to read a map, to decipher its numerous symbols, is a skill that places that person at a level of confidence that surpasses that average person who simply looks at point a and point b. Combined with compass skill and star navigation, we can relate to explorers and map makers, who actually saw the landscape as it is. Nature has so much to offer. Explorers, outdoor adventurers (fishermen, hunters, geologists, orienteering enthusiasts,), and professional outdoors people all rely on map and compass skills first and foremost, the GPS is but a convenience to verify location and time travelled.
Well, that's my rant. Hope no one was scared by it.
I watch off-road recovery (towing) channels. They make a fair amount of work by pulling tourists in rental cars out of places GPS led them into.
Am I right in thinking the location for the point of the red arrow on the map at 03:40 is SD 91453 68414 or thereabouts?
Where is this place? Where was this filmed?
Rivington, near Chorley, Lancs
. It's a great area with Rivington Pike, Winter Hill and Great Hill all superb walking areas
Putting 100% reliance on one method of navigation is risky...the further out you go the more risky doing that is..whether its electric or paper. I have seen paper maps get lost or somehow get wet and disintegrate over miles in a backpack. Having more then one source for navigation is a wise idea. A compass and paper map are great skills to learn and one could argue learning to use modern navigation systems in this age are also great skills to learn.
I just like maps and old school skills.
I had Garmin handhelds for years. Then one day on the release of a new model, the position icon grew so big it practically would cover an entire village ! I gave up with Garmin. Luckily I still kept my older model. I use the OS app on my phone now. But that has limitations. I still carry a compass though. Or an analogue watch
Looks like filming at Rivington Pike, Horwich. I trust you had a great time.
The first point you made, about the GPS app just showing a map, means the map and compass are obsolete because the phone IS a map and compass and you use it in essentially the same way.
Everything after that was basically non-sequiturs. The phone doesn't know the weather, or who is afraid of heights? Ok. Does the paper map know that? No. Nothing has been lost.
Honestly I would say that concerns about battery and such are much more valid that anything put forth in this video.
Lets face it, you are never going to get quality waffling from a GPS unit!
In all seriousness. A map and compass enhances my experience while outdoors. A GPS can be convenient, but looking at a little screen is far less appealing.
Best wishes
Al
Former Land Surveyor here (Someone who used transit machines, both GPS and analog, to create the maps people use). Under NO circumstances should anyone ever place full trust in a GPS unit. Even the ones used for professional work can and are wildly inaccurate and unreliable.
I never carry GPS as it will be more interested in tracking me than it will be in accurately tracking the topography.
Did I mention batteries? Imagine the weight and chore of 10 days in the woods trying to feed the juice when a half ounce map will do yah fine.
Anyone new to this realm please take the advice to use your brain and eyes and NEVER think twice about it-
I hike at night. You can't tell when you are without GPS.
During the day I use both, and GPS makes learning how to use a map easier.
I don't own a GPS or any navigation apps. I do everything by map and compass.
Tech will never replace paper and needle in my book.
Learning to use a map and compass effectively for those venturing into the outdoors is an essential survival skill that they should know. There really is no argument to this basic
Saya sangat setuju dengan apa yang anda katakan
Salam Dari Indonesia
Saya adalah Pramuka dan seorang land nav enthusiast, beberapa video anda memberi kan pencerahan kepada saya
Terima kasih banyak, video video anda sangat menginspirasi
My father taught me the use of map and compass at an early age. Later, in the Rangers, I did a lot recon in S.E. Asia. After all, Rangers lead the way, right?😉
Maps don't need batteries. Never looses a signal. And are far more reliable for details of the area. If one is fully dependent upon GPS in a cell phone, I feel sorry for you .
GPS is never a main tool when in nature!
It's always a backup.
Phones lose battery , signal, gps connection, can be lost or broken... 😊
Insightful observations! Can you tell us about the site where you are standing?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terraced_Gardens,_Rivington
@@TheMapReadingCompany Thank you!
The ironic thing about people who think they can get by with a GPS is that most of them can't even use their GPS effecitvely.
They turn left when they should have turned right, because they don't know where north is and can't do map to ground (which in urban terrain is trivial) so they can't orient their electronic map.
The Uber delivery driver that called me and asked me whether to turn left or right just astounded me. He coudln't understand why I was asking him "which direction are you facing" and that "I am facing forward" was not a useful answer. This is a guy whose job was navigating.
The other thing that people are forgetting - and although it is becoming more widely known now with the war in Ukraine - is that the GPS satellites are vulnerable. Even without jamming or someone actually attacking the satellites, the horizon for satellites can be too narrow to get enough satellites to get a fix. E.g. in cities with tall builgings, under forest canopy etc etc.
People can't even wear proper footwear when traversing off a paved footpath, let alone learning to read a map
Thanks!
Thank you Ray, I really do appreciate it.
Maps and compass do not run out of battery power
I’ve got lost/confused navigating solely with a GPS.
In the US the nat geo physical map is the best for walking around national forests
Using a map makes you appreciate your surroundings, GPS are ideal to test your map reading skills. I do use OS maps app but if raining the touchscreen becomes pretty rubbish not to mention that you maybe wearing gloves that will need to be removed.
I’m a map & compass man, I wasn’t in the military, neither am I.. oh🤪
Must admit I'm a little lazy, I use the OS app to pinpoint my exact location, then find that location on the map before using the map for navigation.
Not in the same league as its roads but ill use a satnav as a tool not as my guru that must be obeyed. If im driving through Wales i use a 1973AA atlasat 3 inchto the mile. And ill work out a route that i want to take, single track unclassified roads, steep roads, roads on ridges with great views. The map shows a lot of detail and is os based and has plenty of spot heights. No contours. Then i put itinerary planning shortest route so i tell the satnav EXACTLY where i want to go, and its like having a local in the passenger seat,who knows the way over the hills to the next village on theback roads. But i start with the map, the map lives in the car, and its open to be consulted all the time and i know where i am because i see my position relative to progress so far. So the electric aid is nice. But the map is essential
And if u drop your phone and the screen breaks 🤷♂️
as Led Zepplin stated 'when the Gps breaks you aint got no place to stay
I don’t need GPS i can fly.
I’ve scared myself into not relying on GPS only. The battery can and will die inconveniently. There will be no masts to triangulate your position. If you cover this eventuality by knowing about downloading a section of a map and using the phone’s ability to use satellite pings without a mast……A) you’ll find you forgot to download the section, or B) you didn’t download a big enough section. GPS is not the best last resort, a printed map is.
very well said, but it is not fun to use a GPS, it is however fun exciting and enjoyable to use a map and compass
There's nothing more disorienting than waking up on a canoe trip to a foggy day. Even a cloudy day will mess you up if you're in a maze of islands. In the canoeing "community" you'd be mocked for relying solely on a GPS.
For hikers though, I feel like it's the difference between people who want to build knowledge and be self reliant, vs people that don't care to learn. Just going for the quick pay off... And that's certainly okay if it's the first couple of times out. But at some point I would think a person would want to know how to rely on themselves. It's no fun just following a blip on a hand held computer and satellite system. There's no personal development. What kind of outdoors person isn't interested in understanding their surroundings and the way through them? Of course, if you have the knowledge already then a GPS is fine for ease, but you can't tell me it's not more rewarding when one does the navigating themselves.
Perspective
Cell phones are not GPS devices. They use triangulation between cell phone towers. GPS involves satellite communication. Can be blocked by tall buildings, etc.
Most smartphones these days are gps devices. And they don’t use cell tower triangulation
Note from Ukraine: GPS can be jammed or even spoofed. And very often it will be.
A thought - to the question 'where are we?' 'here' is an answer that is always both true and useless. That is what Gps gives you. The map will tell where 'here' is ... and so where to go next.