Another reason to look at Vanguard Spearhead: RAW, the Ravenwing Champion can take the lone operative enhancement, which makes the unit untargetable. Because the Ravenwing Command Squad is not an Attached Unit, the whole unit then gains the benefit of lone operative.
Wow, yea, I’d never considered the wording on LoneOp to use the wording «this unit» rather than «this model»… LoneOp Ravenwing Command Squad is a real thing!
As a BA player it's where losing our JP priest hurts because we could throw 10 man bricks of JAIs or VVs with a priest into DWKs and hit them with like 50 AP2 D1 attacks that wound on 3s, often with +1 to wound, so even with AOC they were still saving on 3s and the -1 damage was irrelevant. (plus a load of mortals as well) Can still do it on foot I suppose, 10 AIs with with Sanguinary priest into a DWK unit on an objective will be hitting with 52 S6, AP2, D1 attacks, with lance, oaths to re-roll hits and full wound re-rolls on the objective. That unit is also only 240 pts, is OC21 and even if they don't kill the DWKs, the 5+ FNP will upset their 2 damage attacks. That unit will do about 17 wounds against AOC DWKs, so would leave on wounded DWK swamped by 11 guys.
Yeah, i dont think thats good enough. Ive been running 2x5 knights, cpt and chaplain. 10 infiltrators, 2 invictus, ballistus dread, gladiator reaper, 3 bgv w judi in drop pod, tech marine, and azreal w 3 icc and apothecary.
@andyrobinson2077 yeah, that's annoying. Not saying it's a delete button, but I'm still pretty sure between Mortal Wounds, meltas on the chest, Fists, and a reasonably high toughness, it's a reasonable answer. All of this of course banking on the units being equipped with the usual power swords.
Rad Cohort Admech with Kataphron Breachers. 25 shots of dam3, AP-3, with sustained and lethal hits, full hit re-rolls, followed by 12 melee attacks also at AP-3, dam3, with lethal hits and full hit re-rolls. If they have cover and armour of contempt, 3 die to the shooting and the rest die to the melee. If they lack either cover or armour of contempt the shooting alone can just wipe the whole squad, although realistically kills like 4 and wounds the 5th
One counter: damage 3 weapons... My game against a tyranid player was incredibly annoying because they just seem to have a TON of damage 3 sources, especially in melee where this just mercs any effect from -1 damage without any FNP roll to screw with it. So comically, Damage 1 on mass or just bring damage 3. I do feel of detachments, Gladius is the most all round good for DWK spam, however I am wanting to test out Vanguard. Though right now I am currently testing a meme with Fire discipline Reivers. Deep Strike with 20 attacks that have precision could mean that if you want to, you can remove problem characters from units fairly easily paired with Storm of Fire. This is my testing of a unit I want to deal with Black Templar Crusader blobs where the issue is their access to 5+FNP is just nuking any decent answers.
It's in the rules that even though they don't specifically say you have ranged. Every class has ranged attacks. Edit: Everyone can be eligible to deploy teleport homers or eligible to shoot as is a requirement of the secondary. You just need the ability to shoot*
Buffed bloodletters, particularly when led by Bloodmaster, absolutely wallop DWK. Drop them near Skarbrand, and toss on one Rendmaster buff - those boys melt real fast. 36 attacks wounding on 2s, rerolling 1s at 3 and 4 damage is a hell of a thing.
As a long time player of deathwing, and i disagree with the best way to defeat knights. Volume of fire. Im not going to roll 20 saves, and not roll a bunch of 1s. Volume of fire 0 ap, 1 damage mass of attacks destroys knights faster, and more reliably than anything else.
Just a shame you can't buy them from anywhere any more, they've been out of stock since they released, even the warehouse in Nottingham hasn't had them in stock
Yes, read their datasheet. "If a Character unit from your army with the Leader ability can be attached to a Terminator Squad, it can be attached to this unit instead."
Best counter is wait for the imminent nerf. Unit is straight up undercosted. Yes, you can deal with, but it requires disproportionate effort compared to their cost. Triple deathwing is 705 pts… I don’t think there’s any army that can really answer it without committing like twice that value, and even then, it isn’t guaranteed
those who complain about dwk, really don't know Dark Angels, since this is the only unit they have got to use other than ICC. Basically DA got dwk to contest objectives and ICC to do dmg. End. So you better start think about how to list in case you face DA than cry about it. There are far more scary armies to play against. Of course you gotta understand who to focus and why in order to beat them. Brainlessy charging a brick of 15 is always a bad choice. Also they get watered down by volume of fire and melee. Once you kill 3 models, 2 dwk aint't doing a lot. So only at the start is harder.
Yeah this is what has been pissing me off about everyone complaining about DWKs. We’re a 47% winrate, so if GW takes the nerf thunder hammer to us, congrats, we’re dropping below 45% unless everything else gets massively buffed to compensate (like Lion down to 270, ICC down to 160, Azzy down to 85)
@@BurnByMoonlightIt might be 47% overall but if you look at the stats for DA Gladius specifically at recent events it's more like 55%. I fully expect DWK to take a hit as they're an easy auto-include x 3 in every list.
Can't believe I had to listen to his annoying voice to listen to what he had to say about the best detachment. Why would you NOT take the inner circle task force? Come lads is there anyone not playing that if your da? Using characters to get the dw keyword on other units ie hellblasters etc
I've been loving the dwk inside ironstorm. Having the ignore mods potential on them is massive especially in the dark angels mirror.
Another reason to look at Vanguard Spearhead: RAW, the Ravenwing Champion can take the lone operative enhancement, which makes the unit untargetable. Because the Ravenwing Command Squad is not an Attached Unit, the whole unit then gains the benefit of lone operative.
Are you talking about taking a command squad on its own and not attaching it to anything in order to get that loophole to work?
Wow, yea, I’d never considered the wording on LoneOp to use the wording «this unit» rather than «this model»… LoneOp Ravenwing Command Squad is a real thing!
@cruelmole that's right. This only works on the command squad by itself.
As a BA player it's where losing our JP priest hurts because we could throw 10 man bricks of JAIs or VVs with a priest into DWKs and hit them with like 50 AP2 D1 attacks that wound on 3s, often with +1 to wound, so even with AOC they were still saving on 3s and the -1 damage was irrelevant. (plus a load of mortals as well) Can still do it on foot I suppose, 10 AIs with with Sanguinary priest into a DWK unit on an objective will be hitting with 52 S6, AP2, D1 attacks, with lance, oaths to re-roll hits and full wound re-rolls on the objective. That unit is also only 240 pts, is OC21 and even if they don't kill the DWKs, the 5+ FNP will upset their 2 damage attacks. That unit will do about 17 wounds against AOC DWKs, so would leave on wounded DWK swamped by 11 guys.
@@tajj7 You'll kill 3.5 DWK on average if they use AoC
3x5 jump assault and 3x5 dw knights plus the biologis eradicator death star are showing up EVERYWHERE.
Interestingly, my love of Brutalis Dreads tankshocking things give me an answer.
@@KokNokerexcept when they play their watcher in the dark and get a 4+++ against mortals
Yeah, i dont think thats good enough. Ive been running 2x5 knights, cpt and chaplain. 10 infiltrators, 2 invictus, ballistus dread, gladiator reaper, 3 bgv w judi in drop pod, tech marine, and azreal w 3 icc and apothecary.
@andyrobinson2077 yeah, that's annoying. Not saying it's a delete button, but I'm still pretty sure between Mortal Wounds, meltas on the chest, Fists, and a reasonably high toughness, it's a reasonable answer.
All of this of course banking on the units being equipped with the usual power swords.
@@KokNoker Most good players take 2x5 maces and 1 swords
Biggest weakness of the Deathwing knights,
Is poor rolling
As a DA player, I love the knights. Bit sad they got rid of the command squad though.
I feel confident that we'll see them again someday.
Rad Cohort Admech with Kataphron Breachers.
25 shots of dam3, AP-3, with sustained and lethal hits, full hit re-rolls, followed by 12 melee attacks also at AP-3, dam3, with lethal hits and full hit re-rolls.
If they have cover and armour of contempt, 3 die to the shooting and the rest die to the melee.
If they lack either cover or armour of contempt the shooting alone can just wipe the whole squad, although realistically kills like 4 and wounds the 5th
One counter: damage 3 weapons...
My game against a tyranid player was incredibly annoying because they just seem to have a TON of damage 3 sources, especially in melee where this just mercs any effect from -1 damage without any FNP roll to screw with it. So comically, Damage 1 on mass or just bring damage 3.
I do feel of detachments, Gladius is the most all round good for DWK spam, however I am wanting to test out Vanguard.
Though right now I am currently testing a meme with Fire discipline Reivers. Deep Strike with 20 attacks that have precision could mean that if you want to, you can remove problem characters from units fairly easily paired with Storm of Fire. This is my testing of a unit I want to deal with Black Templar Crusader blobs where the issue is their access to 5+FNP is just nuking any decent answers.
4+ inv save*. You misspoke here. Thanks for the DA vid
It's in the rules that even though they don't specifically say you have ranged. Every class has ranged attacks.
Edit:
Everyone can be eligible to deploy teleport homers or eligible to shoot as is a requirement of the secondary. You just need the ability to shoot*
Buffed bloodletters, particularly when led by Bloodmaster, absolutely wallop DWK. Drop them near Skarbrand, and toss on one Rendmaster buff - those boys melt real fast. 36 attacks wounding on 2s, rerolling 1s at 3 and 4 damage is a hell of a thing.
The shadow war veteran enhancement were only available to phobos character
Yeah - and it is effective when used in conjunction with units like DWK
Breachers or scions with buffs
Yo trevvy when you coming to stream in N. Carolina again ?
They would be better balanced with slightly less attacks (like -1), or ws 3. Tankyness already is a very good feature
As a long time player of deathwing, and i disagree with the best way to defeat knights. Volume of fire. Im not going to roll 20 saves, and not roll a bunch of 1s. Volume of fire 0 ap, 1 damage mass of attacks destroys knights faster, and more reliably than anything else.
I've found the hellhound's inferno cannon to punch quite hard into knights
RIP Command Squad
Any thousand sons data cards coming?
th-cam.com/video/oF7u5syy74k/w-d-xo.html
Witch stream did you get the images from the john lennon game? was trying to find it so see. Thank you :)
th-cam.com/users/live210i10j7ZCQ?feature=share
Where are tou getting the access to +1 to wound?
They're almost always run in Gladius which has lance, or via a terminator Chaplain.
Can you use them with imperial guard via Allie?
Not currently no :(
Thanks
Love my DWK. Expensive but worth every point.
Just a shame you can't buy them from anywhere any more, they've been out of stock since they released, even the warehouse in Nottingham hasn't had them in stock
I hate that codex marines cant have fun due to non- codex being so powrfull.
Can you attach a Terminator Captain onto the DWK? Didn’t think you could …
@@stuartmortimer3922 you can
Yes, read their datasheet. "If a Character unit from your army with the Leader ability can be attached to a Terminator Squad, it can be attached to this unit instead."
Best counter is wait for the imminent nerf. Unit is straight up undercosted. Yes, you can deal with, but it requires disproportionate effort compared to their cost. Triple deathwing is 705 pts… I don’t think there’s any army that can really answer it without committing like twice that value, and even then, it isn’t guaranteed
those who complain about dwk, really don't know Dark Angels, since this is the only unit they have got to use other than ICC. Basically DA got dwk to contest objectives and ICC to do dmg. End.
So you better start think about how to list in case you face DA than cry about it. There are far more scary armies to play against. Of course you gotta understand who to focus and why in order to beat them. Brainlessy charging a brick of 15 is always a bad choice. Also they get watered down by volume of fire and melee. Once you kill 3 models, 2 dwk aint't doing a lot. So only at the start is harder.
Yeah this is what has been pissing me off about everyone complaining about DWKs. We’re a 47% winrate, so if GW takes the nerf thunder hammer to us, congrats, we’re dropping below 45% unless everything else gets massively buffed to compensate (like Lion down to 270, ICC down to 160, Azzy down to 85)
@@BurnByMoonlightIt might be 47% overall but if you look at the stats for DA Gladius specifically at recent events it's more like 55%. I fully expect DWK to take a hit as they're an easy auto-include x 3 in every list.
Can the death wing knight have 2 ability weapon by custom the weapon attach on backpack?
Fire Dragons.
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Can't believe I had to listen to his annoying voice to listen to what he had to say about the best detachment. Why would you NOT take the inner circle task force? Come lads is there anyone not playing that if your da? Using characters to get the dw keyword on other units ie hellblasters etc
Tournament winrates with it are Abysmal.
Well considering it’s like 32% winrate in the competitive scene…
I play with my mates not tournaments I've done alright
@@boozeybatmanHe was speaking about it on the competitive scene, what you play with your mates is not relevant.
@@KingOfShanks competitive play it's what's nerving units