Tanking in D&D
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 ก.ค. 2024
- The Tank: A character role where we want to actually try to take the enemy attacks and spells. How do we do this effectively? That is the topic of today's video.
Timestamps:
0:00 Intro
2:39 The considerations of a tank build
10:02 How each class performs as a tank
16:44 Feats that can help a tank character
23:52 The build coming next week
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Oh nice, this must be a video about monks
Lol
Haha
LMAO
Perfect response lol
Ya know, i tanked and dealt more damage than our druid monk (who in one of those encounters used 2 wildshapes) but yet everyone was praising him but no one said shit about me
"In order to qualify as a Big Stupid Fighter he should be any character that actively tries to be the target of enemy attacks. For those who wonder why I would label this character as "stupid" regardless of their INT score - reread the previous sentence."
God I love that guide.
Great quote, 10/10
@@rafaelbordoni516 What's funny is I've probably played about as long as Treantmonk (I started in 1983), and we have very similar playstyles and views about the game. He just is much more articulate than I am and smarter about it all.
I feel like I'm reading my own thoughts that I haven't consciously sorted out yet when I read his stuff. It's incredible!
@@krunchyfrogg Same here. I've been playing since 1988, and hearing him codify my ideas into solid form is very comforting.
Whats wrong with trying to be the damage sponge? Rage and heavy armor/are made for such an occasion
Reckless Attack for Barbarians also has an additional benefit for the tank: it incentivizes attacking the Barbarian. If you are choosing between 2 targets and you have advantage against one of them, the one you have advantage against is a pretty nice target.
It's less ideal than something like Compelled Duel or the like which forces the enemy to attack you, and it comes with a significant downside, but it actually can be a good thing if you are confident you can weather their attacks.
Somthing I've found some what successfully from experience is that using that free actions worth of six seconds of speech can make a huge difference. Taunt, brag, insult, mock, increase your battlefield presence. Won't be asked to roll most of the time and more attacks are likely coming your way.
Yeah! It's amazing! I'm happy to see I'm not the only one who uses this!
Huh I'd like that as an ability
A Barbarian’s biggest problem is that low Wisdom save? Gnome Barbarian it is then.
Prof or advantage on all saves by level 2. Nice.
Or if you use treantmnks own feat just take the feat that gives you one more save.
RIP kneecaps
The best tank is a Necromancy Wizard:
1) Bring lots of Skeletons and have danse macabre and radiant sickness prepared
2) Grapple everyone, cast radiant sickness
3) ...
4) Profit
While zombies are better tanks, skeletons immunity to exhaustion mean that they can act as a -meat- bone shield until exhaustion sinks in. 😇
Skeletons die instantly with their 13 hit points and +2 bonus to CON saving throws, the iron golem casually strolls forward next round and casually lops off your head after rolling a 22 and 24 to hit.
Just catching up with a lot of treantmonks videos, loving them so far.
Unpopular opinion coming in:
Summon spells should be npc only (barring find familiar). They just break the game, take focus away from player characters, and slow combats down (which are already long combats in dnd compared to other ttrpgs).
I know a lot of people will totally disagree (which is fine, we all play the game to enjoy it) but all my interactions with summons have been a negative or neutral experience when they are used in combat. (Out of combat summon interactions on the other hand have been great fun...)
@@maltheopia Iron golems make two attacks per round, meaning you have a number of rounds comparable to how many pairs of skeletons you can throw to keep it locked down -1, and if you're any necromancer worth anything... You will in fact have more than four skeletons prepared for this.
I think that’s more of a controller
Ancestral Guardian Barbarian, Sentinel Moon Druid, Cavalier Fighter, Conquest Paladin are all excellent tanks
Our recent party had a tanking partnership: an Ancestral Guardian and a Conquest Paladin, both SwB. Barbarian took Resilient: Wis and Shield Master; Shield Master works really well against Dex saves with Danger Sense backing it up and is also good for both reducing reliance on Reckless Attack and controlling enemy movement, whether they are frightened in the Aura of Conquest or not. Paladin took War Caster and two levels of Hexblade, meaning they didn't need any more than 15 Str (to wear Full Plate) and also had Divine Smite Booming Blade as a deterrent against enemies that were immune to fear. It was glorious. Enemies that were susceptible to fear ended up stuck next to the Paladin, prone with their speed reduced to 0, unable to do much of anything while he smashed them to bits. Enemies that weren't susceptible to fear ended up drawn to the Barbarian because the combination of Ancestral Protectors and Reckless Attack meant they had advantage to hit the Barbarian and disadvantage to hit anyone else. A combination of Resilient: Wis and Aura of Protection meant saving throws weren't much of an issue for either of them, especially when the Barbarian was next to the Paladin. DM was throwing Adult Red Dragons at us when we were level 12. As soon as we burned through its legendary resistances and got it next to the Paladin, it was done.
I am making a Conquest Paladin SwB myself. Can you explain to me why so many people talk about the frightened + knocking target prone combo? If I as a paladin knock someone prone and they are frightened, they can still use half their movement to remove the proned condition, right?
@@baske4094 the key is the Aura of Conquest feature which reduces a frightened creature's speed to 0 and therefore prevents them from getting up from orone
Managing aggro in D&D is... interesting. Basically, you want to make yourself a more-valid target than allies, or that you are a bigger threat than the wizard that can kill you with his mind. All the while, you want to make sure you don't actually drop and become a liability.
Yes, the high damage of your attacks will do that
@@elgatochurro - True. But is _your_ high damage becoming more of a priority than the very-easy-to-kill sorcerer dealing just as much damage as you?
Or a better way to think of it, reverse the situation: if you have two enemies, both that deal high damage, and one of them is tanky and the other squishy, which do you go after first? The squishy one, of course, so that you only have one source of high damage to deal with.
To tank, to actually tank, you have to invalidate your squishy friend as a target. The enemy should not get to make a choice between you or them, it needs to be you or nothing.
Circle of the Shepard druid is best tank. I cast wall of flesh!
I dunno, I think the most important aspect of tanking is actually making yourself a target the enemy actually wants to hit. I think most intelligent enemies would try to ignore the summons and bee line right to the caster concentrating on them.
Which to be fair does meet my qualifications of making you a desirable target for an enemy
@@TheLikkittysplitt That is why you use your meat puppets to form a wall. Can't bee-line it if there are a half dozen dire goats standing in the way.
Circle of Shepards is just the best everything
@@dominicl5862 Circle of the Shepherd somewhat falls off in late T3 and T4 unless you allow Summon Woodland Creature cheese. A lot of smarter monsters can just rush and crush the CotS druid and unfortunately the base druid class doesn't give a lot of tools for self-protection. But for 99% of the game they're utterly dominating, as tanks or anything else. A pack of giant frogs and spiders out of a 3rd-level slot, backed up with the spirits and regeneration, will do more to control movement and tank than you could ever imagine.
_The Wall of Flesh has awoken!_
Since you used her picture for the monk, imagine if Beau took two levels in Bladesinger Wizard!
With Unarmoured Defence (21AC at the moment), Patient Defence (Dodge Action), Bladesong (+4 to AC) and the Shield spell (+5AC) she'd be next to impossible to hit (30AC with disadvantage). Two more levels in monk and she'd have Diamond Soul to gain proficiency in ALL Saving Throws so even save spells wouldn't be a problem. The only option left is a straight grapple/shove attempt, but she's proficient in Acrobatics as a monk and has advantage under a Bladesong.
The problem I've been having with my Bladesingers in the past is Bonus Action clog. There have been plenty of occasions I wanted to use a Misty Step or a Shadow Blade or activate my Flametongue but I couldn't because, well, Bladesong.
The idea of making this problem even worse by slapping Bladesinger onto a Monk just makes me lol. Yes, I would love to not be able to use Flurry of Blows until round 2 or even 3.
@@maltheopia the answer to that is to be the one who goes around starting fights rather than the one who goes around finding themselves caught in them. I'm not talking murderhobo so much as just a good alert perimeter and some choice scouting and information gathering.
Interesting idea, but Bladesinger is restricted to elves only
@@MrRobbinggood Even if your DM waives the race restriction, Monk/Bladesinger is a non-starter IMO even if you can swing the stats (which, unless you rolled like a badass and/or got a headband of intellect and your DM is generous with multiclassing rules -- YOU CAN'T) because of Bonus Action clog. The Monk is really greedy with bonus actions and so are Bladesingers, if YOU'RE LUCKY you'll have your character up and running by round two. If you roll poorly on initiative and/or face a situation where you need to use your bonus action for something else, like, say, Misty Stepping across a chasm the enemy might get four attacks before you can attack them with Bladesong + Flurry of Blows. That's unacceptable.
One question - how? If you just rolled so high for 3 stats (you somehow have +11 in Dex+Wis and +4 in Int), than almost any character can be extremely effective. But with point-buy this idea is nearly useless - you'll need high Dex and Wis for Monk abilities, high Con to just survive, and Int for Bladesong on top of it.
I would argue the fact that the barbarian is easier to hit than other tank options actually makes them a better tank, especially the bear totem with all of the resistances. Granting advantage to enemies to attack you against an ok but not insurmountable AC incentivises the enemies to attack you and whittle down your near endless health pool instead of going for the squishies behind you.
and u can use a half-plate adamantine armor (uncommon) to nulify crits, so reckless becomes a god tier aggro and damage tool
@@nekrosnekros9782 Good luck getting that adamantine armour though, most DMs i've played with will keep it faaaaaar away from my barbarians :')
Also, another brilliant combo for any melee tank: everyone knows about the polearm master + sentinal synergy, but you slap that badboi on a bugbear and you have yourself an incredibly effective mid range controller
@@Mike-gf2hv Sadly the bugbear just gets extra reach when they attack.
@@leonardoellis5033 Sure but if you can line up those two feats you end up with a 15ft range melee combatant which makes the polearm + sentinal combo that much better imo
@@Mike-gf2hv maybe rune Knight?? With free enlarge
Shield Master feat is also great for tanks
bonus shove on attack, shield armor applied to Dex saves and a reaction ability to negate half damage from successful saves.
It's a full package of defensive options.
I've seen several tanks in my DnD 5e career, but honestly, none was as much as annoying as a Ancestral Guardian barbarian (we do not allow multiclass at our table). He took Resilient(wis) at 4th level, and being a barbarian he was quite mobile (fast movement), he had advantage on Dex Saves and Initiative, his Con save was amazingly good, tons of hit points... This for being a barbarian of 7th level. Then there is the added package of the Ancestral Guardian archetype. He focused on the big bosses when the rest of the group cleared their minions. A true defender in action.
I have great success tanking as a SORCERER actually. The character specificially is a Storm Sorcerer 16 / Tempest Cleric 2 aasimar built as a gish/swordmage with plate armor and a greatsword; he happens to be the party's only frontline DPS and only tank with the others being a squishy crossbow fighter and spellcasters that are on the squishy side as well. As a tank, he offers the following:
- Good AC with his +3 plate, Cloak of Protection and spells like Shield and Haste [twinned on myself and the crossbow fighter for maximum effectiveness]
- Many damage resistances. He innately resists four damage types in radiant, necrotic, lightning and thunder, and with Fire Shield, Absorb Elements and even occasionally Blade Ward, aside from Force damage, he can compete with Bear Totem barbarians.
- Surprisingly high amount of HP thanks to good rolls and 20 con, at level 18 he has a max HP of 180.
- Great constitution saves, he automatically succeeds on most concentration checks and for those he doesn't succeed, he still rolls with advantage thanks to Warcaster and at least a +12 bonus.
- Devastating opportunity attacks with Booming Blade as a "pseudo-sentinel" effect
- Hitting him hurts the attacker because of Storm's Fury and potential Fire Shield
- Versatility. He can switch roles and playstyle easily, wether it is tanking, skirmishing, striking or supporting/controlling.
- and still, enemies need to bite the bullet and try to take him out, because he can keep the party alive with his Healing Words, he shuts down opposing spellcasters hard with Metamagic'd counterspells and damage numbers that break any concentration and generally is far too dangerous to be ignored.
Let me just say that when I read the phrase 'Twinned Haste' I felt the need for a shower. In a good way...but yeah...that's naughty!
In terms of tanking, I always love Shield Master.
The fact that you can add your Shield bonus into your Dex Save as well as if you pass the save, you can just say “lol nope” to that half damage, plus the ability to knock a target prone as a bonus action, it makes it much more reliable to use for those of us heavy armored folks who can’t invest much in Dex.
Add that and Paladin’s bonus to saves based on Cha and they’re great at soaking and preventing damage. Damage is a little smaller, but with smites and other abilities, it’d still get the job done
I was thinking about this for a barbarian, as they have advantage on Strength checks while Raging, which makes it easier to knock others down.
There is a limit on the Shield bonus, unfortunately, in that it only comes into play if you are the only one targeted, so not against AoE, generally. How common are single target Dex saves? The use a Reaction to avoid all damage if it would be halved is great, though, with your barbarian advantage on Dex saves- sorry fireball.
All that said, a Paladin's Aura and immunities are awesome.
I think the Armorer is also a great tank option, thunder gauntlet is a very strong feature
Something I never see mentioned in terms of tanking is the fiendish vigor eldritch invocation. In a combat heavy campaign, you can get dozens of temp hp per day at only level 2
You've given me some great ideas for a spear and shield tank fighter I've been wanting to play recently! This video and your recent one on the Oath of Glory Paladin both came out right after I was really getting into the character and looking for build ideas, lucky me! :)
Haven't watched yet, but going to guess Paladin is rated pretty highly because they are simply amazing #teampaladin
Oath of redemption let's you tank hits for your allies and send it back to the attacker
high AC access to 'compelled duel' & 'wrathful smite' on starting level is just instant tank setup. #teampaladin
Oath of the Ancients allows you to halve the magic damage you take! #teampaladin
Every time we start a new system, my wife always makes a paladin as her first character, or something close to a paladin.
I'm excited about playing an Oath of Conquest Paladin in a campaign that's starting in 2 weeks.
"They can just walk past the tank"
Yeah, if they wanna give me a free hit
Yes but that is still way less than is realistic.
@@DaDunge i can also grapple or shove them into the ground
Besides no one wants my greataxe in their face realistically speaking
@Minarchism4Lyfe the audacity of that statement...
@Minarchism4Lyfe imagine thinking a matiral classes weapon strike is "not a lot of damage"
What's even worse is they can just try shoving you prone and if you can't get back up they and every other martial character will have advantage on all their attacks
Is that still not a lot of damage?
@Minarchism4Lyfe 3k... uh huh...
While berserker has plenty of flaws, not being affected by frighten and charm effects until their rage is over is helpful
I'm glad you're doing this im coming towards the end of a long running campaign and ive been working on a Duegar Battlerager. I can't wait to see what tank build you make.
So I change the heavy armor master feat so it reduces damage equal to your proficiency modifier so at 20th level you get 6 damage reduction where at level 1 you only get 2 damage reduction
I do the same for my table. And i allow the damage reduction to apply even if the damage taken is magical if the heavy armor being worn is magical as well, as long as its uncommon or rarer.
Love that pic of the FFXII judges that you showed when discussing heavy armor master. They look cool, and are particularly good inspiration for role playing Oath of the Crown or Oath of Conquest paladins.
Barbarians are the best tanks, at leastin 5e, and here's why:
Highest hit dice and con to ac make for probably the highest hp pool in your party;
Resistances to a lot of damage when enraged (especially when bear totem);
Can kinda goad the enemy to hit you by using reckless attack (even more so if sentinel or bear totem are involved);
From a roleplaying perspective, an enemy is much more likely to hit the half naked person who's screaming with an axe in hand than the one clad in iron from head to toe turtling behind a shield. Monsters (especially intelligent monsters) probably know it's way harder to hurt the second guy.
Path of the Ancestral Guardians also has what i consider the only "hard taunt" in the game between Reckless Attack and Spirit Guardians. Advantage to hit you, disadvantage to hit everyone else, aggro managed.
@@Verbose_Mode bear totem does that too :v
Personally I run an Eldritch Knight as our party's tank.
Plate+1, Shield+1, Longsword+1. Dueling fighting style. Feats: Warcaster, Sentinel. Hits are seldom an issue. With the Shield spell I total about 27 AC and if an AoE is coming my way, Absorb Elements is there to help me out. Oh and I could also use Mirror Images if I need to. WIS is certainly the biggest threat for that character, but I have indomitable and I am aiming to get the Lucky feat at some point to improve the odds.
We have a second tank who probably is more effect when compared between the both of us but together it feels like we could hold a castle for days.
Plate+1, Pike+1. Defense fighting style. Feats: Polearm master, Sentinel, Resillient: Wisdom. He stops everything outside of my reach and I then tackle them so they can't run past me, while he moves in to stop more people.
It certainly is important to both be tanky AND being a threat, because otherwise they will just ignore you. Its also kinda funny because technically we are the opposite of the BSF. One because we rarely get hit, since we stack the odds to avoid that and second because we weave a defense line between the two of us which is really hard to get through, if we are in an enclosed space its even harder.
I consider shield master another good feat for tanks because it protects against dex saves and gives a bonus action shove
I think the Druid is a better tank than you think, because of the spell Conjure Animals. Normally a tank can't block off enough space to prevent the enemy from getting to their allies, but if you can summon 8 large, relatively durable creatures, you can often position them in such a way that your enemy can't get to the party members before they break through a wall of fur.
I actually think a great example of a tank is Grog from Critical Role. The reason is pretty simple, although he is tough as nails its moreso the very high damage output he has. The enemies have 2 choices, 1 leave him alone and let him tear through your allies, or try and put him down in which your having to carve through a ton of hit points. The best way too make it your allies dont take damage is to just kill the enemies. Now its true he can be banished or polymorphed etc, but he has some protection against CC from his Berserker Mindless Rage.
From a game design perspective, though, there's the problem of such characters being brokenly overpowered. Not saying that Grog is, but it's a concern with other tanks. For example, a Sorceradin has without question the best defenses in the game and A-tier or even S-tier offense. This makes them a great tank in practice, since they're top priority for monsters even if they don't control the flow of the battle, but then they overshadow the other characters.
They can't harm your party if they are dead
"Dead" is always the best debuff
Also the DM Controlling the enemies most of the time doesn’t act like the characters he’s playing in other words they readily sacrifice themselves to gain the other the tactical advantage as a first option not a last. And act in ways that are counter intuitive to what they should be doing based upon what’s happening in the fight, so saying that they will do this because it would be rational for normal human being to do this won’t happen most of the time because of the DM’s. Dispassionate overview
(and this is assuming your DM. Is not building encounters specifically to beat you or meta gaming the crap out of what the creatures do)
A good tank has to make themselves a threat rather than a rock that can be avoided.
Treantmonk! I've missed you. Just not as many videos lately, understandable. Glad to see you back!!!
Great video and very in depth! Looking forward to your next tanking video (my guess is a paladin of some kind, they got high AC, HP, and saving throws after 6!) I did have a couple things:
11:45 - 12:10: I agree but Moon Druid have a lot of beasts that have innate grapple/prone abilities even in higher levels. CR 1 - Giant Toad, Giant Spider, Giant Octopus CR 2 - Giant Elk or Giant Constrictor Snake CR 3 - Giant Scorpion all have innate grapple attack or AoE abilities. I think also just being a size Large or even Huge shouldnt be under estimated. You can straight up block hallways or entire sections of the map with your size and it much easier for your allies to 'hide' behind a 15x15ft Giant Constrictor Snake than a 5x5 BM fighter.
22:29 - the barbarian arguably gets twice the effectiveness of Tough than other class due to raging. And because the way resistance works in 5e the damage always rounds down, so there is always a 50% chance that the barb will 'gain' 1 hp over a non-rage user.
Man, i had read all of your 3.5 handbooks for years, had no idea you had a youtube channel!
Thanks, I’m eager to see next build!
I was thinking of a Rogue tank since you brought it up.
1 Level Knowledge Cleric for proficiency in shields and medium armor, plus expertise.
The rest Arcane Trickster. Take the Shield spell, the Find Familiar ritual and Booming Blade. Grab a shield and some Half-Plate, till your DEX outclasses the extra defense, switch to studded leather afterwards.
Feat: Warcaster, Lucky.
Without magic items you would have an AC of 19 base at level 5, 24 with shield. If an attack comes through you can half it. You can use your bonus action to disengage once you hit them with your sneak attack + booming blade at advantage thanks to your familiar. If they follow you and with your damage they want to, they will get zapped.
The strategy would be to jump into attack range, hit them with Booming Blade + Sneak Attack, Bonus action - Disengage, let them get zapped. Same if they try to lock you down.
All things considered that is a very tanky and dangerous rogue, though probably more of a secondary tank than a primary one. The lack of HP isn't exactly kind to a Rogue tank.
One of my favorites videos of dnd
Im playing for almost a year a the paladin was my jam
This video is a great tutorial
I have a Triton, Oath of Crown Paladin.
The Triton's innate spells of Fog Cloud, Gust of Wind, and Wall of Water are amazing for battlefield control.
The Channel Divinity option Champion's Challenge is also great for keeping enemies within 30ft of you.
Though admittedly, Oath of Redemption has better spells and 7+ level abilities.
Nah cuz at level 9 you get spirit guardians, which unless you allow unearthed arcana, only the crown gets this. It’s one of the spell for a tank build. You get aoe and you can slow people movement. You combine this with sentinel and bam, everyone can go fuck themselves. Plus if you aren’t playing al, you lose all your powers for attacking lost creatures as a redemption paladin.
Interesting note on Inspiring Leader, you're not limited on the number of uses per rest, only on who can be affected by it. Our bard uses it often on NPCs that are with the party (rescued prisoners for example) and even made some coin by inspiring platoons of city guards before a coming battle, giving rousing inspirational keynote speeches :D
When the party was attacked by two Earth Elementals (a difficult encounter for their level), the Dwarf Paladin with great AC and Dwarven Fortitude cast Compelled Duel on one and just dodged for the whole fight. The few hits he took were easily healed by Dwarven Fortitude, and it allowed the other party members to just focus on the other Elemental, making a deadly encounter fairly trivial. The display of tanking I have seen in play
A critique on your class rankings:
One of the best tanks in the game is a life cleric. A life Cleric has heavy armor and plenty of amazing ways to both mitigate damage and heal themselves. They are amazing at saving throws too. The only downside they have at all really is less HP, which is hardly insurmountable, especially when they just heal themselves for free as a part of any other heal spell (which are all enhanced to boot)
But what makes a life cleric a top tier tank is their dual identity. They are both the high-priority target, and the hardest target to kill. A smart enemy would typically want to focus the support, so just making the support also the team's tank makes it a ton easier to handle agro.
On top of this a life cleric will punish the enemy who ignores them in the best way possible. They can literally bring their whole team back up with their channel divinity action. And again with their heals working on both themselves and a teammate simultaneously, it's both in the clerics interest to be a target, and not as much a problem when he's not.
Last adventure the party made my caracter duel with the evil ogre king that had killed his family and made him a refugee for the crown. It was a giant ogre with magical armor, a magic weapon, and the eye of vecna, his DC was about 23. I was a paladin with heavy armor +1, shield +2, the mage used foresight in me, and i used shield of faith and improved chanel divinity from the oath of retribution, that gave me a reaction, every atack. He had + 14 to hit. Thanks to the mage he hit me twice, and i took about 80 damage, he just soaked all my slots, of divine smite, with two critics. It was dope, and he didn't manage to take half my life, because of the feat tough, that led me to have 204 hit points at level 16.
I'm SOOOO glad you mentioned Wizard as a viable tank. I'm really hoping that your upcoming build completely smashes the video game assumptions that don't work in d&d.
I believe he already posted a Hobgoblin Hexblade/Abjuration Wizard. It didn't have a ton to draw aggro, but it was damned tough.
@@lughfiregod16 drawing aggro is only one mechanism... the real goal is to prevent attacks against your allies. A full caster, with the Wizard's array of spells, is very good at this. The fact that he can do reliable damage as well is just icing on the cake.
I'm currently "main tanking" for my level 6, going on 7, party with my abjuration wizard/monk :)
Ward, mage armor, shield, staff or Defense, cloak of protection, patient defense, blur.
So far it's working out great. Secondary tank is tempest cleric, but he is leaning into damage.
We had a fighter who had to leave the group because of a move.
We picked up a divination wizard, so now I'm leaning heavier into the augment tanking and mobility and letting them take more buff/control.
No mention of Tavern Brawler!
11/10 feat on the right character like a grappler as a bonus action to grapple after a hit is a lot cheaper then a action & is a 1/2 feat.
Everyone ignores this feat but everything becomes a weapon from objects along with a d4 for fists.
On Grappler-tanks the tavern brawler is often a must have for action economy is king!
I my pathfinder campaign, I made a barbarian as the "Tank". I gave the enemies a reason to not ignore me, the sweet sweet damage that I did was great. That combined with some dr feats and abilities and superstitious for saves made tanking fun. The cyclops island was a bit tricky since they could once per day choose to get a crit, though they still had to confirm it, but my ac sucked. So they confirmed it a lot of the time.
Something of note I would like to add: many characters can be off tanks. What I mean by that is they're not your primary tank, but in one function or another, can serve as a tank.
I think an excellent example of this is my rogue/bard. Neither class is all that good at tanking, alone or together. But my swashbuckler/Lore bard can function as an off tank by way of skirmishing enemies with booming blade.
This can be done with Arcane trickster and mobile, but the idea is you hit them with booming blade and skirt out of their reach.
In my current campaign, we have a fighter and a barbarian. Both make exceptional meat shields, and with GWM/PAM/Sentinel, excellent DPS. What ends up happening is I can either kite an enemy while they are clean up, or for 2 equally big targets, I kite one while they focus fire the other.
Battlemaster Fighter w/ Goading Attack, Polearm Mastery and Sentinel makes you super effective at controlling space. You can even activate Goading Attack on thrown/ranged weapons to effect enemies who made it past you or before they even reach the party.
Also; that -3 damage from Heavy Armor Master really adds up when dealing with groups or enemies with multiple attacks.
I thoroughly enjoyed this video! I have always wanted to tank Indian tea, and if I ever had a chance to be a player in the campaign I would 100% be a tank. So this was super awesome to hear!
9:20 The Cavalier's Unwavering Mark works against every enemy they hit with a melee weapon attack, including Extra Attack, Action Surge, opportunity attacks, and its own triggered bonus action attack. They can only get the one bonus action attack per turn obviously, although in my experience that rarely get to use that part of it as the disadvantage on attacking others is a strong incentive to attack the Cavalier anyway.
The bad thing about Unwavering Mark is that it works only when the enemy is within 5ft from you.
Forge Cleric/Paladin Multiclass would make a pretty beastly tank. Spirit Guardians can deter a lot of enemies by effectively giving the player a large radius where enemies take large amounts of damage just by entering it’s range. That plus healing and restoration can be incredibly useful.
Spirit Guardians is fantastic. I believe Oath of the Crown Paladins have it on their list of oath spells, if you don't want to multiclass, plus it would then be cast with Charisma instead of Wisdom.
I had a Mountain Dwarf Arcane Trickster who wasn't to be underestimated at tanking, especially when he had a little help. I didn't have to focus on Dexterity since I had a breast plate and the shield spell. The extra feat @ 10th level helped a lot as well.
As a cavalier you can mark more tan one target as long as hit the enemies. Also there is a hidden mechanic that has worked for me from time to time and it is to mock an enemy or challenge them... talking cost no action and many times no dice is needed for it to succeed and from a role play stand point it is a great way to tank
Don't understate the Spore druid for tanking, I took it planning on being subpar in combat but an interesting take on roleplay, the 1hp zombies make for effective zone control as they still have the undead fortitude feature to keep them there, while the 4 temp hp per level quickly becomes a big buffer of hp for them to fight through. i boosted con up to help with hp and concentration, and you get wisdom and int saves to deal with the worst "save or suck" that having big con wont fix.
One way I've tried tanking in the past is to have some relatively weak but flashy spells as an Eldritch knight with a 2 handed weapon. Worked reasonably well. We also had a mounted Battlemaster and a variant human monk with tough, so we were pretty tough as a party.
If you have defensive duelist and already high AC it will prevent the few hits that slip trough, it is good enough to prevent that one attack a turn. And you can determine when you use it. So you won't parry that goblin with the dagger if there is also an ork with a maul next to you.
As for a finess weapon, just use a rapier you are probably using a shield too so it's as good as a longsword.
I'm currently playing a Mark of Warding Dwarf, Artificer 1/Wizard 1, planning on going 19 in abjuration wizard. 16 con, 18 AC (currently) and of course the full arsenal of wizard spells. Wasn't even planning on tanking with him but when I look at the numbers I'm startled at how effective he could be!
I'd love to see you make a battle smith tank since that's not what people are expecting.
A tank charcater I’m currently playing and having tons of fun with is a battlemaster fighter with 3 levels in bard for the college of swords, highly recommended, he also does respectable damage
RE: Artificers, UA has the Armorer, which is also decent at tanking. Heavy armor prof, Shield, Mirror Image, creatures you attack (if you use the "Guardian" model) have disadvantage on attack rolls against anyone other than you for their next turn.
That ua is dumB
Treeantmonk doesn’t read UA s (class feature variants is an exception because it could be a gamechanger if it got published)
Armorers as tanks would be comparable to battlesmiths, they have similarities.
@@ataberkdedemen9802 Heavy armor proficiency and ability to use int mod for strength checks are both very strong and either unavailable to battlesmiths or require a feat investment. Plus the shield spell and a few other goodies.
Barbarian Reckless Attack leaving attacks against you having advantage can also be viewed as a control effect, because you are providing incentive for enemies to attack you instead of party members.
You can afford to soak the hits, in theory, with rage and high con and your d12 HP.
Still hoping for a divine soul sorcerer build. They seem pretty tricky to build but with a lot of options and possibilities
the optimized Sorlock build (the sorcerer+warlock blaster build by treantmonk) is in fact a Divine Soul Sorcerer + Hexblade Warlock.
Blessing himself than Eldritch blasting is pretty dope (+d4 on every roll feels good man)
Halfling Cavalier who rides a blink dog, and has the polearm master, and lucky feat, with a dip into divination wizard. My first ever D&D tank
Heavy Armor master works nicely for an Eldritch Knight I think since they always have absorb elements to cover the other side of the damage.
I read this one guy once who used to call this role the "BSF."
"S" stood for....
Boris the Strong and Fair, right?
@@ponytail336 Exactly
My prime Pick is Oath of Conquest Paladin 7+, coupled with either Hexblade Warlock or Shadow Sorcerer. Because that allows you to do so much (ranged) damage that the enemy can't just ignore you and pretend you don't exist. The Problem with smites is that they encouage enemies to stay away from you. So you have to punish them for that decision.
So for my tank characters I tend to use the pole arm master and sentinel combo along with the tough feat to maximize power, and my DM is fortunately kind enough to give spears the reach property which allows me to use a spear and shield to great effect.
My Ancients Paladin is grouped with a Vengeance paladin that has already taken Sentinel. I have found my niche taking the Mage Slayer feat and leaning into being the spell damage sponge.
Barbarians technically get more bang for their buck from Tough thanks to their resistances, especially the Bear Totem.
One of my favorite tank builds of all time has 18 levels of wizard. I’m glad it’s not so much about your ability to take a hit as it is getting enemies off your allies, because otherwise a wizard would never be able to tank
Shifter Beasthide Circle of the land druid. You're a tanky self healing monster with a lot of control spells to restrict enemies , grant temp hp, or summon other things to aid you. And if you go coast then you even have mirror image which has always been powerful.
I play a 5th lv wizard tank (abjurer) that works quite well. It is a mountain dwarf with the heavily armoured feat which lets him have plate armour. With a +3 con I have a HP of 40 and 12 additional hp from the Arcane Ward. As for surviving he has no problem at all. At the moment he tanks by just standing in the way (only using melee cantrips for offense) but the plan is to draw aggro by using concentration spells. Then the enemies will either have to attack me or live with my spell for the rest of the encounter (and probably die with them).
As I use spells vary sparingly during combat (a shield and maybe another spell) I have a lot left for other things. That lets me bring a lot of utility to the party that keeps us safe out of combat. The spell knock is very useful when dungeon crawling (we are playing Dungeon of the Mad Mage) and Leomund’s Tiny Hut makes resting safer.
Other spells I have for tanking/utility that arcane tanks can think of using are: Expeditious Retreat, Absorb Elements, Hold Person, See Invisibility, Blur, Dispel Magic and Counterspell.
Don't sleep on Shield Master for tanking. The option to burn a bonus action on an attack for a shove is huge since most tanks have high STR and proficiency in athletics, you can push targets 5ft into traps, off cliffs, into their buddies, or just knock them prone forcing them to burn half their movement to get up or get attacked with advantage. Condition immunities aside, that's hard to ignore. Also RAW you can target one creature with the attack action, move, and use your bonus action to shove another creature since it does not say you have to attempt the shove immediately. It also fills in your DEX save weakness if you took Paladin or Barbarian by allowing you to add your shield's AC bonus to DEX saves vs. effects that only target you, and allowing you to use your reaction to turn a DEX save for half damage into a save for no damage. Any S&B build benefits from it because its only requirement is that you have a shield.
Making a Barbarian (5 levels) / Warlock character to be tanky. Gonna go for the normal sentinel and polearm master combo and this will be relatively durable character and spells provide nice options for combat and outside, with ways to rage (Armor of Agathys doesnt conflict with rage as well which is very nice)
I am surprised time was not spent on the important combination of Polearm Master AND sentinel. Sentinel alone only covers someone coming within 5 feet of you. With Polearm Master, that protection extends to 10', which is a massive increase in the radius of protection you offer as a tank, because now enemies are triggering opportunity attacks (which cease their movement with sentinel) when they enter your reach. So now you're covering 25 feet (5 squares) in each quadrant rather than 15 (3 squares), which is a big advantage. Polearm Master is a primary tank feat.
"Protection" from Sentinel (attack on enemy attacking your ally, if that's what you meant) has only 5 ft range, not depending on the weapon.
And you have only 1 reaction on all those opportunities. I personally think Sentinel + Polearm Master is overrated. There are so many ways it can be countered, so it doesn't even require DM to specifically try to do it.
My favorite tanking build is a Hobgoblin Abjuration Wizard with Warcaster, Resilience CON, & Moderately Armored Feats, that spams Vampiric Touch. Thanks to Hobgoblin's base proficiency with light armor, Moderately Armored gets you a DEX bonus, and proficiency with Shields/Medium Armor. Resilience CON + Warcaster allows you to add your proficiency bonus to CON saves, while also affording you Advantage on Concentration checks. And Abjuration Wizard just gets you a ludicrous amount of resistances, Wizard Utility, as well as an expanded HP pool thanks to Abjuration Ward. Finally, Vampiric Touch allows you to attack and heal on the same turn.
The build has decent HP once you factor in Abjuration Ward, and ludicrous AC with a shield, Half-Plate, & Shield Spell. Flat magic resistance is just stupid, and Vampiric Touch has plenty of insurance thanks to Resilience & Warcaster.
Hill dwarf Draconic sorcerer makes a viable tank. You have a fair chunk of AC, good hit points, you can cast booming blade, which you can also Twin AND Quicken with your sorcery points, you have shield spell and other spells that make your enemies frightened as well as your 18 level subclass feature. Also proficiency with Con save by default make you better at holding concentration. You could even go as far as having negative charisma and pick only utility spells and fully focus on dexterity and constitution and use your spell slots to get your sorcery points back for more booming blade action :>
Dwarven Fortitude Feat + Rage + Mercy Monk or Moon Druid to 'Tank' takes 300+ damage by lvl 5
Even better with an uncommon item= 'periapt of wound closure'
Druids can perform decently in the tank role by summoning many creatures, particularly if you can block off chokepoints so enemies won't be able to get the squishier members or will need to take many AoOs to do so. It also makes it more likely that you'll take "aggro" off your team members as intelligent enemies may target you to try to break concentration and dumber ones may attack whatever's nearest (i.e. the summons). Combined with control spell options for when summoning isn't a good idea I think they rate a bit better than laid out here. (Of course, they're not nearly as good once they're out of spell slots for the reasons you mentioned in the video.)
Figured you'd have made a mention of the new Shield Training feat. An instant +2 AC and +1 to a physical stat - oh, and something, something, material components - sounds like a good deal for anyone who isn't already proficient!
You could get the same with Moderately Armored feat before. Also half-feat, that gives you medium armor and shield proficiency.
Though it has a prerequisite of having light armor proficiency, so you can't take it for wizards or sorcerers, 2 of 4 classes that really need it. On the other hand, it'usually more profitable to get some multiclassing, if you are going to do tanking with those classes.
One other feat I might mention is Mobile. Mobility is typically important for any tank. Grapplers appreciate the extra movement, especially when grappling, and for classes that have abilities that work better when next to an ally (Cavalier and some paladins come to mind) Mobile might allow you to go out, attack an enemy, and get in the best position to protect your allies.
Hold on there. Moon Druids are really good at keeping their enemies in place. Giant Octopus, Giant Constrictor Snake, Giant Scorpion, and Giant Crocodile all have on-hit grapple, allowing them to easily stop a target, and all 4 of those forms are excellent combat forms as it is.
In regards to saving throws I’d say the Paladin with resilient had got to be king. You can either take resilient constitution to have two of the big three saves on lockdown or resilient dex to give yourself a strong chance of making and dexterity saving throws that might trip you up.
My favorite tank build is mark of warding dwarf artificer 1/wizard (Abjurer) X. Fighter hit points, access to armor of agathys. So good.
AoA is BAD for tanking though, like really bad for tanking. Because it causes enemies to not want to hit you.
David Peters I use it for added durability. I prevent enemies from attacking allies through control spells like web and slow.
@@silvle01 That's not a tank though, that's a controller. Which Wizards are great, but slow and web don't prevent enemies from attacking your allies and while they do encourage hitting you, you've made them less likely to with AoA
David Peters okay I’m confused how does web not stop folks to getting to allies? Tanking is control + durability. Using spells is the same as using fear or sentinel or grappling. I also use sanctuary on high value allies and can extend the arcane ward out to allies who do get hit.
its exactly what im planning to use.. u are the wizzard dm will want to atack u even if u have armor of agathys up.. for the simple reason that u are still the wizzard and therefore have insane dmg potential and are priotarget number one so perfect to compell for duell!
I thought of Strength-based melee caster with a 1-2 lvl dip into a Fighter or Paladin for heavy armor and shields. Main options here - Fiend Warlock (I just don't like Hexblade, plus Fiend has much more survivability-focused features) with Pact of the Blade or Abjurer Wizard with Booming Blade. Without focusing too much on casting stats, I will be able to grab some feats, and with abilities of (almost) full spellcaster, it will be possible to control the enemies and increase your own survivability, even if we ignore saving throw spells.
What do you think?
Seems comletely viable: Fighter is going to be better with lots of short rests, as action surge is amazing. Paladin better otherwise, really good burst damage and divine smite means you dont need to go for eldritch smites, freeing you up some options.
I myself went for a more unorthadox melee fighter. 5 levels into barbarian and rest into warlock. Theres a surprising amount of synergy here despite lacking spellcasting whilst raging
Conquest paladin, and cavalier fighter are tied for the two best tank classes and subclasses in the game in my opinion. The reason the conquest paladin is one of the best tanks is that paladin on its own allows you to add your charisma modifier to all your saves and you get access to the bless spell meaning saving throws are easily dealt with; as for reasons other than high AC, high HP, self healing, and the ability to punish enemies with smites you also have a reliable source of fear in combination with the pole arm master and sentinel feats you are capable of locking down large amounts of opponents and taking a lot of damage while doing a lot of damage your self.
In-universe thinking, the best tank then would seem to be the one clad in the most ridiculous looking armor so everyone assumes they're a total damage sponge, whereas what they actually really are is a squishy controller or glass cannon damage output machine. Enemies think to avoid them to get to the "squishy caster" dressed in wizard robes who is ACTUALLY the damage sponge (probably an unarmored barbarian) whilst avoiding the walking castle with the soft center. You'd have to have a DM that played along with the logic of course, but as a DM why wouldn't you play along if your players had come up with something like that. This is why I love watching videos like this - they always give me character ideas.
As time has gone on, I've settled into a somewhat selfish but I also think realistic approach to tanking, which is that everyone needs to be able to take care of themselves in a tight spot. What is more effective that trying to force enemies into attacking one player is to try to stop those enemies in the first place via crowd control effects and spells, or with good old fashion damage, while supplementing that with traditional tanking roles such as high AC or damage resistances. A sorcadin with an AC of 27 has no way to force enemies to attack them over the 20 AC wizard, but that wizard has their own options available for becoming a difficult target for enemies to lock on to, and they need to be utilizing them.
D&D 5e lacks a lot of options when it comes to being able to manage enemy aggro. Aside from specific subclasses and spells, the most a standard character can do is hope that the risk of an opportunity attack for walking by is a big enough deterrent that enemies will choose to remain locked in melee. This deterrent stops functioning entirely if the player uses their reaction for anything else, with a common example being the shield spell. This opportunity attack also provides little incentive if that singular attack is quite weak, with something like a monk offering almost no aggro retention since a single attack from a monk is overwhelmingly weak. Also, no enemy will run past a monk when monks are such easy targets. In other news, monks are bad.
As a squishy character, your hope should not be that the fighter, barbarian, or paladin are going to have any means of holding enemies in their range. Because they are not going to, and enemies will be trying to target you instead of your more durable companions. You should be proactive in staying out of range (enemies are usually less likely to spend two turns chasing after the wizard when that is two turns they could attack the fighter or paladin), as well as using as much crowd control to make reaching you as difficult as possible (such as walls of force or spells which disable enemies). And if those are not an option, you need to have some defense of your own. No character should skip on having at least a +2 con mod, and every class has something which lets them negate an amount of damage.
There are a lot of builds that can achieve massive amounts of AC, usually with the shield spell, and a common criticism is that these builds have no way of forcing enemies to attack them, therefore making their AC worthless since enemies a will just target their companions. And... yeah. That's the point. A build like that isn't trying to defend its allies, it's trying to keep enemies off of its back so it can do its own job in peace. Likewise, each member of a party should be utilizing their own method of defense. Without the inclusion of a dedicated aggro retention character such as an ancestral guardian, the only way to guarantee that no one in the party drops is if, in a pinch, everyone can take care of their survivability on their own. And sometimes that means enemies will just target the squishiest party member and kick their ass a lot, and there isn't always going to be anything the sturdier party members can do about it. It is what it is.
Correction for sentinal: when you hit an oppurtunity attack not when you make one, does it drop speed
I'd argue that dex it a third most needed saving throw. Most of Dex-based saves are "receive half damage ones" and are mostly elemental: fire, acid or lightning. A simple Ring of Spell Storing allows a character to do essentially the same.
I place Intelligence saving throws on the third place and Charisma saves on the fourth (both mind blasts and banishment are much, much nastier than plain damage)
Tanking is a mixture of defence and offence. Defence is about Hitpoints, resistances, immunities, saving throws and armour class, so that you can keep standing tall.
Offence helps you dish out sufficient damage for enemies to view you as the biggest threat on the battlefield. You must do this whilst blocking other party members.
Then there is speed. If you're too slow, other party members will be in the thick of things whilst you're still 120 feet away from the action. Damn Monk rushing in whilst you're way behind.
I suppose technically a Bladesinger Wizard or a Hill Dwarf Dragon Sorcerer with Resilient: CON/WIS and armed with spells like Web and Watery Sphere and even upcast-Fly counts as a tank. To me, though, a tank is a melee interdictor, not just someone who focuses attacks on them. I think this might just be academic, though.
I made a totem barian divinesorcerer multiclass after watching this video. Twinning Warding Bond and Aid is a free way to protect your allies while raging. 25% damage erasure with bear totem and warding Bond.
Enjoyed the video content!
Amazing video
When it comes to dnd I prefer at least 2 meat shields and a support caster with battlefield control. Those 3 are your “tank”. The group I’m running for does this and it works for wonderfully. Not the highest damage, but that’s fine if your not dying (:
Great video. How important is a designated Tank if all party members have decent AC? Like a group of clerics or fighter mages multi classes?
If everyone has a good defense, the tank is not important at all. It's really only valuable if you have squishies.
I feel that nets should be Brought up. If you can deal with the disadvantage it can prevent some enemies from hitting allies. A ensnaring strike + Net means they are restrained from two sources instead of one. This will be wasting 2 turns to escape and do damage at the same time.
Nets are an incredible pain to use, though. You attack at them with disadvantage unless you have a feat/set of options most tanks aren't going to want to have. They also can't be used with shields if you have Extra attack unless you already have the Net out before your turn starts.
I've used them before as part of a 'skeletons in fog cloud throw nets en-mass and hope for the best' gambit before, but it lets a lot to be desired.
I'm sad those video came out before the Armorer I'd love to hear thoughts on guardian tanks in direct comparison
Galaxy brain: the best way to tank isn’t to build around making allies harder to hit, it’s by annoying the DM enough that they focus you.
I'm on team Eldritch Knight. It has the hit dice, very high AC, feats, spells such as booming blade and mobility with the right spells.