Eldritch Knight Guide: D&D
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 มิ.ย. 2024
- In this video I go over the Eldritch Knight, the subclass abilities, but especially spell selection for an Eldritch Knight, which is limited largely to the evocation and abjuration schools.
I reference a Minor Illusion video, it can be found here:
• Minor Illusion Guide f...
I reference a Find Familiar video, it can be found here:
• Find Familiar Guide D&...
Check out my Patreon page here: / treantmonkstemple
Timestamps:
0:00 Intro
2:25 A look at the Eldritch Knight
9:13 Cantrip selections: Blade Ward
10:23 Cantrip selections: Booming Blade
11:47 Cantrip selections: Green-Flame Blade
12:51 Cantrip selections: Light
13:22 Cantrip selections: Mending
13:39 Cantrip selections: Minor Illusion
14:03 Cantrip selections: Mold Earth
14:23 Cantrip selections: Fire Bolt
15:09 Cantrip selections: Shocking Grasp
16:02 1st level selections (Evocation/Abjuration): Absorb Elements
16:48 1st level selections (Evocation/Abjuration): Shield
18:04 1st level selections (Evocation/Abjuration): Thunderwave
19:14 1st level selections (Evocation/Abjuration): Protection from Evil and Good
19:52 1st level selections (Open): Find Familiar
20:32 2nd level selections (Evocation/Abjuration): Darkness
22:30 2nd level selections (Evocation/Abjuration): Shatter
23:38 2nd level selections (Evocation/Abjuration): Warding Wind
24:59 2nd level selections (Open): Web
25:44 2nd level selections (Open): Dragon's Breath
27:29 2nd level selections (Open): Magic Weapon
28:29 2nd level selections (Open): Mirror Image
29:00 2nd level selections (Open): Shadow Blade
30:04 3rd level selections (Evocation/Abjuration): Counterspell
31:18 3rd level selections (Evocation/Abjuration): Dispel Magic
31:59 3rd level selections (Evocation/Abjuration): Fireball
32:24 3rd level selections (Evocation/Abjuration): Nondetection
32:55 3rd level selections (Open): Haste
33:45 3rd level selections (Open): Hypnotic Pattern
34:21 3rd level selections (Open): Thunder Step
34:59 4th level selections (Evocation/Abjuration): Fire Shield
35:33 4th level selections (Evocation/Abjuration): Otiluke's Resilient Sphere
36:39 4th level selections (Open): Greater Invisibility
Join my discord:
/ discord
Follow me on Twitter:
/ chrishonkala - เกม
In my games, I run the EK as being able to choose their 2 schools of magic, rather than being completely limited to Abjuration and Evocation, just to give players more flexibility.
I would adore this option. Having transmutation or enchantment as options would be so nice.
Ok, sure, but let me tell you the secret sauce, the secret ingredient.
You can just remove the restriction entirely
That's nice, I use 3.5 feats and rules when I run games my build was a slayer/sorcerer with ray specialist supplemented with utility spells
That’s awesome. Such an easy way to let the EK breathe and be themselves lol
This is a rly genius house rule.
I’ve always liked the Eldritch Knight archetype. Something about spell and weapon is cathartic.
Paladin: clears throat loudly
Being an EK is a lot of fun, especially when you combine fighter abilities and feats like War Caster. There's something great about going "I hit you and you, then turn around and light the three of you on fire."
Me, someone who loves this subclass:
Y E S
Eldritch Knights are so cool. It blows my mind how many people write this class off.
Booming/Green Flame Blade cantrips have done a LOT to make EK more viable
I think it's important that EK doesn't try to be redundant with a wizard, let your wizard cast area of effect spells, let them excel at that. And don't forget EK can cast any wizard scroll so you don't need to know Mending Cantrip, just have a Scroll with mending on it, you also don't need to know Find Familiar, you can just get a level 1 scroll for 25GP. The spells you need are what wizard can't cast on you and you'd need to cast quickly in combat like Misty Step, Shield and perhaps feather fall. Many ranged spells could quite easily be scrolls, things like Sleep, Magic Missile and Fog cloud
You can quite easily dump intelligence for EK and have all your spells either target yourself, targets allies or targets enemies without any attack or save. Or you use scrolls which use the scroll's DC/attack-bonus. But you could aim to obtain a Headband Of Intellect by level 10 (not unreasonable, it is an uncommon magic item) that and instantly turn your Intelligence from something extremely low like 8 to Int-19.
Remember, Eldritch Strike doesn't say it needs to be a melee weapon attack.
People sleep on that scroll use ability all the time.
Find Familiar Spell Scroll costs at least 35 GP though. Material Components that are consumed are added to the cost. And the 35 GP assume basic costs and someone in the party creating them (2whichbin turn means you have the downtime and all that).
The base cost for buying spell scrolls from what I have seen in official adventures is usually double the Xanathar creation cost. So a Find Familiar would be 60 GP. Later on pocket money. In early levels crippling.
Your point about the Darkness spell blew my mind. I had to re-listen to it 3 times.
I highly recommend _absorb elements_ too. My battle smith artificer was able to tank a _cone of cold_ like it was nothing thanks to that spell. Granted, he also had temp HP from Inspiring Leader, but that's just good teamwork.
Every time I play in a campaign with Inspiring Leader I am amazed at just how good it is.
What was your level breakdown?
@@jjbgmb719 I was artificer 4 at the time, I believe. We might have been level 5. Either way I had a 14 Con, never rolled for HP, made the save against the spell and still threw up _absorb elements_ to halve the damage, but also to give this gnome wizard what he's got coming.
@@clarkside4493 so when you level up do you get max hp or do you use average?
@@jjbgmb719 average. I never risk the roll.
Great discussion! I think there is a strong argument for an EK to go for blur instead of Mirror image. Here is an example from my last game.
I have a level 8 EK, AC 20(shield, splint, defense style), and I had to fight a gladiator. Gladiators have a +7 to hit, and attack three times each turn.
Using Mirror Image, I would have a 44% chance to get hit at least once across three attacks in the enemy's first turn. Using Shield, that drops to a 14% chance. After the first turn, I would have an average of 1.4 mirror images remaining.
Using Blur, I would have a 40% chance to get hit at least once in the enemy's first turn. Using Shield, I only have a 7% chance to get hit.
Even against a small number of attacks, Blur performs better than Mirror Image if you have a high armor class.
Mirror image is great on spellcasters with low AC that need a non-concentration buff spell. If your Eldritch Knight has the concentration to spare, Blur is the way to go.
I would replace it when I got haste but yeah you make good points.
Slow seems interesting to me for a frontliner as you can first attack 2 or 3 (with pole arm master for example) ennemies in order to get disadvantage on their saves and then cast slow with your action surge whilst standing in the midst of the crowd. They are seriously debuffed afterwards and you don't need to worry about them hitting you as much as before. Also it remains usable with other party members on the front line.
If they attack your familiar great, that's a wasted attack that could have been against your troops. 10GP and you get your familiar back.
It's not the easiest cost in the world to stomach at low levels, nor is the 60-70 minute casting time. I still think it's worth it, I just don't think the time expenditure or low-level cost makes it trivial.
@@maltheopia that being said fighters get some of the best starting gear in the game. It's not hard to take 2 greatswords as your starting equipment and sell them. Then you can buy a cheaper weapon and still have some left for additional FF casts. A bit cheesy, but it works.
Absolutely perfecting timing. I’m starting a Tiefling Eldritch Knight next week and definitely gonna reference this video multiple times.
Blindness! At high level, if you have a high Intelligence on your Eldritch Knight, Blindness! Action: Attack foe and hit him, then Action Surge and cast Blindness (he has disadvantage on save), then Bonus Action Attack (at advantage, he’s blind) and hit him again. His attacks are now all at disadvantage, he can’t see to cast sight spells and he has disadvantage to save against Blindness because of your bonus action attack hitting! Then you hit him some more, at advantage! Then he misses you more and chokes his save again due to disadvantage! Get the picture?
I’ve played this in adventures league and it works. I got my intelligence up to 22 and even huge monsters struggle with DC 20 Con saves at disadvantage...
@@jeremywillis7042 That's just nasty. What a combo. I'm assuming you have improved war magic?
Josh Chappell Yes. Prior to getting IWM you attack first round, then second round you cast Blindness, action surge, then attack again...
@@jeremywillis7042 That's a fantastic combo. It's pretty satisfying that casters who aren't full casters can have more clout with their lower level spells being more accurate. Even if they don't make quite so powerful effects, the enhanced accuracy makes them potentially more deadly (aside from portent instafail). Also a testament to how fantastic the Eldritch Knight's action economy is. They really have their cake and eat it too.
I just realized something I forgot to mention... Blindness doesn’t require concentration!!! Hello?!
One of the characters I play in Adventures League is a Dwarf Eldritch Knight. Even though I've read a few guides on the subject I knew you were going to add some points that most of those guides would miss. Thank you for making this. My wife just made an Arcane Trickster,. She can't wait to watch that video!
I think you missed an opportunity to talk about the sword burst cantrip. It actually will out pace the other cantrip or extra attack actions if you can target 3+ enemies.
Shiled Master + Tavern Brawler + Booming Blade with a Shield as an improvised weapon....
Throw in the shiled as a.weapon bomd + Catapult spell
This is the best captain america build combo i've seen yet!
It takes action to take off shield, unless you use new UA feat.
I can't believe you didn't talk about hold person, that's an amazing spell comined with Eldritch Strike, your enemy has disadvantage on the save if you hit them beforehand and if they fail they become incapasitated which means you'll make all your melee attack against the target with advantage and every hit becomes an automatic critical and remember spell's can crit too so your green flame blade damage will become critical too
Yeah, imagine an Action Surge on a Held Person. Nasty stuff
I was surprised that Misty Step (until Arcane Charge) and Fly weren't mentioned, at least for melee builds -- though Thunderstep was, so maybe that was deemed sufficient for mobility.
Yes, I'm too surprised that Misty Step wasn't mentioned.
I also would have added sleep to the list for low levels. One spell slot to remove 2-3 enemies is pretty good, and I might swap it out by 3rd level.
@@godsamongmen8003 The problem with that is the E.K. doesn't "come online" until Level 3, so by the time you get access to the spell it's too late.
@@bigdream_dreambig Crap yeah, I was thinking like a full caster.
Misty Step is pretty amazing after getting Arcane Charge too. Ambushing a large enemy or a group of enemies as a teleporting whirlwind of death causes an interesting expression on a DM's face when you do it the first time.
Bonus action Misty Step from hiding spot to the enemies.
Standard action for 3-4 attacks.
Action Surge for another round of 3-4 attacks.
Arcane Charge away.
Movement action to move out of movement range of enemies, find full cover, lure into a trap made by the rest of your party, block off escape, etc.
With the Eldritch Knight/Arcane Trickster I'm always tempted to take the Ritual Caster feat or dipping in Wizard. Having extra spells known, including Find Familiar is great, as you can use the 1st level free pick to choose a higher level spell later.
A 2 levels dip in War Magic is great. Get an extra boost to Initiative and a reaction for a +2 AC or +4 Saves is life saving !
Really excited for the arcane trickster next week, it’s one of my personal favorite subclasses and I think it gets immense benefits from spellcasting.
Some particular favorites of mine include:
- Find Familiar as your first level unrestricted spell. This lets you generate advantage with no drain on your action economy which is incredibly useful for a rogue in particular because it lets them sneak attack while using their cunning action for pure utility.
- Shadow blade is somewhat campaign specific but if you can reliably expect Dim light or darkness then it can function as a melee weapon that grants advantage with no needed drain on your action economy, or a thrown weapon that requires your bonus action, but does still give you that advantage guaranteed. Either way it’s a nice spell to take since it’s illusion and not taking up one of your limited unrestricted class spells.
- Haste is very nice for ATs because it lets you really push the rules to get heavy damage output. You can use your bonus action to gain advantage in some way, attack with the haste action to activate sneak attack, and then use your standard action to ready an attack for your familiars turn when it takes the help action. Since that is a new turn sneak attack can be used again, letting you nearly double your damage per round. Some DMs don’t like this sort of bending around the intent of the rules, but it’s certainly worth asking.
- Rope trick is a spell that I think you never want to use but you probably want to have if your role in the party is one where you’re alone in dangerous situations often. It’s probably not the spell you’d want to take when you first gain access to second level spells, but might be one you’d want to get later on if you replace that unrestricted spell you got at 8th level.
- booming blade does not have any disadvantages for arcane tricksters, as they only attack once anyways. Rogues can disengage and fall back as a bonus action. This way, you can force your enemy to get the extra damage, at least if they are limited to meelee. You can also combine this with spells like shadow blade.
Especially if I head a Headband of Intellect, I would definitely consider picking up an attack spell or two for my Arcane Trickster.
I'm not sure about the choice of nondetection if it's being used solely to overcome see invisibility/true seeing. In general, monsters that sees through invisibility has blindsight/truesight/tremorsense by default so nondetection won't help with that. Also, it has a costly component which is consumed so that's gonna burn a hole in your pocket every day.
In most campaigns, by the time an EK could cast this spell, 25gp is going to be spare change. That being said, I agree with your other points.
I would think at that level it would be worth it to seek out a magic item that does this if you want to use it all that often. I remember a campaign where my character was being hunted and I had an amulet of non-detection made. That prevented the unwanted scrying.
Thank you for adding the notes and time stamps! I love your videos, and I’m excited to learn about your spell selection for arcane tricksters next week.
Enlarge/reduce is another good spell for an Eldritch Knight, particularly one focused on grappling
Seriously. My polearm master gets an extra d4 on all his damage rolls, and if initiative makes it viable, he shoves someone down so other melee combatants have advantage. And, of course, when the rogue can't get a door open....
Yeah, and even if you're not *focused* on grappling, you might want to do it at particular times, and there's a bunch of other useful things you can do with it too, including using it as a debuff if you've imposed disadvantage. Can be really useful *against* grapplers, and against enemies relying on numerous weaker attacks. Overall it's just a really good, flexible spell.
Glad to see a video highlighting the strength of the EK. Writing an article of my own on the topic and this has given me a couple pointers I hadn't considered.
Please credit the video creator.
My D&D group has used shatter for collapsing ceilings and the like. Sometimes (usually) on top of enemies.
Thanks for keeping the content coming at such quality!
This is going to be a great watch, I know it.
Bro Literally my first thoughts.
I don't usually build fighters. But when I do, I use treantmonk.
kylas with badlurs gate 3 in the coming. I cant build an all wizard party so this is useful or could i...? :)
@@CaitSith87 I mean couldn't you? Not sure if you can fill the whole party with custom characters. But regardless I'm so hype for BG3. Remember to gather your party before venturing forth.
kylas as i was relatively young when i played bg1 and i played an all mage party and Further as i had no idea what this weird d8 and 2d6 meant i probably did no spec my charas optimal, I had to cheat a lot to win the game and with a mage only party. Also as i spoke almost no english then even cheating was not so easy.
@@CaitSith87 LOL I "cheated" used game guides for BG 1 and 2. No shame. Also if you haven't you should play Divinity Original sin 2. An all mage party 100% fun and deadly.
Spellswords have been my favorite way to play RPGs for ever, so I'm excited I can do this, just started playing like 2-3 months ago
I want to give this extra upvotes becuase you put in the time stamps.
The main use of weapon bond is that you can wield a shield and weapon at all times and still cast spells. You drop your sword as a free action, you cast your spell, then you bonus action bring the weapon back to your hand so that you are always ready for opportunity attacks. Why does it seem like no youtuber ever mentions this when talking about the eldritch knight?!
This definitely is an option but it clogs your bonus action use. But by using it that way you can get by in earlier levels. Once you get war magic you'll want the bonus action for the extra attack after a cantrip. So at level 6 or 8 you might want to take War Caster to get around the somatic components and free up your bonus action. At higher levels when you have more spells with material components you can use it again though. Although still better to offset this and keep your bonus action by using a Ruby of the War Mage if you can get one.
I like the concept of using weapon bond to sneak your sword wherever or have it whenever you need. Part of me wishes you could dismiss it and summon it back like a pact weapon though
That's A Very Nasty Idea, lol...
Perfect timing, I just started an Eldricht knight!
If said Eldricht knight was any other fighter archetype, he would be dead. Several times over. Absorb Elements has saved my ass. DM popped a surprise round fireball on us on level 3. Would have straight up killed him if it wasn't for absorb elements.
Playing through EK atm, some thoughts regarding weapon bond.
As suggested this is great for weapon switching, however an interesting weapon swap I use is 5ft-10ft reach weapons. The 5ft weapon is typically stronger (e.g greatsword with great weapon fighting style) but having a 10ft reach can allow you to 'capture' enemies within attack of opportunity range you haven't otherwise engaged. Useful for controlling/tanking multiple enemies while maximising your damage output.
My unoptimized use of weapon bond was setting up a "test of strength" con.
"Step right up and test your strength. All you need to do is pull the staff from my hand".
Talk about timing, and your devices listening to you. Going to be doing OotA soon, and want to make an Eldritch knight. This video was great. Straight to the point and you have good reasons why or why not to take things. Subbed. Keep em coming.
Will do!
Thank you, I am playing a fighter Eldritch knight for the first time, this helped me build my character, to make itto😅 more effective! ❤
Such an excellent guide! Thanks!
Im currently playing an Arcane Trickster. Looking forward to next week’s video.
Well, the great thing about 'Magic Missile' is it's guaranteed damage and at ranged, because that means it's a great way to break a pesky Wizard's concentration.
But back to cantrips, certainly Green-Flame blade can technically do more damage, but fire is a well resisted type in DnD, so I think it's a better bet to go for Booming Blade instead.
As for casting spells as an Eldritch Knight, I've found that it's best to take the Defensive fighting style and simply using Versatile weapons (which is a particularly good combo if you're playing a campaign where you aren't being allowed to use feats).
Very useful. I find it so hard to think of a fighter that is not a battle master. It just seems the spells are competing with your actions where as a battle masters ability’s compliment the fighter ms actions.
Thx for the timestamps
I'm more than a little surprised whenever I see someone recommend eldritch knight players taking save or suck spells. With standard ability score options, it's hard to have an eldritch knight with more than 13-14 int until tier 3 (you're still a fighter and need to max str/dex and probably want to take a feat or two, and it's hard to build a character at level 1 with stat investments that will do exactly nothing for you until level 8, which may be 6-12 months of gameplay away. I often hear recommendations to build the EK with 8-10 int and just ignore spells that depend on your spellcasting modifier), so by the time you get to the level to cast a save or suck spell (EK only gets 2nd level spells at 7th level and can't take a spell like web until 8th level, and hypnotic pattern comes at 14th level), the spell is underleveled AND the saving throw is often much lower than what a normal caster would get against monsters of that level, so monsters are going to make their saves at a much higher rate
Given how weak the spellcasting is of the EK in tier1-2, with only 7 total spell slots even at level 10, it feels like there should be 2 different eldritch knight guides: one for tier 1-2, when the optimized EK is just a basic fighter with a few daily casts of shield/absorb elements (both of which have somatic components, so you can't use a shield RAW as an EK), a familiar, and booming blade; and then a second guide for tier 3-4 that is openly acknowledged to be irrelevant because games rarely go that high.
Ah Eldritch Knight, my favorite Subclass >.
Oooooooh, I've been waiting for this one! Great to see your take on this. I'm somewhat surprised you didn't mention Enlarge/Reduce for the open 2nd level slot. +1d4 damage per attack for a character that attacks as many times as a Fighter does is pretty big game IMO.
Aside from the really big fights, it's rare to see a single combat go more than 2-3 rounds. First round you're gonna be getting no attacks, so then you've got one or two rounds where you get... a d4 per successful hit. Ignoring crits, that's realistically topping out at 6d4 extra damage, which averages to 15 damage if you've got 3 attacks per round. Using your action to stab the enemy/enemies 3 times (going with the high utility end of things) is gonna be 2d6+5 three times (with a greatsword or maul), 1d8+7 three times (one-handed dueling), or d10+5 3 times (heavy crossbow w/crossbow expert). Other weapon combos exist of course. Still, that's 36, 34.5, and 31.5 damage assuming the 3 attacks per round. It's an awful trade off. Convincing the sorcerer to burn a quickened spell on that? Sure. The sorcerer has valid cantrips to cast as an action. Or, heck, the sorc can blow sorcery points to twin Enlarge and make another beatstick bigger too. Blowing a 2nd level slot AND the attacks that go with? Bad trade. It's basically 4 rounds before you've managed to even start to break even. I'd rather blow a 2nd level slot and action on an upcast burning hands (assuming targets are in range) or, better yet, keep my action for stabbin' and use a bonus action for Dragon's Breath on my familiar. An owl that flies about spewing whatever element I figured would work best? Heck yeah!
It's unfortunate, but the cost of an action puts Enlarge in the realm of "hyper niche" for an EK.
@@napoleontheclown I would counter by saying that with a familiar and other characters doing some scouting, getting the drop on enemies or knowing when you will enter combat is pretty easy, in which case you can cast Enlarge pre-combat. At least, it's been easy for me thus far.
@@lordduskblade I'd personally still go with dragon's breath on my familiar if I'm gonna be concentrating on a 2nd level spell slot. Keep the owl out of revenge stab range of the enemy, get close, and blow action surge to get 4-6 attacks with advantage (assuming the enemy is surprised on my first round). Using GWM or sharpshooter take the -5 to hit for +10 damage, have the owl strafing. That's gonna be a hideous amount of damage. Now... If someone had put a greater invisibility on me? Then that might tip the balance in favor of getting the extra d4 per attack instead of an owl with a mean case of halitosis.
Generally, I don't like the idea of being a front-liner that's relying on a concentration spell. Your job is, in part, to draw fire. A DC 10 con save (for 21 damage or less) is trivial for most fighters by this point, but a bad roll is never impossible. I will grant that Enlarge has an advantage in that you can be a low-int EK without losing any effectiveness for that spell. With the 1 minute duration, though, you really need to be just about in range to spring your trap. There are definite uses, but it's a pretty niche spell that relies on the right party composition and tactics. The wizard would honestly be better suited to being the one to burn one of their "precious" 2nd level slots simply because Enlarge/Reduce is gonna be so niche for an EK. I'd rather have blur up and running since it makes me less likely to get stabbed in retaliation. (Editor's Note: all forms of attack are a type of stabbing. Yes, even a fireball.)
@@napoleontheclown That's fair. Dragon's Breath may be the less conditional of the two spells. But I still think Enlarge/Reduce is worth mentioning even if it's not what is ultimately selected.
I didn't realize you can do titles for different parts of a video! Cool!
I think the problem people have with EK is that it doesn't make a fighter more fightery. The truth is that subclasses that buffs the fighter's fighterness aren't really accomplishing. All fighter subclasses are kinda weak compared to and because of their chassis. As a result, the EK is the best fighter because it handles situations when you can't necessarily mutliattack past your problems. Not to mention, more meaningful options in combat is alwats nice.
I would agree with that. A lot of spell options for EK increase versatility rather than offense.
37:57 ...but I love coming back and watching the whole video
Thanks for this. The discussion of spells was very helpful. I was also hoping to see a build, as I find the step by step builds you’ve done very helpful in terms of thinking through every step of making a character.
I’ve had conversations with many of my gaming friends (and have seen similar sentiments online) who think the EK is a weak choice and not a good fighter subclass. I don’t agree, though I haven’t had the chance to play one. I would love to see your ideas for an effective build.
Did you see the video last week? It is primarily EK
The force lance? I did, and I love that build. Thank you. In looking for Gish builds, I actually think your battle mage looks like the build I’d want to play, and it looks more powerful and interesting than the straight EK to me. I guess to me I seem to read a lot of people saying the straight EK is weak, which I disagree with. I went into your latest video excited to use it as evidence to say I told you so.
But, the advice on the spells is the most important part of the EK. The rest of the build isn’t really that hard to make.
Thanks so much for responding, and thanks for your videos. I’ve found them incredibly helpful.
One note actually on the Darkness spell: the effects in practice can vary quite a bit based on party make-up, since the rules for dis/advantage keep you from having multiple instances of either apply. If you have both advantage and disadvantage, then you're considered to have neither, no matter how many instances of each you have. So different classes can benefit or be hindered by liberal use of the darkness spell.
For instance, rogues can't get sneak attack if they have disadvantage on the attack roll, and some low level options (like blur or the dodge action) can be seen as a hard counter to the rogue's sneak attack. Darkness changes that and gives the rogue advantage as well, meaning that as long as there is an ally within 5 feet of the target, they can get their sneak attack. In effect, it completely nullifies the defensive options some might use to defend themselves from sneak attack.
On the other hand, if someone has a character built around crit-fishing with Elven Accuracy, they will hate you. A Barbarian might shrug or get annoyed, because you've nullified both the good and bad parts of Reckless Attack. And the Warlock with Devil's Sight will giggle and thank you for saving him a spell slot. The mileage on this spell can vary in surprising ways based on what everyone else is playing.
Great video!
Looking forward to seeing how your Arcane Trickster video next week will differ from the Illusionist Wizard build. Also, would still love to see a Chronurgy build :P
I would add one more 2nd spell and that would be Misty Step
Also on top of war caster, a Ruby of the War mage slapped onto your weapon to make it your focus (you can’t use arcane Foci as per RAW-General but you can attune to ROTWM and use it as a Focus RAW-Specific) and that can help a lot with dealing with the pesky material components for some spells.
Great spells! Toll the Dead & Fly are worth considering IMO. Wizard spells are so much fun, I want to take a few levels of EK, then go wizard if multi-classing is allowed...
Another cantrip option for both flavor and damage is any of the PBAOE options, like thunderclap or swordburst. There are times when you are fighting high AC foes who you might not be able to reliably hit, but who might be weaker against a saving throw. Alternatively, it provides an AOE attack that you can also make a melee attack with.
Weapon bond is realy usefull when you have to leave It in some place that you cant use It. I surprised my DM when he hoped that we wasted some turns recovering weapons from a safe. 🤣😂
Great video. Surprised you didn’t talk about feats. I love the interaction of sentinel with mirror image and booming blade (obviously you would need war caster).
I haven't had a chance to try it, but I want to try a character with war caster, polearm mastery, and spell sniper. You could use booming blade on someone incoming and they have to take the secondary damage if they want to keep on charging in and reach you. A variant human could do it by level 8 or anybody else by level 10.
I prefer Blur over Mirror Image. Mirror Image is better for low-AC characters that take infrequent attacks (like the wizard) but frontline fighters take way more attacks.
Blur being a concentration spell kills it. It can't be layered with other buffs like invisibility or haste, and every time you're hit there's a chance it's gone.
Several things:
1) It's early-access. Or early access for an Eldritch Knight. You get it at level 8, you don't get 3rd-level spells until level 13.
2) What buff layering? You don't have the bandwidth to be layering spells. At level 12, you have four 1st-level slots and three 2nd-level slots. Your 1st-level slots are going to be reserved for Shield/Absorb Elements.
3) What else were you going to be using your Concentration for? Yes, it is a pain in the neck that you can lose Concentration if you get hit, but concentration isn't in-demand for EKs for most of their game. It only conflicts with Protection from Evil and Good and Shadow Blade.
4) Mirror Image isn't even good on an Eldritch Knight. You can have a fairly high AC if you want, up to 21 with Sword and Shield, so your Mirror Images will often go away without actually saving you from hits. And you only get three Mirror Images anyway. Blur lasts for a whole minute, it can easily protect you against over a dozen attacks.
@@maltheopia There's simply better things to be concentrating on at that level IMO. Dragon's Breath as stated in the video for instance. If the objective is to give enemies disadvantage, concentrating on Darkness would be equally effective (provided you had Devil Sight) and at that point it would generate advantage for you as well. If you weapon bond a javelin, and then cast Darkness on it you can throw it to move the Darkness around if you don't want to cast it on yourself. The point of taking Mirror Image is that it is not concentration so you can always pick it up and use it for extra defense regardless of what you're actually concentrating on. And with a limited number of spells known I'd take Mirror Image over Blur in almost every case. And if you need to give a single target disadvantage, Blindness Deafness is going to be a better option than Blur, AND you can still concentrate on Hex for extra DPR.
@@KatanaKamisama 1) Even if you're using the Find Familiar trick for Dragon's Breath, I wouldn't call that a good thing to be concentrating on at the level you get it. 3d6 increasingly doesn't cut the mustard as the game goes on and with AoEs, auras, and horde monsters it'll often just end up being a waste of a spell slot due to the familiar getting popped. It's another case of availability killing the usefulness of the spell.
2) Yeah, Provided You Have Devil Sight. You got a spare 13 Charisma lying around? Also, that's two levels down the drain on a class whose spellcasting doesn't stack with yours. I sure love getting 2nd-level spells at character level 9. Speaking of which, unless you're taking three levels of Warlock you're not going to be able to use this tactic until literally level 12. Blur's available at level 8. Also, I sure hope your party is on board with your cunning plan. Devil's Sight + Darkness is pretty good if you're a ranged character, it's extremely questionable or even outright terrible if you're melee.
3) Who cares if it's not concentration? You're not getting your money's worth on an Eldritch Knight. You don't have that many spell slots and oftentimes it'll be wasted on your good AC. Even if you're a ranged EK, that's not a good value.
4) Blindness/Deafness is mediocre and gets more mediocre as the game goes on. It targets Constitution, a good CR5+ monster save.
@@maltheopia the build in question specifically takes 2 levels of warlock. I wasn't referring to a pure EK build. Additionally the lvl 10 class feature of EK provides a way to force disadvantage on a save which would make blindness deafness slightly more use-able. Granted Con saves are shitty to target in general. But if it went through it could be decisive in a combat.
I can think of a fun use for WarMagic, If you have cross classed with Warlock. There is an Eldritch Blast Invocation to pull the opponent closer to you. So pull a fleeing target, then bonus action strike them.
Thoughts on Shocking Grasp, I love it for casters. It is an emergency button if you don't have teleport stuff. Zap the opponent and run while they cannot take reactions.
I've been playing on a 1 shot server with magic items these days. You can get a magic weapon in T1. The Magic Weapon spell is still a great spell through T2.
An Eldredge knight with spell sniper feat and taking Eldredge blast is a deadly combo. At level 7 get 2 beams and can use a cantrip then a melee attack as a bonus action 1 time per round. However also get 2 attacks as a fighter at 5th level. Therefore having 4 attacks at level 7 and 6 at level 11. 3 ranged and 3 melee. Not to mention being able to throw a Warhammer 2 handed then call it back with a bonus action. Just crazy fun and awesomeness most people overlook.
I've found blur to be superior to mirror image on a heavily armored Eldridtch knight. Instead of preventing three attacks, it can protect against a whole multitude of attacks, and conserve shield spell slots. At the same time with full plate, a shield, the shield spell, and blur, you can become nearly impossible to hit. With warcaster and a fighters proficiency in con saves good luck getting that off the fighter
i love shatter especially when dealing with constructs / other inorganic creatures the built in dis condition to save can be useful. Also AoE damage can be good for tactically
I'm surprised Hold Person wasn't mentioned as a free 2nd level spell. Attack action, Hold Person (disadvantage on the save if you have Eldritch Strike), action surge, action a paralyzed person for auto crits. Unfortunately only works on humanoids but can still be deadly.
Blindness/Deafness good option for the BBEG in an encounter too, and it's not racist.
I love this subclass, so glad you made a video on it. Will you do the "Great Old One" subclass for warlock? (aka GOOlock)
They are only two spells behind a 20th Sorcerer in spells known...BARF thank God for Tasha's.
I'm considering building a bugbear grappler built mostly around enlarge/reduce. Great to get some
EK 7 for enlarge reduce, and likely find familiar as the other alternate spell for advantage
Rouge 1 for expertise in athletics
Wizard 2 (gravuturgy for strength advantage or war magic for survival)
EK x for health, third attack and much needed ASIs for being very MAD
*Get some tips from your video on other spells
You could use polymorph for escape, use it to give the wizard (or other low hp characters) more HP and they can deal out decent damage, even without spell slots.
I've always felt that after 7th or 11th level it's kind of a no-brainer to multiclass into War or Abjuration Wizard.
I have decided to create an eldritch knight and picking as many Magic initiate feats as possible. I think it will be fun
I think I'd rather take _find familiar_ with one of the two Feats, even on an eldritch knight who can pick it natively. Yes, a whole Feat is a big ask, but once a day is generally more than enough. With the scarcity of the EK's spells known(especially outside of their schools) and spell slots, I want my 1st-level pick to be something I can get a lot of use from, not just an occasional re-up.
Besides, both Magic Initiate for wizard and Ritual Caster for wizard are arguably better for the EK than they are for other classes because they use Intelligence and have very little magical utility.
I feel like Darkness is just a more expensive Fog Cloud, unless you invest into magical darkvision. It's useful, but expensive compared to a level one spell
if you're short on ASI/feats, such as in the early game, using a versatile weapon like a longsword is a strong option. or you can lean into having a free hand with the duelist fighting style.
I really like the thematic idea of Eldritch knight, but it's features leave a lot to be desired. The lack of spell choice (and it's late 3rd lvl spells) is compounded with the fact you are a MAD subclass. Compare it to Rune knight, you get some very nice spell-like abilities while also getting very strong features on top of those.
It isn't at MAD as one might think, taking Spells that don't need Saving Throws or Spell Attacks. Shield, Find Familiar, Misty Step, Haste, Enlarge/Refuce, Absorb Elements, Warding Wind are all great options.
On any class that gets access to Mage Hand I can't suggest the Telekinetic feat strongly enough. If you take the cantrip and the feat you get 60 ft range on initial cast, the hand is invisible, and you can bonus action pull or push the target if they fail a spell save. This has *no size limit* RAW. You also get +1 Int/Wis/Cha for taking it. There's so many uses for invisible mage hand even without the bonus action fuckery, adding that in makes it Must Have for a lot of builds/archetypes.
As the person who wrote the Inquisitor Lim's Guide to Bladesingers:
Talking about 5E D&D builds without mentioning magical items makes evaluating certain builds tricky to the point of being unrepresentative. I know magical items aren't a guarantee, but there are certain magical items that are such OMG huge gamechangers for certain builds that it's worth talking about. Abstractly, the viability of a melee Bladesinger goes way, way up if magical items drop. I played a Bladesinger to level 17 in Adventurer's League pre-Season 8 and they had a Flametongue Shortsword, a (Grey) Robe of the Archmagi that I traded at GameholeCON, and a Belt of Fire Giant Strength.
Magic items aren’t guaranteed and a better build will be better with those same magic items. Not to mention short rest to long rest per combat matters too and so does party comp. those drastically changes how good a build is.
I dont know how useful evaluating magic items as part of a build actually is. Easier to just acknowledge that, yes, items can make EVERY build better or theoretically “viable”.
@@conradkorbol There are some builds that completely change in viability if magical item drops. Most notably Bladesinger, non-Moon Druids, AT, and Eldritch Knight. But even something like taking a single level in Hexblade or Life Cleric becomes an open question if +1 armor and shields are available.
@@M0ebius There are some builds or routes you don't want to go down unless you have access to magical items. For example, I would not recommend a DEX-based Sorceradin in games that didn't have the Ogre Gauntlet/Giant Belt line. If they are available, then DEX-based becomes the dominant build.
maltheopia yeah and how many short rests to long rests you get make certain builds viable. If you are fighting one Monster a short rest or long rest. Or if you are fighting 20. These all change how good a build is. So does your party comp. a theoretically good or bad class could be terrible or amazing in some party comps.
I am saying that these are like
Magic items. It’s just too many variables.
Find familiar is just soo good. Even on this eldritch knight. So good that our DM always kill off familiars the first turn when facing intelligent creatures. We've ended up having to hide them with positions or spells to save them. Still usually worth it.
EK should take the Ritual Caster feat. Fighters are plenty if feats and it expands RP and spell list. Find familiar familiar and leomonds hut for example
I love this! What do you think makes a more optimized character? The STR based, great weapon wielding EK or the DEX based one? I think both are very valid options.
I agree
With great weapon one, you will have an easier time casting spells which has somatic components but doesn’t have material components. (Without taking warcaster feat)
I’m running a high elf EK that is dex based, and he is a very slippery character to lock down or hit, especially with Shield in his pocket. Only two scares I’ve had up to current (5th lvl) were a crit from a hobgoblin that took me from 40hp to 3, and failed grapple check from a bigger griffin (forget the monsters actual name) that ended in a 40’ fall. But those would’ve been problems for ANY character at that tier. Overall, a very reliable build that’s fun to run and has a suite of viable combat options.
Flock of Familiars seems like a great choice for Eldritch Knights.
Other people: "Let's cast haste on me to be tanky and deliver a lot of damage"
Me: "Let's cast haste on my Moon Druid I'm mounting and stack it up with Mounted Combatant (Dex save immunity)"
"Spell progression is *extremely* slow"
Meanwhile a warlock....
Warlock is its own animal. I have very little motivation to play it because of how few slots they get, even if they regain them on a short rest..
@@unvoicedapollo3318 They are incredibly fun to role-play, eldritch blast, at-will spells from invocations, great multiclass potential, there is something just fun about having to be extra strategical with your spell slots that COME BACK ON A SHORT REST, and casting spells is only one facet of the class. Also, Hexblade. How are those for reasons?
@@karlwilker579 I just meant me personally don't want to play the warlock. Nothing against it itself. But managing the very few spell slots they get (even with short rest regen) just isn't quite for me
@@unvoicedapollo3318 Totally your call.
@@unvoicedapollo3318 with the asumption that a day includes 2 short rests, the Warlock basically has 3 slots at level 1, and 6 from level 2-10, 9 from 11-16 and 12 from 17-20. It doesn't keep up with most full casters since at level 4 full caster already have 7 slots, but it does keep up with Paladins and Rangers. It does have a bit less spell slots than those 1/2 casters, but they do get Invocations that can allow other benefits, which can include other casting opportunities that replaces spell slots (example: Detect Magic, False Life, Disguise Self, Silent Image, etc. at will). Finally it trumps 1/3 casters like Arcane Tricksters and Eldritch Knight. They just work differently ..
Awsome video! I love your content ... What about the mind sliver cantrip?
If UA is allowed sure
I always kill familiars. 1 hp to get rid of help action? Absolutely believable to do.
I love blur. It’s a great spell
Instead of War Caster feat, you can also use Ruby of the War Mage, a common magic item introduced in Xanathar's Guide to Everything. It's a trade off between sacrificing an ASI/Feat slot or an attunement slot (War Caster is still a bit better overall, but I've been playing with Ruby and the extra benefits from War Caster haven't come up yet in over a dozen sessions, plus the feat slot is used for something else). Putting the Ruby on one of your bonded weapons still means you're always only one bonus action away from combat prowess.
I always mention Ruby of the War Mage because I think a lot of people dont know about it. Perfectly suited for an EK. But doesn't the ruby only cover material components of the spell? Wouldn't you still need war caster to use somatic components of a spell if you wield a sword and shield or 2 weapons?
@@matthewmiller1847 Ruby of the War Mage turns a weapon into a spellcasting focus, just like any other spellcasting focus.
In chapter 10 of the PHB the book describes somatic components as either intricate gestures OR forceful gesticulation; I'd say brandishing a weapon counts as 'forceful gesticulation'. In addition: very, very few spells describe their somatic components in a specific way; unless a spell specifies what it's somatic action is, such as Fireball or Delayed Blast Fireball, its really up to interpretation.
An excerpt from that chapter, under material components: "A spellcaster must have a hand free to access these
components, but it can be the same hand that he or she uses to perform somatic components." In other words, the same ruling that lets a wizard use a wand or staff, or a bard's two handed instrument, to cast spells also applies to a weapon with Ruby of the War Mage applied to it.
@@matthewmiller1847 I actually found a tweet from Jeremy Crawford, one of the lead rules designer for WotC / D&D, saying they designed Ruby of the War Mage with (sub)classes like Eldritch Knight and Rangers in mind.
twitter.com/jeremyecrawford/status/958068645493538821?lang=en
@@ClassicMagicMan I knew about that tweet but I thought you still couldn't use somatic components with a weapon and shield in both hands? I mean it would be awesome if the ruby covers both but I didnt think that's how it works. If it does you don't necessarily NEED warcaster for a shield wielding EK, but war caster is still great for everything else lol
@@matthewmiller1847 It's a tad convoluted in its wording, but everything is written there in the PHB. The same hand that access the material components (or spellcasting focus) can be the same hand that does the somatic movements. If a Wizard can use a wand to cover both material and somatic requirements, so too can an EK's Rubied-weapon-of-choice.
And agreed, War Caster feat is still better because of advantage on CON saves and casting spells as opportunity attacks, but as a fighter, you still have proficiency in CON saves, and are good at hitting things for AoO. The tradeoff is an attunement slot versus an ASI/Feat, I think that's fair.
What do you think of Lightning Lure for an Eldritch Knight? It's use could be to pull in an opponent beyond reach, and possibly lockdown with a War Caster Booming Blade.
I find lightning lure to be pretty unreliable.
One way to make the EK better would be to be able to choose which two schools you specialize in
Mirror image is soo good. It allowed me to go toe-to-toe with a demon prince (yeenoghu) for several rounds and not die.
got a question about mirror image tho.
Is the "will this target an image" rolled even before the result is declared?
Thats how I read it, and I dont like it. If you are a heavy armor user with 10 dex, a 17 would have missed you, even before the result of 17 came in, you had to roll if the attack would target an image that has an AC of 10.
An attack that would have missed you anyway destroyed a layer of defense.
I really dont like that
@@texteel Yes, that is how it works.
@@kendrajade6688 that sounds super weak and defeats its own purpose.
It should protect me, but it doesnt, because it kills itself before it can protect me at all
@@texteel Hey, I'm not Wizards.
@@texteel It is still a good spell, especially against enemies that are unlikey to miss you, because of their ridiculous hit bonus. (Yeenoghu)
But talk to your DM, maybe you can house-rule it so your duplicates have your AC.
So how would you make eldritch knight/grave domain cleric work? Would it be more of a tank or Dps build?
Never build an Ek, but when i build an AT i usually mix one untill 3 levels of wizard in the build. This gives ritual cast 6 first level spells of any school, 3 additional cantrips and arcane recovery. Further you can use sleep and such as on level 2 it still may be usefull and your caster level will be higher. Fighter 1 then 1 or 2 level wizard and then Ek?
I've toyed around with a Bladesinger/EK build as a more spell-versatile gish type character, but I've not actually gotten to play it yet. Any suggestions or thoughts?
Hi Treantmonk. Would you advise a wizard multiclass (or maybe cleric) for a Fighter EK? I am considering 4 lvls of wizard diviner for my build, or maybe 2 plus two lvls of knowledge cleric.
My character is a streetwise dx based EK with roguish aspirations. The party is only two people so I am lookinh at the EK because of its toughness. My friend is hoing to be playing a moondruid.
Sorry if you have already answered the topic off multiclassing this archetype before, could not find it.
Great content as always, thank you.
EK is a good subclass for multiclassing. I would consider sticking with EK until level 7, 8 or 10 before switching.
with blind fighting fog cloud and Darkness are pretty interesting
You miss one the best spells for level 4 for the EK that is Banishment, you have very nice combo with Eldrich Strike, you make an attack action then Action surge to banish i can tell you is a pretty nice combo that can get you out of a lot of situations
Will we be getting a eldritch knight build fleshed out
William Riley his archer build was an EK but it didn’t follow the spell rules. So maybe a follow up IS in order. Idk.
Great video.
Given how low your opinion of the monk is I was wondering how you would try to fix it or how you think is best to build this class given its lackluster performance.
I'm working on a fix
I have a question. What do you think about picking a race that gives you another cantrip, and getting the Magic Initiate feat, and taking Ritual Caster to expand the number of spells that we have available?
I would say that Ritual Caster scales better than Magic Initiate but both are good options.
Right now the Hexblood, Fairy, Githyanki/Githzerai, Variant Human, Satyr, Yuan-ti and Eladrin are your best options if you want to go with a more magical Eldritch Knight.
Thoughts as I watched:
1) Best thing about booming place is that it's a soft Sentinel feat. :3
2) "The disadvantage of Green Flame Blade over Booming Blade is that GFB is going to depend on our INT to a certain degree." - It's more of a advantage than a disadvantage when it comes to cleaving. Or you could say that Booming Blade is at disadvantage as it's dependent on the targets decision(the GM) to move or not to deal damage before level 5, whereas GFB will always deal dmg to the secondary target(the only time to use it).
At level 5 assuming a Str/Dex(finesse) of 18(+4), 1d8 weapon, and a Int 13(+1) the damage of both look like:
GFB: 1d8+4 +1d8(fire) + (Cleave)2d8+1(fire)
BB: 1d8+4 +1d8(Th) + (If:Move)2d8(Th)
Full Atk: 2d8+8
So if you're fighting against more than one target and you can cleave GFB will do more damage 100%. Though if you're trying to lock-down two targets BB'ing one of them then waiting for the other to trigger Warcaster and also BB them is a viable strategy as there's no limit to the number of cantrips you can can in a turn, iirc.
3) Shocking Grasp, want to get away from the big bad armored giant/metal thingy? Shock it and it can't use a opportunity attack anymore, so you can walk away at full speed.
4) 17:15, Shield spell, Somatic worries => Warcaster, since you get 3 feats by level 6, 4 if v.Human.
5) Thunderwave: Falls off almost as quickly as you get it, since one your Int isn't likely to be very high and two 90% of challenging encounters, at the appropriate level, will have a high bonus to their Con save. Treat it like the monks stunning strike except it's a aoe knockback that tickles a bit instead of a stun.
I am missing Blur. A great choice for the EK.
It seems to be that you dont cover UA content but what are your thoughts on the UA summon X spirit spells? With the new Tasha book coming out I am almost certain they will be a part of the book (seen on DNDnext reddit with source).
Haven't looked, but I certainly will if they are in the new book
Using Action Surge to cast two Fireballs in a round is kind of satisfying though.
Yeah, though your spell save DC is going to be fairly low most of the time, so they're much more likely than normal to pass the dex save for half damage. 2 fireballs with good chance of only doing half damage, or 1 fireball with (from a normal caster) with low(er) odds of passing the save.
Played a High elf Gish Eldritch Knight/War Mage over the last couple years up to 18th level. If you are going to play an EK you should serious consider at least one level of muti-class in to Wizard. It doubles the cantrips you have access to and gives you ritual magic. In addition, it gives you a spell book, which means that since both EK and WIzard use the same list you can use your spell slots for either your EK spells or whatever Wizards spells you have memorized today, which eliminates your spell school restrictions for low level spells. If you take Wizard to 3rd you can get open access to 2nd level spells, which have a /ton/ of utility.
My gish is around 50/50 EK and Wizard, so my Int is 20 at 18th, but if you are going mostly EK all of your attack spells will be fairly weak. You spell attack roll and save DC's are not going to be terribly effective. For some reason none of these EK guide recommend Magic Missile. It may not be sexy on a pure caster, but for an EK, it has decent damage out to 120', up-levels well and does not care if you have a 12 INT.
In any case, I love some EK. Good guide.
Just a comment on the video sub-section divisions here. It seems to be quite numerous, perhaps it would've been better to divide the spell selections by level rather than individually? However, it could be potentially useful when referring back to this video for future reference?
I considered just doing the spell levels (would have been easier for me as well), but yes, I figured if anyone wanted to come back to this video later it would be easier to find what they were looking for