SNS 324: Victor Lathe Main Spindle Bearing Adjustments
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 ต.ค. 2020
- In this weeks video I share the steps I took to adjust the spindle bearings in the Victor lathe. Chatter was getting to the point of total annoyance and I knew an adjustment to the tapered roller bearings were in order.
Also in this video I show some new machinery skates I purchased, and we also give a peak at the new MMM-USA portable grill I was given. mmm-usa.com/
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Hats off to the Victor lathe for having the internal machine cavity painted bright orange so that it is easier to see inside. Everything was clearly visible on video and I can only imagine it made working on it more efficient.
Run in up at speed abd see if the bearing remain cool to warmish . If the bearings are too tight it'll knacker them quicker than you'd believe.
Agreed. It's OK provided the running temperature at the bearing never goes above 60-65 deg C.
I'm very glad I found this channel I'm 1st gen tool maker 30 years old and its dying but videos like this give us younger guys the guidance we cant get !!!!
It would be really cool if you made a clear cover so you could see inside while it’s running.
Nice
Even of its temporary just for one video
Ever been trough a car wash? Same thing.
@@andrewn8788 maybe, but in medium gear it would still be a interesting cutaway view
@@tek4 oil would obscure the view.
Man, I love this channel.
And I am not, nor will I ever be a machinist. But I am fascinated by these machines and the craftsmanship. Of this industry.
This video really helped me, I had the same problem with our labor cnc lathe at work, after watching your video I took the lid of our lathe and tighten the bearing nut, the shader disappeared altogether and i can now part steel like cutting butter 👍🏻 I also discovered thanks to this, that the oil pump had a broken gear and was not working, so now I’m just waiting for a replacement oil pump.
Hi Adam,
I am looking forward to watching the shaper restoration...
Take care
Paul,,
Adam, I smiled at your thorough job cleaning up before pulling that cover off the head-stock.
Something else that contributes to chatter in grooving and parting is backlash in your cross-feed assembly.
If you have some backlash in that cross-feed lead screw, replace the nuts or tighten them up too.
One of my manual lathes is a light duty Clausing 12" machine. It had a 1/2" ACME lead screw in the cross slide with a lot of backlash. I machined a new 5/8" ACME screw and a new nut to tighten it up to solve this same problem.
The rear cylindrical roller bearing should also be adjustable. The inner or outer race fits on a taper and driving it up the taper expands or contracts it to tighten the clearance. Normally that one would have .0005" or so clearance.
Lol
You have just showed me what the issue with my 25y/o lathe has now..the chatter is exactly what has been driving me nuts. Going to see if I can fix mine..Thanks so much for another of your fantastic videos and your willingness to share your special knowledge
I never had an interest in manual machining until I got into watching your channel, and AvE. Very interesting process. The way you speak and explain things is very informative. I appreciate your expertise.
7-10 plug... nice one! Haven't heard it before!
After 20 years of ownership I said goodbye to my last camper or motorhome as we call them in the UK. A very sad day for the grandchildren to say goodbye to 'granddads bus'. At 72 years of age I doubt I'll replace her but, oh the memories that flooded through my mind as she left for a full rebuild by the new owner.
Good to see you back in the shop and now I need to go start up my grill. For sum reason every time I watch your videos I get hungry LOL
Adam, good video. A couple of things in loading a tapered roller bearing. One is, when possible, bring the bearing and the race up to operating temperature before adjusting. Once at operating temp, then load the bearing until you feel rotational resistance, and back it off slightly. set your lock nuts, and you are good to go. Again, a really good video showing the effect of bearing adjustment on the spindle performance.
It's too bad that adjusting nut was so hard to turn, I wonder if the shaft/bearing is galled or damaged in some way to not let it slide easily. It would be so much easier to get the adjustment right if you could feel the nut interacting with the cone. I do worry it's going to be a bit too tight if that gear box builds up any significant heat, though it may not get hot enough to make much difference. I know I would be in hot water pretty quick doing wheel bearings on heavy trucks like that, but they are a different animal all together.
@@--_DJ_-- I am actually not surprised that the adjusting nut was fairly tight. Remember, there are 3 sets of bearing that the spindle passes through. That adjustment had to move the spindle through all 3 inner races at the same time. In these applications, a transitional "snug" fit is used. I highly doubt there was any galling, but it wouldn't surprise me is there was light varnish at the inner race junctures. Usually, service instructions will indicate to run the bearing (machine) until it reaches operating temperature. At that point, you go through the loading procedure. This takes into account the expansion and contraction of the bearing and races. What Adam did will probably be fine, but the light chatter may return slightly if the machine warms up. Otherwise, he certainly improved the chatter situation.
@@farmalltomf I could be way off but wouldn't the adjustable bearings slide along the spindle rather than move it? I don't see how moving the spindle would create less play if the bearings are still in the same relative location to each other. Like I said I could be way off, I don't really have any idea how the inner workings are set up.
@@--_DJ_-- You are correct, but that nut moves the spindle through the bearing inner race. The outer races are stationary, you are moving the rollers and the inner race when you tighten the nut. Ona wheel hub, you move the entire bearing. in this application, you are moving the spindle, and the outer races are stationary.
@@farmalltomf The outer races are stationary in wheel hubs as well, at least any that I can think of. They are pressed into the bore of the hub. I work on both light an heavy trucks, I have knocked more outer races out of hubs than I care to remember, though not as often these days with bolt on hub bearings on the lighter stuff. Is that adjustment (nut B) pulling/adjusting the 3rd bearing, the one at the head/chuck I assume, in with the spindle and nut A is just adding the pre load back to the opposed bearings? Is it just a plain bearing for the rear?
This video comes at the perfect time. Lathe has been eating parting tools for breakfast.
Glad you finally got to that bearing. Every time you would go to part something I would think oh no. Its going to chatter and Adam's going to say he needs to check the spindle bearing.
Never thought that a spindle adjustment makes me hungry. Abom, a great guy by all meanings.
I have the same machine onlt 1985 or so. It has been great. So far no chatter problems.Thanks for the vid!
I’ve been fighting chatter for years. I tried your fix and it worked. Thank you!!!
I LOVE seeing people adjust their machinery! The lathe at my last place of work chattered worse than your Victor...
I just finished adjusting my 16x40 bearings. The internals are the same as your 16x60. The adjustment made a monumental difference in cut quality. I also had all the crap on the top oil rail like you showed. Thanks for the tutorial, it worked well.
Adam, I also had power issues. For many years my neighborhood was the last to get power back. That changed ten years ago. The main lines are on a cross street in front of my back-fence neighbor. The feeder-line runs along their lot-line, then along mine, then down the dead-end street that starts across from me. The CEO of the electric company moved to the end of that dead-end street. It was amazing. I knew something had changed, when I saw six trucks in front of my house ten minutes after we lost power. SIX!! Ten minutes!
Some times it is the simple things that end up making all of the difference. Great video Abom!
I'm glad that made such an improvement, and that it was such a straightforward task. Great video, Adam. Thanks for sharing!
If I may comment, with the taper roller bearings providing axial and radial support, I would have measured the spindle droop by using a lever or prybar under the chuck and measured radial vertical movement with a dial gauge. Then adjust in measured increments, both on the rotation on the clamp nuts and spindle movement.
Love that steak .
Thanks for sharing.
One way of reducing the chatter is by grinding a slight angle on the parting tool so that the tool is not facing the full torque all at once, This way the inevitable tolerances are not being rattled all at once. The angle should be ground so that the highest point of the parting tool is on its left. So it will cut the face of the material remaining clean off.
Tamks Adam for this inspirational video , I fixt my spindelbearings to day and it works like nieuw again. Jaap.
Ozark got me some manuals for a 40s american pacemaker 16x54, and I got it within a week I got both the parts manual and operating manual I never been so happy to get a book thanks abom for the tip
Great watch thanks. I remember an old shop I worked in had a Victor lathe and exactly same problem. Someone had a crash and bent the spindle so the spindle was remade but with a slightly smaller bore, new bearings and it never looked back. Those spindles have such a thin wall.
Really enjoy the amount of TLC you rigorously apply to your tools.
I am no expert on headstocks but every taper roller bearing I've crossed swords with had a noticable preload on it and it looks like yours are no exception. The proof of the setup is in the parting groove.
Awesome headstock improvement. Love that stuff. Makes using the machine more of a joy.
Nice to see I'm not the only one who can't find tools I was just using a few minutes prior. I'm rebuilding a trailer right now including the decking. My wife gave me a pen tool and I was using it for about an hour set it somewhere and haven't seen it since. Good thing she got multiples.
I bought one when you were at MMM shop, Received it last week can't wait to try it.
Adam, just a suggestion, don’t leave the weight set on the dollies, it causes flat spots on the wheels. It will make it much harder to move when you want to.
Nice video on the bearing adjustment. I have to do the same to my little leblonde regal. The first time I saw your chuck holder I had to make one.
Loosen Nut A until there is NO tension on the bearing. Tighten Nut B to remove any axial/lateral play, then tighten to apply some pre-load to the spindle bearing and the center bearing. Rotate the spindle to "seat" the bearings, then adjust again. The principle is the same as doing hub bearings on a car that has tapered roller bearings. Much like an old 70's or 80's Mopar. You're trying to seat and square the bearings and you want them pre-loaded, since they will loosen once they are up to temp. You might also try lowering the cutter below the centerline, slightly so the material is trying to climb up on top of the cutter, thus loading the bearings and maintaining an even pressure against the cutter.
I have been seeing the chuck wrench holders in your video's you inspired me to make one for each of my 3 Lathes! I don't know how I lived with out one!!!!
I used to work at the Clausing Machine Tool Plant in Warsaw, IN (in '76-'78) where most of the Clausing machines were produced. I was an (the) Electrical Design Draftsman, but you hear things being talked about and we had a WWII Marine that was in charge of our Engineering Prototype Shop that knew his stuff!. Clausing Lathes had tapered roller bearings in their headstock and I can remember him talking about adjusting them, based on end play in the spindle. I'm pretty sure they were Timken Bearings and I believe they worked with Timken to determine the allowable end play. I don't think I ever heard what amount of end play they were adjusted to , but maybe you could find out from a Clausing maintenance manual or by contacting the Clausing Service Center. They used to have a Service Center located in (I believe) Goshen, IN, but their website shows they are now in Kalamazoo, MI,, which was the headquarters of Clausing and parent Atlas Press Co. You might also be able to find other manufacturers that had tapered roller bearings in their headstocks and have documentation that describes the adjustment procedure and values for end play. Or, maybe Timken could be a resource for you.
well, you don't want any end play, the big question is how much preload after that.. This video prompted me to look up my lathe manual, I think mine needs it too.. I have the same chatter problems and it's most visible when parting
For my Grizzly/Advance 14x40, it says to tighten 1/16th of a turn past 0 end play
If the manufacturer can't provide any relevant info for the spindle the next best thing is to pull the bearing numbers and get the info for the bearings. Bearing manufacturers list preloads, axial and radial runout allowance, and all other necessary information. Just blindly tightening tapered bearings is dangerous as there may be another issue, sometimes it does just work, but the big test here will be the performance at temp with high RPMs in both loaded and unloaded axial states.
@@sshep7119 but how are you going to know how much preload you're giving it? even if you have the specs from the bearing manufacturer?
@@Rx7man If I were working on a machine that I didn't have manufacturer information about, I would check the Lb force spec from the manufacturer. When the bearing is preloaded properly there should be a certain amount of drag on the bearing, when you do the math for the number of bearings and the mass of the spindle you can determine the "drag" the spindle should see when you begin to turn it. If I were doing the repair I would put a 3/8 drive socket in the chuck and rotate the chuck with my force gauge to see what the drag is on the system. It is similar to the drag you need to see on a pinion shaft when you install a crush bearing in a rear end rebuild.
@@sshep7119 with pinion bearings in pickups, I was taught to put a 10" pipe wrench on the yoke, and it should softly swing down
Unscientific, but it works
Q-tips are made for those little sediment catchers. Lol. I always keep a pack in my tool drawers to scoop out dust and gunk from my tools after a filthy day. Best part of this video is taking off the spindle cover lid and seeing a brand new, spotless, and beautiful spindle box. I'd be terrified of piece of my mallet or soft hammers popping off and falling in. Great video man. can't get enough of this content.
Very good video, I have the same problem with my lathe. Thank you for sharing your knowledge!!!
And the end of the video was perfect!!
My lathe had the same problem and a couple of years ago I did the same thing you just did and I readjusted the bearing preload and no more chatter. Thanks Adam. BY the way, I like your cigar lighter.
I think I'm going to do it to my lathe tomorrow! it's 40something years old, was in a high school and crashed a few times, I'm sure it'll need it
Great info. I have a new to me 1740 that is nearly identical and you just demystified bearing adjustment. Thanks!
Great to see you back in the shop again. Your adjustment looked so easy to do for the results you got, I’m saving this video for my Harrison clone/ acra turn lathe. I will check the manual first but it looked awfully familiar. Also, as you know, be careful pushing the equipment around on the “machinery skates “, as you can slide right off before you know it. Thanks for the video, JB San Diego.
Had to adjust the spindle bearings in my 1941 LeBlond lathe because it was doing the exact same thing.. Cheers from Louisiana.. Mike
That looks just like the inside of a sliding gear type automotive/tractor transmission. Pretty cool.
You take good care of your equipment Adam. Thanks for the sharing this video on how to clean, adjust clearances. If you take care of your tools they’ll last a long time
Your power outages, seem exactly the same as ours here in Thailand !
We have the Vietnam tropical storm passing over us at the moment.
Stay safe, and secure !
Great video. That victor lathe built well. Great work. Thank you for sharing.
I'm gonna make the wrench holder tomorrow, love it!
My power went out when a ice storm hit.My power was out for 5 weeks.Everyone around me had power.Only 2 houses on the transformer.My neighbor was 85 years old. I called the sheriff and told him that our power was still out.The next day,they brought in a bulldozer to pull the truck into the field to replace the pole.We had power in two hours.Supposedly, they rearranged the grid to minimize the problem.Hopefully,we won’t have to find out.
Thanks for showing this! I need todo this to my Victor1640 soon.
Great vid dude. Gotta love those little tricks and tweaks with the older machines
Thanks! I've never been able to part anything on my lathe because of chatter, but I hadn't thought about this. Now after tightening it seems to be much better. The manual of my lathe specifies the tightening in an interesting way - the headstock neads to be "hot to the touch, but not scalding", then the bearings are set correctly.
That's pretty good advice. Classier machines tend to recommend a running temperature for the bearings which provide axial preload in a lathe headstock of 60 - 65 deg C, which is about what your manual describes.
I can't believe you finally got around to it. I love these videos. thx
Oh man, now I'm really hungry! Thanks for sharing, I appreciate all your work.
One thought on your test cuts, as you get closer to the chuck your rigidity will naturally improve, that stock is pretty stout, and your chuck is good, so likely not much effect, certainly not as much as tightening the bearings, but I found myself curious to see a test cut right out at the end.
@@oldsoulkid9263 Hardly, My 1917 Hardinge cataract has plain cast iron cone bearings, one of which was broken when I got the lathe, and I had to make a replacement from scratch so yes, I have definitely adjusted head stock bearings.
I was thinking the same thing, Greg, Being a machinist for more than 50 years it's always good to shorten any cantilevered situation be it a boring bar or the holding of the work. I started with some real clapped out machines and I did my best to tighten them up, so I know what you are talking about! WOW a Hardinge!
I had the same thought. He had enough room to do a last check groove right at the outboard end to get a better comparison with the first test before calling it good. Assuming an infinitely stout workpiece and chuck, the severity of chatter will roughly double when the distance from the groove back to the first bearing doubles. Very roughly.
Thank you Adam I always enjoy watching your videos I am from South Africa
Master in the shop and on the grille!
By spinning an eccentric in your chuck and feeling the vibration as it becomes dampened by and beyond the bearings can be interesting. Getting the eccentric mass and RPM where the players are playing as a team is most of the fun. I may have spent too much time wondering how balancing machines could work once their human was deleted. The Matrix refreshed the problem after years in stasis.
Always interesting stopping by.
I've been waiting for this video for a long time! Now onto watching.
I dont know how old those bearings are but if they are that tight they might be worn an need replacement.
Tightening them up seems like a fix but it can wear them out even faster due to the extra stress on them.
Yeah but replacing them is a different story. Not that easy to do and you gotta be very careful not to miss align anything. Most of them are shrink fitted with a super high tolerance. You gotta know what you do or otherwise the parameters of your spindle are worse than with the old ones. Seen that on some bad done Weiler lathes.
I would have recommended stating with a test indicator measurement before the first adjustmentn to measure lift of the spindle. Then do the same thing after each readjustment. This way you can approximately judge how much adjustment equals how much change of lift. As long as you see a few tenths lift when cold, you can warm it up, measure again when warm. As long as you see a few tenths warm, you should be safe that you did not over tighten the bearing. Just a few steps that help make up for short comings in the manual. If Victor did not publish the steps, they probably relied on a couple of old timers in their factory when they assembled the machines.
This is good advice, except that machine tool bearings run with negative clearance, ie preload. It is still a good way of working out when you are at the crossover point from clearance to preload. But the easiest way is to gradually increase the preload while checking the temperature of the casting in the region of the bearing which takes the thrust, and stop tightening when it gets to a steady running temperature of 60 - 65 deg C
One of my first jobs was working on wheel units for continuous miners. to get at the ring gear there was a circular plate, 16-18” with peened edges setting about 1/8th” in. Only way to get it loose was to smack the hell out of it with a sledge right in the middle and it would pop out and off.
Why not meassure the radial play before and after ?
Thanks Adam
Fun video. I hope you got through the storm ok.
Frank
We have an old American 20x74 made in the early 1900's. Its still very accurate but if I run it over 440 rpm's the part starts to get slightly out of round. I'm thinking this may need done to our lathe. Thanks for the video Adam.
Adam & Abby, Awesome video, great to hear your voice Abby, great content, anxious to see your next video on the stocker engine, thanks for sharing your video.!.!.!.
We use that type grooving tool with YBC251 inserts.. very strong.. Thanks for the Victor tuning we have a 1630.. needs sanding and painting if i ever get to it
Yep, know about spindle bearing preload. My lathe was doing the same thing so I did what you did and adjusted the preload. You'll find that the spindle will spin easier when the lathe head has been run some and reached an operating temp.
Thanks for the great video having this problem at work and have been fighting it. 👍
Really great vid, Its good to get a good result. I always fit a magnet on a stick ( those ones you use to pick up stuff in awkward places) in the headstocks of all my lathes, I wire the handle to something solid so it cant get caught up in the gearing..its surprising how much junk that thing will collect . (I tend to check mine every 5 years or so)
From 'A' to 'B' - love it!
Great video. I would do as Adam did and first try and find the manufacturers procedure or recommendation. The more you watch ole pros like Adam, really paying attention, the better off you will be when you are "hands on" yourself.
That's a good idea with the chuck wrench holder. I've got a couple lathes that I'm planning on getting up and running here. I had a cheap little Central Machinery lathe that I gave to my dad and I have to say it is hard to be without a lathe once you have gotten used to having one around. I've got a Sheldon now and a Rockford Economy and like I said I'm hoping to have them both throwing chips this spring.
Best grill commercial I think Ive ever seen!
My lathe has the same bearing configuration but the 2 roller tapers are together, and only 1 adjustment collar. Zeta- we had 60mph winds which took out one large maple tree limb, which took out the internet fiber and 5 minutes later the power was out for the whole day. Power crews where on the job and checked everything around the house/area, fast!
Red meat! Hot metal! Chips of steel!!! You da man, Abom! I love this channel!
Thanks for the video. I am having the same problem on my south bend from 1949. Looks like I need to make some adjustments! 😄
Great Work..greetings from Paraguay 🇵🇾🇵🇾💯💪
Always enjoy your vids!
Thanks a lot. It's after 9:30 at night, and now I'm heading for the kitchen because of your steak!!
Thank you Adam. This explains alought, perhaps the fix for mine!
Lots going on in this one. That grill is the bomb! 👍
Abom!!!! Lol
Great episode .. all the way to the end. :)
Adam, check your cross saddle clamping pressure to the bed ways. Bouncy saddle can also cause chatter.
I’d be a little leery of leaving those skates under that shaper because it might flat spot the wheels if they are soft enough. It could be a non issue but it’s just something to keep in mind.
Chuckkeyholder, never saw it in your videos you had one , but the sound of it made me make one also out of 1"thickwall pipe for the 1950's simplex lathe I run for hobby. Witch also chatters like crazy.
Im not machinist, but I love these videos, keep them coming ;)
this victor I was standing with at Corning Cabelcon .. turning alot of small parts for them! :D as an apprentice...
Really was waiting for this one.
You should do a headstock rebuild. I know the bearings are very expensive, but your worth it 😂😂
One place I worked had the same sort of Chuck key holders with Micro switches wired into the E stop so both wrenches had to be in the holders or the lathe wouldn't start.
Hi Adam, You should have put a dial indicator against the front of the chuck to see how much the spindle moved back in to the front bearing, Joe, Baltimore MD
Adam, I am on a strict veggie diet (doctors orders) and just watching you eat that steak made me feel so good (and hungry). Thank you !!!!!
Why would a doctor order a non-meat diet? Is there actually a condition that requires that?
If you have gout you have to limit your purine intake. Meat is very rich in them so it's best avoided. Similarly, lots of protein is bad for people with kidney problems: your body recycles excess protein as fuel, and doing that makes a waste product (urea) that your kidneys have to filter out of your blood.
Enjoyed the video on the bearing adjustment, I can't remember where but I recently heard someone claim that once the proper preload is set, there is a running temperature target to verify proper setting. Probably the same thing as testing for chatter in the cutting. The steak looked gorgeous, bon appetite and cheers!
Indeed. 60 to 65 deg C is about optimum, steady state running at top speed with no load.
For some reason I just knew when I saw you eat that tomahawk in the restaurant you was gonna have to try it looks good a great way to end a video, hopefully you weathered the storm prayers and thoughts with you.
Make sure the machine is level and the Gibbs are adjusted correctly , chatter can be caused by anything loose and the bed out of level will cause both taper and chatter.
Q-tips are great for cleaning those kinda holes and crannies.