Mach-E Front Motor: Sandy is Blown Away by Great Design

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 ส.ค. 2021
  • Sandy and the Munro Live Team disassemble and analyze the Ford Mach-E Front Electric Motor!
    The motor featured in this video is NOT a BorgWarner motor.
    www.borgwarner.com/newsroom/p...
    Model S Bumper Sticker: munrolive.com/support-%2F-sto...
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    Outro:
    Music from TH-cam Audio Library [Aka YAL]
    Music provided by RFM: • Video
    #ford #electricmotor #mache
  • บันเทิง

ความคิดเห็น • 1.1K

  • @MunroLive
    @MunroLive  17 วันที่ผ่านมา

    The motor featured in this video is NOT a BorgWarner motor.

  • @TheSimong85
    @TheSimong85 2 ปีที่แล้ว +604

    Thanks Sandy for this motor teardown.
    I can comment on the winding technology wound vs hairpin. I work with engineers to help them simulate and design these different types of windings and they both come with pros and cons.
    Wound windings are well known and more flexible in their design, you can make them fill a slot of any shape with a rather good fill factor. The insulation between each separate wire makes that fill factor impossible to reach 80% for instance. Designers usually can go up to 50-60% of copper in the slot. In terms of layout it is also easier to do any sort of connection as you can bend and reposition wires "easily". The cooling of these wires is not very easy as it comes as a large bundle of wire with resin/impregnation around them.
    Hairpin windings are a recent trend as they provide some benefits. The fill factor can be a bit higher but the slot has to be rectangular. Also as you mentioned Sandy, with higher speeds, you have higher frequency currents and then you can start to have eddy currents and proximity effects going on. It means the current goes mostly on the outside of the section, so you increase your AC losses. Also the conductor closer to the rotor and the airgap sees more varying magnetic flux density which also generate more losses as well as unbalances between wires. The connection of several paths of hairpins also creates unbalances in genral and you can have circulating currents. So in general, it looks easier on paper, or to manufacture and assemble but it means more challenges and less flexibility in the design.
    I think Tesla kept the wound windings for the simplicity it brings even if it may mean a slightly lower fill factor. They chose initially induction motors over PM motors for the same reason.
    Regarding the V shape or W shape of the magnets, it is obviously a very sensitive design depending on the performance to achieve, the magnets help for the low speed torque and the V shape acts to create reluctance torque at higher speeds. A tiny change in angle or dimension can change the torque or performance by 10% and the cost of magnet material as well.
    I work with Altair and we can test and simulate those several multiphysics effects. More than happy to answer any questions.

    • @radben951
      @radben951 2 ปีที่แล้ว +10

      I don't work in the field, but I thought the difference in layout of the magnets might be due to the different diameters. Magnets that are placed closer to center would need to have a different angle to align to the magnetic field lines than magnets that are placed further out from the center.

    • @johnmqueripel2367
      @johnmqueripel2367 2 ปีที่แล้ว +23

      Thank you, that was an excellent overview.

    • @davidhumeston5292
      @davidhumeston5292 2 ปีที่แล้ว +32

      Thanks for taking the time to write that.
      High power high efficiency electric motors are definitely more complicated than what meets the eye.
      Thank you for the insight ..Take care enjoy 😁

    • @nihongobenkyoshimasu3190
      @nihongobenkyoshimasu3190 2 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      @Sandy Munro, @TheSimong85 Great explanation about the stator wiring options.
      Can you also comment regarding the stator water circulation that Ford and VW use without a need of a pump,
      versus the Tesla oil usage requiring an oil filter and a pump? I might be wrong, but does Tesla uses also
      the oil pressure for dissipating the heat from the rotor bearings?

    • @markwilliams5654
      @markwilliams5654 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      The hair pin design is patented

  • @jamdoodles
    @jamdoodles 2 ปีที่แล้ว +286

    I love this channel because it doesn't suffer from brand loyalty: everything these folks tear down is assessed on the merits of the design.

    • @kitecattestecke2303
      @kitecattestecke2303 2 ปีที่แล้ว +8

      Lets be transparent.. He worked for Ford before soo :-/?

    • @bornacvitanic
      @bornacvitanic 2 ปีที่แล้ว +38

      @@kitecattestecke2303 and he bashes Ford when necessary for doing things in a bad way or avoiding to do something riskier like single body castings.

    • @MunroLive
      @MunroLive  2 ปีที่แล้ว +76

      30 years ago... and he quit.

    • @nihongobenkyoshimasu3190
      @nihongobenkyoshimasu3190 2 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      @@MunroLive But keep his mustache !!!

    • @anydaynow01
      @anydaynow01 2 ปีที่แล้ว +21

      Yeah he hit Elon (and Jagdeep in the QuantumScape interview) with some tough questions despite his respect for their respective advanced tech. Also even though he worked with some USA OEMs he doesn't shy from talking about their weaknesses. He and his staff have a very objective opinion about EV tech which is refreshing.

  • @lpdirv
    @lpdirv 2 ปีที่แล้ว +40

    The mark of a smart person is to realize you were mistaken and to adjust your perspective. Well done Sandy, top notch.

  • @mdubz101
    @mdubz101 2 ปีที่แล้ว +40

    Title should read: Sandy is blown away with Fords choice of sub contractor for its electric ⚡️ motors !

    • @robdc4829
      @robdc4829 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Sure. So....the US didn't land people on the moon then?

    • @jetah50
      @jetah50 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      .... maybe.

    • @WlerickBigotOfficial
      @WlerickBigotOfficial 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Thanks to SpaceX, it should be possible around 2030 if they are fortunate. Without them, it would probably have take 10 or 20 more years. So the answer is No, seriously after more than 50 years it should be more than abvious.

    • @MyUniversalUniversity
      @MyUniversalUniversity 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@robdc4829 No Nasa did, I had nothing to do with it. He is right in some ways but you are right as well. Ford choice a good company to do their motors, who already had this motor. So Apple, designs all their stuff, and their Chinese contractor, builds the items. Did Ford design this motor? If not, they at least chose a good supplier to do it for them. Good, but second place, compared to Tesla. Sorry, ask Sandy who is the bench mark for EV's.

  • @FlorestanTrement
    @FlorestanTrement 2 ปีที่แล้ว +103

    It's so rare, people publicly changing their mind when they are proved wrong about their previous public stance. Congratulation on your wisdom, if not on your first stance 😃.

    • @fuchong1216
      @fuchong1216 2 ปีที่แล้ว +12

      I really wish our politicians can do the same. It can save us trillions and lives of many.

    • @DanielDuese
      @DanielDuese 2 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      That’s damn true! „You can always change your point of view because no one can forbid you to get smarter.“ Konrad Adenauer

    • @dukequack6209
      @dukequack6209 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I mean this doesnt discount his previous criticisms...

    • @DanielDuese
      @DanielDuese 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@dukequack6209 why do you think so? His previous decision doesn’t count anymore and he learned to judge better in the future. This is a good thing. Forgiveness is another 😉

    • @CoreanKat
      @CoreanKat 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@DanielDuese he means Recognition for the things that are good does not discount the things that were bad things monkey does bad it’s still as bad it just means it does somethings good

  • @FamilyFirstJ
    @FamilyFirstJ 2 ปีที่แล้ว +15

    What I learned from this video:
    Magna knows what they're doing

  • @Steph1
    @Steph1 2 ปีที่แล้ว +145

    Great content Sandy, also it takes a strong person to admit their mistakes (especially publicly)

    • @michaelenglund
      @michaelenglund 2 ปีที่แล้ว +21

      No. It takes a normal person. Just so many are cowards and weak.

    • @jasondorfman7979
      @jasondorfman7979 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      Great character.

    • @jasondorfman7979
      @jasondorfman7979 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@michaelenglund Huh? You replying to the right person?

    • @michaelenglund
      @michaelenglund 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@jasondorfman7979 no. Sorry

    • @ferfromla
      @ferfromla 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@michaelenglund It also makes for good science.

  • @lightman489
    @lightman489 2 ปีที่แล้ว +60

    I can't believe I'm getting this type of education for free thank you

  • @heathwirt8919
    @heathwirt8919 2 ปีที่แล้ว +9

    It was fun watching Sandy and his coworker struggle to assemble the inverter. At the factory these more complex electrical sub assemblies use sequential assembly processes, fixtures, special tools and well trained assemblers. They make it look easy.

  • @justlisten82
    @justlisten82 2 ปีที่แล้ว +33

    It seems that someone at Ford finally watched some of Sandy's videos. Even if they didn't build many components themselves at least they are choosing better suppliers and making an effort now.

    • @markplott4820
      @markplott4820 2 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      the Problem with FUD motors and other LEGACY OEM is they are NOT building An Advanced SMART cars , they are ONLY building DUMB Electric car like an OLD FASHIONED gas car with Horse 🐎 & Buggy 🚜 Technology.
      in many ways TESLA is 5 years ahead of Legacy Auto, and they are pulling away.

    • @krohner5190
      @krohner5190 2 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      The car was build before Sandy took it in to pieces 🤣

    • @markplott4820
      @markplott4820 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      FUD motors and LEGACY don't listen to Sandy or BUY his Reports, but the Chinese, Japanese, Korean, and Europe does.

    • @justlisten82
      @justlisten82 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@markplott4820 yes of course, it is just good to see Ford is not shitting the bed on every occasion, only most.

    • @justlisten82
      @justlisten82 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@krohner5190 ummmm yeah thanks Sherlock... I was talking about Sandy's videos and comments over the past years and how critical he was of Ford.

  • @PropertyAtAuction
    @PropertyAtAuction 2 ปีที่แล้ว +18

    Great, another dose of Sandy!

  • @henning3062
    @henning3062 2 ปีที่แล้ว +18

    Thanks for the great tear down analysis, but frankly: This gearbox is not from Magna, but it came from GKN Automotive.

    • @andy-for-real
      @andy-for-real 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      BorgWarner investor day presentation claimed it supplies the integrated Drive module which includes gearbox, motor and inverter? Does that mean GKN provides that to BorgWarner?

  • @mayen67
    @mayen67 2 ปีที่แล้ว +26

    I enjoy lessons with professor Munro 😀

    • @MunroLive
      @MunroLive  2 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      Thanks! 😃

  • @slartybartfarst9737
    @slartybartfarst9737 2 ปีที่แล้ว +17

    Sandy no worries the longer the talk the better, video work is getting better and better as shows go on, this is gold dust.

  • @chuckh.2227
    @chuckh.2227 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Just found your channel yesterday and I can't stop watching it
    Very cool!!
    Thank you
    The longer the video the better

  • @Boomtendo4tw
    @Boomtendo4tw 2 ปีที่แล้ว +27

    "It goes thru a tortured path".... Sounds like my life.

  • @PilotEJ401
    @PilotEJ401 2 ปีที่แล้ว +50

    Very smooth job editing this vid, made for a seamless presentation! Noticable improvement, good job

    • @MunroLive
      @MunroLive  2 ปีที่แล้ว +14

      Much appreciated!

    • @joeyscleaninglady2877
      @joeyscleaninglady2877 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@MunroLive In previous videos you said the front motor was induction it looks like this is your typical borg warner PM setup

    • @rogerstarkey5390
      @rogerstarkey5390 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@joeyscleaninglady2877
      Except it's from Magna.

    • @hardyvonwinterstein5445
      @hardyvonwinterstein5445 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      I second that.

  • @kstaxman2
    @kstaxman2 2 ปีที่แล้ว +16

    Great to see better design showing up. Thanks for your detailed breakdown and as always great to hear the thoughts of a master engineer.

    • @MunroLive
      @MunroLive  2 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      Glad you enjoyed it!

  • @MBergyman
    @MBergyman 2 ปีที่แล้ว +30

    I really appreciate Sandy's appreciation for why a designer might have done something a certain way, and how he acknowledges that good design is really hard. So many people in their reviews bashing on designs without actually knowing what is required to make a design good, they just know what they don't like. Thanks Sandy - I imagine your employees appreciate being employed by you.

    • @kevinburke6743
      @kevinburke6743 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      A good design works even better than it looks.

  • @mini2nut67
    @mini2nut67 2 ปีที่แล้ว +25

    Loved the front motor tear down video. The 2nd generation Mach-E is going to be a real winner with all type of design and engineering improvements.

    • @jetah50
      @jetah50 2 ปีที่แล้ว +9

      depends if the subcontractors are innovating.

    • @abraxastulammo9940
      @abraxastulammo9940 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      There is a second generation?

  • @teslasnek
    @teslasnek 2 ปีที่แล้ว +17

    I can't wait to see what he says about the plaid motor 😃

  • @tonyc223
    @tonyc223 2 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    Retired GM tech... Looks good. As always, need to put some hard miles on it,at least 100,000 then tear it down. Very impressive, love the channel...

  • @BigEightiesNewWave
    @BigEightiesNewWave 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Very impressive from Ford! Shows what many decades of engineering expertise can do. They hired some darned smart peoples.

  • @fred993a
    @fred993a 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Sandy - your analysis is brilliant. Thank you!

  • @anydaynow01
    @anydaynow01 2 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    Great examination of the components, I'm gaining more and more respect for Magna as I learn about how well built their EV components are!

  • @Stefan_Dahn
    @Stefan_Dahn 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    14:50 Sandy, let them horses free! 😉
    James Watt appreciates that! 😁

  • @maciejajewski
    @maciejajewski 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Sandy it's great to see that you are a humble man and can change your opinion when new information is provided. Much respect

  • @davidhumeston5292
    @davidhumeston5292 2 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    I spent 10 years being a machinist 15 years as a journeyman PatternMaker ..
    So most of my life in manufacturing.
    I have a degree in electronics and applied science.
    So this kind of content is awesome entertainment. Thank you so much.

  • @JoseVargas-dx7wz
    @JoseVargas-dx7wz 2 ปีที่แล้ว +9

    Great job, Sandy! I really like this types of videos where he explains why it's a good or bad design and show it by being able to asembly it back himself without needing an extra pair of hands! I'm sure that all guys there are very knowledgeable, but no one explains it like Sandy's. Also he has grown comfortable in front camera. Not an easy task for an engineer.

    • @xxwookey
      @xxwookey 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      True, although the explanations are not always that great. At one point here he said 'this is a good design because, er, I like it'. Which is not exactly a compelling engineering reason :-)

  • @drdremd
    @drdremd 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Nice. I’m going to have to watch this another time to get everything I can out of this.

  • @ghostindamachine
    @ghostindamachine 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Superb videography and documentation of the tear down :)

  • @anthonygasparini1734
    @anthonygasparini1734 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Just love your videos and your view points on engineering...pros and cons!

  • @r.keiper7061
    @r.keiper7061 2 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    You guys are excellent, really enjoy your videos. Wondering about tapered roller bearings on differential gear. Seems like it would be more clearance critical affecting bearing load when squeezed between cases that have composition gaskets. Seems ball bearings would be less critical only concern would be to shaft shift occuring when moving from forward to reverse?

  • @nicolashabash5804
    @nicolashabash5804 2 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    Mr Monroe. The skin effect, I believe, applies to high Frequency power; usually in the upper MHz or GHz rates. DC and low Frequencies use the cross area of the conductor.

    • @jackpalczynski7884
      @jackpalczynski7884 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      This idea is correct. The depth of the skin is inversely proportional to frequency. Motors tend to run at very low frequencies (20 kHz area) where you're right. You'd use the entire cross section of the wires. A couple hundred kHz and you'd go ahead and do the calculations for completeness.

    • @jeffm2787
      @jeffm2787 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@jackpalczynski7884 The audio fools will argue this point. I've seen some evidence that even at or just above 20Khz the skin effect can be measured. I know once you reach say 50Khz or so it certainly has some effect. My background is in electronics, however I'm certainly no expert on the subject of the Skin Effect.

  • @hans-peterhemmer6659
    @hans-peterhemmer6659 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Gearbox are GETRAG (German) bought by MAGNA

  • @SripalTAD
    @SripalTAD 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Good editing, kudos for showing the motor disassembly initially in the video👍

  • @arizonawut
    @arizonawut 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Can you imagine being the engineer who designed those systems and having to watch someone tear apart and critique your baby? Glad these designers did an amazing job. Time to buy more Ford stock. 🚀🚀

  • @pablopicaro7649
    @pablopicaro7649 2 ปีที่แล้ว +11

    Another Awesome teardown and analysis - marvelous review

    • @MunroLive
      @MunroLive  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Thanks Pablo!

  • @Heckofadeal
    @Heckofadeal 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Great to see something going the right way !!!

  • @bdgrandin
    @bdgrandin 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I have a bunch of experience in Mfg in automotive watching Sandy makes me appreciate what I don’t know and want to catch up somehow. I'm and older guy at 52 but when new tech comes my way I want to get on board.. the younger people may be ahead of me but I am excited to learn and watch. Same with Sandy I think.

  • @KnowArt
    @KnowArt 2 ปีที่แล้ว +29

    would've been really nice to hear more about why these gears were so great with showing a few different kinds maybe

    • @brianb-p6586
      @brianb-p6586 2 ปีที่แล้ว +15

      It's not that the gears are great, just that forming two gears and a shaft from a single chunk of steel, instead of assembling two gears onto a separate shaft, produces a simple and reliable part.

    • @raroque12
      @raroque12 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Makes me think he is a real Ford puppet!

    • @1943vermork
      @1943vermork 2 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      Combining 2 gears and a shaft on a single forged part is a neat design.
      That remove 2 male and 2 female splines.

    • @brianb-p6586
      @brianb-p6586 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@1943vermork Yes, although typical modern construction would probably be to cut the smaller gear on the forged shaft, with only the the larger gear splined on; it looks like the Chevrolet Bolt is an example of that.

    • @2drealms196
      @2drealms196 2 ปีที่แล้ว +8

      @@raroque12 Are you one of those Tesla fanatics. He can praise Tesla up and down but the moment he says something positive about Ford you think he's a Ford puppet? And BTW Ford didn't make the motor in the Mach-E, Magna did, he's praising Magna's engineering work.

  • @jonas_4901
    @jonas_4901 2 ปีที่แล้ว +19

    Hi Sandy, I don't know where you got your informations with those 70% good/rework parts. The company I am working at sells the production-lines for the hairpin stators with a rate of somewhere +90%. So I think its defenitely the more reliable way to do those stators.

    • @dirkkruisheer
      @dirkkruisheer 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      I think this is critical information. I hope it reaches Sandy.

    • @abraxastulammo9940
      @abraxastulammo9940 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      It is weird how hearsay turned his opinion 180 degrees just like that.

    • @heathwirt8919
      @heathwirt8919 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      The 70% acceptance rate may reflect an early process yield, that should improve as the process gets refined.

    • @jenniferpedrini4787
      @jenniferpedrini4787 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Do you use lasers to weld the hairpins?

    • @jonas_4901
      @jonas_4901 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@jenniferpedrini4787 Yes, we use Trumpf lasers

  • @23cla69
    @23cla69 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    This channel should have millions of followers.

  • @markoverton5858
    @markoverton5858 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    The level of insight is awesome 👍👏👏👏👏

  • @GiovanniEsposito5
    @GiovanniEsposito5 2 ปีที่แล้ว +21

    Great teardown! Thanks as always. So, Ford on the Mach-e has 2 different supplier for the front and rear powertrain: Borg warner for the rear unit and Magna for the front.Toughts about this?

    • @dirkkruisheer
      @dirkkruisheer 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I was thinking the same

    • @abraxastulammo9940
      @abraxastulammo9940 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      The question is why does the car with the big battery consume less?

    • @GiovanniEsposito5
      @GiovanniEsposito5 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@abraxastulammo9940 where did you read this?

    • @abraxastulammo9940
      @abraxastulammo9940 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@GiovanniEsposito5 Ford Germany brochure from June 2021 available as pdf. TH-cam is censoring links again...

    • @Chamieiniibet
      @Chamieiniibet 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@abraxastulammo9940 what "car with the big battery" do you mean?

  • @1dedrer
    @1dedrer 2 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    Hey boss did you see that review Sandy did of my design. Hmm Yeah, I think I’m going to need a raise 🤔

  • @stephenmoten4017
    @stephenmoten4017 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thank you for your assessment.

  • @Atr6015
    @Atr6015 ปีที่แล้ว

    “Really worth talking about” … great detail Sandy

  • @ronnievalentin8753
    @ronnievalentin8753 2 ปีที่แล้ว +10

    Well done video and explanations! Only one thing to add: the gearbox is designed by GKN not Magna 😊

    • @andy-for-real
      @andy-for-real 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      BorgWarner investor day presentation claimed it supplies the integrated Drive module which includes gearbox, motor and inverter? Does that mean GKN provides that to BorgWarner?

  • @davidelliott5843
    @davidelliott5843 2 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    Silicone RTV “instant gasket” is (very) old tech. The anaerobic gasket replacements such as Loctite 518 are far better and they cure only when air is excluded. Any excess will not create lumps that can clog oil galleries and it separates like a normal gasket.

  • @alfredogonzalez1280
    @alfredogonzalez1280 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Into the woods with Sandy !!!! Wow !!!

  • @CausticLemons7
    @CausticLemons7 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Sometimes it feels like I'm not supposed to know this stuff. Like you're sneaking us in behind the scenes at some engineering shop... Thanks!

  • @simontate1382
    @simontate1382 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Sandy, Just so you understand, groups of smaller caps can discharge quicker than 1 big cap.
    That's a more elegant design electrically.

  • @lightdark00
    @lightdark00 2 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    I would love to see the thermal pathway in action on that inverter cooled setup. Those pockets look like they could be isolated to not cool off as much as they should.

  • @RVDL
    @RVDL 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    This was so satisfying to watch

  • @icare7151
    @icare7151 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Proper Design,
    Poetry In Motion.
    Munro & Associates

  • @celeron55
    @celeron55 2 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    Whether to use the hairpin design or wound stator depends on the rotor speed. If you want to make a high rpm motor, you have to use a wound stator in order to retain efficiency. If you make a slow motor you can use the hairpin stator.

    • @brianb-p6586
      @brianb-p6586 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Then it's a good thing that EV motors are all slow.

  • @Succumbed2Rum
    @Succumbed2Rum 2 ปีที่แล้ว +35

    Is this indicative of Ford's innovative engineering or Magna's?

    • @CL-gq3no
      @CL-gq3no 2 ปีที่แล้ว +47

      Magna's engineering department gets the credit for good engineering. Ford's parts procurement department gets a participation trophy for purchasing a good product.

    • @1djbecker
      @1djbecker 2 ปีที่แล้ว +12

      Magna Powertrain, which is also making similar parts for three other Ford products, Cadillac, and various German makes (VW, Porsche, BMW, etc). I'm guessing there will quite a bit of internal commonality.

    • @kevinburke6743
      @kevinburke6743 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      My guess is Magna. They bought a lot of former Ford(Getrag) Gearbox plants. They still supply ford but they also supply other manufacturuers.

    • @johnroyal4913
      @johnroyal4913 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Working on fords I can tell you it’s definitely magna

    • @kevinburke6743
      @kevinburke6743 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@johnroyal4913 I don't understand how the "Diff" can be shorter than the final drive gear face width? I've worked with Diffs all my working life & have Never come across one that slim. I go to the Racing trade fairs where Diffs of all manners are presented. But this Diff seems to be shorter than the length of spline on the two driveshafts that engage it????? Yet Sandy just Glossed over it ????

  • @johnmiranda2307
    @johnmiranda2307 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Outstanding. Thnx.

  • @DavidSpiers
    @DavidSpiers 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    glad to see Mr Munro's back, you need a logo :)
    And another great video.
    Never too long

  • @ZipZoomZip
    @ZipZoomZip 2 ปีที่แล้ว +19

    Did you appraise the relative amount of friction losses under load between the two different gear reduction units?

    • @Narinjas
      @Narinjas 2 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      +1 , please measure this.

  • @brianb-p6586
    @brianb-p6586 2 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    In an earlier Mach-E video Sandy referred to the front motor as an induction motor, presumably assuming that it would be. As confirmed in this video, it is not an (asynchronous) induction design - it is a typical interior permanent magnet synchronous motor.

    • @harsimranbansal5355
      @harsimranbansal5355 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Technically all motors are induction so he wasn’t wrong.

    • @brianb-p6586
      @brianb-p6586 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      @@harsimranbansal5355 No, "induction motor" has a specific meaning in electric motors, and clearly that's what Sandy meant (and was wrong about). Yes, windings are inductors, but saying "Technically all motors are induction" is as nonsensical as saying "Technically all motors are resistance", because all wires have resistance.
      In the term "induction motor", the "induction" refers to current induced in rotor conductors (windings or cage) by changing stator magnetic fields, producing a rotor magnetic field for reaction. That is not how this motor works; there are no conductors in the rotor and the motor does not work by inducing rotor current.

    • @abraxastulammo9940
      @abraxastulammo9940 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@brianb-p6586 Maybe it was at a time he still confused the Mach-E with the VW platform which left me puzzled.

    • @brianb-p6586
      @brianb-p6586 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@abraxastulammo9940 Perhaps. One of the VAG platforms uses induction motors at both axles, but he knew that the Mach-E was IPM at the rear. I think he was assuming that everyone would do what Tesla did in the Model 3/Y (which is IPM rear and induction front), but even Tesla doesn't do that in the Model S/X.

    • @harsimranbansal5355
      @harsimranbansal5355 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@brianb-p6586 ahhhh, alright thanks for correcting me.

  • @mukamuka0
    @mukamuka0 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Great to see a different engineering on this one

    • @rogerstarkey5390
      @rogerstarkey5390 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Ford decided on a spec, decided on the space available, went to suppliers and asked them to tender.
      Magna won..... The ford designers were happy. No in house design.

  • @hlim431
    @hlim431 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Wow when you've impressed Sandy Munro, it's time to go out for a drink!!! Great work Sandy & team!!!

  • @shawndgama1
    @shawndgama1 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Hey Sandy, great presentation. Could tell me the manufacturer of those vertical floating connectors?

  • @teslasnek
    @teslasnek 2 ปีที่แล้ว +31

    What I want to know is did Ford have anything to do with the design of this motor or was it all Magna, and Ford just basically bought this off the shelf. I have a 2017 Ford focus electric, and I believe the powertrain in it was completely designed by Magna.

    • @CreateYourWorth
      @CreateYourWorth 2 ปีที่แล้ว +11

      Most likely outsourced engineering

    • @fredbloggs5902
      @fredbloggs5902 2 ปีที่แล้ว +16

      They were in a hurry.
      They didn’t have any in-house expertise.
      They wanted something that worked.
      They didn’t care about the price.
      What do you think?

    • @teslasnek
      @teslasnek 2 ปีที่แล้ว +11

      My other car is a Tesla Model 3, and I will be replacing the Ford with another Tesla Model 3 soon lol

    • @TiagoJoaoSilva
      @TiagoJoaoSilva 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Ford's current electric drive components are heavily based on VAG designs.

    • @quantummotion
      @quantummotion 2 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      Magna is a Tier 1 supplier - that means it supplies parts directly to the assembly line in a just-in-time fashion. Ford, GM, and Chrysler got rid of alot of their in-house people and went to suppliers. That's why Magna became such a huge company - it took on the work that the "big 3" in NA were outsourcing. Magna also builds entire vehicles. They are building the Fisker vehicle. They recently entered into a Joint Venture with LG to produce electric drivetrains, inverters, and other systems. The traditional automakers going forward will very much depend on suppliers like Magna for electric systems. That's not a bad thing, Magna employs 169,000 people worldwide and they in turn have their suppliers for stuff, also worldwide. Besides, with Magna building so many different parts for so many different vehicles, they are in a position to draw on their experience on what works best, where. We shouldn't be surprised at seeing some innovative designs from a supplier like Magna.

  • @MaximGhost
    @MaximGhost 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Darn. I sold my Ford stock after Sandy's previous vids trashing the Mach-E. I'll have to buy those shares back now.

    • @mellowphantpi9168
      @mellowphantpi9168 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Why? At least four other companies are using the innovative parts in this video, there's no advantage for Ford.

    • @MaximGhost
      @MaximGhost 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@mellowphantpi9168 Because I can't just buy only Tesla stock. I need a smidge of other companies' stock to pretend that my portfolio is diversified.

  • @Kyzyl_Tuva
    @Kyzyl_Tuva ปีที่แล้ว

    Such awesome videos. Thank you Sandy. I may purchase a report on this one

  • @djwarren5081
    @djwarren5081 2 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    You think you know plenty about engineering until you've watched Sandy. It's like going to night school.

  • @MegaFPVFlyer
    @MegaFPVFlyer 2 ปีที่แล้ว +9

    they put all the good design into that drive unit and didn't have any left over for the HVAC & coolant systems

    • @alanmay7929
      @alanmay7929 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Big lollllll. Everything is evolving, it won't be the same design forever.

    • @CL-gq3no
      @CL-gq3no 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      The good design of the motors has nothing to do with the Ford engineers and everything to do with the BorgWarner engineers. So out of the two things you mentioned, the Ford engineers only had to design a decent HVAC/coolant system and they couldn't do it. Ford is lucky that it can just purchase off the shelf designs for the most important systems from third party parts suppliers. If they can't even manage to keep some cooling hoses reasonably streamlined they have zero chance of designing a modern high performance electric drivetrain.

    • @CL-gq3no
      @CL-gq3no 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      I meant to say credit goes to the Magna engineers for the front motor. BorgWarner produces the rear motor which Sandy was not as enthusiastic about. Ford gets credit for the cooling system/HVAC mess.

  • @N7_Maric
    @N7_Maric 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Some nice praise for Ford from Sandy and Co. Ford should be very happy about this overview. Interesting stuff Sandy!

  • @martylawson1638
    @martylawson1638 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Nice IGBT modules. The integrated water cooling fins and contacts are well thought out. The DC input buss bar is also extremely well done. Keeping the positive and negative plate close and parallel minimizes input inductance and RF noise. You can see this pay off because the don't need a DC input filter inductor and capacitor to keep RF noise inside the inverter. Would not be surprised if the power input pins to the IGBT modules alternated + - + - + to minimize inductance as well.
    Like the intermediate gear in the gearbox too. Adding the long shaft between the large input gear and small output gear provides enough space to fit a standard gear Hob tool.
    Is the differential a spur-gear planetary design? They have a few more parts than a bevel gear design, but can be extra compact.

  • @tommays56
    @tommays56 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    I am always amazed at how much more power the liquid cooled car inverters can due compared to air cooled industrial units

    • @jrb_sland5066
      @jrb_sland5066 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Water has enormous heat capacity compared to air, so you need far less of it to get the same cooling. The tradeoff is that while {filtered} air is a good insulator, water with stuff dissolved in it cannot safely make contact with any of the live wires. Lots of design conflicts arise here - tricky business...

    • @ikocheratcr
      @ikocheratcr 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      The industrial motors you might be thinking about are rated for 24x7 operation at 100%, sometimes even more. Also they require no "external parts", ie water cooling system to work.
      Electric motors in EVs can deliver a huge peak power, but they are not rated to work at 100% all the time. If you see any EV accelerating, it will reach max speed (legal or driver desired), in a few seconds, maybe hitting 100% power output. Once the car is at constant speed, it will consume an smaller amount. An EV at 100~120 km/h consumes about 20~30kW even on a climb, way less than peak power. The EV motors can operate continuously at this "low" power numbers with liquid cooling without issues.

  • @howyanow4810
    @howyanow4810 2 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    I always wondered why Tesla went with that copper design when you said it wasnt as good. Fair play sandy for saying Tesla was right.

    • @Icayn
      @Icayn 2 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      When Sandy says better he means cheaper to build. Tesla chose the wound method because it’s cheaper but the other method offers more fill and is mostly seen as better but more costly and complicated to build.

    • @davidharris7249
      @davidharris7249 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@Icayn Better has lots of components, one is cheaper, which is cost of components, ease of manufacture, failure rate. Better also includes; efficiency, durability, predictable characteristics, etc.

    • @Icayn
      @Icayn 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      @@davidharris7249 I agree, but my point is Sandy only gauges “better” by what is cheaper to manufacture. It’s a fault of his in my opinion, he couldn’t care less about ease of service, long term reliability, cost of repair, or even final cost to consumer. He obsesses over fewer screws, and fewer parts, no matter the cost to the consumer.

    • @davidharris7249
      @davidharris7249 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@Icayn Agree, but he does stress that in EVs every gram saved means better efficiency and more range -- and less cost in parts and manufacture, and a better product if done right. Elon: the best part is no part.

    • @Icayn
      @Icayn 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@davidharris7249 not sure that approach is best for the driver/consumer in every case. The Germans say to heck with efficiency and just use a bigger battery. This allows them to give us superior build quality and more traditionally luxurious interiors and higher levels of refinement. All the screws VW likes to use cuts down on noise harshness and vibration. That matters to me. I don’t care if they used one stamp to make the entire car at the factory, I care about comfort, reliability, and cost to own long term.

  • @krishnaaditya2086
    @krishnaaditya2086 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Awesome Thanks!

  • @c5173
    @c5173 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Another great video and informative presenation

    • @MunroLive
      @MunroLive  2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Glad you enjoyed it

  • @kurtisengle6256
    @kurtisengle6256 2 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    "Skin Effect" is caused by all the electrons in the wire repelling each other.
    This is why multi-stranded cable can carry more current than a similar mass solid conductor. Stranded wire has more surface area.

    • @joels7605
      @joels7605 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Does skin effect matter at EV motor inverter frequencies? So far as I can tell, most EV manufacturers are using frequencies between 2 kHz and 10 kHz. That's pretty low frequency and results in pretty thick skin depth.

  • @josecandelario284
    @josecandelario284 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Quote of the day: "Only a Fool will stay in one position forever!" I am 99.9% sure Mr. Munro was referring to Proverbs 18:2.

  • @technologyandsociety21C
    @technologyandsociety21C 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Great analysis!

  • @nickwulf
    @nickwulf 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I really like the teardown, please include a teardown montage in future videos

  • @johntoccafondi2059
    @johntoccafondi2059 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    I’m 62. Is it to late to change my major to engineering?

  • @rogerfroud300
    @rogerfroud300 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Could you please take the Differential apart, I'd be interested to see what that's like inside.

  • @no_more_free_nicks
    @no_more_free_nicks 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    3:35 - yes this differential seriously kicks ass!

  • @floringrigore614
    @floringrigore614 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    For the job you do you have my respect for trying to do in your own beliefs!

  • @elmirio8500
    @elmirio8500 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Love that new info changes Sandy’s perspective, does a lot for credibility other than unbiased critique.

    • @rogerstarkey5390
      @rogerstarkey5390 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Are you suggesting some opinion has been biased?

  • @klauswagger9015
    @klauswagger9015 2 ปีที่แล้ว +13

    Hello Sandy.
    Im Sorry to correct you but the Gearbox is a GKN desing. Magna has not contributed into these design

  • @san080890
    @san080890 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Nice Video thanks.

  • @davidwilkie9551
    @davidwilkie9551 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Worth talking about so also worth listening to.

  • @creatorgenerator1998
    @creatorgenerator1998 2 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    Hah! A "partridge & a pear tree"? Y'gotta keep that sense of humour Sandy. Critical in your line of work!

  • @Jethr001
    @Jethr001 2 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    Once again, great dissection Dr. Munro!
    So wouldn’t an oil filter in a lubrication system increase the longevity of the device? I imagine Tesla having more electric vehicles on the road than anyone else might have a evaluated this, no?

    • @franciscoshi1968
      @franciscoshi1968 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      A gearbox in an EV is similar to a rear diff in an ICE car. They don't have pumps or filters and they last the life of the car.
      It seems to me Ford has more experience making transmissions than Tesla.

    • @davidharris7249
      @davidharris7249 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@franciscoshi1968 But Ford didn't make these components.

    • @franciscoshi1968
      @franciscoshi1968 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@davidharris7249 no but they know how to find some one that will make a gearbox that will last for the correct price. They have been doing this for a long time.

    • @davidharris7249
      @davidharris7249 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      @@franciscoshi1968 Ok, but you original statement did not say that.

    • @neeljavia2965
      @neeljavia2965 2 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      Some guy in Germany has a 10 year old Tesla with over 1 million miles driven.
      His motor seems to work fine.

  • @maksimillian911
    @maksimillian911 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thank you!

  • @anthonyizzo5917
    @anthonyizzo5917 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    great Video, Munro you got it right

  • @ElDJReturn
    @ElDJReturn 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Am I the only one who says "Hey boys and girls" at the beginning as soon as I see Sandy? Just gotta love how he always says that!

    • @rogerstarkey5390
      @rogerstarkey5390 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @420KinK
      Only if you're insecure 😉

    • @ElDJReturn
      @ElDJReturn 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @420KinK well, definitely by not acknowledging Non-binary peoples. Unfortunately with people of Sandy's generation there are still some things they are not aware of.

  • @robertlinder6414
    @robertlinder6414 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    I just spoke to Cory this morning. Nice guy to talk to.

    • @MunroLive
      @MunroLive  2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Hey Robert! Your new stickers and Magnet are on the way!

    • @robertlinder6414
      @robertlinder6414 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Moved to $10 per month from $5 for the tier level

  • @anthonyxuereb792
    @anthonyxuereb792 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Words of praise indeed.

  • @philippedehemptinne4248
    @philippedehemptinne4248 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thanks Sandy for your presentations. I like the American way of doing engineering and looking for cheaper costs

  • @charlesball6519
    @charlesball6519 2 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    I wonder why Ford didn't go with Magna in both front and rear motors? The rear motor is Borg Wagner, which didn't look as nice as the Magna version.

    • @sokosa
      @sokosa 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      price maybe?

    • @blueryxfalls7949
      @blueryxfalls7949 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      As Sandy mentioned in previous videos: 2 engineers not communicating to each other.
      Or Ford just took what they had in the parts bin.

    • @abraxastulammo9940
      @abraxastulammo9940 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      The "transmission guys" might have a hand in it. 🙄

    • @brianb-p6586
      @brianb-p6586 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      The front and rear have two different sets of requirements (for power, space, weight, etc), which were met by two different product, which happened to come from two different suppliers.

  • @jairokg
    @jairokg 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Nice intro man

  • @meeder78
    @meeder78 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Toyota gas been using the hairpin style stators starting with the 4th gen hybrid drivetrain (Prius 4 for example).