Okay guys, mini plot hole: When Kellogg shoots your wife in the original cutscene, you hear a bullet casing hit the floor. Kellogg was using a .44 Revolver. A shell shouldn’t have hit the floor since Revolvers don’t eject shells when fired. Thought it was interrsting
Still trying to understand how a lot of the settlements that have been around for so called “years” have skeletons, rubble, and no crops or water supplies until you show up
That's basically what made me stop taking FO4 worldbuilding and writing seriously. When I came across that dinner near the starting area, with the owner trying to fight off drug dealers, and the place looks like it was bombed yesterday and there's the skeleton of a guy still having his breakfast, I couldn't help but think they didn't take the worldbuilding seriously. And, you know, I'm fine with that. The worldbuilding can be cheesy and clumsy, but this isn't what we've come to expect from Fallout.
Fallout 2 handles this aspect a lot better. There are massive high-tech cities in that game, with the apocalypse being just a distant memory. Something that would be the case after such a long time.
I hate that too. When it came to the place being dirty and in ruins I had to make up my own lore that people before the war just didn't have the concept of cleaning stuff or its just how people evolved as pessimistic after so many years living in the shit... But some of it is just stupid! Why skeletons? its so annoying!
i played Fallout 4 for the first time this year. hearing Kellogg’s voice coming from Nick was absolutely shocking and *chilling.* i was so disappointed that it never actually went anywhere narratively.
Because it doesn't have to be Kellogg's conscience taking over Nick, it can actually pretty much be just a pre-recorded message left in the implant and forwarded to Nick, because after all, Amari used Nick as a medium, a connector between you and Kellogg. So yea, one message left in Nick's brain has to be a big thing and has to mean a plot hole right away.
@@Croftice1 dude, Nick has no clue what happend after it... and if it was a recording, you'd expect it to be able to be heard again, but no, its only in that one instance. And remember, Kellogg is dead... there's no way to of transfered a message unless Kelloggs brain somehow leached itself to Nick
@@matthplays-2312 Hey, I have just started a new playthrough about a week ago, and last night I was in that mission about something something Kellogg's mind, at the aftermath of it, when Nick talks to you posing as Kellogg, if you have a sarcastic response a path of dialogues are unlocked, in which Valentine says that now you have to live with the doubt if it was really Kellogg's talk, or him just fucking with you. Edit: I can provide pictures of it via discord, if you want me to.
@@user-nc7fg3mf2bthey probably were to an extent, used by dissidents and gangs as makeshift guns and passed onto others.. why they’re in a safe idk, maybe to use as a holdout weapon of sorts?
Exactly. It's a good open world fps with a decent amount of customization and not really anything else. I like the game a whole lot but it's one of my least favorite fallout games just cause it breaks lore almost in every reference to past games or material and it's not even a RPG.
@@KeithSchwerin I don't really think that's a good explanation, as Jet didn't exist in Fallout 1 (around the year 2161) and the actual creator (Myron) explains how it's actually synthesized.
pyre78 one common statement I hear is that it's impossible to synthesize Jet without Brahmin but that bars the possibility that the Brahmin dung fumes aren't just coincidentally similar in composition and effects to the pre-war synthetic chemical known as "Jet" and Myron discovered a process to fully refine the former into the latter.
Yeah. It would have been great to have a thing where Nick gets a kind of Split personality going, and you can do a questline to either Purge Kelogg out of Nick's head, or put Kelogg into a new Synth body
Well, put the detective into fallout 5. And deal with it there. Maybe reveal based on the new players actions wether Kellogg killed the sole survivor or not. Or add the sole survivor into the game as well and then decide if we kill them based on how far into the synth’s quest we are. Maybe decide the ending of fallout 4 based on the ending of fallout 5. If new kid sided with the brotherhood it is likley so did the sole survivor. Etc.
I always wanted them to randomly take charge of the body and have Kellogg kind of be "on your team" to a degree. He could've been a really interesting character had he been able to survive in some capacity
I would have liked to experience more of Kellogg, even if he's talking through Nick. Maybe he and Nate could develop a sort of grudging respect, despite the murder of Nate's wife. All while Nick is a mediator. Granted, Nick isn't a required follower, and can be replaced by someone else for the rest of the story, but the opportunity was there. It's always odd to see how angry Nate can be at Kellogg, to the point where every dialogue choice is hostile, but there's never that same amount of vitriol for the Institute in general, or Shaun.
The one that gets me is the fact that when the bombs fell, it was morning. However, there are cars at the Starlight Drive-In, but you only visit a Drive-In at night, when you can see the screen.
Whose to say he was referring to the war though? These explosions could have come from the minutemen battle that happened in concord some weeks ago (or months, I forget when exactly it happened)
I mean Nick is 100% my favourite, but would have been just so awesome if he was to also be Kellogg as well somewhere inside and maybe you could actually talk to Kellogg and get his take on why he did what he did instead it is "bad guy" "kill him" "learn nothing else" and by do what he did I mean why he took the implants and whatnot, you know the shit we never learn about mainly is what I am talking about.
my favorite is Deacon, 2nd Fave is Codsworth, 3rd is Cait, 4th is Dogmeat. But yeah I do like Nick as well. He's prob comes in 6th for me right after Hancock. I honestly never liked X6 and I usually dont travel with MacCready. I usually avoid the Vault Curie was in but I did get her once and she was meh. Piper is just too damn "I want to help the world" type. I almost forgot preston....yeah I dont need someone bugging me every 5 seconds for shit I dont care about so him and strong are last. I wouldnt mind strong if he just stfu once in a while but he never does.
@@cultofmalgus1310 if we are talking about best storytelling, it's Cait and maccready for me. Piper has a cool story about the town she's from but I hate all the 1 dimensional "I'm good" attitude she has. Literally never had a playthrough with x6-88 Dogmeat obviously has the best storytelling ability. Strong is one of those characters that it actually hurts my ears to hear talk all the damn time. Preston is basically male Piper but worse somehow. But Nick valentine just could have been a crazy good character if Kellogg was mixed in with him.
Getting Kellogg out of Nick would have been quite the replacement to the eddie winter bonding quest for Nick. Could also be fun if you can choose to keep either Nick or Kellogg, especially when Kellogg Nick could meet Dima.
I get the impression that the player character probably does just a bit more wandering than most people, but you're totally right. 200 years is a really long-ass time. You'd think at some point at least some wandering monster would hear him and try to break open the fridge or something to eat him lol
There's another video "updating" the plot hole, it turns out that when "the bombs fell" was actually the Minutemen's attack on the fort before the beginning of the game, that's why when the kid came back to their parents they don't seem shocked at all
@@valianthen It's not... his parents got turned into Ghouls when the bombs fell, but Billy was shocked that his parents were ghouls too. It's heavily implied by both Billy and his parents that he's been in there since the nukes 200 years ago. Quincy wasn't irradiated, no one ghoulified because of the Quincy Massacre.
Even IF Billy did not need to eat, drink, or even breathe to live... Wouldn't he have gone completely insane, being trapped in such a tiny, dark space for 200 years?
Sole survivor was trapped in a tiny dark space for 200 years. His/her sense of time got completely messed up and only thought a decade or two has passed. Perhaps the same happened with billy. Being in a fridge for that long with no way to tell how long time has passed, maybe for him it only felt like a few months or years. Even thought it’s been 200.
@@aeternus2036 survivor felt like moments passed. We experience it in "real time" when we play. No idea why you think that would be remotely similar to experiencing 200 years
@Basically I'm Schlorping get locked in a small dark box then tell me about your sense of time. It's not the best logic but you overestimate how dumb it is.
I recall at one point, I came across a ghoul that was dying of radiation poisoning and begged for radaway. It bothered me a lot more than it should have
That sounds like some Mandela effect shit right there. Unless it was Harold in FO 1/2. He's not quite a ghoul, but not human either. He's basically a shitty ent.
Maybe because he knows he's slowly turning into feral? That could be the case too since I remember in fallout NV that they are actually not immune to radiation but rather have very high resistence to it.
@@kaungsetmoe4876 nop. if i remember well, a ghoul is only feral if their brains have been damaged by radiation before they transform into a ghoul. if you turn into a ghoul, you are pratically safe, as you are pratically imune to radiation now.
Further issues with Billy. How did no one else hear him in a time spanning two centuries? How does he say his legs are stuff, then immediately get up absolutely fine anyway? How did he retain enough presence of mind to basically still be a kid, after two centuries of being locked in the dark, in a fridge, and essentially having no idea what was happening outside? How did he retain enough presence of mind not to go freakin' insane from the solitary confinement?
There are so many in Fallout 4! My biggest gripe, out of all of them, are NPC’s reactions to companions. You’re telling me, the anti-(ghoul, super mutant, synth, railroad) BOS is going to be perfectly ok with you and your companion being on their flagship? Compared this to NV. If you had Boone with you, he would attack any member of the Legion regardless of the character’s relationship with them.
Yeah, the closest you get is some bickering between them and it sucks when you realises there are small details with companions that no one would care of such as Codsworth talking to that chef protectron in diamond city and fully understanding him as they chat about robCo
Excellent logic. BOS don't like ghouls therefore it doesn't make sense for them to make an exception for you and is therefore bad writing. Like certainly there are a million different reasons as to why they put up with allowing your ghoul/super mutant companion with you. FO3 did the same thing with the super mutant companion. It's almost like it doesn't matter and it would just be annoying to have to send your follower back to wherever whenever you wanted to get onto the Prydwen because you know, it's a game...
I always viewed the end of dangerous minds as kellogg giving the sole survivor one final parting message before fading away for good, but it would've been cool to essentially have kellogg as a companion inside nick's head
Maybe if you could choose between saving Nick, or letting Kellogg overwrite his body, and depending on who is in the body, they can be your companion. I would kinda like that
I always hated the major Kellogg plot holes, he wasn't just unused for the end of Dangerous minds, the whole writing surrounding him was trash. He kidnapped Shaun 60+ years ago but somehow doesn't know or even realize shaun is "the old man" as he calls him, which admittedly he wouldn't necessarily be privy to that kind of info but for some reason thinks he's like 10. I get that years/time keeping might not be that well recorded after an apocalypse but he's gotta know the difference between 10 and 60 years. What they freeze him for 50 after he got shaun for them?
@@marikasdaughter6263 Considering that Kellogg is just an asset to them, and that the institute is... well... the institute, I find it (while rather unsatisfying of an explanation) completely plausible that they simply freeze Kellogg when he's not in use. Possibly even wipe his memories of these freezings so that he harbors no ill intent towards them. This could also explain why he believes Shaun is still 10, as he would be frozen for about 50 years, and then unfrozen once the institute caught wind that you were wandering around, and his memory of that time would be wiped, so he'd have no idea that the time passed. The institute would probably then be using Kellogg as bait for you so they could kill your or lure you to them. It also makes a lot more sense for the institute for him to be guarded by an army of synths if when he's on is a mission to lure you there for termination rather than him just keeping his synths with him wherever he goes. Also, since I know someone might bring it up, yes, I do believe that the fortress we find him in is a place of residence due to the terminal, his place of residence when he's NOT frozen, to clear up any confusion he might have about not having a home.
I was more curious about why the Brotherhood just went and blew up the Institute. Every Fallout game tells me that the Brotherhood's agenda is collection of technology. What's the Institute if not the holy grail of such technology? Cybernetics, bio research, weaponry, teleportation?...
Exactly. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's dictated in their codex which is the equivalent to the Bible. But then again, since Lyon's leadership, the brotherhood has changed. Still, it's highly out of character to blow the entirety of the institute complex, even if they despise the place as a synth factory. Sounds more like something the Legion would do, loathing technology, blowing up an underground complex full of technologies.
@@maddermax3162 It shows bad writing lmao. I think Bethesda just didn't want to put in the work to make more than 2 endings to their awful Fallout clone.
@@Foxingg It makes sense for the brotherhood to develop down the path of zealous tech extermination though, given that a more radical leader has been placed in charge
If you do certain dialogue's in Fallout 2. You find out that Jet Addiction is what got one woman kicked out of the city growing up around Vault 8 i believe it is. Can't remember her name right now, just remember she's a woman you can end up sleeping with. And that event the way she talks about it was a few decades in her past. Before the boy genius supposedly came up with it. Which directly contradicts the supposed creation of Jet even within it's own game. So it's not really as much of a plot hole as it's treated as. This is even in the Wiki and a few other sources. Though it tends to be heavily ignored by most desperate to make this a plothole and thus a huge mark against the game and Bethesda.
@@inspectorjavert9868 I was told that with high science you can get him to admit the idea wasn't his and he'll get mad at you but I can't verify it. I don't have access to the game any longer and it's been a while since I played it in depth. I just know he is called out for it.
There is an easy retcon to whole Jet/Myron situation: Myron recreated Jet, not created it from scratch. As he himself describes it he was looking to create that kind of drug and only incidentally found it's brahmin dung that's the main ingredient.
@@PobortzaPl Except... All of that is completely un-needed if the game myron comes from. And even potentially Myron himself potentially contradicts the narrative anyway. Which it does to some fair extent. Many people have not played the game and they go off of things like the Fallout Bible (which is non-cannon and had horrendous continuity issues to begin with) Or they go off of things that people have told them or occasionally the wiki. Which has been getting edited lately to actually remove that factual details in the game surrounding the issue of Myron and Jet by some of these same people.
When it comes to Billy I usually just chalk it up to some weird hibernation ability. There are more then a few feral ghouls that have just sat around in isolated places and never starved to death. Maybe in the absence of any stimulus ghouls can just shut down. The fact that Billy is still sane after 200 years in a box also makes me think that he was asleep most of that time.
Its totally possible, there are animals that are like this. Like desert frogs that can go into a deep dormant state for years and only wake up when it rains
I think the radiation just mutated people differently like how people are more susceptible to different diseases and stuff. That’s why some can age and can starve and some don’t.
I always found it weird that nobody settled Sanctuary before you came out of the vault, like in comparison to other places, Sanctuary is in pretty good condition, and there's also the mysterious workbenches that end up there which would lead you to believe that someone attempted to settle there at one point. But when you get there, aside of, Codsworth its completely abandoned.
Sanctuary and the house used as a player base makes me feel like Sanctuary was used for a while by merchants/caravans as a temporary settlement. We also should consider that Sanctuary is really far away from Diamond City, that is the ''center'' of the Commonwealth.
Or how half the settlements look like they just got there and nobody bothered picking up the trash or removing the skeletons or boarding up windows or getting fresh food and water going or doing anything remotely productive in general. Bethesda makes good games but this game is supposed to be 200+ years after the bombs, not 2 years before anyone has had the chance to do anything productive
@@robvinsky I would legitimately say this tends to be an issue with the franchise in general. Even New Vegas which I do love as a game in many locations doesn't look like it has been occupied by an industrial society for 8 years, much less under a technocrat like Mr. House. It is just basic stuff like moving the broken cars from the road and maybe paving up some of the highways with the concrete pouring equipment we know the NCR has which would give it a feeling of being more inhabited. This really just seems to be more of an issue with the franchise itself really wanting to maintain a certain look even when logically things should be cleaned up a bit more.
That would take too much effort and ... You know, that awful four letter word. Work. Besides, why do that when you can just make everything a cashgrab?! Better yet, allow a third party to make a better version but pretend it doesn't exsist.
@@greendude0420 We know how much you all have been looking forward to the next Elder Scrolls. And we know you have been expecting another Fallout. So we at Bethesda are proud to present: The Elder Scrolls VI: Fallout V!
1:40 I know there’s no canon lore to allow this theory, but my theory is that Jet was a very premature chem on the east coast. Myron didn’t actually create jet, he created a way to make jet post war. So Myron studied pre war jet and found a way to make it in a post war fashion. This is how I rationalize it since the non Bethesda games take place on the west coast and Bethesda games take place on the east coast.
That's not a theory, it's more or less facts, Myron didn't create jet. There's a voice line in F2 where you can expose him for this. He admits he didn't make it but not to tell anyone, he only made a way to make it faster
Jet is really just the fallout universe's name for methamphetamine. Like how Fallout 3 had to change Morphine to Med-X most of the original names were made up to avoid censorship problems since there's some inherent ickyness in making a real-life drug essentially a 'powerup'. But in some dialogue with the pharmacist in New Reno you learn that jet addiction is just good ol' fashioned meth addiction.
Here is a plot hole: the X-01 power armor was made by the enclave but you can find it (if on a high enough level) near crashed vertibirds with skeletons in US army uniforms indicating that they where there before the war Editing to say there is literally a loading screen which says X-01 was post war
@@davidewhite69 That's actually not a plot hole at all, the x-01 was mass produced by the enclave but there were limited prototypes already in development. There is one guaranteed one protected by a sentry bot atop some building I forget it's name, and the nuka cola quantum one is probably some corporate deal like "we see how quantum works in fusion cores we get to unveil the new power armor to the public". As for just finding them in the wastes In level lists that's just game mechanics not lore breaking. If we took every game mechanic as lore legendary effects would have a lot of explaining to do
Kellogg in Nicks head Just sparked an Idea for a Quest in my head: Nick Acts more and more Like Kellogg while you travel with him and do detective Work. At some Point He Attacks you and Kellogg tries to Take over nicks Body. Nick then tries to get Kellogg Out of His psyche/Data/whatever, But cant get it done. He tells you, you have to kill him and Kellogg with him. But maybe the Institute or the railroad can Help. You then enter Nicks subconscious memory, where Kellogg has Hidden away, because He noticed Nick trying to get him Out. And then you find yourself in the memories of the REAL Nick Valentine. The human. Synth-nicks detective persona and human-Nicks cop Life have merged a little, you enter Nicks office and then you do some noir-film-esque detective Work to track down kellogg, the new Strange mercenary in town, kill him and restore Nicks Psyche. If anyone Here is good with mods or knows someone who is, feel Free to steal the Idea.
The Libery Prime bit could simply be a pre-prepared publicity blurb ready to be used after the expected victory that was triggered by either a glitch or the passage of time.
@@LadyDoomsinger Thing is it wasn't just Power Armor, Prime was supposed to go to Anchorage until they reached the deadline that forced the US Government to pull out a shit ton of protoypes like vertibrids, and gauss rifles to replace Prime. Mr. House even had a portrait of part of Prime. Prime would have been a massive PR boost stunt to prove how unstoppable the US government was.
The biggest plot hole. Shawn's plan is don't send a synth to meet you at 101 exit but expected you to: 1-kill an "unkillable" courser. 2- find railroad. 3-go to hell on earth Glowing sea and find virgil (that can be anywhere in the commonwealth by now). 4- build a teleporter out of junk. 5-believe him to be your shawn with zero evidence.
He didn't release you to come find him He says that was a possibility but he didn't know. He released you just to see how you acted. What kind of person you were. I'm sure he would have teleported out eventually to meet you, but you beat him to the punch. In essence he didn't plan for you to do all this. He just expected you to live, that's what he wanted to see. That was his plan.
The liberty prime thing could be explained by the line being programmed BEFORE Alaska was successfully defended, and was programmed to automatically be added to the orientation after a certain date, and then never edited to the correct events before the bombs fell, allowing the preprogrammed line to come to be
It's also completely possible, being a sleezy corporation, they left it in despite being completely false to make themselves appear better than they really are.
Am I the only one who thinks that what was meant by that line was Liberty Prime's design lead to modern power armor like what was used to defend Alaska?
@@Maddiedoggie exactly, Fallout 4 lore is like Dragon Age 2: a swiss cheese at his best. At least Dragon Age 2 could refuge on an unreliable narrator, but fallout 4 can't
With the kellog thing on nick, there could be a passive skill, like "Permanently increase Nick's damage and accuracy by 40%, but has a little chance to shoot you randomly"
I think the Kellogg stuff was just his last goodbye. We got to see his whole life against his will and he still got to have the last laugh by momentarily taking over nick and freaking out the sole survivor.
Synths replace Humans by killing them. Roger killed the Synth that was send to take his place. Then he become sober because he knows, if the Institute figure out that their Synths was destroyed they will send another one. And another one. Until he is replaced. Roger is a Human, acting like a Synth working for the Institute to the purpose of his survival. At the core. He replaced the Synth that should replace him. Plothole fixed.
I just saw the Hulk in Avengers: Endgame talking about Science stuff and wearing glasses... talking about anger resolving plot holes... i just dont care anymore ...
@@LazyKingAusthat easy fear he knows that if get angry they will notice that is why he trying to act calm fear is motivating this man to not lose control and also being sober can also resolve his anger issue
@@gabebachke12 what if the scientist took pity on the man? None of this is probably even a thought in the guy who wrote it but I think something like this could be a cool little twist
Ghouls need water too, there's a whole subplot in Fallout 1 about it. Keely in New Vegas talks about how she had to collect food / water while trapped in Vault 22
I'd probably rationalise why some ghouls need to eat and drink like a normal person, some needing to drink and eat occasionally and some not needing to eat and drink pretty much at all by theorising that there's different severities of ghoulification and the amount of activity that they do. Billy was stuck in a fridge doing nothing so could've been sustained by the small amount of radiation not shown up as rads
I love how you used the phrase 'grew out of it' to describe a child becoming an adult. Yeah, I used to be a kid, but I grew out of that. It was just a phase.
Plot hole: when you go into Kelloggs memory you can hear diamond city radio talking about piper. This all happened 60 something years ago so unless he was talking premature piper idk how that’s posssible
Nah if you are talking about kellogg being sent to find virgil that was recent like a while ago as x6-88 is in that memory plus Amari says that is recent
Kellogg's memories are kind of a narrative mess, really; Bethesda was so set on that major plot twist that Shaun was actually old and now head of the Institute that they forced a bunch of plot elements that in hindsight make little sense. As far as I can tell, Kellogg's memories conveniently have a 60-year gap between the memory of him taking Shaun from the Vault and him living with "Synth Shaun" in Diamond City. The weirdest part about Kellogg isn't even that he hasn't aged at all in over 60 years - that can be explained by cybernetic sci-fi techno-babble. But *why* hasn't he changed his hair *or* his clothes in over 60 years?!
@@LadyDoomsinger He's bald. Why doesn't anyone in 90% of the video games out there ever change their clothes? Maybe he has an outfit and a look he likes.
@@LadyDoomsinger That would have been a nice touch to make it more believable, seing these small changes throughout time. Truth is that Fallout 4 was shat out without much care given to it.
Never thought of this as a problem... my thoughts has always been that the boy wonder found a stash of jet and made more... either through reverse engineering or finding a recipe close to the stash.... I'm just surprised that people see this as a major problem since it's not something new... many things in our world get "discovered" or "invented" even though it already existed but was forgotten.... which is highly possible in a world that got nuked and lost most records... but that's just me
And this is how you know if people only ever learn about drugs from TV or games. Theres a ton of different compounds that give the "same" effect as LSD or extasy, theyre all called the same thing as the original but is new stuff. Jet is probably no different, if it is indeed just brahmin gas then people would have already found it before the war. I mean its not like people get high on lighter fluids or something...
@@Mr3ppozz the reason the invention of jet is often brought up is because is an easy example that requires no in depth knowledge to fully understand, the problem being exemplified being bethesda's complete lack of regard for even the pretense of continuity in any of their games.
@@gmh3 My understanding was that Jet is a vaporized form of methamphetamine (understandable since one of the ingredients in FO4 is Fertilizer). Conversely, MedX is Morphine and Psycho is PCP given then in-game effects.
@silverfoxeater 1. poop is poop. people literally still get high on cow poop in our own world. its a thing, The difference isn't great enough that the main component of poop fumes wouldn't still have its main effects. In their world they could have just code worded the cow dung as jet, which just became a more advanced form when the bombs fell. As I said it doesn't really conflict with anything because Caravanners could have literally been inspired to make jet because they were aware that poop fumes were a thing. 2. I don't find it hard to believe, plenty of stupid things slip past the smartest people on the planet in our every day lives. Some things that happen in our daily lives are just a happenstance of freak stupidity. like a guy sending Google random bills through the mail and the company actually paying them and him getting away with millions of dollars until he's eventually caught. Just because a guy got away with it for years doesn't mean that the institute would be fooled forever. 3. there is a reason for them to lie, you assume that the people there would know about it, this wouldn't necessarily be the case as I said the people working there could have been fresh recruits that were forced under non-disclosure agreements being brainwashed by corporate history, causing an elevated sense of pride. Its again not like our current companies don't do in a way the same things for stupid reasons. At least we agree on the last ones.
@@chaosdirge4906 1) Fallout 2 explains it's not their poop. It's the growth on top of it which acts as a stimulant. Both the growth (Fungi) and the poop from Brahmins didn't exist pre-war. So please stfu about things you don't understand in the fallout lore Bethesda fan boy.
@@chaosdirge4906 3) A company would not tell you top secret information before you were hired. You'd have to sign that NDA beforehand. An entry-level employee wouldn't be allowed top secret information either. So yeah, no.
With Roger Warwick, I wonder if maybe the Institute could convince someone they were in fact a Synth. Fabricating all sorts of "evidence" and giving them a mission of an experiment when in fact they were the experiment.
My favorite plot hole is how Shaun is not deaf considering he was less than a year old when a .44 magnum went off less than a foot away from him, the sound of which could be heard through your cryo pod
He could be deaf - would explain why he basically ignores everything the player says to him, and responds the same no matter what dialogue option you choose. But then, if that was the case, that would imply that 80 - 99% of the Commonwealth's population is deaf.
Spartan War118 if you want something fun to think about. In real life it’s like something around 8% of the mass in canned meats and minced meats like hamburgers and chicken nuggets is human DNA. So everyone in real life has committed cannibalism.
nop, he doesnt say it. Actually, he doesnt even remember that he said something like that. so yeah, in that moment, kellog took over nick, and it would be so much fun having this duality, where kellog could took over him anytime and then a subplot develops. but, bethesda going to be bethesda!
When you bring it up he says Dr Amari warned them about lingering neuro something or another but he'll be alright. So basically he has an impression of Kellogg that will pass.
I always thought jet was just a normal inhaler based on one time I took all of my inhaler in one night and felt my heart beating and it felt like time was slow
@@spicybeantofu If you dont play video games, you should not work on video games. Its like saying - "Do people who write screenplay watch movies? I wouldn't watch movies if my job was movies." Well, you would be shit at your job then. If you are not a fan of the medium, dont work for the medium, go find a job in whatever the fuck you enjoy.
@@liboud22 So in your way of thinking, all airplane mechanics need to be pilots aswell? Sometimes distance is a good thing when writing, less chance to be sucked in to old tropes.
@@Tatwinus you're taking things too literally and too far. His logic only implies that you should work on something you are passionate about. Your example with the plane could be said that the machanic really has a passion for airplanes in its every form, be it in the air or on the ground. You don't have to be overly passionate, can just be a hobby too you know.
@@Tatwinus No, they dont need to know how to fly the plane, but they absolutely need to understand how the fuck an aircraft works. You dont go - "Well I wouldn't learn about aircrafts, if my job is to fix aircrafts." That is the essential, knowing the basics of whatever the fuck you want to do. A mechanic needs to learn everything about the machine. A lawyer needs to learn all the laws of the land. A movie maker needs to learn everything about movies. And a video game creator needs to learn everything about video games. Because if you don't, you are shit at your job.
I randomly killed Roger Warwick during a “what if” session before knowing any of this and he dropped a synth component when killed, that’s how I found out he was a synth, they must have patched it lol
Synth components are scripted to be added to a flagged NPCs inventory upon death. When he losses his essential status and gets updated it removes his flagging for some reason so he dosent drop it. It’s a weird glitch
@@scorchercast8366 what you are saying makes sense but I wonder how I can pickpocket someone and see a synth component in their inventory? Does it just have them with it or should it only be when they die?
@@alanluscombe8a553 given synth components are located in the core of a synths brain if they have one you can pick pocket if dosent mean there synth. It just means they some how got there hands on a synth component and are carrying it around If there actually a synth it should only spawn in there inventory on death as synth components are undetectable except upon a post mortem autopsy
I like to think that Molly had an in-built timer that had the date of the "expected" declassification of the Liberty Prime project that once it was over, Cambridge Polymer could talk about it. But since the bombs fell, no one could reprogram her to not say the speech, so enough time passed that her programming says "Oh! I can talk about this now."
That would suggest Molly is deviating from her programming. Well-maintained robots in the fallout universe stick closely to their programming (Curie needed clearance to open a unlocked door from anyone claiming to be from Vault TEC, the general atomic galleria staff continue to operate the display and follow outdated protocols). Robots that aren't well maintained deviate from their programming (I.E Codsworth having emotions, that Assaultron who opened a shop, whatever Deezer is doing) and usually can elaborate on their programming.
Let's not forget the Anti-Communist propaganda posters with Liberty Prime portrayed in the background (There's also another one with a Chinese Robot, so not to confuse them.)
Counter point: Robert House made an assumption, because there are no cats to be found in the Mojave and New California. Especially because he asserts it as a fact, but does not provide evidence. Cats may well have managed to survive in some places and not others. Since it's really damn hard to wipe out a species that ubiquitous. Doubly so when you realize cats are an invasive species in most locales. So House? Yeah he ain't as smart as he'd like everyone to believe. Especially not with how easily you can disable his security, shut down his robots, and go kill him. Especially when better security features exist in places he had build and that he approved the designs of.
About Jet: This plothole was fixed lateron by a change in the lore. Jet was a pre-war medication for cows to make them produce more milk and prevent them from getting sick. It lead to minor mutations ans After the war, brahmins already produced the stuff in their organs, so that their 'leftovers' contained traces of it. After the war, the original way to make it was lost, so not many people knew the drug any more. And the guy in fallout 2 just found a new way to make it by purifying bramin dung.
Doesn't Amari mention Nick might have some residual influence from Kellogg before Kellogg speaks through him? I always assumed it was just a fading trace of him, not a complete presence.
You're completely right. All it is, is a fading brainwave. I'm gonna prove my nerdiness here and compare it to the suits the scout team wear in the Vashta Nerada episodes of Dr.Who. The suits they wear are nurally connected and when someone dies or is unconscious the suit has a neral impression of the person's brain so the suit thinks it's the person until the signal fades and the brainwave dies.
there is also the possibility for this to be a pre-recorded line with Nick just acting as "speaker". Either way a computerchip doesn't die, so it is possible for the chip to retain some of Kellogg's "programming". Among the 5 this is definitly no plot hole, it's at best the rest of cut content.
Fo2 jet is jenkem fo4 jet is amphetamine the drug names were changed from their real life counterparts ie: medx/morphine because of clarification laws in Australia and a couple of other countries
With a high enough science skill you could convince him that all he did was create an apsirated amphetamine and combined it with fumes, rather than mastermind the most perfect drug from a pusher’s perspective from scratch (I believe there was a cut quest where you could develop and release a cure for jet addiction in FO2) but it was more about getting him to admit that his genius was actually just developing and building on stuff that already existed, than getting him to admit he didn’t create jet. Mind you, 1997/98 was a fair time ago, so I may have misremembered it, but Myron gets really shitty with you when you point out that “he ain’t all that”, and that anyone with access to some of the same information could probably have come up with Jet. But ultimately it was about making Jet extra-addictive, I think. I think that the “jet didn’t exist prior to the war” is a combination of an unreliable narrator bogging themselves up to look like a criminal genius, and a Mandela effect. Happy to be proven wrong, but that’s my memory/theory.
I mean granted alot of people just straight up died from the bombs, not everyone had enough money for test-subject-in-a-vault deluxe positions or really an actually viable way to survive the initial bomb drop So most people are probably dead, but it is true that there are times when there's just too much good stuff lying out in the open
All the other games you had to be taught things like operating power armour and you were a descendant or native of the land. In this game you are pre-war with Nate potentially already having some military training to the effect. So many of the suits you find. Which are in hard to reach places and very rusty. Are just wrecks to most people. Getting one working is daunting for the average explorer or scavenger. And the power cores to keep them running also hard to find. So folk that scrape together armour from baseball uniforms and use guns made from a copper conduit and some wood probably are not getting to the places to actually put a suit together.
Yeah... but if that is the reasoning every single open world game should have no loot left to loot after a while.. It's just a gameplay aspect. Without it the game wouldn't exist. So yes... It's not realistic, but it is a game.
Or that 200 year old Salisbury steak is still.....edible..... Also,I'm pretty sure even asprin has a shelf life,so all those un biodegradable bags of rad away & other prewar chems would be hazardous at best. Ever seen soda seperate water from the syrup? Yeah,pretty sure that plastic bottle of pop I seen do that was less then 200 years old
It woulda been dope if they made kellogg a permanent thing in Nick's head where they would switch back and forth between personalities depending on the situation, it would work if they made kellogg want to work for you and Nick because you took him out.
I thought that the Kellogg line from Nick was either, a) Kellogg using the last of the power in his chip to taunt the player and give them paranoia, or b) Nick playing a prank
Playing that kind of prank is not like Nick. Matter of fact he doesn't seem to ever like it when you are sarcastic to him or others. Plus of all the jokes or pranks he could do that would be the last choice since it hits pretty deep at an emotional subject. I do like your option A it gets my vote.
To me, it seems like Kellogg left the recording there just in case the player found him, killed him, and accessed his memories. Like an "if I'm this, it means I'm dead" kind of message to his enemy, which is the player. It also has the same sound effect that plays when holotapes play.
@@dweller132 it's still a cool concept (nick may be kellogg AT ANY TIME) that goes nowhere. That's the biggest problem. It's like putting a shotgun on a play (chekov's gun) and not using it.
I agree with this a lot, there’s at least two places I’ve found where it seems more was going on. Fort strong has a secret room with a fat man which would make sense of course since it was LITERALLY INVENTED THERE. But that room was cut. I feel like it should’ve also had a cool unique T-51 set since it was also the place where they were working on it. The generic power armour just isn’t good enough. The other place is Boston public library, there was a cut quest there about the preservation of knowledge. You find the guy who asks you to finish their work on the terminal entry but then... nothing. I’m rambling but I’m on another new play through again and these things just bug me lol
@@LazyY91 You're acting like Fallout 4 isn't the highest rated and most financially successful Fallout game to date. It's easy to verify on google. You don't like Bethesda. Fine. But don't act like every other game and company is even remotely perfect. At least attempt to hide your bias and ignorant stupidity.
The sign outside the combat zone that says something like "NO FIGHTING OUTSIDE THE PIT" but the raiders immediately shoot you when you arrive. Or the tied up prisoners in the combat zone that you can't free.
One of the problems wit "Plot Holes" involve the assumption that the knowledge we have available to us is universally known. When it comes to the Ghouls, they are mysterious and some people, even the Ghouls themselves might not know all about their physiology. A ghoul may have simply retained the habit of eating and never found out he didn't need too. Or people might not know they don't need to eat and insist on trying to feed the non feral ones.
I think the Nick Valentine thing could be considered a "hangover" effect where Nick hadn't quite flushed the last vestiges of Kellogg's personality and it just took a moment longer.
It's kind of odd that they essentially alluded to maybe this becoming a bigger issue down the line, and even implying the story wasn't over in regards to Kellogg. But then... it was just gone we never saw anything related to that again, was very disappointed about that. Nick Valentine's personal quest too was ended very abruptly for me, I just hate how at every turn in FO4 they continuously shot themselves in the foot when they got close to an even remotely interesting story line besides 'duhhhh my soooooon'.
@@PoptartParasol Literally gave no fucks about the son. We saw it for like two seconds and grew NO attachment to him. Had we spent even an hour or half an hour doing quests that lead up to the birth of the child etc to form a connection I might have cared more. The main quest was literally the last thing I did haha
I remember seeing a tweet where someone asked one of the writers about the jet discrepancy, mind you in an inquisitive way, wondering if there was a retcon or not. It was really discouraging because the writer outright said something along the lines of "I don't care, it's a fictional universe." Why even BE a writer if that's your stance on things?
Half the fun of writing is keeping things consistent and making it all line up. Feels like a super rewarding feat, that writer was clearly only in it for the money. Like, where’s the drive?
This is because Bethesda's writers don't care about lore. Just whatever they think will be "cool" in the moment. It's why one of the loading screens in Fallout 4 says X-01 was developed post-war, but it still shows up in Nuka World. It's why everything about Quantum in 3 makes it out to be a test product that never got out of Washington, but then it's super common in 4 and 76. It's also why the BoS blows up the Institute at the end of 4, rather than staying in character and trying to capture their technology. Bethesda just wanted the game to end with an explosion, because it's "cool".
How about Myron lied? He may have worked out how to make Jet from brahmen shit but that doesn't mean it can't just be a hyper effective adaptation of taurine that existed pre war and he found out how to replicate later. He may even have found the secret recipe.
@@iainmccord Okay, that would be a valid explanation, but the point is the writer could have thought about that rather than giving the wishy washy 'Lol dude it's a video game who cares' response they did to someone asking about this issue.
@@Hedhnter Not saying it's not a bit rude. Sometimes though it's not best to fill in too many blanks as you can write yourself into a corner. To be fair I didn't get the joke until I wrote my last post. Red Bull was introduced to the UK in 1994, and the US in 1997 which was the same year the first Fallout came out. Brahmin, the alleged source of Jet, were originally red bulls.
My theory is that the Ghoul child is actually a synth the Institute placed recently, in the hopes of him getting found and spying on the other ghouls. Normally I avoid the "XYX is actually a Synth!" theories, but in this case the this whole quest makes no sense if that isn't the case. The idea that after 200 years in a pitch black fridge: - He hasn't gone blind - He hasn't gone insane - Nobody else heard him screaming and just killed him (seriously, other factions are active around here) - No animals have heard him and thought it was food (mirelurks) - His clothes haven't rotted away - He hasn't just worn through the fridge through the erosion of punching it for 200 years - He can still talk after 200 years of screaming - He hasn't suffocated - He hasn't died of infection from being in a rusty fridge - Etc is ridiculous even by Bethesda standards, and I just can't suspend my disbelief on this one.
If you used this logic for all parts of fallout, you would realise that gen 3 synths shouldn’t even exist because the “uncorrupted sample” isn’t uncorrupted because some types of radiation travel at the speed of light
@@arjandhaliwal7029 I forgot I made that post haha. Nowadays I like the theory that he's only been in there for a few weeks much better. On the subject of synths, tbh the gen threes are really badly explained and make no sense in general. They are organic enough to pose as humans, use human DNA... yet are somehow unable to age and don't need to eat? They have a component in their body that means they are synth... but you can't see it with an MRI and you have to kill them to get it? They can be programmed like a robot, yet have an organic brain? Could that reprogramming work on a normal human? No? Why not then? And if they use DNA and don't have machine parts then surely they are a clone not a robot anyway? And so on. That said, as Fallout is a campy retro futuristic sci fi I can suspend my disbelief on their magic biology more than a random kid still being sane after 200 years in a box.
@@victorsrur134 ghoul are dead body who didn't know it. In New Vagas 3 ghouls speak about they rotten and decay. And they say savage ghouls are mad cause the brain is rotted they only left the rachid bulb ( not sure of the term I'm not english)
As far as the Warwick thing goes, I always felt that the quest Blind Betrayal should have intentionally ended the same way. If the player chooses to kill Danse, they loot his corpse, only to discover that there is no synth component. And there's never any explanation or follow-up, you're just left wondering what the truth really was and if you did the right thing. That shit would have haunted me for weeks. Maybe I'm just weird, but unanswered mysteries always get under my skin, in the best possible way.
It’s interesting about Roger Warwick because he’s not the only synth without a synth component in his inventory. Glory, who claims she’s also a synth, when she dies she doesn’t have a synth component in her inventory
@@Grimnirs_Oath Nope, it's just Bethesda sucking at creating games, they forgot to add a synth component to her inventory, because if she wasn't synth why does everyone else confirm that she is?
@@randomtommy5606 you are talking about Bethesda as if it’s a single entity. There was most likely a single person in charge of making glory’s inventory. And that person simply forgot to add a synth component. Because humans make mistakes.
@@Mr.Goufball a game is not made by independent individuals doing things with no input from everyone else. That's makes zero sense, there needs to be cohesion and a group (groups) and a leader (leaders). A system which, Bethesda and every other game company has... So yes 'Bethesda' is referred to as a single entity until otherwise specified, because the people who work under the company name work as a group and their work is then compiled into one entity. So it's not one person that 'forgot' to do this, but the group(s) that forgot to, and on top of that, forgot to check for its inclusion.
@@Mr.Goufball well there are more layers to it than that. the person doing the inventory forgot it, the team manager that is supposed to check their work missed it, the department that team works under missed it, and the QA testers also missed it. that isn't a simple mistake. that's entire groups of people that are bad at their job, or just don't care enough to fix small things like that
My main problem is how the whole interaction with Shawn works out. The Institute can create Synths that can't be distinguished from humans but they can't prove paternity?
They could show you some test tubes and a chart, but how would you know they're not lying? The Vault Dweller isn't a scientist. So you'd have to take their word for it anyway. So why bother with a test you have no reason to trust?
@@greenaum good point if you don't speck into intelligence then you can trust a dna test at all plus if your not familiar with your DNA and had a test before they could just show you any father child dna combo unless you do the test yourself... without using there computers because they can make human intelligence level ai you better not trust what there computers tell you
Considering they have a whole genetics lab that can create artificial humans no, they can only prove that someone has half your DNA consistent with paternity.
From what I've seen and heard, it's just that Kellogg isn't even connected to Nick anymore so it's just one final run of his personality before he's terminated
^This. It's the "Sarcasm" option. If the player is using sarcasm often, it's only fitting that Nick has a joke at the Sole Survivor's expense in the end.
I think it was a normal computer function: Kellogg's code (Personality, memory, voice...) was still loaded into Nick's RAM. Upon doing a few processes (IE: Walking up the stairs and talking to you), which eventually called for more information, most if not all the RAM was overwritten with fresh, Nick code.
To me the biggest plot hole is that the institute needed to take shaun at all. if all they needed was his 'uncorrupted dna', all they would have needed is something like bone marrow samples. And that could have come from the parents.
Considering you were on the surface when the bombs went off and the blast wave reached the elevator just as you descended wouldnt you be exposed to some amount of rads
@@blairthomas3920 Famous Russian author and playwright Anton Chekhov once famously said "Remove everything that has no relevance to the story. If you say in the first chapter that there is a rifle hanging on the wall, in the second or third chapter it absolutely must go off. If it's not going to be fired, it shouldn't be hanging there." Here, Kellogg possesses Valentine for a total of one whole line, but then it's never brought up again. Bethesda put the rifle on the wall but then never followed up with the bang. I actually have a three-hour video on my channel where I go into exuberant amounts of detail about this game, its strengths, and its flaws, if you're interested: th-cam.com/video/4jHf4gKc5so/w-d-xo.html
Personally, if I was Mrs. Warwick and I found out Roger was a synth I'd be okay with it. I'd be like "I know you're a synth, but you're a lot better of a husband than the old Roger, so can I like just keep you?"
He could can slaughter the entire family at any moment....it was more than implied it's happened before. I never seen wether that's because the Institute switched on a kill program and scrap that experiment or the synth just nutted up and became a psychopath.
@@drkspider13 I think I recall reading the specifics of that experiment on the Warwick Farm in one of the terminals inside the Institute, and the final step after experiments were complete was "cleanup". So in short, EVERYONE dies and the place is swept clean to make absolutely sure no traces are left. Which is hilariously backwards because a fucking synth killsquad rolls in on that settlement to wipe it out, and that's the opposite of sneaky.
honestly, i feel like if they gave us a dlc or a line of side quests where we explore nick being taken over by kellog and maybe dealing with some stuff from kellogs past or finding some way to to otherwise remove either nick or kellog from the body and choosing which one gets to go on would've been pretty neat, maybe we can be given a perk for helping kellog take over nick or something
Re: ghouls. We've also seen feral ghouls that are in sealed facilities or pulling themselves out of piles of rubbish. I expect that ghouls (feral or not) can go dormant for long periods of time until stimulated to 'wake up'.
and the way that mutation works, being random, would dictate that its very very likely that the ghoul disease/mutation manifests in different ways and traits
@@locktock9 Yeah that's what I was thinking. Some ghouls look and act like radioactive zombies, some are people. Heck some ghouls glow in the dark and some don't. It's also possible that some of the people who think Ghouls need to eat are actually wrong. It's possible that they eat out of habit because they used to need to eat, not because they currently need to eat. Has anyone ever seen a ghoul die of hunger? Or do they simply believe it to be possible because ghouls sometimes act hungry?
@@marhawkman303 that and the ghouls themselves may still feel the pain of hunger even if they cannot die of it, thus they'd crave food and even beg for it.
@@marhawkman303 Another reminder that Dean Domino in Fallout:NV admits that he doesn't actually know if he needs to eat or not and does it mostly out of habit. It seems that ghouls technically don't need to eat to live, but eating gives them the energy needed to move like all creatures that eat and ferals simply go dormant until something comes close for them to attack and eat for energy, not sustenance.
When I found the Kellogg after death thing out with Valentine, I thought there was going to be some further explanation too, but I was really disappointed. If they had expanded on this idea further, I think it could have been really interesting.
it looked like a latch for a "operation anchorage" stile dlc, or they could have add some extra mission when talking to DIMA in far harbor. but they didn't
@@serPomiz i had the exact same assumption. and im sure thats what the original plan was. but was left on the "cutting room floor" as are so many other good bethesda ideas.
@@serPomiz all the ideas I had were shit compared to yours. Great idea! Everything is all good, for all that time, just forgotten about... until you talk to Dima.
That part still pisses me off. They could have at least included various points of the game where Kellogg comes back out to taunt you more. Maybe even leaving it ambiguous as to whether or he’s actually in Nick’s mind or if you’re just going crazy. But no, only some brief shock value that ends up being totally pointless. Fuck this game’s writers.
I think it would have been a cool companion quest; more and more Kellogg quotes until you get a mission to properly restore Nick’s memory, learn about the institute’s earlier days. Oh well.
Got to be honest, a sub-plot in which Kellogg's personality slowly takes over Nick's body would have been awesome! Though if I heard Kellogg's voice coming out of Nick that first time, I'd think Kellogg already took over, and would have killed him all over again!
I wouldn't have, tbh. Kellog was a bad man, sure, but he was made that way by his upbringing and circumstance. And, in the end, his death came at the hands of yet another betrayal. I don't regret killing him, but I do feel sorry for him.
@@funnyvalentinedidnothingwrong Not everyone with a garbage upbringing and crappy circumstances chooses to become a soulless mercenary. Takes a certain type of vile to steal a baby out of his parent's arms and then murder that same parent.
Billy doesn't say he was in there for 200 years. He says something along the lines of "I hid in there after hearing bombs." He was right by Quincy, so he was probably there during the Quincy massacre. Either way, love the vids Nate!
It's heavily implied he's talking about the big bombs from the war 200 years ago, since when you reunite him with his parents he remarks how they look like him now too, and even how the parents talk about their situation, it very much seems like they're talking about when the nukes dropped.
I think that Billy was either trolling wastelanders from the fridge, or luring them into a scam with his 'parents'. The reason the player doesn't get scammed is because the gunners show up and attempt to raid the place and they realize that the player isn't someone they want to mess with. The gunner that wants to buy Billy only thinks that they don't age because he heard about a child ghoul from a wastelander who may have helped Billy in the past.
@@MoistGrundle how does anyone end up as a ghoul? Fallout says that certain people, when exposed to radiation will become ghouls. I say it's plot convenience.
@@seanpeacock4290 In F3 I'm pretty sure it's stated that all the ghouls ended up like that right after the bombs fell. But yeah, you're probably right, really. Bad writing.
@@warlordsquerk5338 Its too late now for that. Besides it would be weird for Nick to suddenly act like a 100 year old dead mercenary after destroying the Institute for the 10th time. It would've been awesome if it was in the game to begin with. Besides I think adding cut content as DLC is a bad idea. That's something EA would do.
Now, I'm not saying we should replace everyone with a bad tempter or bad intentions, but if I had an abusive father, I wouldn't mind him being replaced with a nicer version of him. Is that just me or would anyone else agree?
As far as I can remember, he wasn't actually "abusive" - he's described to "have a temper" and sometimes being unpleasant or stubborn. There is to my knowledge no mention of him physically hurting anyone (emotional abuse can be a bit more complicated to figure out). Even if he was abusive, being "replaced" implies the original was killed (so he wouldn't turn up and expose the replacement) - or at the very least held captive at the institute - probably used for nefarious experiments (such as their FEV project) - nobody deserves that, even if they are abusive.
I'm pretty sure there's a terminal entry about how the replacement is running experiments on the family, and will murder them all when it's done, so it kind of ruined that theme. I really like the idea of a particularly terrible person being replaced by a synth who's actually a decent guy, you could tie in all sorts of moral and philosophical questions, for the family and the synth and the player. Whether or not the player should tell everyone, or maybe someone already knows and wants to keep it a secret, or maybe you could talk the synth into admitting it and the family would react based on your conversations with them. So much potential. It would make a great quest, but of course, they had to screw it up.
As for the ghouls under the airport, the brotherhood member was feeding the ghouls to try and turn them from eating people. If he could get them to eat regular food he could keep them from trying to head to the surface by just eating food down there.
I agree. I just started a new play through, and noticed the thing about Kellogg speaking through Nick and did find it rather startling. I took it as Kellogg's parting message, since as soon as he stepped out with his hands raised, wanting to talk, I put a .308 through his forehead from the doorway with a critical shot I'd been saving before he could say anything
@@KennMila We're talking about a world where they added nuclear waster in sodas so it would glow. And it's actually kinda true for our world as well. Sure, we weren't brainlets but until Chernobyl people didn't really know just how dangerous nuclear energy is.
"Subsistence" farmer, one making his living crop to crop. A "Substance" farmer is someone raising a drug crop. Siltbeans for post-War coffee for instance.
Of course! They hypnotized roger and convinced him he was a synth, and then they told him was programmed to be a better person! Hypnotic rehabilitation!
@@thegreatcornholio5025 Nah, the in-universe lore for Gen-3 synths is that they're more man than machine. They're basically humans with programmable brains. It's possible he never had any inorganic components other than the data port used to program him.
Okay guys, mini plot hole:
When Kellogg shoots your wife in the original cutscene, you hear a bullet casing hit the floor. Kellogg was using a .44 Revolver. A shell shouldn’t have hit the floor since Revolvers don’t eject shells when fired. Thought it was interrsting
Nah bruh he just used a different weapon, like a axe or grenade or something.
I will never not notice this now
Originally, he was supposed to use a 10mm pistol but for some reason changed it to a .44
It was ME , DIO So fucking true!!! When games or movies actually get firearms right I have so much more respect for it
@14 eighteen gang GANG it'd be mistaking AR for Assault rifle
Still trying to understand how a lot of the settlements that have been around for so called “years” have skeletons, rubble, and no crops or water supplies until you show up
That's basically what made me stop taking FO4 worldbuilding and writing seriously. When I came across that dinner near the starting area, with the owner trying to fight off drug dealers, and the place looks like it was bombed yesterday and there's the skeleton of a guy still having his breakfast, I couldn't help but think they didn't take the worldbuilding seriously. And, you know, I'm fine with that. The worldbuilding can be cheesy and clumsy, but this isn't what we've come to expect from Fallout.
New Vegas nailed this aspect, it definitely feels like the world was nuked 200 years before not the day before
Fallout 2 handles this aspect a lot better. There are massive high-tech cities in that game, with the apocalypse being just a distant memory. Something that would be the case after such a long time.
Herald of Unicron that doesn’t explain when you wouldn’t want to clean up your settlement
I hate that too. When it came to the place being dirty and in ruins I had to make up my own lore that people before the war just didn't have the concept of cleaning stuff or its just how people evolved as pessimistic after so many years living in the shit... But some of it is just stupid! Why skeletons? its so annoying!
i played Fallout 4 for the first time this year. hearing Kellogg’s voice coming from Nick was absolutely shocking and *chilling.* i was so disappointed that it never actually went anywhere narratively.
Because it doesn't have to be Kellogg's conscience taking over Nick, it can actually pretty much be just a pre-recorded message left in the implant and forwarded to Nick, because after all, Amari used Nick as a medium, a connector between you and Kellogg. So yea, one message left in Nick's brain has to be a big thing and has to mean a plot hole right away.
@@Croftice1 that reasoning makes no sense
@@blackbettys agreed
@@Croftice1 dude, Nick has no clue what happend after it... and if it was a recording, you'd expect it to be able to be heard again, but no, its only in that one instance. And remember, Kellogg is dead... there's no way to of transfered a message unless Kelloggs brain somehow leached itself to Nick
@@matthplays-2312 Hey, I have just started a new playthrough about a week ago, and last night I was in that mission about something something Kellogg's mind, at the aftermath of it, when Nick talks to you posing as Kellogg, if you have a sarcastic response a path of dialogues are unlocked, in which Valentine says that now you have to live with the doubt if it was really Kellogg's talk, or him just fucking with you.
Edit: I can provide pictures of it via discord, if you want me to.
I always loved opening a safe that had been locked for hundreds of years only to find bottle caps, a pipe rifle, and crispy squirrel bit.
Why do you think it has been?
Do you think your the first person ever to see the safe and have a level 100 lock pick or whatever it was?
Ngl I heard something about how pipe guns were pre war or something I was probably tripping tho
@@user-nc7fg3mf2bthey probably were to an extent, used by dissidents and gangs as makeshift guns and passed onto others.. why they’re in a safe idk, maybe to use as a holdout weapon of sorts?
@31animafan Alright, what about a vault that has been clearly stated to never been opened but has pipe weapons, and caps available for looting?
And the military personnel being equipped with those too
You know who points out plot holes? A synth.
Let me put this plot hole on your map.
Gursh durn synths takin' ur jurbs!
Alright Todd calm down
Abomination
Get him boys
Nate: This is one of my favorite sidequests offered in the game. You start out hearing a child screaming from a fridge
The End
fuck yeah that's what makes it great
Idk... having him inside was a bit stupid... maybe if he was locked in there like after the war hiding from something scary I'd buy the story.
Lol 🤣
I hate this-
Fallout 1- GHOULS NEED FOOD & WATER
Fallout 4- dumb ghoul kid survives in fridge for years.
STUPID! Bethesda just sucks.
"It's probably not a retcon, and whoever was writing this probably just didn't know the actual lore"
That's a good summary of the entire game
Exactly. It's a good open world fps with a decent amount of customization and not really anything else. I like the game a whole lot but it's one of my least favorite fallout games just cause it breaks lore almost in every reference to past games or material and it's not even a RPG.
@@KeithSchwerin I don't really think that's a good explanation, as Jet didn't exist in Fallout 1 (around the year 2161) and the actual creator (Myron) explains how it's actually synthesized.
pyre78 one common statement I hear is that it's impossible to synthesize Jet without Brahmin but that bars the possibility that the Brahmin dung fumes aren't just coincidentally similar in composition and effects to the pre-war synthetic chemical known as "Jet" and Myron discovered a process to fully refine the former into the latter.
@@5bars3g36 What I'm getting at here is that if it was around pre-war then why wasn't it available in the year 2161?
Exactly this. Fallout 3 and 4 are total nonsense.
I'm so dissapointed that the game never did anything with the whole "Kellogg is in Nick's mind" thing, because the setup was honestly really cool
Yeah. It would have been great to have a thing where Nick gets a kind of Split personality going, and you can do a questline to either Purge Kelogg out of Nick's head, or put Kelogg into a new Synth body
Well, put the detective into fallout 5. And deal with it there. Maybe reveal based on the new players actions wether Kellogg killed the sole survivor or not. Or add the sole survivor into the game as well and then decide if we kill them based on how far into the synth’s quest we are. Maybe decide the ending of fallout 4 based on the ending of fallout 5. If new kid sided with the brotherhood it is likley so did the sole survivor. Etc.
I always wanted them to randomly take charge of the body and have Kellogg kind of be "on your team" to a degree.
He could've been a really interesting character had he been able to survive in some capacity
Or maybe Nick was just fucking with player if you choose the sarcastic responses he pretty much says thats what it was
I would have liked to experience more of Kellogg, even if he's talking through Nick. Maybe he and Nate could develop a sort of grudging respect, despite the murder of Nate's wife. All while Nick is a mediator. Granted, Nick isn't a required follower, and can be replaced by someone else for the rest of the story, but the opportunity was there.
It's always odd to see how angry Nate can be at Kellogg, to the point where every dialogue choice is hostile, but there's never that same amount of vitriol for the Institute in general, or Shaun.
The one that gets me is the fact that when the bombs fell, it was morning. However, there are cars at the Starlight Drive-In, but you only visit a Drive-In at night, when you can see the screen.
the starlight was shut down and the cars that where there were all abandoned due to the high price of fuel, there you go.
CAOSWOLFIII didn’t cars in fallout used nuclear energy?
@@mr.sandman8170 They need Coolant, that's what the Red Rocket sold, and it was over a hundred bucks a gallon.
@@Mr-Trox well adjusting for inflation, in 2077, that isn't that bad.
@@michaelpowers671 Yes it is, before the Great War there was 1000% spike in inflation or something like that, shit was expensive.
...also, wouldn't Billy be seven shades of insane after being curled up for centuries alone in the dark?
apparently, ghouls can somewhat hibernate. fera clearly can, but it's never explained
I assume it felt like just a little while for him
Whose to say he was referring to the war though? These explosions could have come from the minutemen battle that happened in concord some weeks ago (or months, I forget when exactly it happened)
@@TalkingTurtle97 He mentioned sirens going off though, which obviously points to it being the Great War
@@diviny1139 Not necessarily? Sirens could have been used while the minutemen where there
That Nick Valentine subplot would have added so much f*cking depth and enjoyment to the game
I mean Nick is 100% my favourite, but would have been just so awesome if he was to also be Kellogg as well somewhere inside and maybe you could actually talk to Kellogg and get his take on why he did what he did instead it is "bad guy" "kill him" "learn nothing else" and by do what he did I mean why he took the implants and whatnot, you know the shit we never learn about mainly is what I am talking about.
pavv well not to me and other people
my favorite is Deacon, 2nd Fave is Codsworth, 3rd is Cait, 4th is Dogmeat. But yeah I do like Nick as well. He's prob comes in 6th for me right after Hancock. I honestly never liked X6 and I usually dont travel with MacCready. I usually avoid the Vault Curie was in but I did get her once and she was meh. Piper is just too damn "I want to help the world" type. I almost forgot preston....yeah I dont need someone bugging me every 5 seconds for shit I dont care about so him and strong are last. I wouldnt mind strong if he just stfu once in a while but he never does.
@@cultofmalgus1310 if we are talking about best storytelling, it's Cait and maccready for me.
Piper has a cool story about the town she's from but I hate all the 1 dimensional "I'm good" attitude she has.
Literally never had a playthrough with x6-88
Dogmeat obviously has the best storytelling ability.
Strong is one of those characters that it actually hurts my ears to hear talk all the damn time.
Preston is basically male Piper but worse somehow.
But Nick valentine just could have been a crazy good character if Kellogg was mixed in with him.
Getting Kellogg out of Nick would have been quite the replacement to the eddie winter bonding quest for Nick.
Could also be fun if you can choose to keep either Nick or Kellogg, especially when Kellogg Nick could meet Dima.
How the heck did no one...in 200 years...hear that kid in the fridge?
I get the impression that the player character probably does just a bit more wandering than most people, but you're totally right. 200 years is a really long-ass time. You'd think at some point at least some wandering monster would hear him and try to break open the fridge or something to eat him lol
There's another video "updating" the plot hole, it turns out that when "the bombs fell" was actually the Minutemen's attack on the fort before the beginning of the game, that's why when the kid came back to their parents they don't seem shocked at all
@@valianthen It's not... his parents got turned into Ghouls when the bombs fell, but Billy was shocked that his parents were ghouls too. It's heavily implied by both Billy and his parents that he's been in there since the nukes 200 years ago. Quincy wasn't irradiated, no one ghoulified because of the Quincy Massacre.
Likely he was in a state of hibernation for most of that time.
Yeah about that
Even IF Billy did not need to eat, drink, or even breathe to live... Wouldn't he have gone completely insane, being trapped in such a tiny, dark space for 200 years?
Sole survivor was trapped in a tiny dark space for 200 years. His/her sense of time got completely messed up and only thought a decade or two has passed. Perhaps the same happened with billy. Being in a fridge for that long with no way to tell how long time has passed, maybe for him it only felt like a few months or years. Even thought it’s been 200.
Oof
@@aeternus2036 Sole Survivor was in a frozen time... To him/her, not a minute passed... That should be obvious.
@@aeternus2036 survivor felt like moments passed. We experience it in "real time" when we play. No idea why you think that would be remotely similar to experiencing 200 years
@Basically I'm Schlorping get locked in a small dark box then tell me about your sense of time. It's not the best logic but you overestimate how dumb it is.
Plot Hole: The Ghoul that hires you to work for the Cabots gets into Diamond City. Ghouls aren't allowed in Diamond City, right?
So how'd he get in?
I don't need sleep i need answers!
They should have put a gas mask on him
cody schreyack some ghoul hired him
Khalil Mason No, Cabot is not a ghoul.
Let's just assume he payed off a guard.
I recall at one point, I came across a ghoul that was dying of radiation poisoning and begged for radaway.
It bothered me a lot more than it should have
@@Fieliemat I did, yeah, and it was just so weird seeing a ghoul cease having the radiation poisonings.
That sounds like some Mandela effect shit right there. Unless it was Harold in FO 1/2. He's not quite a ghoul, but not human either. He's basically a shitty ent.
Maybe because he knows he's slowly turning into feral? That could be the case too since I remember in fallout NV that they are actually not immune to radiation but rather have very high resistence to it.
wheren't there a couple of similar encounters in F2?
@@kaungsetmoe4876 nop. if i remember well, a ghoul is only feral if their brains have been damaged by radiation before they transform into a ghoul. if you turn into a ghoul, you are pratically safe, as you are pratically imune to radiation now.
Ah the good old days when plot holes where a big deal. Now we just want a game that functions upon release.
Set the bar so low that people forget what normal ever was. Has been working for decades now...
Game that functions upon release? You speak in myth and tomfoolery
What is this "functions" word you speak of? Never hear of it
Functions? what's that mean? all we have here is games that can't even open without detonating your device.
@Supre Not just talking about Bethesda games, everyone is rushing to to games out now
What I want know is how does a pipe pistol end up in a safe that hasn't been opened in over 200 years.
Maybe there was a traffic of handmade weapons also before the war.
@@Lucas-yu4bu Bro don't you know? You can't use logic around Fallout 4 or people get salty
@@errolmargiela1261 go find logic in bethesda and you're better off looking for gold in your own shit
According to lore. Sanctuary Hills has been inhabitated before you arrive there after the bombs drop.
According to fallout 4 gangs in Chicago and the like made pipe weapons.
Further issues with Billy.
How did no one else hear him in a time spanning two centuries?
How does he say his legs are stuff, then immediately get up absolutely fine anyway?
How did he retain enough presence of mind to basically still be a kid, after two centuries of being locked in the dark, in a fridge, and essentially having no idea what was happening outside?
How did he retain enough presence of mind not to go freakin' insane from the solitary confinement?
@OtaDaiGan don't ghouls go in something like ibernation?
so maybe we as sole survivor waked him up?
The answer to these questions and more, is terrible writing
@@ramel684 :7
He was frozen.
@OtaDaiGan Yeah but there brains are not full decade, which could mean the can but we haven't seen it.
There are so many in Fallout 4! My biggest gripe, out of all of them, are NPC’s reactions to companions. You’re telling me, the anti-(ghoul, super mutant, synth, railroad) BOS is going to be perfectly ok with you and your companion being on their flagship?
Compared this to NV. If you had Boone with you, he would attack any member of the Legion regardless of the character’s relationship with them.
Yep.. Boone pretty much chose which faction I wasn't going to be on that playthrough XD
The only accurate reaction outside of dialogue is from Danse after he leaves the BoS.
Yeah, the closest you get is some bickering between them and it sucks when you realises there are small details with companions that no one would care of such as Codsworth talking to that chef protectron in diamond city and fully understanding him as they chat about robCo
To be fair, they tolerated Charon and Flawks....back in DC. But what do I know, I'm probably getting an answer
Excellent logic. BOS don't like ghouls therefore it doesn't make sense for them to make an exception for you and is therefore bad writing. Like certainly there are a million different reasons as to why they put up with allowing your ghoul/super mutant companion with you. FO3 did the same thing with the super mutant companion. It's almost like it doesn't matter and it would just be annoying to have to send your follower back to wherever whenever you wanted to get onto the Prydwen because you know, it's a game...
I always viewed the end of dangerous minds as kellogg giving the sole survivor one final parting message before fading away for good, but it would've been cool to essentially have kellogg as a companion inside nick's head
Maybe if you could choose between saving Nick, or letting Kellogg overwrite his body, and depending on who is in the body, they can be your companion. I would kinda like that
@@CPLsmilez- I like the idea of Kellogg just being in there along for the ride. Like Nicky had an inner voice that’s Kellogg’s.
@@gujwdhufjijjpo9740 "Eventually I should just fade into your subconscious" - Kellog, right after he had already faded away.
I always hated the major Kellogg plot holes, he wasn't just unused for the end of Dangerous minds, the whole writing surrounding him was trash. He kidnapped Shaun 60+ years ago but somehow doesn't know or even realize shaun is "the old man" as he calls him, which admittedly he wouldn't necessarily be privy to that kind of info but for some reason thinks he's like 10. I get that years/time keeping might not be that well recorded after an apocalypse but he's gotta know the difference between 10 and 60 years. What they freeze him for 50 after he got shaun for them?
@@marikasdaughter6263 Considering that Kellogg is just an asset to them, and that the institute is... well... the institute, I find it (while rather unsatisfying of an explanation) completely plausible that they simply freeze Kellogg when he's not in use. Possibly even wipe his memories of these freezings so that he harbors no ill intent towards them. This could also explain why he believes Shaun is still 10, as he would be frozen for about 50 years, and then unfrozen once the institute caught wind that you were wandering around, and his memory of that time would be wiped, so he'd have no idea that the time passed. The institute would probably then be using Kellogg as bait for you so they could kill your or lure you to them. It also makes a lot more sense for the institute for him to be guarded by an army of synths if when he's on is a mission to lure you there for termination rather than him just keeping his synths with him wherever he goes. Also, since I know someone might bring it up, yes, I do believe that the fortress we find him in is a place of residence due to the terminal, his place of residence when he's NOT frozen, to clear up any confusion he might have about not having a home.
I was more curious about why the Brotherhood just went and blew up the Institute. Every Fallout game tells me that the Brotherhood's agenda is collection of technology. What's the Institute if not the holy grail of such technology? Cybernetics, bio research, weaponry, teleportation?...
overmind06 look at what happened to Maxson. He worshipped Sarah and became... unforgiving.
Exactly. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's dictated in their codex which is the equivalent to the Bible. But then again, since Lyon's leadership, the brotherhood has changed. Still, it's highly out of character to blow the entirety of the institute complex, even if they despise the place as a synth factory. Sounds more like something the Legion would do, loathing technology, blowing up an underground complex full of technologies.
@@JerichoJulius0 Maxon took the brotherhood on a far more zealous path than Lyons- I like this, it shows a realistic evolution of a group over time
@@maddermax3162 It shows bad writing lmao. I think Bethesda just didn't want to put in the work to make more than 2 endings to their awful Fallout clone.
@@Foxingg It makes sense for the brotherhood to develop down the path of zealous tech extermination though, given that a more radical leader has been placed in charge
dude, the ghoul was in a fridge. plenty of food. smh
I don't think that a fridge full of food would feed someone for 200 YEARS.
@@idunno4827 I think this is a whoosh moment? ...I...think...
@@idunno4827 hmmmmm
John Stonik stop you fuckhead it’s annoying now it’s dead so stop u r/cringe
@@middlesack853 r/shutthefuckup
With Jet, it’s not just listed once as being prewar in Fallout 4.
It’s also listed on the drug dealers terminal in Sanctuary.
If you do certain dialogue's in Fallout 2. You find out that Jet Addiction is what got one woman kicked out of the city growing up around Vault 8 i believe it is. Can't remember her name right now, just remember she's a woman you can end up sleeping with. And that event the way she talks about it was a few decades in her past. Before the boy genius supposedly came up with it. Which directly contradicts the supposed creation of Jet even within it's own game. So it's not really as much of a plot hole as it's treated as. This is even in the Wiki and a few other sources. Though it tends to be heavily ignored by most desperate to make this a plothole and thus a huge mark against the game and Bethesda.
@@Quandry1 isn't there a speech check were he admits that he stole the recipe for it
@@inspectorjavert9868 I was told that with high science you can get him to admit the idea wasn't his and he'll get mad at you but I can't verify it. I don't have access to the game any longer and it's been a while since I played it in depth. I just know he is called out for it.
There is an easy retcon to whole Jet/Myron situation:
Myron recreated Jet, not created it from scratch. As he himself describes it he was looking to create that kind of drug and only incidentally found it's brahmin dung that's the main ingredient.
@@PobortzaPl Except... All of that is completely un-needed if the game myron comes from. And even potentially Myron himself potentially contradicts the narrative anyway. Which it does to some fair extent. Many people have not played the game and they go off of things like the Fallout Bible (which is non-cannon and had horrendous continuity issues to begin with) Or they go off of things that people have told them or occasionally the wiki. Which has been getting edited lately to actually remove that factual details in the game surrounding the issue of Myron and Jet by some of these same people.
When it comes to Billy I usually just chalk it up to some weird hibernation ability. There are more then a few feral ghouls that have just sat around in isolated places and never starved to death. Maybe in the absence of any stimulus ghouls can just shut down.
The fact that Billy is still sane after 200 years in a box also makes me think that he was asleep most of that time.
Thats what id think, like the "sleepers" you run into sometimes (sometimes nearly trip over them!)
Its totally possible, there are animals that are like this. Like desert frogs that can go into a deep dormant state for years and only wake up when it rains
@@booqueefious2230 simple answer: it's a fridge. It had food in it. Even it the food spoked, he's a ghoul so he could probably eat it just fine.
I think the radiation just mutated people differently like how people are more susceptible to different diseases and stuff. That’s why some can age and can starve and some don’t.
Don't ghouls not need to eat?
I always found it weird that nobody settled Sanctuary before you came out of the vault, like in comparison to other places, Sanctuary is in pretty good condition, and there's also the mysterious workbenches that end up there which would lead you to believe that someone attempted to settle there at one point. But when you get there, aside of, Codsworth its completely abandoned.
Sanctuary and the house used as a player base makes me feel like Sanctuary was used for a while by merchants/caravans as a temporary settlement. We also should consider that Sanctuary is really far away from Diamond City, that is the ''center'' of the Commonwealth.
Or how half the settlements look like they just got there and nobody bothered picking up the trash or removing the skeletons or boarding up windows or getting fresh food and water going or doing anything remotely productive in general. Bethesda makes good games but this game is supposed to be 200+ years after the bombs, not 2 years before anyone has had the chance to do anything productive
Actually i am pretty sure Codsworth killed all of the intruders.
People definitely tried to. In some homes there are barricades as if they used it as a defensive hold.
@@robvinsky I would legitimately say this tends to be an issue with the franchise in general. Even New Vegas which I do love as a game in many locations doesn't look like it has been occupied by an industrial society for 8 years, much less under a technocrat like Mr. House. It is just basic stuff like moving the broken cars from the road and maybe paving up some of the highways with the concrete pouring equipment we know the NCR has which would give it a feeling of being more inhabited.
This really just seems to be more of an issue with the franchise itself really wanting to maintain a certain look even when logically things should be cleaned up a bit more.
Seriously Bethesda just Google your own lore, it's not that hard
That would take too much effort and ... You know, that awful four letter word. Work. Besides, why do that when you can just make everything a cashgrab?! Better yet, allow a third party to make a better version but pretend it doesn't exsist.
@@johnbyrd7400 especially when said third party is made from people that worked on the original game.
I woulda just played the originals myself to find out what they were like
The best way to learn about a game is to experience it by playing
They’ll probably find some fan work and say this IS CANON
Joe Biden got put incharge of writing.
Bethesda learned from their mistakes and fixed this problem entirely in the next Fallout installment.
King_Derpy 101 outstanding move
Bruh, April Fool's Day is the first day of April, not the last.
I dont Think thats How it worked out
TES:6 Fallout 5
@@greendude0420 We know how much you all have been looking forward to the next Elder Scrolls. And we know you have been expecting another Fallout. So we at Bethesda are proud to present: The Elder Scrolls VI: Fallout V!
1:40 I know there’s no canon lore to allow this theory, but my theory is that Jet was a very premature chem on the east coast. Myron didn’t actually create jet, he created a way to make jet post war. So Myron studied pre war jet and found a way to make it in a post war fashion. This is how I rationalize it since the non Bethesda games take place on the west coast and Bethesda games take place on the east coast.
That's not a theory, it's more or less facts, Myron didn't create jet. There's a voice line in F2 where you can expose him for this. He admits he didn't make it but not to tell anyone, he only made a way to make it faster
@@MrMadre that’s crazy makes sense why people don’t know about it, any clips on TH-cam anywhere?
@@MrMadre i also remember this, i dont understand when ‘fallout fans’ say Myron created it -_-
Jet is really just the fallout universe's name for methamphetamine. Like how Fallout 3 had to change Morphine to Med-X most of the original names were made up to avoid censorship problems since there's some inherent ickyness in making a real-life drug essentially a 'powerup'. But in some dialogue with the pharmacist in New Reno you learn that jet addiction is just good ol' fashioned meth addiction.
@@havcola6983 damn imagine a radioactive cow so screwed up it farts basically meth.
Obviously billy just woke up from being on ice like we did. Your telling me that fridge wasn’t working?
Sure sucks that xxtentacion won't be waking up anytime soon
j fogg gang-banging ghetto gangster
@@jaked8650 😂 Wut
@@dfgfdgdfgfdg2902 bruh
Nah... of course it just works!
Here is a plot hole: the X-01 power armor was made by the enclave but you can find it (if on a high enough level) near crashed vertibirds with skeletons in US army uniforms indicating that they where there before the war
Editing to say there is literally a loading screen which says X-01 was post war
Several X-01s (some are even complete) are also in Nuka World, there is even a "Quantum" version, which says it was available before the war
@@davidewhite69 That's actually not a plot hole at all, the x-01 was mass produced by the enclave but there were limited prototypes already in development. There is one guaranteed one protected by a sentry bot atop some building I forget it's name, and the nuka cola quantum one is probably some corporate deal like "we see how quantum works in fusion cores we get to unveil the new power armor to the public". As for just finding them in the wastes In level lists that's just game mechanics not lore breaking. If we took every game mechanic as lore legendary effects would have a lot of explaining to do
@@Vaultyboi22 you sir are a lore lover and are awesome
@@Tired-Merc ehh I just like lore, I know quite a bit about destiny lore too
@@Vaultyboi22 that just makes you more awesome
Kellogg in Nicks head Just sparked an Idea for a Quest in my head:
Nick Acts more and more Like Kellogg while you travel with him and do detective Work. At some Point He Attacks you and Kellogg tries to Take over nicks Body. Nick then tries to get Kellogg Out of His psyche/Data/whatever, But cant get it done. He tells you, you have to kill him and Kellogg with him. But maybe the Institute or the railroad can Help. You then enter Nicks subconscious memory, where Kellogg has Hidden away, because He noticed Nick trying to get him Out. And then you find yourself in the memories of the REAL Nick Valentine. The human. Synth-nicks detective persona and human-Nicks cop Life have merged a little, you enter Nicks office and then you do some noir-film-esque detective Work to track down kellogg, the new Strange mercenary in town, kill him and restore Nicks Psyche.
If anyone Here is good with mods or knows someone who is, feel Free to steal the Idea.
Are you a part of the Bethesda team this is this the best game writing I've heard in years
@@theallknowinggary8338 hehe thank you But im Just a hobby writer who knows a little about storytelling and such.
@@theallknowinggary8338 the fact that it is well written is evidence that they arent bethesda
@@SorchaSublime Far Harbor? It was well written.
@@ShadowSonic2 eeeh, it had well written components but could have been a lot better in totality
The Libery Prime bit could simply be a pre-prepared publicity blurb ready to be used after the expected victory that was triggered by either a glitch or the passage of time.
All plotholes can be explained away with Head-canon.
The problem is that the game doesn't include any such explanation.
You know it's sloppy when Bethesda can't even keep its own lore straight, much less what came before.
@@LadyDoomsinger Thing is it wasn't just Power Armor, Prime was supposed to go to Anchorage until they reached the deadline that forced the US Government to pull out a shit ton of protoypes like vertibrids, and gauss rifles to replace Prime. Mr. House even had a portrait of part of Prime. Prime would have been a massive PR boost stunt to prove how unstoppable the US government was.
Plot hole: Kellogg is a human being not a box of cereal. I have been lied too
Either Bethesda doesn't understand cereal, or we should all stop eating Kellog.
Captin Crunch!
@@Sovereighn2280 Kellogg was a terrible person. Screw the guy and boycott all his cereal.
Kellogg was a cereals, the quest explaining this got cut.
@@informitas0117 'u ' Grammar structure exists for a reason.
I mean sentence structure.
Fallout plot holes in a nutshell: Todd Howard uses the Fallout Bible as toilet paper
...it's too thin and Todd screams in the bathroom
I could genuinely believe that
@@comettamer Especially right now.
@@ManiacClown Indeed. 76 is a flaming garbage dump and only Todd Howard can seem to revel in it
@@comettamer Honestly, I haven't even tried 76. I was making a COVID-19 panic buying joke.
The biggest plot hole. Shawn's plan is don't send a synth to meet you at 101 exit but expected you to:
1-kill an "unkillable" courser.
2- find railroad.
3-go to hell on earth Glowing sea and find virgil (that can be anywhere in the commonwealth by now).
4- build a teleporter out of junk.
5-believe him to be your shawn with zero evidence.
He didn't release you to come find him
He says that was a possibility but he didn't know.
He released you just to see how you acted. What kind of person you were. I'm sure he would have teleported out eventually to meet you, but you beat him to the punch.
In essence he didn't plan for you to do all this.
He just expected you to live, that's what he wanted to see. That was his plan.
101? i really hope you mean 111. 101 is in the capital wasteland. otherwise shaun's plan is even stupider.
@@NewPaulActs17 my bad. Got the vaults mixed up. 111 yes.
@@levitobias8031 5-how the hell do i know he is my shawn? All the info he has he could have read Piper's paper since you stupidly tell her EVERYTHING.
@@levitobias8031 Actually he pretty much says outright he didn't expect you to live.
The liberty prime thing could be explained by the line being programmed BEFORE Alaska was successfully defended, and was programmed to automatically be added to the orientation after a certain date, and then never edited to the correct events before the bombs fell, allowing the preprogrammed line to come to be
Being inaccurate information makes way more sense.
It's also completely possible, being a sleezy corporation, they left it in despite being completely false to make themselves appear better than they really are.
Am I the only one who thinks that what was meant by that line was Liberty Prime's design lead to modern power armor like what was used to defend Alaska?
Me creating crackpot theories to excuse the lazy writing
@@bigguy6356me excusing very light theories as “crackpot” to make myself feel better about the circlejerk i’m engaging in
"it's not a plot-hole if you don't care about the lore. like me." ~Todd H., Lower Macungie Township, Pennsylvania.
No, he didn't say that. Did he? You're joking...
at least credit the right guy, todd just lies, pete hines is the head writer that literally doesnt care about the lore in fallout games
@@KaptainRaptor hodd toward is the top guy. the....overseer.
@@KaptainRaptor you literally can't be more wrong
I think it is time Fallout needs to be taken away from Bethedesa and make Fallout 4 and Fallout 76 non canon
I looked at the title and thought to myself... "Only five?"
this video wouldn't even fit if we talked about all the plot holes in Fallout 4.
@@Maddiedoggie exactly, Fallout 4 lore is like Dragon Age 2: a swiss cheese at his best.
At least Dragon Age 2 could refuge on an unreliable narrator, but fallout 4 can't
I mean he did say 'Top five'
With the kellog thing on nick, there could be a passive skill, like "Permanently increase Nick's damage and accuracy by 40%, but has a little chance to shoot you randomly"
You know how bad that would suck on Survival? You'd be dead so fast.
Too creative for Bethesenda post Morrowind.
*Gives nick a MIRV fat man*
@@cumguzzler8537 *MIRV BIG BOY*
@@apossiblyhereticalalphaleg3595 "Say goodbye to your kneecaps, chucklehead"
I think the Kellogg stuff was just his last goodbye. We got to see his whole life against his will and he still got to have the last laugh by momentarily taking over nick and freaking out the sole survivor.
Synths replace Humans by killing them. Roger killed the Synth that was send to take his place. Then he become sober because he knows, if the Institute figure out that their Synths was destroyed they will send another one. And another one. Until he is replaced. Roger is a Human, acting like a Synth working for the Institute to the purpose of his survival. At the core. He replaced the Synth that should replace him.
Plothole fixed.
Askavi possible that doesn’t solve the anger problem.
I just saw the Hulk in Avengers: Endgame talking about Science stuff and wearing glasses... talking about anger resolving plot holes... i just dont care anymore ...
@@LazyKingAusthat easy fear
he knows that if get angry they will notice that is why he trying to act calm fear is motivating this man to not lose control and also being sober can also resolve his anger issue
your dumb the institute can tell if a synth has 'lost it's vitals'.
@@gabebachke12 what if the scientist took pity on the man? None of this is probably even a thought in the guy who wrote it but I think something like this could be a cool little twist
Ghouls need water too, there's a whole subplot in Fallout 1 about it. Keely in New Vegas talks about how she had to collect food / water while trapped in Vault 22
Same with that one ghoul in the basement of Repcon Test Site
I'd probably rationalise why some ghouls need to eat and drink like a normal person, some needing to drink and eat occasionally and some not needing to eat and drink pretty much at all by theorising that there's different severities of ghoulification and the amount of activity that they do. Billy was stuck in a fridge doing nothing so could've been sustained by the small amount of radiation not shown up as rads
Maybe they feel hunger and thirst even though they don’t need it.
Thing is it was also implied by the ghoul who pretended to be a mummy in one of the first two that ghouls can enter essentially a hibernation state.
@@gujwdhufjijjpo9740 Man they really felt that thirst when they died of dehydration.
I love how you used the phrase 'grew out of it' to describe a child becoming an adult. Yeah, I used to be a kid, but I grew out of that. It was just a phase.
Senis Pucker it was
It’s not just a phase _mom_
I mean... technically, yes. Still a weird way to phrase it though.
Sooo many people DON'T grow out of it tho.
Your never grow out of it if your physically stunted from malnutrition
Plot hole: when you go into Kelloggs memory you can hear diamond city radio talking about piper. This all happened 60 something years ago so unless he was talking premature piper idk how that’s posssible
Nah if you are talking about kellogg being sent to find virgil that was recent like a while ago as x6-88 is in that memory plus Amari says that is recent
Kellogg's memories are kind of a narrative mess, really; Bethesda was so set on that major plot twist that Shaun was actually old and now head of the Institute that they forced a bunch of plot elements that in hindsight make little sense. As far as I can tell, Kellogg's memories conveniently have a 60-year gap between the memory of him taking Shaun from the Vault and him living with "Synth Shaun" in Diamond City.
The weirdest part about Kellogg isn't even that he hasn't aged at all in over 60 years - that can be explained by cybernetic sci-fi techno-babble. But *why* hasn't he changed his hair *or* his clothes in over 60 years?!
@@LadyDoomsinger He's bald.
Why doesn't anyone in 90% of the video games out there ever change their clothes?
Maybe he has an outfit and a look he likes.
@@edenarchive4150 For 60+ years? I know adjusting to change is hard for some people, but that's a bit long to wear the same pants.
@@LadyDoomsinger That would have been a nice touch to make it more believable, seing these small changes throughout time. Truth is that Fallout 4 was shat out without much care given to it.
Bethesda: So Jet is a substance used in Vault 95 testing.
Fallout Fanbase: But Jet wasn't a Pre-War drug-
Bethesda: *WHAT I SAY GOES!*
Never thought of this as a problem... my thoughts has always been that the boy wonder found a stash of jet and made more... either through reverse engineering or finding a recipe close to the stash.... I'm just surprised that people see this as a major problem since it's not something new... many things in our world get "discovered" or "invented" even though it already existed but was forgotten.... which is highly possible in a world that got nuked and lost most records... but that's just me
And this is how you know if people only ever learn about drugs from TV or games. Theres a ton of different compounds that give the "same" effect as LSD or extasy, theyre all called the same thing as the original but is new stuff. Jet is probably no different, if it is indeed just brahmin gas then people would have already found it before the war. I mean its not like people get high on lighter fluids or something...
@@Mr3ppozz the reason the invention of jet is often brought up is because is an easy example that requires no in depth knowledge to fully understand, the problem being exemplified being bethesda's complete lack of regard for even the pretense of continuity in any of their games.
@@gmh3 My understanding was that Jet is a vaporized form of methamphetamine (understandable since one of the ingredients in FO4 is Fertilizer).
Conversely, MedX is Morphine and Psycho is PCP given then in-game effects.
@@harlandmountain7998 Going by that route, a possible explanation is that Myron found a new way to synthesize it?
I think it's even funnier when Bethesda cant get their own recent lore right.
Ramko Zhuban like, f1 and f2 is one thing. but f3?? seriously? you guys MADE that game!!
They don't care about Fallout, it's not their franchise, they just bought it to squeeze money out of it.
@@truestory2990
Bugthesda: Can't have plot holes in Fallout 76 if there is no plot
@@ivancerecer5758 Fallout Community: We see differently
Ivan Cerecer that’s an awesome original joke you made there :)
Explanation for every plothole:
*It just works*
Exactly like king crimson
Somewhere Todd Howard is smiling because you said that
@silverfoxeater 1. poop is poop. people literally still get high on cow poop in our own world. its a thing, The difference isn't great enough that the main component of poop fumes wouldn't still have its main effects. In their world they could have just code worded the cow dung as jet, which just became a more advanced form when the bombs fell. As I said it doesn't really conflict with anything because Caravanners could have literally been inspired to make jet because they were aware that poop fumes were a thing.
2. I don't find it hard to believe, plenty of stupid things slip past the smartest people on the planet in our every day lives. Some things that happen in our daily lives are just a happenstance of freak stupidity. like a guy sending Google random bills through the mail and the company actually paying them and him getting away with millions of dollars until he's eventually caught. Just because a guy got away with it for years doesn't mean that the institute would be fooled forever.
3. there is a reason for them to lie, you assume that the people there would know about it, this wouldn't necessarily be the case as I said the people working there could have been fresh recruits that were forced under non-disclosure agreements being brainwashed by corporate history, causing an elevated sense of pride. Its again not like our current companies don't do in a way the same things for stupid reasons.
At least we agree on the last ones.
@@chaosdirge4906 1) Fallout 2 explains it's not their poop. It's the growth on top of it which acts as a stimulant. Both the growth (Fungi) and the poop from Brahmins didn't exist pre-war. So please stfu about things you don't understand in the fallout lore Bethesda fan boy.
@@chaosdirge4906 3) A company would not tell you top secret information before you were hired. You'd have to sign that NDA beforehand. An entry-level employee wouldn't be allowed top secret information either. So yeah, no.
With Roger Warwick, I wonder if maybe the Institute could convince someone they were in fact a Synth. Fabricating all sorts of "evidence" and giving them a mission of an experiment when in fact they were the experiment.
That sounds more like something DiMA would do. That jerk is obsessed with convincing people they're synths.
Like brainwashing?
My favorite plot hole is how Shaun is not deaf considering he was less than a year old when a .44 magnum went off less than a foot away from him, the sound of which could be heard through your cryo pod
In a fuckin vault without ear protection too, kellog better have been wearing some ears or he'd be deaf aswell
He could be deaf - would explain why he basically ignores everything the player says to him, and responds the same no matter what dialogue option you choose.
But then, if that was the case, that would imply that 80 - 99% of the Commonwealth's population is deaf.
I mean everyone is literally cannibals if you’ve ever eaten “iguana bits” Iguana Bob strikes from beyond the grave.
There is also the guy making potted meat with ghoul meat mixed in
Darryl Ferguson bro that’s how you go from gruel to ghouuulllll
_This is why i don't eat random post-war foodstuffs_
Spartan War118 if you want something fun to think about. In real life it’s like something around 8% of the mass in canned meats and minced meats like hamburgers and chicken nuggets is human DNA.
So everyone in real life has committed cannibalism.
@@KEB3RTXELA Is this human DNA in chicken nuggets like some absurd urban legend meme or what? Haven't heard that one before
That moment with Nick Valentine made me stop bringing him with me on story missions cause I was worried he'd go kelllog on me
He should have, it would have made for a good story dynamic as he slowly lost his mind
Didn’t Nick say he was kidding afterwards though? Pretty sure there is no Kellogg in his head.
Gage Morris no, after he does the Kellogg thing, he is disordered and doesn’t remember that previous moment. I don’t believe he was kidding
nop, he doesnt say it. Actually, he doesnt even remember that he said something like that. so yeah, in that moment, kellog took over nick, and it would be so much fun having this duality, where kellog could took over him anytime and then a subplot develops. but, bethesda going to be bethesda!
When you bring it up he says Dr Amari warned them about lingering neuro something or another but he'll be alright. So basically he has an impression of Kellogg that will pass.
I always thought jet was just a normal inhaler based on one time I took all of my inhaler in one night and felt my heart beating and it felt like time was slow
Bethesda’s plot almost clips as much as their models.
Daaaaamn that's one helluva roast if i ever heard one, hahaha
...I see Obsidian Studio did more model clipping than Bethesda did :|
Just Noob That’s what happens when you have a short dev cycle
@@__Xeese not an excuse when more then half the work in the cycle is already done
@@hunterblue7816 exactly, they used bethesda's assets 😂
How much you wanna bet the jet plot hole was caused because they hired someone who never played the original fallout games
Do people who write these games actually play them? I wouldnt play video games if my job was video games.
@@spicybeantofu If you dont play video games, you should not work on video games.
Its like saying - "Do people who write screenplay watch movies? I wouldn't watch movies if my job was movies." Well, you would be shit at your job then. If you are not a fan of the medium, dont work for the medium, go find a job in whatever the fuck you enjoy.
@@liboud22 So in your way of thinking, all airplane mechanics need to be pilots aswell? Sometimes distance is a good thing when writing, less chance to be sucked in to old tropes.
@@Tatwinus you're taking things too literally and too far. His logic only implies that you should work on something you are passionate about. Your example with the plane could be said that the machanic really has a passion for airplanes in its every form, be it in the air or on the ground. You don't have to be overly passionate, can just be a hobby too you know.
@@Tatwinus No, they dont need to know how to fly the plane, but they absolutely need to understand how the fuck an aircraft works. You dont go - "Well I wouldn't learn about aircrafts, if my job is to fix aircrafts."
That is the essential, knowing the basics of whatever the fuck you want to do. A mechanic needs to learn everything about the machine. A lawyer needs to learn all the laws of the land. A movie maker needs to learn everything about movies. And a video game creator needs to learn everything about video games.
Because if you don't, you are shit at your job.
I randomly killed Roger Warwick during a “what if” session before knowing any of this and he dropped a synth component when killed, that’s how I found out he was a synth, they must have patched it lol
Synth components are scripted to be added to a flagged NPCs inventory upon death. When he losses his essential status and gets updated it removes his flagging for some reason so he dosent drop it. It’s a weird glitch
@@scorchercast8366 what you are saying makes sense but I wonder how I can pickpocket someone and see a synth component in their inventory? Does it just have them with it or should it only be when they die?
@@alanluscombe8a553 given synth components are located in the core of a synths brain if they have one you can pick pocket if dosent mean there synth. It just means they some how got there hands on a synth component and are carrying it around
If there actually a synth it should only spawn in there inventory on death as synth components are undetectable except upon a post mortem autopsy
@@scorchercast8366 aaahhhh I see, thanks for explaining I was confused when I pickpocket someone and they have the component
@@alanluscombe8a553 "Lemme just uh, here we are!"
*synth dies*
I like to think that Molly had an in-built timer that had the date of the "expected" declassification of the Liberty Prime project that once it was over, Cambridge Polymer could talk about it. But since the bombs fell, no one could reprogram her to not say the speech, so enough time passed that her programming says "Oh! I can talk about this now."
That would suggest Molly is deviating from her programming.
Well-maintained robots in the fallout universe stick closely to their programming (Curie needed clearance to open a unlocked door from anyone claiming to be from Vault TEC, the general atomic galleria staff continue to operate the display and follow outdated protocols).
Robots that aren't well maintained deviate from their programming (I.E Codsworth having emotions, that Assaultron who opened a shop, whatever Deezer is doing) and usually can elaborate on their programming.
Liberty Prime wasn't that secret - there's a picture of Mr House standing in front of it in the lobby of Camp Golf.
there was also a newspaper that stated that the government had been working on a superweapon to liberate Alaska
Let's not forget the Anti-Communist propaganda posters with Liberty Prime portrayed in the background (There's also another one with a Chinese Robot, so not to confuse them.)
I was at camp golf today the old guy killed himself
@@jollystyr get his ranger sequoia
@@NewPaulActs17 i did and dropped so assholes with it too
Mr House, F:NV: "Cats are extinct." F4: *has cats*
Counter point: Robert House made an assumption, because there are no cats to be found in the Mojave and New California. Especially because he asserts it as a fact, but does not provide evidence. Cats may well have managed to survive in some places and not others. Since it's really damn hard to wipe out a species that ubiquitous. Doubly so when you realize cats are an invasive species in most locales. So House? Yeah he ain't as smart as he'd like everyone to believe. Especially not with how easily you can disable his security, shut down his robots, and go kill him. Especially when better security features exist in places he had build and that he approved the designs of.
Natsume-Hime house isn’t stupid, he’s just a gambler by nature, and in the case of the main plot, his hand just isn’t as stacked as he thinks.
James Alexander but he maybe only had access to Mojave volts
@@Deamons64 hes disconnected from his network, he doesnt have any contact with the rest of Nevada let alone the east coast
There was a cat in 3 and a few in 2
after nick valentine says this, you can choose the “sarcastic” dialogue which will lead nick into saying that he was just joking.
"Should've put you down when I had the chance"
"What did you say"
"Lol JK. Just a prank lolol"
That just him joking around, he did t say that.
@@Lance-The-BoS-Lancer He had Kellog's Voice Now!! He gonna Be Happy to use that again
No he doesn't, he just says "What are you talking about?"
@@Communist-Doge bro i left this comment like right after playing the game and hearing that dialogue he does say that
About Jet: This plothole was fixed lateron by a change in the lore. Jet was a pre-war medication for cows to make them produce more milk and prevent them from getting sick. It lead to minor mutations ans After the war, brahmins already produced the stuff in their organs, so that their 'leftovers' contained traces of it.
After the war, the original way to make it was lost, so not many people knew the drug any more. And the guy in fallout 2 just found a new way to make it by purifying bramin dung.
Doesn't Amari mention Nick might have some residual influence from Kellogg before Kellogg speaks through him? I always assumed it was just a fading trace of him, not a complete presence.
or nick showing a more joking side
A lot of memory-mimey mind things.
You're completely right. All it is, is a fading brainwave.
I'm gonna prove my nerdiness here and compare it to the suits the scout team wear in the Vashta Nerada episodes of Dr.Who. The suits they wear are nurally connected and when someone dies or is unconscious the suit has a neral impression of the person's brain so the suit thinks it's the person until the signal fades and the brainwave dies.
there is also the possibility for this to be a pre-recorded line with Nick just acting as "speaker". Either way a computerchip doesn't die, so it is possible for the chip to retain some of Kellogg's "programming".
Among the 5 this is definitly no plot hole, it's at best the rest of cut content.
@@orztaku but it's such a cool concept that doesn't go anywhere. It's like having a cannon on a play and not using it.
If I remember correctly that kid that made jet could be pressured into admitting he didn't make it
just another anime profile pic I’m pretty sure it’s canon that Myron made Jet after the war
@@theonethingwealladore it's been a while since I played fallout 2 and I'm not that concerned with "who made what" lore so you might be right
And then he got killed by a jet addict
Fo2 jet is jenkem fo4 jet is amphetamine the drug names were changed from their real life counterparts ie: medx/morphine because of clarification laws in Australia and a couple of other countries
With a high enough science skill you could convince him that all he did was create an apsirated amphetamine and combined it with fumes, rather than mastermind the most perfect drug from a pusher’s perspective from scratch (I believe there was a cut quest where you could develop and release a cure for jet addiction in FO2) but it was more about getting him to admit that his genius was actually just developing and building on stuff that already existed, than getting him to admit he didn’t create jet.
Mind you, 1997/98 was a fair time ago, so I may have misremembered it, but Myron gets really shitty with you when you point out that “he ain’t all that”, and that anyone with access to some of the same information could probably have come up with Jet. But ultimately it was about making Jet extra-addictive, I think. I think that the “jet didn’t exist prior to the war” is a combination of an unreliable narrator bogging themselves up to look like a criminal genius, and a Mandela effect.
Happy to be proven wrong, but that’s my memory/theory.
Plot hole: So you're telling me all this loot, this ammo, these powerful weapons and power armor, haven't been taken by someone else?
I mean granted alot of people just straight up died from the bombs, not everyone had enough money for test-subject-in-a-vault deluxe positions or really an actually viable way to survive the initial bomb drop
So most people are probably dead, but it is true that there are times when there's just too much good stuff lying out in the open
@@spartanwar1185 If I can come out of the vault and learn to pick any lock and hack any terminal, other people can too. It just makes no sense.
All the other games you had to be taught things like operating power armour and you were a descendant or native of the land. In this game you are pre-war with Nate potentially already having some military training to the effect. So many of the suits you find. Which are in hard to reach places and very rusty. Are just wrecks to most people. Getting one working is daunting for the average explorer or scavenger. And the power cores to keep them running also hard to find. So folk that scrape together armour from baseball uniforms and use guns made from a copper conduit and some wood probably are not getting to the places to actually put a suit together.
Yeah... but if that is the reasoning every single open world game should have no loot left to loot after a while..
It's just a gameplay aspect. Without it the game wouldn't exist.
So yes... It's not realistic, but it is a game.
Or that 200 year old Salisbury steak is still.....edible.....
Also,I'm pretty sure even asprin has a shelf life,so all those un biodegradable bags of rad away & other prewar chems would be hazardous at best.
Ever seen soda seperate water from the syrup? Yeah,pretty sure that plastic bottle of pop I seen do that was less then 200 years old
It woulda been dope if they made kellogg a permanent thing in Nick's head where they would switch back and forth between personalities depending on the situation, it would work if they made kellogg want to work for you and Nick because you took him out.
I thought that the Kellogg line from Nick was either, a) Kellogg using the last of the power in his chip to taunt the player and give them paranoia, or b) Nick playing a prank
Playing that kind of prank is not like Nick. Matter of fact he doesn't seem to ever like it when you are sarcastic to him or others. Plus of all the jokes or pranks he could do that would be the last choice since it hits pretty deep at an emotional subject. I do like your option A it gets my vote.
To me, it seems like Kellogg left the recording there just in case the player found him, killed him, and accessed his memories. Like an "if I'm this, it means I'm dead" kind of message to his enemy, which is the player. It also has the same sound effect that plays when holotapes play.
@@dweller132 it's still a cool concept (nick may be kellogg AT ANY TIME) that goes nowhere. That's the biggest problem. It's like putting a shotgun on a play (chekov's gun) and not using it.
@@dweller132 Pretty muchy what I thought too.
IIRC some dev said that they were planning on expanding on it in a DLC and then just..... forgot.
I feel like a lot of things in fallout 4 were “fuck it, get rid of that half and we’ll just release it this year”
Game development in a nutshell
Bethesda Development cycle in a nutshell.... Just like they've done with Oblivion, Skyrim, Fallout 3, Fallout 4....
I agree with this a lot, there’s at least two places I’ve found where it seems more was going on. Fort strong has a secret room with a fat man which would make sense of course since it was LITERALLY INVENTED THERE. But that room was cut. I feel like it should’ve also had a cool unique T-51 set since it was also the place where they were working on it. The generic power armour just isn’t good enough. The other place is Boston public library, there was a cut quest there about the preservation of knowledge. You find the guy who asks you to finish their work on the terminal entry but then... nothing. I’m rambling but I’m on another new play through again and these things just bug me lol
@@LazyY91 You're acting like Fallout 4 isn't the highest rated and most financially successful Fallout game to date.
It's easy to verify on google.
You don't like Bethesda. Fine. But don't act like every other game and company is even remotely perfect.
At least attempt to hide your bias and ignorant stupidity.
The sign outside the combat zone that says something like "NO FIGHTING OUTSIDE THE PIT" but the raiders immediately shoot you when you arrive. Or the tied up prisoners in the combat zone that you can't free.
Epice Nate: "Kellog is half robo-person."
You mean a cyborg.
Epic
We dont use the C word here
@MR FREEZE-98 Cyborgs are half human, half robot. Androids are robots that have a human appearance
Duty robocop
I mean dirty
One of the problems wit "Plot Holes" involve the assumption that the knowledge we have available to us is universally known. When it comes to the Ghouls, they are mysterious and some people, even the Ghouls themselves might not know all about their physiology. A ghoul may have simply retained the habit of eating and never found out he didn't need too. Or people might not know they don't need to eat and insist on trying to feed the non feral ones.
I think the Nick Valentine thing could be considered a "hangover" effect where Nick hadn't quite flushed the last vestiges of Kellogg's personality and it just took a moment longer.
It's kind of odd that they essentially alluded to maybe this becoming a bigger issue down the line, and even implying the story wasn't over in regards to Kellogg. But then... it was just gone we never saw anything related to that again, was very disappointed about that. Nick Valentine's personal quest too was ended very abruptly for me, I just hate how at every turn in FO4 they continuously shot themselves in the foot when they got close to an even remotely interesting story line besides 'duhhhh my soooooon'.
@@PoptartParasol Literally gave no fucks about the son. We saw it for like two seconds and grew NO attachment to him. Had we spent even an hour or half an hour doing quests that lead up to the birth of the child etc to form a connection I might have cared more. The main quest was literally the last thing I did haha
thats what i thought as well though i do admit i thought "OH S**T here we again" when i saw it
wow, whole lot of wasted potential.
I remember seeing a tweet where someone asked one of the writers about the jet discrepancy, mind you in an inquisitive way, wondering if there was a retcon or not.
It was really discouraging because the writer outright said something along the lines of "I don't care, it's a fictional universe."
Why even BE a writer if that's your stance on things?
Half the fun of writing is keeping things consistent and making it all line up. Feels like a super rewarding feat, that writer was clearly only in it for the money. Like, where’s the drive?
This is because Bethesda's writers don't care about lore. Just whatever they think will be "cool" in the moment. It's why one of the loading screens in Fallout 4 says X-01 was developed post-war, but it still shows up in Nuka World. It's why everything about Quantum in 3 makes it out to be a test product that never got out of Washington, but then it's super common in 4 and 76. It's also why the BoS blows up the Institute at the end of 4, rather than staying in character and trying to capture their technology. Bethesda just wanted the game to end with an explosion, because it's "cool".
How about Myron lied? He may have worked out how to make Jet from brahmen shit but that doesn't mean it can't just be a hyper effective adaptation of taurine that existed pre war and he found out how to replicate later. He may even have found the secret recipe.
@@iainmccord Okay, that would be a valid explanation, but the point is the writer could have thought about that rather than giving the wishy washy 'Lol dude it's a video game who cares' response they did to someone asking about this issue.
@@Hedhnter Not saying it's not a bit rude. Sometimes though it's not best to fill in too many blanks as you can write yourself into a corner. To be fair I didn't get the joke until I wrote my last post. Red Bull was introduced to the UK in 1994, and the US in 1997 which was the same year the first Fallout came out. Brahmin, the alleged source of Jet, were originally red bulls.
My theory is that the Ghoul child is actually a synth the Institute placed recently, in the hopes of him getting found and spying on the other ghouls.
Normally I avoid the "XYX is actually a Synth!" theories, but in this case the this whole quest makes no sense if that isn't the case.
The idea that after 200 years in a pitch black fridge:
- He hasn't gone blind
- He hasn't gone insane
- Nobody else heard him screaming and just killed him (seriously, other factions are active around here)
- No animals have heard him and thought it was food (mirelurks)
- His clothes haven't rotted away
- He hasn't just worn through the fridge through the erosion of punching it for 200 years
- He can still talk after 200 years of screaming
- He hasn't suffocated
- He hasn't died of infection from being in a rusty fridge
- Etc
is ridiculous even by Bethesda standards, and I just can't suspend my disbelief on this one.
If you used this logic for all parts of fallout, you would realise that gen 3 synths shouldn’t even exist because the “uncorrupted sample” isn’t uncorrupted because some types of radiation travel at the speed of light
@@arjandhaliwal7029 I forgot I made that post haha. Nowadays I like the theory that he's only been in there for a few weeks much better.
On the subject of synths, tbh the gen threes are really badly explained and make no sense in general. They are organic enough to pose as humans, use human DNA... yet are somehow unable to age and don't need to eat? They have a component in their body that means they are synth... but you can't see it with an MRI and you have to kill them to get it? They can be programmed like a robot, yet have an organic brain? Could that reprogramming work on a normal human? No? Why not then?
And if they use DNA and don't have machine parts then surely they are a clone not a robot anyway? And so on.
That said, as Fallout is a campy retro futuristic sci fi I can suspend my disbelief on their magic biology more than a random kid still being sane after 200 years in a box.
Lmao, I think everyone is used to being psychotic because of vault tecs experiments
he didn't die by starvation due to be spending 200 years without eating anything
@@victorsrur134 ghoul are dead body who didn't know it. In New Vagas 3 ghouls speak about they rotten and decay. And they say savage ghouls are mad cause the brain is rotted they only left the rachid bulb ( not sure of the term I'm not english)
As far as the Warwick thing goes, I always felt that the quest Blind Betrayal should have intentionally ended the same way. If the player chooses to kill Danse, they loot his corpse, only to discover that there is no synth component. And there's never any explanation or follow-up, you're just left wondering what the truth really was and if you did the right thing. That shit would have haunted me for weeks.
Maybe I'm just weird, but unanswered mysteries always get under my skin, in the best possible way.
It’s interesting about Roger Warwick because he’s not the only synth without a synth component in his inventory. Glory, who claims she’s also a synth, when she dies she doesn’t have a synth component in her inventory
Maybe shes delusional and only thinks shes a synth.
@@Grimnirs_Oath Nope, it's just Bethesda sucking at creating games, they forgot to add a synth component to her inventory, because if she wasn't synth why does everyone else confirm that she is?
@@randomtommy5606 you are talking about Bethesda as if it’s a single entity. There was most likely a single person in charge of making glory’s inventory. And that person simply forgot to add a synth component. Because humans make mistakes.
@@Mr.Goufball a game is not made by independent individuals doing things with no input from everyone else. That's makes zero sense, there needs to be cohesion and a group (groups) and a leader (leaders). A system which, Bethesda and every other game company has...
So yes 'Bethesda' is referred to as a single entity until otherwise specified, because the people who work under the company name work as a group and their work is then compiled into one entity. So it's not one person that 'forgot' to do this, but the group(s) that forgot to, and on top of that, forgot to check for its inclusion.
@@Mr.Goufball well there are more layers to it than that. the person doing the inventory forgot it, the team manager that is supposed to check their work missed it, the department that team works under missed it, and the QA testers also missed it. that isn't a simple mistake. that's entire groups of people that are bad at their job, or just don't care enough to fix small things like that
My main problem is how the whole interaction with Shawn works out.
The Institute can create Synths that can't be distinguished from humans but they can't prove paternity?
They could show you some test tubes and a chart, but how would you know they're not lying? The Vault Dweller isn't a scientist. So you'd have to take their word for it anyway. So why bother with a test you have no reason to trust?
@@greenaum You fool, you forgot about the guy who puts a ten in intelligence
@@greenaum good point if you don't speck into intelligence then you can trust a dna test at all
plus if your not familiar with your DNA and had a test before they could just show you any father child dna combo
unless you do the test yourself... without using there computers because they can make human intelligence level ai you better not trust what there computers tell you
Considering they have a whole genetics lab that can create artificial humans no, they can only prove that someone has half your DNA consistent with paternity.
Well we would know. I’m actually a scientist IRL (microbiology PhD) so we the audience would be able to tell if they were lying to him.
I believe one of the answers to the Kellogg thing elaborates that it was a prank by nick
From what I've seen and heard, it's just that Kellogg isn't even connected to Nick anymore so it's just one final run of his personality before he's terminated
^This. It's the "Sarcasm" option. If the player is using sarcasm often, it's only fitting that Nick has a joke at the Sole Survivor's expense in the end.
@@Matt_History That's what I took from it. He had a limited hold on Nick, but couldn't sustain it long so just wanted to have one last taunt.
I think it was a normal computer function: Kellogg's code (Personality, memory, voice...) was still loaded into Nick's RAM. Upon doing a few processes (IE: Walking up the stairs and talking to you), which eventually called for more information, most if not all the RAM was overwritten with fresh, Nick code.
Nick does also have a limited memory bank so it's possible Kellogg simply gets erased to make room for new memories
To me the biggest plot hole is that the institute needed to take shaun at all. if all they needed was his 'uncorrupted dna', all they would have needed is something like bone marrow samples. And that could have come from the parents.
Considering you were on the surface when the bombs went off and the blast wave reached the elevator just as you descended wouldnt you be exposed to some amount of rads
@@antonfowler6582 shaun was there too tho. unless the argument is that shaun somehow wasnt affected by the radiation.
The "Kellogg possessing Valentine" isn't a plot hole, really, so much as a "Chekhov's Gun" violation.
What's that?
@@blairthomas3920 Famous Russian author and playwright Anton Chekhov once famously said "Remove everything that has no relevance to the story. If you say in the first chapter that there is a rifle hanging on the wall, in the second or third chapter it absolutely must go off. If it's not going to be fired, it shouldn't be hanging there."
Here, Kellogg possesses Valentine for a total of one whole line, but then it's never brought up again. Bethesda put the rifle on the wall but then never followed up with the bang.
I actually have a three-hour video on my channel where I go into exuberant amounts of detail about this game, its strengths, and its flaws, if you're interested: th-cam.com/video/4jHf4gKc5so/w-d-xo.html
Oh shit, thanks man. I'm definitely gonna look into this
Exactly, because it isn't a plot hole as it can be easily explained, just shitty storytelling because it was completely useless
Personally, if I was Mrs. Warwick and I found out Roger was a synth I'd be okay with it. I'd be like "I know you're a synth, but you're a lot better of a husband than the old Roger, so can I like just keep you?"
Personal synth 😉😜
Ashadieeyah Sultana Synth > regular farmers
And you can still bang a synth
He could can slaughter the entire family at any moment....it was more than implied it's happened before. I never seen wether that's because the Institute switched on a kill program and scrap that experiment or the synth just nutted up and became a psychopath.
@@drkspider13 I think I recall reading the specifics of that experiment on the Warwick Farm in one of the terminals inside the Institute, and the final step after experiments were complete was "cleanup". So in short, EVERYONE dies and the place is swept clean to make absolutely sure no traces are left. Which is hilariously backwards because a fucking synth killsquad rolls in on that settlement to wipe it out, and that's the opposite of sneaky.
Last time I was this early X6-88 hadn't found any perfect spots for a mirelurk den yet.
TheLongDark wrong channel man
honestly, i feel like if they gave us a dlc or a line of side quests where we explore nick being taken over by kellog and maybe dealing with some stuff from kellogs past or finding some way to to otherwise remove either nick or kellog from the body and choosing which one gets to go on would've been pretty neat, maybe we can be given a perk for helping kellog take over nick or something
Re: ghouls. We've also seen feral ghouls that are in sealed facilities or pulling themselves out of piles of rubbish. I expect that ghouls (feral or not) can go dormant for long periods of time until stimulated to 'wake up'.
I would also suspect that not all ghouls are anatomically the same, given the way that they're created.
and the way that mutation works, being random, would dictate that its very very likely that the ghoul disease/mutation manifests in different ways and traits
@@locktock9 Yeah that's what I was thinking. Some ghouls look and act like radioactive zombies, some are people. Heck some ghouls glow in the dark and some don't.
It's also possible that some of the people who think Ghouls need to eat are actually wrong. It's possible that they eat out of habit because they used to need to eat, not because they currently need to eat. Has anyone ever seen a ghoul die of hunger? Or do they simply believe it to be possible because ghouls sometimes act hungry?
@@marhawkman303 that and the ghouls themselves may still feel the pain of hunger even if they cannot die of it, thus they'd crave food and even beg for it.
@@marhawkman303
Another reminder that Dean Domino in Fallout:NV admits that he doesn't actually know if he needs to eat or not and does it mostly out of habit. It seems that ghouls technically don't need to eat to live, but eating gives them the energy needed to move like all creatures that eat and ferals simply go dormant until something comes close for them to attack and eat for energy, not sustenance.
When I found the Kellogg after death thing out with Valentine, I thought there was going to be some further explanation too, but I was really disappointed. If they had expanded on this idea further, I think it could have been really interesting.
it looked like a latch for a "operation anchorage" stile dlc, or they could have add some extra mission when talking to DIMA in far harbor.
but they didn't
@@serPomiz i had the exact same assumption. and im sure thats what the original plan was. but was left on the "cutting room floor" as are so many other good bethesda ideas.
@@serPomiz all the ideas I had were shit compared to yours. Great idea!
Everything is all good, for all that time, just forgotten about... until you talk to Dima.
That part still pisses me off. They could have at least included various points of the game where Kellogg comes back out to taunt you more. Maybe even leaving it ambiguous as to whether or he’s actually in Nick’s mind or if you’re just going crazy. But no, only some brief shock value that ends up being totally pointless. Fuck this game’s writers.
I think it would have been a cool companion quest; more and more Kellogg quotes until you get a mission to properly restore Nick’s memory, learn about the institute’s earlier days. Oh well.
Got to be honest, a sub-plot in which Kellogg's personality slowly takes over Nick's body would have been awesome! Though if I heard Kellogg's voice coming out of Nick that first time, I'd think Kellogg already took over, and would have killed him all over again!
I think I actually hung Valentine up in Sanctuary after he did that the first time, because I was worried he would turn on me. Haha!
@@the007gs
Most of us would have assumed the same thing. Sorry Nick, nice to have known you.
I thought nick was just fucking with the player. Isn’t there a line of dialogue where he’s just like “ha got you bitch”
I wouldn't have, tbh. Kellog was a bad man, sure, but he was made that way by his upbringing and circumstance. And, in the end, his death came at the hands of yet another betrayal. I don't regret killing him, but I do feel sorry for him.
@@funnyvalentinedidnothingwrong
Not everyone with a garbage upbringing and crappy circumstances chooses to become a soulless mercenary. Takes a certain type of vile to steal a baby out of his parent's arms and then murder that same parent.
Billy doesn't say he was in there for 200 years. He says something along the lines of "I hid in there after hearing bombs." He was right by Quincy, so he was probably there during the Quincy massacre. Either way, love the vids Nate!
It's heavily implied he's talking about the big bombs from the war 200 years ago, since when you reunite him with his parents he remarks how they look like him now too, and even how the parents talk about their situation, it very much seems like they're talking about when the nukes dropped.
i love this take!!!
@@marikasdaughter6263 Mini-nukes, idk.
I think that Billy was either trolling wastelanders from the fridge, or luring them into a scam with his 'parents'. The reason the player doesn't get scammed is because the gunners show up and attempt to raid the place and they realize that the player isn't someone they want to mess with. The gunner that wants to buy Billy only thinks that they don't age because he heard about a child ghoul from a wastelander who may have helped Billy in the past.
I like that head cannon. I'll use that from now on.
That's why I always blow up Billy's parents and Rob the place
Ok... but how the child end up a Ghoul??
@@MoistGrundle how does anyone end up as a ghoul? Fallout says that certain people, when exposed to radiation will become ghouls.
I say it's plot convenience.
@@seanpeacock4290 In F3 I'm pretty sure it's stated that all the ghouls ended up like that right after the bombs fell. But yeah, you're probably right, really. Bad writing.
Fallout lore, Inconsistencies and plot holes:
And again it works, It just works.
Fallout 4 Fans : Fallout lore it has Inconsistencies and plot holes.
Todd Howard : Fallout 4, It works, It just works
it does thought, they put out shite and money pours back in
The Kellog subplot.....that would have been amazing...
It is a pity they didn't expand on it. Maybe they can re-add it in a future DLC?
Seventy-Six likes is a curse upon you so I'll give another like
@@warlordsquerk5338 Its too late now for that. Besides it would be weird for Nick to suddenly act like a 100 year old dead mercenary after destroying the Institute for the 10th time. It would've been awesome if it was in the game to begin with. Besides I think adding cut content as DLC is a bad idea. That's something EA would do.
Now, I'm not saying we should replace everyone with a bad tempter or bad intentions, but if I had an abusive father, I wouldn't mind him being replaced with a nicer version of him. Is that just me or would anyone else agree?
As far as I can remember, he wasn't actually "abusive" - he's described to "have a temper" and sometimes being unpleasant or stubborn. There is to my knowledge no mention of him physically hurting anyone (emotional abuse can be a bit more complicated to figure out). Even if he was abusive, being "replaced" implies the original was killed (so he wouldn't turn up and expose the replacement) - or at the very least held captive at the institute - probably used for nefarious experiments (such as their FEV project) - nobody deserves that, even if they are abusive.
I'm pretty sure there's a terminal entry about how the replacement is running experiments on the family, and will murder them all when it's done, so it kind of ruined that theme. I really like the idea of a particularly terrible person being replaced by a synth who's actually a decent guy, you could tie in all sorts of moral and philosophical questions, for the family and the synth and the player. Whether or not the player should tell everyone, or maybe someone already knows and wants to keep it a secret, or maybe you could talk the synth into admitting it and the family would react based on your conversations with them. So much potential. It would make a great quest, but of course, they had to screw it up.
It probably makes sense in the manga
With Nick and Kellogg I was hoping for a God/Dog scenario from Fallout NV
Yeah, because Bethesda lets us have cool things.
@@viniciusgama4796 Touche
I think we all were
As for the ghouls under the airport, the brotherhood member was feeding the ghouls to try and turn them from eating people. If he could get them to eat regular food he could keep them from trying to head to the surface by just eating food down there.
I agree. I just started a new play through, and noticed the thing about Kellogg speaking through Nick and did find it rather startling. I took it as Kellogg's parting message, since as soon as he stepped out with his hands raised, wanting to talk, I put a .308 through his forehead from the doorway with a critical shot I'd been saving before he could say anything
The ghoul kid was kept alive by the power of ATOM!
Amen
praise ATOM!!!
@Gjengsta Rr oof.
Talos be praised
@Gjengsta Rr it was kinda funny
How about that guy in Nick Valentine's personal quest who turned himself into a ghoul... knowing that would happen before ghouls even existed
He didnt know it would turn him into a ghoul.
The game points out how he was most likely the first ghoul, “long before it was fashionable”
Hancock apparently found the other half of the treatment lol
He still figured it would make him immortal when as far as we know now all excessive radiation does is kill you
@@KennMila We're talking about a world where they added nuclear waster in sodas so it would glow. And it's actually kinda true for our world as well. Sure, we weren't brainlets but until Chernobyl people didn't really know just how dangerous nuclear energy is.
11:15 the quest that got people pissed off at Pete Hines "people caring about lore in a video game with lazers"
I would have killed to see a whole nick based quest with his fight in his mind between him and Kellogg, dude that would have been so awesome
Also as finale of that questchain you could then actually choose if you want Nick or Kellog to become owner of the synth body.
@@jarskil8862 YYYYEEEESSSSS!
There's a Mod for Nick Valentine that enables Kellogg to speak through him.
It's actually pretty cool.
What's it called
Answer us dammit
Please
kermit_san_ 420 9 months later and he’s still yet to answer
Searched all over the Nexus for Nick and then Kellogg mods, then searched the Gunetwork. Didn't find anything like that.
"Subsistence" farmer, one making his living crop to crop. A "Substance" farmer is someone raising a drug crop. Siltbeans for post-War coffee for instance.
Thank you for that interesting tidbit of information
Of course! They hypnotized roger and convinced him he was a synth, and then they told him was programmed to be a better person! Hypnotic rehabilitation!
EGAD!
HOLY COW!!!
i just like to imagine a dev was like; "Wait, he's a SYNTH? shit, hope nobody notices......"
@@thegreatcornholio5025 Nah, the in-universe lore for Gen-3 synths is that they're more man than machine. They're basically humans with programmable brains. It's possible he never had any inorganic components other than the data port used to program him.
@@marhawkman303 I mean game dev, that just wasn't paying attention.
They say ghouls don't need to eat or drink, but occasionally if you have Hancock as a companion, he'll sit down and start drinking from a glass.