His comment comes mostly from his total lack of knowledge about the amiga llibrary and is mostly based on poor arcade/japanese game conversions by port for hire teams like Tiertex who were mandated to do 8 ports in 3 months on a shoestring budget with no access to the original assets. You will rarely see him cover Amiga exclusive games which were pusing the boundaries of the system far beyond anything we have seen on his chanel bar maybe SOTB. American Amiga games were made in 320*200 to accomodate the NTSC market while european made games were mostly using the 320*256 full resolution mode and there are tons of 50 fps Amiga games. But since almost everything is done through emulation, he can't really grasp most of the technical achievements done on what is basically 1984 hardware (so from the Famicom era of gaming). It's quite unfortunate but this is what you get from someone who mostly focuses on japanese made games with japanese hardware in mind. I can also 100% guarentee that his "little box/poor framerate" comment is directly tied to side ports from Atari ST versions that never used any of the Amiga custom chips (Copper/Blitter/Denise)
@@Fularu 320x200 wasn't really necessary for NTSC. 320x240 would've actually been ideal for NTSC(I believe the official visible lines per field was actually 243, but meh). 320x200 was a decision made to save RAM and processing time that unfortunately looks a lot worse on PAL displays than it does on NTSC displays.
@@CptJistuce Shadow of the Beast was not a pal game either, its used 288x200. The main complement its wasnt used full 320 was actuelly due a bug on the Amiga, as the 8th sprite disappeared when using 320px hardware scrolling. hence many games using hardware scrolling using 288px resolution and not full 320px. This was not about speed, but a bug.
I remember the developer diaries featuring in the DatorMagasinet (later DMZ) paper talking about ball physics, other game projects, visiting trade shows. Their end began when they sold out to EA and became a Battlefield-factory and since before 2020, no original members from BF1942 or earlier remain.
The PC conversion has the wrong aspect ratio and NOT more colors than the AGA verion. Just checked the PArty table. The CD32 version has more detail and more color than the MS DOS conversion.
I do wonder if that aspect ratio is because of the capture, and if it would look properly on a CRT where pixels are not square. But yeah, the AGA version is the way to go for Pinball Fantasies.
I think the colors are the same on DOS and AGA (not sure though). The DOS version also have some extra details on tables, which makes it the best version imo. The aspect ratio is the same as in AGA, but the youtuber recorded using the wrong emulation settings (pixels should be rectangular on DOS).
The high resolution modes seem to be very weird in this game and dosbox struggles to display them correctly. This is not a rookie mistake about how to show 200p.
@@FoxbatStargazer The DOS version runs at several differents resolutions depending on the SVGA support of your video card. Some modern LCD displays wont sync to the menu screen that switches between 640x350 at 70 hz and 640x480 at 60 hz, all of them fit to 4:3
I'm surprised the PSP version didn't make it, possibly the best version after the Amiga originals. Spidersoft were a cancer on pinball games with their wacky ball physics and taking place on a planet where gravity is in a constant state of flux. How Spidersoft kept getting stuff published releasing one bad version after another, I do not know.
I think I already mentioned it when you did Pinball Dreams, but while I couldn’t tell you whether the PSP Minis versions of both games are emulation or not, I do think they’re noteworthy for having tate modes.
I think i remember reading way back when somewhere that the developers of the PSP versions did get assistance from some of the original developers to make sure the feel of the game matched the Miggy?
@@turrican4d599 he is indeed correct with framerate. I'm have no issues when he complain about it as it's actually correct with most arcade to Amiga ports (read: most atari st ports). Alien 3 example was correct. So that fair. I'm do always complain about full screen when incorrect. He did liked some even with low framerate. Depend how it's done and it's still playable.
I grew up playing the DOS version of this series, this and Epic Pinball are a must have for me on any 386+ DOS machine. By the way, one of the few games that supported the poor mans "soundcard" with just a bunch of resistors on the parallel port. ❤
Regarding "full screen", imho, it's a bit different thing on Amiga. Especially with CRT's, there's lots of "area that might or might not be fully visible", and Amiga allows you to use a lot of that. Hence emulators will use all of that area as "the full screen". With many other systems, there are very strict screenmodes that cannot be changed (although you can choose to draw to only part of it), and that's defined as "full screen" in emulators (regardless of whether or not there's empty area around it on TV) But sure, many amiga games used even less than the "minimum overscan area" (especially bad Atari ST recompiles, and there are LOTS of them). Yet another thing is PAL/NTSC. Many games just use 320x200 part of the 320x256 screen. Even more likely if the game was ported from a platform which natively has such lower resolution (such as MS-DOS).
Love Pinball Fantasies Mark. I still have my Amiga version after all these years. I also have the Game Boy version as well. That version was pretty impressive i must say. 8^) Anthony..
Aside from the numerous pinball games, there are lots of Amiga games that smooth scroll in full-screen: Fly Harder Zarathrusta Robocod Uridium 2 Grav Attack Kid Chaos The Killing Game Show Gravity Force Bob's Bad Day Assassin Special Edition Speedball 2 Odyssey Project-X SE Super Frog Ork Aladdin Putty Squad
I got my a500 second hand, well my mum N dad did for me, and it came with a load of (copied 😂) games. Dreams and Fantasies were my absolute favs! The graphics and sound blew me away. Ages later I found out about Illusions so got it boxed, and had never been more disappointed. The music was just crap and the tables were too.
The Amiga versions will be the best for me, of course 😆 . At first because I had the luck to play the original version at launch in 1993. But the CD32 version was really great too with a nice mapping on the pad and of course AGA graphics. Sadly, the title theme using CD support hasn't the same epic spirit, completely different from the original. But appart from my loving childhood memories here is a little bit of objectivity: The PC version is interesting. Front Line Design is a totally unknown studio and seems to just made some conversions of the Pinball series. Music and SFX are the same but clearly, as usual, the rendering is disappointing on real hardware because of the usual flaw of the Soundblaster PCM sound management. Graphics are exactly the same as on Amiga AGA for the most part. The differences are from the colour scheme that isn't exactly the same between AGA and VGA. But there are some slight improvements on tables with more screening on some gradients. And I can confirm you that the screen is shrinked on a real PC due to the high resolution that isn't using the same proportionality on the 15Khz screens. It remains a very nice version Jaguar version suffers of lot of gameplay flaws. Spidersoft wasn't as talented as Digital Illusions. Their Pinball Mania was less interesting and the physic of the ball had multiple flaws compared to the games from DI. So not a real surprise that all the conversions they made aren't at top at least in terms of gameplay. The SNES version, well... I don't know what happened on a version that could have been AGA perfect considering the colour capabilities of the system. But for sure de little resolution (256x224) didn't help the visibility in more global terms. But the music and sounds are here, SNES had very nice sound specs compared to others consoles of the same era. The GBA version is just a mess. Even in Legend of Zelda A Link To The Past, that is IMO a pain to play because it's just an plain conversion of the original SNES game and you often loose because you didn't see something off screen. If it's the case for a game in 256x224, it's even better right from a 320x256 game. I was so disappointed when I bought the GBA version of Pinball Dreams/Fantasies. Particularly because I hoped that the Pinball Dreams tables could be the AGA version we didn't have at the time on Amiga. To be really playable, all the table had to redrawn using the screen resolution of the GBA to maintain the vertical scrolling only.
Yeah, the Game Boy port is infamous for being notoriously difficult to run on anything BUT original hardware. There's a Twitch streamer I follow that attempted to stream it running on the Game Boy Player for GameCube and it kept freezing after a few minutes of playtime. For whatever reason, the game just REFUSES to play on anything but the original gray brick.
These where amiga games done right. Quality entries by Digital Illusions. And every game made a jump in quality in some way. Ball physics might have become a bit too flimsy in Pinball Illusions thou. Thats my memory anyway. The Snes version looks appealing in some ways. If they got the screen correct
Life long fan of Amiga Dreams and Fantasies, still play them now. Have the Jag version too and whilst the Amiga ones do the odd weird ball move, Jag definitely worse Never seen DOS version, looks nice but ball speed too slow and score bit at the bottom of the screen so weird!
Funny story, for a while i didnt know there were 4 tables, i didn't know you had to press space 😅 Shame modern Digital Illusions makes only FPS nowadays :(
Gotta say, that your comment on the Amiga boxing does not represent my own experience; also, the version I play the most is the PSP Mini games that I have on my PS Vita... I really like it on there 😀
Despite the differences in ports, it's nice to see a decent amount of effort being put into so many versions of the same game, especially since most games appearing on the Amiga were not even developed with the amiga hardware in mind.It's a shame about those GBA and SNES ports though. Holy hell.. that ps1 intro is so weird. Not sure why they used orchestra samples like that for sure a game. Very lazy. Infact I'm pretty sure I remember hearing those orch samples used in the BGM for the special mission mode on time crisis on ps1 LOL
The snes and ps1 seem to have received the low quality port treatment for this one. Snes could have even benefited from a little mode 7 table (although it would ruin table detail). The mega drive would have been an easier port...
Amiga base cersion looks plays great , the aga as u say even better No idea what happemed to the snes port as it looks awful , it should of looked as good as the aga port
Played and enjoyed a lot with the MS-DOS version. Many years later, I've a Big disappoint with the SFC port. Horrible in all the aspects. Jaguar have a very good one, one of the few good games of the system
He newer actuelly checked how it perform on the Amiga either, or checking which resolution the partical game was run it. On A Monitor can been a quite difference experimence than playing a Amiga game on a TV. The monitor could switch between 60 and 50hz, unlike most pal TV's. This is just how PC dos games would work, which also have various configurations too. Also base Amiga is a old hardware too. So its pretty unfair comment about it and allways has been, im have commented it many times now and its just not fair. Dont forget most console games has extractly same issues with very bad property PAL support (which often was played in letter box too)....... Example ThunderBlade is one of the very very few that supported PAL property with same speed as the NTSC did with fewer slow downs if all! But what im thinks is fair is all Amiga game reviews it self, that include framerate. Im have newer complain about it. so That fair. So im have no problemo when he complain low frame rate games at all. its totally different. BC Kid is one of them. He liked the game, include the Amiga port, dispite he wrongly complain its wasent fullcreen, but that game used 57hz timing to archive fullscreen on monitor. The emulation is hard to emulate that......
Hello @RetroCore I did know about Action 52 but okay The NES version of Action 52 sold poorly and became infamous among gamers for the poor quality and functionality of its games; it is often considered to be one of the worst games of all time. The Genesis version is widely considered superior, though still of subpar quality but you make battle of ports Action 52 but worst game on battle of ports are extremely rare but this game are only two are nes and genesis thank you 😊
I still regularly launch the Pinball Dreams, Pinball Fantasies and Pinball Illusions series on my Amiga! These games are very addictive for me!
A lot of Amiga games run in 320x200, PAL systems run in 320x256 so that's why you get the big border there. This game uses the full 256px height.
His comment comes mostly from his total lack of knowledge about the amiga llibrary and is mostly based on poor arcade/japanese game conversions by port for hire teams like Tiertex who were mandated to do 8 ports in 3 months on a shoestring budget with no access to the original assets. You will rarely see him cover Amiga exclusive games which were pusing the boundaries of the system far beyond anything we have seen on his chanel bar maybe SOTB. American Amiga games were made in 320*200 to accomodate the NTSC market while european made games were mostly using the 320*256 full resolution mode and there are tons of 50 fps Amiga games. But since almost everything is done through emulation, he can't really grasp most of the technical achievements done on what is basically 1984 hardware (so from the Famicom era of gaming).
It's quite unfortunate but this is what you get from someone who mostly focuses on japanese made games with japanese hardware in mind. I can also 100% guarentee that his "little box/poor framerate" comment is directly tied to side ports from Atari ST versions that never used any of the Amiga custom chips (Copper/Blitter/Denise)
@@FularuDamn...you're really butthurt, huh?
@@Fularu 320x200 wasn't really necessary for NTSC. 320x240 would've actually been ideal for NTSC(I believe the official visible lines per field was actually 243, but meh). 320x200 was a decision made to save RAM and processing time that unfortunately looks a lot worse on PAL displays than it does on NTSC displays.
@SpaceFractal-g2o NTSC monitors should go past 200 lines per field. The ones I've used did.
@@CptJistuce Shadow of the Beast was not a pal game either, its used 288x200. The main complement its wasnt used full 320 was actuelly due a bug on the Amiga, as the 8th sprite disappeared when using 320px hardware scrolling. hence many games using hardware scrolling using 288px resolution and not full 320px. This was not about speed, but a bug.
When these games get the pinball physics right, its pure magic.
I remember the developer diaries featuring in the DatorMagasinet (later DMZ) paper talking about ball physics, other game projects, visiting trade shows. Their end began when they sold out to EA and became a Battlefield-factory and since before 2020, no original members from BF1942 or earlier remain.
The PC conversion has the wrong aspect ratio and NOT more colors than the AGA verion. Just checked the PArty table. The CD32 version has more detail and more color than the MS DOS conversion.
I do wonder if that aspect ratio is because of the capture, and if it would look properly on a CRT where pixels are not square. But yeah, the AGA version is the way to go for Pinball Fantasies.
I think the colors are the same on DOS and AGA (not sure though). The DOS version also have some extra details on tables, which makes it the best version imo. The aspect ratio is the same as in AGA, but the youtuber recorded using the wrong emulation settings (pixels should be rectangular on DOS).
The high resolution modes seem to be very weird in this game and dosbox struggles to display them correctly. This is not a rookie mistake about how to show 200p.
@@FoxbatStargazer The DOS version runs at several differents resolutions depending on the SVGA support of your video card. Some modern LCD displays wont sync to the menu screen that switches between 640x350 at 70 hz and 640x480 at 60 hz, all of them fit to 4:3
I actually prefer the look / colours of the base Amiga version over the AGA.
Never knew there was more than one version of this.
I'm surprised the PSP version didn't make it, possibly the best version after the Amiga originals. Spidersoft were a cancer on pinball games with their wacky ball physics and taking place on a planet where gravity is in a constant state of flux. How Spidersoft kept getting stuff published releasing one bad version after another, I do not know.
Played a lot it on PC in early 90'. Loved it a lot, especcialy for OST.
I think I already mentioned it when you did Pinball Dreams, but while I couldn’t tell you whether the PSP Minis versions of both games are emulation or not, I do think they’re noteworthy for having tate modes.
I was going to mention the PSP version as well. I don't remember it in exacting detail, but I recall thinking that it was a good version.
I think i remember reading way back when somewhere that the developers of the PSP versions did get assistance from some of the original developers to make sure the feel of the game matched the Miggy?
Also, since when have "most Amiga games horrible framerates"???
Since forever with him unfortunately. He has a very marked disdain for european made games and non japanese hardware.
@@turrican4d599 he is indeed correct with framerate. I'm have no issues when he complain about it as it's actually correct with most arcade to Amiga ports (read: most atari st ports). Alien 3 example was correct. So that fair. I'm do always complain about full screen when incorrect. He did liked some even with low framerate. Depend how it's done and it's still playable.
Most ports featured in these comparisions have issues for sure.
I spent a lot of time on the DOS version at that time! Stones & Bones was my favourite table.
I grew up with the Amiga version, like an instant Time Machine to past!
Good job! :D
I grew up playing the DOS version of this series, this and Epic Pinball are a must have for me on any 386+ DOS machine.
By the way, one of the few games that supported the poor mans "soundcard" with just a bunch of resistors on the parallel port. ❤
Great video, as always.
These were the best graphics around when these games came out
Okay WTF is with that PS1 intro LOL
Lol I actually thought it was kinda cool! The music was very "Doomsday" ish. I thought it fit the Space motif myself!
@@skins4thewin 3 x 10p per game 9:48 🙂
@@GeordiLaForgery huh?
@@skins4thewin 30p was a lot of money back then 🙂
Enjoyed watching
I played the Amiga AGA version of this. The only thing I didn't like was that the ball physics seem a bit too light, but overall it was good.
The PS1 port at the end seems like the normal pinball has been swapped out with one made of solid lead.
Regarding "full screen", imho, it's a bit different thing on Amiga.
Especially with CRT's, there's lots of "area that might or might not be fully visible", and Amiga allows you to use a lot of that. Hence emulators will use all of that area as "the full screen".
With many other systems, there are very strict screenmodes that cannot be changed (although you can choose to draw to only part of it), and that's defined as "full screen" in emulators (regardless of whether or not there's empty area around it on TV)
But sure, many amiga games used even less than the "minimum overscan area" (especially bad Atari ST recompiles, and there are LOTS of them).
Yet another thing is PAL/NTSC. Many games just use 320x200 part of the 320x256 screen. Even more likely if the game was ported from a platform which natively has such lower resolution (such as MS-DOS).
Love Pinball Fantasies Mark. I still have my Amiga version after all these years. I also have the Game Boy version as well. That version was pretty impressive i must say. 8^)
Anthony..
Aside from the numerous pinball games, there are lots of Amiga games that smooth scroll in full-screen:
Fly Harder
Zarathrusta
Robocod
Uridium 2
Grav Attack
Kid Chaos
The Killing Game Show
Gravity Force
Bob's Bad Day
Assassin Special Edition
Speedball 2
Odyssey
Project-X SE
Super Frog
Ork
Aladdin
Putty Squad
Early DICE title before being bought out by EA.
There was an iOS version of this. It’s honestly the best version. Such a shame it was removed from the App Store.
Where is the PSP version?
I want to see more ports of Windows Space Cadet Pinball!! Aka the only Pinball game I ever cared about! Ya know, cus it was free with Windows 😅
I got my a500 second hand, well my mum N dad did for me, and it came with a load of (copied 😂) games. Dreams and Fantasies were my absolute favs! The graphics and sound blew me away.
Ages later I found out about Illusions so got it boxed, and had never been more disappointed. The music was just crap and the tables were too.
Lol that was quick!
Good pinball game 😊
The Amiga versions will be the best for me, of course 😆 . At first because I had the luck to play the original version at launch in 1993. But the CD32 version was really great too with a nice mapping on the pad and of course AGA graphics. Sadly, the title theme using CD support hasn't the same epic spirit, completely different from the original. But appart from my loving childhood memories here is a little bit of objectivity:
The PC version is interesting. Front Line Design is a totally unknown studio and seems to just made some conversions of the Pinball series. Music and SFX are the same but clearly, as usual, the rendering is disappointing on real hardware because of the usual flaw of the Soundblaster PCM sound management. Graphics are exactly the same as on Amiga AGA for the most part. The differences are from the colour scheme that isn't exactly the same between AGA and VGA. But there are some slight improvements on tables with more screening on some gradients. And I can confirm you that the screen is shrinked on a real PC due to the high resolution that isn't using the same proportionality on the 15Khz screens. It remains a very nice version
Jaguar version suffers of lot of gameplay flaws. Spidersoft wasn't as talented as Digital Illusions. Their Pinball Mania was less interesting and the physic of the ball had multiple flaws compared to the games from DI. So not a real surprise that all the conversions they made aren't at top at least in terms of gameplay.
The SNES version, well... I don't know what happened on a version that could have been AGA perfect considering the colour capabilities of the system. But for sure de little resolution (256x224) didn't help the visibility in more global terms. But the music and sounds are here, SNES had very nice sound specs compared to others consoles of the same era.
The GBA version is just a mess. Even in Legend of Zelda A Link To The Past, that is IMO a pain to play because it's just an plain conversion of the original SNES game and you often loose because you didn't see something off screen. If it's the case for a game in 256x224, it's even better right from a 320x256 game. I was so disappointed when I bought the GBA version of Pinball Dreams/Fantasies. Particularly because I hoped that the Pinball Dreams tables could be the AGA version we didn't have at the time on Amiga. To be really playable, all the table had to redrawn using the screen resolution of the GBA to maintain the vertical scrolling only.
....any pinball games i see just makes me want to play them naxat ones 😂
I cannot get on board with the versions that have a grey ball and not a shiny one🤷
Can you also cover Ys II?
always liked the dos version best. worked so tight.
Yeah, the Game Boy port is infamous for being notoriously difficult to run on anything BUT original hardware. There's a Twitch streamer I follow that attempted to stream it running on the Game Boy Player for GameCube and it kept freezing after a few minutes of playtime. For whatever reason, the game just REFUSES to play on anything but the original gray brick.
These where amiga games done right. Quality entries by Digital Illusions. And every game made a jump in quality in some way. Ball physics might have become a bit too flimsy in Pinball Illusions thou. Thats my memory anyway. The Snes version looks appealing in some ways. If they got the screen correct
The PS1 version blew their budget on hiring Hans Zimmer for the music? 🙂
Life long fan of Amiga Dreams and Fantasies, still play them now. Have the Jag version too and whilst the Amiga ones do the odd weird ball move, Jag definitely worse
Never seen DOS version, looks nice but ball speed too slow and score bit at the bottom of the screen so weird!
Funny story, for a while i didnt know there were 4 tables, i didn't know you had to press space 😅 Shame modern Digital Illusions makes only FPS nowadays :(
Blame Electronic Arts. At least earlier titles are being done justice, especially with aftermarket releases of games like Ultracore.
This game gets all the love. But Psycho Pinball has less bleak and bare backgrounds and similar tracker made music but way better.
I think I do pretty fine with my CD32 version.
Gotta say, that your comment on the Amiga boxing does not represent my own experience; also, the version I play the most is the PSP Mini games that I have on my PS Vita... I really like it on there 😀
Despite the differences in ports, it's nice to see a decent amount of effort being put into so many versions of the same game, especially since most games appearing on the Amiga were not even developed with the amiga hardware in mind.It's a shame about those GBA and SNES ports though.
Holy hell.. that ps1 intro is so weird. Not sure why they used orchestra samples like that for sure a game. Very lazy. Infact I'm pretty sure I remember hearing those orch samples used in the BGM for the special mission mode on time crisis on ps1 LOL
They absolutely should have shrunk down the graphical assets for the GBA version for sure...
For sure, but sadly, it was a common issue on GBA conversions from other systems.
@iXien Indeed. The graphics needed to be redone and shrunk down a bit. Perhaps simplified a bit.
The snes and ps1 seem to have received the low quality port treatment for this one. Snes could have even benefited from a little mode 7 table (although it would ruin table detail). The mega drive would have been an easier port...
Amiga base cersion looks plays great , the aga as u say even better
No idea what happemed to the snes port as it looks awful , it should of looked as good as the aga port
Played and enjoyed a lot with the MS-DOS version. Many years later, I've a Big disappoint with the SFC port. Horrible in all the aspects.
Jaguar have a very good one, one of the few good games of the system
He newer actuelly checked how it perform on the Amiga either, or checking which resolution the partical game was run it. On A Monitor can been a quite difference experimence than playing a Amiga game on a TV. The monitor could switch between 60 and 50hz, unlike most pal TV's. This is just how PC dos games would work, which also have various configurations too. Also base Amiga is a old hardware too.
So its pretty unfair comment about it and allways has been, im have commented it many times now and its just not fair. Dont forget most console games has extractly same issues with very bad property PAL support (which often was played in letter box too)....... Example ThunderBlade is one of the very very few that supported PAL property with same speed as the NTSC did with fewer slow downs if all!
But what im thinks is fair is all Amiga game reviews it self, that include framerate. Im have newer complain about it. so That fair. So im have no problemo when he complain low frame rate games at all. its totally different. BC Kid is one of them. He liked the game, include the Amiga port, dispite he wrongly complain its wasent fullcreen, but that game used 57hz timing to archive fullscreen on monitor. The emulation is hard to emulate that......
CD32 was best
Gotta hate rushed, unpolished ports... Deadlines hurt so many games back in the day & it's a shame to see.
Hello @RetroCore I did know about Action 52 but okay The NES version of Action 52 sold poorly and became infamous among gamers for the poor quality and functionality of its games; it is often considered to be one of the worst games of all time. The Genesis version is widely considered superior, though still of subpar quality but you make battle of ports Action 52 but worst game on battle of ports are extremely rare but this game are only two are nes and genesis thank you 😊
Pinballfield 😂😂😂😂
Good ol Gameboy fart machine music 😅
That os not trie that almoçar amiga games rim in a box. Stopping saying that. Is opposite that you say.
PARTYLAND F O R E V E R 🤡
AMIGA F O R E V E R 💾🤖👍