@@superdude10000 By the way I don't know if you found out but you made a mistake about Vermintide. You don't have to throw away stuff in vermintide because everything is a skin, you can apply the look of the weapon you like the most to whatever looted item has the stats and most importantly effects you desire. Basically, you don't have to leave that cool axe, any axe can be the cool axe by using the illusion section of your crafting menu.
My opinion: Darktide is now at the state where it is "decent" if you are at maximum level. It is now fun on its own merits rather than just being a pure novelty that I play for a week and then go back to VT2 (which, despite the improvements, remains the far superior game). Combat still feels a bit clunky compared to VT2, and melee is far inferior (90% of the time you do nothing but left click) but it's much improved and I can have fun with it as long as I avoid the many un-fun builds. The problem is that getting to the fun part is excruciatingly tedious. I have never despised a progression system so much. Levelling up sucks, and getting good equipment REALLY sucks - crafting remains abysmal. The game has lingering technical issues too - the AI director is not terribly well-calibrated (in my experience, difficulty tends to be either "comically easy" or "absurdly unfair" with almost no middle ground) and there remain quite a few very frustrating bugs (most importantly for me, the zealot dash activating twice when you only press F once). I also still firmly believe that the way Toughness works is utterly stupid, they had it right in the closed beta test when it was a true overshield rather than a damage reduction modifier, and dodges interrupting stamina regen is equally dumb. I still can't recommend it. If you really want it, only get it on sale, it is not worth full price.
Although dark tide is getting better and better I personally really wish they stuck with the vermintide and vermintide 2 approach of playing as premade characters with premade voice lines personalities and interactions with each other along with a better campaign and not just a terminal full of random missions you can select. Like Dark Tide is okay but I'm really shocked that any sort of campaign progression or character for the people you play wasn't carried over
Bought ur game a few weeks ago, played around 50 hours per week, it's so fucking good and hard, I play with just one friend so it's super difficult but we've gotten through mostly fine, the hardest of the missions are proving to be a problem, but I bet we'll conquer them eventually, cheers
I always got so mad that I wasn’t allowed to play Minecraft till I was like 9 and my much younger brother was playing call of duty at 5. I’m so glad other people have had these experiences
As someone who was playing the Halo franchise while shitting in diapers, I agree. The current kids will be missing out on the sheer amazing experiences that we were able to enjoy, and I honestly pity them. OG MW, the Bungie saga, Orange Box, these are games that I wish I could experience for the 1st time again. (actually, I technically was able to do that with Orange Box because I got the valve game collection during a sale, and god damn it felt good to actually beat all of Half Life 2 (plus episodes) for once. I still need to go through portal, but I beat both it and the sequel back on my 360, so I haven't had much reason to go back to play them.)
One thing that I love about GTFO (and kinda runs contradictory to this video), is that it is based around avoiding hordes. If you seek out fights, you will die. it doesn't matter how good you are, your health is limited, your ammo is limited, and your enemies are not. eventually, you will die if you aren't careful. the basis is not to go on a rampage around the facility, it is to use teamwork and precision to complete the mission while using as few resources (which include health and ammo) as possible.
and the Moments where you have to holdout you have to be smart with your resources like turrets foam gun mines etc... if you are lucky the waves come in one single clump for the mines to make work of them. or there is a door that you can reinforce and booby trap it with turrets and mines
GTFO is such a fun horror experience. Those butt clenching moments when you line up four synced shots and then you hear a fifth, previously unknown enemy wake up, and you have to hunt them down before they wake up the rest of the room are so fun. Or those moments where you or your teammate gets cocky and pops one without permission and cause a horde spawn. Doesn't happen often, but when it does, you gotta love the little blame game afterwards.
@@PANCAKEMINEZZ That's such an interesting contrast from the CoD Zombies idea of "37 zombies will spawn this wave, so you can just leave one crawler and then wander the map freely." I love the idea that you have to be so cautious.
Does it though? (Speaking as someone who hasn't played it in a hot minute) When I played it, you are REQUIRED to fight hordes to progress, no matter how skilled, quiet, lucky you happen to be. (I just saw the comment about HOLD OUTS - and yeah, my point.) I'm disappointed that they didn't fully go into the stealth horror. In all honesty, it just isn't a game for me, and it's advertising really screwed me over when it was in EA cause I thought it'd be a true stealth horror experience. That one game mechanic (the HOLD-OUT events) ruined it for me personally.
@@luciusliu9417 there are hold outs, but the point I was trying to make is that you want to avoid the horses as much as possible. Going in guns blazing like in left for dead won't work, so you must cooperate with your team to avoid waking what lies below.
“The tone of vermintide 2 is light hearted and fun” Bells tolling in the distance Memories of stepping through absolute gore to reach your objective weather it be your enemy’s or your own. The absolute desperation of being last man standing with that special music swelling in the background. The haunting call of a chaos spawn
True, the only lighthearted one is Bardin but thats because he is depressed and trying to cope via grim humor. Same as Kruber and the other characters really
The characters can sometimes be funny, being sarcastic about the horrific situations they find themselves in, but that's just a coping mechanism. Vermintide 2 is probably actually the darkest game mentioned in this video because of the fact that it's set in the End Times and you know that, although you can win small victories, all you are doing is delaying the destruction of the world. The characters don't know it, but you know that every single thing these heroic underdogs are doing is completely hopeless.
And yet, the exhilarating feeling when that sword connects. That moment when you pull a shield over your buddy just as he's being grabbed by the chaos spawn. Dodging and dancing around the whole patrol as the Handmaiden, stabbing them in the face. Meeting the next challenge ready to box the heavens and fate, fist raised in foolish defiance of overwhelming odds, screaming on the top of your lungs " *SIR KRUBER, HAHA*"
The gameplay is simply the best for those seeking mechanical depth at the highest level. I prefer Darktide but both games are amazing and very replayable for thousands of hours
Bro in my friend lists there are people who have 7k hours on vermentide 2 u can definitely have thousands of hour because the combat, lore and maps are so good. And there is chaos waste too
Hey! So I'm a vermitide 2 player (461 hours on v2 (most of it on solo q ( I know I know))) so you won't be surprised if i think you haven't pushed far enough lol. I remember giving the game a try until i reach level 15 with one of the character and then dropping it for 2 full years before coming back. What made me fall in love with the game is actually pursuing difficulty and challenge. Loot isn't as important as you seem to think in the game and the skill necessary to go from a lower to a higher difficutly rises exponenstially. The higher level players you encountered on your runs would have probably dominated the map regardless of gear or hero power. I am not saying that allowing high level player to come and "ruin" your games isn't a flawed design of course. For exemples you seem to not be aware of dodges, which is THE central defensive mechanic of this game (it was a bit painfull ot watch ngl lol). The biggest flaw to accessibility of this game for me is the grind to level 30 on every character, making the entry requirement of the late game (aka the real game) way to long. Regarding loot, getting max level 300 on all your items isn't as grindy and optimising propeties and perks isn't vital until you start to get bored of the officials difficulties and start to venture into modded difficulties (it gets insane). Anyway I hope you find the time and motivation to give this gem a second chance :) (English isn't my fist language this was a good exercice for me hahaha)
I figured this was true, seeing as Deep Rock is much the same way. You start casual until you put in the time; that's life. Thanks for letting me know! The mission-to-mission is certainly fun, so I'm more than willing to give it a further try.
@@superdude10000 vermintide 2 veteran here (343 hours. had to go look it up) i agree with the original commenter that the game isnt the greatest while youre trying to get your characters to level 30. if you can make it up there, though, the loot issue isnt as much of a problem, because by then you will have gotten so much loot that you will stop opening chests unless it's something you may get a coveted red item from (the commendation chests from gaining levels are suprising good at this) i laughed when you said the only respectable special is the assassin, because that just means you haven't been locked in a room with 5 rattling guns yet. if you make it through the leveling process, then you can really start playing with talent and weapon combo builds on different careers. i think that's a well done part of the game. once you do that, come find me in the chaos wastes. that's where the real fun begins.
Vermintide's upbeat tone really starts to get much darker the higher in difficulty and skill capacity you go, it starts to lean more towards that grimmdark side, as the hordes never stop coming, the specials are relentless, and you begin to realise, _these are the endtimes, and the only end is humanity's extinction_ The combat is still wildly lethargic, but it goes from walking through hordes and savoring the approach of several dozen rats to dreading the sound of metal plates clanking around the corner, wondering if it's another stormvermin patrol or a warpfire thrower, there to strip half your health and leave half the hallway doused in flames The feel changes from being a traveling mountain of ass kicking to coming out of each encounter thinking you got away by the skin of your teeth
@@jaemotoo and that's totally fair, though he also talks about GTFO and how difficult that is, which is fairly similar in difficulty from what I heard I couldn't say for certain bc I've never played it, but sounded similar
I don't think i've ever been more anxious than playing VT2 on legendary. My pits were sweaty as hell and I was leaning forward in my seat trying to dodge. that shit is intense.
Melee in vermintide has a few more things to it that you left out! Weapons can have combos, and these attacks usually either have a lot of cleave or armor piercing (or even push, if it's a shield weapon, like a shield and sword). Which means you can control what your attacks do. For instance, Heavy, Heavy, Light with the warrior priest's warhammer for cleave attacks, for dealing with hordes, light, light, heavy for single target damage and armor piercing, for Elites, Specials and Monsters There's also the push attack. If you hold down the attack button while blocking, you'll follow the shove up with an attack. Some players even use this to boost their movement with weapons that thrust. Shoves/blocks are, in general, a good way to reset your combo and ensure that you don't get hit because you're just spamming light attack. I'd honestly say this is the best first person melee I've experienced. Also, while the homing arrows don't seem too interesting at first, it's because they're not meant to deal with hordes. They're perfect for specials (in fact they'll prioritize them) Some characters are really good at crowd control (Mercenary, Zealot, etc) others are really good at putting down specials (Huntsman, Pathfinder) and some are really good at single target damage (Grail Knight, Bounty Hunter) Not to mention the importance of talents and builds, also you should try the game out on higher difficulties. A blightstormer will completely ruin your day if you don't pay attention. The specials can combo each other and end your game fast. A packmaster grabs you in the middle of a horde, while a Warpfire thrower keeps your allies away from you (the fire shoves you back) Or a blightstormer blocks an area that has cover while a Ratling Gunner guns your team down. Also, while the loot system seems bad at first, and trust me, I shared that feeling, I avidly hate Destiny and what it has done to the RPG scene with that little number, the weapon itself and the talents matter more than the number! If you have a 250 item and a 300, but the 250 is better, use it, besides you can craft specific items and they'll be at a higher score. Cool video, though.
Thanks for saying so! I knew I had a casual's perspective when making what I wrote, so I'm thankful you're letting me/others know what I couldn't know in just 10 hours of play. I appreciate it.
The topic of when it's worth switching your weapon is pretty complicated. A 50-point difference in power is pretty huge and that's when I would say you should salvage the lower power item to get materials to upgrade the higher power item and reroll its stats, but the type of weapon matters a lot. You can do a lot better with a low power weapon you're comfortable with than a high power weapon you've not used much (or at all). It's also the case that some weapons are just flat out better or worse even with the same power rating - Kerillian displays the most extreme range in this regard, as sword and dagger will obliterate everything, meanwhile elven axe is a total joke and will perform worse than a s+d half its power rating.
@@superdude10000 yes! what really made me take off in my hours logged for VT2 was when I started to memorize the direction different attacks would swing depending on their position in the chain. sometimes even altering the properties of the attack, meaning a light attack could do more damage to armored enemies than a heavy depending on when you initiated it in the chain, and when each weapon can have its own chains it leaves a lot to just be figured out. a big thing I do dislike for the sake of it being harder for friends to join the game is that the perks take too long to unlock making a lot of the classes feel flat at the beginning so all my friends finish the campaign on recruit in a matter of 10 hours and just say "there's nothing to the game." as such I have maxed 3 characters only after 156 hours, including several x2 exp events. (edit: I checked and the last 2 characters were actually level 29 so I more accurately am only able to make full builds for everyone right before 160 hours which is not great) I'd like to particularly shed some light on the ability you seemed fairly disappointed by at 22:36, it's a taunt that causes most enemies to target you, which may sound bad however, it also gives you infinite stamina for the same duration allowing you to block all the attacks so they aren't hitting your squishier teammates (such as the wizard, huntsman, or assassin) then he also gains access to perks that incentivize him to take those hits by increasing the charge speed of your heavy attacks or increasing your damage for each attack blocked. of course not all the career skills feel like showstoppers, some are more defensive or utilitarian but the whole point of a single character having multiple classes is so that anyone can try finding a playstyle they like (cheesy I know) anyway, sorry for the text wall. maybe we can play sometime, I'm usually pretty good at not splitting from the team.
I love Vermintide 2 with all my heart. I love the depth of the gameplay. And while I'll always hold a respect for V1, it really just doesn't scratch the same itch or expectations set in the sequel. That being said, I really wish they'd do another remaster of old V1 maps and add an option to have the Red Moon Inn as our hub. I've grown find of the keep, but I miss having drunken slap fights with my friends. Lol
the (household rules that got less and less strict as more kids your parents had) is the most accurate statement ive ever heard, my parents wouldnt let me play any M games until I was in mid 7th grade and my little brother was only in 4th and he was already allowed to play Mortal Kombat and other M games
I have never played it, is why I neglected to mention it. I just truly know nothing about it. Though GTFO is made by some of the same folks, it's somewhat in that lineage.
payday doesnt really fit here though. its a coop without really having to be coop, which he talks about in the first part of the video. payday doesn't force you to cooperate with each other unlike these games (idk about vermintide, never played) in payday you can make do soloing on your own, really only three specials in payday can disrupt the solo which are cloakers, tasers, and snipers which are easily countered anyway unlike their original counterparts, cloakers can literally just be meleed with a shock weapon to cancel the kick (smoker tongues can also be slashed by melee in l4d but its way harder and more strict to time) tasers can be easily shot + shockproof aced exists you can tank sniper shots unless you're anarchist + all snipers have the same exact spawns in the map with not much variety even in DSOD you dont have to cooperate much, unless ur 3 other teammates are vastly underpowered and doesn't have much knowledge on the game, you can still play the same way as you do with the lower difficulties.
@@disco1528just play PAYDAY The Heist and there you’ll experience the true L4D inspiration (or PAYDAY 2 on Xbox 360/PS3 or an older version of the game on PC)
That only really applies to payday 2. Payday: The Heist has a much bigger focus on cooperative play that's more akin to L4D rather than it's sequel@@disco1528
@@disco1528 That's just a problem with modern Payday 2. Early Payday 2 (before around Update 60) and Payday The Heist were heavily based on teamwork and cooperation with heavy emphasis on loadout diversity between each player and role specialization. Payday The Heist's specials are almost entirely designed around teamwork, you can see this in the Taser or Cloaker. They were then directly ported to Payday 2 because back then, the game was centered around playing in multiplayer. Teamwork reliant enemies that can instantly shutdown all of your momentum have no place in an incredibly fast paced shooter like modern Payday 2. They're remnants from another era. In Payday The Heist, you can't solo the highest difficulty (OVK 145+) unless you poured weeks into it. Unlike modern Payday 2 where you can just get a build of the internet and be brainless. Conclusion: More people should play Payday The Heist (please it totally fuckin rules)
I agree ! GTFO has some amazing aesthetic and level design such as a very dark room, a very foggy room, a very dark and foggy room, a slightly brighter room with very thick fog, a completely dark room with a bit of fog and my personal favourite : room with fog, but green.
DRG is by far my number one game of all time, it was the first one i got 1000 hours in and i plan on getting another thousand. I've played so much that I've memorised every cave shape in every biome and every monster sound. (also that but where you called the bulk detonator the most dangerous standard mob was somewhat painful even knowing you probable know otherwise)
If you're seeing this around 4-5 months after this video's release: Darktide has released a complete class overhaul with new weapons, abilities, skill trees, levels, bosses, items, etc. It's a fantastic game now and the steam reviews speak for me if you don't take my word for it! I really recommend it!
Nice video. Honestly a beginner's perspective on VT2 is very much welcome. As someone who's been discussing Darktide a lot, I've noticed that whenever VT2 gets brought up it's always from a veteran's perspective, most people forget the issues that the game has that only affect beginners. As for Darktide, while it's true that it's unfinished and has it's issues, I do feel people are way too harsh on it. DT has definitely made some strides in improving certain gameplay mechanics, and as a VT2 veteran that almost exclusively uses melee, I have to say that the improvements to ranged combat are superb, I wouldn't dream of spending so much as a single shot on a horde in VT2 as I feel the ammo is wasted, but in DT it feels rewarding.
I think Darktide is just really struggling right now with the amount of content and variation available to you. The environments, while looking really good and highly detailed, aren't distinct enough when multiple missions take place in the same area. The new update that drops in a week or so brings with it one new mission. The mission update before that brought 2, and before that one special mission. Darktide, as it is right now, is a fun game that lacks content to keep high level players on board. I myself maxed out my Zealot almost 80 hours ago, and while the Auric missions are a true test of your team's power, they're still the same missions with a few modifiers. The endgame doesn't feel rewarding, other than making and crafting better loot. It is brilliant fun in the moment, but it gets very samey the longer you play.
18.29 - Twin tailed comet showed upon the sky, hailing the end times - the end of the world. And it WILL end. There's no saving it. - Ratman, the creatures that just yesterday were a myth, now ruined an entire city and slaughtered most of it population in a single night. - When they were thwarted for the first time, they bounced back, built a portal to accursed north through which chaos touched barbarians of Norska are pouring in and destroyed another city. - You're playing as a dwarf, who, after losing his wife in a mining accident, for which he had a partial blame, went on in exile on an impossible quest. "Tone of the game is lighthearted and fun" What?
Kerilian: "The mystery of the Chaos Wastes... Who do you think created them?" Kruber: "Frogs. I heard it was frogs. Really big frogs." Bardin: "Doesn't sound far wrong, if you ask me."
Also, iirc 1 health state activates only if you have been picked up, so if you use painkillers, get yourself taken down to 1 hp + temporary health you still are faster when painkillers wear off
44:22 "PRAY YOU NEVER FIND OUT" is the correct answer. gtfo's small enemies are tough. the big ones are monstrous. the bosses... nightmarish. and any one of them could be that faint noise you heard in the dark.
Progression to extend game lifecycle with an ovetstretched end goal or a viability to implement mtx 🤣. i dig it tbh, for me it makes the game meaningful, rewarding, players freedom sense of individuality, replayability, and variety. Hope more games with an AI director.
Yeah. I don't think it's going anywhere though. I enjoy loot. But progression is definitely a harmful mechanic to entry, retention, and balance of games like this. It would be nice if loot took different forms than statistical increases to power. There are a few options there. One being going the TF2 route, Sidegrades and cosmetics. Another is story based. Say you get a hub you can Do Things in. Give things to NPCs, acquire cosmetic options for said hub. Progress storylines through fetch quests. DRG lets you spend resources on in game alcohol. So that's cool. IDK man. I don't see it changing in a positive way. The other is just much easier. Perhaps they'll learn how to scale things right.
@@potatoesstarch2376 yea it's oversaturated in live service looter shooters and arpgs. I never had an issue with progression systems regards coop survival and horde shooter genres, until I learn about B4B.
Vermintide 2 - melee and blood Deep rock galactic- unique maps + constant updates + best with friends or if like Minecraft World war z- there’s no better feeling than killing a legit 200 zombies in a row
Everyone always says GTFO is difficult, I bought it but I couldn't tell you how hard it is because my machine is legitimately not powerful enough to run it at a frame rate above 2 a minute.
Gtfo is really fair, I dont think about it being hard or easy, I think its more of a science, you have to know about everything in order to reliably complete maps, which most people struggle to do and often complete maps with cheer luck or number of attempts
Thank the Emperor the game is getting a complete overhaul. With the last career coming for VT2 too, hopefully the game will get the much needed support it needs.
It pains me a bit that Vermintide 1 is not talked about as deeply in videos like this specially with the great maps and moments even though Vermintide 2 amped up everything about it but the first game wasn't ever as popular
Ikr? Currently playing Vermintide 1 for the first time (just finished Garden of Morr) and it's a total blast. I think the main issues with V1's lack of popularity is the perma-online requirement despite having bot support and the fact that you can't set bot priority for solo play without mods. I play solo and was getting really sick of listening to the elf every single game and not getting to play with the bot combinations I wanted. I got the QoL modpack and the Different Bots mod and it's made a huge improvement.
Not to mention Verm 1's lighting and texture work were far superior. It felt a lot more horrific and atmospheric than Verm 2 in some spots. You can see in the Back to Ubersreik levels how much better the engine looked, especially in Garden of Morr. Why they decided to go from nighttime and rainy levels to cheery countrysides for the launch roster I have no idea. Oh, and the Red Moon Inn>>>>>>Ta'al's Horn Keep
Fatshark really dropped the ball with back to ubersreik only containing 3 maps, and they weren't even good ones. So many great maps that could and should have been ported to Vermintide 2 just locked behind the first game which is more or less dead now.
I’ve enjoyed my time with GTFO greatly, and been considering picking up DRG the more I realized it shared a core concept with GTFO. I think this video has finally sold me on it. I look forward to cheering Rock and Stone with the lads soon.
Great video! Speaking of influence, it always seemed a bit weird to me that those competitive "extraction" type shooters like Tarkov never took cues from L4D. It could be a great twist on the genre, like 2 games of L4D playing against each other on the same map. Always fall through on the collaborative aspects though. Maybe I just haven't played the right one yet!
Playing Deep Rock Galactic with my friends for their first time was truly magical. The Nemesis spawned on the first non-tutorial mission. We heard the Nemesis do its usual spiel of "Help meeeee!". I only said "Oh shit, that's not good.". My friends thought there was a someone who needed to be rescued. I said "There's actually three that need to be rescued.". Hard cut to me soloing the Nemesis while everyone else is downed
I've been playing since the alpha. Shame it'll be almost entirely dead unless you have a premade group when the end of life cycle finally completes. Might sound weird to say, but it's too much content for too small of a community
@@bbbbbbb51 i disagree; as it currently stands, the discord for the game and its LFG section are very active. My friend group was only comprised of 3 players for a while so we actually picked up a fourth during rundown 2 through 4, and it was a blast
@@bbbbbbb51 I disagree about it having too much content, but yeah the community is dying left and right. New players struggle to keep around no matter the approach I use, I can be the Group carry and they will take the game for granted, I can be a teacher and they will dislike that they dont have to learn anything, I can sit behind and watch them suffer but they will call the game bullshit and leave. Helping new people is a never ending battle
I cannot express how much i love Vermintide 2, I honestly feel like you got a raw deal not paying with a full party. I am not the leader of the VT2 community, but i have taught multiple people how to play & run them through several hours of unbridled enjoyment. I would be happy to host you, or just join and advise rather than carry. Ive only got 500 hours i think, but i definitely know how to teach the base & in depthschanics of it.
Yeah don't know why he didn't mention it, that became the game for everyone and gave it legs. Nobody was playing PvE after a few months. Dealing with player smart infected and learning how to do ambushes when it was your turn was a whole other skill ceiling.
Despite the video being released 2 months ago, if released now there might be a different take on it. Classes have entire, proper skill trees and the psyker class got an entire overhaul. Fatshark’s making progress at making the game better.
@fartohuluous DRG is great in it's own way I don't really have any problems with it but the gunplay to melee gameplay in DT is unmatched. Other games start to feel slow after getting a taste for DT's higher difficulties with modifiers.
I am actually nausiated by how much people say Vermintide is better than Darktide, it just is not. I love the game but Darktide is just the developers learning from Vermintide and making a superior game.
Vermintide 2 stoicly stays in my top 5 games - along w/ games like Halo 3, TF2, and Kane's Wrath. It conquers not just the l4d genre but it is also the best co-op game I've ever played.
It makes me sad that there's no interest from Valve to make a L4D3. As you say, all the successors take different directions with the formula, so nothing hits quite like Left 4 Dead does (not necessarily for the worse, it's just different), and a Left 4 Dead 3 could have a lot to improve on the game. The successors show that there's so many more types of missions and objectives that one can take on, and L4D's pace still lends itself to creative encounters in simple situations, even if it's just crossing a bridge. To say nothing of technical aspects, like netcode. I don't believe we haven't had improvements here in over a decade, and boy can I see my ping fly when I am in a game.
Honestly Back 4 Blood was a really fun successor to L4D, the card system sucked on release but they fixed it a few weeks after release. Makes for great replayability to have shotgun healer, speedrun melee etc etc. I feel the hate the game got on release was just a lot of bandwagon due to the cherry picked crowbat video.
Me and my friend played the shit out of GTFO, for a whole section of the game it was just us two since our other friends didn’t like playing the game or didn’t have time. The most notable mention was a reactor rundown where we had to put in codes into a terminal while under attack, after each round of putting in codes we had to book it to grab ammo to resupply our sentry’s and us. It was the first level that we had to do 2-3 tries before beating it. Then there’s the evac where we had to book it across the whole map while under attack. It’s honestly one of my favorite coop shooters but I totally get why people don’t like it since it’s a pretty hard game to both play and understand.
You should've put emphasis on "creators" of Left 4 Dead when you mentioned Turtle Rock, cuz it's very well known that L4D wouldn't be how it without Valve Turtle Rock simply came up with the concept, Valve actually made it and turned it into something for the history books
Vermintide 2:Mastered melee combat and build diversity DRG: Procedural generation and innovative gameplay mix GTFO: Super hardcore for true Coop No more room in hell: Unironically one of the best zombie coop games of all time, nails the classic Romero theme better than anything else. Everything else died down and I honestly got bored of very fast (WWZ especially)
Ah, yes, a guy after my own heart. I sunk so many more hours into these AI Director co-op games than any others, it's truly the most replayable genre imo. Vermintide 2, Deep Rock Galactic, Left 4 Dead 2 being my favourite in that order
You have done a very good job describing and reviewing these games. And I agree on most of the points discussed. Just one thing about Vermintide 2. Its actually a skill based game first and foremost, the loot disparity between the different gear quality levels is negligible and by the time you are at the level cap, you will have no problem finishing any difficulty with subpar gear if you know what you are doing and the gear handicap wont be felt that much. The level grind to level cap is annoying though.
One of the best parts of Vermintide 2 is that once you hit level 30 with a character, it becomes more about experimentation with various perks and weapons. Crafting new weapons is never very onerous due to the salvage option and every build feels *mostly* viable. Also worth noting is that weapon levels cap at 300 power - so once there, you can keep your weapons and either upgrade or roll for better weapon perks. As someone that mostly plays legend/cata, team comp become far more important than it would in recruit or veteran. Having a boss killer, hoard clearer, tank and ranger becomes such a fun experience if everyone plays their part. Ignore the end-game scoreboard. A dwarf iron breaker literally betters his team by blocking. I love that game. Obviously. Oh and the Chaos Wastes free DLC helps level the playing field for new players. It’s a rogue like where everyone starts at the same base power level. We helped my buddy level up there so we could play missions together.
44:25 As a fan of L4d and a HUGE fan of Deep Rock, I agree with this heavily. Deep Rock obviously has some level of inspiration from L4D, but I honestly hesitate to even consider it in the same genre of game. Outside the *EXTREMELY* vague description of "co-op horde shooter".
I know a lot of other Vermintide 2 vets have left their opinions but I wanted to comment as well. I've got about 400 hours in VT2 just for reference. The "good" players that are running way ahead of you aren't doing so because of their gear score. Gear score certainly helps, and makes higher levels easier, but a high level player will almost never get hit. Now obviously nobody is perfect and people will get hit, but what I mean is a good VT2 player will block, dodge, interrupt, etc. the enemies very consistently which means they almost never get hit. This is really important at the higher difficulties because even the weakest rats that come in hordes will do half of your HP with one attack. So you legit CANT GET HIT. But then when these type of players go down to lower difficulties, its like playing on creative mode in minecraft. It's literally a cake walk because they're used to much harder enemies and levels. So, basically my point is just that your observation about how important/grindy the gearscore is, isn't accurate. A great VT2 player could probably solo the highest difficulty level with no gear equipped if they really wanted to challenge themselves, it's just more important to learn the game mechanics and enemy attack patterns so you know what you can dodge/block. Also wanted to mention that you said something along the lines of "the endgame of VT2 is just getting the best weapons" but that's also not true. Most VT2 players like me with hundreds of hours are in it for the challenge. The first 2 difficulties are pretty easy overall. The next 3 get significantly harder and I personally am striving to beat every level on Cataclysm, which is the highest difficulty. If you look at some of the most devoted VT2 players, Cataclysm wasn't hard enough for them, so people made mods that make the game even significantly harder than the highest difficulty. I think this just shows that the late game of VT2 is more about the challenge and not really about the loot. The loot will come by itself while you're playing the game. I never felt like I was grinding my ass off to get the best weapon or armor. Just every once in a while I'd get a really good weapon drop and get excited.
Man, Vermintide 2 has such a amazing vibe to it. I don't like the Warhammer universe, but the Vermintide gave me some LOTR feels and I love the absolute end of the world on the maps. I also choosed dwarf and boy is it fun Edit. Also, I forgot how amazing the OST for Vermintide is. Absolutely slaps
Just recently found your channel. Honestly surprised at the size given the quality. Nothing new about smaller channels having potential, but your videos are to the same standard as a lot of quality channels. And you’re hitting it right out of the gate as well it seems, your videos are relatively recent and there’s not many of them. Looking forward to seeing what you make next and rooting for you when you start getting into the 100k level
left 4 dead is a "feel good" game for me, I can boot it up with a friend and have a blast and feel relaxed afterwards. GTFO... anxiety simulator mixed with a dread simulator. Being 1 hour in to a mission and not knowing how long until you finish or if you will at all gives me a heighten risk of heart failier, But I just cant stop playing it
I wish you had talked about Evolve. Because it had some really good elements. It showed promise and while the game wasnt great it was fun for a couple rounds with friends. It's monetization sucked and was the start of a new era of monetization but the framework of a good game was there. I'd love to see you explore what worked and what didnt of Evolve.
I loved Evolve, so believe me, I could do that. Just wasnt really in scope for this video. I was mostly meaning I wouldnt talk about Back 4 Blood; Evolve was never on the table. Maybe in the future though!
As someone who tried GTFO and enjoyed it, I would also say this just as a warning. There will be times when 2h of progress gets taken away in an instant. And remember to learn what you can from your death.
Huh. From what I remember, GTFO used to have the mission roster be seasonal and once that time passed, so did those missions. I guess that changed in the intervening months/years?
also probably because of lore too, since some terminals in different rundowns that would be eliminated have info on the story of the game, so newer players have no idea what was going on
As someone with 400hrs on vermin tide 2 I can definitely say that the specials who are designed to incapacitate you will tickle you at the difficulty that you are playing, with hordes being more dangerous as a result. I would say champion difficulty is where the game starts to be more balanced(and have friendly fire) , whereby your skills are starting to be tested. And legend difficulty is where you have pretty much learned everything there is to learn. Getting hit by a single common enemy in legend does around 20dmg. And the vermintide variant of the hunter from l4d2 at legend difficulty can easily down you in around 8 seconds from 100hp,
As one of the 5 Darktide fans out there, I do want to address some of your comments. First off, the game is in absolutely in a worse state than Vermintide and needs more content. That is uncontestable. I will note that Fat Shark can learn from their mistakes, however. Difficulty in Darktide is far less gated from the get go. By your second mission you can be playing Difficulty 3 which is a really solid place for new players to learn the ropes. Specialists are threatening so you need to work together or learn the patterns. Rewards are decent so you can start building a cache of crafting mats. But the difficulty is also low enough that with the revolving door of gear you have you can experiment and play with them without having to worry about tweaking with gear rolls. Something else to mention is Darktide is far more of a shooter than Vermintide or pretty much any of the other games in this video. In Difficulty 3 and below there are enemies with guns but they don't really do much damage unless you play really dumb. In Difficulty 4 and especially Difficulty 5 even a single shooter brutalize your health pool. All of a sudden the game becomes just as much about dealing with hordes of zombies and the Specialist spawns as it is about being able to clear out rooms of gunman while trying to avoid health damage as much as possible. It's a very different dynamic that catches a lot of players off guard but is also what makes the game stand out from it's peers. So, in summery yes the moment to moment gameplay is amazing (as you mentioned) and the gear progression needs help (as you mentioned). Also, while Fat Shark did smooth out the difficulty curve they introduced a brand new aspect to fuck it up with (which you sort of mentioned in the Vermintide section about that's game difficulty). Basically, the Tide games are similar but there is more separating them than just a new coat of paint on the setting which was enough for my inner pedantic nerd to activate. P.S. I actually find Darktide funny. It's a fucked up setting but funny because of how fucked up it all is. Also, Hollowette and Melk on Ascension Riser 31 is hilarious but that might just be a sign of poor taste lol
Oh yeah, I've heard many people say that if you take Warhammer 40k seriously, you're doing it wrong. How can a setting with Noise Marines not be at least partially a joke, and IN on the joke as well?
Another Darktide fan here. I pretty much have to agree with you on all points. The game still needs work, but the actual gameplay loop is fun. I also like the fact that long range and melee combat are things you have to properly manage. That, as well as just how sadistic the AI direct can be with its enemy combination choices, is pretty much why I actually have been enjoying the combat in Darktide more than Vermintide 2 (though I do still really like Vermintide 2). I also have to agree that Darktide does a better job at pushing players through higher levels of difficulty. Malice difficulty (level 3) is pretty much the make or break level: if players haven't figured out teamwork and fundamental combat skills by this point, they're going to have a hard time, and in Heresy difficulty (level 4), they'll get outright annihilated If they haven't figured things out. And yeah, Darktide is rather funny. I think that's just owing to the whole Warhammer 40k universe though: It's so over the top, you can't help but laugh at it (Gotta love the Inquisition motto: Innocence proves nothing). The new auric difficulty modifiers Fatshark recently added in are just as insane. Been loving every minute of it.
@@superdude10000 Yo, so in case you haven't heard Darktide has a major major update at the beginning of the month that added skill trees to every class that adds serious depth to the build crafting. It's not Path of Exile or anything, but it's created at least 3 unique play styles for every class. Endgame progression is still the same, but now there's enough variety and enough builds that you can chase all sorts of easy to get "good enough" gear to make different builds work. Also I can now cosplay a Commissar and yell at people to heal them. Also ogryn has a frag grenade. This should scare you.
Vermintide was an unexpected extremely fun experience! So glad I discovered it way back when it came out even tho I had no idea what a Warhammer game was as I never heard of it. L4D2 is my favourite game since the day of release and Vermintide 1&2 are my 2nd favourite titles in this genre.
One thing to note about Vermintide 2 is that you can eventually unlock orange and red weapons items which have an extra ability. These include things like getting extra attack speed after a crit or your headshots returning your ammo. Red weapons also have maxed out stats, allowing you to reroll only the stats you want, rather than the percentages.
So. It's been a minute, and I've seen some common complaints that I'd like to address in a central place (almost like that's why the pin comments exist or something, i dunno) 1.) "Why didn't you talk about Payday?" I have literally never played Payday, it wasn't on sale when I was writing this, and none of my friends wanted to try it, unlike with Vermintide 2 where we all jumped on together. That's the only reason Payday isn't mentioned. For the observant among you, you may notice I had no prior experience with Vermintide before this, so why did I bother with it unlike with Payday? That's because I bought Darktide when it originally came out ($60) and found out it wasn't great at that time. So I wanted to try what I was told was the better version, Vermintide 2. Speaking of... 2.) "You're a dirty Vermintide casual who gets a lot wrong." Correct! I don't think either this opinion or MY opinion is wrong, per se, just my understanding of the mechanics in this video was undercooked and I am speaking purely from the first 20 hours of someone playing Vermintide, which is to say, I'm playing the worst part of Vermintide. I've had loads of endgame Vermintide players give me the skinny on some mechanics I've missed, and how the upper levels changes things. The loot becomes less of an issue, once you get one character to max level it becomes easier to grind the others, my lack of dodging proves I was/am a casual (true), and you WILL learn to respect those special enemies at higher difficulties. All of this is true and fair. There's a depth to the mechanics that I just can't see from this deep in the pit, and I need to spend time climbing out of it. Nobody denies this: Vermintide is a game where you have to drudge a bit to get to the fun part. DRG is the same way; you start in a weaker state with less tools, then the game slowly gives you more as you level. This serves to not overwhelm you with mechanics, but it also means the worst version of the game is the one you get introduced to first. Push through, and you will make it to the other side that so many people super adore. Vermintide does a poor job of justifying itself, in my opinion. As I said in the video, and have been told by others: bring people with you and do it together. There's a lot of fun to be had after the grind (and also during it, but you have to like the lesser version to get to the greater, y'know?). 2.5) "You look like a casual in general." Don't pretend to know me because you've seen me play a couple of games. Playing DRG on Haz 5 doesn't make for a readable experience, so I didn't record Haz 5. Even at Haz 4 (what I recorded), I found a lot of the footage to be unreadable camera shake, so I had to cherry pick even at that difficulty. As for Vermintide, it wouldn't let me play at higher levels (and to be frank, if I did play at those higher levels, I would've just lost since I didn't have a handle of mechanics). And like, GTFO. GTFO, dude. If I belabor this point for too long, it'll sound like I have something to prove, so I will just stop it with letting you know this really isn't the case (with shooters at least). 3.) "The Big Daddy is super memorable, what the hell are you talking about?" To be clear, I PERSONALLY didn't remember what Mr. Bubbles sounded like. I personally think that Mr. Bubble's combination of wails and moans aren't as evocative as a Smoker's coughing, Hunter screeches, or the Jockey's odd laughter, but that's just my opinion. I chose the B.D. specifically because they were recognizable, rather than choosing say, a random soldier from a Call of Duty. A mistake in hindsight, given how passionate some people are about Bioshock, but what can you do. You like and you learn. Also, some people are arguing against me like I'm saying Bioshock's sound design is bad or the game is bad in general. I AM NOT SAYING THAT, that would be insane. I'm saying I don't find Mr. Bubble's sounds memorable, is all. 4.) "Back 4 Blood/EVOLVE are fine actually." Sure. I won't yuck your yum, but I hated Back 4 Blood's card system a lot. I won't get into it (I dedicated a page of the script to it), but I think it's bad design, how they laid it out and how it affects progression. Evolve... that's a different story. I think Evolve would be considered good if it were made in today's Games as a Service landscape, but it came out 2 years in advance of the model as we now know it and couldn't take advantage. It paywalled most all of the content, and was too repetitive without that fresh stream of content the way that Fortnite tends to do it. This argument is especially ironic for me, because I loved Evolve. Y'all are arguing with the wrong person, I wanted that game to rule as much as the rest of you. 5.) The ever common, "Video Game W doesn't deserve to be on this list for reasons XYZ." That's just, like, your opinion, man. These videos are my opinions. My tone makes me sound like I'm saying it with absolute authority as if it's the truth (that's the autism), but it's not. It's my opinion. Thanks, love you
@@machetas I mean. I did talk about four of these game types (commented on seven), and this video is longer than all my others by more than 10 minutes. I was already worried about time in what I have. I did do a lot for this one, I think. I'm not sweating Payday. Maybe I'll try them when Payday 3 comes out, I think I heard that's a thing?
The only bad thing about Vermintide is that you have to put in a whole lot of time in order to really get into the meat of the game because the real fun part of it is when the game goes from small number increases and becomes a game revolving around what builds you do. That is why I enjoy it because it changes vastly when you sink time into it to the point where you get stuck on the higher difficulties and say "What am I doing wrong?" and then you figure out it is not the numbers because no matter how lucky you get it does not make a difference and then you explore other weapons, careers, and traits. Forgot to mention as well, the main reason why you get stuck is because eventually power numbers do not go high enough to be significant so it will try to make you get creative or find synergies
The beginning of vermintide may be tedious because you're just going from weapon to weapon but once you get to the 300 gear level and at most level 30, you get free reign on what weapons you want to use as the gear level is almost guaranteed to be 300.
One thing that you forgot to mention about GTFO, and EVERYONE should know this going in. The missions get LONG, some won't be too bad, like 20 to 30 minutes but boy do they get stressfully long at points. My longest run so far was just over 2 1/2 hours long, and we were not even that deep into the rundown. For my group of friends GTFO is a weekly thing we do, and we do 1, maybe 2 missions and then stop cause that stress builds up, and builds fast, and boy do I love it!
Some stuff for V2 they don't teach you in the tutorial If you hold attack while blocking, you do a push hit, where you push and do a unique hit different from your light and heavy attack You can hold block while reviving a teammate so you can be guarding as you revive him Some weapons have a unique attack that requires another button to use and that's mainly it
Heyo! Also one of the Vermintide 2 people here and have a good amount of time in it (tend to stick away from legendary and cata when I don't have the regs with me) but as I think a bunch of others have already said the biggest thing in vermintide is getting experienced and learning the game over power levels. Character levels and perks do make a BIG difference though once you understand what they do but similarish to deep rock party roles are a big thing regarding class choice, weapon choice, and even the perks on your gear as especially at the higher difficulties your group needs to be balanced so everyone can deal with different things or the game will kick your teeth in. For example the big things are armor piercing, raw damage, crowd control, range, speed, and any special riders on your weapon like for example weapon and shield has a larger block/push radius and also has the benefit of being able to block bullets from ratling guns so your party members with armor piercing ranged can put them down while you tank.
I suggest you get back into Darktide. I've enjoyed the game as of late, been addicting so far. They've fixed a lot of the game and allowed for more variety of gameplay options. Some fun and interesting shit with how the weapons work now since before it was catering to the meta. Weapons feel nicer now and character feel more fleshed out with a purpose. Vets are squishy but scary characters, ogryn are crowd pleasers, zealots are the distractions, and psykers pack a punch to the right foe. Fun ass game now, hated having the play it 29-49 fps then, but now it's got a consistent frame rate and hasn't crashed on me for a few months now.
@@bbbbbbb51Prices have been adjusted to be less predatory but the mtx shop is still there of course. They did however add a new vendor that sells a bunch of proper cosmetics for non paid currency as well as a number of new challenges made to be completed easily that unlock class cosmetics.
Vermintide 2 vet of only 300 hours. I'm going to be honest, I've basically not played on even Champion in a really long time. But to say the difference in difficulty is massive, is an understatement. In Legend you become acquainted with "overheads". You probably got hit by them plenty times and didn't even notice it was a different attack, but on Legend and worse, Cataclysm, you can very easily be one-shot by an overhead if you aren't paying attention. Getting swarmed starts to mean that you will be chipped away helplessly if you don't know what you're doing. And everything, in general, is designed in such a way that once you get to Champion or higher, you are fighting for your life with every combat encounter. You can get good enough to know how to oneshot your foes, or stunlock them, and even avoid their attacks entirely. But even with maxed out equipment, if you can't keep track of all your enemies, you quickly will be blindsided and die. The endgame of Vermintide 2 is a slaughterfest, guts galore, a brawling game as you tango with the bosses, and without warning it sometimes becomes the fight for your life. With everybody put against you, and a single lapse in concentration will get you killed. And honestly? It just goes to show how only having played on Veteran versus beaten Cataclysm can chance your perspective on all the classes. Smokebomb? Yeah that's not even Ranger Veteran's ace in the hole. I'm no professional at Vermintide, by no means, but each class has a distinct job in the group that they fulfill. Roleplay as an AC-130, become a ninja, or even just a tried and true tank class. Some classes are better at killing the bosses, and some better at killing hordes of tiny men. Honestly you didn't even mention berserker classes, which take "melee focus" to "haha no more ranged weapon". You don't even get a gun, just a second melee slot so you can bring two different swords. One big sword for dropping onto the heads of Chaos Knights, and one sword with a shield for dancing in crowds of rat slaves.
I disagree with your opinions about Darktide, but obviously respect your thoughts on them. Darktide is, mechanically speaking a better game than Vermintide is. It helped hone and master the hybrid combat which vermintide introduced. It took a few stumbles, such as lack of classes (This is changing with it's October update) but from a sheer gameplay pov, Darktide evolved Vermintide's system. My two cents is all. Great video though. :)
As someone who has sunk thousands of hours into vermintide you make a very good point and it's a huge issue for the game. The end game has so much depth and nuance to the combat but 90% of players will never experience it because they burn out on the loot and level grind on lower difficulties and shelve it. I actually quit the game myself less than 30 hours in and it wasn't until a coworker convinced me a couple of years later to pick it up again. I told him I liked souls-like games for the difficulty curve and said vermintide wasn't challenging enough to hold my interest and he laughed and said I had no idea, looking back now he was very right.
I think another game you could have put on the list is space hulk deathwing. Its in the 40k universe and you play as a group of space marines clearing out a broken starship filled with hordes of tyranids, there are a couple special enemy variants, and the bulk common enemy is a melee attacker. Also cooperative is important
Good news, Darktide got an overhaul with it's class system. This may not convince people that don't like core issues like the progression, but if you like the gameplay it's much more polished.
Darktide may yet escape its purgatory soon with its console release and class overhaul. Seems this will be the "leaving the very obvious early access state we didnt say was early access" patch... If it's good atleast. It'll definitely have the kinks to work out of itself still but it's definitely gonna get me back onto it for a whole lot longer again as the combat is insanely good and having more substance to back it is exactly what I have been needing. It's definitely a shame it released the way it did though, FS management is real rough, hoping for the best.
We're the same age and I also first played a Left4Dead(2) game at 13. Quickly became one of my favorite games, next to Minecraft. Sometime last year I found Deep Rock Galactic. It instantly filled that same spot L4D sat in years ago. The procedural caves were a nice touch on the genre. Not only that, the devs are saints and genius'. Pretty much you work for everything you want in the game, and every single cosmetic thing is optional and free aside from DLC. You dont even need to rank up your weapons if youre good enough. There is several ways to play the game per gun, per dwarf. So if youre tired of using one gun, you can completely change the combat feel of the game on the same character. DRG is also made in such a way that using 1 of each dwarf on a mission is the best balance in the game. Missing one type of dwarf leaves an obvious void in the flow of a mission. Even then, its still satisfying playing with 4 engineers or 4 drillers. Also, I completely agree with GTFO being on this list. Its so hard to play/get into though because its a legitimately hard game. Even more so than L4D and DRG, you NEED teamwork. I havent played it much solely because I didnt have people to play with (dont think it had open lobbies like DRG at the time). I absolutely loved the concept though, a stealth take on the genre is something I didnt know I wanted until it existed. I should revisit the game one of these days.
One thing ill never understand about people who look back at Lfd2 is that, why does it need to be modernized? Back 4 blood is proof that lfd's model worked On top of that, the fact left 4 dead is still highly played proves that it doesn't need to be modernized. It doesnt need progression. Doesnt need advanced movement. Doesnt need aim down sights. It just needs to be polished, well made, and fun.
I remember when Rundown 4 originally dropped and we had a room with 7 scouts milling about... we actually killed them all without alerting any of them (Hammers ftw, its all they had in the early-release in terms of melee😅), but the level of stress we had... sheesh Anyways yeah scouts are "easy" compared to what may come your way towards the end of rundowns and later rundowns (they're finished after Rundown 8 releases, working on a new game, and Rundown 6 just re-released too. They used to end the availability of Rundowns when introducing new ones, but over the last year they've gone through re-releasing them all in leading up to the final Rundown). Awesome to see someone spreading the love for GTFO. The game is great and deserves to be seen!
I really like Chaos warriors in Vermintide, their warcries, sound design, their power. Slaying a horde and hearing hard stomps, echoing, slowly coming towards you, and he calls straight to you "I AM COMMING FOR YOU ELF", when I hear chaos warriors, no matter where I am in a fight, I always run straight to them, kerilian (my character) yells out "Come, scunner! My disdain alone will fell you!" and I have an amazing 1 on 1 fight it's sooo fun blocking, dodging
something to note about the devs of back 4 blood , turtle rock , is that they were ONE of the devs of left 4 dead not THE devs of left 4 dead , as far as i know both left 4 dead games took multiple teams of not only game developers but composers and even stuntmen to do the motion capture for some of the common infected
L4D 2 suffered from coming out so soon after the first. I truly think it would have benefitted from another year of development. That said, Valve was on their way towards being done with making games, so I guess we're lucky we got it at all.
Your story about your older cousins and them playing Left 4 Dead totally reminds me of my experience with games too. My older cousins had Xbox games (I only had a Wii and DS) but when I saw them playing Halo Reach and Modern Warfare 2, I really wanted those games. Being introduced to those games "for older kids" allowed me to eventually get into Steam and thats where I found Left 4 Dead and the other great Valve games like Team Fortress 2.
With darktide the games fun and has a fantastic set of core systems from the combat, animations, enemy designs, setting and music but falls short on replayability after a few hours. It will get better as thats what fat shark does but right now give it a year before buying.
I will say this for Vermintide, you respect the specials on higher difficulties. It goes from minor annoyance to instant death Champion and above. For me I played it solo till I got to level 30 then started playing on Legend. That’s when I started having fun. Champion and above is where the game feels right with all perks for a career. It’s also here you can do the weapon crafting with some ease and design a class around what you want to do, IE Armor Specialist, monster killer, horde clear, or just surviving.
vermintide may be a melee focused game, but if you get a good drakefire pistol build on dwarf with the big axe n shield, you can just play a ranged focused game lol and it may be about replacing weapons, but as you get higher end weapons you dont really replace em anymore
hi i was just wondering now that darktide has improved what do you think of it in its current state? worth buying?
Totally.
@@superdude10000 By the way I don't know if you found out but you made a mistake about Vermintide. You don't have to throw away stuff in vermintide because everything is a skin, you can apply the look of the weapon you like the most to whatever looted item has the stats and most importantly effects you desire. Basically, you don't have to leave that cool axe, any axe can be the cool axe by using the illusion section of your crafting menu.
My opinion: Darktide is now at the state where it is "decent" if you are at maximum level. It is now fun on its own merits rather than just being a pure novelty that I play for a week and then go back to VT2 (which, despite the improvements, remains the far superior game). Combat still feels a bit clunky compared to VT2, and melee is far inferior (90% of the time you do nothing but left click) but it's much improved and I can have fun with it as long as I avoid the many un-fun builds.
The problem is that getting to the fun part is excruciatingly tedious. I have never despised a progression system so much. Levelling up sucks, and getting good equipment REALLY sucks - crafting remains abysmal.
The game has lingering technical issues too - the AI director is not terribly well-calibrated (in my experience, difficulty tends to be either "comically easy" or "absurdly unfair" with almost no middle ground) and there remain quite a few very frustrating bugs (most importantly for me, the zealot dash activating twice when you only press F once). I also still firmly believe that the way Toughness works is utterly stupid, they had it right in the closed beta test when it was a true overshield rather than a damage reduction modifier, and dodges interrupting stamina regen is equally dumb.
I still can't recommend it. If you really want it, only get it on sale, it is not worth full price.
Yes. On sale rn!
Although dark tide is getting better and better I personally really wish they stuck with the vermintide and vermintide 2 approach of playing as premade characters with premade voice lines personalities and interactions with each other along with a better campaign and not just a terminal full of random missions you can select. Like Dark Tide is okay but I'm really shocked that any sort of campaign progression or character for the people you play wasn't carried over
GTFO devs here: appreciate you checking out our game 👊
Your game gives me toxic levels of anxiety.
I love it.
It looks really good but its not on Xbox so I can't play it
Will it come to Xbox?
I hope you guys have stopped hiring community managers who straight-up harassed your players... Ya know?
Bought ur game a few weeks ago, played around 50 hours per week, it's so fucking good and hard, I play with just one friend so it's super difficult but we've gotten through mostly fine, the hardest of the missions are proving to be a problem, but I bet we'll conquer them eventually, cheers
I like Children of L4D. Its less condescending than L4D clones or needlessly combative as L4D killers.
L4D2 was already been killed.
@@DrundeFPSby what? No game in the genre rivals it.
i prefer the term extraction shooter, actually.
@@lordhawkridge4116 Payday franchise
@@jerrjohnpresti l4d style games are not extraction shooters, thats what they call games like escape from tarkov.
I always got so mad that I wasn’t allowed to play Minecraft till I was like 9 and my much younger brother was playing call of duty at 5. I’m so glad other people have had these experiences
im an only child and i was always jealous of my friends like that
Parents are always really strict and anxious when it comes to their first child. As they learn they tend to be more chill about things.
As someone who was playing the Halo franchise while shitting in diapers, I agree. The current kids will be missing out on the sheer amazing experiences that we were able to enjoy, and I honestly pity them. OG MW, the Bungie saga, Orange Box, these are games that I wish I could experience for the 1st time again. (actually, I technically was able to do that with Orange Box because I got the valve game collection during a sale, and god damn it felt good to actually beat all of Half Life 2 (plus episodes) for once. I still need to go through portal, but I beat both it and the sequel back on my 360, so I haven't had much reason to go back to play them.)
I wasn't able to play minecraft until I was 14. My brother got to play it at 8.
wasn't able to play halo reach multiplayer because I was "killing humans", was completely fine with firefight though
One thing that I love about GTFO (and kinda runs contradictory to this video), is that it is based around avoiding hordes. If you seek out fights, you will die. it doesn't matter how good you are, your health is limited, your ammo is limited, and your enemies are not. eventually, you will die if you aren't careful. the basis is not to go on a rampage around the facility, it is to use teamwork and precision to complete the mission while using as few resources (which include health and ammo) as possible.
and the Moments where you have to holdout you have to be smart with your resources like turrets foam gun mines etc...
if you are lucky the waves come in one single clump for the mines to make work of them.
or there is a door that you can reinforce and booby trap it with turrets and mines
GTFO is such a fun horror experience. Those butt clenching moments when you line up four synced shots and then you hear a fifth, previously unknown enemy wake up, and you have to hunt them down before they wake up the rest of the room are so fun.
Or those moments where you or your teammate gets cocky and pops one without permission and cause a horde spawn. Doesn't happen often, but when it does, you gotta love the little blame game afterwards.
@@PANCAKEMINEZZ That's such an interesting contrast from the CoD Zombies idea of "37 zombies will spawn this wave, so you can just leave one crawler and then wander the map freely." I love the idea that you have to be so cautious.
Does it though? (Speaking as someone who hasn't played it in a hot minute)
When I played it, you are REQUIRED to fight hordes to progress, no matter how skilled, quiet, lucky you happen to be. (I just saw the comment about HOLD OUTS - and yeah, my point.) I'm disappointed that they didn't fully go into the stealth horror.
In all honesty, it just isn't a game for me, and it's advertising really screwed me over when it was in EA cause I thought it'd be a true stealth horror experience. That one game mechanic (the HOLD-OUT events) ruined it for me personally.
@@luciusliu9417 there are hold outs, but the point I was trying to make is that you want to avoid the horses as much as possible. Going in guns blazing like in left for dead won't work, so you must cooperate with your team to avoid waking what lies below.
“The tone of vermintide 2 is light hearted and fun”
Bells tolling in the distance
Memories of stepping through absolute gore to reach your objective weather it be your enemy’s or your own.
The absolute desperation of being last man standing with that special music swelling in the background.
The haunting call of a chaos spawn
"WHAT DO YOU MEAN IM A STEAM TANK WOO WOO"
True, the only lighthearted one is Bardin but thats because he is depressed and trying to cope via grim humor. Same as Kruber and the other characters really
it's funny in a cosmic, ironical sense.
The characters can sometimes be funny, being sarcastic about the horrific situations they find themselves in, but that's just a coping mechanism. Vermintide 2 is probably actually the darkest game mentioned in this video because of the fact that it's set in the End Times and you know that, although you can win small victories, all you are doing is delaying the destruction of the world. The characters don't know it, but you know that every single thing these heroic underdogs are doing is completely hopeless.
And yet, the exhilarating feeling when that sword connects. That moment when you pull a shield over your buddy just as he's being grabbed by the chaos spawn. Dodging and dancing around the whole patrol as the Handmaiden, stabbing them in the face.
Meeting the next challenge ready to box the heavens and fate, fist raised in foolish defiance of overwhelming odds, screaming on the top of your lungs " *SIR KRUBER, HAHA*"
"Son, we just crossed the street."
Glad that hit someone else like it did me.
Vermintide is my favorite of all time, mostly due to the writing. You can be 200 hours in and still hear new voice lines
The gameplay is simply the best for those seeking mechanical depth at the highest level. I prefer Darktide but both games are amazing and very replayable for thousands of hours
"these stairs go up!" - master bardin goreksson.
@meestersecure9060 I wouldn't say thousands, but definitely hundreds. Still a lot of playtime. Just don't over-exaggerate things.
@@manboy4720
"Be MoRe CaReFuL gOrEkSsOn"
Bro in my friend lists there are people who have 7k hours on vermentide 2 u can definitely have thousands of hour because the combat, lore and maps are so good. And there is chaos waste too
Hey!
So I'm a vermitide 2 player (461 hours on v2 (most of it on solo q ( I know I know))) so you won't be surprised if i think you haven't pushed far enough lol. I remember giving the game a try until i reach level 15 with one of the character and then dropping it for 2 full years before coming back. What made me fall in love with the game is actually pursuing difficulty and challenge.
Loot isn't as important as you seem to think in the game and the skill necessary to go from a lower to a higher difficutly rises exponenstially. The higher level players you encountered on your runs would have probably dominated the map regardless of gear or hero power. I am not saying that allowing high level player to come and "ruin" your games isn't a flawed design of course. For exemples you seem to not be aware of dodges, which is THE central defensive mechanic of this game (it
was a bit painfull ot watch ngl lol).
The biggest flaw to accessibility of this game for me is the grind to level 30 on every character, making the entry requirement of the late game (aka the real game) way to long.
Regarding loot, getting max level 300 on all your items isn't as grindy and optimising propeties and perks isn't vital until you start to get bored of the officials difficulties and start to venture into modded difficulties (it gets insane).
Anyway I hope you find the time and motivation to give this gem a second chance :) (English isn't my fist language this was a good exercice for me hahaha)
I figured this was true, seeing as Deep Rock is much the same way. You start casual until you put in the time; that's life. Thanks for letting me know! The mission-to-mission is certainly fun, so I'm more than willing to give it a further try.
@@superdude10000 vermintide 2 veteran here (343 hours. had to go look it up) i agree with the original commenter that the game isnt the greatest while youre trying to get your characters to level 30. if you can make it up there, though, the loot issue isnt as much of a problem, because by then you will have gotten so much loot that you will stop opening chests unless it's something you may get a coveted red item from (the commendation chests from gaining levels are suprising good at this)
i laughed when you said the only respectable special is the assassin, because that just means you haven't been locked in a room with 5 rattling guns yet.
if you make it through the leveling process, then you can really start playing with talent and weapon combo builds on different careers. i think that's a well done part of the game.
once you do that, come find me in the chaos wastes. that's where the real fun begins.
Yeah the leveling process is not very fun in vermintide 2 unless you're playing with friends.
i have 1,291 hours on vermintide 2, and i just want to quickly correct that the end game of vermintide is getting the best hats for kruber
Only issue with your argument is that a game shouldn’t be the “real game” till after you reach end game
Vermintide's upbeat tone really starts to get much darker the higher in difficulty and skill capacity you go, it starts to lean more towards that grimmdark side, as the hordes never stop coming, the specials are relentless, and you begin to realise, _these are the endtimes, and the only end is humanity's extinction_
The combat is still wildly lethargic, but it goes from walking through hordes and savoring the approach of several dozen rats to dreading the sound of metal plates clanking around the corner, wondering if it's another stormvermin patrol or a warpfire thrower, there to strip half your health and leave half the hallway doused in flames
The feel changes from being a traveling mountain of ass kicking to coming out of each encounter thinking you got away by the skin of your teeth
Teammates: *pings patrol, cowering in their boots*
Me: *readies Grail Knight horizontal swing* EZ
Based on the DRG gameplay, I don't think this guy is a high difficulty enjoyer
@@jaemotoo and that's totally fair, though he also talks about GTFO and how difficult that is, which is fairly similar in difficulty from what I heard
I couldn't say for certain bc I've never played it, but sounded similar
I don't think i've ever been more anxious than playing VT2 on legendary. My pits were sweaty as hell and I was leaning forward in my seat trying to dodge. that shit is intense.
@@Zectifinand once you try cataclysm, you are swimming in rat-slave corpses and sweat
DRG has some of the best Devs i've ever seen and I think they are the main reason why the game is so good.
on god
this aged nicely
rock and stone!
And the game is just about to get a new update.
ROCK AND STONE, BROTHA!
Melee in vermintide has a few more things to it that you left out! Weapons can have combos, and these attacks usually either have a lot of cleave or armor piercing (or even push, if it's a shield weapon, like a shield and sword). Which means you can control what your attacks do. For instance, Heavy, Heavy, Light with the warrior priest's warhammer for cleave attacks, for dealing with hordes, light, light, heavy for single target damage and armor piercing, for Elites, Specials and Monsters
There's also the push attack. If you hold down the attack button while blocking, you'll follow the shove up with an attack. Some players even use this to boost their movement with weapons that thrust. Shoves/blocks are, in general, a good way to reset your combo and ensure that you don't get hit because you're just spamming light attack.
I'd honestly say this is the best first person melee I've experienced.
Also, while the homing arrows don't seem too interesting at first, it's because they're not meant to deal with hordes. They're perfect for specials (in fact they'll prioritize them)
Some characters are really good at crowd control (Mercenary, Zealot, etc) others are really good at putting down specials (Huntsman, Pathfinder) and some are really good at single target damage (Grail Knight, Bounty Hunter)
Not to mention the importance of talents and builds, also you should try the game out on higher difficulties. A blightstormer will completely ruin your day if you don't pay attention. The specials can combo each other and end your game fast. A packmaster grabs you in the middle of a horde, while a Warpfire thrower keeps your allies away from you (the fire shoves you back)
Or a blightstormer blocks an area that has cover while a Ratling Gunner guns your team down.
Also, while the loot system seems bad at first, and trust me, I shared that feeling, I avidly hate Destiny and what it has done to the RPG scene with that little number, the weapon itself and the talents matter more than the number! If you have a 250 item and a 300, but the 250 is better, use it, besides you can craft specific items and they'll be at a higher score.
Cool video, though.
Thanks for saying so! I knew I had a casual's perspective when making what I wrote, so I'm thankful you're letting me/others know what I couldn't know in just 10 hours of play. I appreciate it.
The topic of when it's worth switching your weapon is pretty complicated. A 50-point difference in power is pretty huge and that's when I would say you should salvage the lower power item to get materials to upgrade the higher power item and reroll its stats, but the type of weapon matters a lot. You can do a lot better with a low power weapon you're comfortable with than a high power weapon you've not used much (or at all). It's also the case that some weapons are just flat out better or worse even with the same power rating - Kerillian displays the most extreme range in this regard, as sword and dagger will obliterate everything, meanwhile elven axe is a total joke and will perform worse than a s+d half its power rating.
@@superdude10000 yes! what really made me take off in my hours logged for VT2 was when I started to memorize the direction different attacks would swing depending on their position in the chain. sometimes even altering the properties of the attack, meaning a light attack could do more damage to armored enemies than a heavy depending on when you initiated it in the chain, and when each weapon can have its own chains it leaves a lot to just be figured out.
a big thing I do dislike for the sake of it being harder for friends to join the game is that the perks take too long to unlock making a lot of the classes feel flat at the beginning so all my friends finish the campaign on recruit in a matter of 10 hours and just say "there's nothing to the game." as such I have maxed 3 characters only after 156 hours, including several x2 exp events.
(edit: I checked and the last 2 characters were actually level 29 so I more accurately am only able to make full builds for everyone right before 160 hours which is not great)
I'd like to particularly shed some light on the ability you seemed fairly disappointed by at 22:36, it's a taunt that causes most enemies to target you, which may sound bad however, it also gives you infinite stamina for the same duration allowing you to block all the attacks so they aren't hitting your squishier teammates (such as the wizard, huntsman, or assassin) then he also gains access to perks that incentivize him to take those hits by increasing the charge speed of your heavy attacks or increasing your damage for each attack blocked.
of course not all the career skills feel like showstoppers, some are more defensive or utilitarian but the whole point of a single character having multiple classes is so that anyone can try finding a playstyle they like (cheesy I know)
anyway, sorry for the text wall. maybe we can play sometime, I'm usually pretty good at not splitting from the team.
Vermintide always seemed like the perfect game for turboautists and it's why I'll forever keep it at arms length
I love Vermintide 2 with all my heart. I love the depth of the gameplay. And while I'll always hold a respect for V1, it really just doesn't scratch the same itch or expectations set in the sequel.
That being said, I really wish they'd do another remaster of old V1 maps and add an option to have the Red Moon Inn as our hub. I've grown find of the keep, but I miss having drunken slap fights with my friends. Lol
the (household rules that got less and less strict as more kids your parents had) is the most accurate statement ive ever heard, my parents wouldnt let me play any M games until I was in mid 7th grade and my little brother was only in 4th and he was already allowed to play Mortal Kombat and other M games
Feels a shame to not mention Payday, which had some direct inspiration from the l4d series like these games, even had a direct crossover with the l4d
I have never played it, is why I neglected to mention it. I just truly know nothing about it. Though GTFO is made by some of the same folks, it's somewhat in that lineage.
payday doesnt really fit here though. its a coop without really having to be coop, which he talks about in the first part of the video. payday doesn't force you to cooperate with each other unlike these games (idk about vermintide, never played)
in payday you can make do soloing on your own, really only three specials in payday can disrupt the solo which are cloakers, tasers, and snipers which are easily countered anyway unlike their original counterparts, cloakers can literally just be meleed with a shock weapon to cancel the kick (smoker tongues can also be slashed by melee in l4d but its way harder and more strict to time)
tasers can be easily shot + shockproof aced exists
you can tank sniper shots unless you're anarchist + all snipers have the same exact spawns in the map with not much variety
even in DSOD you dont have to cooperate much, unless ur 3 other teammates are vastly underpowered and doesn't have much knowledge on the game, you can still play the same way as you do with the lower difficulties.
@@disco1528just play PAYDAY The Heist and there you’ll experience the true L4D inspiration (or PAYDAY 2 on Xbox 360/PS3 or an older version of the game on PC)
That only really applies to payday 2. Payday: The Heist has a much bigger focus on cooperative play that's more akin to L4D rather than it's sequel@@disco1528
@@disco1528 That's just a problem with modern Payday 2. Early Payday 2 (before around Update 60) and Payday The Heist were heavily based on teamwork and cooperation with heavy emphasis on loadout diversity between each player and role specialization.
Payday The Heist's specials are almost entirely designed around teamwork, you can see this in the Taser or Cloaker. They were then directly ported to Payday 2 because back then, the game was centered around playing in multiplayer. Teamwork reliant enemies that can instantly shutdown all of your momentum have no place in an incredibly fast paced shooter like modern Payday 2. They're remnants from another era.
In Payday The Heist, you can't solo the highest difficulty (OVK 145+) unless you poured weeks into it. Unlike modern Payday 2 where you can just get a build of the internet and be brainless.
Conclusion: More people should play Payday The Heist (please it totally fuckin rules)
Oh man, GTFO is one of the most atmospheric games I've played. Awesome aesthetic, awesome coop experience, just good
I agree ! GTFO has some amazing aesthetic and level design such as a very dark room, a very foggy room, a very dark and foggy room, a slightly brighter room with very thick fog, a completely dark room with a bit of fog and my personal favourite : room with fog, but green.
DRG is by far my number one game of all time, it was the first one i got 1000 hours in and i plan on getting another thousand. I've played so much that I've memorised every cave shape in every biome and every monster sound. (also that but where you called the bulk detonator the most dangerous standard mob was somewhat painful even knowing you probable know otherwise)
Yeah, we all know that's the cave leech ;)
Rock and Stone Brother!
@@superdude10000I think he means the bulk is actually the 5th dwarf, he is always there to help you one shot a boss or a really big wave.
Wooo! Rock N stone 🪨🪨🪨
DID I HEAR A ROCK AND STONE!!
If you're seeing this around 4-5 months after this video's release: Darktide has released a complete class overhaul with new weapons, abilities, skill trees, levels, bosses, items, etc. It's a fantastic game now and the steam reviews speak for me if you don't take my word for it! I really recommend it!
Nice video. Honestly a beginner's perspective on VT2 is very much welcome. As someone who's been discussing Darktide a lot, I've noticed that whenever VT2 gets brought up it's always from a veteran's perspective, most people forget the issues that the game has that only affect beginners.
As for Darktide, while it's true that it's unfinished and has it's issues, I do feel people are way too harsh on it. DT has definitely made some strides in improving certain gameplay mechanics, and as a VT2 veteran that almost exclusively uses melee, I have to say that the improvements to ranged combat are superb, I wouldn't dream of spending so much as a single shot on a horde in VT2 as I feel the ammo is wasted, but in DT it feels rewarding.
I think Darktide is just really struggling right now with the amount of content and variation available to you. The environments, while looking really good and highly detailed, aren't distinct enough when multiple missions take place in the same area. The new update that drops in a week or so brings with it one new mission. The mission update before that brought 2, and before that one special mission. Darktide, as it is right now, is a fun game that lacks content to keep high level players on board. I myself maxed out my Zealot almost 80 hours ago, and while the Auric missions are a true test of your team's power, they're still the same missions with a few modifiers. The endgame doesn't feel rewarding, other than making and crafting better loot. It is brilliant fun in the moment, but it gets very samey the longer you play.
18.29
- Twin tailed comet showed upon the sky, hailing the end times - the end of the world. And it WILL end. There's no saving it.
- Ratman, the creatures that just yesterday were a myth, now ruined an entire city and slaughtered most of it population in a single night.
- When they were thwarted for the first time, they bounced back, built a portal to accursed north through which chaos touched barbarians of Norska are pouring in and destroyed another city.
- You're playing as a dwarf, who, after losing his wife in a mining accident, for which he had a partial blame, went on in exile on an impossible quest.
"Tone of the game is lighthearted and fun"
What?
It's kind of goofy if you know nothing about Warhammer lore and just have the campy Marvel-esque one-liners to go off of.
Kerilian: "The mystery of the Chaos Wastes... Who do you think created them?"
Kruber: "Frogs. I heard it was frogs. Really big frogs."
Bardin: "Doesn't sound far wrong, if you ask me."
Yeah, thats the lore, the actual tone is corny and fun
The health transition stages are "Healthy" (40-100)
"Injured" (2-39)
Then "Last leg" or whatever (1)
Hope this helps!
Also, iirc 1 health state activates only if you have been picked up, so if you use painkillers, get yourself taken down to 1 hp + temporary health you still are faster when painkillers wear off
44:22 "PRAY YOU NEVER FIND OUT" is the correct answer. gtfo's small enemies are tough. the big ones are monstrous. the bosses... nightmarish. and any one of them could be that faint noise you heard in the dark.
I was looking for this comment.
l4d1+2 didnt have and didnt need progression and i hope more games return to such basics one day
Progression to extend game lifecycle with an ovetstretched end goal or a viability to implement mtx 🤣. i dig it tbh, for me it makes the game meaningful, rewarding, players freedom sense of individuality, replayability, and variety.
Hope more games with an AI director.
@@R3TR0J4NIs this sarcasm
Yeah. I don't think it's going anywhere though.
I enjoy loot. But progression is definitely a harmful mechanic to entry, retention, and balance of games like this. It would be nice if loot took different forms than statistical increases to power. There are a few options there. One being going the TF2 route, Sidegrades and cosmetics. Another is story based. Say you get a hub you can Do Things in. Give things to NPCs, acquire cosmetic options for said hub. Progress storylines through fetch quests.
DRG lets you spend resources on in game alcohol. So that's cool.
IDK man. I don't see it changing in a positive way. The other is just much easier. Perhaps they'll learn how to scale things right.
@@potatoesstarch2376 yea it's oversaturated in live service looter shooters and arpgs. I never had an issue with progression systems regards coop survival and horde shooter genres, until I learn about B4B.
@@crypix I dig the progression system like from my previous experience from WWZ, DRG, and Vermintide 2 I mean.
Vermintide 2 - melee and blood
Deep rock galactic- unique maps + constant updates + best with friends or if like Minecraft
World war z- there’s no better feeling than killing a legit 200 zombies in a row
DRG and VT2 are some of my favourite games. Co op PVE are my favourite genre
Everyone always says GTFO is difficult, I bought it but I couldn't tell you how hard it is because my machine is legitimately not powerful enough to run it at a frame rate above 2 a minute.
Gtfo is really fair, I dont think about it being hard or easy, I think its more of a science, you have to know about everything in order to reliably complete maps, which most people struggle to do and often complete maps with cheer luck or number of attempts
No matter how bad Darktide may be, I will always love muh Ogryn Boi.
Thank the Emperor the game is getting a complete overhaul.
With the last career coming for VT2 too, hopefully the game will get the much needed support it needs.
It pains me a bit that Vermintide 1 is not talked about as deeply in videos like this specially with the great maps and moments even though Vermintide 2 amped up everything about it but the first game wasn't ever as popular
Ikr? Currently playing Vermintide 1 for the first time (just finished Garden of Morr) and it's a total blast. I think the main issues with V1's lack of popularity is the perma-online requirement despite having bot support and the fact that you can't set bot priority for solo play without mods. I play solo and was getting really sick of listening to the elf every single game and not getting to play with the bot combinations I wanted. I got the QoL modpack and the Different Bots mod and it's made a huge improvement.
Not to mention Verm 1's lighting and texture work were far superior. It felt a lot more horrific and atmospheric than Verm 2 in some spots. You can see in the Back to Ubersreik levels how much better the engine looked, especially in Garden of Morr.
Why they decided to go from nighttime and rainy levels to cheery countrysides for the launch roster I have no idea.
Oh, and the Red Moon Inn>>>>>>Ta'al's Horn Keep
Fatshark really dropped the ball with back to ubersreik only containing 3 maps, and they weren't even good ones. So many great maps that could and should have been ported to Vermintide 2 just locked behind the first game which is more or less dead now.
GTFO is the OG left 4 dead successor I was waiting for. it's incredible
Me with my Choked shotgun absolutly demoslishing scouts and giants
Gtfo is fucking awful, its my favorite game
@@AndreVBrI love that
"This game is terrible. I wholeheartedly love it."
Great 4 player hardcore(tactical?) survival co-op successor
@@minecraftsteve2504Sonic 06 fans
I’ve enjoyed my time with GTFO greatly, and been considering picking up DRG the more I realized it shared a core concept with GTFO. I think this video has finally sold me on it.
I look forward to cheering Rock and Stone with the lads soon.
Great video! Speaking of influence, it always seemed a bit weird to me that those competitive "extraction" type shooters like Tarkov never took cues from L4D. It could be a great twist on the genre, like 2 games of L4D playing against each other on the same map. Always fall through on the collaborative aspects though. Maybe I just haven't played the right one yet!
You should try hunt showdown. It sounds similar to what you're describing here
Playing Deep Rock Galactic with my friends for their first time was truly magical. The Nemesis spawned on the first non-tutorial mission. We heard the Nemesis do its usual spiel of "Help meeeee!". I only said "Oh shit, that's not good.". My friends thought there was a someone who needed to be rescued. I said "There's actually three that need to be rescued.". Hard cut to me soloing the Nemesis while everyone else is downed
I've been playing GTFO since Rundown 4, god I love it so much.
I've been playing since the alpha. Shame it'll be almost entirely dead unless you have a premade group when the end of life cycle finally completes. Might sound weird to say, but it's too much content for too small of a community
@@bbbbbbb51 i disagree; as it currently stands, the discord for the game and its LFG section are very active. My friend group was only comprised of 3 players for a while so we actually picked up a fourth during rundown 2 through 4, and it was a blast
@@bbbbbbb51 I disagree about it having too much content, but yeah the community is dying left and right. New players struggle to keep around no matter the approach I use, I can be the Group carry and they will take the game for granted, I can be a teacher and they will dislike that they dont have to learn anything, I can sit behind and watch them suffer but they will call the game bullshit and leave. Helping new people is a never ending battle
I cannot express how much i love Vermintide 2, I honestly feel like you got a raw deal not paying with a full party. I am not the leader of the VT2 community, but i have taught multiple people how to play & run them through several hours of unbridled enjoyment. I would be happy to host you, or just join and advise rather than carry. Ive only got 500 hours i think, but i definitely know how to teach the base & in depthschanics of it.
Everything about actually playing Darktide is great, everything else needs some serious work.
Discovering L4D Versus was a religious experience for me.
Yeah don't know why he didn't mention it, that became the game for everyone and gave it legs. Nobody was playing PvE after a few months. Dealing with player smart infected and learning how to do ambushes when it was your turn was a whole other skill ceiling.
Dude didnt even knew your video lasted 46 minutes
Felt natural. Truly shows the work! Congrats
Horde shooters are truly my favourite genre of all time. Well over 400 hours in L4D2, Vermintide 2, Darktide, DRG, I can't get enough of them
Fr, i have played them so much
@AndreVBr if you EVER want a guy to party with hmu man, I can't get tired of them
Unlocking all the classes in Vermintide 2 was such a satisfying motivator for me I barely thought about the grind.
As someone who plays a lot of these games.
Darktide has the best first person combat, S-tier design.
Darktide is the best co-op shooter since L4D2. But it is fair to say everything outside of the gameplay is behind other games.
Despite the video being released 2 months ago, if released now there might be a different take on it. Classes have entire, proper skill trees and the psyker class got an entire overhaul. Fatshark’s making progress at making the game better.
@@GOPerks-jo7mgno, deep rock is definitely better at every aspect including gameplay if not just because of it's variety and social features
@fartohuluous DRG is great in it's own way I don't really have any problems with it but the gunplay to melee gameplay in DT is unmatched. Other games start to feel slow after getting a taste for DT's higher difficulties with modifiers.
I am actually nausiated by how much people say Vermintide is better than Darktide, it just is not. I love the game but Darktide is just the developers learning from Vermintide and making a superior game.
"Vermintide is a melee game, don't try to make it something it's not"
*LAUGHS IN OUTCAST ENGINEER*
Vermintide 2 stoicly stays in my top 5 games - along w/ games like Halo 3, TF2, and Kane's Wrath.
It conquers not just the l4d genre but it is also the best co-op game I've ever played.
It makes me sad that there's no interest from Valve to make a L4D3. As you say, all the successors take different directions with the formula, so nothing hits quite like Left 4 Dead does (not necessarily for the worse, it's just different), and a Left 4 Dead 3 could have a lot to improve on the game. The successors show that there's so many more types of missions and objectives that one can take on, and L4D's pace still lends itself to creative encounters in simple situations, even if it's just crossing a bridge. To say nothing of technical aspects, like netcode. I don't believe we haven't had improvements here in over a decade, and boy can I see my ping fly when I am in a game.
Honestly Back 4 Blood was a really fun successor to L4D, the card system sucked on release but they fixed it a few weeks after release. Makes for great replayability to have shotgun healer, speedrun melee etc etc. I feel the hate the game got on release was just a lot of bandwagon due to the cherry picked crowbat video.
Me and my friend played the shit out of GTFO, for a whole section of the game it was just us two since our other friends didn’t like playing the game or didn’t have time. The most notable mention was a reactor rundown where we had to put in codes into a terminal while under attack, after each round of putting in codes we had to book it to grab ammo to resupply our sentry’s and us. It was the first level that we had to do 2-3 tries before beating it. Then there’s the evac where we had to book it across the whole map while under attack.
It’s honestly one of my favorite coop shooters but I totally get why people don’t like it since it’s a pretty hard game to both play and understand.
You should've put emphasis on "creators" of Left 4 Dead when you mentioned Turtle Rock, cuz it's very well known that L4D wouldn't be how it without Valve
Turtle Rock simply came up with the concept, Valve actually made it and turned it into something for the history books
Well, not only that... Only like 2 of the people at Turtle Rock were people who actually worked on L4D1/2.
Vermintide 2:Mastered melee combat and build diversity
DRG: Procedural generation and innovative gameplay mix
GTFO: Super hardcore for true Coop
No more room in hell: Unironically one of the best zombie coop games of all time, nails the classic Romero theme better than anything else.
Everything else died down and I honestly got bored of very fast (WWZ especially)
Same, omfg love NMRiH.
WWZ died down for me since the lack of updates .
To add, I think Helldivers 2 also captured the L4D-like gameplay a lot.
Ah, yes, a guy after my own heart. I sunk so many more hours into these AI Director co-op games than any others, it's truly the most replayable genre imo. Vermintide 2, Deep Rock Galactic, Left 4 Dead 2 being my favourite in that order
You have done a very good job describing and reviewing these games. And I agree on most of the points discussed. Just one thing about Vermintide 2. Its actually a skill based game first and foremost, the loot disparity between the different gear quality levels is negligible and by the time you are at the level cap, you will have no problem finishing any difficulty with subpar gear if you know what you are doing and the gear handicap wont be felt that much. The level grind to level cap is annoying though.
One of the best parts of Vermintide 2 is that once you hit level 30 with a character, it becomes more about experimentation with various perks and weapons. Crafting new weapons is never very onerous due to the salvage option and every build feels *mostly* viable. Also worth noting is that weapon levels cap at 300 power - so once there, you can keep your weapons and either upgrade or roll for better weapon perks.
As someone that mostly plays legend/cata, team comp become far more important than it would in recruit or veteran. Having a boss killer, hoard clearer, tank and ranger becomes such a fun experience if everyone plays their part. Ignore the end-game scoreboard. A dwarf iron breaker literally betters his team by blocking.
I love that game. Obviously.
Oh and the Chaos Wastes free DLC helps level the playing field for new players. It’s a rogue like where everyone starts at the same base power level. We helped my buddy level up there so we could play missions together.
44:25 As a fan of L4d and a HUGE fan of Deep Rock, I agree with this heavily. Deep Rock obviously has some level of inspiration from L4D, but I honestly hesitate to even consider it in the same genre of game. Outside the *EXTREMELY* vague description of "co-op horde shooter".
To me deep rock seems more like a succesor to helldivers in terms of its gameplay loop, design, and tone.
huh, that's weird, i'm a fond player of L4D2 and and i have enough hours in DRG to certifiably say i'm a greybeard!
@@glockenspiel604I don't know why it never occurred to me but you're 100% correct.
I know a lot of other Vermintide 2 vets have left their opinions but I wanted to comment as well. I've got about 400 hours in VT2 just for reference.
The "good" players that are running way ahead of you aren't doing so because of their gear score. Gear score certainly helps, and makes higher levels easier, but a high level player will almost never get hit. Now obviously nobody is perfect and people will get hit, but what I mean is a good VT2 player will block, dodge, interrupt, etc. the enemies very consistently which means they almost never get hit. This is really important at the higher difficulties because even the weakest rats that come in hordes will do half of your HP with one attack. So you legit CANT GET HIT. But then when these type of players go down to lower difficulties, its like playing on creative mode in minecraft. It's literally a cake walk because they're used to much harder enemies and levels. So, basically my point is just that your observation about how important/grindy the gearscore is, isn't accurate. A great VT2 player could probably solo the highest difficulty level with no gear equipped if they really wanted to challenge themselves, it's just more important to learn the game mechanics and enemy attack patterns so you know what you can dodge/block.
Also wanted to mention that you said something along the lines of "the endgame of VT2 is just getting the best weapons" but that's also not true. Most VT2 players like me with hundreds of hours are in it for the challenge. The first 2 difficulties are pretty easy overall. The next 3 get significantly harder and I personally am striving to beat every level on Cataclysm, which is the highest difficulty. If you look at some of the most devoted VT2 players, Cataclysm wasn't hard enough for them, so people made mods that make the game even significantly harder than the highest difficulty. I think this just shows that the late game of VT2 is more about the challenge and not really about the loot. The loot will come by itself while you're playing the game. I never felt like I was grinding my ass off to get the best weapon or armor. Just every once in a while I'd get a really good weapon drop and get excited.
Man, Vermintide 2 has such a amazing vibe to it. I don't like the Warhammer universe, but the Vermintide gave me some LOTR feels and I love the absolute end of the world on the maps. I also choosed dwarf and boy is it fun
Edit. Also, I forgot how amazing the OST for Vermintide is. Absolutely slaps
You "choosed" dwarf?
You didnt "chose" dwarf?
Just recently found your channel. Honestly surprised at the size given the quality. Nothing new about smaller channels having potential, but your videos are to the same standard as a lot of quality channels. And you’re hitting it right out of the gate as well it seems, your videos are relatively recent and there’s not many of them.
Looking forward to seeing what you make next and rooting for you when you start getting into the 100k level
Vermintide has the funniest enemies though and the best dialoge too.
left 4 dead is a "feel good" game for me, I can boot it up with a friend and have a blast and feel relaxed afterwards.
GTFO... anxiety simulator mixed with a dread simulator. Being 1 hour in to a mission and not knowing how long until you finish or if you will at all gives me a heighten risk of heart failier, But I just cant stop playing it
Left 4 dead knew what was up. No perks. No levels. No real character customization. You start from 0 and work your way up every time.
I wish you had talked about Evolve. Because it had some really good elements. It showed promise and while the game wasnt great it was fun for a couple rounds with friends. It's monetization sucked and was the start of a new era of monetization but the framework of a good game was there.
I'd love to see you explore what worked and what didnt of Evolve.
I loved Evolve, so believe me, I could do that. Just wasnt really in scope for this video. I was mostly meaning I wouldnt talk about Back 4 Blood; Evolve was never on the table. Maybe in the future though!
As someone who tried GTFO and enjoyed it, I would also say this just as a warning. There will be times when 2h of progress gets taken away in an instant. And remember to learn what you can from your death.
Huh. From what I remember, GTFO used to have the mission roster be seasonal and once that time passed, so did those missions. I guess that changed in the intervening months/years?
Likely so, because people hated it, because a fun set of missions would be replaced with "screw you lol beat this to unlock the non-trash"
also probably because of lore too, since some terminals in different rundowns that would be eliminated have info on the story of the game, so newer players have no idea what was going on
As someone with 400hrs on vermin tide 2 I can definitely say that the specials who are designed to incapacitate you will tickle you at the difficulty that you are playing, with hordes being more dangerous as a result. I would say champion difficulty is where the game starts to be more balanced(and have friendly fire) , whereby your skills are starting to be tested. And legend difficulty is where you have pretty much learned everything there is to learn. Getting hit by a single common enemy in legend does around 20dmg. And the vermintide variant of the hunter from l4d2 at legend difficulty can easily down you in around 8 seconds from 100hp,
As one of the 5 Darktide fans out there, I do want to address some of your comments. First off, the game is in absolutely in a worse state than Vermintide and needs more content. That is uncontestable. I will note that Fat Shark can learn from their mistakes, however. Difficulty in Darktide is far less gated from the get go. By your second mission you can be playing Difficulty 3 which is a really solid place for new players to learn the ropes. Specialists are threatening so you need to work together or learn the patterns. Rewards are decent so you can start building a cache of crafting mats. But the difficulty is also low enough that with the revolving door of gear you have you can experiment and play with them without having to worry about tweaking with gear rolls.
Something else to mention is Darktide is far more of a shooter than Vermintide or pretty much any of the other games in this video. In Difficulty 3 and below there are enemies with guns but they don't really do much damage unless you play really dumb. In Difficulty 4 and especially Difficulty 5 even a single shooter brutalize your health pool. All of a sudden the game becomes just as much about dealing with hordes of zombies and the Specialist spawns as it is about being able to clear out rooms of gunman while trying to avoid health damage as much as possible. It's a very different dynamic that catches a lot of players off guard but is also what makes the game stand out from it's peers.
So, in summery yes the moment to moment gameplay is amazing (as you mentioned) and the gear progression needs help (as you mentioned). Also, while Fat Shark did smooth out the difficulty curve they introduced a brand new aspect to fuck it up with (which you sort of mentioned in the Vermintide section about that's game difficulty). Basically, the Tide games are similar but there is more separating them than just a new coat of paint on the setting which was enough for my inner pedantic nerd to activate.
P.S. I actually find Darktide funny. It's a fucked up setting but funny because of how fucked up it all is. Also, Hollowette and Melk on Ascension Riser 31 is hilarious but that might just be a sign of poor taste lol
Oh yeah, I've heard many people say that if you take Warhammer 40k seriously, you're doing it wrong. How can a setting with Noise Marines not be at least partially a joke, and IN on the joke as well?
Another Darktide fan here. I pretty much have to agree with you on all points. The game still needs work, but the actual gameplay loop is fun. I also like the fact that long range and melee combat are things you have to properly manage. That, as well as just how sadistic the AI direct can be with its enemy combination choices, is pretty much why I actually have been enjoying the combat in Darktide more than Vermintide 2 (though I do still really like Vermintide 2). I also have to agree that Darktide does a better job at pushing players through higher levels of difficulty. Malice difficulty (level 3) is pretty much the make or break level: if players haven't figured out teamwork and fundamental combat skills by this point, they're going to have a hard time, and in Heresy difficulty (level 4), they'll get outright annihilated If they haven't figured things out. And yeah, Darktide is rather funny. I think that's just owing to the whole Warhammer 40k universe though: It's so over the top, you can't help but laugh at it (Gotta love the Inquisition motto: Innocence proves nothing). The new auric difficulty modifiers Fatshark recently added in are just as insane. Been loving every minute of it.
@@superdude10000 Yo, so in case you haven't heard Darktide has a major major update at the beginning of the month that added skill trees to every class that adds serious depth to the build crafting. It's not Path of Exile or anything, but it's created at least 3 unique play styles for every class. Endgame progression is still the same, but now there's enough variety and enough builds that you can chase all sorts of easy to get "good enough" gear to make different builds work.
Also I can now cosplay a Commissar and yell at people to heal them.
Also ogryn has a frag grenade. This should scare you.
Vermintide was an unexpected extremely fun experience! So glad I discovered it way back when it came out even tho I had no idea what a Warhammer game was as I never heard of it. L4D2 is my favourite game since the day of release and Vermintide 1&2 are my 2nd favourite titles in this genre.
I'm shocked at how underrated this channel is tbh
7:00 Jokes on you, I always remember the sound that a Big Daddy makes… cuz it’s the sound of the Horde, through the power of mods lol
God, GTFO is such a fire game. The feeling of nailing a level is unexplainable.
especially solo. The group i play with is a little sluggish to join, so i find myself running through by myself a lot and the tension rises quickly.
One thing to note about Vermintide 2 is that you can eventually unlock orange and red weapons items which have an extra ability. These include things like getting extra attack speed after a crit or your headshots returning your ammo. Red weapons also have maxed out stats, allowing you to reroll only the stats you want, rather than the percentages.
So. It's been a minute, and I've seen some common complaints that I'd like to address in a central place (almost like that's why the pin comments exist or something, i dunno)
1.) "Why didn't you talk about Payday?" I have literally never played Payday, it wasn't on sale when I was writing this, and none of my friends wanted to try it, unlike with Vermintide 2 where we all jumped on together. That's the only reason Payday isn't mentioned. For the observant among you, you may notice I had no prior experience with Vermintide before this, so why did I bother with it unlike with Payday? That's because I bought Darktide when it originally came out ($60) and found out it wasn't great at that time. So I wanted to try what I was told was the better version, Vermintide 2. Speaking of...
2.) "You're a dirty Vermintide casual who gets a lot wrong." Correct! I don't think either this opinion or MY opinion is wrong, per se, just my understanding of the mechanics in this video was undercooked and I am speaking purely from the first 20 hours of someone playing Vermintide, which is to say, I'm playing the worst part of Vermintide. I've had loads of endgame Vermintide players give me the skinny on some mechanics I've missed, and how the upper levels changes things. The loot becomes less of an issue, once you get one character to max level it becomes easier to grind the others, my lack of dodging proves I was/am a casual (true), and you WILL learn to respect those special enemies at higher difficulties. All of this is true and fair. There's a depth to the mechanics that I just can't see from this deep in the pit, and I need to spend time climbing out of it. Nobody denies this: Vermintide is a game where you have to drudge a bit to get to the fun part. DRG is the same way; you start in a weaker state with less tools, then the game slowly gives you more as you level. This serves to not overwhelm you with mechanics, but it also means the worst version of the game is the one you get introduced to first. Push through, and you will make it to the other side that so many people super adore. Vermintide does a poor job of justifying itself, in my opinion. As I said in the video, and have been told by others: bring people with you and do it together. There's a lot of fun to be had after the grind (and also during it, but you have to like the lesser version to get to the greater, y'know?).
2.5) "You look like a casual in general." Don't pretend to know me because you've seen me play a couple of games. Playing DRG on Haz 5 doesn't make for a readable experience, so I didn't record Haz 5. Even at Haz 4 (what I recorded), I found a lot of the footage to be unreadable camera shake, so I had to cherry pick even at that difficulty. As for Vermintide, it wouldn't let me play at higher levels (and to be frank, if I did play at those higher levels, I would've just lost since I didn't have a handle of mechanics). And like, GTFO. GTFO, dude. If I belabor this point for too long, it'll sound like I have something to prove, so I will just stop it with letting you know this really isn't the case (with shooters at least).
3.) "The Big Daddy is super memorable, what the hell are you talking about?" To be clear, I PERSONALLY didn't remember what Mr. Bubbles sounded like. I personally think that Mr. Bubble's combination of wails and moans aren't as evocative as a Smoker's coughing, Hunter screeches, or the Jockey's odd laughter, but that's just my opinion. I chose the B.D. specifically because they were recognizable, rather than choosing say, a random soldier from a Call of Duty. A mistake in hindsight, given how passionate some people are about Bioshock, but what can you do. You like and you learn. Also, some people are arguing against me like I'm saying Bioshock's sound design is bad or the game is bad in general. I AM NOT SAYING THAT, that would be insane. I'm saying I don't find Mr. Bubble's sounds memorable, is all.
4.) "Back 4 Blood/EVOLVE are fine actually." Sure. I won't yuck your yum, but I hated Back 4 Blood's card system a lot. I won't get into it (I dedicated a page of the script to it), but I think it's bad design, how they laid it out and how it affects progression. Evolve... that's a different story. I think Evolve would be considered good if it were made in today's Games as a Service landscape, but it came out 2 years in advance of the model as we now know it and couldn't take advantage. It paywalled most all of the content, and was too repetitive without that fresh stream of content the way that Fortnite tends to do it. This argument is especially ironic for me, because I loved Evolve. Y'all are arguing with the wrong person, I wanted that game to rule as much as the rest of you.
5.) The ever common, "Video Game W doesn't deserve to be on this list for reasons XYZ." That's just, like, your opinion, man.
These videos are my opinions. My tone makes me sound like I'm saying it with absolute authority as if it's the truth (that's the autism), but it's not. It's my opinion. Thanks, love you
👍
I like this guy
Just saying that a little more research would greatly improve your videos. If you love this type of games, why wouldn't you try playing more of them?
@@machetas I mean. I did talk about four of these game types (commented on seven), and this video is longer than all my others by more than 10 minutes. I was already worried about time in what I have. I did do a lot for this one, I think. I'm not sweating Payday. Maybe I'll try them when Payday 3 comes out, I think I heard that's a thing?
actually amazing payday 2 WASN'T on sale when making the video
forever mad at the shade thrown at bioshocks big daddy within the first 10 mins of this video
The reason we never get a game that is number 3 by VALVe is actually because of people boycotting Left 4 Dead 2.
The only bad thing about Vermintide is that you have to put in a whole lot of time in order to really get into the meat of the game because the real fun part of it is when the game goes from small number increases and becomes a game revolving around what builds you do. That is why I enjoy it because it changes vastly when you sink time into it to the point where you get stuck on the higher difficulties and say "What am I doing wrong?" and then you figure out it is not the numbers because no matter how lucky you get it does not make a difference and then you explore other weapons, careers, and traits.
Forgot to mention as well, the main reason why you get stuck is because eventually power numbers do not go high enough to be significant so it will try to make you get creative or find synergies
The transition from left 4 dead 2 background music to deep rock galactic background music was fantastic!
The beginning of vermintide may be tedious because you're just going from weapon to weapon but once you get to the 300 gear level and at most level 30, you get free reign on what weapons you want to use as the gear level is almost guaranteed to be 300.
Rock and Stone!!
ROCK AND STONE FOREVA!
FOR ROCK AND STONE!@@superdude10000
DID I HEAR A ROCK AND STONE!!!
the bulk detonator has a unique sound if it’s far away and is digging to you btw
One thing that you forgot to mention about GTFO, and EVERYONE should know this going in. The missions get LONG, some won't be too bad, like 20 to 30 minutes but boy do they get stressfully long at points. My longest run so far was just over 2 1/2 hours long, and we were not even that deep into the rundown. For my group of friends GTFO is a weekly thing we do, and we do 1, maybe 2 missions and then stop cause that stress builds up, and builds fast, and boy do I love it!
Some stuff for V2 they don't teach you in the tutorial
If you hold attack while blocking, you do a push hit, where you push and do a unique hit different from your light and heavy attack
You can hold block while reviving a teammate so you can be guarding as you revive him
Some weapons have a unique attack that requires another button to use
and that's mainly it
GTFO's tank "Pray you never find out"
Darktide is in a really good spot now, would play it over Vermintide or Deep Rock Galactic anyday (I've played all 3 a notably amount)
Minor complaint but who doesn't remember the sounds the big daddy do? Theyre so iconic
I got shivers at the music starting at around 13:00. Perfect forshadowing to the dwarven awesomeness to come
Heyo!
Also one of the Vermintide 2 people here and have a good amount of time in it (tend to stick away from legendary and cata when I don't have the regs with me) but as I think a bunch of others have already said the biggest thing in vermintide is getting experienced and learning the game over power levels. Character levels and perks do make a BIG difference though once you understand what they do but similarish to deep rock party roles are a big thing regarding class choice, weapon choice, and even the perks on your gear as especially at the higher difficulties your group needs to be balanced so everyone can deal with different things or the game will kick your teeth in. For example the big things are armor piercing, raw damage, crowd control, range, speed, and any special riders on your weapon like for example weapon and shield has a larger block/push radius and also has the benefit of being able to block bullets from ratling guns so your party members with armor piercing ranged can put them down while you tank.
I suggest you get back into Darktide. I've enjoyed the game as of late, been addicting so far. They've fixed a lot of the game and allowed for more variety of gameplay options. Some fun and interesting shit with how the weapons work now since before it was catering to the meta. Weapons feel nicer now and character feel more fleshed out with a purpose. Vets are squishy but scary characters, ogryn are crowd pleasers, zealots are the distractions, and psykers pack a punch to the right foe. Fun ass game now, hated having the play it 29-49 fps then, but now it's got a consistent frame rate and hasn't crashed on me for a few months now.
Is it still full of mtx?
@@bbbbbbb51Prices have been adjusted to be less predatory but the mtx shop is still there of course. They did however add a new vendor that sells a bunch of proper cosmetics for non paid currency as well as a number of new challenges made to be completed easily that unlock class cosmetics.
I think it's MTX but I don't know. One thing I hate about this game is that options are limited. I have 7.1 surround sound on it though@@bbbbbbb51
@@bbbbbbb51It never really was, the only mtx in the game is the premium cosmetics store
Vermintide 2 vet of only 300 hours. I'm going to be honest, I've basically not played on even Champion in a really long time. But to say the difference in difficulty is massive, is an understatement. In Legend you become acquainted with "overheads". You probably got hit by them plenty times and didn't even notice it was a different attack, but on Legend and worse, Cataclysm, you can very easily be one-shot by an overhead if you aren't paying attention. Getting swarmed starts to mean that you will be chipped away helplessly if you don't know what you're doing.
And everything, in general, is designed in such a way that once you get to Champion or higher, you are fighting for your life with every combat encounter. You can get good enough to know how to oneshot your foes, or stunlock them, and even avoid their attacks entirely. But even with maxed out equipment, if you can't keep track of all your enemies, you quickly will be blindsided and die. The endgame of Vermintide 2 is a slaughterfest, guts galore, a brawling game as you tango with the bosses, and without warning it sometimes becomes the fight for your life. With everybody put against you, and a single lapse in concentration will get you killed.
And honestly? It just goes to show how only having played on Veteran versus beaten Cataclysm can chance your perspective on all the classes. Smokebomb? Yeah that's not even Ranger Veteran's ace in the hole.
I'm no professional at Vermintide, by no means, but each class has a distinct job in the group that they fulfill. Roleplay as an AC-130, become a ninja, or even just a tried and true tank class. Some classes are better at killing the bosses, and some better at killing hordes of tiny men.
Honestly you didn't even mention berserker classes, which take "melee focus" to "haha no more ranged weapon". You don't even get a gun, just a second melee slot so you can bring two different swords. One big sword for dropping onto the heads of Chaos Knights, and one sword with a shield for dancing in crowds of rat slaves.
I disagree with your opinions about Darktide, but obviously respect your thoughts on them. Darktide is, mechanically speaking a better game than Vermintide is. It helped hone and master the hybrid combat which vermintide introduced.
It took a few stumbles, such as lack of classes (This is changing with it's October update) but from a sheer gameplay pov, Darktide evolved Vermintide's system. My two cents is all. Great video though. :)
As someone who has sunk thousands of hours into vermintide you make a very good point and it's a huge issue for the game. The end game has so much depth and nuance to the combat but 90% of players will never experience it because they burn out on the loot and level grind on lower difficulties and shelve it. I actually quit the game myself less than 30 hours in and it wasn't until a coworker convinced me a couple of years later to pick it up again. I told him I liked souls-like games for the difficulty curve and said vermintide wasn't challenging enough to hold my interest and he laughed and said I had no idea, looking back now he was very right.
I think another game you could have put on the list is space hulk deathwing. Its in the 40k universe and you play as a group of space marines clearing out a broken starship filled with hordes of tyranids, there are a couple special enemy variants, and the bulk common enemy is a melee attacker. Also cooperative is important
Good news, Darktide got an overhaul with it's class system. This may not convince people that don't like core issues like the progression, but if you like the gameplay it's much more polished.
Darktide may yet escape its purgatory soon with its console release and class overhaul. Seems this will be the "leaving the very obvious early access state we didnt say was early access" patch... If it's good atleast. It'll definitely have the kinks to work out of itself still but it's definitely gonna get me back onto it for a whole lot longer again as the combat is insanely good and having more substance to back it is exactly what I have been needing.
It's definitely a shame it released the way it did though, FS management is real rough, hoping for the best.
We're the same age and I also first played a Left4Dead(2) game at 13. Quickly became one of my favorite games, next to Minecraft. Sometime last year I found Deep Rock Galactic. It instantly filled that same spot L4D sat in years ago. The procedural caves were a nice touch on the genre. Not only that, the devs are saints and genius'. Pretty much you work for everything you want in the game, and every single cosmetic thing is optional and free aside from DLC. You dont even need to rank up your weapons if youre good enough. There is several ways to play the game per gun, per dwarf. So if youre tired of using one gun, you can completely change the combat feel of the game on the same character. DRG is also made in such a way that using 1 of each dwarf on a mission is the best balance in the game. Missing one type of dwarf leaves an obvious void in the flow of a mission. Even then, its still satisfying playing with 4 engineers or 4 drillers.
Also, I completely agree with GTFO being on this list. Its so hard to play/get into though because its a legitimately hard game. Even more so than L4D and DRG, you NEED teamwork. I havent played it much solely because I didnt have people to play with (dont think it had open lobbies like DRG at the time). I absolutely loved the concept though, a stealth take on the genre is something I didnt know I wanted until it existed. I should revisit the game one of these days.
One thing ill never understand about people who look back at Lfd2 is that, why does it need to be modernized?
Back 4 blood is proof that lfd's model worked
On top of that, the fact left 4 dead is still highly played proves that it doesn't need to be modernized.
It doesnt need progression. Doesnt need advanced movement. Doesnt need aim down sights.
It just needs to be polished, well made, and fun.
B4b isn't even a bad game it being treated like trash actually pisses me off
I remember when Rundown 4 originally dropped and we had a room with 7 scouts milling about... we actually killed them all without alerting any of them (Hammers ftw, its all they had in the early-release in terms of melee😅), but the level of stress we had... sheesh
Anyways yeah scouts are "easy" compared to what may come your way towards the end of rundowns and later rundowns (they're finished after Rundown 8 releases, working on a new game, and Rundown 6 just re-released too. They used to end the availability of Rundowns when introducing new ones, but over the last year they've gone through re-releasing them all in leading up to the final Rundown).
Awesome to see someone spreading the love for GTFO. The game is great and deserves to be seen!
I really like Chaos warriors in Vermintide, their warcries, sound design, their power.
Slaying a horde and hearing hard stomps, echoing, slowly coming towards you, and he calls straight to you "I AM COMMING FOR YOU ELF", when I hear chaos warriors, no matter where I am in a fight, I always run straight to them, kerilian (my character) yells out "Come, scunner! My disdain alone will fell you!" and I have an amazing 1 on 1 fight it's sooo fun blocking, dodging
something to note about the devs of back 4 blood , turtle rock , is that they were ONE of the devs of left 4 dead not THE devs of left 4 dead , as far as i know both left 4 dead games took multiple teams of not only game developers but composers and even stuntmen to do the motion capture for some of the common infected
L4D 2 suffered from coming out so soon after the first. I truly think it would have benefitted from another year of development. That said, Valve was on their way towards being done with making games, so I guess we're lucky we got it at all.
Your story about your older cousins and them playing Left 4 Dead totally reminds me of my experience with games too. My older cousins had Xbox games (I only had a Wii and DS) but when I saw them playing Halo Reach and Modern Warfare 2, I really wanted those games. Being introduced to those games "for older kids" allowed me to eventually get into Steam and thats where I found Left 4 Dead and the other great Valve games like Team Fortress 2.
With darktide the games fun and has a fantastic set of core systems from the combat, animations, enemy designs, setting and music but falls short on replayability after a few hours. It will get better as thats what fat shark does but right now give it a year before buying.
DT has amazing music.
I will say this for Vermintide, you respect the specials on higher difficulties. It goes from minor annoyance to instant death Champion and above.
For me I played it solo till I got to level 30 then started playing on Legend. That’s when I started having fun. Champion and above is where the game feels right with all perks for a career. It’s also here you can do the weapon crafting with some ease and design a class around what you want to do, IE Armor Specialist, monster killer, horde clear, or just surviving.
You did a great job at selling GTFO, I never liked cooperative shooters but the mechanics and the idea behind GTFO sounds super interesting.
**Goes through hell**
"You just crossed the street."
vermintide may be a melee focused game, but if you get a good drakefire pistol build on dwarf with the big axe n shield, you can just play a ranged focused game lol
and it may be about replacing weapons, but as you get higher end weapons you dont really replace em anymore