Would love to see you do a qs165 v2 or even the new qs165 10kw rated version they just came out with. Not saying it’s better but would just really like to see an honest comparison and you all seem to be the most honest bunch of them all so far. Keep up the great work 🤙
🤣🤣🤣🤣 Don't know would have to find a stupidly good battery to do it. Would properly burn the controller before the motor 🤣 like where your heads at though 😝🤘
My ko controller arrived first and the bike ripped w stock motor and chi 60 max. Adding the ko motor made a big difference. The thing is an absolute weapon now.
What happend with your old video when you said the ko had no top speed and you were going back to the surron motor and bac controller? Can you explain? You have one video basically saying the ko set up sucks and one video showing it smashing the surron motor.... ??
stock sur ron motor saturation happens around 450-500 phase amps from people testing. It's a good motor for what it is. I'm sure the KO is very nice (for that price, it better be), but honestly ... you'll only really get the benefits with prolonged and repeated full throttle runs. I run a 18KW setup with a nuc 24f. 500 ph amps (max for the nuc), and an ebmx 72v 42ah battery. I have to actually consistently do hard accelerations from a stop to get the motor to go over 110 deg (where i start reducing power). Like 10 runs back to back. I get it. You like the product, and i'm sure it's a very nice product, yet ... niche. If you need that kind of acceleration, i think shorter gearing is the much cheaper option. Sure, the sur ron motor might not last forever ... but then again ... i can buy 2.5 sur ron motors for one ko motor.
@@jayjay6782 It won't pull harder, though. It might produce more torque at a different RPM, but ... 18kw is 18kw. The only advantage MIGHT be if you go for the MX version, which is low KV/high torque constant. In which case, you will produce more torque below 1000 rpm or so, but then the motor won't perform at higher RPMS. If you put 18KW into either one of these motors, nearly 18KW will come out of them as torque. The efficiency numbers of these motors are within 2-3% of each other. The KO motor will be able to sink more phase amps (probably), but the sur ron motor can also sink enough to run 15KW or so without too much loss in efficiency, The difference is at which RPM it can do it. A problem ... which can be solved with gearing.
@@jayjay6782 Settle down, sunshine. If you spin a motor faster than what it is designed for, backemf will be the limiting factor. That's why you see power drop off when you try to spin it too fast. That's because the controller cannot generate a high enough voltage to overcome the inductance of the coils. In other words, the power is not making it into the coils, and the efficiency doesn't change. "20kw" means nothing on it's own. It's about where, and for how long through the rev range you can dump that amount of power into it. In simple terms, it's how many phase amps you can get the motor to consume before it spins up to an RPM where backemf limits you. Aka that max efficiency number you talk about. During, and only during this window will you have to deal with magnetic saturation (not taking into account field weakening). And yes, the limits for the KO motor are undoubtedly higher, but this either only really matters for a short amount of time in the case of low KV, high torque, or you flatten the curve with high KV windings, which means you will lose torque down low, but you can keep dumping phase amps into the motor longer. It all depends on how the motor is wound, the number of pole pairs, the static field strength, etc. Either you lower the KV and up your torque constant, or you do the opposite. There is no magic here. It's kind of like having a 100 hp diesel engine vs a 100 hp gas engine. Both make 100 hp. The diesel has more torque, but it can't spin as fast, while the gas engine has less torque, but it revs higher and continues to make it's torque for much longer. Power is just a function of torque over RPM. Insulting people personally is a poor way to mask your ineptitude. Try making some actual counter arguments instead.
@@progressive_e sick man like I say it looks like home and very similar terrain that I ride the other side of the world 🌎 keep pushing the videos out nice to get some actual tech info 👍 I reckon I'm jumping on the ko wagon for Xmas but I'll just be buying a nano controller for the stock motor and keeping things robust with a slightly higher than stock power
This should be enough to silence the KO haters. Agree KO is not for everyone but right now no other better alternative to KO if you want the best performance upgrade for surron. Great content guys👌
@Mtlmtl Qc I had bac4000 and 8000 before I upgrade to KO. I was so frustrated that after few kilometers my speed slows down significantly because of motor overheating. I never experienced that on KO
@Mtlmtl Qc got you but my point is was not happy with bac4k and 8k on surron motor. All my frustration from that set up KO has solved it. I guess coming from stock customer should go straight to KO. I bought my bac8000 for 15000usd so it's more expensive than KO plus 1200usd for bac4000. KO controller is 2300usd factory specs
Hey mate, it's the phase amps that usually kill the motor more than the DC amps. I'd probably say 220Max DC amps would be the upper limit. So anything under that would be fine. As far as phase amps, depending on your riding, anytime from 430 to 550 if your planning to ride hard. You can definitely go more than these numbers for very short burst too.
@@progressive_e I copied your KO nano tune to my Talaria sting Pro KO controller and stock motor. Works great and hauls ass. Controlled and smooth surprisingly. Smoother than stock. Feels much faster than what I had tuned in before. Thank you very much!
@@brendanflegle3326 that's awesome to hear man! I've actually got a different tune for a stock motor that works better if you'd like to reach us on insta👍👍
I see where you’re coming from with it not being a fair test, it would kinda be like comparing two cars where one requires 87 octane fuel and the other 93 but putting 87 in both. The 93 octane engine is only going to screw itself up. But I think that’s the point of this video, just to be informative that you can’t run 20 kW through a stock Sur Ron motor instead of being a comparison between the two.
thinking about it wrong. It's like if you had two different car motors and one guy said "I can run 500 horsepower" and the other guy said "I can run 500 horsepower" 1 motor is built for it the other motor isn't. Then running that horsepower and seeing which one last. Hope that helps you understand 😝🤘
Awesome video, you should probably reach out to Suronster on youtube, he just put out a new video, and he is having some issues with his KO setup, maybe you could help him out.
They have helped out so many from the community already. They don't get paid to help, unfortunately. You should go help your neighbors rake their lawns, for free 😉😂😝 I'm just giving you a hard time. Please accept this solely as a joke brotha 🤘🤘 they are amazing people who I'm sure would love to help!!
@@BedSheetBooty Yeah I'm just mentioning it as Suronster is one of the biggest Surron youtuber out there, so if they want their channel to grow way faster which they been trying to do, helping him will most likely boost their channel by a lot if he mentions them helping him. But I get what you are saying.
Thanks legend I'd love the opportunity to help Surronster but I know KO have him covered 👍 Definitely been helping allot of people out! It's honestly 50 msgs plus a day! I just want people to have a good experience with real information on the Surron 🤙 Honestly really appreciate your support! Jared
@@christianwilliams1136 totally agree! My comment was completely meant for humor! These things are hard to translate from humor in person, over to the internet. I appreciate you having a good sense of humor back 🤘
Would love to see you do a qs165 v2 or even the new qs165 10kw rated version they just came out with. Not saying it’s better but would just really like to see an honest comparison and you all seem to be the most honest bunch of them all so far. Keep up the great work 🤙
Yeah man will look into it 😜
Thanks, gents! Love the content, and thanks for the testing. Next test: can we actually abuse the KO motor enough to burn it?! :)
🤣🤣🤣🤣 Don't know would have to find a stupidly good battery to do it. Would properly burn the controller before the motor 🤣 like where your heads at though 😝🤘
@@progressive_e :)🤘
I saw a guy doing a top speed test ko vs the stock motor the motor was still overheating just much less
@@je7647 interesting. Can you link to that video?
@@1917VIL also would like a link to that?
My ko controller arrived first and the bike ripped w stock motor and chi 60 max. Adding the ko motor made a big difference. The thing is an absolute weapon now.
Good stuff man
What happend with your old video when you said the ko had no top speed and you were going back to the surron motor and bac controller? Can you explain? You have one video basically saying the ko set up sucks and one video showing it smashing the surron motor.... ??
Go through and watch all our videos on KO, it slowly got better and better as KO kept bringing out new hex file updates.
stock sur ron motor saturation happens around 450-500 phase amps from people testing.
It's a good motor for what it is. I'm sure the KO is very nice (for that price, it better be), but honestly ... you'll only really get the benefits with prolonged and repeated full throttle runs.
I run a 18KW setup with a nuc 24f. 500 ph amps (max for the nuc), and an ebmx 72v 42ah battery. I have to actually consistently do hard accelerations from a stop to get the motor to go over 110 deg (where i start reducing power). Like 10 runs back to back.
I get it. You like the product, and i'm sure it's a very nice product, yet ... niche.
If you need that kind of acceleration, i think shorter gearing is the much cheaper option.
Sure, the sur ron motor might not last forever ... but then again ... i can buy 2.5 sur ron motors for one ko motor.
@@jayjay6782 It won't pull harder, though. It might produce more torque at a different RPM, but ... 18kw is 18kw.
The only advantage MIGHT be if you go for the MX version, which is low KV/high torque constant. In which case, you will produce more torque below 1000 rpm or so, but then the motor won't perform at higher RPMS.
If you put 18KW into either one of these motors, nearly 18KW will come out of them as torque.
The efficiency numbers of these motors are within 2-3% of each other.
The KO motor will be able to sink more phase amps (probably), but the sur ron motor can also sink enough to run 15KW or so without too much loss in efficiency,
The difference is at which RPM it can do it.
A problem ... which can be solved with gearing.
@@jayjay6782 Settle down, sunshine.
If you spin a motor faster than what it is designed for, backemf will be the limiting factor. That's why you see power drop off when you try to spin it too fast. That's because the controller cannot generate a high enough voltage to overcome the inductance of the coils. In other words, the power is not making it into the coils, and the efficiency doesn't change.
"20kw" means nothing on it's own. It's about where, and for how long through the rev range you can dump that amount of power into it.
In simple terms, it's how many phase amps you can get the motor to consume before it spins up to an RPM where backemf limits you. Aka that max efficiency number you talk about.
During, and only during this window will you have to deal with magnetic saturation (not taking into account field weakening). And yes, the limits for the KO motor are undoubtedly higher, but this either only really matters for a short amount of time in the case of low KV, high torque, or you flatten the curve with high KV windings, which means you will lose torque down low, but you can keep dumping phase amps into the motor longer. It all depends on how the motor is wound, the number of pole pairs, the static field strength, etc.
Either you lower the KV and up your torque constant, or you do the opposite. There is no magic here.
It's kind of like having a 100 hp diesel engine vs a 100 hp gas engine. Both make 100 hp. The diesel has more torque, but it can't spin as fast, while the gas engine has less torque, but it revs higher and continues to make it's torque for much longer.
Power is just a function of torque over RPM.
Insulting people personally is a poor way to mask your ineptitude.
Try making some actual counter arguments instead.
Wait the nuc 24f is $600? Seems like a good deal.
@@bluetrepidation Yes, but the wait is long.
I'm very happy with mine personally.
@@detaart I'll have to add one to my wish list.
Looks very similar to Inverclyde in Scotland take it that's NZ?
Aussie going by the accents
We are located in South Tasmania 🤙
@@progressive_e sick man like I say it looks like home and very similar terrain that I ride the other side of the world 🌎 keep pushing the videos out nice to get some actual tech info 👍
I reckon I'm jumping on the ko wagon for Xmas but I'll just be buying a nano controller for the stock motor and keeping things robust with a slightly higher than stock power
Do you guys want a larger 57 ah battery or is the extra weight not worth it?
honestly unless you are racing you dont need it. people drive less than 40miles a day and the surron in eco mode can do that no problem then some.
@@mrnickisntaprick more power would be nice
This should be enough to silence the KO haters. Agree KO is not for everyone but right now no other better alternative to KO if you want the best performance upgrade for surron. Great content guys👌
@Mtlmtl Qc That was not the intent of this test, it was to compare motors. There is nothing stopping you from running whatever tests you want.
@Mtlmtl Qc I had bac4000 and 8000 before I upgrade to KO. I was so frustrated that after few kilometers my speed slows down significantly because of motor overheating. I never experienced that on KO
@Mtlmtl Qc got you but my point is was not happy with bac4k and 8k on surron motor. All my frustration from that set up KO has solved it. I guess coming from stock customer should go straight to KO. I bought my bac8000 for 15000usd so it's more expensive than KO plus 1200usd for bac4000. KO controller is 2300usd factory specs
What would be reasonable amps for the stock motor?
Hey mate, it's the phase amps that usually kill the motor more than the DC amps.
I'd probably say 220Max DC amps would be the upper limit. So anything under that would be fine.
As far as phase amps, depending on your riding, anytime from 430 to 550 if your planning to ride hard.
You can definitely go more than these numbers for very short burst too.
@@progressive_e I copied your KO nano tune to my Talaria sting Pro KO controller and stock motor. Works great and hauls ass. Controlled and smooth surprisingly. Smoother than stock. Feels much faster than what I had tuned in before. Thank you very much!
@@brendanflegle3326 that's awesome to hear man!
I've actually got a different tune for a stock motor that works better if you'd like to reach us on insta👍👍
@@progressive_e alright!
Kill the K. O. Motor the 72v Battery?
The Surron motor died not the KO. Battery was an EBMX 72V
Great Vid Guys 🏁
Both bikes were running identical batteries?
Yes mate, forgot to mention that. EBMX 72V 42AH
Not a fair test use the stock motor with a BAC and use the ko motor with a ko controller
They are comparing motors, not controllers. In that context it's as fair as it gets. Same controller, same tune, same battery.
I see where you’re coming from with it not being a fair test, it would kinda be like comparing two cars where one requires 87 octane fuel and the other 93 but putting 87 in both. The 93 octane engine is only going to screw itself up. But I think that’s the point of this video, just to be informative that you can’t run 20 kW through a stock Sur Ron motor instead of being a comparison between the two.
thinking about it wrong. It's like if you had two different car motors and one guy said "I can run 500 horsepower" and the other guy said "I can run 500 horsepower" 1 motor is built for it the other motor isn't. Then running that horsepower and seeing which one last. Hope that helps you understand 😝🤘
this was sick
sick
Awesome video, you should probably reach out to Suronster on youtube, he just put out a new video, and he is having some issues with his KO setup, maybe you could help him out.
They have helped out so many from the community already. They don't get paid to help, unfortunately.
You should go help your neighbors rake their lawns, for free 😉😂😝
I'm just giving you a hard time. Please accept this solely as a joke brotha 🤘🤘 they are amazing people who I'm sure would love to help!!
@@BedSheetBooty Yeah I'm just mentioning it as Suronster is one of the biggest Surron youtuber out there, so if they want their channel to grow way faster which they been trying to do, helping him will most likely boost their channel by a lot if he mentions them helping him. But I get what you are saying.
Thanks legend I'd love the opportunity to help Surronster but I know KO have him covered 👍
Definitely been helping allot of people out! It's honestly 50 msgs plus a day!
I just want people to have a good experience with real information on the Surron 🤙
Honestly really appreciate your support!
Jared
@@BedSheetBooty 🤜🏼🤛🏽
@@christianwilliams1136 totally agree! My comment was completely meant for humor! These things are hard to translate from humor in person, over to the internet. I appreciate you having a good sense of humor back 🤘
…’Magnetic Saturation’ , interesting stuff - Nicola Tesla would have used those type of phrases when describing excessive electron groupings 🫣
…loving the passion as always guys, thanks for the sacrifices made to best inform the Surron Communities 🫱🏻🫲🏽