ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ต.ค. 2024
- Kagenashi is an animation technique that uses limited details and shadows. Because of this, it sometimes gets labelled as lazy animation. But it's awesome??!
Twelve years ago the Village Hidden in the Leaves was attacked by a fearsome threat. A nine-tailed fox spirit claimed the life of the village leader, the Hokage, and many others. Today, the village is at peace and a troublemaking kid named Naruto is struggling to graduate from Ninja Academy. His goal may be to become the next Hokage, but his true destiny will be much more complicated. The adventure begins now! - เกม
Minimal shading is not Kagenashi, don't confuse these two. Just because Norio Matsumoto simplifies the designs doesn't mean he's using Kagenashi. I'm mentioning this because you are clearly using a lot of clips that do have shadows. (including both naruto fights you showed)
who gives a fuck
I do. One is zenkage and one is kagenashi
i agree
@@JLA_TM kagenashi is also known as zenkage
I agree
Id call it "loose" rather than "lazy"
I agree.
Am pretty sure it's called the flow style
This is actually my favorite type of animation.
me too
Me three
SAMEE
Me one
Me minus
Why do I feel like Kagenashi scenes in Naruto were the MOST memorable and epic moments
oh, they were memorable. just not for the reasons you think.
@@axain7784you barely remember any other foght because they have repetitive looping animations and awkward cuts and pacing
@@axain7784 Then what about Madar vs Shinobi Alliance
I think they use kagenashi because it's quicker to color. I have also noticed all the fights in Naruto that use kagenashi are usually important and have more effort out into them
Some people don't even understand what's "bad" and "good" animation is, or kinda drawing their own weird line. Like my good friend didn't watch Initial D, which can be understandable since it have bit dated look for his gentle eyes, lol. But when he told that he doesn't like how FLCL looks, I stopped understanding what he means by good animation alltogether xD
omg i can’t believe i didn’t even use a single clip from FLCL! 🤦♂️ FLCL art and animation is awesome! whattt? I guess everyone has their own tastes. Which is fair. I , personally, really can’t get into the Jojo art style 🥲. I know it’s objectively good art but it’s just not for me i guess.
@@rauwro well, I can get that, jojo also weird sometimes xP As in general, my friend kinda can't handle anything that looks too retro, even modern pixel art games xD Also yeah, it would be cool seeing inclusions of FLCL in future vids if not a whole vid about x3
@@rauwro jojo is very very very very detailed (on the anatomy part)
@@rauwro Jojo has weirder art for me
it's definitely am aquired taste
I also can't get into it😂
Art is subjective
When I first saw this scene in Naruto, I said "He punched him so hard the art style changed! 😮😮😮".
This is easily one of my favorite animation techniques. Every time I see it it puts a humongous smile on my face! I was actually thinking of making a video on this awhile ago to show my appreciation of it, but you hit the nail on the head when it comes to the creativity, expression, fluidity, and personality of this technique! Amazing video🙏
same! i love seeing it!
and you should make one! i’d love to see that video :D
thank you! ^^
Devilman crybaby: *animators taking notes aggresively*
I actually always thought this technique was brilliant. Just as you said, taking away the shading only puts more emphasis on the smooth & lively animation, drawing the viewers attention to the subtlety of hand motions or body posture and such. Really, I think it’s a treat every time I get to experience kagenashi because the characters just feel so alive. These days, lower budget anime are (yes, well shaded, but) stiff and lifeless. Kagenashi, I’d argue, never makes animation feel flat, but the additional dimensions in the animation make it feel more third dimensional. Thank you for making a video on something I love, that I didn’t even know had a name.
It's not even a requirement. I just think detail is not as important in the realm of anime as it is in the realm of manga. And you really feel it while watching, because the more fluid animation serves it's purpose of filling out the gaps in our imagination. If anything the animation fandom has it all backwards, and there should be a lot more expressive works rather than works that take absurd amounts of time to make just for the end result to be a stiff and lifeless albeit authentic copy-paste of a pre-existing piece of media.
I still remember the weird sudden influx in "animation and writing experts" in like 2014/2015 saying the Pain fight was horribly done while screenshotting LITERAL SMEAR FRAMES as proof and acting like cubes had never been used for simplification of rocks being thrown.
god damn that intro editing went hard. big channel incoming
I noticed this pattern where many animators use this, I like it. Though I can see how it's a double edged sword
Most people get used to seeing their show with a certain level of detail, and it's jarring to see it go away so dramatically to compensate for more movement
I like mr hosoda for using this technique All the time, and you don't have to worry about a sudden art style change breaking your immersion
it being jarring is very true. the fourth episode of Gurren Lagann is one that i remember being super jarring for me personally when the style changed the way it did
you've gotta do it a very specific way for it to look nice. Naruto put a bad rep on kagenashi because of that Pain vs Tailed Beast Naruto fight _alone._ It distorts the characters in a way that doesn't fit with the raw emotion of the scene. if you want me to feel like shit's going down, make me feel like shit's going down. don't make me feel like I'm watching a looney tunes episode. (examples being: pain's "i'm soiling my pants" face when using Planetary Devasation, the "MY PAIN IS FAR GREATER THAN YOURS!" scene, pain's sonic run when he's running on water, Naruto turning his hands into orbs and flailing around to deflect rocks. there's likely a couple more that I'm forgetting, not sure tho.)
it would've been more productive for them to convey more hatred through the character's expressions. like when pain leans back when he's punching the ground during the "MY PAIN" scene, don't have his face turn into something more resembling a lawn dart. instead, have his expression more visible, the already small pupils of the rinnegan shrinking in anger, mouth agape with rage. maybe even tweak the movements to be more rigid and twitchy, given that he's a corpse being forced to move at full capacity. Naruto's not as bad as Pain was, though that's mainly thanks to the almost static expression his Tailed Beast form had during that fight.
I like the idea of kagenashi. it's just hard to get it right. and given the time constraint the animators had with Naruto back then, I don't think there would've been enough time to really get it right.
@@axain7784you are correct, sometimes it just isn't the right time for experimentation, and with long running shonen there just has to be an episode like this, one meant to be ambitious but backfires on the producers and audience,
We all know the drama that Stem from mahoraga, but let me remind you of "Asta vs ladros"
Someone was laughing his guts out for 15 minutes straight reacting to it
To see some examples of stable kegnashi, look up "taiki konno" he's one of my favorites
@@bwpanda344 Honestly I think Mahoraga was completely fine, it was just an issue of overworked animators not able to bring their vision to life. The bluray fight was MUCH better and fixed basically every single major flaw, while just leaving the general jank they couldn't possibly fix/rewrite.
I've seen kagenashi a lot more than I think in the anime I've seen, and I noticed a few differences, but I couldn't quite put my finger on them. It's cool to see that it's actually a whole technique. Great vid keep it up!
It's even funnier when people make it out to be such a deep technique while it's looking so unintentionally comical.
Personally, I LOVE the simpler shading animation- yeah, beautifully rendered shadows look nice, but I also can't process anything that's happening. In this minimalistic shading, not only do the animators get to pay more attention to the small details, but I also can NOTICE the details without needing to pause and review. That's a win-win in my book.
i really love simple shading because of the easy smooth effect that it gives everything, like it feels almost weightless, which is why it looks so good in fights (imo, it’s because of the ‘weightless’ feel that the animation can portray fighting skill)
If it was lazy animation, we would see it in every other run of the mill trash seasonal anime. And oh my god that would be heaven.
lolll so true. Imagine 😆
ok zoomer, now go to sleep
i've recently seen people compare some of the animation in jjk season 2 to that pain fight. that alone shows how much of a pedestal that animation is put on even thru all the memes
(Spoilers)
I think they’re talking about the sukuna vs mahoraga fight onward because the original releases of that fight and the final one between mahito and yuji and todo were obviously very rushed and sloppily made compared to the rest of season 1 and 2 because of the amount of crunching the animators were forced to do. The parallel drawn is because a lot of people hated how the pain vs naruto fight looked because of the lack of detail and off model scenes which imo look too goofy and unprofessional for a serious fight
@@drippingmalasada4075 who cares tho, Pain go whoosh
Thanks for the amazing video and commentary! I once heard in an animator's talk that the drawing and silhouette itself is more important for conveying volume and gesture than the shadows, so it makes total sense.
There's a 2 minute long video by Pegbarians called 'Naruto vs Pain: Animation Explained!' that very succinctly explains why Pain vs Naruto can still be considered bad even when appreciating the skill and intent behind it.
Edit: I think an important part of animation is knowing when it is appropriate to apply certain techniques and when to show restraint.
Crazy how this type of animation even needs defending. It's so clearly the best-looking type of animation that takes the most effort.
underrated vid/channel
There is something called good squish and squash animation and bad SaS which most people don't know about. The pain fight is an example of bad SaQ, while often in 3d animation you can notice how you properly do it because its accurate estimated. "lazy" animation depends, but often in a lot of modern show they use shortcuts, crushing all details (proportion, style, anatomy) in order to achive more frames is just very cheap as it gives the animators so many excuses for poorly executions.
Anything a PERSON who probably had to work slave hours to draw is not lazy 🗣🗣🗣
This video was amazing!
Great work as always RauwRo.👍👍
thank you!! glad you liked it! :))
this video put a smile on my face.
this comment put a smile on mine 🥺
i personally liked the pain vs raged naruto scene
i don't really understand much from animating yet but it amazed me of how many frames was getting used and how smooth it looked. anime is literally 2d so it's pretty hard to make a smooth frame like that
i would absolutely love to learn to make smooth frames like that
it kinda sad when people call a good animation bad just because there no shading in it
Or just bc they can't use every single frame as a wallpaper
Yeah because it’s not the animation that’s bad, it’s the shading in the art…. Those are two different things so people shouldn’t blame the animation for the art
@@coolbazil212 isn't keeping the character art consistent not part of good animating?
@@lapostetu9337 well I’m just saying people shouldn’t blame the animation by the art. They don’t have to put so much detail, but when people say the animation is bad because of the art, that’s just plain wrong.
Kagenashi looks 90% times better than ultra detailed low frame animation. At the end choreograhy and storytelling trough animation is what matters the most.
I fricking love Kagenashi
The thing I love with the pain fight specifically though this may be unintentional is that pain himself is a corpse, a sturdy corpse but a corpse that is being controlled, the way he fights and reacts to blows is very inhuman, usually a human would either react to a strike or attempt to dodge or block it but pain just takes it cause he doesn't have the wariness that an alive person would have, also the infamous pain scene where he's punching the ground is a great example, his skin and muscles just wouldn't follow up with his strike normally cause he's not alive, he's not pacing himself with his body like an alive person which the animation perfectly fits for what he is and who he is.
I think Birdy The Mighty Decode's animation was legitimately ahead of its time. I wish I watched with this show first because I decided to start with the 1996 version and now I can't get over the changes to the story and characters 😭
Many anime fans are actually VFX fans, not ANIMATION fans
I didn't know there was a name for that type of art. I love how Kagenashi looks.
The Sabaody arc in One Piece has some great uses of this animation technique, like when everyone is fighting Kuma or when Luffy punches the Celestial Dragon
naruto was the first series i noticed this in and i always loved it there. it gave it such a neat and simplistic but fluid feeling if anything
yo how does this only have 800 views? Ur underrated af
Share it?
Those Naruto animation cuts done by Norio is when I realized I'm a fan of his since he did some Ranma 1/2 cuts and I didn't even know it, same with his Ruroini Kenshin scenes. He can rotate the characters at the same time he rotates/moves the "camera" and it doesn't lose the flow. It drives me crazy when kids today say MHA animation is good when the last 2 seasons have like 2 sakuga cuts, to me it's just a slideshow.
As a digital artist, we call this technique "Dynamic Artflow"
Love that Aries intro
This video was great and I share a lot in common in the tastes of animation style!
I'd recommend watching Sonny Boy (2020) it's all essentially Kagenashi (all eyecandy) but also very interesting story.
Please make more videos, this was amazing.
thank you!! so glad you liked it! still need to watch Sonny Boy!
When people were making fun of squash and stretching in animation I knew the anime comment is full of ignorant people
its really not lazy, like to me this does such a great job at adding dimension to context. pain arc was intense and its one of my favorite animation sequence till this day. they do this to showcase the intensity of the fight and imo its seamless
I prefer shadowless art. It's a lot harder to convey form with just lines. Outside of animation it's often referred to as Ligne claire (clear line in French).
6:58 I think "dingo pictures" is your answer to what lazy animation looks like.
So glad I found this. I became OBSESSED with the animation style in the baron omatsuri and the secret island one piece movie, went down a whole rabbit hole trying to find a name for it but came up blank, just knowing I also loved those Naruto scenes, summer wars, and devilman crybaby for their animation
The word you are looking for is
FLOW
this is not lazy because it's usually combined with crazy epic sakuga.
Oooh, great topic. I’m not really well versed in animation but I do appreciate it when it looks great to watch. In the Naruto opening for the pain arc, there’s an animation that’s more abstract and less detailed of Naruto being succumbed by the red chakra. It’s. Ot very detailed but it’s so visceral and unnerving but also shows so much emotion. Animation at least from me, it’s not just about how technical it is but also the intent and context.
Edit: Actually it was the one before the pain arc.
I actually love these kinds of animation
I think something people forget about the Naruto vs Pain fight is that the paths of pain are not living people. They're corpses being puppeteered by Nagato's chakra. It makes sense that they would move like ragdolls, because thats basically what they are.
Amazing video. Thank you so much for making this.
Glad you enjoyed it!
The VA-11 Hall-A ost goes hard
I'd rather watch an expressive and fluid animation bouncing around like an elastic band with just flat colors and lines than watch a beautifully rendered anime filled with only panning shots and still frames and mouth animation going " º-º ºoº º-º ºoº º-º ".
Some people tend to forget that animation has to do with motion, that's the core of it. How pretty or detailed an anime looks does not guarantee good animation, good movement.
Things like Demon Slayer and Jujutsu are examples of productions that achieve both detailed style and fluid animation.
Then remember Trigger animations like Kill la Kill, Dungeon Meshi and Gurren Lagann. Intentionally smudging, smearing, deforming and lessening the detail of an anime's style for certain scenes is a conscious and intentional choice.
everytime me and my brother are watching an anime and these scenes play we go "animaaaation~" "oh that's where the budget went"
actually reminds me of Ping Pong The Animation a lot here, might be the same technique. fucking brilliant animation in that show
ping pong the animation absolutely does use it! and yeah, the animation is great! 🤩
@@rauwro8:28 what's the name of the song
its not about the frames, but the entire scene as a whole.
the baby doesn't have a soother. its a goatee
i've always preferred clean statisfying motion over drawing quality; after all, that's basically what animation is about
Thank you for speaking the truth on this underrated and misunderstood style... Personally though as an animation nut as well, but having not really seen much Naruto outside of the fights, I have to side with the "animation illiterate" crowd a little as I feel the fluidity afforded to the Pain fight ended up bordering a little on wacky and stupid (as opposed to fights that showed a little more restraint while keeping the intensity such as Kakashi vs Obito or the Momoshiki fight)- which I think would be perfect on Mob Psycho or OPM or One Piece, but IMO not necessarily for Naruto or Bleach- as a diehard Bleach fan as well I was a little appalled seeing the amount of shadow and highlight work on what is an already insanely detailed style on the TYBW adaptation as I felt it would require huge sacrifices on the intricacy and fluidity of the actual motion/ animation on the show and its fights, which unfortunately was the case in a large number of fights... I was personally hoping for a style closer to that of the Hell Verse movie opening or OP 13 as those kagenashi/ near-kagenashi segments were absolutely brilliant and beautiful 🔥🔥🔥
Baron Omatsuri legit the only One Piece movie I remember anything about and that’s because I’ve watched it like 7 times or more
I use this sometimes in my animations, it truly does save time and is the most fun to make ngl. But I also only use it during like emotional parts where I want stuff to be smoothed
Rare to see an anime youtuber talk about animation this well
Not pretentious, actually knows what they're talking about and very reasonable, great video
It’s actually just base animation from which you can expand if you have time and/or money for the scene. Adding graphical details , secondary actions or in-betweens is actually way easier and straightforward, though very time consuming. The thing with animation details is that it increases the workload exponentially, and sometimes for diminishing results.
Two dimensional representations seem to allow for a metaphysical simplification, and when you get rid of shadows, a thing that exists three dimensional, the dream like representations of 2D are “essence” capturing. Look up William Blake, his “unfinished style has that same directness that captures an almost purely two dimensional beauty.
Mob psycho animation is one of my favorites, specially Reigen hand movements
i'm so happy to find someone who appreciates the Pain fight. even after watching a hella lot of shonen anime with crazy animation like JJK, Demon Slayer, Dragonball, One Piece, and the list goes on... I still have the Pin fight as my favorite fight of all time.
also jjk s2 ep 16 (sukuna vs jogo and megumi vs toji) has the same style as the pain fight, a lot of kagenashi
You can make a whole video about this with only examples from Masaaki Yuasa and studio Science Saru, and thats why I love their anime
Also The Pain fight episode literally took twice as long as to animate than an average anime episode
The problem is that with the Naruto example is that it wasn't an artistic choice, it was a way to make the most out of the bad production schedule and budget. When it is used as an artistic style it's amazing, in Naruto it's just the only way to not give us a slideshow
NARUTO was far far away from being lazy , they blurred it out to show more of the sheer speed and power that was on the screen but it got bashed so hard that they had to rethink their decision . In my opinion it wouldve been better if they continued with that it was soo stylish a
3:35 I always thought this fight was very well animated, as a young animator myself. The massive problem with it is the concept of Pain's actions, and other decisions that are made way before the animators step in. The problem is narrative, not visual. The problem is what is shown and not how it is shown.
Pain would never ever start randomly screaming in this situation. He sees Naruto as just his tailed beast, and the Kyubi as an inferior being, as a power source for his plan and nothing else. He cannot enjoy this since the only reason he does it is to achieve humanity's understanding. Fighting a tailed beast is not something he enjoys or even cares that much about. It makes -100 sense. And that is not to talk about when he gets pounded and plushed into the ground upside down like a literal looney tunes character. One day I'm gonna find out who made that decision and have a nice little talk with them 😁🔪
The Baron One Piece movie was a great example! I loved that one!
Thanks this video helped remind me why I love anime 😂❤
bro he used those sequnces and impact frames thats crazy
nobody, absolutely nobody thinks these types of fight scenes are lazy
It always bugs me when people complain about the pain vs Naruto animation. It’s purposeful and makes the animation much more fluid and powerful
No its just bad bro
@@ayushxettri7070 Nah it’s good, and I have a feeling you are either joking or didn’t watch the video 😂
@@heraclesn na its bad maybe purposefully but bad is bad
"but when i pause it at that one frame it looks dumb"
@@PretendingToListen Literally bro 😂 it’s animation it shouldn’t need to be paused. I really wish the Naruto vs pain fight wasn’t so complained about because it good animation
Man I remember most people gettin pissed over Pain's face distortion as he hits the ground with a punch saying "My pain is far greater!"
Like bruh, how could you fail to understand that this was deliberate, to give more emphasis on the strength of the punch, and the friction of the air with the face as the punch speeds down too fast.
You know, when the new One Piece Opening came out ("Us!"), it instantly became my favourite out of the 20-something so far. What GOT me was when I heard someone say "oh, I guess they ran out of budget for this opening" and I've never seen someone fumble their ignorance on animation so hard before. It's the same thing when I hear people say that Mob Psycho 100 has "bad animation" and what they're really referring to is solely the art style, to which it's just "different", not even bad. And I love it.
OH MY GOD THIS. Another example along with the Mob Psycho example, people say Pokemon Sun and Moon has terrible animation, when it's really just the artstyle they don't like. The goofier art style allows for the better animation.
A fellow "wonky (with affection) animation" fan thank you! If anyone is interested in unique animation styles I recommend Devilman Crybaby, it's not Kagenashi but it is quite similar in that it achieves the things you mentioned in the video but with flater colors instead of a lack of shadows, the storyline is very good too with a strong message and an even stronger final, I really recommend it (though you might want to watch it in private due to how... strong the content is).
also the guy in the tractor scene was very much intended to be like that and it does things like that a lot, it's hilarious and it's called "working for god in a godless world" if I remember correctly, if you like it when animation the animation change is played for laughs I also recommend Bocchi, it has that balance between pure, gold comedy and talking about heavy topics like anxiety.
Ok I'll stop recommending now because otherwise I won't stop.
i love this technique it looks so cool
If you ask me movement is always the priority in animation. As long as the movement is clear and readable, i don't care for detail
People tend to not distinguish the drawing between the animation
Less detailed drawings faster to draw + easier to animate, more time to add more movement.
SNAKE EYES intro and a great video
I'm an animator and this is hella true. Just because something has "more detail" it doesn't necessarily look better. In animation, the point is to make movement from objects that alone can´t. If the animation doesn't move, then it's not animated. Even if you remove shadows, lights, color and even the clean look, if the character or object moves in a way that makes the viewer believe that it's not just a sequence of images, then it's not lazy or bad animation.
It's beautiful, wish more cartoons used amazing animation like this. People don't really understand art and animation too well and don't like it unfortunately.
Those who calls animator lazy need know more about animation.
Glad to see someone in defense of this! These scenes that focus on the moment, the flow make those details almost appear by proxy for me.
3:45 If Tom and Jerry were characters originally created in anime.
I LOVE THIS VIDEO
So damn good video man... I agree 100%
Give them more freedom to showcase the power or feel of the movements
the pain vs naruto even with the minimal shading and the goofy frames when you pause lets take this into consideration that the animation is smooth and isn't choppy the goofy frames(like the face of pain in one of the frames ) works well with the showing of force and speed it feels like its actually happening in real life with the ripples in the face and even though The naruto vs pain fight was old it smoother than most of anime fights today in the modern day
7:36 so you also saw the catastrophe of a critisim that was from that one guy who shall not be name
lolll yuuuppp.
name him pls
@@user-lr8ow2jg4eit was a review by some guy who sounds like he knows what he is talking about but he really doesn't.
You can check a criticism on his video by another TH-camr named Mankoman with his video "Ignorant Bleach fan casually insults legendary artist." It has nothing against bleach itself but more like a joke because of his remarks
this is why im saying that if Naruto ever gets redone, they somehow got to keep the original fight scenes, even if they got to show them in 4:3. they were done masterfully and dont need redoing, only upscaling, but there probably isnt much to do.
So that's why JJK S2 looks so different then S1 & 0 movie , still like animation with "bit" shadow
yessir! especially with that sukana bs jogo fight!
i hate it when people call animation lazy. animation takes hella of a long time, ive only dabbled in it slightly but its very difficult and time consuming. If you take enough time, dedication, and work to animate something, thats not lazy no matter who says so.
This was a good sakuga technique video. I would love a cover technique on the Kanada-style since we're discussing sakuga!
i like this idea! i’ll check it out!
It’s definitely not lazy 100% but what it is divisive even animators talk about the different pros and cons of high quality drawings and lose but expressive animation, but a simple rule is that lose expressive animation is better for character animations and fights and high quality detailed drawings serve more to drive an important moment like when a character builds their resolve and their face super serious
Everything has its merits in the end