Genius! I am impressed at how straight you were able to get those to come out of the sling. Though I'm surprised the alternative method of holding them in the sling wasn't getting clean releases. Did you ever try a figure 8 like Yurek (MrJugas)? This is super cool... You may be honing in on a WR design for distance.
the main problem with the 4 cords is that the dart slips. To stop it from slipping it would need some extra grooves. Fig-8 might be a very good option for kestros
Excellent! I love the idea of pre-twisting the sling cords so they untwist during the rotations. Great thought! Those things seem to pack quite a punch too! 👍
If you had explained or shown me this before, I would have said, it will never come out cleanly. But it releases great, that's real experimental archeology at it´s finest 👍👍👍 If this works with your sling that you show at 2:30, that points highly to this design, because it could potentially allow the use of many distance slings (available anyway, less logistical effort). Something like this can be adjusted even in the field to existing slings. I the throw at 8:08 without pre-rotation looks very good. Maybe it would also work with the style which is often depicted on the ancient coins. Behind the head and without pre- rotation. Great job thanks for the video
I haven't tried this design but I have thrown short plumbata with my sling. The bulbous "hand grip" of the plumbata goes into the pouch like any sling stone would and you throw it point forward; works fantastically.
FASCINATING! This is the FIRST time I've ever heard or seen this "kestros" of yours! THIS is the reason I subscribed to your channel! Also, can you show how this kestros is made & used? It'd be VERY MUCH APPRECIATED! MORE! MORE!
Awesome. It looks quite accurate too! This kestron design is remarkably similar to a vaneless type of crossbow bolt used for target practice. You can find it in the book of the crossbow, page 128, fig. 83. "Crossbow bolt with flanges cut in its shaft to take the place of feathers, Length 7 inches, diameter of shaft 1/2 inch". Also I've looked into the descriptions of the kestrosphendone in both Greek and Latin. The latin description refers a sling with two "scutalia" an hapax legomenon/άπαξ λεγόμενον of uncertain meaning. But the fact that scutalia is a dimunitive of "scutum" which denotes an hide-covered shield (σχύτος in dialectal Greek means hide, possibly a loanword from some Italic language or a Greek cognate of the Latin work), we can conclude that scutalia means "little hide pieces"/"Little leather tabs"
scutale is a sling cord, the word is used elsewhere to describe the achaean sling. Thanks for mentioning the crossbow bolt. So these might have just been ballista bolts, there are differences though. The crossbow bolt has a smooth transition like the ones I made, while the ancient ones are drawn with square angles and thinner fins. Pictures of the original would answer many questions
@@Acroballistics I was talking about the Payne-Gallwey "Book of the Crossbow" but I guess you figured that out : ) Also, early modern flechettes are remarkably similar and they used in a vertical free fall, so my guess is that the qasr ibrim bolts were also meant for high-trajectory shooting, more compatible with slings and onagers rather than ballistae. Anyway, the fact that these were initially meant for as ballista "grape-shot" doesn't mean that they could not be shot otherwise. Since Macedon was among the pioneers of ballistae, the wide availability of such bolts would give impetus for finding alternative ways to use them when the expensive and complex ancient artillery were unavailable or in limited supply. A final thought is that perhaps the cord connects to the back of the bolts via a loop or wrap-around so that no arrow knock is necessary.
@@Acroballistics I saw a video of a guy slinging kestros carving a notch in the butt of the arrow and then hanging it from the sling. The loading part was much faster
Wow. That dart hits that plywood like a truck. It really is quite impressive. I can see where having an entire unit slinging those at you and the soldiers around you would be more than a little frightening. Quite deadly too, though that kind of goes without saying. That's really interesting, thanks for sharing.
Have you tried launching kestros from a staff sling? Their straight launch path might eliminate the tangling issues caused by twisting sling cords discussed at 5:05-5:30.
Great video! I still think there might be some details lost to history in terms of either the construction or the launching technique of the Kestros. I remember reading one of the Classical period historians mentioning that it can fly like arrows shot out from a bow. But every modern demonstration of it that I've seen of this weapon has either a very weak ballistic trajectory or a powerful but unstable trajectory.
One thing to consider with the wedged design would be a glue, ironically perhaps a fish glue considering the name, I wonder if such a weapon could have inspired the plumbata
Have you seen the kestros sling by David Morningstar? It probably isn't historically accurate, but it does seem to have a very clean release that reduces fishtailing.
I moved on to the LD-1 design because it is better. I just haven't made a video on it. The LD-1 was used for most long range hits in my videos. I will not make LP-4 slings again.
Awesome video! I'm trying to get good with a regular sling before I move on to kestrosphendone, so videos like this give me a lot of motivation. How far can you lob it? Obviously, if you're going for accuracy you're going to use a flatter trajectory, but what about long range area suppression?
I like these tests. The release looks potentially excellent. The reduced tail rather than actual fins or feather fletchings should also result in very low drag for a drag stabilized projectile. Possibly a stronger wood for the wedged fletchings would provide better results although from a handtool woodworking perspective it's interesting to think of an efficient way of doing them.
Gluing the wedged fletchings to each other and the shaft should increase there strength. A glued wedged design might be faster and cheaper to make than the carved style.
Great job! Have you ever had to check something like a sling spoon? The design features and shooting characteristics are interesting... I made lacrosse sticks according to the principle, the design has potential, but a more professional approach to this issue is required. Sorry for the crooked translation...
The Roman Account, implies feathers in addition on the carved one,( This version works well) The Macedonian account says wooden fletching's, shaped like wings.(wing shapes need testing), they Would have a custom Plane for the creation of this bolt (takes 30 minutes once to save hours on 30 bolts)
I love people who carry history with them
This may be a niche subject but I really like it, and you do a great job exploring these things. Good work!
Absolutely fascinating.
Very different from David Morningstar's one.
Genius! I am impressed at how straight you were able to get those to come out of the sling. Though I'm surprised the alternative method of holding them in the sling wasn't getting clean releases. Did you ever try a figure 8 like Yurek (MrJugas)? This is super cool... You may be honing in on a WR design for distance.
the main problem with the 4 cords is that the dart slips. To stop it from slipping it would need some extra grooves. Fig-8 might be a very good option for kestros
I absolutely love this. Great work!
excellent video and don't feel you have to use the Roman word. be proud to be Greek man!
I love this channel
Excellent! I love the idea of pre-twisting the sling cords so they untwist during the rotations. Great thought!
Those things seem to pack quite a punch too! 👍
One of the best channels on YT hands down. The research and practice are almost unparalleled
If you had explained or shown me this before, I would have said, it will never come out cleanly. But it releases great, that's real experimental archeology at it´s finest 👍👍👍
If this works with your sling that you show at 2:30, that points highly to this design, because it could potentially allow the use of many distance slings (available anyway, less logistical effort). Something like this can be adjusted even in the field to existing slings. I the throw at 8:08 without pre-rotation looks very good. Maybe it would also work with the style which is often depicted on the ancient coins. Behind the head and without pre- rotation. Great job thanks for the video
I haven't tried this design but I have thrown short plumbata with my sling. The bulbous "hand grip" of the plumbata goes into the pouch like any sling stone would and you throw it point forward; works fantastically.
FASCINATING! This is the FIRST time I've ever heard or seen this "kestros" of yours! THIS is the reason I subscribed to your channel! Also, can you show how this kestros is made & used? It'd be VERY MUCH APPRECIATED! MORE! MORE!
Great work acro!!
Can we get a razor glande version?
Awesome. It looks quite accurate too!
This kestron design is remarkably similar to a vaneless type of crossbow bolt used for target practice. You can find it in the book of the crossbow, page 128, fig. 83. "Crossbow bolt with flanges cut in its shaft to take the place of feathers, Length 7 inches, diameter of shaft 1/2 inch".
Also I've looked into the descriptions of the kestrosphendone in both Greek and Latin. The latin description refers a sling with two "scutalia" an hapax legomenon/άπαξ λεγόμενον of uncertain meaning. But the fact that scutalia is a dimunitive of "scutum" which denotes an hide-covered shield (σχύτος in dialectal Greek means hide, possibly a loanword from some Italic language or a Greek cognate of the Latin work), we can conclude that scutalia means "little hide pieces"/"Little leather tabs"
scutale is a sling cord, the word is used elsewhere to describe the achaean sling. Thanks for mentioning the crossbow bolt. So these might have just been ballista bolts, there are differences though. The crossbow bolt has a smooth transition like the ones I made, while the ancient ones are drawn with square angles and thinner fins. Pictures of the original would answer many questions
@@Acroballistics I was talking about the Payne-Gallwey "Book of the Crossbow" but I guess you figured that out : )
Also, early modern flechettes are remarkably similar and they used in a vertical free fall, so my guess is that the qasr ibrim bolts were also meant for high-trajectory shooting, more compatible with slings and onagers rather than ballistae.
Anyway, the fact that these were initially meant for as ballista "grape-shot" doesn't mean that they could not be shot otherwise.
Since Macedon was among the pioneers of ballistae, the wide availability of such bolts would give impetus for finding alternative ways to use them when the expensive and complex ancient artillery were unavailable or in limited supply.
A final thought is that perhaps the cord connects to the back of the bolts via a loop or wrap-around so that no arrow knock is necessary.
@@Acroballistics I saw a video of a guy slinging kestros carving a notch in the butt of the arrow and then hanging it from the sling. The loading part was much faster
@@TheMrcassina th-cam.com/video/oF6M82Qi81c/w-d-xo.htmlsi=aSP6WLtyLZFh8px1 that's my first video on kestros.
@@Acroballistics i am sorry, I was mistaken talking about "another guy", I checked out and it was you but I didn't notice until now
Wow. That dart hits that plywood like a truck. It really is quite impressive. I can see where having an entire unit slinging those at you and the soldiers around you would be more than a little frightening. Quite deadly too, though that kind of goes without saying. That's really interesting, thanks for sharing.
Well done 👍. Great idea
Great job, it turned out to be a very interesting movie!!
Have you tried launching kestros from a staff sling? Their straight launch path might eliminate the tangling issues caused by twisting sling cords discussed at 5:05-5:30.
Very strong video! Good job!
Great video 😻
Thank you
👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
Fist time I've heard of this device, fascinating indeed!
Great video! I still think there might be some details lost to history in terms of either the construction or the launching technique of the Kestros. I remember reading one of the Classical period historians mentioning that it can fly like arrows shot out from a bow. But every modern demonstration of it that I've seen of this weapon has either a very weak ballistic trajectory or a powerful but unstable trajectory.
Fricking awesome dude! Totally subbed!
One thing to consider with the wedged design would be a glue, ironically perhaps a fish glue considering the name, I wonder if such a weapon could have inspired the plumbata
Have you seen the kestros sling by David Morningstar? It probably isn't historically accurate, but it does seem to have a very clean release that reduces fishtailing.
Great video! Any plans to sell the LP-4 on Etsy any time soon?
I moved on to the LD-1 design because it is better. I just haven't made a video on it. The LD-1 was used for most long range hits in my videos. I will not make LP-4 slings again.
@@Acroballistics what is your preferred/recommended length for all-purpose slinging. I’m 185 cm
dman love it man
Have you made a video on making the sling? Part of it looks like a Balearic down to the pouch but I'm missing what the tail piece looks like
th-cam.com/video/__NpItACbBo/w-d-xo.html try this with shorter release/longer retention
Awesome video!
I'm trying to get good with a regular sling before I move on to kestrosphendone, so videos like this give me a lot of motivation.
How far can you lob it? Obviously, if you're going for accuracy you're going to use a flatter trajectory, but what about long range area suppression?
I haven't done any range tests yet
Could you give the dimensions of the sling, I wouldn't mind giving this a try.
I like these tests.
The release looks potentially excellent. The reduced tail rather than actual fins or feather fletchings should also result in very low drag for a drag stabilized projectile.
Possibly a stronger wood for the wedged fletchings would provide better results although from a handtool woodworking perspective it's interesting to think of an efficient way of doing them.
Gluing the wedged fletchings to each other and the shaft should increase there strength. A glued wedged design might be faster and cheaper to make than the carved style.
where do you find these abandoned mining sited for your videos?
google maps and then exploring.
Great job!
Have you ever had to check something like a sling spoon?
The design features and shooting characteristics are interesting...
I made lacrosse sticks according to the principle, the design has potential, but a more professional approach to this issue is required. Sorry for the crooked translation...
Thanks for watching!
what is the sling spoon?
The Roman Account, implies feathers in addition on the carved one,( This version works well) The Macedonian account says wooden fletching's, shaped like wings.(wing shapes need testing), they Would have a custom Plane for the creation of this bolt (takes 30 minutes once to save hours on 30 bolts)
What is the overall weight of the darts you are using? I have some socketed 1/2" arrowheads weighing 30grams and would like to experiment
the darts I made were around 120grams, the qasr ibrim bolts were 25grams
This was very interesting. The kestro doesn't get enough attention.
Legend!
It looks like one of the plane darts from WWI