UK - Buying a Chinese C2 for Welsh Highland Railway, 2006
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 มี.ค. 2018
- In 2006, some friends of ours from the Ffestiniog and Welsh Highland Railways decided they might like to buy one of the powerful little Chinese C2 0-8-0's.
The limestone railway at Dahuichang in the Beijing suburbs was the obvious destination, being handy to visit and easy to arrange shipment. So Dandan set about making arrangements for the guys to have an opportunity to closely examine Number 4 and check out its suitability. Number 4 duly passed all its examinations and was subsequently purchased for use on the Welsh Highland Railway, in North Wales.
As of 2018, the loco has been regauged from its original 2ft 6in to the required nominal 2ft, and is undergoing a thorough rebuild. Hopefully, we'll see Number 4 in revenue earning service on the line in the very near future.
I'll endeavour to visit the workshop in Wales very soon to make a short feature of its current progress.
Take a look at c2project.org/ for news and to support the project.
The latest update can be viewed at -
• UK - Chinese C2, First...
This sequence includes a short break away from Dahuichang watching a few SY Class 2-8-2's and a JS while the purchase was being considered.
Amazing to see at 4:10 that even when buying a used train, just like a car, the general tactic of kicking the wheels is still used as a test of quality.
Haha! I assume there was something else he was moving with his foot. Does look funny though. Andy
@@AndyDandanFisherSteam looks like one of the engineers was having a bit of fun by testing out the steam whistle.
any idea on the cab controls
@@eliotreader8220 Not sure but Chinese steam are left hand drive - the same as UK steam locos ...... Andy
Truly fascinating, pretty much a unique look at the acquisition of a used loco, not seen any other such videos here on TH-cam. Lovely to see it in its used state looking very honest and clearly having worked hard. Looking forward to seeing how its looking now after being worked on. Thanks for posting
My pleasure, again, Ken. I have so much stuff kicking around that I have to work through. I MUST get on with it ! I've already made arrangements with the guys to get over to Wales and make a follow up video. Andy
I visited Dahuichang in 1998, 1999 and 2001. So pleased to see one preserved.
It's a long process, Linc. They need around 50,000 GBP for a new boiler. Here's the latest report - th-cam.com/video/XZHznXVK7N4/w-d-xo.html ..... Andy
Amazing video, I have been following the project for a while and it’s amazing to see footage of the loco pre purchase.
Cannot wait to ride behind her when she’s in service.
I'm hoping that'll be another couple of years only. I'll be doing an update video soon. Andy
Thanks for posting an interesting video. I was on a FarRail visit to China in 2007 with four of the C2 team, the loco was in the UK by then. Apart from looking at other C2s in action, they were sourcing spares and drawings for their loco. They said it would take about ten years of work before it could run in the UK. Not a bad estimate. Well done!
George
I think it's a little way off working in the UK yet, isn't it? Andy
How much did it cost??
August 2018 and as far as I'm aware it's a set of frames with wheels
Its very interesting to see a pre purchase inspection of a steam loco.
Between you and me though, I think they'd have bought it whatever !! They'd fallen in love with it already !
But still v interesting :-)
Hmm.. It's not the sort of thing where one casually kicks the wheels and bounces it at each corner! ("All original paint you say?" draws air in through front teeth)
A very interesting video of a rather special situation! Hope all goes well!
It's progressing steadily so far ! Andy
pretty cool thanks for saving it everything can be restored.
Hopefully she'll be hauling trains on the Welsh Highland Railway within the next 2 years! Andy
Greetings from the United States. You fellas are doing a grand job over there, rebuilding and restoring one class after another, and now saving a class from extinction. It's a shame quite a few in the comments don't get it, but the lucky few of us do. Keep up the good work
Thank you so much for that comment. We've been a nation of steam lovers for 200 years !! Andy
And we're glad you are. Here in the states, our steam preservation is a joke, so it's good to know that we have an entire nation across the pond to tackle the task. I just don't get why people think buying a Chinese steam engine is as good as a crime these days
Kevin. As it happens, I have a US preservation question. There's a US mogul (2-6-0) sitting in
a rail depot in northern China which could really do with saving! It was built 100 years ago this year by Wilkes-Barre at Vulcan Iron Works. Is therte any body over there might have the resources to save it. My wife and I would halp where we could. Please take a look at 3:40 in the following -
th-cam.com/video/IO5ZB4w-oAM/w-d-xo.html
It's a mogul, so saving and restoring it should be a snap, but I'm afraid we know little about it ourselves. I'll try to contact a friend of mine in China to see what we can do. I don't have the kind of bucks to restore the engine, but we could at least gather information about it
Kevin. In the China Rail fleet it was MG8 4335. It was built in 1918 by Vulcan Iron Works, Wilkes-Barre in Pennsylvania. It's their works number 2433. My wife and I (she's Chinese) helped organise purchase and shipping of the C2 in this video and we could do the same with this mogul. The guys in this video paid around 10,000GBP all in for their loco, including the shipping, although this was 12 years ago. Let me know if anyone is seriously interested in owning this loco. Cheers, Andy
Its slightly reworked copy of the Soviet VP-2 Narrow gauge Steam locomotive
That is correct !! ...... Andy
Correction. The WHR is actually 1 foot 11 and half inches.
Thanks for your comment which is, of course, correct. I'm not providing engineering dimensions here but I've added the word "nominal" to avoid any confusion. Thanks again, Andy
can’t wait to see it running on the Ffestiniog rails
There's about £50k needed to get the boiler up to scratch. I may well be starting a fund raising bid on here!! ...... Andy
It'll be interesting watching her run. Looking at her state now you wouldn't think they were the same engine... (She probably won't be the same engine by the time they're done with her...!)
Its refreshing to see her having done her gauge clearance tests regardless!
It's a very slow job - Andy
*If by chance you are still reading this: Strongly suggest that your friends become some type of dealer or broker to sell these wonderful little locos around the world? Even becoming a manufacturer and dealer of parts, etc. Would mean money for those holding them in China. Could see new and long life as recreational steam for parks, etc. Would be a shame to scrap them all, when they could see new life elsewhere?*
It's not just a matter of buying them in China and instantly they're available to use anywhere else though. It's a massive job to rebuild them so they're safe to operate again, especially after 15 years out of use .... Andy
@@AndyDandanFisherSteam I understand that... Whoever bought them would strip them down and rebuild just as these guys did. Just seems like it would be a good business selling them, making spare parts, etc. rather than scrapping them. This should not be the *only* one saved...
Been looking around and can't find anymore information of the progress of the locomotive :/
I've just come back from a visit to Porthmadog. Please take a look at my video of them moving the re-gauged frames along the mainline -
th-cam.com/video/XZHznXVK7N4/w-d-xo.html
Andy
In the middle of the video, do you know what was happening? It looked like an SY was called to move smaller loco's tender (looked like an SY tender but smaller, so a YJ or PL2?), then a breakdown train rolled through. Was there a derailment?
To be honest, I don't know. As far as I know the tender was brought for coaling (as you can see in the video) but, I admit, it's an odd practice! The breakdown train was on a different line ... you can see the electric overhead that's not there on the first line. I don't know if the two events were connected at all. Sorry!! They're all standard SY tenders by the way. Also the loco with smoke deflectors and boiler top "streamlining" is a modified SY. Andy
cute little loc.
They do have a certain charm! Andy
Interesting video! I always assumed the Chinese narrow gauge was 2', I don't know why I jumped to that assumption!
Thanks for your comment. I'm pleased to help with your education ! Andy
when they said they were buying a used loco ...they really ment USED .it will need some work . great video .
A huge amount of work, including regauging to 24 inch gauge. Twelve years later, we're still a couple of years from seeing her steam again. Andy
I doff my hat to you folk . I live only a few miles from the nymr and see the work they do and the other vaulenteers you do a great job saving these old locos and I am grateful to all of you .no matter what gauge or class or region , these engine are our history . well done . hope its up and running soon .
Hear, hear !! Andy
Found this very interesting boy’s and well done for saving that little engine number 4 😊 Who made it? Looking forward too more videos on its restoration and visiting the WHR 👍 Thanks Stevie 😀
The loco was built in China in 1988 (probably at Datong Works) and is a copy of an earlier Russian design from the 1930's. I hope to be posting an update later this year and a first steaming in a couple of years time. Andy
Great video, I’ve been visiting the railways for over 35 years with my family as a small kid, and now with my own little boys! I adore the place, great to see footage of them looking at an old engine for the railway. Can I ask did they buy it and has it been restored yet or are they in the process of doing it?
Yes they bought it. It's currently in its own shed at Boston Lodge Works being restored slowly. Take a look at th-cam.com/video/XZHznXVK7N4/w-d-xo.html
.... Andy
Fantastic shot of reverse gear at 10.20!
Thanks. This loco is slowly nearing being steamed again in North Wales. With a bit of luck we'll see her working again in the next year or two. Andy
please post a video of this engine during its first moved on the welsh highland
I'll try to do that !! It'll be a year or two yet, though, I think. Andy
Andy and Dandan Fisher also check this out th-cam.com/video/pWTiOePLZX8/w-d-xo.html
that train now i bet is like new in wales, like see the transformation
It's a long way from being finished but its been regauged and the chassis rebuilt. They need about 50,000GBP to get the boiler repaired now. Take a look at this update - th-cam.com/video/XZHznXVK7N4/w-d-xo.html
......... Andy
Hmm... there are many other examples of that class way closer to home in better shape. Universally, these locomotives are called PT4 I believe. These were produced under many names such as Px48 or Kp4 in Poland, Kv4 in Hungary, Kch4 in Czechoslovakia/the USSR (I'm not 100% sure tho), C2 in China, and in Finland (although I don't know the exact name of that one.)
All those designs are similar and roughly based on the Russian original. None are quite the same though. I have to say I thought they took on a huge challenge but it's not for me to criticise. The Chinese C2 was much cheaper to buy than any of the others would have been though ..... Andy
How much to tonnage can 30"gauge locomotive pull ?
Of course, every locomotive is different Josh. The Chinese C2 locos were quite poiwerful for their size but I don't have an accurate figure for them. The nearest I can get is a tractive effort quoted as 5100 lbf (Pounds/foot). If you can convert that into a tonnage that it can haul, you're a better man than I !! Andy
The 4 painted on the loco seemed odd for years. I really liked it as it seems authentic to its use, but very odd. Then today. BOOM! The number 4 (14, 44, etc) is an unlucky number. The #4 is a practical joke! But it would be fantastic if the hand painted 4s were exactly recreated after rebuild. The 4s add real character.
I don't think the number 4 was on the loco as a practical joke Charles. I saw it in service several times and it was genuinely number 4 in a fleet of four locos. There were also hand painted 1, 2 and 3 !! I suspect that the lads will reproduce the hand painted 4 when they finish the paint job ! Andy
Andy. Thanks for the info. Very interesting this is not a practical joke. Looking forward to seeing the restoration. Thank you again.
Look out for botched boiler repairs, saw some bad cases in Cuba.
I think they're well past that stage by now. They've been rebuilding the loco for 12 years. It's well on its way to being back together. An update coming soon!! Andy
It's interesting how "American" some of the SY and JS locomotives looked. Even the tender truck arrangements would not look out of place on an east coast railroad in the 1930's.
That's because they were all copies of Russian designs which, in turn, were copies of American designs ! Andy
I did not know the Russians copied US locomotive practices. Interesting.
@@ScottRuggels I know the JS is based off of the LV and LV class engines, I think the SY is based off of the JF series of mikados, which I think are based off of USRA designs.
I want to buy this. Currently searching for somewhere to lay trakcs.
I think there are still a few lying around China waiting to be bought !! Andy
this is the 1st time I saw a tee-shirt "good boys go to heaven, bad boys go to Tenerife"
Unfortunately now the bad boys have to spend every spare minute and every spare penny with a Chinese C2 at Boston Lodge Works!!! Andy
Any update on this engine?
The restoration is dragging on through lack of money ... Andy
@@AndyDandanFisherSteam Oh okay. Thank you for responding.
Smokebox needs a good clean!
Methinks these would be more suitable for the Welshpool & Llanfair, which would not require the loco to be regauged.
It's already regauged now. Being put back together at the moment. With a bit of luck it'll be on the tracks for 2019. Andy
Andy and Dandan Fisher I will have to come down for a visit when it's running!
The old girl had charm & character! So how much did it cost back in 06?
They paid around £10,000 (GBP) including shipping in a container. The rebuild is costing money too! Andy
Was it listed with free postage?
Unfortunately not. It was shipped in a container to the UK. Andy
'Some assembly may be required.'
found extra bot and nut?
Yes
Andy and Dandan Fisher what are the things to look for when buying a used steam locomotive from China? Bearings? Connecting rods? Firebox?
I have never seen this on the Welsh line.
It's undergoing a complete rebuild. It's inside a building at Boston Lodge Works ...... Andy
World's smallest drive wheels.
Wait 'til you see some of the little tank engines on Java - I'm just editing videos right now. Watch out! Andy
Small drive wheels , is like having a car in low gear . It will pull well but not go very fast and in addition will go round very small curves in the track .
Correct !!! Andy
I hava a video with some of these in action before they started doing away with steam and the little narrow gauge lines. With those smaller wheels it also seem to help traverse some pretty questionable track with ease.
They were very capable machines, Mark. I have a few sequences of them in action on this YT page. Andy
it looks pretty scruffy in the vid but i recall seeing old Bush loco's in new Zealand in the 1960's in pretty much the same nick.
I'm afraid that's how a working loco looks. All these shiny things that we see today are just toys for tourists really ! Andy
Looks like she's had a hard life.
I think that's a very fair comment ! These were the workhorse of the industrial lines of China. To see an update on her progress, see - th-cam.com/video/XZHznXVK7N4/w-d-xo.html Andy
Cheers, mate. Looking forward to seeing her steaming along the WHR when the restoration's been completed.
Wow that thing looks hammered. It looks like the flanges are high and thin from my phone!! The cab smashed up the the non working cylinder cocks on the right side. Not to mention the simple things like no glass, or headlamps ( simple non mechanical stuff). Smoke box full of cinders, thick buildup on all the lubricated areas and running boards. Rebuild? Ya think?? Surprised you didn't find a better C2 I. China. I've seen several available.
It had been working for its living, you know!! The advantage of this line was that it was in the Beijing suburbs - made shipping far easier. Number 4 was the best one of the fleet (of 4). Andy
Gotta love armchair experts
These guys are heavily involved in locomotive maintenance on the Ffestiniog and Welsh Highland Railways. Andy
My comment was towards the guy listing off all the issues.... like no headlamps. Not the people rebuilding it :)
Aahhh!! Thank goodness for that. (I agree) ..... Andy
Did the loco make it to Dinas (or Boston Lodge)?
I believe it's in Boston Lodge at the moment. Andy
Well done for bringing the loco over; I will ask about it when we visit in July.
Might see you there! Tell them you saw it on my YT page please ! Andy
They have built her a lovely shed/workshop at Boston Lodge!
Great bunch and a perfect tour for me back in 2009 when Lily went back for a long Holiday in China!
I'll be doing a progress video very soon. Andy
was this loco purchased? I was looking for it in Wales. and why did the guy have a t-shirt that reads "good boys go to heaven. bad boys to to Tenerife"
Yes. They brought it back to the UK. It's in a special shed built for it in Portmadog. It needs another couple of years before it'll steam again. I'll be posting an update video later this year. Andy
I have to say I'm not sure about the T-shirt !! A
a youth with a tee-shirt like that, just exuberance :) I have seen your other page and it was giving much info for me.
this where I first learned about the t-shirt - I have found another - cool for sure :)
If you don't mind me asking, how much was it?
They paid around £10,000 (GBP) for the locomotive and its shipping to the UK. Andy
Andy and Dandan Fisher that is a LOT cheaper than what I thought it'd be!
Well, it would have just been scrap metal otherwise. My Dandan (seen in the video) built a relationship with the rail line staff and negotiated a good deal for the guys. Andy
Was the suitcase full of cash? Looks a powerful beast., Presumably there would be no loading gauge problems. Will need quite a bit of TLC. Very interesting.
They paid around £10,000 (GBP) for purchase and shipping, Jim. The loco has been undergoing a full rebuild for the last 12 years (including regauging to 2ft or 24"). Hopefully, the next couple of years will see its first UK steamimg. Watch my site for more updates. Andy
Will do. Thank you!
The gauge change suggests that the original boiler will no longer fit between the frames. The C2 Project's Web site suggests that it will be necessary to build a new boiler.
Maybe they did not realise this when they were inspecting the locomotive in China. They have drawings for the locomotive & the original boiler as a pattern.
Despite it's awful appearance this locomotive is less than 30 years old.
Another gauge problem is the clearance through bridges & tunnels. Anciliaries on the locomotive having to be re-sited and the cab & tender modified. There are a number of different cab and tender designs they can work with. They don't want to have a locomotive that looks too cut down or has bad visibility running tender-first.
Are they still using steam on the mainline in China as of this year, 2018?
Not on the mainline, I'm afraid Vincent. However, steam is still being used in a genuine industrial setting in the north west of China at Sandaoling. Please see my playlist -
th-cam.com/play/PLNKEdhmODMJxI2j-Vg4jtbeZqw2GfatEM.html
Andy
You looked like you were cooking an IPad lol
Took me a while to work that one out .... you mean the mirror inside the firebox !! Funny. That's not me, by the way. Andy
Китайская копия советского паровоза проекта П24. А может быть и это и есть одна из советских моделей (ПТ-4, ВП-1, ВП-4, Кв-4, Кп-4, Кч-4, Кф-4) проданных в Китай.
Now that China is more or less dieselized there are probably lots of old steamers laying around waiting to be junked. Could probably get a good deal on a few. Why not take two of the little C2's frames and a boiler from a SY and one could kit bash a baby articulated or Garrat!
I do have an imagination.
-stan
I think we'll let you tackle that one, Stan !!
I'll be honest, having lived in china until august last year, I'd say they have pretty much standardized in electric power, it's always a rare and nice site to see a Diesel powered thunderbird in a big chinese station, but I think around 10 years ago was likely the latest to go if you wanted a steam engine in running order.
Almost true. There's a few locations left where they're still running but only one where genuine industrial steam is operating. See my playlist -
th-cam.com/play/PLNKEdhmODMJxI2j-Vg4jtbeZqw2GfatEM.html
Andy
Yeah, well I guess I haven't been to many old industrial towns, I've been to old small towns, recent Industrial towns, Model Villages etc But, i guess never to a place like that, although the government hardly advertises grimey old ancient (at least in terms of design) trains that represent all that's lagging behind in China, interesting stuff you have there, I must ask; have you done anything other than train spotting in china? :D nice job filming all this, looks pretty amazing that this still continues well in to the 21st centuary, And I'm amazed my local station still has a Signal Box with semaphore signals...(one which will close in a few months at that!)
Remember, this was recorded 12 years ago. There's just a handful of these C2's left now and used for tourist work in China. This one has been in Wales for the last 12 years being rebuilt. I've done lots in China, including renting a flat in Beijing for 18 months and marrying my Chinese wife !! Andy
Looks about the right size for the WHR. It's too big for the FR.
I'm not certain but I suspect they may have to make the cab a little narrower even for the WHR. I'll find out soon and report on here. Andy
嘉阳，登封仍然有这些火车在运营
I think they're only for the tourists though. Andy
Andy and Dandan Fisher Yes you are right ,But jiayang 'S only for tourists,they also for the villagers
Where is this shot?Iwant to know if they are still alive
It's better that they run for tourists than not at all !! Andy
It's at Dahuichang in the Beijing suburbs. Long gone, I'm afraid. Andy
Looks like a scrapyard on little wheels :-)
It'll look different when it's hauling trains on The Welsh Highland Line - hopefully in 2019. Andy
Made in China
Haha. Not everything "Made in China" is rubbish (including my wife) !!! Andy
no i przyszły białasy szuflować węgiel
W Szkole pewnie tez byłeś taki mądry...
That is one ugly engine!
I think that's its charm !! Andy
Says you, I think she's a nice looking engine.
Who asked you anyway?
Hmm England doesn't have the knowledge to build an old steam train. They have to buy from China.
Calvin Brown _______ th-cam.com/video/xcBPrfCQMBQ/w-d-xo.html
What an ignorant comment, the UK has built and heavily rebuilt (might as well be new builds) steam engines for decades. This was about saving the last of something.
They had no problem building a1 tornado from scratch, but then england invented railways and steam engines
England was eu and did nothing for years. Everyone is dead that built england.
That doesn't even make sense...