The first Toymaker dressed in a Chinese outfit which today would be seen as racism. Russell felt by changing the accents would make him look a bit racist today.
As said by the second comment, Russel said in Unleashed that he deliberately leaned into the Toymaker's racist aspects my making him deliberately put on different stereotypical accents. But I like to think in headcanon that he had that as a second reason too.
My opinion on the bi-generation really depends on what they do with the two Doctors. I really like the idea of 14 being the Therapy Doctor. It’s a great throughline for the specials. Fourteen: but you’re fine. Fifteen: I’m fine because you fix yourself! …is such a beautiful response to last episodes… Donna: You okay? Doctor: I will be Donna: When? Doctor: A million years. Ideally, I’d like for us to never see the fourteenth Doctor again. I just want to know he is out there, being happy, and fixing himself and that’s how we finally get the emotionally stable fifteenth Doctor that we see in this episode. As 15 says “doing rehab out of order” I do kinda wish RTD could have written this story for Jodie. Her Doctor wanted a family so badly (see “Fam”) and I never truly understood why she couldn’t have it. It just seemed like she was sabotaging herself. This would have been the perfect ending for her… living a simple life with Yaz, growing old together. 😢
@@Joe_Brennan_ Jodie’s era just makes me sad and not in a good way. It isn’t a beautiful tragedy like most of 10s run, it’s just sad. Great potential entirely squandered.
The interpretation of bi-regeneration essentially snatching the dying 14 from the future to be born as 15 in the events of the giggle has made the concept easier for me to accept. In any case, I didn’t really care at that point because I was so impressed with Ncuti being able to establish himself so effortlessly while sharing the stage with David freaking Tennant. But yeah, I do hope we get a proper ‘mid story’ regeneration one day. The idea of a new doctor having to somehow resolve a story that killed their predecessor is so interesting, and could be a great way of contrasting the two incarnations. Also, I loved the brief flashes of Hartnell and Gough when the Doctor and the Toymaker first meet. It was a neat visual shorthand to communicate the history. Maybe we could get more of that whenever old baddies show up?
Yeah thinking we were gonna get a mid-story regeneration was a very exciting few seconds. I think with the way final episodes work as a goodbye these days, it kind of feels like it’d never happen. But who knows…
@@Joe_Brennan_ I could see it working as a two parter. Part one is all about the outgoing Doctor, before they’re killed at the end and regenerate, leading to the next doctor taking up the reigns for part two. Kinda like Stolen Earth/Journey’s End, except without the crowded side cast, so that both Doctors can get a proper spotlight (and also less lame final words like “I’m regenerating!”).
I felt 14 was ready to die and 15 was the one who chose to bi-gen. In stark contrast to The End of Time, he was surrounded by his loved ones. 15 was the one who saved him and that was his first heroic deed before he even fully regenerated. The bigeneration was a impossible thing that became possible because he was still in Toymaker's state of play where reality is not fixed so so-called myths and superstitions can become real, and 15 tricked the Toymaker by making it 2 against one like you brought up and Toymaker couldn't hack it. Tennant also confirmed that in the commentary the bigen happened because of the Toymaker.
That's a good way of looking at the victory, I'm really glad to have these comments and conversations because it helps me settle into my opinions on all of these aspects
Totally agree with this comment. I think this move was perfect, because it implies that the healthier version of the Doctor (15) gives the traumatized side of the Doctor a break after all these years of running. So, we’ll get to see a completely different kind of energy from 15, and if it’s anything like Ncuti showed us in the special, I’m all here for it! This also allows showrunners to bring back Tennant for any fun specials, and I really don’t mind it or feel like it detracts from the story. Overall, everything feels like a big win!
@@Joe_Brennan_ The same can be said for the TARDIS being duplicated. It was the Toy maker's .. energy or what have you.. still being in effect.. making the impossible.. possible.
I'm glad they confirmed it's because of the Toymaker. I was fully ready to believe it was a myth because that was what Timelord regeneration was meant to be based on the timeless child before I read that.
I love that this anniversary was all about moving on. Donna got to move on from being the Doctor Donna and not having to die if she remembers her family gets to move on from that. And the Doctor gets to move on in more ways than one literally. The question if bi generation works or not is if we are going to see Tennant again or not he is a fan favorite and this kinda felt like a break glass in case button they can break out and bring him back and I hope that’s not the case unless it’s meaningful. But I’m okay with 14th Doctor and Donna not coming back after this.
Yeah I think I'd rather not see them, or we see 14 for the sake of merging with the normal Doctor. But yeah, definitely not "the continued adventures of Donna and the Doctor" in 2033
@@MammothMoralsI think the Doctor will guest star in the U.N.I.T. spinoff maybe only for finales but wouldn't be surprised if they choose a different Doctor each appearance. They've set up that U.N.I.T. doesn't tell the doctor about future incarnations which means Paul McGann, Matt Smith, Christopher Eccleston, Peter Capaldi and Jodie Whittaker can all come back for an adventure with U.N.I.T. Also doesn't take away from whoever is the main Doctor at the time to have old ones show up in a spinoff.
In defence of the retired 14th Doctor having his own TARDIS… It seems the Tardis is taking him where he wants to go, not where he is needed. In the sense that the First Doctor was the embodiment of a magic children’s literature, Edwardian grandfather, this feels like a deliberate full circle return to that. He is retired and now gets to be a grandfather again having exploratory (but not dangerous) adventures.
That’s a lovely way to put it, she’ll keep him out of trouble for the sake of his retirement. I do wonder what’ll happen next time an apocalypse comes to Earth though
@@Joe_Brennan_well, since 14 and 15 exist at the same time “time”, or meta-time, or at the same part of the Doctor’s timeline, in some sort of loop, any crisis 14 is aware of, 15 can address, whereas previous/later Doctors won’t be aware of it happening, because at their point in the timeline it hasn’t.
Yeah, it reminded me of the Peter Cushing movies where Dr. Who is just a guy who takes his family on time travel adventures sometimes and then they come back home.
It's interesting that you bring up the Companion Support Group. Because, IIRC, Mel was in that group. I could totally see her rocking up one day and being like "Hey everyone, I brought a guest!"
The changing in the Toy Makers accent through the episode is actually a really cool canon nodd, the doctor won the original game by imitating The Toy makers voice, this time round he throws out several voices to specifically avoid being defeated the same way 👍
In fairness that's something the fans have picked up on, which IS clever, but that RTD did not intend - he actually states the reason for the OTT accents is to continue the idea that the Toymaker is racist without the original clothing and title of Celestial from the original. Poor NPH actually had to learn the words written in the script as they are spoken, heavy stereotyped accent and all - props to him for doing so well.
I hadn't heard the leaks, and I thought this plot twist, and what it enabled in terms of the doctors interacting, was brilliant. When 15 comforted 14, I totally bought that the two of them were the same entity. I think it set Ncuti up beautifully for his run.
@@Joe_Brennan_ now, THIS is a really interesting point! I absolutely love David Tennant as The Doctor. I think it’s fair to say that he has always been MY Doctor, but, from the moment he shows up, Ncuti Gatwa’s Doctor is absolutely owning every scene and running rings around Tennant (or at the very least keeping up with him, if you’re feeling particularly stingy about things). Going on screen to take over an iconic role from an actor who a huge section of the fanbase consider to be the GOAT is already a challenge, but to do that whilst the other actor is STILL on screen with you and being so effortlessly charming and charismatic in the part is frankly f**king remarkable!
What resonated with me the most about The Doctor is their drive to help people across the stars while having the desire to settle down with a family. That duality no longer exists and I feel a certain gravitas has been lifted from the character. This episode has fundementally broken my perception of The Doctor and the progam itself.
What I hope is that Ncuti's Doctor will begin his era unburdened by the events of the past, but will then regain his sense of weariness as more stuff happens. It's a chance for the character to develop in front of us, and I think that could be a good thing. But yeah, it's a massive departure.
@@Joe_Brennan_ Hmm, perhaps... I think spiltting The Doctor's duality across two works better from a metatextual perspective than an in-narrative perceptive. Around this time with the Classic run, Who had become rather lore heavy and I think that weight was making the show inprenatrable to new viewers. So, while I do think RTD could've retained that duality in one incarnation, there's a certain logic of "unburdening the Doctor's past" as to not make viewers feel they have to do homework to feel the full weight of the character.
@@epiccarrot88 I'm not sure one's desire for community ever quite goes away but thank you for sharing your perspective. Would you care to further elaborate on your perspective?
I love the bi-generation! The only end that The Doctor gets is rebirth, over and over. The only resolution! This was a story that needed healing, needed family, needed calm and that can't be resolved by regeneration. The scene where 15 embraces 14 is literally the embracing of your inner child made real and I cried ALOT.
As someone who only came back to Who to see the David Tennant specials, I really enjoyed the episodes, and the new start for 15, and watching him in action has made me feel enthusiastic to keep watching. Which considering a few years ago I'd pretty much given up on Doctor Who, is remarkable.
This is such great news! It really justifies giving Ncuti a substantial role in The Giggle, and I hope loads of people have the same experience as you. I hope you enjoy the Christmas special!
I think the Bigeneration stuff would have been perfect if they didn't duplicate the TARDIS. I think instead 14 should have just stayed with the Noble family on Earth with no caveats, and 15 goes off with the TARDIS.
Yeah that's one of the things that makes me the most uneasy, although the idea of little trips with Rose and Wilf (maybe even Sylvia) does warm my heart
@@Joe_Brennan_ I didn't like it at first, but I think it would have been too cruel to take the TARDIS away after it and the Doctor had been together for so many years and it was his home the entire time. I see it as the Doctor now has a home that Gallifrey never was after he left. He has people to return to. So even though he does take jaunts with the TARDIS, he's no longer constantly running.
Since I subscribe to the “snatched from the future” interpretation of Bi-generation, I’m also choosing to consider 15’s TARDIS as from the future as well (which would explain the additions like the ramp and jukebox). One day, when 14 eventually dies, both him and the TARDIS will poof out of existence and end up shunted back in time to the finale of the Giggle. It definitely makes it easier to swallow for me.
@@EditedAF987 I think this is the take I like most. It's what the episode implies too - 15 is the Doctor after stopping and relaxing, so the implication is 14 will eventually die after his rest, and turn up as 15 at the UNIT helipad.
I found the idea of the doctor finally allowing himself to stop and deal with his trauma and loss incredibly emotionally resonating for me, especially as someone who is struggling with mental health myself. That the doctor can show weakness and accept he needs a break was beautiful, i also loved the genuine affection and care between the two doctors. Bigeneration was more than worth it for the character moments it allowed, even if it might mess up a wiki.
I really appreciate your positivity and optimism. Even if you don't particularly like something you don't just dismiss it or hate on it, you give it the benefit of the doubt and try to see the good in it, and you don't let it ruin your experience as a whole. Very refreshing indeed. Keep up the good work.
Been really enjoying these videos! Nice to have you and your viewers here to reflect upon the episodes and share perspectives with without having to venture in the murky waters that exist in some parts of the fandom. Would be happy for more if you want to make them, if not, thanks for these ones. ☺️
I liked The Giggle, felt very Moffat, the 'everybody lives' but applied to the Doctor. I think its great we're seeing more of Mel, giving a less popular companion more attention, I'm interested to see how she will factor in Series 14. While I think the ball game could have been more interesting I think it will be really popular with kids. The final shot of the episode being Ncuti really hammers the point of him being the future.
I’m really curious to see the entirety of the 15th Doctors season because it seems to me that a lot of the plot lines in these specials will carry over into the 15th doctors run. I think we will be given a lot of context for what has happened so far that will put everything into a different perspective. The first and third special were obviously hinting at a larger villain and I think they will tie up the 14th Doctors story at some point. It seems like the 15 doctor has come back from a future point to get his past self on the right track which means the timeline will probably sort its self out and there will be one doctor again. RTD has proven in the past that he can write effective intricate plots and bring elements from his writing together to make a satisfying, overarching story. I really want to see what this run looks like once it’s completed. Honestly I really like the idea that a future version of the Doctor has come back to give their past self the time and space they need to recover from all their trauma and self destructive habits. I also like how kind and hopeful the ending was. It felt needed. Our world has been so dark and depressing in the last few years so giving these characters, who have been suffering and losing everything after only ever trying to do good and help people, a genuinely happy ending felt comforting and well deserved. Plus it gives the new doctor a clean slate to just be a nomadic, idealistic madman with a box again instead of just a broken, war weary, god. I don’t think they will just ignore the doctors past, but will no longer allow them to wallow in it and punish themselves for things that were beyond their control.
Yeah you're right about how a happy and hopeful ending is a refreshing thing, I've seen people treating its positivity as a point against it, but I really don't think that's true. An ending can be satisfying even if no one dies.
The way I read it is that when 14 dies he resumes from the point where they split but from 15’s perspective. The only reason I read it this way is because 15 says he’s better because 14 took the time to heal which means that it’s still one time stream. If this is actively disproven then I don’t think I’ll like it but for now I think that’s how I’m gonna read it in which case I like it.
Yeah I only saw that line pointed out on Twitter AFTER I filmed the video but I really like seeing it that way. The way Ncuti is healed not by dumping all the burden onto Tennant, but by working through it AS Tennant. It’s all wibbly wobbly timey wimey enough that we can kind of let it mean whatever we want.
The optics of the first two black Doctor’s only co-existing with their white counterparts is shaky to say the least. However in the episode itself it works as a piece of television and Ncuti is so charismatic and lovely I’m not really thinking too hard tbh.
Yeah that was on my mind as well, although hopefully in the show it won't feel like co-existence any more than the fact that every Doctor is always out in the timeline somewhere. Christmas will come along and it'll be Ncuti's show, which is something Jo Martin deserved.
I loved the giggle and I find it funny that RTD took a jab at modern society with the self opinionated and the bit where everyone thinks they’re right all the time.
Thoroughly enjoyed all three specials, thanks to David and Catherine’s chemistry and RTD’s writing. Haven’t felt this invested in the show since Christopher Eccleston. As for Ncuti, he absolutely nailed the character of the Doctor in his first few seconds on screen. I didn’t hate the bi-regeneration, still processing it. Enjoying your spontaneous videos and would be great to see them when Ncuti’s series starts.
Tennant is now in the same place as Matt Smith where they can bring them back without ever worrying about age. Any multi-doc special can pick up Tennant from Earth and Smith from Trenzalore and they'd both be age appropriate. Not sure how I feel about bi-regeneration overall and how much of it gets a pass because it's RTD and Tennant (imagine the exact same thing was done by Chibnall and Whittaker).
At first, I thought seeing one TARDIS being "spawned" from another was a bit weird. However, I then recalled we've already seen the TARDIS bi-generating (tri-generating, actually) as the guest Doctors go their separate ways at the end of The Five Doctors... albeit without the aid of a "magic mallet".
It wasn't a magical mallet; the Tardis could split because we've always seen the doctor's regeneration affect the Tardis and make it go through its own "regeneration". Also toymakers residual magic I think 15 said.
@@saniwada Cloning a TARDIS by whacking it with a wooden mallet is ridiculous - it's a time-machine, after all, not a fairground "test your strength" machine. Whilst it didn't ruin my enjoyment of the story, I've got very little time or patience with magic of any description in Doctor Who.
@@ftumschk in a Bi-generation story the Tardis cloning itself is the least weird part, the doctor split himself in 2 like an amoeba. and like i said before it has already established long before this episode that the Tardis and the doctors regenerations are connected. Its allways been a magic machine.
Still don’t get why Wilf was immune from the giggle but Kate wasn’t, he only traveled in the TARDIS twice but so did Kate (and her trips likely lasted longer)
Wilf was always outside looking at the stars or like in this episode out shooting at the moles and stuff, maybe because he wasn't always in front of a screen? They didn't really say cos Donna reacted to Mel singing the tune like everyone else in the room but wasn't affected cos of the TARDIS travel which I'd imagine only takes one time so with Kate idk. Maybe running UNIT made her more susceptible. She does comment on how her brain activity was high due to the circumstances or something like that whereas Wilf was fairly carefree by comparison. Idk.
Who said he wasn't? Purely my head canon, but: when we see him at the end of Wild Blue Yonder he says he "I knew it" "I told them to bunker down". He sat there and waited, thinking...knowing he was right. As for why he wasn't angry or aggressive, in my head it's because he is such a pure and kind character. 14 says "this was already in you all", referring to the anger, but Wilf has never shown himself to a person driven by those things. You could also argue that his few trips in the TARDIS means that it just didn't effect him as much.
@@samdunstan563 Donna asks why she and wilf aren’t infected. And from what we saw it doesn’t matter how good you are it will Affect you the same- and Kate travelled just as much as Wilf did (arguably longer)
If I had a nickel for every time Tennant has started to regenerate, only to then split into two versions of The Doctor and one of them goes on to live a regular life with his companion... I didn't know about the Bi-generation going in so it was a genuine wtf moment for me. After it happened, I got a similar feeling to when I've had issues with the Meta-crisis. But I have less problems with this and I think it's a neat way of keeping things fresh and surprising. Like how The Doctor Falls could've been an ending for the show, this seems to be Russell's attempt at an ending. I feel the impact of David's Doctor staying with Donna could be slightly undercut by the fact that Ncuti's Doctor is still running around. The Doctor gets a happy ending, except they also don't. But unlike when Ten left the Meta-crisis Doctor to live his life, Fifteen seems much happier. The Bi-generation has left him unburdened and free to start anew. As for the episode itself, it was really good. NPH as always looked like he was having a blast and I love seeing him do his thing. Hope he comes back. I think this special perfectly sets him up as a recurring villain.
I’m just so glad Doctor Who is being bold and interesting again. Every week, the past three weeks, there’s been something new to talk about. I haven’t had that pleasure in ages. It’s actually trying out stuff, being inventive, taking risks and exploring their implications. I’m just happy I care so much again.
The Doctor is supposed to be the same character that's why the idea of 14 stopping for some time to feel better to eventually become 15 works, but it doesn't in this story because even if the dialogue implies that 15 is in 14's future (which is something RTD never explicitly says) most people got the idea that they are two independent beings. I feel like this will probably mean that each Doctor will not be treated as a singular character anymore and I'm not sure I like that.
I know RTD's work well so I 100% see the bigeneration as a metaphor for queer trauma. For all of new who the doctor has dealt with the trauma of loss and the time war. Now he gets a chance to process it through friends and chosen family. Much like RTD has done in the decades following the AIDS crisis
That's a really beautiful interpretation. I love that a lot. I saw someone else liken it to how many of us are just running of fumes after the emotionally and physically draining pandemic that left us no time to reflect on anything. I'm so Who-brained that I forgot to even look for an allegory there and just nodded like "yes Dr Who is quite tired..."
The Time War is not a metaphor for the AIDS crisis. The LGBT community does not own the concept of trauma or rehabilitation. The LGBT+ community finds a way to turn everything into a metaphor or allegory. This is complete jargonite gobbledygook.
@@Joe_Brennan_ It's also really great to have a new doctor straight out of the gate confident and joyful. I've grown so sick of a doctors first episode have him fumbling about or in bed for the whole episode. I think it's no coincidence that in ncuti's first episode he sees millie across the dance floor of a club. Much like how RTD first met his future husband in a club in 1998. (though I hope their relationship isnt romantic)
Secondly, this now means David Tennant can return for the 75th anniversary specials. In all seriousness, though, at some point, this will have to be reconciled. Gatwa's Doctor implied that he has the benefits of the long mental health break that Tennant's Fourteenth Doctor will take. Perhaps a hypothetical 75th anniversary story will be like Logopolis, where The Watcher joins with the Fourth Doctor, which triggers the regeneration. Then the BBC just needs to push David Tennant's wheelchair on-screen for the 100th anniversary specials.
Really nice analysis, and I really appreciate your back-and-forth on the bi-generation. I can totally understand people feeling like Ncuti has been done a disservice by having his predecessor still knocking about (especially given that it's fan favourite David Tennant), and with him being the first black actor to play a mainline Doctor, the optics maybe aren't that great.. However, I actually think that in his time onscreen, Ncuti is actually the one that overshadows Tennant - like you say, he just has it. He is instantly the Doctor, arriving fully-formed and just feels like a real burst of energy that is going to propel the show forward. I adore the dynamic between him and Tennant, getting to see them bounce off of one another and share in the pure joy and confusion of what has just happened. In his first scene, Gatwa honestly feels much more like the dominant presence of the two to me - he is the one that tells 14 'Hey, it's okay, you did good.' and they share some really lovely moments where he helps him through. It's testament to Gatwa's talent and screen presence that you immediately fall in love with him and buy him as this character, and also to Tennant for absolutely letting Ncuti have those scenes, knowing that they should rightly belong to him. The main reason I can get on board with this bi-generation (other than it being a fresh spin on something that we've seen play out dozens of times before), is that, for all its sci-fi technobabble, it is an idea firmly rooted in narrative, character and theme. The previous two specials both played with the themes of identity and duality, and this works as some nice thematic foreshadowing for what we get here. I like the very meta aspect of an anniversary being a time to look back but also to look forward, and here we get a very literal example of that. I know some feel that this whole thing makes Ncuti not a 'proper' Doctor and more of a clone etc., but I don't think either of them are meant to be perceived as more or lesser than the other, because they are both just the Doctor - two things can be true at once. It would have been nice over the course of these specials to have had a bit more of a sense of 14 as this weary traveller that's been running himself thin, in order to give this character arc a bit more of a satisfying pay-off. But I really like the idea that 15 emerges from this without any of these burdens, after helping his former self to work through all of that. Self-help in the most literal sense - timey-wimey therapy. It also would have been nice to get a bit more of an in-universe explanation for why this has happened (although of course that may come later). Similarly, I'm not sure I buy the resolution to the mystery of 14's face coming back being so he can settle down with Donna's family - feels a little too over-emotional and doesn't hit like it could have... I'm interested to see where things go from here and I imagine this isn't the last that we'll see of 14 - whether that's his own spin-off, popping up in a UNIT spin-off, or (less likely) in the main show itself. But I like that for now we've kind of wrapped up things with 14, and even though we haven't said goodbye to him permanently as we may be used to, the focus is most definitely on 15's adventures - so even if you're not on board with this, I don't think it's going to be all that important to Ncuti's stories going forward. We've got this clean break, it's the Doctor, in the TARDIS, having adventures. Christmas can't come soon enough!
Thank you so much for this comment, it’s really great and thoughtful. I think you’re right in everything you say, and the more I think of bi-generation through the lens that it is just as much in service of Ncuti as it is of David (if not more), the more it all starts to feel right
Love these videos Joe, I think the format was a big success as long as you have the energy to talk about it. Positive vibes and good conversation even for stuff that you don’t 100% love is good fun.
I’m really happy to have this kind of feedback from a long term member of the jboi army. Means I’ve not abandoned my true fans by shifting the format a little.
I think the fact he has his own TARDIS and is staying with Donna (especially given the discussion at the dinner table) is actually a sign that this Doctor doesn't want to adventure more. This is how a show gets rid of a character without killing them or having regenerate. It works as well because we have only known David's Doctor as particularly traumatized and so people can go back and watch 10 and while it will be different it will be familiar. Doctor Who has for a long time struggled with getting rid of characters in non violent/sad ways and this is a tool that allows that for the Doctor and now that idea of a soft exit can be more explored in other characters. Quote from RTD about 14 The ending is very simple, actually. It’s not much of a tease. It means David is parked. David [Tennant] is living in France. We’ve got a happy Doctor who is no longer saving the universe, but that’s parked with Donna for a happy life. While THE Doctor, which is always the next Doctor, and that’s always true of Doctor Who, the Doctor is the next Doctor, is out amongst the stars. He’s flying off. He’s going to have a companion. It’s going to be there on Christmas Day. It’s going to be very exciting. I’m going to say goblins and enormous fun to come.
@@Joe_Brennan_I think personally I would love if we got like a future regeneration of 14 just running a shop or something randomly in an episode, proof he's fully retired from adventuring and even after the Nobles he stayed settled... I think Tenant has had his time, but this version of the doctor exists now and deserves to be recognized occasionally
This sincerely might just be one of my favourite episodes of the show, period. I’ll have to give it some time before entirely committing to that, but I can at least say that Neil Patrick Harris’s Celestial Toymaker most certainly is a new favourite. He captures everything you want in a Who villain; campy, menacing and ultimately just an absolute riot to watch! That dance sequence was just magnificently silly! And as for the story itself, I gotta say that twist at the end (I’ll try and stay spoiler-light, but maybe wait to read this next bit if you haven’t seen it), is actually something that really worked for me; despite the controversy in the fandom it’ll no doubt cause. It’s an anniversary, after all, so wrapping everything up in a nice little bow is honestly just a perfect send-off to me; I mean, as the characters literally pointed out, David Tennant’s Doctor has earned his swan-song! And Ncuti Gatwa… I already know I’m going to love his Doctor. We’ve never really had a Doctor (minus Christopher Eccleston’s 9 I suppose, due to his off-screen regeneration) introduced with such a definitive sense of who they are. And man do I like it. Comforting, vibrant and ultimately radiating fun: yeah, this guy’s gonna be good! So yeah, safe to say I loved it. As a whole, the 60th anniversary itself was not what I expected but, despite going into this episode with uncertainty on whether it could stick the landing, it gives me an innumerable amount of joy when I say that this gave me everything I wanted and more. Doctor Who is never going to be objectively perfect, but this is pretty damn perfect to me. Now, let’s bring on Christmas!!!!
Thank you for de video! I personally really loved the episode. The scene where ncuti's doctor hugs david's doctor and comforts him made me so emotional. And it is very nice to have a character that went through sooo much get the chance to settle down, enjoy retirement with a lovely family :))) while we also get the new doctor starting anew, freed of all the trauma of what happened in the past 20 or so years of doctor who.
NPH styling over UNIT for 3 minutes was hilarious, terrifying and magnificent. This was a brilliant trilogy ending with 14 taking a gap-life off and the resulting healed 15 erupting into space reborn. I cant wait for the xmas special!
Using the anniversary specials to reboot the show was a great idea. I thought the three episodes were a triumph and really enjoyable. The only problem is that the Earth is being destroyed all the time and the 14th Doctor will be on Earth with his two companions who work for UNIT. Realistically, he wouldn't sit around and watch, would he? Also, why didn't the ray gun kill him? He got shot by the most powerful gun on the planet and then won a game of catch.
I feel the bi-generation works in the story, it allows 15 to move on without being chained to the past. Allows that trauma to be healed etc BUT I worry outside of the show, this puts a bit sword hanging over Ncuti, if The Mouse is not happy with how he is going it's so easy for them to just bring Tennant back in whenever and totally undercutting him. Imagine the stinger to save the day in his finale being Tennant rocking up and taking the spotlight
@Voxeril This was literally my takeaway too. That these 3 specials were kinda intended to leave Gutwa's Doctor Who as essentially a reboot, standing entirely aside from the character arcs etc that have built up since 2005, as well as being a nice standalone season for Disney to start with - but with that looming reality that if they really want to backtrack then Tennant is still there to do so. It was both quite bold, and disarmingly 'safe', and I don't quite know how to feel about that.
That's true, a little bit of a scary thought. Hopefully Ncuti is already well into production of his second season so there's clearly some confidence there, our opinions be damned
So 14 has all the trauma to heal and 15 can just go on care free? How does that work when they are both the DR, both with the memories of the past, how can 15 be like i don't want any of this trauma, you keep it 14 so i can start fresh.
Around 17 minutes in you voiced my major concern, I’m wondering if the bi-generation aspect will diminish the strength of Ncuti’s doctor. Dare I say, I can imagine the new series bringing back David’s doctor to support Ncuti in some way… reducing him in the way that the extended ‘fam’ supporting Jodie’s doctor made her somehow less. Hope that makes sense? But hope more that I’m totally wrong about this!
This is something that on paper I’d be really worried about and in some ways I still have the concerns, but Russell has said that Tennant won’t be at all in the new Season. And honestly, rewatching the episode, Ncuti seems in no danger of being overshadowed when sharing the stage with that Doctor. He can hold his own so impressively well.
I agree with you but leaning on slightly more positive on bi-generation. I think it's a good, mental health positive end to the arc exploring 14's trauma that really built up over the specials, whilst also setting up for the future. Also: audio drama/comic potential with 14 and those he lives with. I want a 14 and Rose Noble adventure! My only real concern is people not fully accepting 15 as the current doctor but we already have previous doctor spinoff content coming out, so as long as the next series focusses on him.. very exciting!
I’d love comic or novel stuff with the comfy 14 adventures, although I wouldn’t want them to get up to much typical Doctor Who conflict. The reason to do it on a page is so Wilf can be involved.
Loved seeing your thought process playout in seemingly real-time re. the Bi-Regen! Loved this episode and feel your concerns with the ending, but overall feeling very positive about it
Yeah it was fun doing a video on something that my opinion was shifting on so organically as I spoke about it. I’m definitely leaning more towards positivity now though. Excited to rewatch!
Glad it's not just me! I struggled to enjoy Ncuti's Bugs Bunny antics with the big mallet because I was going "oh don't give him a TARDIS......" once I adjust I may end up loving it
@@Joe_Brennan_Not to mention that everyone seems to downplay how any TARDIS is a living creature. The TARDIS herself has got a history and dreams of her own, as so beautifully portrayed in The Doctor's Wife. Now there are two, and we don't even know the implications because the TARDIS is the most underdeveloped character that almost always serves to be the McGuffin that gets the plot where it needs to go, literally. And we're never going to know because the most loyal companion of them all, the one who literally chose her pilot like a dragon their rider, does not get any room to breathe. Oh and apparently coffee can bring a highly sophisticated machinery out of whack, while today's phones are near waterproof. Et cetera. I seem to always be the only one to complain about this.
I guess the coffee being spilled was mostly only a problem because the TARDIS was new and had its guards down. I have heard people say that this isn't another TARDIS, but the same TARDIS at different points in time. I guess that does explain the jukebox differences, but it definitely is complicated
@@Joe_Brennan_Actually, while I'm moping about the treatment of any TARDIS, what about the one that got sent to die in the void with a belly full of Daleks? You went to Gallifrey, basically rescued another TARDIS from the annihilation of Gallifrey, and then just sent her off to die, even after being all tender with the one she left somewhere disguised as a tree. You can't have both ways.
It's to shoe horn in possible Tennant returns, I didn't mind it, but it literally only exists to keep Tennant around so RTD can bring him back any time he wnats
I really enjoyed it. Your videos are probably the furthest into DW fandom as I get, so i didn't know about the Bi-generation until it happened but I really like the idea. I like that we can know the Doctor took this time with a family to heal without flashing forward to a time that he's healed but his time with the Noble's has to end with Donna dying of old age or something and 14 being retraumatized in that way before becoming 15. We an enjoy the idea of 14 living an idyllic life where he can can heals so he can continue having adventures later in life as 15. I think Ncuti's line of saying he's okay because 14 did that healing for him kinda makes that work for me and makes me see them as one continuous character rather than a 10 and 10-2 situation. I wish 14 wasn't left with a TARDIS but it doesn't ruin anything for me. I hope we don't see 14 in any future onscreen stories. The most I'd be happy with is 15 asking Mel if he's doing okay when we see her in future stories. Just a thought I was having as you were talking about the "Not my Doctor" viewers reactions. I feel like Russell might've scared most of them off with any "woke" writing was in the first 2 specials anyway and they probably don't care too much for 14 but could be wrong. But I also feel writing a story to dampen the worst reactions of some of the angrier fans is one of the reasons we ended up with TROS in the first place so I'm glad Russell didn't feel like he wanted to cater to that group.
"The bi-regeneration is less of a magical split and more of a timey wimey fuckery where Fifteen arrives early having already benefitted from the soul searching and healing that Fourteen hasn't done yet, and Fourteen will always be destined to eventually 'become' him" that was a quote i saw on twitter that made me come around on the whole thing. it makes the line "were timelords. were doing rehab out of order" make a lot more sense. although if this is how its supposed to be then they didnt do a very good job explaining it
That would be fine but thats not the explanation that RTD gives in commentary, hes suggested that all the doctors have bi generated and now they all exist independently
@charg1nmalaz0r51 in the commentary Russell said it was his theory. It's not baked into the text of the script, so fans can still choose whether they want to accept that line of reasoning or not.
8:32 how to beat the toy maker Step 1 make a steam account and purchase tabs Step 2 unlock the dark peasant Step 3 make a custom level with a 30 unit limit, unlimited money, the only unit allowed is peasants, and to win you must defeat the dark peasant who’s in the middle of the map Step 4 restrict him from accessing settings and give him 1 try only Step 5 unplug your keyboard and mouse when he starts the game You win I think
@@Joe_Brennan_ yes, he can’t even win, or try again because you pulled out the plug, someone please tell me how anyone loses to this guy when they have the technology to make an impossible game, level in a game official editor, modded level, unfair rules in a card game that make him lose twice as much as you when you make a bad move, or anything rigged for him to fail at, watch let me try. Here’s a game it’s called you can’t be near me. You failed because the game started when I started talking and you were on the same planner as me.
My opinion on bigeneration is story wise that 15 didn't WANT to live with the trauma anymore, so he left it behind with 14. I do hope something is do e with 14 or else it seems like a cop out of sorts.
Yeah I hope we have a while enjoying Ncuti as the main and only Doctor, but I would some day like a bit of closure on this. I’m happy with implied closure for now though.
Ncuti Gatwa is THE Doctor. The bigeneration allows the doctor to forgive himself and heal, while moving on with a lot less baggage. The sheer JOY of 15 is phenomenal.
I like the idea that 14 is the part of the doctor that holds onto the past, so casting him out frees 15 onwards. I also like the idea that 14 would be the one to go see all the left behind companions and just be friends, go on the occasional trip and let them enjoy their lives as well
The doctor is always existing in multiple places through time. We had a whole special where all the doctors appeared at the same time. They are all time travelers and therefore are always existing throughout time together. No difference with David Tennant living on earth compared to doctors traveling around time.
An interesting point from the commentary is that Phil points out Davies was going to do bigeneration before… which if you consider Journey’s End was supposed to be Davies last story, means that Rose was supposed to have a proper Doctor in her universe.
I loved the bigeneration. I get people's concerns about how it might affect the show and the fans wanting Tennant back yet again, but the emotional experience of watching the episode outweighs all of that for me. It was the same with 10's comments about him dying and another man walking away. 10 had so much potential for joy but his actual life ended up being mostly tragedy, and after only 3 in-universe years of being him, he finds out he doesn't get to be that version of himself anymore and live up to that potential. That was some juicy emotional storytelling for me, so him coming back as 14 and being allowed to live on, get some therapy and be happy for a while was great. That said, if 14 goes on to ignore his trauma and become the Valeyard or some shit, I'm going to throw hands
Oh yeah the worst thing they could do now is undercut his closure with some big lore shite like that. I do like the idea that he eventually becomes the Curator, but I'd prefer it if he just merged back eventually
I really don't understand this framework, and I've seen it before, why does it matter if he has the same face? the doctor is the character not the actor, the change of face was just a method of streamlining a recast, I understand the attachment to a specific actor or portrayal of the character, but its been made clear in universe multible times even by tennant in this very episode, that regeneration is not death, 10s life didn't end he just became 11, just like I used to be a teenager and I became an adult, if there was still a teenage version of me running around that would be weird, and thats basically whats happened a bunch of past versions of the doctor are now frozen in their character, they are denied the development we've gotten, and that feels both like it takes away from the many sacrifices of the doctor but also from him being a continous person, and its the second time russel has done this just to give tennant's variant of the doctor a happy ending. I also liked these episodes, and the interactions between Ncuti and David, I liked the character beats, and even the concept of him being pulled out of time or tennant taking a break before becoming Ncuti are all great, but this retroactive restoration of the past versions of the doctor as seperate people just takes away so much from the potential stakes of future episodes and the hardships of the past ones. I'm sure something good can be done with it, but as it stands the explanation we've gotten really doesn't sit well with me.
@@Photons_Dont_Matter_Much The change of face isn't just a recast though, it's a reshuffling of the character and their traits, usually reflecting something about who they are at the time. 10 is very romantic to reflect his relationship with Rose at the time of his taking that face. 11 is very young and whacky to reflect that he's in denial about who he is and the trauma he's been through. 12 is older and more abrasive to reflect that he's sick of running from who he is and now wants to find out what kind of person he is underneath all the masks. 12 even resisted regenerating into 13 at first because he was so tired of having to keep being a new person and going through that process of self-discovery. When they regenerate, the (usually) fully-rounded person they were gets buried under a layer of dissociation and a new version of them becomes dominant. The Doctor isn't a continuous person, their personality gets disintegrated and reformed every time they go through the traumatic experience of dying. It's very Dissociative Identity Disorder-ish. It matters that the Doctor had a previous face (not necessarily Tennant's) for all this because it gets across that the dissociated trauma has returned to the surface so it can finally be released. And since we know the Curator exists and has 4's face, the implication is that 14 will continue to regenerate into old faces and do the same with all of their trauma too. You don't have to like it but it made perfect sense to me and I was really moved by the theme of healing from buried trauma.
@@mirawest8510 regeneration is and has been a metaphor for character development, each doctor is shaped by the events of their lives, and it plays out in who they become when they regenerate, as you said, this is my trouble with the plotline, it undoes this, it undoes all the character development it undoes all the sacrifices the doctor made, becuase now 9 doesn't flies off with rose, 10 doing face his death, 11 and clara keep traveling, 12 has puddle bill, and 13 can go date yaz, every sorrow, loss, defeat, and sacrifice has now undone, how does that help the characters? how does this make sense? its not anything that happened with Ncuti, David, or the episode itself, its with the implications, of undoing so many events just to keep david around? when there could have been time shananigains, heck its even implied that there was, but no. its not that I just don't like it, I don't like lots of things, its not that its new or different, or that it doesn't work for the current situation, (as you said it works well for david and Ncutis story), its not that there are allternate versions of the doctor, its that everything that was done could have been without the retroactive undevelopment.
@@Photons_Dont_Matter_Much How does it undo anything? Those Doctors still did everything they did in the past. It's just that now the 14 that split off and stayed behind can process their trauma. They're not changing the past, they're coming to terms with it
the challenge we now have is we know The Doctor cant sit by and let bad things happen. So the next time the world is under treat an the 15th Doctor is helping to save the word, then you have to ask yourself "What is Tennant doing?, just hanging out in the back yard watching the world burn?"
I loved the Giggle. I don’t think it was completely flawless, but there was a lot to enjoy. I’m even into the idea of bi-generation, mostly because it gives the Doctor the opportunity to have a past, but also to be looking toward the future unburdened by it. It’s a neat little metaphor for how I’m hoping the new series will go. I would also like to see more of these videos for the new series! Yours is one of the few channels I actually am interested in hearing the reactions to Doctor Who
I love the idea of 14 settling down on earth permanently. That being said, he’s still the Doctor, and any time earth was threatened or invaded, he’d defend it. Upon typing this I’m realizing that the President of the Earth is there full time now, and surely he’d have to deal with that. So truthfully anytime there’s an emergency on Earth he’d be there, with 15 or the future regens. But obviously they can’t do that, otherwise the doctor would never have to come to Earth again…
I think they’ve stretched the idea of regeneration so far it’s quite wild, but then again the doctor used up a regeneration cycle back in Journeys End which created the meta crisis doctor which created two seperate doctors, so it’s not like we haven’t seen this before, it’s just been done in a way we haven’t seen before.
to be fair there is always all the doctors existing at the same time. but for me i really liked the bi regeneration because it allows 15 to feel fresh and new, and do something never before done for the doctor, be happy. it reminds me of series 10, which to me still feels like the newest series in years.
Yeah that's a conclusion I kind of land on towards the end of the video, both points. Once I realised how bi-generation could be just as much in service of Ncuti's Doctor as it is of David's, it all kind of clicked for me.
I like to imagine that the toymaker caused the bigeneration. He made a mess of the doctor's history, intentionally turning it into a "jigsaw puzzle" and it backfired in the weirdest way possible.
I quite like the bi-generation, but totally get how some don't. The way I'm seeing it in my head is that the Doctor kinda did regenerate and Ncuti is THE Doctor, but 14 just got a happy ending instead of dying. I love the complicated tragedy of regeneration, but I also like that this one was turned on it's head and we got a joyful one for once. I adore DT, but I really hope we don't see his "parked" Doctor again for at least a few seasons (if at all) and the way RTD talks about it gives me hope that will happen, he seems fully invested in Ncuti. I also really like the headcanon that 14 eventually becomes the Curator. In the long run I think having a Doctor who has shed his trauma will be good going forward (for him to undoubtably pick up new trauma) and will help new fans coming onto the show, similar to how the Time War refreshed the show at the beginning of the revival. Ultimately I think these 3 specials have been a bridge into the next era of Doctor who, packing up all of 2005-2022 and not disregarding it or erasing it but sending it off lovingly to live on in the background while a new story starts. And because Ncuti isnt a replacement for DT, audiences aren't gonna enter the new season feeling grief, like a lot of us did with Matt Smith. Therefore I think a lot of people are actually gonna be on board with it. It's a weird change and I get why some people don't like it. But personally I have a lot of hope for the next era.
This is exactly how I'm feeling. As much as David is my Doctor and it's been lovely to have him back, I would be happy never seeing the 14th again. He is off living his quiet life with his family. I imagine he'll be asking Mel and Donna what's going on at work (at UNIT) and them shushing him and sending him off to see what Wilf is up to in the garden. Like when someone retires.
Hi Joe, I have loved these 3 commentary style videos and have actively looked forward to them after the episode, please please keep them up for the next season(s)
To me Bi-generation, just feels like a way to make it so David Tennant doesn’t die, for some reason, Russell has had an adversity to having him move on and except the change. I don’t like it
Yeah imagining that being the justification was definitely one of the reasons I was so against it at first. Although I'm now a bit more optimistic that it serves Ncuti as well.
my second favourite part of every week has been watching your reviews of the episode, so please please keep doing these when s15 comes out!! weekly you is almost just as good as doctor who. as for my thoughts, for the first time ever im excited for doctor who in a way thats different from my excitement for the 60th, its rekindled a love and enjoyment I thought I was only capable of as a kid. im 18 now and if i look back, the last good episode of doctor who was when I was 12, and thats heartbreaking but also so incredible that I get to watch all these now! ncuti is going to be incredible, and as for bi-generation, as you said, all of the doctors are everywhere all the time, so whether david is down the street or not it doesnt change the weight of his sacrifices or those of his companions, this break marks the renewal of the doctor in my eyes and im excited to see where russel brings this character next! and to me this is nothing new, remember in season 6 when matt smith had his very brief time lord victorious speech about being able to go and help rose tyler with her homework among other things? its always been the case that the doctor is everywhere everywhen, and part of his sacrifice is to live life linearly, and thats what makes the moments we have with them and their companions (i may have said he in this comment but im too lazy to go back and replace it with them but that was my intention! sorry, im quite tired lol) special and irreplaceable, and we saw the consequences of him meddling with that in hell bent, so like you said i dont think this breaks canon. and with a lot of RTD things, and with the show as a whole, its all ridiculous and its all made up and as long ss it doesnt contradict what came before (cough cough chibbers) then ill embrace it. and if it means we get 20 incredible minutes of ncuti as a preview then im never going to disagree with that. im more excited for season 1 than i was for the 60th and that isnt the conclusion i was expecting, but i very much think it was the conclusion russel wanted, and i feel like the show is back in safe hands and Im no longer worried and depressed about what the next episode is going to bring, im just excited to discover more and to meet ncuti properly. again, much love to you and your content, thank you for adding on even more to the thrilling ride that was the 60th, and looking forward to seeing you again at christmas!!!
Thank you for this really lovely comment, it means a lot to be part of the weekly viewing experience. I hope you continue to enjoy both Doctor Who and my coverage of it.
I’m kind of interested to see how or if this gets resolved. Will there be two separate diverging Doctors going forward? What happens if 14 regenerates? I’m personally kind of hoping they have it so they eventually ‘fuse’ back together like how the Watcher did in Logopolis. Maybe when 15 eventually regenerates they could merge and become the 16th Doctor. I was kind of hoping they’d explain why 10’s face came back in the specials but they never did answer that. I hope that gets explained eventually too. My biggest concern is actually the whole copying the Tardis thing tbh. I hope this doesn’t mean the Doctor’s Tardis is made less unique. In a way the Tardis is a character in herself it would be a shame if she’s no longer the same ship we’ve been travelling with throughout the entire show and expanded media. I get they copied her but I still feel a bit uncomfortable by this decision almost more than splitting the Doctor.
Yeah on the one hand I think eventually merging the Doctors back together would ease my thoughts on this. On the other, I think it’s better for the show to just keep moving forward. As for the TARDIS, I’ve heard people say that they haven’t really split it in two so much as it’s just the same TARDIS at two points in time. I quite like looking at it that way.
@@Joe_Brennan_ There's been a lot of comments on this, but I think they're doing something where when tennant dies he goes back to the moment he regenerated into Ncuti, and Ncuti remembers everything that went on in 14's time living with on Earth. That's why Ncuti said "I'm ok because you fix yourself", his Doctor remembers all the therapy 14 went through, and that's why he's able to be such a positive character.
It feels like since the renewed regeneration cycle on Trenzalore, the show has been treading dangerous ground in how it continually introduces new rules for how the Doctor is able to keep existing, such as the Timeless Child and bi-generation. It's been doing so as early as the Meta-Crisis Doctor, but the circumstances were quite specific on that one. Hell, even Twelve mocked death as being a man flu for Time Lords. I'm glad it meant Fourteen had his own happy ending, but the bigger picture is very complicated. It feels like the worldbuilding is running a bit too wild with the process of regeneration and Time Lords as a whole. Giggle was a huge yay, bi-generation was a nay, these videos are a yay.
I think people are being unfair in judging the success of the bigeneration on some future consequence that hasn't happened yet. Most of the criticism of it seems to be that it's not fair to keep Tennant around, that he can now keep coming back whenever he likes (as if the Metacrisis Doctor didn't already establish that, and Whittaker regenerating into Tennant proves we don't need an established idea anyway!) If Tennant gets his own Disney+ spinoff in the next six months and runs alongside Ncuti's era, then that will be the appropriate time to criticise that idea. If he keeps popping back every few episodes to help out, that may feel as though it undermines Ncuti's work. But none of these things have actually happened, and may never happen. So what do people think of THIS? I think having your future self give you a hug and tell you it's gonna be ok is beautiful, and knowing your life is taken care of so now you can just relax and enjoy being with friends is a lovely ending to the whole revived era. That's ultimately all it's about. There's no need for us fans to keep inventing things that haven't happened yet and then getting mad at those things - it's basically Russell's exact point in this episode, with the entire human race thinking they're right. We're fighting with straw men for no good reason.
It needed "breaking"-religious adherence to canon cripples so many shows, and becomes a crutch more than a source of more stuff to pull interesting narrative from. The Doctor is a timelord, or half human, or maybe he's the timeless one, or maybe he is the 15th version, or maybe the first in a new line, or maybe none or these things, and all these things. What matters is he is an alien time traveler in a blue box, with w a companion, going on weekly adventures.😊
I think this is an excellent way of looking at it. As is evident in the video, I end up quite positive on it, and I don’t necessarily mean breaking as a bad thing
I've rewatched the whole 60th special 'series' since coming to terms with how The Giggle ended and a lot of stuff that didn't entirely work for me on the first go around feels a lot more cohesive and right with the context of the entire thing. Thematically it feels like the specials overall are about accepting the past and moving on in a more healthy way, which we see play out with Donna and David Tennant as 14. The meta-crisis being resolved by having Rose and Donna simply choose to let go felt a bit cheap the first time around, but with this thematic angle in mind I think it really works. Donna probably couldn't have let go of it and let go of adventuring with the Doctor fifteen years ago when it was the only thing she really had to live for, but she built a life for herself now and has a daughter. She has attachments to Earth and life beyond the Doctor that she didn't have in Series 4, and this is reiterated in Wild Blue Yonder when she struggles with the idea of being stranded in space forever. Even as she's travelling with her old friend again she continually insists that it's temporary and she's going to move forward with her life on Earth, even though she's happy she has her memories back and the crisis was resolved in a much healthier way. The ability to simply let go of the meta crisis, the way I interpret it, is born from the fifteen years of development we missed, and it foreshadows the end of The Giggle beautifully. On The Doctor's end, we see 14 repeatedly confronted with everything he's running from; not just the fallout of Chibnall's era but all the companions they've lost since Donna, all the people he's failed to save. Wild Blue Yonder shows just how desperately he needs to sit down with Donna and open up but can't bring himself to, how much it gets to him when the version he does confide in is a fake who mocks him. And The Giggle reinforces this with the Toymaker's mocking puppet show of The Doctor's worst post-Donna failures in front of her. 14 overall is a version of 10 who's lived three additional lives and learned a lot from the experience, but he still runs from everything, feeling like there is no other choice. In the end, 15 splitting off from him in a bi-generation allows him to finally stop running and process everything, while a less burdened version of him goes off on new adventures. The 14th Doctor learns to let go of his old lifestyle in a healthy manner just like Donna has. It feels a little weird, given all the buildup made a lot of us think there was some special or sinister reason Tennant's face came back. But I really like the explanation we get here. Deep down, they knew they needed a friend to take it easy with for a while, and subconsciously they knew it could only be Donna Noble. The Bi-generation finally letting the Doctor embody the duality of his need to help the universe and his need to settle down is a great emotional resolution to that thread, even if the logic doesn't fully hold together. Fourteen had two very strange regenerations, and I don't know if they'll ever feel the need to overexplain it, but personally I like the idea that it happened this way because The Doctor has been in a very strange headspace since Flux, and subconsciously knew they needed this, so it's what they got. Man this comment got long but I have a lot of thoughts on this. Hopefully some of my perspective was interesting though! I'll close off by saying that this feels like a response to the way the Moffat era always ended things off with bittersweet tragedies, there's a reason his three main companions were the central act in the Toymaker's puppet show. And while I love all of those exits, it is nice that. Just this once. Everybody lives.
I really like the idea of the bi-generation (i feel like its a one time thing that only happened because of the influence of the toymaker creating chaos) and i think it was really important that donna and 14 didnt finish their runs in a similar way to the way series 4 ended, like i was really prepared for tragedy but im glad that it allows tennants doctors proper closure. Tennant's doctors have always been the most domestic of NuWho and the fact that he's allowed to settle down with his best friend in a mostly human life is so refreshing and clears the slate somewhat for ncuti's doctor. It means that 15 can have that more cheerful/easy-going demeanour without it seeming entirely like a show (which would just be rehashing 11 and 13s way of dealing with trauma) and allowing 15 to be a fresh take on the show.
It seems to me that bi-generation is a bit of a cheat by RTD for no better reason than that he can't bear to let go of (the admittedly very good) David Tennant.
I really do like the idea of a maybe more human version of the doctor being the one to retire with his extended family and David Tennant is a good choice for that- wait didn't they already do that exact thing but with less problems?
big nay for bi-generation. Maintaining Tennant as a second active Doctor who can pop up at any time they are on earth goes against the show's core principal of change and moving on.
So I had this spoiled for me before I watched the special, and as a concept I was super concerned about it undermining 15, but watching it.... I actually really loved it. It felt right at home with the toy maker shenanigans and allowed 14, who seems to be carrying so much of the guilt and loneliness from past events, to have a happy (not-really) ending, and I love that. The dinner scene with the Noble/Temple Family (+Mel) was so satisfying and felt like a kind of closure for me as a viewer with 14 and a lot of the seemingly endless sadness from the past several seasons. I've always had my issues with RTD's writing, but the energy he and Gatwa are bringing is so refreshing and exciting. I'm definitely here for it.
It took me a while to formulate an opinion on it, as I was trying to wrap my head around Bi-generation. But I think after a while, I realized that not only is this far from being the dumbest idea, but Doctor Who has done weird regenerations before, most notably 10 regenerating into himself and creating a clone via meta crisis, and even in classic we had 4th Doctor into 5th Doctor, via merging with The Watcher. So other than that, I think I can confidently say this was Great. My favorite part easily being all of The Toymaker's scenes, NPH's version has easily become one of my favorite DW villains, I genuinely wish we got more of him. Mel's surprise return was nice, she was never my favorite companion but I feel like it makes sense she's working at UNIT as other companions are aswell, plus Mel has always had computer skills that never really got tapped into during either 6 or 7's eras. I'm not quite sure what to make of 15 yet, obviously there's not much to go off of, but he definitely has the charisma, I think it's obvious they're gonna go for the more bubbly Doctor in the same lane as 8 or 13. And now with the specials concluded, I think i can confidently say I like the 14th Doctor, I'd argue if there is gonna be more of him, rather its a spin off or big finish, he'll probably be better than 10 to me. Overall, no matter what people will say, this was a great time, however I wouldn't say its the best anniversary in the world, feels more like an ending to New Who (2005-2023) setting up the Whoniverse with the "New series 1", but I can look pass that and still see work with a bunch of love put into it, and as a sort of ending to New Who, some don't like it, but I think its satifying. And i look foward to 15. Who wins in a dance off, Sacha Dhawan Master or Neil Patrick Harris Toymaker?
Thank you for this great comment, we seem to agree on a fair amount of things. I think the Toymaker’s dance sequence is by far the most impressive so he has to get my vote.
Metacrisis-10-doctor had the closure of being sent to a separate universe. But now whenever there's an existential threat looming over Earth, there's going to be a 14th Doctor hanging out in London just... weirdly... doing nothing to help.
A good way to resolve this could be to have 14 and 15 merge back together once the trauma has been dealt with. 14 essentially slowing down and doing the therapy for 15, while 15 has the big adventures. And 14 can have as long an offscreen lifespan as he wants, given he has a TARDIS.
@@rockallmusic Yeah, i think that would definitely assuage many of my mixed feelings about this. If this was just like, a temporary thing, and once he's worked through his trauma, he'll go. Frankly that's what I was thinking initially, like "Oh, they've split in two, but it's just a temporary thing because 14 is still dying. Right?" Apparently.... no, it isn't, he was just renewed in the same body. And made a new body. And that really undermines Ncuti and that's not fair to him. It's also not fair to 14, who was finally ready to let go and move on, but he doesn't get that closure. The more I think about it, the less I like it.
I think the Bi-Generation was absolutely ingenious. I think it would be a good choice to make it so that the 14th doctor can not regenerate again after the Bi-Generation and only the 15th Doctor carries on the ability to regenerate now. Since the doctors timelord origin backstory is essentially down the drain and he is the Timeless Child, anything is possible though. I wonder if they'll explore the Doctors Timeless Child Origins. It would be interesting to know if the Fob Watch containing the memories of the Doctor from before the memory wipe by Division and Tecteun was duplicated within the Tardis. If not, I hope that the 14th Doctor gets a spin off show and he is the one who has the Fob Watch and eventually opens it. Timelord Victorious??? I really enjoyed the Giggle, it was overall phenomenal Doctor Who.
Interesting point about the fob watch, I imagine it transferred as they’re meant to be identical. But I had forgot that was a thread that could be revisited.
I think the ending to the giggle was a fulfilling ending david Tennant got to be the doctor still but now has more time to spend with his new found family donna shaun wilf sylvia rose and others he gets to be happy and know his companion is safe as he will be around to keep it that way its the best outcome possible without tearing audiences away by say no im not watching next doctor they aren't my doctor which was how i felt after watching all of matt smith then he regenerated in to Peter capaldi and i was very annoyed with that as he played ceaser in fires of pompii when david Tennant played the 10th doctor so i refused to watch that one when i heard david was coming back and saw that Catherine tate would be in it i was like hell yes i will watch that and now after seeing Ncuti Gatwa as 15th doctor alongside david Tennant 14th doctor i am so willing to watch Ncutis doctor and see what lies in store for his form of the doctor P.S sorry for the long comment just wanted to give my opinion as you wanted to know really 😊
Thank you for sharing your thoughts! They do find a way of explaining the 12th Doctor’s face in his series so I would recommend giving his episodes a try
I loved Bigeneration and duplicating The Tardis using 15s "prize". It was brilliant, 10/10.... Happiest I've been as a Doctor Who fan since Heaven Sent.
I genuinely thought Bi-generation worked, obviously it leaves a big plothole in that there is another doctor on earth now, but as someone who studies film, plotholes really aren't all that a lot of these youtube media critics play it up to be. Overall i mostly agree with Joe, but seeing 15 on screen was so delightful that i literally said "yes!" out loud when he pulled out the mallet and made another TARDIS, it shows that he is gonna be playful and empathetic, weird and interesting, like Smith or Baker. So I just hope that others who watch this see it the same way.
Whenever I think of the stuff 15 did in the episode, my worries just fade away. Even the concern of “this undercuts his first appearance” feels silly when you see just how much he dominates the screen
I've really enjoyed watching your thoughts on these episodes Joe, I'd like it if you did the same thing for Ncuti's first season :) I loved this episode, the Toymaker was brilliant and seeing his realm was really cool, the puppets were creepy and terrifying. I liked seeing the references to things that have happened to the Doctor since meeting Donna and how that's played on his mind, like the companion puppets scene. My first thought about bigeneration was that it felt like cheating, but equally I loved seeing Ncuti's doctor interact with David Tennant's doctor, and actually seeing 15 for a good portion of the episode because usually after a regeneration you just see the new Doctor for a few seconds. So being able to see all that means I didn't mind bigeneration, I do think all your concerns are valid but we'll have to see how they handle it in future. I'm encouraged that Russell is very focussed on Ncuti's Doctor being "The Doctor" that the show will follow, and I like what you said about us not having much time to worry about things because the Christmas special is so soon and then we'll get a new series next year. I loved Ncuti as the Doctor and I'm really looking forward to seeing what he does next, the Christmas special looks like it will be great fun!
Thank you for the comment! It seems we agree on a lot of things. I’ve decided to continue these videos into Christmas and Ncuti’s Season 1, I’m enjoying them and it seems the people are too
The bi-generation could work well depending on what they do with it going forward because you can't just have 2 Doctors existing at once and not do anything with it. Depending on how and when it comes back and what they do with it, I think it could be pretty good. I definitely don't think it can be permanent, though. Here's how I would do it: Reveal during the series, through means I haven't figured out, that The Doctor wasn't technically supposed to die on that tower, that the Toymaster, being from outside the universe, kinda f*cked up the timeline, which is why they bi-generated instead, and 15 is technically from 14's future, which is how they could "do rehab in reverse", throughout the series keep dropping hints that the Doctor's true next death is coming soon. Also, make it clear that, while he's doing better than 14, 15 isn't entirely okay. In the finale, 14 comes back to help deal with the major crisis, now doing much better mentally, and keeps barely escaping death the whole time. Then, towards the end, 15 jumps in the way of a mortal wound meant for 14 and, instead of regenerating, is absorbed back into 14, causing 14 to properly regenerate into 15, now with all the memories of both Doctors, and somehow that combined knowledge is what allows him to save the day.
I worry that Davies and Tenant screwed over another incoming doctor. First they vilify Matt Smith's Doctor just for being "born" and then they steal 15's entrance by overshadowing it with the non-regeneration of 14! Ncuti deserved his own entrance and beginning and the shadow of Tenant is cast over his entire run now. Hopefully the Christmas special gives him a proper first impression.
I liked the Flux freak-out scene but worried that'd be the new ‘depressing past experience’ in place of the time war Happy we're getting a burden-free doctor!!!!!
What makes me more ok with bigeneration is how it's a closed loop. Episode very strongly implies 14 eventually jumps back into the timeline at the exact point of bigeneration as 15. So it's not a split, as the word first implied to me.
This is what makes it work for me as well. the episode kind of implies contradictory things on that front, but until this reading is explicit contradicted, it’s how I’ll see it
I’m going to throw it out there. I don’t think I can get behind the bi-generation. I thought it was a fun way to defeat the toymaker but I feel that having David tenant hanging around just completely takes the shine off Ncuti taking over as the doctor. From now on everyone will always be asking for David tenant to come back. Doctor who needs to move on from tenant, while I love him as the doctor the show needs to move forward and not always keep a foot in the past. I was really looking forward to Ncuti taking over, I haven’t been this excited for a new doctor since Peter C and the bi-generation has totally spoiled it for me. I felt to make bi-gen work, the point where the 14th and the 15th Doctors are talking and the 15th is like everything from now will be fine, the 15th could have effectively absolved the 14th’s “sins” (can’t think of a better way to phrase it) and then the 14th and 15th become a whole doctor again then the doctor fully regenerates. That for me would have been a better ending and a more fitting way to draw a line over the last era of Dr Who ready for the Disney era. I feel the bi-gen only gets a pass because it was RTD and tenant. If it was anyone else writing or a different doctor everyone would really not agree
The Giggle- yay or nay? Bi-generation- yay or nay? These videos- yay or nay? Please let me know!
It's a yay from me
I'm happy to hear that!@@thatllputmarzipaninyourpie3117
Bi-generation, yay if 14 becomes the 1st curator
I really enjoyed that theory popping up yesterday@@Djampuu
Yay all round
I can't be the only one who thought Kate was going to smack the Doctor when she first saw him, right?
It really could've gone either way, but a relieved hug is quite a nice way for it to go
It was shot the same way as the slap in the Star Beast
Maybe a very deliberate subversion then
yeah, I thought the same, as well.
Completely thought she was going to deck him with a, "Where the hell have you been?!" line.
I like the idea that the Toymaker is switching up his accent because the 1st Doctor beat him by imitating his voice.
Oh that's a GREAT idea, I'm a big fan of that
The first Toymaker dressed in a Chinese outfit which today would be seen as racism. Russell felt by changing the accents would make him look a bit racist today.
As said by the second comment, Russel said in Unleashed that he deliberately leaned into the Toymaker's racist aspects my making him deliberately put on different stereotypical accents. But I like to think in headcanon that he had that as a second reason too.
@@fayesouthall6604 no it wouldn't unless you're being racist?
@@fayesouthall6604 Wearing clothes of other cultures are not racist by any means
My opinion on the bi-generation really depends on what they do with the two Doctors. I really like the idea of 14 being the Therapy Doctor. It’s a great throughline for the specials.
Fourteen: but you’re fine.
Fifteen: I’m fine because you fix yourself!
…is such a beautiful response to last episodes…
Donna: You okay?
Doctor: I will be
Donna: When?
Doctor: A million years.
Ideally, I’d like for us to never see the fourteenth Doctor again. I just want to know he is out there, being happy, and fixing himself and that’s how we finally get the emotionally stable fifteenth Doctor that we see in this episode. As 15 says “doing rehab out of order”
I do kinda wish RTD could have written this story for Jodie. Her Doctor wanted a family so badly (see “Fam”) and I never truly understood why she couldn’t have it. It just seemed like she was sabotaging herself. This would have been the perfect ending for her… living a simple life with Yaz, growing old together. 😢
Yeah it is a real shame how things ended for 13’s relationships, with no clear reason why?
@@Joe_Brennan_ Jodie’s era just makes me sad and not in a good way. It isn’t a beautiful tragedy like most of 10s run, it’s just sad. Great potential entirely squandered.
We will see the 14th Doctor again, in his own spin-off. 8th Doctor, too!
This story probably would have worked with Jodis doctor with just a little tweaking, so yeah, that would have been interesting.
@@neilcarter77 I don’t think I like that at all… but I will stay open minded
The interpretation of bi-regeneration essentially snatching the dying 14 from the future to be born as 15 in the events of the giggle has made the concept easier for me to accept. In any case, I didn’t really care at that point because I was so impressed with Ncuti being able to establish himself so effortlessly while sharing the stage with David freaking Tennant.
But yeah, I do hope we get a proper ‘mid story’ regeneration one day. The idea of a new doctor having to somehow resolve a story that killed their predecessor is so interesting, and could be a great way of contrasting the two incarnations.
Also, I loved the brief flashes of Hartnell and Gough when the Doctor and the Toymaker first meet. It was a neat visual shorthand to communicate the history. Maybe we could get more of that whenever old baddies show up?
Yeah thinking we were gonna get a mid-story regeneration was a very exciting few seconds. I think with the way final episodes work as a goodbye these days, it kind of feels like it’d never happen. But who knows…
And that's pretty much what the episode tells us too with it being mentioned that 15 is older and 15 saying "I'm fine because you fix yourself"
@@Joe_Brennan_ I could see it working as a two parter. Part one is all about the outgoing Doctor, before they’re killed at the end and regenerate, leading to the next doctor taking up the reigns for part two. Kinda like Stolen Earth/Journey’s End, except without the crowded side cast, so that both Doctors can get a proper spotlight (and also less lame final words like “I’m regenerating!”).
I felt 14 was ready to die and 15 was the one who chose to bi-gen. In stark contrast to The End of Time, he was surrounded by his loved ones. 15 was the one who saved him and that was his first heroic deed before he even fully regenerated. The bigeneration was a impossible thing that became possible because he was still in Toymaker's state of play where reality is not fixed so so-called myths and superstitions can become real, and 15 tricked the Toymaker by making it 2 against one like you brought up and Toymaker couldn't hack it. Tennant also confirmed that in the commentary the bigen happened because of the Toymaker.
That's a good way of looking at the victory, I'm really glad to have these comments and conversations because it helps me settle into my opinions on all of these aspects
@@Joe_Brennan_ Totally! Me too.
Totally agree with this comment. I think this move was perfect, because it implies that the healthier version of the Doctor (15) gives the traumatized side of the Doctor a break after all these years of running. So, we’ll get to see a completely different kind of energy from 15, and if it’s anything like Ncuti showed us in the special, I’m all here for it! This also allows showrunners to bring back Tennant for any fun specials, and I really don’t mind it or feel like it detracts from the story. Overall, everything feels like a big win!
@@Joe_Brennan_ The same can be said for the TARDIS being duplicated. It was the Toy maker's .. energy or what have you.. still being in effect.. making the impossible.. possible.
I'm glad they confirmed it's because of the Toymaker. I was fully ready to believe it was a myth because that was what Timelord regeneration was meant to be based on the timeless child before I read that.
I love that this anniversary was all about moving on. Donna got to move on from being the Doctor Donna and not having to die if she remembers her family gets to move on from that. And the Doctor gets to move on in more ways than one literally. The question if bi generation works or not is if we are going to see Tennant again or not he is a fan favorite and this kinda felt like a break glass in case button they can break out and bring him back and I hope that’s not the case unless it’s meaningful. But I’m okay with 14th Doctor and Donna not coming back after this.
Yeah I think I'd rather not see them, or we see 14 for the sake of merging with the normal Doctor. But yeah, definitely not "the continued adventures of Donna and the Doctor" in 2033
I'd like to see a U.N.I.T spin off with tenants doctor leading U.N.I.T with lots of old companions. Tenant should not be the protagonist tho.
@@MammothMoralsI think the Doctor will guest star in the U.N.I.T. spinoff maybe only for finales but wouldn't be surprised if they choose a different Doctor each appearance. They've set up that U.N.I.T. doesn't tell the doctor about future incarnations which means Paul McGann, Matt Smith, Christopher Eccleston, Peter Capaldi and Jodie Whittaker can all come back for an adventure with U.N.I.T.
Also doesn't take away from whoever is the main Doctor at the time to have old ones show up in a spinoff.
@@Logicalleaping Now that sounds fun!
In defence of the retired 14th Doctor having his own TARDIS… It seems the Tardis is taking him where he wants to go, not where he is needed. In the sense that the First Doctor was the embodiment of a magic children’s literature, Edwardian grandfather, this feels like a deliberate full circle return to that. He is retired and now gets to be a grandfather again having exploratory (but not dangerous) adventures.
That’s a lovely way to put it, she’ll keep him out of trouble for the sake of his retirement. I do wonder what’ll happen next time an apocalypse comes to Earth though
@@Joe_Brennan_well, since 14 and 15 exist at the same time “time”, or meta-time, or at the same part of the Doctor’s timeline, in some sort of loop, any crisis 14 is aware of, 15 can address, whereas previous/later Doctors won’t be aware of it happening, because at their point in the timeline it hasn’t.
@@yerald_a why wouldn't he help solve a threat to earth?
14 can stay and protect Earth while 15 goes on adventures everywhere else.
Yeah, it reminded me of the Peter Cushing movies where Dr. Who is just a guy who takes his family on time travel adventures sometimes and then they come back home.
It's interesting that you bring up the Companion Support Group. Because, IIRC, Mel was in that group. I could totally see her rocking up one day and being like "Hey everyone, I brought a guest!"
That would be so funny. Or Mel just stopping showing up and telling the others “ah I got over it”
The changing in the Toy Makers accent through the episode is actually a really cool canon nodd, the doctor won the original game by imitating The Toy makers voice, this time round he throws out several voices to specifically avoid being defeated the same way 👍
When I saw someone point that out I thought it was a BRILLIANT point, very good stuff
In fairness that's something the fans have picked up on, which IS clever, but that RTD did not intend - he actually states the reason for the OTT accents is to continue the idea that the Toymaker is racist without the original clothing and title of Celestial from the original. Poor NPH actually had to learn the words written in the script as they are spoken, heavy stereotyped accent and all - props to him for doing so well.
Everyone: you need a rest.
The Doctor after taking 24 years to hang out with River Song: ......
Oh they weren’t resting
@@Joe_Brennan_😂
I hadn't heard the leaks, and I thought this plot twist, and what it enabled in terms of the doctors interacting, was brilliant. When 15 comforted 14, I totally bought that the two of them were the same entity. I think it set Ncuti up beautifully for his run.
It wouldn’t have worked nearly as well if Ncuti wasn’t so able to dominate the screen. What a presence!
@@Joe_Brennan_ now, THIS is a really interesting point!
I absolutely love David Tennant as The Doctor. I think it’s fair to say that he has always been MY Doctor, but, from the moment he shows up, Ncuti Gatwa’s Doctor is absolutely owning every scene and running rings around Tennant (or at the very least keeping up with him, if you’re feeling particularly stingy about things). Going on screen to take over an iconic role from an actor who a huge section of the fanbase consider to be the GOAT is already a challenge, but to do that whilst the other actor is STILL on screen with you and being so effortlessly charming and charismatic in the part is frankly f**king remarkable!
What resonated with me the most about The Doctor is their drive to help people across the stars while having the desire to settle down with a family. That duality no longer exists and I feel a certain gravitas has been lifted from the character. This episode has fundementally broken my perception of The Doctor and the progam itself.
What I hope is that Ncuti's Doctor will begin his era unburdened by the events of the past, but will then regain his sense of weariness as more stuff happens. It's a chance for the character to develop in front of us, and I think that could be a good thing. But yeah, it's a massive departure.
*mavitas.
Even then, that desire was gone ages ago. He's an old man, he had his family, and they've grown up.
@@Joe_Brennan_ Hmm, perhaps... I think spiltting The Doctor's duality across two works better from a metatextual perspective than an in-narrative perceptive. Around this time with the Classic run, Who had become rather lore heavy and I think that weight was making the show inprenatrable to new viewers. So, while I do think RTD could've retained that duality in one incarnation, there's a certain logic of "unburdening the Doctor's past" as to not make viewers feel they have to do homework to feel the full weight of the character.
@@epiccarrot88 I'm not sure one's desire for community ever quite goes away but thank you for sharing your perspective. Would you care to further elaborate on your perspective?
I love the bi-generation! The only end that The Doctor gets is rebirth, over and over. The only resolution! This was a story that needed healing, needed family, needed calm and that can't be resolved by regeneration. The scene where 15 embraces 14 is literally the embracing of your inner child made real and I cried ALOT.
The ending was very sweet and made my heart grow three sizes that day
Well that sounds like a success!
As someone who only came back to Who to see the David Tennant specials, I really enjoyed the episodes, and the new start for 15, and watching him in action has made me feel enthusiastic to keep watching. Which considering a few years ago I'd pretty much given up on Doctor Who, is remarkable.
This is such great news! It really justifies giving Ncuti a substantial role in The Giggle, and I hope loads of people have the same experience as you. I hope you enjoy the Christmas special!
Same!
I think the Bigeneration stuff would have been perfect if they didn't duplicate the TARDIS. I think instead 14 should have just stayed with the Noble family on Earth with no caveats, and 15 goes off with the TARDIS.
Yeah that's one of the things that makes me the most uneasy, although the idea of little trips with Rose and Wilf (maybe even Sylvia) does warm my heart
@@Joe_Brennan_ I didn't like it at first, but I think it would have been too cruel to take the TARDIS away after it and the Doctor had been together for so many years and it was his home the entire time.
I see it as the Doctor now has a home that Gallifrey never was after he left. He has people to return to. So even though he does take jaunts with the TARDIS, he's no longer constantly running.
Yeah that is a nice distinction to make actually, I like that
Since I subscribe to the “snatched from the future” interpretation of Bi-generation, I’m also choosing to consider 15’s TARDIS as from the future as well (which would explain the additions like the ramp and jukebox). One day, when 14 eventually dies, both him and the TARDIS will poof out of existence and end up shunted back in time to the finale of the Giggle. It definitely makes it easier to swallow for me.
@@EditedAF987 I think this is the take I like most. It's what the episode implies too - 15 is the Doctor after stopping and relaxing, so the implication is 14 will eventually die after his rest, and turn up as 15 at the UNIT helipad.
I found the idea of the doctor finally allowing himself to stop and deal with his trauma and loss incredibly emotionally resonating for me, especially as someone who is struggling with mental health myself. That the doctor can show weakness and accept he needs a break was beautiful, i also loved the genuine affection and care between the two doctors. Bigeneration was more than worth it for the character moments it allowed, even if it might mess up a wiki.
Yeah I think you’re absolutely right
I really appreciate your positivity and optimism. Even if you don't particularly like something you don't just dismiss it or hate on it, you give it the benefit of the doubt and try to see the good in it, and you don't let it ruin your experience as a whole. Very refreshing indeed. Keep up the good work.
That’s a very nice thing to say, I think I just really like liking things. It’s a much better way to be than the opposite.
Been really enjoying these videos! Nice to have you and your viewers here to reflect upon the episodes and share perspectives with without having to venture in the murky waters that exist in some parts of the fandom. Would be happy for more if you want to make them, if not, thanks for these ones. ☺️
This is a very lovely comment, I appreciate it. I think I’ll keep the videos up for when the series starts!
I liked The Giggle, felt very Moffat, the 'everybody lives' but applied to the Doctor. I think its great we're seeing more of Mel, giving a less popular companion more attention, I'm interested to see how she will factor in Series 14. While I think the ball game could have been more interesting I think it will be really popular with kids. The final shot of the episode being Ncuti really hammers the point of him being the future.
I literally just finished the episode and was looking for this video. Great timing mate.
Really happy to be your first thought, I hope the video doesn't disappoint
@@Joe_Brennan_ It certainly didn't. Glad you're uploading regularly again, I've really been enjoying your recent output.
I’m glad I am too! It’s been a real joy to return. Thank you for the support.
I’m really curious to see the entirety of the 15th Doctors season because it seems to me that a lot of the plot lines in these specials will carry over into the 15th doctors run. I think we will be given a lot of context for what has happened so far that will put everything into a different perspective. The first and third special were obviously hinting at a larger villain and I think they will tie up the 14th Doctors story at some point. It seems like the 15 doctor has come back from a future point to get his past self on the right track which means the timeline will probably sort its self out and there will be one doctor again. RTD has proven in the past that he can write effective intricate plots and bring elements from his writing together to make a satisfying, overarching story. I really want to see what this run looks like once it’s completed.
Honestly I really like the idea that a future version of the Doctor has come back to give their past self the time and space they need to recover from all their trauma and self destructive habits. I also like how kind and hopeful the ending was. It felt needed. Our world has been so dark and depressing in the last few years so giving these characters, who have been suffering and losing everything after only ever trying to do good and help people, a genuinely happy ending felt comforting and well deserved. Plus it gives the new doctor a clean slate to just be a nomadic, idealistic madman with a box again instead of just a broken, war weary, god. I don’t think they will just ignore the doctors past, but will no longer allow them to wallow in it and punish themselves for things that were beyond their control.
Yeah you're right about how a happy and hopeful ending is a refreshing thing, I've seen people treating its positivity as a point against it, but I really don't think that's true. An ending can be satisfying even if no one dies.
I hope there will be a full episode with Newton
The way I read it is that when 14 dies he resumes from the point where they split but from 15’s perspective.
The only reason I read it this way is because 15 says he’s better because 14 took the time to heal which means that it’s still one time stream.
If this is actively disproven then I don’t think I’ll like it but for now I think that’s how I’m gonna read it in which case I like it.
Yeah I only saw that line pointed out on Twitter AFTER I filmed the video but I really like seeing it that way. The way Ncuti is healed not by dumping all the burden onto Tennant, but by working through it AS Tennant. It’s all wibbly wobbly timey wimey enough that we can kind of let it mean whatever we want.
The optics of the first two black Doctor’s only co-existing with their white counterparts is shaky to say the least. However in the episode itself it works as a piece of television and Ncuti is so charismatic and lovely I’m not really thinking too hard tbh.
Yeah that was on my mind as well, although hopefully in the show it won't feel like co-existence any more than the fact that every Doctor is always out in the timeline somewhere. Christmas will come along and it'll be Ncuti's show, which is something Jo Martin deserved.
I loved the giggle and I find it funny that RTD took a jab at modern society with the self opinionated and the bit where everyone thinks they’re right all the time.
He is a clever man when it comes to satire
Thoroughly enjoyed all three specials, thanks to David and Catherine’s chemistry and RTD’s writing. Haven’t felt this invested in the show since Christopher Eccleston. As for Ncuti, he absolutely nailed the character of the Doctor in his first few seconds on screen. I didn’t hate the bi-regeneration, still processing it. Enjoying your spontaneous videos and would be great to see them when Ncuti’s series starts.
Thank you so much for the comment, I’m glad you’ve enjoyed the show so much and I think I will keep the videos up when the series rolls along
Tennant is now in the same place as Matt Smith where they can bring them back without ever worrying about age. Any multi-doc special can pick up Tennant from Earth and Smith from Trenzalore and they'd both be age appropriate. Not sure how I feel about bi-regeneration overall and how much of it gets a pass because it's RTD and Tennant (imagine the exact same thing was done by Chibnall and Whittaker).
Yeah great writing and characterisation definitely does earn you a bit more leeway with this stuff
At first, I thought seeing one TARDIS being "spawned" from another was a bit weird. However, I then recalled we've already seen the TARDIS bi-generating (tri-generating, actually) as the guest Doctors go their separate ways at the end of The Five Doctors... albeit without the aid of a "magic mallet".
Yeah I think seeing the TARDIS as the same thing at different points in time, rather than literally split in two, makes it work a lot better as a beat
It wasn't a magical mallet; the Tardis could split because we've always seen the doctor's regeneration affect the Tardis and make it go through its own "regeneration". Also toymakers residual magic I think 15 said.
@@saniwada Cloning a TARDIS by whacking it with a wooden mallet is ridiculous - it's a time-machine, after all, not a fairground "test your strength" machine. Whilst it didn't ruin my enjoyment of the story, I've got very little time or patience with magic of any description in Doctor Who.
@@ftumschk in a Bi-generation story the Tardis cloning itself is the least weird part, the doctor split himself in 2 like an amoeba. and like i said before it has already established long before this episode that the Tardis and the doctors regenerations are connected. Its allways been a magic machine.
Still don’t get why Wilf was immune from the giggle but Kate wasn’t, he only traveled in the TARDIS twice but so did Kate (and her trips likely lasted longer)
Oh that’s a bit of an oversight I suppose, not episode-ruining but you’re right
Also, were Sylvia, Shawn, and Rose immune? They never said.
Wilf was always outside looking at the stars or like in this episode out shooting at the moles and stuff, maybe because he wasn't always in front of a screen? They didn't really say cos Donna reacted to Mel singing the tune like everyone else in the room but wasn't affected cos of the TARDIS travel which I'd imagine only takes one time so with Kate idk. Maybe running UNIT made her more susceptible. She does comment on how her brain activity was high due to the circumstances or something like that whereas Wilf was fairly carefree by comparison. Idk.
Who said he wasn't? Purely my head canon, but: when we see him at the end of Wild Blue Yonder he says he "I knew it" "I told them to bunker down". He sat there and waited, thinking...knowing he was right. As for why he wasn't angry or aggressive, in my head it's because he is such a pure and kind character. 14 says "this was already in you all", referring to the anger, but Wilf has never shown himself to a person driven by those things. You could also argue that his few trips in the TARDIS means that it just didn't effect him as much.
@@samdunstan563 Donna asks why she and wilf aren’t infected. And from what we saw it doesn’t matter how good you are it will
Affect you the same- and Kate travelled just as much as Wilf did (arguably longer)
If I had a nickel for every time Tennant has started to regenerate, only to then split into two versions of The Doctor and one of them goes on to live a regular life with his companion...
I didn't know about the Bi-generation going in so it was a genuine wtf moment for me. After it happened, I got a similar feeling to when I've had issues with the Meta-crisis. But I have less problems with this and I think it's a neat way of keeping things fresh and surprising.
Like how The Doctor Falls could've been an ending for the show, this seems to be Russell's attempt at an ending. I feel the impact of David's Doctor staying with Donna could be slightly undercut by the fact that Ncuti's Doctor is still running around. The Doctor gets a happy ending, except they also don't. But unlike when Ten left the Meta-crisis Doctor to live his life, Fifteen seems much happier. The Bi-generation has left him unburdened and free to start anew.
As for the episode itself, it was really good. NPH as always looked like he was having a blast and I love seeing him do his thing. Hope he comes back. I think this special perfectly sets him up as a recurring villain.
I’m just so glad Doctor Who is being bold and interesting again. Every week, the past three weeks, there’s been something new to talk about. I haven’t had that pleasure in ages. It’s actually trying out stuff, being inventive, taking risks and exploring their implications. I’m just happy I care so much again.
The Doctor is supposed to be the same character that's why the idea of 14 stopping for some time to feel better to eventually become 15 works, but it doesn't in this story because even if the dialogue implies that 15 is in 14's future (which is something RTD never explicitly says) most people got the idea that they are two independent beings. I feel like this will probably mean that each Doctor will not be treated as a singular character anymore and I'm not sure I like that.
I know RTD's work well so I 100% see the bigeneration as a metaphor for queer trauma. For all of new who the doctor has dealt with the trauma of loss and the time war. Now he gets a chance to process it through friends and chosen family. Much like RTD has done in the decades following the AIDS crisis
That's a really beautiful interpretation. I love that a lot. I saw someone else liken it to how many of us are just running of fumes after the emotionally and physically draining pandemic that left us no time to reflect on anything. I'm so Who-brained that I forgot to even look for an allegory there and just nodded like "yes Dr Who is quite tired..."
The Time War is not a metaphor for the AIDS crisis. The LGBT community does not own the concept of trauma or rehabilitation.
The LGBT+ community finds a way to turn everything into a metaphor or allegory. This is complete jargonite gobbledygook.
@@Joe_Brennan_ It's also really great to have a new doctor straight out of the gate confident and joyful. I've grown so sick of a doctors first episode have him fumbling about or in bed for the whole episode. I think it's no coincidence that in ncuti's first episode he sees millie across the dance floor of a club. Much like how RTD first met his future husband in a club in 1998. (though I hope their relationship isnt romantic)
Yeah it's such an exciting way to start, I can't wait and thankfully we really don't have to!
Secondly, this now means David Tennant can return for the 75th anniversary specials. In all seriousness, though, at some point, this will have to be reconciled. Gatwa's Doctor implied that he has the benefits of the long mental health break that Tennant's Fourteenth Doctor will take. Perhaps a hypothetical 75th anniversary story will be like Logopolis, where The Watcher joins with the Fourth Doctor, which triggers the regeneration. Then the BBC just needs to push David Tennant's wheelchair on-screen for the 100th anniversary specials.
Really nice analysis, and I really appreciate your back-and-forth on the bi-generation. I can totally understand people feeling like Ncuti has been done a disservice by having his predecessor still knocking about (especially given that it's fan favourite David Tennant), and with him being the first black actor to play a mainline Doctor, the optics maybe aren't that great..
However, I actually think that in his time onscreen, Ncuti is actually the one that overshadows Tennant - like you say, he just has it. He is instantly the Doctor, arriving fully-formed and just feels like a real burst of energy that is going to propel the show forward. I adore the dynamic between him and Tennant, getting to see them bounce off of one another and share in the pure joy and confusion of what has just happened. In his first scene, Gatwa honestly feels much more like the dominant presence of the two to me - he is the one that tells 14 'Hey, it's okay, you did good.' and they share some really lovely moments where he helps him through. It's testament to Gatwa's talent and screen presence that you immediately fall in love with him and buy him as this character, and also to Tennant for absolutely letting Ncuti have those scenes, knowing that they should rightly belong to him.
The main reason I can get on board with this bi-generation (other than it being a fresh spin on something that we've seen play out dozens of times before), is that, for all its sci-fi technobabble, it is an idea firmly rooted in narrative, character and theme. The previous two specials both played with the themes of identity and duality, and this works as some nice thematic foreshadowing for what we get here. I like the very meta aspect of an anniversary being a time to look back but also to look forward, and here we get a very literal example of that. I know some feel that this whole thing makes Ncuti not a 'proper' Doctor and more of a clone etc., but I don't think either of them are meant to be perceived as more or lesser than the other, because they are both just the Doctor - two things can be true at once.
It would have been nice over the course of these specials to have had a bit more of a sense of 14 as this weary traveller that's been running himself thin, in order to give this character arc a bit more of a satisfying pay-off. But I really like the idea that 15 emerges from this without any of these burdens, after helping his former self to work through all of that. Self-help in the most literal sense - timey-wimey therapy.
It also would have been nice to get a bit more of an in-universe explanation for why this has happened (although of course that may come later). Similarly, I'm not sure I buy the resolution to the mystery of 14's face coming back being so he can settle down with Donna's family - feels a little too over-emotional and doesn't hit like it could have...
I'm interested to see where things go from here and I imagine this isn't the last that we'll see of 14 - whether that's his own spin-off, popping up in a UNIT spin-off, or (less likely) in the main show itself. But I like that for now we've kind of wrapped up things with 14, and even though we haven't said goodbye to him permanently as we may be used to, the focus is most definitely on 15's adventures - so even if you're not on board with this, I don't think it's going to be all that important to Ncuti's stories going forward. We've got this clean break, it's the Doctor, in the TARDIS, having adventures. Christmas can't come soon enough!
Thank you so much for this comment, it’s really great and thoughtful. I think you’re right in everything you say, and the more I think of bi-generation through the lens that it is just as much in service of Ncuti as it is of David (if not more), the more it all starts to feel right
Love these videos Joe, I think the format was a big success as long as you have the energy to talk about it. Positive vibes and good conversation even for stuff that you don’t 100% love is good fun.
I’m really happy to have this kind of feedback from a long term member of the jboi army. Means I’ve not abandoned my true fans by shifting the format a little.
I loved the episode. Looking so forward to Ncuti’s run
So am I! We really don’t have to wait long.
I think the fact he has his own TARDIS and is staying with Donna (especially given the discussion at the dinner table) is actually a sign that this Doctor doesn't want to adventure more. This is how a show gets rid of a character without killing them or having regenerate. It works as well because we have only known David's Doctor as particularly traumatized and so people can go back and watch 10 and while it will be different it will be familiar. Doctor Who has for a long time struggled with getting rid of characters in non violent/sad ways and this is a tool that allows that for the Doctor and now that idea of a soft exit can be more explored in other characters.
Quote from RTD about 14
The ending is very simple, actually. It’s not much of a tease. It means David is parked. David [Tennant] is living in France. We’ve got a happy Doctor who is no longer saving the universe, but that’s parked with Donna for a happy life. While THE Doctor, which is always the next Doctor, and that’s always true of Doctor Who, the Doctor is the next Doctor, is out amongst the stars. He’s flying off. He’s going to have a companion. It’s going to be there on Christmas Day. It’s going to be very exciting. I’m going to say goblins and enormous fun to come.
I keep changing my mind about whether we’re likely to see 14 again, and also changing my mind about whether I’d like that
@@Joe_Brennan_I think personally I would love if we got like a future regeneration of 14 just running a shop or something randomly in an episode, proof he's fully retired from adventuring and even after the Nobles he stayed settled... I think Tenant has had his time, but this version of the doctor exists now and deserves to be recognized occasionally
This sincerely might just be one of my favourite episodes of the show, period. I’ll have to give it some time before entirely committing to that, but I can at least say that Neil Patrick Harris’s Celestial Toymaker most certainly is a new favourite. He captures everything you want in a Who villain; campy, menacing and ultimately just an absolute riot to watch! That dance sequence was just magnificently silly!
And as for the story itself, I gotta say that twist at the end (I’ll try and stay spoiler-light, but maybe wait to read this next bit if you haven’t seen it), is actually something that really worked for me; despite the controversy in the fandom it’ll no doubt cause. It’s an anniversary, after all, so wrapping everything up in a nice little bow is honestly just a perfect send-off to me; I mean, as the characters literally pointed out, David Tennant’s Doctor has earned his swan-song!
And Ncuti Gatwa… I already know I’m going to love his Doctor. We’ve never really had a Doctor (minus Christopher Eccleston’s 9 I suppose, due to his off-screen regeneration) introduced with such a definitive sense of who they are. And man do I like it. Comforting, vibrant and ultimately radiating fun: yeah, this guy’s gonna be good!
So yeah, safe to say I loved it. As a whole, the 60th anniversary itself was not what I expected but, despite going into this episode with uncertainty on whether it could stick the landing, it gives me an innumerable amount of joy when I say that this gave me everything I wanted and more. Doctor Who is never going to be objectively perfect, but this is pretty damn perfect to me.
Now, let’s bring on Christmas!!!!
I personally really enjoyed this special and i really like ncuti as the new doctor and i am hyped for what Russell does going forward with the show.
It’s so lovely to be excited isn’t it. And even lovelier that we hardly have to wait at all!
@@Joe_Brennan_ 100% can’t wait for the new series that will pretty much start in two weeks starting with the Christmas special.
Thank you for de video! I personally really loved the episode. The scene where ncuti's doctor hugs david's doctor and comforts him made me so emotional. And it is very nice to have a character that went through sooo much get the chance to settle down, enjoy retirement with a lovely family :))) while we also get the new doctor starting anew, freed of all the trauma of what happened in the past 20 or so years of doctor who.
Thank you for watching! I'm so glad you enjoyed the episode this much
NPH styling over UNIT for 3 minutes was hilarious, terrifying and magnificent. This was a brilliant trilogy ending with 14 taking a gap-life off and the resulting healed 15 erupting into space reborn. I cant wait for the xmas special!
Using the anniversary specials to reboot the show was a great idea. I thought the three episodes were a triumph and really enjoyable. The only problem is that the Earth is being destroyed all the time and the 14th Doctor will be on Earth with his two companions who work for UNIT. Realistically, he wouldn't sit around and watch, would he? Also, why didn't the ray gun kill him? He got shot by the most powerful gun on the planet and then won a game of catch.
The gun did kill him! That’s where Ncuti came from. But yeah I worry whether he’ll be able to sit out the next apocalypse on Earth.
@@Joe_Brennan_ I get it now. Both are a regeneration. Both are Doctor 15.
I feel the bi-generation works in the story, it allows 15 to move on without being chained to the past. Allows that trauma to be healed etc
BUT I worry outside of the show, this puts a bit sword hanging over Ncuti, if The Mouse is not happy with how he is going it's so easy for them to just bring Tennant back in whenever and totally undercutting him. Imagine the stinger to save the day in his finale being Tennant rocking up and taking the spotlight
And definitely more fodder for all the Tennant fans to double-down on him being the 'real' Doctor over Ncuti. 🙁
@Voxeril This was literally my takeaway too. That these 3 specials were kinda intended to leave Gutwa's Doctor Who as essentially a reboot, standing entirely aside from the character arcs etc that have built up since 2005, as well as being a nice standalone season for Disney to start with - but with that looming reality that if they really want to backtrack then Tennant is still there to do so.
It was both quite bold, and disarmingly 'safe', and I don't quite know how to feel about that.
That's true, a little bit of a scary thought. Hopefully Ncuti is already well into production of his second season so there's clearly some confidence there, our opinions be damned
So 14 has all the trauma to heal and 15 can just go on care free? How does that work when they are both the DR, both with the memories of the past, how can 15 be like i don't want any of this trauma, you keep it 14 so i can start fresh.
It felt a bit anti climactic toward Ncuti. He IS NOT THE DOCTOR, he is another doctor.
Around 17 minutes in you voiced my major concern, I’m wondering if the bi-generation aspect will diminish the strength of Ncuti’s doctor. Dare I say, I can imagine the new series bringing back David’s doctor to support Ncuti in some way… reducing him in the way that the extended ‘fam’ supporting Jodie’s doctor made her somehow less. Hope that makes sense? But hope more that I’m totally wrong about this!
This is something that on paper I’d be really worried about and in some ways I still have the concerns, but Russell has said that Tennant won’t be at all in the new Season. And honestly, rewatching the episode, Ncuti seems in no danger of being overshadowed when sharing the stage with that Doctor. He can hold his own so impressively well.
I agree with you but leaning on slightly more positive on bi-generation. I think it's a good, mental health positive end to the arc exploring 14's trauma that really built up over the specials, whilst also setting up for the future. Also: audio drama/comic potential with 14 and those he lives with. I want a 14 and Rose Noble adventure! My only real concern is people not fully accepting 15 as the current doctor but we already have previous doctor spinoff content coming out, so as long as the next series focusses on him.. very exciting!
I’d love comic or novel stuff with the comfy 14 adventures, although I wouldn’t want them to get up to much typical Doctor Who conflict. The reason to do it on a page is so Wilf can be involved.
@@Joe_Brennan_ Absolutely! Some low stakes adventures like that would be wonderful
Loved seeing your thought process playout in seemingly real-time re. the Bi-Regen! Loved this episode and feel your concerns with the ending, but overall feeling very positive about it
Yeah it was fun doing a video on something that my opinion was shifting on so organically as I spoke about it. I’m definitely leaning more towards positivity now though. Excited to rewatch!
THEY JUST SPLIT THE TARDIS AND THE DOCTOR IN TWO!!
I really don't know what to think!
Glad it's not just me! I struggled to enjoy Ncuti's Bugs Bunny antics with the big mallet because I was going "oh don't give him a TARDIS......" once I adjust I may end up loving it
@@Joe_Brennan_Not to mention that everyone seems to downplay how any TARDIS is a living creature. The TARDIS herself has got a history and dreams of her own, as so beautifully portrayed in The Doctor's Wife. Now there are two, and we don't even know the implications because the TARDIS is the most underdeveloped character that almost always serves to be the McGuffin that gets the plot where it needs to go, literally. And we're never going to know because the most loyal companion of them all, the one who literally chose her pilot like a dragon their rider, does not get any room to breathe.
Oh and apparently coffee can bring a highly sophisticated machinery out of whack, while today's phones are near waterproof. Et cetera. I seem to always be the only one to complain about this.
I guess the coffee being spilled was mostly only a problem because the TARDIS was new and had its guards down. I have heard people say that this isn't another TARDIS, but the same TARDIS at different points in time. I guess that does explain the jukebox differences, but it definitely is complicated
@@Joe_Brennan_Actually, while I'm moping about the treatment of any TARDIS, what about the one that got sent to die in the void with a belly full of Daleks? You went to Gallifrey, basically rescued another TARDIS from the annihilation of Gallifrey, and then just sent her off to die, even after being all tender with the one she left somewhere disguised as a tree. You can't have both ways.
It's to shoe horn in possible Tennant returns, I didn't mind it, but it literally only exists to keep Tennant around so RTD can bring him back any time he wnats
I really enjoyed it. Your videos are probably the furthest into DW fandom as I get, so i didn't know about the Bi-generation until it happened but I really like the idea. I like that we can know the Doctor took this time with a family to heal without flashing forward to a time that he's healed but his time with the Noble's has to end with Donna dying of old age or something and 14 being retraumatized in that way before becoming 15. We an enjoy the idea of 14 living an idyllic life where he can can heals so he can continue having adventures later in life as 15. I think Ncuti's line of saying he's okay because 14 did that healing for him kinda makes that work for me and makes me see them as one continuous character rather than a 10 and 10-2 situation. I wish 14 wasn't left with a TARDIS but it doesn't ruin anything for me. I hope we don't see 14 in any future onscreen stories. The most I'd be happy with is 15 asking Mel if he's doing okay when we see her in future stories.
Just a thought I was having as you were talking about the "Not my Doctor" viewers reactions. I feel like Russell might've scared most of them off with any "woke" writing was in the first 2 specials anyway and they probably don't care too much for 14 but could be wrong. But I also feel writing a story to dampen the worst reactions of some of the angrier fans is one of the reasons we ended up with TROS in the first place so I'm glad Russell didn't feel like he wanted to cater to that group.
"The bi-regeneration is less of a magical split and more of a timey wimey fuckery where Fifteen arrives early having already benefitted from the soul searching and healing that Fourteen hasn't done yet, and Fourteen will always be destined to eventually 'become' him"
that was a quote i saw on twitter that made me come around on the whole thing. it makes the line "were timelords. were doing rehab out of order" make a lot more sense.
although if this is how its supposed to be then they didnt do a very good job explaining it
That would be fine but thats not the explanation that RTD gives in commentary, hes suggested that all the doctors have bi generated and now they all exist independently
@charg1nmalaz0r51 in the commentary Russell said it was his theory. It's not baked into the text of the script, so fans can still choose whether they want to accept that line of reasoning or not.
Yeah this isn’t how I initially read it ( as is clear in the video) but until it’s contradicted I’m happy to see it that way
8:32 how to beat the toy maker
Step 1 make a steam account and purchase tabs
Step 2 unlock the dark peasant
Step 3 make a custom level with a 30 unit limit, unlimited money, the only unit allowed is peasants, and to win you must defeat the dark peasant who’s in the middle of the map
Step 4 restrict him from accessing settings and give him 1 try only
Step 5 unplug your keyboard and mouse when he starts the game
You win I think
I don’t know what you’re talking about but it sounds like it would work
@@Joe_Brennan_ yes, he can’t even win, or try again because you pulled out the plug, someone please tell me how anyone loses to this guy when they have the technology to make an impossible game, level in a game official editor, modded level, unfair rules in a card game that make him lose twice as much as you when you make a bad move, or anything rigged for him to fail at, watch let me try.
Here’s a game it’s called you can’t be near me.
You failed because the game started when I started talking and you were on the same planner as me.
My opinion on bigeneration is story wise that 15 didn't WANT to live with the trauma anymore, so he left it behind with 14. I do hope something is do e with 14 or else it seems like a cop out of sorts.
Yeah I hope we have a while enjoying Ncuti as the main and only Doctor, but I would some day like a bit of closure on this. I’m happy with implied closure for now though.
Ncuti Gatwa is THE Doctor. The bigeneration allows the doctor to forgive himself and heal, while moving on with a lot less baggage. The sheer JOY of 15 is phenomenal.
Everything he does just makes me so excited
I like the idea that 14 is the part of the doctor that holds onto the past, so casting him out frees 15 onwards. I also like the idea that 14 would be the one to go see all the left behind companions and just be friends, go on the occasional trip and let them enjoy their lives as well
I really do like the idea of a nice social Doctor who checks in on his pals
This was like watching a former Scientologist talk themselves back into Scientology.
Am i the only one who remembers that there is a actualy a third doctor (david tennant) that lives wirh rose in a alternative Dimension
Yeah maybe we’ve had a few too many of him, but he is very good
You can never have enough of David tennant He ist my Favorit doctor 😂
The doctor is always existing in multiple places through time. We had a whole special where all the doctors appeared at the same time. They are all time travelers and therefore are always existing throughout time together. No difference with David Tennant living on earth compared to doctors traveling around time.
An interesting point from the commentary is that Phil points out Davies was going to do bigeneration before… which if you consider Journey’s End was supposed to be Davies last story, means that Rose was supposed to have a proper Doctor in her universe.
That’s very interesting, I wonder if people would prefer that because it keeps the Doctor in a separate universe
I can see the retired Doctor and 15 working in tandem at times and that opens a lot of great episodes coming
I loved the bigeneration. I get people's concerns about how it might affect the show and the fans wanting Tennant back yet again, but the emotional experience of watching the episode outweighs all of that for me. It was the same with 10's comments about him dying and another man walking away. 10 had so much potential for joy but his actual life ended up being mostly tragedy, and after only 3 in-universe years of being him, he finds out he doesn't get to be that version of himself anymore and live up to that potential. That was some juicy emotional storytelling for me, so him coming back as 14 and being allowed to live on, get some therapy and be happy for a while was great.
That said, if 14 goes on to ignore his trauma and become the Valeyard or some shit, I'm going to throw hands
Oh yeah the worst thing they could do now is undercut his closure with some big lore shite like that. I do like the idea that he eventually becomes the Curator, but I'd prefer it if he just merged back eventually
I really don't understand this framework, and I've seen it before, why does it matter if he has the same face? the doctor is the character not the actor, the change of face was just a method of streamlining a recast, I understand the attachment to a specific actor or portrayal of the character, but its been made clear in universe multible times even by tennant in this very episode, that regeneration is not death, 10s life didn't end he just became 11, just like I used to be a teenager and I became an adult, if there was still a teenage version of me running around that would be weird, and thats basically whats happened a bunch of past versions of the doctor are now frozen in their character, they are denied the development we've gotten, and that feels both like it takes away from the many sacrifices of the doctor but also from him being a continous person, and its the second time russel has done this just to give tennant's variant of the doctor a happy ending. I also liked these episodes, and the interactions between Ncuti and David, I liked the character beats, and even the concept of him being pulled out of time or tennant taking a break before becoming Ncuti are all great, but this retroactive restoration of the past versions of the doctor as seperate people just takes away so much from the potential stakes of future episodes and the hardships of the past ones. I'm sure something good can be done with it, but as it stands the explanation we've gotten really doesn't sit well with me.
@@Photons_Dont_Matter_Much The change of face isn't just a recast though, it's a reshuffling of the character and their traits, usually reflecting something about who they are at the time. 10 is very romantic to reflect his relationship with Rose at the time of his taking that face. 11 is very young and whacky to reflect that he's in denial about who he is and the trauma he's been through. 12 is older and more abrasive to reflect that he's sick of running from who he is and now wants to find out what kind of person he is underneath all the masks. 12 even resisted regenerating into 13 at first because he was so tired of having to keep being a new person and going through that process of self-discovery. When they regenerate, the (usually) fully-rounded person they were gets buried under a layer of dissociation and a new version of them becomes dominant. The Doctor isn't a continuous person, their personality gets disintegrated and reformed every time they go through the traumatic experience of dying. It's very Dissociative Identity Disorder-ish.
It matters that the Doctor had a previous face (not necessarily Tennant's) for all this because it gets across that the dissociated trauma has returned to the surface so it can finally be released. And since we know the Curator exists and has 4's face, the implication is that 14 will continue to regenerate into old faces and do the same with all of their trauma too.
You don't have to like it but it made perfect sense to me and I was really moved by the theme of healing from buried trauma.
@@mirawest8510 regeneration is and has been a metaphor for character development, each doctor is shaped by the events of their lives, and it plays out in who they become when they regenerate, as you said, this is my trouble with the plotline, it undoes this, it undoes all the character development it undoes all the sacrifices the doctor made, becuase now 9 doesn't flies off with rose, 10 doing face his death, 11 and clara keep traveling, 12 has puddle bill, and 13 can go date yaz, every sorrow, loss, defeat, and sacrifice has now undone, how does that help the characters? how does this make sense? its not anything that happened with Ncuti, David, or the episode itself, its with the implications, of undoing so many events just to keep david around? when there could have been time shananigains, heck its even implied that there was, but no. its not that I just don't like it, I don't like lots of things, its not that its new or different, or that it doesn't work for the current situation, (as you said it works well for david and Ncutis story), its not that there are allternate versions of the doctor, its that everything that was done could have been without the retroactive undevelopment.
@@Photons_Dont_Matter_Much How does it undo anything? Those Doctors still did everything they did in the past. It's just that now the 14 that split off and stayed behind can process their trauma. They're not changing the past, they're coming to terms with it
the challenge we now have is we know The Doctor cant sit by and let bad things happen. So the next time the world is under treat an the 15th Doctor is helping to save the word, then you have to ask yourself "What is Tennant doing?, just hanging out in the back yard watching the world burn?"
I loved the Giggle. I don’t think it was completely flawless, but there was a lot to enjoy. I’m even into the idea of bi-generation, mostly because it gives the Doctor the opportunity to have a past, but also to be looking toward the future unburdened by it. It’s a neat little metaphor for how I’m hoping the new series will go.
I would also like to see more of these videos for the new series! Yours is one of the few channels I actually am interested in hearing the reactions to Doctor Who
I’m glad to have that honour, it’s really fun to share my opinions with everyone
I love the idea of 14 settling down on earth permanently. That being said, he’s still the Doctor, and any time earth was threatened or invaded, he’d defend it. Upon typing this I’m realizing that the President of the Earth is there full time now, and surely he’d have to deal with that. So truthfully anytime there’s an emergency on Earth he’d be there, with 15 or the future regens. But obviously they can’t do that, otherwise the doctor would never have to come to Earth again…
Such a considered and heart-felt response. Great job, Joe.
Thank you very much! It’s really nice to have supportive comments in a community that can be quite harsh
I think they’ve stretched the idea of regeneration so far it’s quite wild, but then again the doctor used up a regeneration cycle back in Journeys End which created the meta crisis doctor which created two seperate doctors, so it’s not like we haven’t seen this before, it’s just been done in a way we haven’t seen before.
to be fair there is always all the doctors existing at the same time. but for me i really liked the bi regeneration because it allows 15 to feel fresh and new, and do something never before done for the doctor, be happy. it reminds me of series 10, which to me still feels like the newest series in years.
Yeah that's a conclusion I kind of land on towards the end of the video, both points. Once I realised how bi-generation could be just as much in service of Ncuti's Doctor as it is of David's, it all kind of clicked for me.
I like to imagine that the toymaker caused the bigeneration. He made a mess of the doctor's history, intentionally turning it into a "jigsaw puzzle" and it backfired in the weirdest way possible.
I’ve also seen that used to explain the timeless child stuff, which is fun
I quite like the bi-generation, but totally get how some don't. The way I'm seeing it in my head is that the Doctor kinda did regenerate and Ncuti is THE Doctor, but 14 just got a happy ending instead of dying. I love the complicated tragedy of regeneration, but I also like that this one was turned on it's head and we got a joyful one for once. I adore DT, but I really hope we don't see his "parked" Doctor again for at least a few seasons (if at all) and the way RTD talks about it gives me hope that will happen, he seems fully invested in Ncuti.
I also really like the headcanon that 14 eventually becomes the Curator.
In the long run I think having a Doctor who has shed his trauma will be good going forward (for him to undoubtably pick up new trauma) and will help new fans coming onto the show, similar to how the Time War refreshed the show at the beginning of the revival.
Ultimately I think these 3 specials have been a bridge into the next era of Doctor who, packing up all of 2005-2022 and not disregarding it or erasing it but sending it off lovingly to live on in the background while a new story starts. And because Ncuti isnt a replacement for DT, audiences aren't gonna enter the new season feeling grief, like a lot of us did with Matt Smith. Therefore I think a lot of people are actually gonna be on board with it. It's a weird change and I get why some people don't like it. But personally I have a lot of hope for the next era.
This is exactly how I'm feeling. As much as David is my Doctor and it's been lovely to have him back, I would be happy never seeing the 14th again. He is off living his quiet life with his family. I imagine he'll be asking Mel and Donna what's going on at work (at UNIT) and them shushing him and sending him off to see what Wilf is up to in the garden. Like when someone retires.
Hi Joe, I have loved these 3 commentary style videos and have actively looked forward to them after the episode, please please keep them up for the next season(s)
Thank you Ben! I'll keep them up, I hope you continue to enjoy them
To me Bi-generation, just feels like a way to make it so David Tennant doesn’t die, for some reason, Russell has had an adversity to having him move on and except the change. I don’t like it
Yeah imagining that being the justification was definitely one of the reasons I was so against it at first. Although I'm now a bit more optimistic that it serves Ncuti as well.
@@Joe_Brennan_ That was easily the best part, Ncuti blew me away in seconds
my second favourite part of every week has been watching your reviews of the episode, so please please keep doing these when s15 comes out!! weekly you is almost just as good as doctor who. as for my thoughts, for the first time ever im excited for doctor who in a way thats different from my excitement for the 60th, its rekindled a love and enjoyment I thought I was only capable of as a kid. im 18 now and if i look back, the last good episode of doctor who was when I was 12, and thats heartbreaking but also so incredible that I get to watch all these now! ncuti is going to be incredible, and as for bi-generation, as you said, all of the doctors are everywhere all the time, so whether david is down the street or not it doesnt change the weight of his sacrifices or those of his companions, this break marks the renewal of the doctor in my eyes and im excited to see where russel brings this character next! and to me this is nothing new, remember in season 6 when matt smith had his very brief time lord victorious speech about being able to go and help rose tyler with her homework among other things? its always been the case that the doctor is everywhere everywhen, and part of his sacrifice is to live life linearly, and thats what makes the moments we have with them and their companions (i may have said he in this comment but im too lazy to go back and replace it with them but that was my intention! sorry, im quite tired lol) special and irreplaceable, and we saw the consequences of him meddling with that in hell bent, so like you said i dont think this breaks canon. and with a lot of RTD things, and with the show as a whole, its all ridiculous and its all made up and as long ss it doesnt contradict what came before (cough cough chibbers) then ill embrace it. and if it means we get 20 incredible minutes of ncuti as a preview then im never going to disagree with that. im more excited for season 1 than i was for the 60th and that isnt the conclusion i was expecting, but i very much think it was the conclusion russel wanted, and i feel like the show is back in safe hands and Im no longer worried and depressed about what the next episode is going to bring, im just excited to discover more and to meet ncuti properly. again, much love to you and your content, thank you for adding on even more to the thrilling ride that was the 60th, and looking forward to seeing you again at christmas!!!
Thank you for this really lovely comment, it means a lot to be part of the weekly viewing experience. I hope you continue to enjoy both Doctor Who and my coverage of it.
I’m kind of interested to see how or if this gets resolved. Will there be two separate diverging Doctors going forward? What happens if 14 regenerates? I’m personally kind of hoping they have it so they eventually ‘fuse’ back together like how the Watcher did in Logopolis. Maybe when 15 eventually regenerates they could merge and become the 16th Doctor. I was kind of hoping they’d explain why 10’s face came back in the specials but they never did answer that. I hope that gets explained eventually too.
My biggest concern is actually the whole copying the Tardis thing tbh. I hope this doesn’t mean the Doctor’s Tardis is made less unique. In a way the Tardis is a character in herself it would be a shame if she’s no longer the same ship we’ve been travelling with throughout the entire show and expanded media. I get they copied her but I still feel a bit uncomfortable by this decision almost more than splitting the Doctor.
Yeah on the one hand I think eventually merging the Doctors back together would ease my thoughts on this. On the other, I think it’s better for the show to just keep moving forward. As for the TARDIS, I’ve heard people say that they haven’t really split it in two so much as it’s just the same TARDIS at two points in time. I quite like looking at it that way.
@@Joe_Brennan_ There's been a lot of comments on this, but I think they're doing something where when tennant dies he goes back to the moment he regenerated into Ncuti, and Ncuti remembers everything that went on in 14's time living with on Earth. That's why Ncuti said "I'm ok because you fix yourself", his Doctor remembers all the therapy 14 went through, and that's why he's able to be such a positive character.
I notice that we still don't know who The Meep's "boss" is - apparently not the Toymaker.
It feels like since the renewed regeneration cycle on Trenzalore, the show has been treading dangerous ground in how it continually introduces new rules for how the Doctor is able to keep existing, such as the Timeless Child and bi-generation. It's been doing so as early as the Meta-Crisis Doctor, but the circumstances were quite specific on that one. Hell, even Twelve mocked death as being a man flu for Time Lords. I'm glad it meant Fourteen had his own happy ending, but the bigger picture is very complicated.
It feels like the worldbuilding is running a bit too wild with the process of regeneration and Time Lords as a whole.
Giggle was a huge yay, bi-generation was a nay, these videos are a yay.
I think people are being unfair in judging the success of the bigeneration on some future consequence that hasn't happened yet. Most of the criticism of it seems to be that it's not fair to keep Tennant around, that he can now keep coming back whenever he likes (as if the Metacrisis Doctor didn't already establish that, and Whittaker regenerating into Tennant proves we don't need an established idea anyway!)
If Tennant gets his own Disney+ spinoff in the next six months and runs alongside Ncuti's era, then that will be the appropriate time to criticise that idea. If he keeps popping back every few episodes to help out, that may feel as though it undermines Ncuti's work. But none of these things have actually happened, and may never happen. So what do people think of THIS? I think having your future self give you a hug and tell you it's gonna be ok is beautiful, and knowing your life is taken care of so now you can just relax and enjoy being with friends is a lovely ending to the whole revived era. That's ultimately all it's about. There's no need for us fans to keep inventing things that haven't happened yet and then getting mad at those things - it's basically Russell's exact point in this episode, with the entire human race thinking they're right. We're fighting with straw men for no good reason.
It needed "breaking"-religious adherence to canon cripples so many shows, and becomes a crutch more than a source of more stuff to pull interesting narrative from. The Doctor is a timelord, or half human, or maybe he's the timeless one, or maybe he is the 15th version, or maybe the first in a new line, or maybe none or these things, and all these things.
What matters is he is an alien time traveler in a blue box, with w a companion, going on weekly adventures.😊
I think this is an excellent way of looking at it. As is evident in the video, I end up quite positive on it, and I don’t necessarily mean breaking as a bad thing
@@Joe_Brennan_👍
I've rewatched the whole 60th special 'series' since coming to terms with how The Giggle ended and a lot of stuff that didn't entirely work for me on the first go around feels a lot more cohesive and right with the context of the entire thing.
Thematically it feels like the specials overall are about accepting the past and moving on in a more healthy way, which we see play out with Donna and David Tennant as 14.
The meta-crisis being resolved by having Rose and Donna simply choose to let go felt a bit cheap the first time around, but with this thematic angle in mind I think it really works. Donna probably couldn't have let go of it and let go of adventuring with the Doctor fifteen years ago when it was the only thing she really had to live for, but she built a life for herself now and has a daughter. She has attachments to Earth and life beyond the Doctor that she didn't have in Series 4, and this is reiterated in Wild Blue Yonder when she struggles with the idea of being stranded in space forever. Even as she's travelling with her old friend again she continually insists that it's temporary and she's going to move forward with her life on Earth, even though she's happy she has her memories back and the crisis was resolved in a much healthier way. The ability to simply let go of the meta crisis, the way I interpret it, is born from the fifteen years of development we missed, and it foreshadows the end of The Giggle beautifully.
On The Doctor's end, we see 14 repeatedly confronted with everything he's running from; not just the fallout of Chibnall's era but all the companions they've lost since Donna, all the people he's failed to save. Wild Blue Yonder shows just how desperately he needs to sit down with Donna and open up but can't bring himself to, how much it gets to him when the version he does confide in is a fake who mocks him. And The Giggle reinforces this with the Toymaker's mocking puppet show of The Doctor's worst post-Donna failures in front of her. 14 overall is a version of 10 who's lived three additional lives and learned a lot from the experience, but he still runs from everything, feeling like there is no other choice. In the end, 15 splitting off from him in a bi-generation allows him to finally stop running and process everything, while a less burdened version of him goes off on new adventures. The 14th Doctor learns to let go of his old lifestyle in a healthy manner just like Donna has.
It feels a little weird, given all the buildup made a lot of us think there was some special or sinister reason Tennant's face came back. But I really like the explanation we get here. Deep down, they knew they needed a friend to take it easy with for a while, and subconsciously they knew it could only be Donna Noble. The Bi-generation finally letting the Doctor embody the duality of his need to help the universe and his need to settle down is a great emotional resolution to that thread, even if the logic doesn't fully hold together. Fourteen had two very strange regenerations, and I don't know if they'll ever feel the need to overexplain it, but personally I like the idea that it happened this way because The Doctor has been in a very strange headspace since Flux, and subconsciously knew they needed this, so it's what they got.
Man this comment got long but I have a lot of thoughts on this. Hopefully some of my perspective was interesting though! I'll close off by saying that this feels like a response to the way the Moffat era always ended things off with bittersweet tragedies, there's a reason his three main companions were the central act in the Toymaker's puppet show. And while I love all of those exits, it is nice that. Just this once.
Everybody lives.
I really like the idea of the bi-generation (i feel like its a one time thing that only happened because of the influence of the toymaker creating chaos) and i think it was really important that donna and 14 didnt finish their runs in a similar way to the way series 4 ended, like i was really prepared for tragedy but im glad that it allows tennants doctors proper closure. Tennant's doctors have always been the most domestic of NuWho and the fact that he's allowed to settle down with his best friend in a mostly human life is so refreshing and clears the slate somewhat for ncuti's doctor. It means that 15 can have that more cheerful/easy-going demeanour without it seeming entirely like a show (which would just be rehashing 11 and 13s way of dealing with trauma) and allowing 15 to be a fresh take on the show.
The idea of Ncuti going out into the universe happy and energetic and with good closure and healing kind of makes the whole thing worth while
Spice up your life, 10/10 from me. What a crazy, wild and wholesome episode.
Absolutely love it.
It seems to me that bi-generation is a bit of a cheat by RTD for no better reason than that he can't bear to let go of (the admittedly very good) David Tennant.
He did the same back in 2008 with the MetaCrisis and fakeouts the regeneration in the same 2 Parter!!!
I really do like the idea of a maybe more human version of the doctor being the one to retire with his extended family and David Tennant is a good choice for that- wait didn't they already do that exact thing but with less problems?
big nay for bi-generation. Maintaining Tennant as a second active Doctor who can pop up at any time they are on earth goes against the show's core principal of change and moving on.
Yeah I really have to hope he doesn’t pop up any time
So I had this spoiled for me before I watched the special, and as a concept I was super concerned about it undermining 15, but watching it.... I actually really loved it. It felt right at home with the toy maker shenanigans and allowed 14, who seems to be carrying so much of the guilt and loneliness from past events, to have a happy (not-really) ending, and I love that. The dinner scene with the Noble/Temple Family (+Mel) was so satisfying and felt like a kind of closure for me as a viewer with 14 and a lot of the seemingly endless sadness from the past several seasons. I've always had my issues with RTD's writing, but the energy he and Gatwa are bringing is so refreshing and exciting. I'm definitely here for it.
It took me a while to formulate an opinion on it, as I was trying to wrap my head around Bi-generation. But I think after a while, I realized that not only is this far from being the dumbest idea, but Doctor Who has done weird regenerations before, most notably 10 regenerating into himself and creating a clone via meta crisis, and even in classic we had 4th Doctor into 5th Doctor, via merging with The Watcher.
So other than that, I think I can confidently say this was Great. My favorite part easily being all of The Toymaker's scenes, NPH's version has easily become one of my favorite DW villains, I genuinely wish we got more of him. Mel's surprise return was nice, she was never my favorite companion but I feel like it makes sense she's working at UNIT as other companions are aswell, plus Mel has always had computer skills that never really got tapped into during either 6 or 7's eras. I'm not quite sure what to make of 15 yet, obviously there's not much to go off of, but he definitely has the charisma, I think it's obvious they're gonna go for the more bubbly Doctor in the same lane as 8 or 13. And now with the specials concluded, I think i can confidently say I like the 14th Doctor, I'd argue if there is gonna be more of him, rather its a spin off or big finish, he'll probably be better than 10 to me. Overall, no matter what people will say, this was a great time, however I wouldn't say its the best anniversary in the world, feels more like an ending to New Who (2005-2023) setting up the Whoniverse with the "New series 1", but I can look pass that and still see work with a bunch of love put into it, and as a sort of ending to New Who, some don't like it, but I think its satifying. And i look foward to 15.
Who wins in a dance off, Sacha Dhawan Master or Neil Patrick Harris Toymaker?
well, the toymaker did mention having beaten the master in a game, so maybe it was the aforementioned dance off ;)
Thank you for this great comment, we seem to agree on a fair amount of things. I think the Toymaker’s dance sequence is by far the most impressive so he has to get my vote.
Metacrisis-10-doctor had the closure of being sent to a separate universe. But now whenever there's an existential threat looming over Earth, there's going to be a 14th Doctor hanging out in London just... weirdly... doing nothing to help.
A good way to resolve this could be to have 14 and 15 merge back together once the trauma has been dealt with. 14 essentially slowing down and doing the therapy for 15, while 15 has the big adventures. And 14 can have as long an offscreen lifespan as he wants, given he has a TARDIS.
@@rockallmusic Yeah, i think that would definitely assuage many of my mixed feelings about this. If this was just like, a temporary thing, and once he's worked through his trauma, he'll go. Frankly that's what I was thinking initially, like "Oh, they've split in two, but it's just a temporary thing because 14 is still dying. Right?" Apparently.... no, it isn't, he was just renewed in the same body. And made a new body. And that really undermines Ncuti and that's not fair to him. It's also not fair to 14, who was finally ready to let go and move on, but he doesn't get that closure.
The more I think about it, the less I like it.
I think the Bi-Generation was absolutely ingenious. I think it would be a good choice to make it so that the 14th doctor can not regenerate again after the Bi-Generation and only the 15th Doctor carries on the ability to regenerate now.
Since the doctors timelord origin backstory is essentially down the drain and he is the Timeless Child, anything is possible though. I wonder if they'll explore the Doctors Timeless Child Origins.
It would be interesting to know if the Fob Watch containing the memories of the Doctor from before the memory wipe by Division and Tecteun was duplicated within the Tardis. If not, I hope that the 14th Doctor gets a spin off show and he is the one who has the Fob Watch and eventually opens it. Timelord Victorious???
I really enjoyed the Giggle, it was overall phenomenal Doctor Who.
Interesting point about the fob watch, I imagine it transferred as they’re meant to be identical. But I had forgot that was a thread that could be revisited.
I like the way they say right off the bat that the new way they regenerated is a myth, it shouldn't have happened but it did so there it is
Yeah something like that happening during an encounter with a being who breaks all rules of the universe feels pretty fitting
I think the ending to the giggle was a fulfilling ending david Tennant got to be the doctor still but now has more time to spend with his new found family donna shaun wilf sylvia rose and others he gets to be happy and know his companion is safe as he will be around to keep it that way its the best outcome possible without tearing audiences away by say no im not watching next doctor they aren't my doctor which was how i felt after watching all of matt smith then he regenerated in to Peter capaldi and i was very annoyed with that as he played ceaser in fires of pompii when david Tennant played the 10th doctor so i refused to watch that one when i heard david was coming back and saw that Catherine tate would be in it i was like hell yes i will watch that and now after seeing Ncuti Gatwa as 15th doctor alongside david Tennant 14th doctor i am so willing to watch Ncutis doctor and see what lies in store for his form of the doctor P.S sorry for the long comment just wanted to give my opinion as you wanted to know really 😊
Thank you for sharing your thoughts! They do find a way of explaining the 12th Doctor’s face in his series so I would recommend giving his episodes a try
Well now one of the docs can fall through a time hole while regenerating into a little kid and become the times child.
Quite a funny bootstrap (grandfather?) paradox but I don’t hate it
I loved Bigeneration and duplicating The Tardis using 15s "prize". It was brilliant, 10/10.... Happiest I've been as a Doctor Who fan since Heaven Sent.
I’m so glad to hear this, it’s so great being happy with the state of the show
I would DEFINITELY tune in for these videos if you did them for Ncuti’s season! Please do! If you don’t I will be sad!!!
Well fear not, no sadness will be had. I'll cover Ncuti's episodes. I appreciate the enthusiasm
I genuinely thought Bi-generation worked, obviously it leaves a big plothole in that there is another doctor on earth now, but as someone who studies film, plotholes really aren't all that a lot of these youtube media critics play it up to be.
Overall i mostly agree with Joe, but seeing 15 on screen was so delightful that i literally said "yes!" out loud when he pulled out the mallet and made another TARDIS, it shows that he is gonna be playful and empathetic, weird and interesting, like Smith or Baker.
So I just hope that others who watch this see it the same way.
Whenever I think of the stuff 15 did in the episode, my worries just fade away. Even the concern of “this undercuts his first appearance” feels silly when you see just how much he dominates the screen
I've really enjoyed watching your thoughts on these episodes Joe, I'd like it if you did the same thing for Ncuti's first season :)
I loved this episode, the Toymaker was brilliant and seeing his realm was really cool, the puppets were creepy and terrifying. I liked seeing the references to things that have happened to the Doctor since meeting Donna and how that's played on his mind, like the companion puppets scene. My first thought about bigeneration was that it felt like cheating, but equally I loved seeing Ncuti's doctor interact with David Tennant's doctor, and actually seeing 15 for a good portion of the episode because usually after a regeneration you just see the new Doctor for a few seconds. So being able to see all that means I didn't mind bigeneration, I do think all your concerns are valid but we'll have to see how they handle it in future. I'm encouraged that Russell is very focussed on Ncuti's Doctor being "The Doctor" that the show will follow, and I like what you said about us not having much time to worry about things because the Christmas special is so soon and then we'll get a new series next year. I loved Ncuti as the Doctor and I'm really looking forward to seeing what he does next, the Christmas special looks like it will be great fun!
Thank you for the comment! It seems we agree on a lot of things. I’ve decided to continue these videos into Christmas and Ncuti’s Season 1, I’m enjoying them and it seems the people are too
The bi-generation could work well depending on what they do with it going forward because you can't just have 2 Doctors existing at once and not do anything with it. Depending on how and when it comes back and what they do with it, I think it could be pretty good. I definitely don't think it can be permanent, though.
Here's how I would do it:
Reveal during the series, through means I haven't figured out, that The Doctor wasn't technically supposed to die on that tower, that the Toymaster, being from outside the universe, kinda f*cked up the timeline, which is why they bi-generated instead, and 15 is technically from 14's future, which is how they could "do rehab in reverse", throughout the series keep dropping hints that the Doctor's true next death is coming soon. Also, make it clear that, while he's doing better than 14, 15 isn't entirely okay. In the finale, 14 comes back to help deal with the major crisis, now doing much better mentally, and keeps barely escaping death the whole time. Then, towards the end, 15 jumps in the way of a mortal wound meant for 14 and, instead of regenerating, is absorbed back into 14, causing 14 to properly regenerate into 15, now with all the memories of both Doctors, and somehow that combined knowledge is what allows him to save the day.
Yeah I think tying it into slightly more linear time travel stuff rather than simultaneous Doctoring would go a long way
I worry that Davies and Tenant screwed over another incoming doctor. First they vilify Matt Smith's Doctor just for being "born" and then they steal 15's entrance by overshadowing it with the non-regeneration of 14! Ncuti deserved his own entrance and beginning and the shadow of Tenant is cast over his entire run now. Hopefully the Christmas special gives him a proper first impression.
I thought it was great
I liked the Flux freak-out scene but worried that'd be the new ‘depressing past experience’ in place of the time war
Happy we're getting a burden-free doctor!!!!!
What makes me more ok with bigeneration is how it's a closed loop. Episode very strongly implies 14 eventually jumps back into the timeline at the exact point of bigeneration as 15. So it's not a split, as the word first implied to me.
This is what makes it work for me as well. the episode kind of implies contradictory things on that front, but until this reading is explicit contradicted, it’s how I’ll see it
I’m going to throw it out there.
I don’t think I can get behind the bi-generation.
I thought it was a fun way to defeat the toymaker but I feel that having David tenant hanging around just completely takes the shine off Ncuti taking over as the doctor.
From now on everyone will always be asking for David tenant to come back. Doctor who needs to move on from tenant, while I love him as the doctor the show needs to move forward and not always keep a foot in the past.
I was really looking forward to Ncuti taking over, I haven’t been this excited for a new doctor since Peter C and the bi-generation has totally spoiled it for me.
I felt to make bi-gen work, the point where the 14th and the 15th Doctors are talking and the 15th is like everything from now will be fine, the 15th could have effectively absolved the 14th’s “sins” (can’t think of a better way to phrase it) and then the 14th and 15th become a whole doctor again then the doctor fully regenerates.
That for me would have been a better ending and a more fitting way to draw a line over the last era of Dr Who ready for the Disney era.
I feel the bi-gen only gets a pass because it was RTD and tenant. If it was anyone else writing or a different doctor everyone would really not agree