I’ve got a Vannifar deck that has ascendency as an alt win con. Funny thing is that I’ve got Pir, Toothy, and Vorel in it as well. Really fun to get pir out as well as vorel to triple the counters on something... Now, whenever my play group sees ascendancy come out, they target me, but it’s fine.. I still win
Zada was a pretty dirt cheap deck and packs a serious punch. I think there are some very strong mono-colored commanders that can be built for incredibly cheap, I'd love to see this channel go into them more. A $25 deck once in a while would be appreciated.
build a gollos deck, and put in all 23 alt-win-cons, add a bit of life gain, a few artifacts and a few "copy target creature" spells, maybe not the cheapest, but deffinetly fun
@@darkokoroshi5883 Oh definitely. Good thinking! I'm trying to build up a library of commander decks so I dont get bored playing the few I have right now, so I would be good to build up some for cheap.
I think it is banned because stuff like progenetious exists, which is a creature of each basic color, and can potentially be freecasted early on in a 5 color deck
@@aaronbasham6554 Progenitus?! ProG just wins, effectively, anyways. Transguild Courier doesn't need to be cheated out, cause it's generic mana costed CMC 4, rather than all color pips CMC 10. The point is: compared to other win conditions and infinite combos out there, Coalition Victory isn't too easy, nor too fast.
It never occurred to me that Coalition Victory was banned until I happened to see it on the commander ban list one day. I had gone through several games with it and no one batted an eye.
Mechanised production (2) (B) (B) "at the beginning of your upkeep create a coppy of enchanted artifact at the beginning of your upkeep if you controll 8 or more of the enchanted artifact you win the game" if you place this on say a treasure token you can win in one turn
And the video ended Happily Ever After... except it didn't. Good list though! Always good to have these in the back of your mind when constructing decks or even while playing.
I've built whole decks around the win con on Mechanized Production. Even without the outright win it provides a ton of value in decks like Brudiclad or Sai, Master Thopterist.
seems like a more balanced coalition victory, not that coalition victory is broken but im sure theres more tha none way to break coalition victory with teferi nonsense
Morophon reduces the cost of all spells you cast of a creature type by WUBRG. At least you’ll be able to do something like cast Jodah, and then cast spells for free!!
I would love an errata to allow 4 copies of Hedron Alignment in a commander deck. I might actually run that by my play group and see if they're ok with that.
@@auroralee if you were in my play group, I'd personally allow it, it would take set up that could easily be taken care of. But of course if not you'd win.
I had a deck that's only wincon was battle of wits. I had a "sideboard" of 250 basic lands I would shuffle in. I think it was a Riku deck if I remember correctly. Was super fun but incredibly kanky and if the combo didn't go off you just lost
Cast Barren Glory then in response cast Kaervek's Spite. Or cast Kaervek's Spite at the end step just before your turn if you have an academy rector in play then go find Barren Glory. Those wtf moment on my opponents face were glorious.
I used your budget build for Queen Marchesa, but threw in Tamiyo's Journal. Had Approach of the Second Sun in hand turn one. Cast it with 2 clue tokens around turn 18 (I waited til last minute to see as much of the deck as I could). Next turn, got my third clue on upkeep, sacrificed them to tutor Approach back into my hand, cast it and won with 2 life to my last opponent's 38. Pretty sweet win.
Wow, these are some cool cards! I'd love to see some decks built around these wincon cards, and even some of the commanders you showed, like Pramikon. I've never seen him before!
Part of me would argue that if I'm in a position where I'm going to try and cast Coalition Victory, I probably have a grip of counterspells or other interaction to protect the win-con. But you could say that about any sort of combo or instant-win card. Unless the player needs to throw a hail mary and try to win before someone else does, they're always going to play their "I win" cards when they know they can win. Honestly I think the only real argument for Coalition Victory being banned is that it wins on the spot and can't really be predicted. Basically once a WUBRG deck is on 6 mana, it forces people to play conservatively. This is unlike Revel, Pinnacle, etc. which need to hit the board, meet some criteria, and possibly have a timing restriction as well. However, I would also argue that a card like Coalition Victory would sort of self-police itself. A person playing it would only win with it once within a given playgroup. After that, they would be focused out of the game whenever they played that deck again.
I actually run Approach of the Second Sun in my Yennett deck, since I can usually play it for free the first time, and then have it back in my hand within two or three turns. It's my normal wincon for that deck
I have won a couple times with Approach in my Varina, Lich Queen deck. If you have some way to draw cards, plus Varina’s loot ability for attacking with zombies, you can fairly easily cast it once, attack to loot, next turn (if you’re alive) attack to loot again, then cast the spell again.
I've taken a number of games with Mayael's Aria and its alternate win condition with an Uril deck. "I can leave it be for one turn, it's an upkeep effect and he is still strong" followed by a surprise might of the oaks for the win. Great way to win with Uril if someone has a lot of aggro hate, like fog effects and mass removal. And anyone who has played with or against Uril in their friend group knows that it doesnt take long for people to build that hate into their decks.
Hey Mitch, i'm dropping by just to remember everybody that Kefnet exists and is a legit commander for a LabMan/Jace deck. He costs 3 mana, has indestructible, and draws you a card everytime you can pay 4 mana (more or less like Thrasios). So, imho, he can be even better than Gadwick at what they do (drawing your entire deck with infinite mana) or can be used alongside Gadwick or Thrasios as a dirt cheap back-up wincon. He can also be a nice defensive wall on the first turns or win through commander damage quite easily as a plan B. Sorry for the intrusion, but i'm trying to build around him since when i pulled a Kefnet invocation from a booster and i think this Ibis needs more love. Ps. Congratulation for the channel growth! You are one of the main reasons i was pulled toward commander and i'm really glad that you are receiving all the recognizement you deserve. :)
Loved seeing Maze's End! This card needs more love! I have a Golos deck with that as the main win condition in it, and it's incredibly fun and can move very quickly. It isn't budget by any means, but it's very fun!
I'm considering building a Noyan Dar deck as my next one. He's pretty unique in the colors, but making your lands into vulnerable creatures is risky. I'd also love to see Mitch's take on it.
I have a Rakdos demon tribal deck that has Chance Encounter, Liliana’s Contract, and revel in riches as alternative wincons. They usually get blown up fast but having multiple of them out at once can be difficult to deal with. I just got a Mayael’s Aria for an Atla Palani Wurm tribal deck, which even if it doesn’t win the game right away will still be a good way to gain life every turn
aawwww Mitch! i am flattered you put half of my decklist on here! a couple things though... correct me if i am wrong, but i don't remember seeing Hellkite Tyrant here, hellkite and revel in riches is a duo that really eats resources to deal with. Or Happily Ever After for that matter! and i do get why Coalition Victory is banned unfortunately... i really want to play with it, but if it is in my deck, i almost always win, and i dont even have a Prismatic Omen or Sphinx of the Guildpact! yes there are plenty of answers to it, but it is the only alt win con that is immediate. all of the others have a step check, which means that you can fire it off when you see that every one is tapped out and go unopposed, and since its not a step check, if you give it flash, you can do that on someone elses turn, removing any chance for things like Wilderness Reclamation from putting people in a place to deal with it. For as much as i would love to bump the power level of the deck and include this, it is too easy to build a deck that just fetches all the pieces and ends the game so early.
There have been a lot of alternate win condition cards in the past 5-10 years. We once only had a few things like Mortal Combat, Test of Endurance, Collation Victory and so forth. Now there is a swath of them, and that is interesting. None are over powered and each is flavorful.
Wanted to build around a commander deck with triskaidekaphobia and tree of perdition; not necessarily a win-con, but more of a lose con for your opponents
Azor's Elocutors comes to mind, but than people would probabbly start telling me it's only good in Atraxa or other strategies that could proliferate counters. Mayel's Aria is quite unique too. My favorite though might be just Nicol Bolas, Dragon-God's last abbility. Feels so flavorfull and proud.
I've heard people argue that, because Coalition Victory can come out of nowhere, it can't be legal. And personally, I'd love to put it in my Dominaria deck. I've got all of the Coalition cards in there, so being able to use that card would be pretty great for the theme! You did list quite a few things that make it something that can easily be worked around as well, with land/creature destruction or a simple counter. I'll see if I can give voice to this reasoning next time I play with that deck to see if it can be included. Of course, if the person playing Coalition Victory also has someone like "Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir" out on the field, there goes all of the counterplay. I think that's one of the reasons that you didn't mention that it was banned; Not only can you make all lands all basics, or have a creature of all colors, you can also just prevent someone from casting things during your turn, at which point it's just "Spend 8 mana to win the game" which can feel not very good to other people, especially when it's out of nowhere. But hey, other cards that come out of nowhere that win you the game, like Cyclonic Rift, are still legal, so why not?
I'm playing a Sultai Morph Deck with Kadena, Slinking Sorcerer. Kruphix is already in the Deck. Do you think it would be better to play the Biovisionary and Infinite Reflection Combo or just put Helix Pinnacle in it. Thanks for your advice.
Maze's End sounds really good, especially since that second commander you recommended can search it as well as the cards you need for it out, and lands are generally harder to get rid of.
I run second sun in my jeskai elsha deck and jace, wielder of mysteries as a win con for when I mana sink into draws in my alela, artful provocateur deck :3 I think second sun is relatively underrated, especially since jeskai actually has very many ways to recur instants/sorceries from the graveyard if it ever gets countered
Coalition Victory would work well in a Niv Mizzet reborn deck. Not only would you have a 5-color commander, but if you run a bunch of dual lands such as prairie stream, you can draw enough lands that you only need to cover the casting cost.
I think that Lazav, the Multifarious would also work with lab maniac not only because you have alot of discard options in blue and black (not to the mention surveil on Lazav himself) but also you don't even have to worry about casting lab maniac because Lazav can copy him before you draw your last card.
Biovisinary with rite of replication kicked seems pretty good. It's also at the end step and not the beginning so your opponents will have to stop you on your turn.
Wow, these are some cool cards! I'd love to see some decks built around these wincon cards, abnd even some of the commanders you showed, like Pramikon. I've never see him before!
Thanks for the cool video, Mitch! Actually, alternate win cons are an interesting topic for me... Seeing as I have a jank EDH deck with every single viable win con shoved in! It's ridiculous, and so fun :D
Revel in Riches would work pretty well with Smothering Tithe. If they don't have any solid answers at the time, taxing them so they can only play so many spells before you outright win the game is a pretty interesting situation
I’ve been looking into ways to upgrade my Otrimi pre-con, and now i kinda want to make it a zaxara deck with simic ascendancy. Absolutely disgusting. I love it.
Careful with Child of Alara as a commander, though. Since going to the Command Zone is a replacement effect, and it has to hit the graveyard for the trigger to occur, you may not get to blow up the board as often as you'd like
I know your channel is about budget commander, but I would love a commanders2cent about 5 non-budget cards thats actually worth investing into! Having 5 cards to trade/buy into knowing you could use in several decks could save you a fair bit amount of money in the future! :)
I have what I call the "Path of Peace" commander deck. I run azorius colors with a couple extra win cons so I dont have to fight. Mechanized Production. Approach the second sun. Combo Panoptic Mirror with Beacon of tomorrows.
I'm am thinking about making a mono white control deck with an alt win-con being The Cheese Stands Alone (Barren Glory). Mostly because I don't want the win con to be typical like beating people with creatures, but I might put Approach as another win con
i actually run a bunch of this cards on my Atraxa win conditions deck, and i have to say is one of the most fun decks i own , all win conditions are valid
Mechanised Production kind of fits next to Revel in Riches, cloning an artifact of choice. Often its more seen as a wincon for Brudiclad, or a value-piece for multiple copies of Sol Ring in basically any blue deck.
Simic ascendency at my lgs is pretty busted as they're usually combined with pir and sometime toothy. Top that off with hardened scales, so each instance of a +1/+1 counter equals 2 +1/+1 counters which equals 3 growth counters. This is before the doubling season players up of course as we all play with budgets in mind.
Simic ascendancy is great in my kumena deck. Not only does it flood +1/+1 counters in tribal, it can also be an unblockable commander damage dead in three or two atks.
I was thinking about putting it in the Vorosh, the Hunter, because say one doubling season, and a double strike affect with 6 mana can get you to 24 counters in one attack. And then he is also pumped in case they remove the enchantment.
@@slydoorkeeper4783 in kumena tribal it's easy too. You need deeproot waters and sa out, then cast five low cost merfolk, including kumena if not already out, then on opponents end step tap ten merfolk to spawn 20+ +1/+1 counters and u win on upkeep.
@@typhlocf5062 I mean, I get that. I like my dragons though, also I'm a 3 color kind of player. I hate mono and 5 color. Depending on the commander, 2 and 4 color but that's s maybe. 3 is the sweet spot. That and I love sultai.
I have it in Animar, Soul of Elements (as a Hydra tribal deck). Since it counts creatures that come into play with counters, a lot of the time I can just cast a hydra and drop 13+ counters on Ascendancy immediately. Getting to 20 usually takes 2 turns maximum, and I get it in a single turn fairly regularly if I have a decent board state when it comes down.
The rules committee have said the original ban list was more of a "don't play cards like this" so by putting coalition victory on there I think they were trying to say they didn't like alternate win condition cards in commander. I dont think this should be the case but it explains why only Coalition victory is on there.
Surprised Mechanized Production and Spell Swindle aren't mentioned. A lot of Blue Artifact commanders that could easily take advantage of this. I've won a game by managing to get out Mechanized Production early (Convinced my group it isn't a threat since I also missed a land drop and only had 1 treasure token prior) then countering a high CMC spell with Spell Swindle a few turns later before my turn and having at-least 7 treasure tokens before my turn (Everyone was tapped out and couldn't respond). Yeah in a CEDH environment it's pretty fragile, but in a casual group is pretty unexpected. Have this combo in my Baral deck and one of the alt win-cons in the deck besides traditional Mono blue alt-win con of Lab Maniac + Enter the Infinite.
From this video I love alt win cards and I literally made a alt win tribal deck it’s a jank tribal that some people do you can find some decks on all the site that have deck building and for tips Golos Ramos child of Alara and Progenitus are the most used legends for this tribal Now I want to see a deck tech on a alt win tribal Oh ps besides rakdos the showstopper like you said changeling tribal can do that so for that morophon or the reaper king are the choices (Reaper king usually several of the scarecrows have to be changelings and the enchantments that turn creatures into scarecrows so you can do lilianas contract because of that.)
so i actually put laboratory maniac/jace in a temur omnath deck, i find if i try to guard myself, i can cast 40+ cost stroke of genius etc, so i can just draw 80 in 2 turns and win
I would've loved to see a mayael's aria :( but the 20 creatures one did get my attention 😆, if people can have turns where they can exile wvery card but lands, then yeah that's fine.
I'd say that Narset makes a good commander for approach of the second sun, as she can rapidly decrease the number of cards you need to get through to cats it a second time, while also giving you value.
The fact that the natural flow of play will make it hard to cast from hand after you put it seven cards down makes this feel rather specifically like a nombo
The best way to abuse Approach of the Second Sun is to bounce it back to your hand after the first time you cast it, since it doesn't care if it had resolved before.
near death experience + worship worship puts you at 1 so long as you have a creature, just use shroud and become indestructible (by force) self dmg or just wait
I feel like the reason Coalition Victory is banned is simply because it wins you the game instantly, and the setup is quite easy for a 5 colour deck running fetch + shock lands. Such a deck can easily just cast its commander and fetch the necessary land types to setup. The key difference though is that that card doesn't require you to wait for anything other than the setup. You don't need to wait for your upkeep for it to trigger, or draw your last card, or replay it after casting it the first time. With its condition being so generic in a 5 colour deck that it may as well say 'If you control a creature you win the game.' I understand it being banned. All that said, it's a 8 mana sorcery that can be responded to with counter magic or kill spells for the creatures. 8 mana is a lot, so perhaps it doesn't *need* to be banned. I think it's more banned for the fact that it breaks a core modern design principle: That 'win the game' cards should have to be heavily telegraphed, either sitting on the board or (in one case) being previously cast.
I made a super janky deck that basically had all of these cards in it, had jodah as commander, platinum angel, and just as many alternative win conditions I could stuff in there... With Mana ramp and some cloning.... And proliferation.... It's a.... Not good deck but my God is it fun as hell to see the reaction to it...
I really can't believe you left Mechanized Production off of this list. Would have gone great in the section with Revel in Riches. Could have called the section "haha, I have more artifacts". Way to drop the ball there bub :P
Tbh progenitus is almost just as easy to deal with in commander as any hexproof creature. Most decks run either board wipes or targeted removal, progenitus dodges targeted and dies to wipes, as does any hexproof creature. And if you happen to run into some kind of damage based wipe then Most decently sized creatures dodge most of those as well.
Instant killing everyone out of no where with Vraska, Scheming Gorgon is very odd and satisfying, even if it doesn't fit these sorts of alternate win conditions. And yes, I have done this. (Vraska, pinger like Spear Spewer, doubler like Deepglow Skate, and haste for your pinger.)
My favorite alternate win con is arguably the Maze's End. Here's my current build: Golos, Tireless Pilgrim Azorius Guildgate Bojuka Bog Boros Guildgate Cascading Cataracts Command Tower Dark Depths Dimir Guildgate Evolving Wilds Exotic Orchard Field of the Dead Forbidden Orchard x9 Forest Gateway Plaza Golgari Guildgate Gruul Guildgate Island Izzet Guildgate Krosan Verge Lotus Field Maze's End Mountain Orzhov Guildgate Plains Plaza of Harmony Rakdos Guildgate Selesnya Guildgate Simic Guildgate Strip Mine Swamp Temple of the False God Terramorphic Expanse Thespian's Stage Avenger of Zendikar Azusa, Lost but Seeking Beanstalk Giant Bringer of the Black Dawn District Guide Elvish Reclaimer Elvish Rejuvenator Gatecreeper Vine Knight of the Reliquary Lotus Cobra Mina and Denn, Wildborn Nissa, Vastwood Seer Omnath, Locus of Rage Omnath, Locus of the Roil Oracle of Mul Daya Oran-Rief Hydra Rampaging Baloths Ramunap Excavator Realm Seekers Roil Elemental Rubblehulk Scaretiller Tatyova, Benthic Druid The Gitrog Monster Tireless Tracker Titania, Protector of Argoth Ulvenwald Hydra Walking Atlas Wayward Swordtooth Chaos Warp Crop Rotation Growth Spiral Mortify Putrefy Circuitous Route Duneblast Escape to the Wilds Explore Hour of Promise Hour of Revelation Open the Gates Scapeshift Splendid Reclamation Sylvan Scrying Tempt with Discovery Unexpected Results Urban Evolution Burgeoning Exploration Guild Summit Retreat to Coralhelm Zendikar's Roil Crucible of Worlds Expedition Map Horn of Greed Kiora, the Crashing Wave Lord Windgrace Nissa, Steward of Elements Nissa, Vital Force
This goes out to all other Simic ascendancy fans, make those counters matter!
Ezuri
ayyy simic ascendancy gang
My first ever win with my Omnath was Simic Ascendancy.
I’ve got a Vannifar deck that has ascendency as an alt win con. Funny thing is that I’ve got Pir, Toothy, and Vorel in it as well. Really fun to get pir out as well as vorel to triple the counters on something...
Now, whenever my play group sees ascendancy come out, they target me, but it’s fine.. I still win
@@xarshoon7157 My first game with my Ezuri deck I was able to get an ascendancy win.
I would love to see a video on the absolute cheapest possible commander deck that still might have a chance to win.
Zada was a pretty dirt cheap deck and packs a serious punch. I think there are some very strong mono-colored commanders that can be built for incredibly cheap, I'd love to see this channel go into them more. A $25 deck once in a while would be appreciated.
build a gollos deck, and put in all 23 alt-win-cons, add a bit of life gain, a few artifacts and a few "copy target creature" spells, maybe not the cheapest, but deffinetly fun
@@auroralee feather the redeemed bight just be the cheapest
@@darkokoroshi5883 Oh definitely. Good thinking! I'm trying to build up a library of commander decks so I dont get bored playing the few I have right now, so I would be good to build up some for cheap.
Ruric Thar is a budget CEDH deck. You build it to your meta. It plays like a hammer.
Coalition Victory depicts the most impactful event in the lore, at it's conclusion.
Weatherlight saga was avengers endgame before avengers endgame
I think it is banned because stuff like progenetious exists, which is a creature of each basic color, and can potentially be freecasted early on in a 5 color deck
@@aaronbasham6554
Progenitus?! ProG just wins, effectively, anyways.
Transguild Courier doesn't need to be cheated out, cause it's generic mana costed CMC 4, rather than all color pips CMC 10.
The point is: compared to other win conditions and infinite combos out there, Coalition Victory isn't too easy, nor too fast.
Point is, you can win turn 4 with jodah archmage eternal
@@aaronbasham6554 Still doesnt make sense bc it was banned before stuff like reaper king and prog
Don't forget Happily Ever After too ;) I like this card a lot,
specially in a kenrith group hug deck.
It never occurred to me that Coalition Victory was banned until I happened to see it on the commander ban list one day. I had gone through several games with it and no one batted an eye.
Mechanised production (2) (B) (B)
"at the beginning of your upkeep create a coppy of enchanted artifact
at the beginning of your upkeep if you controll 8 or more of the enchanted artifact you win the game" if you place this on say a treasure token you can win in one turn
1:27 Alternative Title: Everything Counts in Large Amounts.
What about Tree of perdition and Triskaidekaphobia. Win with the power of thirteen. I've only won one game with it but it was hilarious when I did.
How have I never thought of that... that's absolutely brutal and perfect flavor.
i just commented on the 13 card. It was epic
Lel nicely done
its one of my win cons in my Walls/trees Tribal deck With commander Doran
And the video ended Happily Ever After... except it didn't. Good list though! Always good to have these in the back of your mind when constructing decks or even while playing.
I've built whole decks around the win con on Mechanized Production. Even without the outright win it provides a ton of value in decks like Brudiclad or Sai, Master Thopterist.
John Sanders Absolutely man! I love me some artifact decks and that win con is so satisfying
Mech production is amazing in my clue tribal deck
Man, I was really hoping you'd cover Happily Ever After.
Im surprised it wasn't at least mentioned alongside Coalition Victory
My prerelease stamped card. I was thinking any card but HEA, any card but HEA....so I was not at all surprised when I saw it was HEA.
or barren glory
seems like a more balanced coalition victory, not that coalition victory is broken but im sure theres more tha none way to break coalition victory with teferi nonsense
@@Alexiel-f6o coalition victory can easily be a win in turn 5 in the right deck
Now I can build a 5 color jank to include all of these
Sisay, Golos, or Morophon might be your best bet. Heck, it might not be as jank as you’d think with Morophon.
5 color bad stuff for when you are too hindered trying to get all your colors to do anything
Morophon reduces the cost of all spells you cast of a creature type by WUBRG. At least you’ll be able to do something like cast Jodah, and then cast spells for free!!
It's to bad that alternate win conditions like Hedron Alignment and Battle of Wits are unplayable in our format
I would love an errata to allow 4 copies of Hedron Alignment in a commander deck. I might actually run that by my play group and see if they're ok with that.
@@auroralee if you were in my play group, I'd personally allow it, it would take set up that could easily be taken care of. But of course if not you'd win.
@@auroralee I'll bet the best way would be in a cube format
I had a deck that's only wincon was battle of wits. I had a "sideboard" of 250 basic lands I would shuffle in. I think it was a Riku deck if I remember correctly. Was super fun but incredibly kanky and if the combo didn't go off you just lost
Wish cards probably need a multicolor deck or Karn cloning there's only 2-3 wish cards I'm aware of in most colors.
Cast Barren Glory then in response cast Kaervek's Spite. Or cast Kaervek's Spite at the end step just before your turn if you have an academy rector in play then go find Barren Glory.
Those wtf moment on my opponents face were glorious.
I happen to win a game once with Azor's Elecutors, i think i flew under the radar a bit, but it was a pretty satisfying win.
Did I detect a slight note of sarcasm on why coalition victory has to be banned?
...maybe haha
I used your budget build for Queen Marchesa, but threw in Tamiyo's Journal. Had Approach of the Second Sun in hand turn one. Cast it with 2 clue tokens around turn 18 (I waited til last minute to see as much of the deck as I could). Next turn, got my third clue on upkeep, sacrificed them to tutor Approach back into my hand, cast it and won with 2 life to my last opponent's 38. Pretty sweet win.
My favorite win con is mechanized production, it on a myr battlesphere means you win the next turn, and then I normally take an extra turn
Wow, these are some cool cards! I'd love to see some decks built around these wincon cards, and even some of the commanders you showed, like Pramikon. I've never seen him before!
Part of me would argue that if I'm in a position where I'm going to try and cast Coalition Victory, I probably have a grip of counterspells or other interaction to protect the win-con. But you could say that about any sort of combo or instant-win card. Unless the player needs to throw a hail mary and try to win before someone else does, they're always going to play their "I win" cards when they know they can win.
Honestly I think the only real argument for Coalition Victory being banned is that it wins on the spot and can't really be predicted. Basically once a WUBRG deck is on 6 mana, it forces people to play conservatively. This is unlike Revel, Pinnacle, etc. which need to hit the board, meet some criteria, and possibly have a timing restriction as well.
However, I would also argue that a card like Coalition Victory would sort of self-police itself. A person playing it would only win with it once within a given playgroup. After that, they would be focused out of the game whenever they played that deck again.
I actually run Approach of the Second Sun in my Yennett deck, since I can usually play it for free the first time, and then have it back in my hand within two or three turns. It's my normal wincon for that deck
I have won a couple times with Approach in my Varina, Lich Queen deck. If you have some way to draw cards, plus Varina’s loot ability for attacking with zombies, you can fairly easily cast it once, attack to loot, next turn (if you’re alive) attack to loot again, then cast the spell again.
I've taken a number of games with Mayael's Aria and its alternate win condition with an Uril deck. "I can leave it be for one turn, it's an upkeep effect and he is still strong" followed by a surprise might of the oaks for the win.
Great way to win with Uril if someone has a lot of aggro hate, like fog effects and mass removal. And anyone who has played with or against Uril in their friend group knows that it doesnt take long for people to build that hate into their decks.
Hey Mitch, i'm dropping by just to remember everybody that Kefnet exists and is a legit commander for a LabMan/Jace deck. He costs 3 mana, has indestructible, and draws you a card everytime you can pay 4 mana (more or less like Thrasios). So, imho, he can be even better than Gadwick at what they do (drawing your entire deck with infinite mana) or can be used alongside Gadwick or Thrasios as a dirt cheap back-up wincon.
He can also be a nice defensive wall on the first turns or win through commander damage quite easily as a plan B.
Sorry for the intrusion, but i'm trying to build around him since when i pulled a Kefnet invocation from a booster and i think this Ibis needs more love.
Ps. Congratulation for the channel growth! You are one of the main reasons i was pulled toward commander and i'm really glad that you are receiving all the recognizement you deserve. :)
Kefnet the Clairvoyant is the only reason I've ever wanted to play mono-Blue in commander. He's really fun to build around and play imo.
Loved seeing Maze's End! This card needs more love! I have a Golos deck with that as the main win condition in it, and it's incredibly fun and can move very quickly. It isn't budget by any means, but it's very fun!
i would love to see a video on Noyan Dar, Roil Shaper.
He seems criminally undercosted for his abilities
I'm considering building a Noyan Dar deck as my next one. He's pretty unique in the colors, but making your lands into vulnerable creatures is risky.
I'd also love to see Mitch's take on it.
I have been brewing an "all alternate wincon" deck for a while now. Just straight shenanigans.
Him:jace is more resilient than creatures because he's a planeswalker
Najeela:*laughs in firststrike *
I have a Rakdos demon tribal deck that has Chance Encounter, Liliana’s Contract, and revel in riches as alternative wincons. They usually get blown up fast but having multiple of them out at once can be difficult to deal with. I just got a Mayael’s Aria for an Atla Palani Wurm tribal deck, which even if it doesn’t win the game right away will still be a good way to gain life every turn
Mechanized production is nice in Artifact decks, since you can get a copy of your best artifact every turn even without the alternate win con.
I put 8t on a caged su. In my mono blue deck
aawwww Mitch! i am flattered you put half of my decklist on here! a couple things though... correct me if i am wrong, but i don't remember seeing Hellkite Tyrant here, hellkite and revel in riches is a duo that really eats resources to deal with. Or Happily Ever After for that matter! and i do get why Coalition Victory is banned unfortunately... i really want to play with it, but if it is in my deck, i almost always win, and i dont even have a Prismatic Omen or Sphinx of the Guildpact! yes there are plenty of answers to it, but it is the only alt win con that is immediate. all of the others have a step check, which means that you can fire it off when you see that every one is tapped out and go unopposed, and since its not a step check, if you give it flash, you can do that on someone elses turn, removing any chance for things like Wilderness Reclamation from putting people in a place to deal with it. For as much as i would love to bump the power level of the deck and include this, it is too easy to build a deck that just fetches all the pieces and ends the game so early.
There have been a lot of alternate win condition cards in the past 5-10 years. We once only had a few things like Mortal Combat, Test of Endurance, Collation Victory and so forth. Now there is a swath of them, and that is interesting. None are over powered and each is flavorful.
I made a Maze’s End deck with Progenitus that used the alternate win condition fairly regularly. I just packed it with counter spells and land tutors.
I'm about to build a Kenrith deck with a ton of "I win the game cards". This list helped out a lot. Thanks!!!
yours is my favorite commander channel, bar none. Innovative and informative for the casual player like me.
Wanted to build around a commander deck with triskaidekaphobia and tree of perdition; not necessarily a win-con, but more of a lose con for your opponents
Simic ascendancy with the new hydras growth from TbD is pretty insane
Azor's Elocutors comes to mind, but than people would probabbly start telling me it's only good in Atraxa or other strategies that could proliferate counters. Mayel's Aria is quite unique too.
My favorite though might be just Nicol Bolas, Dragon-God's last abbility. Feels so flavorfull and proud.
I've heard people argue that, because Coalition Victory can come out of nowhere, it can't be legal. And personally, I'd love to put it in my Dominaria deck. I've got all of the Coalition cards in there, so being able to use that card would be pretty great for the theme! You did list quite a few things that make it something that can easily be worked around as well, with land/creature destruction or a simple counter. I'll see if I can give voice to this reasoning next time I play with that deck to see if it can be included.
Of course, if the person playing Coalition Victory also has someone like "Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir" out on the field, there goes all of the counterplay. I think that's one of the reasons that you didn't mention that it was banned; Not only can you make all lands all basics, or have a creature of all colors, you can also just prevent someone from casting things during your turn, at which point it's just "Spend 8 mana to win the game" which can feel not very good to other people, especially when it's out of nowhere.
But hey, other cards that come out of nowhere that win you the game, like Cyclonic Rift, are still legal, so why not?
I'm playing a Sultai Morph Deck with Kadena, Slinking Sorcerer.
Kruphix is already in the Deck.
Do you think it would be better to play the Biovisionary and Infinite Reflection Combo or just put Helix Pinnacle in it.
Thanks for your advice.
Maze's End sounds really good, especially since that second commander you recommended can search it as well as the cards you need for it out, and lands are generally harder to get rid of.
I run second sun in my jeskai elsha deck and jace, wielder of mysteries as a win con for when I mana sink into draws in my alela, artful provocateur deck :3 I think second sun is relatively underrated, especially since jeskai actually has very many ways to recur instants/sorceries from the graveyard if it ever gets countered
Coalition Victory would work well in a Niv Mizzet reborn deck. Not only would you have a 5-color commander, but if you run a bunch of dual lands such as prairie stream, you can draw enough lands that you only need to cover the casting cost.
Would "barren glory" or "the cheese stands alone" qualify for the "that was way to close" category?
Was kinda hoping Angel of Grace would get an honorable mention as a support cards to this win condition.
Considering the process to win with those cards, I'd say no.
my favorite non-traditional win cons are either : Chance Encounter or Etrata, The Silencer
Maze's End is awesome. I've stealed some games where the table didn't paid enough attention to how many gates there was, and it's always hilarious!
I think that Lazav, the Multifarious would also work with lab maniac not only because you have alot of discard options in blue and black (not to the mention surveil on Lazav himself) but also you don't even have to worry about casting lab maniac because Lazav can copy him before you draw your last card.
I use approach of the second sun and maze's end in the same commander deck. Very awesome videos
Biovisinary with rite of replication kicked seems pretty good. It's also at the end step and not the beginning so your opponents will have to stop you on your turn.
I gotta say this is the fastest ive gotten to a vid
Morophon changeling tribal with Liliana's Contract is so easy to assemble. I love it.
Wow, these are some cool cards! I'd love to see some decks built around these wincon cards, abnd even some of the commanders you showed, like Pramikon. I've never see him before!
Thanks for the cool video, Mitch! Actually, alternate win cons are an interesting topic for me... Seeing as I have a jank EDH deck with every single viable win con shoved in! It's ridiculous, and so fun :D
Holding out for Rankle
Revel in Riches would work pretty well with Smothering Tithe. If they don't have any solid answers at the time, taxing them so they can only play so many spells before you outright win the game is a pretty interesting situation
I’ve been looking into ways to upgrade my Otrimi pre-con, and now i kinda want to make it a zaxara deck with simic ascendancy. Absolutely disgusting. I love it.
Careful with Child of Alara as a commander, though. Since going to the Command Zone is a replacement effect, and it has to hit the graveyard for the trigger to occur, you may not get to blow up the board as often as you'd like
I know your channel is about budget commander, but I would love a commanders2cent about 5 non-budget cards thats actually worth investing into! Having 5 cards to trade/buy into knowing you could use in several decks could save you a fair bit amount of money in the future! :)
ah Helix pinnacle.
Ran it in my Sasaya deck as a alt wincon. It is super fun
I have what I call the "Path of Peace" commander deck. I run azorius colors with a couple extra win cons so I dont have to fight.
Mechanized Production.
Approach the second sun.
Combo Panoptic Mirror with Beacon of tomorrows.
Personal favorite alternative win con is turning creatures sideways and doing combat damage in a meta focused around non-combat win cons.
I have a coalition victory and I have no idea how or when I got it but it is my favorite card in my collection
I love me some hellkite tyrant as well :)
Probably the best I win card, but not because of it's I win text.
@@olafthemoose9413 stealing someone's hard earned artifacts is always nice. Especially if you have mycosynth lattice out :)
@@SidneyGutteridge absolutely brutal. Especially if you can give ot haste or cheat it into play with kaalia or illharg. Feels so good.
Oh hey I have a foil biovisionary and I think I got a few methods of using him now. Gracias Magic-pig-man!
I'm am thinking about making a mono white control deck with an alt win-con being The Cheese Stands Alone (Barren Glory). Mostly because I don't want the win con to be typical like beating people with creatures, but I might put Approach as another win con
Laboratory Maniac/Jace, Wielder of Mysteries is also a card I want to put in my “My hand is my deck and my deck is my hand” Tasigur commander deck.
I've cast Approach of the Second Sun twice in one turn with my Varnia zombie deck, so much fun
i actually run a bunch of this cards on my Atraxa win conditions deck, and i have to say is one of the most fun decks i own , all win conditions are valid
Mechanised Production kind of fits next to Revel in Riches, cloning an artifact of choice. Often its more seen as a wincon for Brudiclad, or a value-piece for multiple copies of Sol Ring in basically any blue deck.
Simic ascendency at my lgs is pretty busted as they're usually combined with pir and sometime toothy. Top that off with hardened scales, so each instance of a +1/+1 counter equals 2 +1/+1 counters which equals 3 growth counters. This is before the doubling season players up of course as we all play with budgets in mind.
Simic ascendancy is great in my kumena deck. Not only does it flood +1/+1 counters in tribal, it can also be an unblockable commander damage dead in three or two atks.
I was thinking about putting it in the Vorosh, the Hunter, because say one doubling season, and a double strike affect with 6 mana can get you to 24 counters in one attack. And then he is also pumped in case they remove the enchantment.
@@slydoorkeeper4783 in kumena tribal it's easy too. You need deeproot waters and sa out, then cast five low cost merfolk, including kumena if not already out, then on opponents end step tap ten merfolk to spawn 20+ +1/+1 counters and u win on upkeep.
@@typhlocf5062 I mean, I get that. I like my dragons though, also I'm a 3 color kind of player. I hate mono and 5 color. Depending on the commander, 2 and 4 color but that's s maybe. 3 is the sweet spot. That and I love sultai.
@@slydoorkeeper4783 I got you fam. I have favorites for commander too.
I have it in Animar, Soul of Elements (as a Hydra tribal deck). Since it counts creatures that come into play with counters, a lot of the time I can just cast a hydra and drop 13+ counters on Ascendancy immediately. Getting to 20 usually takes 2 turns maximum, and I get it in a single turn fairly regularly if I have a decent board state when it comes down.
The rules committee have said the original ban list was more of a "don't play cards like this" so by putting coalition victory on there I think they were trying to say they didn't like alternate win condition cards in commander. I dont think this should be the case but it explains why only Coalition victory is on there.
Quick question: why isnt there a link to your kickstarter under the show description?
Surprised Mechanized Production and Spell Swindle aren't mentioned. A lot of Blue Artifact commanders that could easily take advantage of this.
I've won a game by managing to get out Mechanized Production early (Convinced my group it isn't a threat since I also missed a land drop and only had 1 treasure token prior) then countering a high CMC spell with Spell Swindle a few turns later before my turn and having at-least 7 treasure tokens before my turn (Everyone was tapped out and couldn't respond). Yeah in a CEDH environment it's pretty fragile, but in a casual group is pretty unexpected.
Have this combo in my Baral deck and one of the alt win-cons in the deck besides traditional Mono blue alt-win con of Lab Maniac + Enter the Infinite.
*plays Liliana's Contract in changeling scarecrows, alt win cons are fun.
From this video I love alt win cards and I literally made a alt win tribal deck it’s a jank tribal that some people do you can find some decks on all the site that have deck building and for tips
Golos Ramos child of Alara and Progenitus are the most used legends for this tribal
Now I want to see a deck tech on a alt win tribal
Oh ps besides rakdos the showstopper like you said changeling tribal can do that so for that morophon or the reaper king are the choices
(Reaper king usually several of the scarecrows have to be changelings and the enchantments that turn creatures into scarecrows so you can do lilianas contract because of that.)
so i actually put laboratory maniac/jace in a temur omnath deck, i find if i try to guard myself, i can cast 40+ cost stroke of genius etc, so i can just draw 80 in 2 turns and win
Approach the second sun with a copy spell ability is instant win. Simic ascendancy with hydras plus vorel is insane
Wasn't there something like Coalition Victory that came out in Eldraine?
Happily Ever After
I would've loved to see a mayael's aria :( but the 20 creatures one did get my attention 😆, if people can have turns where they can exile wvery card but lands, then yeah that's fine.
For Coalition Victory, one guy in my playgroup with a Kenrith deck who keeps winning with Happily Ever After by flashing it in just before his upkeep.
I played in a casual pod once, and won with N.D.E. The commander was Saskia, and I choose myself as the damage taker
I suggest running teysa karlov because you can run smothering tithe with revel in riches to get more treasure
I really missed cards like Triskaidekaphobia. How about a video with alternative lose Cards ?
I'd say that Narset makes a good commander for approach of the second sun, as she can rapidly decrease the number of cards you need to get through to cats it a second time, while also giving you value.
The fact that the natural flow of play will make it hard to cast from hand after you put it seven cards down makes this feel rather specifically like a nombo
I have always wanted to pull off Mortal Combat + Iname, Death Aspect. I think it is an adorable little synergy.
The best way to abuse Approach of the Second Sun is to bounce it back to your hand after the first time you cast it, since it doesn't care if it had resolved before.
Or uses sunbirds and drop 2 at once. One in hand resolves last
Can't have two in commander. You could Sunbird's and in response to Sunbird's trigger Commit it. That's a lot of mana, though.
Happily Ever After with a color hoser like Scuttlemutt & Paradox Haze is easy to fulfill in Zur :D. Been cheesing with it a lot.
I feel like Happily Ever After is kind of a new coalition victory
Is it strange that the opening song now feels nostalgic? I love it
near death experience + worship worship puts you at 1 so long as you have a creature, just use shroud and become indestructible (by force) self dmg or just wait
I feel like the reason Coalition Victory is banned is simply because it wins you the game instantly, and the setup is quite easy for a 5 colour deck running fetch + shock lands. Such a deck can easily just cast its commander and fetch the necessary land types to setup. The key difference though is that that card doesn't require you to wait for anything other than the setup. You don't need to wait for your upkeep for it to trigger, or draw your last card, or replay it after casting it the first time. With its condition being so generic in a 5 colour deck that it may as well say 'If you control a creature you win the game.' I understand it being banned.
All that said, it's a 8 mana sorcery that can be responded to with counter magic or kill spells for the creatures. 8 mana is a lot, so perhaps it doesn't *need* to be banned. I think it's more banned for the fact that it breaks a core modern design principle: That 'win the game' cards should have to be heavily telegraphed, either sitting on the board or (in one case) being previously cast.
I made a super janky deck that basically had all of these cards in it, had jodah as commander, platinum angel, and just as many alternative win conditions I could stuff in there... With Mana ramp and some cloning.... And proliferation.... It's a.... Not good deck but my God is it fun as hell to see the reaction to it...
I really can't believe you left Mechanized Production off of this list. Would have gone great in the section with Revel in Riches. Could have called the section "haha, I have more artifacts". Way to drop the ball there bub :P
Put Mechanized Production on one of those treasure tokens to both accelerate and double your chances to revel in your victory!
Tbh progenitus is almost just as easy to deal with in commander as any hexproof creature. Most decks run either board wipes or targeted removal, progenitus dodges targeted and dies to wipes, as does any hexproof creature. And if you happen to run into some kind of damage based wipe then Most decently sized creatures dodge most of those as well.
I play approach in my Elsha Spellcopy, utilizing anticipate effects.
I just got a W last night with maze's end in a golos golem deck. So happy
Instant killing everyone out of no where with Vraska, Scheming Gorgon is very odd and satisfying, even if it doesn't fit these sorts of alternate win conditions. And yes, I have done this.
(Vraska, pinger like Spear Spewer, doubler like Deepglow Skate, and haste for your pinger.)
My favorite alternate win con is arguably the Maze's End. Here's my current build:
Golos, Tireless Pilgrim
Azorius Guildgate
Bojuka Bog
Boros Guildgate
Cascading Cataracts
Command Tower
Dark Depths
Dimir Guildgate
Evolving Wilds
Exotic Orchard
Field of the Dead
Forbidden Orchard
x9 Forest
Gateway Plaza
Golgari Guildgate
Gruul Guildgate
Island
Izzet Guildgate
Krosan Verge
Lotus Field
Maze's End
Mountain
Orzhov Guildgate
Plains
Plaza of Harmony
Rakdos Guildgate
Selesnya Guildgate
Simic Guildgate
Strip Mine
Swamp
Temple of the False God
Terramorphic Expanse
Thespian's Stage
Avenger of Zendikar
Azusa, Lost but Seeking
Beanstalk Giant
Bringer of the Black Dawn
District Guide
Elvish Reclaimer
Elvish Rejuvenator
Gatecreeper Vine
Knight of the Reliquary
Lotus Cobra
Mina and Denn, Wildborn
Nissa, Vastwood Seer
Omnath, Locus of Rage
Omnath, Locus of the Roil
Oracle of Mul Daya
Oran-Rief Hydra
Rampaging Baloths
Ramunap Excavator
Realm Seekers
Roil Elemental
Rubblehulk
Scaretiller
Tatyova, Benthic Druid
The Gitrog Monster
Tireless Tracker
Titania, Protector of Argoth
Ulvenwald Hydra
Walking Atlas
Wayward Swordtooth
Chaos Warp
Crop Rotation
Growth Spiral
Mortify
Putrefy
Circuitous Route
Duneblast
Escape to the Wilds
Explore
Hour of Promise
Hour of Revelation
Open the Gates
Scapeshift
Splendid Reclamation
Sylvan Scrying
Tempt with Discovery
Unexpected Results
Urban Evolution
Burgeoning
Exploration
Guild Summit
Retreat to Coralhelm
Zendikar's Roil
Crucible of Worlds
Expedition Map
Horn of Greed
Kiora, the Crashing Wave
Lord Windgrace
Nissa, Steward of Elements
Nissa, Vital Force