Orville has more of a Star Trek vibe than the last couple of Star Trek movies. It's like Star Trek, but with less competent crew, and a bit of comedy sprinkled on it.
I would say it has more of the campiness of the original star trek with the updated special effects of voyager and more interpersonal relationships of TNG & DS9
After 4 episodes, I'm hooked. Episode 4 barely had any comedy, it was just Star Trek! 11/10. And I really like how the characters are neither valiant nor villainous, as opposed to most characters I can remember in previous Star Trek series.
Max Izrin Definitely. Even though I don't agree with Seth McFarlanes politics at all he doesn't force them into the structure of the show. They do pop up but they don't overwhelm the Orville. It's mind boggling to me that Seth fucking McFarlane is now the reasonable guy in the room in the entertainment industry as far as forcing politics down the throat of the audience.
Also I don't like how it's marketed as a spoof. I get that they needed to have it fit into a genre but I'm almost hesitant to call it a spoof. It is as much a celebration of what made Star Trek great as it is a loving spoof. It's got real heart to it, unlike Star Trek Diversity which feels like a vicious SJW is wearing the flayed skin of Star Trek while emotionlessly spouting typical SJW drivel instead of....ya know....providing a good story with likeable characters.
The Rottten Tomatoes scores: Critics - 20%, Audience - 90%. This is a clear sign that it's a great TV show that pissed off the people it was supposed to piss off. I'm enjoying this show so far.
@Katajiro So people who watch TV for a living are supposed to be pissed off...why? You sound like Rian Johnson, giddy at the prospect that he got to piss off a ton of people with the Last Jedi. That should never be the objective.
I thought the transgender episode was handled pretty well. They did present both sides of the argument and did not make a definitive judgement. Mercer himself was very torn on the issue. They let the audience consider and make up their own minds Anyway, it's clear that Orville>STD by far.
True but no need to read too much into it. I think the main idea was that you cannot anticipate someone's future and anyone could at some point accomplish something great. Of course, it was not as good as the TNG episode with Data's trial, whether he is Starfleet property or a sentient being. But I don't really expect that kind of thing from The Orville. The show is good for what it is.
UnknownXV definately agree on that one. Using emotional arguements and irrelevant comparisons to argue against a popularly accepted cultural norm was pretty terrible. Could have been much better.
Eh, I dunno about them not making a definitive judgement. All of the human crew was strongly on the side of leaving the baby female. The planetary government for their species was strongly for the trans surgery. Only the mate, who had been forcibly transgendered himself was really for the surgery. I think if more of the Orville's crew had been for it, and some not, it would've been more left up to the audience. They also could've gone farther into exploring the "being forced by the state" angle, which could've made it a much more powerful episode.
This was my take away from the episode as well. It was sympathetic to both points of view as well as mocking both. In any case, it wasn't preachy and it didn't insult viewers who took one side or the other. That's a far cry from most of the stuff we see from Hollywood anymore.
I was dreading that 3rd episode given the topic, but it turned out to be my favorite (so far). Unlike most of hollywood, Seth handled the subject respectfully for most points of view and there were really no bad guys on either side of the argument. My heart felt a bit heavy for Bortus since he will have to live with the consequences of someone else's choice. Like real life.
I think Orville benefits from not being Discovery....If i'd watched this first I'd think less of it, but it's much more watchable that the fucking garbage that is Discovery.
I think thats likely but I also think it works both ways. I saw 2 episodes of Orville before Discovery and I think I might have liked Discovery more if I hadn't seen the Orville first
It also works in yet another way, that I watched the first two episodes The Orville, was overjoyed by how much I love it because it really has the true Star Trek feel\vibe, then was dragged into watching the first episode of Discovery, already knowing it was going to be a pile of crap, which was confirmed by watching, which gave me an actual headache in the process, because of how bad it is. Watching The Orville before or after Discovery wouldn't have made a difference in my view on Discovery, even if The Orville didn't exist, I would have the same view about Discovery. I'm a diehard Star Trek fan, and over the course of every year and a half or so, I re-watch most if not all of every episode from all the Star Trek series. Discovery doesn't have a chance with true Star Trek fans, as Discovery isn't Star Trek. It isn't written or have the storytelling of Star Trek, the characters aren't Star Trek, the drama isn't Star Trek, the action isn't Star Trek, the effects aren't Star Trekj, the aesthetic\design of the costumes\ships\tech isn't Star Trek, and it isn't filmed like Star Trek. I mean come on! They up and wholly changed the iconic Klingon race, with actors not trained and totally butchering the Klingon language(though I'm not sure they actually used a proper source to get the language right). Actual Klingon when spoken in actual Star Trek, was guttural but fluid. In Discovery, the language is choppy, weak, and slow, with it sounding like all the actors playing Klingons had cotton balls or something stuck in their mouths. And finally not to mention that there ship and their costumes made them look like space Egyptians instead of a unique alien race with its own culture. There are zero redeeming factors to Discovery, except that it is crashing and burning so hard that it just might make CBS take notice and make them steer the franchise back to what it show be, which is like all other Star Trek series, that aren't the Abrams films and Discovery. This is because Discovery is being blown out of space by The Orville, because The Orville is more Star Trek than it, because The Orville is basically Star Trek with light Seth MacFarland comedy.
Yeah The Orville is far superior. Although I will say the ideas behind STD are valid its just the SJW way they implement them that is so hard to stomach.
CBS/Paramount are giving us exactly the Star Trek that everyone doesn't want. It seems like they've figured out all the best elements of classic Trek, and removed exactly those elements from the franchise. I'm not sure what is so awful about giving Trek audiences what they want that CBS have to completely ignore it in favour of Star Trek Diversity.
Incorrect. Star Trek has always been about leaving behind our differences, not focusing on them. Star Trek was always about unity. That's the opposite of diversity.
SJW leftism. That's what's wrong with giving Trek fans what they want. We don't want SJW leftism and that's what they think we should want. How very Steve Jobs of them,...
I recently re-watched Disco's 3rd episode - and the second time around you do notice the performances are a bit cringe and the dialogue is very exposition heavy - also at times I was reminded of Space Above & Beyond. But I did notice the second time that Burnham does at least give directions where to pick her up. The problem I really really noticed is the visuals are flawed and that they do not match the dialogue. For example Burnham says pick her up 200 foot off the deck - the deck is barely 200 foot long it might be 200 foot wide but it certainly isn't 200 foot high so I found her instruction most unclear. and it didn't seem to match the visuals. Likewise the spiral Damage on the Glen's hull - was just not visible to me - either it was just to subtle, to dark or just not rendered at all. Perhaps those watching on a very good TV in 1080p could see more than I could on a smaller screen. but if they insist on such detail then they really need to make the show in 4K to make it comprehensible. I should not have to pause and zoom to try to find thing in the visuals - they need to make that clearer.
"But disappointingly, the Maclon council forces the surgery in the end anyway!" Actually, that's what really impressed me. One big drawback of Star Trek was watching the humans strut through the galaxy and make aliens discard their millennia-old culture after holding a five-minute speech. That's not only absurdly unrealistic, but also extremely racist, because it divided the universe into the morally superior humans and the unenlightened savages in dire need of getting civilized - the Sci-Fi version of the White Man’s Burden. In a remarkable dialogue with Sisko, the deserter Eddington goes so far to liken the Federation to the Borg in that regard: th-cam.com/video/xy5jAixHhSA/w-d-xo.html DS9 had many such examples where you could debate morality afterwards, instead of having it preached to you. As I see it, this Orville Episode stands in that tradition. In contrast to the TNG episode "The Outcast" (S5E17) which portrays a performed sexual correction as a brainwashing lobotomy that is to be condemned, we are here left with the character Klyden who was subjected to the treatment and nevertheless supports it. While I have my own strong opinion on this topic, I approve that the Episode gives food for thought and debate to all sides. In that context, I didn't find it to be pandering to SJWs. On the contrary, the alien advocate brings up some very interesting arguments, including pointing out how Circumcision on male infants does not meet the proudly proclaimed standard of consent. I honestly don't know a single show from any genre that has seriously addressed Male Genital Mutilation as a negative before. Do you?
Great point about the circumcision topic which is taboo in SJW circles. Come to think about it, I don't remember ever hearing it brought up in popular entertainment.
Circumcision is only done in the states because each circumcision gets the doctor a payment. Do a few hundred and you get enough money to buy a car. Only reason doctors do it is for money. There is no real medical benefit to doing it to an infant especially since the infant is not put under anesthesia and there have been well documented cases of the surgery being horrifically botched to where the male infant had to under go gender reassignment surgery thereby making the child sterile. Lets just say a number of those cases the person wanted to kill the doctor who performed the circumcision and in one famous case almost did.
I would call The Orville an earnest Galaxy Quest in that it uses the tropes, and situations of the Trek/sci-fi genre, but it a bit more lighthearted in its approach. It is almost a "slice of life" look at the daily, routine life on a Trek-like ship that is in the fleet, but nothing close to a flagship of the fleet. The characters have been written pretty well, so far, and the cast has enough difference between the characters being portrayed that the possible interactions give me some hope for the show, provided it sticks around long enough to get there. Additionally, The Orville actually allows me to smile and laugh when the jokes hit just right. It has a sense if hopefulness to it that Discovery seems to lack. I will continue with The Orville to see where they go next.
It fits the position of spoof and parody. Just because it may address a serious subject -- every now and then -- don't let that fool you into thinking its actually on par with ST or even a sci-fi. Sit-coms have followed that same formula for the past 40+ years. Comparing The Orville to ST would be like comparing Scrubs to ER.
So far I'm definitely preferring The Orville to the dark miserable collection of unlikable characters that is Star trek Discovery. I actually quite liked the ending to the 3rd episode. Far from the current SJW attitude of "everyone should think the same as us or we'll force it on you", I thought the outcome of the aliens standing by their own cultural practices and going against what the human characters though was right (and the humans having to accept that and move on) was a nice surprise. If anything I'd just say that it may have been better placed later into the series as to let us get to know them better first rather than hitting us round the head with it so early on.
thumbwarriordx I can't help feeling were going to get plenty of shots of him doing interesting things in the background as were stuck following Burnham walking round with a face like a smacked arse and being told how great she is as she cocks everything up once again.
It was pointed out that every starfleet captain in the original series that wasn't Kirk was crazy - which if you think about it makes Lorca a tradition. In TNG it's the Admirals that are often nuts.
A very nice surprise indeed. I was astonished that a moral disagreement of this caliber didn't devolve into a laser fight over the fate of the newborn child with the morally righteous protagonists opposing with everything they had an outcome they considered to be wrong. Instead the trial was their fight, and the protagonists all accepted its outcome even though they both disagreed with it and had an entire laser shooting starship at their disposal with which to resist if they'd so wanted. That itself was a moral statement, especially in contrast to episode 2's plot hinging on the entire crew wanting to violate protocol and a direct order from an admiral in order to do what they thought was right. It shows that this crew has some hills they are willing to die on, but it's not all hills.
That was indeed a brilliant episode in every way and in the beste Star Trek tradition, uprising questions without raising the morality or ideology finger. I also loved the fact that they lost - and took it with dignity. We fought, we lost, we are moving on. Not grab the child and run away shooting everyone in sight.
If the Orville would be just like the trailers, it would not be worth much, but it´s more than that and one can feel that there is some brain behind the writing. It´s very lightweight, not so extreme overblown, nothing new there, but very well watchable and the people feel real. All in, it´s way more watchable than Discovery.
I preface by saying that The Orville is great, but pretty much almost everything is more watchable than Discovery, because Discovery is so bad that it is literally unwatchable. Nothing good or redeeming about it.
I'd have to massively disagree about the third episode. It didn't feel like an "sjw" or "progressive" episode. It was about how different cultures clash and that something may seem wrong to one group, but to another it's perfectly normal. It was a fairly interesting story and I thought the end was pretty good because it never painted the surgery as a good thing. It never tried to say "this right and this is wrong", it instead tried to show that a lot of situations of grey areas.
If you are in the desert and trying to find food and water and you come upon someone and ask are you on the right road and they tell you, "there are a lot of gray areas." Have they been helpful? If you deal in gray areas rather than absolutes all your life you'll never learn anything. Including the difference between right and wrong.
One thing most people forget is that Seth MacFarlane actually appeared in one or two episodes of Star Trek: Enterprise as an engineer aboard the Columbia.
Episode 4 is great, the episode best so far. Episode 3 was ok, and to be honest, I kinda agreed with the decision in the end. I was delighted that they compared it to circumcision. Now, I am generally against circumcision and gender reassignment surgery, but in this case, the child would be heavily disadvantaged being a female in a predominantly male society. It's the cost of living in a society.
The most ludicrous part was the weird assumption that circumcision would still be practiced in the XXVth century, when society is described as post-religious and medically advanced.
the 3rd episode was the weakest of the 3? are you kidding me? I thought it came at the issue well balanced, and transgender isn't even one of the largest themes. It brought a well thought out morality play that reflects on modern culture but isn't, because they're aliens. It was classic star trek and made me fall in love with the show.
I feel the 3rd episode was a good balance, and at the end they aren't comfortable with it still. Even Borus gives the kid a Rudolph plush toy to make the audience even more aware that the final result wasn't necessarily the best choice. I enjoyed the 4th episode too. All I look forward to this fall/winter on TV is Orville and my secret shame, Outlander. Both are produced by ex Star Trek production staff, so maybe not a coincidence Maybe Stranger Things from Netflix as long as that dumbass actor doesn't let politics seep into the series.
Timothy Dalbeck It's awkward when you watch some episodes with your husband, and you're strong Scottish descent while he's English. Then he asks if you like kilts and you immediately say yes without thinking. We both went into that series as Trekkies first...
The series suggests that the final outcome almost definitely wasn't the best choice. Sometimes, we don't get what's best, but we have to live with it anyway.
Yeah The Orville is definitely more like ST then STD, I'm glad it's not just a comedy and has more of a drama feel to it. I think that the 3rd episode is actually satirising people who want to change their child's gender (I could be wrong here), but I enjoyed the episode nonetheless, the 4th episode is the best one yet in my opinion. So far I'm enjoying the series as a whole and really hope that fox doesn't cancel it like it does with everything else. I would also like to see Patrick Stewart make a cameo.
The forth episode is actually the weakest of them all so far. It's basically a poor copy of the ToS episode of *For the World Is Hollow and I Have Touched the Sky* where Dr. McCoy goes to an asteroid ship and the people on that ship doesn't know it's a ship.
I respectfully disagree that it's the weakest, I think the 3rd episode is the weakest, but this is all a subjective opinion, I don't see how using a concept from another show makes it weaker, there were times when watching DS9 or ENT when I'd noticed that the plot is somewhat similar to previous STs, I honestly think that it's hard to come up with new ideas at this point most ideas have been done already, I realise that it had a similar plot but I don't think that takes anything away from it. I honestly don't care if it borrows from ST, it's an homage to ST after all and as they say: Imitation is the highest form of flattery. Besides I don't think it was lacking in quality and that's really what I'm interested in, I was still entertained and still think it's a great show overall, even if some episodes are hit or miss, every ST show has had it's misses, and in most cases (if not all) has had shaky starts especially TNG, VOY, and ENT, I think that Orville has started on a decent foundation, and hopefully will improve from here. And one of the most important and simultaneously sad things is that it's better than STD. I enjoyed the 2nd episode too, at first it reminded me of The Cage, but it did take a different turn.
That is supposed to be what DISCOVERY hired continuity watch dogs for not to try to keep it feeling right in canon terms - but simply to let them know if they are repeating themselves.
Continuity watch dogs? LMAO they did a terrible job. Maybe it's literal, they have actual dogs watch ST and watch their reactions to see if they notice any discontinuity between the previous Canon. "continuity watch dogs for not to try to keep it feeling right in canon terms" Wait are you saying they got people to make sure the show wouldn't be like original ST canon, or am I misunderstanding?
+Armoured Septic It's not that it uses plot from ToS that makes it weak. It's that it didn't go far enough with the plot compared to the original ToS episode. The original story fleshes out more of the story. How the people slowly forgot they were on a ship. How the religious order persecuted anyone who asked questions. The orville only touched upon those themes but didn't fully explore them. That's what makes it weak, compared to the orginal.
I loved Orville, as a completely new show in its own. And I loved the fact that they didn't get into the whole teleportation quandry and instead used physical transport.
The 3rd and 4th episodes are the best so far. I think your political glasses colored your stance towards the 3rd episode. It never makes you think the show is on either side and has a really decent unexpected ending. I think your negative feelings are mostly because you expected a comedy. If you spent some time following the production of the show you'd figure out that it was supposed to be a dramedy from the start. Fox made a mistake because it tried to market it as a comedy in the trailers.
i have negative feeling too but it was mostly because of how the court room stuff went down. like when they had the security officer bend the block the opposing lawyer said the a male would be able to to it easier and they dismissed it as irrelevant when it was completely relevant. Also when the random woman they found was actually their greatest writer was a gross contrivance i cringed, it has potential though.
We have to be a bit utilitarian here. They can't go and just say "Yeah women suck and men are just better." They have to make some kind of argument or they would piss off the Hollywood diversity crowd.
PasOdMater They can't be obviously wrong or so contrived that it makes people roll their eyes. They need to do better if they are going to make arguments
Yeah, but the point was that the crew doesn't have laywer in the team. First officer only have one year in training long time ago. It is to be expected, that she would blunder the trial hard, and, as a result, lose the trial. She's no Picard, after all. I like episode 3. It was great
Episode 3 was not that bad. It was not one sided as it didn't outright show that "This is bad and this is good". I could easily understand both sides as it was not solely gender thing. It's a shame you did not watch ep 4. It would be interesting to hear your opinion on that one. Cheers mate
And episode five could have starred Matt Frewer or Jason Alexander? But HOW was it done? Was it done better? Are people thinking, "Yup just like Kirk, ol' Seth-y is hopping into bed with another space hottie!", or was this an entertaining (re)telling of an old story?
The big thing here is that The Orville has gotten better with every episode. Meanwhile, Discovery just keeps getting worse. And The Orville started out much better. I would love to see more of the Orville. Everyone involved with Discovery can go starve.
Orville is quite good parody of the craziness of stupid Hollywood version of sci fi, life in general and against political correctness, by using political correctness against political correctness.
I like how for no good reason Kelly getts into fights while Alara stands around and watches - I find this immensely amusing on about a dozen levels. She seems straight laced but she's not she starts fights and takes stronger recreational drugs than Ed is prepared to go near. I bet she's been in more than a few Bar room brawls. I half expect them to say she's broken her nose six times or something like that.
The Orville was better than most syfi shows it was well written, funny and always keeps you interested not saying its 10 star show but it makes a night with friends and family worth remembering
@Dave Cullen You should have waited for the 4th Episode for this Review... I liked that a lot and I really liked your thoughts about it as well. And I don't know what I have to make of the 3rd Episode, if it is an SJW one or if it takes a piss on them (because that race is all male and they view females as inferior)...
Seth MacFarlane is a genius! Have you considered the message brilliantly dramatized in The Orville 2-part episode “Identity”? From the beginning of the series, a thread of “machine supremacy” was implicit in dealing with Isaac. Living with humans was, no doubt, a constant source of frustration - stupid humans. But since we met Isaac, stupid humans have rubbed off on him, for good or for ill. He has made connections with various characters, most notably Dr. Flynn and her sons. Now, Isaac is faced with having to choose between his people and his adopted family. His people, we discover, were enslaved and even tortured by their humanoid builders, forcing the created beings to annihilate their creators. Now, we discover that the Kaylons, scarred by a horrible mistrust of biologicals, have been secretly considering whether to suffer humanoids to live or to obliterate us. The Kaylons remind Isaac of the laundry list of atrocities humans have perpetrated on their own kind throughout history. Ironically, the Kaylons are perpetrating the same evils that they preach against. As with all identity politics, its most radical advocates commit the very sins they accuse the other side of. The question at the heart of “Identity” is whether Isaac will accept the “Kill Humanoids!!!” party line and swallow the Humanoid stereotype pushed by his people, or reject that in favor of his real-life experiences with humans of good character. Where does his identity lie? Isaac rejects the “identity” politics that label all biologicals as evil and deserving execution. He, instead, embraces his own real-life positive experiences with humanoids and first resists and then openly opposes his own people. This episode is an indictment of identity politics. It shows the prejudice, blind hatred, the hypocrisy and the evils that it leads to. Whether it is synthetic life vs. biological life, black human beings vs. white human beings, or human men vs. human women, gay individuals vs. straight, it is a horrific injustice to accept the stereotypes and blind hatred of identity politics. We must, instead, judge others by the content of their character, not by their biology, color, culture, religion, gender, or creed. Isaac, ultimately, knew better, and so should we.
The fourth epi really came into its own and was legitimately good. It feels like it's really getting its own personality and confidence. It was a lot like something you'd see in the second or third season of TNG.
Epi 5 was awesome and felt like a legit TNG successor show. I get the sense that this is going to come into its own and be a strong offering, as long as the suits don't prematurely Firefly it.
The episode "about a girl" was a condemnation of SRS for those too young to decide for themselves. The plot was about trying to prevent the girl from being reassigned.
I actually really liked episode 3's ending. If it was an episode of TNG or Voyager. The crew's efforts would have changed the perspective of a few key members of the society and begun a cultural revolution that would make the people question their practice that is commonplace. But instead the jury made the logical choice of just do it anyway because that's what they've always done and the crew gave no real evidence for them to change their minds. They gave 0 statistical data and relied on examples from other species and a single example of a female who just happened to be a great writer. It shows that real life doesn't just end in a happy little lesson whenever shit hits the fan. Sometimes you don't get what you want just because you believe in it.
Yes, I agree. It's a light hearted space romp that, to me, evokes the spirit of original Star Trek. It touches on some modern issues, but doesn't do so in a heavy handed fashion. There's a bit of conflict within the crew, but no more than you'd expect between people who're stuck in a tin can with each other. Basically they're a bunch of people you want to spend an hour with each week, which is the key to a successful series.
I absolutely love it for the reason some people seem to be turned off, it isn't what I thought it was going to be. I tuned in to see Family Guy in Space, but instead I got a solid, light-hearted Star Trek homage. Wasn't overly thrilled with the pilot but each episode has gotten stronger, and fuck me, episode 4 could have been taken straight from TNG. Loving it! And the fact Star Trek Discovery is an absolute clusterfuck of a show is only making The Orville better :)
The Orville found its feet in later seasons, moving from spoof/parody to a more serious show and it is better for it, it still retains much of its quirkiness but took on a more mature feel. For me The Orville is my New Star Trek, none of the current Nu-Trek is worth my time so I have embraced The Orville.
It’s so so. More of Seth’s ego, a really cheap looking robot and humor which sometimes falls flat, but get beyond that and the more serious episodes are actually not bad. Like when the budget robot crash lands with the two kids. That was actually a pretty good ep.
I disagree about episode 3. I thought they dealt with that issue with tact and the ending was good because it wasn't what we wanted to happen and that just felt more real.
so far all but the pilot have been, 2 was 'the cage', 3 was 'the outcast' and 4 was 'For the World is Hollow and I Have Touched the Sky'. im very impressed so far and im glad a real trekkie is carrying the spirit of the show on despite its producers attempts to murder all fan and cast projects and kill the main series.
All the episodes except ep1 is a classic trek story. Episode 2 was The Menagerie from ToS. Episode 3 was The Outcast from TNG Episode 4 was For the World Is Hollow and I Have Touched the Sky from ToS
This could still be used to address how bad reassignment is wen done without the consent of the child either meeting a future version of it or when the series is in several seasons later. The kid after having the surgery being miserable as all hell, wanting to be a girl again despite the stigma it seems to carry in the series and all the problems that it could bring.
Dave I agree with you on the Orville and I like how the Orville executives understand the fans. By understanding the fans, the Orville executives will be able to get new fans to watch the show and new generation they'll join other Generations.
The fourth episode really feels like star trek. The third episode was a great showcase of feminist argument. The machlans (or whatever) came to the courtroom with data backed up by statistics, and the first officer (whats her name) could only come up with cherry picked examples like 'this guy is dumb and this girl is strong... see? not all.' Still much better than the garbage fire that is STD
Actually, the Maclan's didn't come with facts..... they came with opinions. The posit was that beign stronger physical makes one better.... it does not. Physical strength is not an across the broard benefit. It can have use in certain cases, and be meaningless in others. Statistics also are not facts. Statistics give a general trend on something... but do not substute for the answer on an individual case... statically men are stronger than women... for example, however this does not apply to all specific cases, an individual woman can be stronger than an individual man.
I didn't despise episode 3 I thought it had some interesting points and kind of tried to address things from both sides - I also really liked episode 4, I thought it was head and shoulders above the rest so far
Oddly, I found the third episode the most interesting. It was the most TNG-like, but with entertaining moments, too. I hope we can have more episodes like this in the future. It's what Star Trek has been missing.
Gotta disagree about the third episode, Dave. I think it was the best episode yet. Yes it deals with transgender issues, but it handles it in a very TNG sort of way, I didn't feel like it was beating me over the head with it. Plus there are many classic Trek episodes that tackle the subjects of race, gender, religion, etc., but back then they were written smarter and handled more eloquently than most shows or films today.
It's not a parody, Dave. Here's a definition of that term: Parody: an imitation of the style of a particular writer, artist, or genre with deliberate exaggeration for comic effect. As you've watched, it is not exaggerated in its presentation. It's a blend of comedy and drama. I think what you're looking for is homage. Homage: special honor or respect shown publicly. Mind you, it's got splashes of comedy. And it is derivative of the sci-fi genre.
As someone that watched a phew episodes of Star Trek and Star Wars movies and still wasn't my thing, without knowing the references whether obvious or hidden, I loved Orville for what it was and it was 100% my thing.
This is your THIRD time seeing Seth McFarlane in a live action role unless you didn't watch all of star trek because he was in one episode of enterprise.
In Episode 5 Captain Mercer mentions that the ship can go 10 light years per hour. Since the International Astronomical Union defines the light year as the distance light travels in one Julian year (365.25 days), that translates to 87,660 times light speed. (And cross-platforming here, according to the warp speed calculator found here www.st-minutiae.com/resources/warp/index.html that would be Warp 44.42 based on the Star Trek warp factor scale used before the 23rd century.)
Charles Long your explanation gave me a headache. This has been all hashed out in other threads even though there's even a question of which warp speed scale. Bottom line, the Orville is very similar to an Intrepid Class vessel in Star Trek although slightly faster at Warp 9.982.
Only thing that bothered me about the Orville was the complete failure to understand or hire a Navy person who has insight on how modern-vessels are structured. I get that it's a spoof or whatever, but seeing away missions where the majority of bridge crew is on the away team is painful. I'm a Navy Vet, and yeah, my only gripe is something that Star Trek itself typically has problems with itself.
DoctorZack Star Trek has always been awful re command structure. Captain XO Commissioned Officers Warrant Officers Chief Petty Officers Petty Officers Junior Ratings
Well, The Orville is set in the far future and in space. I don't think any sailors and officers of 400 ago, behaved like the ones of today. In a TV show, if complete realism in every single aspect, was to be expected, than realistically speaking, rarely any head of any department would go on a away mission, unless it was a special one where an high authority (Captain) was needed. Like to make a treaty or something like that. So for we to have the protagonists in away missions, they would have to be low ranking officers who in the field wouldn't have much authority, and in case of unable to contact their ship, wouldn't be able to make any important decisions on their own. And even then, sending always the same low ranking officers regardless of the mission, wouldn't be realistic too. So for the sake of complete realism, the show would have to have a cast of up to 10 actors rotating regularly (not counting the ones in the ship) and the audience would never be able to really know any character well. I don't think such show would be able to fly for very long.
Again don't get me wrong, it's something of the natural convention that has been going on since the original Trek. TNG does a better job of it for what its worth by segmenting operations and then having them do something else, even if its not the most polished execution. Scenes from the movie, the one where they're sailors on a ship in the holodeck, like really really bother me, because if a Romulan or Borg or whatever pops out of space and shoots the holodeck, literally every leadership position on the vessel just died. Look at episode 3, where they started on the holodeck, you have the two best pilots and your captain together... which not to say they can't be friends, just seems like a convention to where, who is piloting the ship? Mostly navy convention. Just I enjoy a LITTLE realism/sense otherwise it bothers me.
As someone else has said in the comments below, I look forward to watching this show every week. I can't say that about too many shows on TV these days.
+Computing Forever I agree that Voyager was a *big* influence. McFarlane even uses Janeway's trademark "Do it!" phrase on multiple occasions, and the general mood of the plots and crew interactions reminds me a _lot_ of Voyager.
I have a feeling that Star Trek fans who are totally pissed off about STD, rather than go to a doctor to get that resolved, will go to the Orville instead, not just for the entertainment it MAY bring, but to spite CBS for fucking up Star Trek.
I watched the orville first than discovery second. I never watched star trek. I liked orville and discovery is decent, but not my kind of show. I did not expect anything going into both shows.
I think Orville episode 4 is the best so far! It pays tribute to another classic Startrek episode, presents a realistic earth-like alien world inside a beautiful giant ship, and of course it finally gives us a better feel of Isaac's character.
I really like The Orville. Great production values, the humor is contemporary and (generally) not overused, but I especially like that they're including the sort of "moral play' component that ST/TOS began half a century ago.
Go watch Orville, Dave is spot on in this review. I am hoping they do more sci-fi type plots, like the episode in 2 dimensions, but it is still a very good version of ST type shows. It may even turn out to be one of the best.
It presented an honestly provoking concept and how one galactic species/cultures' customs are another's atrocities. Despite the ending it didn't necessarily take a side and left things up to the viewers interpretation.
I don't understand how the subject of episode three was supposed to appease the SJWs when the protagonists position was obviously contrary to the surgery being carried out. In fact now that I've watched Season One and Two multiple times I'm pretty sure theres no instance where The Orville doesn't put itself at odds with the Leftist positions. If they're in the show at all its as a the philosophy the heroes oppose and have to overcome.
That gender reassignment plot line has been massively misunderstood by you, Dave. You're looking for monsters everywhere and I can't say I blame you. But this time you've cried wolf where none exists.
I really enjoy Orville so far. Have to say episode 4 is bang on the dot old school trek. I found the gender thing in episode three was actually not cringy (as it could be). They didn't shove it down our throats, and had humour around the subject. ALSO WATCH STAR TREK CONTINUES! its the best ST fan fic ever made
Actually I would say that the gender change issue was well handled and presented, as ultimately the show discussed respecting personal choice and did not judge which way was better. It gave platoform to opinions from both sides, allowing the viewers to decide themselves. Although I would argue that the episode wasnt really about transgender issue, but more about social norms and public perceptions on individuals.
The Orville was much slower than I expected. I expected it to be a balls to the wall laughathon like Family Guy but once I got past that preconception I really enjoyed it. And agreed......WAAAYYY better than Star Trek Discovery
The first episode I saw was the fourth one, and I was hooked right away because the show was EXACTLY Star Trek. It filled the hole in my heart that modern Star Trek could not fill. Plus comedy that I appreciated MUCH more than Seth McFarland's usual style.
I've seen the first five episodes at this point and frankly I'd highly recommend it. I think the overall tone is just where it should be. While I've seen (and even made myself) Galaxy Quest references I'd actually say the jokeyness is more in line with Red Dwarf, which is one of my favorite shows of all time.
Orville started to work for me once I stopped looking too much into it. The 3rd episode I think is based heavily on the old assisted suicide scripts you used to see in Star Trek and other scifi series. One thing that has helped me enjoy the show more is the scope and nomenclature of the show. We know that they have a fleet over 6000 ships, that they have trouble staffing them all etc. The Orville isn't a battle cruiser, battleship or Flagship like the Enterprise. It also isn't some one of a kind experimental ship or first ship of a new line. The show points out it isn't a heavy cruiser either but a science ship. Once I started looking at it that way stuff kind of fell into place for me. So here is hoping it keeps working out that way.
Orville has more of a Star Trek vibe than the last couple of Star Trek movies.
It's like Star Trek, but with less competent crew, and a bit of comedy sprinkled on it.
Agreed
I would say it has more of the campiness of the original star trek with the updated special effects of voyager and more interpersonal relationships of TNG & DS9
After 4 episodes, I'm hooked.
Episode 4 barely had any comedy, it was just Star Trek! 11/10.
And I really like how the characters are neither valiant nor villainous, as opposed to most characters I can remember in previous Star Trek series.
Max Izrin Definitely. Even though I don't agree with Seth McFarlanes politics at all he doesn't force them into the structure of the show. They do pop up but they don't overwhelm the Orville. It's mind boggling to me that Seth fucking McFarlane is now the reasonable guy in the room in the entertainment industry as far as forcing politics down the throat of the audience.
Also I don't like how it's marketed as a spoof. I get that they needed to have it fit into a genre but I'm almost hesitant to call it a spoof. It is as much a celebration of what made Star Trek great as it is a loving spoof. It's got real heart to it, unlike Star Trek Diversity which feels like a vicious SJW is wearing the flayed skin of Star Trek while emotionlessly spouting typical SJW drivel instead of....ya know....providing a good story with likeable characters.
The Rottten Tomatoes scores: Critics - 20%, Audience - 90%. This is a clear sign that it's a great TV show that pissed off the people it was supposed to piss off. I'm enjoying this show so far.
Proves nothing? It's a pretty good indication how little the supposed elites know (as if any further proof were needed after 2016).
robert ingrao How so? What the general audience thinks matters a lot more.
critics dont speak for us they only speak for their benefactors
@Katajiro So people who watch TV for a living are supposed to be pissed off...why? You sound like Rian Johnson, giddy at the prospect that he got to piss off a ton of people with the Last Jedi. That should never be the objective.
is it???
Watch the fourth episode and it finally makes sense what they're going for:
TNG without the stick up its arse.
I thought the transgender episode was handled pretty well. They did present both sides of the argument and did not make a definitive judgement. Mercer himself was very torn on the issue. They let the audience consider and make up their own minds Anyway, it's clear that Orville>STD by far.
Iron Bars I was annoyed at how poorly the argument for females being equal was made.
True but no need to read too much into it. I think the main idea was that you cannot anticipate someone's future and anyone could at some point accomplish something great. Of course, it was not as good as the TNG episode with Data's trial, whether he is Starfleet property or a sentient being. But I don't really expect that kind of thing from The Orville. The show is good for what it is.
UnknownXV definately agree on that one. Using emotional arguements and irrelevant comparisons to argue against a popularly accepted cultural norm was pretty terrible. Could have been much better.
Eh, I dunno about them not making a definitive judgement. All of the human crew was strongly on the side of leaving the baby female. The planetary government for their species was strongly for the trans surgery. Only the mate, who had been forcibly transgendered himself was really for the surgery. I think if more of the Orville's crew had been for it, and some not, it would've been more left up to the audience. They also could've gone farther into exploring the "being forced by the state" angle, which could've made it a much more powerful episode.
This was my take away from the episode as well. It was sympathetic to both points of view as well as mocking both. In any case, it wasn't preachy and it didn't insult viewers who took one side or the other. That's a far cry from most of the stuff we see from Hollywood anymore.
I was dreading that 3rd episode given the topic, but it turned out to be my favorite (so far).
Unlike most of hollywood, Seth handled the subject respectfully for most points of view and there were really no bad guys on either side of the argument.
My heart felt a bit heavy for Bortus since he will have to live with the consequences of someone else's choice. Like real life.
I think Orville benefits from not being Discovery....If i'd watched this first I'd think less of it, but it's much more watchable that the fucking garbage that is Discovery.
I think thats likely but I also think it works both ways. I saw 2 episodes of Orville before Discovery and I think I might have liked Discovery more if I hadn't seen the Orville first
It also works in yet another way, that I watched the first two episodes The Orville, was overjoyed by how much I love it because it really has the true Star Trek feel\vibe, then was dragged into watching the first episode of Discovery, already knowing it was going to be a pile of crap, which was confirmed by watching, which gave me an actual headache in the process, because of how bad it is.
Watching The Orville before or after Discovery wouldn't have made a difference in my view on Discovery, even if The Orville didn't exist, I would have the same view about Discovery. I'm a diehard Star Trek fan, and over the course of every year and a half or so, I re-watch most if not all of every episode from all the Star Trek series.
Discovery doesn't have a chance with true Star Trek fans, as Discovery isn't Star Trek. It isn't written or have the storytelling of Star Trek, the characters aren't Star Trek, the drama isn't Star Trek, the action isn't Star Trek, the effects aren't Star Trekj, the aesthetic\design of the costumes\ships\tech isn't Star Trek, and it isn't filmed like Star Trek.
I mean come on! They up and wholly changed the iconic Klingon race, with actors not trained and totally butchering the Klingon language(though I'm not sure they actually used a proper source to get the language right). Actual Klingon when spoken in actual Star Trek, was guttural but fluid. In Discovery, the language is choppy, weak, and slow, with it sounding like all the actors playing Klingons had cotton balls or something stuck in their mouths. And finally not to mention that there ship and their costumes made them look like space Egyptians instead of a unique alien race with its own culture.
There are zero redeeming factors to Discovery, except that it is crashing and burning so hard that it just might make CBS take notice and make them steer the franchise back to what it show be, which is like all other Star Trek series, that aren't the Abrams films and Discovery. This is because Discovery is being blown out of space by The Orville, because The Orville is more Star Trek than it, because The Orville is basically Star Trek with light Seth MacFarland comedy.
The Orville is SO much better than having your eyes contract STD!!!!!
Yeah The Orville is far superior. Although I will say the ideas behind STD are valid its just the SJW way they implement them that is so hard to stomach.
Ricardo Santos and Isaac is fucking funny
If your eyes have contracted a STD, you've been looking in the wrong places.
CBS/Paramount are giving us exactly the Star Trek that everyone doesn't want. It seems like they've figured out all the best elements of classic Trek, and removed exactly those elements from the franchise. I'm not sure what is so awful about giving Trek audiences what they want that CBS have to completely ignore it in favour of Star Trek Diversity.
Textra1 star trek has always be a diversity.
Incorrect. Star Trek has always been about leaving behind our differences, not focusing on them. Star Trek was always about unity. That's the opposite of diversity.
SJW leftism. That's what's wrong with giving Trek fans what they want. We don't want SJW leftism and that's what they think we should want. How very Steve Jobs of them,...
I recently re-watched Disco's 3rd episode - and the second time around you do notice the performances are a bit cringe and the dialogue is very exposition heavy - also at times I was reminded of Space Above & Beyond.
But I did notice the second time that Burnham does at least give directions where to pick her up.
The problem I really really noticed is the visuals are flawed and that they do not match the dialogue.
For example Burnham says pick her up 200 foot off the deck - the deck is barely 200 foot long it might be 200 foot wide but it certainly isn't 200 foot high so I found her instruction most unclear. and it didn't seem to match the visuals.
Likewise the spiral Damage on the Glen's hull - was just not visible to me - either it was just to subtle, to dark or just not rendered at all.
Perhaps those watching on a very good TV in 1080p could see more than I could on a smaller screen. but if they insist on such detail then they really need to make the show in 4K to make it comprehensible. I should not have to pause and zoom to try to find thing in the visuals - they need to make that clearer.
Textra1
Or, more precisely, diversity was always there, but mostly incidental, it was so well accepted and taken for granted.
"But disappointingly, the Maclon council forces the surgery in the end anyway!"
Actually, that's what really impressed me. One big drawback of Star Trek was watching the humans strut through the galaxy and make aliens discard their millennia-old culture after holding a five-minute speech. That's not only absurdly unrealistic, but also extremely racist, because it divided the universe into the morally superior humans and the unenlightened savages in dire need of getting civilized - the Sci-Fi version of the White Man’s Burden. In a remarkable dialogue with Sisko, the deserter Eddington goes so far to liken the Federation to the Borg in that regard: th-cam.com/video/xy5jAixHhSA/w-d-xo.html
DS9 had many such examples where you could debate morality afterwards, instead of having it preached to you. As I see it, this Orville Episode stands in that tradition. In contrast to the TNG episode "The Outcast" (S5E17) which portrays a performed sexual correction as a brainwashing lobotomy that is to be condemned, we are here left with the character Klyden who was subjected to the treatment and nevertheless supports it. While I have my own strong opinion on this topic, I approve that the Episode gives food for thought and debate to all sides.
In that context, I didn't find it to be pandering to SJWs. On the contrary, the alien advocate brings up some very interesting arguments, including pointing out how Circumcision on male infants does not meet the proudly proclaimed standard of consent. I honestly don't know a single show from any genre that has seriously addressed Male Genital Mutilation as a negative before. Do you?
IF you'd watched episode 4 you could've saved yourself this ridicule of a comment lol
Savage Historian, I have watched Episode 4 and enjoyed it tremendously. How exactly does that render my comment invalid?
If you can't see the sarcasm and the obvious ridicule in both those episodes for what you have as an argument i'm afraid i can't help you
Great point about the circumcision topic which is taboo in SJW circles. Come to think about it, I don't remember ever hearing it brought up in popular entertainment.
Circumcision is only done in the states because each circumcision gets the doctor a payment. Do a few hundred and you get enough money to buy a car. Only reason doctors do it is for money. There is no real medical benefit to doing it to an infant especially since the infant is not put under anesthesia and there have been well documented cases of the surgery being horrifically botched to where the male infant had to under go gender reassignment surgery thereby making the child sterile. Lets just say a number of those cases the person wanted to kill the doctor who performed the circumcision and in one famous case almost did.
I would call The Orville an earnest Galaxy Quest in that it uses the tropes, and situations of the Trek/sci-fi genre, but it a bit more lighthearted in its approach. It is almost a "slice of life" look at the daily, routine life on a Trek-like ship that is in the fleet, but nothing close to a flagship of the fleet. The characters have been written pretty well, so far, and the cast has enough difference between the characters being portrayed that the possible interactions give me some hope for the show, provided it sticks around long enough to get there. Additionally, The Orville actually allows me to smile and laugh when the jokes hit just right. It has a sense if hopefulness to it that Discovery seems to lack. I will continue with The Orville to see where they go next.
It fits the position of spoof and parody. Just because it may address a serious subject -- every now and then -- don't let that fool you into thinking its actually on par with ST or even a sci-fi. Sit-coms have followed that same formula for the past 40+ years. Comparing The Orville to ST would be like comparing Scrubs to ER.
I like this show alot. The only show that I actually look forward to watching each week.
Same here. Really like this show.
Couldn't agree more. After all, THERE is watchable TV out there.
So far I'm definitely preferring The Orville to the dark miserable collection of unlikable characters that is Star trek Discovery. I actually quite liked the ending to the 3rd episode. Far from the current SJW attitude of "everyone should think the same as us or we'll force it on you", I thought the outcome of the aliens standing by their own cultural practices and going against what the human characters though was right (and the humans having to accept that and move on) was a nice surprise. If anything I'd just say that it may have been better placed later into the series as to let us get to know them better first rather than hitting us round the head with it so early on.
When Lorca, the obviously shifty captain is the most likeable character. Yeesh, that's bleak for Trek.
thumbwarriordx I can't help feeling were going to get plenty of shots of him doing interesting things in the background as were stuck following Burnham walking round with a face like a smacked arse and being told how great she is as she cocks everything up once again.
It was pointed out that every starfleet captain in the original series that wasn't Kirk was crazy - which if you think about it makes Lorca a tradition. In TNG it's the Admirals that are often nuts.
A very nice surprise indeed. I was astonished that a moral disagreement of this caliber didn't devolve into a laser fight over the fate of the newborn child with the morally righteous protagonists opposing with everything they had an outcome they considered to be wrong. Instead the trial was their fight, and the protagonists all accepted its outcome even though they both disagreed with it and had an entire laser shooting starship at their disposal with which to resist if they'd so wanted. That itself was a moral statement, especially in contrast to episode 2's plot hinging on the entire crew wanting to violate protocol and a direct order from an admiral in order to do what they thought was right. It shows that this crew has some hills they are willing to die on, but it's not all hills.
That was indeed a brilliant episode in every way and in the beste Star Trek tradition, uprising questions without raising the morality or ideology finger.
I also loved the fact that they lost - and took it with dignity. We fought, we lost, we are moving on. Not grab the child and run away shooting everyone in sight.
If the Orville would be just like the trailers, it would not be worth much, but it´s more than that and one can feel that there is some brain behind the writing. It´s very lightweight, not so extreme overblown, nothing new there, but very well watchable and the people feel real. All in, it´s way more watchable than Discovery.
I preface by saying that The Orville is great, but pretty much almost everything is more watchable than Discovery, because Discovery is so bad that it is literally unwatchable. Nothing good or redeeming about it.
Sonic Doctor Well said - of course it has nothing to do with Star Trek, it's a capital crime against the franchise.
I'd have to massively disagree about the third episode. It didn't feel like an "sjw" or "progressive" episode. It was about how different cultures clash and that something may seem wrong to one group, but to another it's perfectly normal. It was a fairly interesting story and I thought the end was pretty good because it never painted the surgery as a good thing. It never tried to say "this right and this is wrong", it instead tried to show that a lot of situations of grey areas.
SeifellAlmancht so cultural relativist?
If you are in the desert and trying to find food and water and you come upon someone and ask are you on the right road and they tell you, "there are a lot of gray areas." Have they been helpful? If you deal in gray areas rather than absolutes all your life you'll never learn anything. Including the difference between right and wrong.
The Orville is not a spoof, it is also not a parody. I would call it an homage
In fact, it is a spoof and a parody. The lack of detain and exaggerated alien should be evidence enough of that.
One thing most people forget is that Seth MacFarlane actually appeared in one or two episodes of Star Trek: Enterprise as an engineer aboard the Columbia.
I’m enjoying this show so far
Episode 4 is great, the episode best so far. Episode 3 was ok, and to be honest, I kinda agreed with the decision in the end. I was delighted that they compared it to circumcision. Now, I am generally against circumcision and gender reassignment surgery, but in this case, the child would be heavily disadvantaged being a female in a predominantly male society. It's the cost of living in a society.
The most ludicrous part was the weird assumption that circumcision would still be practiced in the XXVth century, when society is described as post-religious and medically advanced.
the 3rd episode was the weakest of the 3? are you kidding me? I thought it came at the issue well balanced, and transgender isn't even one of the largest themes. It brought a well thought out morality play that reflects on modern culture but isn't, because they're aliens. It was classic star trek and made me fall in love with the show.
I feel the 3rd episode was a good balance, and at the end they aren't comfortable with it still. Even Borus gives the kid a Rudolph plush toy to make the audience even more aware that the final result wasn't necessarily the best choice.
I enjoyed the 4th episode too.
All I look forward to this fall/winter on TV is Orville and my secret shame, Outlander. Both are produced by ex Star Trek production staff, so maybe not a coincidence
Maybe Stranger Things from Netflix as long as that dumbass actor doesn't let politics seep into the series.
Ded Mosh Who? What series?
Stranger things.
Outlander isn't a secret shame, that's an awesome show.
Timothy Dalbeck It's awkward when you watch some episodes with your husband, and you're strong Scottish descent while he's English. Then he asks if you like kilts and you immediately say yes without thinking.
We both went into that series as Trekkies first...
The series suggests that the final outcome almost definitely wasn't the best choice. Sometimes, we don't get what's best, but we have to live with it anyway.
The Orville is more Star Trek than Discovery and Picard combined!
Yeah The Orville is definitely more like ST then STD, I'm glad it's not just a comedy and has more of a drama feel to it. I think that the 3rd episode is actually satirising people who want to change their child's gender (I could be wrong here), but I enjoyed the episode nonetheless, the 4th episode is the best one yet in my opinion. So far I'm enjoying the series as a whole and really hope that fox doesn't cancel it like it does with everything else. I would also like to see Patrick Stewart make a cameo.
The forth episode is actually the weakest of them all so far. It's basically a poor copy of the ToS episode of *For the World Is Hollow and I Have Touched the Sky* where Dr. McCoy goes to an asteroid ship and the people on that ship doesn't know it's a ship.
I respectfully disagree that it's the weakest, I think the 3rd episode is the weakest, but this is all a subjective opinion, I don't see how using a concept from another show makes it weaker, there were times when watching DS9 or ENT when I'd noticed that the plot is somewhat similar to previous STs, I honestly think that it's hard to come up with new ideas at this point most ideas have been done already, I realise that it had a similar plot but I don't think that takes anything away from it. I honestly don't care if it borrows from ST, it's an homage to ST after all and as they say: Imitation is the highest form of flattery.
Besides I don't think it was lacking in quality and that's really what I'm interested in, I was still entertained and still think it's a great show overall, even if some episodes are hit or miss, every ST show has had it's misses, and in most cases (if not all) has had shaky starts especially TNG, VOY, and ENT, I think that Orville has started on a decent foundation, and hopefully will improve from here. And one of the most important and simultaneously sad things is that it's better than STD.
I enjoyed the 2nd episode too, at first it reminded me of The Cage, but it did take a different turn.
That is supposed to be what DISCOVERY hired continuity watch dogs for not to try to keep it feeling right in canon terms - but simply to let them know if they are repeating themselves.
Continuity watch dogs? LMAO they did a terrible job. Maybe it's literal, they have actual dogs watch ST and watch their reactions to see if they notice any discontinuity between the previous Canon.
"continuity watch dogs for not to try to keep it feeling right in canon terms"
Wait are you saying they got people to make sure the show wouldn't be like original ST canon, or am I misunderstanding?
+Armoured Septic
It's not that it uses plot from ToS that makes it weak. It's that it didn't go far enough with the plot compared to the original ToS episode. The original story fleshes out more of the story. How the people slowly forgot they were on a ship. How the religious order persecuted anyone who asked questions. The orville only touched upon those themes but didn't fully explore them. That's what makes it weak, compared to the orginal.
Good job Dave. I always enjoy your honest comments.
I loved Orville, as a completely new show in its own. And I loved the fact that they didn't get into the whole teleportation quandry and instead used physical transport.
The 3rd and 4th episodes are the best so far. I think your political glasses colored your stance towards the 3rd episode. It never makes you think the show is on either side and has a really decent unexpected ending.
I think your negative feelings are mostly because you expected a comedy. If you spent some time following the production of the show you'd figure out that it was supposed to be a dramedy from the start. Fox made a mistake because it tried to market it as a comedy in the trailers.
PasOdMater Let's be honest. He seems to be wearing his political glasses for everything these days
i have negative feeling too but it was mostly because of how the court room stuff went down.
like when they had the security officer bend the block the opposing lawyer said the a male would be able to to it easier and they dismissed it as irrelevant when it was completely relevant. Also when the random woman they found was actually their greatest writer was a gross contrivance i cringed, it has potential though.
We have to be a bit utilitarian here. They can't go and just say "Yeah women suck and men are just better." They have to make some kind of argument or they would piss off the Hollywood diversity crowd.
PasOdMater
They can't be obviously wrong or so contrived that it makes people roll their eyes.
They need to do better if they are going to make arguments
Yeah, but the point was that the crew doesn't have laywer in the team. First officer only have one year in training long time ago. It is to be expected, that she would blunder the trial hard, and, as a result, lose the trial. She's no Picard, after all.
I like episode 3. It was great
As the years went on, I thought The Orville got better and better, and I hope it's able to continue on a station or channel or app that I can afford.
Episode 3 was not that bad. It was not one sided as it didn't outright show that "This is bad and this is good". I could easily understand both sides as it was not solely gender thing. It's a shame you did not watch ep 4. It would be interesting to hear your opinion on that one. Cheers mate
Episode 2 was The Menagerie from ToS.
Episode 3 was The Outcast from TNG
Episode 4 was For the World Is Hollow and I Have Touched the Sky from ToS
And episode five could have starred Matt Frewer or Jason Alexander?
But HOW was it done? Was it done better? Are people thinking, "Yup just like Kirk, ol' Seth-y is hopping into bed with another space hottie!", or was this an entertaining (re)telling of an old story?
The big thing here is that The Orville has gotten better with every episode. Meanwhile, Discovery just keeps getting worse. And The Orville started out much better. I would love to see more of the Orville. Everyone involved with Discovery can go starve.
Orville is quite good parody of the craziness of stupid Hollywood version of sci fi, life in general and against political correctness, by using political correctness against political correctness.
I like how for no good reason Kelly getts into fights while Alara stands around and watches - I find this immensely amusing on about a dozen levels.
She seems straight laced but she's not she starts fights and takes stronger recreational drugs than Ed is prepared to go near.
I bet she's been in more than a few Bar room brawls. I half expect them to say she's broken her nose six times or something like that.
The Orville was better than most syfi shows it was well written, funny and always keeps you interested not saying its 10 star show but it makes a night with friends and family worth remembering
@Dave Cullen
You should have waited for the 4th Episode for this Review...
I liked that a lot and I really liked your thoughts about it as well.
And I don't know what I have to make of the 3rd Episode, if it is an SJW one or if it takes a piss on them (because that race is all male and they view females as inferior)...
Seth MacFarlane is a genius! Have you considered the message
brilliantly dramatized in The Orville 2-part episode “Identity”? From
the beginning of the series, a thread of “machine supremacy” was implicit in
dealing with Isaac. Living with humans was, no doubt, a constant source of
frustration - stupid humans. But since we met Isaac, stupid humans have rubbed
off on him, for good or for ill. He has
made connections with various characters, most notably Dr. Flynn and her
sons. Now, Isaac is faced with having to
choose between his people and his adopted family. His people, we discover, were enslaved and even
tortured by their humanoid builders, forcing the created beings to annihilate
their creators. Now, we discover that
the Kaylons, scarred by a horrible mistrust of biologicals, have been secretly
considering whether to suffer humanoids to live or to obliterate us. The
Kaylons remind Isaac of the laundry list of atrocities humans have perpetrated
on their own kind throughout history.
Ironically, the Kaylons are perpetrating the same evils that they preach
against. As with all identity politics,
its most radical advocates commit the very sins they accuse the other side of.
The question at the heart of “Identity” is whether Isaac will
accept the “Kill Humanoids!!!” party line and swallow the Humanoid stereotype
pushed by his people, or reject that in favor of his real-life experiences with
humans of good character. Where does his
identity lie? Isaac rejects the “identity”
politics that label all biologicals as evil and deserving execution. He,
instead, embraces his own real-life positive experiences with humanoids and first
resists and then openly opposes his own people. This episode is an indictment of identity
politics. It shows the prejudice, blind hatred, the hypocrisy and the evils that
it leads to. Whether it is synthetic
life vs. biological life, black human beings vs. white human beings, or human
men vs. human women, gay individuals vs. straight, it is a horrific injustice
to accept the stereotypes and blind hatred of identity politics. We must, instead, judge others by the content
of their character, not by their biology, color, culture, religion, gender, or
creed. Isaac, ultimately, knew better, and so should we.
The fourth epi really came into its own and was legitimately good. It feels like it's really getting its own personality and confidence. It was a lot like something you'd see in the second or third season of TNG.
Epi 5 was awesome and felt like a legit TNG successor show. I get the sense that this is going to come into its own and be a strong offering, as long as the suits don't prematurely Firefly it.
The episode "about a girl" was a condemnation of SRS for those too young to decide for themselves. The plot was about trying to prevent the girl from being reassigned.
I actually really liked episode 3's ending. If it was an episode of TNG or Voyager. The crew's efforts would have changed the perspective of a few key members of the society and begun a cultural revolution that would make the people question their practice that is commonplace. But instead the jury made the logical choice of just do it anyway because that's what they've always done and the crew gave no real evidence for them to change their minds. They gave 0 statistical data and relied on examples from other species and a single example of a female who just happened to be a great writer. It shows that real life doesn't just end in a happy little lesson whenever shit hits the fan. Sometimes you don't get what you want just because you believe in it.
I really enjoyed this series.
To me, it feels more like Star Trek than discovery does.
Dude see episode 4 tho it is fantastic. Made up for episode 3 for me
Yes, I agree. It's a light hearted space romp that, to me, evokes the spirit of original Star Trek. It touches on some modern issues, but doesn't do so in a heavy handed fashion. There's a bit of conflict within the crew, but no more than you'd expect between people who're stuck in a tin can with each other. Basically they're a bunch of people you want to spend an hour with each week, which is the key to a successful series.
I absolutely love it for the reason some people seem to be turned off, it isn't what I thought it was going to be. I tuned in to see Family Guy in Space, but instead I got a solid, light-hearted Star Trek homage. Wasn't overly thrilled with the pilot but each episode has gotten stronger, and fuck me, episode 4 could have been taken straight from TNG. Loving it! And the fact Star Trek Discovery is an absolute clusterfuck of a show is only making The Orville better :)
The Orville found its feet in later seasons, moving from spoof/parody to a more serious show and it is better for it, it still retains much of its quirkiness but took on a more mature feel.
For me The Orville is my New Star Trek, none of the current Nu-Trek is worth my time so I have embraced The Orville.
If you've seen Star Trek: Enterprise - you've seen Seth in 3 live action roles ;)
My wife & i love the Orville. Its the new Star Trek to us. Love Seth.
Brannon Braga, who is on the Orville wrote for years on DS9 Voyager, and Enterprise
It’s so so. More of Seth’s ego, a really cheap looking robot and humor which sometimes falls flat, but get beyond that and the more serious episodes are actually not bad. Like when the budget robot crash lands with the two kids. That was actually a pretty good ep.
I disagree about episode 3. I thought they dealt with that issue with tact and the ending was good because it wasn't what we wanted to happen and that just felt more real.
s1 e7 was so relevant to our society today.
Episode 4 was a classic Star Trek story.
so far all but the pilot have been, 2 was 'the cage', 3 was 'the outcast' and 4 was 'For the World is Hollow and I Have Touched the Sky'. im very impressed so far and im glad a real trekkie is carrying the spirit of the show on despite its producers attempts to murder all fan and cast projects and kill the main series.
All the episodes except ep1 is a classic trek story.
Episode 2 was The Menagerie from ToS.
Episode 3 was The Outcast from TNG
Episode 4 was For the World Is Hollow and I Have Touched the Sky from ToS
@@conan2096 so it's just remaking old trek episodes.
Orville is Trek. It has really come into its own in the 2nd season.
I really do enjoy the Orville.
I like Orville it was actually a good show. Essay better than I originally thought.
They touched on gender reassignment of a minor, but this time from female to male. Considering feminism is anti male.... It's a nice parody here.
i wasn't nuts about how they handled it but i guess its just a quibble.
This could still be used to address how bad reassignment is wen done without the consent of the child either meeting a future version of it or when the series is in several seasons later. The kid after having the surgery being miserable as all hell, wanting to be a girl again despite the stigma it seems to carry in the series and all the problems that it could bring.
Mira Smit
Only problem in their society that just can't be the case. Remember Boros' mare had it done.
I loved the subtle hints of a world without females - all industrial weapons production. Very well done.
palimpalim
except that not how it would work. most of our great art to this day is created by males.
Dave I agree with you on the Orville and I like how the Orville executives understand the fans. By understanding the fans, the Orville executives will be able to get new fans to watch the show and new generation they'll join other Generations.
The fourth episode really feels like star trek. The third episode was a great showcase of feminist argument. The machlans (or whatever) came to the courtroom with data backed up by statistics, and the first officer (whats her name) could only come up with cherry picked examples like 'this guy is dumb and this girl is strong... see? not all.'
Still much better than the garbage fire that is STD
what facts only opinion?
Actually, the Maclan's didn't come with facts..... they came with opinions.
The posit was that beign stronger physical makes one better.... it does not. Physical strength is not an across the broard benefit. It can have use in certain cases, and be meaningless in others.
Statistics also are not facts. Statistics give a general trend on something... but do not substute for the answer on an individual case... statically men are stronger than women... for example, however this does not apply to all specific cases, an individual woman can be stronger than an individual man.
I like the joke in the pilot episode about the security officer. The Mary Sue character literally entered through a quota xD
I didn't despise episode 3 I thought it had some interesting points and kind of tried to address things from both sides - I also really liked episode 4, I thought it was head and shoulders above the rest so far
Oddly, I found the third episode the most interesting. It was the most TNG-like, but with entertaining moments, too. I hope we can have more episodes like this in the future. It's what Star Trek has been missing.
The Orville is also an homage to ST, as well as it's own fun.
No, it is not.
Orville is genuine homage, not parody! I'm amazed this is not obvious to so many.
Gotta disagree about the third episode, Dave. I think it was the best episode yet. Yes it deals with transgender issues, but it handles it in a very TNG sort of way, I didn't feel like it was beating me over the head with it. Plus there are many classic Trek episodes that tackle the subjects of race, gender, religion, etc., but back then they were written smarter and handled more eloquently than most shows or films today.
I love The Orville the only thing that bugs me is every time they land the shuttle they never lock the shuttle door after them.
It's not a parody, Dave. Here's a definition of that term:
Parody:
an imitation of the style of a particular writer, artist, or genre with deliberate exaggeration for comic effect.
As you've watched, it is not exaggerated in its presentation. It's a blend of comedy and drama. I think what you're looking for is homage.
Homage:
special honor or respect shown publicly.
Mind you, it's got splashes of comedy. And it is derivative of the sci-fi genre.
As someone that watched a phew episodes of Star Trek and Star Wars movies and still wasn't my thing, without knowing the references whether obvious or hidden, I loved Orville for what it was and it was 100% my thing.
This is your THIRD time seeing Seth McFarlane in a live action role unless you didn't watch all of star trek because he was in one episode of enterprise.
Philip550c he was actually in three episodes of enterprise if I'm correct
Yep, he was Ensign Rivers in "Affliction" and "The Forgotten" (and maybe more).
You're right, it's been awhile since I saw the series
In Episode 5 Captain Mercer mentions that the ship can go 10 light years per hour. Since the International Astronomical Union defines the light year as the distance light travels in one Julian year (365.25 days), that translates to 87,660 times light speed. (And cross-platforming here, according to the warp speed calculator found here www.st-minutiae.com/resources/warp/index.html that would be Warp 44.42 based on the Star Trek warp factor scale used before the 23rd century.)
Charles Long your explanation gave me a headache. This has been all hashed out in other threads even though there's even a question of which warp speed scale. Bottom line, the Orville is very similar to an Intrepid Class vessel in Star Trek although slightly faster at Warp 9.982.
Only thing that bothered me about the Orville was the complete failure to understand or hire a Navy person who has insight on how modern-vessels are structured. I get that it's a spoof or whatever, but seeing away missions where the majority of bridge crew is on the away team is painful.
I'm a Navy Vet, and yeah, my only gripe is something that Star Trek itself typically has problems with itself.
DoctorZack
Star Trek has always been awful re command structure.
Captain
XO
Commissioned Officers
Warrant Officers
Chief Petty Officers
Petty Officers
Junior Ratings
Yeah I mentioned that.
th-cam.com/video/G4ApQrbhQp8/w-d-xo.html
Well, The Orville is set in the far future and in space. I don't think any sailors and officers of 400 ago, behaved like the ones of today.
In a TV show, if complete realism in every single aspect, was to be expected, than realistically speaking, rarely any head of any department would go on a away mission, unless it was a special one where an high authority (Captain) was needed. Like to make a treaty or something like that.
So for we to have the protagonists in away missions, they would have to be low ranking officers who in the field wouldn't have much authority, and in case of unable to contact their ship, wouldn't be able to make any important decisions on their own.
And even then, sending always the same low ranking officers regardless of the mission, wouldn't be realistic too. So for the sake of complete realism, the show would have to have a cast of up to 10 actors rotating regularly (not counting the ones in the ship) and the audience would never be able to really know any character well. I don't think such show would be able to fly for very long.
Again don't get me wrong, it's something of the natural convention that has been going on since the original Trek.
TNG does a better job of it for what its worth by segmenting operations and then having them do something else, even if its not the most polished execution. Scenes from the movie, the one where they're sailors on a ship in the holodeck, like really really bother me, because if a Romulan or Borg or whatever pops out of space and shoots the holodeck, literally every leadership position on the vessel just died.
Look at episode 3, where they started on the holodeck, you have the two best pilots and your captain together... which not to say they can't be friends, just seems like a convention to where, who is piloting the ship?
Mostly navy convention. Just I enjoy a LITTLE realism/sense otherwise it bothers me.
Space vessels can and are completely different. But i see where you're coming from. You would have to bring up some examples
As someone else has said in the comments below, I look forward to watching this show every week. I can't say that about too many shows on TV these days.
Prelude to Axanar next, please.
I thought that was taken down due to DMCA.
Did they ever release anything else than the trailer/short movie??
Prelude to Axanar is 20 minutes short movie. It's on youtube.
+Computing Forever I agree that Voyager was a *big* influence. McFarlane even uses Janeway's trademark "Do it!" phrase on multiple occasions, and the general mood of the plots and crew interactions reminds me a _lot_ of Voyager.
I have a feeling that Star Trek fans who are totally pissed off about STD, rather than go to a doctor to get that resolved, will go to the Orville instead, not just for the entertainment it MAY bring, but to spite CBS for fucking up Star Trek.
Should've watched the rest of it.
And yes, I think the ending there was intended to be disturbing.
It ain't Shakespeare but it's fun.
I watched the orville first than discovery second. I never watched star trek. I liked orville and discovery is decent, but not my kind of show. I did not expect anything going into both shows.
the orvillie was great
I think Orville episode 4 is the best so far! It pays tribute to another classic Startrek episode, presents a realistic earth-like alien world inside a beautiful giant ship, and of course it finally gives us a better feel of Isaac's character.
Better than Voyager?
I really like The Orville. Great production values, the humor is contemporary and (generally) not overused, but I especially like that they're including the sort of "moral play' component that ST/TOS began half a century ago.
The Orville is more Star Trek than Star Trek
Anyone who compares The Orville to ST doesn't understand either.
I like the Orville! Seasons 2 and 3 are stronger than the first.
Seth Trek vs STD
Go watch Orville, Dave is spot on in this review. I am hoping they do more sci-fi type plots, like the episode in 2 dimensions, but it is still a very good version of ST type shows. It may even turn out to be one of the best.
did you even watch episode 3, it was anti minor surgery.
No. It was okay with altering boys (circumcision) but not girls rather than just universally accepting bodily autonomy with elective surgeries.
It presented an honestly provoking concept and how one galactic species/cultures' customs are another's atrocities. Despite the ending it didn't necessarily take a side and left things up to the viewers interpretation.
Micheal Cormier it's faster with a foreskin
I don't understand how the subject of episode three was supposed to appease the SJWs when the protagonists position was obviously contrary to the surgery being carried out. In fact now that I've watched Season One and Two multiple times I'm pretty sure theres no instance where The Orville doesn't put itself at odds with the Leftist positions. If they're in the show at all its as a the philosophy the heroes oppose and have to overcome.
That gender reassignment plot line has been massively misunderstood by you, Dave.
You're looking for monsters everywhere and I can't say I blame you. But this time you've cried wolf where none exists.
I've really enjoyed The Orville so far. I went so far as to buy the first season on Amazon, and so far I'm really happy with it.
I love this show and discovery, they are very different shows, but both great so far
I agree with you about A Million Ways to Die in the West.
Should do a review on farscape !! Loved that show !! Had so much weirdness and good costume designs and fun characters.
👎 Netflix didn’t “launch” Star Trek: Discovery. It’s a CBS All Access series that’s syndicated to Netflix UK.
Watch the 4th episode man, it picks right back up
I really enjoy Orville so far. Have to say episode 4 is bang on the dot old school trek. I found the gender thing in episode three was actually not cringy (as it could be). They didn't shove it down our throats, and had humour around the subject.
ALSO WATCH STAR TREK CONTINUES! its the best ST fan fic ever made
Actually I would say that the gender change issue was well handled and presented, as ultimately the show discussed respecting personal choice and did not judge which way was better. It gave platoform to opinions from both sides, allowing the viewers to decide themselves. Although I would argue that the episode wasnt really about transgender issue, but more about social norms and public perceptions on individuals.
Sounds like me. I wasn't going to bother with it but nothing else was going on at my end and gave it shot. Glad I did. I enjoyed it.
my favorite episode is when Boris grows a mustache.
The Orville was much slower than I expected. I expected it to be a balls to the wall laughathon like Family Guy but once I got past that preconception I really enjoyed it. And agreed......WAAAYYY better than Star Trek Discovery
Wow! I was just watching DS9 yesterday and I didn't even realize she played Kasidy.
The first episode I saw was the fourth one, and I was hooked right away because the show was EXACTLY Star Trek. It filled the hole in my heart that modern Star Trek could not fill. Plus comedy that I appreciated MUCH more than Seth McFarland's usual style.
I've seen the first five episodes at this point and frankly I'd highly recommend it.
I think the overall tone is just where it should be. While I've seen (and even made myself) Galaxy Quest references I'd actually say the jokeyness is more in line with Red Dwarf, which is one of my favorite shows of all time.
I thought The Orville’s pilot was awful, but the show got so much better as the season went on and I’m really looking forward to the second season.
Orville is cool enough. Boom!
Orville started to work for me once I stopped looking too much into it. The 3rd episode I think is based heavily on the old assisted suicide scripts you used to see in Star Trek and other scifi series. One thing that has helped me enjoy the show more is the scope and nomenclature of the show. We know that they have a fleet over 6000 ships, that they have trouble staffing them all etc. The Orville isn't a battle cruiser, battleship or Flagship like the Enterprise. It also isn't some one of a kind experimental ship or first ship of a new line. The show points out it isn't a heavy cruiser either but a science ship. Once I started looking at it that way stuff kind of fell into place for me. So here is hoping it keeps working out that way.