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I just finished your new book, it was absolutely incredible. I got the signed copy as well. I can't wait for the third one... I know you're already working on it.
@@ChaseAvior, indeed, Mr. Edward “Winters” Gaunt’s understanding of metaethics is beyond reproach, which explains why he condones the MURDER of poor, innocent humans before they have the opportunity to even see the light of day. 👶 The fact that he repeatedly asserts that “humans are animals”, shows what an abject hypocrite is that MURDEROUS sinner. 😩 Furthermore, it is debatable whether Ed is truly vegan in his outlook, since he recently stated on the national television programme, GBNews, that he believes we ought NOT ban animal agriculture! “I’m not even saying that we should ban meat, dairy and eggs right now”. Mr. Ed Gaunt, So-called “VEGAN” activist. 😐 th-cam.com/video/Sl5GpxLXnuI/w-d-xo.html Go to the 8:15 mark.
Someone show the vegan videos of cows and horses eating small animals. Or deer chewing bones for calcium. I saw a video of a deer eating a snake like a froot rollup.
Watching these videos really makes you understand why otherwise completely reasonable people in past times accepted things like slavery, sexism, and child marriages.
Exactly. If TH-cam existed 200 years ago. The footage we would have of people debating subjects like slavery would be bonkers. Footage like this will be looked at in the same way one day in the future.
Yeah hearing this guy talk is a sad revelation of how humans can justify horrible deeds without batting an eyelid. That's why good laws are important I guess
There are over 4m slaves in Europe in 2024.....many of whom work in plant based agriculture. As for sexism and child marriages, they are as rife today as they ever were.
if im honest i dont think hes married to a lot of the points he was making. i think a lot of it was a quick shield to stop him from feeling guilt and desire to change right there in the moment, and to avoid appearing to back down on his lifestyle. if someone weren't questioning him in a hotseat, he would likely never say he believed these things.
200 years ago: "I choose not to extend empathy to enslaved negroes. Why should I choose to make myself miserable for the sake of someone whose suffering is contributing to my hedonistic pleasure. My cotton farm business is exploding and I see no reason to give that up."
The scariest thing for me is the fact that people like him are everywhere, and we run into them all the time. Except that he at least was transparent and didn't pretend to be better than he actually is.
My question is : because someone eats meat does that mean they’re not compassionate? Look at Steve Irwin , you know he had a passion for animals. He risked his life rescuing dangerous animals.
Ed you literally sound like a philosophy phd who is also good at orating. You took his arguments apart so methodically and beautifully. We are lucky to have you on our side!
Still the human gut evolved to process animal based food with some plants. Being a good debater chosing a weird opponent doesnt change biology. In 5 years most vegans are either quiting or vey ill and or dying. I do not care. Have your superior moral but leave me alone.
I can't listen to this narcissistic and pseudo-intelligent talk anymore. Unfortunately, this guy is not an isolated case. Thank you Ed for your patience.💚🌱
Dude forgets we are only a spec of a dust in a vast Universe.... we are nothing. To think about how as humans we are above anything or anyone is an ego talk. The highest form of human existence is empathy and kindness, period.
I completely agree with what you've said. While people such as you and I recognize this, not many others do. It also really stems, for still a larger majority, how they've been treated as a child. Not many people recognize this but our childhood is the biggest indicator of what and who we grow up to be. Ofcourse, it not for ALL, but still for many.
Tottally Disagree As Sentient Awareness, Beauty is in the "I" of the beholder . And the material size of the universe is totally irrelevant to the "Observer" of the material size There is no "thought" greater than the Thinker of all thoughts. I agree with the empathy though
I've done plenty of outreach where people said stuff like this but I never really felt like they meant it. This guy though... this is one of the coldest and most sociopathic outreach conversations I've ever seen.
These are the catechisms of a Randian "Objectivist". I don't believe for a moment that what we're seeing is who this kid really is. Rand makes young people feel like they can resolve all of their deep issues by pretending to believe in her rhetorically heavy, logically weak philosophy. As opposed to a scared kid in a Randian phase, an actual sociopath doesn't proclaim their selfishness, but usually learns early on to fake whatever views will get them what they want.
I don't think he means it. I think people like this are essentially more logical than most. There's a battle in his mind and this side won him over in order to justify what he does. I think he'll change. I remember my brain cracking the logic. I was so pissed off 😅. I knew I had to do it and went fully vegan instantly 5 years ago. It's just the way my brain works. A lot of people think like he does, but never connect the dots.
This video is an infuriating showcase of sheer narcissism and unchecked privilege. It's a stark, unsettling reflection of the worst facets of human behavior, making it an incredibly tough and frustrating watch. Unreal.
What a load of BS. Vegans apply the same justification: plants are not sentient... or not sentient enough. So it's fine to eat them. Although there's enough evidence that suggests that plants have stress responses and we barely understand how plants communicate in forests via the mycelium and mycorrhizal networks and even transfer nutrients to each other.
"Put a two year old child in a crib with a bunny rabbit and an apple and let me know when the child eats the bunny rabbit and plays with the apple". ~ Gary Yourofosky
@@ACT1ON_JACKSON you dind't get it. This experiment proves it doesn't come from our instincts to see animals as food, to want to kill them with our teeth and eat them raw like actually real omnivores do
Oh my Godddddd I had the same thought as welllll hahahaha like "oh we are the masters here" -annoying noise in the background-. Yes, we're the best at causing chaos, congrats!
The only correct claim by a meat eater who has a reasonable choice and chooses to eat meat is, “I know it’s wrong, I choose to do it anyways, it’s bad for humans, animals and the environment, but I’m selfish and ignorant.” Most people can’t get to that realization before turning away, thank you Ed.
The "I only contribute a tiny amount on a global scale" and "all vegan foods are disgusting" arguments are among those that frustrate me the most. People like this just have their fingers in their ears shouting "la la la I can't hear you!" and think it will solve everything.
I wonder what this meat eater would think about the Philosopher Immanuel Kant's Categorical Imperative- "Act according to the maxim that you would wish all other rational people to follow, as if it were a universal law."-CUNY To act in any other way is to act immorally.
@@yungmentalproblems I work in a warehouse 5/7 days and I lift a few tonnes daily combined. I've been vegan for 10 years and feel fantastic. I'm sorry but your argument is wrong
@@ACT1ON_JACKSON yet the “proper human diet” requires animals to be cut up into small pieces by other people in order for the majority of the population to consume them. Few people can stomach the images of animals being slaughtered and even fewer people can do the killing and slaughtering themselves. Looking at this from first principles… I’d say killing and eating animals is NOT the proper human diet or the majority of people would not mind doing what it takes on their own.
@@ACT1ON_JACKSONvast majority of people… disgusted 🤢 by seeing animals slaughtered… even more people can’t even kill and process the animals themselves 🤮. Approaching this first principles and fundamental truths… do you truly believe eating animals is the proper human diet?
To any other vegans watching this with despair: take heart! I know at least one passionate vegan activist who, before going vegan, thought and felt similarly to this guy.
The saddest thing is that kind innocent defenceless sentient beings are abused and murdered for this person so after consuming their corpses he can flush their remains down his toilet. In short a very frightening individual.
@@lostboy8084 if you really feel sad for plants, stop eating animals, 70% of crops are grown to feed the animals not humans. Plants don't feel pain, they don't have a central nervous system or brain ,they respond to stimuli.
Yes, the saddest thing is the way nature works. It's pure cruelty. A poor defenseless antilope is run down and ripped to shreds by a big cat so after consuming its corpse it just shits its remains in the grass. I agree, nature sucks. Our entire species agrees on that part and for our entire intelligent existence we've been trying to overcome nature and we did succeed in some aspects, but not in this one. Not yet. Veganism is not a scalable solution. It's only somewhat viable for a small portion of financially ok individuals, and even they end up hurting a lot of other beings through their existence.
Also people calling him a narcissist or a sociopath must remember that they are mental conditions over which people have no control. Using the terms as an insult serves only to make you feel better (or probably more likely get you more worked up!). Like all of us he is a product of a lifetime (and previous generations) of nature and nurture that have led him to his current stance. I think most (but not all) people could be convinced to be vegan some day but what it takes to trigger that decision is vastly different in different people. Throwing insults around will in most cases just make the problem worse.
This is so true, at the same time vegans themselves probably face a similar treatment from aggressive non-vegans. So the whole dispute turns into a plain tribalism, with meat-eaters being literal Hitlers and worst disdainful maniacs and vegans being woke brainwashed latent suicides. And thus the circle of mutual hate continues...
I found that the most difficult debates I have are with people who basically say "I know it's wrong but I don't care". How do you argue against that? Ed always has amazing arguments but I feel he also struggled with this one.
There isn't an argument against it really. Compassion will not sway them so it'd come down to matters like feasibility and ease of access - but in reality, it is still much more convenient to not be vegan, and people thrive off instant gratification. People like this are not going to change without ample social pressure.
you cant really argue against that. Like joey does, you have to find contradiction by asking how much they wouldn't care so you can find if they are lying or not and if they are not lying like this person you cant do anything about it.
There's nothing else to argue with that kind of people. My gripe is to bring that up right away instead of coming up with a bunch of excuses and then ending up with "I don't care."
Find contradictions. Most people who say they don't care do have a reaction to the mention of bestiality, so that's where you can start working from, for example.
I would ask whether he believes women should have equal pay to men for the same job and whether they should be entitled to the vote and equivalent rights to a man. I suspect he would say yes of course. Then I would ask whether if he had been born 100 years earlier would he not have held the opposite view given that, as a man then, he would actually incur a net benefit from the status quo. Given though that he had already accepted at the outset that he recognised he was on the wrong side of history on the issue of veganism then it is a moot point to some extent. I assume he wouldn’t advocate or support taking away the rights women have gained in the last 100 years so he would simply acquiesce with the societal norm at any given time. He is evidently an intelligent guy but simply following the crowd is a distinctly unintelligent position. I wonder what his thoughts on that are.
Anyone who says that plant-based burgers taste like crap likely never tried more than 1 (if that). There's an unlimited number of recipes in addition to pre-made patties and, unless someone just hates burgers, everyone can find some they'd love. Also, you don't need to eat burgers, vegan or otherwise, so it's not a deal-breaker to do the right thing.
It annoys me when people say that! Also when they say I hate vegan cheese but have only tried 1 type... you wouldn't eat a bag of monster munch and say you hate all crisps lol
Ironically I actually get a lot more sensory pleasure from my favourite plant based burgers than I ever did from animal based ones. If I was able to convey this to my former self though I suspect that my former self may have taken some convincing. Most meat based burgers are terrible but even the expensive higher quality ones still have so much grease and fatty residue which stay on in the lining of your mouth long after any taste pleasure has gone.
@@robsengahay5614Same. Don't forget the ground up cartilage and gristle, and the reason they need to be cooked so well (and all the recalls!). 🤢 Ethics aside, I also find veggie burgers tastier in every way.
@@natasha6341 💯 Vegan cheeses come in all kinds of flavours and textures, just like cow and goat breast milk ones, and I never liked all of those either. There's something for everyone, they just need to try different kinds.
Definitely…the kind of person that will never do anything to benefit another or humanity on general…he would watch an old lady get bear to death without lifting a finger or calling the police…waste of space
He's just extremely emotionally dishonest and pretending that makes him stand over any criticism lol. I don't think he's sociopathic, just incredibly cynical.
@@rondarkman. spam commenting on videos. You have to have friends and family that you can spend time with. Spending your time trying to argue with strangers online can't be the highlight of your day, I pray that you step outside, get a partner and are happy one day
@@_Bush_Bush_you need to touch grass then eat it, this guy had a long conversation with a vegan that was not necessary, also he just eats meat. And he’s honest, just like you vegans are.
They are the same people who put up "happy animated animal" wallpapers on their kids' room, read them "happy animal children books" and if they happen to visit a farm where the kids get in contact with farm animals, they'll tell them to "be soft with the baby goat"... and then they go home and feast on the corpse and remains of some murdered animal
So many people raise their kids to have this mindset and not only apply it to animals but to other humans as well. It's a big part of what keeps speciesism and racism alive. They're taught from Day 1 that they are the kings of the castle.
most people that have kids are narcissistic and sociopathic. they're willing to play god by creating someone who will inevitably suffer and die in a world already full of need just to be able to have someone with their genes that they can mold and control. breeding is peak selfishness. psycopathy is cultural. most people are psychopathic in a way that is sanctioned by society
this is such a red flag. if he openly demonstrates this much of a lack of empathy for animals, I highly doubt he actually feels empathy towards humans.
what… of course we hold more empathy towards human than animals. you’re not sociopathic for feelimg that way. this is where the socialisation aspect comes in to play.
The thing he did the most was to evade. Each time Ed posed a question proving the senselessness of this guy's answers, he would say that somehow it wasn't his responsibility. The cherry on top was how he projected when he said that people want to pretend to be more moral or ethical than they are. That's him, he is the one who believes that there is no real empathy but mere socializing and image-based responses.
He can only be a paid actor, no one who so clearly knows the damage eating animals does would stick so outright to eating them knowing it harms us as well as those animals.
Yeah, I noticed this too. He wanted to gain the upper hand in the debate and block Ed's advances because maybe this guy had better strategies towards the "win". So disingenuous
surely someone who claims they’re lack of animal harm while engaging in more nuanced consumerism of animal/human harm is more virtue signaling than someone who is able to justify it.
@@pacmanmcgavin7034 because humans are the worst most destructive species on the planet. Attitudes like his are what makes human supremacy and white supremacy so alike. He has been utterly brainwashed into the idea that animals are here for our breeding, exploitation and killing and that they have no value other than what we want them for. History has shown us that people who show themselves to be so at ease with violence toward non-humans will often not stop there.
There is a deeper problem here and this young man illustrates it. We covet the illusion of "sapience" primarily because it allows us to see ourselves as "better" or "more evolved" than other creatures. We are not. Our tendency is to believe that we are "better" because it is encoded in most languages, religions, and cultures. And this is precisely why we need deep change in our languages, cultures, and religions. This will not be an easy task. Thank you Ed for taking a stand against the belief in human superiority. Even deeper is the need to challenge the belief in the illusion of individuality itself. There are more cells in our body containing no human DNA at all than cells with our DNA. We are actually a multitude. Overcoming our illusion of "superiority" will be essential to bring our species into balance with the rest of the natural world. We are all in this together. Good work Ed!
Thank you@@funkymunky. Our language is, primarily, a metaphorical one and most of what we see is an illusion. So you''re right. But most people see evolution as a battle for "dominance" (whatever that means). In fact all of us are a part of an entire global community. I see all evolution as a form of "co-evolution" in which evolution is moving towards balance. That is the only way, I think, that evolution could work. It makes no sense to think of different life forms struggling for survival against other species. It seems more sensible to think of evolution as moving towards balance.
If like you say we are not better than the animals we eat, then why should we not eat them? Lots of animals eat other animals so we should do the same.
presuming he actually believes this nonsense and isn't just trying to justify he's unwillingness to go vegan, he is missing out on a lot of what it means to be human.
Imagine being so detached from empathy and reality that you would go on record saying this shit. Like imagine trying to explain this to ur friends when they see it??? Dangerous person tbh
I find it interesting - he was asked about his opinion, not "what would be your answer to please others/society" - even if he had a "true answer" and a "socialized but not his true answer", why mentioning the second when clearly asked about the first?
@@MsBkene because when you’re publicly asked a question of course you’re going to give an answer that you deem to be more socially accepted… that’s just common sense.
Good for you guys. To stop wrinkles ie aging consume amla powder ad its the most packed fruit with vitamin C. A lady who's 81 looks 40 because of her raw food diet since she was 40.
You can only be above animals via empathy as empathy is the highest of all intelligence. Dominance and force will not make you above animals. This guy is so full of ego and subconscious programmed FEAR.
Techically everyone is selfish becsuse it's objectively impossible to escspe your own self interest. Empathy is more in the Realm of illusion because two individuals can go through the same exact experiance and experiance it completely differently and have different feeling about it. But we can use our selfish interests in righteous ways and I do think empathy can exist somehow. =]
@@RighteousnessWillPrevail Can you provide the objective evidence that no one can "escape self interest," and that empathy is just an part of the realm of illusion ?
@@RighteousnessWillPrevail self love can reach to becoming the energy of love. I know because this has been my path. Unconditional love energy is our natural state of being. Via our self love our well being is most important so we stay away from negative people. People of ego are selfish self centered. Those of heart consciousness are not and I speak from my own experiences.
I watched pretty much all of Ed's debates throughout these years, and only recently I realised something. The amount of people who candidly admitted being "selfish", "uncompassionate" or who wouldn't mind murdering another person or eating human flesh because it'd make them feel good is quite alarming. Now, we have to establish if that's what they feel or if they say it to prove Ed - and veganism - wrong. If this is not the case and they're genuine, perhaps we should start watching our back; when someone invites us for dinner, we might be the dinner.
This is so interesting to watch because this guy's whole hedonistic thesis resembles someone I use to be friends with, and later stopped being friends with precisely because I started getting too concerned about his selfishness. He's smart, he's articulate, his fucked up logic works perfectly well as long as he keeps his personal happiness on the pedestal. Nothing matters as long as he's not directly affected. He assumes everyone secretly thinks like him and doesn't see what's so fucked up about that.
My concern is there is no way to prove him wrong, unless you have a strong argument for objective morality. With his line of reasoning, he is correct in stating that until there is a strong enough social push to end veganism through legislation, he truly has no necessity to stop eating meat. He sets the line at sapience, that’s what he believes separates humans from animals and makes them superior. It’s arbitrary, and a person can say the same with IQ for example in defense of slavery. However without an objective morality we can appeal to, it will always boil down to what is socially acceptable. He is just as justified as Ed is. His main concern is being logically consistent, and he is, even if he looks sociopathic. Destiny has the same exact argument
@@10jonchannel He isn't logically consistent though, there are more holes in his argument than in any movie directed by Michael Bay. Ed points them out consistently through the video. His only argument is "As long as I'm happy, I can do whatever I want." Which, sure is certainly a choice to live your life, but I think many problems are going to be encountered if you truly want to live that way. It honestly reminds me of internet forums from the early 00's, when teenagers would write thoughts and replies to posts as if they had the whole World figured out without ever having properly lived in it. I was certainly one of them at that time. This is honestly worrying to me when I see people like this exist, because in their own minds... they can justify anything.
@@Sccorpy Except, can you prove that his way of living and making ethical decisions is any more valid than yours? Unless there is an objective morality, you can’t. You’ll say for example “ we should use a utilitarian principle to guide our ethics” and I can say “I believe we should use a deontological one”. A utilitarian one would say “killing animals for food is bad for the climate and our overall well being, therefore it’s bad” for example A deontological one would be “Killing is bad” no matter the causes or circumstances However you can’t say that it is objectively so, because some actions or beliefs might harm one person, but not another. So it ultimately comes down to our socially agreed upon values. Some people believe that their own well being is more important than that of an animal, while others don’t. How can you prove their approach to life and view of self is wrong? You can try, but without the majority of society agreeing with you and proposing a law to stop it, you’ll never change his mind or all meat eaters. Your beliefs are just as valid as his. He is not contradicting himself, he is being logically consistent. Ed didn’t point out any logical inconsistencies, he just took his beliefs to the extreme to find out if he actually holds them. He never contradicted himself, even in the case of kicking a dog. Ed just wanted to point out how sociopathic he sounds, which he does. He’ll catch most people because they love dogs, cats and other animals but don’t apply the same considerations to cows, chickens, and pigs. He does, therefore there is nothing wrong with his argument logically
@@Sccorpy in my opinion this is the first debate where I’ve seen Ed “lose”. He made 0 ground and failed to show how his perspective was any better, other than appealing to emotion
@@10jonchannel Ed won the moment the lad admitted at the start that its better to be vegan. He said so himself. He just went full edge lord with the 'hedonistic' mantra. I see comments saying 'we all think like that' but its evident from the hundreds of other comments that people don't. He has a right to live that lifestyle, I just feel it would be a very lonely and friendless one as I have known people like him, and those people don't have many friends or people they can talk to or confide in. Their actions burned too many bridges. Not saying that will be him, just my own anecdotal experience.
So you don't value your own pleasure? There are things right now you're doing, I'm sure, that are pleasurable to you, but either hurt others or the environment. I guarantee it.
@@1211-n4d I don't hold my own pleasure as the highest virtue. I am for sure engaging in activities that hurt others. That isn't the issue. Universal resources are finite and by simply existing in this world I am hurting others in some abstract way by using resources they would need to then create. The creation of resources will inevitably lead to the trade of those resources and the opportunity for exploitation goes down the chain. I also don't think that zero suffering for any animal is currently a feasible goal. I don't consume for my own pleasure things that purposefully harm others. I have a phone because my family and my job need to contact me. I care more about their peace of mind and my ability to feed my family. When I fall short and do something that hurts someone else to achieve my own pleasure, I feel disguising. I know intrinsically that if meaning is something worth thinking about, there must be something greater than self to aspire to, or else why grow into anything? We don't crucify or burn witches at the stake anymore because we are growing as a species. If that growth is happening what was the catalyst? Something compels us to sacrifice short term comfort for the chance at pushing forward towards a greater state of being. Everything bad in this world has been created from the lower self (fear, war, hatred, selfishness). Everything good has been birthed from the higher self (art, compassion, science, sacrifice). I live my live in pursuit of higher virtues than my flesh and bones hold.
Often people pretend not to care in order to avoid painting themselves into an inevitable logical corner. They see where logic will go and not caring is the the only way out.
Or resigning before even trying. Hard to watch people who pretend to feel good inside their cynic shell. Who are you to give up on yourself? Is this humankind what you are so proud of?
This man 110% walked away from that table, went back home, and drank the blood of a stray puppy from the skull of an orphan that he killed the night before.
If you encounter meat-eaters like this who agree they 'should' really be vegan, something to ask them is: 'Will you be truly satisfied living a life that doesn't align with your own values?' Asking myself this was the reason I turned vegan.
Core Solution: The own feeling of guilt, shame, fear, sorrow and so will pass away if we face it. If he faces it and is thereby able to act truly good, he reduces suffering within himself and the world.
Well said, I totally agree👏👏 Also add to that the pleasure paradox, whereby those chasing pleasure could never truly be happy. Then add in Egostic (this guy) and you're in trouble. Philosophy tells us that true happiness comes in service to others or a cause bigger than ourselves.(basically exactly what you said) Being in allignment with our own morals, and not swimming up stream against them brings us peace. Happiness can not exist without inner peace. He even admitted: what I'm doing "is wrong", so he's fighting his own morals and is aware of it. "the “most wretched lives are led by humans who have nothing to do but think of their own happiness and scheme for it.” -journal of philosophy : the pardox of hedonism "As long as we are not egoists, then, perhaps we have nothing to worry about" journal of philosophy : the paradox of hedonism
Ironically this guy helps get the point across. I think this guy represents the internal voice people have when trying to rationalize animal exploitation. In the same way that I believe he'll second guess himself while watching the video, others will see this and not be able to keep these internal rationalizations ambiguous and only half thought out. All in all, great video Ed. The most challenging people to talk to are the one's who claim they "just don't care", and you approached it in the best way anyone could.
Hey Ed you're looking great! Thanks for doing such good work. You're a straight up King being willing to confront people in such a peaceful and powerful way. Keep it up
The funny thing is this hedonistic calculus has to take into account the alternatives. So the question isn't 'Does the pleasure you get from eating a burger justify killing the animal for it?'... it's really 'Does the difference in pleasure you get from eating a burger compared to eating a plant based burger, justify killing the animal?'. Because many people can't even tell the difference between meat and meat alternatives, so that pleasure difference is miniscule or non existent in many many cases.
He basically wouldn't care, either way. He clearly enjoys having the 'power' to take a life, and consume it, for his 'pleasure'. Kind of a f-ed up, pathetic way to feel superior, and 'in control'.
@@KK-111 "...Uri Lifshin and Jeff Greenberg have demonstrated that subconsciously reminding people of their mortality causes them to support killing animals, and that killing animals gives people a sense of power and invulnerability."
@@RTS284 Yes- I could see that in insecure, and arrogant people, with no history of self-reflection. For sure. Many of us feel vulnerable, or at a loss, underneath the bravado, at some point in our life- life is unbelievably difficult in so many ways; its natural. However- in my view- the only thing that makes anyone truly pathetic and weak is when their only way to distract themselves from their natural discomfort, is to harm or destroy another living being.
It's impressive how Ed managed to push him into a corner in which he had to either admit veganism is the most moral choice or defend some horrifying sh!t. It's sad how he actually went that second route...
Lets not disown the poor guy for being honest with his understanding of the world, I feel we should be helping these people more so! Every soul has innate empathy, we have to help these huemans turn it back on! Keep up the good work Ed! I'm sure this young man will be doing some self reflection sooner rather than later thanks to yhue!
In my experience - I’ve had so many plant based burgers that taste so much better, AND made my tummy feel better hours after I’ve consumed. This guy!!! 😅
@@janeldamiani3820 it’s a hard argument to sell, you let these creatures who you consider less than you live and forgo the taste of succulent whoppers for beyond meat that tastes bad. If you can’t get the person to care about the cow that made that beef they aren’t gonna change. Truly if the vegan alternatives matched the taste we get from what’s already there it would be easier to be vegan. So many more would be vegan but we aren’t there yet
@@keithmutamba1395 ah yes the pinnacle of meat products, the Burger King Whopper. I'd imagine it'd be hard to go vegan with the taste buds of a 3 year old.
@@samjaybone Burger King is just one example. You can make fun of what I believe tastes good and doesn’t. But while you’d try to make me vegan by caring about beings that are beneath me. You’d have to convince my sense of taste to make the change. And vegan products ain’t there yet.
“The one who plants trees, knowing that they will never sit in their shade, has at least started to understand the meaning of life.” I don't know this guy and I'm not a therapist but people who say they don’t care for future generations, because they will not be there to see/ experience the shit they caused are (in my opinion) people who don’t have real relationships/ family they love and wish well. If you are strong you protect the weak and vulnerable. Animals are totally vulnerable. I hope this guy wasn’t abused in the past, but he seems like a scared, weak man, who wants to feel better about himself at the expense of animals. I’m not judging, I have good intentions but this kind of attitude feels like weakness and fear. Once again I don’t know him but that was just my impression.
"I consume only marginal fraction of the amount of animal products" - but you eat these products from the factory farms. Each product you eat they replace with another one. Multiply by millions of people (each of them eats only the same marginal fraction as you). That is enough profit to support this kind of system of suffering.
@EarthlingEd, thank you so much for hearing that young man out. He has been or is going through a lot, and you were so very patient and compassionate with him, especially at the end of that conversation. You offer such grace to the world… thanks for that! Such a role model! 🌱☮️💟🌱 I hope you and your team had a nice vegan burger that day 🌱🍔🌱
Omg... (violins)....Has 'the young man' been going through more than the animals who have lived immobilized, powerless, lives of torture for his 5 minutes of taste 'pleasure'... There will be no real peace in this world until we stop harming others.
@@KK-111 absolutely 💯- but he doesn’t seem to be in a place to comprehend that fully yet, or else he wouldn’t be the way he is. I dunno, I just feel that with as hard a nut to crack as this person, Ed with his compassion and extreme patience might just be able to spark something, as compared to a (rightfully so) emotionally-charged person just calling him a psycho right away, and letting him walk away even firmer in his original absurd “views.” And if it doesn’t , then at least Ed tried his way.
@@maryhart6475 I hear you.... :/ You are a more enlightened person than I am (for real; not being snarky), because people like this REALLY push my buttons....My mind/emotions immediately go to thinking of the innocent animals who have never committed a crime in their life- have never hurt another- some of the most gentle and trusting beings in the world- and yet- they are victimized and exploited and tortured by completely self-absorbed, and basically mean, people just like this. Honestly, all I feel is great DIS-respect towards them and anger towards them for hurting innocents. It would be a different story entirely if they were simply self-involved, narcissistic, and not actively harming any other living being- (in which case, I would feel neutral... 'you do you'...). but, with people without empathy or soul like this, that is never the case that they don't harm innocents, directly or indirectly.
This is an aggravating conversation. "If it doesn't touch me, it doesn't matter." How selfish can a human possibly get. So I guess this guy just doesn't care about dog fighting, rape, slavery, sex trafficking, and so on. These conversations are too aggravating to listen to.
@@efrahome He referenced Objectivism, which is Rand's hyper individualistic and egoistic philosophy. He's probably read The Fountainhead and thinks he's enlightened, when all it really does is take away one's accountability to live morally and give us carte blanche to be a horrible human being.
He embodies what other non-vegans think, not what they say. If that were not true, a large majority of human society would be vegan. He acknowledges he is morally on the wrong side from the start. For the 95% of people who consume animals and animal products, does it matter that they are repulsed by what happens to the animals? They know they will put that repulsion aside in time for the next meal, or by the next day.
I really want to believe that he's being a contrarian and trying out different philosophical perspectives whilst at university. Unfortunately, I have a horrible feeling that I'm wrong
19:50 this guy is SOOOOO close. He acknowledges that in unveiling the shroud of suffering and pain he causes through his choices and having to feel that despair and guilt in his actions, he can choose 1 of two paths in the fork in the road: 1) ignore all of the information presented to him and continue on with this life as-is, business as usual (a typical human, or even animalistic response), or 2) absolve his guilt and remorse *by making the choice to exclude animal products from his diet and wardrobe and other aspects of his life, alleviating the pressure he individually puts on the system and possibly alleviating the pressure of others by way of converting them too.* He's SO close but can't break his addiction to his desires to see that his taste buds aren't actually worth more than entire lifetimes of individuals.
I choked on my coffee when he said "an objectivist argument". Dont worry Ed. He will turn 20 and either change his mind or he will never procreate. Edit: and it is kind of sad when someone goes "i like living a life that goes against what I understand is righ". But jeez, do I recognize myself in this kid. I changed and I am now vegan since 13 years.
I’m so glad Ed mentioned selfishness at the end. It sounds like this guy could justify anything to himself that improved his life as long as he wouldn’t get punished for it- rape, slavery, etc
To try everything Brilliant has to offer for free for a full 30 days, visit brilliant.org/earthlinged. The first 200 people to sign up through the link will also get 20% off Brilliant's annual premium subscription :)
Get your copy of my new book How to Argue With a Meat Eater (And Win Every Time) here: howtoarguewithameateater.com - thank you so much for your support!
I listened to your new audiobook, Ed!
I just finished your new book, it was absolutely incredible. I got the signed copy as well. I can't wait for the third one... I know you're already working on it.
@@ChaseAvior, indeed, Mr. Edward “Winters” Gaunt’s understanding of metaethics is beyond reproach, which explains why he condones the MURDER of poor, innocent humans before they have the opportunity to even see the light of day. 👶
The fact that he repeatedly asserts that “humans are animals”, shows what an abject hypocrite is that MURDEROUS sinner. 😩
Furthermore, it is debatable whether Ed is truly vegan in his outlook, since he recently stated on the national television programme, GBNews, that he believes we ought NOT ban animal agriculture!
“I’m not even saying that we should ban meat, dairy and eggs right now”.
Mr. Ed Gaunt,
So-called “VEGAN” activist. 😐
th-cam.com/video/Sl5GpxLXnuI/w-d-xo.html
Go to the 8:15 mark.
Someone show the vegan videos of cows and horses eating small animals. Or deer chewing bones for calcium.
I saw a video of a deer eating a snake like a froot rollup.
@@dawnmccarthy1 what does that prove? Lmaooooooo
I'm always amused at the perceived intelligence of 18 year olds in their Ivy League bubbles.
Ayn Rand is a minority view in ivy league universities
Yep mainly average/mediocre students from wealthy/comfortable backgrounds
😂
Frrrrr.
Those who've largely never had to fend for themselves outside of heating up a microwave dinner.
Watching these videos really makes you understand why otherwise completely reasonable people in past times accepted things like slavery, sexism, and child marriages.
👏👏👏👏
Exactly. If TH-cam existed 200 years ago. The footage we would have of people debating subjects like slavery would be bonkers. Footage like this will be looked at in the same way one day in the future.
@@uncoiledfish2561Interesting point, well stated.
Yeah hearing this guy talk is a sad revelation of how humans can justify horrible deeds without batting an eyelid. That's why good laws are important I guess
There are over 4m slaves in Europe in 2024.....many of whom work in plant based agriculture. As for sexism and child marriages, they are as rife today as they ever were.
I definitely wouldn’t feel safe around that person. His thought process is genuinely terrifying.
Psychopath was my thought too.
if im honest i dont think hes married to a lot of the points he was making. i think a lot of it was a quick shield to stop him from feeling guilt and desire to change right there in the moment, and to avoid appearing to back down on his lifestyle. if someone weren't questioning him in a hotseat, he would likely never say he believed these things.
200 years ago: "I choose not to extend empathy to enslaved negroes. Why should I choose to make myself miserable for the sake of someone whose suffering is contributing to my hedonistic pleasure. My cotton farm business is exploding and I see no reason to give that up."
The scariest thing for me is the fact that people like him are everywhere, and we run into them all the time. Except that he at least was transparent and didn't pretend to be better than he actually is.
"Me, me, me, me, me!" - That's all I heard.
"To feel life is meaningless unless "I" can be permanent is like having desperately fallen in love with an inch."
- Alan Watts
you are a fake moralist
I could do the moral thing and not cause harm to others. But whats in it for me?
-this guy, seemingly
animals are not equal to humans@@chlorophyllphile
@amor_universal that is such an amazing quote omg 😭 thank you so much!!
This guy is not only completely devoid of basic compassion, he's also embarrassingly ignorant about animals
Severely ignorant about biological behaviorism 🙄🙄🙄
My question is : because someone eats meat does that mean they’re not compassionate? Look at Steve Irwin , you know he had a passion for animals. He risked his life rescuing dangerous animals.
Ed you literally sound like a philosophy phd who is also good at orating. You took his arguments apart so methodically and beautifully. We are lucky to have you on our side!
Still the human gut evolved to process animal based food with some plants. Being a good debater chosing a weird opponent doesnt change biology. In 5 years most vegans are either quiting or vey ill and or dying. I do not care. Have your superior moral but leave me alone.
I can't listen to this narcissistic and pseudo-intelligent talk anymore. Unfortunately, this guy is not an isolated case. Thank you Ed for your patience.💚🌱
Dude forgets we are only a spec of a dust in a vast Universe.... we are nothing. To think about how as humans we are above anything or anyone is an ego talk. The highest form of human existence is empathy and kindness, period.
great words. I will remember them.
Absolutely ❤
I completely agree with what you've said. While people such as you and I recognize this, not many others do. It also really stems, for still a larger majority, how they've been treated as a child. Not many people recognize this but our childhood is the biggest indicator of what and who we grow up to be. Ofcourse, it not for ALL, but still for many.
Tottally Disagree
As Sentient Awareness, Beauty is in the "I" of the beholder .
And the material size of the universe is totally irrelevant to the "Observer" of the material size
There is no "thought" greater than the Thinker of all thoughts.
I agree with the empathy though
The growth of consciousness is always towards higher magnitudes of selflessness. The mostly highly conscious people are the most selfless.
Wow! The way Ed ended the conversation saying the selfishness concerns him was very powerful.
I thought that was great. A very mature response.
For real
I've done plenty of outreach where people said stuff like this but I never really felt like they meant it. This guy though... this is one of the coldest and most sociopathic outreach conversations I've ever seen.
I love your videos! Getting your insight and advice on talking with sociaopathic people like this would be really great
These are the catechisms of a Randian "Objectivist". I don't believe for a moment that what we're seeing is who this kid really is. Rand makes young people feel like they can resolve all of their deep issues by pretending to believe in her rhetorically heavy, logically weak philosophy.
As opposed to a scared kid in a Randian phase, an actual sociopath doesn't proclaim their selfishness, but usually learns early on to fake whatever views will get them what they want.
He is definitely aware of himself. No make up like a lot of people do
@@dekyor9547 I suspect he his a high-functioning sociopath.
I don't think he means it. I think people like this are essentially more logical than most. There's a battle in his mind and this side won him over in order to justify what he does. I think he'll change. I remember my brain cracking the logic. I was so pissed off 😅. I knew I had to do it and went fully vegan instantly 5 years ago. It's just the way my brain works. A lot of people think like he does, but never connect the dots.
This video is an infuriating showcase of sheer narcissism and unchecked privilege. It's a stark, unsettling reflection of the worst facets of human behavior, making it an incredibly tough and frustrating watch. Unreal.
Yup this guy sucks
the privilige of being human yes, enjoy it while there are no more dangerous predators its nature baby
I would have have not been able to keep my cool talking to this guy. I could barely stand watching through youtube.
hes vile what a waste of space he is
It's an issue of nihilism and it's a plague however it manifests
You know who also put their pleasure above suffering? Rapists and serial killers...
I mean you can put your own pleasure and convenience above that of animals without condoning rapists and serial killers
One more "he is Hitler" argument ffs...
All the mental gymnastics just because the baby doesn't want to eat his vegetables.
imagine what his gut is like
He eats his veggies and meat he gets the best of both
@@markwilson2421Yet he looks more skinny and pasty than Ed.
@@markwilson2421🤡
What a load of BS. Vegans apply the same justification: plants are not sentient... or not sentient enough. So it's fine to eat them. Although there's enough evidence that suggests that plants have stress responses and we barely understand how plants communicate in forests via the mycelium and mycorrhizal networks and even transfer nutrients to each other.
"Put a two year old child in a crib with a bunny rabbit and an apple and let me know when the child eats the bunny rabbit and plays with the apple". ~ Gary Yourofosky
Do the same experiment with a steak and a piece of broccoli and see which one he eats first 😂
@@ACT1ON_JACKSON you dind't get it. This experiment proves it doesn't come from our instincts to see animals as food, to want to kill them with our teeth and eat them raw like actually real omnivores do
@ACT1ON_JACKSON It would probably have similar results to human meat and broccoli.
@@ACT1ON_JACKSONthey would eat neither, humans are frugivores
@@natesilvers2166
Bahahahah
I love how the noisy thing drove past as he talked about how he owns the world - universe was telling him to shut up
Or to ponder a little bit more 😅🤗🤭
Oh my Godddddd I had the same thought as welllll hahahaha like "oh we are the masters here" -annoying noise in the background-. Yes, we're the best at causing chaos, congrats!
I don’t know how you stay so calm, Ed. Your patience is unbelievable.
The only correct claim by a meat eater who has a reasonable choice and chooses to eat meat is, “I know it’s wrong, I choose to do it anyways, it’s bad for humans, animals and the environment, but I’m selfish and ignorant.” Most people can’t get to that realization before turning away, thank you Ed.
Yep, that's exactly what he did.
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8881926/
Vegans don’t give a shit about the farmers who make their food
Why do all of these meat eaters ALWAYS end up saying, "At the end of the day..."
It optimises apathy, doesnt it
It's like, it is what it is. It's a way of speaking without saying anything.
Exactly. Every time. Simply put: the realization of losing/failure hurts, and that’s how they try to redeem themselves… at the end of the day… 🤦🏻♂️
Apathy...very good, Bugsy.@@bugsthompson
thought terminating cliches
It's proven every time: intelligence doesn't equate to wisdom.
That part!!!! 👏🏼
He probably left the interview thinking he’d been very coherent and logical, and giving himself a pat on the back.
He was, stupid.
The "I only contribute a tiny amount on a global scale" and "all vegan foods are disgusting" arguments are among those that frustrate me the most.
People like this just have their fingers in their ears shouting "la la la I can't hear you!" and think it will solve everything.
No, he knows it, he just doesn’t care, which is even worse
I wonder what this meat eater would think about the Philosopher Immanuel Kant's Categorical Imperative- "Act according to the maxim that you would wish all other rational people to follow, as if it were a universal law."-CUNY
To act in any other way is to act immorally.
Well, he could hear more if he removed his head from his stinky tunnel.
You try working construction site every day and not eat meat
@@yungmentalproblems I work in a warehouse 5/7 days and I lift a few tonnes daily combined. I've been vegan for 10 years and feel fantastic. I'm sorry but your argument is wrong
I’m tired of sharing the planet with people that know they are doing something wrong but yet make excuses to continue to do so.
Eating meat isn't wrong. It's the proper human diet. Cope harder.
@@ACT1ON_JACKSON yet the “proper human diet” requires animals to be cut up into small pieces by other people in order for the majority of the population to consume them. Few people can stomach the images of animals being slaughtered and even fewer people can do the killing and slaughtering themselves. Looking at this from first principles… I’d say killing and eating animals is NOT the proper human diet or the majority of people would not mind doing what it takes on their own.
Good luck with that..
@@ACT1ON_JACKSONvast majority of people… disgusted 🤢 by seeing animals slaughtered… even more people can’t even kill and process the animals themselves 🤮. Approaching this first principles and fundamental truths… do you truly believe eating animals is the proper human diet?
@@ACT1ON_JACKSONdo only prepubescent simpletons use the word cope? Or do other types of fools use it as well?
To any other vegans watching this with despair: take heart! I know at least one passionate vegan activist who, before going vegan, thought and felt similarly to this guy.
The saddest thing is that kind innocent defenceless sentient beings are abused and murdered for this person so after consuming their corpses he can flush their remains down his toilet.
In short a very frightening individual.
Thankfully his dating pool has massively reduced due to this video. Ugly on the outside and (fare more importantly) on the inside.
The sad thing that those innocent defenseless plants can be killed 😢 just to end as your 💩.
@@lostboy8084 if you really feel sad for plants, stop eating animals, 70% of crops are grown to feed the animals not humans.
Plants don't feel pain, they don't have a central nervous system or brain ,they respond to stimuli.
@@lostboy8084 being vegan reduces plant suffering too because youre not eating animals that are being fed plants
Yes, the saddest thing is the way nature works. It's pure cruelty. A poor defenseless antilope is run down and ripped to shreds by a big cat so after consuming its corpse it just shits its remains in the grass. I agree, nature sucks. Our entire species agrees on that part and for our entire intelligent existence we've been trying to overcome nature and we did succeed in some aspects, but not in this one. Not yet. Veganism is not a scalable solution. It's only somewhat viable for a small portion of financially ok individuals, and even they end up hurting a lot of other beings through their existence.
Also people calling him a narcissist or a sociopath must remember that they are mental conditions over which people have no control. Using the terms as an insult serves only to make you feel better (or probably more likely get you more worked up!). Like all of us he is a product of a lifetime (and previous generations) of nature and nurture that have led him to his current stance. I think most (but not all) people could be convinced to be vegan some day but what it takes to trigger that decision is vastly different in different people. Throwing insults around will in most cases just make the problem worse.
This is so true, at the same time vegans themselves probably face a similar treatment from aggressive non-vegans. So the whole dispute turns into a plain tribalism, with meat-eaters being literal Hitlers and worst disdainful maniacs and vegans being woke brainwashed latent suicides. And thus the circle of mutual hate continues...
I found that the most difficult debates I have are with people who basically say "I know it's wrong but I don't care". How do you argue against that? Ed always has amazing arguments but I feel he also struggled with this one.
There isn't an argument against it really. Compassion will not sway them so it'd come down to matters like feasibility and ease of access - but in reality, it is still much more convenient to not be vegan, and people thrive off instant gratification. People like this are not going to change without ample social pressure.
you cant really argue against that. Like joey does, you have to find contradiction by asking how much they wouldn't care so you can find if they are lying or not and if they are not lying like this person you cant do anything about it.
There's nothing else to argue with that kind of people. My gripe is to bring that up right away instead of coming up with a bunch of excuses and then ending up with "I don't care."
Find contradictions. Most people who say they don't care do have a reaction to the mention of bestiality, so that's where you can start working from, for example.
I would ask whether he believes women should have equal pay to men for the same job and whether they should be entitled to the vote and equivalent rights to a man. I suspect he would say yes of course.
Then I would ask whether if he had been born 100 years earlier would he not have held the opposite view given that, as a man then, he would actually incur a net benefit from the status quo.
Given though that he had already accepted at the outset that he recognised he was on the wrong side of history on the issue of veganism then it is a moot point to some extent.
I assume he wouldn’t advocate or support taking away the rights women have gained in the last 100 years so he would simply acquiesce with the societal norm at any given time. He is evidently an intelligent guy but simply following the crowd is a distinctly unintelligent position. I wonder what his thoughts on that are.
Anyone who says that plant-based burgers taste like crap likely never tried more than 1 (if that). There's an unlimited number of recipes in addition to pre-made patties and, unless someone just hates burgers, everyone can find some they'd love. Also, you don't need to eat burgers, vegan or otherwise, so it's not a deal-breaker to do the right thing.
It annoys me when people say that! Also when they say I hate vegan cheese but have only tried 1 type... you wouldn't eat a bag of monster munch and say you hate all crisps lol
Ironically I actually get a lot more sensory pleasure from my favourite plant based burgers than I ever did from animal based ones. If I was able to convey this to my former self though I suspect that my former self may have taken some convincing.
Most meat based burgers are terrible but even the expensive higher quality ones still have so much grease and fatty residue which stay on in the lining of your mouth long after any taste pleasure has gone.
True. I haven't had a vegan burger patty I didn't like. And I've had quite a variety of them. 😀
@@robsengahay5614Same. Don't forget the ground up cartilage and gristle, and the reason they need to be cooked so well (and all the recalls!). 🤢 Ethics aside, I also find veggie burgers tastier in every way.
@@natasha6341 💯 Vegan cheeses come in all kinds of flavours and textures, just like cow and goat breast milk ones, and I never liked all of those either. There's something for everyone, they just need to try different kinds.
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you! Simple Golden rule that also includes our animal friends. Thank you Ed 😊🙏👏✌️♥️♥️♥️
Also just from that first clip alone the guy seems like a sociopath
Definitely…the kind of person that will never do anything to benefit another or humanity on general…he would watch an old lady get bear to death without lifting a finger or calling the police…waste of space
Doesn't get much better watching the rest of it.
He's just extremely emotionally dishonest and pretending that makes him stand over any criticism lol. I don't think he's sociopathic, just incredibly cynical.
@@Shroedinger73 And what would you do in that situation instead? Risk your life to save a stranger?
"...without lifting a finger or CALLING THE POLICE..."@@sushmitbanerjee1660
This guy must be fun at parties.
In all seriousness, he is genuinely terrifying.
Cope vegan 😂😂
@@rondarkman. spam commenting on videos. You have to have friends and family that you can spend time with. Spending your time trying to argue with strangers online can't be the highlight of your day, I pray that you step outside, get a partner and are happy one day
@bushbush7484
A lot of assumptions there bud lol 😆 😂 try again
@@_Bush_Bush_you need to touch grass then eat it, this guy had a long conversation with a vegan that was not necessary, also he just eats meat. And he’s honest, just like you vegans are.
@@rondarkman."Cope vegan" says the projecting meat eater who's made 100+ comments on this channel alone
It’s scary that people like this then go on to have kids and raise them with that mindset
They are the same people who put up "happy animated animal" wallpapers on their kids' room, read them "happy animal children books" and if they happen to visit a farm where the kids get in contact with farm animals, they'll tell them to "be soft with the baby goat"... and then they go home and feast on the corpse and remains of some murdered animal
So many people raise their kids to have this mindset and not only apply it to animals but to other humans as well. It's a big part of what keeps speciesism and racism alive. They're taught from Day 1 that they are the kings of the castle.
I'm gonna cling to the belief that no one would wanna marry this psychopath.
most people that have kids are narcissistic and sociopathic. they're willing to play god by creating someone who will inevitably suffer and die in a world already full of need just to be able to have someone with their genes that they can mold and control. breeding is peak selfishness. psycopathy is cultural. most people are psychopathic in a way that is sanctioned by society
i became vegan because i was sick of being an entitled, brain-washed hypocrite.🌱
❤❤❤
Bravo hero 😂😂😂
@@rondarkman. you will be here until the end of your days. 😆i feel kind of bad for you.
@animalsareherewithusnotforus
Nah I'm good true though, why wouldn't i vegans provide the greatest source of comedy
Your comments support this channel. You comment a lot ❤@@rondarkman.
That was a stimulating argument. Blimey, you need some stamina to do what you do, Ed. Keep on doing what you do!
this is such a red flag. if he openly demonstrates this much of a lack of empathy for animals, I highly doubt he actually feels empathy towards humans.
bro literally said that he doesn't care if someone rapes an animal as long as he doesn't need to see it
empathy isnt inherently good. a lot of the evil in the world is perpetuated by empathy
what… of course we hold more empathy towards human than animals. you’re not sociopathic for feelimg that way. this is where the socialisation aspect comes in to play.
14:45 represents this clearly.
@@LuZu_ do you also not care if animals get raped?
“I have grown up….“- No, you have not.
The school psychologist should have a very serious talk with this….
The thing he did the most was to evade. Each time Ed posed a question proving the senselessness of this guy's answers, he would say that somehow it wasn't his responsibility. The cherry on top was how he projected when he said that people want to pretend to be more moral or ethical than they are. That's him, he is the one who believes that there is no real empathy but mere socializing and image-based responses.
🎯🎯🎯🎯🎯🎯🎯
He can only be a paid actor, no one who so clearly knows the damage eating animals does would stick so outright to eating them knowing it harms us as well as those animals.
I think that empathy is a biological product of a social species, however, I don't think that lowers its value
Yeah, I noticed this too. He wanted to gain the upper hand in the debate and block Ed's advances because maybe this guy had better strategies towards the "win". So disingenuous
surely someone who claims they’re lack of animal harm while engaging in more nuanced consumerism of animal/human harm is more virtue signaling than someone who is able to justify it.
The level of human self importance to justify being so casual about death is very worrying.
Why is it worrying?
@@pacmanmcgavin7034 because humans are the worst most destructive species on the planet. Attitudes like his are what makes human supremacy and white supremacy so alike. He has been utterly brainwashed into the idea that animals are here for our breeding, exploitation and killing and that they have no value other than what we want them for.
History has shown us that people who show themselves to be so at ease with violence toward non-humans will often not stop there.
@@pacmanmcgavin7034makes death like a small thing
Mr. Selfish is an excuse machine, and has sociopathic tendencies...
As do you.
@@pacmanmcgavin7034is that an argument?
He has a different moral compass to you. You are no better than anyone else
I am better than the vegan cult.@@markwilson2421
Yes, I am better than the vegans.@@martingarreis
There is a deeper problem here and this young man illustrates it. We covet the illusion of "sapience" primarily because it allows us to see ourselves as "better" or "more evolved" than other creatures. We are not. Our tendency is to believe that we are "better" because it is encoded in most languages, religions, and cultures. And this is precisely why we need deep change in our languages, cultures, and religions. This will not be an easy task.
Thank you Ed for taking a stand against the belief in human superiority. Even deeper is the need to challenge the belief in the illusion of individuality itself. There are more cells in our body containing no human DNA at all than cells with our DNA. We are actually a multitude. Overcoming our illusion of "superiority" will be essential to bring our species into balance with the rest of the natural world. We are all in this together. Good work Ed!
You are absolutely correct, we are just another animal. As you know Chimpanzees eat meat too.
Balance is an illusion as deep as the ones you outline.
Thank you@@funkymunky. Our language is, primarily, a metaphorical one and most of what we see is an illusion. So you''re right. But most people see evolution as a battle for "dominance" (whatever that means). In fact all of us are a part of an entire global community. I see all evolution as a form of "co-evolution" in which evolution is moving towards balance. That is the only way, I think, that evolution could work. It makes no sense to think of different life forms struggling for survival against other species. It seems more sensible to think of evolution as moving towards balance.
If like you say we are not better than the animals we eat, then why should we not eat them? Lots of animals eat other animals so we should do the same.
@@SuperJJParker agreed
presuming he actually believes this nonsense and isn't just trying to justify he's unwillingness to go vegan, he is missing out on a lot of what it means to be human.
Tate Logic.
Imagine being so detached from empathy and reality that you would go on record saying this shit. Like imagine trying to explain this to ur friends when they see it??? Dangerous person tbh
Says a lot when someone says they have their true answer and a 'socialized' answer.
I find it interesting - he was asked about his opinion, not "what would be your answer to please others/society" - even if he had a "true answer" and a "socialized but not his true answer", why mentioning the second when clearly asked about the first?
It's very odd. He shows tendency of mimicking behaviour. Which psychopaths do.
It really doesn’t. Most people have socially acceptable and non-socially acceptable answers and opinions.
@@HA-nj1qt Who do you speak for? What facts do you base this statement on?
@@MsBkene because when you’re publicly asked a question of course you’re going to give an answer that you deem to be more socially accepted… that’s just common sense.
This video will one day be used against this guy in his criminal trial.
I would not leave this man alone with my dog
Or my cat 🐈! 👍
I would not leave any living being with him !
Or a 🐑 sheep, if you see what I mean 😉
Yes 😆
I just watched a man contradict himself for basically 26 minutes
...a boy....
Thanks for sharing this. I am oh-so impressed with how Ed kept his composure and continued to politely point out the flaws in Wells' remarks.
your videos are my favorite since i turned vegan in may 😁!
heyy I also turned vegan in may 🌱🫶🏻
Good for you guys. To stop wrinkles ie aging consume amla powder ad its the most packed fruit with vitamin C. A lady who's 81 looks 40 because of her raw food diet since she was 40.
@@blumenfeld21 oh so cool haha😁!! congrats
too sweet 🤘
aye congrats
25 yikes awarded to that guy.
You can only be above animals via empathy as empathy is the highest of all intelligence. Dominance and force will not make you above animals.
This guy is so full of ego and subconscious programmed FEAR.
Humans ARE animals (mammals).
But it's also a step on the path. I respect people's experience are their own. But just lead by example. As the good vibes always speaks for itself
Techically everyone is selfish becsuse it's objectively impossible to escspe your own self interest. Empathy is more in the Realm of illusion because two individuals can go through the same exact experiance and experiance it completely differently and have different feeling about it.
But we can use our selfish interests in righteous ways and I do think empathy can exist somehow. =]
@@RighteousnessWillPrevail
Can you provide the objective evidence that no one can "escape self interest," and that empathy is just an part of the realm of illusion ?
@@RighteousnessWillPrevail self love can reach to becoming the energy of love. I know because this has been my path. Unconditional love energy is our natural state of being. Via our self love our well being is most important so we stay away from negative people. People of ego are selfish self centered. Those of heart consciousness are not and I speak from my own experiences.
I watched pretty much all of Ed's debates throughout these years, and only recently I realised something. The amount of people who candidly admitted being "selfish", "uncompassionate" or who wouldn't mind murdering another person or eating human flesh because it'd make them feel good is quite alarming. Now, we have to establish if that's what they feel or if they say it to prove Ed - and veganism - wrong. If this is not the case and they're genuine, perhaps we should start watching our back; when someone invites us for dinner, we might be the dinner.
If I'm going to be the dinner then I guess jokes on them as they'll be eating vegan sausage
@@PACKTdotSPACEhahah true! 😂
"when someone invites us for dinner, we might be the dinner." - like "I'm having an old friend for dinner." 😄
@@Frazsier-lx1gr precisely 😬
I have very little trust in humans. Untrustworthy, greedy, selfish, and destructive.
"Nobody is bothering me about this so it's not a problem for me."
This guy seems to have just stocked up on a big order of Meatflake Copium Supply.
You still a cultist? Jesus, dude.
@@pacmanmcgavin7034🤡
😂😂
@@pacmanmcgavin7034there you are 🤡
This is so interesting to watch because this guy's whole hedonistic thesis resembles someone I use to be friends with, and later stopped being friends with precisely because I started getting too concerned about his selfishness.
He's smart, he's articulate, his fucked up logic works perfectly well as long as he keeps his personal happiness on the pedestal. Nothing matters as long as he's not directly affected. He assumes everyone secretly thinks like him and doesn't see what's so fucked up about that.
My concern is there is no way to prove him wrong, unless you have a strong argument for objective morality. With his line of reasoning, he is correct in stating that until there is a strong enough social push to end veganism through legislation, he truly has no necessity to stop eating meat. He sets the line at sapience, that’s what he believes separates humans from animals and makes them superior. It’s arbitrary, and a person can say the same with IQ for example in defense of slavery. However without an objective morality we can appeal to, it will always boil down to what is socially acceptable. He is just as justified as Ed is. His main concern is being logically consistent, and he is, even if he looks sociopathic. Destiny has the same exact argument
@@10jonchannel
He isn't logically consistent though, there are more holes in his argument than in any movie directed by Michael Bay. Ed points them out consistently through the video. His only argument is "As long as I'm happy, I can do whatever I want." Which, sure is certainly a choice to live your life, but I think many problems are going to be encountered if you truly want to live that way.
It honestly reminds me of internet forums from the early 00's, when teenagers would write thoughts and replies to posts as if they had the whole World figured out without ever having properly lived in it. I was certainly one of them at that time.
This is honestly worrying to me when I see people like this exist, because in their own minds... they can justify anything.
@@Sccorpy Except, can you prove that his way of living and making ethical decisions is any more valid than yours? Unless there is an objective morality, you can’t.
You’ll say for example “ we should use a utilitarian principle to guide our ethics” and I can say “I believe we should use a deontological one”.
A utilitarian one would say “killing animals for food is bad for the climate and our overall well being, therefore it’s bad” for example
A deontological one would be “Killing is bad” no matter the causes or circumstances
However you can’t say that it is objectively so, because some actions or beliefs might harm one person, but not another. So it ultimately comes down to our socially agreed upon values. Some people believe that their own well being is more important than that of an animal, while others don’t. How can you prove their approach to life and view of self is wrong? You can try, but without the majority of society agreeing with you and proposing a law to stop it, you’ll never change his mind or all meat eaters. Your beliefs are just as valid as his. He is not contradicting himself, he is being logically consistent.
Ed didn’t point out any logical inconsistencies, he just took his beliefs to the extreme to find out if he actually holds them. He never contradicted himself, even in the case of kicking a dog. Ed just wanted to point out how sociopathic he sounds, which he does. He’ll catch most people because they love dogs, cats and other animals but don’t apply the same considerations to cows, chickens, and pigs. He does, therefore there is nothing wrong with his argument logically
@@Sccorpy in my opinion this is the first debate where I’ve seen Ed “lose”. He made 0 ground and failed to show how his perspective was any better, other than appealing to emotion
@@10jonchannel
Ed won the moment the lad admitted at the start that its better to be vegan. He said so himself.
He just went full edge lord with the 'hedonistic' mantra. I see comments saying 'we all think like that' but its evident from the hundreds of other comments that people don't.
He has a right to live that lifestyle, I just feel it would be a very lonely and friendless one as I have known people like him, and those people don't have many friends or people they can talk to or confide in. Their actions burned too many bridges.
Not saying that will be him, just my own anecdotal experience.
Watching these videos is like watching people admit that they're narcissists/sociopaths
Behold. This is what happens when society places self as a higher power and the pleasure of self as the ultimate achievement.
So you don't value your own pleasure? There are things right now you're doing, I'm sure, that are pleasurable to you, but either hurt others or the environment. I guarantee it.
@@1211-n4d I don't hold my own pleasure as the highest virtue. I am for sure engaging in activities that hurt others. That isn't the issue. Universal resources are finite and by simply existing in this world I am hurting others in some abstract way by using resources they would need to then create. The creation of resources will inevitably lead to the trade of those resources and the opportunity for exploitation goes down the chain. I also don't think that zero suffering for any animal is currently a feasible goal. I don't consume for my own pleasure things that purposefully harm others. I have a phone because my family and my job need to contact me. I care more about their peace of mind and my ability to feed my family. When I fall short and do something that hurts someone else to achieve my own pleasure, I feel disguising. I know intrinsically that if meaning is something worth thinking about, there must be something greater than self to aspire to, or else why grow into anything? We don't crucify or burn witches at the stake anymore because we are growing as a species. If that growth is happening what was the catalyst? Something compels us to sacrifice short term comfort for the chance at pushing forward towards a greater state of being. Everything bad in this world has been created from the lower self (fear, war, hatred, selfishness). Everything good has been birthed from the higher self (art, compassion, science, sacrifice). I live my live in pursuit of higher virtues than my flesh and bones hold.
@@1211-n4d That wouldn't conclude a reason to be as bad as possible. I mean, look at how all the worst world leaders fall after all their pleasures.
Often people pretend not to care in order to avoid painting themselves into an inevitable logical corner. They see where logic will go and not caring is the the only way out.
Anyone who is capable of finding solace in the 'I know I'm bad' appeal is dumb.
Dumb, or evil
Or resigning before even trying. Hard to watch people who pretend to feel good inside their cynic shell. Who are you to give up on yourself? Is this humankind what you are so proud of?
I'm good...and I eat steak.
@@xeno942 Evil makes you dumb. 👹
It's also probably their best argument
How to justify acting like a psychopath because we don’t exist in a vacuum 🥴
He pretends to be intelligent but his arguments are those of a caveman.
This man 110% walked away from that table, went back home, and drank the blood of a stray puppy from the skull of an orphan that he killed the night before.
😂🤣
🤣🤣🤣
This comment wins the thread🤣😂
If you encounter meat-eaters like this who agree they 'should' really be vegan, something to ask them is:
'Will you be truly satisfied living a life that doesn't align with your own values?'
Asking myself this was the reason I turned vegan.
That requires empathy tho. and congrats u have it! But almost no one has that
I don’t think this interviewee realizes how creepy his arguments are #IncelAttitude 25:32 read him to filth, Ed!! 🤣
You did a really great job there!! Well done for staying so strong and calm. It was really inspiring to watch.
How the hell did this guy get into Brown??? He’s gotta be a legacy kid…
Good grades.
So eloquent, I loved how you reached out one last time at the end in an accepting, embracing manor. Hopefully he remembers how kind you were Ed!
you very well ended your discussion, Ed! Thats just perfect roundup, crazy well done!
First 5 seconds of the video: how to spot a psychopath.
Core Solution: The own feeling of guilt, shame, fear, sorrow and so will pass away if we face it. If he faces it and is thereby able to act truly good, he reduces suffering within himself and the world.
Well said, I totally agree👏👏 Also add to that the pleasure paradox, whereby those chasing pleasure could never truly be happy. Then add in Egostic (this guy) and you're in trouble. Philosophy tells us that true happiness comes in service to others or a cause bigger than ourselves.(basically exactly what you said) Being in allignment with our own morals, and not swimming up stream against them brings us peace. Happiness can not exist without inner peace.
He even admitted: what I'm doing "is wrong", so he's fighting his own morals and is aware of it.
"the “most wretched lives are led by humans who have nothing to do but think of their own happiness and scheme
for it.” -journal of philosophy : the pardox of hedonism
"As long as we are not egoists, then, perhaps we have nothing to worry about" journal of philosophy : the paradox of hedonism
Ironically this guy helps get the point across. I think this guy represents the internal voice people have when trying to rationalize animal exploitation. In the same way that I believe he'll second guess himself while watching the video, others will see this and not be able to keep these internal rationalizations ambiguous and only half thought out.
All in all, great video Ed. The most challenging people to talk to are the one's who claim they "just don't care", and you approached it in the best way anyone could.
Wow, such a egoistic and quite honesty stupid narcissist. Great work Ed!
Shame on Brown University
Agreed. Extremists like Ed should not be allowed on campus.
Hey Ed you're looking great! Thanks for doing such good work. You're a straight up King being willing to confront people in such a peaceful and powerful way. Keep it up
The funny thing is this hedonistic calculus has to take into account the alternatives. So the question isn't 'Does the pleasure you get from eating a burger justify killing the animal for it?'... it's really 'Does the difference in pleasure you get from eating a burger compared to eating a plant based burger, justify killing the animal?'. Because many people can't even tell the difference between meat and meat alternatives, so that pleasure difference is miniscule or non existent in many many cases.
He basically wouldn't care, either way. He clearly enjoys having the 'power' to take a life, and consume it, for his 'pleasure'. Kind of a f-ed up, pathetic way to feel superior, and 'in control'.
@@KK-111 "...Uri Lifshin and Jeff Greenberg have demonstrated that subconsciously reminding people of their mortality causes them to support killing animals, and that killing animals gives people a sense of power and invulnerability."
@@RTS284 Yes- I could see that in insecure, and arrogant people, with no history of self-reflection. For sure. Many of us feel vulnerable, or at a loss, underneath the bravado, at some point in our life- life is unbelievably difficult in so many ways; its natural. However- in my view- the only thing that makes anyone truly pathetic and weak is when their only way to distract themselves from their natural discomfort, is to harm or destroy another living being.
This guy has a messed up way of looking at the world and himself. I’m glad he doesn’t get enjoyment from hurting people.
If hurting people was viewed as socially acceptable, he would do it. I hope he doesn't move to -Israel- Palestine, where he can abuse people at will.
Yet.
It's impressive how Ed managed to push him into a corner in which he had to either admit veganism is the most moral choice or defend some horrifying sh!t. It's sad how he actually went that second route...
If I was this guy friend I would be concerned when he says "there's socialized version of myself"
Lets not disown the poor guy for being honest with his understanding of the world, I feel we should be helping these people more so! Every soul has innate empathy, we have to help these huemans turn it back on! Keep up the good work Ed! I'm sure this young man will be doing some self reflection sooner rather than later thanks to yhue!
Selfishness and individualism. So sad.
Classic atheism
@@bobhill4364 Nothing to do with believing in a god or not.
@@bobhill4364are you jesus
I've missed your interactions Ed. Excellent!! This is you at your very best in my humble opinion. 👍🏻
It’s a good day when Ed posts a new video 🤍
In my experience - I’ve had so many plant based burgers that taste so much better, AND made my tummy feel better hours after I’ve consumed. This guy!!! 😅
I’ve had so many that tasted like shit, Burger King is better
Hahahahahahaha@@keithmutamba1395 You're funny! Wishing you all the best!
@@janeldamiani3820 it’s a hard argument to sell, you let these creatures who you consider less than you live and forgo the taste of succulent whoppers for beyond meat that tastes bad.
If you can’t get the person to care about the cow that made that beef they aren’t gonna change.
Truly if the vegan alternatives matched the taste we get from what’s already there it would be easier to be vegan. So many more would be vegan but we aren’t there yet
@@keithmutamba1395 ah yes the pinnacle of meat products, the Burger King Whopper. I'd imagine it'd be hard to go vegan with the taste buds of a 3 year old.
@@samjaybone Burger King is just one example. You can make fun of what I believe tastes good and doesn’t. But while you’d try to make me vegan by caring about beings that are beneath me. You’d have to convince my sense of taste to make the change. And vegan products ain’t there yet.
Wow that ending from Ed was perfect
I wouldn’t be surprised if this guy ends up in the news sadly… Hope he learns empathy and starts seeing a therapist.
Yup. Scary. Very much sociopathic or psychopathic, I don’t even know which one would be correct at this point.
You have the patience of an angel, Ed.
Your closing statement is very powerful. ✌️🫶
He knows he's ignorant and doesn't care. He seeks pleasure for the sake of pleasure. Dude is lost
“The one who plants trees, knowing that they will never sit in their shade, has at least started to understand the meaning of life.” I don't know this guy and I'm not a therapist but people who say they don’t care for future generations, because they will not be there to see/ experience the shit they caused are (in my opinion) people who don’t have real relationships/ family they love and wish well. If you are strong you protect the weak and vulnerable. Animals are totally vulnerable. I hope this guy wasn’t abused in the past, but he seems like a scared, weak man, who wants to feel better about himself at the expense of animals. I’m not judging, I have good intentions but this kind of attitude feels like weakness and fear. Once again I don’t know him but that was just my impression.
"I consume only marginal fraction of the amount of animal products" - but you eat these products from the factory farms. Each product you eat they replace with another one. Multiply by millions of people (each of them eats only the same marginal fraction as you). That is enough profit to support this kind of system of suffering.
Absolutely frightening how many people think like this kid
@EarthlingEd, thank you so much for hearing that young man out. He has been or is going through a lot, and you were so very patient and compassionate with him, especially at the end of that conversation. You offer such grace to the world… thanks for that! Such a role model! 🌱☮️💟🌱 I hope you and your team had a nice vegan burger that day 🌱🍔🌱
Vegan Burgers are not it , eat food that is as close to its natural state as possible processed is slow acting poison.
Omg... (violins)....Has 'the young man' been going through more than the animals who have lived immobilized, powerless, lives of torture for his 5 minutes of taste 'pleasure'... There will be no real peace in this world until we stop harming others.
How do you know he has been going though a lot?
@@KK-111 absolutely 💯- but he doesn’t seem to be in a place to comprehend that fully yet, or else he wouldn’t be the way he is. I dunno, I just feel that with as hard a nut to crack as this person, Ed with his compassion and extreme patience might just be able to spark something, as compared to a (rightfully so) emotionally-charged person just calling him a psycho right away, and letting him walk away even firmer in his original absurd “views.” And if it doesn’t , then at least Ed tried his way.
@@maryhart6475 I hear you.... :/ You are a more enlightened person than I am (for real; not being snarky), because people like this REALLY push my buttons....My mind/emotions immediately go to thinking of the innocent animals who have never committed a crime in their life- have never hurt another- some of the most gentle and trusting beings in the world- and yet- they are victimized and exploited and tortured by completely self-absorbed, and basically mean, people just like this. Honestly, all I feel is great DIS-respect towards them and anger towards them for hurting innocents. It would be a different story entirely if they were simply self-involved, narcissistic, and not actively harming any other living being- (in which case, I would feel neutral... 'you do you'...). but, with people without empathy or soul like this, that is never the case that they don't harm innocents, directly or indirectly.
This is an aggravating conversation. "If it doesn't touch me, it doesn't matter." How selfish can a human possibly get. So I guess this guy just doesn't care about dog fighting, rape, slavery, sex trafficking, and so on. These conversations are too aggravating to listen to.
Ayn Rand has a lot to answer for...
Why you’d say that?
@@efrahome He referenced Objectivism, which is Rand's hyper individualistic and egoistic philosophy. He's probably read The Fountainhead and thinks he's enlightened, when all it really does is take away one's accountability to live morally and give us carte blanche to be a horrible human being.
No one should ever let this guy be a politician. He is a sociopath
He is perfect, he will fit right in.
“Where did you hide the body, the family wants to know” 😳
He embodies what other non-vegans think, not what they say. If that were not true, a large majority of human society would be vegan. He acknowledges he is morally on the wrong side from the start. For the 95% of people who consume animals and animal products, does it matter that they are repulsed by what happens to the animals? They know they will put that repulsion aside in time for the next meal, or by the next day.
I really want to believe that he's being a contrarian and trying out different philosophical perspectives whilst at university. Unfortunately, I have a horrible feeling that I'm wrong
19:50 this guy is SOOOOO close. He acknowledges that in unveiling the shroud of suffering and pain he causes through his choices and having to feel that despair and guilt in his actions, he can choose 1 of two paths in the fork in the road:
1) ignore all of the information presented to him and continue on with this life as-is, business as usual (a typical human, or even animalistic response), or
2) absolve his guilt and remorse *by making the choice to exclude animal products from his diet and wardrobe and other aspects of his life, alleviating the pressure he individually puts on the system and possibly alleviating the pressure of others by way of converting them too.*
He's SO close but can't break his addiction to his desires to see that his taste buds aren't actually worth more than entire lifetimes of individuals.
This is the kind of guy I would have dated in high school and I really hate myself for that.
I choked on my coffee when he said "an objectivist argument".
Dont worry Ed. He will turn 20 and either change his mind or he will never procreate.
Edit: and it is kind of sad when someone goes "i like living a life that goes against what I understand is righ". But jeez, do I recognize myself in this kid. I changed and I am now vegan since 13 years.
I’m so glad Ed mentioned selfishness at the end. It sounds like this guy could justify anything to himself that improved his life as long as he wouldn’t get punished for it- rape, slavery, etc