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I just finished your new book, it was absolutely incredible. I got the signed copy as well. I can't wait for the third one... I know you're already working on it.
@@ChaseAvior, indeed, Mr. Edward “Winters” Gaunt’s understanding of metaethics is beyond reproach, which explains why he condones the MURDER of poor, innocent humans before they have the opportunity to even see the light of day. 👶 The fact that he repeatedly asserts that “humans are animals”, shows what an abject hypocrite is that MURDEROUS sinner. 😩 Furthermore, it is debatable whether Ed is truly vegan in his outlook, since he recently stated on the national television programme, GBNews, that he believes we ought NOT ban animal agriculture! “I’m not even saying that we should ban meat, dairy and eggs right now”. Mr. Ed Gaunt, So-called “VEGAN” activist. 😐 th-cam.com/video/Sl5GpxLXnuI/w-d-xo.html Go to the 8:15 mark.
Someone show the vegan videos of cows and horses eating small animals. Or deer chewing bones for calcium. I saw a video of a deer eating a snake like a froot rollup.
"I think that there's a selfishness there that CONCERNS me." So glad Ed said that sentence and used that word. That was the feeling I felt through the whole video. Concern.
@@ninjaninja9954 Nope. You guess wrong. The selfishness being pointed out is this guy in the video's justification for not caring about what the animals have to suffer and endure. He spoke about how it doesn't benefit HIM to care about the cruelty and abuse animals experience just for him to derive pleasure from the products that they're forced to become. It's an objectively selfish stance to take. That can't be refuted. As for the 98% of people who eat meat in the UK, I think it's actually closer to about 84% of UK that eats meat. But anyway, they're not all branded as selfish. Perhaps misled, uninformed, misinformed, ill informed, detached, unaware, naive, ignorant, arrogant, oblivious...but not necessarily selfish. It comes down to the person. I live in the UK and I ate meat for 30 years. Happily. But I would definitely consider myself to have been many of those options. And yes. Perhaps even selfish. Then I decided too change.
I don't think that's a selfishness... Life is very complicated and sometimes we must make decisions over things that seem immortal in a One dimensional way... We as a living organism must consume over another living being that isn't us whether they be a plants or an animals or in some cases bacteria... And for morality to only be applied to those whose visage of suffering are the ones that we ourselves can relate to seems hypocritical to me... I mean, we kill millions of living being everyday just by existing... And I agree that the meat industry is cruel and unethical as per our visage but there are ways that can be adopted which are also environment friendly... I've seen a project in Japan where rice and ducks were grown collectively and it looked like it served positive for both the plant and the birds without harming the environment... That sort of projects I think everybody should implement... And it is proven that whole food nutrition is very lacking for a human... as the plant is making food and seeds for itself, not for us... and everything in it is not compatible to our body... that's why we are less likely to suffer from size effect by eating meat raw compared to a plant... As plants too don't want us to eat them...
Watching these videos really makes you understand why otherwise completely reasonable people in past times accepted things like slavery, sexism, and child marriages.
Exactly. If TH-cam existed 200 years ago. The footage we would have of people debating subjects like slavery would be bonkers. Footage like this will be looked at in the same way one day in the future.
Yeah hearing this guy talk is a sad revelation of how humans can justify horrible deeds without batting an eyelid. That's why good laws are important I guess
There are over 4m slaves in Europe in 2024.....many of whom work in plant based agriculture. As for sexism and child marriages, they are as rife today as they ever were.
if im honest i dont think hes married to a lot of the points he was making. i think a lot of it was a quick shield to stop him from feeling guilt and desire to change right there in the moment, and to avoid appearing to back down on his lifestyle. if someone weren't questioning him in a hotseat, he would likely never say he believed these things.
200 years ago: "I choose not to extend empathy to enslaved negroes. Why should I choose to make myself miserable for the sake of someone whose suffering is contributing to my hedonistic pleasure. My cotton farm business is exploding and I see no reason to give that up."
The scariest thing for me is the fact that people like him are everywhere, and we run into them all the time. Except that he at least was transparent and didn't pretend to be better than he actually is.
your entire argument is based completely and utterly upon anthropomorphizing. You have no substance, this is why nobody takes you guys seriously. There is no cogent, coherent argument presented from the vegan side. Ever wonder why nobody takes you guys seriously?Because I said so is not an argument
@@_Toffee_Hammer_ True, and sometimes I wonder how many of these people, truly don't care or are using it as a defence for their bad habits. I think most of them aren't as psychopathic as they would like us to think.
Playing Devil's advocate here, judging from this guy's views as he presents them, calling him egotistical/self centered is not really an argument against anything he stands for. He *is* an egoist. It's the foundation of his understanding of morality. This is as if someone argued against a vegan and said "lol you think animals deserve better than to suffer?"
My question is : because someone eats meat does that mean they’re not compassionate? Look at Steve Irwin , you know he had a passion for animals. He risked his life rescuing dangerous animals.
Over two years ago I went vegan overnight after hearing you Ed, say, “Is your taste pleasure greater than an animal’s life?” Thank you!! 🙏🏻 Best thing I’ve ever done! Not a hypocrite anymore! 💥
@@ellensirca9915 You'll be surprised at how many things you are a hypocrite of without knowing. Then that brings up the question, isn't lack of awareness worst than being a hypocrite? Then there's the question, you might not have cared because you never did that in itself is why you didn't act even though you are aware. Then there's the question you WERE aware of these things, but you refuse to care because they had nothing to do with you or they challenge your life of comfort that you didn't want to abandon. Then you're at the behest of are you only acting up to what makes you comfortable and has nothing to do with the care of others? So your inability to sacrifice your comforts is now the worst sin you have committed.
@@jimx45 That was a little confusing but I think we can’t judge ourselves on what we don’t know. I personally strive to educate myself on different topics & not turn a blind eye to the suffering of others. We’re human after all, we’ll make mistakes and we aren’t ‘all-knowing’, but we can choose to listen to our heart & act on what we think is the right thing to do. Now, if we know but we think our comfort is more important than small sacrifices that can save or help others, it reflects which values are most important to us, or maybe other deeper underlying issues. Personally, I strive to live by the value of living authentically with a boundary that ends at if another will be physically harmed in the process. ‘Sin’ is an interesting word, it kind of implies being judged by a higher power & doing the upmost wrong. We all have different thoughts on what’s very bad & whats acceptable behavior. I, along with other vegans (I believe) think that if we can’t watch it, can’t do it, & wouldn’t want it done to us, then at the very least we should not fund it.
Dude forgets we are only a spec of a dust in a vast Universe.... we are nothing. To think about how as humans we are above anything or anyone is an ego talk. The highest form of human existence is empathy and kindness, period.
I completely agree with what you've said. While people such as you and I recognize this, not many others do. It also really stems, for still a larger majority, how they've been treated as a child. Not many people recognize this but our childhood is the biggest indicator of what and who we grow up to be. Ofcourse, it not for ALL, but still for many.
Tottally Disagree As Sentient Awareness, Beauty is in the "I" of the beholder . And the material size of the universe is totally irrelevant to the "Observer" of the material size There is no "thought" greater than the Thinker of all thoughts. I agree with the empathy though
This video is an infuriating showcase of sheer narcissism and unchecked privilege. It's a stark, unsettling reflection of the worst facets of human behavior, making it an incredibly tough and frustrating watch. Unreal.
@@somerandomguy___ Hmm... good point. I feel like it just goes against my nature to be cruel to animals and/or pay for animal cruelty and I think most people fall into that category. I thought animals and animal products tasted delicious, but I cannot justify it and it impacts me negatively mental health-wise to know that I willingly paid for animal harm just for my own tastes. I do like a lot of vegan food too though anyway!
@@lilith7706”Our statistical analysis results indicate that countries with the greater meat intake have greater life expectancy and lower child mortality”. “A study of more than 218,000 adults from over 50 countries around the world suggests that consuming unprocessed meat regularly can reduce the risk of early death and can increase human longevity.” www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8881926/ Mhm.
I've done plenty of outreach where people said stuff like this but I never really felt like they meant it. This guy though... this is one of the coldest and most sociopathic outreach conversations I've ever seen.
These are the catechisms of a Randian "Objectivist". I don't believe for a moment that what we're seeing is who this kid really is. Rand makes young people feel like they can resolve all of their deep issues by pretending to believe in her rhetorically heavy, logically weak philosophy. As opposed to a scared kid in a Randian phase, an actual sociopath doesn't proclaim their selfishness, but usually learns early on to fake whatever views will get them what they want.
I don't think he means it. I think people like this are essentially more logical than most. There's a battle in his mind and this side won him over in order to justify what he does. I think he'll change. I remember my brain cracking the logic. I was so pissed off 😅. I knew I had to do it and went fully vegan instantly 5 years ago. It's just the way my brain works. A lot of people think like he does, but never connect the dots.
Life expectancy is over 80 years in most places around the world and most people consume tons of animal products and processed crap, so it's not optimistic, it's quite realistic.
The kid said 80-100 years he has left. Implying he will live to 100-120. Possible, but unlikely as a baseline, and even moreso due to all the potential cancers and other risks associated with eating meat
There is vast literature on this: not caring about animals' lives and attempting to rationalize cruelty is a symptom of psychological/personality issues. There is "the link" between people who advocate animal suffering and other harmful behaviors and beliefs. The defence of cruelty against animals and humans come from the same place. This is scientific. There seems to be little doubt this is the case here, he himself recognized he does have personality issues. Ed does a brilliant job as an educator, but there is little he could do here. This is really the case for a mental health professional.
Goddamn, the whole comment section is basically gaslighting the guy and putting labels on him for "i don't care" position. I get that you folks really want to distance yourself from that guy and elevate your position, but stuff that you are writing is so entitled
@@IamSoEasy47 By his argument, would that mean he was socialized to be a sociopath? I think Ed tried to point out this contradiction and his response was that most people are as selfish as him but they're also virtue signaling liars whereas he's honest. Yikes. I know these debates can go in a million different directions, but I wish Ed had pushed back against the anthropocentric views underpinning his supremacist ideology. He said "humans are above any other life form on this planet" and I don't see how reasons he gave for that supremacist view would justify the subjugation of non-human animals.
@@andrewlowndes1790 On the anthropocentrism, I totally agree. Anthropocentrism, this idea that because we're more "sapient" or more sentient than other organisms, we're inherently superior is nothing but utter bullshit. For example, without microplancton, there would be no oxygen, and therefore no life on this planet. Or if bees or ants disappeared, if they got extinct, it'd be over for us. On the other hand, if humanity was wiped, in its current state, at least, all other life forms on Earth would thrive. This human superiority argument really annoys me.
I can't listen to this narcissistic and pseudo-intelligent talk anymore. Unfortunately, this guy is not an isolated case. Thank you Ed for your patience.💚🌱
Ed you literally sound like a philosophy phd who is also good at orating. You took his arguments apart so methodically and beautifully. We are lucky to have you on our side!
Still the human gut evolved to process animal based food with some plants. Being a good debater chosing a weird opponent doesnt change biology. In 5 years most vegans are either quiting or vey ill and or dying. I do not care. Have your superior moral but leave me alone.
Oh my Godddddd I had the same thought as welllll hahahaha like "oh we are the masters here" -annoying noise in the background-. Yes, we're the best at causing chaos, congrats!
As someone who went to Brown, these "devil's advocate" type people are everywhere in my classes. So sad to see this lack of empathy among the students.
The thing I find very weird about the hedonism argument that wasn't discussed here is: Why does he assume he can't have a lot of enjoyment on a vegan diet? Has he ever tried? I personally indulge in and enjoy my food greatly, without needing to maximize suffering.
Yes...and to take that a bit further, one can find a more pure pleasure in having compassion. Pleasure is pleasure, and if you decide your mindset is focused on helping rather than hurting, it suddenly becomes guilt free pleasure on all levels. Simply by deciding to walk down the other side of the street. Easy peasy lemon squeezy.
@@allandm tbh for some people like myself it’s awesome they don’t taste exactly the same. Before going vegan, I always tried to mask the taste with as many herbs as possible. Now anything that tastes too much like animal flesh it’s absolutely repulsive to me.
Exactly. I stopped eating processed foods for health reasons a while ago and I still get so much enjoyment out of my meals. Plant foods are delicious and there are so many ways to prepare them, I never get tired of eating this way or feel like I'm missing out on something. Even a quick Google search will show you so many plant-based meals to try.
So impressive how Ed responded when he said animals arent sentient. Instead of just "...of course they are," he literally referred back to how the dude already referred to their sentience
The "I only contribute a tiny amount on a global scale" and "all vegan foods are disgusting" arguments are among those that frustrate me the most. People like this just have their fingers in their ears shouting "la la la I can't hear you!" and think it will solve everything.
I wonder what this meat eater would think about the Philosopher Immanuel Kant's Categorical Imperative- "Act according to the maxim that you would wish all other rational people to follow, as if it were a universal law."-CUNY To act in any other way is to act immorally.
@@yungmentalproblems I work in a warehouse 5/7 days and I lift a few tonnes daily combined. I've been vegan for 10 years and feel fantastic. I'm sorry but your argument is wrong
"Put a two year old child in a crib with a bunny rabbit and an apple and let me know when the child eats the bunny rabbit and plays with the apple". ~ Gary Yourofosky
@@ACT1ON_JACKSON you dind't get it. This experiment proves it doesn't come from our instincts to see animals as food, to want to kill them with our teeth and eat them raw like actually real omnivores do
This is one of Ed's best debates. I've always admired his debating ability, but in the video he really demonstrates why he is the goat. He picks up on every inconsistency in this guy's argument and brings them back 15 minutes later when he makes a contradiction. Identified and acted on every hole in this guy's argument. I also love how he got him to admit he is selfish and narcissistic 😂
Videos like this are great though. This is essentially the average persons logic out loud. Most people hearing this wouldn't be happy about it. Useful conversation. A little messed up too.
The only correct claim by a meat eater who has a reasonable choice and chooses to eat meat is, “I know it’s wrong, I choose to do it anyways, it’s bad for humans, animals and the environment, but I’m selfish and ignorant.” Most people can’t get to that realization before turning away, thank you Ed.
What a load of BS. Vegans apply the same justification: plants are not sentient... or not sentient enough. So it's fine to eat them. Although there's enough evidence that suggests that plants have stress responses and we barely understand how plants communicate in forests via the mycelium and mycorrhizal networks and even transfer nutrients to each other.
Also people calling him a narcissist or a sociopath must remember that they are mental conditions over which people have no control. Using the terms as an insult serves only to make you feel better (or probably more likely get you more worked up!). Like all of us he is a product of a lifetime (and previous generations) of nature and nurture that have led him to his current stance. I think most (but not all) people could be convinced to be vegan some day but what it takes to trigger that decision is vastly different in different people. Throwing insults around will in most cases just make the problem worse.
This is so true, at the same time vegans themselves probably face a similar treatment from aggressive non-vegans. So the whole dispute turns into a plain tribalism, with meat-eaters being literal Hitlers and worst disdainful maniacs and vegans being woke brainwashed latent suicides. And thus the circle of mutual hate continues...
@@ACT1ON_JACKSON yet the “proper human diet” requires animals to be cut up into small pieces by other people in order for the majority of the population to consume them. Few people can stomach the images of animals being slaughtered and even fewer people can do the killing and slaughtering themselves. Looking at this from first principles… I’d say killing and eating animals is NOT the proper human diet or the majority of people would not mind doing what it takes on their own.
@@ACT1ON_JACKSONvast majority of people… disgusted 🤢 by seeing animals slaughtered… even more people can’t even kill and process the animals themselves 🤮. Approaching this first principles and fundamental truths… do you truly believe eating animals is the proper human diet?
To any other vegans watching this with despair: take heart! I know at least one passionate vegan activist who, before going vegan, thought and felt similarly to this guy.
I found that the most difficult debates I have are with people who basically say "I know it's wrong but I don't care". How do you argue against that? Ed always has amazing arguments but I feel he also struggled with this one.
There isn't an argument against it really. Compassion will not sway them so it'd come down to matters like feasibility and ease of access - but in reality, it is still much more convenient to not be vegan, and people thrive off instant gratification. People like this are not going to change without ample social pressure.
you cant really argue against that. Like joey does, you have to find contradiction by asking how much they wouldn't care so you can find if they are lying or not and if they are not lying like this person you cant do anything about it.
There's nothing else to argue with that kind of people. My gripe is to bring that up right away instead of coming up with a bunch of excuses and then ending up with "I don't care."
Find contradictions. Most people who say they don't care do have a reaction to the mention of bestiality, so that's where you can start working from, for example.
I would ask whether he believes women should have equal pay to men for the same job and whether they should be entitled to the vote and equivalent rights to a man. I suspect he would say yes of course. Then I would ask whether if he had been born 100 years earlier would he not have held the opposite view given that, as a man then, he would actually incur a net benefit from the status quo. Given though that he had already accepted at the outset that he recognised he was on the wrong side of history on the issue of veganism then it is a moot point to some extent. I assume he wouldn’t advocate or support taking away the rights women have gained in the last 100 years so he would simply acquiesce with the societal norm at any given time. He is evidently an intelligent guy but simply following the crowd is a distinctly unintelligent position. I wonder what his thoughts on that are.
I've seen enough of these to know that when someone uses the phrase "at the end of the day" they're about to say something crazy to uphold the status quo on eating animals
I’m actually glad he was just honest because we got to hear a discussion which we usually don’t: “I don’t care, I’m selfish & animals are dumb.” Ed did well at keeping the conversation on what matters & tying it up at the end.
The saddest thing is that kind innocent defenceless sentient beings are abused and murdered for this person so after consuming their corpses he can flush their remains down his toilet. In short a very frightening individual.
@@lostboy8084 if you really feel sad for plants, stop eating animals, 70% of crops are grown to feed the animals not humans. Plants don't feel pain, they don't have a central nervous system or brain ,they respond to stimuli.
Yes, the saddest thing is the way nature works. It's pure cruelty. A poor defenseless antilope is run down and ripped to shreds by a big cat so after consuming its corpse it just shits its remains in the grass. I agree, nature sucks. Our entire species agrees on that part and for our entire intelligent existence we've been trying to overcome nature and we did succeed in some aspects, but not in this one. Not yet. Veganism is not a scalable solution. It's only somewhat viable for a small portion of financially ok individuals, and even they end up hurting a lot of other beings through their existence.
There is a deeper problem here and this young man illustrates it. We covet the illusion of "sapience" primarily because it allows us to see ourselves as "better" or "more evolved" than other creatures. We are not. Our tendency is to believe that we are "better" because it is encoded in most languages, religions, and cultures. And this is precisely why we need deep change in our languages, cultures, and religions. This will not be an easy task. Thank you Ed for taking a stand against the belief in human superiority. Even deeper is the need to challenge the belief in the illusion of individuality itself. There are more cells in our body containing no human DNA at all than cells with our DNA. We are actually a multitude. Overcoming our illusion of "superiority" will be essential to bring our species into balance with the rest of the natural world. We are all in this together. Good work Ed!
Thank you@@funkymunky. Our language is, primarily, a metaphorical one and most of what we see is an illusion. So you''re right. But most people see evolution as a battle for "dominance" (whatever that means). In fact all of us are a part of an entire global community. I see all evolution as a form of "co-evolution" in which evolution is moving towards balance. That is the only way, I think, that evolution could work. It makes no sense to think of different life forms struggling for survival against other species. It seems more sensible to think of evolution as moving towards balance.
If like you say we are not better than the animals we eat, then why should we not eat them? Lots of animals eat other animals so we should do the same.
Anyone who says that plant-based burgers taste like crap likely never tried more than 1 (if that). There's an unlimited number of recipes in addition to pre-made patties and, unless someone just hates burgers, everyone can find some they'd love. Also, you don't need to eat burgers, vegan or otherwise, so it's not a deal-breaker to do the right thing.
It annoys me when people say that! Also when they say I hate vegan cheese but have only tried 1 type... you wouldn't eat a bag of monster munch and say you hate all crisps lol
Ironically I actually get a lot more sensory pleasure from my favourite plant based burgers than I ever did from animal based ones. If I was able to convey this to my former self though I suspect that my former self may have taken some convincing. Most meat based burgers are terrible but even the expensive higher quality ones still have so much grease and fatty residue which stay on in the lining of your mouth long after any taste pleasure has gone.
@@robsengahay5614Same. Don't forget the ground up cartilage and gristle, and the reason they need to be cooked so well (and all the recalls!). 🤢 Ethics aside, I also find veggie burgers tastier in every way.
@@natasha6341 💯 Vegan cheeses come in all kinds of flavours and textures, just like cow and goat breast milk ones, and I never liked all of those either. There's something for everyone, they just need to try different kinds.
They are the same people who put up "happy animated animal" wallpapers on their kids' room, read them "happy animal children books" and if they happen to visit a farm where the kids get in contact with farm animals, they'll tell them to "be soft with the baby goat"... and then they go home and feast on the corpse and remains of some murdered animal
So many people raise their kids to have this mindset and not only apply it to animals but to other humans as well. It's a big part of what keeps speciesism and racism alive. They're taught from Day 1 that they are the kings of the castle.
most people that have kids are narcissistic and sociopathic. they're willing to play god by creating someone who will inevitably suffer and die in a world already full of need just to be able to have someone with their genes that they can mold and control. breeding is peak selfishness. psycopathy is cultural. most people are psychopathic in a way that is sanctioned by society
Definitely…the kind of person that will never do anything to benefit another or humanity on general…he would watch an old lady get bear to death without lifting a finger or calling the police…waste of space
He's just extremely emotionally dishonest and pretending that makes him stand over any criticism lol. I don't think he's sociopathic, just incredibly cynical.
The thing he did the most was to evade. Each time Ed posed a question proving the senselessness of this guy's answers, he would say that somehow it wasn't his responsibility. The cherry on top was how he projected when he said that people want to pretend to be more moral or ethical than they are. That's him, he is the one who believes that there is no real empathy but mere socializing and image-based responses.
He can only be a paid actor, no one who so clearly knows the damage eating animals does would stick so outright to eating them knowing it harms us as well as those animals.
Yeah, I noticed this too. He wanted to gain the upper hand in the debate and block Ed's advances because maybe this guy had better strategies towards the "win". So disingenuous
surely someone who claims they’re lack of animal harm while engaging in more nuanced consumerism of animal/human harm is more virtue signaling than someone who is able to justify it.
@@pacmanmcgavin7034 because humans are the worst most destructive species on the planet. Attitudes like his are what makes human supremacy and white supremacy so alike. He has been utterly brainwashed into the idea that animals are here for our breeding, exploitation and killing and that they have no value other than what we want them for. History has shown us that people who show themselves to be so at ease with violence toward non-humans will often not stop there.
"I decided that I'm not interested in extending sympathy or empathy towards the animals" That's nonsense, one can decide how to act, but empathy isn't conscious, you experience it or not. And regarding the part when he says that he doesn't care about what happen to less intelectual beings, I think it would be a good place to draw the severely handicapped person example.
this is such a red flag. if he openly demonstrates this much of a lack of empathy for animals, I highly doubt he actually feels empathy towards humans.
what… of course we hold more empathy towards human than animals. you’re not sociopathic for feelimg that way. this is where the socialisation aspect comes in to play.
Ed, you have the patience of a SAINT!!! I would’ve lost my cool. “Just because it’s wrong doesn’t mean it can’t be worth it”. Wow. You could justify all manner of horrific things with that mentality. “Just because slavery and racism are wrong, doesn’t mean it’s not worth it to have my every need catered for whenever i want”. “Just because beating my wife is wrong, doesn’t mean it’s not worth it cause i enjoy it”. “Just because child abuse is wrong doesn’t mean it’s not worth it”. This dude is seriously disturbing. It’s depressing to think other people like him exist. Because they clearly do. Many of those who make excuses think like this and just don’t want to admit it. Kudos to him for just owning it and admitting I suppose… but him doing that doesn’t make what he’s advocating for ok on any leve. Edit: wow that end part where he justifies raping animals “because it doesn’t affect me”. Wtf?!?! He’s even more sociopathic than I thought. I get the feeling he also feels this about humans actually but he just won’t admit it.
I find it interesting - he was asked about his opinion, not "what would be your answer to please others/society" - even if he had a "true answer" and a "socialized but not his true answer", why mentioning the second when clearly asked about the first?
@@MsBkene because when you’re publicly asked a question of course you’re going to give an answer that you deem to be more socially accepted… that’s just common sense.
Imagine being so detached from empathy and reality that you would go on record saying this shit. Like imagine trying to explain this to ur friends when they see it??? Dangerous person tbh
@@rondarkman. spam commenting on videos. You have to have friends and family that you can spend time with. Spending your time trying to argue with strangers online can't be the highlight of your day, I pray that you step outside, get a partner and are happy one day
@@_Bush_Bush_you need to touch grass then eat it, this guy had a long conversation with a vegan that was not necessary, also he just eats meat. And he’s honest, just like you vegans are.
presuming he actually believes this nonsense and isn't just trying to justify he's unwillingness to go vegan, he is missing out on a lot of what it means to be human.
7:25 that's the exact moment when "I don't care about any animal suffering or death at all" became "Well it's okay if it's done humanely". Amazing job at getting him out of his emotionally dishonest position! In my experience, it's a bit uncomfortable for some people, but the comparisons with bestiality help a lot in taking people out of their dishonest egos.
Good for you guys. To stop wrinkles ie aging consume amla powder ad its the most packed fruit with vitamin C. A lady who's 81 looks 40 because of her raw food diet since she was 40.
Ironically this guy helps get the point across. I think this guy represents the internal voice people have when trying to rationalize animal exploitation. In the same way that I believe he'll second guess himself while watching the video, others will see this and not be able to keep these internal rationalizations ambiguous and only half thought out. All in all, great video Ed. The most challenging people to talk to are the one's who claim they "just don't care", and you approached it in the best way anyone could.
I'm tired of people only following the law just because it isn't illegal yet, even when the law is unethical. Do the right thing for the sake of doing the right thing! Don't just wait for the laws to change.
I watched pretty much all of Ed's debates throughout these years, and only recently I realised something. The amount of people who candidly admitted being "selfish", "uncompassionate" or who wouldn't mind murdering another person or eating human flesh because it'd make them feel good is quite alarming. Now, we have to establish if that's what they feel or if they say it to prove Ed - and veganism - wrong. If this is not the case and they're genuine, perhaps we should start watching our back; when someone invites us for dinner, we might be the dinner.
You can only be above animals via empathy as empathy is the highest of all intelligence. Dominance and force will not make you above animals. This guy is so full of ego and subconscious programmed FEAR.
Techically everyone is selfish becsuse it's objectively impossible to escspe your own self interest. Empathy is more in the Realm of illusion because two individuals can go through the same exact experiance and experiance it completely differently and have different feeling about it. But we can use our selfish interests in righteous ways and I do think empathy can exist somehow. =]
@@RighteousnessWillPrevail Can you provide the objective evidence that no one can "escape self interest," and that empathy is just an part of the realm of illusion ?
@@RighteousnessWillPrevail self love can reach to becoming the energy of love. I know because this has been my path. Unconditional love energy is our natural state of being. Via our self love our well being is most important so we stay away from negative people. People of ego are selfish self centered. Those of heart consciousness are not and I speak from my own experiences.
Biggest respect to ed! Being so calm and trying to talk some sense into this person… thank you for going out there and help make the world a better place for all of us!
If you encounter meat-eaters like this who agree they 'should' really be vegan, something to ask them is: 'Will you be truly satisfied living a life that doesn't align with your own values?' Asking myself this was the reason I turned vegan.
This is so interesting to watch because this guy's whole hedonistic thesis resembles someone I use to be friends with, and later stopped being friends with precisely because I started getting too concerned about his selfishness. He's smart, he's articulate, his fucked up logic works perfectly well as long as he keeps his personal happiness on the pedestal. Nothing matters as long as he's not directly affected. He assumes everyone secretly thinks like him and doesn't see what's so fucked up about that.
My concern is there is no way to prove him wrong, unless you have a strong argument for objective morality. With his line of reasoning, he is correct in stating that until there is a strong enough social push to end veganism through legislation, he truly has no necessity to stop eating meat. He sets the line at sapience, that’s what he believes separates humans from animals and makes them superior. It’s arbitrary, and a person can say the same with IQ for example in defense of slavery. However without an objective morality we can appeal to, it will always boil down to what is socially acceptable. He is just as justified as Ed is. His main concern is being logically consistent, and he is, even if he looks sociopathic. Destiny has the same exact argument
@@10jonchannel He isn't logically consistent though, there are more holes in his argument than in any movie directed by Michael Bay. Ed points them out consistently through the video. His only argument is "As long as I'm happy, I can do whatever I want." Which, sure is certainly a choice to live your life, but I think many problems are going to be encountered if you truly want to live that way. It honestly reminds me of internet forums from the early 00's, when teenagers would write thoughts and replies to posts as if they had the whole World figured out without ever having properly lived in it. I was certainly one of them at that time. This is honestly worrying to me when I see people like this exist, because in their own minds... they can justify anything.
@@Sccorpy Except, can you prove that his way of living and making ethical decisions is any more valid than yours? Unless there is an objective morality, you can’t. You’ll say for example “ we should use a utilitarian principle to guide our ethics” and I can say “I believe we should use a deontological one”. A utilitarian one would say “killing animals for food is bad for the climate and our overall well being, therefore it’s bad” for example A deontological one would be “Killing is bad” no matter the causes or circumstances However you can’t say that it is objectively so, because some actions or beliefs might harm one person, but not another. So it ultimately comes down to our socially agreed upon values. Some people believe that their own well being is more important than that of an animal, while others don’t. How can you prove their approach to life and view of self is wrong? You can try, but without the majority of society agreeing with you and proposing a law to stop it, you’ll never change his mind or all meat eaters. Your beliefs are just as valid as his. He is not contradicting himself, he is being logically consistent. Ed didn’t point out any logical inconsistencies, he just took his beliefs to the extreme to find out if he actually holds them. He never contradicted himself, even in the case of kicking a dog. Ed just wanted to point out how sociopathic he sounds, which he does. He’ll catch most people because they love dogs, cats and other animals but don’t apply the same considerations to cows, chickens, and pigs. He does, therefore there is nothing wrong with his argument logically
@@Sccorpy in my opinion this is the first debate where I’ve seen Ed “lose”. He made 0 ground and failed to show how his perspective was any better, other than appealing to emotion
@@10jonchannel Ed won the moment the lad admitted at the start that its better to be vegan. He said so himself. He just went full edge lord with the 'hedonistic' mantra. I see comments saying 'we all think like that' but its evident from the hundreds of other comments that people don't. He has a right to live that lifestyle, I just feel it would be a very lonely and friendless one as I have known people like him, and those people don't have many friends or people they can talk to or confide in. Their actions burned too many bridges. Not saying that will be him, just my own anecdotal experience.
So you don't value your own pleasure? There are things right now you're doing, I'm sure, that are pleasurable to you, but either hurt others or the environment. I guarantee it.
@@1211-n4d I don't hold my own pleasure as the highest virtue. I am for sure engaging in activities that hurt others. That isn't the issue. Universal resources are finite and by simply existing in this world I am hurting others in some abstract way by using resources they would need to then create. The creation of resources will inevitably lead to the trade of those resources and the opportunity for exploitation goes down the chain. I also don't think that zero suffering for any animal is currently a feasible goal. I don't consume for my own pleasure things that purposefully harm others. I have a phone because my family and my job need to contact me. I care more about their peace of mind and my ability to feed my family. When I fall short and do something that hurts someone else to achieve my own pleasure, I feel disguising. I know intrinsically that if meaning is something worth thinking about, there must be something greater than self to aspire to, or else why grow into anything? We don't crucify or burn witches at the stake anymore because we are growing as a species. If that growth is happening what was the catalyst? Something compels us to sacrifice short term comfort for the chance at pushing forward towards a greater state of being. Everything bad in this world has been created from the lower self (fear, war, hatred, selfishness). Everything good has been birthed from the higher self (art, compassion, science, sacrifice). I live my live in pursuit of higher virtues than my flesh and bones hold.
Or resigning before even trying. Hard to watch people who pretend to feel good inside their cynic shell. Who are you to give up on yourself? Is this humankind what you are so proud of?
@@rondarkman. “Sociapaths have a conscience, albeit a weak one, and will often justify something they know to be wrong. By contrast, psychopaths will believe that their actions are justified and feel no remorse for any harm done. “ Which one are you?
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Get your copy of my new book How to Argue With a Meat Eater (And Win Every Time) here: howtoarguewithameateater.com - thank you so much for your support!
I listened to your new audiobook, Ed!
I just finished your new book, it was absolutely incredible. I got the signed copy as well. I can't wait for the third one... I know you're already working on it.
@@ChaseAvior, indeed, Mr. Edward “Winters” Gaunt’s understanding of metaethics is beyond reproach, which explains why he condones the MURDER of poor, innocent humans before they have the opportunity to even see the light of day. 👶
The fact that he repeatedly asserts that “humans are animals”, shows what an abject hypocrite is that MURDEROUS sinner. 😩
Furthermore, it is debatable whether Ed is truly vegan in his outlook, since he recently stated on the national television programme, GBNews, that he believes we ought NOT ban animal agriculture!
“I’m not even saying that we should ban meat, dairy and eggs right now”.
Mr. Ed Gaunt,
So-called “VEGAN” activist. 😐
th-cam.com/video/Sl5GpxLXnuI/w-d-xo.html
Go to the 8:15 mark.
Someone show the vegan videos of cows and horses eating small animals. Or deer chewing bones for calcium.
I saw a video of a deer eating a snake like a froot rollup.
@@dawnmccarthy1 what does that prove? Lmaooooooo
"I think that there's a selfishness there that CONCERNS me." So glad Ed said that sentence and used that word. That was the feeling I felt through the whole video. Concern.
98% of the UK are meat eaters so 98% of us are selfish I guess?
@@ninjaninja9954 Nope. You guess wrong. The selfishness being pointed out is this guy in the video's justification for not caring about what the animals have to suffer and endure. He spoke about how it doesn't benefit HIM to care about the cruelty and abuse animals experience just for him to derive pleasure from the products that they're forced to become. It's an objectively selfish stance to take. That can't be refuted.
As for the 98% of people who eat meat in the UK, I think it's actually closer to about 84% of UK that eats meat. But anyway, they're not all branded as selfish. Perhaps misled, uninformed, misinformed, ill informed, detached, unaware, naive, ignorant, arrogant, oblivious...but not necessarily selfish. It comes down to the person.
I live in the UK and I ate meat for 30 years. Happily. But I would definitely consider myself to have been many of those options. And yes. Perhaps even selfish. Then I decided too change.
@@jamesmarno it's hard to reply to you when my comments get removed because I am giving honest and polite constructive criticism
I don't think that's a selfishness... Life is very complicated and sometimes we must make decisions over things that seem immortal in a One dimensional way... We as a living organism must consume over another living being that isn't us whether they be a plants or an animals or in some cases bacteria... And for morality to only be applied to those whose visage of suffering are the ones that we ourselves can relate to seems hypocritical to me... I mean, we kill millions of living being everyday just by existing...
And I agree that the meat industry is cruel and unethical as per our visage but there are ways that can be adopted which are also environment friendly...
I've seen a project in Japan where rice and ducks were grown collectively and it looked like it served positive for both the plant and the birds without harming the environment... That sort of projects I think everybody should implement...
And it is proven that whole food nutrition is very lacking for a human... as the plant is making food and seeds for itself, not for us... and everything in it is not compatible to our body... that's why we are less likely to suffer from size effect by eating meat raw compared to a plant... As plants too don't want us to eat them...
"the world is here as my resource, i am hedonistic." isnt selfish?@@NAME-sl2ms
Watching these videos really makes you understand why otherwise completely reasonable people in past times accepted things like slavery, sexism, and child marriages.
👏👏👏👏
Exactly. If TH-cam existed 200 years ago. The footage we would have of people debating subjects like slavery would be bonkers. Footage like this will be looked at in the same way one day in the future.
@@uncoiledfish2561Interesting point, well stated.
Yeah hearing this guy talk is a sad revelation of how humans can justify horrible deeds without batting an eyelid. That's why good laws are important I guess
There are over 4m slaves in Europe in 2024.....many of whom work in plant based agriculture. As for sexism and child marriages, they are as rife today as they ever were.
I definitely wouldn’t feel safe around that person. His thought process is genuinely terrifying.
Psychopath was my thought too.
if im honest i dont think hes married to a lot of the points he was making. i think a lot of it was a quick shield to stop him from feeling guilt and desire to change right there in the moment, and to avoid appearing to back down on his lifestyle. if someone weren't questioning him in a hotseat, he would likely never say he believed these things.
200 years ago: "I choose not to extend empathy to enslaved negroes. Why should I choose to make myself miserable for the sake of someone whose suffering is contributing to my hedonistic pleasure. My cotton farm business is exploding and I see no reason to give that up."
The scariest thing for me is the fact that people like him are everywhere, and we run into them all the time. Except that he at least was transparent and didn't pretend to be better than he actually is.
I'm always amused at the perceived intelligence of 18 year olds in their Ivy League bubbles.
Ayn Rand is a minority view in ivy league universities
Yep mainly average/mediocre students from wealthy/comfortable backgrounds
😂
Frrrrr.
Those who've largely never had to fend for themselves outside of heating up a microwave dinner.
Ed’s on fire in this 🔥
your entire argument is based completely and utterly upon anthropomorphizing. You have no substance, this is why nobody takes you guys seriously. There is no cogent, coherent argument presented from the vegan side. Ever wonder why nobody takes you guys seriously?Because I said so is not an argument
Similar to your discussion with Tate. Not a great deal you can say to someone who doesn't care, other than express concern.
@@_Toffee_Hammer_ True, and sometimes I wonder how many of these people, truly don't care or are using it as a defence for their bad habits. I think most of them aren't as psychopathic as they would like us to think.
@JoeyCarbstrong You guys are heroes! Thanks for all that you do.
@@wesroberts2032 I second that!
Wow! The way Ed ended the conversation saying the selfishness concerns him was very powerful.
I thought that was great. A very mature response.
For real
"Me, me, me, me, me!" - That's all I heard.
"To feel life is meaningless unless "I" can be permanent is like having desperately fallen in love with an inch."
- Alan Watts
you are a fake moralist
I could do the moral thing and not cause harm to others. But whats in it for me?
-this guy, seemingly
animals are not equal to humans@@chlorophyllphile
Playing Devil's advocate here, judging from this guy's views as he presents them, calling him egotistical/self centered is not really an argument against anything he stands for. He *is* an egoist. It's the foundation of his understanding of morality. This is as if someone argued against a vegan and said "lol you think animals deserve better than to suffer?"
This guy is not only completely devoid of basic compassion, he's also embarrassingly ignorant about animals
Severely ignorant about biological behaviorism 🙄🙄🙄
My question is : because someone eats meat does that mean they’re not compassionate? Look at Steve Irwin , you know he had a passion for animals. He risked his life rescuing dangerous animals.
Over two years ago I went vegan overnight after hearing you Ed, say, “Is your taste pleasure greater than an animal’s life?” Thank you!! 🙏🏻 Best thing I’ve ever done! Not a hypocrite anymore! 💥
Me too!! ❤️ If I don’t need to consume animals and their byproducts, there is no ethical reason for me to do so
Is being a hypocrite the worst thing that can happen to you?
@@jimx45 Worst, no. But is it high up on my list? Depends for each person on how much they value their own integrity
@@ellensirca9915 You'll be surprised at how many things you are a hypocrite of without knowing. Then that brings up the question, isn't lack of awareness worst than being a hypocrite?
Then there's the question, you might not have cared because you never did that in itself is why you didn't act even though you are aware. Then there's the question you WERE aware of these things, but you refuse to care because they had nothing to do with you or they challenge your life of comfort that you didn't want to abandon.
Then you're at the behest of are you only acting up to what makes you comfortable and has nothing to do with the care of others? So your inability to sacrifice your comforts is now the worst sin you have committed.
@@jimx45 That was a little confusing but I think we can’t judge ourselves on what we don’t know. I personally strive to educate myself on different topics & not turn a blind eye to the suffering of others. We’re human after all, we’ll make mistakes and we aren’t ‘all-knowing’, but we can choose to listen to our heart & act on what we think is the right thing to do. Now, if we know but we think our comfort is more important than small sacrifices that can save or help others, it reflects which values are most important to us, or maybe other deeper underlying issues.
Personally, I strive to live by the value of living authentically with a boundary that ends at if another will be physically harmed in the process. ‘Sin’ is an interesting word, it kind of implies being judged by a higher power & doing the upmost wrong. We all have different thoughts on what’s very bad & whats acceptable behavior. I, along with other vegans (I believe) think that if we can’t watch it, can’t do it, & wouldn’t want it done to us, then at the very least we should not fund it.
This dude is in love with his own idea of how smart he is. He doesn’t realize he actually makes a mockery of critical thinking.
Yeah, he's a cretin!
He is actually thinking tho, and to be fair some of the stuff Ed says didn't make much sense.
take a long look in the mirror
What did Ed say that didn't make sense? Interested to see what i missed
Are you talking about Ed, because the other dude actually did well objectively
Dude forgets we are only a spec of a dust in a vast Universe.... we are nothing. To think about how as humans we are above anything or anyone is an ego talk. The highest form of human existence is empathy and kindness, period.
great words. I will remember them.
Absolutely ❤
I completely agree with what you've said. While people such as you and I recognize this, not many others do. It also really stems, for still a larger majority, how they've been treated as a child. Not many people recognize this but our childhood is the biggest indicator of what and who we grow up to be. Ofcourse, it not for ALL, but still for many.
Tottally Disagree
As Sentient Awareness, Beauty is in the "I" of the beholder .
And the material size of the universe is totally irrelevant to the "Observer" of the material size
There is no "thought" greater than the Thinker of all thoughts.
I agree with the empathy though
The growth of consciousness is always towards higher magnitudes of selflessness. The mostly highly conscious people are the most selfless.
His whole argument = "I don't care"
This video is an infuriating showcase of sheer narcissism and unchecked privilege. It's a stark, unsettling reflection of the worst facets of human behavior, making it an incredibly tough and frustrating watch. Unreal.
Yup this guy sucks
the privilige of being human yes, enjoy it while there are no more dangerous predators its nature baby
I would have have not been able to keep my cool talking to this guy. I could barely stand watching through youtube.
hes vile what a waste of space he is
It's an issue of nihilism and it's a plague however it manifests
I’m so sick of the selfishness of humans.
Most of us fortunately aren't intrinsically selfish but believing that we are making us more selfish.
Me, too.
@@Frazsier-lx1gr Me three!
@@somerandomguy___ Hmm... good point. I feel like it just goes against my nature to be cruel to animals and/or pay for animal cruelty and I think most people fall into that category. I thought animals and animal products tasted delicious, but I cannot justify it and it impacts me negatively mental health-wise to know that I willingly paid for animal harm just for my own tastes. I do like a lot of vegan food too though anyway!
Cope vegan it's our world❤❤
“The 80-100 years I have left” - lol, just lol.
And Ed's comment on this - '80 to 100 is fairly optimistic knowing you eat meat.' 😂
@@lilith7706”Our statistical analysis results indicate that countries with the greater meat intake have greater life expectancy and lower child mortality”.
“A study of more than 218,000 adults from over 50 countries around the world suggests that consuming unprocessed meat regularly can reduce the risk of early death and can increase human longevity.”
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8881926/
Mhm.
I've done plenty of outreach where people said stuff like this but I never really felt like they meant it. This guy though... this is one of the coldest and most sociopathic outreach conversations I've ever seen.
I love your videos! Getting your insight and advice on talking with sociaopathic people like this would be really great
These are the catechisms of a Randian "Objectivist". I don't believe for a moment that what we're seeing is who this kid really is. Rand makes young people feel like they can resolve all of their deep issues by pretending to believe in her rhetorically heavy, logically weak philosophy.
As opposed to a scared kid in a Randian phase, an actual sociopath doesn't proclaim their selfishness, but usually learns early on to fake whatever views will get them what they want.
He is definitely aware of himself. No make up like a lot of people do
@@dekyor9547 I suspect he his a high-functioning sociopath.
I don't think he means it. I think people like this are essentially more logical than most. There's a battle in his mind and this side won him over in order to justify what he does. I think he'll change. I remember my brain cracking the logic. I was so pissed off 😅. I knew I had to do it and went fully vegan instantly 5 years ago. It's just the way my brain works. A lot of people think like he does, but never connect the dots.
"I mean 80 to 100 years might be optimistic if you continue to consume animal products!" nailed it! Chapeau Ed!
Life expectancy is over 80 years in most places around the world and most people consume tons of animal products and processed crap, so it's not optimistic, it's quite realistic.
The kid said 80-100 years he has left. Implying he will live to 100-120. Possible, but unlikely as a baseline, and even moreso due to all the potential cancers and other risks associated with eating meat
@@FISHD0G747no risk with eating fresh clean meat at all
I mean an extra 80-100 years even as a vegan isn't something I'd be so confident about.
@@FISHD0G747 It's not like vegans are well known to have lifespans between 100-120 either. Lots of them are sickly af.
There is vast literature on this: not caring about animals' lives and attempting to rationalize cruelty is a symptom of psychological/personality issues. There is "the link" between people who advocate animal suffering and other harmful behaviors and beliefs. The defence of cruelty against animals and humans come from the same place. This is scientific. There seems to be little doubt this is the case here, he himself recognized he does have personality issues. Ed does a brilliant job as an educator, but there is little he could do here. This is really the case for a mental health professional.
This guy actually looks like a psychopath, so you’re probably right.
Goddamn, the whole comment section is basically gaslighting the guy and putting labels on him for "i don't care" position. I get that you folks really want to distance yourself from that guy and elevate your position, but stuff that you are writing is so entitled
"i wouldnt kill a dog because it could make people upset" this guy sounds like dexter
From the way he explained how he feels empathy he does sound like a legitimate sociopath
@@IamSoEasy47 By his argument, would that mean he was socialized to be a sociopath? I think Ed tried to point out this contradiction and his response was that most people are as selfish as him but they're also virtue signaling liars whereas he's honest. Yikes. I know these debates can go in a million different directions, but I wish Ed had pushed back against the anthropocentric views underpinning his supremacist ideology. He said "humans are above any other life form on this planet" and I don't see how reasons he gave for that supremacist view would justify the subjugation of non-human animals.
Worse than Dexter honestly
Even Hannibal Lecter has more emotion than this guy.
@@andrewlowndes1790 On the anthropocentrism, I totally agree. Anthropocentrism, this idea that because we're more "sapient" or more sentient than other organisms, we're inherently superior is nothing but utter bullshit. For example, without microplancton, there would be no oxygen, and therefore no life on this planet. Or if bees or ants disappeared, if they got extinct, it'd be over for us. On the other hand, if humanity was wiped, in its current state, at least, all other life forms on Earth would thrive.
This human superiority argument really annoys me.
I can't listen to this narcissistic and pseudo-intelligent talk anymore. Unfortunately, this guy is not an isolated case. Thank you Ed for your patience.💚🌱
Ed you literally sound like a philosophy phd who is also good at orating. You took his arguments apart so methodically and beautifully. We are lucky to have you on our side!
Still the human gut evolved to process animal based food with some plants. Being a good debater chosing a weird opponent doesnt change biology. In 5 years most vegans are either quiting or vey ill and or dying. I do not care. Have your superior moral but leave me alone.
I love how the noisy thing drove past as he talked about how he owns the world - universe was telling him to shut up
Or to ponder a little bit more 😅🤗🤭
Oh my Godddddd I had the same thought as welllll hahahaha like "oh we are the masters here" -annoying noise in the background-. Yes, we're the best at causing chaos, congrats!
As someone who went to Brown, these "devil's advocate" type people are everywhere in my classes. So sad to see this lack of empathy among the students.
Empathy is subjective so stop grandstanding
@@markwilson2421it really isn't lol
I think Brown U has a greater percentage of entitled students than most places in RI.
@@ginafera8132All colleges nowadays are breeding grounds of narcissism and indoctrination.
No injustice should be analyzed from the point of the view of the abuser
I don’t know how you stay so calm, Ed. Your patience is unbelievable.
The thing I find very weird about the hedonism argument that wasn't discussed here is: Why does he assume he can't have a lot of enjoyment on a vegan diet? Has he ever tried? I personally indulge in and enjoy my food greatly, without needing to maximize suffering.
Yes...and to take that a bit further, one can find a more pure pleasure in having compassion. Pleasure is pleasure, and if you decide your mindset is focused on helping rather than hurting, it suddenly becomes guilt free pleasure on all levels. Simply by deciding to walk down the other side of the street. Easy peasy lemon squeezy.
Vegan burgers don't taste exactly the same, but they are freaking good. Like the burger king vegan burger is amazing, what
@@allandm tbh for some people like myself it’s awesome they don’t taste exactly the same. Before going vegan, I always tried to mask the taste with as many herbs as possible. Now anything that tastes too much like animal flesh it’s absolutely repulsive to me.
Very true. I love my spicy delicious meals. Getting hungry just thinking about it.
Exactly. I stopped eating processed foods for health reasons a while ago and I still get so much enjoyment out of my meals. Plant foods are delicious and there are so many ways to prepare them, I never get tired of eating this way or feel like I'm missing out on something. Even a quick Google search will show you so many plant-based meals to try.
So impressive how Ed responded when he said animals arent sentient. Instead of just "...of course they are," he literally referred back to how the dude already referred to their sentience
The "I only contribute a tiny amount on a global scale" and "all vegan foods are disgusting" arguments are among those that frustrate me the most.
People like this just have their fingers in their ears shouting "la la la I can't hear you!" and think it will solve everything.
No, he knows it, he just doesn’t care, which is even worse
I wonder what this meat eater would think about the Philosopher Immanuel Kant's Categorical Imperative- "Act according to the maxim that you would wish all other rational people to follow, as if it were a universal law."-CUNY
To act in any other way is to act immorally.
Well, he could hear more if he removed his head from his stinky tunnel.
You try working construction site every day and not eat meat
@@yungmentalproblems I work in a warehouse 5/7 days and I lift a few tonnes daily combined. I've been vegan for 10 years and feel fantastic. I'm sorry but your argument is wrong
"Put a two year old child in a crib with a bunny rabbit and an apple and let me know when the child eats the bunny rabbit and plays with the apple". ~ Gary Yourofosky
Do the same experiment with a steak and a piece of broccoli and see which one he eats first 😂
@@ACT1ON_JACKSON you dind't get it. This experiment proves it doesn't come from our instincts to see animals as food, to want to kill them with our teeth and eat them raw like actually real omnivores do
@ACT1ON_JACKSON It would probably have similar results to human meat and broccoli.
@@ACT1ON_JACKSONthey would eat neither, humans are frugivores
@@natesilvers2166
Bahahahah
This is one of Ed's best debates. I've always admired his debating ability, but in the video he really demonstrates why he is the goat. He picks up on every inconsistency in this guy's argument and brings them back 15 minutes later when he makes a contradiction. Identified and acted on every hole in this guy's argument.
I also love how he got him to admit he is selfish and narcissistic 😂
Morally bankrupt
Who are you, Jesus?
Morality is a human construct. And as such, it is not infinitely malleable.
@@alibabaschultz352oh the cowardly troll at it again, do you have nothing better to do??
@@alibabaschultz352 - Who are you ?!
Videos like this are great though. This is essentially the average persons logic out loud. Most people hearing this wouldn't be happy about it. Useful conversation. A little messed up too.
It's proven every time: intelligence doesn't equate to wisdom.
That part!!!! 👏🏼
The only correct claim by a meat eater who has a reasonable choice and chooses to eat meat is, “I know it’s wrong, I choose to do it anyways, it’s bad for humans, animals and the environment, but I’m selfish and ignorant.” Most people can’t get to that realization before turning away, thank you Ed.
Yep, that's exactly what he did.
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8881926/
Vegans don’t give a shit about the farmers who make their food
All the mental gymnastics just because the baby doesn't want to eat his vegetables.
imagine what his gut is like
He eats his veggies and meat he gets the best of both
@@markwilson2421Yet he looks more skinny and pasty than Ed.
@@markwilson2421🤡
What a load of BS. Vegans apply the same justification: plants are not sentient... or not sentient enough. So it's fine to eat them. Although there's enough evidence that suggests that plants have stress responses and we barely understand how plants communicate in forests via the mycelium and mycorrhizal networks and even transfer nutrients to each other.
Why do all of these meat eaters ALWAYS end up saying, "At the end of the day..."
It optimises apathy, doesnt it
It's like, it is what it is. It's a way of speaking without saying anything.
Exactly. Every time. Simply put: the realization of losing/failure hurts, and that’s how they try to redeem themselves… at the end of the day… 🤦🏻♂️
Apathy...very good, Bugsy.@@bugsthompson
thought terminating cliches
Also people calling him a narcissist or a sociopath must remember that they are mental conditions over which people have no control. Using the terms as an insult serves only to make you feel better (or probably more likely get you more worked up!). Like all of us he is a product of a lifetime (and previous generations) of nature and nurture that have led him to his current stance. I think most (but not all) people could be convinced to be vegan some day but what it takes to trigger that decision is vastly different in different people. Throwing insults around will in most cases just make the problem worse.
This is so true, at the same time vegans themselves probably face a similar treatment from aggressive non-vegans. So the whole dispute turns into a plain tribalism, with meat-eaters being literal Hitlers and worst disdainful maniacs and vegans being woke brainwashed latent suicides. And thus the circle of mutual hate continues...
"Really, I have kind of decided that I am not interested in extending sympathy or empathy towards this Guy"
I am sure he will sleep just fine
Are you his roommate?@@markwilson2421
I’m tired of sharing the planet with people that know they are doing something wrong but yet make excuses to continue to do so.
Eating meat isn't wrong. It's the proper human diet. Cope harder.
@@ACT1ON_JACKSON yet the “proper human diet” requires animals to be cut up into small pieces by other people in order for the majority of the population to consume them. Few people can stomach the images of animals being slaughtered and even fewer people can do the killing and slaughtering themselves. Looking at this from first principles… I’d say killing and eating animals is NOT the proper human diet or the majority of people would not mind doing what it takes on their own.
Good luck with that..
@@ACT1ON_JACKSONvast majority of people… disgusted 🤢 by seeing animals slaughtered… even more people can’t even kill and process the animals themselves 🤮. Approaching this first principles and fundamental truths… do you truly believe eating animals is the proper human diet?
@@ACT1ON_JACKSONdo only prepubescent simpletons use the word cope? Or do other types of fools use it as well?
To any other vegans watching this with despair: take heart! I know at least one passionate vegan activist who, before going vegan, thought and felt similarly to this guy.
“80-100 years might be optimistic if you continue to consume animal products“😮💨😮💨😮💨
I laughed my ass when the guy said he has 80-100 years ahead😂
😂😂😂
haha that made me laugh for real
I love when Ed throws in some cheeky shade like that
I thought just the same 😂😂😂
I found that the most difficult debates I have are with people who basically say "I know it's wrong but I don't care". How do you argue against that? Ed always has amazing arguments but I feel he also struggled with this one.
There isn't an argument against it really. Compassion will not sway them so it'd come down to matters like feasibility and ease of access - but in reality, it is still much more convenient to not be vegan, and people thrive off instant gratification. People like this are not going to change without ample social pressure.
you cant really argue against that. Like joey does, you have to find contradiction by asking how much they wouldn't care so you can find if they are lying or not and if they are not lying like this person you cant do anything about it.
There's nothing else to argue with that kind of people. My gripe is to bring that up right away instead of coming up with a bunch of excuses and then ending up with "I don't care."
Find contradictions. Most people who say they don't care do have a reaction to the mention of bestiality, so that's where you can start working from, for example.
I would ask whether he believes women should have equal pay to men for the same job and whether they should be entitled to the vote and equivalent rights to a man. I suspect he would say yes of course.
Then I would ask whether if he had been born 100 years earlier would he not have held the opposite view given that, as a man then, he would actually incur a net benefit from the status quo.
Given though that he had already accepted at the outset that he recognised he was on the wrong side of history on the issue of veganism then it is a moot point to some extent.
I assume he wouldn’t advocate or support taking away the rights women have gained in the last 100 years so he would simply acquiesce with the societal norm at any given time. He is evidently an intelligent guy but simply following the crowd is a distinctly unintelligent position. I wonder what his thoughts on that are.
I honestly don't know how I'd be able to engage in a conversation with someone who is so openly villainous in their way of thinking.
I've seen enough of these to know that when someone uses the phrase "at the end of the day" they're about to say something crazy to uphold the status quo on eating animals
Hahaha
I’m actually glad he was just honest because we got to hear a discussion which we usually don’t: “I don’t care, I’m selfish & animals are dumb.”
Ed did well at keeping the conversation on what matters & tying it up at the end.
Lmaooo great start,, "hi Ed nice to meet you, I'd like to start this debate by saying I already know I'm wrong. let's begin." LOL 😂
The saddest thing is that kind innocent defenceless sentient beings are abused and murdered for this person so after consuming their corpses he can flush their remains down his toilet.
In short a very frightening individual.
Thankfully his dating pool has massively reduced due to this video. Ugly on the outside and (fare more importantly) on the inside.
The sad thing that those innocent defenseless plants can be killed 😢 just to end as your 💩.
@@lostboy8084 if you really feel sad for plants, stop eating animals, 70% of crops are grown to feed the animals not humans.
Plants don't feel pain, they don't have a central nervous system or brain ,they respond to stimuli.
@@lostboy8084 being vegan reduces plant suffering too because youre not eating animals that are being fed plants
Yes, the saddest thing is the way nature works. It's pure cruelty. A poor defenseless antilope is run down and ripped to shreds by a big cat so after consuming its corpse it just shits its remains in the grass. I agree, nature sucks. Our entire species agrees on that part and for our entire intelligent existence we've been trying to overcome nature and we did succeed in some aspects, but not in this one. Not yet. Veganism is not a scalable solution. It's only somewhat viable for a small portion of financially ok individuals, and even they end up hurting a lot of other beings through their existence.
There is a deeper problem here and this young man illustrates it. We covet the illusion of "sapience" primarily because it allows us to see ourselves as "better" or "more evolved" than other creatures. We are not. Our tendency is to believe that we are "better" because it is encoded in most languages, religions, and cultures. And this is precisely why we need deep change in our languages, cultures, and religions. This will not be an easy task.
Thank you Ed for taking a stand against the belief in human superiority. Even deeper is the need to challenge the belief in the illusion of individuality itself. There are more cells in our body containing no human DNA at all than cells with our DNA. We are actually a multitude. Overcoming our illusion of "superiority" will be essential to bring our species into balance with the rest of the natural world. We are all in this together. Good work Ed!
You are absolutely correct, we are just another animal. As you know Chimpanzees eat meat too.
Balance is an illusion as deep as the ones you outline.
Thank you@@funkymunky. Our language is, primarily, a metaphorical one and most of what we see is an illusion. So you''re right. But most people see evolution as a battle for "dominance" (whatever that means). In fact all of us are a part of an entire global community. I see all evolution as a form of "co-evolution" in which evolution is moving towards balance. That is the only way, I think, that evolution could work. It makes no sense to think of different life forms struggling for survival against other species. It seems more sensible to think of evolution as moving towards balance.
If like you say we are not better than the animals we eat, then why should we not eat them? Lots of animals eat other animals so we should do the same.
@@SuperJJParker agreed
That was a stimulating argument. Blimey, you need some stamina to do what you do, Ed. Keep on doing what you do!
Anyone who says that plant-based burgers taste like crap likely never tried more than 1 (if that). There's an unlimited number of recipes in addition to pre-made patties and, unless someone just hates burgers, everyone can find some they'd love. Also, you don't need to eat burgers, vegan or otherwise, so it's not a deal-breaker to do the right thing.
It annoys me when people say that! Also when they say I hate vegan cheese but have only tried 1 type... you wouldn't eat a bag of monster munch and say you hate all crisps lol
Ironically I actually get a lot more sensory pleasure from my favourite plant based burgers than I ever did from animal based ones. If I was able to convey this to my former self though I suspect that my former self may have taken some convincing.
Most meat based burgers are terrible but even the expensive higher quality ones still have so much grease and fatty residue which stay on in the lining of your mouth long after any taste pleasure has gone.
True. I haven't had a vegan burger patty I didn't like. And I've had quite a variety of them. 😀
@@robsengahay5614Same. Don't forget the ground up cartilage and gristle, and the reason they need to be cooked so well (and all the recalls!). 🤢 Ethics aside, I also find veggie burgers tastier in every way.
@@natasha6341 💯 Vegan cheeses come in all kinds of flavours and textures, just like cow and goat breast milk ones, and I never liked all of those either. There's something for everyone, they just need to try different kinds.
It’s scary that people like this then go on to have kids and raise them with that mindset
They are the same people who put up "happy animated animal" wallpapers on their kids' room, read them "happy animal children books" and if they happen to visit a farm where the kids get in contact with farm animals, they'll tell them to "be soft with the baby goat"... and then they go home and feast on the corpse and remains of some murdered animal
So many people raise their kids to have this mindset and not only apply it to animals but to other humans as well. It's a big part of what keeps speciesism and racism alive. They're taught from Day 1 that they are the kings of the castle.
I'm gonna cling to the belief that no one would wanna marry this psychopath.
most people that have kids are narcissistic and sociopathic. they're willing to play god by creating someone who will inevitably suffer and die in a world already full of need just to be able to have someone with their genes that they can mold and control. breeding is peak selfishness. psycopathy is cultural. most people are psychopathic in a way that is sanctioned by society
Ed lied, no way was it a pleasure talking to such a person.
🤣🤣
Word.
Also just from that first clip alone the guy seems like a sociopath
Definitely…the kind of person that will never do anything to benefit another or humanity on general…he would watch an old lady get bear to death without lifting a finger or calling the police…waste of space
Doesn't get much better watching the rest of it.
He's just extremely emotionally dishonest and pretending that makes him stand over any criticism lol. I don't think he's sociopathic, just incredibly cynical.
@@Shroedinger73 And what would you do in that situation instead? Risk your life to save a stranger?
"...without lifting a finger or CALLING THE POLICE..."@@sushmitbanerjee1660
The thing he did the most was to evade. Each time Ed posed a question proving the senselessness of this guy's answers, he would say that somehow it wasn't his responsibility. The cherry on top was how he projected when he said that people want to pretend to be more moral or ethical than they are. That's him, he is the one who believes that there is no real empathy but mere socializing and image-based responses.
🎯🎯🎯🎯🎯🎯🎯
He can only be a paid actor, no one who so clearly knows the damage eating animals does would stick so outright to eating them knowing it harms us as well as those animals.
I think that empathy is a biological product of a social species, however, I don't think that lowers its value
Yeah, I noticed this too. He wanted to gain the upper hand in the debate and block Ed's advances because maybe this guy had better strategies towards the "win". So disingenuous
surely someone who claims they’re lack of animal harm while engaging in more nuanced consumerism of animal/human harm is more virtue signaling than someone who is able to justify it.
You know who also put their pleasure above suffering? Rapists and serial killers...
I mean you can put your own pleasure and convenience above that of animals without condoning rapists and serial killers
One more "he is Hitler" argument ffs...
The level of human self importance to justify being so casual about death is very worrying.
Why is it worrying?
@@pacmanmcgavin7034 because humans are the worst most destructive species on the planet. Attitudes like his are what makes human supremacy and white supremacy so alike. He has been utterly brainwashed into the idea that animals are here for our breeding, exploitation and killing and that they have no value other than what we want them for.
History has shown us that people who show themselves to be so at ease with violence toward non-humans will often not stop there.
@@pacmanmcgavin7034makes death like a small thing
"I decided that I'm not interested in extending sympathy or empathy towards the animals" That's nonsense, one can decide how to act, but empathy isn't conscious, you experience it or not.
And regarding the part when he says that he doesn't care about what happen to less intelectual beings, I think it would be a good place to draw the severely handicapped person example.
Great point. Wonder how he'd deal with eugenics. Very sus
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you! Simple Golden rule that also includes our animal friends. Thank you Ed 😊🙏👏✌️♥️♥️♥️
Mr. Selfish is an excuse machine, and has sociopathic tendencies...
As do you.
@@pacmanmcgavin7034is that an argument?
He has a different moral compass to you. You are no better than anyone else
I am better than the vegan cult.@@markwilson2421
Yes, I am better than the vegans.@@martingarreis
This guy is severely empathy impaired.
He probably left the interview thinking he’d been very coherent and logical, and giving himself a pat on the back.
He was, stupid.
i became vegan because i was sick of being an entitled, brain-washed hypocrite.🌱
❤❤❤
Bravo hero 😂😂😂
@@rondarkman. you will be here until the end of your days. 😆i feel kind of bad for you.
@animalsareherewithusnotforus
Nah I'm good true though, why wouldn't i vegans provide the greatest source of comedy
Your comments support this channel. You comment a lot ❤@@rondarkman.
this is such a red flag. if he openly demonstrates this much of a lack of empathy for animals, I highly doubt he actually feels empathy towards humans.
bro literally said that he doesn't care if someone rapes an animal as long as he doesn't need to see it
empathy isnt inherently good. a lot of the evil in the world is perpetuated by empathy
what… of course we hold more empathy towards human than animals. you’re not sociopathic for feelimg that way. this is where the socialisation aspect comes in to play.
14:45 represents this clearly.
@@LuZu_ do you also not care if animals get raped?
Ed, you have the patience of a SAINT!!! I would’ve lost my cool.
“Just because it’s wrong doesn’t mean it can’t be worth it”. Wow. You could justify all manner of horrific things with that mentality. “Just because slavery and racism are wrong, doesn’t mean it’s not worth it to have my every need catered for whenever i want”.
“Just because beating my wife is wrong, doesn’t mean it’s not worth it cause i enjoy it”.
“Just because child abuse is wrong doesn’t mean it’s not worth it”.
This dude is seriously disturbing. It’s depressing to think other people like him exist. Because they clearly do. Many of those who make excuses think like this and just don’t want to admit it. Kudos to him for just owning it and admitting I suppose… but him doing that doesn’t make what he’s advocating for ok on any leve.
Edit: wow that end part where he justifies raping animals “because it doesn’t affect me”. Wtf?!?! He’s even more sociopathic than I thought. I get the feeling he also feels this about humans actually but he just won’t admit it.
3:33 Ed being a straight SAVAGE ❤❤❤🎉🎉🎉 I love it
Says a lot when someone says they have their true answer and a 'socialized' answer.
I find it interesting - he was asked about his opinion, not "what would be your answer to please others/society" - even if he had a "true answer" and a "socialized but not his true answer", why mentioning the second when clearly asked about the first?
It's very odd. He shows tendency of mimicking behaviour. Which psychopaths do.
It really doesn’t. Most people have socially acceptable and non-socially acceptable answers and opinions.
@@HA-nj1qt Who do you speak for? What facts do you base this statement on?
@@MsBkene because when you’re publicly asked a question of course you’re going to give an answer that you deem to be more socially accepted… that’s just common sense.
I have to say, this is one of Ed's best debates/conversations, his articulation and on the spot critical thinking skills were sound and coherent.
Imagine being so detached from empathy and reality that you would go on record saying this shit. Like imagine trying to explain this to ur friends when they see it??? Dangerous person tbh
This guy must be fun at parties.
In all seriousness, he is genuinely terrifying.
Cope vegan 😂😂
@@rondarkman. spam commenting on videos. You have to have friends and family that you can spend time with. Spending your time trying to argue with strangers online can't be the highlight of your day, I pray that you step outside, get a partner and are happy one day
@bushbush7484
A lot of assumptions there bud lol 😆 😂 try again
@@_Bush_Bush_you need to touch grass then eat it, this guy had a long conversation with a vegan that was not necessary, also he just eats meat. And he’s honest, just like you vegans are.
@@rondarkman."Cope vegan" says the projecting meat eater who's made 100+ comments on this channel alone
You did a really great job there!! Well done for staying so strong and calm. It was really inspiring to watch.
presuming he actually believes this nonsense and isn't just trying to justify he's unwillingness to go vegan, he is missing out on a lot of what it means to be human.
Tate Logic.
7:25 that's the exact moment when "I don't care about any animal suffering or death at all" became "Well it's okay if it's done humanely". Amazing job at getting him out of his emotionally dishonest position! In my experience, it's a bit uncomfortable for some people, but the comparisons with bestiality help a lot in taking people out of their dishonest egos.
You mean rape beastiality.
“I have grown up….“- No, you have not.
The school psychologist should have a very serious talk with this….
your videos are my favorite since i turned vegan in may 😁!
heyy I also turned vegan in may 🌱🫶🏻
Good for you guys. To stop wrinkles ie aging consume amla powder ad its the most packed fruit with vitamin C. A lady who's 81 looks 40 because of her raw food diet since she was 40.
@@blumenfeld21 oh so cool haha😁!! congrats
too sweet 🤘
aye congrats
Ironically this guy helps get the point across. I think this guy represents the internal voice people have when trying to rationalize animal exploitation. In the same way that I believe he'll second guess himself while watching the video, others will see this and not be able to keep these internal rationalizations ambiguous and only half thought out.
All in all, great video Ed. The most challenging people to talk to are the one's who claim they "just don't care", and you approached it in the best way anyone could.
Ed, you amaze me every time. Your patience and logic are unmatched. Thank you.
I'm tired of people only following the law just because it isn't illegal yet, even when the law is unethical. Do the right thing for the sake of doing the right thing! Don't just wait for the laws to change.
you very well ended your discussion, Ed! Thats just perfect roundup, crazy well done!
Thanks for sharing this. I am oh-so impressed with how Ed kept his composure and continued to politely point out the flaws in Wells' remarks.
Ed,you have the patience of a saint 🙈 keep up the brilliant work . Thank you .
I watched pretty much all of Ed's debates throughout these years, and only recently I realised something. The amount of people who candidly admitted being "selfish", "uncompassionate" or who wouldn't mind murdering another person or eating human flesh because it'd make them feel good is quite alarming. Now, we have to establish if that's what they feel or if they say it to prove Ed - and veganism - wrong. If this is not the case and they're genuine, perhaps we should start watching our back; when someone invites us for dinner, we might be the dinner.
If I'm going to be the dinner then I guess jokes on them as they'll be eating vegan sausage
@@PACKTdotSPACEhahah true! 😂
"when someone invites us for dinner, we might be the dinner." - like "I'm having an old friend for dinner." 😄
@@Frazsier-lx1gr precisely 😬
I have very little trust in humans. Untrustworthy, greedy, selfish, and destructive.
Watching these videos is like watching people admit that they're narcissists/sociopaths
You can only be above animals via empathy as empathy is the highest of all intelligence. Dominance and force will not make you above animals.
This guy is so full of ego and subconscious programmed FEAR.
Humans ARE animals (mammals).
But it's also a step on the path. I respect people's experience are their own. But just lead by example. As the good vibes always speaks for itself
Techically everyone is selfish becsuse it's objectively impossible to escspe your own self interest. Empathy is more in the Realm of illusion because two individuals can go through the same exact experiance and experiance it completely differently and have different feeling about it.
But we can use our selfish interests in righteous ways and I do think empathy can exist somehow. =]
@@RighteousnessWillPrevail
Can you provide the objective evidence that no one can "escape self interest," and that empathy is just an part of the realm of illusion ?
@@RighteousnessWillPrevail self love can reach to becoming the energy of love. I know because this has been my path. Unconditional love energy is our natural state of being. Via our self love our well being is most important so we stay away from negative people. People of ego are selfish self centered. Those of heart consciousness are not and I speak from my own experiences.
I would not leave this man alone with my dog
Or my cat 🐈! 👍
I would not leave any living being with him !
Or a 🐑 sheep, if you see what I mean 😉
Yes 😆
Biggest respect to ed! Being so calm and trying to talk some sense into this person… thank you for going out there and help make the world a better place for all of us!
If you encounter meat-eaters like this who agree they 'should' really be vegan, something to ask them is:
'Will you be truly satisfied living a life that doesn't align with your own values?'
Asking myself this was the reason I turned vegan.
That requires empathy tho. and congrats u have it! But almost no one has that
This guy seems to have just stocked up on a big order of Meatflake Copium Supply.
You still a cultist? Jesus, dude.
@@pacmanmcgavin7034🤡
😂😂
@@pacmanmcgavin7034there you are 🤡
"Nobody is bothering me about this so it's not a problem for me."
This is so interesting to watch because this guy's whole hedonistic thesis resembles someone I use to be friends with, and later stopped being friends with precisely because I started getting too concerned about his selfishness.
He's smart, he's articulate, his fucked up logic works perfectly well as long as he keeps his personal happiness on the pedestal. Nothing matters as long as he's not directly affected. He assumes everyone secretly thinks like him and doesn't see what's so fucked up about that.
My concern is there is no way to prove him wrong, unless you have a strong argument for objective morality. With his line of reasoning, he is correct in stating that until there is a strong enough social push to end veganism through legislation, he truly has no necessity to stop eating meat. He sets the line at sapience, that’s what he believes separates humans from animals and makes them superior. It’s arbitrary, and a person can say the same with IQ for example in defense of slavery. However without an objective morality we can appeal to, it will always boil down to what is socially acceptable. He is just as justified as Ed is. His main concern is being logically consistent, and he is, even if he looks sociopathic. Destiny has the same exact argument
@@10jonchannel
He isn't logically consistent though, there are more holes in his argument than in any movie directed by Michael Bay. Ed points them out consistently through the video. His only argument is "As long as I'm happy, I can do whatever I want." Which, sure is certainly a choice to live your life, but I think many problems are going to be encountered if you truly want to live that way.
It honestly reminds me of internet forums from the early 00's, when teenagers would write thoughts and replies to posts as if they had the whole World figured out without ever having properly lived in it. I was certainly one of them at that time.
This is honestly worrying to me when I see people like this exist, because in their own minds... they can justify anything.
@@Sccorpy Except, can you prove that his way of living and making ethical decisions is any more valid than yours? Unless there is an objective morality, you can’t.
You’ll say for example “ we should use a utilitarian principle to guide our ethics” and I can say “I believe we should use a deontological one”.
A utilitarian one would say “killing animals for food is bad for the climate and our overall well being, therefore it’s bad” for example
A deontological one would be “Killing is bad” no matter the causes or circumstances
However you can’t say that it is objectively so, because some actions or beliefs might harm one person, but not another. So it ultimately comes down to our socially agreed upon values. Some people believe that their own well being is more important than that of an animal, while others don’t. How can you prove their approach to life and view of self is wrong? You can try, but without the majority of society agreeing with you and proposing a law to stop it, you’ll never change his mind or all meat eaters. Your beliefs are just as valid as his. He is not contradicting himself, he is being logically consistent.
Ed didn’t point out any logical inconsistencies, he just took his beliefs to the extreme to find out if he actually holds them. He never contradicted himself, even in the case of kicking a dog. Ed just wanted to point out how sociopathic he sounds, which he does. He’ll catch most people because they love dogs, cats and other animals but don’t apply the same considerations to cows, chickens, and pigs. He does, therefore there is nothing wrong with his argument logically
@@Sccorpy in my opinion this is the first debate where I’ve seen Ed “lose”. He made 0 ground and failed to show how his perspective was any better, other than appealing to emotion
@@10jonchannel
Ed won the moment the lad admitted at the start that its better to be vegan. He said so himself.
He just went full edge lord with the 'hedonistic' mantra. I see comments saying 'we all think like that' but its evident from the hundreds of other comments that people don't.
He has a right to live that lifestyle, I just feel it would be a very lonely and friendless one as I have known people like him, and those people don't have many friends or people they can talk to or confide in. Their actions burned too many bridges.
Not saying that will be him, just my own anecdotal experience.
lmao at the intellectualism of psychopathy
😂well said. The guy looks like a psychopath. At least in this case, you can judge a book by its cover😊
So eloquent, I loved how you reached out one last time at the end in an accepting, embracing manor. Hopefully he remembers how kind you were Ed!
I just watched a man contradict himself for basically 26 minutes
...a boy....
Behold. This is what happens when society places self as a higher power and the pleasure of self as the ultimate achievement.
So you don't value your own pleasure? There are things right now you're doing, I'm sure, that are pleasurable to you, but either hurt others or the environment. I guarantee it.
@@1211-n4d I don't hold my own pleasure as the highest virtue. I am for sure engaging in activities that hurt others. That isn't the issue. Universal resources are finite and by simply existing in this world I am hurting others in some abstract way by using resources they would need to then create. The creation of resources will inevitably lead to the trade of those resources and the opportunity for exploitation goes down the chain. I also don't think that zero suffering for any animal is currently a feasible goal. I don't consume for my own pleasure things that purposefully harm others. I have a phone because my family and my job need to contact me. I care more about their peace of mind and my ability to feed my family. When I fall short and do something that hurts someone else to achieve my own pleasure, I feel disguising. I know intrinsically that if meaning is something worth thinking about, there must be something greater than self to aspire to, or else why grow into anything? We don't crucify or burn witches at the stake anymore because we are growing as a species. If that growth is happening what was the catalyst? Something compels us to sacrifice short term comfort for the chance at pushing forward towards a greater state of being. Everything bad in this world has been created from the lower self (fear, war, hatred, selfishness). Everything good has been birthed from the higher self (art, compassion, science, sacrifice). I live my live in pursuit of higher virtues than my flesh and bones hold.
@@1211-n4d That wouldn't conclude a reason to be as bad as possible. I mean, look at how all the worst world leaders fall after all their pleasures.
This video will one day be used against this guy in his criminal trial.
I don’t think this interviewee realizes how creepy his arguments are #IncelAttitude 25:32 read him to filth, Ed!! 🤣
Anyone who is capable of finding solace in the 'I know I'm bad' appeal is dumb.
Dumb, or evil
Or resigning before even trying. Hard to watch people who pretend to feel good inside their cynic shell. Who are you to give up on yourself? Is this humankind what you are so proud of?
I'm good...and I eat steak.
@@xeno942 Evil makes you dumb. 👹
It's also probably their best argument
I was just like him 8 years ago, making similar arguments (to myself-there were no vegan activists around). People change, and I hope he does too.
I think we just met Jeffrey Dahmer’s son. 😳 I hope the FBI is watching this kid.
Vegans and dahmer 😂😂
@@rondarkman. “Sociapaths have a conscience, albeit a weak one, and will often justify something they know to be wrong. By contrast, psychopaths will believe that their actions are justified and feel no remorse for any harm done. “
Which one are you?
@@rondarkman. another meat eater obsessed with vegans. You've even made your way to a video and spent your spare time commenting - worrying
@@rondarkman. A person with a strong moral compass would look for excuses to harm less, not more.
The FBI is filled with people like this guy :/
How the hell did this guy get into Brown??? He’s gotta be a legacy kid…
Good grades.
Thanks!