I love the scene of Mirian Margolyes voice acting in character looking so sad and pathetic. It gives me begger vibes and you just feel bad for her. What a legend.
I thought it was rather fun. It’s got some issues, but, honestly, for a special that’s what I expected. You don’t expect Midnight or Dalek for a special. You expect The Runaway Bride. This episode had some cracking humour, some good explosions and a nice familiar sense of Doctor Who. It’s clear that Tennant and Tate haven’t lost anything in the years apart from the show, and Davies still has a good sense of what makes Who Who. My only issues were some of it felt a bit underwritten, especially Rose, who had a great start but ended up as more of a plot device. Jacqueline King’s also hilarious in this.
King was awesome!! Rose could have used a bit more screen time to better flesh out the character and more adequately respond to Beep the Meep comments and other moments. I also had an issue with the super sonic screwdriver. Maybe just cut out some concrete from the home instead of creating a temporary barrier? Just an idea, though maybe not the best...but I'm not paid to be a writer.
An observation I've heard talking to those In the LGBT community is that they really shouldn't have tried tying in Rose's gender into the plot resolution. Maybe others in the community feel differently, but I can understand some not being comfortable with trans identity being treated as something special and magical, however, well intentioned that may seem on the surface.
I don't think Rose being trans had anything to do with being special and magic. The impression I got was that the Meta Crisis would have been inherited by any of Donnas kids regardless of gender, Rose just happened to also be trans. She says "nonbinary" because the Meta Crisis becomes 3 people instead of the binary 2 people it was originally. It's possible she is also nonbinary and the scene had a double meaning, but I really don't think the Meta Crisis made her that way or that her being trans/enby gave her some magical power over the Meta Crisis.
@@theshadowdirector The scene after does get a bit muddled, they say that the 2 of them are "binary" and then say "she's not" when she's added to the Meta Crisis, and then they go on about the Doctor being "Male and female. And neither. And more." It seems more like they're being a little metaphorical at the end, because the Meta Crisis is connecting Donna (a women), the Doctor (in a male incarnation) and Rose (a trans/enby person). If Rose's gender was influenced by the Doctor she would be genderfluid, but the episode (while doesn't state her identity specifically) implies she's at most trans fem enby. Rose also says "I'm finally me" after she's let go of the Meta Crisis, she no longer has the Doctor and Donnas memories in her subconscious, yet she's still trans/enby.
@@Concreteowl The Meta Crisis and the Doctor/Donnas memories influenced her subconsciously, no one is saying otherwise. But that doesn't mean it made her trans. She says she finally feels herself after letting go of the Meta Crisis energy, and is still trans. I highly doubt RTD is going to write Rose de-transitioning at the end of The Giggle. The Meta Crisis didn't make Donna trans/nonbinary, and she had the same stuff in her subconscious and subconsciously tried to be "like the Doctor" like Rose did.
19:14 As a trans person myself (obviously I can only speak for myself here - I'd like to know other trans people's opinion tho. Feel free to comment under this if you like), I think scenes of deadnaming and family members talking about their struggles to accept their child's or grandchild's actual self should be shown on principle to educate but there definitely should be a discussion about when and how to show it.
To me, it's similar to the racist barman in an Adventure in Space and Time being rude to Waris Hussein. It's realistic for the era, but unpleasant to see and the way it's directed, the audience is encouraged not to like the guy because of it. (Which is a shame, as he's played by famous fan and Big Finish actor Toby Hadoke!)
The dead naming and Sylvia fumbling scenes are essential. This stuff happens. What we need to see was Rose's reactions. Maybe using Beep the Meep as a confidant. That way you could feel her betrayal when the Meep is proved Evil. Similarly the Wrarth should seem more sinister at first. They look weird but they don't look like they could be misunderstood space police. In the comic they decapitate K9 and put a bomb in the Doctor's body. Both paint a picture of something bad you can believe in. Then later on eat cake with Fudge and his mum.
1:30-1:44 Mr Tardis when discussing any piece of Doctor Who media no matter how out of place it looks - “Yes, this is real and I think it’s canon.” Gonna hear that a lot if you cover all Doctor Who sketches on Blue Peter.
The Ninth Doctor defeating a compost bin Dalek with a Blue Peter badge is what happens in between 9 leaving and coming back at the end of Rose, and I will die on this hill.
@17:20. I felt this line was a bit cringy. I almost never post anything even remotely negative (there's already too much negativity in the world), but I was not a fan of the line "something a male-presenting Time Lord would never understand." I really enjoyed the rest of this episode and I'm hyped to see more Rose.❤
Yes, very same. With that I mean each of your statements. I really enjoyed the whole episode until the sexist slip at the end and the kinda cringy resolution. Very sad. I watched that video with the hope of finding a different view on that part that would've helped me to enjoy that episode again. I really love the Meep though. I want one ...
@@quinnastaroth9989 me too. But do you want the cute and innocent version of the Meep or the evil Meep? If Doctor Who created a Meep that could change from one look to the other, I'd buy it in a heartbeat! 😀
I feel that this episode's biggest issues are similar to well, much of Chibnall's era, in that it inherited his unfortunate habit of leaving episodes feeling like several minutes of connective scenes wound up on the cutting room floor, especially during the finale. Whether that was intentionally done for time, or it was just written that way it felt jarring and awkward. I do wish we'd had more scenes with Rose from the mid-point on, to build up to the finale.
There could easily have been a scene after the Meep reveals its true nature, Rose shows how betrayed she feels. Saying "I trusted you! I helped you!" and the Meep simply smiles and replies "Yes, you did, foolish child. And for that I am grateful, so I shall eat you last."
I just replied but this seemed important enough to make a separate comment incase someone comes here to make a comment about this, but the Jordan Peterson comment caught me off guard since that seems like the last thing he would say. However I researched and found that he did in fact make some questionable endorsements of a book called “the bell curve” and has talked about how low IQ means you preform poorly in life, even though poverty lowers your IQ due to environmental changes, instead of your status lowering due to low IQ. He doesn’t seem to know you can change your IQ. “should be mandatory reading for psychology undergraduates” is not a good quote about a book with ties to mass-incarceration and excessive racial prejudice.
We're a few days away from The Giggle, I am personally hoping that all the destiny stuff and how admittedly contrived this story was will be explained as it being the toymakers doing in some way. Even if it's not, it was still a fun time. And any worries about this new era basically vanished after Wild Blue Yonder anyway so we'll see what's going to happen Edit: lol, well that's gonna be my headcanon
tbf the most unbelievable aspect of this whole episode is we're expected to believe rose grew up in london, yet sounds like shes from up north??? Also, i just could not believe she was meant to be a 15 year old, other than that, i thought it was a great, nostalgic story.
What ruined the episode, for me, is the final resolution about the survival of Donna. The explanation that sees Donna saving herself because she inadvertently passed part of her regeneration energy to Rose, clearly stating she had inherited it, doesn't make any sense. Genetic heredity does not work in the way shown in the special: a biological parent passes to their children a copy of their own "features", not a portion of them. It's a copy, not a pouring. Donna should have had the same amount of energy despite having passed it to Rose. I know some people would say _"it's just fiction, not reality"_ , and I generally tend to agree with that instance; but when a basic notion from elementary school is changed and made it pass as an "of course" moment without making clear it is unusual, well... then it's just nonsense. Even for Doctor Who standards. Then, there is the part where Donna and Rose get rid of the energy. On a lore level, it resolves the issue of Romana's multiple regenerations in the _"Destiny of the Daleks"_ episode with the Fifth Doctor (and also River's ability to surrender her regenerative energy), confirming how Time Ladies are able, unlike their male counterparts, to manoeuvre and disperse regeneration energy better. But, as a justification for Donna's salvation, it turns out to be an oiled concept that becomes idiotic when placed next to what I've briefly explained above. Donna realises she can do this by realising Rose is like her too; which makes sense, she didn't know it before but now she realises it by putting one plus one together. The problem here is that it generates two issues, in my regard: - firstly, that retroactively Donna could have spared herself the memory erasure from 15 years earlier if only she had figured out how to do it (which, as far as I'm concerned, makes the Doctor's decision an effective but weak one - and not the only conceivable alternative he had at his disposal); - secondly, and even more serious than the previous one... the Doctor completely ignores how Time Lord biology works. Donna didn't know that she might be able to banish excess energy because the Doctor... the one whose memories, experiences and abilities were passed to Donna... wasn't aware of it. Our Doctor... didn't know... Time Ladies are biologically better in handling regenerations and, in particular, regenerative energy management; and we see this in the special as well, because he is evidently astounded that both Donna and Rose are able to do this. So long for the mighty Time Lord Academy of Gallifrey and its "glorious" education system... *_groan_* I understand he liked to skip classes, running off to do mischief instead of paying attention to his teachers... but this seems too much! It's practically the human equivalent of not knowing what periods are or how they work; too bad we're talking about an alien with an incredible wealth of knowledge, who grew up on one of the most advanced planets in the Milky Way, and not a 'simple' ignorant human being. As stated before, it's just nonsense. Even for Doctor Who standards.
Me and my from our university’s Doctor Who society watched this live and enjoyed every minute of it. In a sense, it felt like we were in 2008 again but in the right way. The Star Beast is super fun story and I feel like it’s one of those calm before the episodes before the massive drama action heats up. Wild Blue Yonder did just that with an emotional character driven piece with great mystery and horror setting between the likes of Midnight and Heaven Sent. The Giggle looks to be all out chaos with Russell going by the new preview might be going into his Years and Years mindset.
27:00 There was a scene cut showing the alien plushies earlier on, so there might be a longer version of this episodes... or, at least some deleted scenes.
I think the star beast was just the necessary step to bring us into this new era without hampering later stories. It had to do character bits with the Noble family and the doctor so that they could clear up the doctordonna before the more interesting episodes, but they needed the core pillar of alien plot to drive that story forward. I suppose Russel decided using an old beloved comic story as that pillar was a good way to celebrate the show's history, and I imagine he always wanted to adapt the story but couldn't think of a good way to slot it in later on. Rose absolutely deserved better though, I feel like her plotline got a bit mangled within all of the threads. It feels like the idea of Donna having a trans daughter was introduced very early on in the writing process to where it was vital to keep in, but it was under-utilised in the final script because of just how much was going on. Kinda funny how the previous era ended on a messy but fun episode and this era starts on a similar note lol
Why are people so ignorant of the variety of reasons that someone might need a wheelchair and that some wheelchair users can in fact move their legs. That's why I absolutely hate putting people in boxes and narrow categories! Like, I'm genderfluid nonbinary, part of the trans umbrella and also the nonbinary umbrella but that doesn't mean that I need to dress androgynously and dye my hair blue with one side short and one side long. People of specific groups are not stereotypes but it seems that people who don't belong to any of these marginalized communities can often only think in stark categories and stereotypes. And even phrasing it like that is generalizing!
I agree about the Rose deus ex machina ... There was no real set up for Rose as a person or that there could be anything that might be more to her internal termoil than her gender identity. And the idea that she has vague memories of things the doctor has and they are refelcted in the toys isn't shown... Like the ones that we see int he shed scene don't really look like anything obvious .. so it's not even a blink and you miss it forshadowing. It kind of should be a rewatch ..oh yeah moment but its not that obvious at all
Good review of the Star Beast! My Dad read the comic back in the 80's and I think this is a good story and I do agree with you on the Wrath Warriors. I do like Meep as the twist villain, and I did not see that coming.
Overall I enjoyed the Star beast but as a 60th anniversary special it feels underwhelming cause the 2 that have aired so far have made people look back on power of the doctor as a better anniversary special actually including past doctors and companions and actually using the master’s plot for the 1996 movie the runtime is the episodes biggest problem cause at 58 minutes the plot does feel rushed in places
Excellent observations! Regarding Rose, I agree that her character felt a bit thin, impacting her final big moment a tad, but it’s obvious the intent was good, so hopefully future audiences won’t cringe. Overall, I’m just happy to see that all the various quibbles don’t seem to have spoilt the episode for most. I enjoyed it.
Watching your review just now has honestly given me more nostalgia than any of the specials so far. Lots of warmly remembered times of watching your Series 5 reviews in 2010 and being somewhat taken away with the depth of your perspective, especially on the workings of media, and how it helped me crystallise my own thoughts about DW, even back when they were < 5 mins. And you've done it again with "The Star Beast", thank you! I too, have regenerated since then with a new persona and perspective on my past, but fonder memories such as those are able to transcend such traumas.
I’m a trans woman, I loved the trans representation and the good demonstration of the family struggling I am genuinely squeeling still since the episode hefhfjrjrj
I’ve also got mobility issues and use my cane or a wheelchair when involved, I’ve loved the proper representation in the episode across trans and disabilityrhfjrjrurjr😊
SPOILER WARNING I'm genuinely sad that I'm not giving this episode a positive rating. I was really looking forward to this but at the moment my enthusiasm for the rest of these specials has dropped. That is a damm shame considering the story potential these stories had. To start off, please *DO NOT* say to, 'Oh they will address that later' because that isn't an excuse for presenting the story in the manner it has been especially with some of the character interactions. 14 is great here but I still don't see how he is different from 10 at all and that is a negative in my book considering that we already have plenty of 10 stories, I was really hoping RTD would do something different with Tennant's range than just oh its 2008 again but with a more inclusive cast. The best scene by far in this episode was the one where 14 asks about Wilf and I just teared up. The 'twist' of him not actually being dead was funny and surprisingly didn't take me out of the story in any way. Donna was wonderful to see again except for the fact that, I still don't know why we needed to see her again. Nothing interesting has been done with her arc, in fact in my view at least at the moment the impact of her ending has been dimished. Sylvia was also wonderful to see surprisingly, her having aged actually hit me very hard. Rose at the moment unfortuantely has no character. She is just like a cardboard slate at the moment, and that is a damm shame considering she has so much potential, hope that she has a lot more scenes in the future that actually develop her character. This story, if what I list below hadn't happened would have been a good story(7/10) with a decently executed doctor who story. Okay so the lines about Rose being trans fall into 2 camps, one being good and the other being horrendously crowbarred in. The initial scene wuth Sylvia misgendering her and the neighbourhood teens being jerks were both good and I was happy about the handling of a trans character uptil that moment. But then we have the garbage line of 'Are you gonna assume pronouns', this is so badly written like just why, why do we have to have this incredibly forced line instead of something subtler like 'He?' and the doctor goes 'Oh yea fair enough, what do you go by Beep'. Don't you see how much better this is?? But the worst offender is the 'Non-binary' scene, I was so disheartned by that scene, because turning those words into this forced garbage genuinely took me out of this story. Especially so when paired with the 'Something a male presenting timelord wouldn't get, just giving it up' That is probably one of the worst moments RTD has ever written given how goddam much it undermines Donna's exit and to almost shield himself from criticism has been written in pseudo-progressive garbage. I hate this, this moment almost kills me. I expected better 'representation' from RTD than this, especially when I've seen 'It's a sin'. I feel so sad that we needed the shoe-horned in line of making some bizzare connection of something as human as gender to regeneration. I hate this. The moment I like are ones where Missy finds the idea of romantic love stupid and earthly or when 12 says 'Gender and its associated stereotypes'. These moments are so so much better than this trash. I do like the 'Male presenting timelord' line though, that is genuinely nice. Overall just sadded that we had to undermine Donna's exit, I'm sure that this isn't the end of her time but even then the mere suggestion that 'She just didn't have to want it or that the doctor just had to understand that she wouldn't want it' is just trash. I'm hoping for improvement. Just feel incredibly bummed out at the moment.
26:55 that's partly because in classic dw the writers contract was that all characters who aren't the Dr or companion belong to the writer not the beeb. This is why Johnny Bryne got money every time Nyssa was in it or same with Nation Davis and peddler with daleks abd cybermen. But in a lot of comic companies the contact was making a character for a company So Douglas Adams could use the Captian Mr Fibuli and Queen Xanxia in Hitchhikers guide to the galaxy. But not the tardis. But if the beeb wanted to bring back the Captian Mr Fibuli and Queen Xanxia they'd need to pay his estate
1:12 yes but badwolf is bbc funded aka is the BBC they just gave it the production credits (its the same team only thing thats changed is Russell is back and disney gave extra funding to stream it to the Americans)
That's a solid interpretation, but not definitive. I actually like this idea, but it needed more resolution. It is a 15 year long plot thread resolved in 15 seconds.
Watched it with my parents and it feels like stepping back into 2008! I love it! This is exactly what I love about Doctor Who condensed into a lovely singular episode! This is what made me a fan in the first place! It's so nice to catch up with Donna again and see what she's been up to! And David Tennant stepping back like he's never left is excellent! This story reminds me of the Archie's Weird Mysteries episode "The Extra Terror-Restrial". It really does feel like the special episode's story was lifted from that one. But no complaints here! This was wonderful and I can't wait to see what's next!
Not only did Big Finish do the story more justice with their direct adaptation in 2019 but their original Meep story the Ratings War from the early 2000s reads like a cry for help from the writers RTD was starting to abuse in the pre-production of the TV remake (see also Jubilee, Zargeus and the One Doctor)
I think you were pretty bang on in this review. When the episode finished, I definitely felt like there was more it could have done. The metacrises being sorted after only the first episode was a surprise to me! I didn't even realise til you pointed it out how little Rose actually featured. Donna and Sylvia's love for her was beautiful, but Rose definitely needed more of a character for the story considering she found the Meep. But I'm hoping in retrospect, with the next review we can get more to her character and it can give a bit of weight to this one
This episode is trying to be an introduction to a new (but familiar) Doctor, a 60th anniversary episode, a continuation/conclusion of a 2008 storyline, and an adaption of a 1980s comic. It's a great episode overall, but it's also trying to do too much at the same time that elements of each kinda get rushed or sidelined.
To be fair to the contrivance of Shirley Anne Bingham evading all the possessed soldiers, we do see that Beep The Meep has put quite a lot of the soldiers on chanting duty, and I personally choose to believe that The Meep would be self-possesed enough to want all of them to do that because I think that's funny.
there's a lot of thing to be cramped in an hour episode, so it's kinda understandable why some threads went loose. I guess RTD very carefully want to focus on Donna & Doctor reunion, so a lot of things must be sacrificed; the problem is, it's not an easy thing to get the same emotional beat in one episode when Doctor & Donna's ending plot was processed in multiple episodes, arguably half a series even. It makes me wish the Star Beast would be the second special instead, but I guess having a new Doctor Special opened with Journey's End-level heavy drama would be out of the question. Last but not least, spot on on the Lupar! Damn I miss that bestest pup.
Hey Donna was just reinforcing what we learned with the first and second Doctors' cybermen stories: Coffee is the cause and sollution to all of the worlds problems.
This is the smartest, well thought out review of this episode I've seen on this platform. Keep up the great work! I look forward to your future reviews!
Here's an idea: use the psychedellic sun energy to help resolve the metacrisis. It fundamentally changes who you are, correct? Drives mundane Meeps into mad, villainous Meeps. Still include Rose and Donna letting go, but under the influence of the psychedllic sun energy in some way, perhaps as it's being pulled away from the all the other humans under its mind control. You still get Rose and Donna making a decision to let go, but it's only a potential under this other rare circumstance (which does have the single narrative purpose of changing how a mind works). It could still come off as a Deus Ex Machina, but I think it works better.
'Wrarth': I believe it's 'rawth', as in 'Fourth Doctor might have saved Cass' Not 'wraith', as in 'Her Eighth Doctor encounter could have gone better' Or 'rahth' as in 'That Hath spent more time as a companion to Martha than she did to McGann' (Admittedly they jump all around the pronunciation in the episode, I just wanted to torture some phrases).
I feel like you could've used the Meep and Doctor connection, both being two hearted creatures who, (at one point at least) were the last of their species, to do some interesting manipulation with the Meep, but it's nothing like that, the Doctor doesn't even show much if any remorse for the Meep when he finds out they're the last of their kind
In the magazines the Meep got put in a zoo as a punishment. That would have been much funnier and interesting to do to the Beep for me and I liked him when he is coloured blue too in the mags. Still good to see the little fella mind.
I WILL BE THE BEEP OF ALL THE MEEPS It felt so good to see Doctor Who done as it was way back in the day. Of course I'm hoping that Russell finds a way to make, 'season one,' feel more original, but feeling his fingerprints on the dialogue of a story with the old faces at the helm, and the proper music for these characters is exactly what this anniversary miniseries ought to be.
@@MrTARDIS Thanks! I got confused because on IMDB I found Joel Collins as the Production Designer of _Hitchhiker's Guide._ But Phil Sims is listed as "Art Director" for that movie - I've got no idea of the different roles they play during the production.
You've pretty well captured my thoughts on the episode. Having all three of the specials out by the time I write this, one observation that really caught me by surprise was how much I like Shirley. She's really freaking cool. I'm going to check out other works Ruth is in.
So I wasn’t going crazy, because if transphobia and dead-naming (which to me is a form of transphobia) wasn’t portrayed then that’s like saying it’s all non-existent which would be completely disingenuous.
I'm happy you took the time to go through this thoroughly rather than emitting yet another hurried half-baked review within mere hours. It has the level of structured writing with an educated opinion on screenwriting, the production and the material at hand (60 years of a major franchise must not be underrated). I hope you are going to review the other anniversary specials as well. They are worth the wait.
I know it's only part 1 of a trilogy but my main criticism is that, like Day of the Doctor, it feels like a celebration of the revived series rather than all of Doctor Who.
I think that’s kind of the tightrope they have to walk. Too little iconography and they disappoint fans. Too much and they put off newcomers. While also crafting a good story. Plus, we already had a massive celebration of Who in “The Power of the Doctor” which featured the show’s three major villains in the Daleks, the Cybermen, and the Master, as well as classic era companions, with even Ian Chesterton getting a cameo, as well as cameos from all the surviving Classic Doctors (barring Tom Baker) and David Bradley. So oddly enough, “The Power of the Doctor” feels a lot more like an anniversary special than the actual anniversary specials.
Tbh star beast i would classify as nu who wild blue yonder seems like the new wave doctor who and the giggle will probably be a love letter to the originals with elements of nu who and the new wave who
@@samuelbarber6177yeah true I mean having the Toymaker is a nice nod to and acknowledgement of the 60 year milestone, I'm not expecting loads of cameos it would be naff.
I'm just glad that the show is fun and upbeat. The Capaldi/Whitacker era just took itself way too seriously. It's like if they brought back Douglas Adams after the 80s.
@captainamerica3067 Jolie s era felt like more of Peters era at times like the witchfinders just felt like a Peter C episode. Plus both eras take themselves superseriously.
Hey, I think you should break down the Hollywood Scholar's videos about Doctor Who viewing figures. I've been in his comment section but he's still in absolute denial. P.S he was one of the guys in that Human Centipede allegory you made the other day.
Really interesting review. Idj if you consider fan theories in regards to other episodes, but when you do Wild Blue Yonder, would you talk about the theory that magic might be added to Doctor Who and your thoughts on that? RTD said in an interview that he wanted to introduce more fantasty elements and the 14th makes a huge deal about the fact he introduced a supersition to the edge of the universe.
Magic, functionally, already exists in Doctor Who. The Doctor has a habit of trying to explain the fantastical as scientific, but in all practical terms, Doctor Who has been firmly Science-Fantasy since the 7th Doctor showed up.
I really like these reviews. They’re like an additional thing to look forward to with every new episode, and they consistently have some very good points elaborated throughout. Keep it up!
As a trans person I actually loved the scenes of deadnaming and the relatives discussing as I found it a highly respectful representation of our realities, makes everything more real and relatable,
It does feel like two separate stories that shouldn't have been put together and were underthought. So many plot elements just made me ask, "Why?" Why make the Meep's space ship devastate a city just by taking off? Why is the ridiculous damage done when it does start to take off magically reversed when it's shut back down? Why even put Beep the Meep in the show if you're not going to treat his earlier appearances as canon, even loosely? Why was the decade-and-a-half metacrisis problem that broke up 10 and Donna solved by "just letting go?" Why do U.N.I.T.'s scientific advisors have personal weapons at all? Why was the sonic screwdriver given magic crayon hologram powers that maintain object permanence, like a children's program... On second thought... (I should add, I did enjoy the character moments, though. Most of it felt organic and in character. None of the actors felt out of touch with their roles.)
I love how we lost a yas who was a generally alright companion and gain a far more enjoyable character better written in my opinion in just one special no offence to yas's actress.
Despite its minor shortcomings watching this episode was the most excited I’ve been watching a Doctor Who episode in a very long time. It’s far from a 10/10 episode it feels like Russell, David and Cathrine never left
Neighbours has the best trans representation imo. Georgie Stone who is trans helped craft the stories, whereas in the Star Beast you can tell it's written by a cis man.
I somehow doubt that if it was the other way around and the show made a jab at a 'woman-presenting' timelord that you'd be as accepting of the dialogue.
One thing I really missed from the comic which would have been more potent here is in the comic Sharon goes ballastic against the Meeps betrayal and it tries to back pedal into being cute again and fails. No such reaction from Rose.
There's no opportunity for that in this adaptation. The Meep holds all the cards until the end, so never needs to. Maybe after it's being taken away, instead of doing that cryptic threat.
fun but compromised is a massive leap forward from the unfun and comprimised of the last five years. It's like night and day, I actually smiled for the first time since world enough and time.
I've enjoyed both episodes unreservedly...we watched The Star Beast the following day on the repeat and I just felt that there wasn't a dead moment anywhere in the story...
It actually really annoyed me the bit where the doctor reflects on wilf because I didn't know they'd got him back to do a scene for the next special, so when he was was sat there sad that he'd died I really felt that because of the fact Bernard Cribbins is sadly no longer alive, but then they're all like you idiot he's not dead he's in some home, felt really wrong to bait my emotions like that.
Same here. I had heard the news that Bernard Cribbins had passed, but did not know the actor was still alive as of shooting that scene. So, I thought it was wrong to play up the character's death as joke. But I was wrong. But in the teaser for The Giggle, we never see a clear shot of Wilf, and I think it's a double even though the story seems to resume moments afterwards.
Interesting point about Rose not getting enough material. But you can already tell what the grifters would say if she was given more to do "Doctor gets cucked in his own story" Ps. Thanks for the "fucking pronouns" bit. I laughed too hard.
I straight up didn't notice Rose was trans watching the show so was completely confused when the end happened as without that context it made even less sense. On the rewatch, espec after seeing online comments about the plot, the episode was alot better. 100% agree on Rose needing more time to develop, it almost felt like the episode had a two parter amount of characters, plot and moving parts but only a single episodes runtime.
I don't always agree with your thoughts (we disagree wildly with you dislike of allot of moffats era, which I love) however I think I agree with literally every single point you make in this video. Awesome work. Keep it up. Mr TARDIS for show runner.....
So. In dead-naming/misgendering, not trans, but I have trans friends. And have accidentally misgendered newly uncloseted trans people. So, I feel I can speak on the topic. To qoute the show, “just let it go”. It will take time for people to get used to a change in their life and their language. And mistakes are human. People need to understand that mistakes aren’t the end of the world. Apologize, move on, and try todo better in the future. And it’s important to let people know that this isn’t the end of the world (unless it becomes a pattern of negative behavior). As for the asshole teenaged boys dead naming rose. That needs to be depicted too. Just to model assholish behavior, and let people know it’s wrong. It’s about learning and trying to be better.
I did enjoy the special and l could feel the best of RTD coming from it but the metacrisis removal was a cop out in my opinion. I am hoping that by the end of the The Giggle, Donna will somehow be wipe of her memory again, possibly by the toymaker out of revenge just so the ending of series 4 won't always be tainted for me.
“Boys Don’t” Cry” is a great example of people turning against what was once thought to be humane. PS watching this video, have a shot every time you hear the word “representation”.
This was a good adaptation of the original comic though I prefer the original. I'm headcanoning that the Time War changed events so the original story no longer happened and this is the new version of the event.
I honestly found this episode quite dull. Almost a hangover from the Chibnall episodes, with a clunky script and pacing. Didn't feel it at all. I really enjoyed the Wild Blue Yonder though, best episode in years.
I feel that I finally understand the perspective critics had about Survivors of the Flux and The Vanquishers, but for this episode. I just don't like it. The negatives are just too many and too strange. If it weren't for Wild Blue Yonder being probably the best episode since Heaven Sent, I'd be seriously concerned about this new era. I normally wouldn't mind a bad episode, but its specifically because its from RTD that I don't understand. He's arguably one of the greatest LGBT creators the UK has ever seen, and his handling of LGBT topics feels so clumsy. While the Doctor asking the Meep's pronouns was a good moment, framing it so it seems like the only reason the Doctor bothers is because the trans woman brings it up feels odd. RTD must have known how controversial this episode would be, and placed all that conservative hate on Yasmin Finney's shoulders. That AFTER he magicked away 13's clothes so David Tennant wouldn't recieve bad press from those same conservatives, it just feels clumsy. This extends to WBY where the Doctor tells the gender of an alien from just its skeleton. Fine scene on its own, but surely he must have known how it could be viewed? There's a line between being unapologetic and clumsy IMO. The line about a "male-presenting timelord" is just bad. It feels Moffat-y. It's not about gender here, it SHOULD be about the 10th Doctor specifically not understanding. Gender essentialism is bad no matter if its about a man. Using the term "male-presenting" does not change the harmful ideology behind that message. It's not only a harmful message, but it just clashes with the story. The interpretation of the Doctor as a gender-fluid, non-binary concept is cool but then they reduce it so 13 was "the woman doctor" and 14 is "the man doctor" is just bad. I don't think it's just a friendly jab, because Rose also says it and the episode itself treats it as correct. But of course, the very fact we even have such unapologetic LGBT representation and discussion is a billion years beyond what anyone else is doing, and that alone is a truly wonderful feeling. To see this from the BBC's leading drama is wonderful. But maybe it's silly to say, but I didn't expect Eve of the Daleks to resonate with me more than an RTD script in this regard. I also didn't really appreciate the music. And if it weren't for WBY, I would have questioned why Gold was back at all. Just overall it was a very strong mission statement from Russell and the rest of the production team, but It could have done with a few more passes to make it work as an actual episode IMO.
Have to disagree on your analysis of Murray Gold's work on the specials. His work 15 years ago compared to his work in this first special is night and day different approaches to scoring. Where Series 1-9 had bombastic, swashbuckling, heroic up front melodies and scoring, Gold tuned down so much of that in Series 10 and the specials. If anything, his music was incredibly restrained in these specials, to an annoying degree in some regards. Themes like Donna, The Doctor, The Doctor Forever, and Gallifrey are hardly written in full and are played quietly and softly; this creates a really unsatisfying relationship with the music and almost gives off the vibes that Gold (or whoever asked him to score like this) is scared to fully commit to these old themes. It seems Gold is trying to get the music to march in step with Segun Akinola's style of writing as to keep a level of musical consistency.
I would be interested in an extended cut of The Star Beast as well. These specials should get longer runtimes, if needed. Go 90 minutes if need be. Rose Noble needs more development. The Meep needed more development. Cut all that corny recap time and rewrite it so the exposition comes naturally.
You don’t need 10 years of hindsight to look back and realise this dialogue is cringe. The fault is writing the character as representation rather than as a well written character. How can you add character when the main focus of the approach is representation? How can a character have faults when people will assume those faults are supposedly intended to be representative of all those that the character represents. So, instead we’re left with these faultless watered down people which I think is actually more offensive.
18:00 I'm sorry but Nah if it was the other way round saying about women and a female doctor you would be ranting aboutit, but because its about men its ok to belittle them because for some reason you can't be sexist against men I'm just sick of all the men bashing, especially the straight white male bashing
I am a male presenting human. If you think a statement made directly against my gender identity is all about me... Well I have watched and shared your videos for years. I have watched Doctor Who since before The Time Warrior. I'd don't need derogatory statements from either to treat people as equals. Thank you very much. Please stop.
![เป็นไปได้ไหม - WanMai [Performance Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Eh5hItD4Mr0/mqdefault.jpg)
I love the scene of Mirian Margolyes voice acting in character looking so sad and pathetic. It gives me begger vibes and you just feel bad for her. What a legend.
Theory
What if he isnt actually saying "Beep" but is in fact having swear words being concerned by the BBC everytime he cussed in the episode?
it's saying meep
... perhaps it's "The Swear Beast"
@@jesebsp"I am the beep of all the meeps"
I thought it was rather fun. It’s got some issues, but, honestly, for a special that’s what I expected. You don’t expect Midnight or Dalek for a special. You expect The Runaway Bride. This episode had some cracking humour, some good explosions and a nice familiar sense of Doctor Who. It’s clear that Tennant and Tate haven’t lost anything in the years apart from the show, and Davies still has a good sense of what makes Who Who. My only issues were some of it felt a bit underwritten, especially Rose, who had a great start but ended up as more of a plot device.
Jacqueline King’s also hilarious in this.
Anniversary specials are usually a big deal (unless you count Silver Nemesis) this was like another Christmas Special.
@@Concreteowl to be fair, we did technically have a massive one last year.
King was awesome!! Rose could have used a bit more screen time to better flesh out the character and more adequately respond to Beep the Meep comments and other moments. I also had an issue with the super sonic screwdriver. Maybe just cut out some concrete from the home instead of creating a temporary barrier? Just an idea, though maybe not the best...but I'm not paid to be a writer.
An observation I've heard talking to those In the LGBT community is that they really shouldn't have tried tying in Rose's gender into the plot resolution. Maybe others in the community feel differently, but I can understand some not being comfortable with trans identity being treated as something special and magical, however, well intentioned that may seem on the surface.
I don't think Rose being trans had anything to do with being special and magic. The impression I got was that the Meta Crisis would have been inherited by any of Donnas kids regardless of gender, Rose just happened to also be trans. She says "nonbinary" because the Meta Crisis becomes 3 people instead of the binary 2 people it was originally. It's possible she is also nonbinary and the scene had a double meaning, but I really don't think the Meta Crisis made her that way or that her being trans/enby gave her some magical power over the Meta Crisis.
@@tatsudragneel4761 but then there's the lines about 'binary, non-binary, all', it does get muddy.
She's called Rose and makes aliens in a blue box. It's made clear Rose is Rose because of the Metacrisis.
@@theshadowdirector The scene after does get a bit muddled, they say that the 2 of them are "binary" and then say "she's not" when she's added to the Meta Crisis, and then they go on about the Doctor being "Male and female. And neither. And more." It seems more like they're being a little metaphorical at the end, because the Meta Crisis is connecting Donna (a women), the Doctor (in a male incarnation) and Rose (a trans/enby person). If Rose's gender was influenced by the Doctor she would be genderfluid, but the episode (while doesn't state her identity specifically) implies she's at most trans fem enby. Rose also says "I'm finally me" after she's let go of the Meta Crisis, she no longer has the Doctor and Donnas memories in her subconscious, yet she's still trans/enby.
@@Concreteowl The Meta Crisis and the Doctor/Donnas memories influenced her subconsciously, no one is saying otherwise. But that doesn't mean it made her trans. She says she finally feels herself after letting go of the Meta Crisis energy, and is still trans. I highly doubt RTD is going to write Rose de-transitioning at the end of The Giggle.
The Meta Crisis didn't make Donna trans/nonbinary, and she had the same stuff in her subconscious and subconsciously tried to be "like the Doctor" like Rose did.
19:14 As a trans person myself (obviously I can only speak for myself here - I'd like to know other trans people's opinion tho. Feel free to comment under this if you like), I think scenes of deadnaming and family members talking about their struggles to accept their child's or grandchild's actual self should be shown on principle to educate but there definitely should be a discussion about when and how to show it.
To me, it's similar to the racist barman in an Adventure in Space and Time being rude to Waris Hussein. It's realistic for the era, but unpleasant to see and the way it's directed, the audience is encouraged not to like the guy because of it. (Which is a shame, as he's played by famous fan and Big Finish actor Toby Hadoke!)
The dead naming and Sylvia fumbling scenes are essential. This stuff happens. What we need to see was Rose's reactions. Maybe using Beep the Meep as a confidant. That way you could feel her betrayal when the Meep is proved Evil. Similarly the Wrarth should seem more sinister at first. They look weird but they don't look like they could be misunderstood space police. In the comic they decapitate K9 and put a bomb in the Doctor's body. Both paint a picture of something bad you can believe in. Then later on eat cake with Fudge and his mum.
1:30-1:44 Mr Tardis when discussing any piece of Doctor Who media no matter how out of place it looks - “Yes, this is real and I think it’s canon.”
Gonna hear that a lot if you cover all Doctor Who sketches on Blue Peter.
The Ninth Doctor defeating a compost bin Dalek with a Blue Peter badge is what happens in between 9 leaving and coming back at the end of Rose, and I will die on this hill.
@17:20. I felt this line was a bit cringy. I almost never post anything even remotely negative (there's already too much negativity in the world), but I was not a fan of the line "something a male-presenting Time Lord would never understand." I really enjoyed the rest of this episode and I'm hyped to see more Rose.❤
Yes, very same. With that I mean each of your statements. I really enjoyed the whole episode until the sexist slip at the end and the kinda cringy resolution. Very sad. I watched that video with the hope of finding a different view on that part that would've helped me to enjoy that episode again. I really love the Meep though. I want one ...
@@quinnastaroth9989 me too. But do you want the cute and innocent version of the Meep or the evil Meep? If Doctor Who created a Meep that could change from one look to the other, I'd buy it in a heartbeat! 😀
I feel that this episode's biggest issues are similar to well, much of Chibnall's era, in that it inherited his unfortunate habit of leaving episodes feeling like several minutes of connective scenes wound up on the cutting room floor, especially during the finale. Whether that was intentionally done for time, or it was just written that way it felt jarring and awkward. I do wish we'd had more scenes with Rose from the mid-point on, to build up to the finale.
There could easily have been a scene after the Meep reveals its true nature, Rose shows how betrayed she feels. Saying "I trusted you! I helped you!" and the Meep simply smiles and replies "Yes, you did, foolish child. And for that I am grateful, so I shall eat you last."
I just replied but this seemed important enough to make a separate comment incase someone comes here to make a comment about this, but the Jordan Peterson comment caught me off guard since that seems like the last thing he would say. However I researched and found that he did in fact make some questionable endorsements of a book called “the bell curve” and has talked about how low IQ means you preform poorly in life, even though poverty lowers your IQ due to environmental changes, instead of your status lowering due to low IQ. He doesn’t seem to know you can change your IQ. “should be mandatory reading for psychology undergraduates” is not a good quote about a book with ties to mass-incarceration and excessive racial prejudice.
We're a few days away from The Giggle, I am personally hoping that all the destiny stuff and how admittedly contrived this story was will be explained as it being the toymakers doing in some way. Even if it's not, it was still a fun time. And any worries about this new era basically vanished after Wild Blue Yonder anyway so we'll see what's going to happen
Edit: lol, well that's gonna be my headcanon
Nope. Bi-generation instead of an explanation. Haha.
tbf the most unbelievable aspect of this whole episode is we're expected to believe rose grew up in london, yet sounds like shes from up north??? Also, i just could not believe she was meant to be a 15 year old, other than that, i thought it was a great, nostalgic story.
Maybe her meta crisis involved the 9th Doctor’s personality subtly influencing her?
I’m shaking like a leaflet in anticipation
What ruined the episode, for me, is the final resolution about the survival of Donna. The explanation that sees Donna saving herself because she inadvertently passed part of her regeneration energy to Rose, clearly stating she had inherited it, doesn't make any sense. Genetic heredity does not work in the way shown in the special: a biological parent passes to their children a copy of their own "features", not a portion of them. It's a copy, not a pouring. Donna should have had the same amount of energy despite having passed it to Rose.
I know some people would say _"it's just fiction, not reality"_ , and I generally tend to agree with that instance; but when a basic notion from elementary school is changed and made it pass as an "of course" moment without making clear it is unusual, well... then it's just nonsense. Even for Doctor Who standards.
Then, there is the part where Donna and Rose get rid of the energy.
On a lore level, it resolves the issue of Romana's multiple regenerations in the _"Destiny of the Daleks"_ episode with the Fifth Doctor (and also River's ability to surrender her regenerative energy), confirming how Time Ladies are able, unlike their male counterparts, to manoeuvre and disperse regeneration energy better.
But, as a justification for Donna's salvation, it turns out to be an oiled concept that becomes idiotic when placed next to what I've briefly explained above.
Donna realises she can do this by realising Rose is like her too; which makes sense, she didn't know it before but now she realises it by putting one plus one together.
The problem here is that it generates two issues, in my regard:
- firstly, that retroactively Donna could have spared herself the memory erasure from 15 years earlier if only she had figured out how to do it (which, as far as I'm concerned, makes the Doctor's decision an effective but weak one - and not the only conceivable alternative he had at his disposal);
- secondly, and even more serious than the previous one... the Doctor completely ignores how Time Lord biology works. Donna didn't know that she might be able to banish excess energy because the Doctor... the one whose memories, experiences and abilities were passed to Donna... wasn't aware of it.
Our Doctor... didn't know... Time Ladies are biologically better in handling regenerations and, in particular, regenerative energy management; and we see this in the special as well, because he is evidently astounded that both Donna and Rose are able to do this.
So long for the mighty Time Lord Academy of Gallifrey and its "glorious" education system... *_groan_*
I understand he liked to skip classes, running off to do mischief instead of paying attention to his teachers... but this seems too much!
It's practically the human equivalent of not knowing what periods are or how they work; too bad we're talking about an alien with an incredible wealth of knowledge, who grew up on one of the most advanced planets in the Milky Way, and not a 'simple' ignorant human being.
As stated before, it's just nonsense. Even for Doctor Who standards.
Me and my from our university’s Doctor Who society watched this live and enjoyed every minute of it. In a sense, it felt like we were in 2008 again but in the right way.
The Star Beast is super fun story and I feel like it’s one of those calm before the episodes before the massive drama action heats up. Wild Blue Yonder did just that with an emotional character driven piece with great mystery and horror setting between the likes of Midnight and Heaven Sent. The Giggle looks to be all out chaos with Russell going by the new preview might be going into his Years and Years mindset.
27:00 There was a scene cut showing the alien plushies earlier on, so there might be a longer version of this episodes... or, at least some deleted scenes.
I hope so. This episode could be improved quite a bit with some additional scenes.
I think the star beast was just the necessary step to bring us into this new era without hampering later stories. It had to do character bits with the Noble family and the doctor so that they could clear up the doctordonna before the more interesting episodes, but they needed the core pillar of alien plot to drive that story forward. I suppose Russel decided using an old beloved comic story as that pillar was a good way to celebrate the show's history, and I imagine he always wanted to adapt the story but couldn't think of a good way to slot it in later on.
Rose absolutely deserved better though, I feel like her plotline got a bit mangled within all of the threads. It feels like the idea of Donna having a trans daughter was introduced very early on in the writing process to where it was vital to keep in, but it was under-utilised in the final script because of just how much was going on.
Kinda funny how the previous era ended on a messy but fun episode and this era starts on a similar note lol
Why are people so ignorant of the variety of reasons that someone might need a wheelchair and that some wheelchair users can in fact move their legs. That's why I absolutely hate putting people in boxes and narrow categories!
Like, I'm genderfluid nonbinary, part of the trans umbrella and also the nonbinary umbrella but that doesn't mean that I need to dress androgynously and dye my hair blue with one side short and one side long. People of specific groups are not stereotypes but it seems that people who don't belong to any of these marginalized communities can often only think in stark categories and stereotypes. And even phrasing it like that is generalizing!
I agree about the Rose deus ex machina ... There was no real set up for Rose as a person or that there could be anything that might be more to her internal termoil than her gender identity. And the idea that she has vague memories of things the doctor has and they are refelcted in the toys isn't shown... Like the ones that we see int he shed scene don't really look like anything obvious .. so it's not even a blink and you miss it forshadowing. It kind of should be a rewatch ..oh yeah moment but its not that obvious at all
Good review of the Star Beast! My Dad read the comic back in the 80's and I think this is a good story and I do agree with you on the Wrath Warriors. I do like Meep as the twist villain, and I did not see that coming.
Overall I enjoyed the Star beast but as a 60th anniversary special it feels underwhelming cause the 2 that have aired so far have made people look back on power of the doctor as a better anniversary special actually including past doctors and companions and actually using the master’s plot for the 1996 movie the runtime is the episodes biggest problem cause at 58 minutes the plot does feel rushed in places
Excellent observations! Regarding Rose, I agree that her character felt a bit thin, impacting her final big moment a tad, but it’s obvious the intent was good, so hopefully future audiences won’t cringe. Overall, I’m just happy to see that all the various quibbles don’t seem to have spoilt the episode for most. I enjoyed it.
Watching your review just now has honestly given me more nostalgia than any of the specials so far. Lots of warmly remembered times of watching your Series 5 reviews in 2010 and being somewhat taken away with the depth of your perspective, especially on the workings of media, and how it helped me crystallise my own thoughts about DW, even back when they were < 5 mins. And you've done it again with "The Star Beast", thank you!
I too, have regenerated since then with a new persona and perspective on my past, but fonder memories such as those are able to transcend such traumas.
The best shot in the entirety of the 60th is Sylvia seeing the doctor for the first time in years going ‘You!’
I’m a trans woman, I loved the trans representation and the good demonstration of the family struggling I am genuinely squeeling still since the episode hefhfjrjrj
I’ve also got mobility issues and use my cane or a wheelchair when involved, I’ve loved the proper representation in the episode across trans and disabilityrhfjrjrurjr😊
SPOILER WARNING
I'm genuinely sad that I'm not giving this episode a positive rating. I was really looking forward to this but at the moment my enthusiasm for the rest of these specials has dropped. That is a damm shame considering the story potential these stories had.
To start off, please *DO NOT* say to, 'Oh they will address that later' because that isn't an excuse for presenting the story in the manner it has been especially with some of the character interactions.
14 is great here but I still don't see how he is different from 10 at all and that is a negative in my book considering that we already have plenty of 10 stories, I was really hoping RTD would do something different with Tennant's range than just oh its 2008 again but with a more inclusive cast.
The best scene by far in this episode was the one where 14 asks about Wilf and I just teared up. The 'twist' of him not actually being dead was funny and surprisingly didn't take me out of the story in any way.
Donna was wonderful to see again except for the fact that, I still don't know why we needed to see her again. Nothing interesting has been done with her arc, in fact in my view at least at the moment the impact of her ending has been dimished.
Sylvia was also wonderful to see surprisingly, her having aged actually hit me very hard.
Rose at the moment unfortuantely has no character. She is just like a cardboard slate at the moment, and that is a damm shame considering she has so much potential, hope that she has a lot more scenes in the future that actually develop her character.
This story, if what I list below hadn't happened would have been a good story(7/10) with a decently executed doctor who story.
Okay so the lines about Rose being trans fall into 2 camps, one being good and the other being horrendously crowbarred in. The initial scene wuth Sylvia misgendering her and the neighbourhood teens being jerks were both good and I was happy about the handling of a trans character uptil that moment. But then we have the garbage line of 'Are you gonna assume pronouns', this is so badly written like just why, why do we have to have this incredibly forced line instead of something subtler like 'He?' and the doctor goes 'Oh yea fair enough, what do you go by Beep'. Don't you see how much better this is??
But the worst offender is the 'Non-binary' scene, I was so disheartned by that scene, because turning those words into this forced garbage genuinely took me out of this story. Especially so when paired with the 'Something a male presenting timelord wouldn't get, just giving it up' That is probably one of the worst moments RTD has ever written given how goddam much it undermines Donna's exit and to almost shield himself from criticism has been written in pseudo-progressive garbage. I hate this, this moment almost kills me. I expected better 'representation' from RTD than this, especially when I've seen 'It's a sin'. I feel so sad that we needed the shoe-horned in line of making some bizzare connection of something as human as gender to regeneration. I hate this. The moment I like are ones where Missy finds the idea of romantic love stupid and earthly or when 12 says 'Gender and its associated stereotypes'. These moments are so so much better than this trash. I do like the 'Male presenting timelord' line though, that is genuinely nice.
Overall just sadded that we had to undermine Donna's exit, I'm sure that this isn't the end of her time but even then the mere suggestion that 'She just didn't have to want it or that the doctor just had to understand that she wouldn't want it' is just trash.
I'm hoping for improvement. Just feel incredibly bummed out at the moment.
26:55 that's partly because in classic dw the writers contract was that all characters who aren't the Dr or companion belong to the writer not the beeb. This is why Johnny Bryne got money every time Nyssa was in it or same with Nation Davis and peddler with daleks abd cybermen.
But in a lot of comic companies the contact was making a character for a company
So Douglas Adams could use the Captian Mr Fibuli and Queen Xanxia in Hitchhikers guide to the galaxy. But not the tardis. But if the beeb wanted to bring back the Captian Mr Fibuli and Queen Xanxia they'd need to pay his estate
1:12 yes but badwolf is bbc funded aka is the BBC they just gave it the production credits (its the same team only thing thats changed is Russell is back and disney gave extra funding to stream it to the Americans)
" for i am the beep of all the meeps"
( 5:28 ) 2010 in The End of Time Part 2. 👍🏻
17:53 I think it was meant to be that now that Rose and Donna share that power, it's manageable enough for them to let it go.
That's a solid interpretation, but not definitive. I actually like this idea, but it needed more resolution. It is a 15 year long plot thread resolved in 15 seconds.
OK, but that's not what they *said*. What they said was woman=able to relinquish power. Which is just not a thing.
@@PetersonZF but that’s all played as a joke it seems
@@brewster_4 But they do it. Can't just be a joke if it ostensibly works!
Watched it with my parents and it feels like stepping back into 2008! I love it! This is exactly what I love about Doctor Who condensed into a lovely singular episode! This is what made me a fan in the first place! It's so nice to catch up with Donna again and see what she's been up to! And David Tennant stepping back like he's never left is excellent! This story reminds me of the Archie's Weird Mysteries episode "The Extra Terror-Restrial". It really does feel like the special episode's story was lifted from that one. But no complaints here!
This was wonderful and I can't wait to see what's next!
Not only did Big Finish do the story more justice with their direct adaptation in 2019 but their original Meep story the Ratings War from the early 2000s reads like a cry for help from the writers RTD was starting to abuse in the pre-production of the TV remake (see also Jubilee, Zargeus and the One Doctor)
I think you were pretty bang on in this review.
When the episode finished, I definitely felt like there was more it could have done.
The metacrises being sorted after only the first episode was a surprise to me!
I didn't even realise til you pointed it out how little Rose actually featured.
Donna and Sylvia's love for her was beautiful, but Rose definitely needed more of a character for the story considering she found the Meep.
But I'm hoping in retrospect, with the next review we can get more to her character and it can give a bit of weight to this one
This episode is trying to be an introduction to a new (but familiar) Doctor, a 60th anniversary episode, a continuation/conclusion of a 2008 storyline, and an adaption of a 1980s comic. It's a great episode overall, but it's also trying to do too much at the same time that elements of each kinda get rushed or sidelined.
To be fair to the contrivance of Shirley Anne Bingham evading all the possessed soldiers, we do see that Beep The Meep has put quite a lot of the soldiers on chanting duty, and I personally choose to believe that The Meep would be self-possesed enough to want all of them to do that because I think that's funny.
How can some TH-cam channels can use moving images from the BBC and others get flagged for copyright infringement?
there's a lot of thing to be cramped in an hour episode, so it's kinda understandable why some threads went loose. I guess RTD very carefully want to focus on Donna & Doctor reunion, so a lot of things must be sacrificed; the problem is, it's not an easy thing to get the same emotional beat in one episode when Doctor & Donna's ending plot was processed in multiple episodes, arguably half a series even. It makes me wish the Star Beast would be the second special instead, but I guess having a new Doctor Special opened with Journey's End-level heavy drama would be out of the question.
Last but not least, spot on on the Lupar! Damn I miss that bestest pup.
22:04 Where's that intervirew from? I can't find it on TH-cam.
It was from the Star Beast's respective Doctor Who Unleashed episode.
Set design this episode was great apart from the lack of stuffed animals in the shed.
Hey Donna was just reinforcing what we learned with the first and second Doctors' cybermen stories: Coffee is the cause and sollution to all of the worlds problems.
This is the smartest, well thought out review of this episode I've seen on this platform. Keep up the great work! I look forward to your future reviews!
Here's an idea: use the psychedellic sun energy to help resolve the metacrisis. It fundamentally changes who you are, correct? Drives mundane Meeps into mad, villainous Meeps. Still include Rose and Donna letting go, but under the influence of the psychedllic sun energy in some way, perhaps as it's being pulled away from the all the other humans under its mind control.
You still get Rose and Donna making a decision to let go, but it's only a potential under this other rare circumstance (which does have the single narrative purpose of changing how a mind works). It could still come off as a Deus Ex Machina, but I think it works better.
The judge's wig bit reminded me so much of the wind-up mouse in The Doctor's Daughter! 🤣
I loved the Meep he was so cute but I’d never heard of the Starbeast before so when Beep turned evil I got a shock
'Wrarth':
I believe it's 'rawth', as in 'Fourth Doctor might have saved Cass'
Not 'wraith', as in 'Her Eighth Doctor encounter could have gone better'
Or 'rahth' as in 'That Hath spent more time as a companion to Martha than she did to McGann'
(Admittedly they jump all around the pronunciation in the episode, I just wanted to torture some phrases).
Wrarth... Good Gawd... What are they good for??
@@Concreteowl Abso-Beepin'-nuthin!
I’m loving the Cass roasts
I feel like you could've used the Meep and Doctor connection, both being two hearted creatures who, (at one point at least) were the last of their species, to do some interesting manipulation with the Meep, but it's nothing like that, the Doctor doesn't even show much if any remorse for the Meep when he finds out they're the last of their kind
In the magazines the Meep got put in a zoo as a punishment. That would have been much funnier and interesting to do to the Beep for me and I liked him when he is coloured blue too in the mags. Still good to see the little fella mind.
A very balanced view. Well thought out.
I WILL BE THE BEEP OF ALL THE MEEPS
It felt so good to see Doctor Who done as it was way back in the day. Of course I'm hoping that Russell finds a way to make, 'season one,' feel more original, but feeling his fingerprints on the dialogue of a story with the old faces at the helm, and the proper music for these characters is exactly what this anniversary miniseries ought to be.
In 28:55 you say Phil Simms would be production designer, isn't is Joel Collins?
Joel Collins is the Exec Producer. Phil Sims is the Production Designer.
@@MrTARDIS Thanks! I got confused because on IMDB I found Joel Collins as the Production Designer of _Hitchhiker's Guide._ But Phil Sims is listed as "Art Director" for that movie - I've got no idea of the different roles they play during the production.
You've pretty well captured my thoughts on the episode. Having all three of the specials out by the time I write this, one observation that really caught me by surprise was how much I like Shirley. She's really freaking cool. I'm going to check out other works Ruth is in.
This argument that we shouldn’t show transphobia on screen just seems so strange to me
So I wasn’t going crazy, because if transphobia and dead-naming (which to me is a form of transphobia) wasn’t portrayed then that’s like saying it’s all non-existent which would be completely disingenuous.
I'm happy you took the time to go through this thoroughly rather than emitting yet another hurried half-baked review within mere hours. It has the level of structured writing with an educated opinion on screenwriting, the production and the material at hand (60 years of a major franchise must not be underrated). I hope you are going to review the other anniversary specials as well. They are worth the wait.
I know it's only part 1 of a trilogy but my main criticism is that, like Day of the Doctor, it feels like a celebration of the revived series rather than all of Doctor Who.
I think that’s kind of the tightrope they have to walk. Too little iconography and they disappoint fans. Too much and they put off newcomers. While also crafting a good story. Plus, we already had a massive celebration of Who in “The Power of the Doctor” which featured the show’s three major villains in the Daleks, the Cybermen, and the Master, as well as classic era companions, with even Ian Chesterton getting a cameo, as well as cameos from all the surviving Classic Doctors (barring Tom Baker) and David Bradley. So oddly enough, “The Power of the Doctor” feels a lot more like an anniversary special than the actual anniversary specials.
Tbh star beast i would classify as nu who wild blue yonder seems like the new wave doctor who and the giggle will probably be a love letter to the originals with elements of nu who and the new wave who
@@samuelbarber6177yeah true I mean having the Toymaker is a nice nod to and acknowledgement of the 60 year milestone, I'm not expecting loads of cameos it would be naff.
I'm just glad that the show is fun and upbeat. The Capaldi/Whitacker era just took itself way too seriously.
It's like if they brought back Douglas Adams after the 80s.
@captainamerica3067 Jolie s era felt like more of Peters era at times like the witchfinders just felt like a Peter C episode. Plus both eras take themselves superseriously.
I HATED that just let it go bit. Didn't make a whole lot of sense to me but it certainly wasn't a bad episode. Just not quite what i expected
They need to make a meep toy right away
Hey, I think you should break down the Hollywood Scholar's videos about Doctor Who viewing figures. I've been in his comment section but he's still in absolute denial.
P.S he was one of the guys in that Human Centipede allegory you made the other day.
Really interesting review. Idj if you consider fan theories in regards to other episodes, but when you do Wild Blue Yonder, would you talk about the theory that magic might be added to Doctor Who and your thoughts on that? RTD said in an interview that he wanted to introduce more fantasty elements and the 14th makes a huge deal about the fact he introduced a supersition to the edge of the universe.
Magic, functionally, already exists in Doctor Who. The Doctor has a habit of trying to explain the fantastical as scientific, but in all practical terms, Doctor Who has been firmly Science-Fantasy since the 7th Doctor showed up.
Like radio waves, it was bound to get there eventually.
The meep is talking to the Dalek plush tho 🤔
I did go through the footage to double check. It looks similar to the Dalek plush but it's not.
Life is pointless, time is an expression of our experience of entropy...Happy Christmas
I really like these reviews. They’re like an additional thing to look forward to with every new episode, and they consistently have some very good points elaborated throughout. Keep it up!
23:58 that got a good laugh out of me
3:44 what do you mean thread the needle?
Donna is trying to find her missing memory is and is close to achieving it, but it's a very difficult task.
As a trans person I actually loved the scenes of deadnaming and the relatives discussing as I found it a highly respectful representation of our realities, makes everything more real and relatable,
It does feel like two separate stories that shouldn't have been put together and were underthought. So many plot elements just made me ask, "Why?" Why make the Meep's space ship devastate a city just by taking off? Why is the ridiculous damage done when it does start to take off magically reversed when it's shut back down? Why even put Beep the Meep in the show if you're not going to treat his earlier appearances as canon, even loosely? Why was the decade-and-a-half metacrisis problem that broke up 10 and Donna solved by "just letting go?" Why do U.N.I.T.'s scientific advisors have personal weapons at all? Why was the sonic screwdriver given magic crayon hologram powers that maintain object permanence, like a children's program...
On second thought...
(I should add, I did enjoy the character moments, though. Most of it felt organic and in character. None of the actors felt out of touch with their roles.)
I love how we lost a yas who was a generally alright companion and gain a far more enjoyable character better written in my opinion in just one special no offence to yas's actress.
Despite its minor shortcomings watching this episode was the most excited I’ve been watching a Doctor Who episode in a very long time. It’s far from a 10/10 episode it feels like Russell, David and Cathrine never left
Neighbours has the best trans representation imo. Georgie Stone who is trans helped craft the stories, whereas in the Star Beast you can tell it's written by a cis man.
Ruth Madeley is a Sixth Doctor Companion already?! Wow nice :D
She was already a 6th Doctor companion before the 60th Anniversary
@jaytender4949 Yeah I meant it as in she was ready a companion in Big Finish before being it on the TV Show😅
I somehow doubt that if it was the other way around and the show made a jab at a 'woman-presenting' timelord that you'd be as accepting of the dialogue.
Damn, I'd have a different opinion if it was something different?
Also, I didn't even like the line here so I'm not sure what your point is here?
One thing I really missed from the comic which would have been more potent here is in the comic Sharon goes ballastic against the Meeps betrayal and it tries to back pedal into being cute again and fails. No such reaction from Rose.
There's no opportunity for that in this adaptation. The Meep holds all the cards until the end, so never needs to. Maybe after it's being taken away, instead of doing that cryptic threat.
@@dirrdevil that would be the perfect time. its where it happens in the comic.
i agree with your theory on planet bedtime stories
fun but compromised is a massive leap forward from the unfun and comprimised of the last five years. It's like night and day, I actually smiled for the first time since world enough and time.
I like The Star Beast
I've enjoyed both episodes unreservedly...we watched The Star Beast the following day on the repeat and I just felt that there wasn't a dead moment anywhere in the story...
I really love your political insight into the episode.
26:30 what a wonderful shot. You just know David knows who these two legends are. Hopefully the kids will find out about 2000AD and Judge Dredd now.
It actually really annoyed me the bit where the doctor reflects on wilf because I didn't know they'd got him back to do a scene for the next special, so when he was was sat there sad that he'd died I really felt that because of the fact Bernard Cribbins is sadly no longer alive, but then they're all like you idiot he's not dead he's in some home, felt really wrong to bait my emotions like that.
Same here. I had heard the news that Bernard Cribbins had passed, but did not know the actor was still alive as of shooting that scene. So, I thought it was wrong to play up the character's death as joke. But I was wrong.
But in the teaser for The Giggle, we never see a clear shot of Wilf, and I think it's a double even though the story seems to resume moments afterwards.
Interesting point about Rose not getting enough material. But you can already tell what the grifters would say if she was given more to do "Doctor gets cucked in his own story"
Ps. Thanks for the "fucking pronouns" bit. I laughed too hard.
I straight up didn't notice Rose was trans watching the show so was completely confused when the end happened as without that context it made even less sense. On the rewatch, espec after seeing online comments about the plot, the episode was alot better. 100% agree on Rose needing more time to develop, it almost felt like the episode had a two parter amount of characters, plot and moving parts but only a single episodes runtime.
Strong jawline
I don't always agree with your thoughts (we disagree wildly with you dislike of allot of moffats era, which I love) however I think I agree with literally every single point you make in this video. Awesome work. Keep it up. Mr TARDIS for show runner.....
So. In dead-naming/misgendering, not trans, but I have trans friends. And have accidentally misgendered newly uncloseted trans people. So, I feel I can speak on the topic. To qoute the show, “just let it go”. It will take time for people to get used to a change in their life and their language. And mistakes are human. People need to understand that mistakes aren’t the end of the world. Apologize, move on, and try todo better in the future. And it’s important to let people know that this isn’t the end of the world (unless it becomes a pattern of negative behavior).
As for the asshole teenaged boys dead naming rose. That needs to be depicted too. Just to model assholish behavior, and let people know it’s wrong.
It’s about learning and trying to be better.
I did enjoy the special and l could feel the best of RTD coming from it but the metacrisis removal was a cop out in my opinion. I am hoping that by the end of the The Giggle, Donna will somehow be wipe of her memory again, possibly by the toymaker out of revenge just so the ending of series 4 won't always be tainted for me.
No, that seems worse. Amnesia, fix amnesia, bring back amnesia.
“Boys Don’t” Cry” is a great example of people turning against what was once thought to be humane. PS watching this video, have a shot every time you hear the word “representation”.
This was a good adaptation of the original comic though I prefer the original. I'm headcanoning that the Time War changed events so the original story no longer happened and this is the new version of the event.
Good review and good points 💯💯💪💪
I honestly found this episode quite dull. Almost a hangover from the Chibnall episodes, with a clunky script and pacing. Didn't feel it at all.
I really enjoyed the Wild Blue Yonder though, best episode in years.
very realistic coverage great job!
I feel that I finally understand the perspective critics had about Survivors of the Flux and The Vanquishers, but for this episode. I just don't like it. The negatives are just too many and too strange. If it weren't for Wild Blue Yonder being probably the best episode since Heaven Sent, I'd be seriously concerned about this new era.
I normally wouldn't mind a bad episode, but its specifically because its from RTD that I don't understand. He's arguably one of the greatest LGBT creators the UK has ever seen, and his handling of LGBT topics feels so clumsy. While the Doctor asking the Meep's pronouns was a good moment, framing it so it seems like the only reason the Doctor bothers is because the trans woman brings it up feels odd.
RTD must have known how controversial this episode would be, and placed all that conservative hate on Yasmin Finney's shoulders. That AFTER he magicked away 13's clothes so David Tennant wouldn't recieve bad press from those same conservatives, it just feels clumsy. This extends to WBY where the Doctor tells the gender of an alien from just its skeleton. Fine scene on its own, but surely he must have known how it could be viewed? There's a line between being unapologetic and clumsy IMO.
The line about a "male-presenting timelord" is just bad. It feels Moffat-y. It's not about gender here, it SHOULD be about the 10th Doctor specifically not understanding. Gender essentialism is bad no matter if its about a man. Using the term "male-presenting" does not change the harmful ideology behind that message. It's not only a harmful message, but it just clashes with the story. The interpretation of the Doctor as a gender-fluid, non-binary concept is cool but then they reduce it so 13 was "the woman doctor" and 14 is "the man doctor" is just bad. I don't think it's just a friendly jab, because Rose also says it and the episode itself treats it as correct.
But of course, the very fact we even have such unapologetic LGBT representation and discussion is a billion years beyond what anyone else is doing, and that alone is a truly wonderful feeling. To see this from the BBC's leading drama is wonderful. But maybe it's silly to say, but I didn't expect Eve of the Daleks to resonate with me more than an RTD script in this regard.
I also didn't really appreciate the music. And if it weren't for WBY, I would have questioned why Gold was back at all.
Just overall it was a very strong mission statement from Russell and the rest of the production team, but It could have done with a few more passes to make it work as an actual episode IMO.
Have to disagree on your analysis of Murray Gold's work on the specials. His work 15 years ago compared to his work in this first special is night and day different approaches to scoring. Where Series 1-9 had bombastic, swashbuckling, heroic up front melodies and scoring, Gold tuned down so much of that in Series 10 and the specials.
If anything, his music was incredibly restrained in these specials, to an annoying degree in some regards. Themes like Donna, The Doctor, The Doctor Forever, and Gallifrey are hardly written in full and are played quietly and softly; this creates a really unsatisfying relationship with the music and almost gives off the vibes that Gold (or whoever asked him to score like this) is scared to fully commit to these old themes. It seems Gold is trying to get the music to march in step with Segun Akinola's style of writing as to keep a level of musical consistency.
Glad to finally see someone properly roast that bizarrely shit opening
I agree with everything you just said
I would be interested in an extended cut of The Star Beast as well. These specials should get longer runtimes, if needed. Go 90 minutes if need be. Rose Noble needs more development. The Meep needed more development. Cut all that corny recap time and rewrite it so the exposition comes naturally.
Am I misunderstanding, or did you imply that it’s the Tories fault that Donna gave away her lottery winnings and is back to financial hardship?
Literally? No.
Meta-textually? Yes.
You don’t need 10 years of hindsight to look back and realise this dialogue is cringe. The fault is writing the character as representation rather than as a well written character. How can you add character when the main focus of the approach is representation? How can a character have faults when people will assume those faults are supposedly intended to be representative of all those that the character represents. So, instead we’re left with these faultless watered down people which I think is actually more offensive.
18:00 I'm sorry but Nah if it was the other way round saying about women and a female doctor you would be ranting aboutit, but because its about men its ok to belittle them because for some reason you can't be sexist against men
I'm just sick of all the men bashing, especially the straight white male bashing
I am a male presenting human. If you think a statement made directly against my gender identity is all about me... Well I have watched and shared your videos for years. I have watched Doctor Who since before The Time Warrior. I'd don't need derogatory statements from either to treat people as equals. Thank you very much. Please stop.
Also Rose isn't Non-Binary she's a woman
I'm not an expert in these things, but I think the term is "trans-feminine non-binary." It's just more complicated than that.