New Icom X60 Mystery Radio - What Could It Be?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 พ.ค. 2024
- Announced at Dayton Hamvention 2024 - @IcomAmericaInc showed off a new "Icom X60" concept model leaving many to wonder - what could it be?
Let's have a look to see if we can find any clues.
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This is the best X60 coverage I've seen so far. Everyone who was there obviously didn't have time to do this much analysis so you've got one good thing out of not going :)
The one thing it will definitely be is expensive.
Work for it.
That’s correct most VKs won’t be able to afford it cause they are too cheap 😂
@@thunderc4s Miserable tight bastards most of them
Another Icom b oat anchor 😀 😀
I say, up dated version Icom 7100 with a waterfall.
I have been saying on all the other videos that it's a 7851 replacement. 200 Watt output, dual receiver circuits, 4 antenna ports. On the antenna board there are actually 8 relays. 4 big black ones and 4 smaller white/cream colored ones. The connector you couldn't name is a Taiko Denki TMP connector. The only thing that throws me for a loop is the accessory board with snap out daughter boards. They only show 4 controls, 2 double controls with push button, one double control and a rotary encoder, headphone jack board and SD card board. That's basically what a 7300 / 9700 have. I "assume" they just are not showing anything else to keep people guessing. They are also not showing the tact switch boards (push button) circuit boards. If we could see how many push buttons it has that would be a huge giveaway as to how big the faceplate would be.
I agree
Who's to say they didn't toss in some random boards from other radios to throw people off track.
@@bb_37 I have not seen any of the boards that they displayed in any radio I have worked on before. I have had the covers off of pretty much every radio ever made and currently made by any of the big three amateur radio manufacturers. The only exception could be the accessory control board that has the snap out daughter boards for three dual controls, rotary encoder, headphone jack and SD card slot. Those daughter boards could be used in any number of current and previous radios.
For the transistor not having HF info in datasheet, well, that's sort of the norm. If you take a look at the datasheets for transistors in IC-7300, they also don't have much HF info. My guess is that the actual HF frequencies aren't really all that interesting to the RF world in general any more.
For the missing markings on the chips, well, those chips look like they have the RF shielding material on top of them. Such material can be also seen in IC-7300 and IC-9700 too, but there they have larger pieces, instead of the smaller ones covering only the chips.
Also, the IC-7851 has been discontinued in Europe for a several years already.
Id like to think this was indeed a deliberate exercise to engage in some discussion with ideas from other amateur operators to gauge some extra input into design. Car manufacturers do something similar with concept cars at motor shows.
To solve that mystery around the DVI Port. Icom has a strict and fundamental rule not to pay ANY licences fees. In reality, the licence for HDMI costs 20$ct, whereas the DVI connector costs significant more. But, japanese companies have strict rules with no exclusions
10:24 Those are lan jacks, given away by the ATPL-361R chips right behind each of them. My guess would be these go to external transverter modules to add SHF/Microwave bands like with the IC-905.
I think you're right. And the phono plugs are used for AV in/out on the 905 as well. Although I do think one of the RJ45s is for IP. And the connect board that was in the front right of the display case is for an IP connected flex maestro like remote unit. The motherboard also has the same DIN connectors as the 905 for the shf modules. It makes sense to have a base unit that can further utilize those components to increase sales.
No signs of Yaesu coming up with an SDR qrp rig yet.... More chance of seeing Half Life 3 at this point.
OK, I'm placing my bet that is the following: It is a direct competition for the Flex 8000 and Anan 7000/G2 radios. It is an 18 bit dual ADC chain stand-alone 200W SDR. Yes, a black box. Beyond the circuit boards, you have to look at the market. They are fully capable of matching or beating Flex and Anan at their own game. They recently added pre-distortion to the 7610 and it will be in this radio. The only area where they will need to really work is the noise blanker and the DNR circuits. Anan is the leader in this and it will be hard to beat. I think price class will be between $2700-$3200. On the upper end with an ATU. A control head with knobs may be offered like the Maestro...but later. Bet I'm right!
That board with 4 large coax connector lands needs a big rear panel like the 7850.The 7850 was the 50th anniversary model released a decade ago. My bet is that this is its refresh, likely called the IC-7860. It will be the 60th anniversary model to tackle the hugely popular FTdx101.
Here comes the 4-5 thousand dollar Icom radio!
The button battery is the size of a 2032, much bigger than the tiny battery in the 7300 , and this is easily replaceable.
The 7300 battery is a pain in the butt to replace.
As someone said in the comments here, the 7300 battery is soldered into the board. But at least on this concept model it’s a button battery holder
@@HamRadioDX Yes the fix you see people doing to the 7610 and the 9700 is to replace the internal battery with a button battery. That battery is recharged so this is a good thing.
HDMI can supply the radio with voltage back and can blow stuff up. There was a video on it a while ago from one of the manufacturers... apparently. Lol
IC-X60. 200w 160m-6m, 100w VHF/UHF, 25W 1.2GHz, all mode, 10k MSRP. 9100 replacement with optional D-Star module $1k USD. Or maybe I’m just hopeful lol
+1 I am with you but LDMOS could be broadband enough for 100 on 2m and 75 on 70cm. around 8k ish
Plus SHF and microwave via add on transverters.
I can't believe I didn't see this at Hamvention 🤦♂️. I spent a lot of time talking to Wayne Burdick N6KR and him taking apart the radio to show me how much he squeezed into that tiny radio (the KH1)..
Thanks for doing this deep dive into the x60. Interesting stuff.
👍
It’s the ic705mk2 QRO Edition.
With the optional tuner, MSRP 26,999.95. With the optional expansion board you can insert your credit/debit card right into the radio (don’t worry you won’t be needing it anymore) and it’ll siphon your monthly subscription right off your account (Icom will be using this model to introduce their new Ham Radio As A Service pricing model…)
😛 /s
The HDMI organization is a real PITA. They like to make life hard for manufacturers. Even if it was free (as in gratis) to use it would still be unappealing. If you need to use HDMI you can use a cheap adapter.
The problem is that DVI has been deprecated for a decade now. "Just use an adapter," is actually getting quite difficult these days, and DVI doesn't support modern resolutions. A better -- and more future-proof -- solution would be video out via USB-C, which makes more sense from a "use an adapter" standpoint.
@@N0LSD yeah DVI isn't ideal. Display port would be the lowest friction option if it was more ubiquitous. I actually think USB-C is a good option even without an adapter. There's a lot of USB-C native displays and it's display port running through USB-C so an "adapter" is really just a cable.
Its obiously a new HF SDR based rig The filter gives it away rather than that driver..you can use a higher freq LDMOS at lower frequency....Icom need to get rid of the IC-7100 and make a good HF/VHF/UHF mobile prefferably SDR based and something that you can actually mount the head in a car. Not like the 7100 head
Yaesu said the same thing about HDMI, but even incredibly small volume devices have it. I think its like 50 cents per unit. There really is no excuse for it these days
Cost more than that plus they have to pay the licensing fee every year. HDMI connectors are also extremely fragile. The main reason all military displays still use DVI, they are very robust. I have had to replace numerous HDMI connectors. I have never in my life replaced a DVI connector. I'll take DVI over HDMI any day of the week. Plus, having to deal with the HDMI organization from a manufacturers standpoint is a nightmare. HDMI can go suck it. 🙂
@@mikesradiorepair actually it costs less. 15 US cent per product.
@@MySuperhappyfuntime You seem to forget the $5,000 to $10,000 annual licensing fee that must be paid EVERY year. Want to put the logo on the radio, have to pay for that every time. Want to put the logo in product brochure's, have to pay for that on every piece of paper it's on. For low quantity manufacturers like amateur radio companies it adds a lot to the BOM. HDMI sucks anyhow. It's probably the most fragile video/audio interface made. DVI is much more robust which is why the military/DOD still uses it on all their monitors. And from the manufacturers standpoint I don't blame them for not wanting to pay for the privilege to use it. Much less have to deal with the HDMI organization.
@@mikesradiorepair It's actually cheaper per device if you put the logo on it
IC-7860
Yep
I’m a Icom dealer and even I’m in the dark on this one.
This was a great marketing trick to keep customers attention on ICOM and away from other makes .... If I had to guess I would say this looks like a new top if the range MF - HF - 70Mhz.
Another thought is ICOM approaching 60 years of being in business? In which case this could be a limited sales 60th year edition of the 7851. "7860" perhaps?
73 Ed.
Ed - spot on.
The button battery is NOT on the 7300. The 7300 battery is soldered on the board. Button battery is much better!
Ahh yes true! Button battery holder in the X60 👍
Display port (Dp) does not have the license. And, DVI is more rugged. Not aeronautical rugged, but it will survive rougher handling than HDMI or Dp.
What you called an unmarked CPU may be an FPGA, which could include a CPU. But the heatsink is interesting. Could be a CPU or an FPGA.
Too big for anything less than a "7860". The 4 antenna connectors are like the 7851. Yeah, IC-7851 replacement.
And, DVI connectors have thumbscrews so you can secure it against falling out at inopportune times.
Yeah, that big unmarked chip is definitely an Intel xilinx fpga. I'm guessing the main CPU is probably arm cuz I didn't see any supporting Intel chips on it
And by main CPU I mean the one with a heatsink
I would love it to be a 7100 update, with remote head like a 705/905, sdr tech etc etc. However 200w, dvi, and 4 multiantenna ports make it unlikely... hmmm
New 7860 flagship HF 4 6 base 200w very expensive big box radio.
The IC 7851 was the 50 year anniversary at one point so this might be the 7851 60th anniversary
THE 7850 IS THE 50TH NOT THE 7851
Very interesting 🤨 I agree with ur assessment 7860😬☺️
DVI is an industrial standard, HDMI is a "Consumer" standard. The US Military in fact still orders new computers and monitors with DVI as a requirement. It's robust and far more durable and has better shielding than a HDMI or DP port does. Also easier to fix cables, and make custom cables for.
However DVI is on its way out now and Displayport is the standard of today. Some says that USB-C will come up to take care of video too and you see it on newer laptops where the docking station is connected with USB-C carrying display data and even using Thunderbolt.
Displayport connectors also exists with locking - push in a button on the cable end of the connector to retract the locking hooks, but some are cheaping out and don't have the locking hooks - but in an office it won't matter much.
Displayport is license free, HDMI requires you to sign up for a license if you want to use it.
From what I can see it's an expanded version of the 7100! its gonna be a hf to 1 gig radio!
Imagine!
That would be the ultimate dream❤
7:32 That "only one" might be two. There's plenty of LDMOS devices that incorporate two into a single case. ST makes a few of those like the RF3L05150CB4. This won't be the device used in the X60 but its datasheet is nice and includes interesting pictures and descriptions for this technology.
(Sing along) How much is that Icom in the window? (dit dit) The one with the missing detail. (dit dah) How much is that Icom in the window? (dit dit) I'll mortgage my ham shack today. (dah dit)
OMG.. Icom really know how to market! Everyone will be surprised at Japanese HAM show 😀
it has 3 Ethernet jacks, maybe in ic7100 replacement with external Display via Ethernet. Hopefully with VHF/UHF, then we got a deal.
Just look at the back of the 7851 and compare ports to see what's what, and what's different.
Modern displays and computers are using Displayport. HDMI is on the way out, DVI is grandfather level and VGA is Great Grandfather level.
A supercap is only good for a while but could help you keep your settings while changing battery.
@10:26 There are two RJ45 Ethernet ports, DC port, 1/4" headphone jack, two RCA, two XLR plugs, USB-B, and I'm assuming a reset button. So the logic board requires a power supply and has RJ45, yet so does the main board. I believe this is a two box setup.
Remote head or something? Maybe something similar to the 905
I definitely have high hopes.
That J102 socket on the antenna switch PCB is a connector for transferring RF from one PCB to another - you can see it in every multi-PCB radio, and that RCA is a PTT out for remote devices like power amps - taking it out of the ACC socket is a painful experience.
Sounds like a hybrid exercise between teasing the market for ideas and getting HAM's to suggest a feature set for their next radio. Note that one of the chips on the main board is a USB 3.0 interface buffer - not much sense for control/audio (don't need that bandwidth) but would be an excellent idea if delivering a connection to a PC to operate as an SDR.
On the antenna relay board - J101 is to power the relay. J102 is an antenna port. Robert KD4YDC
Looking at the power board I was surprised the PA was not a push pull so I doubt it’s 200w. Looking at the form factor it could be a mobile.
As soon as I saw this I knew this couldn’t be a replacement for a 7610 because I don’t think all those boards could fit into something like that. I immediately suspected it was a replacement for the 7851. I had missed the 200W on the PA board so as soon as you showed this in the video it sort of reinforced my speculation on this. To me it would make sense that Icom would release a new flagship radio on their 60th anniversary.
Maybe a 9100 replacement
Just so you know, Raspberry Pi made a deal with HDMI licensing because the original idea was to get a computer into the hands of those that can't afford one.
All in one remote radio VP8A
73
I would guess that it is the same concept as the IC-905 but for an high end, high power all bands transceiver.
I was at the show and looked it over, but your analysis is awesome and indepth. Many things I did not see. I think it is a HF radio with a remote-able head via Cat6 cable. However the possible 4 Antenna outputs throws me a bit. 4 different antennas would lead me to believe a new high end radio? If it is not 4 HF outs, does it do 2 meter and 70 centimers as well? Time will tell
Yes I had another look after release of the video and I now suspect a remoteable head too! Perhaps building off what they have done with the 905?
Have the remote head in the shack and the body out closer to the antenna?
I'm thinking it's going to be a higher powered 9700/905 based on that driver
My thoughts about this is: a 200W - HF with 100W - VHF/UHF support up to 1.2GHz? High End... Not cheap.
DVI is more robust. This is a 7851 replacement base radio...A "SDR" version of the IC 7851..
I'm guessing all mode kick-ass rig. Guessing exxy, but hopefully not too exxy.
It's all PsyOps!
X60 will be a replacement for 76xx maybe 6xxx in a slightly less featured form, 7300 is due to tech refresh, maybe see a 7310 come out next year using newer sdr thinking and better duty cycle for transmitter.
I think it's a Kenwood 😃
Alonf 7300, 705 there is also 7100 back in production
Maybe this is a new kit.😂👍
Imperial Star Path Unit
I think it is a replacement for the 7851. That said the 7851 is out of pocket range for most hams. This makes me wish it had been a 7610 replacement or upgrade to a 200-watt radio with a few more bells and whistles. This might increase their sells making it fall into the pocketbook range of more hams than the current 7851.
Why not Video over USB-C ? I'll never deal with bulky DVI adaptors again!
Oh my yes, concern over a bulky connector on a 17 inch x 6 inch x 17 inch 50 pound monster radio.
Radio companies dont forget that most people live paycheck to paycheck so we cant afford really anything over 1000 dollars even that price could take us a while to come up with. Its important for businesses to sell a lot of stuff, not 1 or 2 here or there. Now i know you get what you pay for but again the economy and inflation and so many dont have great credit and lots of money laying around to buy a radio that cost anywhere from 5000 to 26000 dollars. Also they take forever to come up with a new radio. New phones come out once or twice a year. Id love to enjoy a high tech radio but ill never have thousands of dollars laying around.
HDMI is about 10 times the cost of DVI licensing that’s the reason and it’s all to do with how many they think they’ll manufacture
Yeah, I'm sure that HDMI license fee is going to seriously cut into the profit on a $15k radio.
It’s a Radio with computer integrated .
1:45 DVI to HDMI Converter - NXT Technologies NX50637 0.5' HDMI/DVI-D Video Adapter, Black, from Staples 3 USD.
IC-7651: 200W ?
Noo transceiver😮
Who knew?
Is it NEW?
an updated 7300 that does 200 watts out?
they will take my money if it's priced right.
This is a 7851 replacement. It'll be far north of 10 kilobucks.
Yep
Licensing fee
This is to compete with the Flex Radios. Software controlled.
Either way, I will stick with my qcx mini, 5w cw which worked France from zl earlier, what more is required in our simple hobby. 73 zl3xdj.
Icom IC-7760
It's a 7860. Start saving your pennies. You'll need over a million of them.
This is really not even much of a mystery at this point. It is clearly the 7851 replacement. The question is how current will the SDR in the sense of a Hybrid SDR with roofing filters, etc. One other interesting point could be if they make it up to VHF/UHF/SHF. That would be a pretty big shack in the box.
Who really wants or needs these over sized radios. Who really wants or has the money to spend thousands.
The market is flooded with HF radios, yaesu has a stack of them, tons of SDR options etc.
Let's see an upgraded with 7610, add 8 and 4M bands or 100w IC705 with 4M.
How about the replacement ic7100?
I know! I know! I know! I know! I know! I know! I know! Overpriced.
It's interesting with all the ethernet ports on it
So those extra ports I could see in the photo were extra Ethernet? 🤔
@@HamRadioDX no your right. Rj45 connectors.
@@AA0Z Ethernet cables use RJ45 connectors.
@@mikesradiorepair yes. I know but I was wrong in assuming it was ethernet. It could be any protocol that uses up to 4 pair.
Yes, but each of those RJ45 connectors have LED lights on them. The link light and activity light
The HDMI Fee Structure
High-volume (more than 10,000 units) HDMI Adopter Agreement - $10k/year.
Low-volume (10,000 units or less) HDMI Adopter Agreement - $5k/year + flat $1/unit administration fee.
The annual fee is due upon the execution of the Adopter Agreement, and must be paid on the anniversary of this date each year thereafter.
The royalty fee structure is the same for all volumes. The following variable per-unit royalty is device-based and not dependent on number of ports, chips or connectors:
US$0.15 for each end-user licensed product.
US$0.05 - If the HDMI logo is used on the product and promotional material, the per-unit fee drops from US$0.15 to US$0.05. Use of HDMI logo requires compliance testing.
US$0.04 - If HDCP is implemented and HDMI logo is used, the per-unit fee drops further from US$0.05 to US$0.04.
Display Port
DisplayPort Product (without regard to number of DP applications in a single product) $0.20
Maximum royalty/year/legal entity $7,000,000
Do you have to pay both the adopter agreement fee and the royalty fee for HDMI?
Yes.
@@xeobit2781 And worse yet you have to deal with the HDMI organization for the privilege of using their fragile connector.
Its a up grade 7610 big deal... they did same crap with the Pro series. This new radio I think is going to be there flagship radio to replace the 7851 My dollar to your dime bet. to be called 7651..or 7660 SDR....no one going to spend $10K for HF radio these days Price guess $3999. ................Icom 7651 SDR. or 7660 SDR
7860
Who cares? It'll be too expensive anyway!
That's for certain.
"What are your thoughts?"
Uhm, well, you clearly don't really know what you are looking at or talking about 😂😂😂
Also another way of asking what others opinions are, if there is something I missed there champion
Very poor roll out of a product. I am not at all interested or impressed in the stupid game they are playing. Look here is a box of resistors and capacitors ouuu cool no thanks. You can keep your Sand box. Not interested
I think its going to be an all band sdr rig. Likely something to try and blow the doors off the Yaesu FT-710.
Cool