@@bananaballistics What you got also going is Pointed or Spitzer versus Wad Cutter or Conical. Sharp points cut and are made to penetrate through targets, whereas Wad Cutters and Conicals are made to dump their energy right after hitting the targets.
The .17 HMR is definitely no slouch. A .17 caliber bullet, the size of a .177 caliber pellet. Penetrating a 1/4 in of mild steel, is quite impressive. Great video brother. Love the channel.
Something that folks should remember, is that the bullet type will affect your penetration. Those hollow points are designed to expand upon hitting a hard/firm surface vs the first .17HMR had a point that's designed for going deep into the target, regardless of the hardness. Those rounded nose .22s on the other hand, are designed to give you a more kinetic mass that gives you an in-between of the hollow point and the pointed (but given enough gunpowder will penetrate just as deep). So if you want a more accurate comparison, always remember to keep the bullet type the same when possible.
I have all 3 and I LOVE my 17HMR. I bought mine in 2003 when I was home on leave and it was a new thing back then. I got lucky and bought the Marlin 17V which turned out to arguably be the best platform for that cartrdge! I taught my sons how to shoot with that rifle
I've been waiting for someone with all three or Atleast 22wmr and 17hmr. I got a question I'd really appreciate you answering; We know 17hmr would perform better ballistically but how about a 100 yard coyote shot. I dropped one with a side shoulder shot from 22wrm but I'm wondering could a 17hmr do it? Could it do it better? And while you're at it I'd love to know whichof the two is louder? Thank you, brother
I did an insane amount of testing on this cartridge on my Marlin and would be have valuable information if I were making videos of that back then@@wasntme3651
@@wasntme3651 I believe you, brother. You can do even better than that with a nice airgun. I'm concerned with terminal performance at that 100yd and beyond. I'd sure appreciate experience and any help on this one.
I would have to set up a calibrated sound meter for that. As far as the most effective at 100 yards, there are numerous 17HMR loads that I've used in my testing going back to 2004. There are several different types of polymer tips from different manufacturers, FMJ and Hollow Points as well. FMJ were the least accurate according to my testing. As far as power, that can be figured out fairly closely using velocity and BC@@abadran8174
One thing us airgunners know is that .22 out penetrates .25, and .177 out penetrates .22 when shooting slugs(bullets) from our high power airguns. It's sometimes referred to as the "ice picking" effect. Less frontal area for similar energy= more penetration.
@@Krobear So for comparison, a 40 grain .22 bullet @ 950fps will penetrate far less than a 40 grain .177 bullet @ 950 fps. We like to stay under the transonic range with our slugs(bullets), as that's where best BC and lest wind drift are for lower powered projectiles.
@@michaelforrester9963 I'm in the US! You should check out some of the current high powered PCP airguns, I have a .30 cal that shoots a 50 grain bullet at around 1000 fps. Pretty fun.
The tests against the wood, steel and ballistic gelatin makes clear that a .HMR and .22 rim fires are not to be underestimated in their ability to kill.
I avoided 22LR for the longest time, and 17HMR even longer…but when I found 17WSM the scales fell from my eyes. Now I’m a rimfire junky. Centrefire is still where I live, but it’s fun to step out for a little strange every now and again. Cheers from Canada.
@@britishbulldog8966 - I looked at one several months ago and a friend said great as long as you don't want to shoot it, LOL.. Obviously meaning the scarcity of ammo. So, I have not bought one as yet and will have to stick with the .17 HMR. I do have a .204 Ruger (CZ 527 Varmint) so I'll live, LOL. Cheers...
I used to shoot 17HMR as my primary short range varmint gun, but any wind can really throw that light bullet around. 22 WMR bucks the wind better and I've switched to 22 mag. But when it comes to accuracy, .22 LR is hard to beat. There's been decades of development of precision 22LR ammo. Pick your cartridges based on what you need.
You have one of the best, if not the best channels for testing different calibers of ammo. I click every time I see one. Keep up the great work, i always enjoy watching and seeing the results 👍👍👍
Thanks for making the point about not relying on rimfire. I tend to get maybe 1 dud in 10k rounds plinking and hunting. But don't forget that defensive rounds also get a lot of movement, moisture, and temperature variation as you carry them, potentially knocking the priming compound out of the rim.
It's the only Speer type projectile of course it's going to penetrate deeper than a hollowpoint .22lr and a wadcutter .22wmr. It really isn't even a half ass comparison, all 3 are completely different compositions and type of projectile with vastly different designs. All this video did was show you how a .17hmr of that factory load performs in that wooden medium
@@francislutz8027 The variances in bullet styles isn't the fault of the presenter of this video. It's a manufacturer thing. 22LR comes mostly in solid lead, sometimes that lead is hollow, sometimes coated in copper. Every 17 round available these days is either a hollow point or a ballistic tip with the odd fmj or flat nosed jacketed "spire point". The 22 mag comes in a wider choice with hollow points, soft points , ballistic tips, etc. The reason for this is you can't drive solid lead bullets to the magnum level velocity that the 22 mag and 17hmr produce. Thats why their bullets are copper jacketed. To give a true apples to apples comparison, you'd have to shoot all 3 with ammo that doesn't exist.
I have a 22 and a 22 magnum rifle. I never thought to get a 17 caliber but because of this video I will probably buy one now. Thank you for the knowledge.
There was no knowledge in this video. All 3 factory loads have vastly different projectiles, of course the hardest metal with the most conical shape .17hmr is going to outperform a hollowpoint .22lr and a wadcutter .22wmr
Wow! I didn't expect these results.. I'd have bet the farm .22WMR would be freeway exits ahead of either of the other two. Looks like I'm sleepin' on .17HMR! I definitely got taken to school with this video!
A super-easy way to see into clear ballistics gel: pour a little water over the top surface of the gel and then place a piece of clear acrylic or polycarbonate on it. This makes the rippled surface of the gel 'disappear' and gives you a clearer look into the center.
Lot of people don't realize a .22wmr rifle has the same fpe (power) as a compact 9mm pistol with basic ammo- they are both in the low 300fpe range. Also, on soft targets, .22wmr penetrates much further than .17hmr lol.
That's because 17hmr dumps it's energy faster and does more damage. .22 bullets have a habit of going straight through a small critter, 17hmr splatters them and doesn't go any further. Typical behaviour of a small high velocity projectile vs a heavier slower moving one producing similar energy.
I have a RUGER 96/22 magnum lever gun (yes, RUGER once made a few lever guns) and a RUGER Single Six with a 22 mag cylinder always in it. .22 WMR is a very powerful rimfire cartridge. Not up to 5.7 x28 but still powerful.
We love the 17 home I have taken down coyotes at 260 yds with it . We have not got the .22 out of the safe since getting 17 hmr in over 12 years. Thank you very much for this video Don And Donna north idaho
Hmm, are you sure about the 260 yards? A 17hmr round at that range would probably have less than 50 lbs-ft of energy. That's pretty light for a coyote sized varmint. Heck, it's light even for a wood chuck. Where did you hit your coyote? The eternal or the temple area?
I'm a Remington 5mm man as still have my rifle from 1971 and lots of ammo and not going to run out anytime soon.. 22Mag beat it out and 5mm went obsolete. But at the time period, the 5mm bullet was superior to 22Mag as they were still just using the same bullets as 22LR. Having a 5mm, the ammo was 5x more expensive and my dad forced me to buy my own, we learn shot discipline and not out shooting everything like the 22LR guys so. I love the loud crack of 5mm
Aguila makes the 5mm with a 30 gr bullet. Original Rem 5mm were 38 gr. Aguila rounds are fine in my rifle and can take care of my woodchuck problem when needed!
Aguila made. Haven't seen any in years. Unfortunately my first firearm, Remington 591, and about 2000 rounds of the Aguila ammo were lost in a house fire four years ago. I sure miss that rifle; it was hell on coyotes.
Kudos to you sir!!! My first rifle, that I worked hard through the summer to earn money for, was a Remington Model 591 magazine fed 5mm Remington Magnum. I found it in a local gunsmith/dealer's gun rack and immediately fell in love with it. My father allowed me to purchase this rifle and I felt like I could take on any animal on any continent with it. I owned it for several years, but finding ammo for it was difficult and the price at nearly $6.00 per box of 50 rounds, was a bit above my budget as a young person. I still own 1/2 box of original Remington ammo for it. Dear Lord, I loved that little rifle!!! Thank you for the memories.
Loves me some .17 HMR. It's just an inexpesnsive Savage 93R17 with the Heavy Barrel. But the dang thing is surgically accurate! I have no further desire to fire any .22 LR since acquiring the .17 HMR.
Glad my favorite rimfire (22 WMR) made a halfway good showing. I ordered and received a few of the Banana Ballistics t-shirts. A big hit at the gun range. I forgot to order a sticker for my range box.
ME TOO - THE 22 MAG WITH 40 GR SOLIDS IS A KILLER -- BUT I DO HAVE A 17 HMR TOO -- BUT USE THE 22 MAG EXCLUSIVELY ON ARMADILLOS -- WORKS BETTER THAN THE 17 IN MY EXPERIENCE
I'm not a fan of the 17. I know there are some big fans for this round. I just know I went head to head with a few who worshipped this round. And beat them every time in the real world of taking game in all kinds of rough weather.
@@rob6850 ah that is some peak fud lore, no bullet bounces around inside of a body because its full of liquid, it will ricochet at least once and travel in roughly a straight line unless it is going very fast in which case it may curve inside of a body.
Mr. Banana - In '61Panama, they had Killer Salty, that ate Panamanians & Indians, so sent out 4 Govt Hunters, & only 1 came back, scared shtless. Bounty of 15G put on it, Dad joined w/boyhood Buddy, a Canal Electrician for 6 night hunt. They were cleanin' their 12GA fishin' rigs, when reminded 'em I had perfect night vision. Quick, .22 long rifle HP borrowed from Maid's Hubby, & the 3 of us went out, & I chambered .22 round in 22" barreled deck gun, & at 12:45, I had company! It looked like sub surfacing, but actually, just the head part w/eyes stuck out, but it was silent & huge! We were usin' 1,2,click to hit light, so at "click" I fired, leaving croc w/o movement! Dad's Buddy jumped in Chagres River yelling "Life Preservers & Rope", in middle of night! We got back in late havin' to bum some Mix, as couldn't make it, but both banks full of helpers. Canal Zone Fish Cop happy to check Croc, & it was 34' 7" long X 8' 6" wide, & Croc had parts of his Buddies inside, so "The Boys" got their Croc!! Back at home @dawn, Cacklers(Wives)were all abuzz, as some brave sole finally got that Croc...it's all over the News! Dad & Buddy like twins said, "That's nice", and all 3 of us slept in till noon! I helped 'em clean their "fishin' reels", & when got my 5G, I found Contractor in Jamb, sellin' me nearly new Lake Home, w/him tyin' up buncha lots for his business. Told Dad, what I'd bought, he called me a fool, but we jumped in car for Inspection Trip, & it was near new 4 bedroom, Model Home on Howell Lake not where Dad thought it was, making mistake exclaiming, "No wonder you could see that frickin' Croc! Mom said, "What Croc"?..
I’ve owned all 3 and they are all great cartridges! My only complaint with the 17hmr is that it get dirty really quick, so its not a great choice if you do a lot of target shooting. Still it is a fantastic hunting cartridge and would recommend it for that any day!
@@irishkelly654 noo i tried a bunch of different ammos. The bore is just so narrow that even normal amounts of fouling will constrict the bore quicker and cause pressure issues sooner. I also didn’t have this issue with just 17hmr but with 17 hornet as well. With 17 caliber guns you gotta clean them more often and make sure to use a copper solvent every once in a while. But with a clean gun Ive never had issues with either round and fantastic accuracy, especially with the 17 hornet.
@@victorwaddell6530 honestly ive never found it any worse than the 22wmr with the wind. Its just so fast and its BC is better so it just cuts thru the air.
@@NemrahG - Not sure what to tell you? I've had my CZ452 in .17HMR for 20 years and never had this problem and I've shot thousands upon thousands of rounds in that time. Twice a year I use rod, mop and patches, the rest of the time just the bore snake (I use two, one with solvent and the other to clear out). That's why I asked about your ammo. I have .204 Ruger, not much bigger than.17 but again, never had issues you speak of?
I think a lot of the penetration test results come from the construction and shape of the projectile. The 17 hmr has a sharper point design and look to have a more robust jacket. My $.02, FWIW.
I may or may not be able to confirm that the 17 grain CCI TNT bullet will go into a doe's forehead but will not exit out the back of the skull and will make the whole top of the head feel like a newborn's soft spot.
Lehigh Defense actually makes those projectiles. Underwood also loads Barnes copper bullets in a few products. Cutting Edge Bullets actually makes a hand-loadable .22LR cartridge using copper spire pointed bullets. Nothing for .22wmr however.
In pellet guns we found the 177 to be a superior caliber for killing grouse and ptarmigan. The 177 pellets always put them down due to that penetration. The 22 consistently bounced off as opposed to penetrating. Worked but the 177 was more consistent.
Overpenetration means the round isnt disipating its energy in the target. That generally means a smaller permanent wound path and less trauma. The most effective round is typically the round that dissipates the most joules in the target.
If physics has taught me anything, the 17hmr would actually dump more energy faster whereas the heavier projectiles would retain more energy while simultaneously having more to deliver.
The only reason 17hmr penetrates so much is because of the smaller surface area creating a much smaller point for the energy to be transfered and absorbed by the target (and the velocity). Similar effect to the dudes who can throw a needle through glass without breaking it.
@midlbrwn15 correctly stated. That's why overpenetration is bad. The round leaves the target with energy unspent. Regardless of caliber and bullet type, a round that stops within its target has left 100% of its energy inside that target. Fast, slow, light, heavy is meaningless. It's joules dissipated that counts the most, followed by wound path. That's why hollowpoints are used for defense - not because they cause more injury from petals, but because they stop inside the target nearly 100% of the time. Same for hard nose flat tips for bears. A 22 magnum has nearly 40% more energy than a 17 HMR. If they both stop in the target the 22 magnum wins every single time.
@midlbrwn15 yes. Unfortunately, it often goes right through small game leaving energy unspent. Your example of throwing a needle through glass is outstanding. This only works because the needle doesn't leave enough energy in the pane to shatter it. In fa t, they don't actually penetrative the glass at all. The needle strike simply causes the glass to spall.
I've done this test. .17 HMR is an awesome round, I love the lil' fella. .17HMR pops a hole through a road sign like you drilled it with a drill press. Perfect little hole, sweet!
I made my own DIY gelatin about 10 years ago from a TH-cam video. I'm still using the same gelatin to this day. It's room temperature stable, doesn't need to be refrigerated, just keep it in a sealed container. A couple of key things, never cook/overheat it when remelting it back down and remolding it. If you 'cook' it, then it can/will spoil like a food product. Second, the recipe needs to include glycerin, this is what holds the moisture/acts as the preservative. Over the years you'll occasionally need to add a little distilled water & a few drops of glycerin from the natural loses that occur from repeated heat cycles. I made enough to fill two 5 gallon buckets and it cost me roughly $80 (back in the day). I was using it for casting detailed items, only later did I try shooting it and the results made me smile :).
@@garylisewski3130 You suspend the item you wish to cast into the gelatin when it's liquid. Once solidified, pull/pop it out, pour in your choice of medium, silicone is best. Typically, I carve what I need out of wax, then coat it with latex body paint, otherwise the hot gelatin doesn't play well. Most anything that 'kicks off' and produces heat is incompatible for obvious reasons. When finished, gently reheat the gelatin, pour it through cheese cloth to remove contaminants into sealed containers. I've used gallon ice cream buckets for ten years.
My experience .22Lr is just weak, .17HMR has a lot of penetration, .22Mag has a lot of energy it wants to get rid of, but they used to be loaded hotter.
Thanks for the video. I was surprised at the .17 HMR FMJ performance, but I don't think I've ever fired a .17 HMR FMJ. I think of the .17 HMR as a rabbit round. For that, a hollowpoint that only penetrates eight inches is fine. This would also be ideal for fox hunting. Those little .17 caliber hollowpoint bullets tend to disintegrate on hitting anything solid. That the FMJ's velocity causes it to punch through things makes sense. The .22 WMR is a more versatile round. If I win the lottery, I'm going to get a KelTech CMR-30 as a fun little rifle for self-defense. I would also get a bolt-action .22 WMR for hunting uses. The .22LR remains the champion for lowest-cost shooting fun.
*I have been pushing .17HMR for several years now, and this totally endorses my position. If you **_really_** want to leave your jaw on the ground in shock, compare the 17HMR against ANY other cartridge and a vest: the results are truly shocking!*
The results are not a surprise: The kinetic energy formula is KE = 1/2 * M * V^2, M=mass, V=velocity This means that if you double the velocity e.g. bullet, KE increases 4 times with the same mass. While doubling mass of a bullet only increases KE by 2 times. The 17HMR was double the velocity of the 22LR, and the 22WMR was 500fps slower than the 17HMR A smaller diameter bullet has less friction both in the air and passing through an object e.g. it takes less force to pass a needle through a heavyweight piece of canvas vs using a pencil, it takes less energy to push wood or steel out of the path of the bullet allowing clean pass throughs.
Bought a Keltec PMR-30 a few years ago and I was impressed enough to daily carry it for a couple years. Having 30+1 rounds of 22 mag in a pistol is definitely a plus but my favorite thing was the low recoil allowing you to put several accurate shots in quick succession. Got a flash reducer because in low light situations it would be like a camera flash in your face without it and having a little more length on the barrel itself didn't hurt. Carry a XD in 45 ACP now so definitely a swing in the other direction but still has 15+1.
Nice test but mini mag would be the last cartridge I would have used for this test. Try a federal punch, stinger, or a solid point Aguila super maximum. Oops. Posted before watching the whole thing (stinger)
I use the CCI .17HMR 17gr Varmint Tip from a Savage bolt action rifle for groundhogs at 40 yds. CCI calls this their A-17 round, according to CCI it is rated at higher velocity to optimize reliable function in the Savage A-17 rifle, which I don't have. CCI rates the muzzle velocity at 2650, so it's gonna shoot pretty flat. Head shots send the groundhogs straight to paradise regardless of whether any shadow was seen. The varmint tip does not penetrate, it frags. I see about 3" of penetration in animal flesh and massive tissue damage. Also nice is this round is not terribly loud and I don't need hearing protection shooting it outdoors. .17 HMR is a wicked little round, I like it a lot.
@@robv1257 Yeah I like my Savage bolt action a lot. It has a stainless heavy barrel, a fine trigger, a nice looking laminated wood thumbhole stock and it didn't cost a fortune. The only issue is it's lefty and the stock won't allow ambidextrous shooting so 90% of shooters can't use it without first changing the stock. I found it at a gun show in 2015 and snapped it up. I put a decent bipod and a decent but inexpensive scope on it and it shoots fine. Real nice rifle for the money. I have 10 rd mags for it but it could be a single shot for my purpose. For varmints at shorter range with .17HMR you pretty much can't miss.
The .17 IS a .22 magnum. Just necked down. The .17hmr is a killer. I’ve taken ground hog, squirrel, rabbit, raccoon, possum, and fox. 1 shot, 1 kill every time
17 WSM was my favorite rimfire chambering but I've since gone back to the trusty old .22LR Why? - Ammo quality and availability. Regardless of the ballistics if all you can find is one brand of ammunition that just wont group or had ES of 80 when you try to shoot long range there is no point. With the .22 and quality Laupa or Elley ammo you at least have ES that is reliable enough to put you on far targets, you find the appropriate holdover and the ammo is consistent. If Lapua made .17wsm like they do the SK lineup for .22 it would likely have taken off, but with cheaply manufactured inconsistent ammo being your only option the chambering is next to dead.
@@MrMagnaniman I used the 17 WSM for quite a while, but to my knowledge neither savage nor Ruger (the ony 2 companies licensed to produce it) make a semi auto - heck ruger stopped making the 17wsm completely and savage only offers it in their abysmal B-MaG. Hornady put the final nail in the coffin by halting production of their 17wsm cartridges in favor of their own 17HMR so what are we left for the 17wsm? Savage B-Mag's with ammo that gives SD of 80...
@@foonus406 Exactly. No semi-autos at all for WSM. I'm not sure how they didn't learn from Hornady's HMR/HM2 debacle, but here we are. HMR is hanging in there, though. Volquartsen makes semi-autos for it. They're pricey, but they work. And there's a good selection of bolt guns for it, too. No, it doesn't have the same ballistics as WSM, but it's still a substantial improvement over .22LR with a decent selection of quality ammo. I'm not meaning to undermine your point at all, though. All my rimfire target rifles are .22LR. For what .17HMR costs, I might as well be shooting centerfire. .17 only comes out when I'm going after rabbits in the garden. And I figured out that a cat is better for that than a gun, anyway.
Observing the 22LR is a great illustration as to why mild steel targets are bad for use, see how the round comes nearly straight back from the recoil off the metal? Bigger bullets can do that too, don't get yourselves killed out there. He is doing it right with the shield though.
The .17 is underrated. good for some things, terrible for others. I took a rabbit with one a few days ago and the HP really ripped it up, no good. But for raccoons, groundhogs, and other pests you aren't taking for meat, its a killer to get through thick skin/fur/fat. Also shoots very flat, but has a terrible BC obviously because of its weight. Inside 100 with no wind, its a beast.
For punching paper: .22 lr For punching paper at extended range: 17 hmr For punching small game: .22 mag As much as people talk about the .17 hmr performance for hunting, the extra bullet mass is what gives the .22 mag extra stopping power.
Great videos! Informative, funny and you have a voice for radio. I'm a big fan of rimfire purely based on prices here in Canada, the .22 WMR is one of my favourite rounds, the only reason I don't lean towards the .17 HMR is price and availability where I live. But the .17 HMR is a really nice round, very accurate for rimfire.
[Comment before watching it: I am a big 22mag fan. My father always had his Winchester model 94 in .22mag and that thing was great be it open sights or scoped. I myself chose the Lever action Rugger 77 All weather setup with a Leupold Scope (yes, the scope cost more then the gun but luckily for me my Grandfather owned a Gun Shop for awhile in the 80s/early90s so I took advantage of that) in 22mag and loved it too.]
Well, honestly, I can't say I'm surprised by the results. As technology changes it tends to get better and it either improves the existing Round/Cartridge or Replaces it but stands firmly because of the foundation of those before it. This is demerited well in the differences and change over by military forces from things like the Round Ball to the Minie Ball bullet or the spitzer bullet versus the older round nose bullet. Yes, I'm a .45 ACP Guy, though I admit the 10mm is most likely better, and the 9mm certainly holds it own today with the advantages of new technology and improvements of the components of the round, I don't switch over for the biggest of reasons and that is the $$$. When you start with something and invest wholly in it over the years you really can't afford to change all the equipment you already have. Regardless, excellent presentation, and thank you for sharing it with us!
I knew the 17HMR would do amazing. As it was explained to me, 17HMR can drop a hog at a couple hundred meters if you can use it long range. You should see what the hollow point 17HMR does to a metal coffee can filled with damp paper towels. Makes a tiny hole in the front and blows a huge exit wound out the back. It also does good against soft Kevlar panels.
I love and keep all 3 calibers in rotation. How I feel on the squirrel hunt determines which I bring. I have to say, I enjoy your visual on this! But I still don't know which I'd prefer if i could only have one
The little puff of smoke you sometimes see from the gel is called "dieseling," caused by intense compression and auto-ignition of the oxygen in the air inside the momentary cavity.
You did use the 22LR Stinger, but i would offer the CCI Volicitor is a more powerful round for the 22LR. It is a bit slower @ 1465fps but it is a 40gr round. I find its performance on sage rats is much better than the stinger's 👍
Disagreement on the 1/8" mild steel test - clear .17 win IMO. If one was hiding behind it, the outcome would be very clear, and that's a win hands down for the HMR. Great show as always, thx!
As a PMR30 owner and longtime advocate of the WMR, I'm definitely cheering for it. Wooden block - no surprise that the HMR lasered through as it is effectively a baby .223, especially out of a rifle, as it has both velocity and bullet design working in favor of it to win the wooden block test. Cement - I'll concede the HMR went deeper as it has the velocity for it, but the WMR hit harder as you've got a heavier slug which isn't all that much slower than the HMR - why the .22 long was even invited, much less bothered showing up since it knew it was coming in dead last every time, I don't know. Steel #1 - only surprise was that the second WMR bullied its way through - no surprise that the HMR left a clean hole. Gel - also no surprise due to what the three cartridges were made for. So, putting my PMR aside and talking rifles only, this was a grapes to apples to oranges comparison as the three rounds were designed for three entirely different things. .22 long is what it is - we don't need to discuss it. WMR is designed to score torso kills on small to smaller-medium game out to about 100 yards - you can drop foxes and coyotes with it and even roll a deer or hog with a more precise shot and plenty of folks have done this over the years - it's an upgraded .22 long. HMR was intended strictly as a long range pest control round as it has high velocity, accuracy and a low drop/windage to allow for precision shots on rabbits, groundhogs, prairie dogs and other rodents out to 200 yards, but lacks the power to take down larger game with anything short of a precise headshot. As such, it really isn't fair to compare WMR to HMR since they were designed for entirely different things, with each doing what they were designed for quite well, but not so well when put up against what the other specializes in.
Garmin has the market on consistent, reliable, compact, accurate chronographs right now, in my opinion. Beats that clunky massive orange beast on a tripod.
Great video. Re: caliber v. penetration: My favorite author & gun enthusiast the Late Great L. Neil Smith always wanted to see an electromagnetic wire-fed NEEDLE gun.
A17's are 17 grain at 2650 FPS giving an Energy of 265 Ft-LBS, ve the Hornady V-Max.17 ammo is 17 grain going 2550 with Energy of 245 FT-Lbs, Win Super X 20 grain Game Point (looks like a low depth hollow point) traveling at 2375 gives an Energy of 229 Ft-Lbs , ...20 Ft-Lbs, 36 Ft-Lbs could make a difference when the hole is so tiny! What is needed here is a FMJ.
What you don't see is the 22lr bouncing around inside the box of sand. Some say it's still bouncing around to this day
By far the longest standing piece of fudd lore.
I’m afraid to open it up lol
@@bananaballistics What you got also going is Pointed or Spitzer versus Wad Cutter or Conical. Sharp points cut and are made to penetrate through targets, whereas Wad Cutters and Conicals are made to dump their energy right after hitting the targets.
@@bananaballistics Some Ammo Manufacturer makes a Jacketed 22 LR.
Facts!
The .17 HMR is definitely no slouch. A .17 caliber bullet, the size of a .177 caliber pellet. Penetrating a 1/4 in of mild steel, is quite impressive. Great video brother. Love the channel.
17 HMR is a modern cartridge.
It's a great varmint cartridge.
When shooting a .17 HMR, you need to consider wind speed much more than any .22 cal.
Thought it was an eighth of an inch
@@cm7032004closer to 3/16”
It was 1/8in and wind speed starts to become an issue at 150-200 yards
Great tests !
I’ve used the .22 WMR for years and have always liked the performance of it !
Something that folks should remember, is that the bullet type will affect your penetration. Those hollow points are designed to expand upon hitting a hard/firm surface vs the first .17HMR had a point that's designed for going deep into the target, regardless of the hardness. Those rounded nose .22s on the other hand, are designed to give you a more kinetic mass that gives you an in-between of the hollow point and the pointed (but given enough gunpowder will penetrate just as deep).
So if you want a more accurate comparison, always remember to keep the bullet type the same when possible.
Yep
Literally everything you just took all that time to type is incorrect.
@@mightyjoeyoung1390So bullet composition has no effect on penetration? Interesting.
@@KyleTysver betcha he can't even list 3 common types of metal combinations used in bullets and what they're intended for without using Google.
@@mightyjoeyoung1390 ok champ ... enlighten us, or will you ghost us because you know less than f#ckall
I've had a 22 Magnum since 2002. Love that caliber! It punches well above it's weight class.
I have a Farmer Friend that has killed many Deer with his 22 Magnum while Harvesting his crops from a Combine..
I had a friend up in pa.that killed a big buck with his 17 at 50 yds.
I like how the comments are felonies 😂😂
Farmer on his land. How is that a felony?
@@asasquatchwithinternet6846
I like how you imply you know the laws of every place on earth.
I have all 3 and I LOVE my 17HMR. I bought mine in 2003 when I was home on leave and it was a new thing back then. I got lucky and bought the Marlin 17V which turned out to arguably be the best platform for that cartrdge! I taught my sons how to shoot with that rifle
I've been waiting for someone with all three or Atleast 22wmr and 17hmr. I got a question I'd really appreciate you answering; We know 17hmr would perform better ballistically but how about a 100 yard coyote shot. I dropped one with a side shoulder shot from 22wrm but I'm wondering could a 17hmr do it? Could it do it better?
And while you're at it I'd love to know whichof the two is louder? Thank you, brother
The 17 is worth getting for sure. Can keep it in a quarter size group over a hundred yards all day easy Peezy
I did an insane amount of testing on this cartridge on my Marlin and would be have valuable information if I were making videos of that back then@@wasntme3651
@@wasntme3651 I believe you, brother. You can do even better than that with a nice airgun. I'm concerned with terminal performance at that 100yd and beyond. I'd sure appreciate experience and any help on this one.
I would have to set up a calibrated sound meter for that. As far as the most effective at 100 yards, there are numerous 17HMR loads that I've used in my testing going back to 2004. There are several different types of polymer tips from different manufacturers, FMJ and Hollow Points as well. FMJ were the least accurate according to my testing. As far as power, that can be figured out fairly closely using velocity and BC@@abadran8174
One thing us airgunners know is that .22 out penetrates .25, and .177 out penetrates .22 when shooting slugs(bullets) from our high power airguns. It's sometimes referred to as the "ice picking" effect. Less frontal area for similar energy= more penetration.
That's what *he* said.
@@rob6850 😆
Sorry couldn’t hear you over our firearms here in the us 😂 good luck with your air rifles
@@Krobear So for comparison, a 40 grain .22 bullet @ 950fps will penetrate far less than a 40 grain .177 bullet @ 950 fps.
We like to stay under the transonic range with our slugs(bullets), as that's where best BC and lest wind drift are for lower powered projectiles.
@@michaelforrester9963 I'm in the US! You should check out some of the current high powered PCP airguns, I have a .30 cal that shoots a 50 grain bullet at around 1000 fps. Pretty fun.
Ray Romano doing an ammo test lol. Strong work brother.
The tests against the wood, steel and ballistic gelatin makes clear that a .HMR and .22 rim fires are not to be underestimated in their ability to kill.
I avoided 22LR for the longest time, and 17HMR even longer…but when I found 17WSM the scales fell from my eyes. Now I’m a rimfire junky. Centrefire is still where I live, but it’s fun to step out for a little strange every now and again. Cheers from Canada.
Where are you finding ammo for that WSM?
@@irishkelly654 Just in my basement at the moment. It’s rare as hens’ teeth at the moment.
@@britishbulldog8966 - I looked at one several months ago and a friend said great as long as you don't want to shoot it, LOL.. Obviously meaning the scarcity of ammo. So, I have not bought one as yet and will have to stick with the .17 HMR. I do have a .204 Ruger (CZ 527 Varmint) so I'll live, LOL. Cheers...
😢😢😢😢😢😢
@@irishkelly654 hows the accuracy on the 204 ruger? i want to get a 204
I used to shoot 17HMR as my primary short range varmint gun, but any wind can really throw that light bullet around. 22 WMR bucks the wind better and I've switched to 22 mag. But when it comes to accuracy, .22 LR is hard to beat. There's been decades of development of precision 22LR ammo. Pick your cartridges based on what you need.
If the 22 Mag had a spire point like the 17 HMR I'm sure it would have gone through the plywood
You have one of the best, if not the best channels for testing different calibers of ammo. I click every time I see one. Keep up the great work, i always enjoy watching and seeing the results 👍👍👍
Thanks for making the point about not relying on rimfire. I tend to get maybe 1 dud in 10k rounds plinking and hunting. But don't forget that defensive rounds also get a lot of movement, moisture, and temperature variation as you carry them, potentially knocking the priming compound out of the rim.
If anyone steals my identity they are going to be so disappointed.
Hilarious 😂
Had someone steal mine, they gave it back with a sympathy card.
@ronreyes9910 My credit so bad most places stopped taking my cash.
@ronreyes9910 My credit so bad most places stopped taking my cash.
@ronreyes9910 My credit so bad most places stopped taking my cash.
I can believe that the .17 HMR went straight through that big block of wood as it's going at proper rifle velocities.
It's the only Speer type projectile of course it's going to penetrate deeper than a hollowpoint .22lr and a wadcutter .22wmr.
It really isn't even a half ass comparison, all 3 are completely different compositions and type of projectile with vastly different designs.
All this video did was show you how a .17hmr of that factory load performs in that wooden medium
@@francislutz8027 The variances in bullet styles isn't the fault of the presenter of this video. It's a manufacturer thing. 22LR comes mostly in solid lead, sometimes that lead is hollow, sometimes coated in copper. Every 17 round available these days is either a hollow point or a ballistic tip with the odd fmj or flat nosed jacketed "spire point". The 22 mag comes in a wider choice with hollow points, soft points , ballistic tips, etc. The reason for this is you can't drive solid lead bullets to the magnum level velocity that the 22 mag and 17hmr produce. Thats why their bullets are copper jacketed. To give a true apples to apples comparison, you'd have to shoot all 3 with ammo that doesn't exist.
@@Magnum_Express - Great reply. Boy...waiting for francislutz to respond...the crickets sure are a chirping?! LOL...
Use FMJ 22 mag to truly compare it to 17HMR. I have both 22 mag and 17 HMR I should just trade or sale the 17 due to it have use to me.
I have a 22 and a 22 magnum rifle. I never thought to get a 17 caliber but because of this video I will probably buy one now. Thank you for the knowledge.
There was no knowledge in this video.
All 3 factory loads have vastly different projectiles, of course the hardest metal with the most conical shape .17hmr is going to outperform a hollowpoint .22lr and a wadcutter .22wmr
@@francislutz8027multiple other videos show the 17hmr has better ballistics than the other two. Fud
And the cleaning rod and brushes you'll need for 17. Also I think 17 is more apt to foul sooner due to the geometrically tiny bore.
Wow! I didn't expect these results.. I'd have bet the farm .22WMR would be freeway exits ahead of either of the other two. Looks like I'm sleepin' on .17HMR! I definitely got taken to school with this video!
A super-easy way to see into clear ballistics gel: pour a little water over the top surface of the gel and then place a piece of clear acrylic or polycarbonate on it. This makes the rippled surface of the gel 'disappear' and gives you a clearer look into the center.
While that may be equally as effective as using a blowtorch, it's nowhere near as cool!
Lot of people don't realize a .22wmr rifle has the same fpe (power) as a compact 9mm pistol with basic ammo- they are both in the low 300fpe range. Also, on soft targets, .22wmr penetrates much further than .17hmr lol.
That's because 17hmr dumps it's energy faster and does more damage. .22 bullets have a habit of going straight through a small critter, 17hmr splatters them and doesn't go any further. Typical behaviour of a small high velocity projectile vs a heavier slower moving one producing similar energy.
Love you're channel you have a great sense of humor. Keep up the great work. Cheers from Canada 🍻
I have a RUGER 96/22 magnum lever gun (yes, RUGER once made a few lever guns) and a RUGER Single Six with a 22 mag cylinder always in it. .22 WMR is a very powerful rimfire cartridge. Not up to 5.7 x28 but still powerful.
Ruger is now making lever action guns again under the Marlin brand.
@@mediocreman2 Ruger owns the company, but they are still Marlin rifles. Ruger itself made lever actions at one time.
Owning the 96.. you lucky bàs..... I have a 77 , but I wish my wallet would have allowed me to afford all the 96 cals
Great video. Informative. And since I just bought a 17hmr I’m even more excited about the round. Definitely testing it on different material
The squirrel on my profile picture was done by a 17 hmr
.17hmr is a phenomenal round!
HMR was a definite winner on the 1” concrete. My Savage HMR shoots darts at 100 yards! Love it.
We love the 17 home I have taken down coyotes at 260 yds with it . We have not got the .22 out of the safe since getting 17 hmr in over 12 years. Thank you very much for this video Don And Donna north idaho
Hmm, are you sure about the 260 yards? A 17hmr round at that range would probably have less than 50 lbs-ft of energy. That's pretty light for a coyote sized varmint. Heck, it's light even for a wood chuck. Where did you hit your coyote? The eternal or the temple area?
@@benyatrock
You would be surprised lol. The 17 is a badass hot little round.
Same. After I got my 17 I haven't shot any of my 22s.
I'm a Remington 5mm man as still have my rifle from 1971 and lots of ammo and not going to run out anytime soon.. 22Mag beat it out and 5mm went obsolete. But at the time period, the 5mm bullet was superior to 22Mag as they were still just using the same bullets as 22LR. Having a 5mm, the ammo was 5x more expensive and my dad forced me to buy my own, we learn shot discipline and not out shooting everything like the 22LR guys so. I love the loud crack of 5mm
They really need to bring it back. BIG TIME.
Aguila makes the 5mm with a 30 gr bullet. Original Rem 5mm were 38 gr. Aguila rounds are fine in my rifle and can take care of my woodchuck problem when needed!
Aguila made. Haven't seen any in years. Unfortunately my first firearm, Remington 591, and about 2000 rounds of the Aguila ammo were lost in a house fire four years ago. I sure miss that rifle; it was hell on coyotes.
Kudos to you sir!!! My first rifle, that I worked hard through the summer to earn money for, was a Remington Model 591 magazine fed 5mm Remington Magnum. I found it in a local gunsmith/dealer's gun rack and immediately fell in love with it. My father allowed me to purchase this rifle and I felt like I could take on any animal on any continent with it. I owned it for several years, but finding ammo for it was difficult and the price at nearly $6.00 per box of 50 rounds, was a bit above my budget as a young person. I still own 1/2 box of original Remington ammo for it. Dear Lord, I loved that little rifle!!! Thank you for the memories.
I had a Remington 5mm RMR growing up, that was a kick-but rimfire. I loved that rifle, too bad they stopped making ammo.
Love your channel man! So cool to see how different rounds behave!
Loves me some .17 HMR. It's just an inexpesnsive Savage 93R17 with the Heavy Barrel. But the dang thing is surgically accurate! I have no further desire to fire any .22 LR since acquiring the .17 HMR.
Glad my favorite rimfire (22 WMR) made a halfway good showing.
I ordered and received a few of the Banana Ballistics t-shirts. A big hit at the gun range. I forgot to order a sticker for my range box.
ME TOO - THE 22 MAG WITH 40 GR SOLIDS IS A KILLER -- BUT I DO HAVE A 17 HMR TOO -- BUT USE THE 22 MAG EXCLUSIVELY ON ARMADILLOS -- WORKS BETTER THAN THE 17 IN MY EXPERIENCE
Just did a side by side test of these three and the 5.7. 17 hmr has been my favorite for a couple years and performed better than all three in my test
Mine2
If 22lr beats anything I'm going to be very upset at physics...
I'm not a fan of the 17. I know there are some big fans for this round. I just know I went head to head with a few who worshipped this round. And beat them every time in the real world of taking game in all kinds of rough weather.
Bounces around and liquefies the organs, bro.
@@rob6850 ah that is some peak fud lore, no bullet bounces around inside of a body because its full of liquid, it will ricochet at least once and travel in roughly a straight line unless it is going very fast in which case it may curve inside of a body.
I'd be willing to bed money it would beat 22 short and cb caps
😅
Mr. Banana - In '61Panama, they had Killer Salty, that ate Panamanians & Indians, so sent out 4 Govt Hunters, & only 1 came back, scared shtless. Bounty of 15G put on it, Dad joined w/boyhood Buddy, a Canal Electrician for 6 night hunt. They were cleanin' their 12GA fishin' rigs, when reminded 'em I had perfect night vision. Quick, .22 long rifle HP borrowed from Maid's Hubby, & the 3 of us went out, & I chambered .22 round in 22" barreled deck gun, & at 12:45, I had company! It looked like sub surfacing, but actually, just the head part w/eyes stuck out, but it was silent & huge! We were usin' 1,2,click to hit light, so at "click" I fired, leaving croc w/o movement! Dad's Buddy jumped in Chagres River yelling "Life Preservers & Rope", in middle of night! We got back in late havin' to bum some Mix, as couldn't make it, but both banks full of helpers. Canal Zone Fish Cop happy to check Croc, & it was 34' 7" long X 8' 6" wide, & Croc had parts of his Buddies inside, so "The Boys" got their Croc!! Back at home @dawn, Cacklers(Wives)were all abuzz, as some brave sole finally got that Croc...it's all over the News! Dad & Buddy like twins said, "That's nice", and all 3 of us slept in till noon! I helped 'em clean their "fishin' reels", & when got my 5G, I found Contractor in Jamb, sellin' me nearly new Lake Home, w/him tyin' up buncha lots for his business. Told Dad, what I'd bought, he called me a fool, but we jumped in car for Inspection Trip, & it was near new 4 bedroom, Model Home on Howell Lake not where Dad thought it was, making mistake exclaiming, "No wonder you could see that frickin' Croc! Mom said, "What Croc"?..
I’ve owned all 3 and they are all great cartridges! My only complaint with the 17hmr is that it get dirty really quick, so its not a great choice if you do a lot of target shooting. Still it is a fantastic hunting cartridge and would recommend it for that any day!
The downside of the 17 HMR is that gets bucked around in the wind more .
Sure it isn't your ammo choice? Buy a bore snake, quick and easy (temporary clean) at the range or in the field.
@@irishkelly654 noo i tried a bunch of different ammos. The bore is just so narrow that even normal amounts of fouling will constrict the bore quicker and cause pressure issues sooner. I also didn’t have this issue with just 17hmr but with 17 hornet as well. With 17 caliber guns you gotta clean them more often and make sure to use a copper solvent every once in a while. But with a clean gun Ive never had issues with either round and fantastic accuracy, especially with the 17 hornet.
@@victorwaddell6530 honestly ive never found it any worse than the 22wmr with the wind. Its just so fast and its BC is better so it just cuts thru the air.
@@NemrahG - Not sure what to tell you? I've had my CZ452 in .17HMR for 20 years and never had this problem and I've shot thousands upon thousands of rounds in that time. Twice a year I use rod, mop and patches, the rest of the time just the bore snake (I use two, one with solvent and the other to clear out). That's why I asked about your ammo. I have .204 Ruger, not much bigger than.17 but again, never had issues you speak of?
The 17 HMR round is so small it slips between the molecules of the wood as though they weren’t even there.
Agreed!
I think a lot of the penetration test results come from the construction and shape of the projectile. The 17 hmr has a sharper point design and look to have a more robust jacket. My $.02, FWIW.
Now THIS is the test of the century.
Should have included 556, 57, TCM...
This was a lot of fun but leaving out the CCI Velocitor seems like a major oversight!
I may or may not be able to confirm that the 17 grain CCI TNT bullet will go into a doe's forehead but will not exit out the back of the skull and will make the whole top of the head feel like a newborn's soft spot.
I knew the 17 her would puncture that 6x6. Love the 17 HMR
17 fmj yes ! Any outher fragments on impact ! Accurate shot placement on all ! Did the same test on a car door 17fmj went trough and into outher door!
it'd be cool to see underwood make a .22wmr extreme defender solid copper or brass round.
Lehigh Defense actually makes those projectiles. Underwood also loads Barnes copper bullets in a few products.
Cutting Edge Bullets actually makes a hand-loadable .22LR cartridge using copper spire pointed bullets. Nothing for .22wmr however.
In pellet guns we found the 177 to be a superior caliber for killing grouse and ptarmigan. The 177 pellets always put them down due to that penetration. The 22 consistently bounced off as opposed to penetrating. Worked but the 177 was more consistent.
This Terry guy is a great add to the channel. He really brings the entertainment level way up.
😉
I'm sure someone mentioned it, but to make your Gel Blocks clearer, use a "heat gun" to melt the outsides to be smooth
Overpenetration means the round isnt disipating its energy in the target. That generally means a smaller permanent wound path and less trauma. The most effective round is typically the round that dissipates the most joules in the target.
If physics has taught me anything, the 17hmr would actually dump more energy faster whereas the heavier projectiles would retain more energy while simultaneously having more to deliver.
The only reason 17hmr penetrates so much is because of the smaller surface area creating a much smaller point for the energy to be transfered and absorbed by the target (and the velocity). Similar effect to the dudes who can throw a needle through glass without breaking it.
@midlbrwn15 correctly stated. That's why overpenetration is bad. The round leaves the target with energy unspent. Regardless of caliber and bullet type, a round that stops within its target has left 100% of its energy inside that target. Fast, slow, light, heavy is meaningless. It's joules dissipated that counts the most, followed by wound path. That's why hollowpoints are used for defense - not because they cause more injury from petals, but because they stop inside the target nearly 100% of the time. Same for hard nose flat tips for bears.
A 22 magnum has nearly 40% more energy than a 17 HMR. If they both stop in the target the 22 magnum wins every single time.
@midlbrwn15 yes. Unfortunately, it often goes right through small game leaving energy unspent.
Your example of throwing a needle through glass is outstanding. This only works because the needle doesn't leave enough energy in the pane to shatter it. In fa t, they don't actually penetrative the glass at all. The needle strike simply causes the glass to spall.
Energy is not delivered to Target with 17 cal. Lol
I've done this test. .17 HMR is an awesome round, I love the lil' fella. .17HMR pops a hole through a road sign like you drilled it with a drill press. Perfect little hole, sweet!
That was an interesting test. Guess we can call .17HMR the “Pine Slayer”!
The things it punches holes in will blow your mind and the range and accuracy with good conditions(no wind) is crazy.
Love my cheap Savage 17.
On sale for $225 with a great scope. Super accurate!
That massive muzzle brake on your 17 HMR is a trip. 😅 Do you really feel like it's doing anything to help mitigate some of that heavy recoil?
It looks cool though.😂
I've shot 17HMR with silencer. Was prepared for some more recoil and little bang but there wasn't much. On subjective scale - less recoil than 22LR.
Bahaha!
No, but it definitely protects the crown of the muzzle. For me, that makes it well worth it.
Comparing different calibres is fun. We need to see different bullets in the same calibre.
It would be interesting to see how the 17 Winchester super Magnum would do.
Funny to see this, I get to see this video. And just a few minutes later am asking the same question? What about the 17 WSM?
Maybe he's saving the 17WSM to go against the 9mm Flobert.... 😮
Nevermind, I forgot Flobert is a shotshell ....
I have one it's in a different league. 600 feet faster than the hmr
I made my own DIY gelatin about 10 years ago from a TH-cam video. I'm still using the same gelatin to this day. It's room temperature stable, doesn't need to be refrigerated, just keep it in a sealed container. A couple of key things, never cook/overheat it when remelting it back down and remolding it. If you 'cook' it, then it can/will spoil like a food product. Second, the recipe needs to include glycerin, this is what holds the moisture/acts as the preservative. Over the years you'll occasionally need to add a little distilled water & a few drops of glycerin from the natural loses that occur from repeated heat cycles. I made enough to fill two 5 gallon buckets and it cost me roughly $80 (back in the day). I was using it for casting detailed items, only later did I try shooting it and the results made me smile :).
How did u cast with this?
@@garylisewski3130 You suspend the item you wish to cast into the gelatin when it's liquid. Once solidified, pull/pop it out, pour in your choice of medium, silicone is best. Typically, I carve what I need out of wax, then coat it with latex body paint, otherwise the hot gelatin doesn't play well. Most anything that 'kicks off' and produces heat is incompatible for obvious reasons. When finished, gently reheat the gelatin, pour it through cheese cloth to remove contaminants into sealed containers. I've used gallon ice cream buckets for ten years.
@@adf360 thank you!!!
My experience .22Lr is just weak, .17HMR has a lot of penetration, .22Mag has a lot of energy it wants to get rid of, but they used to be loaded hotter.
In what years? I'm 67 and have no memory of what you're saying.
Sorry, young-gun. Only us 1500's kids know about it, its a bit before your time
22 Magnum ❤ you can clear your gel block (wrinkles) with a gentle torch melting. Great channel! Thanks
Thanks for the video.
I was surprised at the .17 HMR FMJ performance, but I don't think I've ever fired a .17 HMR FMJ. I think of the .17 HMR as a rabbit round. For that, a hollowpoint that only penetrates eight inches is fine. This would also be ideal for fox hunting. Those little .17 caliber hollowpoint bullets tend to disintegrate on hitting anything solid. That the FMJ's velocity causes it to punch through things makes sense. The .22 WMR is a more versatile round. If I win the lottery, I'm going to get a KelTech CMR-30 as a fun little rifle for self-defense. I would also get a bolt-action .22 WMR for hunting uses. The .22LR remains the champion for lowest-cost shooting fun.
they actually are good turkey rounds too. Don't cause much damage but slaps em out
The .17 HMR I meant
*I have been pushing .17HMR for several years now, and this totally endorses my position. If you **_really_** want to leave your jaw on the ground in shock, compare the 17HMR against ANY other cartridge and a vest: the results are truly shocking!*
You should try the 17 wsm
22 mag punches through 3a vests with no problem too, provided you have a longer barrel rifle
The results are not a surprise: The kinetic energy formula is KE = 1/2 * M * V^2, M=mass, V=velocity This means that if you double the velocity e.g. bullet, KE increases 4 times with the same mass. While doubling mass of a bullet only increases KE by 2 times. The 17HMR was double the velocity of the 22LR, and the 22WMR was 500fps slower than the 17HMR
A smaller diameter bullet has less friction both in the air and passing through an object e.g. it takes less force to pass a needle through a heavyweight piece of canvas vs using a pencil, it takes less energy to push wood or steel out of the path of the bullet allowing clean pass throughs.
Wow Jim Bob dun goods ins math is class
Math is r@c!st according to the democrats.
Bought a Keltec PMR-30 a few years ago and I was impressed enough to daily carry it for a couple years. Having 30+1 rounds of 22 mag in a pistol is definitely a plus but my favorite thing was the low recoil allowing you to put several accurate shots in quick succession. Got a flash reducer because in low light situations it would be like a camera flash in your face without it and having a little more length on the barrel itself didn't hurt. Carry a XD in 45 ACP now so definitely a swing in the other direction but still has 15+1.
Nice test but mini mag would be the last cartridge I would have used for this test. Try a federal punch, stinger, or a solid point Aguila super maximum.
Oops. Posted before watching the whole thing (stinger)
I use the CCI .17HMR 17gr Varmint Tip from a Savage bolt action rifle for groundhogs at 40 yds. CCI calls this their A-17 round, according to CCI it is rated at higher velocity to optimize reliable function in the Savage A-17 rifle, which I don't have. CCI rates the muzzle velocity at 2650, so it's gonna shoot pretty flat. Head shots send the groundhogs straight to paradise regardless of whether any shadow was seen. The varmint tip does not penetrate, it frags. I see about 3" of penetration in animal flesh and massive tissue damage. Also nice is this round is not terribly loud and I don't need hearing protection shooting it outdoors. .17 HMR is a wicked little round, I like it a lot.
@@robv1257 Yeah I like my Savage bolt action a lot. It has a stainless heavy barrel, a fine trigger, a nice looking laminated wood thumbhole stock and it didn't cost a fortune. The only issue is it's lefty and the stock won't allow ambidextrous shooting so 90% of shooters can't use it without first changing the stock. I found it at a gun show in 2015 and snapped it up. I put a decent bipod and a decent but inexpensive scope on it and it shoots fine. Real nice rifle for the money. I have 10 rd mags for it but it could be a single shot for my purpose. For varmints at shorter range with .17HMR you pretty much can't miss.
Leave the ballistic data windows up longer so we can read the data!
you CAN slow these down, and there is a pause button also
First time watching your videos, the voice to face caught me off guard. Awesome video man.
17 hmr is no joke but I'd still stick with the 22 magnum.
The .17 IS a .22 magnum. Just necked down. The .17hmr is a killer. I’ve taken ground hog, squirrel, rabbit, raccoon, possum, and fox. 1 shot, 1 kill every time
Exactly what its made for. Well done. 🤝
Yo Barry White wants that voice back...
He definitely doesn't look like the kind of guy that has that voice. it's kind of badass
17 WSM was my favorite rimfire chambering but I've since gone back to the trusty old .22LR
Why? - Ammo quality and availability. Regardless of the ballistics if all you can find is one brand of ammunition that just wont group or had ES of 80 when you try to shoot long range there is no point. With the .22 and quality Laupa or Elley ammo you at least have ES that is reliable enough to put you on far targets, you find the appropriate holdover and the ammo is consistent.
If Lapua made .17wsm like they do the SK lineup for .22 it would likely have taken off, but with cheaply manufactured inconsistent ammo being your only option the chambering is next to dead.
What did .17 in was the semi-auto issues. That led to .17HM2, which divided the market, never really caught on, and dragged HMR down with it.
@@MrMagnaniman I used the 17 WSM for quite a while, but to my knowledge neither savage nor Ruger (the ony 2 companies licensed to produce it) make a semi auto - heck ruger stopped making the 17wsm completely and savage only offers it in their abysmal B-MaG.
Hornady put the final nail in the coffin by halting production of their 17wsm cartridges in favor of their own 17HMR so what are we left for the 17wsm?
Savage B-Mag's with ammo that gives SD of 80...
@@foonus406 Exactly. No semi-autos at all for WSM. I'm not sure how they didn't learn from Hornady's HMR/HM2 debacle, but here we are.
HMR is hanging in there, though. Volquartsen makes semi-autos for it. They're pricey, but they work. And there's a good selection of bolt guns for it, too. No, it doesn't have the same ballistics as WSM, but it's still a substantial improvement over .22LR with a decent selection of quality ammo.
I'm not meaning to undermine your point at all, though. All my rimfire target rifles are .22LR. For what .17HMR costs, I might as well be shooting centerfire. .17 only comes out when I'm going after rabbits in the garden. And I figured out that a cat is better for that than a gun, anyway.
Mosin nagant rifle - test. 😍💪💯✋🌍.
Observing the 22LR is a great illustration as to why mild steel targets are bad for use, see how the round comes nearly straight back from the recoil off the metal? Bigger bullets can do that too, don't get yourselves killed out there. He is doing it right with the shield though.
The .17 is underrated. good for some things, terrible for others. I took a rabbit with one a few days ago and the HP really ripped it up, no good. But for raccoons, groundhogs, and other pests you aren't taking for meat, its a killer to get through thick skin/fur/fat. Also shoots very flat, but has a terrible BC obviously because of its weight. Inside 100 with no wind, its a beast.
The seventeen h m r is a precision shooting round at a little farther distance and more flat shootin, Each has their pros and cons
Before watching I will guess 17 HMR will win
Same
Great job love your channel and your added humor very entertaining sir .
For punching paper: .22 lr
For punching paper at extended range: 17 hmr
For punching small game: .22 mag
As much as people talk about the .17 hmr performance for hunting, the extra bullet mass is what gives the .22 mag extra stopping power.
This !!
17wsm walks in with shades on and tells 22lr to hold my beer.
That .17 HMR has got the balistic tip pointy end, that does add towards Penetration!
Great videos! Informative, funny and you have a voice for radio. I'm a big fan of rimfire purely based on prices here in Canada, the .22 WMR is one of my favourite rounds, the only reason I don't lean towards the .17 HMR is price and availability where I live. But the .17 HMR is a really nice round, very accurate for rimfire.
[Comment before watching it: I am a big 22mag fan. My father always had his Winchester model 94 in .22mag and that thing was great be it open sights or scoped. I myself chose the Lever action Rugger 77 All weather setup with a Leupold Scope (yes, the scope cost more then the gun but luckily for me my Grandfather owned a Gun Shop for awhile in the 80s/early90s so I took advantage of that) in 22mag and loved it too.]
Well, honestly, I can't say I'm surprised by the results. As technology changes it tends to get better and it either improves the existing Round/Cartridge or Replaces it but stands firmly because of the foundation of those before it. This is demerited well in the differences and change over by military forces from things like the Round Ball to the Minie Ball bullet or the spitzer bullet versus the older round nose bullet.
Yes, I'm a .45 ACP Guy, though I admit the 10mm is most likely better, and the 9mm certainly holds it own today with the advantages of new technology and improvements of the components of the round, I don't switch over for the biggest of reasons and that is the $$$. When you start with something and invest wholly in it over the years you really can't afford to change all the equipment you already have.
Regardless, excellent presentation, and thank you for sharing it with us!
You are unique. The only video where a ballistic gel breaks a wind with fume!
I BOUGHT MY FIRST .22 MAG IN 1960. OWNED ONE EVER SINCE.
Love the tanker muzzle brake on the 17hmr 😂
The .17HMR seems a mad little cartridge.
love your videos. fun to watch and informative.
Thank you
I own all three and the .17 is one bad little dude, way more destructive than I would have thought.
I knew the 17HMR would do amazing. As it was explained to me, 17HMR can drop a hog at a couple hundred meters if you can use it long range. You should see what the hollow point 17HMR does to a metal coffee can filled with damp paper towels. Makes a tiny hole in the front and blows a huge exit wound out the back. It also does good against soft Kevlar panels.
I love and keep all 3 calibers in rotation. How I feel on the squirrel hunt determines which I bring. I have to say, I enjoy your visual on this! But I still don't know which I'd prefer if i could only have one
Clearly is the 17HMR win, that's why I have only one rim-file and that's Browning T-bolt 17HMR, very precise and powerful as a rim-file.
17HMR shows exactly why velocity is more important than mass for penetration.
Telling the hawk to shut up was hilarious!!’n
The little puff of smoke you sometimes see from the gel is called "dieseling," caused by intense compression and auto-ignition of the oxygen in the air inside the momentary cavity.
You did use the 22LR Stinger, but i would offer the CCI Volicitor is a more powerful round for the 22LR. It is a bit slower @ 1465fps but it is a 40gr round. I find its performance on sage rats is much better than the stinger's 👍
Which rifles are you using for each caliber round? I can't focus enough to see the stamping on any of them.
Holy cow, I've been underrating the .17 HMR for a while!
Disagreement on the 1/8" mild steel test - clear .17 win IMO. If one was hiding behind it, the outcome would be very clear, and that's a win hands down for the HMR. Great show as always, thx!
Okay, now I’m looking for 17 HMR pocket pistols 😂
22mag is one of the most underrated rounds
I like your style young man. You have earned my sub!
As a PMR30 owner and longtime advocate of the WMR, I'm definitely cheering for it.
Wooden block - no surprise that the HMR lasered through as it is effectively a baby .223, especially out of a rifle, as it has both velocity and bullet design working in favor of it to win the wooden block test.
Cement - I'll concede the HMR went deeper as it has the velocity for it, but the WMR hit harder as you've got a heavier slug which isn't all that much slower than the HMR - why the .22 long was even invited, much less bothered showing up since it knew it was coming in dead last every time, I don't know.
Steel #1 - only surprise was that the second WMR bullied its way through - no surprise that the HMR left a clean hole.
Gel - also no surprise due to what the three cartridges were made for.
So, putting my PMR aside and talking rifles only, this was a grapes to apples to oranges comparison as the three rounds were designed for three entirely different things.
.22 long is what it is - we don't need to discuss it.
WMR is designed to score torso kills on small to smaller-medium game out to about 100 yards - you can drop foxes and coyotes with it and even roll a deer or hog with a more precise shot and plenty of folks have done this over the years - it's an upgraded .22 long.
HMR was intended strictly as a long range pest control round as it has high velocity, accuracy and a low drop/windage to allow for precision shots on rabbits, groundhogs, prairie dogs and other rodents out to 200 yards, but lacks the power to take down larger game with anything short of a precise headshot.
As such, it really isn't fair to compare WMR to HMR since they were designed for entirely different things, with each doing what they were designed for quite well, but not so well when put up against what the other specializes in.
I love that chronograph. Best I've ever used.
I agree
Garmin has the market on consistent, reliable, compact, accurate chronographs right now, in my opinion. Beats that clunky massive orange beast on a tripod.
Great video. Re: caliber v. penetration: My favorite author & gun enthusiast the Late Great L. Neil Smith always wanted to see an electromagnetic wire-fed NEEDLE gun.
There is a High Power 17HMR too, it is called CCI A17 I bet it has a very good chance on your 3/16" mild steel!
A17's are 17 grain at 2650 FPS giving an Energy of 265 Ft-LBS, ve the Hornady V-Max.17 ammo is 17 grain going 2550 with Energy of 245 FT-Lbs, Win Super X 20 grain Game Point (looks like a low depth hollow point) traveling at 2375 gives an Energy of 229 Ft-Lbs , ...20 Ft-Lbs, 36 Ft-Lbs could make a difference when the hole is so tiny! What is needed here is a FMJ.