I'll stick with my 2005 Litespeed Vortex titanium bike with new components. It's only a few grams heavier than a new much more expensive carbon fiber bike.
The tech advancements in such a short time are certainly fascinating, but I think I’d rather Froome’s bike. It just looks easier for me to service and replace parts as I choose to. The newer bikes, whilst conforming to the manufacturer, look like they’re almost molded to the individual rider, and would be a pain to find parts for and service.
Being objective, the Pinarello is lighter, quicker uphill, simpler to maintain and a more comfortable frame. It was widely regarded in pro circles as one of the best riding frames of the modern era. The Cervelos allow wider tyres and are quicker on the flat, outside a peloton; they brake quicker in the wet. But they are more expensive, difficult to adjust, complex to pack for travel, harsher riding and heavier. Their brakes often squeal in the wet or when hot. They are slower uphill and slower to accelerate, though peak flat speed is higher for a given power. They are regarded in pro circles as harsh, fragile and awkward to maintain. The extra tyre/wheel width is a genuine improvement for most riders (but tubulars are available in wide sizes too and are lighter and smoother for size - hence pros still use them). Aero is excellent if you're seriously racing Fondos or road bike TTs. If you're just riding along/doing uphill STRAVA segments, travelling or racing at amateur level, an older bike is better. It just is. Find a pre-disc/integrated bike that takes 28mm tyres, and weighs an easy sub-7kg
If you are racing, you need a disc brake bike right now. I see people on rim brakes crash into the back of people on disc brakes all the time. And with most of the peleton racing on disc brakes it just becomes to dangerous. You just cannot brake as quick and as late with rim brakes as people on disc brakes.
Panic braking on disc brakes is dangerous and causes crashes, you got that right! Although you are blaming it on rim brakes, when it's the other way around. There has been a steep increase in crashes in the pro peloton because of disc brakes. Carbon rim brakes offer superior modulation, brake feel and sufficient stopping power.@@elmar7190
Have the 2013 Panarello 65.1 Think 2. Upgraded it to Sram Red AXS, Aero Bars and 45mm Fulcrum Speed wheels with 26mm Vittoria Corsa. Seems as good as any bike on the road.
I have a 2013 black on black dogma 65,1. With zipp 404s and sram red 10 speed. It’s more bike than I can ever take full advantage of. I’ll keep it for a few more years.
1-by in a road stage at the TdF was not completely unheard of: iirc there was a UCI Pro team invited to the Tour a couple years ago that was riding 3T Strada bikes (which were 1-by only). Oh, and I would totally choose Froome's bike, for the 'classic' look! :)
I was 200 metres from the top of Ventoux when Froome blew Quintana away to win the stage on his Dogma in 2013 but i would take the Cervelo 2023 model all day long 🚴🏻♂️
The Cervelo S5 is a time trial bike with road bike geometry. Carbon has given them the ability keep the weight to the minimum while massively improving the aerodynamics which used to weigh more.
2013 = Lighter frame sets. Lighter wheel sets. Easier maintenance. Easier wheel swaps for flats during races. Less prone to wheel lockups and crashes. 2023 = None of those things 🤔
While I don’t like tubeless. I really despise tubelars. Rimbrakes are great. As they don’t wear out my fancy wheels over time. Internal routing through the headset looks nice and clean. But it’s torture getting those brake lines through. Personally i prefer mechanical groupsets for keeping within budget. So internal is fine as long as it’s more or less just the downtube.
I'd probably go with the R5 because it can take in wider tires. I also slightly prefer using disc brakes, even with its added complexity, as it would open up the possibility for me to use carbon wheels (which I'd rather not for a rim brake bike).
Other than everyone having discs now, I don't see that the changes in 10 years have been that radical. If you want to see major changes, compare bikes from 1985 to those of 1995.
Maybe it's because I'm relatively new, the Pinarello looks positively old school. Not sure I'd have the S5 as I don't like the look of the V bar, but I sit firmly on the "new" end of the spectrum.
I had an old school 2008 carbon/dura-ace bike and switched to cervelo 2021 Caledonia-5 /Di2 - and the difference in the ride quality - comfort and stiffness is huge - modern bikes are better. Only maintenance is more expensive … it took me two days to change the stem - I had to buy extra tools and replace Hydraulik brake cable - a lot of work.
I wonder what advancements the next 10 years will bring. Disc brakes were certainly a big deal for road bikes, but now that they're nearly standard and bikes are already vero aero, I struggle to think of what could possibly be "the next big thing".
Hmmm, seems like the 3TTT 1X bike was just a bit before its time... happily take Froomie's bike if it were given to me, tho who would say no to either Cervelo.??😜
Always found the Pinarellos to be ugly bikes, can't see the attraction, saying that Cervelo do not appeal to me either, but much prefer the bikes of today than what was offered by Pinarello back then.
This video is making 2013 sound like 1983.. Let's be honest, the Dogma is far from a classic looking frame, it was one of the more elaborate designs of the time. They also used aero wheels en masse, just perhaps not in the mountains. A lot of the modern road bike trends were already maturing and curing then, except the disks and integrated everything.
Don't like the Cervelo at all, sets you up for a nasty crash if the disks lock up - I am going with the DOGMA every time, I would honestly prefer the F10 / F12 with electronic shifting - this would make a great video shoot out - say dual pivot rim F12 version vs a new Cervelo S5 disc; the dual pivot rim brake systems are undoubtedly the very best compromise for strong, robust and safe braking while not having the danger of lock up with the inevitable ensuing crash. The gearing set up is always best with 2X - front and either 11-30 for 11-34 Dura Ace, for really hilly terrain my choice world be 52/30 front chain rings and 11- 34 cluster.
new bikes are havier, less aero, more expensive and hard to fix mechanical problems. You can lost a race waiting your mechanic change your disc brakes wheels.
You can also loose a race by falling on a descent. Disk brakes brake faster, more reliably, and don’t fade. Those factors alone make them much better for racing. If they were really worse, why would the entire tour use them?
Rim brakes, super easy to maintain and stop your bike on a dime. Not to mention framesets do not have to be overly engineered to account for disc brake forces hence making the bike ride like shit.
Not apparent any of those changes increase performance. For example disc brakes weigh more and have constant issues, and can't be adjusted on the fly by the rider. Froome opposed them for years. Riders have been forced to adopt them by the bike manufacturers. No advantage, and an answer to a non-existent problem.
Pinarello is a brilliant bike if you don't want to take out a gym membership for the off-season. Hideous curves and a weighty exterior aren't the stuff of dreams, the Pros ride them because they have to.
I'll take Froome's Pinarello. No stupid headset cable routing, no ugly aero frame tubes, no idiotic 1x drivetrain. And I still think that disc brakes are unnecessary on road bikes
They are unnecessary for normal riders, but the increased braking power means that you can brake a little bit later on descents. Marginal gains for a pro rider.
I like the wider tyres. Everything else sucks and seems gimmicky. It’s so hard to into bike gear now that we can see behind the curtain and into the Chinese factory
Its still not answering the massive increased speeds and W/KG records they're setting ... It's from questionable, sciences of ketones, peptides, and other cellular hacks
Unless you're a pro rider, the bike makes very little difference. You could put me on both of these bikes--fitted to me specifically--and time my ride up virtually any well known climb in the TdF and there would be very little time difference between the two runs. 90%+ of amateur riders just aren't riding at a level where these subtle "improvements" on the bike itself would make much if any difference. I own 40+ bikes... almost all full carbon road bikes from the past 10 to 15 yrs. Most of them pretty high end. And I like them all in different ways for different rides and different reasons. But none of them are really "faster" than the others. I'm still the engine... I'm still the weak link.
Which would you have? The more classic 2013 bike of Froome or Vingegaard’s fully up-to-date machine?
I prefer the modern bikes but my favorite is not the Cervelo
@@christopheparisse9499 likewise - it's not a good looking bike
I’d take Pogacar Colnago
@@drsimon5416 In my top 3 favorites
I'll stick with my 2005 Litespeed Vortex titanium bike with new components. It's only a few grams heavier than a new much more expensive carbon fiber bike.
Vingegaard's 2023 S5 without a doubt! Love the S5 style and me being Canadian, well that doesn't hurt the bike brand.
Nice to hear that my 2013 Pinarello 65.1 is still a sought out bike. A 10 year old bike and I still get compliments.
The tech advancements in such a short time are certainly fascinating, but I think I’d rather Froome’s bike. It just looks easier for me to service and replace parts as I choose to.
The newer bikes, whilst conforming to the manufacturer, look like they’re almost molded to the individual rider, and would be a pain to find parts for and service.
Froome's 2013 Pinarello all the way!!!!
The new Cervelo everyday of the week without question
The oval chainring is actually more of a Chris Froome thing, he swears by it and still runs it these days 😅
Which is fine. It worked for him on his prime.
Since Froome s bike is lighter and just as Aero as anyone needs and easier to maintain I choose the DOGMA
Being objective, the Pinarello is lighter, quicker uphill, simpler to maintain and a more comfortable frame. It was widely regarded in pro circles as one of the best riding frames of the modern era. The Cervelos allow wider tyres and are quicker on the flat, outside a peloton; they brake quicker in the wet. But they are more expensive, difficult to adjust, complex to pack for travel, harsher riding and heavier. Their brakes often squeal in the wet or when hot. They are slower uphill and slower to accelerate, though peak flat speed is higher for a given power. They are regarded in pro circles as harsh, fragile and awkward to maintain. The extra tyre/wheel width is a genuine improvement for most riders (but tubulars are available in wide sizes too and are lighter and smoother for size - hence pros still use them). Aero is excellent if you're seriously racing Fondos or road bike TTs. If you're just riding along/doing uphill STRAVA segments, travelling or racing at amateur level, an older bike is better. It just is. Find a pre-disc/integrated bike that takes 28mm tyres, and weighs an easy sub-7kg
Wow, somebody with their head screwed on right! Chapeau!
The pinarello is heavier then the Cervélo R5. 6.89kg was the weight on kuss’s bike (R5) the S5 is 7.12 on avg weight.
If you are racing, you need a disc brake bike right now. I see people on rim brakes crash into the back of people on disc brakes all the time. And with most of the peleton racing on disc brakes it just becomes to dangerous. You just cannot brake as quick and as late with rim brakes as people on disc brakes.
Panic braking on disc brakes is dangerous and causes crashes, you got that right! Although you are blaming it on rim brakes, when it's the other way around. There has been a steep increase in crashes in the pro peloton because of disc brakes. Carbon rim brakes offer superior modulation, brake feel and sufficient stopping power.@@elmar7190
A S5 with 28mm TL tires is way more comfortable than a Pinarello with 23mm tubular tires. And easier to maintain too ;-)
Froome was using a 36t small chainring and a 34t large sprocket during the 2014 Vuelta...stage 16 to La Farrapona.
Have the 2013 Panarello 65.1 Think 2. Upgraded it to Sram Red AXS, Aero Bars and 45mm Fulcrum Speed wheels with 26mm Vittoria Corsa. Seems as good as any bike on the road.
Sorry for the typo
So beautiful, makes me happy just to look at it ;)
I have a 2013 black on black dogma 65,1. With zipp 404s and sram red 10 speed. It’s more bike than I can ever take full advantage of. I’ll keep it for a few more years.
2023 Cervelo R5 would be my pick. And I’ll take the 33 cassette as well!
1-by in a road stage at the TdF was not completely unheard of: iirc there was a UCI Pro team invited to the Tour a couple years ago that was riding 3T Strada bikes (which were 1-by only). Oh, and I would totally choose Froome's bike, for the 'classic' look! :)
Aqua Blue
The sport has gone backwards. Great job UCI. 🤙
Dura Ace 9000, Sram red 22, old 5 bolt campy cranks
I was 200 metres from the top of Ventoux when Froome blew Quintana away to win the stage on his Dogma in 2013 but i would take the Cervelo 2023 model all day long 🚴🏻♂️
Defo Chris Froome's bike and I still have Osymetric rings! Also 6 feet 2 so the Pinarello is my size! ;-)
The Cervelo S5 is a time trial bike with road bike geometry. Carbon has given them the ability keep the weight to the minimum while massively improving the aerodynamics which used to weigh more.
By that logic, the entire peloton is on TT bikes with road bike geometry.
Aero bikes are faster, so everyone rides them.
2013 = Lighter frame sets. Lighter wheel sets. Easier maintenance. Easier wheel swaps for flats during races. Less prone to wheel lockups and crashes.
2023 = None of those things 🤔
2023: faster
While I don’t like tubeless. I really despise tubelars.
Rimbrakes are great. As they don’t wear out my fancy wheels over time.
Internal routing through the headset looks nice and clean. But it’s torture getting those brake lines through.
Personally i prefer mechanical groupsets for keeping within budget. So internal is fine as long as it’s more or less just the downtube.
@@daphnedh9086 I think you mean disk brakes? Rim brakes are the ones that wear down your rims.
i do own dogma 65.1 and love it. maybe in 10 years could afford cervelo 2023 🤣🤣
I'd probably go with the R5 because it can take in wider tires. I also slightly prefer using disc brakes, even with its added complexity, as it would open up the possibility for me to use carbon wheels (which I'd rather not for a rim brake bike).
What can I say, "Cervelo" got really lucky with the team. There are no bad bikes in the pro peloton. But no doubt, the best looking one is SL7 :).
Other than everyone having discs now, I don't see that the changes in 10 years have been that radical. If you want to see major changes, compare bikes from 1985 to those of 1995.
Maybe it's because I'm relatively new, the Pinarello looks positively old school.
Not sure I'd have the S5 as I don't like the look of the V bar, but I sit firmly on the "new" end of the spectrum.
Hey, :)
Nice Video, where did you get the images from? 9:01
I am always searching for images for my Chanel as well.
I'll take a dogma 65.1, thanks
I had an old school 2008 carbon/dura-ace bike and switched to cervelo 2021 Caledonia-5 /Di2 - and the difference in the ride quality - comfort and stiffness is huge - modern bikes are better. Only maintenance is more expensive … it took me two days to change the stem - I had to buy extra tools and replace Hydraulik brake cable - a lot of work.
Depends…if the Pinarello comes with the batteries included it’s real value for money 😂
I wonder what advancements the next 10 years will bring. Disc brakes were certainly a big deal for road bikes, but now that they're nearly standard and bikes are already vero aero, I struggle to think of what could possibly be "the next big thing".
automatic gears, set to cadence and power parameters.
Oval chainrings were never widely used, Froome and Wiggins were pretty much the only prominent riders using them
Hmmm, seems like the 3TTT 1X bike was just a bit before its time...
happily take Froomie's bike if it were given to me, tho who would say no to either Cervelo.??😜
Froomes bike, rim brakes for life
I'd have a Factor.
why not use grip brakes if its not raining? isent it lighter?
Is 26 inch wheel and 15 in frame good for 5ft 4in person
Always found the Pinarellos to be ugly bikes, can't see the attraction, saying that Cervelo do not appeal to me either, but much prefer the bikes of today than what was offered by Pinarello back then.
This video is making 2013 sound like 1983.. Let's be honest, the Dogma is far from a classic looking frame, it was one of the more elaborate designs of the time. They also used aero wheels en masse, just perhaps not in the mountains. A lot of the modern road bike trends were already maturing and curing then, except the disks and integrated everything.
Picking the Pinarello over the Cervélo anyday of the week ❤
Definitely Vingegaard's S5 2023
I take Jonas bike! Looking fast!!😂
2023 model all the way. Would immediately sell it and use the money to buy the 2013 model (which is lighter and faster) plus a new car.
Id take the s5. Could sell it for more money
The olf Frooms one is def the winner here
Don't like the Cervelo at all, sets you up for a nasty crash if the disks lock up - I am going with the DOGMA every time, I would honestly prefer the F10 / F12 with electronic shifting - this would make a great video shoot out - say dual pivot rim F12 version vs a new Cervelo S5 disc; the dual pivot rim brake systems are undoubtedly the very best compromise for strong, robust and safe braking while not having the danger of lock up with the inevitable ensuing crash. The gearing set up is always best with 2X - front and either 11-30 for 11-34 Dura Ace, for really hilly terrain my choice world be 52/30 front chain rings and 11- 34 cluster.
I ride a Cervelo R3… so the CERVELO, of ccourse.
Wouldn’t say no to either bike!
I’ll keep my fully self-serviceable 2019 S-Works Tarmac SL6 with rim brakes tyvm… got two disc brake bikes also… simply doesn’t feel as good.
I’ll take both please 😂
Definitely Froome's bike
Yes through out there the 1x thing when he only made time when he used the 2x setup, even on the tt he had a 2x!
Ask the mechanic s what they prefer and the Rider s,we already know they kite weight and mechanically simpler
new bikes are havier, less aero, more expensive and hard to fix mechanical problems. You can lost a race waiting your mechanic change your disc brakes wheels.
You can also loose a race by falling on a descent. Disk brakes brake faster, more reliably, and don’t fade. Those factors alone make them much better for racing.
If they were really worse, why would the entire tour use them?
I prefer Froom's Pinarello
Rim brakes, super easy to maintain and stop your bike on a dime. Not to mention framesets do not have to be overly engineered to account for disc brake forces hence making the bike ride like shit.
Same. Absolutely amazing matching that is easy to maintain and adjust. Plus, that shape! 👍
Rim brakes supremacy!
Vingegaard's 2023 R5 bike.
I'd prefer the SOLOIST in full Red and reserves w/2X, but beggers can't be choosers.
Not apparent any of those changes increase performance. For example disc brakes weigh more and have constant issues, and can't be adjusted on the fly by the rider. Froome opposed them for years. Riders have been forced to adopt them by the bike manufacturers. No advantage, and an answer to a non-existent problem.
Brake fading on Carbon wheels on longue moutain downhill was a problem.
@@alexandreboyenval3140 yes, rim brakes on carbon wheels not good, cept for the ones with the metal rim.
Cervello all the way
i prefer Merckx bike. Reynolds 531 pro and Campagnolo record C. Lemonds 1986 was nicer than these modern things too
In tdf 2023 Vingegaard used vittoria corsa pro tubular (not tubeless)
Pinarello is a brilliant bike if you don't want to take out a gym membership for the off-season. Hideous curves and a weighty exterior aren't the stuff of dreams, the Pros ride them because they have to.
Froom's bike was definitely much better - you could ride it and also run without it if needed 😉
2 by Cervelo of JV
I'll take Froome's Pinarello. No stupid headset cable routing, no ugly aero frame tubes, no idiotic 1x drivetrain. And I still think that disc brakes are unnecessary on road bikes
They are unnecessary for normal riders, but the increased braking power means that you can brake a little bit later on descents. Marginal gains for a pro rider.
@@sardendibsthey also let you avoid really big fuck ups… which is important for causal riders.
The improved safety is worth the cost.
@@jaggerwinkler1195 Agree. It's a nicer experience riding with the smooth modulation of hydraulic disc brakes.
Froomes bike. Let the retrogrouching begin.
Disc brakes are significantly slower in the wind tunnel so manufacturers had to make up for it somehow by going crazy with tube shapes.
Yeah because the dogma’s wavy tube shaping with rim brakes is MORE SUBLTE than the bikes of now 😂
2023
Froomes 2013
The motors invisible
“Been optimized to be aerodynamic” also uses disc brakes
I like the wider tyres. Everything else sucks and seems gimmicky. It’s so hard to into bike gear now that we can see behind the curtain and into the Chinese factory
why would you EVER need such a bike=?!
froomies Bike anyday.....
any bike without shitmano…
neither, I am happy with my Fairlight Cycles Secan-gravelbike
froome 2013
My 20 dollar legs couldn’t justify anybody’s 20 grand bike…..
Froome' Pinarello.
I'd pick the Pinarello any day of the week, a real lightweight racing bike. Not a wannabe cyclo cross bike with road tyres lol
bikes became stupendeously expensive,barely serviceable and heavier
when will people start to boycot stupid products ?
Froomes bike all day everyday
Its still not answering the massive increased speeds and W/KG records they're setting ... It's from questionable, sciences of ketones, peptides, and other cellular hacks
jonas doesnt use ketones
We need someone to talk and share what their new secrets are.
Ah yes "I can't do what they're doing therefore they're cheating." Ride your bike more bro you'll be happier.
@@randomdude4620 not what his team said 🤷🏻♂️
@@jonathanzappala hehe lol
Fromme‘s
I'd never buy a bike that has the word think.2 in its name
Unless you're a pro rider, the bike makes very little difference. You could put me on both of these bikes--fitted to me specifically--and time my ride up virtually any well known climb in the TdF and there would be very little time difference between the two runs. 90%+ of amateur riders just aren't riding at a level where these subtle "improvements" on the bike itself would make much if any difference. I own 40+ bikes... almost all full carbon road bikes from the past 10 to 15 yrs. Most of them pretty high end. And I like them all in different ways for different rides and different reasons. But none of them are really "faster" than the others. I'm still the engine... I'm still the weak link.
Make it one bike for the whole tour.