Thanks for talking about this. I see that a lot of makers are dismissive of the health concerns. I hope that public perception and pressure changes enough to make manufacturers more safety focused.
It's unfortunately a human brain thing in general. Familiarity breeds carelessness. When we do something and it doesn't have immediate consequences, the human brain has a tendency to interpret that as meaning it was safe. We evolved to assess immediate threats, not stuff like increased risk of cancer or respiratory problems over time.
A fun little phenomena that has been shown off a few times in the Voron community is the horrific levels of grime the removable acrylic enclosure plates on the frame accumulate, particularly when printing a lot of ABS/ASA. I cleaned my panels recently and saw it for myself. Wiping anything on a 3D printer down with a paper towel and pulling away a brown smear is... concerning, to say the least.
I've seen that too. It's crazy! better that it gets deposited on the walls of the printer than your lungs, but still demonstrates the importance of air filtration and ventilation!
@@daliasprints9798 PETG isn't better than ABS/ASA just a different use case. PETG is more heat tolerant than PLA, but not as tolerant as ABS/ASA. Also, PETG is a lot more ductile than ABS/ASA and PLA, so it isn't suited to all structural components.
I considered this when I got my first printer, even with PLA I thought "hmm, everyone says it's safe but I'm still burning plastic, soo...". So I got an enclosure even for PLA, not to mention that my 1st few prints without one started irritating my throat and eyes. And being in the same room with the X1C I got a few months back and printing PETG, I felt some irritation in my eyes. You gotta love all the armchair scientists and keyboard warriors that argue against these kind of videos too, just telling people anecdotes of "Welll I print ASA un-enclosed, and I'm perfectly fine, don't worry about the fearmongering." We need more info about this kind of thing, and not many other 3D Printing TH-camrs are getting this deep into saftey, so please keep the videos and info coming and thank you for doing the work.
Also when people say "PLA is odorless" but then whenever I change nozzles (which requires heating the hotend to 250-280 C), or when I print PETG at 240 after previously printing PLA, I can usually smell 'burnt plastic' for a few minutes afterwards, probably from whatever tiny amounts of PLA were left in the hotend.
@Tennouseijin maybe it's just me, but I can smell all filaments I've tried so far. PLA is a very clear sweet smell combined with a subtle smell of melted plastic, and it always messes with my throat and eyes within about 15-30 min of exposure. PETG is far more subtle, only way I can describe it is similar to above without the sweet smell, more like a very faint rubbery smell, best I can describe it with the plastics related words I have heard lol and this one irritates my eyes more, but can feel subtle phlegm and mucus build up with enough exposure.. PC smells more chemical, again subtle but like a different kind of melting plastic smell, and those fumes got me lightheaded within minutes of exposure. The PLA I only print on my non enclosed sovol, the others I print in my X1C typically. Anything I print in my Ender 3v3 with grow tent enclosure and carbon filtered exhaust doesn't bother me too much. All of this is with home AC going, portable AC (Texas heat in an apartment on top floor, so both) going with vent hose to window, and a HEPA/Carbon air purifier in the room. Next step is adding a window mounted reversible fan, should make everything better.
Next I’ll have to start doing quizzes that force you to rewatch the video if you don’t get at least 80% of the questions right. It will be great for my view counts!
Thank Goodness I have been running 2 Large Room Hepa Filters in the studio for the past 2 years. I learned my lesson when running a 19 hour ABS print with NO ventilation in the room and filters off. Lightheaded is an understatement.
@@NathanBuildsRobots It would be interesting to test ABS/ASA printing for VOCs with the Nevermore Scorch filter material which claims to be able to break down styrene and other toxins.
@@evropapagan5551well even if it breaks down a good majority of styrene and such, some will inevitably bypass it, and the broken down particles will likely still not be great for you. So if you're wanting clean air, enclose and exhaust.
"These companies are making millions if not billions" Reminder that certain 2D printers are also creating heavy emissions and it's usually ignored. Not sure how much research/warnings there are provided by HP for their Laser printers, but the PM2.5 and VOC of those are awful as well.
Most modern office buildings have pretty good ventilation, but I can see how it would be problematic in older buildings like the ones at some universities.
Wonder how much our giant xerox was dumping in the office… that printer got a lot of use. I was in charge of ordering supplies for it and there was no filters to replace.
I remember going to my dad's office in the late 80s and being able to smell the copy machine toner when I walked in the door, besides the machines themselves I think a lot of it just came from copies offgassing in the banks of file cabinets.
Nathan, I know this information is really hard for some people to hear, but it's great you're actually tackling the content. I think we have all been happily ignorant in not wanting to find out how harmful it really is. But in the end of the day, we should all be careful and make these companies do better in protecting it's users.
My goal is to have a video for people to point at that has information and test data to back it up. No marketing crap or shilling a specific brand or trying to make it into a story. Just the basics of what particles are, how they are dispersed and deposited in the air, and what happens to them while using a small printer running PLA. Also people need to think about what’s in the filament. If you don’t know, you can’t be certain that it’s safe to breathe. What if they have Red lead based pigments? Nobody knows what’s exactly in them except the manufacturers, and they have a bias to not disclose if there were harmful additives.
@@alfarofilms anecdotal comment:: i recently got an ender 3 v3 SE and had it running in my bedroom, I usually open the window and run a double window fan but it was hot I ran a print with the windows close and I felt sick, it was black PLA. I have one of those ikea PM2.5 sensors and it stayed in the green the whole time but I swear I felt sick and headachy . that was the last print I did. also Reddit is literal cancer.
@andreamitchell4758 yeah I think unless you spend quite a bit on a sensor, they're inconsistent af. I have a sensor too but it's gone into all red levels when nothing is even happening a couple times, so Idk if I can trust it. But I trust my body, and my body along with my brain tell me that melting plastics of any kind is not something to be breathing, no matter what anyone says. I mean people smoke cigarettes, I smoked them for over a decade, and I always knew they were bad but then eventually my chest would randomly hurt, so that's when I decided enough was enough. But we KNOW what's in those. I'm not waiting until my chest is hurting from plastic before deciding to do something about it lol
That’s a great idea. Remember that the tent walls will collect dust and it would probably be best to turn the vent on whenever you open (even when the printers are turned off) it to keep it relatively contained
Moral of this story, companies should have safety and health in mind, sell enclosed systems with proper filters. How long have you been printing and breathing those particles Nathan?
I’ve always had a hepa filter, so I don’t think I’ve huffed too much. But ventilation, filtration, and exposure is always something we should always be considerate of.
@@NathanBuildsRobots For me as a beginner this info is very valuable. I have seen so many people on YT with small or even larger print farms where those machines are stacked in a room and producing. So it is good that you share this info so that this really becomes known. Personally i was rooting for a Flashforge because it has those filters and is an enclosed system but the buildvolume has witheld me from buying it. I did get the chance to buy a second hand Sovol SV06 which is actually a very neat and friendly little machine and now i know what to expect and how strong a printed part can be. But more importantly, i now know that despite being inexperienced that i am able to print parts without problems.
@@NathanBuildsRobots I believe that VOC's are bigger risk and you need a good carbon filter for that. plus you forgot to mention that the printers themselves are probably off gassing dangerous fumes. 500F is above what is recommended for PFOA PTFE coated pans and I bet there is lots of hidden as well as disclosed PFOA PTFE material used the manufacturer of these printers we know about boden tubes and there is some I some of throat pieces and I am willing to bet it finds its way into bed coatings and other parted exposed to high temps as well. OF course if someone own a pet bird then this should become immediately obvious. A literal canary in the coal mine test is in order, JK that would be cruel. Seriously I wonder if anyone has had a pet bird die from running a printer in an enclosed space or just in their house and made the connection yet. I have run a printed in my BR with windows closed once I did feel very sick , my Ikea PM2.5 was in the green the whole time though so I suspect that "teflon flu" and/or VOC's were to blame for this. maybe you can reach out to a 3D printing channel that is on a MCN and has big budget that will send different filaments for independent GCMS testing, but somehow i don't think their sponsors will approve of that very much.
I have a couple different air quality monitoring systems in my 3D printing room. My sensors go craziest when I dispense one single spray of Isopropyl Alcohol compared to anything else. Thankfully I put ventilation in the room when I had it built, but I've been looking to upgrade it. Keep spreading the good word though. And by the way, when I asked my local HVAC company they laughed at me, and told me "I have been breathing fumes my whole life, nothing is wrong with me!" ...
@@couryrussell7653 it's toxic yes, but more so if you drink it. Heavy fumes can hurt you, but you will feel the effects before you get hurt. Just don't lock yourself in a room with fumes. lni.wa.gov/safety-health/preventing-injuries-illnesses/hazardalerts/IsopropylAlcoholInDisinfectants.pdf Isopropyl Alcohol is one of the safer ones, but I do agree that grain ethanol would be better if governments allowed it.
Fortunately, I only mod my printers and don't actually print anything. Maybe I should switch over to something safer like consumer grade laser engravers.
Another great video worth watching about safety!👏I came to the same conclusions. Since many years, I run my studio printers inside cabinets with full air exhaust directly outdoors. At least a good HEPA filter (ideally also with an activated charcoal layer for VOCs) makes a huge difference.
"he who has not tasted grapes says sour" I have been breathing in many plastic fumes for years and can tell you nothing smells better than PA12 when it is being injection molded, what a beautiful smell it is
How anyone can sleep with a 3D printer making a racket in their bedroom I don't get. But then there was that kid who nearly died of heatstroke mining crypto in his bedroom during hot weather.
True. The motors might be quiet but those small high speed fans make it still sound like a large industrial machine running next to you while trying to sleep. At least on my Ender 3 V2 the fans have this howling sound to them making it a really irritating noise.
@@johnpekkala6941 If you upgrade your Ender 3 hot end with a better part cooling fan and a duct, you can run the fan very low. On mine I also added a buck converter to lower the voltage of the always-on fan by about half. Add to that silent drivers on a new main board, and you have a whisper quiet machine.
This is great! Please keep at it. There will be lots of angry folks hearing this and trolling you, but it's really important stuff. It's not going to help you get any sponsorships from Elegoo or Creality, but we have enough youtubers working for them already. People need to hear this stuff, and we probably need an even more dumbed down version of a video like this that sums up, or grades the level of risk posed by consumer 3d printing. (Not taking anything away from this video, it's brilliant)
The first month I got my 3D printer and basically printed in an enclosed room 24/7 while I was in it. I then somehow paralyzed one of my vocal cords. Doctors had no idea why, kept asking if I got into a car crash or something. ButI highly believe it was because I was so close to my printer for so long in open air. It's now all enclosed and vented outside now and my vocal cord thankfully healed!
I love that you made this video and I was wondering about this myself. But one thing that I didn’t see you talk about out is what effect enclosed printers have on air quality. Because I have a MK4 with the enclosure and their HEPA filter system. It’s currently in my room and I was wondering how safe that is. I would love it if you could make a follow up video to this one testing different methods of filtering the fumes with different methods to see what the best way is and seeing how effective current methods are.
I keep 2 filters going constantly in the rooms with printers then have good ventilation. Used to have all printers in an enclosed shelving system I made with filtration but got a few more since then so several arent in there. Whole house has air flow. Colder air from behind the house where its shaded is sucked in filtered and the exhaust is in the front of the house always got a slight breeze which Is nice in the summer. Have a couple nice standalone air filters throughout the house too and the main forced air has good hospital level filtration. Ive got bad lungs already so I try to keep my air fresh and clean.
Wow i could have skiped all of the 20 videos i watched before and still got all my main questions covered in one. THANK YOU so much. Please more content Like this. And maybe an Update if needed.
A Corsi-Rosenthal filter system is great for sawdust but it is NOT going to filter the particles that 3D printing puts out. This is why a HEPA filter is recommended to be used. By the way, did you know that cooking a meal on your stove increases VOCs?
Yes, I have some pictures of the meter while I cooked an egg on a gas stove. The particulates had an extremely high spike during cooking, even with my overhead range vent on. However, it dissipated pretty quickly once cooking was done.
Weeeeell... I am glad I stumbled upon this video right before I got my first 3D printer... which I can only use in my bedroom... I mean, I already constantly work with isopropyl alcohol and lighter fluid and a bunch of other chemicals, so getting a filter is probably a very good idea even without the 3D printer.
My line of work involves me wearing respirators and dealing with crystalline silica in various forms. These particles can do the same damage to your lungs as crystalline silica.
It would be interesting if you could run some filament through it's printable 'ranges' of temperatures, and see how VOC and PPM change as a function of time, just how much worse is it to be running hot, etc.
Thank you for your nuanced explanations. It's always tempting with these kinds of things to feel like you have to choose between total complacency and total catastrophizing. I wish this kind of thing were just regulated enough in the first place that we didn't have to resort to citizen science to figure out how much poison is too much poison, but I appreciate the work you've done to make the subject more understandable.
Thanks for covering this! I've read about this topic back when I first started 3D printing and ever since then I have always kept a HEPA air filter running next to my printer at all times. Overall it's a pretty cheap safety precaution in the grand scheme of things.
Thank you for making this video. It's really shocking how many people think PET is in any way "safe" when it is literally made of phthalates that get released on any chain scission degradation. The one thing that really concerns and scares me the most, is this whole "recycling" and re-using craze. No-one seems to care about (or maybe understand?) just how detrimental plastic recycling already is from a consumer health and safety standpoint: There are many obvious safety issues, most important of which is consumer storage and use conditions that causes Molecular Weight (MW) degradation and chemical/heavy-metal contamination of the polymer matrix; However, what I want to highlight is how the recycling process itself, both from the mechanical grinding/chopping up of plastics as well as the thermal re-melting, reduces the average molecular weight of the polymers that make it up. This leads to significantly increased microplastic shedding from new consumer goods, right from the start of the product's life. Most plastic products were only safe for long-term human and food contact, precisely because they would be landfilled long before their maximum designed life expectancy and chemical durability was reached or exceeded, thus stopping the breakdown (from sun exposure and mechanical wear) into and release of chemically active microplastics (i.e. with uncapped or unterminated chains, or even exposed additives from the fractured matrix). It's getting more and more difficult, at an alarming rate, to find safe products that don't contain very low MW polymers and/or post-consumer chemicals (or even heavy metal contamination in the 10-100 ppm range) right from the manufacturer. For example, problematic products I've detected new contamination from are things like pillows, toothbrush bristles, bottled water, food-contact "safe" disposable plastic bags and packaging, clothing; with carpets, soft fibrous towels and blankets being the worst of all. I just *really* hope that in 5-10 years we'll have even a single source of pure, virgin, high MW polymer filaments that don't continue to generate dangerous microplastic aerosols after being printed, just from light, indoor use.
What are some good resources to learn about this? From my reading PET and PETG are composed of polymerized tetrapthalate, but from my research most sources say that it is chemically different than pthalates and isn’t a safety concern
Give me a break. Don’t tell me you’re afraid of plastic water bottles…. Or maybe you don’t drink Water because it contains Hygrogen D: What a scary name! Please go back to university and attend a couple Chem classes.
Cheers for this. I'm moving into a new apartment in October with my boyfriend, and I'm beginning to think seriously about the long term printer setup. A HEPA filter and proper ventilation is now on my list of things I am going to be certain to sort out, since the printer will be in our office/gaming room. Plus when it comes to pets in the future, I want good health for them as well as us humans
I was really impressed by how effective a large HEPA filter is. when I was doing my tests in my 4 Printhead printer, my meter was reading 0 for PM2.5 particulates and I thought it was broken. Turns out it’s just insanely good at filtering the air. I specced out a super overkill solution for my office and I’m glad I did. At full power it recirculates the entire volume of my office air every minute.
@@NathanBuildsRobots Particulates are important, but I'm curious about VOC filtration. I'm sure nothing beats active ventilation but it would be great to know what the filtering of VOCs is for various filtering media, eg HEPA, HEPA + charcoal, etc. This PSA topic is ripe for a whole series including VOC emissions by filament material (PLA, PETG, PC, ABS, etc) and also various types of the most commonly used material - PLA. I'm sure the additives in stuff like silk PLA are actually curative in nature, I mean, how could something so pretty be unhealthy?
I have my bambu x1c printer in my room luckily I have a coway hepa filter running 24/7 and have stuck to only printing pla, tpu and nylon. I'm looking into printing more engineering filaments for my combat robot so I'm glad the filter removes most particles. Nylon smells surprisingly nice, it's kinda sweet.
I do have a 3d printer in my bedroom, and an air quality sensor next to it (measuring PM1.0, PM2.5 and PM10). So far I haven't seen any concerning numbers while printing, although I've only printed PLA, PETG, and small amounts of TPU. I do keep my window partially open while printing, and I did build the Lack enclosure for it, so that's probably helping. Also, props to Prusa for doing research on the health hazards of 3d printing.
As you showed in the video, a good indicator of how much a manufacturer of filament gives a shit about health and safety is not only if they provide an SDS but how detailed/transparent that SDS is, especially the chemical composition section. UL, FDA and other safety certifications of filament are exceptionally rare unfortunately either due to cost, laziness, some "common/traditional" knowledge of certain materials being generally recognized as "safe" (Curse of knowledge) or other reasons. For instance, I've always printed with PLA from either Hatchbox, Prusament, Protopasta or Microcenter's Inland in-house brand. All four are hit or miss on their SDSs and composition but you can pick up hints from experience, scientific/industry literature, trends or economies of scale of what's probably in them if not explicitly mentioned (e.g. If a black filament doesn't say what pigment its using, its highly likely it's using good ol' carbon black which isn't great because cancer risk but its cheap and well established in terms of production) Unfortunately there's still confounding factors that don't always make SDSs a sure-fire mark of safety (informed purchase). Filament manufacturers may not control well what upstream raw pellet stock/additives/pigment supplier(s) they buy from (and then who knows what that supplier puts into the pellets), various government regulations may let some things slide from being explicitly mentioned in SDSs under the entry of "trade secret" or other miscellaneous factors. Fortunately, the scientific body of knowledge and thus regulation is growing.
One of the first things I did when I got a 3D printer was to get an enclosure that I could ventilate to the outside. I printed the parts for the fan, ductwork and vent in PLA and they keep the inside of the enclosure at a negative pressure. I now print ABS and never smell anything with the enclosure closed. If I go outside to the window vent it reeks. So I'd say it works just fine.
I’m glad I’m air conscious and my A1 mini is running in a room with 2 quality air filters. This was very interesting as I figured melting plastic fumes must be an issue
I have one printer in an enclosure. Due to lack of space in my kitchen. Window always open of course. With the enclosure it is already a better option for me : )
I'm glad you are continuing to educate people about this topic. I certainly get a lot of dismissive attitudes when I advise enclosure, venting/air filtration or even fire safety devices. Many seem fine to let a cheap 3d printer run unattended and pumping out pollutants. I wish for everyone to Print Safe and do all you can to mitigate the hazards. Educating yourself on what those are is step one!!
Thanks for this video. You answered questions ive had for 3 years about air quality safety with 3d printers! Funny i just bought a bambu a1 mini this week : o ) and thank you for the hepa filter advice cuz this information needs to be out there just because its just basic safety. health is wealth ya know? And its completely viable and works great to make your own hepa filters with computer fans. we did that project last winter and it held up with testing/ comparing to expensive hepa filter machines , You just need to get the filters like you said and print a doodad to clip it to it! Happy, Safe prints world!
Just install non-silent board on your printer, and you will never want to place your printer in a bedroom, or at least you will sleep somewhere else. = )
I am very glad you made a video about this! I am printing in my living room for a few years now and never felt safe about the fumes and the dust coming from it. Since a year i have an semi enclosure with a fan and a hose to a nearby window with, i hope, enough under pressure to remove the particles. Tip: use incense to smell if a ventilaton/ filtration solution does the job! Tip2: Ikea has some really cheap air filters from around 30 bucks (and even better; cheap replacement around 4 bucks) for not real HEPA though but HEPA I believe which is an advantage (still 95 percent filtration and more silent ) They also have larger ones with carbon. and particle meters. Stil based on the insence smell test, active ventilation is far more effective.
Good to know. I run my printer in an enclosure with a Bento Box filter (HEPA & activated carbon), hopefully that is enough. Been thinking about moving it to the garage, though.
@@Metros23 It's a Cromgrow, which is basically the "grow tent" style enclosure. It's enough for some basic protection and to avoid drafts, but it's not air tight enough to allow it to become very hot, so more advanced materials can be a bit of a problem if you need high ambient air temperatures. The lack of being totally air tight is also why I'm considering moving it to the garage.
The only company I know to deal with toxic emissions 3d printing is Alveo3d, they have many types of HEPA 13, 14, with activated carbon. Sorry for all the links sponsor you put in the description, they are all products don't have any certificate, or some like that. Anyway, interesting topic to discuss.
By the way, if you haven't yet, getting a CO2 sensor was mind-blowing for me. Not really to do with 3d printers, but even in a fairly large apartment with occasionally opening the windows, the CO2 concentration easily reached 1.5ppm often. I now pretty much have a window or two open 24/7, even when it's relatively chilly outside.
Interesting! My house has terrible weather sealing, so I essentially have half a window open at all times. I don't like its affect on my heating bill, but maybe its a blessing in disguise since I probably always get a good amount of fresh air.
@@NathanBuildsRobots my flat is somewhat drafty and also has 4m+ high ceilings, so I thought it would be fine and mostly bought the CO2 sensor for fun as I read a fair bit about them in 2020/21. Never expected it to tell me anything of use, but it drastically changed my behavior re ventilation. I also had a relative work at home in a small 6m2 office with a door closed, and there the level was something like 2k ppm, insane. Not all CO2 sensors are good though, I got a $50 sensorion reference design that's a simple USB stick with blue tooth and a light indicator. Naomi Wu compared it with a bunch of other sensors and this was performed the best in terms of matching a high-end device. For VOCs and PM, I'm still looking for something that's both affordable and reliable.
My ventilation approach as an asthmatic with 2 printers in my home office (same office I work from home in) where I am only printing PLA, PETG and occasionally TPU - I have a transom fan in the window that I have in reverse, this is always on blowing air from inside outside. The printers are in a Lack tower about 6 ft from the window with the fan, I have a HEPA filter unit running below the lack tower. Also, the room next to the office is a bathroom with a whole house extractor fan that runs on a timer periodically. Still modelled my own CR style box with a PC tower form factor because I do not want potential dangers from my hobby to threaten my family. Garage is where I plan to run any printers for more known VOC emitters, even then I will have an extractor fan to the outside.
3D printer manufacturers really need to make them a lot safer, and easier to recycle or reuse filament to lower waste... Just wait till states like California make it illegal to 3D print or to ship filament to the state.
Just like a car exhaust pipe you see the soot around the pipe, Same for printers nozzlez depending on fan speed you can see the fairy floss soot around the nozzle. Especially at high temp and speed. Great video. I run a ceiling exhaust extractor fan to help vent the room faster. Abs you absolite notice the VOCs and PLa smells quite sweet amd that means you need more venting. Im very keen for ingredients list just like food packaging.
1000% we need this, I get so tired of the basic or lack of info on MSDS sheets from nearly ALL manufacturers. It's like they aren't even trying. Even Bambu, I mean just look at the MSDS for their Polycarbonate... Most people would read that and think "Oh it must be as safe as PLA and PETG then, cool" except PC fumes can be pretty hazardous, from what I've read up on it in research papers.
I just got a resin 3d printer. I spent X2 the money on an enclosure, air pump and ducting to filter the fumes outside. I have put the machine in the garage and wear an enclosed mask with voc filters that cost about $150, I have seen the health of people whom worked with resin in the boat building industry before pesky unions and health and safety. Those guys died hard. I took this up as a hobby but it's involved, I want a filament printer but I'm doing my due diligence before I jump in. I mainly want to make custom bits for my action figures and statues of character and spaceships. By the way, photo copiers and desk top printers are almost as bad as they use organic compounds in the inks and produce VOCs. I guess you just have to take a gamble with some of this stuff. Also, from what I understand a lot of this stuff is made in countries with less than stellar safety and environmental protections......so......
100%… Thanks For Doing this Nate. This often overlooked/neglected topic really does need to sink into the community mind. GET AIR FILTERS!.. Especially those People doing all night prints in their rooms.. (I have seen many at thrift stores that need little more than A filter change).🤙🏻
Nathan, very good series that I'd like you to continue. It would be nice if you can start reaching out to material engineers, health pros etc... As for the argument of "patented formulas" from manufacturers, I don't even think these are such million dollar secrets and that material engineers pretty much know how to use which additives to various specific ends. The secrecy would perhaps lie more in the manufacturing process and/or proportions of their mix. Even then, consumer protection is worth raising the issue it and perhaps motivate legislation for disclosure. Keep on !
I also noticed something to support your position, by measuring my HRV(heart rate variability) you can clearly tell when I'm in the same room as the printer when printing. HRV is a pretty sensitive indicator of health, specially if you are in a resting position while measuring.
I tend to think the dusty highway I live next to pretty much renders my lightly-used printer moot with all the plastics, metals, and (probably worst) crystalline silica, but really that's more a reason to have HEPA filters running in the whole house all the time than to disregard the printer.
This encouraged me to buy a respectable air quality monitor (AirGradient) that I can integrate with my smart home and help automate my filtration & ventilation. My indoor air quality logs will be interesting general once I have close up the windows for the long Canadian winter.
Voc can’t be filtered effectively, you can use catalyst to neutralize. Dyson makes a filter with catalyst, which does remove odours. Or just put a ventilator in a studio. I do both
I was wondering about this, there has to be some kind of catalyst that would help break down VOCs, similar to a catalytic converter. That's pretty badass that dyson makes one of these. It says it just does it for formaldahyde. I wonder if it works on other VOCs too.
Catalytic air cleaners need extremely high temps to work or need uv activated catalysts. It's best to just ventilate or use adsorbant materials like activated carbon or that purple stuff. You just need a large amount of it the mesh stuff is useless.
You should do this testing with different filaments at different temperatures. I feel like PLA at a low-ish temperature wouldnt be that bad without an enclosure
This is why I generally run my printers enclosed (Vorons) with activated carbon filters, and HEPA filters on the intake and exhaust. I also run a large HEPA filter for the whole room, and I print in my office at home, but I have moved my resin printing out to the garage. I really couldn't handle those fumes in the office anymore.
Tbh most of us can't afford our own place much less have a place big enough for a separate room for a printer. I guess the best option is having an enclosed printer, even better if it has a filter. I only print with PLA and there's 100% a smell every time and each brand or sometimes even color has a different smell. One time I was printing for a long time and only someone walking in from the outside mentioned the smell. Its not terrible but it's there and we don't know what's in those particles we smell... I can't really fix my situation, nor can I afford a new printer now so I guess I'll breathe in some more fumes for now. I do always have my window open and a fan running to introduce air flow so there's that... But at the same time that spreads the particles everywhere... What can you do.
From what I saw, not at all. My filter has activated charcoal beads in the filters and there was basically no difference to VOCs with it on or off. They might be saturated already, or maybe it requires higher concentrations for it to work, but I’ve always assumed it’s a marketing scam to include those
@@NathanBuildsRobots that's not too surprising. I was thinking more along the lines of a square of 4 PC fans with alright static pressure forcing air through an inch or so of loosely packed activated charcoal. I'm also sceptical of the dustbin sized HEPA filters, my CR box is four 24x20x4 in MERV 13 filters. I don't have a particle measurement device, but that's hopefully somewhat effective. For activated charcoal, I only did a brief bit of googling but it didn't seem very easy to find accessible information on what types there are, how often they need to be refreshed, etc.
@@NathanBuildsRobots would be interesting to see a video on this tested out, because I've heard the same thing, that some VOCs are too small for non industrial grade filters?
I have no other option but place the printer in my bedroom, wish I could put it elsewhere, but for the time being, I open a window and have a box-fan on the it that pulls fresh air from outside while the printer is running.
I'd love that, but the reason PLA no longer sucks as it used to is because more additives for toughness became common on it, not less. It'll be hard for people to go back to using the kind of crap that snaps in the roll 5 times per print.
I remember when I dismantled my acrylic enclosure that had forced air cooling for the mobo and PS, I found out there was an airleak on the backside of the enclosure that sprayed enclosure air onto the wall behind it and thus left a huge (4'x6') very dark soot spot onto the white paint after 2 years of printing, I vent my printer out the window now
Glad i keep my printers in my garage with a big HEPA filter. I usually run a box fan with the garage door open for a bit too before i work in there for extended periods too.
For info: some particle sensors don't really detect PM10, they just output a number based on PM5. If the two have a mostly constant ratio, there you are. It seems your does too.
Appreciate your work chief; the 3D printing community has a bad habit of treating important things like assumed knowledge so we don't explain the OHS stuff like you've been covering. Even I had assumed that comosite parts need a coating like you suggest to prevent embedding Another big one that makes me wary is how infrequently you see the important of using a deburring tool for remoiving supports, not a knife bc no matter how many years we've been using it, it's not the tool for the job and is probably the biggest risks (in terms of balancing the relative incidence rate and how severe it is if an accident happens) to safety
i have a single room studio with a bambu P1S farm with 17 machines on 2 racks I have setup a 4in trunk line on each of the 6 shelves that has a 2in line to a 3d printed adapter to the chamber fan on each machine. one end of each of the 4in lines ties into single 8in trunk duct this has medical grade H14 hepa filter and a active carbon before venting to a custom diverter box that has an ESP32 and temp sensors to controls if the air is vented outside or back inside this also reads the printer data and will only vent outside when a toxic flag is set. doing all this fixed my sleep and asthma problems that returned when i built the farm. i also have air quality sensors tide to the filter system
In my test without filtration, the particle count settled from 11,000 to 1,500 (which is only a little above baseline) in about 3 hrs. They fall out of the air and collect on the walls. I like having a filter because it traps them in the filter which you can later throw away.
Great video! Thanks for covering this! I recently bought a Bambu lab P1S over the A1, because the p1s is an enclosed printer with an activated carbon filter in front of the exhaust fan. When the door is closed I can barely smell the pla. But when I open the door it’s so strong. I do not regret getting the p1s even if it’s much more costly. Also plan on adding a custom filter behind the exhaust to snag more of the particles
Again, thanks for making this video. Awareness on this topic is very important. I believe my p100 respirator is similar in effectiveness to a hepa filter. Some of the cartridges for p100s actually are just small hepa filters inside. I like your idea of a cheap box fan with home depot filters to run in your work space.
One of the first things I 3D printed was a self contained carbon & hepa filter for my bambu labs X1. What’s worse though are laser cutters/engravers and the resin 3D printers. Those emit really toxic fumes where you need a gas mask for regular use. Definitely not bedroom friendly.
Glad to see people talking about it. I have a lot of random chemical sensitivities, so I'm like a canary in a coal mine, even PLA printing I can't be around for long before it starts to make me feel woozy. I know everyone else doesn't have those same issues, but I can't help but think if it makes me sick, there's a chance it's not completely safe for normal people too.
I don't wear anything but cotton. I used to get random rashes on my neck and back all my life. Eventually I narrowed it down to a specific sweater, and a few shirts that weren't polyester. Just last year I got rid of everything that wasn't pure cotton or wool and I've had no issues. Sometimes it takes a long time for people to even realize they are allergic or sensitive to something.
@@alfarofilms big cities are full of asbestos, brake pads are made of it and cars are in constant traffic using their brakes the streets literally lined with the stuff and if you live in NY you are getting an extra special bonus, when the WTC was demolished millions of tons of it were released and I bet a good amount still lingers on hat island to this very day, but don't worry, air is safu to breathe.
A small vent would work just as well, that just exhausts the dirty air out, especially if you already have an enclosure. Filters work great for getting rid of particles though, so if that's you main concern a good HEPA filter works wonders
Yeah, some people are resistant to taking basic safety precautions based on bad assumptions. Best case, they're right, and everythings fine. Worst case...
Hello. The study is interesting, it would have been worth supplementing with what other authors have determined over time on thermoplastics. In relation to the resin, the quality of the printing far beats that of thermoplastics, and on the side of the emissions produced in closed spaces, I have carried out studies and measurements. Even the measurements were comparative between commercial devices and systems developed by me with semi-professional or professional sensors. I'll try to help with what I know in a short time and maybe even though I haven't worked on my personal channel until now, maybe I'll try to reactivate it. The resin is not as harmful as the thermoplastic material or those with melted particles located or in the mass. With good.
One thing really pisses me off is how everyone on the internet says something different. As someone who doesn't have any knowhow on these things and shouldn't open his mouth, i need to know some facts and reality checks. There are many people on the internet that pretent to be some sort of expert in that field and saying things that are like "it's safe" or the opposite where they say they won't even print at home at all. And then there is a huge amount of TH-camrs who just know the safety risks and tell it to the viewers but then don't follow themselfes which makes a lot of people think it's like any other safety recommendation that doesn't mean a lot for many people. And then you have a alot of people that just blindly buy a printer by just watching 1 or 2 videos about someones crafts with it, so not doing any further research of what is it all about. And some of these videos showing things like touching uncured resin prints with bare hands and thus people buying those printers because watching that video doing the same thing. And when the time comes that someone in result get cancer or what ever, it's too far long time ago maybe to even build that connection or just doesn't matter any way because it's too late. By all the other dirt we have all around in big citys, there is a cancer chance any way which won't let you think you got it because you handeled 3d printers years the wrong way. And the worst part of all of this, even people who have nothing to do with these poor decisions get affected by this. Like when people put down uncured resin down the drain or animals that enter these printing rooms or little babys, kids who breath and eat that stuff because they parents print in a kitchen or with none food safe materials.
I know of a young fella whose job was 3d prinring parts as well as doing it as a hobby. He got cancer in his young twenties. I think it was from the fumes.
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Chubbyemu: ‘A man ate 5 rolls of PLA.This is what happened to his organs’
Pure PLA is bioabsorbable. There are some implants made and they disapperar in 1-3 years. So it's not even toxic.
Hahaha, yeah, I'd watch that.
The delicious maple syrup aroma of the forbidden spaghetti was just too tempting.
@@bernard2735 pure PLA is not toxic and it's even bioabsorbable
Nathan is chubbyemu's nerdy brother 🤣
Thanks for talking about this. I see that a lot of makers are dismissive of the health concerns. I hope that public perception and pressure changes enough to make manufacturers more safety focused.
It's unfortunately a human brain thing in general. Familiarity breeds carelessness. When we do something and it doesn't have immediate consequences, the human brain has a tendency to interpret that as meaning it was safe. We evolved to assess immediate threats, not stuff like increased risk of cancer or respiratory problems over time.
This video is absolutely since fiction
A fun little phenomena that has been shown off a few times in the Voron community is the horrific levels of grime the removable acrylic enclosure plates on the frame accumulate, particularly when printing a lot of ABS/ASA. I cleaned my panels recently and saw it for myself. Wiping anything on a 3D printer down with a paper towel and pulling away a brown smear is... concerning, to say the least.
I've seen that too. It's crazy! better that it gets deposited on the walls of the printer than your lungs, but still demonstrates the importance of air filtration and ventilation!
@@NefariousElasticity Makes me so glad I don't touch those materials. PET is better in almost every way and super clean to print.
@@daliasprints9798 PETG isn't better than ABS/ASA just a different use case. PETG is more heat tolerant than PLA, but not as tolerant as ABS/ASA.
Also, PETG is a lot more ductile than ABS/ASA and PLA, so it isn't suited to all structural components.
@@xandersnyder7214 I said PET not PETG.
@@xandersnyder7214 if only y0u could read... Lol
I considered this when I got my first printer, even with PLA I thought "hmm, everyone says it's safe but I'm still burning plastic, soo...". So I got an enclosure even for PLA, not to mention that my 1st few prints without one started irritating my throat and eyes. And being in the same room with the X1C I got a few months back and printing PETG, I felt some irritation in my eyes.
You gotta love all the armchair scientists and keyboard warriors that argue against these kind of videos too, just telling people anecdotes of "Welll I print ASA un-enclosed, and I'm perfectly fine, don't worry about the fearmongering."
We need more info about this kind of thing, and not many other 3D Printing TH-camrs are getting this deep into saftey, so please keep the videos and info coming and thank you for doing the work.
You are melting it, not burning but yeah
@riba2233 well I burned it a few times on accident lmao
@@alfarofilms lol
Also when people say "PLA is odorless" but then whenever I change nozzles (which requires heating the hotend to 250-280 C), or when I print PETG at 240 after previously printing PLA, I can usually smell 'burnt plastic' for a few minutes afterwards, probably from whatever tiny amounts of PLA were left in the hotend.
@Tennouseijin maybe it's just me, but I can smell all filaments I've tried so far. PLA is a very clear sweet smell combined with a subtle smell of melted plastic, and it always messes with my throat and eyes within about 15-30 min of exposure. PETG is far more subtle, only way I can describe it is similar to above without the sweet smell, more like a very faint rubbery smell, best I can describe it with the plastics related words I have heard lol and this one irritates my eyes more, but can feel subtle phlegm and mucus build up with enough exposure.. PC smells more chemical, again subtle but like a different kind of melting plastic smell, and those fumes got me lightheaded within minutes of exposure. The PLA I only print on my non enclosed sovol, the others I print in my X1C typically. Anything I print in my Ender 3v3 with grow tent enclosure and carbon filtered exhaust doesn't bother me too much. All of this is with home AC going, portable AC (Texas heat in an apartment on top floor, so both) going with vent hose to window, and a HEPA/Carbon air purifier in the room. Next step is adding a window mounted reversible fan, should make everything better.
This channel is the workplace health and safety videos for my hobbies
Next I’ll have to start doing quizzes that force you to rewatch the video if you don’t get at least 80% of the questions right.
It will be great for my view counts!
Fully appreciate the work he does.
Woke nonsense, I’ve been warming the house I bought for a nickel in 1966 with burning tyres and have never felt better
Real, i just use my asbestos pot to cook my meat
The lead fumes keep me young
I use only radium to power my lights
I eat mercury for breakfast.
My name is Norris. Chuck. Norris.
Thank Goodness I have been running 2 Large Room Hepa Filters in the studio for the past 2 years. I learned my lesson when running a 19 hour ABS print with NO ventilation in the room and filters off. Lightheaded is an understatement.
haha, you still might want to crack a window with ABS, since HEPA doesn't get rid of the VOCs
Hello styrene poisoning.
@@NathanBuildsRobots It would be interesting to test ABS/ASA printing for VOCs with the Nevermore Scorch filter material which claims to be able to break down styrene and other toxins.
@@evropapagan5551 I second this suggestion. If the nevermore actually reduces VOCs significantly I'll definitely install one.
@@evropapagan5551well even if it breaks down a good majority of styrene and such, some will inevitably bypass it, and the broken down particles will likely still not be great for you. So if you're wanting clean air, enclose and exhaust.
"These companies are making millions if not billions"
Reminder that certain 2D printers are also creating heavy emissions and it's usually ignored. Not sure how much research/warnings there are provided by HP for their Laser printers, but the PM2.5 and VOC of those are awful as well.
Most modern office buildings have pretty good ventilation, but I can see how it would be problematic in older buildings like the ones at some universities.
Ya since I started monitoring TVOCs in my house I noticed that anytime I used the laser printer levels would spike big time.
And I bet those compact home models are particularly bad?
Wonder how much our giant xerox was dumping in the office… that printer got a lot of use. I was in charge of ordering supplies for it and there was no filters to replace.
I remember going to my dad's office in the late 80s and being able to smell the copy machine toner when I walked in the door, besides the machines themselves I think a lot of it just came from copies offgassing in the banks of file cabinets.
Nathan, I know this information is really hard for some people to hear, but it's great you're actually tackling the content. I think we have all been happily ignorant in not wanting to find out how harmful it really is. But in the end of the day, we should all be careful and make these companies do better in protecting it's users.
My goal is to have a video for people to point at that has information and test data to back it up. No marketing crap or shilling a specific brand or trying to make it into a story.
Just the basics of what particles are, how they are dispersed and deposited in the air, and what happens to them while using a small printer running PLA.
Also people need to think about what’s in the filament. If you don’t know, you can’t be certain that it’s safe to breathe. What if they have Red lead based pigments? Nobody knows what’s exactly in them except the manufacturers, and they have a bias to not disclose if there were harmful additives.
I'm so glad I found this channel. So far I've only seen anecdotal comments about this on Reddit
they're some of the worst too, many aggressively act like experts on plastic saftey
@@alfarofilms anecdotal comment:: i recently got an ender 3 v3 SE and had it running in my bedroom, I usually open the window and run a double window fan but it was hot I ran a print with the windows close and I felt sick, it was black PLA.
I have one of those ikea PM2.5 sensors and it stayed in the green the whole time but I swear I felt sick and headachy .
that was the last print I did.
also Reddit is literal cancer.
@andreamitchell4758 yeah I think unless you spend quite a bit on a sensor, they're inconsistent af. I have a sensor too but it's gone into all red levels when nothing is even happening a couple times, so Idk if I can trust it. But I trust my body, and my body along with my brain tell me that melting plastics of any kind is not something to be breathing, no matter what anyone says. I mean people smoke cigarettes, I smoked them for over a decade, and I always knew they were bad but then eventually my chest would randomly hurt, so that's when I decided enough was enough. But we KNOW what's in those. I'm not waiting until my chest is hurting from plastic before deciding to do something about it lol
Just moved to one room student apartment and this inspires me to put my 3d printers into a grow tent and filter out dirty output air.
That’s a great idea. Remember that the tent walls will collect dust and it would probably be best to turn the vent on whenever you open (even when the printers are turned off) it to keep it relatively contained
@@NathanBuildsRobots this is really starting to sound like not such a safe hobby
Moral of this story, companies should have safety and health in mind, sell enclosed systems with proper filters.
How long have you been printing and breathing those particles Nathan?
I’ve always had a hepa filter, so I don’t think I’ve huffed too much.
But ventilation, filtration, and exposure is always something we should always be considerate of.
@@NathanBuildsRobots For me as a beginner this info is very valuable.
I have seen so many people on YT with small or even larger print farms where those machines are stacked in a room and producing.
So it is good that you share this info so that this really becomes known.
Personally i was rooting for a Flashforge because it has those filters and is an enclosed system but the buildvolume has witheld me from buying it.
I did get the chance to buy a second hand Sovol SV06 which is actually a very neat and friendly little machine and now i know what to expect and how strong a printed part can be.
But more importantly, i now know that despite being inexperienced that i am able to print parts without problems.
@@NathanBuildsRobots I believe that VOC's are bigger risk and you need a good carbon filter for that.
plus you forgot to mention that the printers themselves are probably off gassing dangerous fumes.
500F is above what is recommended for PFOA PTFE coated pans and I bet there is lots of hidden as well as disclosed PFOA PTFE material used the manufacturer of these printers we know about boden tubes and there is some I some of throat pieces and I am willing to bet it finds its way into bed coatings and other parted exposed to high temps as well.
OF course if someone own a pet bird then this should become immediately obvious.
A literal canary in the coal mine test is in order, JK that would be cruel.
Seriously I wonder if anyone has had a pet bird die from running a printer in an enclosed space or just in their house and made the connection yet.
I have run a printed in my BR with windows closed once I did feel very sick , my Ikea PM2.5 was in the green the whole time though so I suspect that "teflon flu" and/or VOC's were to blame for this.
maybe you can reach out to a 3D printing channel that is on a MCN and has big budget that will send different filaments for independent GCMS testing, but somehow i don't think their sponsors will approve of that very much.
I have a couple different air quality monitoring systems in my 3D printing room.
My sensors go craziest when I dispense one single spray of Isopropyl Alcohol compared to anything else. Thankfully I put ventilation in the room when I had it built, but I've been looking to upgrade it.
Keep spreading the good word though.
And by the way, when I asked my local HVAC company they laughed at me, and told me "I have been breathing fumes my whole life, nothing is wrong with me!" ...
I wish we just had grain alcohol as a general purpose solvent instead of isopropyl. But nooo, the ATF has to take away all the fun stuff!
That happened even before the ATF was founded.
IPA is hazardous??
@couryrussell7653 It's more toxic than ethanol, but less toxic than methanol which is what they use to make denatured alcohol undrinkable.
@@couryrussell7653 it's toxic yes, but more so if you drink it. Heavy fumes can hurt you, but you will feel the effects before you get hurt. Just don't lock yourself in a room with fumes.
lni.wa.gov/safety-health/preventing-injuries-illnesses/hazardalerts/IsopropylAlcoholInDisinfectants.pdf
Isopropyl Alcohol is one of the safer ones, but I do agree that grain ethanol would be better if governments allowed it.
Fortunately, I only mod my printers and don't actually print anything. Maybe I should switch over to something safer like consumer grade laser engravers.
I ran a laser indoors once and it smoked up my whole basement. That was really bad. Not to mention the risk of blinding yourself.
Yeah I don't think that's safer in terms of VOCs or anything else.
Another great video worth watching about safety!👏I came to the same conclusions.
Since many years, I run my studio printers inside cabinets with full air exhaust directly outdoors.
At least a good HEPA filter (ideally also with an activated charcoal layer for VOCs) makes a huge difference.
do u know what in all machine of Ultimaker, they have only HEPA filter without an activated charcoal , haizz money
"he who has not tasted grapes says sour"
I have been breathing in many plastic fumes for years and can tell you nothing smells better than PA12 when it is being injection molded, what a beautiful smell it is
How anyone can sleep with a 3D printer making a racket in their bedroom I don't get. But then there was that kid who nearly died of heatstroke mining crypto in his bedroom during hot weather.
Depending on what you're printing, is kinda a nice background noise.
Most of us just don't print overnight tbh
True. The motors might be quiet but those small high speed fans make it still sound like a large industrial machine running next to you while trying to sleep. At least on my Ender 3 V2 the fans have this howling sound to them making it a really irritating noise.
@@johnpekkala6941 If you upgrade your Ender 3 hot end with a better part cooling fan and a duct, you can run the fan very low. On mine I also added a buck converter to lower the voltage of the always-on fan by about half. Add to that silent drivers on a new main board, and you have a whisper quiet machine.
This is great! Please keep at it. There will be lots of angry folks hearing this and trolling you, but it's really important stuff. It's not going to help you get any sponsorships from Elegoo or Creality, but we have enough youtubers working for them already. People need to hear this stuff, and we probably need an even more dumbed down version of a video like this that sums up, or grades the level of risk posed by consumer 3d printing. (Not taking anything away from this video, it's brilliant)
The first month I got my 3D printer and basically printed in an enclosed room 24/7 while I was in it. I then somehow paralyzed one of my vocal cords. Doctors had no idea why, kept asking if I got into a car crash or something. ButI highly believe it was because I was so close to my printer for so long in open air. It's now all enclosed and vented outside now and my vocal cord thankfully healed!
I love that you made this video and I was wondering about this myself. But one thing that I didn’t see you talk about out is what effect enclosed printers have on air quality. Because I have a MK4 with the enclosure and their HEPA filter system. It’s currently in my room and I was wondering how safe that is. I would love it if you could make a follow up video to this one testing different methods of filtering the fumes with different methods to see what the best way is and seeing how effective current methods are.
I keep 2 filters going constantly in the rooms with printers then have good ventilation. Used to have all printers in an enclosed shelving system I made with filtration but got a few more since then so several arent in there. Whole house has air flow. Colder air from behind the house where its shaded is sucked in filtered and the exhaust is in the front of the house always got a slight breeze which Is nice in the summer. Have a couple nice standalone air filters throughout the house too and the main forced air has good hospital level filtration. Ive got bad lungs already so I try to keep my air fresh and clean.
I do the box fan filter setup as well.
VOCs need a carbon filter. Glad you’re talking about this. This is often a topic with printers in the workplace.
Wow i could have skiped all of the 20 videos i watched before and still got all my main questions covered in one. THANK YOU so much. Please more content Like this. And maybe an Update if needed.
A Corsi-Rosenthal filter system is great for sawdust but it is NOT going to filter the particles that 3D printing puts out. This is why a HEPA filter is recommended to be used. By the way, did you know that cooking a meal on your stove increases VOCs?
Yes, I have some pictures of the meter while I cooked an egg on a gas stove. The particulates had an extremely high spike during cooking, even with my overhead range vent on. However, it dissipated pretty quickly once cooking was done.
Weeeeell... I am glad I stumbled upon this video right before I got my first 3D printer... which I can only use in my bedroom...
I mean, I already constantly work with isopropyl alcohol and lighter fluid and a bunch of other chemicals, so getting a filter is probably a very good idea even without the 3D printer.
My line of work involves me wearing respirators and dealing with crystalline silica in various forms. These particles can do the same damage to your lungs as crystalline silica.
if that is true then that is pretty scary. are you referring to PLA of only the more exotic stuff?
It would be interesting if you could run some filament through it's printable 'ranges' of temperatures, and see how VOC and PPM change as a function of time, just how much worse is it to be running hot, etc.
I second this.
Thank you for your nuanced explanations. It's always tempting with these kinds of things to feel like you have to choose between total complacency and total catastrophizing. I wish this kind of thing were just regulated enough in the first place that we didn't have to resort to citizen science to figure out how much poison is too much poison, but I appreciate the work you've done to make the subject more understandable.
Thanks for covering this! I've read about this topic back when I first started 3D printing and ever since then I have always kept a HEPA air filter running next to my printer at all times. Overall it's a pretty cheap safety precaution in the grand scheme of things.
Thank you for making this video. It's really shocking how many people think PET is in any way "safe" when it is literally made of phthalates that get released on any chain scission degradation.
The one thing that really concerns and scares me the most, is this whole "recycling" and re-using craze. No-one seems to care about (or maybe understand?) just how detrimental plastic recycling already is from a consumer health and safety standpoint:
There are many obvious safety issues, most important of which is consumer storage and use conditions that causes Molecular Weight (MW) degradation and chemical/heavy-metal contamination of the polymer matrix; However, what I want to highlight is how the recycling process itself, both from the mechanical grinding/chopping up of plastics as well as the thermal re-melting, reduces the average molecular weight of the polymers that make it up.
This leads to significantly increased microplastic shedding from new consumer goods, right from the start of the product's life.
Most plastic products were only safe for long-term human and food contact, precisely because they would be landfilled long before their maximum designed life expectancy and chemical durability was reached or exceeded, thus stopping the breakdown (from sun exposure and mechanical wear) into and release of chemically active microplastics (i.e. with uncapped or unterminated chains, or even exposed additives from the fractured matrix).
It's getting more and more difficult, at an alarming rate, to find safe products that don't contain very low MW polymers and/or post-consumer chemicals (or even heavy metal contamination in the 10-100 ppm range) right from the manufacturer. For example, problematic products I've detected new contamination from are things like pillows, toothbrush bristles, bottled water, food-contact "safe" disposable plastic bags and packaging, clothing; with carpets, soft fibrous towels and blankets being the worst of all.
I just *really* hope that in 5-10 years we'll have even a single source of pure, virgin, high MW polymer filaments that don't continue to generate dangerous microplastic aerosols after being printed, just from light, indoor use.
What are some good resources to learn about this? From my reading PET and PETG are composed of polymerized tetrapthalate, but from my research most sources say that it is chemically different than pthalates and isn’t a safety concern
Give me a break. Don’t tell me you’re afraid of plastic water bottles…. Or maybe you don’t drink Water because it contains Hygrogen D: What a scary name!
Please go back to university and attend a couple Chem classes.
I just recently bought a medify ma-15 and I was shocked by just how much better and less congested I was after nights printing in my bedroom
Cheers for this. I'm moving into a new apartment in October with my boyfriend, and I'm beginning to think seriously about the long term printer setup. A HEPA filter and proper ventilation is now on my list of things I am going to be certain to sort out, since the printer will be in our office/gaming room. Plus when it comes to pets in the future, I want good health for them as well as us humans
I was really impressed by how effective a large HEPA filter is.
when I was doing my tests in my 4 Printhead printer, my meter was reading 0 for PM2.5 particulates and I thought it was broken. Turns out it’s just insanely good at filtering the air.
I specced out a super overkill solution for my office and I’m glad I did. At full power it recirculates the entire volume of my office air every minute.
@@NathanBuildsRobots Particulates are important, but I'm curious about VOC filtration. I'm sure nothing beats active ventilation but it would be great to know what the filtering of VOCs is for various filtering media, eg HEPA, HEPA + charcoal, etc.
This PSA topic is ripe for a whole series including VOC emissions by filament material (PLA, PETG, PC, ABS, etc) and also various types of the most commonly used material - PLA. I'm sure the additives in stuff like silk PLA are actually curative in nature, I mean, how could something so pretty be unhealthy?
I have my bambu x1c printer in my room luckily I have a coway hepa filter running 24/7 and have stuck to only printing pla, tpu and nylon. I'm looking into printing more engineering filaments for my combat robot so I'm glad the filter removes most particles. Nylon smells surprisingly nice, it's kinda sweet.
I do have a 3d printer in my bedroom, and an air quality sensor next to it (measuring PM1.0, PM2.5 and PM10). So far I haven't seen any concerning numbers while printing, although I've only printed PLA, PETG, and small amounts of TPU. I do keep my window partially open while printing, and I did build the Lack enclosure for it, so that's probably helping. Also, props to Prusa for doing research on the health hazards of 3d printing.
As you showed in the video, a good indicator of how much a manufacturer of filament gives a shit about health and safety is not only if they provide an SDS but how detailed/transparent that SDS is, especially the chemical composition section. UL, FDA and other safety certifications of filament are exceptionally rare unfortunately either due to cost, laziness, some "common/traditional" knowledge of certain materials being generally recognized as "safe" (Curse of knowledge) or other reasons.
For instance, I've always printed with PLA from either Hatchbox, Prusament, Protopasta or Microcenter's Inland in-house brand. All four are hit or miss on their SDSs and composition but you can pick up hints from experience, scientific/industry literature, trends or economies of scale of what's probably in them if not explicitly mentioned (e.g. If a black filament doesn't say what pigment its using, its highly likely it's using good ol' carbon black which isn't great because cancer risk but its cheap and well established in terms of production)
Unfortunately there's still confounding factors that don't always make SDSs a sure-fire mark of safety (informed purchase). Filament manufacturers may not control well what upstream raw pellet stock/additives/pigment supplier(s) they buy from (and then who knows what that supplier puts into the pellets), various government regulations may let some things slide from being explicitly mentioned in SDSs under the entry of "trade secret" or other miscellaneous factors. Fortunately, the scientific body of knowledge and thus regulation is growing.
One of the first things I did when I got a 3D printer was to get an enclosure that I could ventilate to the outside. I printed the parts for the fan, ductwork and vent in PLA and they keep the inside of the enclosure at a negative pressure. I now print ABS and never smell anything with the enclosure closed. If I go outside to the window vent it reeks. So I'd say it works just fine.
I’m glad I’m air conscious and my A1 mini is running in a room with 2 quality air filters. This was very interesting as I figured melting plastic fumes must be an issue
I have one printer in an enclosure. Due to lack of space in my kitchen. Window always open of course.
With the enclosure it is already a better option for me : )
I'm glad you are continuing to educate people about this topic. I certainly get a lot of dismissive attitudes when I advise enclosure, venting/air filtration or even fire safety devices. Many seem fine to let a cheap 3d printer run unattended and pumping out pollutants. I wish for everyone to Print Safe and do all you can to mitigate the hazards. Educating yourself on what those are is step one!!
Thanks for this video. You answered questions ive had for 3 years about air quality safety with 3d printers! Funny i just bought a bambu a1 mini this week : o ) and thank you for the hepa filter advice cuz this information needs to be out there just because its just basic safety. health is wealth ya know? And its completely viable and works great to make your own hepa filters with computer fans. we did that project last winter and it held up with testing/ comparing to expensive hepa filter machines , You just need to get the filters like you said and print a doodad to clip it to it! Happy, Safe prints world!
Just install non-silent board on your printer, and you will never want to place your printer in a bedroom, or at least you will sleep somewhere else. = )
🔥THIS🔥IS🔥FINE🔥
🔥NOTHING🔥TO🔥SEE🔥HERE🔥
I am very glad you made a video about this! I am printing in my living room for a few years now and never felt safe about the fumes and the dust coming from it. Since a year i have an semi enclosure with a fan and a hose to a nearby window with, i hope, enough under pressure to remove the particles.
Tip: use incense to smell if a ventilaton/ filtration solution does the job!
Tip2:
Ikea has some really cheap air filters from around 30 bucks (and even better; cheap replacement around 4 bucks) for not real HEPA though but HEPA I believe which is an advantage (still 95 percent filtration and more silent ) They also have larger ones with carbon. and particle meters. Stil based on the insence smell test, active ventilation is far more effective.
Good to know. I run my printer in an enclosure with a Bento Box filter (HEPA & activated carbon), hopefully that is enough. Been thinking about moving it to the garage, though.
Moving it woud be a Great Choice
What kind of enclosure do you use? I'm planning to buy a 3D printer soon and I would appreciate any ideas.
@@Metros23 It's a Cromgrow, which is basically the "grow tent" style enclosure. It's enough for some basic protection and to avoid drafts, but it's not air tight enough to allow it to become very hot, so more advanced materials can be a bit of a problem if you need high ambient air temperatures. The lack of being totally air tight is also why I'm considering moving it to the garage.
Thanks for bring this up. It needs to be talked way more than print speed at this point in my opinion.
The only company I know to deal with toxic emissions 3d printing is Alveo3d, they have many types of HEPA 13, 14, with activated carbon. Sorry for all the links sponsor you put in the description, they are all products don't have any certificate, or some like that.
Anyway, interesting topic to discuss.
By the way, if you haven't yet, getting a CO2 sensor was mind-blowing for me. Not really to do with 3d printers, but even in a fairly large apartment with occasionally opening the windows, the CO2 concentration easily reached 1.5ppm often. I now pretty much have a window or two open 24/7, even when it's relatively chilly outside.
Interesting! My house has terrible weather sealing, so I essentially have half a window open at all times.
I don't like its affect on my heating bill, but maybe its a blessing in disguise since I probably always get a good amount of fresh air.
@@NathanBuildsRobots my flat is somewhat drafty and also has 4m+ high ceilings, so I thought it would be fine and mostly bought the CO2 sensor for fun as I read a fair bit about them in 2020/21. Never expected it to tell me anything of use, but it drastically changed my behavior re ventilation.
I also had a relative work at home in a small 6m2 office with a door closed, and there the level was something like 2k ppm, insane.
Not all CO2 sensors are good though, I got a $50 sensorion reference design that's a simple USB stick with blue tooth and a light indicator. Naomi Wu compared it with a bunch of other sensors and this was performed the best in terms of matching a high-end device.
For VOCs and PM, I'm still looking for something that's both affordable and reliable.
My ventilation approach as an asthmatic with 2 printers in my home office (same office I work from home in) where I am only printing PLA, PETG and occasionally TPU - I have a transom fan in the window that I have in reverse, this is always on blowing air from inside outside. The printers are in a Lack tower about 6 ft from the window with the fan, I have a HEPA filter unit running below the lack tower. Also, the room next to the office is a bathroom with a whole house extractor fan that runs on a timer periodically. Still modelled my own CR style box with a PC tower form factor because I do not want potential dangers from my hobby to threaten my family. Garage is where I plan to run any printers for more known VOC emitters, even then I will have an extractor fan to the outside.
3D printer manufacturers really need to make them a lot safer, and easier to recycle or reuse filament to lower waste... Just wait till states like California make it illegal to 3D print or to ship filament to the state.
Just like a car exhaust pipe you see the soot around the pipe,
Same for printers nozzlez depending on fan speed you can see the fairy floss soot around the nozzle. Especially at high temp and speed.
Great video. I run a ceiling exhaust extractor fan to help vent the room faster.
Abs you absolite notice the VOCs and PLa smells quite sweet amd that means you need more venting.
Im very keen for ingredients list just like food packaging.
1000% we need this, I get so tired of the basic or lack of info on MSDS sheets from nearly ALL manufacturers. It's like they aren't even trying. Even Bambu, I mean just look at the MSDS for their Polycarbonate... Most people would read that and think "Oh it must be as safe as PLA and PETG then, cool" except PC fumes can be pretty hazardous, from what I've read up on it in research papers.
I just got a resin 3d printer. I spent X2 the money on an enclosure, air pump and ducting to filter the fumes outside. I have put the machine in the garage and wear an enclosed mask with voc filters that cost about $150, I have seen the health of people whom worked with resin in the boat building industry before pesky unions and health and safety. Those guys died hard. I took this up as a hobby but it's involved, I want a filament printer but I'm doing my due diligence before I jump in. I mainly want to make custom bits for my action figures and statues of character and spaceships. By the way, photo copiers and desk top printers are almost as bad as they use organic compounds in the inks and produce VOCs. I guess you just have to take a gamble with some of this stuff. Also, from what I understand a lot of this stuff is made in countries with less than stellar safety and environmental protections......so......
100%… Thanks For Doing this Nate. This often overlooked/neglected topic really does need to sink into the community mind. GET AIR FILTERS!.. Especially those People doing all night prints in their rooms.. (I have seen many at thrift stores that need little more than A filter change).🤙🏻
Nathan, very good series that I'd like you to continue. It would be nice if you can start reaching out to material engineers, health pros etc... As for the argument of "patented formulas" from manufacturers, I don't even think these are such million dollar secrets and that material engineers pretty much know how to use which additives to various specific ends. The secrecy would perhaps lie more in the manufacturing process and/or proportions of their mix. Even then, consumer protection is worth raising the issue it and perhaps motivate legislation for disclosure. Keep on !
Okay, you convinced me.
I'm strapping a MERV 13 filter to the box fan.
buy a box fan and a 20 inch filter. everyone should have one of those
I also noticed something to support your position, by measuring my HRV(heart rate variability) you can clearly tell when I'm in the same room as the printer when printing.
HRV is a pretty sensitive indicator of health, specially if you are in a resting position while measuring.
I tend to think the dusty highway I live next to pretty much renders my lightly-used printer moot with all the plastics, metals, and (probably worst) crystalline silica, but really that's more a reason to have HEPA filters running in the whole house all the time than to disregard the printer.
I really appreciate you taking the time to inform people of these concerns.
This encouraged me to buy a respectable air quality monitor (AirGradient) that I can integrate with my smart home and help automate my filtration & ventilation. My indoor air quality logs will be interesting general once I have close up the windows for the long Canadian winter.
Is that the one Amazon sells? I have two of those air monitors that Amazon sells for like $60 and work with an app.
Bro is saving our lives!!😢😢
😇
Resin in vat and alcohol cleaning left open absolutely effected me. Regulated to different location now.
Voc can’t be filtered effectively, you can use catalyst to neutralize. Dyson makes a filter with catalyst, which does remove odours. Or just put a ventilator in a studio. I do both
I was wondering about this, there has to be some kind of catalyst that would help break down VOCs, similar to a catalytic converter.
That's pretty badass that dyson makes one of these. It says it just does it for formaldahyde. I wonder if it works on other VOCs too.
Catalytic air cleaners need extremely high temps to work or need uv activated catalysts. It's best to just ventilate or use adsorbant materials like activated carbon or that purple stuff. You just need a large amount of it the mesh stuff is useless.
Would love to see a breakdown of different materials/printers/temperatures to see what factors affect the level of particulate/VOC generated.
Someone did it on yt already, abs was the only bad one
Oh no i operated my 3D printer while barefoot. How long do i have left to live?
Prusa being the gold standard as usual.
You should do this testing with different filaments at different temperatures. I feel like PLA at a low-ish temperature wouldnt be that bad without an enclosure
NATHAN BUILDS ROBOTS IS THE DEFINITIVE SOURCE FOR 3D PRINTING NEWS AND INFORMATION!
I'm here for a good time not a long time Bay Bee!!
I like the analogy of putting a spool of filament in the oven
some people actually do this to dry their spools😮
This is why I generally run my printers enclosed (Vorons) with activated carbon filters, and HEPA filters on the intake and exhaust.
I also run a large HEPA filter for the whole room, and I print in my office at home, but I have moved my resin printing out to the garage. I really couldn't handle those fumes in the office anymore.
Tbh most of us can't afford our own place much less have a place big enough for a separate room for a printer. I guess the best option is having an enclosed printer, even better if it has a filter.
I only print with PLA and there's 100% a smell every time and each brand or sometimes even color has a different smell. One time I was printing for a long time and only someone walking in from the outside mentioned the smell. Its not terrible but it's there and we don't know what's in those particles we smell...
I can't really fix my situation, nor can I afford a new printer now so I guess I'll breathe in some more fumes for now. I do always have my window open and a fan running to introduce air flow so there's that... But at the same time that spreads the particles everywhere... What can you do.
I have a giant CR box in my bedroom where I wisely put my 3d printer... - Would be curious to see how much activated charcoal helps with VOCs, too.
From what I saw, not at all. My filter has activated charcoal beads in the filters and there was basically no difference to VOCs with it on or off.
They might be saturated already, or maybe it requires higher concentrations for it to work, but I’ve always assumed it’s a marketing scam to include those
@@NathanBuildsRobots Is it built in to your printer?
@@NathanBuildsRobots that's not too surprising. I was thinking more along the lines of a square of 4 PC fans with alright static pressure forcing air through an inch or so of loosely packed activated charcoal. I'm also sceptical of the dustbin sized HEPA filters, my CR box is four 24x20x4 in MERV 13 filters. I don't have a particle measurement device, but that's hopefully somewhat effective.
For activated charcoal, I only did a brief bit of googling but it didn't seem very easy to find accessible information on what types there are, how often they need to be refreshed, etc.
@@NathanBuildsRobots would be interesting to see a video on this tested out, because I've heard the same thing, that some VOCs are too small for non industrial grade filters?
I have no other option but place the printer in my bedroom, wish I could put it elsewhere, but for the time being, I open a window and have a box-fan on the it that pulls fresh air from outside while the printer is running.
The future is safer filaments for 3d printing at home.
Nobody should 3D print in their unventillated bedroom
You can print PHA safely without any of these concerns
I'd love that, but the reason PLA no longer sucks as it used to is because more additives for toughness became common on it, not less. It'll be hard for people to go back to using the kind of crap that snaps in the roll 5 times per print.
I remember when I dismantled my acrylic enclosure that had forced air cooling for the mobo and PS, I found out there was an airleak on the backside of the enclosure that sprayed enclosure air onto the wall behind it and thus left a huge (4'x6') very dark soot spot onto the white paint after 2 years of printing, I vent my printer out the window now
Glad i keep my printers in my garage with a big HEPA filter.
I usually run a box fan with the garage door open for a bit too before i work in there for extended periods too.
For info: some particle sensors don't really detect PM10, they just output a number based on PM5. If the two have a mostly constant ratio, there you are. It seems your does too.
Your video is fantastic! So good. You holidayed the way I would in Seatle 😊
Appreciate your work chief; the 3D printing community has a bad habit of treating important things like assumed knowledge so we don't explain the OHS stuff like you've been covering. Even I had assumed that comosite parts need a coating like you suggest to prevent embedding
Another big one that makes me wary is how infrequently you see the important of using a deburring tool for remoiving supports, not a knife bc no matter how many years we've been using it, it's not the tool for the job and is probably the biggest risks (in terms of balancing the relative incidence rate and how severe it is if an accident happens) to safety
i have a single room studio with a bambu P1S farm with 17 machines on 2 racks I have setup a 4in trunk line on each of the 6 shelves that has a 2in line to a 3d printed adapter to the chamber fan on each machine. one end of each of the 4in lines ties into single 8in trunk duct this has medical grade H14 hepa filter and a active carbon before venting to a custom diverter box that has an ESP32 and temp sensors to controls if the air is vented outside or back inside this also reads the printer data and will only vent outside when a toxic flag is set.
doing all this fixed my sleep and asthma problems that returned when i built the farm.
i also have air quality sensors tide to the filter system
How about a printer that is in its own enclosure that isn't venting out? Like in a cabinet?
Is there a time frame for the particles to settle?
In my test without filtration, the particle count settled from 11,000 to 1,500 (which is only a little above baseline) in about 3 hrs. They fall out of the air and collect on the walls. I like having a filter because it traps them in the filter which you can later throw away.
Thank you for spotting the light on this 👍🏻 amazing video
Great video! Thanks for covering this! I recently bought a Bambu lab P1S over the A1, because the p1s is an enclosed printer with an activated carbon filter in front of the exhaust fan. When the door is closed I can barely smell the pla. But when I open the door it’s so strong. I do not regret getting the p1s even if it’s much more costly. Also plan on adding a custom filter behind the exhaust to snag more of the particles
Again, thanks for making this video. Awareness on this topic is very important. I believe my p100 respirator is similar in effectiveness to a hepa filter. Some of the cartridges for p100s actually are just small hepa filters inside. I like your idea of a cheap box fan with home depot filters to run in your work space.
I LOVE MICRO PLASTIC
One of the first things I 3D printed was a self contained carbon & hepa filter for my bambu labs X1. What’s worse though are laser cutters/engravers and the resin 3D printers. Those emit really toxic fumes where you need a gas mask for regular use. Definitely not bedroom friendly.
Thank you for bring this to more people's attention, very good video!
Glad to see people talking about it. I have a lot of random chemical sensitivities, so I'm like a canary in a coal mine, even PLA printing I can't be around for long before it starts to make me feel woozy. I know everyone else doesn't have those same issues, but I can't help but think if it makes me sick, there's a chance it's not completely safe for normal people too.
I don't wear anything but cotton. I used to get random rashes on my neck and back all my life. Eventually I narrowed it down to a specific sweater, and a few shirts that weren't polyester.
Just last year I got rid of everything that wasn't pure cotton or wool and I've had no issues. Sometimes it takes a long time for people to even realize they are allergic or sensitive to something.
My lungs start feeling different if I'm printing in my basement room with no ventilation even with PLA as well.
It may not just be chemical allergy but poor moisture wicking properties.
If you live in a city I'm sure being outside is worse, so it's not really something that matters :P
I disagree. If you are a 3D printer user, there is a high likelihood that you rarely go outside, so improving indoor air quality is still important.
@@NathanBuildsRobots 🤣
I'm almost positive some one has said this about asbestos decades ago 🤣
@@alfarofilms big cities are full of asbestos, brake pads are made of it and cars are in constant traffic using their brakes
the streets literally lined with the stuff
and if you live in NY you are getting an extra special bonus, when the WTC was demolished millions of tons of it were released and I bet a good amount still lingers on hat island to this very day, but don't worry, air is safu to breathe.
I think the problem is that PLA and PETG hardly smell when melted. You don't get that "melting plastic" smell so it's easy to ignore wha't going on.
Opening the window is not an option here in Quebec where outside temperatures are too low for printing.
A small vent would work just as well, that just exhausts the dirty air out, especially if you already have an enclosure. Filters work great for getting rid of particles though, so if that's you main concern a good HEPA filter works wonders
Always have this concern on mind but always blow away by the community that clamming safe material used for printing wont do a thing to your health.
Yeah, some people are resistant to taking basic safety precautions based on bad assumptions.
Best case, they're right, and everythings fine. Worst case...
Thanks for the warning, but I don't worry, i have a canary next to my printer.
Hello.
The study is interesting, it would have been worth supplementing with what other authors have determined over time on thermoplastics.
In relation to the resin, the quality of the printing far beats that of thermoplastics, and on the side of the emissions produced in closed spaces, I have carried out studies and measurements. Even the measurements were comparative between commercial devices and systems developed by me with semi-professional or professional sensors.
I'll try to help with what I know in a short time and maybe even though I haven't worked on my personal channel until now, maybe I'll try to reactivate it. The resin is not as harmful as the thermoplastic material or those with melted particles located or in the mass.
With good.
and there's me with an old anet a8, chewing on the purge line, printing abs in a box next to me while i get stoned 😂😂
Thankfully i installed a fentelation fan in my closet which is closed and also behind its own casing in thst closet. No more headaches.
polymaker does say what is in their polymax pla, it is 70-30 pla and pmma blend.
One thing really pisses me off is how everyone on the internet says something different. As someone who doesn't have any knowhow on these things and shouldn't open his mouth, i need to know some facts and reality checks. There are many people on the internet that pretent to be some sort of expert in that field and saying things that are like "it's safe" or the opposite where they say they won't even print at home at all.
And then there is a huge amount of TH-camrs who just know the safety risks and tell it to the viewers but then don't follow themselfes which makes a lot of people think it's like any other safety recommendation that doesn't mean a lot for many people. And then you have a alot of people that just blindly buy a printer by just watching 1 or 2 videos about someones crafts with it, so not doing any further research of what is it all about. And some of these videos showing things like touching uncured resin prints with bare hands and thus people buying those printers because watching that video doing the same thing.
And when the time comes that someone in result get cancer or what ever, it's too far long time ago maybe to even build that connection or just doesn't matter any way because it's too late. By all the other dirt we have all around in big citys, there is a cancer chance any way which won't let you think you got it because you handeled 3d printers years the wrong way.
And the worst part of all of this, even people who have nothing to do with these poor decisions get affected by this. Like when people put down uncured resin down the drain or animals that enter these printing rooms or little babys, kids who breath and eat that stuff because they parents print in a kitchen or with none food safe materials.
Good point on the hypocrisy.
I will make an effort to mention filtration and ventilation requirements in all my videos from now on.
@@NathanBuildsRobots Thanks. At least i could make something with this comment ;) Can't wait for your resin related video.
I know of a young fella whose job was 3d prinring parts as well as doing it as a hobby. He got cancer in his young twenties. I think it was from the fumes.
I connect my exhaust to a closed container that I keep kittens in and they filter the air for me.
Ahh yes, the Schrödinger's cat filter