Is DAWless worth it? The Pros and Cons of hardware focused music production
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 13 มิ.ย. 2024
- Been thinking about this video for a bit now. It's a discussion on the benefits and disadvantages of a #DAWless setup. A perspective video. It may or may NOT help you! lol
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0:00 Intro
0:57 Why DAWless?
3:01 The Benefits of DAWless
9:20 The Negatives of DAWless
17:37 Our Recording Process
19:36 Sequencers
21:13 Thoughts on Eurorack
22:53 Final Thoughts
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"Unlimited Resources Are The Enemy Of Creativity" - Orson Welles.
I’m learning this now fl vs mpc I always get lost and brain fog with daws
If you’re enjoying yourself than it’s always worth it.
#Wisdom
Great video, love to see other people's perspective and reasons for committing to the no-computer nonsense.
Same! I used Reason for 10 years and finally having a proper dawless studio has made the creative process a lot more fluid and also fun, I found this sense of freedom that physical knobs and faders give you when you can shape the sounds while they play, however I will never forget how Reason taught me everything that I can now apply on this dawless setting
So true with a DAW, wayyyyy too many options. I started off with a DAW and just couldn't get anything done! I just became paralized by the plethora of options available to me in the DAW and the endless searching for just the right bass or pad or kick etc. When presented with so many options it takes time to decide what to use. With dawless setup you have fewer choices so you get things done a lot quicker.
That's why I use Reason 4, as the new one is full of new devices and plugins can be used and you can buy extra devices and on and on. All the music I hear most of the time comming from Reason 12 or plus users dont sound any different to what I can do in vertion 4 any anything it cant do can be done with using free or cheap software to do what it cant. Abalten live lite come free with My keyboard so if I want to use VSTs I'd use that. I dont like having to many opinions and I dont want to sound like everyone else.
That's called operator error.
I just use cool sounds i dont think when i make music its just the feeling of it
You should get Reaper. No sarcasm.
It is pretty much an empty thing that you fill how you want to fill (it does have effects though).
It is the same as when you take an ol-school mpc and start filling it with samples :)
@@nskeip ok thanks so much will look into it
i think one big advantage that gets missed a lot about dawless vs daw, is the compatibility. daws/computers tend to update, and you're forced to update other things to keep them compatible. i can turn on an mpc 2000xl today, and play the same songs i made on it from 15yrs ago. if i do that with a daw, itll be slowing down, some things won't be compatible.... crashing etc. I like just turning something on and go. with daws, there's times settings gotta be changed (midi/audio), or something isn't working etc etc.... and we stay googling trying to fix it for minutes to hours to days. and it kills the whole mood. 😐 With dawless, you really don't have to worry about that
Agreed! I wish I had included a discussion on software being unsupported versus vintage hardware. I’ve had a lot of software in the past become unusable.
Absolutely. I am not "anti-DAW" but cannot think of a single advantage of it (other than physical space Let's use a concrete example.
Say I want to play....an underground, funky Techno/Future Ska fusion beat (South Grenada style, of course)...
If I am limited to importing midi packs in to my DAW...how do I do this? Search online and hope there is a midi pack for this? Let's assume that there is one avaiable...is is really what I had in mind and/or want?
Make sense? In other words, the beauty of completely eliminating the dependency for ANYTHING other than the ability to construct and deliver whatever is in your mind...gives hardware users carte blanche.
I have dropped close to 10,000 beats in the last 12 months (TEN THOUSAND), comprised of one or more of 25+ unique synths , (I have remade a few of my own stuff but 99% if it is "oringinal" not some mix but hands on CREATION. As in it didn't exist, now it does....yet the person who has all the "followings" has dropped 7 beats, all from the same midi pack...just moved around, transposed, etc.
So now DAW users are limited in their creativity
The result ?
There is very little, if any progression when it comes to music anymore. This is because You have an extremely small percentage who are focused on creating something the general public will like (and thus purchase) and you have a mass of people taking that and "massaging" a 7 minute beat sideways to Sunday.
VERY few it seems, unfortunately, are like myself (and I assume you gents) who are truly focused on caryrying whatever genre we are playing at that time.
Baack in the day I was in that BBC documentary "RAVE" or somesuch (they showed locations across Europe and the US (I was in Austin, TX at the time) but the only speaking part was "What's Trance? It's whatever I play...that's Trance"
It was small-minded 22 year odl way of saying that there are not rules to art, instsd you create then lable it...not vice versa
It's all about how a computer is set up, though. I have a 2008 MacBook running OS 10.6 and Reason 5, and it's never been updated - it's not on my home network. It's not any slower now than it was in 2008. We intentionally cause compatibility issues because we want our computers to run the latest OS, web browser, all that other crap. But we don't HAVE to. You really can freeze your computer in time.
14:52 Honesty there are 2 kinds of Dawless jammers. The ones that fall prey to GAS and the ones that want to setup a Dawless band type structure. Just build everything into a Flightcase and let that be the limit. Assign tasks to equipment and be critical if you really really need all those synths. Then learn your setup like an instrument and take it from there. Great video!
There are also Dawless jammers who simply dislike computers. Many people hate computers, usually because they're not comfortable working with them because they never learned the basics. Personally I like both physical hardware and computers.
I dislike computers because I work with them and want to get as far away as possible from them when I get off work. I would guess there are a lot of people like me.
I work with a hardware only setup since 2014, I am really happy with this, especially that we now have lots of affordable synths, it lacks in the sequencer department but I have Engine so I am saved :) powerful and fast sequencer! It is for sounds and workflow, and personal preferences, I had tons of analog gear in the 90ies and it is a bit nostalgic... I used to work 100% in ableton live with plugins but I got bored and I just love physical synths especially analog...
Great analysis, loved it. I work with computers all day long, so I got into Dawless to get away from them and to have fun making music instead of configuring software. One minor correction: you can have odd measures on the Elektrons, and you can actually have different measures per track.
Great video and great channel. I've been soaking up allot of your content. I'm hoping this channel blows up. You two have definitely earned it!
Thank you so much...Hey all. Ive been a singer/guitarist/bassist/noodler keyboard/ for quite some time now. 65 years young to be more exact...And after spending decades on stage in the "secular and Christian" live playing situation, its right back to ONE thing. Are you making music? yes or no? Have fun, bust your ass in the process, knowing that...nothing worthwhile is easy. Life has never been... is not now,... or ever will be fair. Just make music w/everything you have available to you right now. I own the MC-707 and have owned the MPCs' loved them all...but time is short. make the most of what you have right this minute. Your unadulterated video has been raw and honest. Excellent job. Give honor and glory and praise to Jesus Christ ....why??? Because He has given the talent to everyone! Rock on y'all...rock on.
I sold some gear and switched some out to go mostly dawless. More because I wanted to create a musical space where I could get a break from the laptop and just focus on music. bass guitar, Yamaha Reface CP, Modal Skulpt and a loop pedal all bought second hand has been a great and not too expensive setup for just creating.
Gateways
It’s all about a hybrid setup for my workflow. Best of both worlds is the way to go for my purposes
Agreed! I can’t see myself breaking away from a Hybrid setup at this point.
The new MPC's software is a DAW so they are not DAWLESS.
This was SO helpful. Your way of speaking and explaining things is extremely easy to follow. Editing is amazing as well. New sub! Now off to go down the rabbit hole into a new channel ;)
Great video, thanks a lot for taking all that time to share your views on the topic and how you guys approach your music making.
You've been a real inspiration since i discovered your channel last year and pandemic helping i've dived back into music and built a small hybrid setup with the same aim as you have.
Start out the box, jam and have fun, then bring it all in the end to the daw for polishing.
That’s amazing to hear LFF! Thanks for sharing your thoughts 🙏
I just started collecting pieces for my Dawless setup a couple of years ago. I've been slowly finding pieces that I really think identify with the sound that I identify with. I think that is a prime factor in deciding on which pieces you want to own as to make sure you're not wasting money just buying the next coolest thing.
This video is the most useful video I found for music production in a while. Thanks and happy for subscribing
Great video! I started recently with a MIDI controller and Ableton, but felt like I couldn't do much. It changed when I got a Pocket Operator and later on a Korg NTS-1. Now I have an electric kalimba and several other gear.
Hardware is great for jamming and DAW is great for sequencing a complicated pattern and finishing/mastering.
Great video! I think you're exactly on point based on my own experiences using mostly hardware to compose and arrange, but recording into a DAW. Getting away from analysis paralysis was exactly the reason I bought my Digitakt, too :D
Love your channel, the music you create together is refreshing, original, medicinal and pure. Praying for the day when I can have a own studio again, this time being in Tucson, Az. Support by way of prayers and positive energies sent my way by any angels out there would be awesome. I need a massive breakthrough in my current circumstance(s), as an artist I need space and resources.
I love Sweden, yet I've been in a black hole here socially and as an artist...... Thank you so much for the inspiration and knowledge. I enjoy listening to you talk music and music tech. Cheers from Stockholm. Stellar blessings to you both. Keep the tunes coming the world needs them.
I really appreciate your intellect and insight on this topic. Your clearly very experience and talented and I've enjoyed and been inspired by your music. For my dawless setup I use the MPC ONE as the brain, an akai Mini keyboard, a Boss RC 505 looper as my mixer/audio interface and a GR55 synth for guitar modeling, amp modeling, and 100s of synth/ string & pad sounds used with my Godin LGXT guitar. I've been very happy with this setup.
That’s an awesome setup! We’ve always wanted to grab a 505 looper, just never pulled the trigger. Thanks for watching 🙏
The MPC one software is identical to MPC beats and there for it's a Daw and is not Dawless.
Absolutely. 'Unlimited options' is the killer of creativity, and ppl spend years working in DAWs before they realise that.
Thank You for an interesting and informative video. As an old analog hardware guy who grew up with analog studio gear and synths in my fathers studios long before computers became mainstream music production systems, before MIDI was even invented, I found it interesting to hear Your views. I build modular and semi-modular synth gear and enjoy using it for live performance, still don't use a DAW but recently got into making hybrid modules using MCU chips to digitally control analog circuits and modules. I have been developing a prototype hybrid modular sequencer with multiple embedded processors and internal storage that provides synced multi track sequencing of CV, GATE, TRIG outputs to drive analog synths and modules as well as sampled sounds and stored wave tables. This has greatly enhanced the DAW-less system removing many of the limitations of existing hardware sequencers. It currently handles flexible sequence lengths up to 1024 notes per sequence block with up to 16,384 blocks across 10 channels. I have found that I still mostly only use either 32 or 64 note patterns on 6 or 8 channels but the capacity is there to expand into when needed. I sold off all the MIDI gear I had but have built a control bus system based on the MIDI structure into the modular rig to allow the hybrid modules to communicate control data between them so it is technically possible to hook up a DAW at some point in the future. The reasons I have not gone down the DAW rabbit hole yet are that for many people it seem to have swamped them with options and killed their creativity while making everything take way more time messing with menus and clicking on software. Then there are the reliability issues, I find it quite shocking the number of live performances, events and live streams that come to an impromptu halt with the audience being given apologies because 'the computer crashed' or 'the DAW locked up'. Of course in a studio setup this is less of a problem as You can usually restart things and carry on from where You left off without leaving an audience hanging in silence, or worse, being blasted with a horrific noise until the sound is muted or the offending PC is reset. Good to hear things from Your perspective, keep up the good work and whatever You use, Keep On Modulatin' all the best from BOOS__ModulaR, in Scotland.
Great video! Very useful advice and overview.
Thanks for the awesome Video! It is very informative. I like that you are reffering to different instruments one can use in his or her setup.
I've gone with the 'grillin' beef' option, 80/20. 80% I make on Dawless, jamming out, trying things, and overall just flowing creatively. More than anything, it's just fun. Really, why do we do this kind of stuff unless it's actually enjoyable. Toys are fun to play with and Dawless is like a giant toy store.
20% finishing it up in Ableton/Reason, whatever. Nothing can clean up, finish ideas, and really polish a track like a good computer program.
Love the channel!
I’ve binge watched your videos. Love the content
Great video 👍. I built mine over decades. I like the physicality for music creation and all the things you spoke about. For me the biggest benefits are no email, no social media, no TH-cam! 😀 Also I came to rely on the ease of editing in the DAW so my playing got sloppy and my chops atrophied. So I reverted to my 4-track tape approach and I fix problems by punching-in. Not only is that more efficient than comping but it forces me to play it until I get it right and that builds chops! 😎
These are all fantastic points! I actually really wished I had put the lack of internet as a benefit 🤣 Thanks for the insights 🙏
which dongle are you using to get the audio OUR from iPAD to mixer?
...any demos of your results?
Thanks man. Super helpful and grounded.
Tefty.....Bro.... You hit the nail on the head for pretty much every point. I’ve owned and still own several DAWs and because there is so much involved with setting them up and so many options I’ve never mastered even one of them and by the time I got all set up and ready to go the creative juices dried up. Now with my set up now I turn it on and start jamming right away. Yes I’m glad I have the DAW to record in to when I need to but I’ve had so much fun jamming I’m finding it hard to do that. Another good post , thanks for sharing.
Hi Raymond 👋 I’ve been in the same boat soooo many times. I originally thought the limitations of hardware would turn me off. Time is precious. Being able to jump in right away can make or break a writing session. Cheers 🍻
It's definitely worth it! it's so nice to have a tactile work session that you can learn and progress on over time, it's instant gratification and truly unique, compared to software that feel's robotic, less fun and definitely prohibits your creativity. IMO the Polyend Tracker, Akai (force, MPC), Roland 707, Vurse Lab, Machine+, etc, are absolute game changer's, this hardware revolution has got me back into enjoying the process again rather than feeling like I'm at work with a keyboard and mouse.
I will always be partial to a DAW, but I very much enjoyed this discussion from the other side. Great video. I love chopping it up about all things music & gear, and this video weirdly scratched an itch for that during these strange times of isolation.
Thanks. You laid it down like a mate would. DAW it is for now but I'm left with the problem of choosing the best option for a controller that will give me the most hands on control for my DAW, for the least amount of money. Has to have keys as I don't have any. Anyway, thanks for the video, after a few videos, yours is the one that has settled it for me.
Dude! Great volume of information here to include both sides of the conversation. I want to get Efff off of my computer so I bought a Novation Circuit and might acquire a few Volcas to dabble in a DAWless setup. I need something to just get me off my computer so getting my toes wet with some DAWless gear makes sense.
You nailed some really good points in this video
I really liked the way you explained this 👍🏼 respect
Thanks for this helpful content man..
Really great thought on dawless. Also enjoyed hearing about how you record and jam.
Thanks for watching 🙏
Have a look at the Deluge I really enjoy using it.
Great video. Very informative. I'm using the Digitakt and Digitone with a Roland Jupiter XM and some loopers and agree with the points you have shared. The jamming first and finishing in Logic X after is a much more organic work flow. Peace.
Excellent video, man. Always love your chill, to-the-point vibe. You guys know your shit, no doubt. I got into dawless stuff during the pandemic, because of your channel, and Jade Wii, mostly. I've been DAW-centered for a long time because it's certainly the fastest method for me, as a mostly-solo person (and computer geek). But there's a lot to be said about dawless jamming.
My sub-$3,000 dawless / hardware setup: Novation SL MK3 49-key (as the hub for sequences), MPC One (for computer-less wrtiting and/or finger-drumming/loop triggering stuff, along with the SL MK3), Circuit (mostly for the synth sounds, and/or sync'd up to the SL MK3... Microfreak (because Microfreak, haha), Model:Samples (for whatever, sync'd to the SL MK3), and then the Behringer TD-3 and RD-6, just because they're cheap and fun. Oh, and a Sonicware LIVEN 8-bit Warps (so much fun and fairly easy to use). Everything's connected to an ADAT (each device is mono, not stereo, except the MPC One) connected to my main Focusrite interface, so I have 16 total channels (no mixer... I just go directly into Reaper and mix there... a small midi controller can mute/solo as needed, and also kick in plugin reverb/delays via buses). It's fairly hassle-free and fun. Everything's on a 3-tier keyboard stand with shelving to fit everything. Not a big burden, space-wise.
Most of the time, just writing/recording track-by-track using Reaper gets me the closest to finishing songs, though. The jams are usually just that-- jams. Some I record, most I don't. I often wonder about the ratio of people recording their jams vs. simply "jamming" and then powering their down, haha. Probably more than a lot of us think.
Thanks again for the great video, brother! Keep up the awesome work, as always.
Just a mention... I bought a cheap drum machine with midi out/thru and used that as my main "start/stop" rather than a sequencer. I have it chained through to what is now a fair amount of gear however it was a great side step on the sequencer to save money and get into it quicker The mixer i use for muting and solos. . Thought it might help someone. Love the videos, really helpful thank you!
Just found your channel. You are an incredible presenter! Thanks!
Thank you!
Great video. I'm pretty much DAWless and enjoy messing with hardware - but I'm primarily a guitarist so having something to put my hands on makes more sense to me personally. I like the "limitations" hardware gives me. And I think you really made an excellent point about screwing around with a zillion virtual instruments and settings vs. focusing on the creative side of composing/performing.
I'm fallowing you on Bandcamp now. Keep on doing what you do. You are very inspiring.
Thank you Blu Duvel! ❤️❤️❤️
Definitely enjoy your video's...great tunes. I learned some things. I actually use (now, in 2021) mostly a DAW, with hardware (guitars / keyboards), but I also have an entire set up based around a Tascam DP24 24 track multitrack, a Boss ME80 guitar multi effects unit, a Roland DR880 drum machine, and an old Yamaha $200 keyboard. I use the Tascam setup mostly for fun and jamming; getting a fresh approach to ideas. Yeah, it definitely takes up space. I need a house...with a garage.
I’ve settled on a hybrid approach. MPC and synths, drum machines for sequencing, delay/reverb and sound sources. DAW for mixing and other fx.
I use a console 1 and fader with the daw so that gives me a hardware feel during mix down as well.
Great video. 👍
I use a Roland MC-101 to sequence a Korg Minilogue XD, Roland JU-06A and a Model D. Drums, samples and 3 VA synths from MC-101 too gives me 1 drum machine and sample player and 6 sequenced synths. Lots of options with nice FX, EQ, clip chaining etc. Great vid Bro ✌
I have almost the same gear, would love some more tips and advices!
Totally enjoyed the topic topic discussion and comments in regards to your video. For me less processes in the DAW and more on the hardware definitely helps with cpu functions and latency issues. Workflow also seems to be more efficient in the sense I have a song sooner than later. Less chance of not seeing the sun for 4 weeks and growing a beard lol. Cheers man ✌🇨🇦👍
I’m puzzled about how the hardware real-time capable sequencer has fallen out of favor. For a hardware setup, this is an extraordinary piece of gear. You hear plenty about step sequencers but I’ve never taken to that way of working. If I use a sequencer, I use a multitrack real-time capable sequencer like a Roland MV30 or MC80 or an Akai MPC4000. I’ve always liked this way of working if I’m not doing direct to CD recording which I also love to do. My favorite setup is my Tascam M2600 32 channel console with high end digital effects plugged into the aux sends. This gives me the ability to turn on effects via the sends and returns on any channel. Using the sequencer is like doing multitrack recording without tape but maintaining a flexibility that you would not have with tape or digital recording. You can change everything if you want. Synth voice, effects and levels.
I’m kind of old school in this way. I still love working with hardware over constantly staring at a screen. I also love to record live improvisation direct to CD recorder. I’ve created several stations in my house that have different combinations of instruments all plugged into a mixer and sent to a CD recorder. I have a lot of synths and sometimes I really appreciate just selecting a few for a session and getting closer to making sound changes with each. Sometimes just one. Solo synth improvisation with however much is connected is a beautiful thing that is often neglected by the desire to multitrack.
Akai fire, all of the current mpcs, squarp pyramid and hapax all can do real time midi recording with the option of turning quantization off. At least on the akai stuff you can make a clip or track as long as you want.
Awesome insite thoughts thanks for the honesty
Thanks for watching! 🙏
What a great video, thank you!
Ps: how are you capturing your voice? Sounds really clear but I don't see a mic close by 🤔
Just outside the frame right above my head 😉
I've used VCV Rack for the last several years (not quite a DAW but I use the VST Host a lot), recently got an X-Touch Mini, I now have so much more fun jamming because I have immediate access to buttons and knobs.
Very helpful. Thanks. I have started recording all of my eurorack jams now because the magical moments come and go and are almost impossible to reproduce. I send a clock from Ableton to the modular sequencer and then multitrack record every sound that the modular makes. I still miss stuff :D
Nice one bro. Thanks. Just outbid Interest, do you use the OP1 much in your recent set up with the mpc one? I’m low on funds and considering swapping out my op for the One. Or should I hold it and save for the One u think? Cheers bud.
Good video. I went computerless very early on after repeated issues with Cubase. After some time with a Roland MC303 Groovebox, I used a Yamaha QY700, Roland JV2080, Akai 3000XL and Korg Trinity TR Rack. I wrote my best songs on that set up. yes, it cost me quite a lot, but if I still had it I am sure it would work exactly the same as it did on day one (plus no software updates, it just worked!) I have tried computer DAWs a lot since, Ableton, FL, Reason, Traktor, Reaper, but have never got into any of them. While I still have a couple of these options, my choice is an MPC One and a Roland MC101, it’s all I really need and haven’t touched my computer DAW since.
Re price, an MPC One is c.£600. Ableton Suite is £500 + Laptop. Laptops get clogged up with photos, software, internet, and constant updates that eventually require you to buy another more powerful beast. An MPC will just work and any updates work within the restrictions of the hardware. Even an IMac and Logic will set you back £1500.
There is no clear winner. My advice is get one or the other and learn it. Don’t get caught in the gear acquisition syndrome (gas) to keep adding hardware or VSTs without knowing the previous gear inside out. A friend used to write the most incredible drum and bass tunes and all he had was Cubase 3.1 and an Akai 3000XL! He knew the gear!
So glad am not the only one with paralysis from analysis hehe
Cool video. I just recently fell down the hardware rabbit hole, and specifically started building a euro-rack setup. I don't want to think about how much money I've spent, especially considering all the free/cheap synths available! lol
That said, as a guitarist/bassist I like the physicality of it, as you mentioned, and agree about the pro/con of being limited.
This is a great video! Only thing I would push back against... cables. We spend so much money on cables...
Nice video! Ok, I'm using a DAW. But I have had a Boss BR 80 for some time now. But the thing has been broken for some time. So I bought another, used one, and started again with great enthusiasm. This thing in particular doesn't require all those added devices that I see in this video because it has a lot built in. An advantage to start with. Although, I also have an old KorgPad control. And with my piano I can also do a lot with PlugIns. But it's not necessary. Quite simply with my guitar, there is already a lot to do on a Boss BR 80. It forces me to be more of a musician and less of a "producer". And that also has its advantages.
Yo Tefty I used to watch you play Destiny all the time, but I never knew you were into music production! That’s dope.
Same, I saw the destiny logo on his beenie and I was like wow small world.
Great points, especially on needing space. Im currently redoing my space and that always seems to be the issue.
The number of times I’ve rebuilt our studio 🤣🤣
Great vid and explanation. I have a DAWLESS setup and record everything into a zoom h6 recorder..is there any hardware equipment i can buy for mastering?
Hi Tefty & Meems. Nice talking about music production. May be its time to make video about third way. I mean using Ipad Pro with AUM or Audiobus and many AUs plugins (Moog model D, TAL U-NO-LX, Sunriser, Ravenscroft 275, Hammond etc.). All can be controled via midi surface and MPC for midi track recording. All ortodox synth users can despise this solution but for portable jaming and price solution is the next way. What do you thing about this?
“Paralyses from too many options” yep... often “Less is more!” ;).
less as in "less devices" or less as in "less functionality/complexity per device"? :)
@@HenningSprang :) this interpretation can be applied in anything: if something is too complicated - focus on aspects that simplify its complexity; if amount of tools is overwhelming, organize their functions. To focus on a “simplicity” - that can be a structure or form is in my opinion essential - before moving onto the machines, plugins and sounds that help to realize the design. In architecture first is a skeleton, only later the focus falls on materials and colors. In art paintings are often sketched via pencil before artists move into pastels or oil paints.. So there is a reason why even in orchestral music composers used a single instrument such as a piano or guitar before moving onto an orchestration. Because it is easier to focus on a structure by limitations, then loosing grip of a structure by focusing on the effects, textures, and timbers. Just my 1 cent. 😅🤷🏼♂️
That's why I still use Reason 4 which is over 10 years old.
Great video! I have a hybrid setup where when in jamming mode Live acts as a multiplexer between devices, and then I can leverage it later for the final project. The problem I have is similar to the "too many choices" issue, in that I got greedy and decided I wanted to be able to record MIDI *or* audio. And I also got greedy and wanted to keep the Push 2 in the configuration. In my heart of hearts, I feel like I should abandon recording MIDI back from the devices, because it really leads to a lot of complexity and tradeoffs that I constantly fiddle with instead of being creative. And having the Push there makes it tempting to use Live as the sequencer, which makes me want to configure (read: optimize and perfect as a distraction) the macros, which is another rabbit hole of time suck distraction.
I bought a Deluge early 2020 and have been using that as my DAW ever since...I really enjoy using it...Sometimes I will even take my Deluge to work if Im working on a tune that requires intricate time consuming details...I get a fair bit of down time at work.
The thing with having too much possibilities was on point 😊
Choice paralysis be real
Interesting video. I write a lot of instrumental commercially licensed music under performance rights organization, BMI Inc and I use not only hardware synthesizers but also many acoustic instruments for the tracks that I write. On the acoustic instrument side, many times I'll record over the air (OTA) into a stereo digital recorder (TASCAM DR-05x) as it's easy to record and also portable, and during the writing process I can simply use some great studio headphones hooked up to it and re-record the track. But I still use a DAW for cleaning up the track, adding / modifying the EQ a bit, and add small effects like reverb. For "me" it's more of a ease of recording and portability that I find liberating.. Like the old 4 track tape recorder that I had back in the early 80s (I actually still have one stored away). I'm also thinking of buying a small 6 or 8 multi track recorder and match it up with an analog mixing board that I have, using that for my poly and monophonic analog synthesizers, again just for the ease and portability of songwriting, but in the end... again for "me"... It is easier to export the track(s) to my computer afterwards, and then edit and add effects / EQ in the DAW software.
What a fantastic and comprehensive video, thank you! As someone who has only gotten into synthesizers and hardware/grooveboxes over the last couple of years, there is definitely a weird mix of gear lust but also being overwhelmed, followed by shame, haha! Still figuring this stuff out for myself, I do have a question if you don't mind:
Whenever I set out to make something, I have a blast playing on hardware, and want to experiment more, but the recall factors you mentioned, plus stuff like sampling, gives me a strange blockade in my head that I'm wondering how you work around or mentally handle. Basically, every time I want to experiment more, or use hardware that doesn't have presets, I come back to "but how would I ever recreate this if I needed to play it live? It's a question that seemingly shouldn't matter to me as I'm not at that point yet, but internally I feel like I should adhere to so that when I do have songs I want to share, I can play them in a room or on a stage to an audience. How is this handled with parts that either have excessive layering, strange sample creations, or parts you really can't ever hope to recreate if you needed to do so?
I feel like it's probably a non issue, or maybe the answer is "you just play the .wav file, yolo", but then that feels wrong or like I wouldn't actually be playing it then. Why do I have this weird issue with needing to be able to re-create it? Have you ever felt like this, and how did you get past it? Do you create songs meant for live sets differently? I hope my question makes sense. I want to enjoy my gear and creative process more, and I know I'm the only one in my way, but these are things my mind keeps returning to as a way of stopping me from working because of the 'what if scenarios'.
Thanks again and keep up the awesome music and content!
Hi Brent 👋 Great question. There’s so many ways to approach live sets, from the “yolo .wav” 🤣 to fully recreating the setup. Honestly I think it’s best to approach a “live” version of song/track as it’s own thing that’s partially inspired by the original recording. Sometimes you gotta use stems, and that’s fine. Picking out the best parts that can be played live is a big part of that process. If you have a generative modular piece, there’s no truly recreating it, it’s always gonna be something different each time you play it.
So I’d worry less about recreating the original recording, and more about recreating the “feeling” of the recording 👍 Or just give it’s own thing for live performances. Lots of artists do it that way. Thanks for watching 🙏
@@TeftyMeems I think this is exactly what I needed to hear. It makes a lot of sense. Thanks so much!
Rewatching this with about a year of experience playing around with my setup, I have an MPC Live II, and I feel like that's a good option for people who want to reduce screen time without being TOO limited. It can do just about everything, and with MIDI and CV/Gate outs, it make a good hub/brain for additional gear. Currently the MPC One is about $700
I go Dawless sometimes. I have a Keystation Pro 88 that is controlling a few synths. Those synths are an Ensoniq SQ1 + (which has a great 16 track sequencer by the way ) A Behringer Deep Mind 12, and a Novation Mini Nova. I sometimes incorporate my iPad pro with it's soft synths, which are cool too. I use Cubase 11 for my Daw and have a huge amount of VstI's and compose mostly trailer scores for movies. A lot of orchestral. But when I just want to unplug, I do and it's fun!
I record from MiniNova and other keyboards and then use that as samples and take that into a Old version of Reason or Ableton 11. I have sythersizor app on My android tablet that records what's played as wave which makes it easy to use as samples. I have a 303 emulsion app on Android and I use that as a metrodome as it runs without being on screan and the sythersizor app only records it's own sound.
Great video. When I started to go Dawless I though that the Volcas were going to be a great starting point, but if you're serious about making music and want to grow and explore new things, they really fall short for being limited machines. You might end up like me realizing later that the 500€ that I spent on Volcas could have been spent on a Digitakt, which in itself has all the Volcas inside (except for the FM, that's a keeper!) and a lot more. So beware, consider your options.
As a side note, I know that there are people that can make awesome music with Volcas, I have nothing against those machines, but bear in mind that they are limited and not built for pushing the boundaries of music creation.
Thanks for the insight! I haven't tried a Volca yet, so I don't have any personal experience with them, yet. Cheers!
Can attest to the same thing - I think that largely they're a false economy - or at best a gateway drug. There are exceptions, I've seen some people create some fantastic music on volcas, but I think their main selling point is their size and their ecosystem - it's a niche piece of gear for a musician that has gaps to fill, or wants to create a very specific setup. If youre on a budget and starting out I think it's a dangerous route as it'll likely lead to disappointment.
I think you gave some solid advice. I’m returning to making electronic music and starting dawless like many others. I thought the Volcas were going to be my ticket for some reason and I bought like 6. Just like you I realized their limitations quickly and I’m selling them to get more advanced hardware and sequencing.
I agree with you on the FM.... Its the only Volca I couldnt do without
Hi, many thanks for this video and your thoughts. In my opinion, you are so right. And it´s funny, that your approach is really near to mine (but I am only a hobby musician). My Main-Hub ist the fantastic Squarp Pyramid (with the Digitakt as a Sidekick :-) ). I really appreciate your music und style. Thanks for sharing! Stay healthy.
Hello! We haven’t tried the Pyramid yet. That’s what’s great about DAWless right now....soooo many options in 2021 👍 Thanks for watching 🙏
Cool video, ive decided to go with a hybrid setup which uses Ableton as a drum and bass machine that I route into a mixer along with my hardware synths. I think it has the best ... and the worst of both worlds. On the one hand, having all of the options from Ableton makes it super versatile and the hardware synths give you the tactile immediacy that a DAW cant offer (even with a Push) , however on the flipside I would really struggle taking this thing on "the road" unless I made a dedicated live setup.
Great content thank you
As a musician with a decade long love with guitar pedals dawless feels like the next logical step for my gear lust. I would be super thankful if someone made a video about how electronic musicians practice in comparison to how more traditional musicians practice.
We just plonk away
In my case, is more about experimentation and fun than practice. With synths, is about designing sounds and creating cool sequences. Off course knowing a couple of scales is useful, but even that is not needed.
I've been playing with keyboards (midi and synths) for more than 10 years, and I still don't know how to "actually" play them. Regardless, I create music almost daily.
I know what you meant by practice. I started playing guitar and know that practice is extremely important. It just not like that with synths, at least for me 😉
Experimentation. Electronic music is vast, everyone does it in their own way. In electronuc music there is more making stuff and less practice.
First off thank you for doing this content! Very cool seeing the options you lay out on your channel!
In the last 2 years I got a Digitakt, MPC One, & keystep largely from watching your channel. I still consider myself a MIDIOT 😂...as far as not knowing what I’m doing but I’m enjoying the process.
A goal of mine that I haven’t totally fleshed out yet is playing midi hardware instruments as mentioned within a live band including live guitar & live drums. What I want to do is use my mpc one as a mixer of prerecorded stems of my original songs instead of relying on a computer or tablet for backing tracks. I like the idea of being as dawless as possible. I think this would also allow me to manipulate the stems kind of like what a DJ does. In my mind I’m assuming it would be as simple as uploading my stems & playing them together & using the mpc’s mixer to adjust volumes & effects etc.
Its probably not a perfect concept but at least for geeks watching a live performance (like us) the hardware is more interesting to watch being played live vs someone clicking play with a mouse for prerecorded backing tracks. I still have a long way to go but guys like you help me a lot!! 👊🏼🔥
Hi Wayne 👋 That sounds awesome! I’m always a fan of hardware being integrated into live music setups. Good luck on the setup 🙌
The recall process requires more work on your end, by documenting your favorite patches and setups. Most patchable instruments come with some blank "patch template" sheets at the end of the manual, you can use to make copies and write down your wiring and precise know/slider/button configurations. Yes, it's absolutely not as seemless and convenient as having built-in preset capabilities, but it gets the job done.
Thanks! I second the negatives, but still prefer DAWless over in the box. Question: what are the coloured cables you are using?
There from Seismic Audio! www.amazon.com/stores/page/E60EE6E6-783B-4CB4-A1B5-3DCD0185F35A?ingress=2&visitId=f814d36d-d4e3-4c84-8acb-fd3f2a5e1702&ref_=ast_bln&productGridPageIndex=2
Multi tracking is the way to go. I’m still on the fence of how I’m gonna do this. Meaning how many tracks do I need and what gear to get to accomplish this. I’m leaning towards the Tascam Model 24 as an all in one integrated mixer.
Get the Model 24! get a solid mix, record to SD, pull the file to your daw or record into your daw simultaneously. Main mix gets recorded to 23/24. Its more fun recording on the Tascam vs the computer for me
Tbh you can easily make a cheap DAWless setup for under 500. My first setup was a second hand Novation Circuit for 180, Behringer TD-3 for 150, a cheap 4 channel Soundking mixer for like 50 and used my dad's old FX unit which goes for around 80 on reverb. You can easily entertain a crowd with that setup for hours
i like the minimal approach to things.. that’s why i, at least at the moment, prefer a daw-setup.. you just need a computer, headphones and eventually a midi keyboard/controller!
before, making music on a computer was always unintuitive to me, i think that’s why i didn’t start making music until last year.. so i bought a groovebox and had fun with it, but soon i realized that for the sounds i like, it is not the best. i had not much sample space and i like making downtempo music, which often has long sounds and atmospheres.. i must say that i‘m not into sound design and synthesis, rather composing with presets and samples, i love kontakt instruments from native instruments.. also i didn’t like that whole cable mess and that i have to buy this and that so that i have things set up the way i like it..
so once i learned the approach to making music, i switched to a daw and it made making music with samples much easier for me.. you can still have limitations with a daw.. i have ableton live lite which has only 8 tracks and not as many devices as the full version.. i also love the native instruments maschine concept.. but since i switched to linux, that’s not an option at the moment.. i use the open source daw LMMS, which is by the way a great piece of software, but in comparison to other daws limited.. and you don’t have to have every plugin available, just stick with a few and you’re fine..
also, making music with the phone/tablet is a fun option.. i dont like that’s limited to apple devices mostly, but i think making music with touch devices in connection with a midi controller is the future and is a good compromise between daw and dawless..
so yeah, for some type of musicians, dawless jamming is not the best option :D and currently i’m enjoying the fact that i don’t have to do much menu diving..
Hey tnx for the rambling it’s been very helpful! I have the same thoughts as I’m setting up my gear towards preforming live without a computer.
The main problem with going dawless from my experience so far is the learning curve I have to give every piece of equipment after I buy it. It can take many hours and days to learn a new piece of hardware, and sometimes you can even eventually admit you have the wrong device. No one can say in advance what you need because no one can hear what you wanna hear at the end of it, besides yourself, that can be frustrating.
I’m really missing my “end piece” to chain up all my devices, would you say Mpc one could do it? From what I gather it’s not really built as a mixer... if not what would you say is the best device For the main dawless mixer at the end of the chain? Keeping in mind that the reason I’m doing this is to get a more “hands approach” to my music, so really complex instruments that needs programming aren’t really my thing, otherwise why go dawless in the first place? Tnx for this vid! Subscribed.
MPC one has the same software as there MPC beats DAW so it's not Dawless it's just the MPC is a dedicated music only device.
Well said! Do you record synths in mono or stereo? Trying to figure out how all that gear can fit on a 16ch mixer. Or do you use a patchbay to hardwire to the mixer inputs?
If it's club music youre producing, go mono. Never going to hear stereo in a club.
I've done some jams in the Bitwig, using the same idea of the hardware jam. Sometimes trying jamming with audio clips, made from the hardware jams. I don't like to compose in a DAW. Bitwig is pretty good, but yeah, it's much more creative making a beat on the Digitakt, hardware mixer and some my diy gadgets. I record the hardware jam on my iphone with a cheap mono iRig adaptor and the Audioshare app.
I grew up dawless when I started I had two ensoniq mirage a turntable and a tape machine now I'm still dawless exact for the last mile of production for combining video and audio
4:50 4XD12? Nice! :-) I say, as long as creativity is there... use what ever tools you have from acoustic and tactile instrument to a mouse and a touch screen. Enjoyed the video very much. Thank you :--)
Why do you need a mixer before the audio interface? What is the advantage of plugging everything into a mixing board first rather than directly into the audio interface?
I've been 100% in the box for 16 years. I've used MPC's for decades. I actually own the older MPC Touch and have been using it as a VST for the last 4 years. I'd probably start a hybrid setup with a Roland Jupiter XM and possibly the MPC Live 2 or One. I don't need it but I'm curious about it.
First time viewer.
Gotta see more
What song is that playing in the background? Did you make the song? Please share it!
Of course mixer and FX has now has changed with the MPC ONE being able to handle a USB Soundcard. Using this to run all your synths into the MPC, and then assigning on board FX from it. Starting with an MPC you get a number of soft synths and then you can choose the hardware synths to compliment these.
nice setup. jesus. held back on that comment till I saw the make noise modular that I've been slowly building module by module (unintentionally). In my far less experienced brain, I've thought of DAW vs DAWless as how you record the tracks in the end but that's probably because I get hung up there. That's why I'm trying to replace that entire Ableton process with an OT or MPC. Also I see the Samson patchbay, did that become obsolete when you went to the MOTU? My mixer dilemma always boils down to FX sends, and the patchbay makes that pretty simple since most 12 - 16 channel affordable mixers have 2 or 3 sends only.
I want to start my dawless setup for live performances with low cost obsolete obsolete vintage retro equipment, low fi, preferably with midi rather than sync or cv / gate, using drum machine, groove boxes, phrase sampler, korg monotron, volca, casio vl1, midi sequencer, guitar pedals, half rack midi modules etc, maybe a nintendo with the DS10 a casio sk1 etc, what do you recommend? I'm digressing? is it a lot of G.A.S gear syndrom acquisition?
What I am missing is a hugely customizable and expandable keyboard workstation with huge dawlike screen, loads of endless encoders with digital scratchpads underneath, with online updates, sample libraries and hardware slots inside for new synth engines etc. In effect it could be a kind of fully hardware Kontakt. You should be able to set it up how you want it with the ability to save setup snapshots. If I knew it would get me what I need and the ability to evolve I would pay a stack to start in such an ecosystem. Surprised Korg or Roland etc havent gone that route.
which dongle are you using to get the audio OUR from iPAD to mixer?
I was hardware only and loved it until I desperately needed a new sequencer.
Now with a DAW , there's no going back for me. Both is the best way👍
I don't think I would of got into production without a DAW but I would really love to get my hands on some quality equipment. I remember messing with a korg ms20 before I even knew about synthesisers that my friend had and I think he sold it for £20 which sounds ridiculous but that was how it went down. I would love that synth right now.
I use DAW and akai MPD32. I lay everything down w the mpd then tinker w Logic Pro. In Logic Pro you can have 100 different drum machines. It’s awesome.
Another option: just use the computer as a recorder, and connect all your hardware; synths, guitars, mixer, what not to it. You get the fun and sexiness of all that hardware, plus the ability to have better editing and mastering power. And using all hardware, you will not tax the CPU nearly as much as you would using tons of plug-ins, etc.