Repertoire: The BEST Brahms Fourth Symphony
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 12 พ.ย. 2023
- Recorded a million times, Brahms' final symphony boasts a large number of excellent versions. It's impossible to talk about all of them, but here are a dozen that offer a wide-ranging survey of conductors and orchestras. Take your pick and keep on listening!
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In the spring of 1992, I entered TOWER RECORDS in Northridge, CA, to browse through CDs, back in the day when you would do such a thing. Tower Records had a nice, large classical music section and a nice film score section, and those were the two sections I was most interested in back then. Suddenly, a piece of music was playing. I didn't know what it was, it sounded vaguely familiar (perhaps my parents listened to it when I was a kid), but I could not place it and did not know what it was. So I went to the counter and asked what they were playing. It was the then brand new recording of Brahms' 4th Symphony with Claudio Abbado and the BPO. They liked to play new and current releases in Tower Records back then. I instantly fell in love with that symphony through that recording, so it will always be special to me. In short, my first encounter with Brahms' 4th Symphony was listening to the Claudio Abbado/BPO recording on that day in Tower Records... yes, I stayed there just to listen to that recording (while browsing through the CDs), I thought it was beautiful. Since then, I have acquired a number of different recordings of Brahms's 4th, but the Abbado will always be special for personal reasons.
Every time I went in that store they were playing Karajan DVDs of films he'd directed! There was lots of conducting interspersed with driving around in sports cars as I remember.
I had a similar experience hearing Brahms 3rd in what was then ‘Fish Records’ in Sydney Australia in the early 2000s. Sadly, they no longer exist.
Another best is the Ormandy/Philadelphia version (in the EMI Great Conductors Ormandy set, the Sony Japan Ormandy Brahms Symphonies set and should be forthcoming in the Columbia Ormandy stereo set); a majestic and great sounding version, superbly played. I have read that Brahms was the composer most often programmed by Ormandy.
LPO/Jochum is in a class of its own. Fabulous orchestral playing, everything sings, Jochum's approach to phrasing and rubato is so special (the way the opening of the first movement 'steals in' and gradually finds its tempo is magical), and there is such inevitability in the way he builds the structure. The big moments are electrifying.
I love the Reiner / RPO cd (part of a Readers Digest RCA set, circa 1962) also Karl Bohm’s 4th is also magic. Cheers from Oz.
Oh boy, Brahm's 4th... the passacaglia that made me love all pasacaglias, specially the one in Vaugh Williams's fifth symphony.
Such a beautiful symphony. I must admit that I didn't like it at first, but then the themes got into my head and clicked, and the music has become dear to me. I defer to your well-articulated list, and I appreciate your suggestions of versions to look for and hear. I was pleased to get the Bernard Haitink/Concertgebouw version in the big Concertgebouworkest box. That version - which I only ever had on cassette tape a long time ago - is the one from which I got to know this work. I have the Günter Wand/NDR-Sinfonieorchester recording, but it is the one from 1985, so ALL of your recommendations still await me!
Waited for so long! Thank you! 🎉
Dear Mr Hurwitz!
Thank you so very much for making this talk about the best recordings of Brahms's symphony no 4.
I would also like to add that Reiner's recording of the symphony is available on streaming services.
Best wishes Fred from Kristianstad.
Aaah, home of the late Kirsten Flagstad.❤
My two favorites are the Toscanini and Stokowski (with LSO) . The combination of lyricism, expressiveness, beauty of sound and brisk tempi shines in both and they are two of the best recordings of anything I have ever heard. I will have to check out the Wand and Abbado you recommend. I have really come to appreciate Wand in good part thanks to you, and I agree that Abbado could be on or off but when he was on he was amazing. Thanks for the video David!
I agree to Toscanini and Stokowski! And will add Carlos Kleiber, And Karl Böhm both with the VPO
That's the kind of video I like more. Thanks
I find it hard to pick an absolute favorite. Reiner and Stokowski I love for their energy, Walter for his warmth, but sometimes I like to listen to the Honeck because it sounds imaginative and fresh. What a symphony!
I go now to find Reiner. I can't imagine. I CAN imagine a Reiner Brahms 1st!
YAY! I have the Kleiber, Klemp, & Jochum (Berlin). My first Brahms 4 was Bernstein/young people's concert.
At a tangent, living as I do in Chennai( Madras),India this was the first symphony I heard. This was a tv broadcast of a concert in New Delhi by the NYPO/Mehta in 1983 or so. Overture Candide, Beethoven’s C minor concerto followed by the Brahms 4th. Made me fall in love with Western classical music. More to the point, I am partial to the version recorded by Kent Nagano with the Deutscher Symphonie orchestra, Berlin. Seems ‘ logical’ and ‘ well argued’ is about as well as I am able to put it.
Wonderful, Dave. Great insights. I own or know many of them! Must investigate the Klemperer…my favorite is the ‘64 Karajan. I think it’s the starkest of his 3….”granitic” as you like to say.
As a freshman at the Cleveland Institute in Sept, 1969. the VERY FIRST work I listened to Jimmy Levine rehearse with the student orchestra (he had them playing as well as any second-tier orchestra in the country) was the BRAHMS 4th SYMPHONY. My landlady, an elderly Jewish woman who had fled Germany in the 3o's, stopped in to hear the same rehearsal. Later she said to me that she had to leave the hall, due to what she described as Jimmy's overly-intense, driven and almost angry approach to the work. I certainly didn't hear it that way, but what the hell did I know at that point? She obviously was used to a much more Mittel-European, sumptuous, relaxed style of Brahms conducting. Plus, I do believe Jimmy's approach mellowed a bit in the five years or so before he recorded his superb Brahms cycle with the CSO. LR
I have the Brahms Reiner on vinyl! It was one of my first classical records. This was probably back in my "audiophile" phase where I probably thought this was great strictly because it was on vinyl. No performance ever stood up to that record. Turns out it was just a great performance.
I absolutely luv that big Jochum Warner box.
I've missed these
Nice job, Dave, and I'm especially glad that you included Kleiber, Walter, Wand, and Jochum. Speaking of the London Philharmonic and of "singletons," what are your thoughts on the Tennstedt/London Philharmonic Brahms 4? As I recall, it was one of the earlier versions available on CD.
Great list of suggestions - Kleiber, Wand and Walter definitely qualify. Rattle with Berlin Phil, which I happened to hear live, is wonderful too
I've been listening to the Fritz Reiner RPO recording for a very long time. Nobody else captures that regret and reserved emotion of the elderly composer in the same way.
I would’ve chosen the spiritual, magisterial, deeply felt Giulini/Chicago version on EMI to top my list. As a contrasting approach, Levine’s amazing version with the same orchestra would be my #2. (Jochum I have yet to hear, it’s on order!)
I’d love to mention another one of your classics today recommendations: Kent Nagano with I think Berlin Radio. Stunning performance
Klemperer's rendition is my favorite. He deserves all the credits from Dave.
I think it's an old 30's recording with Walter and the BBC Orchestra where he does the most amazing thing with the ending of the second movement. There's an extended surge thing that he does with it on those last couple of bars that I've never heard anywhere else and it's amazing. Maybe it's just bad sonics but it works.
I sometimes think of this work as 3 distinct dreams of fear and struggle, aspiration and enlightenment, joy and ecstasy, and finally comes back to reality where life, through all of its glorious variations invariably returns to the grand void. Yet despite the finality of that last chord, I also feel that the cycle begins anew.
Maddening that Jochum's London Fourth is unavailable on either Idagio or Qobuz; First through Third are, which is yet another sign of how strangely the companies manage their catalogs. Thank you for continuing to introduce me to Sanderling. I've just listened to it, and "dark" is a good description. But his interpretation is also gripping.
It's not on Presto or Tidal either. Presto does not have the van Beinum RCO Brahms 4, but luckily I was able to find that one on Tidal.
Apparently the Reiner/RPO is not on Qobuz, either. Fortunately, I have the CD, and it is just marvelous. I found the Carlos Kleiber on Qobuz, and it is very good, though not quite in the same class as the Reiner in either performance or sonics.
This being my favorite symphony I have all the recordings mentioned except the first and about 2 dozen others. Recently I had to convince myself that I don't need any more copies of this piece and your review has helped reinforced my resolve. My favorite of all of them is the Bruno Walter stereo recording, which I find to be the most emotionally pleasing and the best balance between fast and slow tempos. The faster recordings emphasize excitement over pathos, but if too slow, the forward motion gets lost and things tend toward schmaltz. However I have noticed a significant difference between the different releases of the Walter recording on CD. The original vinyl on Columbia and then Odyssey plagued by noise. My favorite CD release is on Japan Sony, which has the least amount of noise reduction but maintains all the details. The later versions got rid of lots of the noise by sacrificed details. At some point I'm hoping that Sony will do yet another remastering with better noise reduction than the Walter boxes.
I was able to download the Reiner/Reader's Digest version from High Definition Tape Transfers. I got their lowest res version which is the most economical. I doubt my old ears would be able to hear any difference with higher sampling rates.
Off hand I can't think of any other versions that need to be in this list. Well done. Thank You!
Here's a strange question for you. I have just started a vinyl collection. I played with the RPO from 1984-89 and then with the Philharmonia from 1989-2007. Are there any recordings you particularly like from that period - it might be quite nice to buy something I'm playing on. I've got pretty much nothing, except the Zimmermann / Jansons Sibelius and Prokofiev violin concertos. Any top tips? CD if absolutely not available on vinyl - only because I have a turntable but no CD player.
Thanks for these insights, I had Kleiber as 'the' recording. Clinical Brahms. More Kleiber than Brahms.
Just wanted to point out, a propos of my appeal for more of your Repertoire surveys, that this video surpassed 10K views in just a couple of days. Your last Repertoire survey (Bolero) is also above 10K views now. So, if you want to build audience for this channel (and I want this almost as much as you do), then more Repertoire surveys of single works seems to be the way to go. The people have spoken! (all kidding aside, your finishing the Brahms symphonies, finally, is much appreciated).
Interesting! I’ll play the triangle next spring in the 4th in Montreal.
Not an easy part to the say the least. In fact, playing triangle is not as easy as implied. Your entry and exit articulations must be absolutely precise because EVERYBODY hears the triangle!
Good work Dave!
I only have the Weingartner and the Kleiber.
Levine's recording with the CSO was my introduction to the Brahms Fourth, and after 45 years (!), it's still one of my absolute favorite performances of the work.
I agree with you on all of the selections here! I am especially glad to see Jochum’s Brahms given as high praise as it is here. What did you think of Abbado’s earlier Brahms 4 with London? I think I like the artistic direction + the choice of hall better, but the sonics maybe aren’t as great as the later Berlin recording.
Video idea: A discussion of the various major orchestras in their present day incarnations and their various strengths and weakness. (e.g. reference the Chicago vs Vienna discussion).
Is there a great Brahms 4 with the Czech Phil? I didn’t see any reviewed on ClassicsToday when I searched, just the Belohlavek came up.
Now that they’ve become one of my favorite orchestras to listen to, I’m always surprised when they’re not on the list.
As a Philly resident, I have to ask which one would have made the list. Ormandy or Muti?
I was curious which of the Chicago recordings was going to make the list between Solti, Giulini and Levine.
I like the one with Czech Phil and Pedrotti. And for Philly my favorite is Ormandy . Both Pedrotti and Ormandy have very old sound , but it is full of impulses.
For clarity, it's Toscanini, both with the NBC symphony and Philharmonia! Even with old mono sound you can hear the triangle in the third movement better than in other performances. He does the finale with as much excitement as anybody else.
(Schmidt-Isserstedt)
Agreed. I knew Hans Schmidt-Isserstedt personally. He was one of the true greats.
I recently heard a recording of Brahms 4 by Pittsburgh under Marek Janowski, and was favorably impressed. It seems to me that the 4th is a bit of an underdog among the Brahms symphonies.
I have the Abbado, BPO on DGG, and it is wonderful. I found the Karajan, BPO recordings from the Seventies to be good, but I think that that Abbado has a slight edge over them.
Hi there, David. Could you do an episode talking about tempi on pre LP era recordings? I was listening to Fritz Busch doing Mozart operas as well as the Linz Symphony with the BBC (1934 I think) and wondering if his allegros were really that fast in live performances. With the time constraints of the 78, how much do you think conductors and soloists altered their interpretations to fit the format? Hopefully I've worded my question well. Love your videos and always look forward to hearing your thoughts.
Thank you for your suggestion. This topic has been discussed endlessly and no one has ever come to any firm conclusions about it. I'm not sure if I have anything meaningful to add to what has already been said, which is basically that sometimes recording might have had an influence, or they might not.
@@DavesClassicalGuide you know what, that's a good honest answer and I appreciate it. I'll take a listen to some of your videos where you talk mainly about historical recordings and see what you say there. Thx!
Dear Mr Hurwitz, it's always a pleasure to watch your videos and your music-critical insights. Thank you very much for your effort. If I am allowed, I wanted to ask you if you happen to know a somewhat unknown Brahms cycle with Neeme Järvi and the Estonian National Symphony Orchestra (Estonian Record Productions). Maybe you could listen to Järvi's 3d and 4th Symphonies, which I believe to be the best in terms of the tempi. I believe that they deserve a try and who knows? If you like them maybe you could produce a video critic on them. Greetings.
Thanks for the suggestion!
@@DavesClassicalGuide It's a pleasure!
Great choices, Mr. H.! My own personal favorites are Toscanini/NBC and Stokowski/LSO, but you won't find me disagreeing with any of your choices.
Great choices. These two are amongst the most "expressive" versions of Brahms 4rth. There is a recent upload of Toscanini's philharmonia Brahms 4rth. Simply marvellous. Hari
@@harinagarajan2296 Thank you!
Despite what Dave would probably call grotty sound, I love Toscanini's 1935 BBC Symphony live performance. And a 1948 NBC. In 1935, the first movement is so supple and yet powerful. And his adherence to the passacaglia tempo in the last movement is inexorably tragic yet never rigid.
@@bbailey7818 and even before that there are truly great things in the slow movement. The best I have heard. Hari
Apple Music has Jochum’s LSO Brahms 1-3 on one disc (Warner) with other couplings, but no 4th. The complete Berlin cycle is there. I found the LSO 4th on TH-cam, but I wonder why Warner did that.
As Dave has said, the classical music recording/discography industry is a mess.
Just for the record, Jochum's London cycle is with the London Philharmonic and not the London Symphony. He did record a superb Beethoven cycle with the LSO.
Hi Dave, you are right. I don’t care for the Klemperer, despite the robust 3rd movement. But the Levine IS devine! Thank you so much. Love Brahms, especially the chamber works. Also the Alto Rhapsody is from another planet.
Dave your experience and advice is very valuable but for those of us who use vinyl and not CD's it is a little frustrating, any love for some vinyl suggestions out there? (-:
Dave,
have you ever talked about Andres Orozco-Estrada? There are Lots of recordings on TH-cam with him and the Frankfurt Radio orchestra, and they are usually top quality in my opinion (I have not listened to all of them).
Orozco-Estrada is quite overrated. He's already done some fine work, but a lot of it is just boring. Just compare his Dvorák 8th with Honeck's performance with the same orchestra. It's night and day.
Besides, I don't think Dave is interested in discussing TH-cam performances.
You can find reviews on ClassicsToday.com--none terribly positive.
@@MisterPathetique He might be overrated and lots of his recordings are not very special. But it is still good quality and probably better than some of the artists that are discussed here.
@paxpaxart4740 when is Mahler not exciting?!at least in concert?why do you think all baby conductors choose mahler in their 20s?he s bullet proof
@@paxpaxart4740 no argument there. I m afraid you missed my point. ☺️
The Reiner/RPO recording on Chesky is just wonderful. Very taught performance, very beautiful. The recording quality is simply stunning, with Gerhardt and Wilkinson.
The Carlos Kleiber recording is quite good, I have to admit.
The Walter recording is great, of course, but not my favorite. I love his 1, 2, and 3, though.
TAUT... not "taught"!
Like many in the US, I bought Abbado’s first cycle from IPS on those rather poor Italian pressings…and I imprinted on it, as I was in high school at the time. I still think that 4th with the LSO is pretty darned good. As a whole, I prefer the earlier cycle to the later, and you have the added bonus of the 3rd played by Dresden.
Hi Dave, I read your reviews on Marek Janowski’s Brahms symphonies and agreed with you that they are brilliant. How come you never mentioned Janowski’s Brahms in your Brahms videos?
Because Pentatone didn't bother to keep them all available and I was really pissed. I was not going to send readers/viewers off on a wild goose chase to find them.
I'm not saying that it needs to be on this list -- but I'm just curious to know your thoughts on Markevitch's Brahms 4th (with the Lamoureux Orch.). Did Markevitch even record any other Brahms symphony?
It's terrific, and very easily could have been on the list, alongside Munch, Stokowski, Szell--there are so many candidates, but I wanted to limit the list to 12.
Thanks for this (and I was one of those clamouring for this video). One of the reasons was because I wanted to see where this one fell on the list (AND not part of a cycle). This one definitely rockets to the top of the list of shocking omissions. I remember being surprised and blown away when I heard this for the first time. The blazing trombones in the finale stood out (in the best sense) like almost in no other recording, and its just as strong in all four movements. At least Markevitch isn't otherwise shortchanged on you channel, otherwise omitting him would have been unforgiveable@@DavesClassicalGuide
Markevitch recorded a great Brahms 1st with the Symphony of the Air, but his 4th is definitely in a class of its own.
What - no Munch/Boston? I figured it would top off Mr. Hurwitz's list. Excellent sound, too. My current favorite is the live Stokowski/New Philharmonia from the early seventies - hell-for-leather, galloping to the apocalypse.
What a great survey! I know all of these recordings, so I listened for specifics and you provided them accurately and with real understanding of the distinguishing characteristics of each performance. The majority of your list features German-Austrian conductors: Jochum, Reiner, Wand, Walter, Klemperer, Kleiber, Sanderling, Honeck…one of the commenters mentioned Schmidt-Isserstedt, another German, which remains a favorite of mine to this day. Germanic temperament? Or historical and cultural affinity? Not sure what’s behind it, but there it is. Germans do it best.
Great list and recommendations. I miss the really long repertoire videos with a few howlers and loads more recommendations - maybe I'm in the minority though. I would definitely have Stokowski in this list, I don't think anyone does the first movement coda as well as he did it in one of his last recordings (or maybe his last?), borderline frenetic! I also like Thomas Dausgaard as a more left-field choice in amongst a list of big name conductors.
Yup, Stoky at his best on the 4th. I give a slight edge over to his concert recording over his studio because of the full on french horn sound.
I also enjoyed Edward Gardner with the Bergen SO on TH-cam. No fuss and feathers. I thought a lucid and affecting performance with a conductor who has a fine presence on the podium.
I think Reiner said his 4th with the RPO was his finest ever recording.
Even if he didn't it is a very fine performance.
Even if he did, I wouldn't care. What does he know?
Thanks so much Dave for such a comprehensive survey! As a student, out of curiosity (and because it was on a budget Decca LP!) I bought Ansermet's version and was pleasantly surprised! It also had a nice Academic Festival Overture too.
Ansermet is very good in his Brahms cycle.
The very first performance of the Brahms 4th that I bought and listened to was Karajan's 1964 recording with the BPO. As smoooooooth as whipped cream. Not my favorite performance, I prefer a more taut classical approach, but the lushness of Karajan's 1960s sound somehow seems to work with this symphony. Not bad big band Brahms (say it fast).
I agree with all your recommendations. However…you missed Stokowski who was your top choice in a video of some time ago. Why have you changed your mind?
What makes you think I changed my mind? I explained why I needed to limit the list and I simply wanted to feature other versions this time around.
Still, no reason to leave the Best fourth (Stokowski) out of the Best Brahms fourth video
Interesting review. The Kleiber/Wiener recording is always recommended as one of the best but I don't think it's even in the top 10.
Perhaps, but it is in the top 20 or so.
David, you’ve been cracking me up a lot lately. You seem to be in high spirits as well.
Dear Mr. Hurwitz,
in your video "The IDEAL Brahms Symphonies, Concertos etc." you have made Stokowski your favorite Fourth. But it isn't in THIS list! Why? Maybe there are already too many videos...
😉
Because there are far too many excellent versions than it makes sense to include in any one discussion, and the sooner you learn that we're talking about a galaxy of excellent versions rather than THE ONE in each case, the better it will be for your understanding of what makes listening to recordings of the classics fun and enjoyable. I explained very, very clearly that the "Ideal" lists are not necessary "the best" or even my favorites. They are lists of works that contain no weak links--that are consistently excellent--but there could easily be numerous other lists that are just as good. Indeed, I invite viewers to provide their own, and many of those turn out to be excellent too.
Van Beinum and Jochum, but no Haitink (with Concertgebouw or Boston Symphony)?
Nope.
Haitink live with the LSO is enjoyable. I'd rather listen to it than any "renowned" performances recorded with Flinstones-era equipment.
Berglund and Solti get my vote.
I think Solti is the best for this symphony -- and also the first
Yes, Solti rocks all 4. Great interp., great orchestra, beautiful sound.
@@christophersmith6841 He does the 3rd, my personal favorite, especially beautifully. I actually never could find anything that grabbed me in 1 and 2 until getting the Solti cycle. Paavo Berglund with the Chamber Orchestra of Europe is one I found recently, and was really impressed with.
@@christophersmith6841 I too believe Solti the most exciting, gut-wrenching cycle. It is authentic, masculine, rugged Brahms. Never heard any interpretation as good in all respects. jochum and Sanderling are pretty and slowish tempo, but in my view not what Brahms intended
I would recommend the Jochum EMI/Warner box, if it can be bought at a reasonable price.
I concur along with Klemperer
An extraordinary work. As you say, there’s an amazing fusion of formal intelligence and emotion here. It’s operating on some other level than most late 19th century music. So many recordings but I’m not going to quibble with your choices, except that I find Kleibers scherzo annoying for repeated listening (breaks up the phrasing of the main theme) and I think Giulini is generally marvellous, but in response to some comments here, I don’t think Brahms is at all “spiritual” and if you try to do him that way, it’s unlikely to work… I have a Giulini/ Concertgebouw recording of this, and I found it (just me!) a bit dull.
The influence of Bach's cantatas is emphasized by commentators, but perhaps relating to it that way (spiritual) has to do with a certain tradition.
I thought your favorite would be Stokowski with the LSO. I'm surprised 😊
It's a great list!
See comments below.
Strangely, Jochum's Brahms with the LPO on Apple Music only has symphonies 1-3.
The Fourth was coupled on CD with the Tennstedt German Requiem, so if they are duplicating physical product releases, that is where you'll find it.
Whenever I hear or see the word "clump"-guess who comes to mind?
I have no idea...
Let me guess: Otto Clumperer?
@@falesch 😀😀😀👍👍
Glad to see so many of my favorites listed, including the Jochum - but the sound, 50 years old!, is not all that great listening with headphones. A bit strident and raw to my ears. Still, far better than the original Angel pressings.
I think it sounds fine. I note from past comments that you seem to be a "sound guy" with very particular audio preferences. Many 50 year-old recordings still sound terrific, so that doesn't worry me.
No Giulini/CSO was a surprise
Chicago was covered by Levine. As I said, I wanted to give a range of orchestras.
Giulini was a very fine Brahms interpreter. I am agree with you 👍
You are always forgiven.
I love Brahms 1st and 3rd symphonies (Szell, Bohm, Furtwangler, Jochum), and the Abbado recording of Symphony no. 2. However, I have never been a big fan of Symphony No. 4. Even my favorite conductor George Szell was unable to win me over on that Symphony. I have like 10 (rough estimate) recordings of the Symphony, yet the Carlos Kleiber recording, is the only one that came close to being interesting.
I would rank the Honeck recording as one of his finest (at least, up to now!)
The coda of the first movement is absolutely pitiless, the third movement actually sounds like a scherzo, and hearing the Pittsburgh horns scream in the Passacaglia is exciting beyond belief. The more I listen to it, the more it blows my mind.
I think Honnek s inspiration is always Kleiber