Burnout Compressor change (R410a) with acid cleanup
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ส.ค. 2024
- This video shows changing a burnt R410 2 ton Trane compressor from start to finish. I also diagnose the likely cause of the burnout from the leaking evaporator and low refrigerant charge. Cleanup is done with HH type filter dryers on the liquid and suction lines. The video also shows the evaporator replacement.
Your level of workmanship is exemplary.
Very well done.
A great guide for those young apprentices.
This is the best of the best channel for learning and information. No flamboyant BS just calm honest info in real time.
Very well explained and detailed. I have been doing AC repair for years and could not have done better. Well done
Thanks for the comment.
Great job fixing it up! I like the silicon idea to stop pipes rubbing.
Silicone on rubbing pipes. Great tip. Thanks
I'm in HVAC school and your videos are really helping me understand how the system is set up. Thanks!
It takes 2 years to really learn residential. And there is more money is residential than commercial. But, learning selling too really helps.
I have no idea what he is doing but thumbs up because it is impressive.
That system is going to still be full of acid , flushing it would have been the way to do it right , you have to get out as much as possible , then add burnout dryers !
Oh wow that was a great video. I enjoyed watching it. Thank you. Hope to see more.
Very nice overview of most of the issues to track and verify. Thank you!
No-Acid by Cool Air Products will neutralize any Acid that might be still in the system and will help protect the new Compressor and other key components. Great video, Thanks
I have never found a need for those products. A suction filter always did the trick.
That much Nylog might be ok on this conventional split.. but I've run into Nylog clogging TEV on mini split unit especially multi port units..
great video excellent repair!! thx for sharing👍👍
The product literature says Nylog is soluble with the base compressor oil. The manufacture says overuse isn't a problem. However, I have seen some nylog resting next to a piston once when I used it on the teflon seal. The system may have run for a few days and the nylog didn't dissolve. But, it was still gewy. The ingredients are kept secret. Did you take apart the expansion valves and look for Nylog inside them? You might have a point about treating this stuff as harmful to the system even though the manufacture says it isn't. Thanks for the observation.
@@NathansHVAC I use nylog too but just don’t put as much.
Good vid. A little heads up. Co2 Has Alot of water in it. Not good to use inside system. Charge that cylinder your using to blow out evap with with Dry Nitrogen. It will Help your evacuations go faster. Were u breaking the evacuations with the 410a you had under the jug or nitrogen on the triple evacs. For Faster evacs Purge entire system with Dry nitrogen for a Minute or two. Evacs willbe noticably faster. Nice job overall.
It is not necessary to have "dry" gas when a system is going to be evacuated. The evacuation pulls out 99% of the moisture. Then, the filter/dryer pulls out the rest unless the moisture level is above the capacity of the dryer (which is usually 10-20 drops. Most CO2 suppliers have a "dry" CO2 option where they use the same "dry" CO2 from the refinery, but fill evacuated tanks instead of just empty ones. This costs about $50 per 20 lb bottle instead of $30. But, even being certified "dry" doesn't mean there aren't any molecules of moisture remaining in the gas. We live on a very wet planet and I would be surprised if any substance is completely free of water molecules including pure silicon chip stock used for chip fab. It is just a question of what is an acceptable amount of contamination? Chip fabs accept seven 9's of purity. (99.9999999%) An air conditioning system with a filter dryer could easily accept just a single 9 of purity (99.9%). Going more pure doesn't create any benefit.
A couple comments:
Filter dryers should never be unbrazed or unsoldered, they should be cut out. Heating the filter dryer forces collected moisture to be released back into the system.
Suction filters should be removed from the system after the acid and debris clean up is complete.
RTV silicone is acidic and not recommended for use on copper.
The dryer remains cool enough to be hand held. The core needs more heat and more time to dehydrate. Plus, won't the new dryer just reabsorb the moisture? GE silicone 2 is non acidic. But I have never seen green copper from silicone. I have seen silicone used by many manufacturers.
@@NathansHVAC I'm just relaying industry information. As per Emerson, the filter dryer needs to be cut out and not removed with heat.
There are in fact different RTV formulations. I've seen acid cure RTV corrode copper over time. I use electronics grade RTV on anything metal, but as long as GE II is not acid cure, it should be ok.
Very interesting. You should do a video on Amana PTAC units
Excellent video. Great demonstration skills.
Keep up the good work. Cheers
Holy crap, was that an 8” hole cutout for the entire ain’t handler? That removal of the horizontal pan didn’t help at all if that was the only cutout.
I’ve see undercutting of top takeoff on duct but never something that severe.
Nuts out there.
I like that blower thing for the sanding grit.
Excellent fix man. Good work.
really smart man. thanks for the video
Really enjoyed the video. I was wondering about the ascroft gage.I have a robinair and its not much. For some reason it will turn on by itself and kill the batteries.Hope to see more videos. Oh yea ,you need to use a backup wrench on those Roto locks to prevent twisting. I learned that the hard way.
+MrMultitool The Ashcroft is $400, but well worth it. It is deadly accurate and temperature compensated. Many of the HVAC grade gauges go crazy when liquid refrigerant touches the diaphragm and swings the temperature.
You should use oil on the Roto lock fitting. This helps a lot to prevent that twisted pipe. Get the oil out of the compressor
when he pulled out the blackberry phone I had to double check the date this was made lollllll
I use the Samsung Galaxy Note 5 now. It works great with my gloves.
@@NathansHVAC DID YOU HAVE TO RECOVER ANY REFRIGERANT...OR JUST PULL THE VACUUM?.... GREAT VID BY THE WAY
you did a very good job.
excellent job Nathans
The compressor should hardly ever be an issue as long as the system is installed correctly. A lot of HVAC installers are incompetent nowadays and do hack installs do to the lack of proper training. Some do it on PURPOSE to make extra money. That’s simply not right, and it is stealing. Both that compressor and evaporator coil were installed exactly as the manual said to do it, and it should run for several years now. If air conditioners are installed properly, they should definitely last at least fifteen years. Maybe even twenty five!!
If you go to 3:20 you will see why it was a burnout. An entire system is running on an 8” cut out.
Glad to see someone else use Staybrite 8.
You missed removing the Acoil horizonal discharge brackets ....Its in the directions that come with the coil .... Remove the 4 screws on the top of the coil give it better air flow .... I just replaced one under a 10 yr A/S extended warranty and made a nice profit/job for both myself & the customer ... Airflow over the coil is very important .... My comment on the thread sealant would be ...why ? Ive never had any problems with the coil connections leaking ...
He mentioned that they can seaze due to mechanical "welding" I have seen it happen on garden hose connections :-)
Enjoyed your presentation
OMG. there are lot of knowledge here. Thank you so much for sharing.
By the way, how did you lift up and remove the bad compressor, and then put back the good one because it is at least 75 lbs to 100 lbs. In general, how much is this job cost (replace compressor and A-coil). Thanks for the video.
compressor handle tool is the easiest. Vise grips work too grabbing the eye hook on smaller compressors.
@@NathansHVAC My Carrier compressor is over 34 years old and I was told it can be gone anytime soon and that is why I am here to understand a little bit on HVAC. Thanks for the video.
You sweeps in between vacuums could be done with dry nitrogen, instead of refrigerant, which ends up in the atmosphere. You could add an access T at the evaporator equalizer flare, to properly set your superheat at the coil. Didn’t see you purge with nitrogen while brazing in the driers. Take this not as criticism but just suggestions and observations. Manufacturers suggest replacing the metering device, which you did, and the reversing valve after a burn out. Seems like the valve might have gotten some contamination in the pilot lines. Sometimes it will clear itself Good video.
Nitrogen is a contaminant. On residential, the superheated is usually fixed. You are right about soldering. The inside does stay cleaner with inert gas.
@@NathansHVAC it is illegal to sweep with refrigerant, if you do not recover it. ( I gave the preparation, and CFC certification tests as part of our apprenticeship training). Sucking it out with the vacuum pump doesn’t qualify. Dry nitrogen is the industry standard for purging and leak detection. It is only a problem if you don’t do a proper evacuation, and leave non condensables (the nitrogen) in the system. Triple evacuation went out years ago, unless you have a system full of water. It has been proven that one good deep vacuum, monitored with a micron gauge, is just as effective. Evaporator superheat is checked at the tail coil of the evaporator, both temperature and pressure ( why you need a tap). You may have a non adjustable TXV, but you still have to check superheat and subcooling. I’m sure you know all this.
Hi i am from Russia , good job!!! but in Russia, when compressor is burnt we are cleaning all refrigeration system and i think in your repair need to wash condenser coil.
Do you use the 6% solder in this video for all of your joints? Or was it only for this application to not create heat inside the condensor?
Exactly
Nice job man. You do good work I like it.
Much to my surprise I learned that HH driers actually have less acid neutralizing capacity than normal driers.
Did you have to go through so many steps with r22 systems (mineral oil)?
So many parts changed. How much does a repair like thus cost on average?
That System Looked Like someone put " Super seal " in it. Leak stop. The oil sample u did had the gray stuff in it which is a for sure sign of the Super sealproduct and it has a Major ether smell to it too. Ill bet that is what u are smelling too. That stuff plugs up your guages too. Happened to me high side guage got super seal in it and guage started not working right.
OcRefrigeration,Hvac & Electrical. Superseal is basically super glue. It hardens when contacting moisture.
How do you connect an aluminum evap coil to the line set? Braze? Solder?
I have an issue with our AC unit (split system). Tech states the compressor needs replacing. It keeps tripping the breaker. I had the evaporator/condenser coils cleaned about a month ago. Less than 2 weeks afterwards, my tenant complained that the system was blowing warm air (not cooling). Tech went out stated some sort of leak..got system back up and running. 4-5 days afterwards same symptoms - warm air. This time they replaced a fuse - not sure which one. 4-5 days after this visit..same thing - warm air. Tech goes out - states breaker is tripped. He replaced the condenser fan motor ($350)/up and running again. 3 days later - same thing but air is completely off. Breaker is tripped. I had electrician go out and he stated there is something grounded between the disconnect and the condenser unit. Troubleshooting - breaker was switched back on and all pwr in the house was lost. Tech came back out and stated that it is now the compressor! The wires were burned out as if an arc came thru the wiring. He states it prob was lightning due to bad weather. I don't buy it. That is one hell of a coincidence - lightning strikes the only appliance which was already experiencing issues.
System is 20yrs old (5 ton) but it was running fine until the coil cleaning. I really feel like my system was damaged during this cleaning.
This video sparked what I have been thinking - a leak may be the root cause of fan and compressor overheating and failing? Does this follow logic?
Can they check for leaks/refrigerant levels while compressor is down?
Any insight is helpful. I cant put a $1000 in this system - makes more sense to purchase a new one.
Help.
Evaporator coils are on low pressure side of equipment and after coil cleaning with caustic cleaner like Nubrite they can start to develop or open up microleaks in coil that were packed with dirt or debris. Almost better on 20 year old equipment to look at replacing. Leaks can cause compressor to slug intially when coil pressure and temperature drops low enough to freeze up the coil due to moisture in the ambient air, low airflow over coil causes refrigerant to flood back to condenser. Once charge is low enough to not freeze up coil if compressor was lucky enough to not have been damaged from slugging (if unit had suction accumulator or other compressor protection like evaporator freezestat) it would now run hotter due to not enough refrigerant which also helps cool compressor windings. Lucky if just trips motor overload. Seems like maybe coil cleaning started the issues but the age of equipment didnt help. I used to always recommend just replacing worn out equipment or would give a disclaimer about the potential results that could happen from a pull and clean on old units.
Just twenty year piece of junk replace it and install surge protector and change filters regularly. Thx
Great job 👍
I don't understand some techs. obsession with this nylog stuff. What does the manufacturer's info have to say about it? Is it possible to contaminate the system with this stuff? The only thing I have used is a bit of refrigeration oil.
Yes, I would think you can use an antiseaze electrical grease as well. But those things can bond together over time.
Soft solder on R410a??? Soft solder was used back in the 80s in the uk and the industry had massive problems with leaks and that was on R22!!
The Nonsense That is Ozone-Depletion
"Holes" in the ozone argument:
1) Freon is heavier than air: how do molecules heavier than air get to 30,000 feet (the beginning of the stratosphere)?
2) The "hole" in the ozone over the South Pole was "discovered" by satellites in the '80: if it was just "discovered", how do we know IT WASN'T THERE ALL ALONG ? ? ? ?
3) There is a perfectly logical reason why there is less ozone over the polar regions: THERE IS LESS SUNLIGHT THERE TO PRODUCE OZONE IN THE FIRST PLACE, especially in winter ("land of the midnight sun...")
4) Antarctica (South Pole) has the highest average elevation of any continent (8000 ft): Does that have any effect on ozone quantity????? (The North Pole is all at sea level and there is no ozone "hole" there. (Why not?)
5) The offending atom is CHLORINE (very common), not CFCs themselves. The argument goes that the CFCs carry CHLORINE up to the stratosphere. There are other compounds of chlorine in the atmosphere -- that's one of the things you smell when you go to the beach --> "salt water" --> i.e. sodium-chloride. Is the ocean a source of "ozone depleting" chlorine compounds?
6) Most basic of all, ozone (O3) is an EFFECT of UV blockage, not a cause. [O3 is an unstable molecule that needs a lot of energy to produce, e.g. the ozone you smell around arcing engines. There is less ozone at the poles b/c there is less UV to generate it (just like there is less sunlight to keep the place warm in the first place.
I hope the public is beginning to see how dubious this ozone scam is. Monstrous mistakes like this DO happen - think the ban on DDT and malaria deaths.
The Ozone Scam
th-cam.com/video/9Szs-treHwQ/w-d-xo.html
The Nonsense That is Ozone-Depletion
www.ourcivilisation.com/ozone/king.htm+
Look how we've been "had" by this "ozone depletion" scam:
In other words, CFCs probably have NOTHING to do with Antarctic ozone:
th-cam.com/video/lBu3vltczRw/w-d-xo.html
In other words, the× Montreal Protocol is a complete fraud:
Min 0:30: "Measurement of SURFACE 'ozone depleting substances' (chlorine? are you measuring ALL atmospheric chlorine compounds?).
th-cam.com/video/uVeTJSIbGm8/w-d-xo.html
1987 - Montreal Protocol. Remember that date in this music-tracked piece of manipulative propaganda.
Listen for the weasel words and disclaimers.
th-cam.com/video/Ll_TR7C4xr4/w-d-xo.html
Ozone hole is "healing" (scientific term). Can't you tell?:
th-cam.com/video/taTzqRHNIEc/w-d-xo.html
A discussion of atmospheric chlorine:
api.nationalgeographic.com/distribution/public/amp/news/2010/3/100310-sea-spray-ocean-colorado-pollution
Natural Chlorine? You Bet! (American Chemistry Counsel)
"Many of these chemicals are identical to highly publicized manmade organochlorines: chlorophenols, chlorinated hydrocarbons, PCBs, CFCs and dioxins."
chlorine.americanchemistry.com/Background-Natural-chlorine-You-bet-/
Min 2:00 Listen carefully: in other words, the ozone hole has been there since AT LEAST the 50s, before CFCs were widely used.
Min 15:00 "interesting scientifically" - must be fun to have these kinds of research grants and boondoggles. Great work if you can get it.
th-cam.com/video/AU0eNa4GrgU/w-d-xo.html
How EPA is screwing up your car's air conditioning.
th-cam.com/video/wm56tV5BbJk/w-d-xo.html
Lousy car air conditioning:
th-cam.com/video/5jKRiDtcBrs/w-d-xo.html
Guy says we should use explosive propane as refrigerant
th-cam.com/video/pv_fxOuLuZU/w-d-xo.html
.
Why The Banning Of Chlorofluorocarbons Is Paranoia
www.ourcivilisation.com/ozone/index.htm
Min 6:00 -- two different kinds of chlorine...
th-cam.com/video/kmfAM8kQrjU/w-d-xo.html
Your a great tech
Hi Nathan, it's been a little while since you did this but hopefully you get my message. Anyways I love your Co2 tank. I don't know what your trigger is though. I got my old tank from my old paintball gun, but the tank is still mostly full so it so hard to pull the trigger. Can I ask you what trigger you have. Also I was planning on refilling my Co2 tank with nitrogen off my bigger bottle when it's finally empty.
Great Video !
Thank you.
Nice video sir appreciate it
why use the shroud on the compressor? wouldn't that keep all the heat on the compressor instead of cooling it off that probably why it burned out
What best leak detector brand/modelfor gas like R134a, R22 and R404?
Using suction filter, can I skip system flush?
I always flushed automotive systems with 91% alcohol, and it cleaned more crud than any commercial product ever tried. AlwYs got disappointed with other products when stacked them against 91% alcohol
In the case with home ac/heat pump I am vary that there will be alcohol left in a system, that I wouldn't be able to purge out the system with just pressure.
All that stuff, receiver, directional valve, muffler, I am worried alcohol will collect inthere, and may not be able to get it out of there, and same with whatever else commercial cleaner solvent.
So I was wondering, can I just use suction drier, and liquid line drier, layer replace them and get away with solvent flushing to not even attempt it? Just use filter driers as directed and that it, can it be done that way, filter driers use only?
Yes. The suction filter will pick the burnt stuff fine. System flush isn't possible. My experience on this subject is 100 compressors. I only had to redo a compressor change out once on a job that was in the rain.
Hello, I have the compressor COM08672. I think that's the same as you have there. Can you please tell me how much oil is in the compressor?Many thanks!
Great job!!!one question,,,if you have a coil that it's r22,(compatible for r410)but your gonna replace condenser to R410A do you have to flush the evap coil???or just the line set???thank you!!!
If the coil is old, I would replace it because it will soon leak. The mineral oil isn't a problem. There is no need to flush unless you have a nasty burn out that smells. You can have up to 80% mineral oil contamination and still have enough POE oil to return the mineral oil to the compressor. However, another thing to consider is condenser refrigerant charge for a heat pump application. If you have a heat pump, the evaporator has to be large enough to hold the refrigerant charge. All the 14 SEER evaporators are sized larger than the older 12 SEER ones. A/C only is fine.
First time watching your videos, pretty good swap out !!
How do you know when the compressor is burn out ? Is something specific to look at ?
I always went by the odor. Just pinch the suction service valve core and spray some in oil mist into your fingers. The acid odor is distinctive. Then, a confirmation is dumping some compressor oil after the old compressor is removed. Black oil doesn't necessarily mean a burn out. But, I always considered black oil as a burn out.
+NathansHVAC thanks
What if there is no oil on compressor?
@@ernestogalindo3149 get the little testers Qwik check
great video , will you share some tips how to do maintenance on you leak detector . that'd be great!
The srl8 is the best for r410a. Just change the sensor yearly or if the leak detector starts acting nice. When the sensor is running most sensitive this leak detector is very annoying to use because it goes off for everything including your breath. But it will never miss leaks.
Good video, but a let of work just to get system back running. Why not install a new HP and coil, flush line set or replace it so that there no issues with contaminated oil left inside the system and a new warranty for the customer and maybe better comfort.
It was a warranty job.
Great job give me ideas as well
Micron gauge should be never near the pump connections. Should be closer to the compressor valve, other wise you would get a micron miss reading
The difference is about 100 microns. I verified that. I like the ease of setup this way and neater connections at the unit. The main difference is using 3/8 hoses instead of 1/4 hoses. The vacuum is 10x faster with the larger hoses and the valve cores removed.
Curious, how much to do those repairs?
Are aluminum evaporators better than copper ones? IMHO, copper ones are more durable! Thanks!
Yes. Carrier used them in the 80s and they never leaked. They did screw things up with mechanical rotolock fittings on them though. Now, aluminum is back. I think the copper problems are supply chain purity problems of recycled copper making it into the new copper. Impurities were probably making all the pin holes. But, no manufacturer is willing to admit that.
Do you like the Stay Brite? Thinking about using on all 7/8 and below to keep from having to purge.
It works good. I used to use it a lot for the same reason. However, I was suspicious about the flux getting into the system. I mostly braze now and don't bother with inert gas unless I have a whole lot of joints to solder.
Do those low and high pressure switches on the pipping have shraeder valves in the fitting so the switches can be removed without losing any refrigerant? Thanks?
+Wayne Miles All the US manufacturers have to follow UL (underwriters laboratory) requirements. UL says the manufacturer can put a valve core under a low pressure switch, but not a high pressure one. It is a stupid rule, because many manufacturers don't even put pressure switches on at all. Trane didn't put any cores at all. You can tell if you have a core if the refrigerant comes out when you back out the safety two turns. But, this is risky. High pressure switches will never have cores. Low pressure ones are a crap shoot. But, the low side can easily be pumped down any way. So, I usually pump the system down.
Where you order the Teflon rings from?
Did you clean the lines after remove the burned conpresor and beford to install the new one?
A suction filter cleans up the system good enough. The suction side is the only side that will catch the soot before it contaminates the new compressor.
You can still blow them out if you are scary lol
do the acid driers get rid of the disgusting smell? I've noticed on capillary systems after a compressor change the system still stinks 😐
Rich Carter only a suction dryer will clean up a system. it is because the Freon is a gas and not a liquid. liquid Freon washes out the liquid dryer. and yes, use an acid dryer for a burn out.
NathansHVAC cheers man for the advice 😃
would you recommend replacing the TXV on a burn out? Thanks
That is only done in automotive where the metering device is also the strainer catching compressor pieces. In residential, the filter dryer is separate and can be replaced without replacing the txv. If the oil looks burnt, a suction filter dryer should also be installed to clean up the system and prevent a new burn out. I have a video on this subject
My r22 compressor went out. It was made in 2002. My evap coil is 410 and was installed 2012. The guy wants to get a 410 condenser and reuse my r22 in the system. Will this work?
It will work. But you will lose some capacity. You are better to change the evaporator also.
The evap is fairly new though. The evap is a Trane 4 ton.
Im guess he’s just not wanting to flush the system or change the valving. I’ll have a 410 rated system. If I did run into some leaks down the road and don’t want to mess with R22 prices. I could do the flush and valves and dryers and do the conversion later?
Im also wondering why I would lose capacity. People are saying 410 is 4% less efficient than r22 and the percentage goes up as the temps climb above 100.
You must flush the lines when compressor burnout and also an oil blow out
The area of the condenser is much larger. There is no practical way to flush a condenser coil. A suction filter does pick up all the contamination before it reaches the compressor sump. There is nothing wrong with flushing the lines. But, in my opinion it is over kill when a suction filter is installed.
Rx11 will help remove oil from the surface of the copper, nitrogen purges will get rid of most of the oil after a flush. It is most certainly possible to flush a coil.
Also, a suction filter drier will hold around 13 cubic inches of oil in it. If your compressor calls for 10 oz of oil, you should be ether sizing a filter to your total oil accumulation, or to what acidic oil you have left in the system after a flush based off of your logic. That compressor will go bad again before its normal life span. Once polyester oil is contaminated with acids, it will continue to reproduce in the existing oil especially when the temperature gets as high as it does at the discharge line. You must remove as much as possible.
If you put a vapor acid test kit on this system, you will most certainly test positive. Scavenger will help neutralize it, but not if you havnt flushed.
Also, acid and gaskets do not work well together. Txv and compressor will be damaged from this. If you experience a burn out, you must flush the system or you will be puting a bandage on the problem.
@@allycias5625 I have done several burn outs using Nathan's method... I have yet to see a reason to change my practice... the industry has a job to sell "you" on buying products and things that are over kill... anyway, if your practices work to the betterment of the client, keep at it. I have a solid reputation for good reasons... my systems and repairs hold up.
I suppose at this point it is up to other people to decide what they want to do. I have also done many burnouts and it is important to collect most of the acid. The dryer rarely collects it all. Most of the systems I've cleaned acid from are 5 ton units. After dryer runs for 2 weeks, I still get positive acid in the system. Any neoprene in the system at high acidity can break down. This means any time you hook your gauges to a positive system you risk damaging them. This is why shraders often leak after a burnout if not tended too.
I have serviced a couple systems that had leaky shraders, replaced compressor after burnout, and the service port o ring in the cap looks like grape jelly. Just last week I had a 36k minisplit Schrader leaking so bad, I had to pump the system down because the cap was the only thing holding back refrigerant. After taking the Schrader out, I noticed the clear gasket was completely gone. Ofcourse! No surprise. We are both speaking from experience so it's up to everyone else to figure out what they want to do
Nylok keeps the nut from splitting.
Only brazing papa!
how does that fieldpiece work for you?? I heard yes and no
I like that it is small and accurate. I haven't had a single issue in 2 years with it.
Your pressure was low because you didnt debur your piping. Liquid refrigerant will boil at these joints. Dont sweep with refrigerant and put that micron gauge on the equipment preferably the evap coil so when you valve off the unit and watch for micron rise it will be accurate. And 20 degrees subcooling? Wow thats overcharged even if its cold outside.
Donald Daniels I don't think anyone deburrs piping. I used to years ago. Filter dryers have a much larger pressure drop and don't effect performance. I stopped deburring because I been to enough jobs with pipes kinked and no performance loss that I could tell. Even a 1 psi loss on the liquid line requires that the line .be pinched nearly closed. Suction restrictions are more important for capacity. But r410a has double the pressure of r22. Carrier has some good tables for capacity loss on the suction side. The suction pipes can be really small and still have less than 1% loss. I wouldn't worry about less than 1% losses. But I can't see deburring even amounting to anything measurable. Bubbles on the liquid side are normal in most systems. You can hear them on the pipe. The manufactures don't want sight glasses because everybody was overcharging.
20 degree subcooling in heat mode is probably 0.5 lbs overcharge. I have never seen heat pumps not have higher subcooling on heat mode. This is because the tube volume of the evaporator is always smaller than the condenser.
You are right that my micron placement isn't optimal for leak checking. I just use microns to check my pump and hoses. I'm not really concerned with leaks while vacuuming. I use soap bubbles on all my joints at 50 psi. Electronic sniffers are 100x more sensitive than a vacuum test. If a system can't hold a vacuum, I would probably be back in 2 weeks anyway when the freon charge is gone. And that has never happened to me in 30 plus years. Or maybe once.
Deburing is for making flare joints other than that it contaminates the system with metal. Who pays for the extra time that won't make any difference in performance or life expectancy?
@@NathansHVAC I’m sorry Nathan, I disagree. Let’s say you put in a system that have a lot of fittings and joints. Are you saying that you would not de burr any of the ends? That just plain poor practice. We had a job at a library, that required a lot of hard piping and joints. The inspector saw the plumber not de burring the pipe, and made him cut the whole system apart and re do it. I’ll never forget that.
why so many leaks ? Corrosion / acid due to humidity in the System?
Evaporator copper is very thin. The entire industry as been switching to aluminum tubing to prevent formicary corrosion from the outside in. I have never heard of acid eating from the inside out even in automobiles. I guess it is possible. Maybe the oil breaks down before the acid reaches too high of a level. I will email an oil expert (phd) at national refrigerants and ask him.
All coils are coming rifled now. This thins the copper tubes. Used to be if you had a leak it would be at the welded “U” bends. Now you can get a leak any where.
Why are aluminum coils better than copper?
purity of the metal. Aluminum is refined with electrolysis. Copper gets impurities from recycle and the earth mines which create micro cracks in the walls.
How's staybrit8
How many filter dryers does that system has?
Normally just one. However, when the compressor is burnt and the oil stinks, it needs another filter on the compressor inlet.
@@NathansHVAC you need to flush system first
Is all this "acid stuff" a function of r410a?
Does this happen with r22?
its due to POE oil absorbing moisture and breaking down into acid and alcohol
@@lordjaashin
I.e. "excess acid" is another stupid thing we have to put up with with EPA-dictated r410a systems?
The Nonsense That is Ozone-Depletion
"Holes" in the ozone argument:
1) Freon is heavier than air: how do molecules heavier than air get to 30,000 feet (the beginning of the stratosphere)?
2) The "hole" in the ozone over the South Pole was "discovered" by satellites in the '80: if it was just "discovered", how do we know IT WASN'T THERE ALL ALONG ? ? ? ?
3) There is a perfectly logical reason why there is less ozone over the polar regions: THERE IS LESS SUNLIGHT THERE TO PRODUCE OZONE IN THE FIRST PLACE, especially in winter ("land of the midnight sun...")
4) Antarctica (South Pole) has the highest average elevation of any continent (8000 ft): Does that have any effect on ozone quantity????? (The North Pole is all at sea level and there is no ozone "hole" there. (Why not?)
5) The offending atom is CHLORINE (very common), not CFCs themselves. The argument goes that the CFCs carry CHLORINE up to the stratosphere. There are other compounds of chlorine in the atmosphere -- that's one of the things you smell when you go to the beach --> "salt water" --> i.e. sodium-chloride. Is the ocean a source of "ozone depleting" chlorine compounds?
6) Most basic of all, ozone (O3) is an EFFECT of UV blockage, not a cause. [O3 is an unstable molecule that needs a lot of energy to produce, e.g. the ozone you smell around arcing engines. There is less ozone at the poles b/c there is less UV to generate it (just like there is less sunlight to keep the place warm in the first place.
I hope the public is beginning to see how dubious this ozone scam is. Monstrous mistakes like this DO happen - think the ban on DDT and malaria deaths.
The Ozone Scam
th-cam.com/video/9Szs-treHwQ/w-d-xo.html
The Nonsense That is Ozone-Depletion
www.ourcivilisation.com/ozone/king.htm+
Look how we've been "had" by this "ozone depletion" scam:
In other words, CFCs probably have NOTHING to do with Antarctic ozone:
th-cam.com/video/lBu3vltczRw/w-d-xo.html
In other words, the× Montreal Protocol is a complete fraud:
Min 0:30: "Measurement of SURFACE 'ozone depleting substances' (chlorine? are you measuring ALL atmospheric chlorine compounds?).
th-cam.com/video/uVeTJSIbGm8/w-d-xo.html
1987 - Montreal Protocol. Remember that date in this music-tracked piece of manipulative propaganda.
Listen for the weasel words and disclaimers.
th-cam.com/video/Ll_TR7C4xr4/w-d-xo.html
Ozone hole is "healing" (scientific term). Can't you tell?:
th-cam.com/video/taTzqRHNIEc/w-d-xo.html
A discussion of atmospheric chlorine:
api.nationalgeographic.com/distribution/public/amp/news/2010/3/100310-sea-spray-ocean-colorado-pollution
Natural Chlorine? You Bet! (American Chemistry Counsel)
"Many of these chemicals are identical to highly publicized manmade organochlorines: chlorophenols, chlorinated hydrocarbons, PCBs, CFCs and dioxins."
chlorine.americanchemistry.com/Background-Natural-chlorine-You-bet-/
Min 2:00 Listen carefully: in other words, the ozone hole has been there since AT LEAST the 50s, before CFCs were widely used.
Min 15:00 "interesting scientifically" - must be fun to have these kinds of research grants and boondoggles. Great work if you can get it.
th-cam.com/video/AU0eNa4GrgU/w-d-xo.html
How EPA is screwing up your car's air conditioning.
th-cam.com/video/wm56tV5BbJk/w-d-xo.html
Lousy car air conditioning:
th-cam.com/video/5jKRiDtcBrs/w-d-xo.html
Guy says we should use explosive propane as refrigerant
th-cam.com/video/pv_fxOuLuZU/w-d-xo.html
.
Why The Banning Of Chlorofluorocarbons Is Paranoia
www.ourcivilisation.com/ozone/index.htm
Min 6:00 -- two different kinds of chlorine...
th-cam.com/video/kmfAM8kQrjU/w-d-xo.html
@@lordjaashin
Did you have to go through so many steps with r22 systems (mineral oil)?
@@hg2. THank you!!! Finally someone mentions this.
good for another 2 weeks.....tubes rubbing...quality? no.
Why don't you see burned out compressors in r410a units?
lower compression ratio creates lower discharge temperature creates less oil cooking and less acid creation. Also, better oil.
And, higher manditory seer ratings create lower discharge temperature because the condensers are bigger and run cooler.
Thanks,
You're saying POE oil is better than mineral oil for acid-formation?
I read something opposite to that for comparing r22 with r410a. ???
I thought R22 is less burn outs, as the R410 compressors are supposed to be under twice as high pressure. Also, I see plenty videos replacing those Copeland Scroll compressors.
You do not flush the system on a burn out ?
God bless
Wyr
I have tried all the flush solutions and they seem worthless to me. I have an alternate way of "degreasing" line sets using non flammable brake cleaner and then flushing with the equivalent of 70 bottles of nitrogen at 120 mph air flow thru the pipes for 30 minutes. However, even that method won't work on evaporator or condenser coils because the air flow is restricted by the metering device and distributor. A suction filter is much simpler for a burn out clean up. Good question though.
Remove the metering device then reconnect liquid line to evaporator , then use RX-11 in front of nitrogen , gets lineset real clean !
NathansHVAC hi!
Not sure if I'm correct 100% about this. I heard with break cleaner you cannot heat that up with a torch. If residue were to be left behind and you were to heat/braze the joints with an open flame a poison gas will happen as a result. Is this true? Thanks for the video.
The next time i have a stinky burnout , im gonna buy a Gallon of acetone and try that with 200 psi nitrogen behind it. Im gonna take a recovery cylinder , pull a vacuum on it , suck the acetone into it , then hook nitrogen regulator to it and whala Super flush oh maximus.
So I went to the website and it says that it's made from ref. oil? I guess it doesn't cause contamination.
Why fight your new filters inside the unit? Just install then on the outside..
A/C would be fine on the outside. However heat pump is bi directional flow. The suction filter has to be after the reversing valve.
There are no bi flow suction driers?
Nope. No bi-flow suction filters. You have to put it on the real suction line at the compressor when it is a heat pump.
We used to always just come back to remove the suction drier. I always remove the liquid drier from inside the unit to the outside also.
Why multiple evacuations?
Better purity. Each evacuation multiplies the purity of the previous vacuum. Using 3/8 hoses without valve cores means a 5 minute vacuum is just as deep as a 30 minute vacuum with 1/4 inch hoses.
@@NathansHVAC
Did you have to go through so many steps with r22 systems (mineral oil)?
What is the symptoms of a burntout compressor?
The refrigerant smells really bad. I'm evacuating one right now, but I only need it to last 1 more month until new systems are in stock. The oil is black. Of course they usually ground out. My rule is change the run cap and add a hard start kit. If the compressor is still locked rotor, stick a fork in it because it is done.
You could also check the terminals.
@@NathansHVAC ok thank you very much
Im a couple of months in in HVAC school.I understand the thermodynamics alright. And i understand the cooling process. But all these components. Im so fucking lost.
Residential is much simpler than commercial. And there is more money in residential. I always say it is not rocket science. Any career takes 10 years before it becomes boring. Then you get the occasional thrill like I got yesterday drilling a 2.5 inch hole thru 4 feet of granite for a minisplit.
So that mound of dust collected on coil stayed right ? while you finished the repair, those should have been washed squeaky clean sir. This is less than inspiring. 👎
The manufacturer of these leaky coils should be fined.
Actually, all the manufactures got hammered 2 ways. The "pure" copper market started getting recycled copper mixed in with new. Formicary corrosion from tighter home construction reacted with the copper and turned coils green.
Alot of measuring devices
How come you didn’t change the reversing valve or the expansion valve on the outdoor unit. It’s very good insurance whenever you change a compressor on a heat pump you should always change the reversing valve.
I'm not afraid of call backs. This isn't aviation. If the reversing valve starts sticking, I'll change it out. But, I can't see how a burnout can cause either device to stick? The smoke particles are too small. Also, the refrigerant pretty much washes everything clean in normal operation.
@@NathansHVAC not true. I made that mistake once. I cut the old reversing valve open and it was full of black crap. If it was a running burn, it will be contaminated. If it is a spot burn( we called clean and sweet), with no acid, odor and clean oil, you can get away without replacing it.
Rx11 flush is the way to go. Driers are so damn expensive and take a minimum of 2 hours to install
I really don't like Rx11 Flush. It is very expensive. When I flush I just use non-flamible brake cleaner and a high power industrial vacuum to pull the equivalant of 70 bottles of nitrogen (air) thru the pipes for 30 minutes. This evaporates all the de-greaser. I have a video of this that I will post. As far as I know, the only OEM approved cleanup procedure is a suction filter.
NathansHVAC who told you it's ok to use brake fluid. The manufacturer sure didn't. No telling what it might do to windings in comp. why not just put carb cleaner or something else you come up with to clean the lines( being sarcastic)👎🏻
R11 flush, blimey you guys in the states really dont like the ozone layer, that was banned in the uk about 25 years ago!!
@@darrencolby5689 Rx11 is a brand of system flush, different from R11 refrigerant. Ozone-depleting substances were phased out in the US around the same time as the UK IIRC.
@@NathansHVAC It might be safer to use MAF sensor cleaner.
I don't think you fixed the problem, you have a bad prussure switch. I would change both. Hi and low
The pressure switch will prevent the contactor from closing. This compressor was tripping the breaker instantly after the contactor closes. Pressure switches are 24V related. Only a short on the 230V side can trip the breaker.
I did have a chattering low pressure switch on a job 30 years ago. That was a bitch to trouble shoot. The contactor would chatter as the compressor started and stopped 4 times a second.
North americans are literally addicted to nylog 😂
LET ME GUESS, ALL THE PARTS AND UNIT WAS THROWN TOGEATHER IN CHINA.