I saw Shelton play last year in Atlanta. I believe it was his 1st ATP tournament. His kick serves were clearing the back wall and going into the stands. It was unbelievable.
I have never seen a serve clear the back fence. When I first learned tennis I asked the instructor if I can serve and make it bounce high over the returner's head. They all laughed and said that it was physically impossible. 🤔
@@Better_Call_Raul It was a small stadium fence though, maybe 6ft tall. Not a 12ft tall one. But still impressive to see the ball above the opponent’s head on every kick serve.
Yes Shelton reminds me very much of Roddick with the deep knee bend and very fast arm. My guess is - and Andy Roddick has said this as well - that kids grow up throwing in the US due to the 2 major sports there, baseball and American football. Whereas in other parts of the world kids grow up running and chasing a football.
I feel like baseball for tracking the ball and throwing action and football for footwork and lowerbody coordination are probably the best combination of sports for a young kid to play to develop the skills necessary to be a great tennis player.
@@quentincrisp6933well who are the biggest servers in the game in your opinion? Apart from Karlovic, Ivanisevic and Rusedski many are American (Isner, Opelka, Shelton, Roddick, Sampras). Serve speed depends on many factors - technique (which essentially means fluidity, effectiveness & coordination of all the little details and movements that make up a serve), mobility i.e. joint range of movement, leverage (long limbs), height (more downward trajectory), muscle fiber recruiting, accelerative power. the first three are biomechanical, the latter two neuromuscular factors. These latter two can be influenced through training (muscular) but are also formed at a very young age (neurological). Americans often excelled in those. Yes, Opelka and Isner also had the height and long limbs, but Roddick and Shelton in particular (and to a lesser degree Sampras, because he had immaculate technique and very good mobility) strike me as players that had these very fast, lively arms but were not necessarily gifted with many of the other factors. We're also seeing more big servers than we used to simply because we've come to understand all these factors and how to better influence them.
Everything about Ben Sheltons serve is extreme. The way he loads his body is insane and as you say, very frw players can pull off his serve technique let alone Rec players. But one area where I think he gains his explosive power is his extreme trophy position which is very similar to Andy Roddicks. His racket in his trophy position is pointing to the side fence where his legs fire and his torso explodes up. This gives him extra distance to explode the racket explosively and add on top of this the amount of power his body releases when his body unloads only adds to the power he can generate and is why he has such a fast arm because all of that energy releases his arm like a whip. I would say he has one of the most extreme serve techniques I have ever seen along with Sam Groths motion. It wouldn't surprise me if he hits a serve close to 160mph in a favourable and hot location such as Indian Wells or maybe indoors. And I think on his day he can beat anyone. NO ONE will want to play him in a slam as he's dangerous, young and fearless. Great analysis Nick.
Hes loading the racquet up with his butt to the net. Its weird looking but it works. But at the same time this awkward looking position was more comfortable or me to serve than the normal front way.
Many thanks to Nick for the analysis of the service. Very interesting in connection with the different anatomical structure and psychological characteristics of the players. P.S. To be honest, I would prefer your service. Very spectacular, accurate when you demonstrated on TH-cam.
Looks painful, then he inflicts that pain onto his opponents. I wish we had serve footage of Roscoe these days. Haven't seen him in decades. Couldn't believe he was averaging 120mph way back then in his games, with crappy wooden and aluminum racquets. Great analysis Nik. Cheers! M
True and Roscoe could hit in 140s when he went all out. He used that Head Pro racket. He only won one GS think Australia but came so close to beating Borg at Wimbledon. I watched it when I was a kid and still remember him missing that easy FH sitter. Turned the match similar to this year's Wimbledon when Djokovic blew the easy high FH floater at the net.
@@willkittwk I had a good friend watch a game where he hit over 150. I think 153 to be exact. He was really good and I always loved his super short toss. Great that you remember that...what a great memory you have. Thanks for your comment! :)
@@-Munditimum- 153mph with a wooden racket?? That's insane, he would have hit 170 with today's rackets. Did they measure speed during matches at that time?
Thanks for doing the focus on crazy serves because I added more hip movement into my serve and it added noticeable extra power for little extra effort. Good tip!
Service technique minutiae aside the big thing to pay attention to is that Shelton is a athletic 6’4”. I’d be willing to bet a significant amount of money that if a shrink ray existed and you could make him 5’9” the height of the average American male, you’d find that his service speed and percentage would drop significantly. Taller athletes gain tremendous advantages with the longer levers and higher contact points that come with way above average height. Frankly you should make a video on a pro player 6’4” or taller who can’t consistently top 120 mph on the serve and analyze why that is. I’d rather have the slower Sampras serve and serve a higher percentage and be more accurate serving.
I just tried this service motion, and I will let you know how it worked out for me, after I get back from the Chiropractor. Hahe Ben has a wicked serve, and it’s amazing to watch. Great job on trying to duplicate it my friend.
Balls are somewhat heavier these days but on the other hand, serve speeds are measured differently. In Ivanisevic's time, the speed was measured as the ball approached the net and had already lost some pace, nowadays they measure the initial launch speed directly from behind the server. I don't have a scientific formula for measuring the speed difference between the two methods, but in general serve speed averages seemed to jump up by a good 5 - 8 mph when the new radars/method came about in the early 2000s.
@@hehehehehahahaha2025 thx for clarifying, i did not know that. Makes sense to measure the exit velocity as the in-air drag depends on a number of factors such as humidity and altitude..
Was Roddick's loading position also quite unorthodox? He shortens his swing compared to the other pros and also didn't bend backwards much. What about Wawrinka, Copil or Raonic's loading position, are they also unorthodox? And what's the max speed you have ever served? Thank you.
Great analysis. I think it looks like JJ Wolf's serve. Lots of torque. That back foot forward turning the knee out gives him added torque when he pushes off.
I don't understand why every platform server does not put their hip out like Sampras and Federer. I imagine there is a stool just in front of the baseline and I am going to "sit" on that stool. Do this and the hip will naturally stick out. It is a very natural position. It does not have to be extreme like Sampras. Do what is comfortable. But it definitely adds power to the serve. 🎾
Isner at his peak had the best serve, Federer etc agreed on that. Roddick's was hard, but easily returnable by Fed as he had trouble finding the lines. Sampras was a master at that although hitting much slower.
Lefthanded Roddick, with some slight technical differences that I'm not really qualified to judge. But both guys seemed to focus on what I see as a straight down and up explosion, which seems to be the best way to produce maximum velocity on a serve. I tend to think it's also slightly easier for the very best guys to simply block that back, even if it's at 135-140 (Federer vs Roddick). The 125 explosiveness of a Sampras or Federer often seems more dominant. because it seems more versatile, I remember watching Sam Groth play Roger Federer at Wimbledon in 2015. Groth could hit the ball through a wall and won his fair share of points by just pounding a 140 MPH+ serve, But it was so obvious that Federer had a better serve. Federer could just toy with Groth by making Groth (try to, and generally fail) return balls that were spinning in and hitting lines.
Apparently Roddick was averaging similar RPM with his serve (130mph & 2400 RPM) as was Sampras (118mph & 2500 RPM), so on paper it should have been plenty explosive But I agree with you, Sampras' serve IMHO was more effective, reliable and seemed effortless.
I am _so_ wanting Shelton to take Tiafoe out today and see how well his serve goes against Djokovic in the semi-final, who is arguably the best returner in tennis history.
I think the coil is misunderstood (somewhat). The way I look at the coil has more to do with lat involvement, example, Ben’s extension on the front side is extreme as well as the shortening on the backside, this is because his coil is deep, lateral extension frontside coupled with flexion on the backside, this aids the arm’s whip upon uncoiling, leg (hip) drive, and the shoulder-over-shoulder maneuver.
I have actually seen coaches teach this at the junior levels where the "celebration" isn't really for the screw up of the opponent but more so for the player's efforts overall that results into an error from the opponent one way or the other. I don't agree with this philosophy since I'm old school where we would internally boost our morals without even any fist pumping. if you think it's unsportsmanlike and it's questionable conduct, I would agree with you for sure, but then again, I'm old school. Cheers. M
😂😂😂😂😂.... I can't believe you actually had the cam zero in on yo blue hutt. You are now officially the wildest man ever. I think Ben is actually telling people to 'take this and kizz his donkey'. This is totally wild. Only supercoach Nick would notice. I bet you nobody has ever served like this. The only person that could probably pull it off is Serena, because the real estate is already over the line.😮 His father Bryan probably had him serving from a chair. Bryan is from the city I live in now. l think I met him back in the 80s as a college student, when a really good player brought him on campus and I read later he almost beat Ivan Lendel. With my big ole hot pot, brittle bones, jacked up mustles and age; my hot pot would snap loose from my back and bounce across the court. Lewd ha mercy.😱
@@JameSongMaker I was thinking about Rodney Harmon another prominent African-American tennis player-coach. Thanks for asking the question, I need to change this.
@@IntuitiveTennis interesting. You have connects all over the place. Hasn't your coach been on your channel? I am originally a Virginia dude, and moved to DC when I was five. Rodney is a little younger raised in Richmond and influenced by Arthur Ashe also from Richmond. Ashe would come up to DC and conduct clinics. Unfortunately I never attended because tennis was considered a sissy sport in basketball hotbed DC. Didn't start playing tennis until I was about 18-19 when I joined a worldwide Church and a lot of them were playing tennis. Rodney, Bryan, Zina and Lori were considered the heirs to Arthur & Althea. I somewhat remember Rodney and another person winning a tournament in college. Didn't really hear about Mel until he turned pro and didn't know a lot about him.
My serve is very similar to Ivanišević, I was having problems with the tos because my rhythm did not match my task whatsoever and I would end up having deposit the trophy face, I tried to slow it down but it just made my serve a lot worse, And then I found a video compilation of Ivanišević serve, and I put it in slow motion and I realize how similar our servers emotion was, and what I noticed was he tossed the ball lower so that’s what I ended doing it now my serve works a lot better now. Still nowhere near as good as his serve and it never will be😂.
Great breakdown. I think you said the magic words ....fast arm action. If you don't have that which is partially God given you're not going to have a powerful serve no matter how you tweak it.
Thank you so much for the explaination. I think I've got how it works, actually he just utilized The Law Of Conservation Of Angular Momentum. See the body as a pole, the core is the rotation center, the butt and the shoulder are the two ends of the pole. He put his butt into the court and the shoulder outside the court, then deep bend the knees to generate force driven his butt rotate outside the court, as a result of The Law Of Conservation Of Angular Momentum, the other end of the pole his shoulder will get the same momentum but in opposite direction which is towards the court. I can see his feet is pointing outside the court helping him to put his butt inside. The more weight he put on his butt the faster his shoulder can turn and take his arm swing faster. I think this method requires a certain level of core strength, the more stiff you can make your body the more momentum can be transfered from your butt to your shoulder and arm. The only bad thing I can see is when he release the force from his leg it requires a strong force to push the butt outside the court, knees may take some extra burden because that force is not the same direction as the natrual movement of the knees. It is really inspiring, I'm going to have a try just don't do it too extreme and maybe I can find a comfort way to put my feet and bend the knees.
Are you sure it’s angular momentum? The moment of inertia doesn’t seem to decrease significantly enough to allow a large change in angular velocity. Either way, I don’t see how momentum can be transferred from one side of an object to another side of the same object, as everything is belonging to the same system.
I see that he throws his butt inside the court as part of his leaning forward phase. It's very hard to replicate this because you need to have the timing and be at ease with this momentum. It's at the end of that phase that he "explodes" to uncoil his body and jump into the ball. Very impressive athletics because my knees would probably tear the meniscus if I ever tried to do this uncorking motion so violently. I would not teach this to anyone because he probably developed this motion naturally as a youngster and his body has "perfected" the optimal way of putting power into the ball but my oh my, this motion screams injury. 😱
America has so many big servers, Pete Sampras, Andy Roddick, John Isner, Riley Opelka, Taylor Dent, Ben Shelton, Rosescore Tanner, Marty fish, and Sam Querrey.
would love to see a part 2 on the video u made about american tennis and its downfall, considering there’s two american players on the uso semis (shelton, gauff)
Part 1 th-cam.com/video/dUPJyetq21c/w-d-xo.htmlsi=TZjaz-8cEecBwsPL Part 2 th-cam.com/video/4s87FtfYFEw/w-d-xo.htmlsi=2SedTuXELmRv1ten Part 3 th-cam.com/video/Q1oC4EPOVpI/w-d-xo.htmlsi=VlTsVAq2ZNRVtJ-c
I think J.J. Wolf has a very similar serve motion, still not as good as Shelton's but still pretty effective already, probably even better with slices.
Have always thought the amount of knee bend is determined by how much forward bow of the lower body into the court. Basically you should never think about consciously bending the knees.
Love this video… some ideas for a video can you explain to me the difference between, for example medvedevs wrist position and say alcaraz’s in the pre serve ready position ? Medvedev seems to be in wrist flexion and alacaraz wrist is more neutral ? I tried it and I can get some extra pronation (at least it seems that way) with the Medvedev style Also how does one go about taking full advantage of having a good serve ? I have a good serve for me level but feel like I don’t maximise the benifit of that. Great vids as usual
I agree with you, not a technique to copy, but it is a tremendous serve as you say. To me, the best lefty serve since Wayne Arthurs. Sheldon as you say has that scary fast twitch action, like Roddick and Kyrgios. I agree with you about he is already there as one of the greatest American servers ever. I would put Isner and Opelka ahead of him just because they are giants, but Sheldon's as a lefty seems even more lethal than Roddick and Sampras. He not only can hit 150, but he has tremendous action on the ball, kicking and slicing to all corners of the service box. Chris Eubanks was doing commentary on the Sheldon Paul match, and early in the match was praising the Sheldon serve as one of the best on tour. Chris said he can hit a 1st serve at 150, or an 85mph massive spin serve. Chris said that kind of variety is obviously very difficult to deal with.
From a technical POV I'd easily put Shelton ahead of Opelka whose height is what seems to be really doing the heavy lifting. IMHO too early to put him above Roddick and Sampras though. On a sidenote.... you rank Wayne Arthurs above Ivanisevic when it comes to leftie servers?
@hehehehehahahaha2025 I do rate Arthurs ahead of Goran technique wise, but we will never know their speed and spin numbers. One thing is quantitative though, John Yandell did report quantitative numbers on Roddick and Sampras. Roddick not only did hit higher mph's on his serve than Sampras, his kick serve had more rpm's than Sampras' did.
@@themrstroke yeah, based on some sample size, Roddick averaged 130mph with 2400 RPM vs Sampras' average of 118mph with 2500 RPM. But interestingly enough I also read an article by John Yandell where he compared Federer's ability to neutralize Roddick's serve to how much more he seemed to struggle returning an old, retired Sampras' serve. They were at exhibitions, sure, but his opinion was seemingly that Sampras was hitting harder-to-return serves than Roddick. I don't know if I agree but I do think Sampras' serve was more reliable and effortless.
@hehehehehahahaha2025 clearly you know a lot about tennis. All these guys have tremendous serves, some of the best ever. Regarding the Sampras exhibition matches, those were played on an unusually fast surface, per Sampras request, as he was past his prime and Fed certainly did not care. It was just exhibition tennis, and a nice paycheck. As far as rpm's, the piece I read by John Yandell reported on their heaviest kick serves, Roddick did have more rpm's.
If we compare roddick to Ben Sheltons legs in the loading position he bends the hips similarly. Isn’t that a special kind of torso separation not many people employ?
I think the butt in is not intentional. It’s just a result of the hips going in, in conjunction with a coil at the hip. His coil is from foot to hip, and not much from hip to shoulder. So hip in plus corkscrew coil on lower half of body. A heavy vertical loading also makes the butt stick out. Plus he has a big butt. 😅
It is useless. for people to copy another's playing style , if it does not fit their bodies morphology . When you follow your own morphology , you will optimize your comfort and performance .
I feel like the complexity, difficulty, too much advantage, and too much importance of the tennis serve results in a big obstacle to beginner/novice advancement in tennis. This might be why Pickleball (with its easy underhand serve) is taking over in popularity, since you can start playing Pickleball in mere minutes. You could go a lifetime and never develop a competitive 100 mph tennis serve.
Funny to watch, when an old guy trying to imitate a young professional on its peak flexibility and peak power 🙂 Welcome to the club of old men, Nick, physical limitation rise with every year in the 40´s... A great server is a server, who servs well under pressure... That is why Becker, Sampras or even Djokovic have been this successfull and not Serve-Bots like Isner, Carlovics or other ones... ;-) And the best server even serve the second one with good kicks or speed. For this reason, they always beat even an Isner in Tiebreaks, besides they have been top-returners. If you can chose between a perfect server or a perfect returner, it is always the returner who wins the match ! ;-)
Isner and Karlović are definitely some of the best servers. Their serve game win %'s are second to nobody and they definitely have monster kicks. Isner for example can kick serve balls over peoples head and at the speed of some peoples flat serves.
Enough of this BS. Every person has its own unique biomechanics and it doesn't mean Shelton can do it, you can. You just demonstrated that you can't even do it you should not try to teach it that may cause injury to some unsuspecting viewer.
Sabalenka Serve Flaw
👉 th-cam.com/video/209ut9L9ZqI/w-d-xo.htmlsi=VFZk6Am1lSQ2O5it
I saw Shelton play last year in Atlanta. I believe it was his 1st ATP tournament. His kick serves were clearing the back wall and going into the stands. It was unbelievable.
Unbelievable
I have never seen a serve clear the back fence. When I first learned tennis I asked the instructor if I can serve and make it bounce high over the returner's head. They all laughed and said that it was physically impossible. 🤔
I would love to see the numbers rpm wise on his kick serve.
@@Better_Call_Raul It was a small stadium fence though, maybe 6ft tall. Not a 12ft tall one. But still impressive to see the ball above the opponent’s head on every kick serve.
Here is one proof his kick serve is wicked. Bounced beyond Evans. th-cam.com/video/VuP46vGBHMA/w-d-xo.htmlsi=ooj7VHSzYObMs3nd
Yes Shelton reminds me very much of Roddick with the deep knee bend and very fast arm. My guess is - and Andy Roddick has said this as well - that kids grow up throwing in the US due to the 2 major sports there, baseball and American football. Whereas in other parts of the world kids grow up running and chasing a football.
I feel like baseball for tracking the ball and throwing action and football for footwork and lowerbody coordination are probably the best combination of sports for a young kid to play to develop the skills necessary to be a great tennis player.
@@bonzwah1I think cricket is the best sport because you learn to throw naturally in cricket. And your also learn how to track and hit a ball.
@@quentincrisp6933well who are the biggest servers in the game in your opinion? Apart from Karlovic, Ivanisevic and Rusedski many are American (Isner, Opelka, Shelton, Roddick, Sampras). Serve speed depends on many factors - technique (which essentially means fluidity, effectiveness & coordination of all the little details and movements that make up a serve), mobility i.e. joint range of movement, leverage (long limbs), height (more downward trajectory), muscle fiber recruiting, accelerative power. the first three are biomechanical, the latter two neuromuscular factors. These latter two can be influenced through training (muscular) but are also formed at a very young age (neurological). Americans often excelled in those. Yes, Opelka and Isner also had the height and long limbs, but Roddick and Shelton in particular (and to a lesser degree Sampras, because he had immaculate technique and very good mobility) strike me as players that had these very fast, lively arms but were not necessarily gifted with many of the other factors. We're also seeing more big servers than we used to simply because we've come to understand all these factors and how to better influence them.
@@quentincrisp6933to be fair 58% of ATP tennis players are from Europe alone.
Shelton was a football player as a kid, so this might be true.
Everything about Ben Sheltons serve is extreme. The way he loads his body is insane and as you say, very frw players can pull off his serve technique let alone Rec players.
But one area where I think he gains his explosive power is his extreme trophy position which is very similar to Andy Roddicks.
His racket in his trophy position is pointing to the side fence where his legs fire and his torso explodes up. This gives him extra distance to explode the racket explosively and add on top of this the amount of power his body releases when his body unloads only adds to the power he can generate and is why he has such a fast arm because all of that energy releases his arm like a whip.
I would say he has one of the most extreme serve techniques I have ever seen along with Sam Groths motion.
It wouldn't surprise me if he hits a serve close to 160mph in a favourable and hot location such as Indian Wells or maybe indoors.
And I think on his day he can beat anyone. NO ONE will want to play him in a slam as he's dangerous, young and fearless.
Great analysis Nick.
Hes loading the racquet up with his butt to the net. Its weird looking but it works. But at the same time this awkward looking position
was more comfortable or me to serve than the normal front way.
Great timing on making this video. Really appreciate the efforts you have gone to showing the physicality of the serve. Thanks
💯
Many thanks to Nick for the analysis of the service.
Very interesting in connection with the different anatomical structure and psychological characteristics of the players.
P.S. To be honest, I would prefer your service.
Very spectacular, accurate when you demonstrated on TH-cam.
Thank you Nick for your interesting and deep analysis
My pleasure!
Looks painful, then he inflicts that pain onto his opponents.
I wish we had serve footage of Roscoe these days. Haven't seen him in decades. Couldn't believe he was averaging 120mph way back then in his games, with crappy wooden and aluminum racquets.
Great analysis Nik.
Cheers!
M
💯
True and Roscoe could hit in 140s when he went all out. He used that Head Pro racket. He only won one GS think Australia but came so close to beating Borg at Wimbledon. I watched it when I was a kid and still remember him missing that easy FH sitter. Turned the match similar to this year's Wimbledon when Djokovic blew the easy high FH floater at the net.
@@willkittwk I had a good friend watch a game where he hit over 150. I think 153 to be exact. He was really good and I always loved his super short toss. Great that you remember that...what a great memory you have. Thanks for your comment! :)
@@-Munditimum- 153mph with a wooden racket?? That's insane, he would have hit 170 with today's rackets. Did they measure speed during matches at that time?
I know, it's crazy. Yea, they measured speeds back then during matches. The 153 was in 1979, if my memory serves me correctly@@astonm.8173
Thanks for doing the focus on crazy serves because I added more hip movement into my serve and it added noticeable extra power for little extra effort. Good tip!
Careful Nik. Hip replacements are expensive in the US. 😄 Thanks for video. Shelton does have a monster serve.👍
So it’s a caked up serve all along!
Service technique minutiae aside the big thing to pay attention to is that Shelton is a athletic 6’4”. I’d be willing to bet a significant amount of money that if a shrink ray existed and you could make him 5’9” the height of the average American male, you’d find that his service speed and percentage would drop significantly. Taller athletes gain tremendous advantages with the longer levers and higher contact points that come with way above average height. Frankly you should make a video on a pro player 6’4” or taller who can’t consistently top 120 mph on the serve and analyze why that is. I’d rather have the slower Sampras serve and serve a higher percentage and be more accurate serving.
I just tried this service motion, and I will let you know how it worked out for me, after I get back from the Chiropractor. Hahe Ben has a wicked serve, and it’s amazing to watch. Great job on trying to duplicate it my friend.
He also serves at that speed with slower balls than Rusedski, Ivanisevic etc, right?
Balls are somewhat heavier these days but on the other hand, serve speeds are measured differently. In Ivanisevic's time, the speed was measured as the ball approached the net and had already lost some pace, nowadays they measure the initial launch speed directly from behind the server.
I don't have a scientific formula for measuring the speed difference between the two methods, but in general serve speed averages seemed to jump up by a good 5 - 8 mph when the new radars/method came about in the early 2000s.
@@hehehehehahahaha2025 thx for clarifying, i did not know that. Makes sense to measure the exit velocity as the in-air drag depends on a number of factors such as humidity and altitude..
Balls are 100% slower now compared to 90’s
Was Roddick's loading position also quite unorthodox? He shortens his swing compared to the other pros and also didn't bend backwards much. What about Wawrinka, Copil or Raonic's loading position, are they also unorthodox? And what's the max speed you have ever served? Thank you.
Tommy Paul is underated server as well, I was shocked when he upped his velocity to the 130s this year. Must be that new yonnex racket lol
Very good serve, loads like Sampras 💯
Very timely prediction
Great analysis. I think it looks like JJ Wolf's serve. Lots of torque. That back foot forward turning the knee out gives him added torque when he pushes off.
The Power of the Butt Serve cannot be Denied! He's not only sitting in a chair, but the chair is inside the court!
I don't understand why every platform server does not put their hip out like Sampras and Federer.
I imagine there is a stool just in front of the baseline and I am going to "sit" on that stool. Do this and the hip will naturally stick out. It is a very natural position. It does not have to be extreme like Sampras. Do what is comfortable. But it definitely adds power to the serve. 🎾
Isner at his peak had the best serve, Federer etc agreed on that. Roddick's was hard, but easily returnable by Fed as he had trouble finding the lines. Sampras was a master at that although hitting much slower.
Nick, my only question is: are you ok after doing this video?? 😂😂
I’m good 😂💯
Lefthanded Roddick, with some slight technical differences that I'm not really qualified to judge. But both guys seemed to focus on what I see as a straight down and up explosion, which seems to be the best way to produce maximum velocity on a serve. I tend to think it's also slightly easier for the very best guys to simply block that back, even if it's at 135-140 (Federer vs Roddick). The 125 explosiveness of a Sampras or Federer often seems more dominant. because it seems more versatile,
I remember watching Sam Groth play Roger Federer at Wimbledon in 2015. Groth could hit the ball through a wall and won his fair share of points by just pounding a 140 MPH+ serve, But it was so obvious that Federer had a better serve. Federer could just toy with Groth by making Groth (try to, and generally fail) return balls that were spinning in and hitting lines.
Apparently Roddick was averaging similar RPM with his serve (130mph & 2400 RPM) as was Sampras (118mph & 2500 RPM), so on paper it should have been plenty explosive
But I agree with you, Sampras' serve IMHO was more effective, reliable and seemed effortless.
Not even one minute in and I am pretty sure the answer to the question whether you should be copying this at the recreational level is "No".
I am _so_ wanting Shelton to take Tiafoe out today and see how well his serve goes against Djokovic in the semi-final, who is arguably the best returner in tennis history.
Well that comment aged _really_ well.
😂
I saw Shelton serve against Alcaraz in Toronto. He hit one 233 kms/145 mph. Haha, sounds different.
I think the coil is misunderstood (somewhat). The way I look at the coil has more to do with lat involvement, example, Ben’s extension on the front side is extreme as well as the shortening on the backside, this is because his coil is deep, lateral extension frontside coupled with flexion on the backside, this aids the arm’s whip upon uncoiling, leg (hip) drive, and the shoulder-over-shoulder maneuver.
Hey intuitive tennis, what are your thoughts on Shelton celebrating (screaming) after his opponent makes a mistake?
I have actually seen coaches teach this at the junior levels where the "celebration" isn't really for the screw up of the opponent but more so for the player's efforts overall that results into an error from the opponent one way or the other.
I don't agree with this philosophy since I'm old school where we would internally boost our morals without even any fist pumping.
if you think it's unsportsmanlike and it's questionable conduct, I would agree with you for sure, but then again, I'm old school.
Cheers.
M
It’s really annoying and needs to go.
At 5:05 the whole serve secret is revealed concisely
Nick: reverses his footage in order to see it from Shelton's perspective.
Me: Reverses the footage to see it from a righty perspective
😂😂😂😂😂.... I can't believe you actually had the cam zero in on yo blue hutt. You are now officially the wildest man ever. I think Ben is actually telling people to 'take this and kizz his donkey'. This is totally wild. Only supercoach Nick would notice. I bet you nobody has ever served like this. The only person that could probably pull it off is Serena, because the real estate is already over the line.😮 His father Bryan probably had him serving from a chair. Bryan is from the city I live in now. l think I met him back in the 80s as a college student, when a really good player brought him on campus and I read later he almost beat Ivan Lendel. With my big ole hot pot, brittle bones, jacked up mustles and age; my hot pot would snap loose from my back and bounce across the court. Lewd ha mercy.😱
…who’s Rodney?
@@JameSongMaker I was thinking about Rodney Harmon another prominent African-American tennis player-coach. Thanks for asking the question, I need to change this.
Rodney won NCAA doubles with my coach Mel Purcell
@@IntuitiveTennis interesting. You have connects all over the place. Hasn't your coach been on your channel? I am originally a Virginia dude, and moved to DC when I was five. Rodney is a little younger raised in Richmond and influenced by Arthur Ashe also from Richmond. Ashe would come up to DC and conduct clinics. Unfortunately I never attended because tennis was considered a sissy sport in basketball hotbed DC. Didn't start playing tennis until I was about 18-19 when I joined a worldwide Church and a lot of them were playing tennis. Rodney, Bryan, Zina and Lori were considered the heirs to Arthur & Althea. I somewhat remember Rodney and another person winning a tournament in college. Didn't really hear about Mel until he turned pro and didn't know a lot about him.
Almost thought you were incredible with the left hand until I realized the video was reversed at that moment 😀
I’m very bad lefty 😂 th-cam.com/video/0TRYiRXtGVY/w-d-xo.htmlsi=o41TG9iJ3o8UHyJY
FYI. Your initial picture for this video says “249mph.” Might want to make a quick change.
🙏💯
I saw that this morning while scrolling and was wondering if I was tripping or something
My serve is very similar to Ivanišević, I was having problems with the tos because my rhythm did not match my task whatsoever and I would end up having deposit the trophy face, I tried to slow it down but it just made my serve a lot worse, And then I found a video compilation of Ivanišević serve, and I put it in slow motion and I realize how similar our servers emotion was, and what I noticed was he tossed the ball lower so that’s what I ended doing it now my serve works a lot better now. Still nowhere near as good as his serve and it never will be😂.
Great breakdown. I think you said the magic words ....fast arm action. If you don't have that which is partially God given you're not going to have a powerful serve no matter how you tweak it.
Thank you so much for the explaination. I think I've got how it works, actually he just utilized The Law Of Conservation Of Angular Momentum. See the body as a pole, the core is the rotation center, the butt and the shoulder are the two ends of the pole. He put his butt into the court and the shoulder outside the court, then deep bend the knees to generate force driven his butt rotate outside the court, as a result of The Law Of Conservation Of Angular Momentum, the other end of the pole his shoulder will get the same momentum but in opposite direction which is towards the court. I can see his feet is pointing outside the court helping him to put his butt inside. The more weight he put on his butt the faster his shoulder can turn and take his arm swing faster. I think this method requires a certain level of core strength, the more stiff you can make your body the more momentum can be transfered from your butt to your shoulder and arm. The only bad thing I can see is when he release the force from his leg it requires a strong force to push the butt outside the court, knees may take some extra burden because that force is not the same direction as the natrual movement of the knees. It is really inspiring, I'm going to have a try just don't do it too extreme and maybe I can find a comfort way to put my feet and bend the knees.
Are you sure it’s angular momentum? The moment of inertia doesn’t seem to decrease significantly enough to allow a large change in angular velocity. Either way, I don’t see how momentum can be transferred from one side of an object to another side of the same object, as everything is belonging to the same system.
I see that he throws his butt inside the court as part of his leaning forward phase. It's very hard to replicate this because you need to have the timing and be at ease with this momentum. It's at the end of that phase that he "explodes" to uncoil his body and jump into the ball. Very impressive athletics because my knees would probably tear the meniscus if I ever tried to do this uncorking motion so violently. I would not teach this to anyone because he probably developed this motion naturally as a youngster and his body has "perfected" the optimal way of putting power into the ball but my oh my, this motion screams injury. 😱
You forgot the points his knees and feet backwards perhaps 20-40 degrees backwards just before he goes up.
America has so many big servers, Pete Sampras, Andy Roddick, John Isner, Riley Opelka, Taylor Dent, Ben Shelton, Rosescore Tanner, Marty fish, and Sam Querrey.
would love to see a part 2 on the video u made about american tennis and its downfall, considering there’s two american players on the uso semis (shelton, gauff)
Part 1 th-cam.com/video/dUPJyetq21c/w-d-xo.htmlsi=TZjaz-8cEecBwsPL
Part 2 th-cam.com/video/4s87FtfYFEw/w-d-xo.htmlsi=2SedTuXELmRv1ten
Part 3 th-cam.com/video/Q1oC4EPOVpI/w-d-xo.htmlsi=VlTsVAq2ZNRVtJ-c
Did you execute Bens service motion left-handed? 👍 nice.
Does anyone know what racquet Intuitive Tennis uses? I thought he used a Pure Drive.
Shelton actually looks like young Sampras on some photographs ))) super interesting to see the things to come
Best serve to imitate as a 5’9” male? Diego or Ash Barty or McKenzie McDonald?
McDonald has a great motion and it’s really smooth. I like Barty’s too, but it’s a little more mechanical.
Hope you didnt injure yourself doing the Shelton serve! Very uncomfortable looking!
Haha I did not
I think J.J. Wolf has a very similar serve motion, still not as good as Shelton's but still pretty effective already, probably even better with slices.
Have always thought the amount of knee bend is determined by how much forward bow of the lower body into the court. Basically you should never think about consciously bending the knees.
I was thinking of Shapo as a server with his butt inside the court / “facing” returner but not as much as Shelton.
now let's talk about Ben Shelton's match kit
Nick, you have a correct expectation on Ben. He just defeated Tiafoe to go to semi. Could the US Open final this year be Shelton vs Medvedev ? 😂
Haha anything is possible but I’m sticking with these predictions th-cam.com/video/eYZq4zZKeOI/w-d-xo.htmlsi=EXIMe3RC7njjQ598
Love this video… some ideas for a video can you explain to me the difference between, for example medvedevs wrist position and say alcaraz’s in the pre serve ready position ? Medvedev seems to be in wrist flexion and alacaraz wrist is more neutral ?
I tried it and I can get some extra pronation (at least it seems that way) with the Medvedev style
Also how does one go about taking full advantage of having a good serve ? I have a good serve for me level but feel like I don’t maximise the benifit of that. Great vids as usual
I talk about wrist flexion here th-cam.com/video/QlvtDvL9Py8/w-d-xo.htmlsi=suyW_MFngrg7MHTa
Thank Will check it out. ;) @@IntuitiveTennis
I agree with you, not a technique to copy, but it is a tremendous serve as you say. To me, the best lefty serve since Wayne Arthurs. Sheldon as you say has that scary fast twitch action, like Roddick and Kyrgios. I agree with you about he is already there as one of the greatest American servers ever. I would put Isner and Opelka ahead of him just because they are giants, but Sheldon's as a lefty seems even more lethal than Roddick and Sampras. He not only can hit 150, but he has tremendous action on the ball, kicking and slicing to all corners of the service box. Chris Eubanks was doing commentary on the Sheldon Paul match, and early in the match was praising the Sheldon serve as one of the best on tour. Chris said he can hit a 1st serve at 150, or an 85mph massive spin serve. Chris said that kind of variety is obviously very difficult to deal with.
From a technical POV I'd easily put Shelton ahead of Opelka whose height is what seems to be really doing the heavy lifting. IMHO too early to put him above Roddick and Sampras though.
On a sidenote.... you rank Wayne Arthurs above Ivanisevic when it comes to leftie servers?
@hehehehehahahaha2025 I do rate Arthurs ahead of Goran technique wise, but we will never know their speed and spin numbers. One thing is quantitative though, John Yandell did report quantitative numbers on Roddick and Sampras. Roddick not only did hit higher mph's on his serve than Sampras, his kick serve had more rpm's than Sampras' did.
@@themrstroke yeah, based on some sample size, Roddick averaged 130mph with 2400 RPM vs Sampras' average of 118mph with 2500 RPM. But interestingly enough I also read an article by John Yandell where he compared Federer's ability to neutralize Roddick's serve to how much more he seemed to struggle returning an old, retired Sampras' serve. They were at exhibitions, sure, but his opinion was seemingly that Sampras was hitting harder-to-return serves than Roddick. I don't know if I agree but I do think Sampras' serve was more reliable and effortless.
@hehehehehahahaha2025 clearly you know a lot about tennis. All these guys have tremendous serves, some of the best ever. Regarding the Sampras exhibition matches, those were played on an unusually fast surface, per Sampras request, as he was past his prime and Fed certainly did not care. It was just exhibition tennis, and a nice paycheck. As far as rpm's, the piece I read by John Yandell reported on their heaviest kick serves, Roddick did have more rpm's.
If we compare roddick to Ben Sheltons legs in the loading position he bends the hips similarly. Isn’t that a special kind of torso separation not many people employ?
Roddick does not turn his hips backwards
@@IntuitiveTennis oh, you’re right! Guess I just had it wrong in my head
🥇🎾
🙏🔥💯
Classic hip dip? Nah. BUTT DIP! 😂
🙏
Nick do you miss clay courts? It seems like in US you have mostly hardcourts
I miss the red Clay 😭
I think the butt in is not intentional. It’s just a result of the hips going in, in conjunction with a coil at the hip. His coil is from foot to hip, and not much from hip to shoulder. So hip in plus corkscrew coil on lower half of body. A heavy vertical loading also makes the butt stick out. Plus he has a big butt. 😅
How many times did Djokovic break his serve?
Maria Sharapova actually serve like that in a lesser extreme. Her butt and hip loaded into the court.
She does not, she is loaded sideways with hip forward
th-cam.com/video/m4wt5jmpk3U/w-d-xo.htmlsi=gHH5yzaxYXDPiQHS
Ben within two years will be US #1 and a top 5 player.
this is core details.
It is useless. for people to copy another's playing style , if it does not fit their bodies morphology . When you follow your own morphology , you will optimize your comfort and performance .
His feets are almost pointing at the back corner on the loading phase...
The way he tosses is a bit difficult..
This video can be summarized in one word, say with me: butt 😂
He coils his hips bro not pushing the hip into the court
I feel like the complexity, difficulty, too much advantage, and too much importance of the tennis serve results in a big obstacle to beginner/novice advancement in tennis. This might be why Pickleball (with its easy underhand serve) is taking over in popularity, since you can start playing Pickleball in mere minutes. You could go a lifetime and never develop a competitive 100 mph tennis serve.
Most people can’t serve that fast, even at the high rec level, and that’s perfectly fine. You don’t need a massive serve to win matches
I spent a lot of time analysing guys, secret is in the butt tilt :D
Hilarious editing lol
I found my Roddickvserve in 1987 in college. After practice dead tired. Abbreviated and wow peopke thought I was doing it forever. Nope
Point your butt at the opponent. Got it.
Funny to watch, when an old guy trying to imitate a young professional on its peak flexibility and peak power 🙂 Welcome to the club of old men, Nick, physical limitation rise with every year in the 40´s... A great server is a server, who servs well under pressure... That is why Becker, Sampras or even Djokovic have been this successfull and not Serve-Bots like Isner, Carlovics or other ones... ;-) And the best server even serve the second one with good kicks or speed. For this reason, they always beat even an Isner in Tiebreaks, besides they have been top-returners. If you can chose between a perfect server or a perfect returner, it is always the returner who wins the match ! ;-)
Isner and Karlović are definitely some of the best servers. Their serve game win %'s are second to nobody and they definitely have monster kicks. Isner for example can kick serve balls over peoples head and at the speed of some peoples flat serves.
'Huge monstrous'? Nick thats not English mate, apart from that great video as always !
Haha touché
my knees will probably break if I squat deep with my butt inside the court.
It very uncomfortable
Cant learn YOUTH hehe
While you are squatting take a crap.
american tennis players has only service power right now :D
huh? the top guys have a strong ground stroke too?
Enough of this BS. Every person has its own unique biomechanics and it doesn't mean Shelton can do it, you can. You just demonstrated that you can't even do it you should not try to teach it that may cause injury to some unsuspecting viewer.