It Can't Be! I love a Tube Amp?! Black Ice Audio FX10 Review
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 ก.ค. 2024
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0:00 Start
1:18 Sponsored Content
3:40 FX10
4:48 Inputs and Power
6:58 Looks
7:38 My Tube History
8:53 What I like
11:42 What I don't Like
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Everyday is awesome! CheapAudio Man keeps it real! It sees people don't like reality these days? Sometimes the truth sucks
Hope everyone is having an awesome day
Why thank you! You as well! 🇺🇦🇺🇸👊
Thanks bud! I love the random kindness stranger act I like to do that one too 😜
Your comment kinda got me at a time I was feeling a little squirrelly and it made me feel better so I appreciate you!
Thats statistically impossible.
@Fletcher Fortune take your negativity elsewhere! 🇺🇦🇺🇸👊
@@fubartotale3389 it wasn't a definitive statement about the article, it is statistically probable that he was hoping everyone is awesome. I would guess 99% of cheapaudioman viewers feel awesome at least once by virtue of the fact they listen to music.
Black Ice Audio is in fact Jolida (changed the name). So it is a well established brand.
I was wondering about that. I have seen this amp under the previous brand.
Excellent content and format. I enjoy these unbiased reviews of products most of us would actually want and buy, with references to the music we actually listen to. Keep up the great work.
I appreciate that you haven't fully given up on tube amplifiers. I like the glass enclosure on this way better than the cages.
Friend of mine just got the Willsenton R8 last week and absolutely LOVES it!!!!
That looks likea Great option for an integrated amp! All my tubed pieces are pre amps. I love matching them up with a good solid state amp. This FX-10 is on my list. Thanks Randy! 👍
I got their F22 tube amp last month, and loving it.
I found a 1957 hardon kardon tube amp just sitting on a high shelf in a dirty thrift store so of course I bought them. There was a inch of dust on the board. I totally restored it resordered every thing painted the case with a flacked red it looked awesome and when I finally heard it wow .
I am still using TubeCube 7 and it's a marvelous little beast. Running 90db bookshelf speakers and the sound is absolutely gorgeous, not super loud, but neither low for it's 3.5w per channel. Of course, with proper tubes, in my case Telefunken 12ax7 and Lorenz EL84.
Nice review Randy. Big part of low watt tube amp enjoyment is the music choices and the speakers. You really need super efficient speakers and high quality recordings to make these things shine. It’s a niche thing for sure and will not satisfy metalheads or grunge lovers (not that I have anything against either, I love to rock out with big solid state amps too). Acoustic, female vocals, jazz, and mellow 70’s rock are where it’s at for these type amps. When you get the symmetry right, they can be pure magic on a set of Klipsch heritage speakers.
Hi Randy thanks for another great video. Won't you do more videos on Class D tube Hybrid Amps? You should check out the nobsound DJ 525 (with the rectifier tube). Think it would pair well with the Sony sscs5?
I bought a Cayin LA34 in 2013. It has 4xla34 tubes, 1x 12ax7 and 2x 12au7. Changed the power tubes every 2 plus years and preamp tubes every 4 years. I listen to it 3 hrs a day. It is matched with Marantz cd6004 and Diamond 10.4 floorstanders. All purchased same time as the amp. The stereo runs well, I enjoy biasing the powertubes (which I run a bit cooler) and the music is smooth and enjoyable. Affordable price too.
Tone controls! Yes! I have them on all my amps, guitar and keyboard too. Helps to match up speakers. But good amps will not make bad speakers spew magic. My dream sound right now is a cheap Blutube amp 35 wpc, set -0.5 highs, +1.8 lows, into Elac dbr62 reference (2) speakers. I like bass. The amp may be a bit bright, but this combo, "oh what a feeling". No sub for my room needed. Matching matters. Rpm600's are also very impressive with a tamer amp. Just my thoughts. Thanks CAM. I will keep your secret.
I have an old Dared SL-2000a preamp with expensive nos tubes I bring out every now and again..I think tubes are fabulous sounding and a good tube preamp really opens up the soundstage and can make the notes sound just slightly rounder than most solid state gear. I also have a cheap little tube integrated I'll use at times for near field listening, the realism is so cool. I do enjoy the power and ability to use low ohm less sensitive speakers with my main solid state set up too though. Tubes, Solid State..it's all good, I could live with either.
Your sponsors should be very proud to have you sponsoring them; once again very funny to watch.
Size comparisons are very important, glad to see you’re doing them again, don’t measure things, that’d be weird, good stuff Randy!
I have the original Jolida (now Black Ice) EL84 amp, the JD102B. The current one costs twice as much, but has auto-bias and a remote. Midrange to die for, along with the associated hassles of tube maintenance/replacement and heat, and the cost of tubes is far higher now than just a few years ago.
Being forward in certain frequency ranges could be a function of the impedance curve of the speakers you partnered those other valve amps with. From what I've read/watched, Valve amp's voltage out tends to track slightly the impedance curve so where the curve goes up, so does the volume. Slightly.
Thanks for the great content! Have a Great Thanksgiving!
I don't think many folks would mistake the Tube Cube sold by Tube Depot for a HiFi piece of gear. I used mine to power some little speakers on my work bench. Tube Depot is also the US distributor for several really nice tube diy preamps and power amps from Elekit, a Japanese company. I've built and still use them off and on. I've never noticed any mid-range imbalance with EL 34 or the KT family of tubes mentioned in the comments below. Interesting to note for tube skeptics, much of the rock and roll and blues you may hear may very well have passed through a tube or valve (for UKers) somewhere along its way to the audience. That may includes some EL 34s. Tube amps may not be as naturally suited for power amps but many companies still do a great job on that end. I don't use my Elekit power amp (34 watts) a lot but I do often run the tubed preamp as a phono stage and as a unity gain stage for the line inputs I use. The fun is in the experimenting.
Hi Randy love your videos👍
Just wondering where I can purchase the blue tubes or something similar.
Many thanks.
Few…so few places in the rabbit hole known as TH-cam where I can laugh and learn as much as this ❤🙏🏼👍🏼Oh, and happy thanksgiving 🍁
You, Randy, may quite possibly be the coolest audio dude on the planet! Keep up the great work. I absolutely love your channel!
Tube amps don't have the high damping factor that we are 'used to' with transistor amplifiers and will sound quite different with different speakers' impedance curves. I have a set of bookshelf speakers that are horribly boomy when used with tubes, yet on a modern transistor amp there is no problem. As some of the commenters have stated, there is some matching to take in to account. The personality of the speakers will come in to play.
Man I have been curious about Black Ice ever since I saw your video including them. I'm curious about their DAC as well
Man I got my first tube amp last year ( Wilsenton R8) and I’m sold. Brought the passion back for me. With Heresy IV ‘s it’s magic.
Hey Doug!, I have two systems in my vast, dedicated listing space. Parasound preamp and amp drives Martin Logan Classic 9's electrostatics.
Then, right along side, I purchased the Willsenton R8 and a new pair of Klipsch Forte Fours. WONDERFUL COMBO! I think it is very cool to have two, TOTALLY different systems in the same room. Enjoying both. I know you are loving your R8 as well with the Heresy 4's 🙂
Get you a powerfull tube amp with good transformers like a McIntosh 275 and some klipsch lascala you'll be able to do the heavy metal grunge thing all day. old black sabbath sounds amazing through tube amps
Seems like many tube guys ended up with solid state amps and tube preamps. The Amp giving the grunt and the preamp the tube magic. Best if both worlds and also not having to worry as much about those driver tubes not lasting and needing to replace. Preamp tubes will last much longer. I've been down this ride and it was a fun ride. Downsized and now just use a Suca tube buffer which adds a nice amount of spice to the Aiyima A07(which is amazing).
I feel this is the perfect combination. You get the tube chewiness and solid state dynamics. A tube power section can sound beautiful for certain types of music or in a near field setup, but without huge power (and huge cost & power consumption) dynamics will always be compromised. It's the nature of the beast.
I had a 40wpc tube power amp for a while. It was a push-pull dual mono block on a single chassis. 13 tubes in total. It was like an additional heater in my living room.
Ditto. Tube preamp now for me.
Black Ice Foz Sound Expander looped into a Peachtree Nove300 pumping crazy love current into vintage Vandersteen’s 2C’’s…. Sweet fancy Moses with his balls hanging out!
Just wondering what your thoughts on audioengine D1 might be. Thanks for what you do. It's appreciated.
I'm a little confused about the declaration that you don't like Tube Amps since you have highly rated and recommended the Aiyima T9 Amp. Can you clarify?
Hey Randy! Speaking of tube amps, I lost (long story) my Aiyima T 9 mini-Amp remote control. Got one you're not using? Anyone?
If you want to hot rod or just mod, the biggest thing to affect the sound will be a different output transformer. As long as it has the same input impedance, it'll be fine.
Hi, love your content, new to the hobby. If i only have a digital signal (PC) going throuht a DAC, do i need a pre amp? or it can go direct to my amp and then speakers?
Thanks!
As long as you have a way to control the volume, yes you can do it that way. I've done it.
Entertaining as always! I struggle with whether I want a tube amp. I can’t bring myself to pay $5-10k for a “good” one. This amp brings it closer to reality.
Don't forget the heat too. If you live in a place that has hot summers, you won't want to use it during those months. A good push pull amp will have at least 7 tubes. If you do decide, I'd recommend the Willsenton R8 as the cheapest decent amp. It's got plenty of power (maybe not maggies or electrostatics) and plenty of bass.
I didn't notice a significant difference between tubes and AB amps. And I'm using some very revealing and exotic speakers. So I'm sticking to my 20W vintage 1979 AB amp. It only cost me 40€, it fits nicely in my TV sideboard and it doesn't heat up the room.
I think you should listen to tube amps with kt88s.. I'm sure you'll prefer that that. I have the Willsenton R8 in KT88 and rock music sounds great on it! It is sparkling on the top but the bottom end is fuller.
DHT like 45 is good to go for small bedroom, sweet listening
Good vid Randy. Hey where did you find that Ironman?
My first tube amp was a Jolida Jd102 I used for ten years and loved it. Jolida was the predecessor company to Black Ice Audio with an almost identical product line-up. I wouldn’t expect anyone to like tubes if they’re basing it off the Bayourange (sp?) or tube cube. Cheap, low-end tube amps tend to offer all the bad of tubes and little-to-none of the good. This Fx10
might be an exception, but it’s hard to find a new tube amp worth buying below $1500, but you don’t have to spend over $5k either. 1500-2000 including shipping can get you a respectable tube amp that puts out 25-45 watts with a beautiful presentation across the entire audible spectrum.
I'd like to see what you think about the willsenton r8
Good day to all
Please help...too much info on You Tube. I have an old version 1 Bose AM-5 speaker set where the sub woofer has the left and right in then left and right out to the satellite dual speakers. Specs says it handles up to 100W per channel. I need to resurrect this speaker set for my garage and want a
I decided for tube technology after tens of years of experimenting and aligning different high class solid state amplifiers like Luxman, Onkyo, Uher, Bang Olufsen and all less known brands also own constructions to kind of speakers which I prefere for listening.
How it ended ? I find solid state are sometime more (almost identical) and some less in compare to best my tube amplifiers . Some had a 1-2 dB advantage in low range but it doesnt mean it was desirable by me . . If I would be asked to state "official" gradation always (at best alignment) tube "were able" make it to top. Notice that I use only vintage tube amplifiers with many tubes. all with timbre low/high controll and loudness correction . Different solid had different timbres, tube amplifiers are more equal. . Would I convince all audiophiles to have tubes? Not all - because I know it may be not worthy for most of them or frustrating when they will be urged to often replace tubes with new and at the same time they may have not enough skills to controll faults and bias forcing them to use pro service.
If someone decide to pay for tube amplifier, means he accepts more care for cooling, for warming time and possibility to match the output impedance and characteristic to speakers. I would say they are for more,, even most demanding people who have deep confidence why they wanted to choose so. Not for jalousy in others eyes. One of main differences is that above tube amplifier is not possible to stack other gear - they need own space to have visual/manual access to tubes and for cooling .
Nice review. I for one believe that a persons amp choice does reflect the owners musical preference. I suppose if we found a perfect amp it would not matter. I think all amps add a lot more than we might like to admit. For example I like certain tube amps because their harmonic sins are sympathetic and so dovetail with the wood and strings of the mostly acoustic music I listen to. I even prefer my tube base because of a large low impedance power supply so it can rock out too. Nothing wrong with choosing solid state if hard rock is your main thing.
randy, a quick look at prices overall in the Black Ice range had me choking a bit. my preference in electronics is to use tubes in the preamp section and big ss power amps. i was able to score an audio research sp3a1 used for a decent price, and partnered with my ADCOM 555II 200wpc amp, i can put just about any speaker in my system successfully.
for the newer end of things, i might suggest investigating the Rogue Audio line. tube front ends with ss power, even in their integrateds that have a nice 100wpc backing up the tubed front ends. it used to be that Jolida, which became Black Ice, was a decent budget tube alternative but now the Ice is costly.
just a suggestion from your Uncle Tommy.
...higitommy
Your review really points out the need for speaker and amp matching based on listening preferences. No matter what type of amp you have, if the you have the right speakers for that amp you will have something special. I have a self built 3wpc tube amp driving Klipsch La Scalas, and yes even Metallica's Black album sounds great through it.
Tubes and Klipsch... Oh yeah.
Randy! Replying to your vid of this week about open baffles. You like a bit of DIY. Get a set of F-15 full range 15 inch drivers from Lii Song audio. Build a set of plywood baffles measuring 22 inches high and 18 wide. Add a small fast sub. For under 500$ you will have a set of speakers that will DESTROY any box speaker under 5000$, fit in any room (super small footprint) and can be driven by any amp (97 db efficient). Seriously man, this is a cheap one day diy project that results in the greatest bang for buck I've ever experienced in hifi.
You intrigue me. What else did you do regarding the cabinets i.e. internal baffling, porting, and so on?
@@sivalon1 open baffle design so no cabinets or internal baffling what so ever. You do however need full range drivers that were designed specifically for open baffle applications.
1:52 sold on the accent alone, much love man 😂
my appj (same as tubecube7) sounds awesome and isn't falling apart!
This was a Jolida-branded amp about a decade ago...I wish I had bought one then. I wonder if they sell a power-amp only version
Acoustic energy ae100😊 love you brother
The venerable Vox AC 30 Top Boost uses EL 84 tubes and sounds fantastic!
Guitar amps and hifi amps are two completely different use cases. Us guitar players love to create the harmonic distortion hifi guys try to eliminate.
Would love if that was a bonafide headphone amp. Not in the universe of "cheap audio", but my McIntosh MA 352 (integrated tube amp) is great. It truly is my last amp purchase. But it ain't "cheap." Hope your Thanksgiving was great and that you have a great Christmas!
PS- Over a month and the Exter is still my full time carry!! So worth it guys... LOVE MINE!! 😍😍
I like the WARM sound of tubes, but it hard to get the muscle behind the music without spending $10K. So I compromised and purchased a CARY AUDIO Solid State SA-200 series, 350 watt a side on the used market. They designed their amps with tubes like sound. I have not regrets.
My experience with tube amplifiers is that stuff starts failing after time due to the high voltages. I prefer tube preamps (lower voltages) driving solid state amplifiers. My Schiit Saga drives an Emotiva Basx A300 with a nice amount of tubiness. The Saga uses just one tube which avoids tube matching and is economical compared to a six tube preamp. It’s fun trying out vintage and quality modern tubes. My current favorite is a Psvane Tennis Ball 6sn7.
Try something with a set of KT-88 tubes. I've got an SQ-88 from Quest for Sound (Philadelphia area shop) that I bought over 10 years ago while on a random trip to the east coast. It's been a true gem of an amp, and I think it would overcome your personal negatives of tube amps. Plenty of low-end grunt with mild and smooth mids and highs.
Black Ice is sold by Underwood, a dealer for LSA Signature speakers. You should test their speakers.
Black Ice has origins from Jolida that was a leader in tube components decades ago.
Were they Jolida a few years ago?
Hi everyone! I Just bought a Rotel A11 for appox 550 us dollars on Black Friday and i'm happy with it! 😊 Have a Nice weekend, greetings from Norway
I would love to see a Schitt Lyr + reveiw. I can't find a review on youtube.
I've owned several modern tube amps including the wilsenton r8. So far I am not a tube guy! I did however pick up a few vintage amps and the odd panasonic sounds really good when it's working right. I'm a bass head and normally run a sub with the bass turned up. The panasonic no sub turned the bass down. Maybe I will have a tube amp I like after restoration.
3.5mm input is likely a headphone jack.
Also, this amp will likely mate with Klipsch KB-15 bookies, nicely, which can be found for cheap on that well-known online auction site. (no affiliation)
After a minute of research Black Ice is formerly Jolida.
New Mexico here……..everyone have an awesome Thanksgiving. Please don’t drink & drive. 🎉
Btw…..I love sparkling Highs but you gotta have that tight bass!
Policy of Truth into is the best phone “ring tone” ever!
They list output impedance as 4ohm and 8ohm, are they for serious?
If you don't dig EL34's, the KT-77 is a great substitute and in most amps is a drop in substitution. I have them in my Reisong A10. They're more of a u-curve tonally than the EL34, which is a mid-focused tube for sure. Not my sound in a hi-fi amp. The KT-77 has a rounder warmer tone.
Thanks
My very first amplifier which i bought in 1965 was a 12 w per channel integrated amplifier. My next amp was a solid state integrated with more power. The sound was terrible. I could not understand why.
As an tube head, I enjoyed your review. I would agree a valve amp is not for everybody. They are not a plug it in and forget about it technology. As touched on, tube life of the power tubes is a hassle, followed by the excessive heat. I also would like to bring to light that not all tube amps are slow and mushy in the bass. Entry level designs like FX10 do not have the muscle handle a speaker's woofer the same way a more costlier valve amp can. With every one I have owned, I've been able to rock out to Metallica's Black Album as well as to other Rock and Metal titles in my collection. IMHO, the difference here looks to be with the frequency response and power delivery of the FX10. This is not an apples to apples comparison. Even the most modest amp I owned was able to give me satisfying bass on the Metallica Black Album. However, it was rated at 40 Watts, with a frequency response of 10hz to 75Khz under a 4OHM load. Where as when the little FX10 is pushed to 10 watts its response shifts to 26Hz to 50khz. I think my m Anthem/Sonic Frontiers Amp1's ability to deliver more current and play deeper under load, contributes to the quality and bass slam I get out of my system than what you are able to get out of the FX10. Another factor I will also touch on is the type of tube. I moved away from the Anthem to a pair of mono blocks that do not need biasing. The bass out of this pair is superior, they run KT150's that produce 192 watts. Just as clean and tight as what you would get out of the best SS designs. They are beasts in total control of my speakers that allow me to play anything and not worry about distortion or clipping. The catch is, these are amps that are not budget friendly. Not stupid crazy expensive either, but at well over $10K a pair to get into, crazy enough. There is a lot to be said for a $625.00 tube integrated.
Cool looking tube amp. What's on the back!?!?!?
I have *never* owned a tube power amp - I have had a tube preamp for over 35 years, though. And a tube preamp has many/most/all of the good things that tubes have to offer. It is when you are powering speakers when you come up against some of the weaker things about tubes. So, the fact that you were able to use speakers with 2-3dB lower sensitivity than "ideal" for this amp - and still get bass that was good enough to not let you down - says a lot.
Do they have one set binding posts on this amp? Or are there 4 ohm and 8 ohm binding posts? What are the nominal impedance ratings of the speakers you tried?
Why does using a tube pre with powered speakers show their caveats? I was thinking of doing exactly that combination.
Didn't Jolida make the original FX 10 somewhere around 2010? They look almost identical, How did black ice get it?
I think Black Ice were Jolida, though I may be wrong.
I have the Jolida branded version before they rebranded as Black Ice
I love what tubeamps can do for crappy recordings. For instance, I love Gates of Babylon by Rainbow but the recording (original release on vinyl) can sound thin and small. A tube amp by it's very nature gives music a little bit of room to breathe (that holographic presentation) without making it sound sterile or overexcited with very little effort. Which is a tradeoff I guess, when it comes to punch solid state has an easier time?
Anyway, I thought my friend's Elekit tube amp (seperate pre- and poweramp) breathed life into that song my own Marantz PM8006 just can't.
Oh, I used the Linton 85's for that comparison. They do love a tubeamp and the soundstage was massive. Time by Pink Floyd was very satisfying to listen to in that setup. 😊
Unendingly charming 😁
Definitely cool looking
"it's very hot"... Suggests it's going to be hard to use on a desktop without getting the room (or just me) really toasty?
Black Ice Audio make great products.
New lens? Looks awesome. Maybe just a shift to the left.
I love my A/B amps just as much as my tubes.
I'm thinking about the bigger one of those with 45 watts tube power is different even with 10 watts it's more powerful than solid state for some reason
Tubes are awesome what took you so long. I want a black ice finally something good $600 is nothing i spent that on crossover components for my speakers
Was wondering when if you were ever going to review a class A tube amp, glad to see you weren't completely sucked into the tube sound. If it does happen you will no longer be the cheap audioman. The Black Ice only runs in ultra linear mode hence the 10wpc from 2 EL84's. Once you go up the tube food-chain you will find models that have the triode mode this will drop the output power from the same sets of bottles but classic rock and metal sound much better in this mode. So Randy don't get sucked in it will be hard on your new wallet, as I have found out.
I have the original Jolida (Black Ice) EL84 amp from the early 2000s, the JD102B. I converted it to triode operating, and that improved the sound significantly, and is still plenty of power in my small room, even driving 85db sensitivity bookshelf speakers.
Try a kt88 tube amp I have one I am pretty shaw you will to
This is why you should do biamping because the bottom end or the lower speakers are better with solid state and the upper speakers are better with tube
Try the 45 watt model they sell i think you will change your mind on tubes
A pro tip if you hate the remote: Buy a "fancy" ir learning remote, like steel or anything you like. And ditch the cheap plastic one afterwards 😎 Aliexpress has some cheap fancy metal ones..
Wtf that's a very nice price for a good tube amp! Hope they ship to Ireland.
Hmmm! I own a Chinese made EL34 tube integrated around 40-50 watts x 2, maybe 50lbs+ and the bass is weighty enough, the mids are not particularly forward and the highs are quite smooth?
I guess it depends on which amp it is. The amp is actually a Jolida-the company from which Black Ice was morphed, lol. Black Ice, lol. What a name! They should be located up here under Canada with us, because we KNOW what black ice is, lol!
EL 84s are usually lower power and some, do, like them quite a bit! I can't say, because I have no experience with those tubes. And some like the KT 88s for bass, but frankly, I don't find my EL34s lacking there? I run them on some old school JBL monitors-the L80t series which are reasonably efficient. You really can't go wrong with some vintage JBLs and tubes. Oh, my remote could probably send someone to the hospital. Those old solid aluminum block remotes that are almost indestructible and HEAVY!
@cheapaudioman, Also Randy, Goldfish are cold water fish. You'd need to opt for a tropical species.
Is it auto biased?
Or manual.
I just came across this exact amp but it had the Jolida name instead of Black Ice. Common practice with Chinese companies to sell a design to many companies, other places and industries as well.
No. Jolida just changed their name to Black Ice a few years ago. The original FX10 was branded Jolida. Jolida/Black Ice is a company in Maryland that has their designs built in China. However, their original partner there tried to steal their designs and marketed/sold them on their own, claiming they were the actual Jolida company. A long drawn out lawsuit ensued, and Jolida USA eventually prevailed.
You mentioned that it is a bit lacking in bass (thin). Since tube amps are generally following the same basic topology of the last 70-90 years, my bet is the interstage coupling caps are too small a value. Way back in the day, speech was most important, so reducing the bottom end for clarity was paramount. These days, if you want "talk radio", you'll use something other than a tube amp, generally. Finding these caps and going 1 or 2 values larger will change the tonal characteristics, allowing more lower frequencies through. Just don't go too much or it will end up muddy and straining to deliver the power to the correct frequency bands. If you want, there are plenty of impedance frequency calculators on the net.
As a New Mexican, I approve of that mug.
Do you have people on here saying to contact for a won giveaway
Good video! I love my tube amp (KT88), but in summer I don’t like the heat it generates. Randy, I think you should update your intro to be muzak or metal, but not both. It’s jarring.
"I could measure it, but I'm not." HA!🤣
I owned this for a year or two before the company changed names. Impressive offering but there was transformer hum audible from the unit moreso than through the speakers. The company said that they couldn’t hear it in the recordings I sent them, which was disappointing. I wouldn’t buy from them again (even though I technically bought second hand).
I find it funny the music you prefer that all those bands would only use tube driven equipment to amplify their instruments.