Remember fellas, the biggest choice is not WML vs handheld, but to train or not to train with whatever ya got. Both gear choices have their respective drawbacks. The issue with a handheld (besides losing a hand on the gun) is that most of us use it for mundane tasks, and the batteries may not be in great shape when we need it in a critical situation. My WML will have 98%+ of its original charge. Personally, I carry both, but would not rely on a handheld for self-defense.
I carry a modlite for self defense only and also a little streamlite penlight single aaa for admin stuff. It really isnt too much to carry. Just how i do it.
@@Whiskey.Tango.ActualI took a white light pistol course with the streamlight pen light and it actually was super useful. I also used a streamlight polytac and surprisingly prefer the pen light
@@CiviTac that literally what Ernest Langdon said he carries during one of his classes I attended. Pretty wild. He proved you don't need a super high lumen/candela light.
I have both a handheld light and a WML because I see the value in having both depending on the situation. For me, it's just about having different tools for different reasons. Ultimately, it always come down to training in the proper use of whatever you're carrying.
My problem with WML is the saying that "well but you need to positive id to know if hes actually a threat". Ya but youre already pulling out your handgun...you shouldve seen he was a threat or had a weapon before even reaching for the gun. People seem to skip a step.
I used to carry a light on my full size CCW. I always carry a handheld in my pocket. I took a few low light classes and realized that wml is a “nice to have” for me. I like the weight reduction on the belt line.
Well we will see if you ever need to use it if your brain can process getting out both a flash light and a gun at the same time…good luck would be my thought, I carry both but if I’m using the flash light and someone starts firing I’m going to my wml and having two hands on the gun especially for accuracy train all you want you will never be able to return fire as fast or accurate with one hand opposed to two hands
@@trentrockwell6598tbh a WML on a CCW has its pros and cons but tbh most altercations happen between 1-7 meters and with how fast things happen and adrenaline you wouldn’t even bother turning it on
I've been in this situation. Your light can be used as an excuse against you that you had a gun pointed at them. It also gives away your position. It's main advantage is to blind someone which means you need a large light. WML is more beneficial for LEOs. I'd rather have nods and IR light like the military. But have a WML just in case. The key is being adaptable.
I’ve ran both ways but I lean more towards no WML for carry. And honestly I don’t ever leave home without a handheld light in my pocket. WML also naturally creates a bigger gap between kydex & trigger guard as well. I’ve never seen or heard of a civilian DGU where a WML was needed/used. To each their own for sure but I’m with you on this one. Thanks for the content brother 🤙🏼
Thanks for the input and great point about real life use. Yes, there are almost no recorded incidents (state side) where a civi employed the use of his/her WML. But that also isn’t one of my reasons for not using one.
I carry both mainly because It’s my everything pistol for now. Maybe when I can get another pistol I will probably carry without the light. Thanks for the advice!
I do not use WML's on a pistol. I had a WML on a duty pistol for 25 years only because it was required and NEVER used it or needed it. In all the low light/night pistol shootings by suspects, victims, and officers I observed or was a part of, no one used a wml even if they had one. Not once in 25 years. I only carry a WML on long guns. Do what works for you.
Let me be quick to slam these keys on my keyboard............you ready......here we go............excellent video sir. Thank you for this honest perspective. Keeping it real.
I'm just a dude, I carried a WML plus a hand light. I switched a few years back, based on studies and events. I carry my glock, strong side/IWB and hand light. No red dot.
Anyone who has taken enough classes knows… and as both Steve Fisher & Mike Glover always say, “two hands on the gun is always better than one hand on the gun.” If you think you can shoot as fast with as much accuracy as two hands on the gun vs one handed with a handheld light in your other hand… guess again and I urge you to try a lowlight competition course with handheld vs WML. Let alone, you’re banking on being able to draw BOTH your gun AND your handheld in the moment of need. I’ve done 5 lowlight classes and never have I ever said “man I wish I didn’t have my wml for x reason”. No, IMO, ESPECIALLY for civilians, two hands on the gun is infinitely better and more reliable, and one handed manipulation of a light is also IMO infinitely better than two handed draw of light & gun. 2x the mental processes for drawing vs 1. PID is the most important reason for a light… other than that looking at it from an objective pt of view, I just don’t see how drawing two items is better than 1 #OODAloop. I always carry BOTH a WML and handheld Modlite OKW and PL350+ PLHV2. But IMO, CCW with a WML, even a small flush fit TLR7, is still better. Don’t think you’re a moron… just think I’d rather take my chances drawing one item vs two. I may not have that second hand capable to hold said light…
I've taken two low light courses and they both taught me how unnecessary a weapon mounted light really is to the average civilian. A handheld light will probably be used a thousand times before a weapon mounted light will be.
Agreed. I've never thought to myself, "I wish I didn't have a light" in classes or otherwise. All pros and no cons to having a quality light on your gun. Like the video and others have said I believe you need a quality handheld as well. Have a blessed day everyone and train on.
Ben: "Don't just dive into the comments section before you listen to the video and hear out my rationale." I'm currently 3:20 into the video and you haven't even started yet dude lol Edit: for those curious, the reason to not use a WML starts at around 8:20
@@wisemencompany He’s not wrong. You’ve been in this game long enough to know this. We all know you don’t give a shit what everyone else thinks, so just get to your point and your reasoning for why vs trying cover all the preemptive butthurt you think a topic like this will cause. I give you mad props for posting it. It does take balls…everyone will do what they feel is right for them anyway 🤷♂️
I agree with what you're saying, however couldn't this issue be fixed by getting a weapon mounted light that is less bulky and also simultaneously have a handheld light so you don't have to take out your weapon, but if you need to take your weapon out you can now double grip your weapon and have your light out as well. The hand held would probably have to be dropped to double grip it but there might be some options there. Thoughts? Also there are some handheld flashlights that would promote being able to use a double grip more effectively or even using a ring on your handheld flashlight.
You should NEVER carry a WML without a handheld. Nor should you use the WML as a handheld. If the WML is used correctly it can only be an asset. There aren’t any real cons other than bulk if that’s even a concern for you. Smaller lights like the TLR-7 IMO are the perfect sized WML for concealed carry.
true, i dont agree with some of the stuff he says in this video about wml because realistically, ur not gonna be getting in a long fire fight while always holding a hand held flash light, ur going to need that other hand free to use ur phone to call for help. oh but u didnt bring ur wml because of ur hand held flash light, what r u gonna do? drop it to make a phone call? good luck with that, i can just turn on my wml and use my other hand to call for help.
I carry both. Surefire Stiletto Pro handheld and TLR7A on the pistol. The big reason is the holster indexes on the light keeping the gun from getting excessive wear. Gives me the best of both worlds. Having a TLR7A on your pistol doesn’t add much bulk and gives you a redundancy in case your handheld battery dies, or you need your hand free, or your handheld gets knocked out of your hand in a fight.
Appreciate the context & reasoning why you don't rock a wml, my edc (19x) just has a dot (Horosun) & no light currently (carry one handheld). I've been considering adding a wml for a while now but for edc, you & Phil made quality points & I'm going to stick w/ no wml on my edc pistol & continue to train w/ a handheld light 🤙
You just earned yourself a new subscriber, buddy. I like the take on WMLs! Im still figuring it all out. I Have a pistol with a WML it is more of a home defense set-up, but my everyday carry does Not have one. And I don't think it ever will.. thanks for the good content. And just kidding, I've been subscribed for a while . I am looking forward to new content.
and? what happens if u go out at night? and u dont have wml on ur light, and realistically u need to use ur other hand to use the phone to call for help? drop ur hand held? lots of people forget about that common sense detail. they have never been in a real life situation so they wouldnt know, but realistically, ur not gonna be getting into a long fire fight like call of duty and using ur hand held, ur going ot need that other hand free to call for help on ur phone. so now u have another option to turn on ur wml. what's the con for having extra lights? esepecially on ur weapon except for a lil more weight?
I really like a modified Harries technique for handheld light use while shooting. Think Harries but with a cigar-hold on the light instead of a full grip. This makes the light point forward so you don't have to blade off and change your whole stance. Works great with SF "combatlight" models which are designed to be gripped between your fingers, but works fine with normal handhelds too.
These comments are going to be good. I carry both ways depending on the situation. I did a little low-light force-on-force and the guys that were heavy on the WML were chalk magnets.
try calling the police or use ur phone with ur flash light in ur hand. people skip that crucial part, ur not going ot get into a long battled fire fight all day. realistically ur going to need to use ur weapon and also use ur other hand to use ur phone to be calling for help.
100% agree. I came to this right after the launch of the X300 in a Surefire class many years ago. While i do have WMLs on some setups, they are for different roles, not normal CC. Gear fits the mission. And honestly we all need more training than anything.
I agree that training is paramount. Your equipment is a liability without it. I personally carry and train with both. I have the WML for two main reasons. My pistol is also my bedside weapon and I’m not taking off a light and changing holster every time I head out the door. Second is because a WML adds capability. If the capability isn’t worth the cost/weight/bulk that is your choice and I respect that.
I dont disagree with either of you in the video, however I prefer to have an x300. It sounds weird but it makes carrying easier(if you want to know ill explain, just ask) and I've never been bummed to have a light on my gun while training, and lastly I really only use my one glock 19 for everything so keeping it the same is nice mentally. Agree with you about more training, so ill go get some extra dry fire reps tonight. Thanks for the quality content and have a blessed day.
@@jessegaluk I thought a flush light would be better too, but I found the weight of my g19 and a spare 17 round mag in appendix carry would lean outward because it's top heavy. I'm short it actually pushed into me harder and would bruise me, with the x300 it helps add length and it balances nicer after a full day.
When I was at the state patrol academy we never used pistol mounted lights. We carried a separate hand held light. For me a good option we be to carry an Olight Baldr pro R in your pocket and if for some reason you need to mount it to your pistol it has a quick attachment
WML allows you to drop your handheld as you draw and still have a light on the guy and shoot two handed. Also it allows you to see during and after the shooting if the threat still exsists or not, again while having both hands on the gun. Both hands on the gun means you will be more accurate, shoot faster while maintaining acceptable accuracy, and have better retention from a grab attempt. Also it is MUCH more likely you will be in a situation where you can see with your unaided eye that a person is a threat while the light is still low enough that blasting them in the face with your WML as you come on target and fire will give you an advantage than it is that you will be in such a dark area that you can't ID the threat without a flashlight. In that situation, the most likely one for a civilian to encounter, without a WML you will simply lose that advantage as drawing a light and your gun at the same time is unrealistic. And with lights like the TLR-7'X that are relatively affordable and add so little weight and bulk to a gun the size of a Glock 19 and bigger, there is no reason not to have that advantage if that's the size of gun you carry.
I actually came to the exact same conclusion. I have carried 6 years and I started looking at weapon mounted lights and even tried carrying it. The issue I had was....if the light is on the handgun, then it's ONLY usable when you draw. Once you draw, especially in California you BETTER have a good reason. So I chose a surefire flashlight for carry because I can draw a flashlight anytime and not be charged with a crime, it offers me alot of utility, and the flashlight by itself IS its own weapon. So the versatility I get from a separate flashlight exceeds anything I would get from a weapon mounted light. Now if I was using a handgun offensively for work.....then I would definitely have one on my handgun. But a CCW weapon is defensive and shouldn't be coming out for any other reason than to be used Just my 2 cents
For me, tlr 1 and like a sure fire x300 make a 19x/shadow mr920L very uncomfortable for carry and if it’s uncomfortable I don’t like to carry it as much. A tlr7a would work and I might get one in the future but for now I don’t wanna change holsters and a flashlight works for what I need rn. I’m with ya
I like having both hands on the gun and be able to have a light at the same time so I’m going to run a wml. In addition to that I like to have an edc light for the moments where you want a lot of light but don’t want to draw a gun, but if I’m not wearing clothes where having all of that is comfortable I’m fine with omitting the edc light. A phone light covers 98% of what I’d use a flashlight for. Edc light is another 1.9% and wml is .1% but a very important .1%. No hate on edc light only or wml only, but that’s what I like. I will hate a bit on no light though, I think you should have something.
I agree with you perfectly. Never thought about it this deep until this video. But i already ordered a holster with light option. Like you say for civilian carry i can actually see your point and agree with you. In the home or when traveling i belive in having a WML Although i will say i am probably still going to get a WML for every pistol i have. but i will get two holsters for each pistol i have, one with a light and one without light. Then just determine what i am doing for the day to determine the setup i use.
Great video. I carry a pocket light and a WML with a laser. Use either depending on the situation. Daylight? Noting will help you but irons or maybe an optic. Also depending on the set up, holsters can be hard to find. If you find one, it may not be comfy. If it isn't comfy, you won't carry. Do what's best for the person and the situating. I take my light off depending on my holster. I always have a pocket light. 1 is none; 2 is one. Learn how to use the weapon light, and know what a WML can possibly do....bad guy aims for the light. Sorry so long. Thanks again. Great video.
Agreed, I fall into your logic 100% and do the same. No WML on CC but my nightstand pistol and rifle are both fitted with WML. I rarely go out at night with my family and always have a separate light on me too.
This past year I went away from WML on my CC. I got caught up in the internet warriors/influencers saying “you need a WML”. In my older years I’m going for comfort. I’m not out at the time a WML would be considered by some, anyways. I do carry a pocket flashlight, too. I have many stream lights, they are affordable, great alternatives to the much higher priced ones. If I lose one I won’t cry too much if I have to order another.
I have a Surefire X300 on my CCW because of the PHLster Floodlight. It's the best concealment holster I've ever used and you can't use it without the light. If I ever get convinced that WMLs are a bad thing, I'll just take the batteries out of the X300 and put it back on my pistol so that I can keep using that holster.
I don’t use a WML when I carry for two reasons. First, I carry a Walther PDP Full Size 5 inch barrel pistol on me everyday. I personally like to carry the biggest gun I possibly can while keeping it concealed with little to no printing. So I have to keep my holster as minimal as I can. An appendix holster for that gun with a spot for a WML would be just a bit bulkier than I want. Second, I’m old! By the time the sun goes down, my old a$$ is already in the house for the night. 😂 That said, I do put a light on my gun at night for home protection.
Carry whatever you want. I usually carry a WML but i ALWAYS have my EDC handheld light. The WML is a “nice to have” while the handheld is a “must have” for me. Even if I’m traveling and can’t carry a gun, I’m never without my handheld EDC light. If you can only carry one, definitely go handheld. And definitely train with both.
Spot on, I love carrying a handheld light. A potential threat needs to be identified but in most cases, won't need a gun pointed at it....because it isnt actually a threat
Finally someone talks about the elephant in the room. I have asked this question for the last 15 years, watching folks trying to carry full-size tactical hand gun setups in low vis carry or concealed carry options. My first question was always what hours of the day do you operate in the most, the overwhelming response was daylight hours say 7am to 7pm. Then I would ask why do you carry a weapon mounted light during the day. The answer was Monkey see Monkey Do becuase all the internet cowboys do. 😂😂😂😂😂
As a civilian, I have never owned or wanted to put a WML on any of my edc pistols. If I was a LEO or active Military police then I see a reason to have one. Again, this is my personal opinion for me and me only.
make sure ud ont go out at night then. because uve made a grave mistake, especially when u need to use ur other hand thats holding a flash that to use the phone to call for help.
Agreed. A WML is meant for searching/clearing and perhaps useful for home defense when the power is out. Personal defense situations don't require a light. These events occur at very close range. You'll see your adversary, even in low light, and yes, even in darkened theaters. The wannabe commandos don't want to hear this.
Interesting conversation, loved that you were able to lay out your thoughts/reasons clearly and concisely. The whole handheld or WML arguement is silly to me, because as you said there's no way a WML can replace a handheld for utility tasks. For me the question has always been if I want to a WML to go along with my handheld, or just carry a handheld and no WML. To me, a TLR7 adds so little bulk to a carry sized gun (like a Glock 19 or 43x) that I have no reason to not carry one. Plus, if I have to use my CCW in a low light situation, I'd like to be able to use my normal 2 handed grip to tilt the odds in my favor as much as possible. But if you can only carry one, the obvious answer is to carry a quality handheld. I never leave my house without my Surefire Stiletto Pro and wind up using it for something just about every day.
Surefire is the only real choice if you want to be professional.I have trusted Surefire flashlights for 15 years in the military as an 18A and for 20 plus years as a State Trooper.They never fail and always work when needed.
I've been carrying every day for well over a decade and I don't carry with a WML either. That being said never leave home without a very bright flashlight in my pocket, which I use on a daily basis. I don't like the added weight and extra bulk that comes with a WML. I don't plan on room clearing or looking for threats with my CCW. It's a get-home tool, not a seek-and-destroy.
Had to take a break from the video because “listen” was used about 700 times in the first 3 minutes. Aside from that a good video. For the record-have a surefire 300T on my home defense gun and nothing on my CCW
I disagree it offers faster follow up shots and better accuracy as you have the ability to use your support hand, Notice he is shooting close range with one hand get that out to 25-50+ yards good luck with that you may have to fire at a target past 50+yards to defend yourself especially in a parking lot or something
I listened carefully to both of you guys. Still, I say carry a small wml on your hand gun and a hand held light. That is my preferred method. You do you.
I've gone back and forth on carrying with and without a WML. I tend to lately prefer the additional comfort, but also run a high lumen/candella handheld light that has the Switchback 2.0 ring. It's not quite the same as running a WML but it is a nice option to have if you need two hands on the gun. Realistically most civilans will not need to run their handguns in CQB environments nor search with it. When you get honest, the handheld has more utility from a concealment perspective. That's my take atleast.
Here is how to quantify if you are on the fence. If you, with hand held went against you with wml & handheld. Who would win? Try a scenario either at the range or low light IDPA/USPSA match, compare times/scores in order to make a real decision for yourself. Chances are very high nowadays that your avg street thug is more skilled, and more practiced & more willing than the avg CCI civilian (given that we teach through TH-cam) So if you can’t best yourself one way or another…. Take the guesswork out and put it to the timer & target! Good video by the way!!!
I never feel that I’m lacking if I’m not carrying a WML but what’s funny to me is the extra length it provides helps me conceal a g17 a bit better. I agree with your conclusions and think that it’s all preference. Your situational awareness and training matter more than anything.
I have been carrying a handheld light longer than I have been carrying a pistol. Many more uses for a flashlight in your pocket than one mounted on a gun. Done a bunch of low light training and there are definitely ways to use a handheld light effectively with a firearm
Up where I’m at I carry a surefire tactician and G19.5 with a TLR1 during the winter because it’s dark for 16-17 hours a day. In the summer when it’s daylight for 16-17 hours I’ll carry my gen 2 G19 with the tactician.
2 is 1, 1 is none. I choose to carry both. I like the WML just in case there is a need to change a mag, clear a malfunction, etc. No one ever knows what situation they will be in. All you can do is train and be prepared.
Yeah I see the logic but I’m not trying to make close or far range shots one handed in a parking lot, I work nights and work outside often in store parking lots, I’m going to be using my weapon it will be either close range because I didn’t see them get so close or far range and I don’t want to worry about having an item in each hand, I carry a flash light and would use it if I need to see but if I need to fire or return fire I will switch over to my weapon light and place better shots then you can one handed especially if you are getting shot from distance like I could be especially in dangerous parts of town
im curious about the reasoning but realistically a CCW shouldn't be kitted out. Its just more stuff in the way. Cant wait to watch this and see how the comments go.
Very valid arguments but….it’s training just get both I mean that is one of the things Sage dynamics talks about a hand held is obligatory but also having WML is there in the transition after identifying if ! there is threat and there is few ways to do it you can also drop the hand held light and use your support hand to clear clothing specially when you wearing more than just a T shirt . So a had held is obligatory but I would say having both brings more advantages and only disadvantages if! You don’t train .
I carry both for that reason. I agree with having a handheld but do think that a WML is a must. It helps reduce recoil and there are plenty of times that you don’t need to ID your threat because you already know they are a threat and you need to be as effective with your weapon as you can and that is only done with 2 hands on the pistol. The points made in this video to me were based around 2 things that don’t relate to me. #1 was prioritizing comfort…I don’t do that. #2 was not training properly with your WML. I agree that there are more people than not that don’t know how to use their WML properly. I did commit to watching the entire video with an open mind though….it was hard because I love training with my WML 😂. Also I carry an X300 A model just for the reason that if my handheld dies then I can take it off and using the push button temporary on I have a backup handheld.
Using a wml as an edc flashlight sounds like a personal problem. No one will ever convince me I shouldn't have both options of edc light and wml. Two is one, one is none. Can think of so many different scenarios you may not be able to use both hands or lose your light etc
I've never heard anyone make the argument of a WML in place of a handheld light, only in addition to. The ONLY reason not to have one is the bulk. If that's your reason that's fine. But if you are already carrying a handheld light, a WML is a great addition, not a required addition but a definite combat multiplier. The ability to have both hands on your weapon and stabilize your shooting is a huge advantage in any situation and definitely triumphs any "liabilities" someone can argue.
No, that’s not true. Did you even watch the video? In addition to bulk, a WML adds weight, snag potential, changes the balance of the weapon, adds a potential legal liability and adds an additional training requirement. Far too many people want to simplify the issue to justify their decision.
I want a light on my EDC but bc knowing most people carry compact carrying a full-size 2.0 with more capacity longer range is more important. . With a full size you need to save as much weight as possible
More days than not my CCW does not have a WML because of the bulky holsters and places I go. Always try to keep my Streamlight HL-X with Thrym switchback on me; I agree that handheld flashlights are more important than WML. Home defense/SHTF weapons all have lights because why not.
I use the Thrym switchback too. Brings the advantages of both by getting 2 hands on gun and activating in same manner as my surefire wml on home defense pistol. Plus, I use the light 2-3 times a day. Never had to use pistol yet.
I have been carrying with out a mounted light for years now, I always keep my EDC simple, my gun my flashlight my knife and rigid wallet as a staple repetitive and useful.
I think everyone can agree weapon light or handheld light, you need a light when it’s dark. Most common argument I hear “what about my night vision. It’s too bright.” Who cares. I want to unleash the damn sun with my flashlight when I need it. The perks of handheld light is that it is cheap. You can also use it without showing a firearm. If you have a weapon mounted light, you often need a handheld to “take a look” without brandishing a gun when not needed. Weapon lights are dummy expensive. I prefer WML as they’re ridiculously bright and let me use both hands. They instinctively help you aim to an extent. And they add weight which almost compensates for the recoil.
I don’t run a WML on any of my carry guns. The reasons for me as follow. Great subject and content. 1. The extra bulk 2. I carry a hand held flashlight. 3. I am not law enforcement and do not feel the need to engage a target. 4. Holster limitations.
Military and Law Enforcement use the light for searching and clearing. That light is off in an actual firefight. Personal defense shooting situations occur at very close range. You'll see, maybe even smell your adversary. A WML and red dots won't matter. You're pointing and shooting. But the wannabe commandos NEED their lights and red dots.🤷🏽♀️
I carried a hand held flashlight long before I attached a weapon mounted light to my pistol, I still carry a flashlight because I don't always have the pistol on me. takeaway from this video: carry both if you choose to. "one is none, two is one".
I got a shine job on my eyeballs like Riddick so now I can see in the dark but I’m pretty much completely blind during the day. I use a weapon mounted light but I put sunglasses over it.
I too ran the don’t then do then don’t with wml carrying. My brain would conjure up every possibility for a self defense scenario. The older I get and the more training I get, the more I prepare for the probabilities not possibilities in my edc. In my get home bag and on my if there is a true emergency gear then every possibility I can think of is planned.
I have one on carry gun, one stand alone. The stand alone is a utility light. I need a light frequently, a handheld light is a great tool for anyone, not just for tactical reasons.
I always carried a G19 with a TLR7, TLR1 or x300. I also carried a good handheld light every day. I switched to carrying my G26 with no WML or red dot and another little 10 round mag in the sidecar. It is SO MUCH MORE COMFORTABLE and my life is better. Never looking back. Beefed the “duty” gun up from the 19 to my G34 that has all the things, and probably just getting rid of my 19.
I've considered this application, but there are just too many scenarios where you will need your support hand free or it will be busy with something else. I carry a WML and a free flashlight. train accordingly
I agree with the principles of this video…I personally have both on me and I use my handheld all day long…however I have a TLR-7 on my G19 because I don’t notice it as far as carrying it and it’s available if I need it. Good video!
Enjoyed the topic, but at the same time, the arguments made are more pro handheld, and less antiWML. So why not both? Fullsize light on the gun (which helps with concealment for me) AND a Cloud MCH. I dont have as much experience as the SME of course, but in the lowlight classes ive taken, which includes force on force, the WML provided a fantastic option that is undeniably easier to shoot with.
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Remember fellas, the biggest choice is not WML vs handheld, but to train or not to train with whatever ya got. Both gear choices have their respective drawbacks. The issue with a handheld (besides losing a hand on the gun) is that most of us use it for mundane tasks, and the batteries may not be in great shape when we need it in a critical situation. My WML will have 98%+ of its original charge. Personally, I carry both, but would not rely on a handheld for self-defense.
Yes. Train and then train some more. This is the correct approach.
I carry a modlite for self defense only and also a little streamlite penlight single aaa for admin stuff. It really isnt too much to carry. Just how i do it.
@@Whiskey.Tango.ActualI took a white light pistol course with the streamlight pen light and it actually was super useful. I also used a streamlight polytac and surprisingly prefer the pen light
@@CiviTac that literally what Ernest Langdon said he carries during one of his classes I attended. Pretty wild. He proved you don't need a super high lumen/candela light.
Well, losing a hand on a gun is a pretty big issue
I have both a handheld light and a WML because I see the value in having both depending on the situation. For me, it's just about having different tools for different reasons. Ultimately, it always come down to training in the proper use of whatever you're carrying.
My problem with WML is the saying that "well but you need to positive id to know if hes actually a threat". Ya but youre already pulling out your handgun...you shouldve seen he was a threat or had a weapon before even reaching for the gun. People seem to skip a step.
I used to carry a light on my full size CCW. I always carry a handheld in my pocket. I took a few low light classes and realized that wml is a “nice to have” for me. I like the weight reduction on the belt line.
As a CC advocate who decidedly doesn’t have a WML, I’ve already started making popcorn
Bahahaha
Well we will see if you ever need to use it if your brain can process getting out both a flash light and a gun at the same time…good luck would be my thought, I carry both but if I’m using the flash light and someone starts firing I’m going to my wml and having two hands on the gun especially for accuracy train all you want you will never be able to return fire as fast or accurate with one hand opposed to two hands
@@trentrockwell6598 God bless you sir for the unsolicited enlightenment you’ve bestowed upon us.
@@jlew6890 anytime a$$hole 👌🏻
@@trentrockwell6598tbh a WML on a CCW has its pros and cons but tbh most altercations happen between 1-7 meters and with how fast things happen and adrenaline you wouldn’t even bother turning it on
Handheld light is a necessity, a WML is a luxury.
Wml is a waste unless it’s a work gun.
This
I've been in this situation. Your light can be used as an excuse against you that you had a gun pointed at them. It also gives away your position. It's main advantage is to blind someone which means you need a large light. WML is more beneficial for LEOs. I'd rather have nods and IR light like the military. But have a WML just in case. The key is being adaptable.
Haven’t even watched it yet and I’m already ready to scream and hug my TLR-1 to bed tonight
By all means hug away.
I’ve ran both ways but I lean more towards no WML for carry. And honestly I don’t ever leave home without a handheld light in my pocket. WML also naturally creates a bigger gap between kydex & trigger guard as well. I’ve never seen or heard of a civilian DGU where a WML was needed/used. To each their own for sure but I’m with you on this one. Thanks for the content brother 🤙🏼
Thanks for the input and great point about real life use.
Yes, there are almost no recorded incidents (state side) where a civi employed the use of his/her WML. But that also isn’t one of my reasons for not using one.
I carry both mainly because It’s my everything pistol for now. Maybe when I can get another pistol I will probably carry without the light. Thanks for the advice!
I do not use WML's on a pistol. I had a WML on a duty pistol for 25 years only because it was required and NEVER used it or needed it. In all the low light/night pistol shootings by suspects, victims, and officers I observed or was a part of, no one used a wml even if they had one. Not once in 25 years. I only carry a WML on long guns. Do what works for you.
I think on a home defense weapon a WML is a must but for edc a pocket torch is more than adequate
Let me be quick to slam these keys on my keyboard............you ready......here we go............excellent video sir. Thank you for this honest perspective. Keeping it real.
I'm just a dude, I carried a WML plus a hand light.
I switched a few years back, based on studies and events. I carry my glock, strong side/IWB and hand light. No red dot.
Anyone who has taken enough classes knows… and as both Steve Fisher & Mike Glover always say, “two hands on the gun is always better than one hand on the gun.” If you think you can shoot as fast with as much accuracy as two hands on the gun vs one handed with a handheld light in your other hand… guess again and I urge you to try a lowlight competition course with handheld vs WML. Let alone, you’re banking on being able to draw BOTH your gun AND your handheld in the moment of need. I’ve done 5 lowlight classes and never have I ever said “man I wish I didn’t have my wml for x reason”. No, IMO, ESPECIALLY for civilians, two hands on the gun is infinitely better and more reliable, and one handed manipulation of a light is also IMO infinitely better than two handed draw of light & gun. 2x the mental processes for drawing vs 1. PID is the most important reason for a light… other than that looking at it from an objective pt of view, I just don’t see how drawing two items is better than 1 #OODAloop. I always carry BOTH a WML and handheld Modlite OKW and PL350+ PLHV2. But IMO, CCW with a WML, even a small flush fit TLR7, is still better. Don’t think you’re a moron… just think I’d rather take my chances drawing one item vs two. I may not have that second hand capable to hold said light…
You’ll never need a wml when concealed.
I've taken two low light courses and they both taught me how unnecessary a weapon mounted light really is to the average civilian. A handheld light will probably be used a thousand times before a weapon mounted light will be.
Meanwhile, Steve Fisher frequently carried without a WML. 🤔
Nerd.
Agreed. I've never thought to myself, "I wish I didn't have a light" in classes or otherwise. All pros and no cons to having a quality light on your gun. Like the video and others have said I believe you need a quality handheld as well. Have a blessed day everyone and train on.
Ben: "Don't just dive into the comments section before you listen to the video and hear out my rationale."
I'm currently 3:20 into the video and you haven't even started yet dude lol
Edit: for those curious, the reason to not use a WML starts at around 8:20
😂😂😂
@@wisemencompany He’s not wrong. You’ve been in this game long enough to know this. We all know you don’t give a shit what everyone else thinks, so just get to your point and your reasoning for why vs trying cover all the preemptive butthurt you think a topic like this will cause. I give you mad props for posting it. It does take balls…everyone will do what they feel is right for them anyway 🤷♂️
I agree with what you're saying, however couldn't this issue be fixed by getting a weapon mounted light that is less bulky and also simultaneously have a handheld light so you don't have to take out your weapon, but if you need to take your weapon out you can now double grip your weapon and have your light out as well. The hand held would probably have to be dropped to double grip it but there might be some options there. Thoughts? Also there are some handheld flashlights that would promote being able to use a double grip more effectively or even using a ring on your handheld flashlight.
Solid points. This video drops right as my TLR7 dies during lowlight shooting.
I'll keep both. But I will never give up my WML regardless. But to each their own and train how you carry. Thanks for sharing.
You should NEVER carry a WML without a handheld. Nor should you use the WML as a handheld. If the WML is used correctly it can only be an asset. There aren’t any real cons other than bulk if that’s even a concern for you. Smaller lights like the TLR-7 IMO are the perfect sized WML for concealed carry.
true, i dont agree with some of the stuff he says in this video about wml because realistically, ur not gonna be getting in a long fire fight while always holding a hand held flash light, ur going to need that other hand free to use ur phone to call for help. oh but u didnt bring ur wml because of ur hand held flash light, what r u gonna do? drop it to make a phone call? good luck with that, i can just turn on my wml and use my other hand to call for help.
I carry both. Surefire Stiletto Pro handheld and TLR7A on the pistol.
The big reason is the holster indexes on the light keeping the gun from getting excessive wear.
Gives me the best of both worlds.
Having a TLR7A on your pistol doesn’t add much bulk and gives you a redundancy in case your handheld battery dies, or you need your hand free, or your handheld gets knocked out of your hand in a fight.
Appreciate the context & reasoning why you don't rock a wml, my edc (19x) just has a dot (Horosun) & no light currently (carry one handheld). I've been considering adding a wml for a while now but for edc, you & Phil made quality points & I'm going to stick w/ no wml on my edc pistol & continue to train w/ a handheld light 🤙
You just earned yourself a new subscriber, buddy. I like the take on WMLs! Im still figuring it all out. I Have a pistol with a WML it is more of a home defense set-up, but my everyday carry does Not have one. And I don't think it ever will.. thanks for the good content. And just kidding, I've been subscribed for a while . I am looking forward to new content.
Thanks for taking the time to listen and comment.
and? what happens if u go out at night? and u dont have wml on ur light, and realistically u need to use ur other hand to use the phone to call for help? drop ur hand held? lots of people forget about that common sense detail. they have never been in a real life situation so they wouldnt know, but realistically, ur not gonna be getting into a long fire fight like call of duty and using ur hand held, ur going ot need that other hand free to call for help on ur phone. so now u have another option to turn on ur wml. what's the con for having extra lights? esepecially on ur weapon except for a lil more weight?
I was scoffing when i clicked on the video, but you have certainly delivered on your word and made me think more about the topic. Thank you!
Appreciate you listening.
I really like a modified Harries technique for handheld light use while shooting. Think Harries but with a cigar-hold on the light instead of a full grip. This makes the light point forward so you don't have to blade off and change your whole stance. Works great with SF "combatlight" models which are designed to be gripped between your fingers, but works fine with normal handhelds too.
These comments are going to be good. I carry both ways depending on the situation. I did a little low-light force-on-force and the guys that were heavy on the WML were chalk magnets.
try calling the police or use ur phone with ur flash light in ur hand.
people skip that crucial part, ur not going ot get into a long battled fire fight all day. realistically ur going to need to use ur weapon and also use ur other hand to use ur phone to be calling for help.
100% agree. I came to this right after the launch of the X300 in a Surefire class many years ago. While i do have WMLs on some setups, they are for different roles, not normal CC. Gear fits the mission. And honestly we all need more training than anything.
I agree that training is paramount. Your equipment is a liability without it. I personally carry and train with both. I have the WML for two main reasons. My pistol is also my bedside weapon and I’m not taking off a light and changing holster every time I head out the door. Second is because a WML adds capability. If the capability isn’t worth the cost/weight/bulk that is your choice and I respect that.
So a $700 pistol doesn't have to cost $979 out the box?
At lest 1k, you forgot the red dot.
I dont disagree with either of you in the video, however I prefer to have an x300. It sounds weird but it makes carrying easier(if you want to know ill explain, just ask) and I've never been bummed to have a light on my gun while training, and lastly I really only use my one glock 19 for everything so keeping it the same is nice mentally. Agree with you about more training, so ill go get some extra dry fire reps tonight.
Thanks for the quality content and have a blessed day.
How well does an x300 carry? I have a flush tlr7 and seems like anything longer would be bothersome
@@jessegaluk I thought a flush light would be better too, but I found the weight of my g19 and a spare 17 round mag in appendix carry would lean outward because it's top heavy. I'm short it actually pushed into me harder and would bruise me, with the x300 it helps add length and it balances nicer after a full day.
When I was at the state patrol academy we never used pistol mounted lights. We carried a separate hand held light. For me a good option we be to carry an Olight Baldr pro R in your pocket and if for some reason you need to mount it to your pistol it has a quick attachment
Eh, I get it. Certainly always have a handheld. I carry a WML and a handheld. The bulk doesn't bother me. Don't really notice much of a difference.
WML allows you to drop your handheld as you draw and still have a light on the guy and shoot two handed. Also it allows you to see during and after the shooting if the threat still exsists or not, again while having both hands on the gun. Both hands on the gun means you will be more accurate, shoot faster while maintaining acceptable accuracy, and have better retention from a grab attempt. Also it is MUCH more likely you will be in a situation where you can see with your unaided eye that a person is a threat while the light is still low enough that blasting them in the face with your WML as you come on target and fire will give you an advantage than it is that you will be in such a dark area that you can't ID the threat without a flashlight. In that situation, the most likely one for a civilian to encounter, without a WML you will simply lose that advantage as drawing a light and your gun at the same time is unrealistic. And with lights like the TLR-7'X that are relatively affordable and add so little weight and bulk to a gun the size of a Glock 19 and bigger, there is no reason not to have that advantage if that's the size of gun you carry.
I’m just here for the comments.
This should be as good as a 10mm is best discussion.
Me to.
I actually came to the exact same conclusion. I have carried 6 years and I started looking at weapon mounted lights and even tried carrying it. The issue I had was....if the light is on the handgun, then it's ONLY usable when you draw. Once you draw, especially in California you BETTER have a good reason. So I chose a surefire flashlight for carry because I can draw a flashlight anytime and not be charged with a crime, it offers me alot of utility, and the flashlight by itself IS its own weapon. So the versatility I get from a separate flashlight exceeds anything I would get from a weapon mounted light.
Now if I was using a handgun offensively for work.....then I would definitely have one on my handgun.
But a CCW weapon is defensive and shouldn't be coming out for any other reason than to be used
Just my 2 cents
For me, tlr 1 and like a sure fire x300 make a 19x/shadow mr920L very uncomfortable for carry and if it’s uncomfortable I don’t like to carry it as much. A tlr7a would work and I might get one in the future but for now I don’t wanna change holsters and a flashlight works for what I need rn. I’m with ya
I like having both hands on the gun and be able to have a light at the same time so I’m going to run a wml.
In addition to that I like to have an edc light for the moments where you want a lot of light but don’t want to draw a gun, but if I’m not wearing clothes where having all of that is comfortable I’m fine with omitting the edc light.
A phone light covers 98% of what I’d use a flashlight for. Edc light is another 1.9% and wml is .1% but a very important .1%.
No hate on edc light only or wml only, but that’s what I like. I will hate a bit on no light though, I think you should have something.
I agree with you perfectly. Never thought about it this deep until this video. But i already ordered a holster with light option.
Like you say for civilian carry i can actually see your point and agree with you.
In the home or when traveling i belive in having a WML
Although i will say i am probably still going to get a WML for every pistol i have. but i will get two holsters for each pistol i have, one with a light and one without light. Then just determine what i am doing for the day to determine the setup i use.
Most people agreeing or disagreeing are doing so based on their current way.
Great video. I carry a pocket light and a WML with a laser. Use either depending on the situation. Daylight? Noting will help you but irons or maybe an optic.
Also depending on the set up, holsters can be hard to find. If you find one, it may not be comfy. If it isn't comfy, you won't carry.
Do what's best for the person and the situating. I take my light off depending on my holster. I always have a pocket light. 1 is none; 2 is one. Learn how to use the weapon light, and know what a WML can possibly do....bad guy aims for the light.
Sorry so long. Thanks again. Great video.
Agreed, I fall into your logic 100% and do the same. No WML on CC but my nightstand pistol and rifle are both fitted with WML. I rarely go out at night with my family and always have a separate light on me too.
Great points, I'm going to start doing a little more training like this, but the one handed grip is the negative to this IMO.
This past year I went away from WML on my CC. I got caught up in the internet warriors/influencers saying “you need a WML”. In my older years I’m going for comfort. I’m not out at the time a WML would be considered by some, anyways. I do carry a pocket flashlight, too. I have many stream lights, they are affordable, great alternatives to the much higher priced ones. If I lose one I won’t cry too much if I have to order another.
Phil really drove your point home. Great video
I have a Surefire X300 on my CCW because of the PHLster Floodlight. It's the best concealment holster I've ever used and you can't use it without the light. If I ever get convinced that WMLs are a bad thing, I'll just take the batteries out of the X300 and put it back on my pistol so that I can keep using that holster.
I don’t use a WML when I carry for two reasons. First, I carry a Walther PDP Full Size 5 inch barrel pistol on me everyday. I personally like to carry the biggest gun I possibly can while keeping it concealed with little to no printing. So I have to keep my holster as minimal as I can. An appendix holster for that gun with a spot for a WML would be just a bit bulkier than I want. Second, I’m old! By the time the sun goes down, my old a$$ is already in the house for the night. 😂 That said, I do put a light on my gun at night for home protection.
Carry whatever you want. I usually carry a WML but i ALWAYS have my EDC handheld light. The WML is a “nice to have” while the handheld is a “must have” for me. Even if I’m traveling and can’t carry a gun, I’m never without my handheld EDC light. If you can only carry one, definitely go handheld. And definitely train with both.
Spot on, I love carrying a handheld light. A potential threat needs to be identified but in most cases, won't need a gun pointed at it....because it isnt actually a threat
Finally someone talks about the elephant in the room. I have asked this question for the last 15 years, watching folks trying to carry full-size tactical hand gun setups in low vis carry or concealed carry options. My first question was always what hours of the day do you operate in the most, the overwhelming response was daylight hours say 7am to 7pm. Then I would ask why do you carry a weapon mounted light during the day. The answer was Monkey see Monkey Do becuase all the internet cowboys do. 😂😂😂😂😂
100% accurate 👆
As a civilian, I have never owned or wanted to put a WML on any of my edc pistols. If I was a LEO or active Military police then I see a reason to have one. Again, this is my personal opinion for me and me only.
make sure ud ont go out at night then. because uve made a grave mistake, especially when u need to use ur other hand thats holding a flash that to use the phone to call for help.
Agreed.
A WML is meant for searching/clearing and perhaps useful for home defense when the power is out. Personal defense situations don't require a light. These events occur at very close range. You'll see your adversary, even in low light, and yes, even in darkened theaters.
The wannabe commandos don't want to hear this.
Interesting conversation, loved that you were able to lay out your thoughts/reasons clearly and concisely. The whole handheld or WML arguement is silly to me, because as you said there's no way a WML can replace a handheld for utility tasks. For me the question has always been if I want to a WML to go along with my handheld, or just carry a handheld and no WML. To me, a TLR7 adds so little bulk to a carry sized gun (like a Glock 19 or 43x) that I have no reason to not carry one. Plus, if I have to use my CCW in a low light situation, I'd like to be able to use my normal 2 handed grip to tilt the odds in my favor as much as possible.
But if you can only carry one, the obvious answer is to carry a quality handheld. I never leave my house without my Surefire Stiletto Pro and wind up using it for something just about every day.
Thanks for your feedback.
Solid post up my friend. And I agree 100% with the group think echo chamber mindset that tends to play out in decision making in the gun community.
It’s wise to have both, I carry a weapon mounted light and I also carry a SureFire Stilleto Pro.
Interesting perspective. Thanks for your insight.
Surefire is the only real choice if you want to be professional.I have trusted Surefire flashlights for 15 years in the military as an 18A and for 20 plus years as a State Trooper.They never fail and always work when needed.
I've been carrying every day for well over a decade and I don't carry with a WML either. That being said never leave home without a very bright flashlight in my pocket, which I use on a daily basis. I don't like the added weight and extra bulk that comes with a WML. I don't plan on room clearing or looking for threats with my CCW. It's a get-home tool, not a seek-and-destroy.
I love having a WMl so when I check the mail at the night I can pull my gun from my holster and see what I'm doing.
I use my wml finding the toilet for a 1am piss
Had to take a break from the video because “listen” was used about 700 times in the first 3 minutes. Aside from that a good video. For the record-have a surefire 300T on my home defense gun and nothing on my CCW
Dont care of your opinion, thank you for my cervix of a comment
Never even occurred to me that I could put a gun on my edc flashlight
100% Agree. Great video. WMLs have their place but are more of a "trend" than a necessary "must" for edc.
I disagree it offers faster follow up shots and better accuracy as you have the ability to use your support hand, Notice he is shooting close range with one hand get that out to 25-50+ yards good luck with that you may have to fire at a target past 50+yards to defend yourself especially in a parking lot or something
I listened carefully to both of you guys. Still, I say carry a small wml on your hand gun and a hand held light. That is my preferred method. You do you.
I've gone back and forth on carrying with and without a WML. I tend to lately prefer the additional comfort, but also run a high lumen/candella handheld light that has the Switchback 2.0 ring. It's not quite the same as running a WML but it is a nice option to have if you need two hands on the gun.
Realistically most civilans will not need to run their handguns in CQB environments nor search with it. When you get honest, the handheld has more utility from a concealment perspective. That's my take atleast.
Good stuff, Ben. Thanks for sharing
I totally agree with you I use my EDC pocket flashlight more than anything. I only have weapons lights on home defense rifles and handguns.
Here is how to quantify if you are on the fence.
If you, with hand held went against you with wml & handheld. Who would win?
Try a scenario either at the range or low light IDPA/USPSA match, compare times/scores in order to make a real decision for yourself.
Chances are very high nowadays that your avg street thug is more skilled, and more practiced & more willing than the avg CCI civilian (given that we teach through TH-cam)
So if you can’t best yourself one way or another….
Take the guesswork out and put it to the timer & target!
Good video by the way!!!
I actually tried this at a class and it was eye opening to say the least. 👊🏼
I never feel that I’m lacking if I’m not carrying a WML but what’s funny to me is the extra length it provides helps me conceal a g17 a bit better. I agree with your conclusions and think that it’s all preference. Your situational awareness and training matter more than anything.
I have been carrying a handheld light longer than I have been carrying a pistol. Many more uses for a flashlight in your pocket than one mounted on a gun. Done a bunch of low light training and there are definitely ways to use a handheld light effectively with a firearm
Great points. I have a wml and a handheld, but the handheld is more important to me.
It all comes down to a matter of preference and that’s it.. it’s not a matter of right or wrong.
Up where I’m at I carry a surefire tactician and G19.5 with a TLR1 during the winter because it’s dark for 16-17 hours a day. In the summer when it’s daylight for 16-17 hours I’ll carry my gen 2 G19 with the tactician.
2 is 1, 1 is none. I choose to carry both. I like the WML just in case there is a need to change a mag, clear a malfunction, etc. No one ever knows what situation they will be in. All you can do is train and be prepared.
Well reasoned and I agree with you.
Yeah I see the logic but I’m not trying to make close or far range shots one handed in a parking lot, I work nights and work outside often in store parking lots, I’m going to be using my weapon it will be either close range because I didn’t see them get so close or far range and I don’t want to worry about having an item in each hand, I carry a flash light and would use it if I need to see but if I need to fire or return fire I will switch over to my weapon light and place better shots then you can one handed especially if you are getting shot from distance like I could be especially in dangerous parts of town
im curious about the reasoning but realistically a CCW shouldn't be kitted out. Its just more stuff in the way. Cant wait to watch this and see how the comments go.
Very valid arguments but….it’s training just get both I mean that is one of the things Sage dynamics talks about a hand held is obligatory but also having WML is there in the transition after identifying if ! there is threat and there is few ways to do it you can also drop the hand held light and use your support hand to clear clothing specially when you wearing more than just a T shirt . So a had held is obligatory but I would say having both brings more advantages and only disadvantages if! You don’t train .
I carry both for that reason. I agree with having a handheld but do think that a WML is a must. It helps reduce recoil and there are plenty of times that you don’t need to ID your threat because you already know they are a threat and you need to be as effective with your weapon as you can and that is only done with 2 hands on the pistol. The points made in this video to me were based around 2 things that don’t relate to me. #1 was prioritizing comfort…I don’t do that. #2 was not training properly with your WML. I agree that there are more people than not that don’t know how to use their WML properly. I did commit to watching the entire video with an open mind though….it was hard because I love training with my WML 😂. Also I carry an X300 A model just for the reason that if my handheld dies then I can take it off and using the push button temporary on I have a backup handheld.
Oh geez, here we go again.
Using a wml as an edc flashlight sounds like a personal problem. No one will ever convince me I shouldn't have both options of edc light and wml. Two is one, one is none. Can think of so many different scenarios you may not be able to use both hands or lose your light etc
I've never heard anyone make the argument of a WML in place of a handheld light, only in addition to. The ONLY reason not to have one is the bulk. If that's your reason that's fine. But if you are already carrying a handheld light, a WML is a great addition, not a required addition but a definite combat multiplier. The ability to have both hands on your weapon and stabilize your shooting is a huge advantage in any situation and definitely triumphs any "liabilities" someone can argue.
No, that’s not true. Did you even watch the video? In addition to bulk, a WML adds weight, snag potential, changes the balance of the weapon, adds a potential legal liability and adds an additional training requirement. Far too many people want to simplify the issue to justify their decision.
I want a light on my EDC but bc knowing most people carry compact carrying a full-size 2.0 with more capacity longer range is more important. . With a full size you need to save as much weight as possible
More days than not my CCW does not have a WML because of the bulky holsters and places I go. Always try to keep my Streamlight HL-X with Thrym switchback on me; I agree that handheld flashlights are more important than WML. Home defense/SHTF weapons all have lights because why not.
I use the Thrym switchback too. Brings the advantages of both by getting 2 hands on gun and activating in same manner as my surefire wml on home defense pistol. Plus, I use the light 2-3 times a day. Never had to use pistol yet.
The Thrym was a game changer for me.
I have been carrying with out a mounted light for years now, I always keep my EDC simple, my gun my flashlight my knife and rigid wallet as a staple repetitive and useful.
Need both , so limited with just a hand held
I think everyone can agree weapon light or handheld light, you need a light when it’s dark.
Most common argument I hear “what about my night vision. It’s too bright.”
Who cares. I want to unleash the damn sun with my flashlight when I need it.
The perks of handheld light is that it is cheap. You can also use it without showing a firearm.
If you have a weapon mounted light, you often need a handheld to “take a look” without brandishing a gun when not needed. Weapon lights are dummy expensive.
I prefer WML as they’re ridiculously bright and let me use both hands. They instinctively help you aim to an extent. And they add weight which almost compensates for the recoil.
Good video and very good points made. Subscribed!
I don’t run a WML on any of my carry guns. The reasons for me as follow.
Great subject and content.
1. The extra bulk
2. I carry a hand held flashlight.
3. I am not law enforcement and do not feel the need to engage a target.
4. Holster limitations.
Military and Law Enforcement use the light for searching and clearing. That light is off in an actual firefight.
Personal defense shooting situations occur at very close range. You'll see, maybe even smell your adversary. A WML and red dots won't matter. You're pointing and shooting.
But the wannabe commandos NEED their lights and red dots.🤷🏽♀️
I carried a hand held flashlight long before I attached a weapon mounted light to my pistol, I still carry a flashlight because I don't always have the pistol on me.
takeaway from this video: carry both if you choose to. "one is none, two is one".
I got a shine job on my eyeballs like Riddick so now I can see in the dark but I’m pretty much completely blind during the day. I use a weapon mounted light but I put sunglasses over it.
I do both. Good video
I too ran the don’t then do then don’t with wml carrying. My brain would conjure up every possibility for a self defense scenario. The older I get and the more training I get, the more I prepare for the probabilities not possibilities in my edc. In my get home bag and on my if there is a true emergency gear then every possibility I can think of is planned.
I agree 100%. Came up with this opinion about a year ago. Very happy with my decision. Thank you for this video.
You want overwhelm the photo luminescence barrier of your attacker and PID your opponent.
I have one on carry gun, one stand alone. The stand alone is a utility light. I need a light frequently, a handheld light is a great tool for anyone, not just for tactical reasons.
I always carried a G19 with a TLR7, TLR1 or x300. I also carried a good handheld light every day. I switched to carrying my G26 with no WML or red dot and another little 10 round mag in the sidecar. It is SO MUCH MORE COMFORTABLE and my life is better. Never looking back. Beefed the “duty” gun up from the 19 to my G34 that has all the things, and probably just getting rid of my 19.
I've watched a lot of ASP videos, and I can't remember ANY where civilians had time to use a WML.
That's because it doesn't happen.
I don't like the weight at the front of my pistols, but a handheld forces one handed pistol manipulation which is r*tarded.
I've considered this application, but there are just too many scenarios where you will need your support hand free or it will be busy with something else. I carry a WML and a free flashlight. train accordingly
I don't edc a WML either. I have Streamlights in my vehicles and packs and if I feel a need I would carry with one.
I agree with the principles of this video…I personally have both on me and I use my handheld all day long…however I have a TLR-7 on my G19 because I don’t notice it as far as carrying it and it’s available if I need it.
Good video!
Thanks for watching.
Enjoyed the topic, but at the same time, the arguments made are more pro handheld, and less antiWML.
So why not both? Fullsize light on the gun (which helps with concealment for me) AND a Cloud MCH.
I dont have as much experience as the SME of course, but in the lowlight classes ive taken, which includes force on force, the WML provided a fantastic option that is undeniably easier to shoot with.