Genesis 1:29 Then God said, “I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. Case closed!
Yep 100% and in the new Jerusalem the lion will lay down with the lamb . However after sin entered into man the eating of meat began. Remember when the children of Israel wandered 40 yrs in the wilderness God gave them manna and interestingly Quail
@@sircorkysriley4904 "Quail" ancient Hebrew Selaw "To be fat", it does not mean a literal bird. Mana (Man is derived), ancient Sanskrit, "thinking mind". I'm sure you can work it out. The lion and the lamb are psychological aspects of the mind, a lion cannot eat plants. Multiple conflicting aspects of the psychology at peace.
@@ShawnDarlinghalibutfisherman How do you know that guy knows anything. Do some real research Yourself! Jesus' real name was most probably Radamere, and he most likely was born in Russia. But there is so much evidence that he lived and taught the world how to leave the matrix and attach to Source. Also, how to heal with a touch and overcome the dark ones in spiritual battles. Get busy participating in right action! Be useful!
Sure a lion can eat plants, plant proteins, and fruits. That is misinformation. Research people that have super healthy cats and feed them no meat. Meat is dirty, filthy protein for any being to consume.
Setting aside religion, the answers are obvious: if violence, abuse and murder are unnecessary, and you still choose to commit them or pay for them to be done, you're doing something unethical/evil. Humans don't need animal products to live and be healthy, and thus animal ag, and buying animal products, are both unnecessary and wrong.
When animals are put in concentration camps then murdered all the hate pain and anguish they feel goes into the meat that you eat. That's why meat eaters get so angry when you tell them that it's not good to eat it. How anyone could kill a beautiful sentient beings is beyond me.
To be fair, part of what we're witnessing is the discomfort of "being accused" (scare quotes because Kam isn't accusing anything, but he doesn't sit in the seat of questionable behavior). We approach veganism with wonder but we defend our accepted lifestyles and culture with a chip on our shoulder, especially because it's usually our mothers who fed us our first meat.
Most tiben monks eat meat, especially yak and are some of the most peaceful, kind, intelligent, and compassionate people I know. You can't reduce a person's temperment to diet. If people eat meat to get their nutrition rather than supplements, that's their choice, not everybody wants to live off supplements. Imagine if they come out with synthetic food you can live off of instead of killing plants and insects, and someone said you're not vegan beause you don't wanna live of nutritional slop like you escaped the matrix. I respect vegans a lot, but it's not cool to expect everybody to live of supplements rather than food. I personally am pesco-vegetarian, and among the seventh day adventist my diet has a lower hazard ratio than a vegan or vegetarian diet. I'm not sacrificing my life for animals, I'm sorry, you do you though.
@@adim00lah The only supplement that is needed is b12 because it comes from the soil bacteria and we wash our produce. Animals in the livestock industry get the majority of b12 supplements because they get don't hardly go outside anymore. Aside from that, all 20 amino acids and the 2 essential fats ALA and LA come from plants. Why do we need fishmeat or other meats?
@@lifeisagift5627 I was vegan for 4 years. Those 4 years I was the most angry of all my life. I have my personal experience and that is enough to know the truth for me.
@@11235Aodh Ala is not easily converted in to dha/epa. I recommend you take some algae oil for omega 3. The conversion is somewhere around 2-10% of ala gets converted to dha. So you would need to consume super high amounts to hit your rda which is unreasonable for most people. The seventh day adventists have a lot of vegans and vegetarians in their population. People consider them to be a blue zone. But the longest living sda's are pesco-vegetarians, they have a lower hazard ratio for all causes of moretality than vegans or vegetarians.
@@adim00lah Sorry, the only sources that claim this are the ones selling or profiting from it. I rather listen to dr. mcDougall and dr. Peter Rogers in this case. Even dr. M. Klaper flip flops on the subject and is unclear. There is zero evidence that we poorly convert ALA, what did all those inland tribes of the past do to cope i wonder without fish or flax.
Genesis 1:29 Is and was the standard of eating. Meat was given AfTER sin -not only cuz there was no trees but also shorten sinners life. As Adventist we believe we are living in the end times and our diet should reflect heaven bound mindset-No animal consumption.
I’m Jewish and have read the first five books of Torah. In Genesis, when my people were wondering the desert, we ate something called “mana” which I am not sure what this actually was but it wasn’t meat. There was a rumbling amongst some of the Israelites to eat meat. But G-d really didn’t want them eating meat but the complaints were so loud that He provided birds to fly overhead- these men killed the birds and ate till they were very full. Soon afterwards they all died. I take this as an admonition that G-d did NOT want us to eat flesh food. Later my people clamored to eat meat again and G-d relented and gave very specific methods and ways to eat meat and what kinds, etc. But to me - allowing us to eat flesh foods is not the same as considering what G-d’s original will is and how we each choose to follow His will or to go our own way. It is my feeling that regardless of what is written later on as Joshua (Jesus) comes onto the scene, God’s intention was that we shouldn’t kill period - not animals or human beings - straight across the board. My opinion only. ❤❤❤
Manna is the spiritual bread from heaven. It's the understanding that comes from the higher mind. The desert is meditation. The Holy Land is the right side/hemisphere of the brain. It's not a physical place.
i've read manna is poo from mealy worms. I was in church recently when the teacher insisted God provided Quails. She said he could have provided anything. This, she said, meant we can eat anything we want. She didn't mention they all got sick an died. Nor that YHWH was fed up of their grumbling for flesh, a bad habit they picked up from egypt.
@@raykowalchuk3812 Jesus was God incarnate (Isaiah 9:6). He could will an animal to die, just as no surgery req'd to make the blind see. He wasn't an AR, vegan hippie!
Agreed! And with some decoding skill and research, it becomes very apparent that the trespass in the garden was Adam & Eve killing and eating an animal.
@@hamerful Sure, thing, do you really think God oversaw everything written in the bible? How about the books taken out by monks in the middle ages? Also overseen? Did these people just die when they did something wrong or was there a thunderbolt or did the pages magically disappear? People didn't lie any less than they do today.
Why would any good and benevolent god put sentient beings on this earth capable of fear, joy, love just to have them killed for a snack we don't need? It doesn't compute.
So the way I look at it is this: the New Covenant Commandment from Jesus was to love others as He loved us. For me, this has included veganism as an outward expression of that Love. I leave animals and animal secretions off my plate because I am in love. At every meal, I am telling my own self, the animals, other people and the earthly habitat at large that I love them.
I am also vegan. But you have misunderstood Jesus' commands about love. Fine, I get that you love animals and don't want to eat them, but Jesus came to earth to *save people,* not animals.
The "new" covenant is not Jesus's teachings. The new covenant is found in Jeremiah 31:33. A lot of people instead of studying the work of Christ they just read the "New Testament". Reading is not studying
@@hamerful The New Covenant came after the cross. You are right, it is not teachings, it is Eternal Life generated through the Faith which Jesus alone provides. Because He first loved us, and has allowed us to know His Love, indwelling in the Holy Spirit, we can love others. All others... animals, environment, people, self, and the Lord Jesus Himself. We love because it is a natural response to His Love.
@@judylloyd7901 You are right. He came for human beings. Animals needed no saving; they did not choose what Adam chose. If you really want to know more about animals and the Kingdom of God, watch Jack Van Impe's work Animals In Heaven. I do not care for most of his stuff, but that program is 777% true.
Jesus was an ascetic and did not participate in butchery or farming. He subsisted through alms and also frequently fasted. He would likely be disgusted by the excess, indulgence, and depravity of modern day animal factory farming. And I think he would be especially disgusted with fast food joints being on every corner while billions of people were still starving and homeless.
Jesus was certainly *not* an ascetic! His enemies called Him a "glutton and a drunkard." Of course, He wasn't either of those, but because He didn't *fast,* as they did, and as John the Baptist did, they slanderously accused Him of the opposite.
Jesus was killed because the Jewish religious leaders wanted Him dead because they were envious of His popularity, and because He exposed their evil hearts. They hated Him for that! Jesus came to earth to save people! He never had any plan or programme to "liberate animals." And Jesus was God in human flesh, so He wasn't just like us, because He never sinned, but lived a perfect life -- the only one who ever satisfied God's requirements 😊😊😊
The HB narrative makes it very clear that Jesus was God incarnate, so yer kinda contradicting y'self. The biblical Jesus certainly wasn't an AR, vegan hippie.
Vegan Hellenic Pagan here, so fascinating to see others who also intertwine veganism with their personal religion. Ethics is definitely my biggest motivator and in my practice, any blood spilled is spiritual pollution and the best way to connect with the holy aspect of nature is not to desecrate it for selfish pursuits. Most meat eaters I met were Christian, so it's extremely refreshing to see one arguing against the notion!
There are some pagans who believe in using or sacrificing animals too. And make art about it. Or use animal parts to make things like art. There were ancient vegan christians and in the bible. Watch BitesizeVegan on historical/ancient vegans. The Seven Days Adventists try to avoid animal products. I think they were the reason for one blue zone too. The blue zones have the longest lived people. Watch Rich Roll on the blue zones. The man who investigated the blue zones for years said it convinced him to eat plant based.
I understand people liking the taste of animal products but why tac on a weird or psycho and fake "spirituality" to it? It's weird because in the bible, people fasted from animal products to gain spirituality with god. So wouldn't nonvegan christians be glad vegans do that kind of fasting?
It really does sound psychotic, doesn't it? When actual carnivores hunt for their food there's nothing "spiritual" about it. It's simply just sustenance and survival.
Jesus did *not* "teach" veganism! He came to earth to teach his hearers about the good news of salvation through faith in Him and His sacrifice for sin on the cross. Jesus did not practice veganism either. Read the gospels and you will see that.
Please provide references. I've read/listened to the 66, HB texts many times, over many years, & veganism doesn't feature during the earthly/fleshy phase.
I heartily recommend Christspiracy, whatever religion you profess or if you profess no religion. This was one of the most well-done documentaries I have ever witnessed. They dealt fairly with all religions and gave compelling historical and biblical research into the true depths of the compassion of Jesus. I will be sharing it with others and most likely will recommend it in my book. Question: Is it available for purchase and download?
Hunter Theologian read the bible to see the one Commandment that say. " Thou Shall Not Kill." Murder is equated to humans, but killing cover everything living. 2ndly, the simplist fact, animals don't need tools to help/aid in their day to day living but humans depends on tool to survive. Animals, the majority of 'em are highly developed from day one. Human Babies after birth, still need to develop .... Also, going back to the Bible, God placed Adam and Eve in a garden and not a slaughterhouse.
Personally, being an absolute non-believer in any kind divine power or entities, all this religious talk always sounds like jibberish, even from a veganism's standpoint. And i mean no disrespect, i know these topics matter to some. However none of this changes the fact the guy is a hunter, and hunters are murderers, taking lives needlessly and to me that makes any benevolent religious, spiritual views/beliefs go straight out the window into the trash bin. I will not even give such individuals the benefit of the doubt as i have no tolerance when a being with moral agency willingly commits horrific acts.
Ive been vegetarian since 1970 and vegan since 1990. Of all my friends, I'm the only one who has never been in hospital, never tested positive for COVID, and can still say my choices are vindicated.
A truly (truly!) Enlighted person can not kill and eat meat or fish; impossible. Il this happens this person is not completely enlighted. Immagine if God is happy to kill a marvellous creature of his own...
He did. He killed all the creatures except two of each according to its kind. He also commanded animal sacrifice throughout the entire Old Testament and then human sacrifice in the new testament.
Arguing what Jesus might or might not have supported a couple of thousand years ago is no justification for cruelty today. If people try to use religion for justifying barbarism like animal agriculture, that is a problem with religion. I have no problem with faith but organised religion is merely some people trying to control the lives and actions of others.
If you're referring to the Old Testament then you've lost. The Old Testament is a joke, full of violence, cruelty and stupidity. Jesus was cool though.
I love this interesting topic. One thing that seems common sense to me is that a diet that is high in animal flesh animal, protein animal milk is very inflammatory and promotes disease where the opposite is true in plant based I’m definitely reducing my animal flash consumption for my health I can’t completely go 100% vegan just yet, but I’ll tell you I’m trying to get to 80%.
Thou shall not kill doesn't mean U can't kill an ant in your kitchen. It's drawing a distinction between human & non human. It means do not kill humans.
Is there a full version to this, it was cut off and it was getting juicy. Heard this argument for many years and glad to see it finally being aired on the big screen and in public. Times are changing and we are in the middle of a great awakening of consciousness on the planet. All glories to those protecting the sentient souls that are not able to protect themselves. Hare Krishna!
Its all in the essene gospel of peace. Peace book 1. He was vegan. He lived mostly sprouted grain bread. About the fish... They used to make bread in the shape of fish (think breast cancer logo). Its interpretation issues.
Does he support the hunting of humans by humans and cannibalism is my question. Quite hypocritical of a position the carnist has I bet if he disagree/disapprove.
Not interested in someone trying to bend the Bible to meet personal desires. Whether they ate them, God allowed animal sacrifice. Lamb was eaten and also served to the messengers. Some apostles were fishermen, and Jesus multiplied fish to feed thousands. You're grasping at straws to make an argument that serves no purpose.
Kameron said in the bible the real translation of fish may have been seaweed or relish. I think he said it on Simon Hill. Kameron said the bible said sacrifice is not what Jesus wanted but people did it because of the hardness of their hearts and to follow the surrounding culture. It doesn't mean that was god's original plan or what god wanted. What about verses such as the lion shall lay down with the lamb? Then why do modern christian not do sacrifices anymore? Because Jesus did away with it You missed the point of Kameron. He said the bible has mistranslations. Check out Christspiracy. It's some nonvegans who twist the bible because they like the taste of animal products. Didn't christians claim to be for compassion? Animal products are not needed. Gary Francione has been vegan for over 40 years. Watch BitesizeVegan on historical/ancient vegans which included christians. Watch the documentaries and doctors on Plant Based News. Watch Earthling Ed, BitesizeVegan, Joey Carbstrong, Lifting Vegan Logic, Humane Hancock Conserving Compassion, Vegan47, Gary Francione, Mel and Steve, and Gary Yourofsky. Watch Viva Longevity and Mic the Vegan.
You commented "serves no purpose". Serve no purpose? Trillions of animals are abused for food. That is no small thing. And some christians weaponize the bible as an excuse to continue that animal abuse. Example, in the egg industry male chicks are grind up alive cause they don't lay eggs. Animal products are also bad for health and the environment. So god told people to eat something bad for their health too?
The question is not whether Jesus ate meat; it's whether it is ok to eat of meat today considering the cruelty on factory farms; Would Jesus be ok with that. The answer is obvious.
@CynicalDude Yes but they still get transported and sent to the same slaughterhouses. Can you guarantee no suffering? If you could see what happens to those animals in those slaughterhouses would you then support it? If you can't give up completely at least cut right back. There are so many good alternatives today. Considering God allowed eating meat out of necessity following the flood , now we have an abundance.
Why did you finished the video there. Well, the murderer, in this case is probably right. About the feeding 5000 people story. It's reasonable, when you tell a story for the first time, explaining how it happened, to tell everything in detail. And then, when somebody is recalling the same story again, you will Not recount the whole story again... You will tell a short version of the same story. No conspiracy here... It's all Logical. So, we need more Reasonable explanation why the story includes fishes!
exactly. It refers to humans. There is another reference in the bible where God commands its people to treat their animals right but never says, do not kill the animals as He asked for animal sacrifices in the Old Testament.
I invite everyone to watch it. It is independent and this is evident. You will see subtle but beautifully made artistic touches (drawings) combined with thorough scientific research and some dangerous and shocking drone camera shots. Exposing people who are split and hypocritic and others who are violent by simply mirroring their incosistencies and lack of humane existence but without ever insulting them. The hidden secret revealed is something we intuitively all knew deep inside: Love is the answer ❤ and nothing can buy love. Thank you to everyone who participated (one way or another) in creating it.
@ no. Just like humans are food non human animals are not either. Read your Bible. Gods will is garden of Eden which is vegan. He made the world and said look after it and the creatures on it.
Of course Yeshua was vegan. In fact, he was fruitarian. He was brilliant, compassionate, spiritual. He lived with the Essenes who were fruitarian, during his teenage years. Read "The Essene Gospel of Peace". Yeshua also went to Asia where he studied with vegan Buddhists, and to Egypt where he studied in the ancient Egyptian mystery schools. He said, "Follow me!", meaning do as I do. He taught by example. But few humans even understand let alone follow him. There is more truth about Yeshua in the Apocrypha, and Gnostic Gospels, than in the conveniently much altered Bible. And ultimate truth about Yeshua and all else including the way to live is to be found in deep meditation. We are frugivores anatomically, physiologically, taxonomically. Our bodies are designed to eat fruit, with some nuts and seeds if desired. Fruitarianism is ultimate compassion, ethics, morality, decency, and intelligence, we don't harm any beings, animal or plant or microorganisms, or ourselves by defiliing our bodies, lives, souls, when we follow the diet we are designed for. And there are so many fruits it's incredible. Everything with a seed is a fruit, and such variety and all so delicious and nutritious in its natural state, never heated or frozen, and preferably organic. It's the purest way to live, it brings clarity and connection to our spiritual essence, the true God. It connects us most profoundly to Yeshua the Christos and the message he brought, which is the path to ascension. Idk if the majority of humans will ever comprehend let alone practice what Yeshua taught. Killing anything, or participating in killing by buying murdered animals, plants, or anything, keeps humans stupid, blind, brainwashed. Very sad and horrendous for all life on earth. The hunter in your video is an example of an educated moron. I am eager to see Christspiracy, and I see it's now available on TH-cam!!! ❤❤
The fact you wrote such a long comment about this is crazy. Simply the Bible tells us he ate fish. You also cannot take this video and documentary seriously, they are twisting scripture.
This is a bit of a silly debate isn’t it… Good film in the context of reframing our position on animal butchery in present civilisation, which may help untangle the mess we have inherited. But this debate is flawed because here we have a hunter who would like more people to follow his example and kill animals single handed, for their own consumption. This would clearly be unsustainable plus a biological and environmental catastrophe were more people to adopt it.
"They would have been debating..." Every truth is subject to distortion and hiding. St. Benedict came up with a set of rules for his monks and nuns. I was privileged to live in one of the monasteries for 6 months. And it should be clear that they are not allowed to eat meat. Full stop. Case closed. BUT guess what?!? Fish and chicken are vegetables for them. Incredible. So, yeah, definitely looking forward to watching Christspiracy. 🙏🏻 When I meditate, in my heart I see and feel Jeshua eating only plants.
Adan and Eve were fruitarians inside Eden. They became vegan after God expelled them outside paradise and learned to eat bread and the vegetation of the field. Noah was allowed to eat animals after the flood waters subsided even though there was at least one olive tree growing somewhere far away. During the 40 year wilderness trek the law Moses wrote down made a distinction between clean animals to eat and unclean animals. The animal sacrifices foreshadowed Christ's sacrifice and Jesus talked about symbolically eating his flesh and drinking his blood by exercising faith in him. The Bible says he declared all foods clean. A Christian was not supposed to eat meat if they knew it had been offered to the Roman gods. Mammon was a god mentioned in the Christian Greek scriptures. The modern day CAFO industry cares more about profit than about obeying the Bible principles of treating animals with compassion. Few people doubt that people who eat a modern day CAFO based diet are unhealthy and overweight especially in the USA. The CAFO industry doesn't care about the health of their neighbors but view us only as lost customers or lost money. Yet the apostle Paul said he would not eat meat anymore if that would save the weak conscience of his Christian brother.
In Bible times the animals and fish were pasture raised or wild. They lived natural healthy lives. Mercury poisoning didn't exist back then. Yet today he has the ability to heal earth of toxic chemicals. He cursed at least two fig trees. This shows that not all imperfect plants are worth blessing. He talked about unsuitable fish. Revelation talks about the death of one third of fish. Jesus said he would put to death or kill the Jezebel's children of adultery. I admit Revelation talks in symbolic language. Jesus was not vegan.
What I love about Srimad Bhagavatam and Bahagavad Gita is that there are very clear about many things that the Bible cannot answer. That debate is such a waste of time.
@9:28 We're not here to debate the Essenes, but the Jesus movement. Besides, he's referring to the documents discovered near Qumran, which we are of uncertain origen. The Essenes were wandering hermits, and probably didn't live at Qumran, based on the fact that what we know of these two peoples seems at odds with each other. The Essenes and Qumran Community are a red herring. Jones simply doesn't have a rebuttal.
The question should be : would Jesus be vegan if he was alive today? That should be the question. And I think he would. Because he was all about doing the right thing. And at that time people didn’t know any better, they never thought about it, because, frankly everyone was pretty ignorant about issues such as this. It was a very simplistic, rudimentar society, so that was not at the top of the list of priorities, im afraid. But today there’s no excuse to be a meat eater, unless you live up in the far north, where you can’t plant anything to eat. But why would anyone live that far, in that inhospitable environment anyway? No excuse. We’re intelligent, capable of making a decision such as this. There’s no discussion. Eating meat is morally wrong. Period.
In Christspiracy, it translates that Jesus was a Nazarene. That didn't mean he came from Nazareth, but he practised a philosophy that was vegan. Evidently, Nazareth isn't a place at all.
If Paul was the one saying it was ok to eat meat and the writers of the gospels were followers of Paul, then of course they wouldn't report that Jesus didn't eat meat. The religion should be call Pauline since all the churches arising from this history took Paul as the final arbiter of what Jesus "meant."
@@haileyh8340 Yeah... I found it, but thanks. I just don't understand why it sharply cuts off without mentioning that we should go watch the rest of it on the other channel. It literally just dumps on us, and seems unprofessional. So, half-hearted it makes me think their heart isn't in this. Where is their passion? This feels like they didn't even try. In fact, they didn't even bother to create their own introduction or explain why it's appearing on their channel for. They literally plagarized her intro sequence, and just cut and pasted it. This is not professional work, and I expect better.
@5:05 You don't even need to look any further than the New Testament to find this evidence, either. It's right there in Paul's epistles. Paul flat out admits that he's at odds with the Jesus movement, on this topic. He flat tells us that the movement was a vegetarian movement before he came along. Paul is telling us in the first century that the Jesus movement was vegetarian.
I'll watch the full debate. I'm between the 2. I'm a Christian, I don't eat meat, but I don't think it's a sin unless doing so would offend your conscience. I've seen the factory farming footage so for me, it would be wrong. I'd like to know if Kam believes in the Deity of Christ and the resurrection of Christ. Not sure if he still considers himself mainline Christian,.
Why even use the Bible as a moral authority when it condones killing someone for picking up sticks on the sabbath? Or eternal torment for someone who by chance wasn’t raised in a Christian society and failed to have the “right” beliefs? (Mostly aimed at evangelical beliefs - I’m a good boy and read Bart ehrman) I was raised Christian and escaped through philosophy. The big realization was that there was no good reason to think this character perfect. Miracles don’t do it - they just make you powerful. Dying for someone doesn’t do it either. Plenty of imperfect people have died for others in battle And also - if this character really watches over us, what does that even mean? Like he watched over his people during the holocaust? I think I’d rather not be watched over thanks Also, Jesus seemed quite ok with killing people who lied about their donations to the church (Ananias and Sephora)- so to think he wouldn’t mind tearing into a steak doesn’t seem like a stretch to me
Fruit is another word for Spirit. that’s when we have crucified our flesh, and we now live out our identity/Christ on earth/unconditional love. Unclean is representation when we’re living in the flesh/ego/serpent and has nothing to do with meat It’s when we’re living in sin/not living out our identity on earth. Not living in Christ. Dominion over the animals is an expression to have control of your body living in love living out Christ it has nothing to do with animals. Luke 17:21 everything is within. Col 2:27 this is a shadow of what’s to come. Prov 23:7 as a man thinketh he is. It’s a moment by moment basis. Gal 6:7 you reap what you sow. that’s why people who eat meat die earlier than people that eat fresh raw plant-based foods.
The fact that you have to DEBATE what GOD says, is proof that nobody knows what God says, and pretending that you know what God says, is the height of arrogance.
I have been going through the Bible again recently - chapters and chapters goD requiring sacrifice - for very specific cases and done in a very specific details. Rivers of blood to be thrown at walls, meat being then burned. And explicitly explaining which parts go to the priests families. Great reading of the Bible by a fellow vegan atheists I love: www.youtube.com/@FriendlyAtheist1
The original version of the “Feeding of the Multitude” story only refers to bread, not bread with fish. “Fish” apparently got added to some gospel verses later on. If you look at other accounts of the same incident, for example, at the Early Church Fathers, who also talk about these stories, Irenaeus mentions the feeding of the 5,000. Eusebius also mentions that, and Arnobius, another early church writer also discusses Jesus’ feeding of the multitude, the miraculous feeding of the multitude. Iraneus lived during the Second Century and described in detail the Miracle of the Multitude being feed with bread. No mention whatsoever of fish. Eusebius and Arnobius also never mention ‘fishes with the loaves’, only the loaves. In fact, if you even look at the New Testament, it says, at another point, when Jesus is talking about the feeding of the five thousand, he says, ‘Do you not yet perceive? Do you not remember the five loaves for the five thousand, and how many baskets you gathered?’ (Matthew 16:9). And he doesn’t mention the fish... You should also keep in mind that the fish was a well known mystical symbol. The Greek word for fish (Ichthys) was used as an acronym whose initials in Greek stood for ‘Jesus Christ, Son of God, Savior. In any case, “It’s not where you’ve been; it’s where you’re going,” as the saying goes. Many of us have changed our diets upon adopting a spiritual path or converting to a new religion. While several of the disciples are described as having been fisherman, and there are clearly a few references to fish in the New Testament gospels, we find Jesus saying to his new friends: “Come, follow Me and I will make you fishers of men [fishers of people, souls,].” (Matthew 4:19, Mark 1:17) So rather than remaining fisherman, perhaps operating an imagined Jesus Fish Company of Galilee - some sort of lifelong career as fisherman, in other words - RATHER THAN THAT - what we do find is those individuals adopting a new spiritual path, being transformed into disciples and eventually even becoming spiritual teachers. The carnistic premise or bias of the Western church tradition about eating meat is really based on European dietary customs, but they have made use of a couple of verses from the orthodox New Testament in order to reinforce their already established preference for eating meat. Scriptures that are associated with Paul are those that evolved into the Roman church. For the followers of Paul, dropping the meatless dietary requirement of the Jesus Movement was a way to make it easier to get more converts around the Roman Empire. The orthodox religions of the world have always had a great way to rig the curriculum and manipulate history (practice revisionist history). They suppress the evidence, ban/burn books and even whole libraries (Ebionite gospels, compassionate vegan verses, gnostic mystical texts, etc) and then they shout: “Hey! Where’s the evidence?” The original Jesus Movement or Hebrew Christians (sometimes called Aramaic Christians, Essenes, Ebionites or Nazoreans) with their gospels, the Gospels of the Hebrews and Ebionites describe a Pro-Veg ethos: Jesus and his Apostles who never consumed any flesh, a John the Baptist who ate carob (locust beans) - not bugs! and a rejection of ritual animal sacrifice, be it in pagan temples or the Jewish temple of Jerusalem. *“I have come to abolish the sacrifices, and if you cease not from sacrificing, my wrath will not cease from you.”* - Panarion 30.16.5 (Hebrew/Ebionite Gospel) *“Be on guard, so that your hearts do not become heavy with the eating of flesh and with the intoxication of wine and with the anxiety of the world, and that day come upon you suddenly; for as a snare it will come upon all who dwell upon the surface of the earth.”* - Luke 21:34, Evangelion Da-Mepharreshe (Old Syriac-Aramaic Manuscript) *"It is kindness that I want, not animal sacrifices.”* - Matthew 9:13 *“James, the brother of the Lord was holy from his mothers womb; and he drank no wine nor strong drink, nor did he eat flesh.”* - Hegesippus, quoted in The Church History of Eusebius, book 2, chapter 23
@@VerdantJedi l believe that Jesus would have eaten fish and even meat growing up but became vegetarian when he was Christ. He was against animal sacrifices in the worship of God.
@@VerdantJediWhy do you have to say sooo much. Simply Jesus did eat fish. However, if what you said is true, explain John 21:6 where Jesus tells the disciples to throw their net to the other side of the boat where they hauled in a great number of fish. Do you think that the disciples caught algae? Bread? Vegetables? Fruits?
Jesus was vegetarian. He was an Essene. His followers for the first 300 years were the Essenes, until they were all slaughtered. They were all vegetarians. He spent most of his life and time in India where the culture is vegetarian. This is so blatantly obvious that i can't believe we even have this discussion anymore.
I've been on a strict plant based diet for 40 years. I'm 70 and look 50 and I feel great. Also, there's such no thing as the easter bunny, santa clause, god, and jesus. If you're smart, you'll vote blue.
Awesome! I've been strict plantbased for two years (age 52) and am experiencing remarkable health for first time in my life, looking forward to rest of my life now that I know decrepitude is not inevitable. Sincere good luck for the election. Literally and sincerely hoping for a blue sky outcome
Hate to be 'that guy' in the comments but...who cares? I feel like I might have cared about this about 20 years ago... In the absence of convincing moral arguments for animal rights, in the absence of the 2012 Cambridge Declaration on Consciousness, in the absence of the overwhelming amount of nutritional and environmental science...I guess this discussion would be interesting in that information vacuum. It just feels like they're arguing about the linen count on a dollar bill.
@@vioheubach3112 With all the good arguments for veganism, many of which have become clearer and clearer over the past 20 years, "Jesus was vegan" seems like a profoundly weak argument. In the absence of better arguments, "Jesus was vegan" might have sufficed.
Man on left You have lost the plot. You don’t understand the message of the Bible. If you did you will not argue in that way. Man on right understands the Bible. The statement that EVERYTHING that creeps will serve as meat for you is very clear. Command was given to Noah when he and family came out of the Ark after the flood and there was no vegetation so they had to eat the animals to survive. Animal sacrifices for the Jews started on the night they were liberated from Egypt. The Passover lamb was slaughtered on Nisan 14 and the blood was splashed on the doors of Israelites so when the angel of death visited he will not kill their firstborn but all the firstborn of Egyptians were killed. That began the practice of animal sacrifices. And it continued until Christ came because Jesus was the real sacrificial lamb that took away the sin of the world. It should cease then but stubborn Jews refused to believe that Jesus came and died as a sacrificial lamb to take away the sin of the world. Jesus fed 5000 people with five loaves and two FISHES. That is clearly stated. One of Jesus disciples was a fisherman. The Jews did not eat certain animals because the LAW God gave them when Moses went up the mountain forbade eating CERTAIN animals which were considered unclean for certain reasons. One of which was the pig sold in the market for food. Not because it was sacrificed to false gods but more specifically because it was one of the animals forbidden by the Mosaic law.
If you believe Noah actually happened then how did kangaroos and koalas get on the boat? So why did every other animal have to die? Also 2 of every animal means that each animal bred with its sister or brother. So many things wrong with that.
@ it gets worse. Only 3-4 couples to repopulate the entire world. Inbreeding yet again. Also were there only 8 people worth saving on the entire planet? or did innocent people ? And what about all the other Christians at the time? 😹
As soon as sinned was introduced meat eating was introduced as a way to not waste the animal that has to be sacrificed as a sin offering. We will go back to being raw vegan in heaven because in heaven, there will be no more death or suffering of any kind. Also God gave Noah and his family permission to eat meat because at the time there wasnt an abundance of vegetation right after the flood. Which is why the people in the dessert were eating what angels eat honey wafers no meat but people wanted their meat and God begrudgingly gave them what they wanted but the meat made them very sick. 1 Corinthians 1 (KJV) ²⁶ For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called: ²⁷ But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
Yeah as we mentioned in the caption this is a reshare of an older video. But we shared now in order to coincide with the online streaming release of Christspiracy - now available since 1st November.
1 minute in I'm already like "This vegan!" Yeah man, in the beginning, in the Garden of Eden, God himself killed an animal to make clothes for Adam and Eve. Was Jesus a vegan? Maybe, but he had no problem feeding people fish. God even told Peter in Acts 10 "What God has made clean, do not call common." Probably out of context since God was saying that his grace is for even the Gentiles - not just the Jews. I still don't think God would tell him to kill and eat animals if God didn't want people to eat animals. "If you look at all of Scripture..." Yeah, did you? I'm not saying you can't be vegan; eat what you want. I think God cares more about your heart than any rules you follow.
So fig leaves is an animal.??? Go to the originals. Maybe do some research. The original sin has nothing to do with fruit. A & E transgressed by killing an animal. They fell for the promises of the Old Testament blood cult gods. Like Yah we (Anu), Molech, etc.
@@beachbaby7 Read Genesis 3. Nothing about A&E killing an animal. However: 3:21 'Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.' Also, A&E preceded the OT gods.
Lev 3:17, Lev 7:22-27 and Lev 17. Read and study. No blood no fat. There was sacrificial services of animals. Without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sin. Heb 9:22 significant of the blood of the Lamb, Jesus. After the flood the was no vegetation. God permitted man to eat animals. However God knew what would happen to man while continuing to eat animals. Man's stature was greater that man today. Adam and Eve were at least 15ft or more. As time went on man's height decreased. Don't just read the Bible study.
A lot of people go through a lot of mental gymnastics just to not give up their vices.
Genesis 1:29
Then God said, “I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food.
Case closed!
Made up stories read the comments from the first guy
Yep 100% and in the new Jerusalem the lion will lay down with the lamb . However after sin entered into man the eating of meat began. Remember when the children of Israel wandered 40 yrs in the wilderness God gave them manna and interestingly Quail
@@sircorkysriley4904 "Quail" ancient Hebrew Selaw "To be fat", it does not mean a literal bird. Mana (Man is derived), ancient Sanskrit, "thinking mind". I'm sure you can work it out.
The lion and the lamb are psychological aspects of the mind, a lion cannot eat plants. Multiple conflicting aspects of the psychology at peace.
@@ShawnDarlinghalibutfisherman How do you know that guy knows anything. Do some real research Yourself! Jesus' real name was most probably Radamere, and he most likely was born in Russia. But there is so much evidence that he lived and taught the world how to leave the matrix and attach to Source. Also, how to heal with a touch and overcome the dark ones in spiritual battles. Get busy participating in right action! Be useful!
Sure a lion can eat plants, plant proteins, and fruits. That is misinformation. Research people that have super healthy cats and feed them no meat. Meat is dirty, filthy protein for any being to consume.
Setting aside religion, the answers are obvious: if violence, abuse and murder are unnecessary, and you still choose to commit them or pay for them to be done, you're doing something unethical/evil. Humans don't need animal products to live and be healthy, and thus animal ag, and buying animal products, are both unnecessary and wrong.
"Humans don't need animal products to live and be healthy"
Incorrect.
When animals are put in concentration camps then murdered all the hate pain and anguish they feel goes into the meat that you eat. That's why meat eaters get so angry when you tell them that it's not good to eat it. How anyone could kill a beautiful sentient beings is beyond me.
Beautifully spoken, Angela Hill
To be fair, part of what we're witnessing is the discomfort of "being accused" (scare quotes because Kam isn't accusing anything, but he doesn't sit in the seat of questionable behavior). We approach veganism with wonder but we defend our accepted lifestyles and culture with a chip on our shoulder, especially because it's usually our mothers who fed us our first meat.
😭😭😭
"Dissosiation, wen the thruth you belive is deliting: The First Book in The Bible 🤔
You can feel the anger energy from the meat eater vs the peaceful graceful energy of the vegan. That's enough for me to know the truth.
Most tiben monks eat meat, especially yak and are some of the most peaceful, kind, intelligent, and compassionate people I know. You can't reduce a person's temperment to diet.
If people eat meat to get their nutrition rather than supplements, that's their choice, not everybody wants to live off supplements.
Imagine if they come out with synthetic food you can live off of instead of killing plants and insects, and someone said you're not vegan beause you don't wanna live of nutritional slop like you escaped the matrix.
I respect vegans a lot, but it's not cool to expect everybody to live of supplements rather than food. I personally am pesco-vegetarian, and among the seventh day adventist my diet has a lower hazard ratio than a vegan or vegetarian diet. I'm not sacrificing my life for animals, I'm sorry, you do you though.
@@adim00lah The only supplement that is needed is b12 because it comes from the soil bacteria and we wash our produce. Animals in the livestock industry get the majority of b12 supplements because they get don't hardly go outside anymore. Aside from that, all 20 amino acids and the 2 essential fats ALA and LA come from plants. Why do we need fishmeat or other meats?
@@lifeisagift5627 I was vegan for 4 years. Those 4 years I was the most angry of all my life. I have my personal experience and that is enough to know the truth for me.
@@11235Aodh Ala is not easily converted in to dha/epa. I recommend you take some algae oil for omega 3. The conversion is somewhere around 2-10% of ala gets converted to dha. So you would need to consume super high amounts to hit your rda which is unreasonable for most people.
The seventh day adventists have a lot of vegans and vegetarians in their population. People consider them to be a blue zone. But the longest living sda's are pesco-vegetarians, they have a lower hazard ratio for all causes of moretality than vegans or vegetarians.
@@adim00lah Sorry, the only sources that claim this are the ones selling or profiting from it. I rather listen to dr. mcDougall and dr. Peter Rogers in this case. Even dr. M. Klaper flip flops on the subject and is unclear. There is zero evidence that we poorly convert ALA, what did all those inland tribes of the past do to cope i wonder without fish or flax.
Genesis 1:29 Is and was the standard of eating. Meat was given AfTER sin -not only cuz there was no trees but also shorten sinners life. As Adventist we believe we are living in the end times and our diet should reflect heaven bound mindset-No animal consumption.
That's so interesting - thanks for contributing ❤️
But so sad not many knew that
Jesus wants us to have stewardship with animals🥺🙏💚🫂🐮🐷🐔🐇🐟🐝🐑❤️❤️❤️ be kind to all animals be vegan 😊🙏💚🐥
I’m Jewish and have read the first five books of Torah. In Genesis, when my people were wondering the desert, we ate something called “mana” which I am not sure what this actually was but it wasn’t meat. There was a rumbling amongst some of the Israelites to eat meat. But G-d really didn’t want them eating meat but the complaints were so loud that He provided birds to fly overhead- these men killed the birds and ate till they were very full. Soon afterwards they all died. I take this as an admonition that G-d did NOT want us to eat flesh food. Later my people clamored to eat meat again and G-d relented and gave very specific methods and ways to eat meat and what kinds, etc. But to me - allowing us to eat flesh foods is not the same as considering what G-d’s original will is and how we each choose to follow His will or to go our own way. It is my feeling that regardless of what is written later on as Joshua (Jesus) comes onto the scene, God’s intention was that we shouldn’t kill period - not animals or human beings - straight across the board. My opinion only. ❤❤❤
Thank you!
Manna is the spiritual bread from heaven. It's the understanding that comes from the higher mind.
The desert is meditation.
The Holy Land is the right side/hemisphere of the brain. It's not a physical place.
@ Beautiful interpretation. Love this. Thank you. 😊💕💗
@@sherylsankey1793 You're welcome 🙂
i've read manna is poo from mealy worms. I was in church recently when the teacher insisted God provided Quails. She said he could have provided anything. This, she said, meant we can eat anything we want. She didn't mention they all got sick an died. Nor that YHWH was fed up of their grumbling for flesh, a bad habit they picked up from egypt.
Meat eaters are so angry,
Control your fear adrenaline consumed in all that fear induced death there Tony
That is soooo true!! Meat eaters consume the fear frequency of the animals they eat. Not to mention their diseases. It's vampiric. 🤢
I'm totally at peace, as a (Christian) WF omnivore. WFPB didn't suit my physiology but a worthwhile experience.
@@Unmasking_Viandalisme - Physiology doesn't answer the question, "How would Jesus slaughter an animal?"
@@raykowalchuk3812 Jesus was God incarnate (Isaiah 9:6). He could will an animal to die, just as no surgery req'd to make the blind see. He wasn't an AR, vegan hippie!
Eden was vegan and heaven will be vegan, case closed. Everything in the middle of the book had been screwed up by failed men.
Nice 😊
Agreed! And with some decoding skill and research, it becomes very apparent that the trespass in the garden was Adam & Eve killing and eating an animal.
"Written by failed men" to justify their failures.
It has not been "screwed" but permitted by God. You consider only the beginning and the ending of a book?
@@hamerful Sure, thing, do you really think God oversaw everything written in the bible? How about the books taken out by monks in the middle ages? Also overseen? Did these people just die when they did something wrong or was there a thunderbolt or did the pages magically disappear? People didn't lie any less than they do today.
Would Jesus choose to violently exploit the body of another sentient being, when there is no need?
Of course not.
Thanks for your hard work.
Being vegan is good for your health, the earth, and the animals.
I recently read from a bible scholar that in the loaves and fishes story, the "fish"were actually dried seaweed a diet staple for that community.
Why would any good and benevolent god put sentient beings on this earth capable of fear, joy, love just to have them killed for a snack we don't need? It doesn't compute.
So the way I look at it is this: the New Covenant Commandment from Jesus was to love others as He loved us. For me, this has included veganism as an outward expression of that Love. I leave animals and animal secretions off my plate because I am in love. At every meal, I am telling my own self, the animals, other people and the earthly habitat at large that I love them.
I am also vegan. But you have misunderstood Jesus' commands about love. Fine, I get that you love animals and don't want to eat them, but Jesus came to earth to *save people,* not animals.
The "new" covenant is not Jesus's teachings. The new covenant is found in Jeremiah 31:33. A lot of people instead of studying the work of Christ they just read the "New Testament". Reading is not studying
@@hamerful The New Covenant came after the cross. You are right, it is not teachings, it is Eternal Life generated through the Faith which Jesus alone provides. Because He first loved us, and has allowed us to know His Love, indwelling in the Holy Spirit, we can love others. All others... animals, environment, people, self, and the Lord Jesus Himself. We love because it is a natural response to His Love.
@@judylloyd7901 You are right. He came for human beings. Animals needed no saving; they did not choose what Adam chose. If you really want to know more about animals and the Kingdom of God, watch Jack Van Impe's work Animals In Heaven. I do not care for most of his stuff, but that program is 777% true.
@@brightbite The New Covenant was announced to prophet Jeremiah, though never revealed how would it happen.
Jesus was an ascetic and did not participate in butchery or farming. He subsisted through alms and also frequently fasted. He would likely be disgusted by the excess, indulgence, and depravity of modern day animal factory farming. And I think he would be especially disgusted with fast food joints being on every corner while billions of people were still starving and homeless.
Jesus was certainly *not* an ascetic! His enemies called Him a "glutton and a drunkard." Of course, He wasn't either of those, but because He didn't *fast,* as they did, and as John the Baptist did, they slanderously accused Him of the opposite.
I agree.
@@judylloyd7901Of course his enemies would say that, wouldn't they?
I don't believe in any god, but I now think Jesus was an animal liberator and was killed for it. he was a human like us all
Jesus was killed because the Jewish religious leaders wanted Him dead because they were envious of His popularity, and because He exposed their evil hearts. They hated Him for that!
Jesus came to earth to save people! He never had any plan or programme to "liberate animals."
And Jesus was God in human flesh, so He wasn't just like us, because He never sinned, but lived a perfect life -- the only one who ever satisfied God's requirements 😊😊😊
The HB narrative makes it very clear that Jesus was God incarnate, so yer kinda contradicting y'self.
The biblical Jesus certainly wasn't an AR, vegan hippie.
I agree.
Vegan Hellenic Pagan here, so fascinating to see others who also intertwine veganism with their personal religion. Ethics is definitely my biggest motivator and in my practice, any blood spilled is spiritual pollution and the best way to connect with the holy aspect of nature is not to desecrate it for selfish pursuits. Most meat eaters I met were Christian, so it's extremely refreshing to see one arguing against the notion!
There are some pagans who believe in using or sacrificing animals too. And make art about it. Or use animal parts to make things like art.
There were ancient vegan christians and in the bible.
Watch BitesizeVegan on historical/ancient vegans.
The Seven Days Adventists try to avoid animal products. I think they were the reason for one blue zone too.
The blue zones have the longest lived people.
Watch Rich Roll on the blue zones.
The man who investigated the blue zones for years said it convinced him to eat plant based.
I think because Christians also worship the Old Testament blood and death cult gods.
Why does he get so angry like he is frustrated at the questions 🤬😂
Because he knows in his heart that it's wrong. He's like any addict who will defend their alcohol or drug dependency in exactly the same way.
@@EL-gu8fvBecause their twisting scripture.
This hunter spiritual way of butchering sounds like Hannibal Lecter. He thinks it’s spiritual to butcher. How many friends does have?
I understand people liking the taste of animal products but why tac on a weird or psycho and fake "spirituality" to it?
It's weird because in the bible, people fasted from animal products to gain spirituality with god. So wouldn't nonvegan christians be glad vegans do that kind of fasting?
It really does sound psychotic, doesn't it?
When actual carnivores hunt for their food there's nothing "spiritual" about it. It's simply just sustenance and survival.
Jesus taught veganism ❤️🦁🐑
Jesus did *not* "teach" veganism! He came to earth to teach his hearers about the good news of salvation through faith in Him and His sacrifice for sin on the cross.
Jesus did not practice veganism either. Read the gospels and you will see that.
@@judylloyd7901I'm surprised that some people indeed believe what he wrote 🤦and giving likes
Please provide references. I've read/listened to the 66, HB texts many times, over many years, & veganism doesn't feature during the earthly/fleshy phase.
I'm not letting any God or other figure decide whether I should eat animals or not. I'm deciding for myself to not eat meat.
I heartily recommend Christspiracy, whatever religion you profess or if you profess no religion. This was one of the most well-done documentaries I have ever witnessed. They dealt fairly with all religions and gave compelling historical and biblical research into the true depths of the compassion of Jesus. I will be sharing it with others and most likely will recommend it in my book. Question: Is it available for purchase and download?
Where did you watch it? I looked some weeks ago and couldn't find it anywhere
@@bryanbadonde9484 I did a search and it took me to their official site.
It’s unbiblical, lots of twisting of Bible scripture.
Hunter Theologian read the bible to see the one Commandment that say. " Thou Shall Not Kill." Murder is equated to humans, but killing cover everything living. 2ndly, the simplist fact, animals don't need tools to help/aid in their day to day living but humans depends on tool to survive. Animals, the majority of 'em are highly developed from day one. Human Babies after birth, still need to develop .... Also, going back to the Bible, God placed Adam and Eve in a garden and not a slaughterhouse.
Exodus 20 (KJV):
'13 Thou shalt not kill.'
.. but..
'24 An altar of earth thou shalt make unto me, and shalt sacrifice thereon thy burnt offerings, and thy peace offerings, thy sheep, and thine oxen.. '
Personally, being an absolute non-believer in any kind divine power or entities, all this religious talk always sounds like jibberish, even from a veganism's standpoint. And i mean no disrespect, i know these topics matter to some. However none of this changes the fact the guy is a hunter, and hunters are murderers, taking lives needlessly and to me that makes any benevolent religious, spiritual views/beliefs go straight out the window into the trash bin. I will not even give such individuals the benefit of the doubt as i have no tolerance when a being with moral agency willingly commits horrific acts.
Ive been vegetarian since 1970 and vegan since 1990. Of all my friends, I'm the only one who has never been in hospital, never tested positive for COVID, and can still say my choices are vindicated.
Great debate. Bread in the bible can be referring to just food in general
Genesis 9:3 Every moving animal that is alive may serve as food for you. Just as I gave you the green vegetation, I give them all to you.
A truly (truly!) Enlighted person can not kill and eat meat or fish; impossible. Il this happens this person is not completely enlighted.
Immagine if God is happy to kill a marvellous creature of his own...
He did. He killed all the creatures except two of each according to its kind. He also commanded animal sacrifice throughout the entire Old Testament and then human sacrifice in the new testament.
If Paul was the one who said eating meat was fine, and the writers of the gospels were following Paul. T
Why was Christ crucified? The same carnist culture that dominates today is the force that crucified him.
It makes no sense to me that if a god created all life on earth, then why allow one creature to destroy everything including the planet they live on?
Arguing what Jesus might or might not have supported a couple of thousand years ago is no justification for cruelty today. If people try to use religion for justifying barbarism like animal agriculture, that is a problem with religion. I have no problem with faith but organised religion is merely some people trying to control the lives and actions of others.
If you're referring to the Old Testament then you've lost. The Old Testament is a joke, full of violence, cruelty and stupidity. Jesus was cool though.
I love this interesting topic. One thing that seems common sense to me is that a diet that is high in animal flesh animal, protein animal milk is very inflammatory and promotes disease where the opposite is true in plant based I’m definitely reducing my animal flash consumption for my health I can’t completely go 100% vegan just yet, but I’ll tell you I’m trying to get to 80%.
Kam needs to do more debates he is incredibly sharp and knowledgeable
Thou shall not kill doesn't mean U can't kill an ant in your kitchen. It's drawing a distinction between human & non human. It means do not kill humans.
No, murder means humans.
Is there a full version to this, it was cut off and it was getting juicy. Heard this argument for many years and glad to see it finally being aired on the big screen and in public. Times are changing and we are in the middle of a great awakening of consciousness on the planet. All glories to those protecting the sentient souls that are not able to protect themselves. Hare Krishna!
Its all in the essene gospel of peace. Peace book 1. He was vegan. He lived mostly sprouted grain bread. About the fish... They used to make bread in the shape of fish (think breast cancer logo). Its interpretation issues.
Does he support the hunting of humans by humans and cannibalism is my question. Quite hypocritical of a position the carnist has I bet if he disagree/disapprove.
3 minute long intro that you start wondering if it's a loop and if this entire video is going to be a loop
actual video starts at 3:13
Just be kind and fare, go vegan
Not interested in someone trying to bend the Bible to meet personal desires. Whether they ate them, God allowed animal sacrifice. Lamb was eaten and also served to the messengers. Some apostles were fishermen, and Jesus multiplied fish to feed thousands. You're grasping at straws to make an argument that serves no purpose.
Kameron said in the bible the real translation of fish may have been seaweed or relish. I think he said it on Simon Hill.
Kameron said the bible said sacrifice is not what Jesus wanted but people did it because of the hardness of their hearts and to follow the surrounding culture. It doesn't mean that was god's original plan or what god wanted.
What about verses such as the lion shall lay down with the lamb?
Then why do modern christian not do sacrifices anymore?
Because Jesus did away with it
You missed the point of Kameron. He said the bible has mistranslations.
Check out Christspiracy.
It's some nonvegans who twist the bible because they like the taste of animal products.
Didn't christians claim to be for compassion?
Animal products are not needed.
Gary Francione has been vegan for over 40 years.
Watch BitesizeVegan on historical/ancient vegans which included christians.
Watch the documentaries and doctors on Plant Based News.
Watch Earthling Ed, BitesizeVegan, Joey Carbstrong, Lifting Vegan Logic, Humane Hancock Conserving Compassion, Vegan47, Gary Francione, Mel and Steve, and Gary Yourofsky.
Watch Viva Longevity and Mic the Vegan.
You commented "serves no purpose". Serve no purpose? Trillions of animals are abused for food. That is no small thing.
And some christians weaponize the bible as an excuse to continue that animal abuse.
Example, in the egg industry male chicks are grind up alive cause they don't lay eggs.
Animal products are also bad for health and the environment.
So god told people to eat something bad for their health too?
The theologian wants to kill and feel good about killing so badly.
If your excuse is, you do it because someone else did. First off, your action and your choice. Also shows you copy others and not think for yourself.
The question is not whether Jesus ate meat; it's whether it is ok to eat of meat today considering the cruelty on factory farms; Would Jesus be ok with that. The answer is obvious.
Of course not. Personally I get a lot of meat from local farms.
@CynicalDude Yes but they still get transported and sent to the same slaughterhouses. Can you guarantee no suffering? If you could see what happens to those animals in those slaughterhouses would you then support it? If you can't give up completely at least cut right back. There are so many good alternatives today. Considering God allowed eating meat out of necessity following the flood , now we have an abundance.
@ Since before the flood we were allowed. We also cull animals at home ourselves. It’s not a problem.
Why did you finished the video there.
Well, the murderer, in this case is probably right. About the feeding 5000 people story.
It's reasonable, when you tell a story for the first time, explaining how it happened, to tell everything in detail. And then, when somebody is recalling the same story again, you will Not recount the whole story again... You will tell a short version of the same story. No conspiracy here... It's all Logical.
So, we need more Reasonable explanation why the story includes fishes!
"Thou shalt not kill" was referring to murder. Obviously, since God instigated animal sacrifice.
Stop twisting scripture!!
exactly. It refers to humans. There is another reference in the bible where God commands its people to treat their animals right but never says, do not kill the animals as He asked for animal sacrifices in the Old Testament.
I invite everyone to watch it. It is independent and this is evident. You will see subtle but beautifully made artistic touches (drawings) combined with thorough scientific research and some dangerous and shocking drone camera shots. Exposing people who are split and hypocritic and others who are violent by simply mirroring their incosistencies and lack of humane existence but without ever insulting them. The hidden secret revealed is something we intuitively all knew deep inside: Love is the answer ❤ and nothing can buy love. Thank you to everyone who participated (one way or another) in creating it.
It’s so sick and twisted he says it’s spirituals to kill animals. So mental
Not at all, we’re thankful to God for the food he provides.
@ he provides all plants we need to not eat the animals he told us to look after
@@veganix6757Plants and animals. Thats what food is
@ no. Just like humans are food non human animals are not either. Read your Bible. Gods will is garden of Eden which is vegan. He made the world and said look after it and the creatures on it.
Of course Yeshua was vegan. In fact, he was fruitarian. He was brilliant, compassionate, spiritual. He lived with the Essenes who were fruitarian, during his teenage years. Read "The Essene Gospel of Peace". Yeshua also went to Asia where he studied with vegan Buddhists, and to Egypt where he studied in the ancient Egyptian mystery schools. He said, "Follow me!", meaning do as I do. He taught by example. But few humans even understand let alone follow him. There is more truth about Yeshua in the Apocrypha, and Gnostic Gospels, than in the conveniently much altered Bible. And ultimate truth about Yeshua and all else including the way to live is to be found in deep meditation. We are frugivores anatomically, physiologically, taxonomically. Our bodies are designed to eat fruit, with some nuts and seeds if desired. Fruitarianism is ultimate compassion, ethics, morality, decency, and intelligence, we don't harm any beings, animal or plant or microorganisms, or ourselves by defiliing our bodies, lives, souls, when we follow the diet we are designed for. And there are so many fruits it's incredible. Everything with a seed is a fruit, and such variety and all so delicious and nutritious in its natural state, never heated or frozen, and preferably organic. It's the purest way to live, it brings clarity and connection to our spiritual essence, the true God. It connects us most profoundly to Yeshua the Christos and the message he brought, which is the path to ascension. Idk if the majority of humans will ever comprehend let alone practice what Yeshua taught. Killing anything, or participating in killing by buying murdered animals, plants, or anything, keeps humans stupid, blind, brainwashed. Very sad and horrendous for all life on earth. The hunter in your video is an example of an educated moron. I am eager to see Christspiracy, and I see it's now available on TH-cam!!! ❤❤
waffle
This "Jesus lives with the buddhists" is a debunked myth.
What gospels can I find that describe yeshua going to Asia and Egypt?
I’m a gnostic
The fact you wrote such a long comment about this is crazy. Simply the Bible tells us he ate fish.
You also cannot take this video and documentary seriously, they are twisting scripture.
Wow, now we fight about what someone did 2000 years ago. I couldn't care less.
Tony jones was severely outmatched, wonderful to see his logical fallacy exposed!
since empathy we've been beating around the bush, and now is the time
This is a bit of a silly debate isn’t it… Good film in the context of reframing our position on animal butchery in present civilisation, which may help untangle the mess we have inherited. But this debate is flawed because here we have a hunter who would like more people to follow his example and kill animals single handed, for their own consumption. This would clearly be unsustainable plus a biological and environmental catastrophe were more people to adopt it.
"They would have been debating..."
Every truth is subject to distortion and hiding.
St. Benedict came up with a set of rules for his monks and nuns. I was privileged to live in one of the monasteries for 6 months. And it should be clear that they are not allowed to eat meat. Full stop. Case closed.
BUT guess what?!? Fish and chicken are vegetables for them. Incredible.
So, yeah, definitely looking forward to watching Christspiracy. 🙏🏻
When I meditate, in my heart I see and feel Jeshua eating only plants.
Jesus was part of the essenes sect, and the essenes were 100% vegans.
Adan and Eve were fruitarians inside Eden. They became vegan after God expelled them outside paradise and learned to eat bread and the vegetation of the field. Noah was allowed to eat animals after the flood waters subsided even though there was at least one olive tree growing somewhere far away. During the 40 year wilderness trek the law Moses wrote down made a distinction between clean animals to eat and unclean animals. The animal sacrifices foreshadowed Christ's sacrifice and Jesus talked about symbolically eating his flesh and drinking his blood by exercising faith in him. The Bible says he declared all foods clean. A Christian was not supposed to eat meat if they knew it had been offered to the Roman gods. Mammon was a god mentioned in the Christian Greek scriptures. The modern day CAFO industry cares more about profit than about obeying the Bible principles of treating animals with compassion. Few people doubt that people who eat a modern day CAFO based diet are unhealthy and overweight especially in the USA. The CAFO industry doesn't care about the health of their neighbors but view us only as lost customers or lost money. Yet the apostle Paul said he would not eat meat anymore if that would save the weak conscience of his Christian brother.
Mammon is the god of money or riches.
In Bible times the animals and fish were pasture raised or wild. They lived natural healthy lives. Mercury poisoning didn't exist back then. Yet today he has the ability to heal earth of toxic chemicals. He cursed at least two fig trees. This shows that not all imperfect plants are worth blessing. He talked about unsuitable fish. Revelation talks about the death of one third of fish. Jesus said he would put to death or kill the Jezebel's children of adultery. I admit Revelation talks in symbolic language. Jesus was not vegan.
What I love about Srimad Bhagavatam and Bahagavad Gita is that there are very clear about many things that the Bible cannot answer. That debate is such a waste of time.
@9:28 We're not here to debate the Essenes, but the Jesus movement. Besides, he's referring to the documents discovered near Qumran, which we are of uncertain origen. The Essenes were wandering hermits, and probably didn't live at Qumran, based on the fact that what we know of these two peoples seems at odds with each other. The Essenes and Qumran Community are a red herring. Jones simply doesn't have a rebuttal.
The film maker won this argument!
The question should be : would Jesus be vegan if he was alive today? That should be the question. And I think he would. Because he was all about doing the right thing. And at that time people didn’t know any better, they never thought about it, because, frankly everyone was pretty ignorant about issues such as this. It was a very simplistic, rudimentar society, so that was not at the top of the list of priorities, im afraid. But today there’s no excuse to be a meat eater, unless you live up in the far north, where you can’t plant anything to eat. But why would anyone live that far, in that inhospitable environment anyway? No excuse. We’re intelligent, capable of making a decision such as this. There’s no discussion. Eating meat is morally wrong. Period.
In Christspiracy, it translates that Jesus was a Nazarene. That didn't mean he came from Nazareth, but he practised a philosophy that was vegan. Evidently, Nazareth isn't a place at all.
If Paul was the one saying it was ok to eat meat and the writers of the gospels were followers of Paul, then of course they wouldn't report that Jesus didn't eat meat. The religion should be call Pauline since all the churches arising from this history took Paul as the final arbiter of what Jesus "meant."
@12:28 Where is the rest of the debate at? Why does it cut off?
God turned the whole crew to pillars of salt
It's on the Ellen Fisher podcast
@@haileyh8340 Yeah... I found it, but thanks. I just don't understand why it sharply cuts off without mentioning that we should go watch the rest of it on the other channel. It literally just dumps on us, and seems unprofessional. So, half-hearted it makes me think their heart isn't in this. Where is their passion? This feels like they didn't even try. In fact, they didn't even bother to create their own introduction or explain why it's appearing on their channel for. They literally plagarized her intro sequence, and just cut and pasted it. This is not professional work, and I expect better.
@TheChadXperience909 yeah true, normally this channels videos are more professional
Jesus is compassion and love. And Jesus lives in your heart. Follow your heart and you will follow Jesus
Where's the rest of it? Just post the entire video. These incomplete videos are annoying.
3 min intro on a 12 min video is wild
@5:05 You don't even need to look any further than the New Testament to find this evidence, either. It's right there in Paul's epistles. Paul flat out admits that he's at odds with the Jesus movement, on this topic. He flat tells us that the movement was a vegetarian movement before he came along. Paul is telling us in the first century that the Jesus movement was vegetarian.
Danke!
I'll watch the full debate. I'm between the 2. I'm a Christian, I don't eat meat, but I don't think it's a sin unless doing so would offend your conscience. I've seen the factory farming footage so for me, it would be wrong. I'd like to know if Kam believes in the Deity of Christ and the resurrection of Christ. Not sure if he still considers himself mainline Christian,.
Why even use the Bible as a moral authority when it condones killing someone for picking up sticks on the sabbath? Or eternal torment for someone who by chance wasn’t raised in a Christian society and failed to have the “right” beliefs? (Mostly aimed at evangelical beliefs - I’m a good boy and read Bart ehrman)
I was raised Christian and escaped through philosophy. The big realization was that there was no good reason to think this character perfect. Miracles don’t do it - they just make you powerful. Dying for someone doesn’t do it either. Plenty of imperfect people have died for others in battle
And also - if this character really watches over us, what does that even mean? Like he watched over his people during the holocaust? I think I’d rather not be watched over thanks
Also, Jesus seemed quite ok with killing people who lied about their donations to the church (Ananias and Sephora)- so to think he wouldn’t mind tearing into a steak doesn’t seem like a stretch to me
Fruit is another word for Spirit. that’s when we have crucified our flesh, and we now live out our identity/Christ on earth/unconditional love.
Unclean is representation when we’re living in the flesh/ego/serpent and has nothing to do with meat It’s when we’re living in sin/not living out our identity on earth. Not living in Christ. Dominion over the animals is an expression to have control of your body living in love living out Christ it has nothing to do with animals.
Luke 17:21 everything is within. Col 2:27 this is a shadow of what’s to come. Prov 23:7 as a man thinketh he is. It’s a moment by moment basis.
Gal 6:7 you reap what you sow. that’s why people who eat meat die earlier than people that eat fresh raw plant-based foods.
Ohhh Ellen
The fact that you have to DEBATE what GOD says, is proof that nobody knows what God says, and pretending that you know what God says, is the height of arrogance.
I have been going through the Bible again recently - chapters and chapters goD requiring sacrifice - for very specific cases and done in a very specific details. Rivers of blood to be thrown at walls, meat being then burned. And explicitly explaining which parts go to the priests families.
Great reading of the Bible by a fellow vegan atheists I love: www.youtube.com/@FriendlyAtheist1
Tony Jones is a Theologian like Bill Gates is a philanthropist.
If you didn't create life what gives you the right to destroy it
God gave us that right.
I believe Jesus ate fish or he would not have manifested fish and loaves of bread to feed the masses.
The original version of the “Feeding of the Multitude” story only refers to bread, not bread with fish. “Fish” apparently got added to some gospel verses later on. If you look at other accounts of the same incident, for example, at the Early Church Fathers, who also talk about these stories, Irenaeus mentions the feeding of the 5,000. Eusebius also mentions that, and Arnobius, another early church writer also discusses Jesus’ feeding of the multitude, the miraculous feeding of the multitude. Iraneus lived during the Second Century and described in detail the Miracle of the Multitude being feed with bread. No mention whatsoever of fish. Eusebius and Arnobius also never mention ‘fishes with the loaves’, only the loaves. In fact, if you even look at the New Testament, it says, at another point, when Jesus is talking about the feeding of the five thousand, he says, ‘Do you not yet perceive? Do you not remember the five loaves for the five thousand, and how many baskets you gathered?’ (Matthew 16:9). And he doesn’t mention the fish...
You should also keep in mind that the fish was a well known mystical symbol. The Greek word for fish (Ichthys) was used as an acronym whose initials in Greek stood for ‘Jesus Christ, Son of God, Savior. In any case, “It’s not where you’ve been; it’s where you’re going,” as the saying goes. Many of us have changed our diets upon adopting a spiritual path or converting to a new religion. While several of the disciples are described as having been fisherman, and there are clearly a few references to fish in the New Testament gospels, we find Jesus saying to his new friends: “Come, follow Me and I will make you fishers of men [fishers of people, souls,].” (Matthew 4:19, Mark 1:17) So rather than remaining fisherman, perhaps operating an imagined Jesus Fish Company of Galilee - some sort of lifelong career as fisherman, in other words - RATHER THAN THAT - what we do find is those individuals adopting a new spiritual path, being transformed into disciples and eventually even becoming spiritual teachers.
The carnistic premise or bias of the Western church tradition about eating meat is really based on European dietary customs, but they have made use of a couple of verses from the orthodox New Testament in order to reinforce their already established preference for eating meat. Scriptures that are associated with Paul are those that evolved into the Roman church. For the followers of Paul, dropping the meatless dietary requirement of the Jesus Movement was a way to make it easier to get more converts around the Roman Empire. The orthodox religions of the world have always had a great way to rig the curriculum and manipulate history (practice revisionist history). They suppress the evidence, ban/burn books and even whole libraries (Ebionite gospels, compassionate vegan verses, gnostic mystical texts, etc) and then they shout: “Hey! Where’s the evidence?”
The original Jesus Movement or Hebrew Christians (sometimes called Aramaic Christians, Essenes, Ebionites or Nazoreans) with their gospels, the Gospels of the Hebrews and Ebionites describe a Pro-Veg ethos: Jesus and his Apostles who never consumed any flesh, a John the Baptist who ate carob (locust beans) - not bugs! and a rejection of ritual animal sacrifice, be it in pagan temples or the Jewish temple of Jerusalem.
*“I have come to abolish the sacrifices, and if you cease not from sacrificing, my wrath will not cease from you.”*
- Panarion 30.16.5 (Hebrew/Ebionite Gospel)
*“Be on guard, so that your hearts do not become heavy with the eating of flesh and with the intoxication of wine and with the anxiety of the world, and that day come upon you suddenly; for as a snare it will come upon all who dwell upon the surface of the earth.”*
- Luke 21:34, Evangelion Da-Mepharreshe (Old Syriac-Aramaic Manuscript)
*"It is kindness that I want, not animal sacrifices.”*
- Matthew 9:13
*“James, the brother of the Lord was holy from his mothers womb; and he drank no wine nor strong drink, nor did he eat flesh.”*
- Hegesippus, quoted in The Church History of Eusebius, book 2, chapter 23
@@VerdantJedi l believe that Jesus would have eaten fish and even meat growing up but became vegetarian when he was Christ. He was against animal sacrifices in the worship of God.
@@VerdantJediWhy do you have to say sooo much. Simply Jesus did eat fish.
However, if what you said is true, explain John 21:6 where Jesus tells the disciples to throw their net to the other side of the boat where they hauled in a great number of fish. Do you think that the disciples caught algae? Bread? Vegetables? Fruits?
All I know is the Easter bunny is vegan.
Jesus was vegetarian. He was an Essene. His followers for the first 300 years were the Essenes, until they were all slaughtered. They were all vegetarians. He spent most of his life and time in India where the culture is vegetarian. This is so blatantly obvious that i can't believe we even have this discussion anymore.
This "Jesus lived in India" is a debunked topic. Sorry
Thats crazy 💀
Takk!
Very good news
Fairytales, who cares.
How does he know what "Really" was said?
I've been on a strict plant based diet for 40 years. I'm 70 and look 50 and I feel great. Also, there's such no thing as the easter bunny, santa clause, god, and jesus. If you're smart, you'll vote blue.
You just ruined my childhood. At least I know the tooth fairy is still real.
Awesome! I've been strict plantbased for two years (age 52) and am experiencing remarkable health for first time in my life, looking forward to rest of my life now that I know decrepitude is not inevitable. Sincere good luck for the election. Literally and sincerely hoping for a blue sky outcome
I love this for you! October 31st was my 6 years being vegan and I don't regret anything.
Voting for the lesser of two evils. Not smart.
No, not even the Buddha was a vegan.
Hate to be 'that guy' in the comments but...who cares? I feel like I might have cared about this about 20 years ago...
In the absence of convincing moral arguments for animal rights, in the absence of the 2012 Cambridge Declaration on Consciousness, in the absence of the overwhelming amount of nutritional and environmental science...I guess this discussion would be interesting in that information vacuum. It just feels like they're arguing about the linen count on a dollar bill.
I don't understand your comment
@@vioheubach3112 With all the good arguments for veganism, many of which have become clearer and clearer over the past 20 years, "Jesus was vegan" seems like a profoundly weak argument.
In the absence of better arguments, "Jesus was vegan" might have sufficed.
Man on left You have lost the plot. You don’t understand the message of the Bible. If you did you will not argue in that way. Man on right understands the Bible. The statement that EVERYTHING that creeps will serve as meat for you is very clear. Command was given to Noah when he and family came out of the Ark after the flood and there was no vegetation so they had to eat the animals to survive.
Animal sacrifices for the Jews started on the night they were liberated from Egypt. The Passover lamb was slaughtered on Nisan 14 and the blood was splashed on the doors of Israelites so when the angel of death visited he will not kill their firstborn but all the firstborn of Egyptians were killed. That began the practice of animal sacrifices. And it continued until Christ came because Jesus was the real sacrificial lamb that took away the sin of the world. It should cease then but stubborn Jews refused to believe that Jesus came and died as a sacrificial lamb to take away the sin of the world.
Jesus fed 5000 people with five loaves and two FISHES. That is clearly stated. One of Jesus disciples was a fisherman.
The Jews did not eat certain animals because the LAW God gave them when Moses went up the mountain forbade eating CERTAIN animals which were considered unclean for certain reasons. One of which was the pig sold in the market for food. Not because it was sacrificed to false gods but more specifically because it was one of the animals forbidden by the Mosaic law.
If you believe Noah actually happened then how did kangaroos and koalas get on the boat? So why did every other animal have to die? Also 2 of every animal means that each animal bred with its sister or brother. So many things wrong with that.
don't put religion and logic together , deadly combination
@ it gets worse. Only 3-4 couples to repopulate the entire world. Inbreeding yet again. Also were there only 8 people worth saving on the entire planet? or did innocent people ? And what about all the other Christians at the time? 😹
As soon as sinned was introduced meat eating was introduced as a way to not waste the animal that has to be sacrificed as a sin offering. We will go back to being raw vegan in heaven because in heaven, there will be no more death or suffering of any kind. Also God gave Noah and his family permission to eat meat because at the time there wasnt an abundance of vegetation right after the flood. Which is why the people in the dessert were eating what angels eat honey wafers no meat but people wanted their meat and God begrudgingly gave them what they wanted but the meat made them very sick.
1 Corinthians 1 (KJV)
²⁶ For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
²⁷ But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
We don't even know if Jesus was real lol, but I agree if you are espiritual person (no religious) you have to respect the life of everything
Isn't this really old? I saw this a long time ago
Yeah as we mentioned in the caption this is a reshare of an older video. But we shared now in order to coincide with the online streaming release of Christspiracy - now available since 1st November.
He was a fisherman dumba$
He fed people bread and fish. I can’t even watch this. Are you unaware of a thing called google?
I believe yes, but How anyone like Jesus instructed eat Animals?
Many of these videos end/stop like on a wall
great Video. Intro is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay toooooooooooooooooooo Looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong
1 minute in I'm already like "This vegan!" Yeah man, in the beginning, in the Garden of Eden, God himself killed an animal to make clothes for Adam and Eve. Was Jesus a vegan? Maybe, but he had no problem feeding people fish. God even told Peter in Acts 10 "What God has made clean, do not call common." Probably out of context since God was saying that his grace is for even the Gentiles - not just the Jews. I still don't think God would tell him to kill and eat animals if God didn't want people to eat animals. "If you look at all of Scripture..." Yeah, did you? I'm not saying you can't be vegan; eat what you want. I think God cares more about your heart than any rules you follow.
So fig leaves is an animal.??? Go to the originals. Maybe do some research. The original sin has nothing to do with fruit. A & E transgressed by killing an animal. They fell for the promises of the Old Testament blood cult gods. Like Yah we (Anu), Molech, etc.
@@beachbaby7 Read Genesis 3. Nothing about A&E killing an animal. However:
3:21 'Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.'
Also, A&E preceded the OT gods.
Lev 3:17, Lev 7:22-27 and Lev 17. Read and study. No blood no fat. There was sacrificial services of animals. Without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sin. Heb 9:22 significant of the blood of the Lamb, Jesus. After the flood the was no vegetation. God permitted man to eat animals. However God knew what would happen to man while continuing to eat animals. Man's stature was greater that man today. Adam and Eve were at least 15ft or more. As time went on man's height decreased. Don't just read the Bible study.
What a waste of time...😐
4:10