They can, MLMs aren't illegal on its own, pyramid schemes are illegal but if Herbalife actually gets their products sold every once in a while it's not that easy to prove and I don't see obvious signs that Herbalife could be accused of it in front of a court
Also, the main purpose of the SEC is to supervise the trading and protect the investors from fraudulent activities and Herbalife is profitable for the investors. Other things like if people selling for them are actually making money aren't that much on their priorities
You and 105 other people should understand that MLMs are not illegal. Where they make their money is the biggest part of what makes it legal or illegal. If they get most of their money from recruiting new people, illegal pyramid scheme. If they get most of their money from selling products, legal MLM.
It’s annoying AF because I have friends who lost money on them. I felt bad and bought some, but their vitamins were overpriced trash. Their protein is the worst you can take for bodybuilding and can kill your kidneys over time.
@@moonbull3137 ir•ra•tion•al ĭ-răsh′ə-nəl► adj. Not endowed with reason. adj. Affected by loss of usual or normal mental clarity; incoherent, as from shock. solvent just means u got cash and can pay for stuff
why didn't you include the detail that Herbalife actually was fined $200 million and forced to restructure its business. So basically they were found to have been a Pyramid scheme but were told to pay a fine and stop it. Ackman was right. Ichan just hated him and outspent him as a vendetta.
The reason it is not a pyramid scheme is because you get a product of value for your money. I know as i used it. Bill Ackman was just trying to make money.
He got greedy and made all in bet that Herbalife would go bankrupt. You shouldn’t go all in on short else you get squeezed, go long like what Icahn did then makes sense because he faced much less risk than just fundamentals. He literally paying anyone rich enough to outlast him to buy and hold Herbalife.
Herbalife would have lost but for Icann's hatred for Bill. Herbalife is a terrible pyramid sham preying on the poor. Icahn has no pity and only contempt for poor people.
He was right about HerbaLife, but being right doesn't always get rewarded.. I at least admire that he was willing to try, that's more than some people do when they see fraud, would have been just as easy for him to ignore it and move on to something else...
@@randomizer1666 yess but only thing gone against him was another big gaints..... Who knew if he moved this stock down he'll be much fatel for there future too...
Bill Ackman is a snake and has done from scummy things. If he hadn't made enemies he probably would of been successful. Carl Icahn invested just to screw over Ackman.
Einhorn and Ackman are two of the sharpest public company analysts in the world. The fact the stocks kept rising despite all fundamentals and metrics shows me this was a hedge fund scam to get their money.
I realize I would have done exactly the same as Bill were I in his position. it is perhaps the mathematician in me that always prevents me from seeing companies like herbalife as an investment!
... and then the reality of living in the equity-is-god twilight zone smacks you in the face repeatedly till u like, "wtf am I doing playin with these shorts?"
@@agrippathegamer1141 haha me2 in Australia. Went out with some friends and they made it sound like a great business meeting, to meet likeminded people and then wtf... suprise!
Carl Icahn had a point about akmen scaring people into panic selling. He did the same thing during the lockdowns and got people to sell Hilton and other hotels which he bought up right after.
Went to one of those herbalife seminars before. It was like a cult and people really believed in it. They promised free lunch but all I got was some protein bars 🤣
“He had done thorough research on the company” How long did that take to figure out it’s pyramid scheme? Twenty minutes? All MLMs are pyramid schemes. There are keywords used to figure it out fast. Network marketing, direct selling, distributors, down-line, etc. Anytime you have to purchase a starter kit or purchase the product to sell it then it’s a scam. Any company who is more concerned with you recruiting people to join instead of selling the product is a pyramid scheme
It’s just crazy to me how these billionaires can market their positions all over tv/news and by doing that most of the time turning it into a self fulfilling prophecy. It just seems like easy money. Hopefully GameStop turned the tides
You don’t see how game stop was an example of what you’re talking about? It didn’t go up because GameStop was doing well. It went up because it was going up because of all the WSB Media hype
@@codycast hey bud I made money off it. It’s a combination of media getting retail involved but more importantly the hedge funds shorted it to death causing a short squeeze. Finally the little guy beat them at their own game for a couple weeks. But they have too much money and too much time and they’re gonna ride it all the way back down
@@Njliving22 "I made money off it" - so its not just the billionaires. And remember, there were hedge funds holding GME shares too. You just got manipulated.
Going from rich to poor has to be harder than just being poor your whole life. Your eyes are open to exactly everything your missing and how good life can be.
my ex also put money in herbalife products. It was like a cult. she had to go there and organize a welcome party with cookies and stuff. the recruiter woman had zero education and tried to pitch these products which had basic ingredients. after I calculated all the fees payed to the upper layer in the scheme I realized the product value is a small fraction of the price clients pay. so this means it cannot be as super healthy. the economics of it did not make any sense. and they did some phony weight measurements and trying to sell me stuff, even if I had perfect scores.
All MLMs are scams not some, 97% of the people attached to these business lose money or don't make any money. I was actually hoping he'd win on this one because MLMs are predatory and we need to do away with these types of businesses.
What's kind of odd is that he thought he could bring an MLM down despite these schemes going on for decades of being questioned and having connections to politicians
Yep, Herbalife is protected, Big Time. I bet they just ramped up their "information seminars" to pay that $200,000,000 wrist slap. Any "reforms" to which they "agreed" in a consent decree will be promptly ignored. Their "product line" is about as relevant to their business model as a bird made of lead is to the plot of The Maltese Falcon.
3:20 "Not all Multi Level Marketing Schemes are bad." 1: I challenge you to show us just ONE legitimate MLM..... The FTC was asked to do this when they said the exact same thing and they had no answer.... 2: Did you just say SCHEMES? Was that a Freudian slip??? 2:
"Some pyramid schemes are good". I understand what you mean, horrible choice of words lol. Let me fix it "There are some companies that are seemingly similar due to also having a recruiting component to their business, however the difference is their product has real demand, as well as they have a clear and legal pay structure for their sells reps"
Carl Ichan is the man Gordan Gecko was based on in wall street. Ichan had more money in this fight to squeeze Ackman and pulled it off he has since divested in it. If you want to talk about Ackman shorts look at his big short on MBNA.
Sadly it wasn’t just Icahn taking the opposite side, together they squeezed Ackman. Ackman was too confident at first and was forced to restructure his short.
Bill Ackman’s losses from Herbalife were less than 5% of Perishing Square Holdings portfolio. He is one of the greatest investors of all time, especially after 2020.
@pepinho89 Bill Ackman is overrated and just another privileged Caucasian Jew who gets to lose other people's money while he collects his 2 and 20 yearly.
It's crazy to me that a sophisticated investor like Ackman would advertise the fact that he has a huge short position. That is just asking for somebody to put him in a squeeze.
Bill Ackman was trying to do something good for the world and make money. It's sad that others like Carl Icahn could have take a position alongside him, profit together, and bring down one of the worst MLM's in the country. Screw Icahn and everyone else who sided with herbalife to make a quick buck
Ackman said on cnbc it cost $30 million a year to cover the short position and the only reason he bailed is because Icahn kept buying up shares to raise the price because he said Ackman screwed him on a previous deal, Herbalife is still a garbage business and a pyramid scheme and Icahn is now stuck with the company that he has to keep pumping the stock, it was a gamble Ackman took and was winning until Icahn came along
They are MLMs even if they sell good products. To determine if MLMs are pyramid schemes you should look at their finances and if majority of their earnings are because of recruitment and not sales, they are pyramid schemes
Bill took a short position and became extremely vocal so shares can fall while he can profit. He was not being righteous here either folks. They both were in it for the money.
No one said he was. The way he payed people to come out against Herbalife is what did him in. But our goals were aligned with his at least at one point coz most people agree that All MLMs including Herbalife are a scam. If someone makes money off of that, so be it.
Funny thing is that during this scandal my Herbalife business actually grew exponentially because customers kept coming in my store asking about what was going on in the news.
I was one of those people saying 'thank God I didn't join' when I first heard of it. come 2020, I disclosed all the above scandal and Bill's mad claims. Jumped on the opportunity and rocking it big time. I guess it helps to start from understanding as opposed to speculation.
The personal issue I have with this is that my family (and some more), went balls deep into this shit, then I moved countries, and I saw some more people into this shit. Bill is right, but his timing is wrong :(. Anyone from Canada heard of Visalus before as well!? Yeah... Same shit.
I think Bill Ackman may have mistaken unethical with unsustainable. I agree with Bill that Herbalife rips distributors off. However, that does not make their business model unsustainable. For example a giant tech company named after a fruit makes their devices unnecessarily difficult to repair by not allowing suppliers to sell certain parts to independent repair shops or making diagnostic software available. This is clearly unethical as it result in customers having to discard somewhat toxic devices before they should be thrown out. However, I would never consider shorting that company. For that matter it does not even stop me from using one of their devices.
Dude, the company is both unethical and unsustainable. Unsustainable business model because distributors rely heavily on recruitment to earn and you could only repeat that process a couple of times before you ran out of people to recruit. Now tell me again if it's still a sustainable business model?
Icahn is savior and a hero. Ackman is a self-entitle trust fund baby who is jewish of prominent new york family do the maths he is known in wallstreet as the biggest scumbag by all the industry. There is US state senate investigating all who involved mostly Anthony Falconi as we speak and the potential leak out of the Wuhan labortories which Falconi endorse and paid for risky experiment which email provide he knew they could and will cause a pandemic resulting in killing million of people dying and yet Falconi trying to exploit a loophole to do so who was back by the republicans many of zionist jews. Consequently I guess you better start dating fat chics buster you fellers are so high and mighty with your morality but when it comes to the nitty gritty of what takes to stay lean healthily you don't want to know about it on top of which your not willing to wife the strong fat chic or support those types of role models it's hilarious to listen to you bag on strong plus size women while you take down companies that make losing weight healthily and safe a possible all of you can just suck bag of dicks! Herbalife has made more millionaires then any company what have you done in your life you bum!
Another example of a short-seller who reviewed their huge losses and returned to investing in long positions, and started to make money again. Lesson learned - leave your ego at the door.
Need to correct you if no one else has- they don’t HAVE to buoy inventory and sell it back- they can sell direct ship to a retail client. This is no different from being a small business owner. You buy wholesale sell retail. The philosophy of the company is to build relationships and help people have a healthy active lifestyle. Not push people to buy one time and leave. You can be successful and not have a team or you can have a team and grow- you can be uncomfortable with the idea of MLMs but unless you actually know how they work, don’t speak ill of them
I honestly dont understand the statement whether people can still trust the former herbalife executive. Its just common sense that if you speak up against a powerful enemy, such as a huge company, you need some kind of securitiy as you may get fired and if so may never find a job again. I think the way they present this leaves some people thinking its shady when in fact its just a kind of security and not an enrichment...
Those who saying pyramid n mlm ,they actually don't know what is herbalife. N yes some of the distributors do stupid things to make quick money in herbalife but if you see ethics and training system of herbalife is best. So the blame to people not the company.
If a company is overvalued, don't buy it. However, you also shouldn't necessarily short it, because it could remain overvalued for longer than you expect. Also, a company can be a pyramid scheme and still be very profitable. They're screwing over their distributors, not their shareholders. Also, it's not illegal to sell products to distributors even if they're not worth that much.
This sounds like moralist investing. Ackerman is still right about Herbalife, but his bet needed to consider the smartness of the scam's lawyers not the truth.
Back here in 2024 after hearing Ackerman’s podcast with lex Fridman, Herbalife stock is pretty much in the dumpsters, don’t know if Icahn still owns their shares
Short Selling should not even be be allowed. Greedy people should not be able to willingly promote and profit from a company's failure. Numerous people get hurt real bad when they lose their job.
Can u give me a example of this being the case? There has yet to be a economic study that proves short selling is bad. All the studies that have been done on shorting have all indicated its a positive market influence. To keep the bull market low. Shorting helps regulate the bullish investors so markets dont colapse all the time... And short selling is not only a tool for "rich people". One of my best ever trades was in 2009 when i shorted a norwegian shipping company that was implicated because of the fall of Lehman brothers. I had a 4x hedged position, i made 279% in the span of a few hours... at this moment in time i was a freshman finance student in college So no short selling is not a tool for the rich. Its a tool for everyone.
@@mhmhm5337 shorting is a huge tug of war with investors. Usually small investors lose out because they are not able stand seeing decreasing numbers. A good example is gamespot. Hedges shorted it to dollars and only a bunch of small investors were able to push back against a shorter.
@@IronMan-wz8dx nope shorting is regulating and limiting the market. If we did not have anyone shorting and controlling the market we would have massive bubbles all the time. All of the studies on shorting indicate that shorting is good for the market. When we talk about gamestop, gamestop was actually overvalued even at its lowest point. Gamestop is on its way to bankruptcy, they are on a massive decline and their financials indicated they WERE OVERVALUED EVEN AT ITS LOWEST POINT...
Those "bigwigs" have the need... the need for greed. Why don't people with large short positions like that cover half of it if and when the stock drops the first 25% in price? (which could be right after they announce their large short position). For example, if a stock is shorted at $100 average price, cover half of it at $75, so that even if someone got squeezed up to $125, they are back to even Steven and can start over, perhaps re-shorting at a higher price.
You answered your own question. Ackman and Icahn and most of the financial world in general are terminally greedy, no matter the consequences to anyone else.
10:45 That is exaxtly how a former president responded to all negativity. Now that I've heart the pattern and cadence... I know what guilt sounds like at these "untouchable" levels.
It's quite insane that the SEC can't even prove that Herbalife is an MLM but a 18 y/o me needed 15 secondes inside Herbalife meeting to notice it lol
They can, MLMs aren't illegal on its own, pyramid schemes are illegal but if Herbalife actually gets their products sold every once in a while it's not that easy to prove and I don't see obvious signs that Herbalife could be accused of it in front of a court
Also, the main purpose of the SEC is to supervise the trading and protect the investors from fraudulent activities and Herbalife is profitable for the investors. Other things like if people selling for them are actually making money aren't that much on their priorities
MLM's are NOT illegal.
It's a Business Structure/Model. ...It's ONLY illegal when you have NO Product to sell.
You and 105 other people should understand that MLMs are not illegal. Where they make their money is the biggest part of what makes it legal or illegal. If they get most of their money from recruiting new people, illegal pyramid scheme. If they get most of their money from selling products, legal MLM.
It’s annoying AF because I have friends who lost money on them. I felt bad and bought some, but their vitamins were overpriced trash. Their protein is the worst you can take for bodybuilding and can kill your kidneys over time.
Bill underestimated the stupidity of people...
Yup, he learned a valuable lesson in this lost.
he was so right but unfortunately thanks to heavy lobbying and money spent on the media from opposition he was not
Jup.
wow, that's a very bold generalization.
Ngl thats a good life quote. "Never underestimate the stupidity of people"
The market can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent
That's the truth
the inefficient market hypothesis
... is true
@@mandelbro777 iT has always been
What does that mean
@@moonbull3137 ir•ra•tion•al ĭ-răsh′ə-nəl►
adj. Not endowed with reason.
adj. Affected by loss of usual or normal mental clarity; incoherent, as from shock. solvent just means u got cash and can pay for stuff
why didn't you include the detail that Herbalife actually was fined $200 million and forced to restructure its business. So basically they were found to have been a Pyramid scheme but were told to pay a fine and stop it. Ackman was right. Ichan just hated him and outspent him as a vendetta.
The reason it is not a pyramid scheme is because you get a product of value for your money. I know as i used it. Bill Ackman was just trying to make money.
I'm pretty sure they only paid out $6,000,000.
@@raishedyahia662 , regardless of what Herbalife paid out I will tell you this, EVERY MLM is a pyramid scheme.....
He got greedy and made all in bet that Herbalife would go bankrupt. You shouldn’t go all in on short else you get squeezed, go long like what Icahn did then makes sense because he faced much less risk than just fundamentals. He literally paying anyone rich enough to outlast him to buy and hold Herbalife.
Sad thing is, the HerbaLife should have lost here.
He lost because he was too vocal
Herbalife would have lost but for Icann's hatred for Bill. Herbalife is a terrible pyramid sham preying on the poor. Icahn has no pity and only contempt for poor people.
He was right about HerbaLife, but being right doesn't always get rewarded.. I at least admire that he was willing to try, that's more than some people do when they see fraud, would have been just as easy for him to ignore it and move on to something else...
@@randomizer1666 Too true
@@randomizer1666 yess but only thing gone against him was another big gaints..... Who knew if he moved this stock down he'll be much fatel for there future too...
if you often have to defend to your friends that think it is a pyramid scheme, it's probably a pyramid scheme
I've watched that documentary "betting on zero" and I felt that Bill Ackman did a hell of a job
He is smart yes
Ben Hueng - I agree!
Bill Ackman is a snake and has done from scummy things.
If he hadn't made enemies he probably would of been successful.
Carl Icahn invested just to screw over Ackman.
Love how you show extensive footage from interviews at the time in all your vids, 10/10
Bill Ackman rebounded by predicting the pandemic.. he made it big time
predicted the pandemic? tf are you saying? he went on TV and acted like a focking bitch , starting to put fear in the market
@@razvan81covid might be almost over but the real fun has just begun.
He said everything is going to zero yet we're higher than ever lol
@@razvan81 quiet baby permabull
@@razvan81 I think the market woulda tanked regardless ,not gonna lie
You are just a content machine. Almost one video per day. Great job dude. Love your content.
Einhorn and Ackman are two of the sharpest public company analysts in the world. The fact the stocks kept rising despite all fundamentals and metrics shows me this was a hedge fund scam to get their money.
I realize I would have done exactly the same as Bill were I in his position. it is perhaps the mathematician in me that always prevents me from seeing companies like herbalife as an investment!
... and then the reality of living in the equity-is-god twilight zone smacks you in the face repeatedly till u like, "wtf am I doing playin with these shorts?"
It's a FRAUD.... If you consider that an "investment" you're a psychopath.....
This is a lesson in never telling people your business.
So true…
Lmao my mom sold Herbalife in the 90s. I remember a bumper sticker on her dodge caravan that said "Feel great now, ask me how!" 😂
Ppl still do stuff like that. I got invited to (Sc)Amway just last year lol
Would she say she was scammed if you asked her?
Now people selling dildos this way lol
@@thevilinirony Pure Romance,true story 😂
@@agrippathegamer1141 haha me2 in Australia. Went out with some friends and they made it sound like a great business meeting, to meet likeminded people and then wtf... suprise!
Carl Icahn had a point about akmen scaring people into panic selling. He did the same thing during the lockdowns and got people to sell Hilton and other hotels which he bought up right after.
That turquoise tide background reminds me to buy a yatch with my gains, thanks to this channel.
lol, thats why i chose the background, its aspirational
Went to one of those herbalife seminars before. It was like a cult and people really believed in it. They promised free lunch but all I got was some protein bars 🤣
You need to be healthy before you get robbed 🤣🤣🤣
“He had done thorough research on the company”
How long did that take to figure out it’s pyramid scheme? Twenty minutes?
All MLMs are pyramid schemes. There are keywords used to figure it out fast. Network marketing, direct selling, distributors, down-line, etc. Anytime you have to purchase a starter kit or purchase the product to sell it then it’s a scam. Any company who is more concerned with you recruiting people to join instead of selling the product is a pyramid scheme
And yet the FTC and even this video say there are "legitimate" MLMs..... There's absolutely no such thing....
It’s just crazy to me how these billionaires can market their positions all over tv/news and by doing that most of the time turning it into a self fulfilling prophecy. It just seems like easy money. Hopefully GameStop turned the tides
You don’t see how game stop was an example of what you’re talking about?
It didn’t go up because GameStop was doing well. It went up because it was going up because of all the WSB Media hype
@@codycast hey bud I made money off it. It’s a combination of media getting retail involved but more importantly the hedge funds shorted it to death causing a short squeeze. Finally the little guy beat them at their own game for a couple weeks. But they have too much money and too much time and they’re gonna ride it all the way back down
@@Njliving22 "I made money off it" - so its not just the billionaires. And remember, there were hedge funds holding GME shares too. You just got manipulated.
@@edwardheaney3641 sorry Charlie I made money from the squeeze so how did I get manipulated? Lol.
@@Njliving22 I'd say yes that is true but then what happened with robin hood after that, really stops me. the hedge funds still have the power.
Multi Level Mormon Scheme. All of these MLM companies are oddly HQ’d In Salt Lake City. 🤔🤔🤔
Mormons make up 30% of the NSA data center in Utah. yes we should be scared..
Deseret Management Co likes having money...
Going from rich to poor has to be harder than just being poor your whole life. Your eyes are open to exactly everything your missing and how good life can be.
Yea that's why so many lottery winners who lose every thing kill themselves...
Gotta stay rich when you get there 💯
my ex also put money in herbalife products. It was like a cult. she had to go there and organize a welcome party with cookies and stuff. the recruiter woman had zero education and tried to pitch these products which had basic ingredients. after I calculated all the fees payed to the upper layer in the scheme I realized the product value is a small fraction of the price clients pay. so this means it cannot be as super healthy. the economics of it did not make any sense. and they did some phony weight measurements and trying to sell me stuff, even if I had perfect scores.
shame, had he waited another year he would've come out ahead
WoW, that phone call...
All MLMs are scams not some, 97% of the people attached to these business lose money or don't make any money. I was actually hoping he'd win on this one because MLMs are predatory and we need to do away with these types of businesses.
The products do not sell on their own merits, period.
What's kind of odd is that he thought he could bring an MLM down despite these schemes going on for decades of being questioned and having connections to politicians
Yep, Herbalife is protected, Big Time. I bet they just ramped up their "information seminars" to pay that $200,000,000 wrist slap. Any "reforms" to which they "agreed" in a consent decree will be promptly ignored. Their "product line" is about as relevant to their business model as a bird made of lead is to the plot of The Maltese Falcon.
His mistake was he didn’t think the gov was on the take…..that why his plan didn’t work……
A lot of my friend involved in MLM scheme. All of them goes broke.
3:20 "Not all Multi Level Marketing Schemes are bad."
1: I challenge you to show us just ONE legitimate MLM..... The FTC was asked to do this when they said the exact same thing and they had no answer....
2: Did you just say SCHEMES? Was that a Freudian slip???
2:
"Some pyramid schemes are good". I understand what you mean, horrible choice of words lol.
Let me fix it
"There are some companies that are seemingly similar due to also having a recruiting component to their business, however the difference is their product has real demand, as well as they have a clear and legal pay structure for their sells reps"
Perfect
3:23 Name one MLM that's legit and totally NOT a Pyramid Scheme? Just one please.
My Indian coworkers, were relentless sellers of Herbalife. I have a feeling, they were making some sales.
Carl Ichan is the man Gordan Gecko was based on in wall street. Ichan had more money in this fight to squeeze Ackman and pulled it off he has since divested in it. If you want to talk about Ackman shorts look at his big short on MBNA.
+/1/3/1/2/6/6/1/5/4/4/6
Sadly it wasn’t just Icahn taking the opposite side, together they squeezed Ackman. Ackman was too confident at first and was forced to restructure his short.
Make a video about Carl Ichan, he is quite a character
I hope you reach 1 mill subs good content keep it up
Bill Ackman’s losses from Herbalife were less than 5% of Perishing Square Holdings portfolio. He is one of the greatest investors of all time, especially after 2020.
@pepinho89
Bill Ackman is overrated and just another privileged Caucasian Jew who gets to lose other people's money while he collects his 2 and 20 yearly.
It's crazy to me that a sophisticated investor like Ackman would advertise the fact that he has a huge short position. That is just asking for somebody to put him in a squeeze.
He was betting on the regulators shutting it down, he underestimated the corporate staying power.
His short would have been disclosed anyway
Bill Ackman was trying to do something good for the world and make money. It's sad that others like Carl Icahn could have take a position alongside him, profit together, and bring down one of the worst MLM's in the country. Screw Icahn and everyone else who sided with herbalife to make a quick buck
Icahn accused Ackman of pump-and-dumping on like tv, with him on the phone, but "if it was anyone other than Ackman" he won't care 😂
Ackman said on cnbc it cost $30 million a year to cover the short position and the only reason he bailed is because Icahn kept buying up shares to raise the price because he said Ackman screwed him on a previous deal, Herbalife is still a garbage business and a pyramid scheme and Icahn is now stuck with the company that he has to keep pumping the stock, it was a gamble Ackman took and was winning until Icahn came along
As a french Herbalife independant distributor, I'm glad to see videos of this quality about this topic. Thank you for this good work.
are you still doing that?
Yikes
@@ScrollTD lmao
Reminds me of an aphorism I once got from Nassim Taleb about it being more profitable to exploit ignorance rather than try to rid the world of it.
Herbalife business model is half mlm but because they actually sell good products they don’t fall under the mlm ...
+/1/3/1/2/6/6/1/5/4/4/6
They are MLMs even if they sell good products. To determine if MLMs are pyramid schemes you should look at their finances and if majority of their earnings are because of recruitment and not sales, they are pyramid schemes
They're overpriced compared to many of their competitors with products just as good
I knew people making a few sales.
If you make profits not on the products but on the number of sellers in the pyramid, your a mlm.
"Without what I see as manipulation"
There are no good guys in this story
Bill took a short position and became extremely vocal so shares can fall while he can profit. He was not being righteous here either folks. They both were in it for the money.
No one said he was. The way he payed people to come out against Herbalife is what did him in.
But our goals were aligned with his at least at one point coz most people agree that All MLMs including Herbalife are a scam.
If someone makes money off of that, so be it.
Funny thing is that during this scandal my Herbalife business actually grew exponentially because customers kept coming in my store asking about what was going on in the news.
I was one of those people saying 'thank God I didn't join' when I first heard of it. come 2020, I disclosed all the above scandal and Bill's mad claims. Jumped on the opportunity and rocking it big time. I guess it helps to start from understanding as opposed to speculation.
Found the shills
They don’t have Herbalife stores
@@sunnybunnyranch Well, they do have U-Store-It units!
Make a video about Carl Icahn please
The personal issue I have with this is that my family (and some more), went balls deep into this shit, then I moved countries, and I saw some more people into this shit. Bill is right, but his timing is wrong :(. Anyone from Canada heard of Visalus before as well!? Yeah... Same shit.
His investment failed, but his conclusion was absolutely correct. The income disclosures don't lie, MLM is a Pyramid scheme
Short sellers: *sees Herbalife*
Also short sellers: “I don’t want to be the bad guy this time”
that bull run gave me my first ever 40%+ yearly realized gains for my portfolio when I was 23, good times, wish I had more money to invest back then
That interview sounded like an MW2 lobby
I think Bill Ackman may have mistaken unethical with unsustainable. I agree with Bill that Herbalife rips distributors off. However, that does not make their business model unsustainable. For example a giant tech company named after a fruit makes their devices unnecessarily difficult to repair by not allowing suppliers to sell certain parts to independent repair shops or making diagnostic software available. This is clearly unethical as it result in customers having to discard somewhat toxic devices before they should be thrown out. However, I would never consider shorting that company.
For that matter it does not even stop me from using one of their devices.
I would short blackberry ;)
Jk
Dude, the company is both unethical and unsustainable. Unsustainable business model because distributors rely heavily on recruitment to earn and you could only repeat that process a couple of times before you ran out of people to recruit. Now tell me again if it's still a sustainable business model?
What kinda oranges to elephants comparison is that lmao.
I am disappointed his short didn’t work. Herbalife is a joke and takes money from foolish people.
"Not all multi-level marking companies are scams."
Citation needed, bruh
Herbalife... where the top few feeds on the bottom... *cough* pyramid *cough*
Never fight a cult selling futuristic vision...
At least this gave us a documentary: Betting on Zero.
Herbalife’s stock is 55% down in the past 5 years, 62% down in the last 12 months…
Icahn is such a troll hilarious
Icahn is savior and a hero. Ackman is a self-entitle trust fund baby who is jewish of prominent new york family do the maths he is known in wallstreet as the biggest scumbag by all the industry.
There is US state senate investigating all who involved mostly Anthony Falconi as we speak and the potential leak out of the Wuhan labortories which Falconi endorse and paid for risky experiment which email provide he knew they could and will cause a pandemic resulting in killing million of people dying and yet Falconi trying to exploit a loophole to do so who was back by the republicans many of zionist jews.
Consequently I guess you better start dating fat chics buster you fellers are so high and mighty with your morality but when it comes to the nitty gritty of what takes to stay lean healthily you don't want to know about it on top of which your not willing to wife the strong fat chic or support those types of role models it's hilarious to listen to you bag on strong plus size women while you take down companies that make losing weight healthily and safe a possible all of you can just suck bag of dicks!
Herbalife has made more millionaires then any company what have you done in your life you bum!
@@SusieQSydney My guy... What the fuck are you smoking?
@@MonicAchannel22 anti semitism if I had to guess
@@SusieQSydney lmao bro what was this manifesto you lunatic
@@SusieQSydney Found the shill
my next business will be starting my own MLM!
Lol. The best way to make money in an MLM is to start/own one
He tried to bring down an MLM and didnt work.
Now Icahn is getting kicked in the berries for running Icahn Enterprises as a pyramid scheme. Hilarious irony
Another example of a short-seller who reviewed their huge losses and returned to investing in long positions, and started to make money again. Lesson learned - leave your ego at the door.
Great video!
Need to correct you if no one else has- they don’t HAVE to buoy inventory and sell it back- they can sell direct ship to a retail client. This is no different from being a small business owner. You buy wholesale sell retail. The philosophy of the company is to build relationships and help people have a healthy active lifestyle. Not push people to buy one time and leave. You can be successful and not have a team or you can have a team and grow- you can be uncomfortable with the idea of MLMs but unless you actually know how they work, don’t speak ill of them
I honestly dont understand the statement whether people can still trust the former herbalife executive. Its just common sense that if you speak up against a powerful enemy, such as a huge company, you need some kind of securitiy as you may get fired and if so may never find a job again. I think the way they present this leaves some people thinking its shady when in fact its just a kind of security and not an enrichment...
Yeah, all mlms are bad. Or you'd hire and pay your workers like normal companies do.
Betting on zero is a must watch.
Where to watch it
@@kirilmihaylov1934 TH-cam.
Those who saying pyramid n mlm ,they actually don't know what is herbalife.
N yes some of the distributors do stupid things to make quick money in herbalife but if you see ethics and training system of herbalife is best.
So the blame to people not the company.
Can't wait for either the Dogecoin that could story or the Dogecoin that broke everybody story
Bill and Carl defo have beefs
08:04 what an awful parking!
congrat for the 100K subscriber
When the Freemasons come after, YOU This is what happens to, YOU.
Whats a freemosan?
4:54 Lmao that sounds an awful lot like America 😂
This is funny hilarious the title itself is comical
Ackman describing a pyramid scheme unironically...
I was literally googling this situation last night lol!
"and nearly destroyed one of their career's"
If a company is overvalued, don't buy it. However, you also shouldn't necessarily short it, because it could remain overvalued for longer than you expect.
Also, a company can be a pyramid scheme and still be very profitable. They're screwing over their distributors, not their shareholders.
Also, it's not illegal to sell products to distributors even if they're not worth that much.
As long as MLM system are legal, they're winning
Wow, I can’t believe this became a big media story. TBH seems like the media wanted to milk it from both sides.
I dislike all MLMs as i felt pain as gf felt in these.. as she felt they were okay when i tried tell no to those.
This sounds like moralist investing. Ackerman is still right about Herbalife, but his bet needed to consider the smartness of the scam's lawyers not the truth.
Back here in 2024 after hearing Ackerman’s podcast with lex Fridman, Herbalife stock is pretty much in the dumpsters, don’t know if Icahn still owns their shares
Short Selling should not even be be allowed. Greedy people should not be able to willingly promote and profit from a company's failure. Numerous people get hurt real bad when they lose their job.
Can u give me a example of this being the case?
There has yet to be a economic study that proves short selling is bad. All the studies that have been done on shorting have all indicated its a positive market influence. To keep the bull market low. Shorting helps regulate the bullish investors so markets dont colapse all the time...
And short selling is not only a tool for "rich people". One of my best ever trades was in 2009 when i shorted a norwegian shipping company that was implicated because of the fall of Lehman brothers. I had a 4x hedged position, i made 279% in the span of a few hours... at this moment in time i was a freshman finance student in college
So no short selling is not a tool for the rich. Its a tool for everyone.
@@mhmhm5337 shorting is a huge tug of war with investors. Usually small investors lose out because they are not able stand seeing decreasing numbers. A good example is gamespot. Hedges shorted it to dollars and only a bunch of small investors were able to push back against a shorter.
@@IronMan-wz8dx nope shorting is regulating and limiting the market. If we did not have anyone shorting and controlling the market we would have massive bubbles all the time. All of the studies on shorting indicate that shorting is good for the market. When we talk about gamestop, gamestop was actually overvalued even at its lowest point. Gamestop is on its way to bankruptcy, they are on a massive decline and their financials indicated they WERE OVERVALUED EVEN AT ITS LOWEST POINT...
And this is how people with deep pockets fight 🥊🥇
Bill Ackman made the move on emotion rather than seeing the strength of the company
a borderline pyramid scheme beat an actual investor. hilariously sad. it's definitely a moral battle but certainly too costly. Not worth it.
Those "bigwigs" have the need... the need for greed. Why don't people with large short positions like that cover half of it if and when the stock drops the first 25% in price? (which could be right after they announce their large short position). For example, if a stock is shorted at $100 average price, cover half of it at $75, so that even if someone got squeezed up to $125, they are back to even Steven and can start over, perhaps re-shorting at a higher price.
You answered your own question. Ackman and Icahn and most of the financial world in general are terminally greedy, no matter the consequences to anyone else.
beaten by a mailbox from the cayman islands. ouch
The big short round 2. RIP HLF
Im curious, why would anyone buy herbalife products from a distributor over simply buying direct from the company at a discount?
Ackman is a media savvy "Pump and Dump" shyster.
The business model is garbage. The product is good, but overpriced. Its not a fraud but... I'm lost as to how the company has made it this far lol
A short-seller taking down a pyramid scheme I'm not sure who to root for.😱
For once, I was rooting for the rich guy.
10:45 That is exaxtly how a former president responded to all negativity. Now that I've heart the pattern and cadence... I know what guilt sounds like at these "untouchable" levels.
0 dislikes, balanced, as all things should be, great video as always :)