So glad I found this one. Got a 56cm Domane and the reach is insane compared to my old 56cm Tarmac. Replaced the standard Bontrager bars with 93mm reach for Deda with a 75mm reach. Went from 44cm width to 40 also. Such a difference!
Loved this one. Thanks James and Francis. My road bike trek Domane sl7 in size 58 came with 44cm wide bars. I love the bike, but the width has been a problem (hands, neck and shoulders suffering all as James mentioned). I would have thought if you spend $4500aud on a bike they'd at least let you choose a bar width.
Don't buy off the peg bikes. They generally come with cheap nasty Shimano groupsets, odd-sized bar and stems, an unsuitable saddle and a crap set of wheels. Buy a frame and build.
I’m 6 feet 1”, I weigh 86kg for the past 27 years I used 42cm. Then last year after researching the benefits I switched to using shallow drop 36cm on all my road bikes. I absolutely love em, anything wider than that for me feels like you’re a parachute.
really interesting, I'm on a 42 but I should probably be on a 40. I rolled in the wrists exactly like was said and had numb hands! Great vid once again Francis, I'm sure the quality of videos will still be really good even in these mexicanbeervirus times!
Cycle Nutter I’ve just changed to a 40, and the improvement was immediately noticeable. Gonna go on a longer ride to see if my hand numbness disappears.
Pleasantly surprised how much I learned from you guys . I've been racing for 35 plus years road and then switched to mtb had no choice since I moved to Costa Rica with dirt roads and now I just bought a gravel (why😅) . so yea good info. Cheers
Tremendous, doing a full winter revamp of my ride height and measurements, this is absolutely invaluable. Suffering on anything longer than a 2 hour ride and I know I have a the capacity of a longer ride, but have so many comfort issues.
Good thing to note is that this kind of logic is used in Office Ergonomics, being fit to a zero gravity recliner, and buying a mattress. It's all about maintaining neutral posture throughout the activities in your life. Whenever your myofascial system is misaligned, especially when introducing repetitive movement (cycling), you accelerate the process of deteriorating your body. Love the way this guy explains this stuff.
Whils't living in Chicago somebody stole my handlebars while I was at work; however, they did replace face plate, bolts, and washers, so there's that. I ended up venturing home on my bike, a fixed gear, single-handed on the quill stem singing "I can ride my bike with no handlebars, no handlebars, no handlebars".
MTB handlebars also associates to balancing. Remember the movie "The Walk"? When people does "Slacklining" (or balancing on rope) they tend to either hold a long stick to balance themselves or just simply put your arms as wide as possible for balancing and stability. Same principle applies to a wider handlebar.
Thankyou for continuing to put out this content Francis. Difficult times ahead for us all, but these short trips out of what is becoming a scary everyday reality, are very appreciated. Best of luck through this to you, Daisy, Lawrence, all at Jame's shop and all the other usual suspects that pop up in your films week on week. Keep clean, keep healthy, and if you can, keep pedaling.
Thanks for the vid. I started reading books about bikefitting, but never heard or seen before about this very simple way to get to the right width. My tip would be, first the handlebar and then the choose the right stem length (min 90mm for road).
drop vs flat For a lot of people who don't cycle much, drop bars feel 'twitchy'. flat bars need a bigger movement of the hands for the same turn. So to an occasional rider, flat bars feel more stable.
Bugga, been comfy for years on a 440 and just got myself a new 440, with flatter tops, though not aero. No wait, I’m about 45/46 shoulder, will get help on measuring my shoulders for peace of mind. Great insight to Handlebars😊👍
One of my favorite bars (and the one I used across all my road/gravel bikes) is the Ritchey Logic Curve - comes in 38-44cm (center-to-center) and is fairly short reach/short drop. It's also ~35USD for an alloy version. I'm a "big rugby guy" and run a 44cm.
Thanks for the video. I have always suspected that my body is telling me that I should swap out my stock 44cm handlebar to slightly reduce the reach of my bike. However, I cannot find other articles online to confirm my suspicion is correct. Now I can experiment with a 38cm bar with slight more confidence.
Finally got a proper fit! Thankfully, my new bike is the right size, tried to get in before I ordered, but it didn't happen. Shorter cranks were the biggest change, so far, I'm loving the tweaks to positioning, so much more comfortable in the saddle and on the hoods!
great explanation of bars, people get sucked in by the marketing hype, rather than a set of bars that truly works for them. Must say, I'm loving the Ursus MAGNUS H.01 integrated bars. Extremely comfortable .
Brilliant vid guys. I do roll my hands inward like you demonstrated, this causes me to lock out my elbows, thus, I get pain in my hands after around 40miles. I also find it more comfortable on one of my bikes to rest my hands a little back from the hoods. One bike has a 90mm stem and one has 100mm. The measurements are the same (as I thought, when measured from saddle to centre of bars. I’ve just measured from tip of saddle to back of hoods and found 30mm difference! Wow I think I’ll try some narrower bars now and see how they go and adjust my saddle setback a little. To get the reach more comfortable.
Just to add, these video are absolutely fantastic at taking our minds off the present health situation and enjoying ( even if it's momentarily) our passion for cycling ! Many thanks Francis, but please don't put yourself at unnecessary risk to make them. :-)
Hey Francis and James! It would be really cool to see an episode addressing leg length discrepancy and how it can be fixed! Thanks for the great content guys!
I find that as you bend your elbows more, your forearms naturally rotate to the outside. It’s why shift levers and aero extensions are designed the way they are. To me it would even make sense to bend the tops of drop bars a little bit to accommodate this natural arm/wrist rotation.
I have 42's 3T ergosum Pro bars on all my road bikes, I find them most comfortable. I cut my mtb bars down to be 2cms wider than my road bars for ease of getting through traffic & fitted bar end grips.
Traditional drop bars were like that purely because that's all they used to be able to bend the quality of tubing at the time. Also as the bikes had quill stems, standard headsets, down tube shifting and Italian square geometry, they were considerably higher. They have no place today where we mainly ride the hoods. Back then we mainly rode in the hooks.
Great video! Would definitely be interested in a take on impact of groupset manufacturers to reach, as well as shifter ergonomics and whether this has fit/bike build implications for different hand sizes ✋.
Got into road cycling 3 months ago. I went into it withought any knowledge about bike fitting. Now I am reverse engineering everything. I am now problem solving my handlebar width. It is too wide. I suffer from neck pain, numb hands and overall discomfort in shoulder / neck / arm area. Thanks to your videos I realised that my wrists are turned inwards on handlebars. That I actually ride with my elbows away from my body like you would on a mountain bike because my handlebar is too wide. After I sort that out, I will have to look at the stem because I am convinced that I am over reaching. There is way too much body weight on my arms.
I definitely learned a lot from this video. And it’s coming out at a time where I am trying to choose the right bar and stem combination for my newly delivered Rondo Ruut CF2. Keep the vids coming mate, and stay safe
My Trek Emonda came with Bontrager of course. In the drops and sprinting out of the saddle, my wrists would hit the bar. They were also uncomfortable on the tops. Replaced with Deda Superleggera and what a difference!
Would be interesting to hear James' opinion about the more fronted-fitting (0-offset posts, slammed saddles etc.) like you see with pro racers for smaller individuals.
I have watched this video a few times now and something has just clicked. I have been having all sorts of problems with my neck and shoulders and after many visits to the quacks, have not found what is causing the problem. I have 3 road bikes two have 44cm bars and one with 42cm bar. The measurement of the shoulders demonstrated here for me is 40 to 41cm. Like almost everyone that buys a bike will probably take it for granted that the bar fitted by the manufacturer is the right bar, me included. After watching this video and listening to James it appears that I am riding with the wrong width bar certainly on two out of three of the bikes. I also find I roll the wrists on the wider bar! I have now ordered new bars and stems. I am not saying that this one thing is the cause of the shoulder and neck issues I have as I do suffer with arthritis, I am 57 and things are wearing out a little! But I bet that some of the pain is attributed to the bars! I will be sure to let you know if it makes a difference. Great BFT guys, as usual simple no nonsense explanation from James. 👍😊🚴♂️
I'm quite a slender guy so I installed a 38 cm bar which should align with my shoulders but I noticed that i had the tendency to push my elbows out and my shoulders got stiff as I tried to keep them in. I now installed a 40 cm bar with the hoods slightly turned inwards and my position feels perfect.
My theory on why traditional bend bars went away was that compacts allow people to use a longer and more slammed stem, which makes them feel cooler. Plus brake levers got more effective and ergonomic when braking from the hoods, so inflexible MAMILs decided they didn't need to use the drops anymore.
Thank Dog he dispels the idea that MTB bars are inherently more comfortable. I hate them. The last time I liked flat bars was when I had essentially cowhorns and L-shaped brake levers that followed the bend. Jones H-bars are the closed I've come to not hating flats.
In my 70s, I went back to straight bars to reduce back ache. It ends up being quite an expensive conversion because of Shimano's different pull ratios for their various components.
Flat bars ftw. I've never gotten handlebar palsy with flat bars, only with drop bars. It happened twice, once for each hand on separate occasions, took about a couple of months to regain full control for each of my hands.
There was so mucho more to talk about. Carbon vs alloy in terms of comfort. Aero vs round. Cable integration. Even finding the best diameter of handlebar. There is a car I think from Ritchey called the 35, which supposedly makes it more ergonomic due to the bigger diameter.
First and foremost I've gotta say I love BikeFitTuesdays! However, I'm confused by reach being measured from the nose of the saddle. Aren't the length of saddles different, some with shorter noses than others? In my mind, measuring from the centre of the seatpost makes more sense. What am I missing?
@@Lukas-zd3sn Good point. I'm still confused as to why the tip of the nose is the place to measure from.though . Presumably, your reach varies depending on the saddle used.
This has always confused me to. I would have thought you measured from the back of the saddle as that's where you sit. As others have said the nose varies, but you normally always sit at the back of the saddle.
I assume you'd want to measure fit based on the saddle you use. Measuring from the seat post wouldn't do much good if you're sliding the seat around while dialing in the fit.
Yeah, I remember when I first change from 3T Aeronova (reach=104mm) to Zipp Sl-70 Aero (reach=70mm) for the first time. I also need to switch from 90mm stem to 120mm stem just to feel about right reach wise. I'm more aware of bar reach since then.
@@Penalist Yes, but not as much as my newer Specialized Aerofly II. Zipp has a small amount of flare which make drop almost 2cm wider than hood (1cm extend each side). Specialized is straight, 38cm both on hood and drop in my case. While top wing isn't slippery on Zipp Sl-70 aero, Specialized Aerofly II's grippy texture is simply grippier.
THis is awesome advice, thanks. I ride a size L Gravelbike (we all know the handlebars on those are ginormous and after almost two years of oning it i dont really understand the slanted drop bar) aand i ride a size L road bike. Both the handlebar widths are 44cm. I just measured my shoulders and they are 40cm apart. I was in shock first but luckily used handlebars arent that expensive
Regarding flared bars, I ended up with flared normal width (40cm) bars due to goofy wrists. My ulna’s are too short (bad manufacturing, and out of warranty), so my hands don’t rotate as much as a normal person, basically my hands won’t go flat to accept change if you want to visualize the issue. Normal drops are at the limit of my natural wrist rotation, and the TFC likes to flare up if I ride the hoods at that angle for any length of time. Flared bars and toeing in the controls looks goofy, but has made things tolerable to ride a road bike. All of my non-road bikes are setup flat bars with heavily swept bars due to the same problem at the other end of wrist rotation. 35-45 degrees of sweep work quite well (long days bikepacking without hand pain), 17 is marginal, and anything truly straight is unbearable. Once you get away from traditional drop bars and rail straight flat bars there is a whole world of Alt-bars that are worth exploring for those of us that are a little goofy, or not interested in being on the competition oriented side of cycling.
I've been struggling with neck pain no matter how close or far away i put my seat, and no matter what stem height. My bike came with a 42cm causing me to splay my elbows out more, I think going down to a 38 would make a big difference.
Will probably switch to the more compact 3T Ergonova (now called Superergo I think) from my stock Bontrager bars, feel like I just need to decrease the reach a tiny bit and the flatter top is an added bonus.
I’d argue there’s an ergonomic argument for a bit of flare in drop bars. Riding on the drops. The flare is more naturally aligned to the angle of the hands. I find it gives more confidence , control and less stress on the hands
Probably. In my case if I'm on the drops then my elbows are bent too (in a bid to get lower) and my arms are at a completely different angle - there's probably a better design out there entirely ... Undiscovered!
Francis Cade i have some no-name 38mm flared drops which are really comfy on the road bike and cowbells on the gravel. I experimented with ridiculously wide and flared bars, screwed my back but found the flare came into its own on descents. So now sensible width mild flare for me. Great point about the reach impacting stem choice too.
Is it worth converting my Hybrid to have drop bars. If so, what is the cheapest way of doing it? 1-I was thinking to just change the bars but keep the MTB style thumb shifter and brakes so I literally just change the bar. 2- hangs the bar and the brakes but keep the shifter 3- bullhorns with the MTB shifter and brake
OK, I get the argument as far as it applies to drop bars and I agree with the no-no flat bars and Evo grips, a solution in search of a problem I feel. But what about really traditional North Road bars/ I have a set on my road bike and find that I do not suffer from numb or painful hands, or wrists as I am allowed to sit more upright and the grip position is natural. let me explain. If you stand upright, as the video shows and just swing your arms forward naturally, two things happen, both of which are the result of millions of years of natural selection it would appear. First, the arms are not straight and locked but with slightly open elbow joints and a shallow angle between the upper arm and forearm, secondly, the hands themselves fall into a slightly off vertical position with a little bit of vertical flare-out from the top to the bottom of the palm. North Road bars allow both these natural positions and neck, wrist and palm pains disappear. Have you any comments on these observations?
That’a exactly my problem. Super long bars reach and 80mm stem... plus it’s a 44 so Lots of discomfort. Switching my bars on Monday for 40cms with short reach and also positioning the control less flat
I loved your video it taught me a lot. I am building my first bike with a framed carbon fiber frame. I live by the beach where there are lots of people on the bike paths along the beach. I have only ever had a flat handled bar. When building this new bike I am trying to determine how much maneuverability I would loose if I switch to those non flat variety. I have to brake quite often because people don’t pay attention on those paths by the beach. Because of the brake position on the curved handle bars does it make it more difficult to ride in a densely populated area?
To measure your shoulder width. Get some bars off the bike, grab the drops, then look at your forearms. If they're pointing inwards your shoulders are wider than that set of bars. Also the Eminem Francis needs to make a comeback
update : fsa has a 34 cm c t o center hoods and 36cm c to center drops handlebars, fsa acr super compact , integration disc di2 ready , 255 gr , great drops shape, 70 reach 120mm drop, buy it people
Now there’s a bloke who actually knows what he’s talking about ... lovely to see. I actually looked to see what he charges for a bike fit and some would say “not cheap” but then I’ve paid a lot more for a call out of an emergency plumber (who was rubbish) and when you consider what you may pay for a bike you’ll be on for hours, divide those more efficient and comfortable hours by the cost, it’s basically nit shit and will also protect old fat people like me from hurting themselves more than they already have done. Sadly, I couldn’t go anyway or ride again here even if I did till the annoying germ is under control. Would pay for it myself and I’m no sort of performance athlete being about 115 kg and pushing 56 yrs old now. More like a “lack of performance athlete” now.
The newer(well, what, 20-some years old now?) brake-shifter hood designs don't really seem to work as well with the older traditional drop-bar handlebar shapes. The newer short reach shallow drop designs make a nice flat bar to hood transition area that is more comfortable.
I wonder why it is that the bike companies spec such wide bars. I would’ve thought the cost saving of a couple cm’s on every bar produced would be motivation enough to spec shorter bars rather than what they provide now.
Love Jame's logical and clear explanations of all things bike fit.
I was going to say something along those lines, but you said it perfectly
Agreed. He has a true gift!
So glad I found this one. Got a 56cm Domane and the reach is insane compared to my old 56cm Tarmac. Replaced the standard Bontrager bars with 93mm reach for Deda with a 75mm reach. Went from 44cm width to 40 also. Such a difference!
I love the way Jamie explains things. I’ve learned a hell of a lot, by watching these videos.
Really wonderful, in depth information. I've been riding a 42 for over 15 years. This video prompted me to be measured. That's right, I'm a 40....
Just got a new bike off eBay, did a 2hr ride today and was so comfortable. Turns out I have been riding a 54cm when I needed a 52 with narrower bars!
Yep, been there, done that.
Loved this one. Thanks James and Francis. My road bike trek Domane sl7 in size 58 came with 44cm wide bars. I love the bike, but the width has been a problem (hands, neck and shoulders suffering all as James mentioned). I would have thought if you spend $4500aud on a bike they'd at least let you choose a bar width.
This is the very problem with buying bikes from big american bike manufacturers and why i specialise and focus on custom bikes
Don't buy off the peg bikes. They generally come with cheap nasty Shimano groupsets, odd-sized bar and stems, an unsuitable saddle and a crap set of wheels. Buy a frame and build.
my trek dealer fitted the bike to me and swapped items (stem) free of charge. They would have changed handlebars too i reckon.
I have a trek checkpoint with similar issues 😢 tine to swap the bars
Thanks for the vid on cleat position guys!
Turned my heels in by 10mm, based on James' rant and the sitbone pain was gone! 🥳👍👍
I found the traditional drop bars a way better when sprinting out of the saddle in the drops. It keeps my wrists at a straight angle. Great video !👍
I’m 6 feet 1”, I weigh 86kg for the past 27 years I used 42cm. Then last year after researching the benefits I switched to using shallow drop 36cm on all my road bikes. I absolutely love em, anything wider than that for me feels like you’re a parachute.
What brand do you use? Thanks!
@@AdrielDamoneTv I use two different brands. Enigma and Specialized. I believe Hoy also produce one.
@@jiyon167 Nice! Can you name the exact one you use? I’m having a hard time finding decent 36mm handlebars
@@AdrielDamoneTv no idea. There are no exact model designations. Try Ebay there is plenty of 36cm bars on there.
really interesting, I'm on a 42 but I should probably be on a 40. I rolled in the wrists exactly like was said and had numb hands! Great vid once again Francis, I'm sure the quality of videos will still be really good even in these mexicanbeervirus times!
Cycle Nutter I’m also a 40 on a 42 bar. Have you changed your handlebars? If so, how was it?
Jonathan Gapay I’m on a new bike now, and it feels ok 👌 . But my shoulders have broadened a little bit 🤪 not in the last few months, but getting there
Cycle Nutter I’ve just changed to a 40, and the improvement was immediately noticeable. Gonna go on a longer ride to see if my hand numbness disappears.
Jonathan Gapay oh nice man 🤟
@@jonathangapay1724 hey, so what is long term update? Did 40 cm bar work out well?
Oh James ......I love it when you talk like that. Thanks Mr Cade stay safe and healthy
Pleasantly surprised how much I learned from you guys . I've been racing for 35 plus years road and then switched to mtb had no choice since I moved to Costa Rica with dirt roads and now I just bought a gravel (why😅) . so yea good info. Cheers
Tremendous, doing a full winter revamp of my ride height and measurements, this is absolutely invaluable. Suffering on anything longer than a 2 hour ride and I know I have a the capacity of a longer ride, but have so many comfort issues.
Good thing to note is that this kind of logic is used in Office Ergonomics, being fit to a zero gravity recliner, and buying a mattress. It's all about maintaining neutral posture throughout the activities in your life. Whenever your myofascial system is misaligned, especially when introducing repetitive movement (cycling), you accelerate the process of deteriorating your body. Love the way this guy explains this stuff.
Whils't living in Chicago somebody stole my handlebars while I was at work; however, they did replace face plate, bolts, and washers, so there's that. I ended up venturing home on my bike, a fixed gear, single-handed on the quill stem singing "I can ride my bike with no handlebars, no handlebars, no handlebars".
MTB handlebars also associates to balancing. Remember the movie "The Walk"? When people does "Slacklining" (or balancing on rope) they tend to either hold a long stick to balance themselves or just simply put your arms as wide as possible for balancing and stability. Same principle applies to a wider handlebar.
Huh, never thought anything about handlebar, just went well with the stock bar that came with merida, compact sort of type? I guess
Thankyou for continuing to put out this content Francis. Difficult times ahead for us all, but these short trips out of what
is becoming a scary everyday reality, are very appreciated. Best of luck through this to you, Daisy, Lawrence, all at Jame's shop and all the other usual suspects that pop up in your films week on week. Keep clean, keep healthy, and if you can, keep pedaling.
Thanks for the vid. I started reading books about bikefitting, but never heard or seen before about this very simple way to get to the right width. My tip would be, first the handlebar and then the choose the right stem length (min 90mm for road).
James shoe game is on point. Dress shoes everyday.
drop vs flat
For a lot of people who don't cycle much, drop bars feel 'twitchy'. flat bars need a bigger movement of the hands for the same turn. So to an occasional rider, flat bars feel more stable.
Bugga, been comfy for years on a 440 and just got myself a new 440, with flatter tops, though not aero. No wait, I’m about 45/46 shoulder, will get help on measuring my shoulders for peace of mind. Great insight to Handlebars😊👍
One of my favorite bars (and the one I used across all my road/gravel bikes) is the Ritchey Logic Curve - comes in 38-44cm (center-to-center) and is fairly short reach/short drop. It's also ~35USD for an alloy version. I'm a "big rugby guy" and run a 44cm.
Thanks for the video. I have always suspected that my body is telling me that I should swap out my stock 44cm handlebar to slightly reduce the reach of my bike. However, I cannot find other articles online to confirm my suspicion is correct. Now I can experiment with a 38cm bar with slight more confidence.
Finally got a proper fit! Thankfully, my new bike is the right size, tried to get in before I ordered, but it didn't happen. Shorter cranks were the biggest change, so far, I'm loving the tweaks to positioning, so much more comfortable in the saddle and on the hoods!
great explanation of bars, people get sucked in by the marketing hype, rather than a set of bars that truly works for them. Must say, I'm loving the Ursus MAGNUS H.01 integrated bars. Extremely comfortable .
Bike shop tour? That Independent Fabrication ti bike looked Nnnniiiicccceeee!
it's stainless steel but yes it is Nnnniiiicccceeee!
This was a sweet video. Helped me understand some of my struggles on my current setup
Brilliant vid guys. I do roll my hands inward like you demonstrated, this causes me to lock out my elbows, thus, I get pain in my hands after around 40miles.
I also find it more comfortable on one of my bikes to rest my hands a little back from the hoods. One bike has a 90mm stem and one has 100mm. The measurements are the same (as I thought, when measured from saddle to centre of bars. I’ve just measured from tip of saddle to back of hoods and found 30mm difference! Wow I think I’ll try some narrower bars now and see how they go and adjust my saddle setback a little. To get the reach more comfortable.
Just to add, these video are absolutely fantastic at taking our minds off the present health situation and enjoying ( even if it's momentarily) our passion for cycling ! Many thanks Francis, but please don't put yourself at unnecessary risk to make them. :-)
How to replicate a cleat position on different shoes would be a good one.....
I wouldnt step foot in that shop because I'd give all my savings to James 😆. Boy knows it all, can see the passion in it
Hey Francis and James! It would be really cool to see an episode addressing leg length discrepancy and how it can be fixed! Thanks for the great content guys!
Good one - we'll do this
Bikefit James thanks! I actually sent you an IG dm about this topic exactly 👌🏻
I find that as you bend your elbows more, your forearms naturally rotate to the outside. It’s why shift levers and aero extensions are designed the way they are. To me it would even make sense to bend the tops of drop bars a little bit to accommodate this natural arm/wrist rotation.
I have 42's 3T ergosum Pro bars on all my road bikes, I find them most comfortable. I cut my mtb bars down to be 2cms wider than my road bars for ease of getting through traffic & fitted bar end grips.
Traditional drop bars were like that purely because that's all they used to be able to bend the quality of tubing at the time. Also as the bikes had quill stems, standard
headsets, down tube shifting and Italian square geometry, they were considerably higher. They have no place today where we mainly ride the hoods. Back then we mainly rode in the hooks.
Great episode! I've always had problems with 90's bikes with traditional handlebars and sti levers due to the excessive reach.
Thanks for the video.... Always learn something from James.
Great video! Would definitely be interested in a take on impact of groupset manufacturers to reach, as well as shifter ergonomics and whether this has fit/bike build implications for different hand sizes ✋.
the most expensive one that this video was sponsored by is of course the best.
James' definitively got some sweet bikes there
As much as I like listening to James I was drawn to the Look bike hanging on the wall.
Ian Brewer it’s for sale, make me an offer
Bikefit James Tempting......🤔
Got into road cycling 3 months ago. I went into it withought any knowledge about bike fitting.
Now I am reverse engineering everything.
I am now problem solving my handlebar width. It is too wide.
I suffer from neck pain, numb hands and overall discomfort in shoulder / neck / arm area.
Thanks to your videos I realised that my wrists are turned inwards on handlebars. That I actually ride with my elbows away from my body like you would on a mountain bike because my handlebar is too wide.
After I sort that out, I will have to look at the stem because I am convinced that I am over reaching. There is way too much body weight on my arms.
I definitely learned a lot from this video. And it’s coming out at a time where I am trying to choose the right bar and stem combination for my newly delivered Rondo Ruut CF2. Keep the vids coming mate, and stay safe
Great stuff, hope the build goes smoothly!
Deda has the best feel bars for me personally. I love their Alanera cockpit
Thank you James, I learned a lot with this one.
If ever in England, i gotta see this store and meet James. What an interesting fellow!
My Trek Emonda came with Bontrager of course. In the drops and sprinting out of the saddle, my wrists would hit the bar. They were also uncomfortable on the tops. Replaced with Deda Superleggera and what a difference!
Wait wasn’t James wearing the same shirt last time?
sometimes we do a shirt swap to pretend it's different days... 👀
I think you're right - I was. It was over a week ago!
I'd be less worried about a shirt....
glenn oc dude he was wearing the same t-shirt two days in a row!
@@rohemoriyama hell try bije touring ive worn the same kit for 3 to 5 days straight. Marvellous stuff lynx 48hr and s can of fabreeze can do😉
Lots of good insight for a seemingly simple component
I am saving for bike fit with James! Love these Bikefittuesdays, so informative. 👍🙂🚴
my wife gave me the go ahead to start planning a trip to the uk just for a bike fit with james!
I am SO excited for my bike fit on Thursday!!!
Would be interesting to hear James' opinion about the more fronted-fitting (0-offset posts, slammed saddles etc.) like you see with pro racers for smaller individuals.
steadfast_ what’s a slammed saddle...?
@@ianbrown_ a saddle that is as far forward as possible on the saddle rails.
Nice! It seems the person knows what they talking about, I hope I can pass by to see the shop and get some advice.
I have watched this video a few times now and something has just clicked. I have been having all sorts of problems with my neck and shoulders and after many visits to the quacks, have not found what is causing the problem. I have 3 road bikes two have 44cm bars and one with 42cm bar. The measurement of the shoulders demonstrated here for me is 40 to 41cm. Like almost everyone that buys a bike will probably take it for granted that the bar fitted by the manufacturer is the right bar, me included. After watching this video and listening to James it appears that I am riding with the wrong width bar certainly on two out of three of the bikes. I also find I roll the wrists on the wider bar! I have now ordered new bars and stems. I am not saying that this one thing is the cause of the shoulder and neck issues I have as I do suffer with arthritis, I am 57 and things are wearing out a little! But I bet that some of the pain is attributed to the bars! I will be sure to let you know if it makes a difference. Great BFT guys, as usual simple no nonsense explanation from James. 👍😊🚴♂️
I'm quite a slender guy so I installed a 38 cm bar which should align with my shoulders but I noticed that i had the tendency to push my elbows out and my shoulders got stiff as I tried to keep them in. I now installed a 40 cm bar with the hoods slightly turned inwards and my position feels perfect.
My theory on why traditional bend bars went away was that compacts allow people to use a longer and more slammed stem, which makes them feel cooler. Plus brake levers got more effective and ergonomic when braking from the hoods, so inflexible MAMILs decided they didn't need to use the drops anymore.
Perhaps.
I'm surprised more cycling gear isn't design for inflexible mamils though, considering most cyclists are inflexible mamils.
Well done James! Great video Francis
Thank Dog he dispels the idea that MTB bars are inherently more comfortable. I hate them. The last time I liked flat bars was when I had essentially cowhorns and L-shaped brake levers that followed the bend. Jones H-bars are the closed I've come to not hating flats.
Nice vid, man. Send my regards to Chris as well. Seems like a nice bloke.
In my 70s, I went back to straight bars to reduce back ache. It ends up being quite an expensive conversion because of Shimano's different pull ratios for their various components.
Flat bars ftw. I've never gotten handlebar palsy with flat bars, only with drop bars. It happened twice, once for each hand on separate occasions, took about a couple of months to regain full control for each of my hands.
There was so mucho more to talk about. Carbon vs alloy in terms of comfort. Aero vs round. Cable integration. Even finding the best diameter of handlebar. There is a car I think from Ritchey called the 35, which supposedly makes it more ergonomic due to the bigger diameter.
Yeah this could be a very long video
First and foremost I've gotta say I love BikeFitTuesdays! However, I'm confused by reach being measured from the nose of the saddle. Aren't the length of saddles different, some with shorter noses than others? In my mind, measuring from the centre of the seatpost makes more sense. What am I missing?
Center of seatpost veries just as much as you move the saddle for and backwards.
@@Lukas-zd3sn Good point. I'm still confused as to why the tip of the nose is the place to measure from.though . Presumably, your reach varies depending on the saddle used.
This has always confused me to. I would have thought you measured from the back of the saddle as that's where you sit. As others have said the nose varies, but you normally always sit at the back of the saddle.
I assume you'd want to measure fit based on the saddle you use. Measuring from the seat post wouldn't do much good if you're sliding the seat around while dialing in the fit.
New road bike came with 44cm bars, changed to 38cm and it’s way more comfortable!
Thanks Francis and James. Thumbs up 👍👍👍
Brilliant, concise and easy to understand.
this guy knows so much about bikes :o
Yeah, I remember when I first change from 3T Aeronova (reach=104mm) to Zipp Sl-70 Aero (reach=70mm) for the first time. I also need to switch from 90mm stem to 120mm stem just to feel about right reach wise. I'm more aware of bar reach since then.
Do you like the Zipp-bars?
@@Penalist Yes, but not as much as my newer Specialized Aerofly II. Zipp has a small amount of flare which make drop almost 2cm wider than hood (1cm extend each side). Specialized is straight, 38cm both on hood and drop in my case.
While top wing isn't slippery on Zipp Sl-70 aero, Specialized Aerofly II's grippy texture is simply grippier.
Any chance of a video on where to position controls on handlebars? How high, how low etc..
Great video, great explanations. Thanks as ever.
Hadn't even thought of using the handlebars to alter the reach of the bike - thanks
THis is awesome advice, thanks.
I ride a size L Gravelbike (we all know the handlebars on those are ginormous and after almost two years of oning it i dont really understand the slanted drop bar)
aand i ride a size L road bike.
Both the handlebar widths are 44cm.
I just measured my shoulders and they are 40cm apart.
I was in shock first but luckily used handlebars arent that expensive
Love these vids!! That Indy Fab is gorgeous!!
Regarding flared bars, I ended up with flared normal width (40cm) bars due to goofy wrists. My ulna’s are too short (bad manufacturing, and out of warranty), so my hands don’t rotate as much as a normal person, basically my hands won’t go flat to accept change if you want to visualize the issue. Normal drops are at the limit of my natural wrist rotation, and the TFC likes to flare up if I ride the hoods at that angle for any length of time. Flared bars and toeing in the controls looks goofy, but has made things tolerable to ride a road bike. All of my non-road bikes are setup flat bars with heavily swept bars due to the same problem at the other end of wrist rotation. 35-45 degrees of sweep work quite well (long days bikepacking without hand pain), 17 is marginal, and anything truly straight is unbearable.
Once you get away from traditional drop bars and rail straight flat bars there is a whole world of Alt-bars that are worth exploring for those of us that are a little goofy, or not interested in being on the competition oriented side of cycling.
I've been struggling with neck pain no matter how close or far away i put my seat, and no matter what stem height. My bike came with a 42cm causing me to splay my elbows out more, I think going down to a 38 would make a big difference.
This was my video ☺️ danke!
40 Thomson carbon road bars for me 🤙🏼 Found the perfect bars
Really excellent video guys !! Loads of info
Will probably switch to the more compact 3T Ergonova (now called Superergo I think) from my stock Bontrager bars, feel like I just need to decrease the reach a tiny bit and the flatter top is an added bonus.
I’d argue there’s an ergonomic argument for a bit of flare in drop bars. Riding on the drops. The flare is more naturally aligned to the angle of the hands. I find it gives more confidence , control and less stress on the hands
Probably.
In my case if I'm on the drops then my elbows are bent too (in a bid to get lower) and my arms are at a completely different angle - there's probably a better design out there entirely ... Undiscovered!
Francis Cade i have some no-name 38mm flared drops which are really comfy on the road bike and cowbells on the gravel. I experimented with ridiculously wide and flared bars, screwed my back but found the flare came into its own on descents. So now sensible width mild flare for me. Great point about the reach impacting stem choice too.
Is it worth converting my Hybrid to have drop bars. If so, what is the cheapest way of doing it?
1-I was thinking to just change the bars but keep the MTB style thumb shifter and brakes so I literally just change the bar.
2- hangs the bar and the brakes but keep the shifter
3- bullhorns with the MTB shifter and brake
OK, I get the argument as far as it applies to drop bars and I agree with the no-no flat bars and Evo grips, a solution in search of a problem I feel. But what about really traditional North Road bars/ I have a set on my road bike and find that I do not suffer from numb or painful hands, or wrists as I am allowed to sit more upright and the grip position is natural. let me explain. If you stand upright, as the video shows and just swing your arms forward naturally, two things happen, both of which are the result of millions of years of natural selection it would appear. First, the arms are not straight and locked but with slightly open elbow joints and a shallow angle between the upper arm and forearm, secondly, the hands themselves fall into a slightly off vertical position with a little bit of vertical flare-out from the top to the bottom of the palm. North Road bars allow both these natural positions and neck, wrist and palm pains disappear. Have you any comments on these observations?
That’a exactly my problem. Super long bars reach and 80mm stem... plus it’s a 44 so Lots of discomfort. Switching my bars on Monday for 40cms with short reach and also positioning the control less flat
Very educational, thanks lads!
I just can't climb well (I could probably end the sentence here) with a flat handlebar. I feel my arm bones contacting! haha
Don’t sweat it. At this point we hardly know what day of the week it is anyway.
haha
I think 40 cm is sweet spot for racing bikes.
You need to consider steering and cornering also.
I loved your video it taught me a lot. I am building my first bike with a framed carbon fiber frame. I live by the beach where there are lots of people on the bike paths along the beach. I have only ever had a flat handled bar. When building this new bike I am trying to determine how much maneuverability I would loose if I switch to those non flat variety. I have to brake quite often because people don’t pay attention on those paths by the beach. Because of the brake position on the curved handle bars does it make it more difficult to ride in a densely populated area?
Not really, but you have to keep them covered, ie. fingers on the lever ready to brake.
To measure your shoulder width. Get some bars off the bike, grab the drops, then look at your forearms. If they're pointing inwards your shoulders are wider than that set of bars.
Also the Eminem Francis needs to make a comeback
update : fsa has a 34 cm c t o center hoods and 36cm c to center drops handlebars, fsa acr super compact , integration disc di2 ready , 255 gr , great drops shape, 70 reach 120mm drop, buy it people
Now there’s a bloke who actually knows what he’s talking about ... lovely to see.
I actually looked to see what he charges for a bike fit and some would say “not cheap” but then I’ve paid a lot more for a call out of an emergency plumber (who was rubbish) and when you consider what you may pay for a bike you’ll be on for hours, divide those more efficient and comfortable hours by the cost, it’s basically nit shit and will also protect old fat people like me from hurting themselves more than they already have done.
Sadly, I couldn’t go anyway or ride again here even if I did till the annoying germ is under control. Would pay for it myself and I’m no sort of performance athlete being about 115 kg and pushing 56 yrs old now. More like a “lack of performance athlete” now.
The newer(well, what, 20-some years old now?) brake-shifter hood designs don't really seem to work as well with the older traditional drop-bar handlebar shapes. The newer short reach shallow drop designs make a nice flat bar to hood transition area that is more comfortable.
I wonder why it is that the bike companies spec such wide bars. I would’ve thought the cost saving of a couple cm’s on every bar produced would be motivation enough to spec shorter bars rather than what they provide now.
Haha!
Yeah it doesn't make sense. At least 40cm on S/M/L sizes would be a good start
Excellent points made, thanks!
Love your Videos, wish I lived near the shop to get a proper fitting
A proper Bar Tape tutorial would be appreciated.
I had a customer refuse to believe me with regards to reach of a handlebar. and that 2 handlebars with 75mm reach were different.