I went to get a fit at podium multisport. The guy there mostly knows what he is doing and has been fitting bikes for quite a while. I did get a TT fit and he proportionally does more Tri fits but he is a great vetted bike fitter
From what I've learned watching these videos... it's nearly impossible to come up with an algorithm to do that. You need to see how someone moves on the bike. Anthropometric data is only one component but even in that, there's so many variables such as build type (how much weight are you carrying on your torso, you can have two people with the same measurements that are carrying different loads) and then there's joint geometry, flexibility, injuries, personal objectives and riding style, etc. that I don't think this can be distilled into a simple formula. It could probably be done with machine learning but the cost of the research required to build that AI... it's unlikely there's profit in that. Velogicfit, Retul et al. has attempted to mass produce bike fit with motion capture. They can provide useful data in terms of pinpointing specifics in movement that less experienced fitters might not notice but it still requires dynamic analysis, and not static analysis. What I'd like to know is... when I go in for a pre-purchase bike fit, how can I tell if the fitter has done things properly, especially if I've been riding on an improperly-sized frame for so long that I've adapted to how it feels? Will I just know what a good fit feels like? I recently did this and the geometry the fitter came up with felt cramped to me... but maybe that would ultimately be more comfortable?
Well..... Maybe choose a frame which fits within the parameters you got from your bite fit. A smaller frame can be fitted by using stem, spacers, saddle height, comfortable versus aggressive riding styles etc. For a larger frame extending parameters, you first need a chainsaw.....
Thanks as always James and Francis. As a retailer but not a bike fitter, I can say a few things. Yes, it is _very_ expensive to buy a bike that is too big. But it has two other effects: you will never get your own optimal performance on it, and you can cause yourself injuries. There is one more thing I'd add. Many customers have a "big bike" mindset. They expect a certain size bike, and that size is too big. So they resist a smaller size frame. One can do many things to adapt a small frame to a rider, but you can't just cut a chunk off a large frame to make it smaller. So err on the small side. And personally I find a small frame is just a lot more fun.
This is the best video I've seen, so far, about bike sizing. Some people are making me feel inferior for choosing a 50cm Trek bike. I am only 5'7". The Trek computer sizing had me as 56." I tried the 56 and fell hitting my head. For two weeks I had severe neck pain from the fall. I was torn between 50 and 52, but felt very comfortable on 50. This video gave me self-reassurance. Thank you so much.
Recently found this channel and it made me question my recently bought crazy expensive supersix. I am now stuck between wanting to know more and not wanting to know more.
@@134513214 that's not true. I happily rode my bike for 3 months and then I got a bike fit. Turns out my seat was 2 inches too low. After the fit and subsequent adjustments I was far more efficient, comfortable and happier.
I’m 5’ 10” and on a “51” with a 53mm virtual top tube. I came off a 56 that felt wayyy to big. I happen to really like the 51 but have always felt vaguely guilty for being on a bike that was “too small”. This video makes me feel better!
I'm 168cm in height and most size charts tell me to buy a Small bike. I bought one with a 53cm top tube and it was way too long even with an 80mm stem and 65mm short reach bars. I ride XS now which isn't meant to be for my height. Size charts make no sense to me either.
I'm choosing now between a 48cm Cervelo Caledonia and a 51. On paper, the 51 is the bike for me but riding them, the 48 just feels way better. Granted, the spacers are under the stem but I just feel much better on the 48 than the 51. I'm 5'6" by the way.
I remember walking into a bike shop 5 years ago with my L (58cm top tube) bike. The guy in the shop told me that bike is small(!) for me and advised me to change it. Today I'm riding a 54 cm top tube bike that I bought after a bike fit considering why I'll use it for and my limits. Can't be happier. Good advices!
Agree with your suggested approach. I'm 6 feet tall, inseam of almost 80cm, according to most bike fit sizes, 56 or 58 cm have been regularly suggested. I have been basing size on seat setback and my desired reach, taking into account seat to bar drop.... This has now landed me commonly on a 54cm....validated!!
the only issue i have with using a fit bike is that anyone can "feel good" on a stationary bike for a 20 min spin. let me know how you feel after 2 hours and then you'll see what hurts and where the fit is off. i can hold a pro tour position for 20 mins, but i wouldn't go off that position.
Dude, these fit are 3hrs or more and the follow up is an hour. Trust me, my fit was a workout. I agree that due to lack of cant left or right the true measure isn’t felt until the open road, hence the follow up.
James. You are a legend. You have explained so many more relevant conditions affecting bike frame sizes than anyone i know. Thanks for the straight talk. You really do help us all out here in bikesville. Francis, keep up the great work. We all appreciate it.
So glad i came across this channel. I am Also 5'10 and have been riding 54cm Cannondales for a few years because people have my size always ride 54cm. I once had a cannondale Caad Saeco in 52cm and it was indeed very comfy. Now that i see you talking about 52cm i will go for that size would be nice to see your bike set up knowing you are my height. Great channel im glad i came across you guys. Keep it up!.👍
@dannyhernandez434 Hi! I'm 5'8 and am planning to purchase a Rose Backroad 51 cm (my first gravel). Do you think it's the right size or would I need a bigger size like 53cm?
I'm 6'7" and recently bought myself a Canyon bike. I assumed I'd need an XXL since, you know, I'm about as tall as they come, but on a whim I went for a bike pre-fit. I'm so glad I did, since based on that I was told I'd actually need an XL, and now that I've had the full fit with my new bike I can see that an XXL would have been too big. Definitely worth the money.
@@Schmotzky Can you share your inseam as well ? I'm exactly 6'1'' (185cm), but I have very long legs compared to my torso (90cm inseam). I'm on the fence between an L and an M Grail 7 AL...
I'm similar to James. I'm 176cm and always look for a size 52. The problem I find is that they often have very short headtubes. I got lucky with my first road bike. A Trek Madone from 2011. Which is essentially the same geometry as todays Domane. This video confirms that I've been choosing right all along. Cheers!
Then a 52 doesn't fit you! you got "lucky" and the video doesn't confirm your right at all, what it proves is you have a short leg and long torso or arms and you have to pick a comprise. I have a long torso and short arms for my hight but i have to pick a medium as i get too much toe overlap otherwise. so my cockpit is very compacted
I am 1.83m (6ft) and just changed from a very nice fitting 54cm gravel frameset to a different one in 58cm. i have choosen the bigger one because i wanted more space in the frame triangle for bottles and bags and no toe overlap with big tires. the new frame has 54mm(!) higher stack and 39mm more reach. yet by not using spacers, a more negative 20mm shorter stem and a seatpost with no setback i got all contact points within millimeters of the old bike. i sit exactly the same on it and am very happy. with the shorter stem the overall burlier bike even feels nimbler than i had hoped for. so i think one should not totally overemphasize the bike frame size, you can always adjust it to your needs. it only gets problematic when its too small and you cant add more spacers, or the other way around and you cant stand over the toptube anymore.
I'm no PRO , 53 yrs old and always ridden bikes . One thing I've learned , it's a minefield . Personally at 5.8" , I go Small all day long over Medium even if M is recommended size .
Well, I'm almost 6'1" (1.85 m) with an 89 cm inseam, I ride a 59 cm Bianchi Infinito (57.5 cm TT, 12 cm stem), and I love it. Chose the bike by TT length, the "racier" sister model Oltre XR4 has a longer TT and shorter steerer tube and felt much too long for me.
I struggle with road bike size a lot... I'm 5'10.5 and ride a 56 tarmac sl6. I seriously considered a 54, but I felt like the stack was not enough for my flexibility. I'm a Cat 3-4 rider and ride 10-15 hrs/week. On the 56, I use 30mm of stem spacers, a 110 stem, and 0 offset seatpost. I can maintain a nice aero position on the hoods with elbows at 70-90 angle and can ride in the drops indefinitely as well. I've ridden my bike up to 6 hours with no issues... I love my bike, but you are right I probably should be on a smaller frame "endurance" bike... I would love to try a 54 too and see if I can get it fit correctly, but it's not in the cards to experiment with high end bikes. Getting a fit is a good idea before buying, but your not going to really know if your on the right bike until after riding it in real world conditions over time...
Scarily, this all made perfect sense to me...help, I've gone bike nerd! I'm pleased/relieved to hear James give Trek a qualified 👍 as I have x2. I'm definitely not shaped like a pro cyclist (who is?) so whilst technically I'd fit a 56 I have a 54. I've had the Ben-efit of knowing Ben Wright who has fitted my bikes post purchase and originally bought locally from a guy that knew his stuff 100% and INCLUDED a free detailed fit in the purchase price plus was happy to swap components (e.g. the stem, spacers) from the standard to the ones I needed. I was disappointed initially that my saddle wasn't higher (and former elite riders have nagged me to put it up) but now know better. I'm planning a gravel bike build now...where to start? Happy days. Thanks for another great vid and for the channel. ♥️
@jetBlue_83 Hi! Aren't you too tall for the 52 (S) frame size? I'm asking because I'm 5'8 too and I'm planning to get a Rose Backroad and I don't know if 51 or 53 would be more suitable.
@@catalinpthHi! The top tube of the 52cm Caad12 I rode (3 years ago) was closer to 53cm. Same for the tarmac, despite it being a 54. So, they both fit; I do have a shorter torso, but my long arms and legs make up for it 😅
@@jetBlue083 I understand then. Can you tell me the inside length of your leg? My inseam is 79 cm and I wonder if a 519 mm top tube would be suitable for me. I'm 5'8" too
Got a question from a friend (also 5 ft 10, as James). He got a fit before buying a bike and was also recommended to go for a 52 cm frame with most manufacturers. But he’s struggling because he has longer legs and sometimes this doesn’t align with the minimum required seatpost insertion. Some have recommended to just put in a longer seatpost, some said go up a size and just elsewhere to reach the measurements
Ah yes, Stack and Reach, the new parameters for bike sizing. I've found S&R to be fairly useless in and of themselves but they are handy measurements for comparing frames between models. If a frame you're looking to buy has similar S&R to a frame you're currently comfy on chances are you'll do well on the new guy as well.
Great video. I'm 172cm/5.8ft and generally sit in-between sizes for most manufacturers e.g. upper end of Small, lower end of Medium or upper end of 52cm, lower end of 54cm. I've found through expensive experience that for me it is always the best option to go with the smaller bike and then adjust the components to get me in the right position, as James describes. I can also highly recommend James shop for bike fitting. I spent about 10 years in the wrong position and wish I had been for a fit sooner, it's worth the investment.
This has been extremely helpful! I’m moving from having cruisers (which were about what I could get- I never knew about fit). I want to move towards a decent beginner gravel bike (that I can ride around a bit like my cruiser) but can ride my local easy trails because it’s fun and compliments the work I do in the gym. I’m going to stop googling “how to get fit for a bike” and just find a good bike shop where they can fit me. You guys have probably just saved me a lot of money and heartache.
Eschewed a fit before purchasing my 54 Emonda, I just wanted to ride and get in shape. The stack and reach are similar to a 52 Emonda, unfortunately the Angles are not that similar. So yeah, don't go by stack and reach only, even though folks online tell you to do just that. Suffering from some neck pain and hand pressure, I took your guys advice and went to IBFI certified fitter in the NYC area, wanted to honestly go to James, money was saved, but alas COVID. First thing I asked the fitter as he was looking over my bike was if the frame size was too big. No, too small maybe, I was honestly shocked by this. I did what James suggested and had the seat set conservatively, fitter felt we needed to raise saddle and front end. Fitter had a jig, we tried new saddles, needed more support to unload weight off my hands, as well crank lengths since I felt tight in the hip area while in drops. Long story short, I do like the shorter cranks, saddle was raised to about 70cm with 165m cranks (my inseam is about 30.5, height about 5'9") no changes to the front end, although it was suggested I go to 80m Stem from 90m. Still have my neck pain, I suggested going with a shorter reach/width bar, fitter felt it wasn't necessary, controls already high even though the reach on the Bontrager bars are 100mm. After watching the last few bike fit Tuesdays, it's clear this frame is probably too big, no clue why the fitter didn't outright tell me that. When I check the measurements he provided, my controls to saddle are about 5 cm too long right now, how the hell is that possible. Maybe I'm measuring wrong, control trough to tip of saddle, that's what the fit says. I feel like the only thing I got out of the fit is probably a decent saddle height & setback. Did my research before going, still feel like I have too much hand pressure, and neck issues. Feel more frustrated than I did before at times. Going to try a new handlebar, and if things don't work out I'd probably toss the frame and get a new fit before purchasing a new frame. Question is, who will do the fitting??? Just sharing with you folks on the perils of purchasing and fitting. Love James, wish he was in NYC, and I hope he reads this. PS Going in I knew I had a slight leg discrepancy because down stroke on Left leg always felt shorter than Right. When I'm on the jig trying positions fitter notices I'm listing to one side, right side, he wasn't sure why, and I quote "that's above my paygrade." At that point I knew I was fucked, sorry for the language. After seeing what James did for a client on Instagram, Shane, I knew he would never utter such shit to a client.
Crazy story! Definitely find a different fitter. Re. Reach: i also have a Trek, i reduced reach by 5 cm by switching to 42 cm Deda bars James recommends, and moving shifters backwards. Bontrager bars are simply gigantic. Best of luck with your fit.
I'm 6.1, relatively flexible and ride a 56, alloy endurance bike. Use a 40cm bar, 100mm stem and usually run with two spacers under it. I remember spending time in the bike shop convincing the owner that I didn't need a 58.
TELL ME ABOUT IT! I ride a scott afd expert from 2005/2006, 58 way too big but still ridable. In my bike shop the owner is basically terrified to sell me a 54, on the ground that I'm quite tall (I'm 186 cm) but I do not have the privilege of being very flexible, hence my choice on a 54 endurance orientated bike. It's often very hard to convince a bike shop owner of what you are saying to them when ,of course, you know what you're talking about.
@@st3ange21 What I like about watching the videos with James is that he emphasises Biomechanics. There's an interesting video on Cam Nicholls' TH-cam channel with someone who's the polar opposite to us. The cyclist , Chris is 6'2 and hyper-flexible. Has a custom bike with an extremely long top tube as it's the only way he can cycle without discomfort. Also a bike's purpose is important. I personally prefer to cycle with a smaller reach simply because I commute by bike and it's easier to see traffic in a more upright position.
Glad to hear I'm 6 foot 1.5 pretty flexible and ride a 58cm cross bike at the monent. Just put a deposit down for my first proper road bike a 2021 giant tcr advanced pro 0. In m/l pretty sure I made the right call. I'm technically a large but think fit will be better on m/l test rode a 2020 and it felt great.
@@ricky7396 Nice, like James says bike geometries vary across brands etc. While I think I'm right is saying that the TCR comes with a 570mm effective top tube. So looking at it simplistically and ignoring measurements such as the seat and head tube length being vastly different, there's only a 10mm reduction compared to the L. Obviously I'm not advocating listening to me over a professional bike fitter although I don't personally foresee any issues. Enjoy your bike.
@@gethinap that's a very good reason to get a small bike. But again, i want a smaller bike BECAUSE I need a smaller bike. The only good thing about my scott is that it has a 190 mm headtube and a 57 cm top tube, wich is quite nice for being comfy even if the bike is basically an aircraft carrier ahahah. nice suggestion of video btw! I'm going to watch it right now actually.
So happy to find this video! Makes me feel justified in choosing smaller frames. When I first started getting into riding, bike shops would look at me and put me on 61cm frames. They said I was supposed to feel stretched out, and it was just my core wasn't strong enough, even though I was pretty darn fit. Ended up with a 58 back then, but over the years have drifted down to 56's. But since I work on other people's bikes fairly often now, I've ridden some 54's that with a few small tweaks feel quite comfortable. I never considered going that small, but hearing this guy rides a 52 and is only 3 inches shorter than me makes me wish I'd gone smaller on my recent gravel bike purchase, especially after having to get a shorter stem.
I miss my late 80’s road bike with Greg Lemond Eddie Merckx fit. Relaxed geometry and the saddle height was only a couple of inches higher than the stem. Today that would be considered touring bike fit.
Since I don't have any interest in racing and prefer endurance distances, I feel like my fit has gradually changed over time. The same bike that fit when I was 33 is a bit less comfortable at age 43. Shorter reach, narrower handlebars, and a higher stack height are all on the table for my next road bike. I'm an average height (187 cm), but my wife has a long torso and rides a 53 cm Cannondale that I felt surprisingly comfortable borrowing for a bit. In about nine months, I'll be looking to size down my frame. I appreciate the insights James keeps giving out.
I’m 5’9. I bought a 53’ gravel bike. And I found I was consistently hitting the front tire with my foot. So I traded it in for a 55.5. This was a mistake. I’ve had to make numerous changes and it’s taken me a couple years but I have finally gotten the bike to fit me. I got a zero offset seatpost. Being a gravel bike I didn’t have a problem shortening the stem from 100 to an 80, as this seems to be the trend for gravel bikes anyway. Having very wide shoulders I got an oversized handlebar at 44, which, coming from a mountain bike background, I really like. And so after all that I finally have a bike that not only fits, but actually fits really well. But I don’t know if all this could have been avoided by just keeping the 53 and figuring out the maneuverability of the tire in conjunction with my pedalling. So thankfully this seems to work well for me. I don’t have to slam the seat to the front of the rails and being that I was always short for my age growing up I always rode bikes too big for me anyway, so I’m kind of used to being on bigger frames. But the bike does fit now. I can go on longer rides without discomfort due to sizing issues. And I don’t spend have the ride thinking about how I feel about my fit on the bike. But I am curious to know, what are your thoughts on toe rub? Is it an indication that the bike it too small? Obviously with gravel bikes having larger tires it is going to be more of an issue than with road bikes. I wonder if the bike had 25s on it if I would have hit the tire with my foot once or if I ever would have even considered the bike too small.
I don't think toe overlap should influence your fit. I have toe overlap on all bikes, road, gravel, track because I run my cleats as far back as they go. You just learn to pedal and avoid it.
"Fit first, buy later" for bikes makes so much sense to me (now you say it) as a seamstress. I honestly don't know how anyone buys clothes that fit online, or even in shops. Buying stuff is so hard!
5'10" on a 52. That's pro style sizing which means you're probably running a very long stem with a massive saddle to bar drop. Would be interesting to see a picture of your bike.
Another great video. It's a mine field. I recently bought a Ridley helium, and I'm sure it's to small for me, although the shop that sold it to me, said it was the right size. My 1st ride on it I felt hunched up. I then reset the saddle height with a formula that a friend recommended to me. This made it better, we then swapped the stem for 1 10mm longer this has made it more comfortable. Having a fit 1st is definitely the way to go. Wish I'd have done this. You live and learn. Keep it up lads.
So many bike shops can't afford a large stock. They tend to stock a medium size frame and are motivated to sell it - even if it is too big. I had a lot of problems trying to get a bike to test that was the right size for me. I ended up buying from a shop that had a full range of sizes in stock. 1st I test rode a bike that they thought would be the right size that belonged to one of their mechanics. Second they included a fit on a machine similar to the one James has to see what size that indicated. Only then did they recommend a size. I've since ridden 30,000 miles on it so far - very comfortable for me (Cervelo R5 2016 size 51). I have a friend that thinks it looks like a toy bike... ...but it suits me.
I must admit I'd never have thought a 5' 10" man would ride a size 52. Would the saddle to handlebar drop be quite big? I'm roughly the same height but perhaps with a slightly longer leg and have a H2 Emonda in 56 and Focus Paralane in 54. Stack and reach roughly the same between the two. I'm older and not overly flexible so run 20 mm of spacers too. Reckon a 52 even in endurance geo would be way too small for me, but happy to stand corrected.
@@Quizmate1 Two manufactures size 52 might be quite different. Even when Stack and Reach look similar they can differ due to the Top bearing cover - some are a couple of mm while some 15mm or so - that difference combined with the head tube angle may alter the effective Stack & Reach. A smaller bike is just more fun to ride IMO - more nimble and lighter. Although I have a size 51 R5 I wouldn't mind trying a size 48 for fun. I might need a spacer or two but I'm sure it would work.
Best thing I ever did was book a fit with James. He really knows his stuff and looks at the rider and their make up rather than angles and numbers. I have since bought a new bike and used the fit data to buy it. It’s the best fitting bike I’ve ever owned and the comfiest to ride. Thanks James. And following a great follow up fit a few weeks back the position is even better again. 👍👍
I guess this is the most relevant sizing video! I'm 187 cm tall with 90 cm inseam and I was searching for a supersix evo 2017-2019. The sizing guide recommended 58-60, but those bikes are long on reach, so ended up with a 56 size. With 15 mm setback the bike feels great. Thanks for the video! Great job!
Thanks for the info....I just bought a bike and it was too big for me and thankfully it could be returned. So now I need to look for a bike fitter and then a bike. Seems like a proper approach!
I’ve been on a size 56 for 3 years, from a uk manufacturer who recommended that frame size at point of sale. I’ve found I’m too stretched out but have made improvements most recently with the help of an IBFI fitter. Looking to my next purchase I had settled on a Scott Addict as a possible, size 54 gave me a nice 15mm reduction in ETT, with a steeper seat tube and slacker head angle I ought to be a lot less stretched out, went to have a look at one and the shop said “No way you should be riding a 54, more like a 56 or 58. You just can’t get the stack height on a 54, you need to be on a bigger frame to come up and back”. The irony here is that the 54 Addict has a higher stack height than my current 56 size bike! (They then tried to suggest I needed a fit from them, completely disregarding my recent fit) I’m no expert but I think the industry has real issues when it comes to fit, like you say in the video the issue seems to be that a lot of people are on too big a frame, too stretched out. Without an industry all agreed on sizing it is a minefield for the consumer. Fitting is also not guaranteed to be consistent across fitters either.
@@TheCharnwoodCyclist yeah mate, just goes to show how height isn’t the only factor. I’m an inch shorter than you and ridden 56 specializeds for over 10 years, fit me great
I'm a comically short, fat bloke so no amount of bike fit will help, particularly as a fit would cost almost half of what my cheap, Decathlon push-iron did! These videos are amazingly informative though and if I was a wealthier chap, I can completely see the sense in getting a fit BEFORE buying some fancy bike. James' knowledge is incredibly impressive and his passion and enthusiasm are very infectious. So nice to hear someone getting stuck into the inconsistencies of the industry's sizing model. Also great to hear that the aggressive geometry of the race bike is unsuitable for the majority of people ("most consumers shouldn't be riding race bikes" @7:42). From what I've read, most pros are freakishly fit, strong and uniquely adapted to cycling, almost to the detriment of other activities (such as walking around the shops with his girlfriend, according to Tyler Hamilton's book!).
James has a weird energy… He clearly loves bikes and is very knowledgeable, but the way he talks makes it sound like everything bike-related also pisses him off! 😂
I call the crucial dimensions the "cockpit" - the seat, hands on bars, and crank/pedals. Primary dimension is the pedal to saddle distance, and setback. This establishes the rider's balance over the crank and leg extension through the pedal circle. Second is effective stack and reach = vertical height from crank center to main hand position (typically 80% on the brake hoods); hood angle usually close to flat, but rotating bars to adjust requires re-measuring and often changing bar extension and stem height. Modern brake/shift units extend up to an inch forward, from old brake hoods, screwing with the fit and reach, while basic frame geometries actually have barely changed in 40 years - short riders still suffer from too long an effective top tube, where no stem is short enough to keep from tipping too far forward. Racers can lean farther forward because their faster speeds, effective lift from airflow, and higher torque balance them, versus a slow recreational rider. Yet most fit formulas plug the same criteria in as the "LeMond fit" circa 1985. As to "Pro Fits": After riding several years with no issues, having been set up by a couple local racers doing fits for shops, my wife splurged for the mid-level fit, from THE "guru" outfit to the stars for decades in Colorado. Not he, but one of his staff changed saddle, height, setback, bars, and reach. Within half a dozen moderate rides up to 40 miles, she developed half a dozen issues; they re-checked her with a different staffer, and changed most everything back to nearly her original setup. Problems resolved. The point is, one needs to be suspicious of a lot of high-tech magic, especially micro-measurements, because on a perfect fit, we move back and forth, up and down, adjusting for gradient, effort, aero position if descending, etc. Find a fitter through word of mouth; they can often intuit by watching you, where a change is needed, regardless of formulas and pricey tools and lasers, etc.
Priceless video - so much relevant info. I'm 5'10" also and ended up on a small frame after a fit. More room for manoeuvre with other components too. Another problem is cyclists thinking that stretched-out discomfort is all part of the experience and wouldn't stop to question it. Average-shaped blokes Supermaning it on oversized frames.
It strikes me as odd that for how much time manufacturers spend shouting about increased exposed seatpost length and subsequent deflection increasing comfort, that they haven’t invested more in making sure consumers buy a bike that fits them. If you purchase a bike that’s too big for you, it would then be by the manufacturers own logic, harsher to ride because you don’t have enough exposed post for the bike to absorb vibration/impacts as intended.
This video may come off as "rambly" to some but there are some absolute gems of fit wisdom here. Sadly, many salespeople in bike shops spread bad information about fit, which then gets perpetuated throughout the industry/hobby/sport.
Love bike fit Tuesday. Me and Guppy play bike fit bingo. Every time James mentions an ache or pain we tick it off. Wide bars high saddle I've got the lot.
Another great helpful video, I’m 6’3 tall and when I first started riding I was on an 54cm WSD bike , did me ok however I’m now on a 60cm Trek Emonda and have had a 58 cm Trek 1.2 in between and feel the more comfortable on the 60cm keep up the great content guys
I'm the same height And have 2006 Trek 1200 58cm. I found it cramped after a while. I switched to an XL Merida scultura disc (they don't do a XXL so probably a 60 equivalent) and it is a better fit. Geometry is different though. The real difference was comfort and speed. I was a minute faster on a hill segment near me first time I got on it.
I mountain biked for years and tried road bikes going through 4 different bikes many stems bars seats etc etc and ultimately gave in, even looked a bike fitter about 30 miles from me no use at all, he said unless you have a bike in mind he has know base to start from, I'm 6" 19 stone with a 29" inside leg, (and yes was this size all the time I road mountain bike) The road bikes sizes I tried were a Bianchi 55cm, Lappiere 58cm, Secialized 56cm and Pinnacle 58cm none of which ever seemed correct and now having come across this channel I understand why and also understand the total lack of knowledge in most shops, some day hope to give it another go and now know where to start
I recently spent a lot of money on a brand new supersix evo. I was in between two size according to cannondale fit charts and I recall the seller just telling me "it's up to you" as only advice to choose the size. I'm planning to do a bike fit but I'm already convinced that the frame is too big for me :-( Thanks for the video. I love the bikefittuesdays serie
Excellent video on this topic. I had a bike fit due knee pain but only on one knee. At the beginning the fitter said "we've got a lot of work to do". By the end I had new saddle, stem and bars to get where I needed to be on the bike. Since then, no knee pain. If you can get a fit done DEFINITELY do it.
it's fun being 162cm with a 71cm inseam - I'm not only short, I also have short legs for my size. If I were to buy an "endurance" bike from a brand that only goes down to a size 50 I'd be way too stretched out, have the seat post all the way in and a few centimetres lower than the bars... also the 100mm stem length rule of thumb goes out the window with just about any road bike since 28in wheels just simply don't allow a bike to be short enough to allow people my size to run a long stem. Oh, and have I mentioned inevitable toe overlap? I suppose on the flipside it's easy to pick a bike because it essentially boils down to finding the smallest bike with the lowest but also shortest front end across all brands. No need to worry about fancy brands when they simply don't make a bike that fits.
I'm the same but the other way around so 175cm with 87cm inseam long legs but a short torso. So most bikes that fit seat length wise will have too long of a reach, and the others that have the perfect reach will have too short of a seat post or I'll have to have it nearly all the way out . My current bike is an endurance but it got a 12cm saddle to bar drop as the seat is so high.
At that point it seems necessary to go to 650c or 650b wheels for such small sizes similar to what I think Canyon or Specialized have done recently. I also remember a video from Emma Pooley where she talks about her move from 700 to 650c being the biggest performance increase she had found as it was able to allow her to get a bike that actually fit finally.
@@RyonBeachner 650b is the obvious solution but as long as Canyon is the only bike brand offering 650b road bikes and as long as there are next to no 650b (road) wheel options that is reserved to people with the means to go for custom frames and start their own wheel brand... 😅
Went to LBS fitter 2 years ago and still suffering from chronic wrist pain after fitter raised my seat 40mm and angled my seat down. Have since gone back to previous setup but wrist pain persists. The only IBFI fitter in my area of San Francisco/San Jose will not take new clients because he mostly does physical therapy. And other fitters will not do fits because of Covid. Last, affraid to spend $300 on a bike fit with no guaranty it will solve wrist problem.
I am 6'1" and Trek's sizing puts me on a 60cm frame. I feel most comfortable on a 56cm though which is 2 sizes smaller. LBS is no help in sizing and said my body just needs to get use to the 58. Yet to get the seat where I need it the post is dropped almost all the way down (Trek domane has limited adjustment) and the reach feels stretched to me.
I had a similar experience. I'm 6'4" and the Trek bike shop salesman was certain 62 cm frame was the only size that would work. I told him I ride a 58cm Tarmac, for years, on long rides with no issues and he looked at me like I was crazy. I test rode the 62cm(Emonda) and didn't like it. Maybe our body geometrys are just weird but it seems like manufacturers and dealers often push big frames too much.
So on point, i'm 5'9" and only just realising my 56cm Kona CX is the main cause of all my niggles. Tried new seats, stems and numerous hrs fiddling around when I'm probably like James i'm really a 52.
Yep.... Bought a 56 Synapse (used ) as a first road bike, based on what every website told me i needed to buy. Currently spending more reducing stems, bars, and pissing about with it as my rides get longer and longer. Thankfully... Booking a fit before investing in an upgrade. Love bike Tuesdays!
I thought bikes weren't comfortable for the longest. Bike shop sold me a 58cm bike based on height alone (and what they had in stock). Then I rode a 56 (a 2011 Carbon Synapse in fact) .... and a 55..... My sweet spot is 100% geometry dependent.
good one. bought an m giant last year in a shop where the guy recommended that size to me over s, which felt better to me. I didnt have a clue so I bought a much too big of a bike. I am 1,74, now running the new cube nuroad 2021 in small and it fits perfectly.
@toslinked Hi! Can you tell me exactly what model bike you have? I'd like to compare it to the size 51 Rose Backroad, as I'm 172 cm tall. Thanks in advance!
Same here i looked up internet estimates n looking at 54 or 56...but the shop guys said 52 or 54. I think 52!had enough clearnce for my nuts. As 54 might crush them nuts. Lol
If I am ballpark sizing new bikes in the shop, I touch my elbow to the saddle nose (normal stock saddle size and position, as on all new bikes) and the tip of my middle finger ends up mid stem extension. Stock stem lengths on road bikes don't vary that much. A size smaller or larger are way off with this easily repeatable screening measurement. This cubit measurement was used in ancient Egyptian times. Of course this will vary rider to rider, but the principle is the same. Take your best fitting bike and see were your finger tip ends up. Could be closer to the handlebar or the stem bolt, but will be a fairly good guide to narrow down the options. I recommend taking your best fitting current bike and tape measure when shopping for a new bike. Then you can adjust to the exact same saddle height, reach, angles, etc. Have to disagree that you can't buy a bike too small. Do to limited stock I had to settle for a one size smaller single speed road bike than my ideal cubit measurement. Had to make several changes to stem bars and seat post to make it fit decently.
Even though my bike is relatively new [2 years] and was “professionally “ fitted, your video fuels that inner voice saying..”am I riding the right frame size and does it really FIT me?”...killing me........JK
The answer to your question is a question for yourself. How happy are you with the fit of the bike in terms of ride comfort? If it feels good then yes and don't over think it.
The more videos I watch like this, the more lost I become. I'm 5'9 and was recommended a 53. Think I've got my saddle hight right but my reach is completely wrong. Being a brand new cyclist I'm so so lost in what I need to change. Suffering with a little shoulder and neck pain. Any suggestions would be appreciated
Being 5'9 and of average build I was told by my local shop I needed to be on a 56. After many stem changes and a professional fit I still have pain in my neck and between my shoulders after about 10 miles. Casual conversation with another bike shop said I should be on 52-54cm bike.....
Great discussion at what to watch for. I made a classic mistake. I bought a 3T Exploro that was probably the right size. However, I I am 62 years old and found out my hips are not flexible. Just could not ride the bike without hip pain - too aggressive of geometry. I swapped the bike out for an OPEN WI..de, much slacker geometry, much higher stack height and the comfort was amazing. I still swapped to compact bars and shorter cranks, but really love the bike. Smaller frames, shorter stems and endurance geometry made for a completely different bike even though it was “the same size”. I will still have a second bike fit on the OPEN after riding for several months. This will just dial in the last bits and pieces.
This is bonkers, I’m an inch taller than James, every bike I have from surly, cinelli, IF etc are all 56. I run them all with 100/110 mm stems slammed, layback seat posts with between 180-200mm of post. Clearly I’m on the wrong size. But in my mid 40s I’ve been riding these wrong bikes for 20 plus years and approach 100k miles on strava, without any issues. I guess it goes back to the point that the human body can deal with these problems ok, at least from my perspective. I’m about to sell a 54 cm frame because I think it’s too small for me and the amount of seat post I have to run to get what feels like a comfortable pedal stroke looks stupid. I’m very confused! I know, get a bike fit, but do I really want to hear that I need to replace the bike collection lol.
I think its the difference between your flexibility and fitness level that might make the difference. Similarly I'm only 5'7 ish and my bike fit is almost exactly like James' with a 51/52 and a size smaller (48) always feels like Im on a scooter/ clown bike (I actually have the 51cm Synapse)
I'm a seamstress, so I've made pants and stuff before. You can have 2 guys the same height and have 2 different inseams, different chest, arm & neck length/width measurements, different wingspans. Height by itself tells you maybe a little about fit. Like where to start, but once you start dicking with the specific measurements, things often change quite a bit.
@@katrinagwen I don't think Francis is advocating for changing it just because etc. in your case your fit maybe perfect for you because of your fitness level and flexibility even if you're exactly his height. Other things like your inseams and and torso length etc changes things.
Great video on a very complex topic. I'm just getting back to serious cycling. I'm 5'11.5" tall, and though I'm reasonably fit for a formerly mostly sedentary 62-yr-old, I've never been very flexible through by posterior side. I just bought an endurance/race style bike from a direct-to-consumer shop, where I had a choice of a Medium (recommended for 5'8" to 5'11") or Large (recommended for 5'11" to 6'2"). I went with Medium, and even though it "should be" too small for me according to the very basic sizing selection chart on offer, it is working well. For many years I have had a 2000 model full-on race bike with a horizontal top tube in size 58cm, and it also works pretty well, but if I could magically shrink it to a 56cm or maybe even a 54cm, I would. I was nearly 6'1" when I bought it, and having "settled" over an inch makes a big difference. EDIT: I just noticed that on the new bike's frame there is a sticker that reads "56cm."
Try being a small i’m 5’3’’. The choice is really limited as many smalls are huge and many don’t offer xs. I always end up with specialized as they make xs that are actually small
@@wasabimane I have an Argon Krypton, size 47. My girlfriend always got a 50 or 51 because that's what bike shops told her. She's 5'4". She recently bought a bike and was about to walk out with the recommended size and I talked her into at least trying their 47 (Scott). She loved it. Bike shops can point you in the right direction, but ultimately test riding is a must!! Some people love big bikes because they feel more stable. I like being able to throw my bike around quickly and easily. It's not the most confidence inspiring going downhills at max speed, but that's okay. Keeps my blood pumping. :)
You're so right! I'm 6'5 and went with Canyon's sizing chart and ended up with XL size. I bought one (Ultimate) and used James knowledge to get the fit as close as I could. So far so good. I have had it about a year and so far I haven't experience any pain or discomfort from long rides.
I’m 6’2” and ride a 56 and I’m very comfortable on it. I rode a 59 and it was too big. The most frustrating part is other people telling me my bike is too small for me.
tell 'em to mind their own business. it's the same with a lot of things: people talk when don't know anything about it. ride your comfortable "small" bike and have fun.
I’m 6’3” and on a 56 also. My friend who works at a bike shop is still convinced it’s too small even though it just feels good but what do I know? My gravel bike is a 58 and needed to get an 80mm stem to get the reach right.
Great video. Very informative content! Gives me peace of mind that a getting professional bike fit before buying my next bike is the way to go. Thanks!
100% agree with the points James. James fitted me for my Festka (which fits great). It is a custom frame, but based around their 52 cm, whereas most manufactures suggest I should be on a 54 or 56 based on my long inseam vs (in a relative sense) short upper boddy.
This was so interesting and leads me to an experience I had a few years ago. I purchased (rightly or wrongly) a Bianchi Oltre XR4, was bike fitted by a very knowledgable guy in Spain and left the bike there to use when I was there Fantastically comfortable on the bike. Came home and decided to buy a same size Bianchi Oltre XR3 which on paper looks exactly the same with minor millimeter differences in the frame geometry. Result....never been so uncomfortable on a bike despite 3 bike fits by 3 different people. Lesson learnt.
LOL! but he's got point tho, I see a lot of bike fit on my usual shop and customers probably 80-90% of them got Excessive saddle height or the stem is too long. Probably they want to look like pros "Slammed stem with 7-8" saddle height".
@@adobongmanacc6853 yeah, and the best way to achieve that look is to buy a bike that's too small for you and claim it's the right fit where your only excuse for such a decision is to claim that bike manufacturers haven't a clue what they're doing...
Kingfitter James! Yet again, I can listen to him share his knowledge about all things cycling. Granted I may get dropped on occasion, second time around makes it stick! Thanks Francis!!
Answers one of my biggest questions straight away. 5'10", Canyon says I'm a small, which seemed weird lol. Cheers for making these videos and making sense of so much.
Yes, the newer generation Canyons are very big. I just sat on a new womens Ultimate in size S and it's quite close to my older Ultimate in size M. At least they adjusted the recommended rider height as well. But considering my first bike was an Endurace in L thats really funny 😂 (fit on the L was fine actually)
Interesting observations on frame size tending to be too big. I am 6’2”and started out on a 58 cm frame according to the “chart”. After many years of riding I am now on a 55 cm road bike and a 56 cm TT bike. Different manufacturers in all three cases and current sizes giving me the best results.
What might have helped more is to show a few situations that help you know the fit is right... for you. For me it's pedaling feel and you can see it change when it's right.. The pedal stroke becomes effortless to keep fluid. That's when I know my saddle height and fore/aft is pretty close to perfect. Short legs, long torso, vs. 50/50 vs Long legs short torso also make a difference on frame size and geo. But showing what "right" looks like in some aspect helps me the most when it comes to videos. ....Especially when I'm fantasizing about fixing a problem rather than just doing it. (The whole point of youtube, right?) But I couldn't agree more that you should get fit on a jig first, then see if those numbers can transfer to your bike. Probably should get fit at least once every 5 years. I'm not the same as I was 20 years ago. I didn't even know what a pro fit was 30 years ago... but I wager it'd have been angle measuring to the bike and likely would've been the cause of problems rather than a fix. So, glad I went with feel/effort/comfort and time improvement based fitting for myself in my early days. The past 20 have been a mixed bag of advice from 'pro' fitters. With people like Steve Hogg changing the scene, I think there is a good chance you can find a good fitter that fits YOU to the bike. Great philosophy.
Nice vid guys! Wondering if you could do a bike fit Tuesdays episode on fitting bikes for younger riders (say 16-20). Being more flexible and usually fitter, is there different advice?
Anyone know a good bike fitter around Atlanta Ga? IBFI has nobody in the state.
Damn, just got finished watching "Vox Sound", come here and Rhett is pinned by Francis. Small world, or we all like guitars and bikes.
I went to get a fit at podium multisport. The guy there mostly knows what he is doing and has been fitting bikes for quite a while. I did get a TT fit and he proportionally does more Tri fits but he is a great vetted bike fitter
Matt Cole @ Podium MMS!
@@Mouse2k yep that's the guy
@@Mouse2k Yup, Matt Cole is the go-to. Guy does an amazing job. Just was in All3 today and saw him hooking someone up. Go see him!
A good follow up video would be how to translate your bike fit numbers into finding frames that are best for your fit.
This all the way please
Good shout.
Agree. How to translate fit/position coordinates to bike size would be really helpful.
From what I've learned watching these videos... it's nearly impossible to come up with an algorithm to do that. You need to see how someone moves on the bike. Anthropometric data is only one component but even in that, there's so many variables such as build type (how much weight are you carrying on your torso, you can have two people with the same measurements that are carrying different loads) and then there's joint geometry, flexibility, injuries, personal objectives and riding style, etc. that I don't think this can be distilled into a simple formula. It could probably be done with machine learning but the cost of the research required to build that AI... it's unlikely there's profit in that. Velogicfit, Retul et al. has attempted to mass produce bike fit with motion capture. They can provide useful data in terms of pinpointing specifics in movement that less experienced fitters might not notice but it still requires dynamic analysis, and not static analysis.
What I'd like to know is... when I go in for a pre-purchase bike fit, how can I tell if the fitter has done things properly, especially if I've been riding on an improperly-sized frame for so long that I've adapted to how it feels? Will I just know what a good fit feels like? I recently did this and the geometry the fitter came up with felt cramped to me... but maybe that would ultimately be more comfortable?
Well..... Maybe choose a frame which fits within the parameters you got from your bite fit. A smaller frame can be fitted by using stem, spacers, saddle height, comfortable versus aggressive riding styles etc. For a larger frame extending parameters, you first need a chainsaw.....
Thanks as always James and Francis.
As a retailer but not a bike fitter, I can say a few things. Yes, it is _very_ expensive to buy a bike that is too big. But it has two other effects: you will never get your own optimal performance on it, and you can cause yourself injuries.
There is one more thing I'd add. Many customers have a "big bike" mindset. They expect a certain size bike, and that size is too big. So they resist a smaller size frame.
One can do many things to adapt a small frame to a rider, but you can't just cut a chunk off a large frame to make it smaller. So err on the small side.
And personally I find a small frame is just a lot more fun.
This is the best video I've seen, so far, about bike sizing. Some people are making me feel inferior for choosing a 50cm Trek bike. I am only 5'7". The Trek computer sizing had me as 56." I tried the 56 and fell hitting my head. For two weeks I had severe neck pain from the fall. I was torn between 50 and 52, but felt very comfortable on 50. This video gave me self-reassurance. Thank you so much.
Recently found this channel and it made me question my recently bought crazy expensive supersix. I am now stuck between wanting to know more and not wanting to know more.
😬
You definitely want to know more.. Good or bad news, knowing it asap will always be best for you.
Stop watching videos, go ride it, if it makes you happy? It fits.
This!!
@@134513214 that's not true. I happily rode my bike for 3 months and then I got a bike fit. Turns out my seat was 2 inches too low. After the fit and subsequent adjustments I was far more efficient, comfortable and happier.
I’m 5’ 10” and on a “51” with a 53mm virtual top tube. I came off a 56 that felt wayyy to big. I happen to really like the 51 but have always felt vaguely guilty for being on a bike that was “too small”. This video makes me feel better!
lol guilty towards what ?
youre just gaslighting yourself man. ride whatever you like!
I'm 168cm in height and most size charts tell me to buy a Small bike. I bought one with a 53cm top tube and it was way too long even with an 80mm stem and 65mm short reach bars. I ride XS now which isn't meant to be for my height. Size charts make no sense to me either.
@@anthonyduncalf-uk yea im 2 inches taller nd i can ride an xs but im comfortable with 50-53 top tube
I'm choosing now between a 48cm Cervelo Caledonia and a 51. On paper, the 51 is the bike for me but riding them, the 48 just feels way better. Granted, the spacers are under the stem but I just feel much better on the 48 than the 51. I'm 5'6" by the way.
Now I'm even more confused
Roadbike: XS
Mountainbike: M
Bibshorts: L
Helmet: XL
Dinner after ride: XXL
Facts 😂
Then let us guess ... you formerly have been in the past ... BMX-rider!?! :-/
Glad to read that I'm not the only one with absurd size proportions. Don't feel as odd now.
Condoms?
It's our parents' fault: "you'll grow into it"!
True 🤣😆
Went all summer without shoes because of this concept. Really sucked delivering Sunday papers on the Schwin bear trap pedals, Haha!
I bought a large frame because of this, but I'm 41 years old, so I don't think I'm going to grow in to it.
😂😂😂😂
At 62 I am shrinking down into it.
I remember walking into a bike shop 5 years ago with my L (58cm top tube) bike. The guy in the shop told me that bike is small(!) for me and advised me to change it. Today I'm riding a 54 cm top tube bike that I bought after a bike fit considering why I'll use it for and my limits. Can't be happier. Good advices!
Glad you're on a better size now!
Loving the bike fit "Tuesdays"
Agree with your suggested approach. I'm 6 feet tall, inseam of almost 80cm, according to most bike fit sizes, 56 or 58 cm have been regularly suggested. I have been basing size on seat setback and my desired reach, taking into account seat to bar drop.... This has now landed me commonly on a 54cm....validated!!
What do you do for a stem?
the only issue i have with using a fit bike is that anyone can "feel good" on a stationary bike for a 20 min spin. let me know how you feel after 2 hours and then you'll see what hurts and where the fit is off. i can hold a pro tour position for 20 mins, but i wouldn't go off that position.
A good bike fit should offer a follow up after a month or so to see how your getting on and tweak if nessacry
Dude, these fit are 3hrs or more and the follow up is an hour. Trust me, my fit was a workout. I agree that due to lack of cant left or right the true measure isn’t felt until the open road, hence the follow up.
This guy is the first person I have seen on youtube that really knows what he is talking about.
James. You are a legend. You have explained so many more relevant conditions affecting bike frame sizes than anyone i know. Thanks for the straight talk. You really do help us all out here in bikesville. Francis, keep up the great work. We all appreciate it.
So glad i came across this channel. I am
Also 5'10 and have been riding 54cm Cannondales for a few years because people have my size always ride 54cm. I once had a cannondale Caad Saeco in 52cm and it was indeed very comfy. Now that i see you talking about 52cm i will go for that size would be nice to see your bike set up knowing you are my height.
Great channel im glad i came across you guys. Keep it up!.👍
@dannyhernandez434 Hi! I'm 5'8 and am planning to purchase a Rose Backroad 51 cm (my first gravel). Do you think it's the right size or would I need a bigger size like 53cm?
I'm 6'7" and recently bought myself a Canyon bike. I assumed I'd need an XXL since, you know, I'm about as tall as they come, but on a whim I went for a bike pre-fit. I'm so glad I did, since based on that I was told I'd actually need an XL, and now that I've had the full fit with my new bike I can see that an XXL would have been too big. Definitely worth the money.
Canyon founder Roman Arnold is really tall so I'm not surprised their XXL is very big.
@@Schmotzky Can you share your inseam as well ? I'm exactly 6'1'' (185cm), but I have very long legs compared to my torso (90cm inseam). I'm on the fence between an L and an M Grail 7 AL...
@@Schmotzky thanks for the info!
I assume you'll get the Grail in M as well?
I'm similar to James. I'm 176cm and always look for a size 52. The problem I find is that they often have very short headtubes. I got lucky with my first road bike. A Trek Madone from 2011. Which is essentially the same geometry as todays Domane. This video confirms that I've been choosing right all along. Cheers!
Then a 52 doesn't fit you! you got "lucky" and the video doesn't confirm your right at all, what it proves is you have a short leg and long torso or arms and you have to pick a comprise.
I have a long torso and short arms for my hight but i have to pick a medium as i get too much toe overlap otherwise. so my cockpit is very compacted
@@gaza4543 i have longer arms and shorter inseam. so that means i would need to find a longer headtube?
I am 1.83m (6ft) and just changed from a very nice fitting 54cm gravel frameset to a different one in 58cm. i have choosen the bigger one because i wanted more space in the frame triangle for bottles and bags and no toe overlap with big tires. the new frame has 54mm(!) higher stack and 39mm more reach. yet by not using spacers, a more negative 20mm shorter stem and a seatpost with no setback i got all contact points within millimeters of the old bike. i sit exactly the same on it and am very happy. with the shorter stem the overall burlier bike even feels nimbler than i had hoped for. so i think one should not totally overemphasize the bike frame size, you can always adjust it to your needs. it only gets problematic when its too small and you cant add more spacers, or the other way around and you cant stand over the toptube anymore.
I'm no PRO , 53 yrs old and always ridden bikes . One thing I've learned , it's a minefield . Personally at 5.8" , I go Small all day long over Medium even if M is recommended size .
Couldn’t agree more- I’m 6’2 and ride 56cm road bikes. My first road bike was a 59 (recommended to my by a shop)and it was waaay too big !
Interesting! What is your body proportions torso vs legs and what were your main problems with the 59cm frame?
Well, I'm almost 6'1" (1.85 m) with an 89 cm inseam, I ride a 59 cm Bianchi Infinito (57.5 cm TT, 12 cm stem), and I love it. Chose the bike by TT length, the "racier" sister model Oltre XR4 has a longer TT and shorter steerer tube and felt much too long for me.
I struggle with road bike size a lot... I'm 5'10.5 and ride a 56 tarmac sl6. I seriously considered a 54, but I felt like the stack was not enough for my flexibility. I'm a Cat 3-4 rider and ride 10-15 hrs/week. On the 56, I use 30mm of stem spacers, a 110 stem, and 0 offset seatpost. I can maintain a nice aero position on the hoods with elbows at 70-90 angle and can ride in the drops indefinitely as well. I've ridden my bike up to 6 hours with no issues... I love my bike, but you are right I probably should be on a smaller frame "endurance" bike... I would love to try a 54 too and see if I can get it fit correctly, but it's not in the cards to experiment with high end bikes. Getting a fit is a good idea before buying, but your not going to really know if your on the right bike until after riding it in real world conditions over time...
What’s a Cat 3-4 rider? Just say you’re a Cat 4 and own it…
Scarily, this all made perfect sense to me...help, I've gone bike nerd!
I'm pleased/relieved to hear James give Trek a qualified 👍 as I have x2. I'm definitely not shaped like a pro cyclist (who is?) so whilst technically I'd fit a 56 I have a 54. I've had the Ben-efit of knowing Ben Wright who has fitted my bikes post purchase and originally bought locally from a guy that knew his stuff 100% and INCLUDED a free detailed fit in the purchase price plus was happy to swap components (e.g. the stem, spacers) from the standard to the ones I needed. I was disappointed initially that my saddle wasn't higher (and former elite riders have nagged me to put it up) but now know better.
I'm planning a gravel bike build now...where to start? Happy days. Thanks for another great vid and for the channel. ♥️
Thanks Graham!
Loved this! I’m a 52 on a CAAD12 and a 54 on Specialized Tarmac. Glad I got a bike fit before moving to the Tarmac 😅
Height?
@@angstfree2008 5'8"
@jetBlue_83 Hi! Aren't you too tall for the 52 (S) frame size? I'm asking because I'm 5'8 too and I'm planning to get a Rose Backroad and I don't know if 51 or 53 would be more suitable.
@@catalinpthHi! The top tube of the 52cm Caad12 I rode (3 years ago) was closer to 53cm. Same for the tarmac, despite it being a 54. So, they both fit; I do have a shorter torso, but my long arms and legs make up for it 😅
@@jetBlue083 I understand then. Can you tell me the inside length of your leg? My inseam is 79 cm and I wonder if a 519 mm top tube would be suitable for me. I'm 5'8" too
Got a question from a friend (also 5 ft 10, as James). He got a fit before buying a bike and was also recommended to go for a 52 cm frame with most manufacturers. But he’s struggling because he has longer legs and sometimes this doesn’t align with the minimum required seatpost insertion. Some have recommended to just put in a longer seatpost, some said go up a size and just elsewhere to reach the measurements
Ah yes, Stack and Reach, the new parameters for bike sizing. I've found S&R to be fairly useless in and of themselves but they are handy measurements for comparing frames between models. If a frame you're looking to buy has similar S&R to a frame you're currently comfy on chances are you'll do well on the new guy as well.
Great video. I'm 172cm/5.8ft and generally sit in-between sizes for most manufacturers e.g. upper end of Small, lower end of Medium or upper end of 52cm, lower end of 54cm. I've found through expensive experience that for me it is always the best option to go with the smaller bike and then adjust the components to get me in the right position, as James describes. I can also highly recommend James shop for bike fitting. I spent about 10 years in the wrong position and wish I had been for a fit sooner, it's worth the investment.
I’m 175 cm and I will use your numbers in buying my bike
Excellent video as usual but looking at James in that T shirt couldn’t stop captain pug wash from going round in my head !!
Nah, there's a different cade video character for that song!
Perfect t shirt to wear on Trafalgar Day! Huzzah!
This has been extremely helpful! I’m moving from having cruisers (which were about what I could get- I never knew about fit).
I want to move towards a decent beginner gravel bike (that I can ride around a bit like my cruiser) but can ride my local easy trails because it’s fun and compliments the work I do in the gym.
I’m going to stop googling “how to get fit for a bike” and just find a good bike shop where they can fit me.
You guys have probably just saved me a lot of money and heartache.
Eschewed a fit before purchasing my 54 Emonda, I just wanted to ride and get in shape. The stack and reach are similar to a 52 Emonda, unfortunately the Angles are not that similar. So yeah, don't go by stack and reach only, even though folks online tell you to do just that.
Suffering from some neck pain and hand pressure, I took your guys advice and went to IBFI certified fitter in the NYC area, wanted to honestly go to James, money was saved, but alas COVID. First thing I asked the fitter as he was looking over my bike was if the frame size was too big. No, too small maybe, I was honestly shocked by this. I did what James suggested and had the seat set conservatively, fitter felt we needed to raise saddle and front end. Fitter had a jig, we tried new saddles, needed more support to unload weight off my hands, as well crank lengths since I felt tight in the hip area while in drops.
Long story short, I do like the shorter cranks, saddle was raised to about 70cm with 165m cranks (my inseam is about 30.5, height about 5'9") no changes to the front end, although it was suggested I go to 80m Stem from 90m. Still have my neck pain, I suggested going with a shorter reach/width bar, fitter felt it wasn't necessary, controls already high even though the reach on the Bontrager bars are 100mm.
After watching the last few bike fit Tuesdays, it's clear this frame is probably too big, no clue why the fitter didn't outright tell me that. When I check the measurements he provided, my controls to saddle are about 5 cm too long right now, how the hell is that possible. Maybe I'm measuring wrong, control trough to tip of saddle, that's what the fit says. I feel like the only thing I got out of the fit is probably a decent saddle height & setback. Did my research before going, still feel like I have too much hand pressure, and neck issues. Feel more frustrated than I did before at times. Going to try a new handlebar, and if things don't work out I'd probably toss the frame and get a new fit before purchasing a new frame.
Question is, who will do the fitting??? Just sharing with you folks on the perils of purchasing and fitting. Love James, wish he was in NYC, and I hope he reads this.
PS Going in I knew I had a slight leg discrepancy because down stroke on Left leg always felt shorter than Right. When I'm on the jig trying positions fitter notices I'm listing to one side, right side, he wasn't sure why, and I quote "that's above my paygrade." At that point I knew I was fucked, sorry for the language. After seeing what James did for a client on Instagram, Shane, I knew he would never utter such shit to a client.
Crazy story! Definitely find a different fitter. Re. Reach: i also have a Trek, i reduced reach by 5 cm by switching to 42 cm Deda bars James recommends, and moving shifters backwards. Bontrager bars are simply gigantic. Best of luck with your fit.
I'm 6.1, relatively flexible and ride a 56, alloy endurance bike. Use a 40cm bar, 100mm stem and usually run with two spacers under it. I remember spending time in the bike shop convincing the owner that I didn't need a 58.
TELL ME ABOUT IT! I ride a scott afd expert from 2005/2006, 58 way too big but still ridable. In my bike shop the owner is basically terrified to sell me a 54, on the ground that I'm quite tall (I'm 186 cm) but I do not have the privilege of being very flexible, hence my choice on a 54 endurance orientated bike. It's often very hard to convince a bike shop owner of what you are saying to them when ,of course, you know what you're talking about.
@@st3ange21 What I like about watching the videos with James is that he emphasises Biomechanics. There's an interesting video on Cam Nicholls' TH-cam channel with someone who's the polar opposite to us. The cyclist , Chris is 6'2 and hyper-flexible. Has a custom bike with an extremely long top tube as it's the only way he can cycle without discomfort. Also a bike's purpose is important. I personally prefer to cycle with a smaller reach simply because I commute by bike and it's easier to see traffic in a more upright position.
Glad to hear I'm 6 foot 1.5 pretty flexible and ride a 58cm cross bike at the monent. Just put a deposit down for my first proper road bike a 2021 giant tcr advanced pro 0. In m/l pretty sure I made the right call. I'm technically a large but think fit will be better on m/l test rode a 2020 and it felt great.
@@ricky7396 Nice, like James says bike geometries vary across brands etc. While I think I'm right is saying that the TCR comes with a 570mm effective top tube. So looking at it simplistically and ignoring measurements such as the seat and head tube length being vastly different, there's only a 10mm reduction compared to the L. Obviously I'm not advocating listening to me over a professional bike fitter although I don't personally foresee any issues. Enjoy your bike.
@@gethinap that's a very good reason to get a small bike. But again, i want a smaller bike BECAUSE I need a smaller bike. The only good thing about my scott is that it has a 190 mm headtube and a 57 cm top tube, wich is quite nice for being comfy even if the bike is basically an aircraft carrier ahahah. nice suggestion of video btw! I'm going to watch it right now actually.
So happy to find this video! Makes me feel justified in choosing smaller frames. When I first started getting into riding, bike shops would look at me and put me on 61cm frames. They said I was supposed to feel stretched out, and it was just my core wasn't strong enough, even though I was pretty darn fit. Ended up with a 58 back then, but over the years have drifted down to 56's. But since I work on other people's bikes fairly often now, I've ridden some 54's that with a few small tweaks feel quite comfortable. I never considered going that small, but hearing this guy rides a 52 and is only 3 inches shorter than me makes me wish I'd gone smaller on my recent gravel bike purchase, especially after having to get a shorter stem.
I miss my late 80’s road bike with Greg Lemond Eddie Merckx fit. Relaxed geometry and the saddle height was only a couple of inches higher than the stem. Today that would be considered touring bike fit.
Since I don't have any interest in racing and prefer endurance distances, I feel like my fit has gradually changed over time. The same bike that fit when I was 33 is a bit less comfortable at age 43. Shorter reach, narrower handlebars, and a higher stack height are all on the table for my next road bike. I'm an average height (187 cm), but my wife has a long torso and rides a 53 cm Cannondale that I felt surprisingly comfortable borrowing for a bit. In about nine months, I'll be looking to size down my frame. I appreciate the insights James keeps giving out.
How about a side by side comparison using Jams's bike which fits him perfectly and a off the rack bike to show what a proper fit looks like.
I’m 5’9. I bought a 53’ gravel bike. And I found I was consistently hitting the front tire with my foot. So I traded it in for a 55.5. This was a mistake. I’ve had to make numerous changes and it’s taken me a couple years but I have finally gotten the bike to fit me. I got a zero offset seatpost. Being a gravel bike I didn’t have a problem shortening the stem from 100 to an 80, as this seems to be the trend for gravel bikes anyway. Having very wide shoulders I got an oversized handlebar at 44, which, coming from a mountain bike background, I really like. And so after all that I finally have a bike that not only fits, but actually fits really well. But I don’t know if all this could have been avoided by just keeping the 53 and figuring out the maneuverability of the tire in conjunction with my pedalling. So thankfully this seems to work well for me. I don’t have to slam the seat to the front of the rails and being that I was always short for my age growing up I always rode bikes too big for me anyway, so I’m kind of used to being on bigger frames. But the bike does fit now. I can go on longer rides without discomfort due to sizing issues. And I don’t spend have the ride thinking about how I feel about my fit on the bike. But I am curious to know, what are your thoughts on toe rub? Is it an indication that the bike it too small? Obviously with gravel bikes having larger tires it is going to be more of an issue than with road bikes. I wonder if the bike had 25s on it if I would have hit the tire with my foot once or if I ever would have even considered the bike too small.
I don't think toe overlap should influence your fit. I have toe overlap on all bikes, road, gravel, track because I run my cleats as far back as they go. You just learn to pedal and avoid it.
@@Cade_Media somehow it's really reassuring to hear that people that aren't super short also get toe overlap.
"Fit first, buy later" for bikes makes so much sense to me (now you say it) as a seamstress. I honestly don't know how anyone buys clothes that fit online, or even in shops. Buying stuff is so hard!
This is one of the best bike fit videos ever! This dude rocks!
5'10" on a 52. That's pro style sizing which means you're probably running a very long stem with a massive saddle to bar drop. Would be interesting to see a picture of your bike.
Another great video. It's a mine field. I recently bought a Ridley helium, and I'm sure it's to small for me, although the shop that sold it to me, said it was the right size. My 1st ride on it I felt hunched up. I then reset the saddle height with a formula that a friend recommended to me. This made it better, we then swapped the stem for 1 10mm longer this has made it more comfortable. Having a fit 1st is definitely the way to go. Wish I'd have done this. You live and learn. Keep it up lads.
Great video guys. That kind of knowledge is why I went for a fit at Bicycle
So many bike shops can't afford a large stock. They tend to stock a medium size frame and are motivated to sell it - even if it is too big. I had a lot of problems trying to get a bike to test that was the right size for me. I ended up buying from a shop that had a full range of sizes in stock. 1st I test rode a bike that they thought would be the right size that belonged to one of their mechanics. Second they included a fit on a machine similar to the one James has to see what size that indicated. Only then did they recommend a size. I've since ridden 30,000 miles on it so far - very comfortable for me (Cervelo R5 2016 size 51). I have a friend that thinks it looks like a toy bike... ...but it suits me.
I must admit I'd never have thought a 5' 10" man would ride a size 52. Would the saddle to handlebar drop be quite big? I'm roughly the same height but perhaps with a slightly longer leg and have a H2 Emonda in 56 and Focus Paralane in 54. Stack and reach roughly the same between the two. I'm older and not overly flexible so run 20 mm of spacers too. Reckon a 52 even in endurance geo would be way too small for me, but happy to stand corrected.
@@Quizmate1 Two manufactures size 52 might be quite different. Even when Stack and Reach look similar they can differ due to the Top bearing cover - some are a couple of mm while some 15mm or so - that difference combined with the head tube angle may alter the effective Stack & Reach. A smaller bike is just more fun to ride IMO - more nimble and lighter. Although I have a size 51 R5 I wouldn't mind trying a size 48 for fun. I might need a spacer or two but I'm sure it would work.
Best thing I ever did was book a fit with James. He really knows his stuff and looks at the rider and their make up rather than angles and numbers.
I have since bought a new bike and used the fit data to buy it. It’s the best fitting bike I’ve ever owned and the comfiest to ride. Thanks James. And following a great follow up fit a few weeks back the position is even better again. 👍👍
I guess this is the most relevant sizing video! I'm 187 cm tall with 90 cm inseam and I was searching for a supersix evo 2017-2019. The sizing guide recommended 58-60, but those bikes are long on reach, so ended up with a 56 size. With 15 mm setback the bike feels great. Thanks for the video! Great job!
Same here 182 87 inseam riding a 56 evo, still too big with 90mm stem and shorter bar
How to get the right size frame? GO SEE JAMES! or someone qualified like him before you buy!
Best decision of my life
Thanks for the info....I just bought a bike and it was too big for me and thankfully it could be returned. So now I need to look for a bike fitter and then a bike. Seems like a proper approach!
I’ve been on a size 56 for 3 years, from a uk manufacturer who recommended that frame size at point of sale.
I’ve found I’m too stretched out but have made improvements most recently with the help of an IBFI fitter. Looking to my next purchase I had settled on a Scott Addict as a possible, size 54 gave me a nice 15mm reduction in ETT, with a steeper seat tube and slacker head angle I ought to be a lot less stretched out, went to have a look at one and the shop said “No way you should be riding a 54, more like a 56 or 58. You just can’t get the stack height on a 54, you need to be on a bigger frame to come up and back”. The irony here is that the 54 Addict has a higher stack height than my current 56 size bike! (They then tried to suggest I needed a fit from them, completely disregarding my recent fit)
I’m no expert but I think the industry has real issues when it comes to fit, like you say in the video the issue seems to be that a lot of people are on too big a frame, too stretched out.
Without an industry all agreed on sizing it is a minefield for the consumer. Fitting is also not guaranteed to be consistent across fitters either.
How tall are you David?
@@conradk5711 I’m 6ft / 183cm tall.
@@TheCharnwoodCyclist yeah mate, just goes to show how height isn’t the only factor. I’m an inch shorter than you and ridden 56 specializeds for over 10 years, fit me great
I'm a comically short, fat bloke so no amount of bike fit will help, particularly as a fit would cost almost half of what my cheap, Decathlon push-iron did!
These videos are amazingly informative though and if I was a wealthier chap, I can completely see the sense in getting a fit BEFORE buying some fancy bike. James' knowledge is incredibly impressive and his passion and enthusiasm are very infectious. So nice to hear someone getting stuck into the inconsistencies of the industry's sizing model.
Also great to hear that the aggressive geometry of the race bike is unsuitable for the majority of people ("most consumers shouldn't be riding race bikes" @7:42). From what I've read, most pros are freakishly fit, strong and uniquely adapted to cycling, almost to the detriment of other activities (such as walking around the shops with his girlfriend, according to Tyler Hamilton's book!).
James has a weird energy… He clearly loves bikes and is very knowledgeable, but the way he talks makes it sound like everything bike-related also pisses him off! 😂
Dry British humor
I call the crucial dimensions the "cockpit" - the seat, hands on bars, and crank/pedals. Primary dimension is the pedal to saddle distance, and setback. This establishes the rider's balance over the crank and leg extension through the pedal circle. Second is effective stack and reach = vertical height from crank center to main hand position (typically 80% on the brake hoods); hood angle usually close to flat, but rotating bars to adjust requires re-measuring and often changing bar extension and stem height. Modern brake/shift units extend up to an inch forward, from old brake hoods, screwing with the fit and reach, while basic frame geometries actually have barely changed in 40 years - short riders still suffer from too long an effective top tube, where no stem is short enough to keep from tipping too far forward. Racers can lean farther forward because their faster speeds, effective lift from airflow, and higher torque balance them, versus a slow recreational rider. Yet most fit formulas plug the same criteria in as the "LeMond fit" circa 1985.
As to "Pro Fits": After riding several years with no issues, having been set up by a couple local racers doing fits for shops, my wife splurged for the mid-level fit, from THE "guru" outfit to the stars for decades in Colorado. Not he, but one of his staff changed saddle, height, setback, bars, and reach. Within half a dozen moderate rides up to 40 miles, she developed half a dozen issues; they re-checked her with a different staffer, and changed most everything back to nearly her original setup. Problems resolved.
The point is, one needs to be suspicious of a lot of high-tech magic, especially micro-measurements, because on a perfect fit, we move back and forth, up and down, adjusting for gradient, effort, aero position if descending, etc. Find a fitter through word of mouth; they can often intuit by watching you, where a change is needed, regardless of formulas and pricey tools and lasers, etc.
Twenty years ago there were ten sizes, 2 cm difference between each one. Now there are two sizes, too small and too large
Probably the best knowledgeable advice I have heard in all my years of cycling. Thank you
Bikefit tuesdays needs an intro! With Different shots of James and his epic monologues 😂
Priceless video - so much relevant info. I'm 5'10" also and ended up on a small frame after a fit. More room for manoeuvre with other components too.
Another problem is cyclists thinking that stretched-out discomfort is all part of the experience and wouldn't stop to question it. Average-shaped blokes Supermaning it on oversized frames.
It strikes me as odd that for how much time manufacturers spend shouting about increased exposed seatpost length and subsequent deflection increasing comfort, that they haven’t invested more in making sure consumers buy a bike that fits them.
If you purchase a bike that’s too big for you, it would then be by the manufacturers own logic, harsher to ride because you don’t have enough exposed post for the bike to absorb vibration/impacts as intended.
This video may come off as "rambly" to some but there are some absolute gems of fit wisdom here. Sadly, many salespeople in bike shops spread bad information about fit, which then gets perpetuated throughout the industry/hobby/sport.
Love bike fit Tuesday. Me and Guppy play bike fit bingo. Every time James mentions an ache or pain we tick it off. Wide bars high saddle I've got the lot.
Numb hands : tick
Back pain : check
Shoulder pain : yep
🤣😂🤣
@@jamesguppy483 5’9 = 56 frame
check
@@jamesguppy483 twisted in wrists because bars are too wide
Check
I would LOVE to see James talk about fitting tips for someone with short legs and a really long torso. I’ve always had so many fitting problems.
a race bike or one with short headtube would fit those with short legged
Another great helpful video, I’m 6’3 tall and when I first started riding I was on an 54cm WSD bike , did me ok however I’m now on a 60cm Trek Emonda and have had a 58 cm Trek 1.2 in between and feel the more comfortable on the 60cm keep up the great content guys
I'm the same height And have 2006 Trek 1200 58cm. I found it cramped after a while. I switched to an XL Merida scultura disc (they don't do a XXL so probably a 60 equivalent) and it is a better fit. Geometry is different though. The real difference was comfort and speed. I was a minute faster on a hill segment near me first time I got on it.
I am just under 6 feet and have been riding my wife's 54 cm Scott addict and it's quite comfy with a few adjustments.
I appreciate this channel. It has helped me adjust my bike to my liking.
I mountain biked for years and tried road bikes going through 4 different bikes many stems bars seats etc etc and ultimately gave in, even looked a bike fitter about 30 miles from me no use at all, he said unless you have a bike in mind he has know base to start from, I'm 6" 19 stone with a 29" inside leg, (and yes was this size all the time I road mountain bike) The road bikes sizes I tried were a Bianchi 55cm, Lappiere 58cm, Secialized 56cm and Pinnacle 58cm none of which ever seemed correct and now having come across this channel I understand why and also understand the total lack of knowledge in most shops, some day hope to give it another go and now know where to start
I recently spent a lot of money on a brand new supersix evo. I was in between two size according to cannondale fit charts and I recall the seller just telling me "it's up to you" as only advice to choose the size. I'm planning to do a bike fit but I'm already convinced that the frame is too big for me :-(
Thanks for the video. I love the bikefittuesdays serie
one of the best videos I’ve seen on the subject, very objective and not a marketing gimmick. love your vids
During Covid times in Home Office, this is the only way I realise its Tuesday already or Wednesday or Thursday.
Excellent video on this topic. I had a bike fit due knee pain but only on one knee. At the beginning the fitter said "we've got a lot of work to do". By the end I had new saddle, stem and bars to get where I needed to be on the bike. Since then, no knee pain. If you can get a fit done DEFINITELY do it.
it's fun being 162cm with a 71cm inseam - I'm not only short, I also have short legs for my size. If I were to buy an "endurance" bike from a brand that only goes down to a size 50 I'd be way too stretched out, have the seat post all the way in and a few centimetres lower than the bars... also the 100mm stem length rule of thumb goes out the window with just about any road bike since 28in wheels just simply don't allow a bike to be short enough to allow people my size to run a long stem. Oh, and have I mentioned inevitable toe overlap?
I suppose on the flipside it's easy to pick a bike because it essentially boils down to finding the smallest bike with the lowest but also shortest front end across all brands. No need to worry about fancy brands when they simply don't make a bike that fits.
I'm the same but the other way around so 175cm with 87cm inseam long legs but a short torso.
So most bikes that fit seat length wise will have too long of a reach, and the others that have the perfect reach will have too short of a seat post or I'll have to have it nearly all the way out .
My current bike is an endurance but it got a 12cm saddle to bar drop as the seat is so high.
@@hoshszn4736 hahah, I'm on a race bike and my saddle to bar drop is barely even visible! :D
@@nb_rebecca just shows basic bike sizes are inaccurate for a lot of people as everyone is built differently.
At that point it seems necessary to go to 650c or 650b wheels for such small sizes similar to what I think Canyon or Specialized have done recently. I also remember a video from Emma Pooley where she talks about her move from 700 to 650c being the biggest performance increase she had found as it was able to allow her to get a bike that actually fit finally.
@@RyonBeachner 650b is the obvious solution but as long as Canyon is the only bike brand offering 650b road bikes and as long as there are next to no 650b (road) wheel options that is reserved to people with the means to go for custom frames and start their own wheel brand... 😅
Went to LBS fitter 2 years ago and still suffering from chronic wrist pain after fitter raised my seat 40mm and angled my seat down. Have since gone back to previous setup but wrist pain persists. The only IBFI fitter in my area of San Francisco/San Jose will not take new clients because he mostly does physical therapy. And other fitters will not do fits because of Covid. Last, affraid to spend $300 on a bike fit with no guaranty it will solve wrist problem.
I am 6'1" and Trek's sizing puts me on a 60cm frame. I feel most comfortable on a 56cm though which is 2 sizes smaller. LBS is no help in sizing and said my body just needs to get use to the 58. Yet to get the seat where I need it the post is dropped almost all the way down (Trek domane has limited adjustment) and the reach feels stretched to me.
I had a similar experience. I'm 6'4" and the Trek bike shop salesman was certain 62 cm frame was the only size that would work. I told him I ride a 58cm Tarmac, for years, on long rides with no issues and he looked at me like I was crazy. I test rode the 62cm(Emonda) and didn't like it. Maybe our body geometrys are just weird but it seems like manufacturers and dealers often push big frames too much.
James picked your advice and went with the small bike instead of medium - perfect size for me
So on point, i'm 5'9" and only just realising my 56cm Kona CX is the main cause of all my niggles. Tried new seats, stems and numerous hrs fiddling around when I'm probably like James i'm really a 52.
Yep.... Bought a 56 Synapse (used ) as a first road bike, based on what every website told me i needed to buy.
Currently spending more reducing stems, bars, and pissing about with it as my rides get longer and longer.
Thankfully... Booking a fit before investing in an upgrade.
Love bike Tuesdays!
You _can_ move the gruppo to another frame.
@@AndrewBlucher sure, i know that. Just relating my experience to the video.
Also... Not really worth it.
I thought bikes weren't comfortable for the longest. Bike shop sold me a 58cm bike based on height alone (and what they had in stock). Then I rode a 56 (a 2011 Carbon Synapse in fact)
.... and a 55..... My sweet spot is 100% geometry dependent.
good one. bought an m giant last year in a shop where the guy recommended that size to me over s, which felt better to me. I didnt have a clue so I bought a much too big of a bike. I am 1,74, now running the new cube nuroad 2021 in small and it fits perfectly.
Which size cube did you go for? 53? Thanks.
@@jonharvey3881 size s, small, 53cm fits perfectly.
@toslinked Hi! Can you tell me exactly what model bike you have? I'd like to compare it to the size 51 Rose Backroad, as I'm 172 cm tall. Thanks in advance!
I've always sized down...most calculators put me in at a 56 but that always feels way too large on most bikes...52 or 54 works for me at 5'10
Same here i looked up internet estimates n looking at 54 or 56...but the shop guys said 52 or 54. I think 52!had enough clearnce for my nuts. As 54 might crush them nuts. Lol
If I am ballpark sizing new bikes in the shop, I touch my elbow to the saddle nose (normal stock saddle size and position, as on all new bikes) and the tip of my middle finger ends up mid stem extension. Stock stem lengths on road bikes don't vary that much. A size smaller or larger are way off with this easily repeatable screening measurement. This cubit measurement was used in ancient Egyptian times. Of course this will vary rider to rider, but the principle is the same. Take your best fitting bike and see were your finger tip ends up. Could be closer to the handlebar or the stem bolt, but will be a fairly good guide to narrow down the options. I recommend taking your best fitting current bike and tape measure when shopping for a new bike. Then you can adjust to the exact same saddle height, reach, angles, etc. Have to disagree that you can't buy a bike too small. Do to limited stock I had to settle for a one size smaller single speed road bike than my ideal cubit measurement. Had to make several changes to stem bars and seat post to make it fit decently.
I’m 5’6 and ride a 54. No wonder i feel overstretched!!!
This fellow knows what he’s talking about- useful info throughout the video
Even though my bike is relatively new [2 years] and was “professionally “ fitted, your video fuels that inner voice saying..”am I riding the right frame size and does it really FIT me?”...killing me........JK
The answer to your question is a question for yourself. How happy are you with the fit of the bike in terms of ride comfort? If it feels good then yes and don't over think it.
I'm 6'5 and back in the day rode a 62cm custom job. The builder measured me up before he built the bike and it was a beautiful fit.
The more videos I watch like this, the more lost I become. I'm 5'9 and was recommended a 53. Think I've got my saddle hight right but my reach is completely wrong. Being a brand new cyclist I'm so so lost in what I need to change. Suffering with a little shoulder and neck pain. Any suggestions would be appreciated
Ive been riding for years and now Im questioning my frame sizing. But I've always had my doubts.
Being 5'9 and of average build I was told by my local shop I needed to be on a 56. After many stem changes and a professional fit I still have pain in my neck and between my shoulders after about 10 miles. Casual conversation with another bike shop said I should be on 52-54cm bike.....
Great discussion at what to watch for. I made a classic mistake. I bought a 3T Exploro that was probably the right size. However, I I am 62 years old and found out my hips are not flexible. Just could not ride the bike without hip pain - too aggressive of geometry. I swapped the bike out for an OPEN WI..de, much slacker geometry, much higher stack height and the comfort was amazing. I still swapped to compact bars and shorter cranks, but really love the bike. Smaller frames, shorter stems and endurance geometry made for a completely different bike even though it was “the same size”. I will still have a second bike fit on the OPEN after riding for several months. This will just dial in the last bits and pieces.
This is bonkers, I’m an inch taller than James, every bike I have from surly, cinelli, IF etc are all 56. I run them all with 100/110 mm stems slammed, layback seat posts with between 180-200mm of post. Clearly I’m on the wrong size. But in my mid 40s I’ve been riding these wrong bikes for 20 plus years and approach 100k miles on strava, without any issues. I guess it goes back to the point that the human body can deal with these problems ok, at least from my perspective. I’m about to sell a 54 cm frame because I think it’s too small for me and the amount of seat post I have to run to get what feels like a comfortable pedal stroke looks stupid. I’m very confused! I know, get a bike fit, but do I really want to hear that I need to replace the bike collection lol.
I think its the difference between your flexibility and fitness level that might make the difference. Similarly I'm only 5'7 ish and my bike fit is almost exactly like James' with a 51/52 and a size smaller (48) always feels like Im on a scooter/ clown bike (I actually have the 51cm Synapse)
If you haven't had issues, why change it?
I'm a seamstress, so I've made pants and stuff before. You can have 2 guys the same height and have 2 different inseams, different chest, arm & neck length/width measurements, different wingspans. Height by itself tells you maybe a little about fit. Like where to start, but once you start dicking with the specific measurements, things often change quite a bit.
@@Kimberly_Sparkles Exactly. It's what part of your body is providing that height.
@@katrinagwen I don't think Francis is advocating for changing it just because etc. in your case your fit maybe perfect for you because of your fitness level and flexibility even if you're exactly his height. Other things like your inseams and and torso length etc changes things.
Great video on a very complex topic. I'm just getting back to serious cycling. I'm 5'11.5" tall, and though I'm reasonably fit for a formerly mostly sedentary 62-yr-old, I've never been very flexible through by posterior side. I just bought an endurance/race style bike from a direct-to-consumer shop, where I had a choice of a Medium (recommended for 5'8" to 5'11") or Large (recommended for 5'11" to 6'2"). I went with Medium, and even though it "should be" too small for me according to the very basic sizing selection chart on offer, it is working well. For many years I have had a 2000 model full-on race bike with a horizontal top tube in size 58cm, and it also works pretty well, but if I could magically shrink it to a 56cm or maybe even a 54cm, I would. I was nearly 6'1" when I bought it, and having "settled" over an inch makes a big difference. EDIT: I just noticed that on the new bike's frame there is a sticker that reads "56cm."
Try being a small i’m 5’3’’. The choice is really limited as many smalls are huge and many don’t offer xs. I always end up with specialized as they make xs that are actually small
I'm 5'3" as well and looking for a bike. Which size did you end up with? The 44 or 49? Thanks!
I'm just under 5'6" and ride a 47! Was shamed over my choice but couldn't be happier. Try Argon. Scott makes 47 as well.
@@bathedinshadow what bike do you have if you don’t mind me asking?
@@wasabimane I have an Argon Krypton, size 47. My girlfriend always got a 50 or 51 because that's what bike shops told her. She's 5'4". She recently bought a bike and was about to walk out with the recommended size and I talked her into at least trying their 47 (Scott). She loved it. Bike shops can point you in the right direction, but ultimately test riding is a must!! Some people love big bikes because they feel more stable. I like being able to throw my bike around quickly and easily. It's not the most confidence inspiring going downhills at max speed, but that's okay. Keeps my blood pumping. :)
I'm really loving these bike fit videos, they have helped me understand where I'm going right or wrong.
I'm 6 foot 4 and it's pot luck what bike size I get when I put my details on a bike manufacturers website sometimes
You're so right! I'm 6'5 and went with Canyon's sizing chart and ended up with XL size. I bought one (Ultimate) and used James knowledge to get the fit as close as I could. So far so good. I have had it about a year and so far I haven't experience any pain or discomfort from long rides.
Is choosing a gravel bike size any different to an endurance bike?
I’m 6’2” and ride a 56 and I’m very comfortable on it. I rode a 59 and it was too big.
The most frustrating part is other people telling me my bike is too small for me.
tell 'em to mind their own business. it's the same with a lot of things: people talk when don't know anything about it. ride your comfortable "small" bike and have fun.
56 is large, so it should be fine at 6' 2"
I’m 6’3” and on a 56 also. My friend who works at a bike shop is still convinced it’s too small even though it just feels good but what do I know? My gravel bike is a 58 and needed to get an 80mm stem to get the reach right.
Great video. Very informative content! Gives me peace of mind that a getting professional bike fit before buying my next bike is the way to go. Thanks!
Best comment in this video, "most people shouldn't be riding race bikes"
But... I love the feel of them. The response, the stiffness.
James is spot on, get a fit first. Best money I’ve spent.
100% agree with the points James. James fitted me for my Festka (which fits great). It is a custom frame, but based around their 52 cm, whereas most manufactures suggest I should be on a 54 or 56 based on my long inseam vs (in a relative sense) short upper boddy.
Lovely bike
For me it’s the opposite. My arms are relatively long. Should I opt for 60 instead of 58?
189cm and 89 inseam.
@@lennart8996 get a basic bikefit to understand what's best for you.
This was so interesting and leads me to an experience I had a few years ago. I purchased (rightly or wrongly) a Bianchi Oltre XR4, was bike fitted by a very knowledgable guy in Spain and left the bike there to use when I was there Fantastically comfortable on the bike. Came home and decided to buy a same size Bianchi Oltre XR3 which on paper looks exactly the same with minor millimeter differences in the frame geometry. Result....never been so uncomfortable on a bike despite 3 bike fits by 3 different people. Lesson learnt.
James “Excessive Saddle Height” Thomas
LOL! but he's got point tho, I see a lot of bike fit on my usual shop and customers probably 80-90% of them got Excessive saddle height or the stem is too long. Probably they want to look like pros "Slammed stem with 7-8" saddle height".
@@adobongmanacc6853 Yup. I don't disagree. I've just seen him mention it in pretty much every bike fit Tuesdays video and rightfully so.
@@AmarChadgar yeah man. whenever I see James, I always thought "Let me guess, saddle height?"
@@adobongmanacc6853 yeah, and the best way to achieve that look is to buy a bike that's too small for you and claim it's the right fit where your only excuse for such a decision is to claim that bike manufacturers haven't a clue what they're doing...
drop your saddle 5 cm, switch to a 4 cm shorter stem, add 100 euro arch supports to your shoes. BIKE FIT DONE
Kingfitter James! Yet again, I can listen to him share his knowledge about all things cycling. Granted I may get dropped on occasion, second time around makes it stick! Thanks Francis!!
Next investment.... Bike fit with James.
Answers one of my biggest questions straight away. 5'10", Canyon says I'm a small, which seemed weird lol. Cheers for making these videos and making sense of so much.
Yes, the newer generation Canyons are very big. I just sat on a new womens Ultimate in size S and it's quite close to my older Ultimate in size M. At least they adjusted the recommended rider height as well. But considering my first bike was an Endurace in L thats really funny 😂 (fit on the L was fine actually)
@@Freddy3792 blimey! Sounds like the guide will be right for me then. Cheers for that.
Interesting observations on frame size tending to be too big. I am 6’2”and started out on a 58 cm frame according to the “chart”. After many years of riding I am now on a 55 cm road bike and a 56 cm TT bike. Different manufacturers in all three cases and current sizes giving me the best results.
What might have helped more is to show a few situations that help you know the fit is right... for you. For me it's pedaling feel and you can see it change when it's right.. The pedal stroke becomes effortless to keep fluid. That's when I know my saddle height and fore/aft is pretty close to perfect.
Short legs, long torso, vs. 50/50 vs Long legs short torso also make a difference on frame size and geo. But showing what "right" looks like in some aspect helps me the most when it comes to videos. ....Especially when I'm fantasizing about fixing a problem rather than just doing it. (The whole point of youtube, right?)
But I couldn't agree more that you should get fit on a jig first, then see if those numbers can transfer to your bike. Probably should get fit at least once every 5 years. I'm not the same as I was 20 years ago. I didn't even know what a pro fit was 30 years ago... but I wager it'd have been angle measuring to the bike and likely would've been the cause of problems rather than a fix. So, glad I went with feel/effort/comfort and time improvement based fitting for myself in my early days. The past 20 have been a mixed bag of advice from 'pro' fitters. With people like Steve Hogg changing the scene, I think there is a good chance you can find a good fitter that fits YOU to the bike. Great philosophy.
Nice vid guys! Wondering if you could do a bike fit Tuesdays episode on fitting bikes for younger riders (say 16-20). Being more flexible and usually fitter, is there different advice?
“usually fitter”
Not it the bike world my friend.