Kitchens Without Upper Cabinets | Design Must or Definite Miss?

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 พ.ย. 2024

ความคิดเห็น • 101

  • @kitchinsider
    @kitchinsider  2 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    The first 1,000 people to use the link will get a 1 month free trial of Skillshare: skl.sh/kitchinsider08221

  • @mellostation
    @mellostation ปีที่แล้ว +42

    I designed our kitchen remodel a few years ago with ease of cleanliness and allowance of as much natural light as possible. That meant no upper cabinets because it made our 8' ceilings feel cavernous, slab backsplash because I hate grout, a seamless sink drain because those drain rims are disgusting to me, all drawers, slab fronts, no handles, only one faucet hole, extra space behind the faucet to avoid collection of water, induction hob, etc. At first I thought I was pretty impressive thinking of all of these details and then discovered it's a pretty common european style. 😂😂 But to be honest I wasn't trying to "design" at all. I was only thinking of function.

    • @mkawa1566
      @mkawa1566 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      This is what I am thinking to do with my 80 year old mom's kitchen to make it more functional for her. I'm liking this thinking so much, I would like to go upper cabinetless for me and my hubby too,

    • @lishr4536
      @lishr4536 ปีที่แล้ว

      what material do you use for a slab backsplash?

    • @MrKlawUK
      @MrKlawUK 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@lishr4536glass/coloured glass or if you have a stone style worktop, use a piece of that

    • @alvaroramiro8364
      @alvaroramiro8364 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      When it comes to design and functionality Europe is always two steps ahead of the US.

  • @Caliabra
    @Caliabra 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    As someone who just remodeled their kitchen we had to keep our uppers. I do love the love of a beautiful tiled wall no uppers but it just isn’t practical for us 1) our kitchen is small - our renovation was to increase storage by adding an island and a small pantry 2) no idea where we would put glass ware and plates - it is not functional - just no space. Some people in here are praising the drawers for plates - I don’t really get it/it seems inefficient and you are locked in to certain drawer heights. Ultimately we would need some shallow hutches and we don’t have the space 3) my husband has a glassware collection that needs lots of shelves. 4) I don’t want to deal with cleaning everything on shelves and always making it look nice and curated

  • @SoCalVipers
    @SoCalVipers ปีที่แล้ว +10

    This is a really helpful video. you gave me a lot to think about. The one thing that didn't even cross my mind is how nasty a greasy things will get on an open shelf near the stove. My wife and I are not very tall, so the upper cabinets aren't really easy to use. the bottom shelf if fine, the middle shelf is a stretch, and we often knock thigs over tying to reach them, and the top shelf requires a stool. For our new kitchen, I plan to ditch the upper altogether and just add a few tall pantries. The base cabinets will be all drawers, except for under the sink which will be doors.

  • @mikeberray
    @mikeberray ปีที่แล้ว +15

    No upper cabinets are preferable to me. However, you do need a pantry, so you have somewhere to store the cereal boxes, spices, herbs and canned goods!

  • @BiteandChiu
    @BiteandChiu 2 ปีที่แล้ว +14

    Upper cabinets are a must for me. I have lots of equipment to store and I love the look of my wood cabinets. They are easy to clean look gorgeous.

    • @kitchinsider
      @kitchinsider  2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Sounds nice! I think they are essential for many!

    • @BiteandChiu
      @BiteandChiu 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@kitchinsider Speaking of sounding nice, your voice is very welcoming

    • @kitchinsider
      @kitchinsider  2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Aww, thank you 😊

  • @soroh0062255
    @soroh0062255 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    Living with adhd I've learnt that the things I use every day need to be out in the open. Too much clutter is a nono, I'll totally stuff that even fuller of given the chance, especially when it's hidden. Open shelves that show me the things I use a lot is amazing, and a controlled amount of closed off storage for the things I don't need as often.

  • @ArtOfHealth
    @ArtOfHealth ปีที่แล้ว +4

    I smack my head on the edges and corners of the cabinet by my sink and food prep area. It hurts. I took one long set off because they stuck out too much. I hate getting on my knees to get stuff way down the bottom.

  • @chrishuck56
    @chrishuck56 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    I am contemplating removing the remaining upper cabinets. I want a newer looking kitchen. I have an older mobile home. The cabinets are built in. I have changed out one upper and a lower. I love the newer look.
    I have enjoyed your video. It reflected my thoughts of an open/upper cabinet free wall. And it is the wall over the sink that everyone sees. I also added a pantry cabinet by the fridge across the room. Thankx!

  • @boomcity4942
    @boomcity4942 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    I have been planning my kitchen for about six weeks. Its a small kitchen, but I want to do it right the first time. After watching this video a few days ago I removed the upper cabinets by the window space. I have a large pantry near the dishwasher that I can store the dishes and plan to add a few shelves for some glasses and a few plates. When I was clearing out the cabinets before removing them it became very clear that most of the stuff didn’t even belong in the kitchen. Another advantage is with lighting. The existing recessed lights were too close to the cabinets and I was planning on moving them. This would require drywall repair and texturing. I still plan on replacing the light fixtures with modern LED, but without the cabinets they don’t need to be relocated. Thanks again for all of your videos.

  • @keylime2998
    @keylime2998 2 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    I like uppers with glass doors to keep the space more open. Less dusting too….To reach into the higher shelves you can have kick-boards converted to little pull out steps.

    • @kitchinsider
      @kitchinsider  2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I like it! I think some nice stylish glass fronted cabinets could be a good middle ground!

    • @nvrluki7608
      @nvrluki7608 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Sounds like a great idea, until you realise you have to keep those cabinets really clean and organised

  • @Kenzie_Hill
    @Kenzie_Hill ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Light is my must important requirement, and pantry shelving us a better solution for storage where I can cram stuff. love minimalist approach

  • @architektura204
    @architektura204 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    For any kitchen where cooking is a daily activity, open shelves reign supreme. I'd like to add to your insightful analysis the most significant advantage of open shelves: easy access to all your dishes. Plates, glasses, cups, bowls, spice jars, and oil bottles - everything you need is readily at hand. When you're constantly whipping up meals, these elements are in constant rotation, making cleaning almost automatic. And since we don't use plastic, all our functional pieces are aesthetically pleasing as well. Personally, I have two floating shelves, each 3 meters long, and they've been a game-changer in my busy kitchen. In all my designs, I choose drawers exclusively for the base cabinets.

  • @louisesawyer-cribbie1212
    @louisesawyer-cribbie1212 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    I recently removed two upper cabinets. One that a housed a dated microwave that I have since replaced with new an over the range micro to save valuable space and the other upper cabinet above fridge will be reinstalled over the fridge that was move to other side of kitchen. I will install a new lower cabinet where the fridge once stood. All this to add more natural light to into my condo. I love it no regrets so far. Still in reno mode.

  • @juliajenkins104
    @juliajenkins104 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    We just moved into a home with no upper cabinets. Pantry issues, dinnerware storage issues, need to find solutions for this baker and cook with this huge change

  • @balgrantango460
    @balgrantango460 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    Excellent review of the pros and cons of kitchens without upper cabinets. Thank you.

  • @rufusjohnson3800
    @rufusjohnson3800 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Excellent video. I favor the no upper cabinets look, and am renovating a house where the sink and stove will be on an exterior wall, so having larger windows over the sink and to the sides of the stove should work.

  • @Whatisthis94
    @Whatisthis94 2 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    Great content! We opted to remove uppers in both a small kitchen and a large kitchen. Absolutely love it and specifically, the look, less clutter and simplicity. Only thing I miss is having lights underneath the wall cabinets but oh well

    • @kitchinsider
      @kitchinsider  2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Thanks so much! Sounds great! I'm a big fan of simplicity too. Good point about missing under cabinet lights, although I suppose that's where wall lights can help out. 😁

  • @debraraymer3386
    @debraraymer3386 2 ปีที่แล้ว +9

    I opted no upper cabinets in my last kitchen. Because there were windows, it really opened up the area. We are now building, and have a Great room/kitchen combo. The hub will be on the back wall. I think I will have small cabinets on each side, and leave the hub area without cabinets, but quartz to the ceiling. BTW, the same design show I learned not to have upper cabinets also suggested 2 dishwashers. After having them for 20 years, and even though it is just my husband and me, I will be putting 2 dishwashers in my new house.

    • @boomcity4942
      @boomcity4942 ปีที่แล้ว

      I like your two dishwasher idea. I thought about that.years ago and people laughed. I am redoing my kitchen cabinets and am rethinking that solution. Thank you for adding your comment.

    • @alvaroramiro8364
      @alvaroramiro8364 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      2 dishwashers only makes sense when you have 2 sinks, to put one next to each, or if you live 7+ people in the same house 😊

  • @betsylatham5023
    @betsylatham5023 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Putting our dishes in a drawer was one of the best things we did. It is right across from our dishwasher so we barely have to move to unload it. I didn’t bother with one of those expensive peg systems - just put some ridged clear plastic shelf liner in. The dishes are heavy enough that we don’t find they move around much if at all when the drawer is opened.

    • @kitchinsider
      @kitchinsider  2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Love it! Sounds super functional!

    • @chorebunny8080
      @chorebunny8080 ปีที่แล้ว

      Love having my plates and bowls in the drawer too !

  • @mslindadoll
    @mslindadoll 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    I'm tall....and when helping my mother in the kitchen when growing up, she always left the upper cabinets doors open and I always found them with my head.
    I HATE UPPER CABINETS AND HOODS. THEY LITERALLY GIVE ME A HEADACHE.
    At 5'9" I've spent my life in kitchens designed for shorter people. This next kitchen will be designed with me in mind. And I'm not going without upper cabinets totally; I'm just opening the kitchen to the dining room ....it should improve the light and the flow. Thanks for discussing this....

  • @kevinmarcianoonan8822
    @kevinmarcianoonan8822 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I really like the idea of a no upper cabinet kitchen. I'm short and "not a kid"..I have been getting rid of seldom used items and moving things around so that I can reach them with ease. Thanks for all the great ideas!! Really enjoyed watching!

  • @zeveroarerules
    @zeveroarerules 2 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    I need my cabinets. I have to be able to store so many things I use to cook. The issue is I love cuisine from all over the world and they all need their specific utensils. Or maybe that's just me and I just love stuff to play with in my kitchen 🙂
    And I found the pendant I want as worklight above my island... Occhio Sento Sospeso. Seen the thing in action. Guess I know what to skip a vacation for.

    • @kitchinsider
      @kitchinsider  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Oooh the pendant light looks lovely! What colour finish would you go for?

    • @zeveroarerules
      @zeveroarerules 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I think it'd almost have to be the mat white one. I mean I like the mat gold or phantom too, but I don't think that would work with the accent colour of my cabinets in the background. Too bad about the price, because it's an amazing thing. You can just pull it down to get it closer to the surface, use hand gestures to turn it on or off or use the dimmer function. If only it was half the price, It would have been sold then and there...

  • @lauramiller6106
    @lauramiller6106 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Everyone in my family is quite tall. We could more easily forgo base cabinet storage than wall cabinet storage. Thanks for the video.

    • @kitchinsider
      @kitchinsider  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Sounds a bit like me. I find wall cabinets very useful! Thanks!

  • @TripleGems.
    @TripleGems. ปีที่แล้ว +3

    NO UPPER CABINET PREFERRED CAUSE IT IS SPACIOUS,,, FEEL SO BREATHABLE,,, IT WILL BE MONITORED OF EVERYDAY TOUCH UPS,, AND SORT OF A MINIMAL CLEANING MAINTENANCE ,,,THERE ARE A LOT OF BOX ORGANIZERS ASWELL TO BE PUT ON THE COUNTER TOP THESE DAYS JUST THOSE EVERYDAY OR USUAL THINGS USED LIKE DAILY COOKING AND ETC...M🙏😊👊🤸‍♂🌟

  • @MoonSpinners
    @MoonSpinners ปีที่แล้ว +2

    We’ve never had the kitchen in our 1950s house fitted, it’s just free standing cupboards, no wall mounted upper cabinets and we’ve survived since 1970 😂

  • @stephensparks2023
    @stephensparks2023 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Thinking of a new kitchen without upper Cabinets! Seems to make sense! I’m at that age were its not practical to be standing on small stepladder to access plates etc!
    Looking a smart storage idea’s
    Thanks for you helpful Video
    Feel you’ve answered my concerns

  • @aphetrerryac3603
    @aphetrerryac3603 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I love this -- I do not think it is a "miss," personally. I want the openness, with less "clutter." This look would give me the ability to have windows -- creating a bright and airy space -- perhaps for several houseplants. I figure what I would replace those upper cabinets with would be a decent walk-in pantry -- perhaps a window in there, too. Keep all the extra equipment out of sight until needed.

  • @neilpickup237
    @neilpickup237 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    As someone who prefers a wide variety of home cooked meals and a (generous by apartment standards) 2.6m x 2.2m kitchen area with one corner lost to a 0.6m x 0.6m utility stack, I would not be able to cope without my wall units, especially when you consider that once you take out the appliances, I am left with 2.2m of flexibility, a single very useful deep drawer under the oven in the housing unit (part of the remodelling to gain additional storage), and the space under the sink - much of which is taken up by a waste disposal unit and plumbing, or difficult to access as half of it is in the corner with no direct access, and the indirect access severely compromised by the plumbing etc - basically useless for anything requiring regular access, or of any size!
    In fact, I have re-modelled my kitchen to squeeze in additional cupboard space, which while it may be (slightly) less aesthetically pleasing, it has, with the addition of an extra shelf over what is usually provided, allowed me the luxury of having direct access to more items, as I no longer need to stack as many differently sized ones.
    I now have a much improved working environment which is still good to look at - this is important when it is open to your living/dining area!
    I fear that minimising, or even loosing wall units will in so many UK kitchens, which unlike those in so many other countries also contain at least a washing machine - sometimes even a separate drier, sacrifice function over form.
    As belts are increasingly tightened with more meals home prepared from ingredients, I fear that the lack of space and equipment (typically acquired over many years or passed down/on) will turn into a deep regret.

    • @kitchinsider
      @kitchinsider  2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Very true! Many kitchens here in the UK are much smaller than those we see in the US or even Australia and storage (wall cabinets) is an absolute must with so many other appliances/cabinets competing for space.
      Great idea to add an extra shelf in the cabinet. Often times there's wasted dead space. 👍

    • @Caliabra
      @Caliabra 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      I feel you and my cooking is not even that complicated

  • @MTKDofficial
    @MTKDofficial 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Hey! Great video! Congrats on the sponsor! Another reason to get rid of your wall cabinets is if they are green. (hehe)

    • @bluedrummajor2876
      @bluedrummajor2876 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I just finished watching your 2 hr marathon with Nick Lewis. How interesting to find a comment from you on this channel. But now that I think of it, I think I have seen your comments here before.

    • @kitchinsider
      @kitchinsider  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @Mark Tobin - How dare you! Haha! Thanks, I assume you put in a good word for me. 😉

  • @anonz975
    @anonz975 ปีที่แล้ว

    Great video. I definitely want shelves instead of upper cabinets and this gave me more ideas.

  • @ziggy33399
    @ziggy33399 ปีที่แล้ว

    Loved it. Wish I knew if having a frig below counter , microwave too. How to hide appliances (the juicer, VitaMix, Instant Pots, Kitchen Aid, Toaster, Coffeemaker) . What to do? I’d love to have art on the walls in my kitchen . Pots & pans.

  • @boomcity4942
    @boomcity4942 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    It was wonderful to be able to search TH-cam with the question “do we really need kitchen cabinets and find your video. As I have been designing my kitchen I have stumbled onto many videos that you created. You are thoughtful, creative and logical. Your delivery of your messages is clear and concise. Thank you for all you do. You are a benefit to the community. My new kitchen will incorporate many of your ideas.

    • @kitchinsider
      @kitchinsider  ปีที่แล้ว

      Thank you so much, that's very kind! Best of luck with your new kitchen!

  • @JoesPhenomenal
    @JoesPhenomenal ปีที่แล้ว

    I'm building a TH-cam studio kitchen for my channel out behind the house in a Tuff Shed... I'll be doing a design with no upper cabinets. Not too concerned about storage, especially since most of our dishware, etc is going to stay in the main kitchen... In fact, a lot of the lowers will probably not have a ton of stuff in them anyways..just what I need for recording.

  • @superlynnie
    @superlynnie 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    In old European cities, closed cabinets are mainly for hygienic purposes. 100 years old houses come with mice. 😭

  • @stellacharlespedersen5995
    @stellacharlespedersen5995 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Another 10 mins great content. I agree when you have those lovely porcelain dishware it can be a bit of a lift when having to take them down to then restack. Signed on to skillshare 😊

    • @kitchinsider
      @kitchinsider  2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Thanks so much! I totally agree!

  • @xSaraxMxNeffx
    @xSaraxMxNeffx 5 หลายเดือนก่อน

    my husband and i moved into a new rental recently and due to emergency didnt get to be very choosy about where we moved. our kitchen is....workable, but its quite small and has one usable upper cabinet (but its so thickly painted shut im afraid to pry it open and damage something). base cabinets... they have one drawer. the corner cabinet works for pots and pans and whatnot, but right now my dishes (a set of four bowls, four plates, four cups, and three tupperware) are living on the top shelf of my pantry.
    I kinda feel like in rental having no uppers at all is a bad move.

  • @lisalangfoss1124
    @lisalangfoss1124 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I am remodeling a kitchen in a 55 and older community. It makes a lot of sense to use drawers for glassware, plates and pots. The kitchen already has enough room for a large pantry so I am not losing any storage space.

  • @flowerseva
    @flowerseva 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Thank you for the free month of skill share! I’m a big fan of the open look without upper cabinets. I’m preferring an accent hutch for the show off fancy stuff, and wall pantrys in select locations. Practically speaking, I love an open shelf, but hate dirt dust grease…. Hence the glass front accent hutch ( in a bleached wood finish). Also loving Greige cabinets… softer warmer tones. I love your channel!! Thanks so much for being concise and packing a ton of info in only 10 mins! Big thumbs up 👍🏻 🙏😘💫

    • @kitchinsider
      @kitchinsider  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Thank you so much! Really pleased you're enjoying the channel! 😊

  • @DELACREMEDELAthegod
    @DELACREMEDELAthegod 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    I thought this was my idea! lol

  • @nandakishorpune
    @nandakishorpune หลายเดือนก่อน

    One practical reason is accessibility , especially as a senior citizen. Avoiding one reason for falls.😊

  • @celestevinassa
    @celestevinassa ปีที่แล้ว

    I love the look of no upper cabinets, like the green and white kitchen you showed. But alas, where does one put one's stuff.

    • @kitchinsider
      @kitchinsider  ปีที่แล้ว +1

      That's the catch! Looks lovely but how practical is it for your needs!? 😊

  • @JL-hn6hi
    @JL-hn6hi 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    A delight to see your vid, Michael !

  • @StrikerNNLL
    @StrikerNNLL 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Good video mate! Keep it comming :)!

    • @kitchinsider
      @kitchinsider  2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Cheers! Thanks for watching! 👍

  • @lizabetx483
    @lizabetx483 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    A nearby pantry is key to keep all extra food stores and equipment.

  • @ping7364
    @ping7364 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I personally prefer a kitchen without an upper cabinet for one of many reasons: to feel no stress because I have an aunt who consumes and consumes many kinds of stuff to the point that her new kitchen becomes a garage. I'm not too fond of too much stuff to look cluttered.

  • @susanschlesinger4791
    @susanschlesinger4791 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    I have what amounts to a cottage home (casita) with no halls and with the sala and cocina open. And I have NO upper cabinets. Now I am realizing I may have more options. Thanks

  • @iamjohancastellanos
    @iamjohancastellanos 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Hello, great to see you again! How are you? I ♥️ this content. Thank you

    • @kitchinsider
      @kitchinsider  2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Thanks so much! Doing okay, thanks for asking. Hope you're good too!

  • @cbbiesbcces385
    @cbbiesbcces385 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Lovely thanks !

  • @fineartlifestyling
    @fineartlifestyling 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Excellent video, such great arguments.

  • @deborahgreenwood8254
    @deborahgreenwood8254 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Good to see you back! Still umming and arring over this one 😂

    • @kitchinsider
      @kitchinsider  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Thanks! Pros and cons to everything! 😁

  • @sangeethasubramaniam4081
    @sangeethasubramaniam4081 5 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Wonderful tips

  • @Xingqiwu387
    @Xingqiwu387 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    If the owner ever develops back problems, they'll forever regret the absence of higher cabinets.

  • @lifeby2044
    @lifeby2044 5 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I won't have top cabinets 1.- I am 152mt tall 2.- I don't think I have that much to put in them 3.- if I do they will need to go all the way to the ceiling ...I rather have a nice cooktop

  • @annamercieca6906
    @annamercieca6906 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Thanks 👍

  • @paulettepeterson4877
    @paulettepeterson4877 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

    No upper cabinets for me. I prefer the flow of having only base cabinets and a pantry.

  • @Lilzvx
    @Lilzvx 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    on point.

  • @blogginglife7956
    @blogginglife7956 ปีที่แล้ว

    Useful

  • @mjchmb
    @mjchmb 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Good idea

  • @jayjones1220
    @jayjones1220 ปีที่แล้ว

    I like. Gt my interest.

  • @kepckatherinec805
    @kepckatherinec805 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Or you can just eat take out and get rid of all kitchen cabinets. Brilliant!

  • @lisahandley2552
    @lisahandley2552 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    a fan

  • @MixmasterMegz767
    @MixmasterMegz767 ปีที่แล้ว

    hi do you have or use Whatsapp, I need your advice on my kitchen layout. it's a tricky design because of the location area

  • @wearethescoggins
    @wearethescoggins 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    We have no upper cabinets or lower, no need for them at all. ❤️

  • @madonnahagedorn5649
    @madonnahagedorn5649 8 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Beware. You think that putting the dishes in a drawer is easier. The drawers can bear only so much weight. Trust me, they can shift, brake and not close properly, especially if you have no upper cabinets to disperse your items. Open shelves are not for the household that does not look designer perfect. Kids cups, plasticware, mismatched glasses and mugs are a part of most households and it can result in a cluttered look. If you must have them, so be it.

  • @balgrantango460
    @balgrantango460 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Yes to no upper cabinets...fewer lower cabinets....less counter space = less clutter. Good for people who eat simple, don't cook much or spend little time in a kitchen.

  • @snehasisswain1055
    @snehasisswain1055 ปีที่แล้ว

    Hu9uq9qeiieieieo

  • @LiberatedMind1
    @LiberatedMind1 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Cabinets in general are a horrible idea.