PC-12 crash in Mesquite Texas.
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ต.ค. 2024
- Breakdown of the 2020 PC-12 crash in Mesquite Texas.
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This controller did a fantastic job of not making the situation worse. He’s working the hardest position inside of D10 and maintained frequency control and excellent awareness. The decision to tell the pilot where to go isn’t something everyone would do.
10:58 He "Came up short" because he stalled it short. See that he is turning to align very shallow bank and using mostly rudder. Which produced a skid, which ..stalled the left wing. Fear to bank as needed to align. Skid stall.
Great Breakdown!
Hi praise from the master! Love your channel BTW.
Oh yes, the pilot really broke it down to pieces.. Was not short. He stalled by not banking at all to align and skidding turn. Fear of banking some have. What a shame. A 2,200 hour ATP Afraid to bank as needed. Anti Banking ATP. Shame.
The propeller was slowly feathering due to severe mis-rigging of the beta control cable; work was conducted that day. Was that a second 360??
The first thing you do is declare an emergency.
Retired FI(A) from Germany (EDDH / EDHE) here: during training for PPL it is obligatory to train a simulated engine failure (idle power) several times. As a standard we begin this exercise at 2000 ft AGL over the RWY threshold. Goal is to touch down within 150 meter after threshold. Another mandatory training is a simulated engine failure cross country, but unfortunately limited to 500 ft AGL due to regulations here. Both also part of the practical excam.
Not a must, but I trained it from various positions and altitudes with my students. Sometimes - when situation allowed it - I cut off the engine to have a real dead stick with the resulting silence. Making my very first experience on gliders helped me.
If students would begin on gliders for at least a couple of flights, I think they would be trained much better to basic flying skills, using the ruder pedals not only for steering on the ground and braking ;-)
These are VERY good points. So thankful for your contribution. A set of glider lessons and expenditure is probably going to save lives. A cost well worth it. I would assume 3K or less. What's your life worth people?
@@dabneyoffermein595 Thank you for your reply 🙂 Regarding the costs of glider flying I'm not up-to-date. My experience is 50 years ago. Anyway, here in Germany glider flying is primarily organized in clubs. Last year (2023) I was told that there is at least one club that offers glider flying more commercially (at EDLO).
@@SteepTurnCost for glider flying is way less than flying SEP, so that’s not an issue at all. There are at three more commercial glider schools in Germany: Wasserkuppe, DASSU (Unterwoessen), Burg Feuerstein
@@SteepTurnCost for glider flying is way less than flying SEP, so that’s not an issue at all. There are at three more commercial glider schools in Germany: Wasserkuppe, DASSU (Unterwoessen), Burg Feuerstein
Kerry I really enjoy your briefings on this
Thanks!
Did I miss it or did he not ever declare?
No he didn't
He declared his loss of engine, current and initial NG readings, engine sounds, altitude, descent, heading, ignition status, intent to try to fly 30 miles after a virtual emergency, intent to do a 360 and land on 18 with 5 kn tailwind instead of landing on 36, pretty much everything except his W&B calculation and flap settings. Would have been an easy vectored cruise to the nearest Class D. Chain of bad calls.
You can argue that since he had enough altitude over the towered airport, him skipping Rockwell didn't end up playing a role at all. Fascinating.
The pilot has watched too many WWII movies where the B-17 limps back over the English Channel to the cheers of the mechanics in England.
Nice work Kerry and Connor. On the PP exam there’s a question: if you lose power or engine out what do you do?
A: look for an immediate place to land safely.
NO' ! WE ARE GOING TO BE IN THE HUDSON!!
Can't agree with other commenters chiding you. Aviation is unforgiving. Pilot let the airplane get away from him and made some bad decisions. Not going for Rockwall immediately. Trying for another turn at the end in a low-energy situation.
It's a good cautionary tale for all of us. At the first sign of trouble put it down, troubleshoot on the ground.
In a low-energy situation know your DMMS. If hot and high but below DMMS then put it down and take the runway excursion! If you already made the bad decision to turn when airspeed falls wings level, nose down, and land it in the airport grass. Whatever you do don't keep trying to turn with low airspeed!
This pilot spent a lifetime of luck that the wings tore off taking the fuel tanks with them before the fire. He could have just as easily burned to death as many others in similar situations have.
Put a Friar's hat on the GOTR (guy on the right) and you'll get a Father Sarducci.. How you gonna take him seriously?
Somebody forgot how to forward slip to loose altitude. Had he forward slipped he could've avoided the second 360 and let out the forward slip as needed with the runway right out the front window. I have used this maneuver multiple times for power off 180s. It works really great 😉
also, in conjunction with the forward slip (if needed) shallow S-turns can be made while keeping the runway pretty much out front as well.
NOOOOO ! Those maneuvers are difficult. I get so scared doing them.. LOL >>
@@emergencylowmaneuvering7350 LOL.. Jay .. LOL..
When he was explaining what happened, just before you said _"Cool story, bro!"_ I actually thought this was a good idea. I don't know if those small airplanes have a blackbox and if they do, how much data they actually record. I saw this as him leaving as much info as possible, knowing it would be recorded by the tower, in case he crashed and died, to help the NTSB or FAA (not sure who does the investigations in the USA) understand what went wrong.
Now, about him coming short, I'm not a pilot, I have never even flown on a simulator or played a realistic flight video game but don't you train for this kind of situations? It makes sense to me that you need space and time to lose height but don't you have some kind of formula, something like "at this speed, at this angle, it will take me so many miles to get to X altitude"? Again, I don't know anything about aviation but I would have thought that this was something pretty basic when you're training to become a pilot.
The Air Force does have a standard procedure but there isn't one for civilian pilots. That's why I made up my own. Check out my video on Deadstick landings.
th-cam.com/video/XizTlN_EjKg/w-d-xo.html
The NTSB report is an interesting read. The pilot hat over 2200 hours with 1137 in the PC-12. Boutique Airlines flies PC-12s on regular passenger service to/from smaller airports. He was flying solo on the same say that work had been done to correct a hard to move Power Control Lever (aka throttle). Cables were misrigged which allowed he oil flow to the propeller constant speed unit to be shut off; resulting in the propeller to gradually go the the feathered position.
I was a little surprised hat the NTSB did NOT blame the pilot for the accident ( at least a little.)
That description makes no sense technically on a pt6
He doesn’t deserve blame for the accident or risk of bent metal. But the vast majority of the damage was due to bad decisions and bad flying, or bad training.
Thanks for these videos! I’m working towards my PPL and working on emergencies. I played around in Flight Simulator and did dumb stuff like this heading for an airport, and came up short of the runway but in MSFS the wings don’t break off in a fiery mess. These videos have me going into my next real flight with the overall strategy. Get over the airport, then circle down.
Watch my video on deadstick landings. It will help. I like to make my last 360 right over the numbers flying up the runway.
Great video. I enjoyed having your perspective on the decision making for this pilot. I'm at the phase of my flying carreer (or hobby...whatever...) where the most danger comes from the decisions I make. That's over 250 but under 500 hours. I found it helpful to see how two much more experienced pilots react to this chain of events.
My new goal in life is to not be the subject of one of your videos...
And THIS is why you need to practice your dead stick landings. The appearance of the runway as you set up to land when you have power is not what you will see when you are landing with power off! You come down much faster and much shorter when the prop is no longer turning. I was fortunate that my primary flight instructor had me practice circling down to land at idle power during my PP training… when I had to do it for real 3 years ago with a dead engine, my training allowed me to anticipate the landing picture so I was able to select an appropriate landing field and put the aircraft down on the wheels in good control on flat ground. The ground comes up MUCH faster than you expect it will based on your normal powered landings. ALSO: this is why you should do your spiral descent directly over an airport (if there is one, as was the case here). This pilot was too far from the runway in the end because he was doing his spiral too far from the field.
In 40 years of flying I've never seen anyone practice this except me. Blows my mind.
@@KerryDMcCauley well, then you’re doing the aviation community a great service by stressing this. Keep it up!
My First CFI also introduced me to 8 degree glide power off LDG first. Even though that delayed my initial solo, I'm glad I know what the sight picture looks like. He could have very well made it with a forward slip without the circling.
This was not the right time to roll the dice! Yes, make the field before dropping the gear, otherwise you may not need the wheels
I don’t think this is entirely fair, for a part 91 driver, single crew in an engine out on a potentially heavy performance single it’s a bit harsh to criticise his comms so flippantly - in the end he navigated communicated and aviated (best he could) I pray you never find yourself in that situation knowing your every word will be critiqued by ‘experts’ on YT. There is enough stigma and timidity in aviation as it is without pilots now having to fear armchair critiquing and public humiliation after the fact.
Nope. They weren’t criticizing the pilot here initially. They were applauding his aviation and communication, and recommending others do the same. Then he turned it into a podcast or documentary. He stopped aviating and navigating, and started over-communicating. All he had to say was “descending 6000.” Probably just calming his nerves, bud dude! From a Pilatus pilot? Then he makes a bad decision based probably on availability of service instead of life safety, AFTER descending and shedding some of the altitude benefits. He never declared PAN-PAN or MAYDAY, even though the situation called for it. Then made a terrible decision to lower gear too early. Ultimately, bad aviating, bad navigating, bad communicating, and bad ADM. probably the result of hours-building instead of learning. Only the pilot, friends or family would try to support and defend that performance. He got lucky.
Another dandy video, Kerry & Connor.
That dude needs to practice more engine-outs until he can nail a smooth ldg.
Actually, it sounded like the pilot was verbally working thru the problem & his procedures. He just had the mike keyed as he trouble-shot, probably forgot to let go after his last transmission. Hardly a sin.
😂 Actually, it sounded, and looked, like he had no business flying a PC-12!
If he'd made for that 1st airport, Mesquite, right away he might have made it? Wonder if he was watching his airspeed and pitch the whole way? Over the last 20 yrs, I think there have been 2 or 3 of these PC12's that have stalled a wing and crashed after power loss. Not Good.
I think he would have got down before his engine quit. Maybe.
Kerry, from reading your books, you pushed your luck at times and still won them all.
Youre a dang sharp pilot.
Aviate first, ATC comes last.
NOOOO! let me call Mom and Dad first.... LOL>>
He passed two airports
Thanks for sharing.
I’m a private pilot and own and fly a Cessna 172, I fly about 130+ hours a year.
This is why I don’t fly with other pilots, it’s a shame the pilots flying today are an accident waiting to happen.
Many good pilots have been killed as passengers of bad pilots making mistakes, Richard MacSpadden of AOPA and former Thunderbird chief is the last big example.
@@emergencylowmaneuvering7350I’m sorry, what makes you so sure that MacSpadden was just sitting there and watching? Maybe he took the controls after take off as briefed? That’s what AOPA says is their standard photo-mission-procedure. Maybe they shouldn’t have taken off in the first place, maybe… I don’t know. Nobody knows. What makes YOU believe you know?
@@timmholzhauer3342 You seen to be anti MacSpadden, which was the best pilot. Let me speak again with my LOToT EFATO Bush PIlot CFi. Well be back.
Looks like the wings and fuel completely separated to the right of the fuselage? If that's correct, how did that happen!? Lucky guy!
Looks like he hit the ground wingtip first as he stalled it in. He is a very lucky guy!
this guy must have been low time very.
I think he had 2200 hours.
No problemo. The last time I checked my tyres I unloaded all of the air and topped off the tyres with HYDROGEN. I'm so darn schmart !!! This way my bird will want to fly higher on my approach giving me the option of letting some hydrogen out ifni need to loose altitude quickly. I always plan ahead like this.
Great Monday Morning Quarterbacking.
Would you guys still be immature, laughing jerks like this if you had this guy in front of you for an interview? - That’s the professional mindset you should run this channel with.
Why is the N number different from his call sign?
That last circle was just dumb. lol
Didn’t have a choice. His decision to land with a tailwind wouldn’t allow him to get down.
@@dennisnbrown I was always taught that it's better to land with a tailwind and run off the end of the runway than not even make it to the runway. He chose option B.
4:54 - yeah you guys are poison to aviation…
Truth hurts bub. Tough attitudes may seem harsh, but it’s necessary and successful. It eliminates the weak. It creates fear of social consequences for failure. We need more tough love like this or you end up with the poor results you see nowadays.
2:58 Chastising the operator's "details recitation" suggests poor aviation understanding by the commenters. Perhaps they were implicitly gloating over their own command of Aviate, Navigate, then Communicate, but the pilot did say he was stable and he WAS Aviating and Navigating to the limits of his conditions. From his tone and confidence I have 0.0 doubt that he would have turned 100% focus to action the second he saw or realized something. Poor to misunderstand the value of what he did, much less giggle over that.
FURTHERmore anyone monitoring transmission, or later joining, might receive CRUCIAL diagnostic info, which in this circumstance might be unavailable in each ensuing minute because he really WOULD be consumed with A and N. So what, that the controller might not care or be able to act on the info (which is foolish if not negligent to presume, gigglingly or not); you can bet he noted that info for when a CFI entered the room, or many other entirely plausible scenarios.
And on top of that, pilot may have been mentally organizing his steps of action, and by vocalizing them might have improved his sorting them out. In fact, that's almost certainly what he was doing. He was working the problem, and giving out details that someone known or unknown (overhearing in his airspace) might have lifesavingly acted on in response. PFFFFFT.
😂 Wrong. Double wrong 😂😂
Very good video analysis.
Glad you think so!
3k+ hours as aerobatics and Bush Pilot CFI. I think saying to pop the gear out "When runway is made" is very wrong. If you sink more when gear out, the you wont make the runway due that, even if . Better to wait until you are getting high to the spot to land on runway, then pop the gear out. Some old phrases are BS. Better to say "When looks like landing long" or When looks im high". MacSpadden was killed by an airplane owner that "Had the runway made". Then not after gear down.
How do you know Mac Spadden wasn’t at the controls? You seem to know more than anyone else.
@@timmholzhauer3342 Owners are the ones that could pop the gear to "save the airplanes from damages" not an expert like MacSpadden. That was a stupid pilot error that cut the glide and made them fall 15 feet under the hill of airport. That post above was posted by my Bush Pilot CFI of 2 decades ago and we discussed that accident to the last detail.
@@CFITOMAHAWK2Ah ok, so you and your CFI were in the cockpit as well. Interesting.
@@timmholzhauer3342 You think the best pilot made those mistakes.. Duhh.
@@CFITOMAHAWK2 The best pilot??? Keep dreaming…
Does the pilot still have a job?
it's easy to armchair quarterback this incident and you two are awfully glib about a man who is clearly in a very stressful situation and trying his best for a successful outcome.
I thought this as well.
I partially agree but in the beginning the pilot sounded calm and it’s indeed questionable why he didn’t go to the 1st airfield. And then he was high enough for the other field and still didn’t make it. That’s a tough one. Would I done it differently? I can only hope I would’ve…
Yes, it’s always easy to Monday quarterback…
No way to land a pc12 in f46. Khqz works fine…
Better than a cattle field.
A PC12 could do 3300ft.
@@GlacierPilotGst well. Not a pc12 pilot here.. but what about the power lines?
3300ft is plenty for a PC12! They are specifically made for short(er) fields. That’s one reason why they are so popular.
@@timmholzhauer3342 great... The power lines could not have created a problem for the landing?