My opinion is: following Dolby positioning is most important for immersive experience. Therefore whatever room can accommodate. Couch close to back wall - go with 5.1.4. You have more space in the back go with 7.1.2. That is if you’re limited to 9.1. In terms of making holes if you do go with 7.1.2 and think you might expand in the future don’t buy ceiling speakers, buy on walls they will work brilliant and you will deal with two small holes later which any self respecting man should be able to deal with.
Just set up 5.1.2 after watching your previous video on the height channels. I put the inceiling speakers a foot in front of the listening position and aimed the tweeters towards the seats. Sounds incredible. It expanded the sound stage so much.
The problem,if you don’t have a designated theater room, your living room becomes your TV center. If you add ceiling speakers your living room furniture is basically locked in. No more moving your furniture around for a change and variety.
Indeed, even for those of us with the luxury of several rooms theoretically large enough to accommodate the placement of a 7 channel ear level bed layer and as many channels of ceiling mounted effects as will be the current vogue, the realities of traffic patterns, staircases, corner located doors, picture windows, etc all too often constrain our ability to do so without very extensive and expensive structural renovations. Hence, I think we’ll see an ever increasing popularity of higher end multichannel active systems such as the new Nak Dragon, B&O Stage, etc.
@@fonkenful i think that the creation of "phantom channels" will be much better in the future. The modulation of a speaker that is really behind you, even if your couch is against the wall. Something they kind of do with dolby atmos for headphones and htrf profiles. Iam with you, 90% of us do not have a 100% perfect layout. In a livingroom not possible. Currently i use 2 Dipols as surr back an another direct speaker right behind me that gets the SUM of both Dipols and is of course a litte bit quieter. It works now, kind of
This is a great video. I have a 5.1.4, but I was always unsure about how effective side surrounds were at imaging rear sound effects. But I had an epiphany: when playing video games that support surround sound, you can really test out the rear speaker location imaging. I was rotating my camera view while playing God of War just to test surround sound, and what I discovered is that 5 bed layer speaker imaging REALLY makes you feel like voices and sound effect travel around and behind you, giving you that immersion and sense of direction. Its the same with Horizon Forbidden West. Sounds behind the player view literally feel like they are behind your ears. I attribute this discovery to my being able to control the direction of the sound in a video game. You dont have the same control of direction of sound in a movie. With movies, I've always just kind of accepted and perceived the noise how it was mixed and configured in my space. But i was always unsure of my rear imaging, and I've read that many 7.1 movies dont even really use the rear channels much. But to summarize, video games are a great way to test and prove that the rear imaging from a 5.1 system works. I considered adding rears, but I think I'm just fine. I agree, 4 heights give a sense of direction above with height effects.
Thank you for sharing your experience! So the immersion is 100% there with just 2 surround speakers, but what about being able to locate the source of sound? Was it travelling more or less smoothly around you?
@@VioletGiraffe That still won’t correct for phase, position, and timing. Where can you buy a house for $20k? I’ll buy a few… If you factor the cost of all the upgrades you’ll be making to AVRs vs just getting a Trinnov and be done with it, then you probably could buy a house with the money you save!
In my personal opinion, Dolby Atmos is just not worth it if you only have two speakers because you only get half the experience: up and down but not forwards and backwards. I started out with 5.1.2 and I have no regrets upgrading to 5.1.4 instead of 7.1.2. I personally get a more immersive experience being in a full dome (or bubble) of sound rather than just a sound fence. A 5.1.4 setup has always felt complete to me, whereas a 7.1.2 feels incomplete. I don't feel like I'm missing out at all by not having rear channels. I would say if you're going to do Dolby Atmos, it's a better investment to get 4 channels. Otherwise, just save your money and stick to 5.1 or 7.1.
I think you are right. I bought an atmos 7.1 and tried 5.1.2 and 7.1. 7.1 gave better immersion for movies. The 5.1.2 is good for gaming, but when you turn the camera the sound is not smooth, you hear it cut out to pass from the suround speakers to the ceiling. I ordered a 9.1 receiver and I'm going to go on a 5.1.4, I'm sure it will be much smoother and immersive.
The correct answer is 7.2.4, of course! 🙂 The best of both worlds. My setup is 6 bipolar surround speakers for the front, side and back speakers , 2 serial connected center speakers, 2 subwoofers in opposite corners, and 4 height speakers mounted at the top of the side walls. But yes, if you must choose between 7.1.2 and 5.1.4, do the 5.1.4 setup and go for the maximum amount of height speakers.
I have never heard of someone rocking so many bipolar speakers. I can't imagine that's ideal for front stage imaging, but I've obviously never heard that type of setup. What made you go that direction?
@@Goose_Lord It is in fact precisely for the front stage imaging I made this choice. It allows the front soundstage to envelop the front and front sides of the room better than direct radiating speakers. They essentially act as front and front wide speakers at the same time.
@@bronstet I'd love to A/B test something like that, but I'm guessing that's what you did already to come to that conclusion. I always heard bipoles are a great solution for those who can't have both rear and side surrounds, but this is the first time I've heard of using them for front mains and front wides. Great idea!
@@Goose_Lord Exactly, Jord. When doing the research to put my sound system together, I found out about bipolar speakers and their purpose of acting as combined surrounds/rears and then figured they could serve the same purpose in front. So I went with it and am very happy that I did.
In my case, I prefer 7.1.2. I have tried both setups in my space. There is not a lot of good Atmos content and I love my surround backs for most content. In my opinion, most movies have more sound coming from my surround backs than my Atmos speakers. Other rooms might be different. I like your videos!
I am in the same boat. I have 7.2.2 and the reality is movies utilize surrounds and surround backs way more than atmos overhead. That is why I didnt go with 7.2.4. I am sure I will get there eventually. I have in ceiling with tweeters that can be aimed, so I just put the atmos in the correct placement for 4 atmos and pointed the tweeters and everything so far sounds fantastic.
Agreed. Right now 95+% of streaming content is from 5.1.0 masters or worse; it doesn't even have height channel data. Deriving the rear channel to get 7.1.X is mathematically relatively straightforward, but there is no formula for deriving height from 5.1. Remember "simulated stereo" before TV stations broadcast stereo? They would do some totally crude processing like sending certain frequencies to the left and others to the right. It would end up sounding much worse than if you just had a single center speaker. Same thing for height channels today; the receiver has to use "simulated height" algorithms like dolby surround to make guesses about what should go up there, but because there is no height metadata, the guesses are really bad, similar to "simulated stereo". Sure, on the best Atmos mixes maybe there is an argument for 5.1.4. But for most content, 7.1.2 is going to sound much more like it sounded on the mixing stage.
Exactly, even though Ealen does a great analysis and arrives at a solid conclusion from a speaker configuration and future expansion pov, it completely forgoes a significant angle which is the available content sound format, whether it’s physical media or streaming.
But isn't most current content at 5.1 especially streaming content, even with upmixing to 7.1, the source will be 5.1 that why its best to go 5.1.4 no brainer imho... It is true that more sound will come out of the rear surrounds but I believe a perfectly placed 5.1 rear surrounds at 110-120 degrees with bright speakers like svs surround elevation will be the best bet, easily attainable by moving could 2-3 feet from the wall, can even use L-bracket to provide the 90 degree mounting point. If its a dedicated theater room for audiophile then 7.1.4 will be king but if you want a normal living room without the clutter of side surrounds or rear surrounds 5.1 is king for the common folks @@slide6577
Team 7 ear level speakers right here! ...but I appreciate what you are representing here. It makes a lot of sense. It's expensive to go 7.1.4. Even with the cheapest receiver, you still have to buy a amp to fully power all of them. You can find 9 channel only receivers for much less, and I really think if you are going to go Atmos you have to get 4 height channels or you are not getting the true 3d audio experience.
I’m going from a 5.2.4 to a 7.2.6 I know my mind will be blown. I loved the .4 setup so much. We sold our house and are building a new one with a dedicated theater. Having the immersion of 7 ear level instead of the phantom side surrounds will be welcomed and I get to keep the height movement you also discussed. Ealan you are my favorite TH-camr right now. Your content is stellar and accurate. I wish you were around when I first got into this hobby about 4 years ago. Would have saved me some time and money. I agree with everything you say. I can confirm it all myself. Keep making this content my friend.
@@lucasrem the cinema has nothing on my home theater. I will explain further though. My last setup was in an open basement. The speakers were placed perfect but the room was not ideal. However in that space my 5.2.4 sounded 1000 times better than an actual cinema. I’m not the only person that thought that either. Better bass, more clarity, I actually heard surround movement way more clear than I ever heard at the theater. I started going to the cinema only to audition movies for my home theater. I stopped going to the theater all together after a while. (Marvel premieres were the only exception.) If you don’t believe me that’s fine I’d just question your setup. I would say most people would agree though that are into this hobby. I used mind blowing to describe my new theater do to the fact that the room was designed to be a theater from the ground up. Very specific speaker placement, room treatment, more speakers and better AV equipment. It sounded amazing in my last space and there was hardly anybody that I brought over who listened that heard my setup didn’t say the words “this is crazy, I’ve never heard sound like that, this is better than the cinema, I’ve gotta get me something like this” and that was just speakers placed as good as they could in an improper room with mediocre equipment. Maybe I’m crazy but there is a reason why people spend thousands of dollars to bring the cinema in their homes. Go listen to a proper setup and get your mind blown my friend.
@@rayking507 sure. On the 5.2.4 setup I had a Yamaha Aventage rx2080 receiver, outlaw 5000 amp. Emotiva airmotiv speakers for bed layer. 4 Klipsch 5800c 2 in ceiling speakers for Atmos. 2 SVS sb16 ultra subs. I used butt kickers in all 5 leather home theater recliners as well. Biggest impact on the entire setup however was the mini DSP for the subs and proper room treatment. The new setup 7.2.6 I switched to in walls using the focal 300 series for all speakers in bed layer and Atmos. Same subs but will upgrade later depending on the sound of the room or add 2 more of the same. The processor and amps have been upgraded to the Emotiva RMC-1 pre-amp processor and XPA line of amplifiers. However I have my eye on audio control’s processor. This room has been properly treated acoustic wise and the screen went from 98inches to 127” the projector stayed the same and is an Epson 5050ub. Will most likely upgrade to a Sony or JVC though. I’ve added 2 more chairs as well for a total of 7
I agree with you. I have a Denon 4400, and I’ve had a 7.2 set up for a bit. Then just over a year ago got some ceiling speakers to have it as 7.2.2. It was cool to hear things above you, but as others have said … it’s like having surround sound only using 2 speakers at the front. I literally received the Emotiva Basx A3 amp yesterday, and 2 bipolar speakers. I’ll swap out my 2 bookshelf speakers with the bipolar, use them as height channels for the front and move my ceiling speakers as close to the back as possible (as seats are 12’ from back wall). The new amp will power front stage.
My surrounds in 7.1.4 are elevated, no other way to do it in my room. My rear surrounds are directly below but in a couple feet from my rear heights. My front heights are directly above my front L and R. Both front and rear heights are aimed toward the mlp about standing height. You really get that submersive sound all around and above you. Sounds amazing.
Coming from someone with a 5.1.4 setup, go with a 7.1.2 if your room allows it - I wish mine did. Yes, 4 overheads do make a difference... for the 30 seconds of atmos content that most movies have. For the other 99% of content and GAMES, you'll get to actually use your two rear speakers.
Tried the Atmos speakers front-high for a few years. Found that it made the sound stage too front-heavy and made it too difficult to tell what sounds were going above. Then spent a year and a half with the Atmos speakers hanging from upside-down wall-mounted bookshelf arms above the seat, pointing straight down, since I live in an apartment that I can't install ceiling speakers in and the seat was at the wall. However, I realized that having the seat right up against the wall probably wasn't good for reflections. My head is now about fifteen inches from the wall when I sit there and the Atmos speakers were slightly behind my head. Also found that having the two Atmos speakers almost directly above made the sound stage too back-heavy. So, after five or six years with Atmos, I finally removed the Atmos speakers from my system. "Downgraded" from 5.1.2 to 4.1. (No center speaker either because I could never get the speaker high enough beneath the TV and I rarely watch with other people anyway, meaning that not sitting in the center is almost never a problem and the phantom center of two front speakers makes more sense.) Almost all the movies I watch are in two-dimensional surround, mono or matrixed stereo. When I watch older movies with Atmos mixes, I almost always pick the older sound mixes because they're more tastefully done. I can point to several mixes where some of the height effects don't make sense. It's like they place the sounds there just so that listeners are satisfied that all their speakers are used. (Not to mention the LFE being too strong in some of the Atmos remixes.) Atmos and DTS:X make up such a minority of the content I consume. If you can't sit in the center of your listening space, if your seat is right up against the back wall or almost, don't bother with Atmos. The height effects will be largely wasted and sound more gimmicky than they should.
What if you wire 4 height speakers to the 2 available output terminals? Assuming the impedance of the combined speakers is within your receivers limits. I know they would play the same as a .2 but you'll have the option for a future upgrade, in addition to the speakers being at the 30 degree angle you said
Sure, you could, but there wouldn't be any true 3D movement up in the heights, since they are essentially copies of each other. But for a temporary solution in place before a future upgrade, sure! Why not? 😎
Yeah I have my couches up at the back of the living room. It’s a funky living room for a home theatre. On top of it, I choose to go with the builder pre wire and they put 5 surround speaker position pre wire in the curling. At least the two from and two backs are in line. Only thing though is I want Dolby atoms and need to figure out a way to do it with those. And my seats being way at the back where I can’t have anything behind. Oh and on top of that. One side wall is all windows so no speakers can go there in the wall either.
Yeah, we all gotta make do with what we got. My current living room also has a sliding glass door to one side, so that's a no-go for any kind of eventual in-wall or something. Oh well.
If your surrounds are placed correctly in a 5.1 system (slightly behind the listening position, above your head and angled down), I feel like you have to have a large space for the extra atmos speakers to make an impact. I feel like you would have to have at least 12 foot high ceilings in a room around 30 feet across for atmos channels to change the sound as they are intended too.
I slowly migrated from 5.1 to 5.1.2 to 5.2.2 to 7.2.2 & finally to 7.2.4. I was genuinely surprised as I went from 5 to 7 ‘in the plane’ how much the side speakers added… & then from 2 front height adding 2 ceiling overhead (just in front of listening position) Again, difference was significant. Remember to rerun your receiver software to balance speakers. Audigy 4 Marantz & Denon.
@@ealanosborne hmm, considering I built each speaker set… & installed either in ceiling, in wall, & on wall… & since the cost of an AV receiver that decodes MORE channels… not to mention amplification!… expands exponentially… I’m a big nope. I’m done. I might try different L&R for stereo music listening. Most intriguing are the latest Magnipans … that you can’t actually buy. Have a Krell amp for those… I really enjoy pop music mixed in Dolby (Apple Spatial) with my setup it sounds really interesting. Simply a different listening experience to stereo. Stereo is king for most of my library. But, old quadraphonic recordings: The Doors - Riders on the Storm & the entir Pink Floyd - Dar Side of the Moon have been remixed into Dolby & sound stellar. So, the system isn’t just for movies. But, you need physical media for best audio results for video.
I have a 5.1.2 setup, but the atmos channels are at the top front near the 2 mains. I can barely hear them even though I have them turned up really high in the receiver as compared to all other speakers in the system. Only occasionally I hear them throw out distinct surround sound effects. Usually, it's things like birds or wind. Or, sometimes they help fill the room if it's a loud scene. But I believe the placement of those channels is really bad since the only way to really hear them is to put my ear literally 1" away from the speakers. The mains and center channels easily overpower them.
I did 5.1.2 as well. from 5.1 moved paradigm dipole from rear surround, to ceiling, slightly forward of seating area. and added klipch studios, to the rear, increased my sub from 10", to 12" polk. in a small 8x12 space, with 4' walk thru area beside. I am very happy with the sound! I feel so much depends on the space. but really appreciate your videos, to help give me ideas, that will work with what I already have. :)
I'm still in the planning stages for basement theater atmos. But, the layout advice is interesting, Dolby has pretty straight forward recommendations, but there are a lot of differing opinions when it comes to 'real world' install advice. I want to do 9.4.4, but the couch position is 'fixed' and there's HVAC dirctly above and behind the couch position. The other 'problem' is that the ceiling is only 7 feet. This makes having 4 atmos channels difficult. The 2 in front are easy, but the rear heights would be 'too close' to the rear surrounds and be behind HVAC covered ceiling, so the only option would be 1. Only 2 front heights. 2. 'rear' heights directly above the couch. I'm still leaning towards that option but I'm still researching/investigating the best options.
Having two height speakers above your couch and two above your TV is still better than just two heights. It’ll still create the 3D cuboid that Atmos “audio objects” can move freely about in, like the mixing engineers intended. 👍
@@ealanosborne Good to hear! I’ve got the same problem as the couch is against the wall in a 5.1 setup. I want to go with 5.1.4 but would have to do 2 in-ceiling speakers directly above the couch and 2 on-wall heights in the front also. Just don’t know whether it’s worth it in a room that’s not a dedicated home theatre …? 5.1 still sounds amazing on movies that have great sound design (1917/Transformers/Shazam/Tron Legacy) 🔊 🔊
@@ealanosborne My room is: 5.7m long (Sitting at 4.7m from the front) 3.72m wide (Speakers 3.3m L to R) 2.7m high Sealing Wanne go 5.1.4 *1m back / 1.65m to each side / at 2.45m (on the backwall above a window aiming at me) =>H2-L & R [Back height speakers] * 1.7m or 1.6m Front / 1.65m to each side / at 2.6m (10cm of the sealing aiming at me) => H1-L & R * Rest 1.2m high at 5.1 setup (What i use now) Would this be ok?
Thank you for the time you devote to helping us along, I’ve been enjoying your content! I’m new’ish to the more advanced side of home theater setups and in particular, to Atmos…but I’m in the process of buying new hardware and I have some questions which I hope are not too long or cumbersome! 1. 2 CHEAP (old) AVRs vs 1 EXPENSIVE ONE? For the budget-minded, rather than buying one of the newer AVRs that offer all the channel outputs needed to have tons of speakers, could someone use 2 (older and cheaper) machines to power the same number of speakers…and still get proper Atmos configurations? 2. DO OLDER AVRs HAVE PROPER ATMOS OUTPUTS? There are used Denons selling online, like the AVR-3312Ci for around $100. While on the back it has 1 set of “Height” outputs, it doesn’t say Dolby Atmos on the machine. Are all “Height” outputs on older AVRs sending data properly to overhead speakers? The AVR-3312Ci does say Dolby TrueHD, DTS-HD amongst other things, but not Atmos. Does a receiver *have to be* Atmos specific in order to pass the data/sound properly to the speakers that would be setup as ceiling/upwards-facing speakers (not to mention the ground-level speakers that Atmos communicates with)? 3. 2 AVR’s? -or 1 AVR + 1 AMPLIFIER? If the answer to question 1 is that yes, (you can buy a cheaper AVR to receive all the HDMI (and other) inputs from your sources…and if said AVR doesn’t have enough channel outputs to power 5-7 ground-level speakers AND 2-6 ceiling/upwards-facing speakers) …would one be able to use the pre outs to power an additional amplifier? -or would it need to be another AVR, to get the proper Atmos configured output to the speakers? 4. REGARDING THE SPEAKERS. If I put together the right AVR system (whether a single unit, or a combination of 2 or more) to power (up to) 7 ground-level speakers, plus 1 (2, or 3) sub-woofers, plus (up to) 6 ceiling (or upward-facing) speakers, can I mismatch different speakers and brands? For instance, I recently bought a set of Klipsch Reference Theater pack (before I knew about the Reference Cinema pack). If I keep the Theater pack and buy 2 more ground-level speakers…AS WELL as some overhead speakers (whether ceiling-mounted, or other) …could I shop around to add to this array, even if I end up getting cheap ceiling speakers? The ceiling speakers (round ones that install into the ceiling) seem pricey compared to the set 5.1 set I just bought. If I shop around and buy other brand speakers (whether the round ones made specifically for ceiling use or not), would that yield workable results? 5. KLIPSCH UPWARD-FACING vs CEILING SPEAKERS. Which are better? Would the Reference Cinema pack be a better option for having Atmos “ceiling sound” rather than using the Reference Theater pack and adding cheaper ceiling speakers (mounted on the ceilings and pointing down)? Thanks in advance!
Wow! Thanks for the kind words. Truly appreciated. So...here we go: 1) The only AVRs that you could use together would be the kind that have the 7.1 analog audio input section on the rear - which typically is only reserved for the more expensive models. But regarding Atmos with that... 2) Yes, in order to get true Atmos decoding, the AVR itself would need to say "atmos" on it. Atmos isn't just lots of speakers, it's an actual codec that a soundtrack has been mixed in by professional post production facilities. 3) No. An AVR can only process a limited number of channels at once. An AVR with 11 pre outs can only process up to 11 channels of audio. You wouldn't be able to use 9 internal amps AND 11 pre outs to create a monster 20 channel system. 4) You can definitely mix and match different brands of speakers initially, if you want to save money, or find one killer sale on one brand, etc. But the ultimate goal is to have them all the same brand. That way they're "timbre-matched," all having the same sonic characteristics. Although my rule of thumb is definitely go for the same brand for the ear-level speakers first, because Atmos height effects tend to be more atmospheric and subtle, so it's not as obvious when you have a different brand for your Atmos height speakers. 5) I will almost never recommend upward firing speakers, unless it's absolutely necessary in your particular space, or your significant other doesn't approve, or you live in an apartment and can't go drilling holes in the wall or ceiling. Otherwise, either wall-mounted, ceiling-mounted or in-ceiling speakers all day, baby! 😎
@@ealanosborne Thank you so much, perfect reply!--Just the information I was looking for. I have begun my "journey" and look forward to completing it and staying in touch with other like minded people as I progress. Have a great one.
I had sort of determined already, 5.1.4 is the way to go but was wondering what others thought. And just like you said 7.1.4 vs 5.1.6 is the next question.. Although easy decision for me, mid heights not possible in my room.
I think you’re gonna love it. I just got mine. Just a word of advice: run the update! lol it is a bit buggy without it and I’ve heard others say they couldn’t even get through Audyssey. After the update? GREAT AVR. I love it 🙌
I’ve been running 100” 1080p Optoma GT5600 Ultra Short throw projector with a Sony STR-DH790 set up as 5.2.2. I’m very happy with both video display and Dolby Atmos. This is my 4th or 5th build. I have them set up in the following manner…2 Sony SSF7000(4 way towers). Amazon Silver ticket dual 5” Center Chanel. I custom mounted it my center console directly under my UST projector. 2x 8” angled Silver ticket in ceiling speakers at 30 degrees in front from listening position. 2x 8” angled in ceiling speakers slightly behind and to corner area of listening position for my rears. I have my kitchen directly behind living room, so no way to have any rear speakers on the floor or wall behind. I might try some tiny cube speakers for left and right channels in my future 5.2.4 upgrade.
Great video as always. Could you do a video on atmos ceiling speaker placement please? Some people are saying the ceiling speakers shouldn't be inline with the front L/R speakers and that Dolby has it incorrectly on their website. I followed Dolby's guide when I setup my 7.2.2 and now I am in the process of expanding to 7.2.4 and I would like to finalize the location of the ceiling speakers without making whole bunch of holes and patching them. Thanks!
@@tonyoneill7031 I can't seem to find the pdf you are referring to. This is all I have been able to search for www.dolby.com/about/support/guide/speaker-setup-guides/7.1.4-overhead-speaker-setup-guide/
@@jitu757 the link that you have inserted is the home version & is misleading. The Dolby studio version refers to not placing the overheads in line with the main speakers. Watch this video for reference, th-cam.com/video/kGZsrU4oNAM/w-d-xo.html
Really, REALLY useful info. I'm about to install new setup with 4 heights so your video's have been invaluable. Many thanks. You sir, are my kind of nerd! 🙂
Another great video! I just got my x3800h and extra Klipsch R-41SA’s for rear heights! This was an upgrade from a 5.1.2 on a S930h with mirrored subs to, now, a true 5.2.4
Ealan, based on this video,I could use your input and opinion. Currently have 5.1.2 with the heights overhead. Going to expand but my room is open concept and no place for ear level rear surrounds. So only option would be surround rears angled in ceiling. So either I can do 7.1.4 with front elevation, overhead heights, and rear surrounds in ceiling. Or, 5.1.6 with no rear surrounds. If I do a .6 setup then I'm going to go with the x3800h. If I do a 7.1.4 setup then I can get an avr for a few hundred less.
Hmmm…excellent question, my friend. If all Atmos mixes were created equal and filled with incredibly dynamic effects placed in and around and above you all the time, I’d say go with 6 heights. But since Atmos mixes are so commonplace and expected with anything new now, it’s being stretched thin a little as of late. So I would probably go with 7.1.4 with your in-ceiling surround backs. They’ll be active much more than 6 heights. But when really cool Atmos effects DO happen, you still have 4 speakers that those height effects can fly around between. 🤘 My 2 cents. 😁
@@ealanosborne thanks for the input man, I do really appreciate it. One more question - in your travels, have you had any experiences with 4 heights, where 2 are elevation in front and 2 are overhead? It doesn't have to be the absolute best setup, but if possible I would rather not have to move my overheads and start patching. If I can get an improved experience with 2 front heights and 2 overheads, with the 2 rear in ceilings being the rear surrounds, I would love to give it a shot.
@@ealanosborne just thought of one more thing that you may have insight to. With the avr, is it possible to assign the height speakers as front and overhead/middle? Or is there only an option for front and rear? I was just watching another of your videos setting up a Denon AVR, and it looks like it gives you only front and rear heights options.
@@danny51577 I believe it's just front and rear. BUT...technically you could still place speakers in an overhead/middle position. Running room correction software will time align the speakers to your listening position, regardless of where you actually place/mount them.
This is so helpful. I'm moving to a place and I have easy access to the ceiling and trying to figure out what the best setup would be. I'll be visiting to figure out where to put my 4 ceiling speakers.
I know upward-firing Atmos speakers are largely shunned by home theater enthusiasts (though to be fair, the criticism is mostly justified), but IF you have the ideal ceiling height and texture, IF you cannot (or don't want to) install in-ceiling speakers, and IF the speakers are not TOO far away from the main listening position, I have found them to actually work really well and had a significantly better experience with them vs without them. But... BUT... If you do upward-firing you MUST have 4 of them. I can't really explain why, but having the sound come from all directions instead of just localized to the front made a huge difference. I also had to increase the volume by 2 or 3 db on just the upward-firing speakers from whatever Audyssey sets them to during calibration. I have REALLY limited space for my home theater so my setup probably isn't ideal. I had to get really creative and figure out how to get the best sound possible with the smallest footprint possible (because space). So I have 4 powered tower speakers with integrated subs, all connected to LFE, as my front and surrounds. Each tower has an Atmos upward-firing speaker. Then a matching center speaker, of course. So I don't have any separate subs or in-ceiling speakers, but it still sounds amazing. Especially when every speaker is the same, the sound is always perfect whether it comes from the front or the rear, plus there's very even bass distribution. It's not perfect! But it works. 😄
Whoa that’s cool! Thanks for your explanation. As long as it sounds amazing to you, and you’ve done what you can with your unique circumstances, that’s all you need! 😁🙌
Just now starting to formulate a plan for my next upgrade. My room sucks, but gotta work with what I have. Currently 5.x and am going to upgrade to a new avr that can handle 5.x.4 or 7.x.2. I'll probably just take a picture of my room and ask the folks on forums what my best options are...but it appears I've found a new channel to dig into. Thanks!
@Ealan Osborne I purposely stay off the forums until I am ready to finalize...because they are a dangerous place for my wallet. I already am setting a price limit for my 4th sub before I even go in there... Best part about upgrading is using your old stuff in a different room to continue the madness!
My ultimate goal is to have the Trinnov with the expansion for a total of 48 channels. Of course that will only happen after I win the 1.9B Powerball. In the meantime I am very happy with my 7.3.4 setup.
So Ealan, I get that 5.1.4 is prolly the best way to go instead of 7.1.2. 2 questions, first being, I have the Jamo S805 with the bundled Atmos speakers that connect onto the top of my fronts... I also have an extra pair of the S801 speakers that I can put hi up onto the wall behind my listening position. Now having the front Atmos aiming at the ceiling to bounce back down to my listening position, would it be a good idea to connect the extra s801 speakers behind my listening position, or should I just run only 2 Atmos and rather use these bookshelves as surround rears, in a 7.1.2 as opposed to a 5.1.4. Second question is, Would the rear surrounds in a 7.1 benefit me more than having them high up behind the listening position in a 5.1.4
Hmmm…well it also comes down to convenience. If you’re willing to mount things up high instead of just keeping things at ear level, go for it. But also, a combination of upward firing and direct sound coming from height speakers might prove to be a little off. The timing of those two sources won’t be aligned, you know? So maybe in your case it would be more advantageous to go with 7.1.2? 🤷♂️
I'm running 7.1.2. The four surrounds are about 3 feet higher than the listen position with all four angled down. As for the heights, my only option was front heights.
Here’s a test that would be interesting that I’ve not seen anyone comment on. For the bed layer only is 6.1 better or worse than a well setup 5.1 if you’re unable to go to 7.1? The reason I say that is a well setup 5.1 has a nice stereo image on the Side Surrounds, from a 7.1 mix it’s taking stereo rear imaging into those side surrounds as well. On a 6.1 setup the Rear surrounds become mono. So do you gain by having true sound behind you? Or loose on some mixes because you loose some of that nice stereo image in the sides 🤔
I guess it makes sense if you’re listening by yourself. Otherwise, it’s nice to have 7.1 if there are multiple people watching on a couch, so everyone gets decent coverage from behind. But you can also make surround backs as wide or as close to each other as you want. If your surround backs are right next to each other directly behind you, is it still 7.1 or technically 6.1? 🤔😄
@@ealanosborne I keep meaning to try it and find a decent few sample tracks. My Left SS and Right SS give me lovely stereo imaging now but are slightly ahead of my MLP (due to a door to the left of my MLP). I can probably get a widely dispersed Rear channel in there (my Denon supports that config) but due to layout challenges 2 wouldn’t fit or would be a waste as they would be very close. My setup is mainly configured for the MLP and a 2nd seat just next to it (but mainly MLP 😏) I’ve tried watching the Dolby Optimiser videos Shane Lee does sometimes to see if there’s much stereo action in the Rear channels I’d be loosing if mixing that to mono (but keeping Sides to stereo 🤔)
5.1.6 is my intended setup, except instead of top rears I would add rear heights. I'm adding a second row of seating and so ear level rears aren't the best idea. Rear heights will give me a bit of both worlds back there. So top fronts and middles, side surrounds, rear heights.
Surrounds and rear surrounds shouldn't be at ear level. Try 1-2' (30-60cm) above ear level and angle them towards listening position. Clearer sound for all listeners and it sounds more realistic especially for 5.1 content.
Too much going on in the rear imo. You do not have the same audio imaging behind you as you do in front of you. Rears mounted ear level is all you need. The channels in front and to the side of you should be seperated between ear level and heights begining with the front stage most important
Isn't it the case that most receivers that can process 9 channels can also process 11 channels, even if they can't power all 11? Considering that you can get a stereo amp for very little, I would say just go for 7.x.4!
Not all 9 channel receivers can process 11 channels. Like the Onkyo TX-NR7100. It does even have pre-outs to hook an external amp. There are other vendors as well that have only 9 channels. When I went looking for a affordable setup that did 11 I found several that were 9 only, even some very expensive ones. I'd say it's about 50/50 between ons that do just 9 to ones that process 11.
Correct, most can process a total of 11 channels. But a lot of consumers won’t be able to immediately go to a 7.x.4 setup since going from a 7 channel to 9 channel AVR is a huge price jump. So in the meantime where they are forced to utilize the internal amps, I recommend 5.x.4. 😁🤘
@@Cyclone311 Yes, the Onkyo/Pioneer/Integra trio does have a 9-channel-processing AVR, but the price is much closer to those 11-channel ones than the 7-channel ones. I think the RZ-50 and LX505 are better values than the NR7100 and LX305 for the additional $300.
@@ealanosborne Isn't 5.x.4 9 channels already? Or do you mean that since those consumers already spent a fortune on those 9- or 11-channel-processing receivers, they might need to hold back on the additional speakers?
Thanks so much for the tutorials/reviews. Great info before making a large purchase! I just got a Marantz Cinema 40 and run 2 Polk in-walls L/R, Martin Logan Motion 8 Center, and 2 Polk in walls for surround. I also have 4 JBL 6” ceiling speakers behind the listening position. Also running 2 MTX SW12 subwoofers.(will be upgrading to 4 subs in the near future). Per your advice, I tried the 5.2.4 and the 7.2.2 with additional height channel. I found the 7.2.2 sounds the best with the surround back as 1 set of ceilings right behind the listening position and the heights 6’ behind them. Somehow the 7.2.2 “blends” the effects better than the 5.2.4. Overall, very impressive sound coming out of that Marantz! Again, thanks for the info.
I have a 5.1.4 setup but my living room is an open concept to the dining room and hardwood floors about. So, no ideal at all. We do have a large area rug in the living room area but that’s about it. I recently took my front Atmos upfiring speakers down of the ceiling and put them on the front left and rights. Anyway, the point is though it’s not ideal, everything does sound really good. My goal is to move to a house where I can situate everything a lot better.
Yeah, my new construction home (hopefully done in Nov) is the same. I’ll be able to have maybe a 3.2.2 setup, or maybe 5.2.2 with the surrounds actually in the ceiling behind the couch? Still contemplating how I’ll handle that situation. But at least I have my shed theater for a true theater experience. 😄 The Home Theater Bug is real!
@@ealanosborne Hey I hope it works out for you. We’re hoping to move before next Winter but we’ll have to see. Like you, my wife isn’t actually all that caring about my quest for a home theater setup! I’m definitely going to keep the 5.1.4 setup and might do a front and rear wall heights in the future sometime. Actually, I still have my other Atmos speakers mounted on the ceiling slightly behind the listening position so I have that hybrid setup Dolby specified. It actually works pretty well but I think Atmos would work a lot better with both heights being on the wall like you said in your video comparison.
The thing I respect about you is that you take the time to try things out so you can speak from experience. I know it takes way longer than it seems on a video. I have 7 ear-level and 4 heights for Auro3D, VOG channel, and center height. When I moved from 5 to 7 ear-level speakers, I noticed the difference, but I wonder if it's not just because I had more space behind me by not having to put my seats up against the wall. I sometimes switch my rear surrounds on/off and I can tell the difference, but it's not huge imo. Properly placed side surrounds (slightly behind and to the side) can sound very convincing. 4 heights definitely has more movement....WHEN there's content up there. The other reason to go 5.1.4 is if your AVR has Auro3D, you can upmix lacking content. You need 4 heights for that. That's why I prefer on-wall to on-ceiling.
I did go for the 7.1.2 but my 2 heights speakers are in front of me on the wall pointing directly at me @30-45degrees... I'm not expanding to 7.1.4 because there is very little height info in all the movies and I have it mainly for the music.
Mines in my living room , I started with speakers on the ceiling high up on walls, I've now got atmos floorstanders( klipsch ) and it sounds better to me
Great video! I have a simple 5.1 surround system setup today and wishing an upgrade soon. First and foremost I need an Atmos/DTS-X capable AVR as well (existing one is outdated). I think it will look like a journey from current status towards IMAX step by step :) next step can be 5.1.2, then 5.1.4 and maybe 7.x.4 at a later stage in time. I am pretty sure/convinced that each configuration will act as a right step forward and make sense. Thanks for the clear explanations Ealan.
Nice one Elan 👍 Hey I know it's something that probably doesn't affect you greatly but I was wondering if you could at some point cover how to do atmos for home theatres with 2 rows of seating. I'm pretty sure I have it pegged but need to be certain before making my atmos installation vid for my channel. For example when you have a 5.2.4 and a 7.2.4 setup with one row seating all 4 atmos are angle to that one row. But with say a 9.2.4 setup I'm assuming that we only have 2 speakers shooting at both the rows? But it just doesn't make sense when thinking about the surround signals. Wouldn't a 9.2.4 setup with 2 rows need different atmos signaling compared to say a 7.2.4 etc? Anyway it's just something that's suddenly popped up on my radar that I've been thinking about. Cheers man 😎
Well, that’s why with Audyssey and Dirac Live (and most room correction software) you typically position the calibration mic in several different positions to get the best audio no matter where you sit. So yeah, with two rows of seats, I would definitely make sure to move that calibration mic to as many different spots as possible. Beyond that, there are processors out there that can be assigned to duplicate surround signals - like if you have 2 or even 3 rows of seats - so each row gets a direct surround signal. So the configuration might only be 9.2.4, but you have 11 ear-level speakers, since the surrounds are duplicated to the sides of each row of seats. But only the real expensive processors can do that properly, like Trinnov. But most people won’t have the luxury of 2 or 3 rows of seats. 😁
I have a 5.1 setup. My avr only has room for 1 more pair of speakers. Not sure if i should get some book shelves for 7.1 or atmos for 5.1.2. But this has given me much to think about
@ealanosborne --- How many speakers is the max for current movies and shows? How many channels are they making these movies in? Also, what's the max amount of subwofers a setup should have?
For the longest time, studios would mix Atmos in 7.1.4, but there are a lot more titles that are being mixed in larger configurations. That being said, Atmos at its core should conform to however many speakers you have, technically up to 24 ear level, 10 height and 1 subwoofer channel. And having at least 2 subwoofers is usually ideal, since it helps get bass frequencies more evenly output around your furniture, etc.
Öhhh Elan, if your couch is on the wall, how you can go with a 5.1.4? The 4 hight channels should in front and behind you - not possible with a wall on your backhead 😬 or I miss something? Btw can’t wait to see the collab with Brad 😃
That’s the only scenario where you would just need to mount two height speakers above you and two in front of you. Not the most ideal situation, but better than just two height speakers.
One of these days, I might be able to afford to upgrade to Atmos. I am still stuck with 5.1 (actually 5.0 since my custom subs got damaged). I have old Klipsch KLF-30s for fronts AND surrounds and they provide so much bass, that subwoofers are not needed.
I like DTSx better it does have a higher bit rate and it sounds awesome....but I always try to map near the source material if it's atmos I use atmos if it's DTS I play through DTS...but the issue is not all Atmos tracks have content
I would love to do a 7.1.4 buuuut space is limited. Seats are against the back wall of the room so no rear surrounds for me. Still need the over head atmos installed then I will have my 5.1.4! Also, your videos are super helpful and entertaining to watch. That's an impressive combo. Sometimes reminds me of my youth watching Bill Nye the science guy. Shout out from Alaska!
For me, it's senseless. I get the slight improvement in a couple of scenes but it's not worth the increased likelihood of electronic failure for those channels or the sound reduction of the LCR for those channels. Any improvement that comes at the expense of the LCR is not worth it. Now if your LCR is maxed out and you're rocking Perlisten S's as your LCR, then yeah get' em height channels since your Trinnov can probably run them. That doesn't mean I don't appreciate the video or your review as they were great!
@ 2:10 i just tested it on my pc. using "English TrueHD Atmos 7.1 (GER UHD Blu-ray)" decoded by my Strix Sound Card, output via Creative GigaWorks S750. no problem to hear the planes humming over me, without any heights speaker
I heard a few people say that 7.1.2 was better for gaming. I game but my small room can only support 5.1.4 with upfiring hight speakers. I cant mount anything to my appartments ceiling.
Hmmm…I think that might be true, since gaming audio engines work differently, so it would be advantageous to have actual speakers behind you to create a more realistic surround sound experience. 🤘
Hmm, given the layout of my room (a long open plan kitchen /living room) I'm not able to get a 5.1.4 layout as described here. There being no place to wall mount rear height speakers due to kitchen cabinets, wall mounted boiler, alcoves, doorway, windows etc. So a 5.1.4 for me would be front and middle heights only. Given that I can get floor mounted rear surrounds and wall mounted side surrounds positioned, a 7.1.2 layout would have those plus two front heights. So, in my specific case, which of the two would be better, as your recommendation specifically relies on those rear mounted heights. Ceiling mounted speakers are not an option.
7.1.2 was a close second for sure, so there’s no shame in going that route. I have an even less ideal living room with it nearly impossible to have any surrounds or surround backs on the floor, so I’m thinking of having a good ol-fashioned 5.1 system with a passive soundbar underneath the TV and rear surrounds in the form of in-ceiling speakers. Atmos is cool, but it’s not the “end all, be all” for me. As long as it sounds good to you, you’re golden. 🙌
Kind of. I’ll be doing more tests with that soon. It should matrix properly with 6 height channels, but not all mixes do it the right way. Stay tuned! 😁🤘
Love your content and I have a challenge for you . Make a video of horrible room setups but make them work. You know, 3 person couch offset from the tv, wife that just has to put things in the living room, said women that moves back surrounds that are on stands, things like that..... Just asking for a friend.
Thanks for this. I'm wanting to setup a full home theater and your videos are super helpful. I'd love to hear your thoughts on the Sony STR-DH790 (since that's the one I'm looking at). I'm torn between a 5.1.2 and a 7.1 setup. Anyways, thanks for the info.
The str-dh790 is what I recommend to a lot of people (and in my past videos) for one of the least expensive ways to get into Atmos. Although with that being said, if you plan on eventually having 4 height speakers (and upgrading to a 9 channel receiver), I’d maybe stick with 7.1 for awhile. On the contrary, though, if you want to experience a 5.1.2 setup, I’ve done well using heavy duty Velcro from a hardware store to mount height speakers without creating any holes to patch up later. So there’s that 😄🤘
I have a 7.1.6 in my set up. I'm using the Center Front Height and the Top Surround (AKA) Voice of God. It's sounds amazing upmixing movies to Auro3D or Neural X
I have a 4.0 System. 2 x KEF Q750 front and 2 x KEF Q150 back. I dont want a Center because iam sitting pretty much in the Sweet Spot. I love how it sounds. Movies sounds better than the 7.1.2 system from my neighbor. :-). sometimes i have to choose in movies 5.1 , dolby atmos, which is better for my 4.0 system ? or it doesnt matter ?
I’ve seemed to notice that bass response is better with Atmos, and it tends to be a little louder just on its own. Not sure why that is, but I like it better than listening to the same thing in 5.1. If you have the option, might as well try both and see what sounds better with 4.0. 👍
Hey Ealan, how do you think it would sound with two front heights and two rears up on the side walls angled down, do you think the since of movement would be the same as having rear heights? I love your channel and thanks for all the knowledgeable information your share with us!
Alas I have no choice. My avr is only 7 channels. I have 2 subwoofer outs but they aren't indepedant of each other. To be fair I'm on a tight budget, and I just started getting back into thehome theater game again. I want the new denon avr-a1h for 9.4.6 at 150 watts/channel what a beast!
Great video! Just upgraded to an Onkyo 7100 and would like to add two speakers for 5.1.4… BUT, I have a dilemma: My four surrounds in my current 7.1 setup are ALL at ceiling height; what’s more, is that my surround backs are on the same side wall as my side surrounds…. So do I add two front heights at ceiling height (and all of my speakers will be ceiling height), or do I use my four current ceiling speakers as my Atmos layer and add two new side surrounds at ear-level? 😬
Ealan, I'm one of the ones whose back seating is about 6 inches from the back wall , I have no choice but to locate my rear surrounds on the side wall to the left and right. I'm going with in wall speakers. To help save as much space in my tiny room of 12.5 x 12.5 x 9. I want to do a 5.2.4 setup. Where abouts would you locate the 4 channel atmos speakers in ceiling?
Rear heights I’d put pretty much as far back as they can go (so basically above the couch) and front heights somewhere in the middle between the couch and the TV, but probably leaning more closely to the TV. Not the most ideal, but it’ll still provide enough space for great movement of height effects when they happen. 👍
My room is similar dimension, 13×12×9. I thought I couldn't do 4 atmos, but surprisingly it worked. I used audio advice planning tool to draw it up. Turned out great. My recliner is about 86 inches from the screen, so that gave me a few feet behind seat and rear wall.
I have an unusual set up because of my room. I have no side walls so I have six ceiling speakers. The configuration is 7.2.2. My ceiling is 12 feet high. I have two ceiling speakers that are designated height about 3 feet from front wall, and in the back of ceiling I have two set for surround and two closest to rear wall set as backs. I mostly steam and it very immersive. I would like to try the 5.2.4 to see if I can have better Atmos without degrading the immersion of shows that are not Atmos. Which speakers in the back need to be set as height and which surround. I’m guessing the speakers that are forward which line up with front heights should be height, and the two closest to back wall designated surround. Is this correct? Than you and the video was excellent and has convinced me to try 5.1.4 .
Correct. I would designate your front 4 in-ceiling speakers as front and rear height speakers. Then the 2 closest to the back wall set as surrounds. Try that out. Very interesting setup indeed! Very cool! :)
@@ealanosborne thanks Ealan for the confirmation of the speaker set up. My dealer recommends that I keep it at his 7.2.2 configuration as he says it will give me the best all around sound. He said 5.1.4 would make Atmos better but for everything else I would be losing sound content and it won’t be as immersive. Does he have a point? Thanks
Are there any AV receivers that would give me the option of using wireless connection for the upward firing speakers? what is your opinion of when the lowest prices would appear on that equipment? Black Friday, cyber Monday? Or have things dropped in price now due to inventory overruns?
What's the point? If they're wireless, it means they need to receive power, so you still need wires - but thicker ones (for high voltage insulation, and surround speakers really don't need much power - perfectly fine to use a thinner wire).
I got 5.1 with phantom centre, not much room under the computer screen and I am in the ideal place always, just the 1 guy. Now to see if I want those height channels.
The back row is against the back wall but that's the overflow seats so I do plan to do something for rear speakers as they will work fine for the middle and front rows. Because I have three rows maybe I should consider 7.1.6 for Atmos but again, the back row is overflow so maybe I'll stay with 7.1.4.
@@ealanosborne Yeah I think you're right, if I put heights in for the back row, they are probably going to be too close to the rear speakers. Maybe the optimum would be to put the front heights just a foot or so in front of the front row and the back heights a foot or so behind the middle row. The rear speakers are pretty much going to be almost directly overhead over the back row, maybe just slightly behind as I have room on the riser to pull the back row six or eight inches out. So there is really no good place to put a third pair of heights. This is my 2nd dedicated theater in my 2nd, "forever house", knowing me I'll end up building a 3rd, "forever house" and if so I'll make the room deep enough to have three rows with at least five or six feet between the back row and the back wall.
Currently I have only a 5.1 set up Denon X3800 and planning to go with Auro 3D height configuration. I'm also a 2 channel listeners and have my Front L/R are 2.5 feet 30 inches out from front wall.....and wondering how it would sound with 2 heights mounted on wall. I'm concerned that having height speakers 30inches behind mains may not sound good ? Auro 3D says is not advisable to have top front hieghts further out in front of the bed level speakers....they should simply be mounted high up on the wall aimed at you at between 30 to 35 degrees ear level....sounds very simple. what if heights are behind ? can't find any info or discussion on these placement scenarios.
Your height speakers will almost always be placed behind your front speakers (like mine are), since front speakers will almost always be away from the wall a bit. As long as you run room correction software or dial in the distances correctly, it should be fine, since the software will take all the measurements into account. I don't feel like my soundstage gas suffered at all because my heights are not vertically in line with my ear-level speakers. 👍
Hello, what do you think about the Bose B1 Bass Module Subwoofer? Does it work for home use on Dolby Atmos receiver, especially for action movies, as it is an old model? Can it give me a great performance?
I’m not too familiar with the B1, but from what I’m reading online about it, I think it’s made to only work with the Bose L1 Passive PA systems, so it’s not like a standard subwoofer. 🤷♂️
Figuration I'm looking for is having like in the front like about six seats in the front and you step up and have like about six in the back and then you have a little space behind it to put your back speakers and your height speakers I was going to have some side speakers so I can hit the level for the ones on the second year what do you think would be the best consideration gun I'm putting it in my basement and my basement totally gutted
Yeah, you might want 6 height speakers in total with 2 big rows of seating like that. Although it’s only worth it if the height speakers are more than about 6 feet apart. If your space only allows for heights to be less than 6 feet apart, it’s not really worth it, since they’ll bleed into each other. Just stick with 4 height channels if that’s the case. 👍
I live in and have a family room that is 18x15 feet with an 8 foot flat ceiling so owning a 5.1.2 Channel Dolby Atmos Home Theater Set-Up Paired with a 7-Channel Premium Home Theater Dolby Atmos Surround Audio-Video Receiver would be very perfect for our family room and it sounds very bass/treble/midrange-heavy immersive awesome room-filling dynamic cinematic realistic fully-detailed crystal-clear punchy rich sharp lifelike impactful and stunning and not only I don’t need another subwoofer since I own a 12-inch subwoofer and the those two Bipole Surround Loudspeakers & two Upward-Firing Height Elevation Loudspeakers all have a 5-1/4 inch woofers and 1 inch tweeters and two of the Floorstanding tower loudspeakers have a 6-1/2 inch woofer a 1 inch tweeter and there is a ton of and lots of great powerful dynamic room-filling punchy immersive impactful midrange bass. I do not need a 9-channel Dolby Atmos Receiver or either two more upward-firing height elevation Dolby Atmos Loudspeakers or two more surround loudspeakers a 5.1.2 channel Dolby Atmos Home Theater Set-up paired with a 7-channel Dolby Atmos Receiver would only work in small to medium sized rooms like mine and a 5.1.4 or 5.2.4 channel Dolby Atmos Home theater set up would only work in medium to large rooms or if a 9 channel Dolby Atmos receiver has multiple speaker pre-outs then you can add an amplifier to add two more surround speakers only in large rooms
My room is: 5.7m long (Sitting at 4.7m from the front) 3.72m wide (Speakers 3.3m L to R) 2.7m high Sealing Wanne go 5.1.4 *1m back / 1.65m to each side / at 2.45m (on the backwall above a window aiming at me) =>H2-L & R [Back height speakers] * 1.7m or 1.6m Front / 1.65m to each side / at 2.6m (10cm of the sealing aiming at me) => H1-L & R * Rest 1.2m high at 5.1 setup (What i use now) Would this be ok?
My concern about future-proofing my ATMOS setup is how well the current x.x.4 or x.x.6 receivers will translate the Atmos audio mix track of the future(as you discussed in your "Dolby...Please" video. i.e. Should we be concerned about the changes in the algorithms for decoding the discrete metadata sent to the height channels which may require another receiver purchase?🤔
@@ealanosborne Yeah. Thats the dicey part about going too far with the future proofing. I was just looking over a spec sheet on a "THX" certified 7.1 Denon receiver that I purchased 10 years ago that was supposed to be "future-proof". The only sound field that it has that would be relevant today was DTS. Denon never firmware upgraded that unit. Im glad I ebay-ed it while it had some value. Even though manufacturers may make statements about future-proofing their products, they're still at the mercy of Dolby/DTS's proprietary firmware algorithms changing in a way that may not be supportable by the current receiver hardware. We see it with PC technology all the time. And as you've covered in your videos, the industry is way behind maintaining standards for content streaming beyond the current 5.1.2. So why upgrade for greater speaker ratios only to be given fancy emulations like AURA3D. Until Dolby/DTS get their standards in order for delivering consistent Atmos streaming content, Im laying low with my (9.2) 5.1.4. Thanks for your response. Great content.
why place height speakers inline with mains? Panning will travel from side surounds to heights not mains . Shouldnt they be placed in relation to side surrounds? Maybe within 60 deg or as close as possible to 60deg?
Since I just got a Denon x4700h last month my budget won't yet allow me to get any more speakers beyond my 10-15--year-old 5.1 setup. Since my chair is against the back wall in my bedroom and I can't poke holes in my ceiling, I'm thinking I might need to go with some up-firing speakers in the front when I start to replace my current satellite system (start out with LCR rather than buying everything at once unless I can find something reasonable). Thinking about something like Klipsch, but I haven't been to and demo rooms yet. There's a best Buy Magnolia store about 1/2 hour away, though when my bank account recovers.
Thanks for the vids. I have a 5.1 speaker setup but my AVR is old so I'm about to upgrade it to something that supports Atmos. I've been researching the best options for my scenario, and have watched your vid on Atmos speaker placement, but I'm in the unfortunate situation of my couch being against the back wall (so my surrounds are just slightly behind me). Could you consider a vid on Atmos speaker placement for people whose couch is against the back wall? That is, is there any point to a 5.1.4 setup, given that the Atmos speakers can only be directly above (near the back wall) and/or in front of me? Or should I just go for a 5.1.2 setup with the Atmos speakers directly above the couch near the back wall?
The best Atmos experience is when you create a cube of audio. And I know having your couch against the wall doesn’t allow you to be in the middle of the cube, BUT…that’s still going to be superior to having only 2 height channels. If you have 2 mounted straight above your couch, and two mounted above the TV next to the ceiling, that still allows for audio objects to move freely back and forth within that cube, as the mixing engineers intended. 🤘
@@ealanosborne thanks for your thoughts on that. For a 5.1.4 setup I'm considering the Onkyo TX-NR7100, which, in Australia, costs around $1,700. I know it can't be expanded but I don't see myself needing anything more than 5.1.4 any time soon. Unless there's a different entry level 9.2 AVR you would recommend instead? Cheers.
The placement of the ceiling Atmos speakers is incorrect on what they have online. The Dolby Atmos Technical Guidelines are much better at showing the angles. It depends on your ceiling height and are not in line with the front speakers.
I would say so, yeah! My testing theater can sometimes feel a bit cramped, and it’s 11 x 16, so those two extra feet on the side and 9 extra feet in length would make a big difference in my book! 🤘
@@ealanosborne I am trying to decide which sub to buy. Sonos sub Gen 3 or the sub mini. I’m not sure which one to buy compared to the size of my room. What do you think?
@@mdwitt714 Sonos Sub Gen 3, for sure. The thing about good low frequencies is that they should ultimately pressurize the room completely. A room that length might even need two Sonos Subs - but that’s expensive! 😬
Ealan you kind of touch on this is several video’s but still a little unclear. I have to have my sofa against the wall but want to do the best I can with a 5.1.2 or 5.1.4 set up. For Wife approval we are going with in ceiling for rears and atmos speakers. In doing so would you recommend the rear in ceiling speakers go as close to the wall as possible? Then with the rears in place what would be the general rule for .2 and .4 atmos speaker placement in relation? Thanks for any info you can provide and keep up the great work!
I’d put the in-ceiling speakers straight above you. That’ll be the most versatile, whether you start with .2 or move on to .4 eventually. If and when you do .4, just add front heights above the TV! 🙌
@@ealanosborne Thanks for the fast reply. To clarify, place the rear surrounds in ceilings close to the wall then the .2 above the seating position? Is there a distance between the two I need to take into consideration? Then if expand to .4 just add above the TV?
I currently have a 5.1 and plan to upgrade to 5.1.4. This is my issue I have my front surrounds in the right and left corners of the 8 foot high ceiling, and my rears are on the back corner wall slightly behind the primary listening area. I was planning to mount 2 speakers to the left and right of the TV closer to ear level and switch them to my fronts, add height speakers half way between the fronts and backs, and use the original ceiling high fronts as my second set of height speakers. What do you think.
If I’m understanding your layout correctly, it sounds like you’re planning on doing what I did in my previous home: There were 4 in-ceiling speakers and one center speaker already installed as part of a 5.1 system. Then once I got more speakers and a 9 channel AVR, the in-ceilings became the height speakers and I mounted 4 other speakers closer to ear level. Do what you can with what you have, am I right? 😄
@@ealanosborne You are correct except my four speakers are mounted high in each corner of the room not in the ceiling. My rear speakers are on the wall slightly behind the main seating area. I brought 2 pairs of the Klipsch reference speakers, they have the upward firing height speakers built in. Now I admit they do sound good, but the upward firing thing does not work for me, I need something more dynamic which is what I am hoping to get when I add my two or four mid height speakers. But first I need to pull some speaker wire through the walls. Wish me luck.
@@ealanosborne In the last 3 months I have upgraded my receiver to the Onkyo rz50 and added 4 speakers to upgrade my system to 5.2.4. 6 of my speakers are ceiling height (7ft.) with one in each corner and 2 speakers located between them, with the exception my fronts that are ear level. So basically 6 up top and 3 in front of me In the back of the Onkyo it has Height 1, Surround, and Surround back. How should I set these up for the best Dolby Atmos sound effects.
I'm in a tiny space, 10x12, couch on the wall. I've temporaraly put some above in the back l/r area. If they are not pointed down you basically don't hear them. I have an old receiver at the moment. One though is near field speakers in the wall right behind you, turn them way down but be balanced. Or tuned for that spot. Just a thought. it could be a wow or frown, not sure. Maybe a mock up to test it is needed. What are you thought on in wall speakers that close? Does it even make sense or will be be distracting. I think if it's tuned or attenuated properly it could work. I know many systems are setup for a few different listeners in slightly different spots. Then again if it's not the sweet spot then it doesn't matter. When friends come over, i push them over ;) i mean they always get the spot
I will probably be building a 7.2.4 HT setup in next few months, I already have a SONY HT in box 5.1 setup. Can I use 4 speakers from this config as ceiling speakers,? (they all have same imepdance/watt ratings) I will be spending money mainly on Front Speakers and a decent AMP + Pre amp, don't want to put money in Ceiling speakers if I can use existing 4 from my old setup. Let me know if this makes a difference.
Yeah, speakers are speakers (as long as they’re passive, and not powered). I’ve known some people who get the Klipsch 5.1 Theater Pack (since it’s so cheap) and use the 4 satellite speakers for height channels. Your Sony setup sounds like the same idea. 👍
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My opinion is: following Dolby positioning is most important for immersive experience. Therefore whatever room can accommodate. Couch close to back wall - go with 5.1.4. You have more space in the back go with 7.1.2. That is if you’re limited to 9.1. In terms of making holes if you do go with 7.1.2 and think you might expand in the future don’t buy ceiling speakers, buy on walls they will work brilliant and you will deal with two small holes later which any self respecting man should be able to deal with.
Just set up 5.1.2 after watching your previous video on the height channels. I put the inceiling speakers a foot in front of the listening position and aimed the tweeters towards the seats. Sounds incredible. It expanded the sound stage so much.
Hey that’s great! Congrats! 🎊😄
Hey Ruch, which .2 speakers did you go with? I want to expand Mt 5.1 setup as well.
One ft in front of the listener?
The problem,if you don’t have a designated theater room, your living room becomes your TV center. If you add ceiling speakers your living room furniture is basically locked in. No more moving your furniture around for a change and variety.
TH-cam source in ATMOS ??
are you mad ?? Why you need TV ??
plus your sofa is often against the wall so forget a .4 or .6 setup. There simply is no "behind you". Only a pair of top middle is the way to go then.
Indeed, even for those of us with the luxury of several rooms theoretically large enough to accommodate the placement of a 7 channel ear level bed layer and as many channels of ceiling mounted effects as will be the current vogue, the realities of traffic patterns, staircases, corner located doors, picture windows, etc all too often constrain our ability to do so without very extensive and expensive structural renovations. Hence, I think we’ll see an ever increasing popularity of higher end multichannel active systems such as the new Nak Dragon, B&O Stage, etc.
@@fonkenful i think that the creation of "phantom channels" will be much better in the future. The modulation of a speaker that is really behind you, even if your couch is against the wall. Something they kind of do with dolby atmos for headphones and htrf profiles. Iam with you, 90% of us do not have a 100% perfect layout. In a livingroom not possible. Currently i use 2 Dipols as surr back an another direct speaker right behind me that gets the SUM of both Dipols and is of course a litte bit quieter. It works now, kind of
Add a painting
This is a great video.
I have a 5.1.4, but I was always unsure about how effective side surrounds were at imaging rear sound effects. But I had an epiphany: when playing video games that support surround sound, you can really test out the rear speaker location imaging. I was rotating my camera view while playing God of War just to test surround sound, and what I discovered is that 5 bed layer speaker imaging REALLY makes you feel like voices and sound effect travel around and behind you, giving you that immersion and sense of direction. Its the same with Horizon Forbidden West. Sounds behind the player view literally feel like they are behind your ears.
I attribute this discovery to my being able to control the direction of the sound in a video game. You dont have the same control of direction of sound in a movie. With movies, I've always just kind of accepted and perceived the noise how it was mixed and configured in my space. But i was always unsure of my rear imaging, and I've read that many 7.1 movies dont even really use the rear channels much.
But to summarize, video games are a great way to test and prove that the rear imaging from a 5.1 system works. I considered adding rears, but I think I'm just fine. I agree, 4 heights give a sense of direction above with height effects.
Most definitely. Crazy how gaming engines work that way. So immersive! 🤘
Thank you for sharing your experience! So the immersion is 100% there with just 2 surround speakers, but what about being able to locate the source of sound? Was it travelling more or less smoothly around you?
With a Trinnov you’ll get much better surround imaging in movies. The other stuff is not really surround.
@@Fluterra with a Trinnov I can buy a bigger house for the cost of the processor, and get better surround by spacing the speakers further apart.
@@VioletGiraffe That still won’t correct for phase, position, and timing. Where can you buy a house for $20k? I’ll buy a few…
If you factor the cost of all the upgrades you’ll be making to AVRs vs just getting a Trinnov and be done with it, then you probably could buy a house with the money you save!
In my personal opinion, Dolby Atmos is just not worth it if you only have two speakers because you only get half the experience: up and down but not forwards and backwards. I started out with 5.1.2 and I have no regrets upgrading to 5.1.4 instead of 7.1.2. I personally get a more immersive experience being in a full dome (or bubble) of sound rather than just a sound fence. A 5.1.4 setup has always felt complete to me, whereas a 7.1.2 feels incomplete. I don't feel like I'm missing out at all by not having rear channels. I would say if you're going to do Dolby Atmos, it's a better investment to get 4 channels. Otherwise, just save your money and stick to 5.1 or 7.1.
I think you are right. I bought an atmos 7.1 and tried 5.1.2 and 7.1. 7.1 gave better immersion for movies. The 5.1.2 is good for gaming, but when you turn the camera the sound is not smooth, you hear it cut out to pass from the suround speakers to the ceiling. I ordered a 9.1 receiver and I'm going to go on a 5.1.4, I'm sure it will be much smoother and immersive.
Hi Maya . So how do you position your 4 height speakers relative to your listening area ?
The correct answer is 7.2.4, of course! 🙂 The best of both worlds. My setup is 6 bipolar surround speakers for the front, side and back speakers , 2 serial connected center speakers, 2 subwoofers in opposite corners, and 4 height speakers mounted at the top of the side walls.
But yes, if you must choose between 7.1.2 and 5.1.4, do the 5.1.4 setup and go for the maximum amount of height speakers.
I have never heard of someone rocking so many bipolar speakers. I can't imagine that's ideal for front stage imaging, but I've obviously never heard that type of setup. What made you go that direction?
@@Goose_Lord It is in fact precisely for the front stage imaging I made this choice. It allows the front soundstage to envelop the front and front sides of the room better than direct radiating speakers. They essentially act as front and front wide speakers at the same time.
@@bronstet I'd love to A/B test something like that, but I'm guessing that's what you did already to come to that conclusion. I always heard bipoles are a great solution for those who can't have both rear and side surrounds, but this is the first time I've heard of using them for front mains and front wides. Great idea!
@@Goose_Lord Exactly, Jord. When doing the research to put my sound system together, I found out about bipolar speakers and their purpose of acting as combined surrounds/rears and then figured they could serve the same purpose in front. So I went with it and am very happy that I did.
@@bronstet That's what this hobby is all about - awesome!!
In my case, I prefer 7.1.2. I have tried both setups in my space. There is not a lot of good Atmos content and I love my surround backs for most content. In my opinion, most movies have more sound coming from my surround backs than my Atmos speakers. Other rooms might be different. I like your videos!
Totally understandable! 🤘
I am in the same boat. I have 7.2.2 and the reality is movies utilize surrounds and surround backs way more than atmos overhead. That is why I didnt go with 7.2.4. I am sure I will get there eventually. I have in ceiling with tweeters that can be aimed, so I just put the atmos in the correct placement for 4 atmos and pointed the tweeters and everything so far sounds fantastic.
Agreed. Right now 95+% of streaming content is from 5.1.0 masters or worse; it doesn't even have height channel data. Deriving the rear channel to get 7.1.X is mathematically relatively straightforward, but there is no formula for deriving height from 5.1. Remember "simulated stereo" before TV stations broadcast stereo? They would do some totally crude processing like sending certain frequencies to the left and others to the right. It would end up sounding much worse than if you just had a single center speaker. Same thing for height channels today; the receiver has to use "simulated height" algorithms like dolby surround to make guesses about what should go up there, but because there is no height metadata, the guesses are really bad, similar to "simulated stereo".
Sure, on the best Atmos mixes maybe there is an argument for 5.1.4. But for most content, 7.1.2 is going to sound much more like it sounded on the mixing stage.
Exactly, even though Ealen does a great analysis and arrives at a solid conclusion from a speaker configuration and future expansion pov, it completely forgoes a significant angle which is the available content sound format, whether it’s physical media or streaming.
But isn't most current content at 5.1 especially streaming content, even with upmixing to 7.1, the source will be 5.1 that why its best to go 5.1.4 no brainer imho... It is true that more sound will come out of the rear surrounds but I believe a perfectly placed 5.1 rear surrounds at 110-120 degrees with bright speakers like svs surround elevation will be the best bet, easily attainable by moving could 2-3 feet from the wall, can even use L-bracket to provide the 90 degree mounting point. If its a dedicated theater room for audiophile then 7.1.4 will be king but if you want a normal living room without the clutter of side surrounds or rear surrounds 5.1 is king for the common folks @@slide6577
Team 7 ear level speakers right here!
...but I appreciate what you are representing here. It makes a lot of sense. It's expensive to go 7.1.4. Even with the cheapest receiver, you still have to buy a amp to fully power all of them. You can find 9 channel only receivers for much less, and I really think if you are going to go Atmos you have to get 4 height channels or you are not getting the true 3d audio experience.
receiver muhahaha, wat source you use, TH-cam on a TV ????
cheap soundbar is more than enough for these people!
You need better sources to do ATMOS !
@@lucasrem like what ?
I’m going from a 5.2.4 to a 7.2.6 I know my mind will be blown. I loved the .4 setup so much. We sold our house and are building a new one with a dedicated theater. Having the immersion of 7 ear level instead of the phantom side surrounds will be welcomed and I get to keep the height movement you also discussed. Ealan you are my favorite TH-camr right now. Your content is stellar and accurate. I wish you were around when I first got into this hobby about 4 years ago. Would have saved me some time and money. I agree with everything you say. I can confirm it all myself. Keep making this content my friend.
Thank you so much for the kind words! 😄🤘
All you need is a center speaker, left and right channel., rest of the speakers, nobody cares....
Mind blowing? you freak out in Cinemas ?
@@lucasrem the cinema has nothing on my home theater. I will explain further though. My last setup was in an open basement. The speakers were placed perfect but the room was not ideal. However in that space my 5.2.4 sounded 1000 times better than an actual cinema. I’m not the only person that thought that either. Better bass, more clarity, I actually heard surround movement way more clear than I ever heard at the theater. I started going to the cinema only to audition movies for my home theater. I stopped going to the theater all together after a while. (Marvel premieres were the only exception.) If you don’t believe me that’s fine I’d just question your setup. I would say most people would agree though that are into this hobby.
I used mind blowing to describe my new theater do to the fact that the room was designed to be a theater from the ground up. Very specific speaker placement, room treatment, more speakers and better AV equipment. It sounded amazing in my last space and there was hardly anybody that I brought over who listened that heard my setup didn’t say the words “this is crazy, I’ve never heard sound like that, this is better than the cinema, I’ve gotta get me something like this” and that was just speakers placed as good as they could in an improper room with mediocre equipment. Maybe I’m crazy but there is a reason why people spend thousands of dollars to bring the cinema in their homes. Go listen to a proper setup and get your mind blown my friend.
@@JavonDGreen Hi there, could I ask what was your set up for both of the rooms; i.e Processor, amps, speaker&subs thank you very much.
@@rayking507 sure. On the 5.2.4 setup I had a Yamaha Aventage rx2080 receiver, outlaw 5000 amp. Emotiva airmotiv speakers for bed layer. 4 Klipsch 5800c 2 in ceiling speakers for Atmos. 2 SVS sb16 ultra subs. I used butt kickers in all 5 leather home theater recliners as well. Biggest impact on the entire setup however was the mini DSP for the subs and proper room treatment.
The new setup 7.2.6 I switched to in walls using the focal 300 series for all speakers in bed layer and Atmos. Same subs but will upgrade later depending on the sound of the room or add 2 more of the same. The processor and amps have been upgraded to the Emotiva RMC-1 pre-amp processor
and XPA line of amplifiers. However I have my eye on audio control’s processor. This room has been properly treated acoustic wise and the screen went from 98inches to 127” the projector stayed the same and is an Epson 5050ub. Will most likely upgrade to a Sony or JVC though. I’ve added 2 more chairs as well for a total of 7
I agree with you. I have a Denon 4400, and I’ve had a 7.2 set up for a bit. Then just over a year ago got some ceiling speakers to have it as 7.2.2. It was cool to hear things above you, but as others have said … it’s like having surround sound only using 2 speakers at the front. I literally received the Emotiva Basx A3 amp yesterday, and 2 bipolar speakers. I’ll swap out my 2 bookshelf speakers with the bipolar, use them as height channels for the front and move my ceiling speakers as close to the back as possible (as seats are 12’ from back wall). The new amp will power front stage.
Whoa! Congrats on the upgrades! You’re gonna love the new setup! 🤘
My surrounds in 7.1.4 are elevated, no other way to do it in my room. My rear surrounds are directly below but in a couple feet from my rear heights. My front heights are directly above my front L and R. Both front and rear heights are aimed toward the mlp about standing height. You really get that submersive sound all around and above you. Sounds amazing.
Coming from someone with a 5.1.4 setup, go with a 7.1.2 if your room allows it - I wish mine did.
Yes, 4 overheads do make a difference... for the 30 seconds of atmos content that most movies have. For the other 99% of content and GAMES, you'll get to actually use your two rear speakers.
Tried the Atmos speakers front-high for a few years. Found that it made the sound stage too front-heavy and made it too difficult to tell what sounds were going above. Then spent a year and a half with the Atmos speakers hanging from upside-down wall-mounted bookshelf arms above the seat, pointing straight down, since I live in an apartment that I can't install ceiling speakers in and the seat was at the wall. However, I realized that having the seat right up against the wall probably wasn't good for reflections. My head is now about fifteen inches from the wall when I sit there and the Atmos speakers were slightly behind my head. Also found that having the two Atmos speakers almost directly above made the sound stage too back-heavy. So, after five or six years with Atmos, I finally removed the Atmos speakers from my system. "Downgraded" from 5.1.2 to 4.1. (No center speaker either because I could never get the speaker high enough beneath the TV and I rarely watch with other people anyway, meaning that not sitting in the center is almost never a problem and the phantom center of two front speakers makes more sense.) Almost all the movies I watch are in two-dimensional surround, mono or matrixed stereo. When I watch older movies with Atmos mixes, I almost always pick the older sound mixes because they're more tastefully done. I can point to several mixes where some of the height effects don't make sense. It's like they place the sounds there just so that listeners are satisfied that all their speakers are used. (Not to mention the LFE being too strong in some of the Atmos remixes.) Atmos and DTS:X make up such a minority of the content I consume. If you can't sit in the center of your listening space, if your seat is right up against the back wall or almost, don't bother with Atmos. The height effects will be largely wasted and sound more gimmicky than they should.
What if you wire 4 height speakers to the 2 available output terminals? Assuming the impedance of the combined speakers is within your receivers limits. I know they would play the same as a .2 but you'll have the option for a future upgrade, in addition to the speakers being at the 30 degree angle you said
Sure, you could, but there wouldn't be any true 3D movement up in the heights, since they are essentially copies of each other. But for a temporary solution in place before a future upgrade, sure! Why not? 😎
Yeah I have my couches up at the back of the living room. It’s a funky living room for a home theatre. On top of it, I choose to go with the builder pre wire and they put 5 surround speaker position pre wire in the curling. At least the two from and two backs are in line. Only thing though is I want Dolby atoms and need to figure out a way to do it with those. And my seats being way at the back where I can’t have anything behind. Oh and on top of that. One side wall is all windows so no speakers can go there in the wall either.
Yeah, we all gotta make do with what we got. My current living room also has a sliding glass door to one side, so that's a no-go for any kind of eventual in-wall or something. Oh well.
If your surrounds are placed correctly in a 5.1 system (slightly behind the listening position, above your head and angled down), I feel like you have to have a large space for the extra atmos speakers to make an impact. I feel like you would have to have at least 12 foot high ceilings in a room around 30 feet across for atmos channels to change the sound as they are intended too.
Very interesting. Do you have any reference ?
I slowly migrated from 5.1 to 5.1.2 to 5.2.2 to 7.2.2 & finally to 7.2.4.
I was genuinely surprised as I went from 5 to 7 ‘in the plane’ how much the side speakers added… & then from 2 front height adding 2 ceiling overhead (just in front of listening position)
Again, difference was significant.
Remember to rerun your receiver software to balance speakers.
Audigy 4 Marantz & Denon.
Congrats on hitting that 7.2.4 milestone! What’s next, you think? 😁🤘
@@ealanosborne hmm, considering I built each speaker set… & installed either in ceiling, in wall, & on wall…
& since the cost of an AV receiver that decodes MORE channels… not to mention amplification!… expands exponentially…
I’m a big nope. I’m done.
I might try different L&R for stereo music listening. Most intriguing are the latest Magnipans … that you can’t actually buy. Have a Krell amp for those…
I really enjoy pop music mixed in Dolby (Apple Spatial) with my setup it sounds really interesting. Simply a different listening experience to stereo. Stereo is king for most of my library. But, old quadraphonic recordings: The Doors - Riders on the Storm & the entir Pink Floyd - Dar Side of the Moon have been remixed into Dolby & sound stellar. So, the system isn’t just for movies. But, you need physical media for best audio results for video.
I have a 5.1.2 setup, but the atmos channels are at the top front near the 2 mains. I can barely hear them even though I have them turned up really high in the receiver as compared to all other speakers in the system. Only occasionally I hear them throw out distinct surround sound effects. Usually, it's things like birds or wind. Or, sometimes they help fill the room if it's a loud scene. But I believe the placement of those channels is really bad since the only way to really hear them is to put my ear literally 1" away from the speakers. The mains and center channels easily overpower them.
I have a 5.2.2 . Atmos speaker's are middle. Work for me.
maybe try room correction software?
I did 5.1.2 as well. from 5.1 moved paradigm dipole from rear surround, to ceiling, slightly forward of seating area. and added klipch studios, to the rear, increased my sub from 10", to 12" polk. in a small 8x12 space, with 4' walk thru area beside. I am very happy with the sound! I feel so much depends on the space. but really appreciate your videos, to help give me ideas, that will work with what I already have. :)
Excellent! Congrats on your upgrades. 😁🎉
Running a 7.2.4 at the moment with a 75" tv and loving it!
I'm still in the planning stages for basement theater atmos. But, the layout advice is interesting, Dolby has pretty straight forward recommendations, but there are a lot of differing opinions when it comes to 'real world' install advice. I want to do 9.4.4, but the couch position is 'fixed' and there's HVAC dirctly above and behind the couch position. The other 'problem' is that the ceiling is only 7 feet. This makes having 4 atmos channels difficult. The 2 in front are easy, but the rear heights would be 'too close' to the rear surrounds and be behind HVAC covered ceiling, so the only option would be 1. Only 2 front heights. 2. 'rear' heights directly above the couch. I'm still leaning towards that option but I'm still researching/investigating the best options.
Having two height speakers above your couch and two above your TV is still better than just two heights. It’ll still create the 3D cuboid that Atmos “audio objects” can move freely about in, like the mixing engineers intended. 👍
@@ealanosborne Good to hear! I’ve got the same problem as the couch is against the wall in a 5.1 setup. I want to go with 5.1.4 but would have to do 2 in-ceiling speakers directly above the couch and 2 on-wall heights in the front also.
Just don’t know whether it’s worth it in a room that’s not a dedicated home theatre …?
5.1 still sounds amazing on movies that have great sound design (1917/Transformers/Shazam/Tron Legacy) 🔊 🔊
@@ealanosborne My room is:
5.7m long (Sitting at 4.7m from the front)
3.72m wide (Speakers 3.3m L to R)
2.7m high Sealing
Wanne go 5.1.4
*1m back / 1.65m to each side / at 2.45m (on the backwall above a window aiming at me)
=>H2-L & R [Back height speakers]
* 1.7m or 1.6m Front / 1.65m to each side / at 2.6m (10cm of the sealing aiming at me)
=> H1-L & R
* Rest 1.2m high at 5.1 setup (What i use now)
Would this be ok?
Love Midway for Dolby Atmos! By far my favorite mix in all movies.
Thank you for the time you devote to helping us along, I’ve been enjoying your content! I’m new’ish to the more advanced side of home theater setups and in particular, to Atmos…but I’m in the process of buying new hardware and I have some questions which I hope are not too long or cumbersome!
1. 2 CHEAP (old) AVRs vs 1 EXPENSIVE ONE?
For the budget-minded, rather than buying one of the newer AVRs that offer all the channel outputs needed to have tons of speakers, could someone use 2 (older and cheaper) machines to power the same number of speakers…and still get proper Atmos configurations?
2. DO OLDER AVRs HAVE PROPER ATMOS OUTPUTS?
There are used Denons selling online, like the AVR-3312Ci for around $100. While on the back it has 1 set of “Height” outputs, it doesn’t say Dolby Atmos on the machine. Are all “Height” outputs on older AVRs sending data properly to overhead speakers? The AVR-3312Ci does say Dolby TrueHD, DTS-HD amongst other things, but not Atmos. Does a receiver *have to be* Atmos specific in order to pass the data/sound properly to the speakers that would be setup as ceiling/upwards-facing speakers (not to mention the ground-level speakers that Atmos communicates with)?
3. 2 AVR’s? -or 1 AVR + 1 AMPLIFIER?
If the answer to question 1 is that yes, (you can buy a cheaper AVR to receive all the HDMI (and other) inputs from your sources…and if said AVR doesn’t have enough channel outputs to power 5-7 ground-level speakers AND 2-6 ceiling/upwards-facing speakers) …would one be able to use the pre outs to power an additional amplifier? -or would it need to be another AVR, to get the proper Atmos configured output to the speakers?
4. REGARDING THE SPEAKERS.
If I put together the right AVR system (whether a single unit, or a combination of 2 or more) to power (up to) 7 ground-level speakers, plus 1 (2, or 3) sub-woofers, plus (up to) 6 ceiling (or upward-facing) speakers, can I mismatch different speakers and brands? For instance, I recently bought a set of Klipsch Reference Theater pack (before I knew about the Reference Cinema pack). If I keep the Theater pack and buy 2 more ground-level speakers…AS WELL as some overhead speakers (whether ceiling-mounted, or other) …could I shop around to add to this array, even if I end up getting cheap ceiling speakers? The ceiling speakers (round ones that install into the ceiling) seem pricey compared to the set 5.1 set I just bought. If I shop around and buy other brand speakers (whether the round ones made specifically for ceiling use or not), would that yield workable results?
5. KLIPSCH UPWARD-FACING vs CEILING SPEAKERS.
Which are better? Would the Reference Cinema pack be a better option for having Atmos “ceiling sound” rather than using the Reference Theater pack and adding cheaper ceiling speakers (mounted on the ceilings and pointing down)?
Thanks in advance!
Wow! Thanks for the kind words. Truly appreciated. So...here we go:
1) The only AVRs that you could use together would be the kind that have the 7.1 analog audio input section on the rear - which typically is only reserved for the more expensive models. But regarding Atmos with that...
2) Yes, in order to get true Atmos decoding, the AVR itself would need to say "atmos" on it. Atmos isn't just lots of speakers, it's an actual codec that a soundtrack has been mixed in by professional post production facilities.
3) No. An AVR can only process a limited number of channels at once. An AVR with 11 pre outs can only process up to 11 channels of audio. You wouldn't be able to use 9 internal amps AND 11 pre outs to create a monster 20 channel system.
4) You can definitely mix and match different brands of speakers initially, if you want to save money, or find one killer sale on one brand, etc. But the ultimate goal is to have them all the same brand. That way they're "timbre-matched," all having the same sonic characteristics. Although my rule of thumb is definitely go for the same brand for the ear-level speakers first, because Atmos height effects tend to be more atmospheric and subtle, so it's not as obvious when you have a different brand for your Atmos height speakers.
5) I will almost never recommend upward firing speakers, unless it's absolutely necessary in your particular space, or your significant other doesn't approve, or you live in an apartment and can't go drilling holes in the wall or ceiling. Otherwise, either wall-mounted, ceiling-mounted or in-ceiling speakers all day, baby! 😎
@@ealanosborne Thank you so much, perfect reply!--Just the information I was looking for. I have begun my "journey" and look forward to completing it and staying in touch with other like minded people as I progress. Have a great one.
You just keep answering those tricky questions that most of us building our Atmos systems are asking mate, another great video 👍
Thank you!!! 🤘
I had sort of determined already, 5.1.4 is the way to go but was wondering what others thought. And just like you said 7.1.4 vs 5.1.6 is the next question.. Although easy decision for me, mid heights not possible in my room.
I have preordered the 3800h, and I will be setting up a 5.4.6 speaker setup!
I think you’re gonna love it. I just got mine. Just a word of advice: run the update! lol it is a bit buggy without it and I’ve heard others say they couldn’t even get through Audyssey. After the update? GREAT AVR. I love it 🙌
Yes, run the firmware update! Shane Lee also experienced some truly bizarre bugs (like 7 height channel options) before updating. 👍
Okay, thanks guys, I will do that before calibrating!
I’ve been running 100” 1080p Optoma GT5600 Ultra Short throw projector with a Sony STR-DH790 set up as 5.2.2. I’m very happy with both video display and Dolby Atmos. This is my 4th or 5th build. I have them set up in the following manner…2 Sony SSF7000(4 way towers). Amazon Silver ticket dual 5” Center Chanel. I custom mounted it my center console directly under my UST projector. 2x 8” angled Silver ticket in ceiling speakers at 30 degrees in front from listening position. 2x 8” angled in ceiling speakers slightly behind and to corner area of listening position for my rears. I have my kitchen directly behind living room, so no way to have any rear speakers on the floor or wall behind. I might try some tiny cube speakers for left and right channels in my future 5.2.4 upgrade.
I hear ya! I’ll have a kitchen behind me too when we move into our new home soon. Not ideal for surround backs.
It really depends on your room and how big it is. I have a 7.2.4 setup.
This is literally the only thing that should be considered.
Great video as always. Could you do a video on atmos ceiling speaker placement please? Some people are saying the ceiling speakers shouldn't be inline with the front L/R speakers and that Dolby has it incorrectly on their website. I followed Dolby's guide when I setup my 7.2.2 and now I am in the process of expanding to 7.2.4 and I would like to finalize the location of the ceiling speakers without making whole bunch of holes and patching them. Thanks!
Do you have in-ceiling speakers, or mounted speakers on your ceiling?
@@ealanosborne I have in-ceiling speakers that are adjustable. Have them pointing towards the MLP.
Refer to the Dolby atmos studio speaker set up(PDF), not the Dolby atoms home set up.
@@tonyoneill7031 I can't seem to find the pdf you are referring to. This is all I have been able to search for www.dolby.com/about/support/guide/speaker-setup-guides/7.1.4-overhead-speaker-setup-guide/
@@jitu757 the link that you have inserted is the home version & is misleading.
The Dolby studio version refers to not placing the overheads in line with the main speakers.
Watch this video for reference,
th-cam.com/video/kGZsrU4oNAM/w-d-xo.html
Really, REALLY useful info. I'm about to install new setup with 4 heights so your video's have been invaluable. Many thanks. You sir, are my kind of nerd! 🙂
Hooray! Thank you so much for your kind words. ☺️
Another great video! I just got my x3800h and extra Klipsch R-41SA’s for rear heights! This was an upgrade from a 5.1.2 on a S930h with mirrored subs to, now, a true 5.2.4
Yayyyy! 🤘
Ealan, based on this video,I could use your input and opinion.
Currently have 5.1.2 with the heights overhead.
Going to expand but my room is open concept and no place for ear level rear surrounds.
So only option would be surround rears angled in ceiling.
So either I can do 7.1.4 with front elevation, overhead heights, and rear surrounds in ceiling.
Or, 5.1.6 with no rear surrounds.
If I do a .6 setup then I'm going to go with the x3800h.
If I do a 7.1.4 setup then I can get an avr for a few hundred less.
Hmmm…excellent question, my friend. If all Atmos mixes were created equal and filled with incredibly dynamic effects placed in and around and above you all the time, I’d say go with 6 heights. But since Atmos mixes are so commonplace and expected with anything new now, it’s being stretched thin a little as of late. So I would probably go with 7.1.4 with your in-ceiling surround backs. They’ll be active much more than 6 heights. But when really cool Atmos effects DO happen, you still have 4 speakers that those height effects can fly around between. 🤘 My 2 cents. 😁
@@ealanosborne thanks for the input man, I do really appreciate it. One more question - in your travels, have you had any experiences with 4 heights, where 2 are elevation in front and 2 are overhead? It doesn't have to be the absolute best setup, but if possible I would rather not have to move my overheads and start patching. If I can get an improved experience with 2 front heights and 2 overheads, with the 2 rear in ceilings being the rear surrounds, I would love to give it a shot.
@@danny51577 Oh for sure! In fact, I would suggest that, since your surround backs would be behind your listening position anyway.
@@ealanosborne just thought of one more thing that you may have insight to. With the avr, is it possible to assign the height speakers as front and overhead/middle?
Or is there only an option for front and rear?
I was just watching another of your videos setting up a Denon AVR, and it looks like it gives you only front and rear heights options.
@@danny51577 I believe it's just front and rear. BUT...technically you could still place speakers in an overhead/middle position. Running room correction software will time align the speakers to your listening position, regardless of where you actually place/mount them.
This is so helpful. I'm moving to a place and I have easy access to the ceiling and trying to figure out what the best setup would be. I'll be visiting to figure out where to put my 4 ceiling speakers.
Excellent! Glad I could help. And congrats on the move! 🤘
I know upward-firing Atmos speakers are largely shunned by home theater enthusiasts (though to be fair, the criticism is mostly justified), but IF you have the ideal ceiling height and texture, IF you cannot (or don't want to) install in-ceiling speakers, and IF the speakers are not TOO far away from the main listening position, I have found them to actually work really well and had a significantly better experience with them vs without them. But... BUT... If you do upward-firing you MUST have 4 of them.
I can't really explain why, but having the sound come from all directions instead of just localized to the front made a huge difference. I also had to increase the volume by 2 or 3 db on just the upward-firing speakers from whatever Audyssey sets them to during calibration.
I have REALLY limited space for my home theater so my setup probably isn't ideal. I had to get really creative and figure out how to get the best sound possible with the smallest footprint possible (because space). So I have 4 powered tower speakers with integrated subs, all connected to LFE, as my front and surrounds. Each tower has an Atmos upward-firing speaker. Then a matching center speaker, of course. So I don't have any separate subs or in-ceiling speakers, but it still sounds amazing. Especially when every speaker is the same, the sound is always perfect whether it comes from the front or the rear, plus there's very even bass distribution. It's not perfect! But it works. 😄
Whoa that’s cool! Thanks for your explanation. As long as it sounds amazing to you, and you’ve done what you can with your unique circumstances, that’s all you need! 😁🙌
Just now starting to formulate a plan for my next upgrade. My room sucks, but gotta work with what I have. Currently 5.x and am going to upgrade to a new avr that can handle 5.x.4 or 7.x.2. I'll probably just take a picture of my room and ask the folks on forums what my best options are...but it appears I've found a new channel to dig into. Thanks!
Sweet! Thanks for watching! Upgrading a home theater is addicting, so welcome to the madness! 😁🙌
@Ealan Osborne I purposely stay off the forums until I am ready to finalize...because they are a dangerous place for my wallet. I already am setting a price limit for my 4th sub before I even go in there...
Best part about upgrading is using your old stuff in a different room to continue the madness!
My ultimate goal is to have the Trinnov with the expansion for a total of 48 channels. Of course that will only happen after I win the 1.9B Powerball. In the meantime I am very happy with my 7.3.4 setup.
You and me both with that 1.9B Powerball! 🙌
So Ealan, I get that 5.1.4 is prolly the best way to go instead of 7.1.2.
2 questions, first being, I have the Jamo S805 with the bundled Atmos speakers that connect onto the top of my fronts... I also have an extra pair of the S801 speakers that I can put hi up onto the wall behind my listening position. Now having the front Atmos aiming at the ceiling to bounce back down to my listening position, would it be a good idea to connect the extra s801 speakers behind my listening position, or should I just run only 2 Atmos and rather use these bookshelves as surround rears, in a 7.1.2 as opposed to a 5.1.4.
Second question is, Would the rear surrounds in a 7.1 benefit me more than having them high up behind the listening position in a 5.1.4
Hmmm…well it also comes down to convenience. If you’re willing to mount things up high instead of just keeping things at ear level, go for it.
But also, a combination of upward firing and direct sound coming from height speakers might prove to be a little off. The timing of those two sources won’t be aligned, you know? So maybe in your case it would be more advantageous to go with 7.1.2? 🤷♂️
I'm running 7.1.2. The four surrounds are about 3 feet higher than the listen position with all four angled down. As for the heights, my only option was front heights.
Here’s a test that would be interesting that I’ve not seen anyone comment on.
For the bed layer only is 6.1 better or worse than a well setup 5.1 if you’re unable to go to 7.1?
The reason I say that is a well setup 5.1 has a nice stereo image on the Side Surrounds, from a 7.1 mix it’s taking stereo rear imaging into those side surrounds as well. On a 6.1 setup the Rear surrounds become mono. So do you gain by having true sound behind you? Or loose on some mixes because you loose some of that nice stereo image in the sides 🤔
I guess it makes sense if you’re listening by yourself. Otherwise, it’s nice to have 7.1 if there are multiple people watching on a couch, so everyone gets decent coverage from behind.
But you can also make surround backs as wide or as close to each other as you want. If your surround backs are right next to each other directly behind you, is it still 7.1 or technically 6.1? 🤔😄
@@ealanosborne I keep meaning to try it and find a decent few sample tracks. My Left SS and Right SS give me lovely stereo imaging now but are slightly ahead of my MLP (due to a door to the left of my MLP). I can probably get a widely dispersed Rear channel in there (my Denon supports that config) but due to layout challenges 2 wouldn’t fit or would be a waste as they would be very close.
My setup is mainly configured for the MLP and a 2nd seat just next to it (but mainly MLP 😏)
I’ve tried watching the Dolby Optimiser videos Shane Lee does sometimes to see if there’s much stereo action in the Rear channels I’d be loosing if mixing that to mono (but keeping Sides to stereo 🤔)
5.1.6 is my intended setup, except instead of top rears I would add rear heights. I'm adding a second row of seating and so ear level rears aren't the best idea. Rear heights will give me a bit of both worlds back there.
So top fronts and middles, side surrounds, rear heights.
Surrounds and rear surrounds shouldn't be at ear level. Try 1-2' (30-60cm) above ear level and angle them towards listening position. Clearer sound for all listeners and it sounds more realistic especially for 5.1 content.
Too much going on in the rear imo. You do not have the same audio imaging behind you as you do in front of you.
Rears mounted ear level is all you need. The channels in front and to the side of you should be seperated between ear level and heights begining with the front stage most important
Isn't it the case that most receivers that can process 9 channels can also process 11 channels, even if they can't power all 11? Considering that you can get a stereo amp for very little, I would say just go for 7.x.4!
This. You can also buy a 4 channel mini-amp to power the height channels specifically.
Not all 9 channel receivers can process 11 channels. Like the Onkyo TX-NR7100. It does even have pre-outs to hook an external amp. There are other vendors as well that have only 9 channels. When I went looking for a affordable setup that did 11 I found several that were 9 only, even some very expensive ones. I'd say it's about 50/50 between ons that do just 9 to ones that process 11.
Correct, most can process a total of 11 channels. But a lot of consumers won’t be able to immediately go to a 7.x.4 setup since going from a 7 channel to 9 channel AVR is a huge price jump. So in the meantime where they are forced to utilize the internal amps, I recommend 5.x.4. 😁🤘
@@Cyclone311 Yes, the Onkyo/Pioneer/Integra trio does have a 9-channel-processing AVR, but the price is much closer to those 11-channel ones than the 7-channel ones. I think the RZ-50 and LX505 are better values than the NR7100 and LX305 for the additional $300.
@@ealanosborne Isn't 5.x.4 9 channels already? Or do you mean that since those consumers already spent a fortune on those 9- or 11-channel-processing receivers, they might need to hold back on the additional speakers?
Thanks so much for the tutorials/reviews. Great info before making a large purchase! I just got a Marantz Cinema 40 and run 2 Polk in-walls L/R, Martin Logan Motion 8 Center, and 2 Polk in walls for surround. I also have 4 JBL 6” ceiling speakers behind the listening position. Also running 2 MTX SW12 subwoofers.(will be upgrading to 4 subs in the near future). Per your advice, I tried the 5.2.4 and the 7.2.2 with additional height channel. I found the 7.2.2 sounds the best with the surround back as 1 set of ceilings right behind the listening position and the heights 6’ behind them. Somehow the 7.2.2 “blends” the effects better than the 5.2.4. Overall, very impressive sound coming out of that Marantz! Again, thanks for the info.
Awesome! Glad this helped! 😊🎉
I have a 5.1.4 setup but my living room is an open concept to the dining room and hardwood floors about. So, no ideal at all. We do have a large area rug in the living room area but that’s about it. I recently took my front Atmos upfiring speakers down of the ceiling and put them on the front left and rights. Anyway, the point is though it’s not ideal, everything does sound really good. My goal is to move to a house where I can situate everything a lot better.
Yeah, my new construction home (hopefully done in Nov) is the same. I’ll be able to have maybe a 3.2.2 setup, or maybe 5.2.2 with the surrounds actually in the ceiling behind the couch? Still contemplating how I’ll handle that situation. But at least I have my shed theater for a true theater experience. 😄 The Home Theater Bug is real!
@@ealanosborne Hey I hope it works out for you. We’re hoping to move before next Winter but we’ll have to see. Like you, my wife isn’t actually all that caring about my quest for a home theater setup! I’m definitely going to keep the 5.1.4 setup and might do a front and rear wall heights in the future sometime. Actually, I still have my other Atmos speakers mounted on the ceiling slightly behind the listening position so I have that hybrid setup Dolby specified. It actually works pretty well but I think Atmos would work a lot better with both heights being on the wall like you said in your video comparison.
The thing I respect about you is that you take the time to try things out so you can speak from experience. I know it takes way longer than it seems on a video.
I have 7 ear-level and 4 heights for Auro3D, VOG channel, and center height. When I moved from 5 to 7 ear-level speakers, I noticed the difference, but I wonder if it's not just because I had more space behind me by not having to put my seats up against the wall. I sometimes switch my rear surrounds on/off and I can tell the difference, but it's not huge imo. Properly placed side surrounds (slightly behind and to the side) can sound very convincing.
4 heights definitely has more movement....WHEN there's content up there. The other reason to go 5.1.4 is if your AVR has Auro3D, you can upmix lacking content. You need 4 heights for that. That's why I prefer on-wall to on-ceiling.
Thanks! It does take time, as you know all too well. 😁
I did go for the 7.1.2 but my 2 heights speakers are in front of me on the wall pointing directly at me @30-45degrees... I'm not expanding to 7.1.4 because there is very little height info in all the movies and I have it mainly for the music.
Mines in my living room , I started with speakers on the ceiling high up on walls, I've now got atmos floorstanders( klipsch ) and it sounds better to me
Great video! I have a simple 5.1 surround system setup today and wishing an upgrade soon. First and foremost I need an Atmos/DTS-X capable AVR as well (existing one is outdated). I think it will look like a journey from current status towards IMAX step by step :) next step can be 5.1.2, then 5.1.4 and maybe 7.x.4 at a later stage in time. I am pretty sure/convinced that each configuration will act as a right step forward and make sense. Thanks for the clear explanations Ealan.
Those are some solid expansion goals, right there! 🤘
Nice one Elan 👍 Hey I know it's something that probably doesn't affect you greatly but I was wondering if you could at some point cover how to do atmos for home theatres with 2 rows of seating. I'm pretty sure I have it pegged but need to be certain before making my atmos installation vid for my channel. For example when you have a 5.2.4 and a 7.2.4 setup with one row seating all 4 atmos are angle to that one row. But with say a 9.2.4 setup I'm assuming that we only have 2 speakers shooting at both the rows? But it just doesn't make sense when thinking about the surround signals. Wouldn't a 9.2.4 setup with 2 rows need different atmos signaling compared to say a 7.2.4 etc? Anyway it's just something that's suddenly popped up on my radar that I've been thinking about. Cheers man 😎
Well, that’s why with Audyssey and Dirac Live (and most room correction software) you typically position the calibration mic in several different positions to get the best audio no matter where you sit. So yeah, with two rows of seats, I would definitely make sure to move that calibration mic to as many different spots as possible.
Beyond that, there are processors out there that can be assigned to duplicate surround signals - like if you have 2 or even 3 rows of seats - so each row gets a direct surround signal. So the configuration might only be 9.2.4, but you have 11 ear-level speakers, since the surrounds are duplicated to the sides of each row of seats. But only the real expensive processors can do that properly, like Trinnov. But most people won’t have the luxury of 2 or 3 rows of seats. 😁
i would say, 5.1.4 but the announcement of the A1H has made me become obsessed with 9.1.6.....
I have a 5.1 setup. My avr only has room for 1 more pair of speakers. Not sure if i should get some book shelves for 7.1 or atmos for 5.1.2. But this has given me much to think about
Or going with 2 front heights and 2 middle in sealing,and 7 on the ground, tried it good results
@ealanosborne --- How many speakers is the max for current movies and shows? How many channels are they making these movies in?
Also, what's the max amount of subwofers a setup should have?
For the longest time, studios would mix Atmos in 7.1.4, but there are a lot more titles that are being mixed in larger configurations. That being said, Atmos at its core should conform to however many speakers you have, technically up to 24 ear level, 10 height and 1 subwoofer channel. And having at least 2 subwoofers is usually ideal, since it helps get bass frequencies more evenly output around your furniture, etc.
@@ealanosborne--- I've read that having two subwoofers isn't the same as having two subwoofer channels, can you explain?
Öhhh Elan, if your couch is on the wall, how you can go with a 5.1.4? The 4 hight channels should in front and behind you - not possible with a wall on your backhead 😬 or I miss something?
Btw can’t wait to see the collab with Brad 😃
That’s the only scenario where you would just need to mount two height speakers above you and two in front of you. Not the most ideal situation, but better than just two height speakers.
One of these days, I might be able to afford to upgrade to Atmos. I am still stuck with 5.1 (actually 5.0 since my custom subs got damaged). I have old Klipsch KLF-30s for fronts AND surrounds and they provide so much bass, that subwoofers are not needed.
Damn, that’s still a good setup! No shame when you’re rockin’ KLF-30’s!
7.1.2 all day. There is a lot more information in the bed layer than there is in the top layer.
Just upgraded to a Denon x4300h going from a 5.2.2 to 7.2.2. excited to hear how that sounds.
Excellent, my friend. I’m excited for you as well! 🤘
I like DTSx better it does have a higher bit rate and it sounds awesome....but I always try to map near the source material if it's atmos I use atmos if it's DTS I play through DTS...but the issue is not all Atmos tracks have content
I would love to do a 7.1.4 buuuut space is limited. Seats are against the back wall of the room so no rear surrounds for me. Still need the over head atmos installed then I will have my 5.1.4! Also, your videos are super helpful and entertaining to watch. That's an impressive combo. Sometimes reminds me of my youth watching Bill Nye the science guy. Shout out from Alaska!
Winner! Bill Nye the Science Guy is the #1 influence with how I present my info. I LOVED that show growing up 😁🤘
@@ealanosborne
I knew it!!😎🤙🏻
For me, it's senseless. I get the slight improvement in a couple of scenes but it's not worth the increased likelihood of electronic failure for those channels or the sound reduction of the LCR for those channels. Any improvement that comes at the expense of the LCR is not worth it. Now if your LCR is maxed out and you're rocking Perlisten S's as your LCR, then yeah get' em height channels since your Trinnov can probably run them.
That doesn't mean I don't appreciate the video or your review as they were great!
@ 2:10 i just tested it on my pc. using "English TrueHD Atmos 7.1 (GER UHD Blu-ray)" decoded by my Strix Sound Card, output via Creative GigaWorks S750. no problem to hear the planes humming over me, without any heights speaker
I heard a few people say that 7.1.2 was better for gaming. I game but my small room can only support 5.1.4 with upfiring hight speakers. I cant mount anything to my appartments ceiling.
Hmmm…I think that might be true, since gaming audio engines work differently, so it would be advantageous to have actual speakers behind you to create a more realistic surround sound experience. 🤘
Hmm, given the layout of my room (a long open plan kitchen /living room) I'm not able to get a 5.1.4 layout as described here. There being no place to wall mount rear height speakers due to kitchen cabinets, wall mounted boiler, alcoves, doorway, windows etc. So a 5.1.4 for me would be front and middle heights only. Given that I can get floor mounted rear surrounds and wall mounted side surrounds positioned, a 7.1.2 layout would have those plus two front heights. So, in my specific case, which of the two would be better, as your recommendation specifically relies on those rear mounted heights. Ceiling mounted speakers are not an option.
7.1.2 was a close second for sure, so there’s no shame in going that route. I have an even less ideal living room with it nearly impossible to have any surrounds or surround backs on the floor, so I’m thinking of having a good ol-fashioned 5.1 system with a passive soundbar underneath the TV and rear surrounds in the form of in-ceiling speakers. Atmos is cool, but it’s not the “end all, be all” for me. As long as it sounds good to you, you’re golden. 🙌
Is there a benefit to 6 height channels? Are Dolby Atmos movie soundtracks mixed with 6 height channels in mind?
Kind of. I’ll be doing more tests with that soon. It should matrix properly with 6 height channels, but not all mixes do it the right way. Stay tuned! 😁🤘
@@ealanosborne Looking forward to the video. Keep up the good work. I'm learning quite a bit from your channel.
@@denischo2964 Thank you!
Love your content and I have a challenge for you . Make a video of horrible room setups but make them work. You know, 3 person couch offset from the tv, wife that just has to put things in the living room, said women that moves back surrounds that are on stands, things like that..... Just asking for a friend.
That’s where good room correction is key, but that’s a great challenge! 😁🤘
Thanks for this. I'm wanting to setup a full home theater and your videos are super helpful. I'd love to hear your thoughts on the Sony STR-DH790 (since that's the one I'm looking at). I'm torn between a 5.1.2 and a 7.1 setup. Anyways, thanks for the info.
The str-dh790 is what I recommend to a lot of people (and in my past videos) for one of the least expensive ways to get into Atmos. Although with that being said, if you plan on eventually having 4 height speakers (and upgrading to a 9 channel receiver), I’d maybe stick with 7.1 for awhile.
On the contrary, though, if you want to experience a 5.1.2 setup, I’ve done well using heavy duty Velcro from a hardware store to mount height speakers without creating any holes to patch up later. So there’s that 😄🤘
Thanks so much for the tips. That gives me a lot more confidence in choosing the dh790 and better perspective on how to set it up.
I have a 7.1.6 in my set up. I'm using the Center Front Height and the Top Surround (AKA) Voice of God. It's sounds amazing upmixing movies to Auro3D or Neural X
I have a 4.0 System. 2 x KEF Q750 front and 2 x KEF Q150 back. I dont want a Center because iam sitting pretty much in the Sweet Spot. I love how it sounds. Movies sounds better than the 7.1.2 system from my neighbor. :-).
sometimes i have to choose in movies 5.1 , dolby atmos, which is better for my 4.0 system ? or it doesnt matter ?
I’ve seemed to notice that bass response is better with Atmos, and it tends to be a little louder just on its own. Not sure why that is, but I like it better than listening to the same thing in 5.1. If you have the option, might as well try both and see what sounds better with 4.0. 👍
@@ealanosborne thank you for quick responding. Sorry my english is bad :-)
i mean depends on your room surely.... i dont have space behind me where my sofa is to bother with rear speakers for any "7" system, so i went 5.2.4
Hey Ealan, how do you think it would sound with two front heights and two rears up on the side walls angled down, do you think the since of movement would be the same as having rear heights? I love your channel and thanks for all the knowledgeable information your share with us!
Alas I have no choice. My avr is only 7 channels. I have 2 subwoofer outs but they aren't indepedant of each other. To be fair I'm on a tight budget, and I just started getting back into thehome theater game again. I want the new denon avr-a1h for 9.4.6 at 150 watts/channel what a beast!
That’s one epic goal! 😁 Piece by piece. You got time 🤘
Great video! Just upgraded to an Onkyo 7100 and would like to add two speakers for 5.1.4… BUT, I have a dilemma:
My four surrounds in my current 7.1 setup are ALL at ceiling height; what’s more, is that my surround backs are on the same side wall as my side surrounds….
So do I add two front heights at ceiling height (and all of my speakers will be ceiling height), or do I use my four current ceiling speakers as my Atmos layer and add two new side surrounds at ear-level? 😬
Hmmm…yeah, I think the easiest would be to add ear-level surrounds, if that’s possible in your space. 🤔
@@ealanosborne thanks for the tip! I’ll see if I can make that work!
Ealan, I'm one of the ones whose back seating is about 6 inches from the back wall , I have no choice but to locate my rear surrounds on the side wall to the left and right.
I'm going with in wall speakers.
To help save as much space in my tiny room of 12.5 x 12.5 x 9.
I want to do a 5.2.4 setup.
Where abouts would you locate the 4 channel atmos speakers in ceiling?
Rear heights I’d put pretty much as far back as they can go (so basically above the couch) and front heights somewhere in the middle between the couch and the TV, but probably leaning more closely to the TV. Not the most ideal, but it’ll still provide enough space for great movement of height effects when they happen. 👍
My room is similar dimension, 13×12×9. I thought I couldn't do 4 atmos, but surprisingly it worked. I used audio advice planning tool to draw it up. Turned out great. My recliner is about 86 inches from the screen, so that gave me a few feet behind seat and rear wall.
@@damionrowe Nice! That online tool from Audio Advice is great!
Can you do a video on how you set up the angles of your heights
My DIY Home Theater Build Ep 3 goes over that. Skip to about 5 min in…
th-cam.com/video/2SmvqlNqg2g/w-d-xo.html
I have an unusual set up because of my room. I have no side walls so I have six ceiling speakers. The configuration is 7.2.2. My ceiling is 12 feet high. I have two ceiling speakers that are designated height about 3 feet from front wall, and in the back of ceiling I have two set for surround and two closest to rear wall set as backs. I mostly steam and it very immersive. I would like to try the 5.2.4 to see if I can have better Atmos without degrading the immersion of shows that are not Atmos. Which speakers in the back need to be set as height and which surround. I’m guessing the speakers that are forward which line up with front heights should be height, and the two closest to
back wall designated surround. Is this correct? Than you and the video was excellent and has convinced me to try 5.1.4
.
Correct. I would designate your front 4 in-ceiling speakers as front and rear height speakers. Then the 2 closest to the back wall set as surrounds. Try that out. Very interesting setup indeed! Very cool! :)
@@ealanosborne thanks Ealan for the confirmation of the speaker set up. My dealer recommends that I keep it at his 7.2.2 configuration as he says it will give me the best all around sound. He said 5.1.4 would make Atmos better but for everything else I would be losing sound content and it won’t be as immersive. Does he have a point? Thanks
im' planing to go on 5.2.1, because my knowoledge is not enought to go further , ayway i already have the wire setup so it's too late
Are there any AV receivers that would give me the option of using wireless connection for the upward firing speakers? what is your opinion of when the lowest prices would appear on that equipment? Black Friday, cyber Monday? Or have things dropped in price now due to inventory overruns?
What's the point? If they're wireless, it means they need to receive power, so you still need wires - but thicker ones (for high voltage insulation, and surround speakers really don't need much power - perfectly fine to use a thinner wire).
I got 5.1 with phantom centre, not much room under the computer screen and I am in the ideal place always, just the 1 guy.
Now to see if I want those height channels.
The back row is against the back wall but that's the overflow seats so I do plan to do something for rear speakers as they will work fine for the middle and front rows. Because I have three rows maybe I should consider 7.1.6 for Atmos but again, the back row is overflow so maybe I'll stay with 7.1.4.
Yeah it’s not worth it to do 6 heights if they’re going to be only a few feet apart. Otherwise, might be a good idea with three rows! 🤷♂️
@@ealanosborne Yeah I think you're right, if I put heights in for the back row, they are probably going to be too close to the rear speakers. Maybe the optimum would be to put the front heights just a foot or so in front of the front row and the back heights a foot or so behind the middle row.
The rear speakers are pretty much going to be almost directly overhead over the back row, maybe just slightly behind as I have room on the riser to pull the back row six or eight inches out. So there is really no good place to put a third pair of heights.
This is my 2nd dedicated theater in my 2nd, "forever house", knowing me I'll end up building a 3rd, "forever house" and if so I'll make the room deep enough to have three rows with at least five or six feet between the back row and the back wall.
Currently I have only a 5.1 set up Denon X3800 and planning to go with Auro 3D height configuration. I'm also a 2 channel listeners and have my Front L/R are 2.5 feet 30 inches out from front wall.....and wondering how it would sound with 2 heights mounted on wall. I'm concerned that having height speakers 30inches behind mains may not sound good ?
Auro 3D says is not advisable to have top front hieghts further out in front of the bed level speakers....they should simply be mounted high up on the wall aimed at you at between 30 to 35 degrees ear level....sounds very simple.
what if heights are behind ? can't find any info or discussion on these placement scenarios.
Your height speakers will almost always be placed behind your front speakers (like mine are), since front speakers will almost always be away from the wall a bit. As long as you run room correction software or dial in the distances correctly, it should be fine, since the software will take all the measurements into account. I don't feel like my soundstage gas suffered at all because my heights are not vertically in line with my ear-level speakers. 👍
Hello, what do you think about the Bose B1 Bass Module Subwoofer? Does it work for home use on Dolby Atmos receiver, especially for action movies, as it is an old model? Can it give me a great performance?
I’m not too familiar with the B1, but from what I’m reading online about it, I think it’s made to only work with the Bose L1 Passive PA systems, so it’s not like a standard subwoofer. 🤷♂️
Figuration I'm looking for is having like in the front like about six seats in the front and you step up and have like about six in the back and then you have a little space behind it to put your back speakers and your height speakers I was going to have some side speakers so I can hit the level for the ones on the second year what do you think would be the best consideration gun I'm putting it in my basement and my basement totally gutted
Yeah, you might want 6 height speakers in total with 2 big rows of seating like that. Although it’s only worth it if the height speakers are more than about 6 feet apart. If your space only allows for heights to be less than 6 feet apart, it’s not really worth it, since they’ll bleed into each other. Just stick with 4 height channels if that’s the case. 👍
Done both and I found 7.3.4 to be the best.
7.1.2 all the way. Side surrounds add way more than ATMOS speakers
I live in and have a family room that is 18x15 feet with an 8 foot flat ceiling so owning a 5.1.2 Channel Dolby Atmos Home Theater Set-Up Paired with a 7-Channel Premium Home Theater Dolby Atmos Surround Audio-Video Receiver would be very perfect for our family room and it sounds very bass/treble/midrange-heavy immersive awesome room-filling dynamic cinematic realistic fully-detailed crystal-clear punchy rich sharp lifelike impactful and stunning and not only I don’t need another subwoofer since I own a 12-inch subwoofer and the those two Bipole Surround Loudspeakers & two Upward-Firing Height Elevation Loudspeakers all have a 5-1/4 inch woofers and 1 inch tweeters and two of the Floorstanding tower loudspeakers have a 6-1/2 inch woofer a 1 inch tweeter and there is a ton of and lots of great powerful dynamic room-filling punchy immersive impactful midrange bass. I do not need a 9-channel Dolby Atmos Receiver or either two more upward-firing height elevation Dolby Atmos Loudspeakers or two more surround loudspeakers a 5.1.2 channel Dolby Atmos Home Theater Set-up paired with a 7-channel Dolby Atmos Receiver would only work in small to medium sized rooms like mine and a 5.1.4 or 5.2.4 channel Dolby Atmos Home theater set up would only work in medium to large rooms or if a 9 channel Dolby Atmos receiver has multiple speaker pre-outs then you can add an amplifier to add two more surround speakers only in large rooms
My room is:
5.7m long (Sitting at 4.7m from the front)
3.72m wide (Speakers 3.3m L to R)
2.7m high Sealing
Wanne go 5.1.4
*1m back / 1.65m to each side / at 2.45m (on the backwall above a window aiming at me)
=>H2-L & R [Back height speakers]
* 1.7m or 1.6m Front / 1.65m to each side / at 2.6m (10cm of the sealing aiming at me)
=> H1-L & R
* Rest 1.2m high at 5.1 setup (What i use now)
Would this be ok?
My concern about future-proofing my ATMOS setup is how well the current x.x.4 or x.x.6 receivers will translate the Atmos audio mix track of the future(as you discussed in your "Dolby...Please" video. i.e. Should we be concerned about the changes in the algorithms for decoding the discrete metadata sent to the height channels which may require another receiver purchase?🤔
Since Atmos is metadata decoded by the processor, I’m going to bet that future upgrades will be more on the software/firmware side of things. 🤞🤞
@@ealanosborne Yeah. Thats the dicey part about going too far with the future proofing. I was just looking over a spec sheet on a "THX" certified 7.1 Denon receiver that I purchased 10 years ago that was supposed to be "future-proof". The only sound field that it has that would be relevant today was DTS. Denon never firmware upgraded that unit. Im glad I ebay-ed it while it had some value. Even though manufacturers may make statements about future-proofing their products, they're still at the mercy of Dolby/DTS's proprietary firmware algorithms changing in a way that may not be supportable by the current receiver hardware. We see it with PC technology all the time. And as you've covered in your videos, the industry is way behind maintaining standards for content streaming beyond the current 5.1.2. So why upgrade for greater speaker ratios only to be given fancy emulations like AURA3D. Until Dolby/DTS get their standards in order for delivering consistent Atmos streaming content, Im laying low with my (9.2) 5.1.4. Thanks for your response. Great content.
why place height speakers inline with mains? Panning will travel from side surounds to heights not mains . Shouldnt they be placed in relation to side surrounds? Maybe within 60 deg or as close as possible to 60deg?
Then there is me who like 6.1 and is wondering how I could be implement high channels there
Since I just got a Denon x4700h last month my budget won't yet allow me to get any more speakers beyond my 10-15--year-old 5.1 setup. Since my chair is against the back wall in my bedroom and I can't poke holes in my ceiling, I'm thinking I might need to go with some up-firing speakers in the front when I start to replace my current satellite system (start out with LCR rather than buying everything at once unless I can find something reasonable). Thinking about something like Klipsch, but I haven't been to and demo rooms yet. There's a best Buy Magnolia store about 1/2 hour away, though when my bank account recovers.
Every situation is different. Gotta do what you can when you can! 🤘
Thanks for the vids. I have a 5.1 speaker setup but my AVR is old so I'm about to upgrade it to something that supports Atmos. I've been researching the best options for my scenario, and have watched your vid on Atmos speaker placement, but I'm in the unfortunate situation of my couch being against the back wall (so my surrounds are just slightly behind me). Could you consider a vid on Atmos speaker placement for people whose couch is against the back wall? That is, is there any point to a 5.1.4 setup, given that the Atmos speakers can only be directly above (near the back wall) and/or in front of me? Or should I just go for a 5.1.2 setup with the Atmos speakers directly above the couch near the back wall?
The best Atmos experience is when you create a cube of audio. And I know having your couch against the wall doesn’t allow you to be in the middle of the cube, BUT…that’s still going to be superior to having only 2 height channels. If you have 2 mounted straight above your couch, and two mounted above the TV next to the ceiling, that still allows for audio objects to move freely back and forth within that cube, as the mixing engineers intended. 🤘
@@ealanosborne thanks for your thoughts on that. For a 5.1.4 setup I'm considering the Onkyo TX-NR7100, which, in Australia, costs around $1,700. I know it can't be expanded but I don't see myself needing anything more than 5.1.4 any time soon. Unless there's a different entry level 9.2 AVR you would recommend instead? Cheers.
Ealan awesome video.
You should do a video on whether there is a difference with 5.1.4 vs 7.1.4.
Great idea! 🤘
The placement of the ceiling Atmos speakers is incorrect on what they have online. The Dolby Atmos Technical Guidelines are much better at showing the angles. It depends on your ceiling height and are not in line with the front speakers.
Is 13 X 25 considered a large room for a home theater? Please and thank you. Love your videos
I would say so, yeah! My testing theater can sometimes feel a bit cramped, and it’s 11 x 16, so those two extra feet on the side and 9 extra feet in length would make a big difference in my book! 🤘
@@ealanosborne I am trying to decide which sub to buy. Sonos sub Gen 3 or the sub mini. I’m not sure which one to buy compared to the size of my room. What do you think?
@@mdwitt714 Sonos Sub Gen 3, for sure. The thing about good low frequencies is that they should ultimately pressurize the room completely. A room that length might even need two Sonos Subs - but that’s expensive! 😬
hi,is 5.1 (not 5.1.2)atmos better than 9.1(7.1 plus height) truehd?Worth the 3/4 x price difference?
Ealan you kind of touch on this is several video’s but still a little unclear. I have to have my sofa against the wall but want to do the best I can with a 5.1.2 or 5.1.4 set up. For Wife approval we are going with in ceiling for rears and atmos speakers. In doing so would you recommend the rear in ceiling speakers go as close to the wall as possible? Then with the rears in place what would be the general rule for .2 and .4 atmos speaker placement in relation? Thanks for any info you can provide and keep up the great work!
I’d put the in-ceiling speakers straight above you. That’ll be the most versatile, whether you start with .2 or move on to .4 eventually. If and when you do .4, just add front heights above the TV! 🙌
@@ealanosborne Thanks for the fast reply. To clarify, place the rear surrounds in ceilings close to the wall then the .2 above the seating position? Is there a distance between the two I need to take into consideration? Then if expand to .4 just add above the TV?
I was wondering what kind of receiver I shall purchase to support the 5.1.4 setup
I currently have a 5.1 and plan to upgrade to 5.1.4.
This is my issue I have my front surrounds in the right and left corners of the 8 foot high ceiling, and my rears are on the back corner wall slightly behind the primary listening area.
I was planning to mount 2 speakers to the left and right of the TV closer to ear level and switch them to my fronts, add height speakers half way between the fronts and backs, and use the original ceiling high fronts as my second set of height speakers. What do you think.
If I’m understanding your layout correctly, it sounds like you’re planning on doing what I did in my previous home: There were 4 in-ceiling speakers and one center speaker already installed as part of a 5.1 system. Then once I got more speakers and a 9 channel AVR, the in-ceilings became the height speakers and I mounted 4 other speakers closer to ear level. Do what you can with what you have, am I right? 😄
@@ealanosborne You are correct except my four speakers are mounted high in each corner of the room not in the ceiling. My rear speakers are on the wall slightly behind the main seating area. I brought 2 pairs of the Klipsch reference speakers, they have the upward firing height speakers built in. Now I admit they do sound good, but the upward firing thing does not work for me, I need something more dynamic which is what I am hoping to get when I add my two or four mid height speakers. But first I need to pull some speaker wire through the walls. Wish me luck.
@@michaeltobler649 Good luck! 😁🤘
@@ealanosborne In the last 3 months I have upgraded my receiver to the Onkyo rz50 and added 4 speakers to upgrade my system to 5.2.4. 6 of my speakers are ceiling height (7ft.) with one in each corner and 2 speakers located between them, with the exception my fronts that are ear level. So basically 6 up top and 3 in front of me
In the back of the Onkyo it has Height 1, Surround, and Surround back. How should I set these up for the best Dolby Atmos sound effects.
Got 7.1.4 system and I always prefer dts x rather than atmos and dts master rather than dolby digital
I'm in a tiny space, 10x12, couch on the wall. I've temporaraly put some above in the back l/r area. If they are not pointed down you basically don't hear them. I have an old receiver at the moment.
One though is near field speakers in the wall right behind you, turn them way down but be balanced. Or tuned for that spot. Just a thought. it could be a wow or frown, not sure. Maybe a mock up to test it is needed.
What are you thought on in wall speakers that close? Does it even make sense or will be be distracting. I think if it's tuned or attenuated properly it could work. I know many systems are setup for a few different listeners in slightly different spots. Then again if it's not the sweet spot then it doesn't matter. When friends come over, i push them over ;) i mean they always get the spot
Yeah, in-walls could work. But I agree with you that some much needed adjustments need to be made in order to have balance in such a situation. 🤘
@@ealanosborne Thanks, i'm usually stuck in a compromise that needs a creative solution with a small place. Audio is fun.
@@scoobtoober2975 Oof…I hear ya. Equal parts fun and frustrating, at times. 😄
I will probably be building a 7.2.4 HT setup in next few months, I already have a SONY HT in box 5.1 setup.
Can I use 4 speakers from this config as ceiling speakers,? (they all have same imepdance/watt ratings)
I will be spending money mainly on Front Speakers and a decent AMP + Pre amp, don't want to put money in Ceiling speakers if I can use existing 4 from my old setup.
Let me know if this makes a difference.
Yeah, speakers are speakers (as long as they’re passive, and not powered). I’ve known some people who get the Klipsch 5.1 Theater Pack (since it’s so cheap) and use the 4 satellite speakers for height channels. Your Sony setup sounds like the same idea. 👍
@@ealanosborne Thanks for the reply! Love your content ✌