ESRB: “No, it’s not Simulated Gambling, that’s why it’s rated E for Everyone.” Also ESRB: “Hey, you were wrong about Pokémon, we rated it E for Everyone even though it had Simulated Gambling.” 🤔
I imagine when Pokémon was rated E for everyone, simulated gambling didn’t automatically constitute a Teen rating, whereas now it does. Not saying they aren’t corrupt or that it shouldn’t be Teen rating but that’s just my theory
@Chaz Monzter Exactly what i got from theyr response, but im still concerned on the effect of loot boxes and packs on young childreen, that is the only real problem whit this things every day they keep on existing we see more and more cases of kids spending tons of theyr parents money.
Why doesn't the ESRB just play the games? "an hour long video" Are you kidding me? You know....the gaming community; TH-camrs, consumers, reviewers would probably be willing to help with the ratings for games. If you ask nicely. It could be a cumulative, cooperative effort.
PingerSurprise This is the same group of people who allow Assassins creed Odyssey to show giant Penises (however you spell it) yet bans a game (watch dogs 2) for showing a low detail inconspicuous vagina in their game! Because it’s okay for a child to see a giant DICK but not a vagina?! Can someone explain this? YES ESRB I’m look at you! Or anyone can anyone explain to me why this is the case?!
MORTAL KOMBAT!!!! How far they have fallen from stopping parents complaining about violent video games... to just ignoring everyone cause they care about money!!!
@singularon1 They were. Remember the only reason ESRB exists is because the Karens of the world complained about video games turning their kids into serial killers.
*_"iT's lIkE baSEBaLl cARdS."_* 1. I don't need a $60 annual membership to the store that sells baseball cards. 2. Baseball cards can be traded, sold, exchanged in barter, etc... 3. Baseball cards don't lose all value when a new set gets printed. 4. Baseball cards are a limited commodity where the restricted supply is relevant. 5. If I need a specific baseball card for my collection, I can look for someone selling that specific card. I could continue, but I think everyone gets the point.
If I start an illegal Poker Game in my basement, in a state or country in the USA were it is illegal... it become legal the instant I replace the poker cards with Baseball cards and use those instead? Star pitchers are Ace, Holographics are Wilds :P
Also, imo baseball cards *should* be restricted. Like, you have to be at least ten to buy them. In any way, it's not the ESRB's job to regulate baseball cards so they're only doing themselves a disservice by making comparisons to it.
I'm against government regulation because I don't trust our Politicians with more control over our lives, but I swear these game companies are practically begging for it.
The problem with this industry is related to addiction. I don't understand why the players don't like to talk about this, lol Maybe we feel ashamed of it? idk, but I do know how this hobby can become an addiction for some. Any game, a Zelda game can addict you as same as a casino game. How many cases you know of people who played 100% of breath of the wild in a weekend for example? This is a case of addiction, the person gets obsessed with the product for a period of time. Or Fifa (as a foreigner, I know this disease pretty well), this is a great example because it unites the 2 major audiences: The person who invest money into the game and the person who plays a match every day for about an hour... Both are addicts in my pov. So, following this nature of the hobby, it was obvious gambling would become a major part of it, also to buy "extra" stuff (dlcs, season pass, etc). People want to keep playing, to do that they need to keep paying. So, the problem is with the addicts, the game industry only provides the product... If you want to get the product, if you are weak to a point of becoming an addict... that's on you.
@@RRRRRRRRR33 anything can be addictive in that case, since getting a compliment from someone releases dopamine... except the amount of dopamine released by addictive drugs is 100x times that
@FullTimeSlacker ummmm.... if you are an organization tasked with knowing at least SOME of the contents of the game... YOU COULD AT LEAST GET THE OPINION OF PLAYERS! I mean, you don't have to play the full game... but do more than "NOT PLAYING THE GAME AT ALL"! And besides, you know very well they could play MORE games (at least the ones that are supposed to be "AAA").
@FullTimeSlacker Movie and music reviewers have been doing it for years. It is possible. Yes it takes time. They are just being generic and lazy about the job, ratings, and descriptors that they hold a monopoly over. You are part of the problem agreeing they should continue the level of fuckery that they are already doing. Fuck all that. If they can't do the job, there are plenty of people that 100% can.
Amd he would win that case. If he didnt sell drugs for money, then he didnt sell drugs. However, he would probably go to prison for consumption of that drug, assuming he did consume it
ESRB needs to die they are useless in the digital era, any child can get a M rated game nowadays, even my parents bought me violent games when i was a kid. The 90s and early 2000s are over.
@@kushweiser lol kids nowadays know how to get games their parents wont buy them anyways. ESRB is just an irrelevant rating system grasping on by straws before their buisness finally collapses
"There is no gamble." Why don't they have poker tables for kids at casinos where they play for monopoly money? It's not gambling if they're using monopoly money.
It is still gambling. It's still gambling if you're betting using candy corn. The "gamble" is the price you pay to win or lose. You still have to put monopoly money in the pot to win or lose.
ESRB: "it is not simulated gambling if you don't wage currency" Joe: "what about lootboxes?" ESRB: "it is not gambling if you always get 'something' in return" Remember, if you gamble all your money away, but the casino clerk gives you a pack of matches for your time and money, it is not gambling!
Most casinos, in small towns and cities anyway, give you free drinks while you are gambling... At this point video games are casinos with night club doormen demanding entree fees!
@FullTimeSlacker??? How have they become an idiot, I'm pretty sure saying that because you get something back in return, it's not gambling is the idiotic item in the room, that's a stupid thing to say, and I get the analogy could be better but it's on the mark.
The only thing the ESRB cares about is the same thing conservative Christians care about in this country... Sex, Violence, and Dirty Words. Everything else is kosher... "Pretty lights and colors can't hurt people. Plus there's money involved! And money is the best thing on the planet!"
Walks into casino for the first time at 21 and looks at the slot machines. Me "ah, so this is gambling" Security guard ESRB "in all my 25 years of working here, I have not once heard that term, how dare you... these are adult arcade games. See how the pull bar is bent backwards and not forwards? Me "yeah... I guess..." ESRB- "arcade games by regulation. Learn your facts kid"
"If it looks like gambling, feels like gambling, sounds like gambling, and EVEN smells like gambling. Its not gambling by our 25 year old standards..."
Bravo. They're contradicting themselves! Slot machines =/= gambling, guns =/= violence, sex scenes =/= sexual content. GTA should be E for Everyone too, then.
I see what you are getting at but it's not quite the same. The problem is that violence is a universal word/definition that has been around for hundreds of years so they can't decide what counts as violence and not they have to go but the definition. Simulated gambling is a new word that only really applies to virtual items. (Movies/Games) As such there is not set universal word/definition that applies to it. Meaning in the ESRB's eyes they can decide what counts and what doesn't. The simplest way to fix this is to have a universal definition of "simulated gambling". I should add that i in no way agree with the ESRB but i also don't think it's entirely their fault.
ESRB / PEGI and most nations use independent assessors and don't review the games or play them, its independent contractors... Australian government response was "Authorised Assessor Computer Games (AACG) Scheme to classify NBA 2k20, wherein a games industry assessor recommended a general classification with consumer advice of ‘online interactivity’, having indicated in the written report that there were no classifiable elements"
"If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck... it's not a duck, because our criteria dictates that it has to be in the neighbourhood of a pond to be considered a duck." - ESRB
Something huge missing here, there’s an in game mode call “Ante Up” in NBA 2k20 where you gamble your “VC” and bet on you winning the game against other players. Is that not gambling?
I think this is where gamer will "lose". We gamers simply does not understand the legal definition of what constitutes as gambling. SidAlpha have raised this concerns, that we gamers simply are not prepared to fight this battle.
@@Corpsehorser which won't work, because normies are seriously outnumbering us in terms of buying power. Just look at how thriving mobile gaming is right now
They use an excuse that you always get something at least. The problem is the item you want is several times more harder to acquire unless you throw money at it or play an unrealistic amount of time before they pump out another game next year that does the same shit.
@@goonerOZZ If tobacco companies can be forced to stop using advertising that make cigarettes look too "cool" to kids, then I think the government can be panicked into doing the same with gambling.
AJ: "Slot machines give free spins in casinos to hook people, how does that not represent gambling?" ESRB: "We look at context - a spinning wheel may be random, but there is no gamble." Everybody: "THERE'S A LITERAL SLOT MACHINE IN THEIR PROMOTIONAL MATERIAL!" ESRB: "That's not a slot machine, it's a virtualized lever-actuated random prize distribution apparatus."
"This is simulated gambling." "No, there's no real money involved." "What about loot boxes?" "They're like baseball cards." "Baseball cards are not contingent with you pre-paying to purchase. You don't have to first buy tickets to a baseball game in order to buy baseball cards. They're independent of the larger game of baseball. And while the contents of a pack of baseball cards are random, and everyone knows this, they also do not effect the game of baseball. It's not like the more packs of cards sold, the better the players on those cards play, or the more options available to customize their uniform so their fans can more easily pay attention to them, or to boost their confidence when playing, or whatever. But loot boxes and timesavers and other monetized elements in modern games do just that: they alter the way the game is played. These could be as minor as the way the character looks (which provides feedback in the way the player responds to the game and the avatar in use) to providing ways to circumvent or skip entirely "boring" sections of a game to get to the more desirable gameplay elements so the player has 'more fun' playing the more they spend. That is not like baseball cards. That would be more like car races where you can only improve your performance by spending money to get a random selection of car parts, some of which might provide the boost to performance you desire, maybe, some of the time. Any real-world system that worked that way would have been shut down or regulated fiercely LONG ago, but in games--and there are currently racing video games which use a system similar to what I just described--they're fine. It's 'not gambling.' Because the definition of gambling says so. Maybe it's time to redefine gambling. And it's definitely time to reexamine the criteria used when rating games."
But nba2k20 literally has a game mode in the park called ante up, a gambling term. This game mode allows players to take VC "virtual currency" which is purchasable with real life money and gamble it against another player. Winner gets the VC and loser, loses there VC. Is this not the literal definition of gambling
They never actually played the game so they have no idea what ante up is. Or that they have ATMs on the wall inside it you can buy VC from lol. They all just jump on the same bandwagon together to monetize the subject for themselves without providing a solid arguement. I'm not surprised this happened because they are like the girl crying wolf for attention. Now we the townspeople, have to kill the wolf they helped the ESRB ignore. Crying gambling at free to play randomized rewards, ignorant to what is actually happening in game.
Well, putting your money on the line isn't considered gambling in a legal sense. Because the game (basketball) is based on skill not luck. There's been an endless discussion if poker is gambling or not. In the end they decided that it's more of a skill based game, that's why you can play poker online for real money in the US.
@@MacrosBlack360 This isn't real basketball. The people wagering the vitual currency are different ages, have different builds, amounts of boosts, and internet speeds. They are playing other people in different states. You can bet money to play poker online but it's with other people over 18 years of age. Certain states like Washington, don't allow betting money in online poker regardless. Even if this was skill based, which I believe it isn't entirely. You still have children betting with adults.
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@@MacrosBlack360 bro nobody wants to hear legal shit at all tht argument is so wishy washy
@@miketerele1584 Good point, I didn't think of that. And you can buy ingame currency for real money, right? If so I agree, the game shouldn't be played by kids.
Yea but then they'd have to pay people to do actual work. Why pay someone to play a game for potentially 100+ HOURS when they could instead just watch a 100 MINUTE video of said game?
@@atanasdobrinov8008 I completely agree with you, but Steam doesnt do alot to prevent kids from owning M-Rated games, so I dont see PC being affected by the ESRB, my parents knew I was buying games, they just didnt know which so the whole "M-Rated" thing never affected me. (This is anecdotal ofcourse)
wow they do, so that is of course not gambling as they do not pay for it to win something was just the same thing i was thinking when free spin is not gambling. Maybe it could count as an open beta gambling, as its only to test the systems so no win or lose
AJ: "Why are you rating a gambling game E for Everyone?! 😕" ESRB:"Steeeep right up and spin The Wheel of Answers to find out! First spin is free!🤑" AJ: "Nice try....😒" ESRB:".... Had it all set up and everything.... 😞"
Casinos offer free spins to first time visitors or even a certain amount of spins “equivalent” to let’s say 50 bucks. Yet no kid under 18 can even be around one of those machines even if free. I wish we could all self regulate our businesses. This is like letting a drug addict run his/her own pharmacy
And apparently casinos dont even need gambling licenses now. Just give every loser a penny back and its not a gamble any more, they always get something.
Sounds like they're saying "If they aren't literally spending money to gamble, it's not simulated gambling." Which is correct, at that point it's not simulated gambling, it's just gambling.
They are saying when you buy a lootbox, you will ALWAYS get a product and will never lose the money your bought it with. You might not get what you wanted(will most likely not get what you wanted) but thats why its like trading cards from Yu-gi-oh to Magic. Its a loophole they are abusing
@@imo098765 So if a Casino gave you back different loser casino chips when you lose that have no objective value, would they no longer be considered gambling?
@@Edax_Royeaux If you buy a product that has a base value and you are always guaranteed that base value then you arent technically wagering that money because you always get what that money is worth. In that situation you can never leave with less value than what your original purchase was but the value is decided by someone else who is trying to make as much money possible. How much that should be worth is another discussion when a skin is worth a third of a brand new AAA complete game. Or more than an Indie game. Gambling in a casino when you enter to win money and you leave with objectively less money than what you started with, a chip equates an exact real money figure. While what is the exact value of a lootbox content, the publishers have already scammed people thinking the worst outcome is the value of a single lootbox
@@imo098765 But you can equally claim that a funko pop has as much value as a casino chip as it's the same colorful plastic. So they can make it that if you lose at Blackjack, you are "buying" loser casino chips and claim playing blackjack is the same as buying a funko pop, only when a added chance of randomly winning a special bonus item (more casino chips).
@@imo098765 In M:TG you pay for the pack itself which has value on its own. A pack of alpha has risen in price. Other have dropped. You still buy something of value and you still get something of value when you open the pack. In videogames, you do not buy a pack, the pack doesn't exist, you buy a gamble. The pack doesn't have value. It cannot be stored. It is gambling pure and simple. Is that so hard to understand?
ESRB: its not gambling, u dont understand what gambling really is. AAA Game Company: yes...good...good keep lying to them for us and we will keep ur pockets filled with money.....(evil laugh ensues).
To be fair, they do also say in the same email that it’s due to the context of a situation that ultimately alters the rating. The issue is because they refuse to recognize the distinction between loot boxes and gambling.
@@ariesthagemini6526 You're putting in your TIME into the game for a game of chance to get something good. Its gambling your time for potential rewards. Simulated Gambling.
The problem is, that it isn't, as per word of law. Since you can't pull money from the system. Aka they are going to use the law as an excuse to pass off this absolute garbage to kids.
@@rmcdaniel2424 Ain't that basically pokemon tcgo? Because the difference is you're allowed to trade and it's a game that you don't have to start over every single year? If so, it's a far cry to NBA. Also, the NBA backlash is pretty much to the broken gameplay while 'surprise' mechanics are just fine.
me towards the ESRB: yep, and the "free spin" is all part of the real gambling: the card packs, which CAN be bought with real money and which do yield random rewards with a jackpot bait like Messi or LeBron James to lure gambling addicts and kids in!
"time savers" "it's just cosmetic" "it's optional" "Live services" "Insert payment method for next meme" "Insert payment method for next meme" "You have no more funds. Please insert another payment method"
I'm calling it right now. Next years (not)assassins creed "R.P.G" game will upstage break point. I knew they turned it into an online open world action R.P.G hack and slasher. From a stealth based linear action adventure to monetize it to the max. The last 2 games were just 4play.
I love how the ESRB thought that this was going to help them but, in my eyes, its like a bank robber letting a cop know his logic behind robbing a bank.
Hey Joe, Other Joe, and Delrith and co. For giving voice to the people! Much appreciated, it's very cool that your channel has a loud enough voice that ESRB has to respond, their usual reality denialism notwithstanding.
"We've been doing it this way for 25 years" *_LADY!_* That's... kind of... the problem. _1994?_ The SNES came out in 1990... Read: Their guidelines, were created in response to SNES/Genesis games... Yeah, those will be useful... >.>
Alolan Vulpix Getting Railed he was similar to angry joe and Jim sterling when it came into ripping into shady game practices. He was my personal favorite out of these type of content creators
Alolan Vulpix Getting Railed he was duing what angry and few others do but much better, there is still his tag on steam that works as seal of approval or disapproval. If you didnt hear about him it means you are young as he died few years ago.
ESRB should put that rating on themselves apparently. Incompetent, corrupt pieces of shit. Bet EA threw them a billion to never make lootboxes have a proper rating.
@@evasan9432 The game is built around simulated gambling that is the problem man. I agree with Joe that children (many of them) are not able to understand what things are actually worth. They don't work, they don't make money. In order to get the content they desire (which is on the disc already) they could spend hundreds or thousands of dollars to get the Lebron James they want. Comparing people who eat dry wall and a gambling addict is the worst false equivalent I have ever heard. We should be trying to treat gambling addicts so they don't ruin their lives being prayed upon by corporations that don't care about them or their loved ones. Nobody benefits from somebody eating fucking drywall. Yes, I do think people who get addicted to gambling are not bright, but that doesn't make it okay to say 'fuck 'em, let them give all their money to the rich who don't need it'. Gamers don't need to be left out to dry because companies that publish games turned gaming into a racket for gambling addicts because that makes more money. Kids don't need to be introduced to gambling!
About the baseball card comparison: When you get a valuable baseball card, there is monetary value to it, and it can last you a lifetime. When you open a pack for a sports game, even if it’s valuable for the time, it’s for a yearly release and yields no true return on investment. Because of this, you could argue that’s even worse than normal gambling, and highlights the fact that it’s predatory.
Also, big difference to me, there are thousands of places to go to buy the exact card you want without having to buy a pack. If I only want a single card or two, i can get them. These games dont allow me any method to get the thing i want for a single set price or a set market value.
To add to the baseball card comparison, you have multiple ways to acquire baseball cards too. You can buy the packs with random cards, or you can use second-hand stores to buy the exact card you want. However, when it comes to these types of loot box games you are forced to buy the random loot boxes because it's the only option available to you. It's completely disingenuous for these companies to compare card packs to loot boxes.
The ESRB's primary job is to appear as though they are an unbiased rating agency, while protecting the ability of game companies to make as much money as possible while having no actual moral limitations (but to make it appear as though there are).
I would have definitely said John Bain (TotalBiscuit) but, obviously, we can't have that. So YoungYea is a good enough substitute. Although George of SuperBunnyHop would be a better substitute.
I couldn't agree with you more. It's been a joke these last God knows how many years. At this rate I wouldn't be surprised if in 20 years time (if the earth isn't dead that is) that when you purchase your next Fifa football game you have to hand over £500, your kidney and they get to stick a pineapple where the sun doesn't shine. While the idiot kids reply with "thank you so much! It'll be better this year! I just know it!"
@@cjthelonewolf7410 here comes the money (here we go, money talks) here comes the money, money, money, money, money, money, money, money, money (dolla dolla, dolla dolla)
What i get from this is: they don't play the games they rate There is no accountability for companies for lying or going against regulations There is no way to know if people in the gaming industry are part of the rating system because they keep these identities completely secret. They approve of underage gambling, as pokemon has proved. "Companies make a game with a rating in mind" and then you give them that rating based off a sales pitch rather than actual product testing. They believe parents are too stupid to bother informing. They believe their rating system has no actual impact in the real world, so it doesn't matter anyway (their comments on rated M games) And lastly, their PR representative is extremely flexible, to be able to kick her own ass by swallowing her own foot whole.
Precisely! To me, loot box games are like buying a 15 year old luxury car. It looks great on the outside, but you drive it for a little while, and it starts to break down...
You forgot that according to the ESRB my putting my dick in a pie increases the monetary value of said pie allowing them to cut it into slices to sell for all the money in the world!
ESRB: "...we're always looking into how we can enhance the rating system..." Me: When's the last time you updated your rating system? ESRB: 25 years ago 😕 I'm so confused ...
But they have. They changed the rules on violence to be much more strict. Now you can't have a game like Zelda OoT with an E rating, but you can have real money gambling...
Free spins is like a drug dealer giving you a free sample, I guess the ESRB is ok with kids getting free drugs but once they pay for them its not ok lol....
I think that with ea it would be more like: EA: "How much for making AJ shut up?" ESRB: "You have to purchase price tag separately for 20$. Or you can buy price tag lootboxes for only 1.99$ per 1 unit. There is a 0.0001% chance of getting a decent price tag from one of those. There are also price tag season pass and price tag PRO DELUXE season pass for only 59$ and 119$"
"...there's no sound argument that supports the theory that having a more restrictive rating on its own negatively impacts commercial sales of a game." Okay, make all games which include gambling M or AO+ (check local laws for legal gambling age) and see what happens.
It wouldn't effect Fifa, maybe basketball games where you have a smaller market. Ratings don't stop kids playing games. Spend 5 minutes on GTA and most of the lobby is young teens or children.
Exactly. They are not baseball cards or Kinder surprise eggs and the like. They are worse. Buying physical cards, we can do whatever we want with them after we get them. Basically we can wipe our asses with them if we wanted to or assemble curtains from them or rewrite the rules et cetera. With digital cards, they are good only as far as they are coded to go to in their coded environment. Their intented purpose is so narrow that the results we experience gets equally emphasised; becoming extremely meaningful. This means that the definition doesn't have to match in order for us to experience the same predicament of addicts - but exponentially worse, and addicts get their usual dose even bigger.
Thanks for trying Joe. I'm glad somebody is trying to do something about these predatory micro transactions. ESRB's definition of simulated gambling is senseless. Paying REAL money for loot boxes or card packs that give you random rewards is clearly gambling. The mental gymnastics they go through to try to justify it is pathetic. You can thank 2K's lobbyist and PR team for obviously paying off or bullying the ESRB.
Everyone that cares: Thank you Joe and everyone at AJS for your continued effort in protecting the games we love from corporate laziness, greed, and overall corruption. Corporate Commander: SHUT UP AND GIVE ME MORE MONEY!
From the research I have done, I have yet to see that. Could you link me the site that shows them as T for Teen (unless you are being sarcastic)? Thank you very much.
Then why is Borderlands 3 listed as including gambling then? The only reason I can see ingame for the gambling parental tag, are the slot machines inside Moxxi's bar, and it doesn't include any use of real world currency.
KID: mom can I get $10 so I can get my favorite character in the game?? MOM: here’s $10 Moments later.... KID: mom can I get another $10, I didn’t get the character I wanted.... This kid is now a member of gamblers anonymous.....
@@HardcoreGator If only that WAS the end in every case. Let's not forget some kids have flat-out stolen their parents' credit cards to by more lootboxes.
Gold Wade How did they get the game in the first place though? How did they get to the point where they’re feeling the need to steal from their parents to buy loot boxes? They didn’t buy one or two loot boxes and next thing ya know they’re committing theft. Parents play the main role here. Let’s not kid ourselves. The parent who gives their child unfettered access to purchase loot boxes at their whim and will is not going to care if the game is rated Teen or Mature in the first place. How else are 12 year olds all over GTA Online and CoD?
Watching your channel makes me want to be more genuinely creative because it’s what’s needed to fix money grabs where what’s popular and marketable replaces what’s creative and genuine
*Thousands of words of BS later* "It won't make a difference" So you typed all that BS out when it would not affect the games if you rated them appropriately and gave parents more information about the games they buy? *BET.*
I think that's where the separation is. Their reasoning. "Loot boxes always contain a reward" "Gambling can have no return with no win" When loot boxes contain filler created to fake rewards. Also card packs are physical items and cost no where near loot boxes and are permanently yours where loot boxes are lost when a games server is discontinued
Exactly. This is exactly how these games are getting away with this. If there was a chance of wagering and getting nothing back then they would be in trouble. ESRP needs an update or nothing will ever change.
Yeah there are gambling machines that always give something back no? If the lottery always gives you a trillionth of a cent back to everyone that plays is that not gambling anymore lmao
@@Unknownpony If you gamble 100 dollars and they gave you a cent back, you still would have gambled away 99.99 dollars. You can't trade a 100 dollars for a penny.
To... Inform buyers? Like I'm sorry but the phrasing of this implies that the ESRB is supposed to be rating games so they sell less copies. Just because a game is rated M doesn't mean it will sell less, if only because adults are the ones who buy the majority of video games. It's there to say "Hey, you wanna get this for your kid? Well before you do make sure you know what's in the game!" Even if they don't do a great job of this
The biggest problem like Joe pointed out is that the ESRB decides what "simulated gambling" is. When it should be that there is a up to date universal definition of what simulated gambling is. I quoting a comment here. BoostandaHalf 13 hours ago " When you make the rules, there are no rules. " Which is true, at any point the ESRB could say that a game doesn't meet X definition because they decide what that definition is so at any time that definition can change. This is why universal definitions are made and if needed changed to meet the ever changing world. They are not set in stone but they also aren't decided by one group.
16x times the detail quote almost killed me... Thank you guys for not letting this be, even if they can cause problems to you. You are kind of heroes that world needs like hell during these corporate scumbag times.
@@TheMusicMan1012 They have to gamble In order to get the Profit , That's the way the system works now, You will even have to gamble in order to get your Pay check now , It's a pokemon go , but you gamble before you cross the street lol
A game that offers a "free" spin on a simulated gambling mechanic is THE SAME as a casino giving some coins at the entrance of said casino so people get hooked/addicted to gaming. IT'S WRONG! IT'S SNEAKY! IT'S PREDATORIAL!
georgekostaras I get your point but it’s not “simulated currency”. You can go up to a machine and literally slip in real world money to gamble on them. The entire point of exchanging money for chips is psychological. It’s proven that people are more likely to gamble more with chips than real world money because your brain sees chips less important than actual cash.
@@RomnysGonzalez Funny enough you spend enough at casinos they comp you shit as well. Holy shit its better just to actually go to a casino and gamble in reality than it is to do it in games like NBA.. Fucking A thats sad.
"There's no evidence that the rating of the game impacts the sales" Unless we give you the AO kiss of death effectively banning you from all consoles digital storefronts and store shelves.
Even then, a lot of AO games have actually been successful. While they're not going to rest on the shelves with all the other best-sellers at Walmart, the notoriety of being one of the few AO rated games usually draws a bit of attention.
Yes, Even though NBA 2k20 contains games of chance and even a slot machine in which should constitute _simulated_ gambling, but the card packs should also make thd game constitute *real gambling* because they take real-world currency (even if its an indirect transaction) and its not certain what youll get the player you want from opening them, so the only way to get a player you desire (assuming you can't buy him/her directly) is to buy a pack and hope you get lucky. Angry Joe shouldve demanded the ESRB to rerate the game AO and I'm absolutely baffled he hadnt noticed his mistake.
This is great and I love what you're trying to do here. That said, the panic whenever the highlighter dude got behind and had to scroll and then catch up and sometimes lost place had me wheezing.
ESRB: “No, it’s not Simulated Gambling, that’s why it’s rated E for Everyone.”
Also ESRB: “Hey, you were wrong about Pokémon, we rated it E for Everyone even though it had Simulated Gambling.”
🤔
and simulated animal fighting... nintendo gets away with the best stuff XD
Sonic games have casino levels and slot machines. Are those gambling ESRB?
Them punctuating that by saying no pokemon game has ever been rated over E just makes that scream even more of corruption.
I imagine when Pokémon was rated E for everyone, simulated gambling didn’t automatically constitute a Teen rating, whereas now it does. Not saying they aren’t corrupt or that it shouldn’t be Teen rating but that’s just my theory
Exactly! WTF!
"It's not simulated gambling."
I honestly agree, it is real gambling
Do you win money? If so its gambling.
Magic the gathering arena isn't considered gambling. Its online too
@@rmcdaniel2424 the definition of gambling doesn't specify money just that it is something if value.
@@rmcdaniel2424 if you win anything of value not just money.
@Chaz Monzter Loot boxes are like that claw machine in Walmart. It's not illegal in that context.
@Chaz Monzter Exactly what i got from theyr response, but im still concerned on the effect of loot boxes and packs on young childreen, that is the only real problem whit this things every day they keep on existing we see more and more cases of kids spending tons of theyr parents money.
ESRB: "It's not simulated gambling if it's actual gambling"
@easy eevee Of course it is🤣
make sense...
Why doesn't the ESRB just play the games? "an hour long video" Are you kidding me?
You know....the gaming community; TH-camrs, consumers, reviewers would probably be willing to help with the ratings for games. If you ask nicely. It could be a cumulative, cooperative effort.
PingerSurprise
This is the same group of people who allow Assassins creed Odyssey to show giant Penises (however you spell it) yet bans a game (watch dogs 2) for showing a low detail inconspicuous vagina in their game! Because it’s okay for a child to see a giant DICK but not a vagina?! Can someone explain this? YES ESRB I’m look at you! Or anyone can anyone explain to me why this is the case?!
W
Joe: “Isn’t this simulated gambling?”
ESRB: “Well yes, but actually no”
LMAO
Some sort of a jedi mind trick is at play here i think. This is not the simulated gambling ESRB's looking for.
Lootboxes are not simulated gambling. They are gambling. There is nothing 'simulating' about it.
Based on the rules we just made up
If those nickle slots that grandmas play always paid out 1¢ it would cease to be gambling to the ESRB.
ESRB is Confused.
ESRB hurt themselves in their confusion.
It's super effective!
@@davoap1268 you know youre sad when hitting yourself in the face with typeless confusion damage is super effective
@@davoap1268 what type would it have to be if it was super effective...
*Useless type.*
That's the idea.
These are confusing times!
ESRB: "We're always improving out process"
Also ESRB: "We're rating the games by standards set 25 years ago"
k then
MORTAL KOMBAT!!!! How far they have fallen from stopping parents complaining about violent video games... to just ignoring everyone cause they care about money!!!
Yup, they are just saying what we want to hear.
@singularon1 They were. Remember the only reason ESRB exists is because the Karens of the world complained about video games turning their kids into serial killers.
Looks like it’s time for a re-evaluation of the process. Lol
TheJoern
Exactly!!
*_"iT's lIkE baSEBaLl cARdS."_*
1. I don't need a $60 annual membership to the store that sells baseball cards.
2. Baseball cards can be traded, sold, exchanged in barter, etc...
3. Baseball cards don't lose all value when a new set gets printed.
4. Baseball cards are a limited commodity where the restricted supply is relevant.
5. If I need a specific baseball card for my collection, I can look for someone selling that specific card.
I could continue, but I think everyone gets the point.
Baseball cards landmark court case was in the United States... surprisingly it does NOT apply to the REST OF THE WORLD!!!
False equivalency, like when EA tried to compare loot boxes (surprise mechanics) to a kinder egg. Fuck off EA.
If I start an illegal Poker Game in my basement, in a state or country in the USA were it is illegal... it become legal the instant I replace the poker cards with Baseball cards and use those instead? Star pitchers are Ace, Holographics are Wilds :P
Also, imo baseball cards *should* be restricted. Like, you have to be at least ten to buy them. In any way, it's not the ESRB's job to regulate baseball cards so they're only doing themselves a disservice by making comparisons to it.
Absolute truth right there.
"We're doing something that's not _technically_ illegal until it's made illegal"
That's the problem with the games industry
Days Gaming that’s the problem with companies in general
I'm against government regulation because I don't trust our Politicians with more control over our lives, but I swear these game companies are practically begging for it.
The problem with this industry is related to addiction. I don't understand why the players don't like to talk about this, lol Maybe we feel ashamed of it? idk, but I do know how this hobby can become an addiction for some. Any game, a Zelda game can addict you as same as a casino game. How many cases you know of people who played 100% of breath of the wild in a weekend for example? This is a case of addiction, the person gets obsessed with the product for a period of time. Or Fifa (as a foreigner, I know this disease pretty well), this is a great example because it unites the 2 major audiences: The person who invest money into the game and the person who plays a match every day for about an hour... Both are addicts in my pov. So, following this nature of the hobby, it was obvious gambling would become a major part of it, also to buy "extra" stuff (dlcs, season pass, etc). People want to keep playing, to do that they need to keep paying. So, the problem is with the addicts, the game industry only provides the product... If you want to get the product, if you are weak to a point of becoming an addict... that's on you.
@@RRRRRRRRR33 anything can be addictive in that case, since getting a compliment from someone releases dopamine... except the amount of dopamine released by addictive drugs is 100x times that
now gambling is different because it's something that takes money, so I see where I'd like to keep that out of games. I love video games
"It takes too long to do our job properly, so we're not doing it" - ESRB
@FullTimeSlacker ummmm.... if you are an organization tasked with knowing at least SOME of the contents of the game...
YOU COULD AT LEAST GET THE OPINION OF PLAYERS!
I mean, you don't have to play the full game... but do more than "NOT PLAYING THE GAME AT ALL"!
And besides, you know very well they could play MORE games (at least the ones that are supposed to be "AAA").
Well if that were true that would be a good argument but it’s just false. Both of you are dumb lol
@FullTimeSlacker Movie and music reviewers have been doing it for years. It is possible. Yes it takes time. They are just being generic and lazy about the job, ratings, and descriptors that they hold a monopoly over. You are part of the problem agreeing they should continue the level of fuckery that they are already doing. Fuck all that. If they can't do the job, there are plenty of people that 100% can.
@@NoahKesterson that's what I thought, are they not getting paid to do that?
Maybe they should hire more than 3 people to rate their games...
I would love to see this defense in court:
" You honor, my client did not "sell" drugs. He was merely giving out a free sample."
Amd he would win that case. If he didnt sell drugs for money, then he didnt sell drugs. However, he would probably go to prison for consumption of that drug, assuming he did consume it
A “free sample with expected donations”
@@trumanhopper2493 well I get the point trying to be made here but "intent to distribute" is also a crime lol
Truman Hopper Nope, the crime is the distribution of drugs not the sale.
@@trumanhopper2493 So the consumption is still the gamers fault for participating in gambling.
ESRB: *Whispers* "Hey kid, want a free spin."
Kid: Sure
ESRB: I'll just need your parents credit card.
That's exactly where this was heading.. If it weren't for people like Joe
ESRB needs to die they are useless in the digital era, any child can get a M rated game nowadays, even my parents bought me violent games when i was a kid. The 90s and early 2000s are over.
For real
They'll also need their social security number for... reasons. Yeah... Reasons.....
@@kushweiser lol kids nowadays know how to get games their parents wont buy them anyways. ESRB is just an irrelevant rating system grasping on by straws before their buisness finally collapses
"There is no gamble." Why don't they have poker tables for kids at casinos where they play for monopoly money? It's not gambling if they're using monopoly money.
It is still gambling. It's still gambling if you're betting using candy corn. The "gamble" is the price you pay to win or lose. You still have to put monopoly money in the pot to win or lose.
@@adamfillion9653 Hang on, game of chance (and some skill) with dice and money. Doesn't that make monopoly gambing?
“Rated E for easy money, gimmie your money.” -ESRB
Lol
ESRB = Easy Systematic Robbery Board
Shouldn’t the whole point of the ESRB be to make it hard for games to get sold. New games should start at Mature and have to earn the ‘E’ rating.
hahahahha :D
@@D4rkn355Inf3rno LOL
ESRB: "it is not simulated gambling if you don't wage currency"
Joe: "what about lootboxes?"
ESRB: "it is not gambling if you always get 'something' in return"
Remember, if you gamble all your money away, but the casino clerk gives you a pack of matches for your time and money, it is not gambling!
Most casinos, in small towns and cities anyway, give you free drinks while you are gambling...
At this point video games are casinos with night club doormen demanding entree fees!
Get a free buffet. Not gambling.
Very true.
u dont wanna give a pack of matches to a guy that just lost all of his money in ur casino...
@FullTimeSlacker??? How have they become an idiot, I'm pretty sure saying that because you get something back in return, it's not gambling is the idiotic item in the room, that's a stupid thing to say, and I get the analogy could be better but it's on the mark.
Angry Joe: Your rules are old and out of dated.
ESRB: For the last 25 years we have followed our rules to the letter sir!
Well, the commitment to stupidity is commendable. :)
The only thing the ESRB cares about is the same thing conservative Christians care about in this country... Sex, Violence, and Dirty Words. Everything else is kosher...
"Pretty lights and colors can't hurt people. Plus there's money involved! And money is the best thing on the planet!"
@@williamyoung9401 and the root to all evil 👍 so it means it's got to be good. Because well they are opposite and think opposite.
"WE SEE 16 TIMES THE DETAIL" could not stop laughing after that one.
Angry Joe: "Tell me how this works?"
ESRB: "It just works."
"Money floooooooows! It just works!"
ESRB: Put a few bucks down on a PR agent... I guess. Interrupting my money dance.
Sparkey SSJ3 16x the E’s for everyone.
Todd... is that you?
thats bugthesda line
The ESRB doesn't even follow their own rating guidelines. 😂
They follow the payoff guidelines.
They're corrupt, what do you expect?
Come on.., are we really that surprised?..
lol Nicholas
This is the same thing that happened to the Boeing situation, with the whole MCAS debacle.
*Simulated gambling exists*
ESRB: "I've never heard of that phrase before."
ESRB Search has returned 0 results.
*receives money under the table*
They created the lable.
Esrb is not responsible for any online content. They only rate the offline content.
Walks into casino for the first time at 21 and looks at the slot machines.
Me "ah, so this is gambling"
Security guard ESRB "in all my 25 years of working here, I have not once heard that term, how dare you... these are adult arcade games. See how the pull bar is bent backwards and not forwards?
Me "yeah... I guess..."
ESRB- "arcade games by regulation. Learn your facts kid"
"If it looks like gambling, feels like gambling, sounds like gambling, and EVEN smells like gambling. Its not gambling by our 25 year old standards..."
ESRB: It's not simulated gambling is there's no gamble.
Me: Well, then games don't have simulated violence because no one gets hurt.
STR33TSofJUST1C3 well done. And the initial gamble happens when you buy the initial game (disc/programming)
Bravo. They're contradicting themselves! Slot machines =/= gambling, guns =/= violence, sex scenes =/= sexual content. GTA should be E for Everyone too, then.
ESRB: *Surprised Pikachu face*
I see what you are getting at but it's not quite the same.
The problem is that violence is a universal word/definition that has been around for hundreds of years so they can't decide what counts as violence and not they have to go but the definition.
Simulated gambling is a new word that only really applies to virtual items. (Movies/Games)
As such there is not set universal word/definition that applies to it. Meaning in the ESRB's eyes they can decide what counts and what doesn't.
The simplest way to fix this is to have a universal definition of "simulated gambling".
I should add that i in no way agree with the ESRB but i also don't think it's entirely their fault.
Very underrated comment.
ESRB: "Look your fans are making things a little stressful, here's some PR to get you to stop please."
AngryJoe: "Oh we're just getting started! :)"
People: How can you know what you rate if u don't play the dam game.
ESRB: don't worry it's a HD video.
ESRB / PEGI and most nations use independent assessors and don't review the games or play them, its independent contractors... Australian government response was "Authorised Assessor Computer Games (AACG) Scheme to classify NBA 2k20, wherein a games industry assessor recommended a general classification with consumer advice of ‘online interactivity’, having indicated in the written report that there were no classifiable elements"
If parents have to worry about their children spending money in games, that should speak volumes about how predatory and manipulative this system is
"If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck... it's not a duck, because our criteria dictates that it has to be in the neighbourhood of a pond to be considered a duck." - ESRB
Lol awesome
Dan H this guy is an obvious lawyer
lmfao!! in tears right now. this post = golden.
Something huge missing here, there’s an in game mode call “Ante Up” in NBA 2k20 where you gamble your “VC” and bet on you winning the game against other players. Is that not gambling?
Damn I don't give two fucks about a free slot machine that you can't even pay to spin, but this ante up sounds like some legit gambling now.
ESRB: Well then get good scrub.
Must be something else to obfuscate and call it simulated sports betting.
You can play the mode with a created character against others and bet as much as $20 of in game “VC” on one game of 3v3.
@@Zac___ Why is this not being talked about?
"Are these Loot-boxes considered gambling?"
"Well yes, but actually no." - ESRB
I think this is where gamer will "lose". We gamers simply does not understand the legal definition of what constitutes as gambling.
SidAlpha have raised this concerns, that we gamers simply are not prepared to fight this battle.
@@goonerOZZ There are other ways to win though. Prime of which is voting with out wallets
@@Corpsehorser which won't work, because normies are seriously outnumbering us in terms of buying power. Just look at how thriving mobile gaming is right now
They use an excuse that you always get something at least. The problem is the item you want is several times more harder to acquire unless you throw money at it or play an unrealistic amount of time before they pump out another game next year that does the same shit.
@@goonerOZZ If tobacco companies can be forced to stop using advertising that make cigarettes look too "cool" to kids, then I think the government can be panicked into doing the same with gambling.
There was a thing called 'hot coffee'.
They cared about that.
in ah sh!t here we go again?
haha yea
Because it did make them money LOL
*After Esrb’s response*
Pegi: Fine, I’ll do it myself
∂σηт яεα∂ мү υsεяηαмε
@@dontreadmypicture8003 don't care
@@dontreadmypicture8003 F*ck off
They aint gonna do shit
@@dontreadmypicture8003 and fuck you
AJ: "Slot machines give free spins in casinos to hook people, how does that not represent gambling?"
ESRB: "We look at context - a spinning wheel may be random, but there is no gamble."
Everybody: "THERE'S A LITERAL SLOT MACHINE IN THEIR PROMOTIONAL MATERIAL!"
ESRB: "That's not a slot machine, it's a virtualized lever-actuated random prize distribution apparatus."
Damn, I actually love that description, fucking nailed it
Oy vey-!
*ESRB watching this video*
"He's a man not a god!"
He is approaching the generator!
underrated
Joe:"You dont know what I am. You dont know what I can do. I'm Dr. Who in this mf!"
mad world171 “COME ON COMRADES!”
You must construct additional pylons!
Question #4: "Do you actually do your job?"
Response: "Well, no, but in our defense, doing our job would be difficult."
"This is simulated gambling."
"No, there's no real money involved."
"What about loot boxes?"
"They're like baseball cards."
"Baseball cards are not contingent with you pre-paying to purchase. You don't have to first buy tickets to a baseball game in order to buy baseball cards. They're independent of the larger game of baseball. And while the contents of a pack of baseball cards are random, and everyone knows this, they also do not effect the game of baseball. It's not like the more packs of cards sold, the better the players on those cards play, or the more options available to customize their uniform so their fans can more easily pay attention to them, or to boost their confidence when playing, or whatever. But loot boxes and timesavers and other monetized elements in modern games do just that: they alter the way the game is played. These could be as minor as the way the character looks (which provides feedback in the way the player responds to the game and the avatar in use) to providing ways to circumvent or skip entirely "boring" sections of a game to get to the more desirable gameplay elements so the player has 'more fun' playing the more they spend. That is not like baseball cards. That would be more like car races where you can only improve your performance by spending money to get a random selection of car parts, some of which might provide the boost to performance you desire, maybe, some of the time. Any real-world system that worked that way would have been shut down or regulated fiercely LONG ago, but in games--and there are currently racing video games which use a system similar to what I just described--they're fine. It's 'not gambling.' Because the definition of gambling says so. Maybe it's time to redefine gambling. And it's definitely time to reexamine the criteria used when rating games."
Give this guy a medal.
TLDR: Microtransactions are bad and ESRB are stupid
I did enjoy your comment in all seriousness
Its time to redifine gambling as scummy theft. Should be illegal in-game and IRL aswell.
Angry joe should legit quote this on the next vid he makes on the ESRB, if not directly to them in his next emails
Was not ready for that wall of text
ESRB: We answered your questions so it's okay now.
Everyone: But the answers don't make sense!
ESRB: You want ANSWERS, not answers that make SENSE!
Jephthah San Pedro top comment
But nba2k20 literally has a game mode in the park called ante up, a gambling term. This game mode allows players to take VC "virtual currency" which is purchasable with real life money and gamble it against another player. Winner gets the VC and loser, loses there VC. Is this not the literal definition of gambling
They never actually played the game so they have no idea what ante up is. Or that they have ATMs on the wall inside it you can buy VC from lol.
They all just jump on the same bandwagon together to monetize the subject for themselves without providing a solid arguement. I'm not surprised this happened because they are like the girl crying wolf for attention.
Now we the townspeople, have to kill the wolf they helped the ESRB ignore. Crying gambling at free to play randomized rewards, ignorant to what is actually happening in game.
Well, putting your money on the line isn't considered gambling in a legal sense. Because the game (basketball) is based on skill not luck. There's been an endless discussion if poker is gambling or not. In the end they decided that it's more of a skill based game, that's why you can play poker online for real money in the US.
@@MacrosBlack360 This isn't real basketball. The people wagering the vitual currency are different ages, have different builds, amounts of boosts, and internet speeds. They are playing other people in different states.
You can bet money to play poker online but it's with other people over 18 years of age. Certain states like Washington, don't allow betting money in online poker regardless.
Even if this was skill based, which I believe it isn't entirely. You still have children betting with adults.
@@MacrosBlack360 bro nobody wants to hear legal shit at all tht argument is so wishy washy
@@miketerele1584 Good point, I didn't think of that. And you can buy ingame currency for real money, right? If so I agree, the game shouldn't be played by kids.
I laughed so hard at the mention of the raters inability to test all the games content, I'm a LQA tester, that's what I do every day!
Yea but then they'd have to pay people to do actual work. Why pay someone to play a game for potentially 100+ HOURS when they could instead just watch a 100 MINUTE video of said game?
@@erikhendrickson59 haha exactly.
"The ESRB rating doesnt impact sales", good then it shouldnt be any issue to bump up the rating
Yeah, let's slap an M rating on games with gambling, erm, I mean surprise mechanics and see how the rating won't affect the sales...
@@atanasdobrinov8008 I completely agree with you, but Steam doesnt do alot to prevent kids from owning M-Rated games, so I dont see PC being affected by the ESRB, my parents knew I was buying games, they just didnt know which so the whole "M-Rated" thing never affected me. (This is anecdotal ofcourse)
@@snakeyman5560
Wait, there are kids that put their correct age on any website ever?
It wouldn't effect sales on sports games.
@@manictiger I never claimed they do!!! Never!
Um let’s not forget that casinos give people “free spins” as well in order to hook people on the slots.
They also do things to trick you into thinking you have some control over what is happening by gamifying aspects.
wow they do, so that is of course not gambling as they do not pay for it to win something
was just the same thing i was thinking when free spin is not gambling.
Maybe it could count as an open beta gambling, as its only to test the systems so no win or lose
So do drug dealers
They should also ban in-game advertising and marketing for micro-transactions.
Great point wish it was mentioned, would have been a great counter argument.
Me: why is this game rated E?
ESRB: Pixels rendered on a screen isn't *legally* definable by us as porn.
@Erik Lerström ESRB: I like money.
@@Red_Lion2000 ESRB: Go away, I'm batin'...
I love the tactics in the ESRB's reply "You know as well as anyone"
Ace lawyer tactics
AJ: "Why are you rating a gambling game E for Everyone?! 😕"
ESRB:"Steeeep right up and spin The Wheel of Answers to find out! First spin is free!🤑"
AJ: "Nice try....😒"
ESRB:".... Had it all set up and everything.... 😞"
Pwnz the first spin isn’t free every spin is free even the plinko
@@genaysis2k947 that may be true but its still stupid as fuck and shouldn't be allowed or else eventually it won't becomd free no more
Casinos offer free spins to first time visitors or even a certain amount of spins “equivalent” to let’s say 50 bucks. Yet no kid under 18 can even be around one of those machines even if free.
I wish we could all self regulate our businesses. This is like letting a drug addict run his/her own pharmacy
Businesses "self-regulate" themselves all the time.
I literally got 10 dollar free play from The Orleans. I never had to put money into the machine. I just typed in my pin and i got free spins.
At the local Cadillac Ranch Casino they give you free drinks for gambling... ALL NIGHT LONG!
And apparently casinos dont even need gambling licenses now. Just give every loser a penny back and its not a gamble any more, they always get something.
Sounds like they're saying "If they aren't literally spending money to gamble, it's not simulated gambling." Which is correct, at that point it's not simulated gambling, it's just gambling.
They are saying when you buy a lootbox,
you will ALWAYS get a product and will never lose the money your bought it with. You might not get what you wanted(will most likely not get what you wanted) but thats why its like trading cards from Yu-gi-oh to Magic.
Its a loophole they are abusing
@@imo098765 So if a Casino gave you back different loser casino chips when you lose that have no objective value, would they no longer be considered gambling?
@@Edax_Royeaux If you buy a product that has a base value and you are always guaranteed that base value then you arent technically wagering that money because you always get what that money is worth. In that situation you can never leave with less value than what your original purchase was but the value is decided by someone else who is trying to make as much money possible.
How much that should be worth is another discussion when a skin is worth a third of a brand new AAA complete game. Or more than an Indie game.
Gambling in a casino when you enter to win money and you leave with objectively less money than what you started with, a chip equates an exact real money figure. While what is the exact value of a lootbox content, the publishers have already scammed people thinking the worst outcome is the value of a single lootbox
@@imo098765 But you can equally claim that a funko pop has as much value as a casino chip as it's the same colorful plastic. So they can make it that if you lose at Blackjack, you are "buying" loser casino chips and claim playing blackjack is the same as buying a funko pop, only when a added chance of randomly winning a special bonus item (more casino chips).
@@imo098765 In M:TG you pay for the pack itself which has value on its own. A pack of alpha has risen in price. Other have dropped. You still buy something of value and you still get something of value when you open the pack. In videogames, you do not buy a pack, the pack doesn't exist, you buy a gamble. The pack doesn't have value. It cannot be stored. It is gambling pure and simple. Is that so hard to understand?
ESRB: its not gambling, u dont understand what gambling really is.
AAA Game Company: yes...good...good keep lying to them for us and we will keep ur pockets filled with money.....(evil laugh ensues).
It's sad... you're right, they (Those gaming companies) surely rejoice at it. ESRB is so wrong here.
Publishers: Hey kids, have some free crack.
ESRB: No money exchanged hands so this is fine.
Money does exchange hand. It just goes through and exchange of real currency for game currency.
It's ok because it's only "simulated" crack
How much did the "independent" assessor get paid to write that weak report?
So uh, is it OK to give away drugs, as opposed to sell them? Srs queschon :P
Kids: No thank you. We play only genuine games.
"It had simulated gambling, so we gave it E for everyone"
...
Even the ESRB doesn't follow its own rules. So much for "self regulation."
Alex Rada I like how your profile picture is Cole Phelps, it fits the comment so well
To be fair, they do also say in the same email that it’s due to the context of a situation that ultimately alters the rating. The issue is because they refuse to recognize the distinction between loot boxes and gambling.
This why I hate when politicians trying to say corporations need to self regulate 😂 they shouldn't because they love the goal post Every time .
"You're welcome to disagree but it doesn't matter what you think anyway." - ESRB 2019
ESRB: “No we didn’t rate Pokémon T for teen even though it had simulated Gam-“
AJS: ....
ESRB:....
Both: *double finger guns* “Ahhhhhhhhhhh”
wtf did I just read?
What
No it's not "simulated" gambling, it is "literally" gambling.
Exactly smh
Are you dumb? Gambling is putting money in with hopes of getting more back, in 2k that does not happen. You get the vc you paid for.
For the 2k game you mean or any video game with gambling games in it?
@@ariesthagemini6526 You're putting in your TIME into the game for a game of chance to get something good. Its gambling your time for potential rewards. Simulated Gambling.
The problem is, that it isn't, as per word of law. Since you can't pull money from the system. Aka they are going to use the law as an excuse to pass off this absolute garbage to kids.
Angry joe: helping out the kids not gamble
ESRB: hey kids "free spin"
Yet they play magic arena online and not complaining
@@rmcdaniel2424 Ain't that basically pokemon tcgo? Because the difference is you're allowed to trade and it's a game that you don't have to start over every single year? If so, it's a far cry to NBA.
Also, the NBA backlash is pretty much to the broken gameplay while 'surprise' mechanics are just fine.
Yeah drug dealers use the same tactics.
A government agency: "Meet Our Corporate, Executive Team! With appropriate titles!"
me towards the ESRB: yep, and the "free spin" is all part of the real gambling: the card packs, which CAN be bought with real money and which do yield random rewards with a jackpot bait like Messi or LeBron James to lure gambling addicts and kids in!
"player choice"
"sense of accomplishment"
"surprise mechanics"
"baseball cards"
"time savers"
"it's just cosmetic"
"it's optional"
"Live services"
"Insert payment method for next meme"
"Insert payment method for next meme"
"You have no more funds. Please insert another payment method"
Hehe, very nice man
I'm calling it right now. Next years (not)assassins creed "R.P.G" game will upstage break point. I knew they turned it into an online open world action R.P.G hack and slasher. From a stealth based linear action adventure to monetize it to the max. The last 2 games were just 4play.
@@verywhite6372 The amount of this I'm seeing on the Ghost Recon Reddit is amazing.
You forgot to ask the question
"Is this good for the player?"
The ESRB are just spinning you in a circle by comparing it to irrelevant things like baseball cards. They keep avoiding your question.
"NBA doesn't use in game currency so it's not gambling"
Everyone in the world: but it does use in game currency.....
I feel like this would’ve gone somewhere if angry joe didn’t lie a lot on his views from his last video on the 2k rant.
BigBallerIvan What did he lie about?
@@tagus100 and he never replied
@@PokeOVO oh hi Beth it's you again
@@PokeOVO i second there question....what did he lie about?
I love how the ESRB thought that this was going to help them but, in my eyes, its like a bank robber letting a cop know his logic behind robbing a bank.
ESRB: "If their age is on the clock, they're old enough to pay for lootboxes."
End My Suffering HAAHAHA
Lol
Is it normal clock or are we including military time lol
Also ESRB: "If they can play they can pay"
if their age is on the clock, they're ready for the lootbox
Hey Joe, Other Joe, and Delrith and co. For giving voice to the people! Much appreciated, it's very cool that your channel has a loud enough voice that ESRB has to respond, their usual reality denialism notwithstanding.
"We've been doing it this way for 25 years"
*_LADY!_* That's... kind of... the problem.
_1994?_ The SNES came out in 1990...
Read: Their guidelines, were created in response to SNES/Genesis games...
Yeah, those will be useful... >.>
Those games didn't even have mtx, rofl. This is comical.
Old people are always ruining the world with their old ways. Old is NOT gold. Its at most silver.
Ok boomer
@@nanifa6082 "old ppl" make the games fyi..
@@coreysmalls4259 no, they dont. They DIRECT the games, and thats the problem. Unless 25-35 is consider old to you for some weird reason.
Angry Joe: why is there a contradiction?
ESRB: Yes
ESRB: Yesbutno
Fucking ESRB lmao
I miss total biscuit, he would have had a field day with this
Too bad his ass had a field day with him instead.😞
If it had FOV sliders it'd be the cream on the cake. honestly though TB was a true legend. may he never be forgotten.
Never heard of em
Alolan Vulpix Getting Railed he was similar to angry joe and Jim sterling when it came into ripping into shady game practices. He was my personal favorite out of these type of content creators
Alolan Vulpix Getting Railed he was duing what angry and few others do but much better, there is still his tag on steam that works as seal of approval or disapproval. If you didnt hear about him it means you are young as he died few years ago.
“It doesn’t look like shit, it’s in HD” absolutely killed me lmaoooooo
Simulated Gambling: The Game
ESRB: Does not include simulated gambling. Rate it E for Everyone.
Should be a buggy AF broken on release label in 2019 lol
Just a picture of a dumpster fire for a rating
No remember they don't play the games lol
Hell, you could pretty much label all recent "live service" games with a "Paid Alpha release" label. That's what they essentially are
ESRB should put that rating on themselves apparently. Incompetent, corrupt pieces of shit. Bet EA threw them a billion to never make lootboxes have a proper rating.
@@evasan9432 The game is built around simulated gambling that is the problem man. I agree with Joe that children (many of them) are not able to understand what things are actually worth. They don't work, they don't make money. In order to get the content they desire (which is on the disc already) they could spend hundreds or thousands of dollars to get the Lebron James they want. Comparing people who eat dry wall and a gambling addict is the worst false equivalent I have ever heard. We should be trying to treat gambling addicts so they don't ruin their lives being prayed upon by corporations that don't care about them or their loved ones. Nobody benefits from somebody eating fucking drywall. Yes, I do think people who get addicted to gambling are not bright, but that doesn't make it okay to say 'fuck 'em, let them give all their money to the rich who don't need it'. Gamers don't need to be left out to dry because companies that publish games turned gaming into a racket for gambling addicts because that makes more money. Kids don't need to be introduced to gambling!
About the baseball card comparison:
When you get a valuable baseball card, there is monetary value to it, and it can last you a lifetime. When you open a pack for a sports game, even if it’s valuable for the time, it’s for a yearly release and yields no true return on investment. Because of this, you could argue that’s even worse than normal gambling, and highlights the fact that it’s predatory.
It IS worse than real gambling. At least real gambling you have a chance to win your money back.
Also, big difference to me, there are thousands of places to go to buy the exact card you want without having to buy a pack. If I only want a single card or two, i can get them. These games dont allow me any method to get the thing i want for a single set price or a set market value.
You cant legally sell stuff from lootboxes
So it has no value whatsoever
To add to the baseball card comparison, you have multiple ways to acquire baseball cards too. You can buy the packs with random cards, or you can use second-hand stores to buy the exact card you want. However, when it comes to these types of loot box games you are forced to buy the random loot boxes because it's the only option available to you.
It's completely disingenuous for these companies to compare card packs to loot boxes.
The ESRB's primary job is to appear as though they are an unbiased rating agency, while protecting the ability of game companies to make as much money as possible while having no actual moral limitations (but to make it appear as though there are).
Just when i was looking for something to watch
∂σηт яεα∂ мү υsεяηαмε
Tyler Smash send link just curious
2:00 ESRB are trolling. That's how scam business works.
Back of bro. We don't want your kind here
Just when I thought I was out. They pull me back in!
At this point I would legit pay money to see AJ, Yong Yea and Jim Sterling on a 3v3 discussion with those responsible for gambling in video games.
Jerry Springer should host it so we can see the industry reps freak out and start throwing chairs.
Samsa SHUTUP AND TAKE MY MONEY
I would have definitely said John Bain (TotalBiscuit) but, obviously, we can't have that. So YoungYea is a good enough substitute. Although George of SuperBunnyHop would be a better substitute.
Jim Sterling would tear them a new arsehole and fuck it.
I couldn't agree with you more. It's been a joke these last God knows how many years. At this rate I wouldn't be surprised if in 20 years time (if the earth isn't dead that is) that when you purchase your next Fifa football game you have to hand over £500, your kidney and they get to stick a pineapple where the sun doesn't shine. While the idiot kids reply with "thank you so much! It'll be better this year! I just know it!"
*"WE'VE GOT TO HAVE........MONEYYYYYYYYYYY"*
From Tom and Jerry movie ,right ?
Cha-ching!
As Vince McMahon once said it's all about the money it's all about the money
I knowww...I knowww...
@@cjthelonewolf7410 here comes the money (here we go, money talks) here comes the money, money, money, money, money, money, money, money, money (dolla dolla, dolla dolla)
What i get from this is:
they don't play the games they rate
There is no accountability for companies for lying or going against regulations
There is no way to know if people in the gaming industry are part of the rating system because they keep these identities completely secret.
They approve of underage gambling, as pokemon has proved.
"Companies make a game with a rating in mind" and then you give them that rating based off a sales pitch rather than actual product testing.
They believe parents are too stupid to bother informing.
They believe their rating system has no actual impact in the real world, so it doesn't matter anyway (their comments on rated M games)
And lastly, their PR representative is extremely flexible, to be able to kick her own ass by swallowing her own foot whole.
Precisely! To me, loot box games are like buying a 15 year old luxury car. It looks great on the outside, but you drive it for a little while, and it starts to break down...
When they say "None of the sales are affected" right after, that's Kettle logic used by lawyers and they dont believe their own case.
JT Nelson not when broken down 😂
ESRB definition of gambling in games: "If you can't put real money inside the blue-ray slot, than is not gambling."
You forgot that according to the ESRB my putting my dick in a pie increases the monetary value of said pie allowing them to cut it into slices to sell for all the money in the world!
"This product may contain nuts."
But you can! Well I did.... it didn't end well.
I paid for the game which includes a CHANCE to play the content. So ridiculous.
The amounts of loose change I’ve found inside Xbox and PS consoles in my repair job begs to differ lolol.
Games of the Future
“Rated ‘L’ for Lootboxes”
@Eric D.
"Rated 'F' for F*CK YOU" basically.
rated "B" for: "Because we can legally"
Rated "M" for microtransactions
Rated SM for Surprise Mechanics
Brando Pretty much.
When E rated games need parental controls, then there's clearly something wrong!
This really isn't going to go anywhere. Look at the ESRB CEO's that are mostly have ties to developers like EA.
Joe: That's illegal
ESRB: No
Joe: But what about the children!?
ESRB: Yes
Who's Joe?
@@GunSwordGaming haha
@@GunSwordGaming the angry one
@@kamulecPL12 Joe Mama got em
@@GunSwordGaming Rip
*ESBR:* "Your points are valid Joe but sorry we really like that kid money soooo..."
His points weren’t valid though, most of the shit he said were false
@@PokeOVO yo Beth, nice username
The Satan Of Toilet Seats “oH hI BeTh ItS yOu aGaIN”
@@PokeOVO did u finally find the lies? Probably not
john redcorn oh no the nerds are attacking me 😭
ESRB: "...we're always looking into how we can enhance the rating system..."
Me: When's the last time you updated your rating system?
ESRB: 25 years ago
😕 I'm so confused ...
They improved it, "independent contractors" the American business dream to reduce cost and get the industry to do their own dirty work out of view.
But they have. They changed the rules on violence to be much more strict. Now you can't have a game like Zelda OoT with an E rating, but you can have real money gambling...
Free spins is like a drug dealer giving you a free sample, I guess the ESRB is ok with kids getting free drugs but once they pay for them its not ok lol....
The correlation is crazy lol, you get free spins after winning a game lol
EA: "ESRB we need you guys to shut Angry Joe up ". Name your price.
ESRB: "One million dollars".
MR.DC COMICS only way they’re gonna shut Joe up is with a hitman
@@ofearghailthefearless6481 Don't give them ideas... 2K just might
I think that with ea it would be more like:
EA: "How much for making AJ shut up?"
ESRB: "You have to purchase price tag separately for 20$. Or you can buy price tag lootboxes for only 1.99$ per 1 unit. There is a 0.0001% chance of getting a decent price tag from one of those. There are also price tag season pass and price tag PRO DELUXE season pass for only 59$ and 119$"
Dr_Evil_finger_pose.gif
EA: “Sweet, that’s Small Change, we can probably find that down the back of our sofas”
"...there's no sound argument that supports the theory that having a more restrictive rating on its own negatively impacts commercial sales of a game."
Okay, make all games which include gambling M or AO+ (check local laws for legal gambling age) and see what happens.
It wouldn't effect Fifa, maybe basketball games where you have a smaller market. Ratings don't stop kids playing games. Spend 5 minutes on GTA and most of the lobby is young teens or children.
"Its like baseball cards"
Yeah if you buy baseball cards for a year, throw them away, and then buy them again
more like if you spent $1000 in the hopes to get shiny babe ruth, end up with a bunch of useless cards, then have to repeat the process every year.
@@VECTAGILITY yeah but even if you get that perfect card, it becomes irrelevant as soon as the new year starts.
Like Pokemon cards
Exactly. They are not baseball cards or Kinder surprise eggs and the like. They are worse. Buying physical cards, we can do whatever we want with them after we get them. Basically we can wipe our asses with them if we wanted to or assemble curtains from them or rewrite the rules et cetera. With digital cards, they are good only as far as they are coded to go to in their coded environment. Their intented purpose is so narrow that the results we experience gets equally emphasised; becoming extremely meaningful. This means that the definition doesn't have to match in order for us to experience the same predicament of addicts - but exponentially worse, and addicts get their usual dose even bigger.
Aren't they labeled as trading cards? You can't trade loot box content so you can't compare them. You can only compare the "unknown" element of them.
Thanks for trying Joe. I'm glad somebody is trying to do something about these predatory micro transactions. ESRB's definition of simulated gambling is senseless. Paying REAL money for loot boxes or card packs that give you random rewards is clearly gambling. The mental gymnastics they go through to try to justify it is pathetic. You can thank 2K's lobbyist and PR team for obviously paying off or bullying the ESRB.
Everyone that cares: Thank you Joe and everyone at AJS for your continued effort in protecting the games we love from corporate laziness, greed, and overall corruption.
Corporate Commander: SHUT UP AND GIVE ME MORE MONEY!
Me: Shut up, Corp. Commander. Get back into your corner, now! >:I
So I guess EVERY casino ever that gives someone chips on the house to incentivize GAMBLING isn't really gambling because those initial chips are free.
So my nieces at 7 years old should be able to legally use those credits since free isnt real gambling. Got it. Thanks esrb. I love loopholes. Morons.
I love how the representative who contacted you didn’t know they rated Pokémon T for Teen in the rereleases. What a joke.
From the research I have done, I have yet to see that. Could you link me the site that shows them as T for Teen (unless you are being sarcastic)? Thank you very much.
@@SophiaSanders61 3DS eshop. Search for Pokemon Red 3DS Trailer on yt.
I just looked it up and seems the pegi rating is 12 here in the Uk but the US rerelease is still a E for everyone which I assume is the ESRB
Actually that was Pegi not the ESRB
Probably a low-end PR person, maybe even an intern.
At least Microsoft sent out Major Nelson.
In the words of Arin Hanson on Zelda Ocarina of Time:
“If the formula doesn’t work anymore or at all, you change the formula.”
Then why is Borderlands 3 listed as including gambling then?
The only reason I can see ingame for the gambling parental tag, are the slot machines inside Moxxi's bar, and it doesn't include any use of real world currency.
Theres also gold keys buuut those are given for free from weekly codes.
So yeah it makes no sense why it's tagged with gambling
KID: mom can I get $10 so I can get my favorite character in the game??
MOM: here’s $10
Moments later....
KID: mom can I get another $10, I didn’t get the character I wanted....
This kid is now a member of gamblers anonymous.....
Esrb: E for everyone! Yaaay!
You said it all. The worst is that despite being funny and exagerated, we all know it will actually be true in some cases, especially with kids.
MOM: No.
The end.
@@HardcoreGator If only that WAS the end in every case. Let's not forget some kids have flat-out stolen their parents' credit cards to by more lootboxes.
Gold Wade How did they get the game in the first place though? How did they get to the point where they’re feeling the need to steal from their parents to buy loot boxes? They didn’t buy one or two loot boxes and next thing ya know they’re committing theft. Parents play the main role here. Let’s not kid ourselves. The parent who gives their child unfettered access to purchase loot boxes at their whim and will is not going to care if the game is rated Teen or Mature in the first place.
How else are 12 year olds all over GTA Online and CoD?
ME: Who rating the games??
ESRB: It's secret
"2K releases a gambling simulator in a basketball game"
ME: That's one of them
Watching your channel makes me want to be more genuinely creative because it’s what’s needed to fix money grabs where what’s popular and marketable replaces what’s creative and genuine
Esrb: It'S A bAskT Ball GaME, It's FiNE!!
Lol basically
Nah man it's Basketball in my Casino game get it right dude.
Gu the Tanuki half the people who say this don't even play 2k
Loop holes it's fine
@@alexanderm3504 it is a basketball game tho do u even play 2k
*Thousands of words of BS later*
"It won't make a difference"
So you typed all that BS out when it would not affect the games if you rated them appropriately and gave parents more information about the games they buy?
*BET.*
I think that's where the separation is.
Their reasoning.
"Loot boxes always contain a reward"
"Gambling can have no return with no win"
When loot boxes contain filler created to fake rewards.
Also card packs are physical items and cost no where near loot boxes and are permanently yours where loot boxes are lost when a games server is discontinued
Exactly. This is exactly how these games are getting away with this. If there was a chance of wagering and getting nothing back then they would be in trouble. ESRP needs an update or nothing will ever change.
Yeah there are gambling machines that always give something back no? If the lottery always gives you a trillionth of a cent back to everyone that plays is that not gambling anymore lmao
@@kx7500 You're still losing money. If they gave something physical to you for every time you throw cash onto the pot then you'd have an argument.
Make Casino where people always get 1 cent reward even if they lose.
BOOM no gambling casino.
Profit
@@Unknownpony If you gamble 100 dollars and they gave you a cent back, you still would have gambled away 99.99 dollars. You can't trade a 100 dollars for a penny.
ESRB: “There is no evidence that suggests ratings effect sales”. Well what is the point of the ESRB then!?
To... Inform buyers? Like I'm sorry but the phrasing of this implies that the ESRB is supposed to be rating games so they sell less copies. Just because a game is rated M doesn't mean it will sell less, if only because adults are the ones who buy the majority of video games.
It's there to say "Hey, you wanna get this for your kid? Well before you do make sure you know what's in the game!" Even if they don't do a great job of this
lmao the game literally has slot machines ESRB: "does not meet criteria for simulated gambling' wtf man
ESRB: "We've been doing this for 25 years we know what we're doing"
The biggest problem like Joe pointed out is that the ESRB decides what "simulated gambling" is.
When it should be that there is a up to date universal definition of what simulated gambling is.
I quoting a comment here.
BoostandaHalf
13 hours ago
" When you make the rules, there are no rules. "
Which is true, at any point the ESRB could say that a game doesn't meet X definition because they decide what that definition is so at any time that definition can change.
This is why universal definitions are made and if needed changed to meet the ever changing world.
They are not set in stone but they also aren't decided by one group.
"Is it simulated gambling?"
"Well yes, but not quite."
True after all it isn't quite simulated gambling... it is more like real gambling with real people and real money
We prefer the term "Chance purchasing."
Consumer: this is simulated gambling
ESRB: the question you have asked is a question.
16x times the detail quote almost killed me... Thank you guys for not letting this be, even if they can cause problems to you. You are kind of heroes that world needs like hell during these corporate scumbag times.
ESRB: its Gambling When we say so
And not gambling when we don't like you lol
Or rather "it's not gambling when WE get a cut of the profit"
@@TheMusicMan1012 They have to gamble In order to get the Profit , That's the way the system works now, You will even have to gamble in order to get your Pay check now , It's a pokemon go , but you gamble before you cross the street lol
@@foxesnroses No no no, it's not gambling, because you ALWAYS get something in return. So even if you lose all your money, you still got a free hat.
A game that offers a "free" spin on a simulated gambling mechanic is THE SAME as a casino giving some coins at the entrance of said casino so people get hooked/addicted to gaming.
IT'S WRONG!
IT'S SNEAKY!
IT'S PREDATORIAL!
Filipe Ferreira also casinos use chips, which is a simulated currency. So by esrb logic it’s not gambling
IKR! I was thinking the same thing!. At lot of casino give you a couple of free coins/chips to use just to get you hook
@@georgekostaras Exactly. There is no real money involved in casinos, so it is for everyone. Just ask the government!
georgekostaras I get your point but it’s not “simulated currency”. You can go up to a machine and literally slip in real world money to gamble on them.
The entire point of exchanging money for chips is psychological. It’s proven that people are more likely to gamble more with chips than real world money because your brain sees chips less important than actual cash.
@@RomnysGonzalez Funny enough you spend enough at casinos they comp you shit as well. Holy shit its better just to actually go to a casino and gamble in reality than it is to do it in games like NBA.. Fucking A thats sad.
"There's no evidence that the rating of the game impacts the sales" Unless we give you the AO kiss of death effectively banning you from all consoles digital storefronts and store shelves.
Even then, a lot of AO games have actually been successful. While they're not going to rest on the shelves with all the other best-sellers at Walmart, the notoriety of being one of the few AO rated games usually draws a bit of attention.
Yes,
Even though NBA 2k20 contains games of chance and even a slot machine in which should constitute _simulated_ gambling, but the card packs should
also make thd game constitute *real gambling* because they take real-world currency (even if its an indirect transaction) and its not certain what youll get the player you want from opening them, so the only way to get a player you desire (assuming you can't buy him/her directly) is to buy a pack and hope you get lucky.
Angry Joe shouldve demanded the ESRB to rerate the game AO
and I'm absolutely baffled he hadnt noticed his mistake.
This is great and I love what you're trying to do here.
That said, the panic whenever the highlighter dude got behind and had to scroll and then catch up and sometimes lost place had me wheezing.