On one hand I agree with Kamiya's comment about patience but on the other, maybe it's better that publishers shouldn't start teasing games until their developers have actual, concrete gameplay footage to show
Honestly, the comment in it's entirety feels a bit backwards to me. If you're of the opinion that people should "forget" about your game until something happens, then, uh... maybe you shouldn't tell people about your game until you have something to show them? Then it would be an actual surprise instead of a play-pretend one.
Yeah, the comment would have been much better off phrased something like: "I deeply appreciate the enthusiasm for Bayonetta 3, and I'm sorry that we got you excited a little prematurely. At this time, I can only request that you put the release to the back of your minds. That way, when we have something to tell you, it will be the proper surprise that it should have been in the first place."
Helena's response of wanting to put the whole franchise behind her also just seems like a slap in the face to the work she put into the first two games that fans appreciated to begin with. She really just chose to antagonize the series that made her noteworthy to begin with AND the fans that she initially chose to weaponize for her own petty revenge.
the worst thing about Bayo 3 is how Helena's accusations kinda screwed over other voice actors. now whenever a VA comes out about how theyrre getting stiffed for their voice work theyre just gonna be accused of "pulling a Helena" and be ignored.
@@shizukagozen777 you say that like similar controversies with bad actors haven't lead to this exact situation where their cause was severely damaged. Pretty much everytime the unfair payment of voice actors is brought up some shit like this happens and all of a sudden no one cares as they must all clearly be liars
Only if people are stupid about it. That gonna be you? 'Cause I'm definitely smart enough to recognize there's an actual issue here, even if she handled it badly. And that seems to be the common consensus in all the coverage and commentary I've seen.
just 2 things i want to add: 1) in helena's videos, she did sort of try to drag jennifer into it, and said that people should not consider her to be the "real bayonetta" (or something along the lines of that). 2) that part about kamiya's comment regarding "his rules", that was a reference to some statement he had in his twitter bio. iirc it was something about him not wanting to engage with any westerners and don't tweet him if you're not japanese.
Regarding point 2, Kamiya's rules also included don't tweet him questions to things he already answered. Basically it just seemed like if you weren't some Japanese person dick riding him or sending him Bayo cosplay pics he'd block you.
Decided to replay Bayonetta 2 after I finished 3. Imagine my surprise when I saw Bayonetta dodge a row of almost point blank bullets directly behind her with no indication that she noticed. Jeanne was done so dirty in 3
I felt personally disrespected by Bayo 3. I talked about it nonstop for weeks and bought it at midnight the second it dropped. I hated everything about it, story wise. How did Jeanne go from the baddest b to a total chump? Why is Viola? And the romance was just 💩 though I am a little bitter about the queer baiting from Kamiya and Platinum games. I had to uninstall after the first run. I'm just going to pretend the series ended at 2.
It’s weird seeing the community reaction go from staunch support for Helena Taylor to “please remove her from earlier games and let Jennifer Hale voice Bayo in those too.”
Or if she'd just went with "I've chosen not to reprise my role because I wanted to return to theater." She's probably tanked her ENTIRE career -- even as a stage director, would you hire someone with a history of going public with false accusations and calling for a boycott of your project unless she's paid over ten times the standard rate?
@@c.cooper2877 You realize, if she was actually paid 15k for this role, with no residuals, that's exponentially less than 0.001% of this game's budget. For the title character. After cooling off and thinking about it, honestly, I don't care anymore if Taylor exaggerated a bit by focusing on their final offer (4k) instead of the earlier ones. They still screwed her over. If that's all Platinum & Nintendo are paying their lead VAs, that's a huge problem.
A reminder to anyone who might be new to What Happened and/or are used to Matt covering a lot of bad games and movies on the show: What Happened is a series dedicated to covering any game, movie, etc. that suffered a troubled development, regardless of whether the game or movie in question wound up being good, bad, or meh. This is far from the only time Matt has covered a good game on the show, as he has also covered Metroid Prime, Doom 2016, Resident Evil 2, Until Dawn, and Goldeneye 007, just to name a few. Just because a certain game or movie appears on What Happened does not mean it is bad...sometimes, games have a long and troubled production but still end up being good, or even great. It's something that I hope is, or becomes, one of the biggest takeaways from anyone who, like me, loves What Happened so much!
Okay I haven’t been following for a while. I was surprised to see Digimon Survive and Bayo 3 both games have been a success and a massive success respectively.
Helena Taylor's story never sat right with me because of the way she threw Jennifer Hale under the bus. Even if she was genuinely lowballed by Platinum, the voice actor circle is incredibly tight-knit and in general will never hold anything against another actor, as VAs are always looking for any work they can get. It all just came off as "If I can't have the job, nobody can."
To me, I don't like the ENG voice cast of 90% of media now days. If it is from Japan, I don't want to hear the ENG voice cast so I don't give them 1% attention. It may sound petty, but I don't like it. I don't want to listen to a Californian to voice act any character.
While I’ll never agree with the way Helena Taylor handled this situation and her behaviour towards Jennifer Hale, Helena Taylor will always be seen by many including me, as the true Bayonetta.
Unfortunately, calling for a boycott of a project you quit isn't a negotiation move, for yourself or anyone else in your industry; it's just straight-up spite. Voice acting can be very demanding work, and I certainly don't see a problem with experienced performers or those who have long association with a character or company getting a share of the profit from something their voice has become strongly associated with. But being square in your interactions is a two-way street, and social media means that falsehoods can travel quickly and do lasting damage.
After playing through the entire game, I expected it to land here eventually. So many parts just feel like they're missing something whereas others feel too bloated, especially when you got that massive release time gap between Bayo 2 and 3 Just didn't think it'd be so soon
Same here. I adore Bayonetta 1 and 2 especially but as soon as I finished 3 I sold it, no desire to play that trainwreck ever again. Serves me right for preordering and getting my hopes up it would seem
@@Maesterful To play Devil's Advocate, I attribute the lackluster reception to the fan's hyping themselves to occasionally unrealistic expectations. Not to say the game isn't flawed, because it is, but to call it a train wreck is needlessly harsh.
@April Flowers same thing happened to Kh3 and ff7r, so you're right about that. People just can't help themselves sometimes and set themselves up for failure and disappointment smh. Just like Bayonetta 3, they have issues, but worse of the franchises, they are not, not even close.
@@arkdetective Exactly!! One of the biggest eyebrow raisers for me was that they expected a plot hole-less story from Platinum games. Story writing is one of their weakest points.
@@aprilflowers5738 As someone who did enjoy this game, what's interesting to me is that while I also have my issues with it, it's also the game that more radically changes up the formula of its mechanics compared from coming from 1 to 2, and while others may hate that, I appreciate some of those aspects. 2 was basically just a slightly tweaked and more fluid version of 1 that just nerfed witch time while making it infinitely more important, added a super transformation mechanic, and simplified the scoring system, but that was about it gameplay-wise. 3 changes so much more about the the series formula with upgrade trees, the demon slave mechanic, only having one weapon per set, Jeanne having her own gameplay-style, a whole new playable character that actually has considerably different mechanics than what were used to, while still managing to keep the core string-based combo system in-tact, etc. I don't think any of these new additions are perfect, but they're FAR from awful implementations, especially on the first attempt of making changes like this. If Bayo 3 ended up just being 'more Bayo 2', then people would've just found a reason to complain about that as well.
This is another one of those stories where I and maybe most of us sat through live. From no news, to ALL OF THE NEWS... Especially these last couple of months with Helena Taylor from beloved, to hated (Did bring up a VO industry problems, wish it was Called Wolf problem...). Kamiya digging a big grave for himself, and an ending that didn't please long time fans... At least Bayo had no signs of slowing down... Yet (Also shout out to Jennifer Hale for being a jem, and Anna Brisbin for her VO rise!)
Funny to think for a second that Kamiya cares what people or fans thinks. The madman has ben blocking people since the begginimg of Twitter for comedic and non comedic purposes. Socially its a bad sign But profesionally talk how much he cares to show hes vision more than just please people. thats why he was involved in really good games and also flops alike
Although I’d argue she destroyed the voice actor treatment… she lied badly and got voice actors to rally with her only to find out in their own stupidity(yes they are stupid for simply believing her when she had zero evidence) that she lied. Now instead of people rallying for voice actor better pay we now are in a dilemma is if their telling the truth or are they entitled brats. She single handle ruined the credibility of the actor pay
The idea that the game was going to attempt an open world clears up a lot of design decisions I had while playing the game. When I first played the game and reached the island of Thule, I thought it was going to be an open world game from that point on cause of how massive the area felt with secrets in so many small nooks and crannys. I wasn't really disappointed in it turning out to be just a hub you return to after doing a linear set of levels that are predetermined for you in terms of the order you go in (if anything I prefer linear games to more open ones), but it does answer some questions I had.
People like Helena Taylor piss me off. When people like her lie or misrepresent information for their own gains, it muddles the whole conversation regarding the legitimate issue(s) they are apparently fighting for and hurts others in the process.
I'm really grateful to see a What Happened about this whole debacle, I'm not especially connected to social media and only get snippets sometimes, so the VO controversy kind of just disappeared to me with only some hinting that Taylor hadn't told the whole truth. It's nice to finally know the whole story (as far as we know atm obviously).
precisely why I refrain from jumping on bandwagons never know when that garbage is going right off a cliff. sometimes it's a good idea to grab a lawnchair, watch things play out for a bit, and make a cool headed judgment
The whole thing felt off to me because the story Helenna Taylor spun implied she was undercut because they didn't want to pay her rates... But they bought in Jennifer Hale, who definitely wouldn't have taken the implied amount (Which was apparently the amount offered for the smaller cameo role) as she's a union actor. And, to be blunt, as vast a body of work Hale has including some critically acclaimed characters, nobody was going to buy Bayonetta 3 because she was involved, unlike with other projects' fondness for casting celebrities in voice roles. So I waited for more news, and it really didn't take long. Did Hellena deserve what she asked for? Maybe, maybe not. I think she vastly overestimated how well the series had sold so far, and actors deserve their share of the pie. But calling for a boycott of a project she didn't get a job on, and also inciting harassment of Jennifer Hale by implying she was basically a union scab was highly unprofessional. (Also, there was the situation a few years back where Hellena outright said Bayonetta "Couldn't say Trans Rights". I don't think it factors in, but it implies a weird inability to separate the character from herself and I'm sure directors and writers LOVE when an outside source dictates what their IP can and can't do.)
@@Joe90h I think it's more that she viewed voice acting as beneath her and severely overestimated her influence over the IP. She was willing to cause as much drama as possible to get what she wanted (which was unrealistic) because she didn't care about burning her bridges in the industry.
The only thing that most likely happen is people are gonna be questioning voice actors if their telling the truth. She destroyed the credibility of the movement. Voice actor can say they are treated unfairly but due to this the people might think they are just brats
So long story short they offered more than what a VA usually gets she declined, then they tried to give another offer she declined again she left and they replaced her with a better voice actress, so she tried to make up false accusations and boycott them, when those didn’t work and the truth eventually came into the light she backed off. All she had to say was that she wasn’t gonna voice Bayonetta anymore and that she was gonna go into theater thats it, all these made up accusations and trying to make Platinum look bad were unnecessary.
@@EdgeO419 Major brand? Have you looked into Bayo 1 and Bayo 2's barely surviving sales? Bayo 2 was almost the last entry in the franchise from how poorly it sold.
If anything, this whole non-troversy of Helena, coupled with the fact that Jennifer Hale is the new VA, drummed up more business for the franchise than it ever had before.
@@RETAIN3R_347 Bayo 3 hit the 3rd best selling game on its release week in the UK, as well as got Best Action Game in this year's Game Awards. I'd say it's performing better than 1 or 2. I'm not saying it's a Final Fantasy, but that 3 is certainly in a better position than it's predecessors.
At the end Hellena Taylor lied by omission, Bayonetta 3 sold well,got a spin off Bayonetta Origins and it won a game award for Best Action Game of 2022.
I would argue that hellena damaged the credibility of voice actor pay. She made it tougher for actors since now people will have to think they are not telling the truth. After all, once hellena controversy died down many people stop caring about the voice actor pay you don’t hear discussion about it as much
The whole director situation makes SO MUCH sense as to why Bayonetta 3 felt so off. I loved 2 more than 3 and 1 in not only gameplay but in story. Not to hate on those who work on 3 I think it's a really good game, but it wasn't as good as 2.
I like to imagine that the new Bayo is just from a new universe that ran basically the same to the old VO’s universe. But also Jennifer convinced me many times there just was no change. She’s good!
This came out a lot faster than I expected. I already knew what happened more or less with the Hale situation, but the initial half of the video says a lot as to why the design of the game feels so off compared to the previous entries.
Colossal Kaiju Combat - What Happened? This is one I'd like to hear your thoughts on, I remember seeing your update videos on the game years ago and I believe your own monster Mecha-Baz was apart of the characters that could have potentially been in the game. I believe it's been nearly 10 years since the game was first put on kickstarter.
The voice actor salary was low, but it's amazing compared to anime VAs. The dub cast for Promare received around $150-$300 for their performance, with no royalty/residual option.
Pretty much voice acting in general doesn’t make a lot of money. If people want to make money in that industry they are gonna have to take Many jobs to make somewhat of a living. It’s not like Hollywood where they get tons of money voice acting is toward the bottom I’m guessing since they only want to pay for the actors voice. Not to mention when they advertise an anime they don’t advertise the dub actor most likely cause Japan are the official language since they did all the work for the most part. It’s a reason why Japan treats their voice actor like a Hollywood star
1000/per hour is not low by any measure. The fact that she thought the offer was below her shows what kind of bubble she lives in. People are not entitled to making basically what an average person makes in year in only 20 hours, which is essentially what she was asking for.
Helena Taylor f**ks around, finds out, then turns tail and acts like the victim. And in doing so, sicks the hounds of her fanbase at a fellow VA. Hope she enjoys life on the blacklist. She's earned it.
Let's be honest for a second, paying royalties to a voice actor makes absolutely 0 sense, if paying royalties was the norm, who would they pay royalties to: just the protagonist, all the main characters, or everyone that did some part? What about other languages, does the Spanish VA gets royalties too, and the original Japanese one then? But then again, this is a 20 hours gig that will take you about a week or two to complete, meanwhile you can find other work as well, and it's not terrible pay. What about the people working on this for actual years, like the directors, artists, writers, etc... people that actually work on a project for an immeasurable amount of time, and get payed less than the VA's, they don't get royalties, and barely any recognition for their work. I'm all about fair wages for fair work, but just because you are the face ( or in this case, the voice) of a product doesn't mean much.
What really bothers me is the filling of playing a worse astral chain Like is really wierd that astral chain felt like an experiment but is better almost in every aspect: story, graphics, mechanics, level design, skill tree, and more. I do love the weapons for bayo
Bayo 3 played exactly like a game that had a troubled development and got substantially retooled and rewritten throughout the process. Frankly the VA fiasco was just the cherry on top. It's also natural for a series that maintains such a high standard of quality to occasionally slip. Bayo 3 is still an excellent game, but it is clearly the worst in the series by a good margin because Bayo 1/2 are just that good.
@@dyztroyax4628 Overall I'd say it does. The Bayo parts of Bayo 3 are better but there's several sections, Viola and Jeanne included, that are far below Bayo 1's more consistent gameplay. Bayo 2 is still the best of course, and playing Rosa is by far my favorite.
Ironically the drama gave the franchise more attention than it ever would have gotten otherwise outside of it's long term fans. Silver lining and all that.
The fact that Taylor, while claiming to be pro-VA salary, did the most possible damage to a VA's cause by being a scammy asshole and dupliciouts, is just heartbreaking cuz yes, video games are notoriously bad in pay and hours.
I have a couple ideas why she got upset, but I wouldn't call them factual. At least before she came out with this information it sounded like in replies to tweets that she did have some kind of depression going on. We also have to factor in that she is an actress in the Theater world and that industry was destroyed heavily between the Covid lockdown periods with job losses all over the place. We also only know about the money that was offered but not about how the actual negotiations went down from either side. The 4000 was an offer for a cameo and its possible that she didn't know she was getting replaced as the voice until that offer came out which results in her saying it was the final offer. I think her boycotting the game wasn't smart at all and I won't defend her behavior on that, but I want to desperately know more about what caused her to have this emotional breakdown.
@Cas R.B. I absolutely LOVE her design in 3, my favorite from the trilogy. The combat is... different. I think the camera needs work, as well performance. The fluctuating performance definitely made me miss some dodges.
I got this game for Christmas. I love what I played so far, which is why I was confused that you'd make a video on it, but a lot of what you said makes sense.
I'm gonna say this now! I NEVER believed any of Helena's accusations! A lot of her points just felt odd, and didn't make any sense! But to go and INSULT Jennifer Hale is what made me pissed! That was just disrespectful, and made me hate Taylor as a person!
Especially since most VA's I've seen are very friendly and professional with each other, so being so damn hostile over this is jarring. Even when VA's are upset over a recast the bulk never take it personally since it's not the actor's fault.
@@benpage11 she was the one caught lying so I have to say she was the one who is more in the wrong here though Platinum could have been a bit more open about s*** instead of trying to act like they had something to hide.
@@benpage11 okay but that can mean a lot of things! People aren’t going to give you the whole details on these things! Scheduling conflicts can mean various things!
I honestly feel bad for Platinum Games with Bayonetta 3 especially with the Helena Taylor situation. The boycotting for Bayonetta 3 part feels weird just cause Helena Taylor wasn't voicing Bayonetta. If the boycotting would've been successful and cause Bayonetta 3 to flop then oh boy I feel like many voice actors would probably love to Boycott a project cause they aren't in it even though they would be originally
I mean, the argument WAS that she was being unfairly replaced because she asked for proper compensation, which sounded reasonable... initially. Of course the truth was she asked for _way too much_ compensation and refused to take any deals offered to her.
@@TwoPairSA Not to discredit all that goes into voice acting, but when it comes to videogames it's the DEVELOPERS that are the ones we want to support with all the work they do.
@@logannottheonefrommarvel9917 You're not wrong, but the real answer is that it's _both_ we should support. At the end of the day most of the money earned by games goes to executives, many of whom never worked on the game. It's a messed up system.
I'm proud to say I was on the right side of the Taylor/Hale argument from the beginning. Immediately, it did not add up to me that Taylor was claiming Platinum underpays voice actors, only to see that freaking JENNIFER HALE was who they signed as her replacement! That's like saying a movie studio was cheap by replacing a no-name actor with Leonardo DiCaprio! And when people would say "why would she lie, she'd be black-balled from the industry & ruin her voice acting career!" I would just think "WHAT VOICE ACTING CAREER?!" she had no roles outside of Bayo & had zero work since 2014! How do those people think she's been living the past 8 years? Clearly, she's not in the industry & doesn't use it as a primary means of income...
This reminds me of the movie "Kiss Kiss Bang Bang" where Robert Downey Jr.'s character is getting a role for a movie despite being a no-name and even getting a real detective to help him out, only to find later he was being used as a secret stunt to get bigger name actor Collin Farrell to lower his own price. Also, kinda bugs me how Helena was giving this vibe of "rolling my eyes" over the situation she helped start, as if she was completely oblivious to the fact that there is a real conversation to be had about VA pay disputes and how she is only muddling the conversations that much more with her vagaries about it all and just going "Eh, forget this gaming noise, back to the theater for me!"
While I'm not sure I'd say I was on the "right side" at first, even from the beginning I was hesitant to jump onto either side simply cause I figured it wasn't the whole story being said right off the bat.
Putting the names in the credits in the Bayo font. Stylish. Still, the most interesting thing about this Whu Happun, is all the stuff we didn't know. I never knew anything about the development changes that went in the background. Almost surprised they entertained an open world given that the very nature of Bayonetta pushing for higher frame rates and high graphical prowess usually means a big fat NO to attempting open world. One of the biggest reasons, over the years, why 3d fighting games, starting with Gen 7, at the time, usually looked so comparably good was the fact they were held in limited sized arenas.
Wasn’t expecting this so soon, to be honest. As much as I enjoyed this game, the story, some gameplay downgrades here and there, the near absence of proper boss fights, the graphics/performance issues, and *especially* the horrifically awful ending made it a disappointment after five years of waiting, and it’s my least favorite of the trilogy. That said, I still had a blast playing it, and it’s still a damn good game. Definitely worth of the Best Action Game award last night and the ocean’s worth of salt from Hellena Taylor.
Very personal opinion: open wirld should never be pushed "for the sake of it". A semi open or linear ish game where everything is polished is better than a shoddy open world game imho.
YO! What the heck i didn't expect this one, i wonder why it took so long for a Bayonetta 2 sequel, luckily Bayonetta 3 delivered in the end and i hope you're doing okay with your own matters now Matt, much respect to you buddy and best wishes :)
I really liked the game, it’s the only one of the series I played through multiple times. Also congrats to Platinum for the sales and winning goty for best action game :) Hope the spin-off will be good
So, unlike other cases of replacement VAs getting hate mail, there's a reason for it... A bad reason, but a reason nonetheless. In that video asking to boycott PG, there was an added detail about how they should do this to the newcomer as well. It was very petty, encouraging harrassment and the first thing that caused me to doubt her story.
Especially since how most voice actors get along with their fellow actors and even when they get recast they never make it personal. They may joke or say that they're upset that they weren't asked to come back but they never make it personal. Because they know the new talent is not to blame because they're not the ones who make the casting decisions.
I don't think the Hellena's Snafu muddied the waters at all because it'd be one thing if Voice Actors remained absolutely quiet on this. But they didn't, several voice actors came out with their experiences as mentioned in the video, so I think its safe to say that, while Hellena's target was wrong , the issue is still there for the rest of the video game industry. I think in regards to Hellena Taylor she put a lot of stock in her role as Bayonetta and wanted PG to come back to her with a worthwhile compromise or her desires met in some capacity but they didn't, and so recasted her instead. Which just goes to show that even if you're playing an iconic character, you're just as easily replaceable as anyone else in this dog eat dog world we call Show business. Personally while Jennifer Hale did a very, VERY well-executed job, there is a lot of glaring flaws in her performance and I don't think she, Platinum Games, or even Bayonetta will be able to shake off what Hellena did give to the role which is very unfortunate because Hale is a legend and she essentially has to act as a "parrot" to Taylor instead which undermines the talent she has. In an ideal world, we would have Taylor still voicing OG Bayo and perhaps Hale voicing the various Bayos that she encounters, but sadly we don't live in such a world.
Video game VO is complex because most gamers don't value the voice actors outside of a few big main characters. This is a complete polar opposite compared to other media franchises like movies, theatre and music where leading stars and big names are almost everything when it comes to guaranteeing sales. IMO the old attitude of star worship and insane pay isn't a better system either, but getting paid badly for hard vocal work and no respect/success is also bad. There's a healthier middleground everyone should be trying to build. VO isn't just kids cartoons anymore but it will never will be Hollywood.
@@cattysplat One can hope, but unfortuantely we live in a world of extremes. Especially on the internet where it's a lot easier to take things at face value.
I agree with everything you said. Reminds me how Nintendo used to change character voices multiple times until they found a perfect one for their vision of the character. An example being Rosalina: I remember reading about her first voice actress, Mercedes Rose and how Nintendo just fired her after 3 games on the Wii as they did not see her voicing the character anymore. Her second voice actress, Kerri Kane did a marvelous job as well, but she too was fired I believe because how they wanted to push Rosalina's personality to a more cheerful and Princess Peach like one. Now about her current voice actress I feel the same as you do with Jennifer Hale and for me personally I still don't see the current voice fitting for the character like how Bayo 1 and 2 wouldn't sound fitting coming out from Hale's mouth. But then again just like with Bayo they have seemed to change the personality of said characters to a different direction than at the beginning...
I've said this dozens and dozens of times, What Happened is not exclusively about "bad games" I've covered lots of games that are considered great or fine.
Was not expecting this, let alone so soon, but definitely a worthy choice. As someone who plays these games for the combat, Bayo 3 is right up there with DMC 5's Smoking Sexy Style but that story though...if Kamiya is determined to rip off Bingo Morihashi, he should just collaborate with the man again. Bayo 3 tries so hard to copy DMC 4 and 5's big moments with none of what made them work there. I like 99% of what they were going for but the execution dropped the ball from orbit.
I liked Bayo 3 but man the hype and happiness I felt from playing DMC5 was trough the roof, I shit you not I was screaming like a little school girl through out the game. But with bayo 3 I was pretty dead pan, overall bayo didn’t really land for me as much as DMC5 did.
So Hellena decided she better be paid as good or better than the top voice actors in the gaming industry after not having voiced anything for 8 years when someone like Jennifer has been putting in consistent voice acting work for those same 8 years? Geesh is she full of herself.
I once had a Twitter interaction with Hideki Kamiya that DID NOT result in me being blocked. I told him Western developed games are less creative imo than games developed in Japan to which he said, "Interesting." I remain unblocked
This game did sorta come and go from The Discourse once it came out, aside from the backlash about the story/ending. Maybe Pokémon Scarlet and Violet releasing so soon after stole it’s thunder?
Well Bayo is also a niche title even with big daddy Nintendo behind it. Pokemon is a colossal franchise and a decades-long pillar of the Nintendo catalog.
@@TheNintenfan64 honestly at first I didnt like her based on trailer perspective but as i played she grew on me. XD viola has some rough edges that need smoothing out, but over time i see her becoming a really good witch.
I'm probably in the minority who LIKES Viola, although I think her character model could have been touched up a bit so she looks a bit less generic. Story-wise, her problem is she was kinda just shoved in our face and not really given enough time to have us warm up to her. She needed more time on-screen WITH Bayonetta, rather than by herself having her solo adventure.
you know i stumbled upon Matt McMuscels idk a mth or so a go and i have to say i love this its soo bloody entertaining .. i watch the videos on repeat i cant get enough .. i even have it on in the back ground whilst i do things around the house ... its imformative and bloody hell hes funny holy CRAP any way .. i know i am just but one person .. but you really make my day so i humbly thank you
Not going to lie, I've been holding off on buying this game due to the controversy, and not really having any idea wtf was going on. Thanks for clearing things up, skeleton man; I'll probably get it on my next paycheck. (Yes, I probably could have checked myself, but like hell I was going to brave the potential horror that is Twitter)
Good call. Save yourself from the poison that is Twitter. If you think you'd be interested and fun with Bayo 3, I highly recommend it. It was definitely a lot of fun despite some flaws.
Ah yes the good ol The game is fun loads of fun, gameplay is so much fun couldnt think of any other game for fun! But story is bad so dont buy it its not fun
Shoutouts to Bayo 3 winning best action game at the game awards. Not saying the other games didn't deserve it, but Bayo 3 winning it felt like an appropriate final middle finger to Helena Taylor lol
Honestly I would very much disagree with the part of people being more aware of the voice actor situation. This whole mess will make people doubt every single time any voice actor or developer mentions being underpaid cause "look at the bayo 3 lady". Taylor did a lot of damage in this aspect.
I'd love to see one of these on Final Fantasy 12, since people forget just how LONG that one was in development, not even including all the tweaks that came after.
Honestly when i first saw the bayo 3 trailer on the Nintendo direct i just assumed it was them shadow dropping astral chain 2. It was a pleasant mix of surprise along with "its taking them forever to cancel this game". Now even this much later ive still not even bothered to pick it up lol
Hoo boy! I knew this was going to happen eventually but didn’t expect it to be this soon and on time for the holidays. “Tis the season to be jolly and time to get naughty in this week episode of What Happened!” 🎉🎄😈😊🎅
That last minute edit to throw in Cereza must have been a real curveball huh. Also saw this one coming, it had so much to qualify and lordy lou it was as winding as I believed it to be.
I wonder if this channel will tackle Inazuma Eleven - The Scales of Ares/Ares no Tenbin...errr, I mean Inazuma Eleven - The Heroes' Great Road/Eiyuu-tachi no Great Road...errr, Inazuma Eleven - The Heroes' Victory Road/Eiyuu-tachi no Victory Road when it finally comes out...after originally being scheduled for a release in 2018. Since just with some casual digging it already was easy to find it having a development Road very befitting of this channel. Also Road puns that'll write themselves, lol. Just not the standard fare for this channel, and might be harder to dig up more behind the scenes information, but even just some of the public stuff might make for a good video...again, once it hopefully really comes out next year, at the franchise's 15 year anniversary instead of the originally planned for 10 year anniversary with the Anime that was supposed to be the alternative version of it's story as they did on all previous main games too. Also had a gameplay-shift originally planned that they scrapped to get closer to the previous mainline games again, the shift even being shown off in betas some Japanese TH-camrs and press got access to.
Wait, I knew about the voice actor contro, but I never heard about the ending of it. She wanted to leave for the theater again, okay? Then leave?? Why make it into a controversy that didn't happen??? Did she think she was the captain of the ship & it needed to go down with her wtf was her goal here if she was done with videos games anyway?
On one hand I agree with Kamiya's comment about patience but on the other, maybe it's better that publishers shouldn't start teasing games until their developers have actual, concrete gameplay footage to show
Agreed on both
Honestly, the comment in it's entirety feels a bit backwards to me. If you're of the opinion that people should "forget" about your game until something happens, then, uh... maybe you shouldn't tell people about your game until you have something to show them? Then it would be an actual surprise instead of a play-pretend one.
Yeah, the comment would have been much better off phrased something like:
"I deeply appreciate the enthusiasm for Bayonetta 3, and I'm sorry that we got you excited a little prematurely. At this time, I can only request that you put the release to the back of your minds. That way, when we have something to tell you, it will be the proper surprise that it should have been in the first place."
Unfortunately investors don't tend to share that point of view.
When even Square Enix has gotten better at showing games closer to release, Platinum has less of an excuse
Helena's response of wanting to put the whole franchise behind her also just seems like a slap in the face to the work she put into the first two games that fans appreciated to begin with. She really just chose to antagonize the series that made her noteworthy to begin with AND the fans that she initially chose to weaponize for her own petty revenge.
the worst thing about Bayo 3 is how Helena's accusations kinda screwed over other voice actors. now whenever a VA comes out about how theyrre getting stiffed for their voice work theyre just gonna be accused of "pulling a Helena" and be ignored.
@@shizukagozen777 And who are you then? The advocate for all voice actors?
@@shizukagozen777 you say that like similar controversies with bad actors haven't lead to this exact situation where their cause was severely damaged. Pretty much everytime the unfair payment of voice actors is brought up some shit like this happens and all of a sudden no one cares as they must all clearly be liars
if they bring proof like Mick Gorden did it then the tables have turn
Only if people are stupid about it. That gonna be you? 'Cause I'm definitely smart enough to recognize there's an actual issue here, even if she handled it badly. And that seems to be the common consensus in all the coverage and commentary I've seen.
This even happened when Mick Gordon released his enormous,, receipt-filled response. There were plenty of "well, look at Helena" dumb responses
"Kamiya blocked the remaining few people he has not blocked" got me to genuinely laugh out loud. Thanks :)
Amazingly enough, I am still not blocked by Kamiya.
I must be the only one. I feel so lonely...
@@GirtheAlienGoldfish me too
@@GirtheAlienGoldfish I'm there with you
@@GirtheAlienGoldfish just ashtag him. it's so simple
The only reason I haven't been blocked by Kamiya is cause I never dared to come out of Twitter-hiding
just 2 things i want to add:
1) in helena's videos, she did sort of try to drag jennifer into it, and said that people should not consider her to be the "real bayonetta" (or something along the lines of that).
2) that part about kamiya's comment regarding "his rules", that was a reference to some statement he had in his twitter bio. iirc it was something about him not wanting to engage with any westerners and don't tweet him if you're not japanese.
Regarding point 2, Kamiya's rules also included don't tweet him questions to things he already answered. Basically it just seemed like if you weren't some Japanese person dick riding him or sending him Bayo cosplay pics he'd block you.
The moment she began to throw Jennifer under the bus, I grew suspicious
I’m not gonna lie I don’t entirely blame him for not wanting to interact with Westerners on Twitter. That place is a notorious cesspool for a reason.
@@animationdude9 Sure, but that is the case as well in Japan. So it's no about that, but just that he seems to be annoyed.
@@animationdude9 He seems only care if you can't write in 日本語ご meaning if you can read or write in 日本語ご he might talk to you.
Decided to replay Bayonetta 2 after I finished 3.
Imagine my surprise when I saw Bayonetta dodge a row of almost point blank bullets directly behind her with no indication that she noticed.
Jeanne was done so dirty in 3
Not one to do whataboutism but everyone was done dirty in 3.
I mean...can't she do stuff like that in Bayo 3?
@@thelastgogeta Eh....not everyone but some clearly were.
@@thelastgogeta everyone was hit by the jobber force
I felt personally disrespected by Bayo 3. I talked about it nonstop for weeks and bought it at midnight the second it dropped. I hated everything about it, story wise. How did Jeanne go from the baddest b to a total chump? Why is Viola? And the romance was just 💩 though I am a little bitter about the queer baiting from Kamiya and Platinum games. I had to uninstall after the first run. I'm just going to pretend the series ended at 2.
The whole Helena Taylor situation was bizarre, to say the least. But I'm sure Jennifer Hale will do a good job as Bayonetta.
She did alright
It’s weird seeing the community reaction go from staunch support for Helena Taylor to “please remove her from earlier games and let Jennifer Hale voice Bayo in those too.”
Bizarre is one word for it...
@@Boomerangofjustice it's the internet 99% of people are fake sheep that's why.
@@thecunninlynguist wow
Honestly wasn't expecting this with what you said in the last video Matt. Hope things are better with your family situation you mentioned.
Maybe this was made before that situation came out, but I'm not sure
What video
What situation?
Huh
@@silase-6352 Matt's last upload video he mentioned family issues
Helena Taylor could have saved her whole career had she simply said she didn't like the story 😂
Or if she'd just went with "I've chosen not to reprise my role because I wanted to return to theater."
She's probably tanked her ENTIRE career -- even as a stage director, would you hire someone with a history of going public with false accusations and calling for a boycott of your project unless she's paid over ten times the standard rate?
@@c.cooper2877 But she didn't, did she Mr. Squidward?
@Ms Aileen Valentine she not only shot herself but dug her own grave and built her own coffin too
@@c.cooper2877 You realize, if she was actually paid 15k for this role, with no residuals, that's exponentially less than 0.001% of this game's budget. For the title character. After cooling off and thinking about it, honestly, I don't care anymore if Taylor exaggerated a bit by focusing on their final offer (4k) instead of the earlier ones. They still screwed her over. If that's all Platinum & Nintendo are paying their lead VAs, that's a huge problem.
@Ms Aileen Valentine This is why you don't shoot guns from your feet.
A reminder to anyone who might be new to What Happened and/or are used to Matt covering a lot of bad games and movies on the show: What Happened is a series dedicated to covering any game, movie, etc. that suffered a troubled development, regardless of whether the game or movie in question wound up being good, bad, or meh. This is far from the only time Matt has covered a good game on the show, as he has also covered Metroid Prime, Doom 2016, Resident Evil 2, Until Dawn, and Goldeneye 007, just to name a few. Just because a certain game or movie appears on What Happened does not mean it is bad...sometimes, games have a long and troubled production but still end up being good, or even great. It's something that I hope is, or becomes, one of the biggest takeaways from anyone who, like me, loves What Happened so much!
Demons Souls too. That one was a good ep.
bayonetta 3 was trash tho so idk what the point of this comment is
Yeah some of the best episodes are the happy endings when they looked doomed from the start. Like Trails from the sky.
@@creativerealms the trails in the sky one was amazing, you'd have no clue playing the game by yourself
Okay I haven’t been following for a while. I was surprised to see Digimon Survive and Bayo 3 both games have been a success and a massive success respectively.
Helena Taylor's story never sat right with me because of the way she threw Jennifer Hale under the bus. Even if she was genuinely lowballed by Platinum, the voice actor circle is incredibly tight-knit and in general will never hold anything against another actor, as VAs are always looking for any work they can get. It all just came off as "If I can't have the job, nobody can."
To me, I don't like the ENG voice cast of 90% of media now days. If it is from Japan, I don't want to hear the ENG voice cast so I don't give them 1% attention. It may sound petty, but I don't like it. I don't want to listen to a Californian to voice act any character.
While I’ll never agree with the way Helena Taylor handled this situation and her behaviour towards Jennifer Hale, Helena Taylor will always be seen by many including me, as the true Bayonetta.
Unfortunately, calling for a boycott of a project you quit isn't a negotiation move, for yourself or anyone else in your industry; it's just straight-up spite. Voice acting can be very demanding work, and I certainly don't see a problem with experienced performers or those who have long association with a character or company getting a share of the profit from something their voice has become strongly associated with. But being square in your interactions is a two-way street, and social media means that falsehoods can travel quickly and do lasting damage.
After playing through the entire game, I expected it to land here eventually. So many parts just feel like they're missing something whereas others feel too bloated, especially when you got that massive release time gap between Bayo 2 and 3
Just didn't think it'd be so soon
Same here. I adore Bayonetta 1 and 2 especially but as soon as I finished 3 I sold it, no desire to play that trainwreck ever again. Serves me right for preordering and getting my hopes up it would seem
@@Maesterful To play Devil's Advocate, I attribute the lackluster reception to the fan's hyping themselves to occasionally unrealistic expectations. Not to say the game isn't flawed, because it is, but to call it a train wreck is needlessly harsh.
@April Flowers same thing happened to Kh3 and ff7r, so you're right about that. People just can't help themselves sometimes and set themselves up for failure and disappointment smh. Just like Bayonetta 3, they have issues, but worse of the franchises, they are not, not even close.
@@arkdetective Exactly!! One of the biggest eyebrow raisers for me was that they expected a plot hole-less story from Platinum games. Story writing is one of their weakest points.
@@aprilflowers5738 As someone who did enjoy this game, what's interesting to me is that while I also have my issues with it, it's also the game that more radically changes up the formula of its mechanics compared from coming from 1 to 2, and while others may hate that, I appreciate some of those aspects. 2 was basically just a slightly tweaked and more fluid version of 1 that just nerfed witch time while making it infinitely more important, added a super transformation mechanic, and simplified the scoring system, but that was about it gameplay-wise.
3 changes so much more about the the series formula with upgrade trees, the demon slave mechanic, only having one weapon per set, Jeanne having her own gameplay-style, a whole new playable character that actually has considerably different mechanics than what were used to, while still managing to keep the core string-based combo system in-tact, etc. I don't think any of these new additions are perfect, but they're FAR from awful implementations, especially on the first attempt of making changes like this. If Bayo 3 ended up just being 'more Bayo 2', then people would've just found a reason to complain about that as well.
This is another one of those stories where I and maybe most of us sat through live. From no news, to ALL OF THE NEWS... Especially these last couple of months with Helena Taylor from beloved, to hated (Did bring up a VO industry problems, wish it was Called Wolf problem...). Kamiya digging a big grave for himself, and an ending that didn't please long time fans... At least Bayo had no signs of slowing down... Yet
(Also shout out to Jennifer Hale for being a jem, and Anna Brisbin for her VO rise!)
Funny to think for a second that Kamiya cares what people or fans thinks.
The madman has ben blocking people since the begginimg of Twitter for comedic and non comedic purposes.
Socially its a bad sign
But profesionally talk how much he cares to show hes vision more than just please people.
thats why he was involved in really good games and also flops alike
Props to her performance anywho
Holy fucking shit ever fucking time with the voice actors getting bad rep good god man
@@AuditoreLink That makes me wonder if this whole mess would end quicker if he just word his statement better at that time.
Although I’d argue she destroyed the voice actor treatment… she lied badly and got voice actors to rally with her only to find out in their own stupidity(yes they are stupid for simply believing her when she had zero evidence) that she lied. Now instead of people rallying for voice actor better pay we now are in a dilemma is if their telling the truth or are they entitled brats. She single handle ruined the credibility of the actor pay
Kamiya did what he always does: block idiots.
The idea that the game was going to attempt an open world clears up a lot of design decisions I had while playing the game. When I first played the game and reached the island of Thule, I thought it was going to be an open world game from that point on cause of how massive the area felt with secrets in so many small nooks and crannys. I wasn't really disappointed in it turning out to be just a hub you return to after doing a linear set of levels that are predetermined for you in terms of the order you go in (if anything I prefer linear games to more open ones), but it does answer some questions I had.
People like Helena Taylor piss me off. When people like her lie or misrepresent information for their own gains, it muddles the whole conversation regarding the legitimate issue(s) they are apparently fighting for and hurts others in the process.
In the end her pride took the biggest blow she never thought she was quickly replaceable.
@@77wolfbladepride comes before the fall - some chill dude saving people from themselves
I'm really grateful to see a What Happened about this whole debacle, I'm not especially connected to social media and only get snippets sometimes, so the VO controversy kind of just disappeared to me with only some hinting that Taylor hadn't told the whole truth. It's nice to finally know the whole story (as far as we know atm obviously).
precisely why I refrain from jumping on bandwagons
never know when that garbage is going right off a cliff.
sometimes it's a good idea to grab a lawnchair, watch things play out for a bit, and make a cool headed judgment
The whole thing felt off to me because the story Helenna Taylor spun implied she was undercut because they didn't want to pay her rates... But they bought in Jennifer Hale, who definitely wouldn't have taken the implied amount (Which was apparently the amount offered for the smaller cameo role) as she's a union actor. And, to be blunt, as vast a body of work Hale has including some critically acclaimed characters, nobody was going to buy Bayonetta 3 because she was involved, unlike with other projects' fondness for casting celebrities in voice roles.
So I waited for more news, and it really didn't take long. Did Hellena deserve what she asked for? Maybe, maybe not. I think she vastly overestimated how well the series had sold so far, and actors deserve their share of the pie. But calling for a boycott of a project she didn't get a job on, and also inciting harassment of Jennifer Hale by implying she was basically a union scab was highly unprofessional.
(Also, there was the situation a few years back where Hellena outright said Bayonetta "Couldn't say Trans Rights". I don't think it factors in, but it implies a weird inability to separate the character from herself and I'm sure directors and writers LOVE when an outside source dictates what their IP can and can't do.)
@@Joe90h I think it's more that she viewed voice acting as beneath her and severely overestimated her influence over the IP. She was willing to cause as much drama as possible to get what she wanted (which was unrealistic) because she didn't care about burning her bridges in the industry.
The only thing that most likely happen is people are gonna be questioning voice actors if their telling the truth. She destroyed the credibility of the movement. Voice actor can say they are treated unfairly but due to this the people might think they are just brats
So long story short they offered more than what a VA usually gets she declined, then they tried to give another offer she declined again she left and they replaced her with a better voice actress, so she tried to make up false accusations and boycott them, when those didn’t work and the truth eventually came into the light she backed off.
All she had to say was that she wasn’t gonna voice Bayonetta anymore and that she was gonna go into theater thats it, all these made up accusations and trying to make Platinum look bad were unnecessary.
A brand new VO maybe, but an established main character in a major brand like Bayonetta 15K is insultingly low.
@@EdgeO419 Major brand? Have you looked into Bayo 1 and Bayo 2's barely surviving sales? Bayo 2 was almost the last entry in the franchise from how poorly it sold.
If anything, this whole non-troversy of Helena, coupled with the fact that Jennifer Hale is the new VA, drummed up more business for the franchise than it ever had before.
@@KimiruLVR not really. Id say the franchise is still pretty much dead. The game itself still has problems and still a very niche pick.
@@RETAIN3R_347 Bayo 3 hit the 3rd best selling game on its release week in the UK, as well as got Best Action Game in this year's Game Awards.
I'd say it's performing better than 1 or 2. I'm not saying it's a Final Fantasy, but that 3 is certainly in a better position than it's predecessors.
At the end Hellena Taylor lied by omission, Bayonetta 3 sold well,got a spin off Bayonetta Origins and it won a game award for Best Action Game of 2022.
You can do a lot worse in this video series.
And it deserved precisely NONE of it's success. Bayonetta 3 is a franchise killer. Other M levels of awful.
i'm still so upset about what hellena did. i really wish she didn't dug her own grave
This was a very accurate description of what happened. Great job 👍🏽
I would argue that hellena damaged the credibility of voice actor pay. She made it tougher for actors since now people will have to think they are not telling the truth. After all, once hellena controversy died down many people stop caring about the voice actor pay you don’t hear discussion about it as much
The whole director situation makes SO MUCH sense as to why Bayonetta 3 felt so off. I loved 2 more than 3 and 1 in not only gameplay but in story. Not to hate on those who work on 3 I think it's a really good game, but it wasn't as good as 2.
Nothing like 2, wish I forgot all about that game so I could play it for first time again this Christmas.
2 is FAR worse then 2 and 3 gameplay wise lmao. you literally cant juggle enemies in 2. its so bad
@@nomight273 2 is worse than 2?
@@nomight273 what
@@nomight273are you high? 3 is fucking horrible in comparison to 2
I like to imagine that the new Bayo is just from a new universe that ran basically the same to the old VO’s universe. But also Jennifer convinced me many times there just was no change. She’s good!
This came out a lot faster than I expected. I already knew what happened more or less with the Hale situation, but the initial half of the video says a lot as to why the design of the game feels so off compared to the previous entries.
Can't wait for the Wha' Happun? episode on The Callisto Protocol.
The Attachment a Fanbase could have to a voice Actor / Actress. Imagine Solid Snake or Nathan Drake being voice by Someone Else.
Ba dum tssshhh 🥁
@@TwoPairSA
Ah you got it. Nice
Colossal Kaiju Combat - What Happened?
This is one I'd like to hear your thoughts on, I remember seeing your update videos on the game years ago and I believe your own monster Mecha-Baz was apart of the characters that could have potentially been in the game. I believe it's been nearly 10 years since the game was first put on kickstarter.
WHOA
Giga bash is basically what ckc promised now even has Godzilla
Was not expecting a bayo 3 WH, but I’m glad we got one.
The voice actor salary was low, but it's amazing compared to anime VAs. The dub cast for Promare received around $150-$300 for their performance, with no royalty/residual option.
Pretty much voice acting in general doesn’t make a lot of money. If people want to make money in that industry they are gonna have to take Many jobs to make somewhat of a living. It’s not like Hollywood where they get tons of money voice acting is toward the bottom I’m guessing since they only want to pay for the actors voice. Not to mention when they advertise an anime they don’t advertise the dub actor most likely cause Japan are the official language since they did all the work for the most part. It’s a reason why Japan treats their voice actor like a Hollywood star
1000/per hour is not low by any measure. The fact that she thought the offer was below her shows what kind of bubble she lives in. People are not entitled to making basically what an average person makes in year in only 20 hours, which is essentially what she was asking for.
@@mr_roboto_says_youre_welco1324 In certain markets, yes, that isn't low. In LA, though? $1,000 is nothing.
Matt, the writing and delivery on your videos is quite enjoyable. It is a great measure of quality for your channel. Keep up the great work, sir
Helena Taylor f**ks around, finds out, then turns tail and acts like the victim.
And in doing so, sicks the hounds of her fanbase at a fellow VA.
Hope she enjoys life on the blacklist. She's earned it.
Let's be honest for a second, paying royalties to a voice actor makes absolutely 0 sense, if paying royalties was the norm, who would they pay royalties to: just the protagonist, all the main characters, or everyone that did some part? What about other languages, does the Spanish VA gets royalties too, and the original Japanese one then? But then again, this is a 20 hours gig that will take you about a week or two to complete, meanwhile you can find other work as well, and it's not terrible pay. What about the people working on this for actual years, like the directors, artists, writers, etc... people that actually work on a project for an immeasurable amount of time, and get payed less than the VA's, they don't get royalties, and barely any recognition for their work.
I'm all about fair wages for fair work, but just because you are the face ( or in this case, the voice) of a product doesn't mean much.
Definitely curious to learn wha happun with game people had been waiting for over half a decade.
What really bothers me is the filling of playing a worse astral chain
Like is really wierd that astral chain felt like an experiment but is better almost in every aspect: story, graphics, mechanics, level design, skill tree, and more.
I do love the weapons for bayo
Copying Astral Chain’s legion mechanics for the demons was a great idea imo - but they failed at the implementation and made it weird and clunky
Bayo 3 played exactly like a game that had a troubled development and got substantially retooled and rewritten throughout the process. Frankly the VA fiasco was just the cherry on top.
It's also natural for a series that maintains such a high standard of quality to occasionally slip. Bayo 3 is still an excellent game, but it is clearly the worst in the series by a good margin because Bayo 1/2 are just that good.
@@smittywjmj Bayo 1 is not THAT good. Bayo 3 certainly beats the first lets be real.
@@dyztroyax4628 Overall I'd say it does. The Bayo parts of Bayo 3 are better but there's several sections, Viola and Jeanne included, that are far below Bayo 1's more consistent gameplay.
Bayo 2 is still the best of course, and playing Rosa is by far my favorite.
@@smittywjmj Thats completely a matter of opinion.
Ironically the drama gave the franchise more attention than it ever would have gotten otherwise outside of it's long term fans. Silver lining and all that.
Not gonna lie man I laughed out loud at the extremely warped Grandpa Simpson quote about the style at the time
The fact that Taylor, while claiming to be pro-VA salary, did the most possible damage to a VA's cause by being a scammy asshole and dupliciouts, is just heartbreaking cuz yes, video games are notoriously bad in pay and hours.
Whoa, I was expecting a What Happened on Bayo 3 but this much earlier than I thought!
Thank you for the content Matt 🙏🏻🙏🏻
Bayonetta 1 and 2 have special place in my heart ❤️, the other one doesn't exist for me
... I don't think I understand Helena Taylor's outlandish behavior. And frankly, I don't think I want to.
Awesome video, Matt McMuscles!
I have a couple ideas why she got upset, but I wouldn't call them factual. At least before she came out with this information it sounded like in replies to tweets that she did have some kind of depression going on. We also have to factor in that she is an actress in the Theater world and that industry was destroyed heavily between the Covid lockdown periods with job losses all over the place. We also only know about the money that was offered but not about how the actual negotiations went down from either side. The 4000 was an offer for a cameo and its possible that she didn't know she was getting replaced as the voice until that offer came out which results in her saying it was the final offer.
I think her boycotting the game wasn't smart at all and I won't defend her behavior on that, but I want to desperately know more about what caused her to have this emotional breakdown.
Wow I didn't expect a video about a game that released pretty recently. Always love your videos, Matt!
I've been waiting for this. This game was so frankensteined together, I knew there was major development issues behind it.
…The gameplay was and her design was fun at least…? Right 🤷♂️
@Cas R.B. I absolutely LOVE her design in 3, my favorite from the trilogy.
The combat is... different. I think the camera needs work, as well performance. The fluctuating performance definitely made me miss some dodges.
fucking loved this game man. I really hope Bayo 4 cleans up the ending a bit and is on new hardware. This franchise really deserves it.
Your intro carries this series so hard (in terms of gaining intrigue in the first ten seconds)
I was hoping we'd see more of this. I love 3 but it's development seems very tense.
So that's why the story went absolutely South. The development was messy from the start...
Glad this game won action game of the year.
The best thing that came out of the whole Helena Taylor debacle was the coining of the term "Bayonutters."
I got this game for Christmas. I love what I played so far, which is why I was confused that you'd make a video on it, but a lot of what you said makes sense.
I'm gonna say this now! I NEVER believed any of Helena's accusations! A lot of her points just felt odd, and didn't make any sense! But to go and INSULT Jennifer Hale is what made me pissed! That was just disrespectful, and made me hate Taylor as a person!
Especially since most VA's I've seen are very friendly and professional with each other, so being so damn hostile over this is jarring. Even when VA's are upset over a recast the bulk never take it personally since it's not the actor's fault.
Yeah the boycott request is REALLY BIG red flag instead of only just exposing the botched payment negotiations
@@benpage11 she was the one caught lying so I have to say she was the one who is more in the wrong here though Platinum could have been a bit more open about s*** instead of trying to act like they had something to hide.
@@benpage11 God you whine a lot to strangers.
@@benpage11 okay but that can mean a lot of things! People aren’t going to give you the whole details on these things! Scheduling conflicts can mean various things!
I honestly feel bad for Platinum Games with Bayonetta 3 especially with the Helena Taylor situation. The boycotting for Bayonetta 3 part feels weird just cause Helena Taylor wasn't voicing Bayonetta. If the boycotting would've been successful and cause Bayonetta 3 to flop then oh boy I feel like many voice actors would probably love to Boycott a project cause they aren't in it even though they would be originally
I mean, the argument WAS that she was being unfairly replaced because she asked for proper compensation, which sounded reasonable... initially. Of course the truth was she asked for _way too much_ compensation and refused to take any deals offered to her.
not really that is just helena taylor remember the whole drama about david hayter and MGSV ? at least he point at kojima and konami not the game
@@TwoPairSA Not to discredit all that goes into voice acting, but when it comes to videogames it's the DEVELOPERS that are the ones we want to support with all the work they do.
@@logannottheonefrommarvel9917 You're not wrong, but the real answer is that it's _both_ we should support. At the end of the day most of the money earned by games goes to executives, many of whom never worked on the game. It's a messed up system.
I'm proud to say I was on the right side of the Taylor/Hale argument from the beginning.
Immediately, it did not add up to me that Taylor was claiming Platinum underpays voice actors, only to see that freaking JENNIFER HALE was who they signed as her replacement!
That's like saying a movie studio was cheap by replacing a no-name actor with Leonardo DiCaprio!
And when people would say "why would she lie, she'd be black-balled from the industry & ruin her voice acting career!" I would just think "WHAT VOICE ACTING CAREER?!" she had no roles outside of Bayo & had zero work since 2014! How do those people think she's been living the past 8 years? Clearly, she's not in the industry & doesn't use it as a primary means of income...
This reminds me of the movie "Kiss Kiss Bang Bang" where Robert Downey Jr.'s character is getting a role for a movie despite being a no-name and even getting a real detective to help him out, only to find later he was being used as a secret stunt to get bigger name actor Collin Farrell to lower his own price.
Also, kinda bugs me how Helena was giving this vibe of "rolling my eyes" over the situation she helped start, as if she was completely oblivious to the fact that there is a real conversation to be had about VA pay disputes and how she is only muddling the conversations that much more with her vagaries about it all and just going "Eh, forget this gaming noise, back to the theater for me!"
While I'm not sure I'd say I was on the "right side" at first, even from the beginning I was hesitant to jump onto either side simply cause I figured it wasn't the whole story being said right off the bat.
Congratulations I guess for being on the “right” side. Would you like a trophy to commemorate this moment?
With every purchase of Bayonetta 3, 50 cents will go to a charity that teaches voice actors how to read a contract.
Unfortunately they might feel to entitled to read a contract. Which is funny cause they agree to the amount they get paid
Trashing voice actors as a whole because of Helena is not it
@@YoshixandirVoice actors gotta eat dude. Especially since the business doesn’t pay very well at all. Sometimes they gotta take any role they can get.
Putting the names in the credits in the Bayo font. Stylish. Still, the most interesting thing about this Whu Happun, is all the stuff we didn't know. I never knew anything about the development changes that went in the background. Almost surprised they entertained an open world given that the very nature of Bayonetta pushing for higher frame rates and high graphical prowess usually means a big fat NO to attempting open world. One of the biggest reasons, over the years, why 3d fighting games, starting with Gen 7, at the time, usually looked so comparably good was the fact they were held in limited sized arenas.
Wasn’t expecting this so soon, to be honest. As much as I enjoyed this game, the story, some gameplay downgrades here and there, the near absence of proper boss fights, the graphics/performance issues, and *especially* the horrifically awful ending made it a disappointment after five years of waiting, and it’s my least favorite of the trilogy. That said, I still had a blast playing it, and it’s still a damn good game. Definitely worth of the Best Action Game award last night and the ocean’s worth of salt from Hellena Taylor.
It's just like Xenoblade 3.
sega still has some ownership of the bayonetta IP
Very personal opinion: open wirld should never be pushed "for the sake of it". A semi open or linear ish game where everything is polished is better than a shoddy open world game imho.
Dude is doing these so efficiently we'll be seeing Tears of the kingdom next week. 🤯
Beyonetta 2 was my favorite game from the franchise. I highly recommend it.
Hope things are all okay on your end, Matt!
YO! What the heck i didn't expect this one, i wonder why it took so long for a Bayonetta 2 sequel, luckily Bayonetta 3 delivered in the end and i hope you're doing okay with your own matters now Matt, much respect to you buddy and best wishes :)
Things here really clear up a lot of things of why Bayonetta 3 is the way it is...
Thanks for the amazing video!
I really liked the game, it’s the only one of the series I played through multiple times. Also congrats to Platinum for the sales and winning goty for best action game :) Hope the spin-off will be good
Bayonetta 3 is my favorite of the series. Super looking forward to Cereza and the lost demon.
Cereza and the Lost DemoNYA
XD
My favorite still is Bayo 2 but 3 is a good game (the story is a mess but the combat is awesome)
Happy to see new Bayonetta titles in the future 💜
So, unlike other cases of replacement VAs getting hate mail, there's a reason for it... A bad reason, but a reason nonetheless. In that video asking to boycott PG, there was an added detail about how they should do this to the newcomer as well. It was very petty, encouraging harrassment and the first thing that caused me to doubt her story.
Especially since how most voice actors get along with their fellow actors and even when they get recast they never make it personal. They may joke or say that they're upset that they weren't asked to come back but they never make it personal. Because they know the new talent is not to blame because they're not the ones who make the casting decisions.
I don't think the Hellena's Snafu muddied the waters at all because it'd be one thing if Voice Actors remained absolutely quiet on this. But they didn't, several voice actors came out with their experiences as mentioned in the video, so I think its safe to say that, while Hellena's target was wrong , the issue is still there for the rest of the video game industry. I think in regards to Hellena Taylor she put a lot of stock in her role as Bayonetta and wanted PG to come back to her with a worthwhile compromise or her desires met in some capacity but they didn't, and so recasted her instead. Which just goes to show that even if you're playing an iconic character, you're just as easily replaceable as anyone else in this dog eat dog world we call Show business.
Personally while Jennifer Hale did a very, VERY well-executed job, there is a lot of glaring flaws in her performance and I don't think she, Platinum Games, or even Bayonetta will be able to shake off what Hellena did give to the role which is very unfortunate because Hale is a legend and she essentially has to act as a "parrot" to Taylor instead which undermines the talent she has.
In an ideal world, we would have Taylor still voicing OG Bayo and perhaps Hale voicing the various Bayos that she encounters, but sadly we don't live in such a world.
Video game VO is complex because most gamers don't value the voice actors outside of a few big main characters. This is a complete polar opposite compared to other media franchises like movies, theatre and music where leading stars and big names are almost everything when it comes to guaranteeing sales. IMO the old attitude of star worship and insane pay isn't a better system either, but getting paid badly for hard vocal work and no respect/success is also bad. There's a healthier middleground everyone should be trying to build. VO isn't just kids cartoons anymore but it will never will be Hollywood.
@@cattysplat One can hope, but unfortuantely we live in a world of extremes. Especially on the internet where it's a lot easier to take things at face value.
Nah fuck her, she wanted to donate to sketch charities that had ties to anti abortion groups and some messy terf opinions on her.
I agree with everything you said. Reminds me how Nintendo used to change character voices multiple times until they found a perfect one for their vision of the character. An example being Rosalina: I remember reading about her first voice actress, Mercedes Rose and how Nintendo just fired her after 3 games on the Wii as they did not see her voicing the character anymore. Her second voice actress, Kerri Kane did a marvelous job as well, but she too was fired I believe because how they wanted to push Rosalina's personality to a more cheerful and Princess Peach like one. Now about her current voice actress I feel the same as you do with Jennifer Hale and for me personally I still don't see the current voice fitting for the character like how Bayo 1 and 2 wouldn't sound fitting coming out from Hale's mouth. But then again just like with Bayo they have seemed to change the personality of said characters to a different direction than at the beginning...
Yeah she killed that ideal world of yours
I think, when we finally get metroid prime 4, we will get an what happened episode about it
WOW
Wasn't expecting this one so soon.
I'd have expected Froniters, honestly.
It's not bad enough to need a what happun
I've said this dozens and dozens of times, What Happened is not exclusively about "bad games" I've covered lots of games that are considered great or fine.
It's probably coming sooner or later. It's probably in the pipeline.
I think the idea is that the development needs to be bad to be on this series, not really the game itself
He's still reaching far accross that new frontier
I hope Matt will do an episode on the Pokemon Scarlet and Violet games as I do honestly feel that the development behind them deserve some spotlight.
Jenniufer Hale's performance was fine. Helena makes a way better Bayo. Shame what happened.
I was interested to see you take on this and what you might find. Didn't know about the open world part thanks for the info man.
Was not expecting this, let alone so soon, but definitely a worthy choice. As someone who plays these games for the combat, Bayo 3 is right up there with DMC 5's Smoking Sexy Style but that story though...if Kamiya is determined to rip off Bingo Morihashi, he should just collaborate with the man again. Bayo 3 tries so hard to copy DMC 4 and 5's big moments with none of what made them work there. I like 99% of what they were going for but the execution dropped the ball from orbit.
I liked Bayo 3 but man the hype and happiness I felt from playing DMC5 was trough the roof, I shit you not I was screaming like a little school girl through out the game. But with bayo 3 I was pretty dead pan, overall bayo didn’t really land for me as much as DMC5 did.
I do wonder why Hideki is even on Twitter, given that blocking just about everyone seems to be his MO. His timeline must be very empty!
I wonder if you'll also do a video on SMTV, the last game announced in the 2017 show alongside Bayo 3 and NMH3 that took many years to complete
So Hellena decided she better be paid as good or better than the top voice actors in the gaming industry after not having voiced anything for 8 years when someone like Jennifer has been putting in consistent voice acting work for those same 8 years? Geesh is she full of herself.
Helena Taylor's counter offer was a joke, imagine being that greedy and delusional
I once had a Twitter interaction with Hideki Kamiya that DID NOT result in me being blocked. I told him Western developed games are less creative imo than games developed in Japan to which he said, "Interesting." I remain unblocked
This game did sorta come and go from The Discourse once it came out, aside from the backlash about the story/ending. Maybe Pokémon Scarlet and Violet releasing so soon after stole it’s thunder?
Well Bayo is also a niche title even with big daddy Nintendo behind it. Pokemon is a colossal franchise and a decades-long pillar of the Nintendo catalog.
Also, there’s always something happening in the Pokémon franchise, so there’s more of a constant media presence in that space.
tbh no one ever played Bayonetta because Helena was the VA so her demanding royalties just sounds a bit too much to me
I do like how Bayonettas kid is portrayed as a lovable screw up. It's comic relief that actually works out.
Yeah, cuz we know who the father is. Daughters take after that dads after all
@@TheNintenfan64 honestly at first I didnt like her based on trailer perspective but as i played she grew on me. XD viola has some rough edges that need smoothing out, but over time i see her becoming a really good witch.
I'm probably in the minority who LIKES Viola, although I think her character model could have been touched up a bit so she looks a bit less generic. Story-wise, her problem is she was kinda just shoved in our face and not really given enough time to have us warm up to her. She needed more time on-screen WITH Bayonetta, rather than by herself having her solo adventure.
you know i stumbled upon Matt McMuscels idk a mth or so a go and i have to say i love this its soo bloody entertaining .. i watch the videos on repeat i cant get enough .. i even have it on in the back ground whilst i do things around the house ... its imformative and bloody hell hes funny holy CRAP any way .. i know i am just but one person .. but you really make my day so i humbly thank you
Not going to lie, I've been holding off on buying this game due to the controversy, and not really having any idea wtf was going on. Thanks for clearing things up, skeleton man; I'll probably get it on my next paycheck. (Yes, I probably could have checked myself, but like hell I was going to brave the potential horror that is Twitter)
Good call. Save yourself from the poison that is Twitter. If you think you'd be interested and fun with Bayo 3, I highly recommend it. It was definitely a lot of fun despite some flaws.
General consensus is that gameplay is good, story is rotten, and the soul is kinda empty.
buy a cheap used copy, gameplay is great, story and some small moments in certain levels are pure garbage, save some money and buy used.
Ah yes the good ol
The game is fun loads of fun, gameplay is so much fun couldnt think of any other game for fun!
But story is bad so dont buy it its not fun
Avoid paying full price. Story sucks ass and feels like a dead game. Gameplay is fun but that's pretty much it.
Sweet man! Appreciate the weekend video
Shoutouts to Bayo 3 winning best action game at the game awards. Not saying the other games didn't deserve it, but Bayo 3 winning it felt like an appropriate final middle finger to Helena Taylor lol
Super cool to see Imran show up here!
Honestly I would very much disagree with the part of people being more aware of the voice actor situation.
This whole mess will make people doubt every single time any voice actor or developer mentions being underpaid cause "look at the bayo 3 lady".
Taylor did a lot of damage in this aspect.
I'd love to see one of these on Final Fantasy 12, since people forget just how LONG that one was in development, not even including all the tweaks that came after.
Let's not forget it did win award for best action games of the year
Honestly when i first saw the bayo 3 trailer on the Nintendo direct i just assumed it was them shadow dropping astral chain 2. It was a pleasant mix of surprise along with "its taking them forever to cancel this game". Now even this much later ive still not even bothered to pick it up lol
I’m still mad that many people harassed Jennifer Hale online, when she had nothing to do with the VA drama.
The dust on the WiiU Gamepad screen just says it all, doesn't it
It brings me happiness that the side that closed the matter with "BEWARE OF MY RULES" came out on the winning side.
Hoo boy! I knew this was going to happen eventually but didn’t expect it to be this soon and on time for the holidays. “Tis the season to be jolly and time to get naughty in this week episode of What Happened!” 🎉🎄😈😊🎅
I hope star fox zero is ported to Switch, cannot stand the Wii u controls
That last minute edit to throw in Cereza must have been a real curveball huh.
Also saw this one coming, it had so much to qualify and lordy lou it was as winding as I believed it to be.
How about What Won't Happen - Beyond Good and Evil 2
I wonder if this channel will tackle Inazuma Eleven - The Scales of Ares/Ares no Tenbin...errr, I mean Inazuma Eleven - The Heroes' Great Road/Eiyuu-tachi no Great Road...errr, Inazuma Eleven - The Heroes' Victory Road/Eiyuu-tachi no Victory Road when it finally comes out...after originally being scheduled for a release in 2018. Since just with some casual digging it already was easy to find it having a development Road very befitting of this channel. Also Road puns that'll write themselves, lol. Just not the standard fare for this channel, and might be harder to dig up more behind the scenes information, but even just some of the public stuff might make for a good video...again, once it hopefully really comes out next year, at the franchise's 15 year anniversary instead of the originally planned for 10 year anniversary with the Anime that was supposed to be the alternative version of it's story as they did on all previous main games too. Also had a gameplay-shift originally planned that they scrapped to get closer to the previous mainline games again, the shift even being shown off in betas some Japanese TH-camrs and press got access to.
Wait, I knew about the voice actor contro, but I never heard about the ending of it. She wanted to leave for the theater again, okay? Then leave?? Why make it into a controversy that didn't happen??? Did she think she was the captain of the ship & it needed to go down with her wtf was her goal here if she was done with videos games anyway?
Love how Matt’s “ooof” hits different.