Can we talk about how Tokyo Bayo (my fave variant) was the only one who actually managed to capture the true essence of Bayo? Her cheeky response to iridescent, her hunger to get revenge for Jeanne and her gorgeous look! I think she was the bravest of all. Also can we talk about the proportions of One and two's costumes, it seems like the character model is shorter so the looks seem smushed and not as tall and confident.
Let's just all hope that in Bayonetta 4 they go back to the original timeline and state that Bayonetta 3 was just a fever dream of a drunken Bayonetta.
While theres a lot wrong with Bayo3. There’s also a lot it does right. Demon masquerade is absolutely fantastic. The weapon variety is the best in the series bar none. The sacrifice of the feet weapons doesn’t bother me. Having these weapons encompass the entirety of Bayos body work much better. Gives them the opportunity to make a much more creative and deeper move set. My only gripe is Demon Slave. TAKE THAT SHIT OUT PLEASE!!! Completely slows down combat. Keep the massive monsters for climax moves.
Bayo 1 and 2: *knows where the enemies come from behind despite they're spouting sass* Bayo 3 AND VARIANTS: *SHOCKED to be not aware of every possibility where they're coming from*
I cannot agree more on the aesthetic part. Bayonetta should be about religious, angels & demons, solving ancient mysteries, not science fiction multi-dimension adventure. One thing I really enjoy in bayo 1 2 are collecting journals, learning the lore about the places we visit. With most stages in bayo 3 being empty huge spaces, the journals are downright boring.
Its the same theme of god and man. The singularity is a scientific and philosophical attempt to address the concept of god. And in this game they integrate middle eastern mythology which has a science fiction elements.
From the early trailers I knew something felt off when bayonetta's dancing for her summons felt less burlesque and more akin to a k-pop dance. Still I had fun with the game. But it's great to watch a critique that better articulated some of the issues I've had with bayonetta 3.
It's not just the dancing imo, Bayo in general just feels more girly rather that womanly with the plaits and the skirt (side note: that skirt clips in with every step she walks). I like the design, it's just not very bayonetta.
THANK YOU. I HATED when she just stood there like a statue when she was LITERALLY watching herself get killed, its lik the creators didnt even try to keep bayonettas brave and can do attitude. also egyptian bayonettta is my favorite varient
@@salemtheastra Honestly I barely even saw them as friends, Luka seems to be off doing his own thing all the time and he shows up to find Bayonetta, unlike Jeanne, Rodin and Enzo who seem to be around her much more often. Maybe just for work purposes, but still.
I also didn’t like that Bayonetta herself was quite throughout the game. What happened to her personality in this game? And standing there doing nothing to help the other Bayonettas was very disappointing and irritating.
And if you notice, during the finale when the original bayo appeared, the moment bayo 1 was in danger, bayo 2's immediate reaction was to activate witch time to save her. Something bayo 3 didn't even bother to do during the entirety of the story
(45:40) This right here. My main critique with Bayonetta 3. This game removed Bayonetta’s identity as a witch. Emphasized in the first game, she is an ancient witch brought to modern day- and felt like an antihero with a gray morality. She’s a user of the dark arts, but she weaponizes them with her feminine power, as that is the definition of the “witch” archetype. The demonic and witchy imagery from the first two games are just gone, with a minimal futuristic style for things like the menu screens. I know that’s a small detail but they add up to such a character who is closely linked to witchcraft and the lore surrounding it. Even the treasure chests are no longer lore relevant, just Golems instead of the original chests implied to be graves or memorials to fallen Umbra Witches. This was supposed to be the third installment, with many Triple Moon symbolism found in witchcraft today, I was hoping for the Maiden Mother Crone storyline or something more. They did such an amazing job pulling from real world mythology from Catholic and Pagan beliefs and I hoped to see more rich lore and history added to this installment. To quote the artists who designed the goddesses of reality (Jubileus and Sheba) were designed to resemble Bayonetta because they represent the most powerful divine feminine energy in this universe. (Jubileus/Paradiso, Sheba/Inferno, Cereza/Human World) And who doesn’t make an appearance in the third installment? The goddesses, which really just feels like they stripped Cereza from her heritage. Bayonetta 3 does feel so sanitized, which is shocking because when the series was ported to Nintendo, the company seemed more than willing to keep Bayonetta’s character very true (with minor censoring for family audiences.) To put it bluntly, this feels like they wanted to make Bayonetta a Marvel Superhero for today’s modern audiences. I mean come on. The multiverse, the science fiction themes, the revisions to the story, it just feels too corporate and greedy when Bayonetta is a style icon in terms of her identity, games, and in our hearts and minds as fans. So don’t fuck with our witch.
Absolutely spot on, I was so disappointed that this game adds NOTHING to the relatively well established world of Bayonetta, no new Lumen sages, angels or demons but only this neo-futuristic multiverse, I like how the new enemies are inspired by the climate/stratosphere, but it completely threw the original real-life inspirations away that formed the Bayonetta franchise
The funniest thing is that they've had 11 years (2008-2019) worth of Capcom's experience to learn from in making a passing the torch plot with Nero and DMC, only to fall flat AND gleefully assassinated their own main character. The more I see Bayo 3 the more I am glad DMC has been fully in Itsuno's hands since 3.
This was so well articulated…I think the dance moves from Maiko Uchida omitted from the game is really, really disheartening. Especially if we consider Brave Cereza wanted to be more like the variant she met in the future. Why is the characterization so retconned beyond repair. It leaves a bitter taste as a fan of Bayonetta gameplay and lore.
The theme for this bayo was "making her cuter" as stated by Platinum themselves... So yeah she was doomed to be toned down from the start, maybe they were not comfortable with smol grown up Cereza being so overtly sexy, which is kind of ridiculous? The dance already seems generic teenager k-pop style, so yeah, we got scammed from the beginning, and I have no faith for the future games either.
The fact that some people says "but he loves her from the first game and is always there for her" seems to blissfully ignore how she blatantly bullies the crap out of him on his creepiness. Also chasing her relentlesly is not as romantic as they think. Whoever believes that also fell for the Twilight trend of "guy who stalks girl until she gives up is so romantic, he's obvioulsy the best choice for her!" and is just absolutely unhealthy. Speaking of that, and I can't believe I'm writing this, but finally we have a love story that is worst than Twilight.
I do feel all the people making Bayo and Luka's romance out to have come completely out of nowhere are exaggerating just a teeny bit as well, seeing as there was a small glimpse of some genuine sentimentality to their dynamic at the end of Bayo 1. This is not to say the romance in Bayo 3, especially for how heartfelt and grand it was played up to be, would have been well set up by any means; it felt about as earned as two characters getting married as a conclusion to their romantic arc, that had so far consisted of a single date, where one of them stood the other up. Weird as it is to say, as things stand it does almost seem like Luka becoming a wolfman is what made all the difference. The first encounter with Strider at Umeda Sky Building is closest to the previous games' playful sexuality we get from Bayonetta in 3 and during their tag team during the final bossfight, she directly compliments how Luka's wolf form is an "improvement" to his regular looks.
I really felt like they betrayed us with how they characterized Cereza and killed her and Jeanne in bayo 3. They made such a great complex and strong character in bayo 1 and 2 making people look up to her and then just making her fizzle and die in bayo 3 like she didn't matter. I ugly cried at the bayo 3 ending out of pity for my girl...
Can we also just take a minute to just look at Viola's design and how she looks nothing like bayo OR Luka? Yeah obviously she's form a different universe but up until the end of the game i really did not think she was going to be their child, they look nothing alike
The only hint I could find was the bootleg cheshire plushie she has on her sword, that thing has Luka's scarf... and oh god I wished to be wrong so badly when I found out...
I don't think it's just Bayonetta who's gone, the original composer, Masami Ueda? Gone, the cinematographer? Gone, the writer? Gone, the actress? Gone, the director(s)? Also gone Reminder that for DMC5, they got one of 4's composers, the original actors, director, cinematographer and writer
This. The whole character is just missing and I know the argument could be made that this is a different timeline, but everything about the charcter of Bayonetta is missing in this game no matter what they did. The gameplay is as fun as the original 2 games, but it feels so off course from the previous games that I wish this game was worked on a bit longer.
When they used Viola to replace Bayo at the end it immediately reminded me of Borderlands 3, where they too used a character, who you barely get to know, to replace 2 beloved characters. Honestly, Viola had her moments but she needed more if they wanted to set her up as the new “Bayonetta”
The moment I saw Viola I knew I was just replaying Borderlands 3 tbh. They just replaced Bayonetta with Viola for the sake of Identity politics, just like what happened with Borderlands 3. Hence the tone down of jokes and in Bayonetta, sexiness
@@excaliburofgachagames9241 what on Earth does "identity politics" have to do with anything??? As far as I know, Viola isn't canonically LGBTQ+, and even if she was, why would that be a problem? Bayonetta is certainly a queer-coded character already. Are you just making up something to be upset about that isn't actually in the game at all?
@@telekinesticman if we go off of Bayonetta 3 story they made Bayonetta straight (to be fair I think I would liked her to be with no one so fans can have her be with anyone fitting her free will nature). What identity politics has done is purposely remove these straight characters by any means necessary often at the cost of gameplay, story, likeable characters, etc. It might sound like me just making stuff up but the exact same thing happened to borderlands 3 and sadly Bayonetta 3 got hit with it too. P.s: The change from let's dance boys to let's dance baby is a clear indicator as well. P.s2: in all honesty I hope this is all just in my head and maybe they did it just because Bayonetta had a change in voice actresses for English and this isn't actually what they were doing. It'd make me look like a fool but it would feel a lot better. But this is just what I'm thinking right now after seeing the miss treatment of beloved characters. P.s3: Also Viola made the ending super predictable. I knew the ending at the beginning of the game simply due to how borderlands 3 ended. No videos or posts spoiled me either. It was almost copy and paste on the abuse of beloved characters. It's the reason I play gacha games or indie games or fan service games over western influenced games these days.
Viola definitely did not have her moments They spend the entire game showing us she’s a little bit of a loser that wants to be respected And every opportunity they give her to actually show some growth and show that’s she’s been learning throughout the game are wasted, as time and time again she just fails over and over again Then they imply she’s taking the mantle Without showing us she actually deserves it She goes nowhere in the whole game and they want us to believe she can take the mantle? C’mon lol
The Straightonetta segment is pretty much all of my thoughts I couldn't put into words summed up perfectly. Thank you for being the first person I've seen to point out the absolute rug pull that all is.
I honestly have no clue what people are talking about. Jeanne is like her sister; the wake up kiss comment is a JOKE. OP even omits the second half of her quote to Luka because it throws their theory in the bin: "Come now Cheshire. Look at me. Do I look like I have any interest in children? *Now making them... Well, that's another story.* " The reason her romance with Luka is stupid is because Bayonetta wouldn't 'settle down' with *anyone* - she is foremost a free spirited woman, never tied down to anything. Honestly if she was casually sleeping with anyone, I'd guess Rodin, since she spends almost all her time hanging out with him, and he's probably one of the few who could keep up with her in bed. She definitely had a teasing, lightly-flirty interest in Luka, but at all times it was depicted as her holding the power in every scene with him, and his human romantic interest in her and flat attempts at 'courting' amused her. Saying that she is romantically interested in Jeanne feels reductive. Why can't it just be an actual healthy depiction of a platonic sisterly relationship?
Bi people exist, and i really think Jeanne means more to Cereza than a sisterly bond at this point. they're 600 years old and live together, shop together, plan parties together, die for eachother... do you see my point here? Bayo shouldn't really be with anyone because she's an independent woman and that's why it's never been explicitly stated, but if it were to be anyone it's jeanne. There's no way Bayonetta's not bisexual. that may just be my headcannon but the way she carries herself is an "everyone wants me no one can have me" and something about her being bi fits for me.
@@jennywithaglock3916 so you're saying that any two women who think of each other as sisters with a deep bond, given enough time spent together, should eventually become gay for each other?
@@Hugsloth No. im not saying that. I said there's enough Subtext and... just plain text and queer overtones that it's CERTAINLY plausible. im gonna take a wild guess and assume you're not queer. maybe stop talking about "becoming" gay LMFAO just run along with your bland headcanon that bayonetta is exclusively hetero, despite being sexually liberated to her extent.
I'd also like to point out that I clearly said in the video "if Bayonetta had to be paired up with anyone, it should have been Jeanne", not that she needed to be with Jeanne in the first place. Luka feels so out of nowhere, and if we're going to claim that the "wake-up kiss" line is a joke, then I hope you'll understand that I 100% view the "now making them, well that's another story" line about children to also be a joke. She's messing with Luka, intentionally making him uncomfortable and confused. She might legitimately enjoy sex with men, I never stated otherwise, she totally could be bisexual. But Luka?? I don't see it at all. Jeanne is the only character who is equal to Cereza, the only one who truly understands and respects her, and who she would already be spending most of her daily life with anyway. Most of the comments people have left addressing this element of the video really do come off as homophobic.
I might rag on Bayo 3 a bit too much, but it's hard to convey how much of a disappointment it was for me as someone who's been a massive fan of the games and the character all the way since 2009. Bayo 3 is a fun game, yet at the same time, it feels like a poor fanfic dead-set to divert its focus to anything besides what made the original so great in the first place...
I’m glad I wasn’t the only person to think the ending was terrible. I had so much fun with the alternate universes, which made the slog of the last fight annoying.
I steered clear of this one. When the previews and trailers came out, I saw people gushing about how amazing it looked, and I thought, "Are we watching the same videos?" The vibrant and beautiful visuals of the first two games had been replaced by drab, ugly settings. Everything just seemed off. But one thing the gushing fans and I did have in common was seeing the influence of Astral Chain. That, probably more than anything else, scared me off of Bayonetta 3. It had some cool elements, but overall, I didn't think Astral Chain was a good game.
@@ressljs Demon Slave is basically what happens you let the player use every ability the protagonist has in cutscenes in gameplay when the Wicked Weaves and QTEs were already good ways to include Bayo's summons in gameplay. They also could've rebalanced Umbran Climax so it isn't a win button like it was in 2 instead of trying to replace it with a new gimmick.
For as much as the game wants us to be invested in Bayo/Viola’s mother-daughter relationship, they spent very little time on it. The multiverse was a great opportunity to explore this dynamic (as Everything Everywhere all at Once has proven), but they completely waste it by killing off every Bayo before they can have a real conversation conversation. Viola herself doesn’t appear to have ANY counterparts, which could’ve been interesting to explore, but they waste that chance too.
Greatly apprecite you validating all the things that made Bayonetta 3 feel so off. The camera issues. Weird Pure Plat time goals. The inability to retry a single verse. The lack of costumes esp for Jeanne. The shoehorning of her love for Luka. And most importantly, the lost of that magical powerful and sexy and campy humor in Bayonetta's character writing. It's truly a shame that we waited this long for a game at this level of quality.
i appreciate the new voice actor for bayonetta so much but even i catch a lot of voice lines that helena would’ve characterized a lot better. her voice in the first two games is much more bouncy but i think that’s because she sounded really playful while also having a mature tone and jennifer’s rendition is very playful but it has more of a youthful tone instead
"uncomfortable? even a little cringe? And I actually had to reflect on that because...I'm playing bayonetta..." That alone is the biggest red flag on this whole situation. Even if this is the more innocent Cerecita version, she's still supposedly an adult here, so the fact that the most recognizable part of her personality, is intentionally making you cringe is just awful. They just had to show from the start that this is not OG Bayo, and then maybe, the sanitization would felt a bit more understandable. I guess.
@@Bane_Amesta Its a bit of this but also it felt like I was watching a fanservice scene from an anime. As TelekinesticMan said, formulaic. Like, it didn't matter. Its really awkward to do all of the fun sexy stuff only to get squashed down over and over emotionally, like the game is giving me a "NO FUN ALLOWED" sign. I wanna say the plot of 3 is just WAY TOO DIRE. Not that Bayonetta can't have a world ending plot, but there is no hope or optimism. Which is awful because joy in oneself, hope and optimism are very core to Bayonetta, not only in the gameplay, but also in Bayonetta herself. Its the very emotions that makes her sexiness work. But you lose, all the way to the end. Even if the after credits show a restored world, overall the story was too nihilistic for this game. All the moments that should be iconic feel squished in there as a tasteless nod to the past installments because of this oppressiveness. The game is at such odds with itself that everything falls apart, even Bayonetta herself. literally :')
@@irenekim8340 Oh, absolutely, this is too pessimistic to be a Bayonetta game. And you know what's even worse? That the whole story had no meaning anyways. Not just about the quest of finding the 5 thingies when the bad guy was always around. If the worlds got restored, and all the Bayos supposedly revived, then all th struggle was literally for nothing. It can be seen as one sacrifice to save everyone else, but that's NOT what happened. It was a bad decision (maybe two, I still think Viola didn't deserve to live lol) that lead to the "couple" going to hell for no real reason whatsoever. And with a "successor" that clearly doesn't deserve the title. Btw, about the sexiness, it also doesn't matter either, specially the naive mode included, she's never naked for more than what, 3 seconds? And the camera goes away. They already toned this down on 2, when she has more hair covering her body than 1, and the camera moves away faster as well. Now in 3 is literally nothing lol. I'd say is isn't really a huge loss since her dancing isn't sexy enough to watch either. As a woman is not really a huge deal for me (in a horny fan service way I mean), but even I can see how this decision damaged her character even more
The only one that died was the cereza you played as, all of the other ones including 1st and 2nd games were revived along with their worlds so they're still around
@asmobeel they're all gliching out at the end because they're existing across multiple worlds and only dissappear because singularity retracted from said world's to better stabilize himself, plus bayo 1 and 2 are fine from what it seemed
I will certainly not miss Cereza because I don't care about her like AT ALL. For me it's OG Bayo or nothing, even less a Bayonetta wannabe like Cereza...
I couldn't care less if people like Bayonetta x Luka, it's just not something I enjoy, but the defenses I've seen for Bayonetta "falling in love with him" confuse me. So many people say she cared about his well-being in the first game and made some sexual comments towards him. And? Seriously, respecting someone more as a friendly acquaintance doesn't mean you're in love with them. And Bayonetta made sexual comments towards him. Yeah, that's what she tends to do in general. The openly sexual dominatrix witch saying something sexual isn't that mind blowing. Also while I do prefer Helena Taylor's voice, I understand why she was replaced. She was paid well for her role as Bayonetta, but she instead decided to leave out the fact that she would be getting $4,000 for every acting session she was given, which was 5, and being still being offered $4,000 for cameoing as Bayos 1 and 2 after rejecting the entire role. That is on top of her shooting herself in the foot by begging the people who hadn't preordered the game to donate to an anti-abortion clinic, supporting the "blue lives matter" crowd in the midst of police brutality against black people and her implied unwillingness to support trans rights, three things I as a black trans man find especially repulsive. I won't be buying Bayo 3, but I do hope Jennifer can grow on people and improve over time.
Im really glad how you mentioned that her nudity is never seen at all in 3. Even though we've seen and heard multiple times that Nintendo leaves a lot of creativity and freedom to their development teams, especially for Platinum, it really makes me wonder if they were more strict with Bayonetta 3's development. Oddly in 3 they sneakily try to cover Bayonetta's nudity during infernal summons-even though she's already covered due to the hair wrapped around her, they really try to make sure she is seen as less as possible during the scenes-they even put the portal in front of her so the hair that is pulling out the demon blocks her body. Along with the pole dancing scene at the end being shown through that circle gear object and not the full screen with the scene. The scene also cuts to gameplay sequences during it which has never been done before.
Fun fact, they already toned down this in Bayo 2. Yes you can see her naked, but those moments last just a few seconds, meanwhile in 1 she was barely covered and always in the best camera angle so show her off. I compared the first infernal summons in both games, and in 2 she has more hair around covering her than 1. So is not something exclusive from 3.
@@excaliburofgachagames9241 yeah it's weird that they'd shift the protagonist (supposedly) to Viola. Viola is a cute character but I would've liked if we had spent more time with her to achieve that lead character status. I'm genuinely interested what happened within the 5+ish years of this game's development.
I feel like bayonetta left with Helena Taylor’s soul. Nothing like her. Her sass her self her independence the way she fool around with the demons her dance moves. I would forever respect that woman even with all the controversies.
I completely agree. But even then, the game is so riddled with issues that even I don't think Taylor's inclusion would have made the experience any better.
@@justinluc2572 if you saw how the cut content was and how bayo 1 and 2 appears in their respective places, with labolas being fully summoned and rodin and jeanne's chapters, hellena would've been such a nice and distinct "variant" that it'd be nice to see all three interact...
ABSOLUTELY! I definitely relate to your reaction of the ending, as a lesbian who found a lot of comfort and acceptance through bayonetta because of how unafraid she is to be herself, her campiness, and the queer undertone with her and Jeanne.. the ending was a slap in the face.. of course I wasn’t expecting her to get with Jeanne at all but getting her with the creepy stalker guy.. *shudder*
Honestly speaking even without the correct story writing which I completely agree with. Jennifer did not bring the characters voice to life like Hellena Taylor did and that is what it is. I know I might receive hate for that, but a fact is simply a fact.
I personally disagree I really liked Jennifer's interpretation of thr role and really loved listening to her. But i understand why people don't like how different it feels and piled up with all the problems of this game it just makes it feel worse.
Gonna be honest, Bayo should have been paired with no one. Even with Jeanne, it felt like a 'sisterhood' type deal. It's okay to have female protagonist without love interest. Just like it's okay to have male ones.
Same, as someone that isn't very interested in love and is kind of bored by how fictions always kind of shoehorn romance, I liked to have a celibate and badass character like Bayo.
Bro I have no idea where the Bayo x Jeanne thing even comes from. I just played 1 and 2 and nothing concrete there made me feel that the two were in some kind of relationship. With Luka, I can kind of see it, but there’s almost zero development in their relationship after 1.
omg your ending conclusion... I am so happy for the me who got to experience that other universe! Thank you for this! It was the most heartbreaking end I've ever felt. I had no idea what I was crying for as the credits rolled because so much had happened.
It felt particularly weird to me for Bayonetta to end up with Luka because I just can’t see her with someone who isn’t on the same “level” as her, so to speak. Bayo exudes class and grace, sexuality and power. Luka provided a foil to her because he had none of that, and that contrast was great for comedy. That said, it is exactly because he has none of those qualities that it feels so odd for her to end up with Luka. Never mind the fact that she is over 500 years old and will ostensibly continue to live for hundreds of more years, while Luka lives the relatively short lifespan of a human (that is, until he became a faerie I guess?). The only character in the game which had all of these qualities that are so central to Bayonetta as a character is Jeanne. She also is the one who knows Bayonetta the most and has been through thick and thin with her. A relationship between the two of them just felt natural. So natural, in fact, that I just assumed they were in one and it wouldn’t ever be officially confirmed, just implied, until this game threw that out the window. I have to wonder if the reason for that was literally just so they could shoehorn in the new generation of Bayonetta in the form of Viola. If so, that was a colossally bad choice, particularly given the fact that Viola as a character didn’t even pay off.
I feel bad for Viola because I was already not loving her character design and dialogue in trailers, but she did grow on me a tiny bit while playing the final game. But then she has *nothing* to do in the story, she has no character arc or anything. She feels very expendable and pointless other than her gameplay, which I still think is really fun.
@@telekinesticmanI really wish i could take Viola's character and do more with them. I don't mind the idea of a kid being more an opposite to the parent but she really needed more to her. Her three mission sequences would have been so much better if she passed them albeit clumsily. So when she fails to protect Bayonetta at the end it feels stronger because she really is s noob at the end of the day.
Your analysis is so on point it hurts. You gave Bayonetta a proper burial, which is the least any of us could do. I hope she rises from her grave eventually, but this will leave a dark mark on her legacy.
This is an incredibly thorough and fair breakdown of the game! You carry an obvious sense of love, knowledge, and passion for the series, which only enhances your honest criticisms. The world of game analysis needs more reviews like this one. One day I'll put aside time to actually sit down and play those first two games. I've always loved their sense of style, and anything with direct involvement from Kamiya is generally worth checking out. Bayo 3 never really quite interested me as much, even before the real-world controversies and story revelations kicked in. Something always seemed off, even from the viewpoint of an outsider like myself. I also think it just sucks that Nintendo hardware has to hold such a technically ambitious game back, like this. And the story? Maaan, it is such a letdown to know just how much it missed the mark. It's a little offensive just how forced the heteronormative romance aspect is, and I am already growing insanely tired of multiverse gimmicks.
I’m a huge Bayonetta fan. I can tell you that the story of Bayonetta 3 just isn’t right. Bayonetta attitude was off throughout the whole and the romance was lame. Luka and Bayonetta never should have happened. Bayonetta in previous game never showed any interest in him at all. Also the story of Bayonetta 3 sucks. Bayonetta ending at the end was distasteful. I believe to add a dramatic twist and effect. 😮
Heteronormative romance? Lmao, do you even know who Bayonetta is, back in 2009 all people complained about was her being too sexual and how she was made for the male gaze, and for some reason since 2014 a bunch of idiots decided to put a sexuality on her. Luka and Bayonetta go way back, in their own way, people never saw the developer documentaries, people just decide to be ignorant and cry about some delusional shit that ain’t even theirs. I can tell many of you don’t even follow Kamiya, and trust someone random on the internet posting stupid ass “facts” with “trust me bro” sources more than the creator and story writer himself lmao.
For the confusion of Bayo 2 appearing alongside Bayo 1, it took me a while to understand myself, but with a bit of research I learned that the Records of Time, prologue chapter, of Bayonetta 2, show an alternate Bayonetta which never encountered young Balder until she traveled back in time. So essentially the Bayo 2 near the end of the game, is that Bayo from the Records of Time. Although having been through the same as Bayo 1, it's the her meeting of young Balder that splits the timelines. I also learned through other various videos, that even though Brave Cereza didn't go through the 500 sleep, her awakening the left eye, resonated with the other universes left eyes, and thus Bayo 1 awakened hers. I had to lots of videos to understand all this lol
Yeah I agree with everything in the video. The main reason this game turned me off is just how...restricted bayonetta feels. Like when she danced before it felt awesome and she was just flaunting and taunting the angels. Now it just felt like a tap dance routine that I would rather see Enzo or Viola try and do. Even the voice sounded less seductive/domineering and more...what a highschool kid thinks sounding sexy is like. To shorten it, I don't care how fun the game play wa. If it doesn't feel like the character then it won't feel right playing them. Edit: sound track does go hard tho
Commenting as I go here, but I'm really glad you brought up the fact that Demon Slave is mandatory. My first playthrough, I was playing it like a Bayonetta game, maybe with the demon slave coming in every now and then. I'm not some pro player, but I noticed I kept getting golds on times and I was like wtf I was doing all that I could there. Eventually, I realised that they want you to do most of the heavy lifting with Demon Slave because they melt healthbars and taking down enemies without it is such a chore. It's like they didn't even realise what was good about the first game and for both 2 and 3 have felt the need to tack on these gimmicks instead of doing what the first game did but better. Like the fact that Witch Time isn't required in 1, makes me want to play because I don't have the best timing but I can still manage and have fun. The demon slave doesn't make me feel powerful and I think that's something they nailed in 1, the more powerful you as the player get the more magic you get in fights to easily dispatch certain enemies with torture attacks or wicked weaves. At the sound mixing section currently and I couldn't agree more. Viola was unbearable to play as because for some reason they made her pant when she walks and runs and it's so loud and personally distracts me. I don't think I've ever experienced that in a hack n slash game. The ranking system is absolutely an improvement if you ask me, I would never even bother trying to platinum Bayo 3 if you couldn't save your progress. This simple change makes me feel happy when I do manage to platinum one of those gameplay change segments, because if that weren't the case I'd feel so drained playing these missions pure platinum, just to lose it right at the end for a one off gameplay segment. That's one thing 1 could have done with for shit like Isla Del Sol or Route 666. Also, this goes off the point you brought up on the lack of costumes, was anyone else pretty bummed out when we didn't even get the fake dress she makes in the intro as an alt or her casual attire for that matter? I'm so used to seeing the first cutscene getups and later being able to play in those getups and it was extremely disappointing that they had nothing when the previous games absolutely spoiled us. I almost feel it's unfair to compare Jennifer Hale's performance to Helena's because it's not the same character anyway, I'd list off the reasons but you've done more than enough heavy lifting for that point there. And yes, Bayo should be 1 character. The multiverse story is something I really wish they didn't go for, I hate all this speculation it's caused because it makes things needlessly complicated. Viola's main problem was the constant hinting at being Bayo's kid for me, first cutscene and she goes "I'm your..." and immediately it's clear and the whole game I was thinking "Just say it, just say it, just say it, just say it" because it's not surprising yet it wants you to be like OMG SHE'S BAYONETTA'S DAUGHTER COOL. Also the joke about "The name's Viola" genuinely could have worked if I think the second time we hear it she wasn't unbearably obnoxious with the "MY NAME IS VIOLA! V-I-O-L-FUCKING-A! VIOLA!" and then smiles like yeahhh I'm a badass, I fuckin hated that scene man lmao. If there was some build up to her using the naughty fuck word, it could have worked. But they blew their load too early and everyone after that just becomes her catchphrase and weaker in comparison because she's never that angry at being called Kitty again. Yes, they 100% did Jeanne dirty. It doesn't matter if her death didn't mean something, it's the fact that she died and no one cared. Shit fuckin sucks man because when you see them popping off in one, fighting one on one, equal in skill, it was so cool and so important to the genre. Just sucks that she was shafted so hard, to make room for the ETERNAL SHIP! LUKA X BAYO 4 EVER! Fuck out of here man. I'm also annoyed at the people who say people are just mad she's not gay. And it's 100% not that, it's the fact it's with Luka. Not someone fuckin good enough for the god slayer that is Bayo. Thank you for reading my fuckin novel here, it's a tad disjointed but I was writing as I was going through the video and I just have to say well fuckin done man because you put my thoughts into words exactly. I feel like this is a fascinating game to study for everything it gets wrong and should be used as an example of how not to do your hack n slash games. It's beautiful how DMC5 got everything so right, where Bayo 3 dropped the ball many of times. Truly two masterpieces, two sides of the same coin. Brilliant.
I think a big disappointment for this game for me is also the complete absence of Loki. As far as I can recall they don't even mention him, along with Balder the two of them are completely gone from the narrative. it could have even been a nice circle with Loki calling the Bayo 3's Bayonetta ' Cereza' since he didn't think the Bayonetta he met fit the name, it's even worse when the end of 2 emphasized the fact that they would most likely see each other again. Balder's absence is excusable because of the time loop, but it does also doesn't feel like a Bayonetta game without him either.
This is thorough! From gameplay, to characters, to music, to story! Thank you. I actually loved the game but understand 100% of the criticism against it and if anything, it makes me want to play the first two games (that I did not play again after they were released back in the day) again. This quote from your conclusion is insane : "It may seem ridiculous to think that Platinum would seriously consider their hypothetical next sequel to not even feature their beloved protagonist from previous entries ...until you realize that's exactly what Bayonetta 3 already is. A Bayonetta game without Bayonetta."
Luka and Bayonetta becoming soul mates is kinda annoying because it affirms to dated idea that man and woman cannot legit just be friends and instead always wish to advance to romantic interest
I come back to this video every once in a while since the release of Bayo3 as some sort of eulogy to a passed friend. You nailed the head on nearly everything wrong with the game and what we loved about the past two installments. It's a great shame how it turned out this way, and how it probably will never be the same ever again. I hope you realize that this video brings a great comfort to those who had a great emotional connection to this franchise who felt Bayonetta3 spat in the face of its most loyal and hardcore fans and its own legacy. Some of us are still in the grieving process, and it's because of you that this video helps cushion the blows every time they resurface themselves. Thank you.
I love how in all of this you didn't even touch on the fact that Luka is suddenly a werewolf out of nowhere lmao. Great critique though! Most reviewers don't delve into the Jeanne relationship unless they're actively LGBT, and completely miss all the text and subtext that you pointed out.
I cannot find a single thing that I disagree with in this video. This was perfectly said and thoroughly explained right up until the end. Absolutely Love This!!!
With the demonic summons, in Bayonetta 3, it really does seem like Kamiya saw what Itsuno was doing in Devil May Cry 5 and thought, "I'd do that, but bigger! Because bigger is better and it always been!" However, in order to make it work, Kamiya nerfed the characters' damage output and made enemies throw up shields, meaning you're forced into using the demonic summons that feels like their too powerful and you can end up cheesing your way through the game using them. Especially when the game is always actively throwing meter at you to use them. Also between Not Nero, who's set up to be the new face of the franchise, with her Not Devil Trigger. The chainsaw motorbike thats now a chainsaw train. The magic cowboy hat thats now a magic top hat and S(h)in Devil Trigger and S(h)in Gomorrah, it really does make me wonder, does Kamiya have any original ideas of his own anymore, or is just looking to copy Itsuno's homework from here on out? I really don't have any problems with Bayonetta making references to Devil May Cry with Kamiya's work on it, but this is practically plagiarism at this point.. Oh! And Luka's Bayo 3's sheepskin lined coat being pretty much ripped off from a scrapped Dante concept costume from DMC4, and as if it wasn't obvious enough they were trying to make him like Dante, might as well give him the cowboy hat as well 🙄
That's a big thing, right there. The Shields that require a singular mechanic are always, and will always be, the worst. Member DmC? Peppridge Farms members.
@@connorburris4846 after playing through Bayonetta 3, I moved onto Sonic Frontiers, and with some enemies when you looked at attacking, what would the very first they'd do? "Quick! Retreat into our boxes! Unless Sonic does that one specific move (the cyloop), there's no way he can get through our defenses!" Which really had me thinking, am I just playing Bayonetta 3 again? Though I will at least give Bayonetta 3 some credit for having enemies that show interest in attacking you, as well as a parry that actually requires some skill, than hold down the parry button for as long as you need then there'd be a chance to let the game play itself for you. It was quite disappointing because I did have some hopes for Frontiers' combat when it was showing of some character action game qualities like launchers, air juggles and parrying and it might be the only good thing about the game, given the focus on copy, pasted levels with Cyberspace, as we go for third trip down memory lane 🙄 Sadly it was quite shallow - it didn't even have timed combo strings - and with it featuring a rapidfire projectile move that was was so overpowered it had me thinking, am I playing DMC2 again? It was not a very good time, going from one underwhelming game, I forced my through, to another 😆😅 Though things did get better, as I started Okami after that
Thank you so much for this Video. It is truly fantastic! Bayonetta means so much to me and you summed up my feelings towards this game perfectly. I was shocked and felt speechless. I know this sounds dramatic but I still can‘t get over this empty feeling. Well, I guess it‘s time to replay the Bayonetta duology again and to dance under the moon once more. Keep up the good work, this video is amazing! 🌕
Just started this and finished bayonetta 3 yesterday honestly can say it has some of the best music I’ve heard but lord the story was really just bland for me
The omly thing I disagree with is saying this isn't the Bayonetta I knew from the previous games. Because this is cereza who is from a different universe and has different ways of carrying herself while still being Bayonetta in the end as her personality and methods stay the same and it feel authentic.
On one hand I'm sorry, but on the other, I did want this video to capture the feeling I had when finishing this game. I remember watching the awful cutscene with Bayo and Luka kissing, and then feeling conflicted during the dance to Hell. This wasn't my Bayonetta, so I wasn't particularly sad to see *this* variant die, but it still symbolised the death of the character in general, assisted with a quite powerful, emotional song. Then, when the music picks up for the Bayo 2 flashback images, I started crying. That was when it really hit hard that she just felt so wrong this game, and how it was borderline offensive to see them suddenly showing flashbacks to the character I actually liked! And then another punch in the gut with the Bayo 1 images too, I remember almost crying again when first editing this intro and having to watch that dance one more time. Watching her last crystal shard contain an image of her and Luka was certainly not making things better. And after all that, including the Viola Kraken fight, the pole dance, and the torch-passing moment, I was still teary-eyed and felt awful. But it was when the Bayo 1 and 2 variants appeared in the final dance that I really started crying again. I was watching this weirdly choreographed dance sequence with an admittedly great remix of one of my favourite tracks from the original game, but seeing the "real" Bayonetta(s) again was the final shot through the heart, not helped by seeing Jeanne dancing alongside them. It was just like "she's right there, I can see her, even though she looks kind of ugly now and sounds different, why did they take her away from me?". That was when the concluding statement really hit me, which is why I included that shot at the end of the video as well. A Bayonetta game without Bayonetta.
@@telekinesticman I hated the dance sm I was literally yelling at my TV like "WHY TF ARE YOU DANCING LIKE IT'S A HAPPY ENDING!!" I've been playing this game since I was 9 years old. the closest thing I can describe it to is losing a dear friend. Thank you for this video I'm thankful that someone was able to put into words on why most OG Bayonetta fans felt betrayed or hurt by Bayonetta 3 plot. Thank you for this masterpeice🙏
Thank you :) it might be my favourite video of mine so far, if not for some repetitive wording and sentence structure that I didn't notice until after the video was uploaded.
Thank you, you are the first one to rreally express my point of view of this game, specially, the cutscenes laughs that dissapear on the third and also the graphics and the character who was much better in the second game and also the fact that Bayo 1 and Bayo 2 were the same persons before the third... I also drop a tear at the ending, for the same reason as you... I just hope, someday, somehow, we're gonna to have again our original Bayo
37:29 Thank you. Thank you so much. I really don't understand what was going on when they did this. I had so many thoughts in my head during that scene in the ending and trying to figure out what I was supposed to feel.
I don't agree with absolutely everything said here, but I was blown away by how close the angles we view the series from are. Excellent criticism and analysis of this strange game!
i havent finished playing the third game, but there are moments in which it seems like im playing devil may cry 2 all over again, the emptyness of some levels, the overall missed character growth for previous games and Bayonetta just seems like a different person .
You pretty much touched on everything I noted during my first playthrough of the game, the witch time especially stood out to me because after a certain point I just put on Evil Rosary Beads (the accessory that swaps witch time for the magic explosion) instead of relying on it. The amount of time you actually have is so short even with perfect dodges/parries that I couldn't even get much damage out of it. With Viola especially this is pretty apparent since her parry not only has recovery during the witch time, but it also pushes enemies back meaning that unless you summon Chesire right away you end up wasting more time getting back to the enemy to do damage than you do attacking them.
Good news! I'll have to verify some of the changes myself, but it seems like Platinum have addressed a lot of the gameplay issues in their most recent patch for Bayonetta 3. I was not expecting any further updates to the game at all, so this is a fun surprise, even if it somewhat invalidates elements of this video. en-americas-support.nintendo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/60160/~/how-to-update-bayonetta-3#v120
@Buzz Buzz Thanks so much! I don't think I'll make an entire follow-up video or anything. Mayyybe if I did a video on Bayonetta Origins I could include some segments about the Bayo 3 updates. But right now I don't even know if I'll buy Bayo Origins, that sucker is $80 and I don't even care as much about the story anymore.
@@telekinesticman It cost that much then I suggest waiting for the price to get lower. Also what I did find this video quite interesting I don't really agree with the character assassination part honestly if you want to see character assassination go play metroid the other M that is character assassination. This feels more like watering down a character if anything. But I do agree with the whole Luka thing It should have been her and John, But I still like Viola so instead of making her her real life daughter maybe they could have done something like saying she was just an orphan kid who bayonetta and John adopted to trying to become an umbrella witch. But goes through a rebellious teen phase which explains her design, Because personally I like the character.
God I love thank you. I got so mad seeing the skill tree in Bayo 3. Especially seeing that a lot of the moves were just functionally the same moves across all the weapons. Some of them were unique, but for the most part most of the was like buying after burner kick, charged bullets, witch twist like 8 different times and that was just suuuuper annoying. The only reason I noticed this however was because I had Bayo 1 and 2 on my switch so when I got the guns from 1 and 2 I bounced that they have the same moves but I had to unlock them all individually....for BOTH GUNS
this game seriously felt like it was rushed out of the door despite cooking for almost 8 years, like why is luka a wolf? what is viola's fairy-like transformation? if the bayonetta's from 1 and 2 are from different universes, how does that explain the scene in bayo 2 of father balder dying alongside the destroyed jubileus statue? WHY DO THE ENEMIES LOOK THE SAME????
Here is tip: A game that takes more than 5 years of develoment, 90% of time it will be a disater. Even if it had 8 years of develoment, it may took then 6-7 to have a clear idea of what to do, and because the are tight on time and resources, they are forced to use stuff they made in those 6 years, even if they were from a different type of game and doesn't fit at all. This affects both gameplay and story, which may explain a lot of stuff in bayo 3.
Amazing intro and outro man! Made me bawl my eyes out all over again. "This isn't the women I once worshiped and adored" I'm still trying to recover from her loss and you truly said it so beautifully "A Bayonetta game without Bayonetta🥺"
Wait, she doesn't continue shooting if you hold the button? That was one of the character's most iconic abilities! That would be like if sonic couldn't use his spindash- oh right...
The multiverse theme it's clearly not made for this series, at least not by the hands of its actual writers and that's a fact, I would have enjoyed it a lot more if they just kept the time paradox issues from the first two games. I personally love Bayonetta's new design (it might even be my favourite) and it could have been a gorgeous way to portray her persona as the same we've been in touch with until now but actually embracing her past inner child, but everything was thrown away with a very bad multiverse plot. A plot which didn't only restrict us from playing with the witch we love watering down her personality and doing whatever nonsense with the character under the excuse that she's just not her, but also executing very poorly and uninterestingly its major appeal, which was meeting different versions of Bayo which are sadly not as cool, nor interesting (not at least from what we know since they didn't do anything) as the original one.
Tbh, I thought they were gonna play more with the fact her 3 design looks like an interpretation of the "barely legal/18+ version of young character" fetish. This is a franchise where she almost got a infantilism costume, after all, which would've been way worse then showing fanservice on the level of the last 2 games with an adult Cereza.
36:20 Ngl if the main character wasn’t brave cereza I’d more more mad about the voice change but the way Hale said “you didn’t cry while I was gone did you?” with OG Bayonetta legitimacy made me emotional because I was temporarily convinced it was Taylor.
I'm a fan of Bayonetta from the PS3 days. I must agree. Bayonetta 3's shortcomings were pretty obvious. Thank you for sharing this video. Great work TelekinesticMan! I agree with you 100%!
This video is exactly what the most hardcore Bayo fans want to say but can't quite put into words... The conclusion of this video hits really hard because that's exactly how i feel about this game - a Bayonetta game without Bayonetta
In the starightonetta segment, as much as I don't ship Bayo with Jeanne (they have more of a sister relationship imo and I dont mind if they do end up together) and ship her with Luka, I do agree that her sudden romantic feelings for Luka was out of nowhere. No development whatsoever like it could be nice that they showed us that they are in a relationship or show beforehand that she IS interested in him and vice versa but it felt flat to actually seeing it happening despite shipping them for years. I mean it's cute that they had a daughter in another timeline but my god their relationship is so underdeveloped that Bayo with Jeanne makes so much sense. I honestly prefer she doesn't end up with anyone
Perfect critique! Thank you for giving so much detail on how this game completely failed Bayonetta as a character. They (Kamiya) thought so little of her, they'd give her name away and replace her with a character that hasn't proven herself yet... And didn't this character spend so much screentime trying to assert their name in the first place? Only to be called Bayonetta in the end? Lol. Poor Jeanne was unceremoniously discarded too. Lka's arc made 200% more sense as Jeanne's arc (why was he dragged to hell??) Jeanne has been written to die for Bayo so many times but without really any exploration from the writers on why she's so intent on doing it in every universe. In any case, they could've just followed the same formula in 1 and 2 where Bayo does not end up in a romance... Yet they decided on the absolute undeserving and skeevy person and undermines what her character has been about.
As a massive Bayonetta fan, I can only agree with just about every point you make here. It's such a shame. There's so much greatness in this title, but you're right, this Bayonetta just flat-out isn't Bayonetta. And that hurts deeply. But even aside that, I agree about the combat and enemies too. I find the massive enemies frustrating to fight, to the point I'd rather just be playing Bayonetta 1 or 2 (my personal favourite). I will always love these games and Bayonetta as a character. She has meant more to me than I even realised myself (which I do have to admit, seeing moments from 1 and 2 fly by in the credits did make me realise that). But this game, as much as it hurts to say, just didn't do her justice.
i’m glad i’m not seeing any disrespect to the new VA for bayonetta. i think jennifer did a great job with what she was given, but what she was given wasn’t great. i think she did manage to capture the essence of bayonetta but from a different angle and i think she’ll make an even better one with a better script.
Im gonna miss the OG bayo VA and in game sassy voice lines, brutal torture attacks, and the balance theme between paradiso and inferno... Since the games are seem to be focusing more on Fairies and ancient magic arts.
A Bayonetta game without Bayonetta. You put it so perfectly, I feel like we were so betrayed with her character assassination
But Bayonetta would be in the game. Bayonetta isn’t a name but a title.
@@ACagedBird364 look.. viola sucks mate. plus shes uggo compared to cereza
@@ACagedBird364 Bayonetta is also a personality and look, hense why each game follows a theme aesthetically.
Assassination is a stretch
Can we talk about how Tokyo Bayo (my fave variant) was the only one who actually managed to capture the true essence of Bayo? Her cheeky response to iridescent, her hunger to get revenge for Jeanne and her gorgeous look! I think she was the bravest of all. Also can we talk about the proportions of One and two's costumes, it seems like the character model is shorter so the looks seem smushed and not as tall and confident.
It's a shame that Tokyonetta was inexperienced. She had just recently become an Umbra Witch, which ultimately led to her demise 😔
@@TheLittleSpoonz I KNOW I HATE IT SO MUCH THO. LIKE OMG..
No. Tokyo Bayo looks like TikTok-Witch.
Let's just all hope that in Bayonetta 4 they go back to the original timeline and state that Bayonetta 3 was just a fever dream of a drunken Bayonetta.
I also have this for Thor after how bad Love and Thunder turned out.
I don't think this will ever happen considering the soon to be released Bayonetta Origins. 😥
I kinda like the idea of bayonetta origins
But even if that’s good, i want to just let go off it.
Bayonetta as we knew it is done
Technically speaking, Bayo3 is essentially about a different timeline altogether and probably doesn't affect the other game's timelines
While theres a lot wrong with Bayo3. There’s also a lot it does right. Demon masquerade is absolutely fantastic. The weapon variety is the best in the series bar none. The sacrifice of the feet weapons doesn’t bother me. Having these weapons encompass the entirety of Bayos body work much better. Gives them the opportunity to make a much more creative and deeper move set. My only gripe is Demon Slave. TAKE THAT SHIT OUT PLEASE!!! Completely slows down combat. Keep the massive monsters for climax moves.
Bayo 1 and 2: *knows where the enemies come from behind despite they're spouting sass*
Bayo 3 AND VARIANTS: *SHOCKED to be not aware of every possibility where they're coming from*
I cannot agree more on the aesthetic part. Bayonetta should be about religious, angels & demons, solving ancient mysteries, not science fiction multi-dimension adventure. One thing I really enjoy in bayo 1 2 are collecting journals, learning the lore about the places we visit. With most stages in bayo 3 being empty huge spaces, the journals are downright boring.
The enemies are cool for how they could relate to Religion, so splitting off the angels and demons from them is sad.
@Justice Angel's and demons have been exposed, and there was nothing to go with the lore after the fact.
@@maddeninghustle6919 Bullshit. Artificial humans are a problematic subject for them for technically not being a creation of God.
Its the same theme of god and man. The singularity is a scientific and philosophical attempt to address the concept of god. And in this game they integrate middle eastern mythology which has a science fiction elements.
@@Theyungcity23 it's unfortunate how Bayo 3 needed the power of God to actually be a good game.
From the early trailers I knew something felt off when bayonetta's dancing for her summons felt less burlesque and more akin to a k-pop dance. Still I had fun with the game. But it's great to watch a critique that better articulated some of the issues I've had with bayonetta 3.
Jpop.
It's not just the dancing imo, Bayo in general just feels more girly rather that womanly with the plaits and the skirt (side note: that skirt clips in with every step she walks). I like the design, it's just not very bayonetta.
THANK YOU. I HATED when she just stood there like a statue when she was LITERALLY watching herself get killed, its lik the creators didnt even try to keep bayonettas brave and can do attitude. also egyptian bayonettta is my favorite varient
Also i hatd the bayo x luka ship, it felt so forced and out of nowhere i always saw them as more close friends
@@salemtheastra Honestly I barely even saw them as friends, Luka seems to be off doing his own thing all the time and he shows up to find Bayonetta, unlike Jeanne, Rodin and Enzo who seem to be around her much more often. Maybe just for work purposes, but still.
I also didn’t like that Bayonetta herself was quite throughout the game. What happened to her personality in this game? And standing there doing nothing to help the other Bayonettas was very disappointing and irritating.
@@jaguar4120 the hormonal I were emotionless and boring enemies and I think Jennifer was quite expensive so she eats very little sadly
And if you notice, during the finale when the original bayo appeared, the moment bayo 1 was in danger, bayo 2's immediate reaction was to activate witch time to save her. Something bayo 3 didn't even bother to do during the entirety of the story
(45:40)
This right here.
My main critique with Bayonetta 3. This game removed Bayonetta’s identity as a witch.
Emphasized in the first game, she is an ancient witch brought to modern day- and felt like an antihero with a gray morality. She’s a user of the dark arts, but she weaponizes them with her feminine power, as that is the definition of the “witch” archetype. The demonic and witchy imagery from the first two games are just gone, with a minimal futuristic style for things like the menu screens. I know that’s a small detail but they add up to such a character who is closely linked to witchcraft and the lore surrounding it. Even the treasure chests are no longer lore relevant, just Golems instead of the original chests implied to be graves or memorials to fallen Umbra Witches. This was supposed to be the third installment, with many Triple Moon symbolism found in witchcraft today, I was hoping for the Maiden Mother Crone storyline or something more. They did such an amazing job pulling from real world mythology from Catholic and Pagan beliefs and I hoped to see more rich lore and history added to this installment. To quote the artists who designed the goddesses of reality (Jubileus and Sheba) were designed to resemble Bayonetta because they represent the most powerful divine feminine energy in this universe. (Jubileus/Paradiso, Sheba/Inferno, Cereza/Human World) And who doesn’t make an appearance in the third installment? The goddesses, which really just feels like they stripped Cereza from her heritage. Bayonetta 3 does feel so sanitized, which is shocking because when the series was ported to Nintendo, the company seemed more than willing to keep Bayonetta’s character very true (with minor censoring for family audiences.)
To put it bluntly, this feels like they wanted to make Bayonetta a Marvel Superhero for today’s modern audiences.
I mean come on. The multiverse, the science fiction themes, the revisions to the story, it just feels too corporate and greedy when Bayonetta is a style icon in terms of her identity, games, and in our hearts and minds as fans.
So don’t fuck with our witch.
Absolutely spot on, I was so disappointed that this game adds NOTHING to the relatively well established world of Bayonetta, no new Lumen sages, angels or demons but only this neo-futuristic multiverse, I like how the new enemies are inspired by the climate/stratosphere, but it completely threw the original real-life inspirations away that formed the Bayonetta franchise
damn right you are
The funniest thing is that they've had 11 years (2008-2019) worth of Capcom's experience to learn from in making a passing the torch plot with Nero and DMC, only to fall flat AND gleefully assassinated their own main character.
The more I see Bayo 3 the more I am glad DMC has been fully in Itsuno's hands since 3.
This, if Kamiya was still behind dmc there would be forced gimmicks and qtes and a more convoluted narrative
They were trying to make a Nero-style legacy for a character but ended up with a Marvel Movie style passing the torch instead.
th-cam.com/video/9sm8sBWNHks/w-d-xo.html
One failed game and a legacy of successes.
@@seija8588 Itsuno whenever he missteps, always improves the games, and that’s how he pulls a reverse Star Trek for every uneven-numbered title.
This was so well articulated…I think the dance moves from Maiko Uchida omitted from the game is really, really disheartening. Especially if we consider Brave Cereza wanted to be more like the variant she met in the future. Why is the characterization so retconned beyond repair. It leaves a bitter taste as a fan of Bayonetta gameplay and lore.
The theme for this bayo was "making her cuter" as stated by Platinum themselves... So yeah she was doomed to be toned down from the start, maybe they were not comfortable with smol grown up Cereza being so overtly sexy, which is kind of ridiculous? The dance already seems generic teenager k-pop style, so yeah, we got scammed from the beginning, and I have no faith for the future games either.
@@Bane_Amesta Then why even make this Bayonetta? I'm getting sick of this "toned down female characters" nonsense in video games.
@@Bane_Amesta
More like Jpop but yeah.
We need a Jeanne game, there's so much to be there, not to mention it can go back to the angels and demons 😭
Thank you! I honestly never get where people are coming from when they say “ Luka and bayo are soul mates They’ve been together since the beginning”
But not as love interest. Not every female character needs a relationship.
@@jaguar4120that’s what Star basically said
The fact that some people says "but he loves her from the first game and is always there for her" seems to blissfully ignore how she blatantly bullies the crap out of him on his creepiness. Also chasing her relentlesly is not as romantic as they think. Whoever believes that also fell for the Twilight trend of "guy who stalks girl until she gives up is so romantic, he's obvioulsy the best choice for her!" and is just absolutely unhealthy.
Speaking of that, and I can't believe I'm writing this, but finally we have a love story that is worst than Twilight.
@@Bane_Amesta 😂😂😂😂CANT AGREE MORE
I do feel all the people making Bayo and Luka's romance out to have come completely out of nowhere are exaggerating just a teeny bit as well, seeing as there was a small glimpse of some genuine sentimentality to their dynamic at the end of Bayo 1. This is not to say the romance in Bayo 3, especially for how heartfelt and grand it was played up to be, would have been well set up by any means; it felt about as earned as two characters getting married as a conclusion to their romantic arc, that had so far consisted of a single date, where one of them stood the other up.
Weird as it is to say, as things stand it does almost seem like Luka becoming a wolfman is what made all the difference. The first encounter with Strider at Umeda Sky Building is closest to the previous games' playful sexuality we get from Bayonetta in 3 and during their tag team during the final bossfight, she directly compliments how Luka's wolf form is an "improvement" to his regular looks.
I really felt like they betrayed us with how they characterized Cereza and killed her and Jeanne in bayo 3. They made such a great complex and strong character in bayo 1 and 2 making people look up to her and then just making her fizzle and die in bayo 3 like she didn't matter. I ugly cried at the bayo 3 ending out of pity for my girl...
I absolutely agree. I still don’t think a will play the last chapter because Bayonetta dies after beating the final boss. It’s too sad. 😢
For me it was always Jeanne or No one. Preferably no one, but if it HAD to be someone??? Luka??? The Joke???
I know right? She made me feel so confident as a teenager and I always wanted to be like her ~ She is so awesome ~
@@monochromesoul5873 Yeah, everyone who I told about this had the same reaction: "Luka, of all people?"
Lol
@@Bane_Amesta might do a Bayonetta 2 again in 4 where they do a major rewrite of story events 😼 or just blame it on multiverse shenanigans
Can we also just take a minute to just look at Viola's design and how she looks nothing like bayo OR Luka? Yeah obviously she's form a different universe but up until the end of the game i really did not think she was going to be their child, they look nothing alike
Her silly attitude is obviously similar to luka, but looks wise they just dont match
Actually, she does some facial features like the eyebrow area and bridge of the nose is same as Luka but I don't really see any Bayo there.
The only hint I could find was the bootleg cheshire plushie she has on her sword, that thing has Luka's scarf... and oh god I wished to be wrong so badly when I found out...
She literally looks like a mha fan 💀
The only bayo thing she can prolly have is hair color because it’s obvious she dyed it so she most likely has black hsir
The thing that makes me most angry about Bayo3 is that I waited like 8 years to just play Hideki Kamiya’s self indulgent wet dream the remix.
I don't think it's just Bayonetta who's gone, the original composer, Masami Ueda? Gone, the cinematographer? Gone, the writer? Gone, the actress? Gone, the director(s)? Also gone
Reminder that for DMC5, they got one of 4's composers, the original actors, director, cinematographer and writer
This. The whole character is just missing and I know the argument could be made that this is a different timeline, but everything about the charcter of Bayonetta is missing in this game no matter what they did. The gameplay is as fun as the original 2 games, but it feels so off course from the previous games that I wish this game was worked on a bit longer.
Mari Shimazaki is also not the artist for 3, it’s Yuki Suda. Their art is still great, but Mari is very much at the heart of things
When they used Viola to replace Bayo at the end it immediately reminded me of Borderlands 3, where they too used a character, who you barely get to know, to replace 2 beloved characters. Honestly, Viola had her moments but she needed more if they wanted to set her up as the new “Bayonetta”
The moment I saw Viola I knew I was just replaying Borderlands 3 tbh.
They just replaced Bayonetta with Viola for the sake of Identity politics, just like what happened with Borderlands 3. Hence the tone down of jokes and in Bayonetta, sexiness
@@excaliburofgachagames9241 what on Earth does "identity politics" have to do with anything??? As far as I know, Viola isn't canonically LGBTQ+, and even if she was, why would that be a problem? Bayonetta is certainly a queer-coded character already. Are you just making up something to be upset about that isn't actually in the game at all?
@@telekinesticman if we go off of Bayonetta 3 story they made Bayonetta straight (to be fair I think I would liked her to be with no one so fans can have her be with anyone fitting her free will nature). What identity politics has done is purposely remove these straight characters by any means necessary often at the cost of gameplay, story, likeable characters, etc. It might sound like me just making stuff up but the exact same thing happened to borderlands 3 and sadly Bayonetta 3 got hit with it too.
P.s: The change from let's dance boys to let's dance baby is a clear indicator as well.
P.s2: in all honesty I hope this is all just in my head and maybe they did it just because Bayonetta had a change in voice actresses for English and this isn't actually what they were doing. It'd make me look like a fool but it would feel a lot better. But this is just what I'm thinking right now after seeing the miss treatment of beloved characters.
P.s3: Also Viola made the ending super predictable. I knew the ending at the beginning of the game simply due to how borderlands 3 ended. No videos or posts spoiled me either. It was almost copy and paste on the abuse of beloved characters. It's the reason I play gacha games or indie games or fan service games over western influenced games these days.
Viola definitely did not have her moments
They spend the entire game showing us she’s a little bit of a loser that wants to be respected
And every opportunity they give her to actually show some growth and show that’s she’s been learning throughout the game are wasted, as time and time again she just fails over and over again
Then they imply she’s taking the mantle
Without showing us she actually deserves it
She goes nowhere in the whole game and they want us to believe she can take the mantle? C’mon lol
The Straightonetta segment is pretty much all of my thoughts I couldn't put into words summed up perfectly. Thank you for being the first person I've seen to point out the absolute rug pull that all is.
I honestly have no clue what people are talking about. Jeanne is like her sister; the wake up kiss comment is a JOKE. OP even omits the second half of her quote to Luka because it throws their theory in the bin:
"Come now Cheshire. Look at me. Do I look like I have any interest in children? *Now making them... Well, that's another story.* "
The reason her romance with Luka is stupid is because Bayonetta wouldn't 'settle down' with *anyone* - she is foremost a free spirited woman, never tied down to anything. Honestly if she was casually sleeping with anyone, I'd guess Rodin, since she spends almost all her time hanging out with him, and he's probably one of the few who could keep up with her in bed. She definitely had a teasing, lightly-flirty interest in Luka, but at all times it was depicted as her holding the power in every scene with him, and his human romantic interest in her and flat attempts at 'courting' amused her.
Saying that she is romantically interested in Jeanne feels reductive. Why can't it just be an actual healthy depiction of a platonic sisterly relationship?
Bi people exist, and i really think Jeanne means more to Cereza than a sisterly bond at this point. they're 600 years old and live together, shop together, plan parties together, die for eachother... do you see my point here? Bayo shouldn't really be with anyone because she's an independent woman and that's why it's never been explicitly stated, but if it were to be anyone it's jeanne. There's no way Bayonetta's not bisexual. that may just be my headcannon but the way she carries herself is an "everyone wants me no one can have me" and something about her being bi fits for me.
@@jennywithaglock3916 so you're saying that any two women who think of each other as sisters with a deep bond, given enough time spent together, should eventually become gay for each other?
@@Hugsloth No. im not saying that.
I said there's enough Subtext and... just plain text and queer overtones that it's CERTAINLY plausible.
im gonna take a wild guess and assume you're not queer. maybe stop talking about "becoming" gay LMFAO
just run along with your bland headcanon that bayonetta is exclusively hetero, despite being sexually liberated to her extent.
I'd also like to point out that I clearly said in the video "if Bayonetta had to be paired up with anyone, it should have been Jeanne", not that she needed to be with Jeanne in the first place. Luka feels so out of nowhere, and if we're going to claim that the "wake-up kiss" line is a joke, then I hope you'll understand that I 100% view the "now making them, well that's another story" line about children to also be a joke. She's messing with Luka, intentionally making him uncomfortable and confused. She might legitimately enjoy sex with men, I never stated otherwise, she totally could be bisexual. But Luka?? I don't see it at all. Jeanne is the only character who is equal to Cereza, the only one who truly understands and respects her, and who she would already be spending most of her daily life with anyway. Most of the comments people have left addressing this element of the video really do come off as homophobic.
You very accurately and eloquently expressed exactly how I feel about Bayo 3! Great review! Those 40-something minutes flew by.
I might rag on Bayo 3 a bit too much, but it's hard to convey how much of a disappointment it was for me as someone who's been a massive fan of the games and the character all the way since 2009. Bayo 3 is a fun game, yet at the same time, it feels like a poor fanfic dead-set to divert its focus to anything besides what made the original so great in the first place...
wait, It's actually 40 min long...
@@BeatGoat Absolutely agree. Both Bayonetta 1 and 2 were amazing. But the story of Bayonetta 3 was boring and awful. Bayonetta 3 lacked personality.
The entire staff at PG should watch this whole Critique in it’s entirety. It’s her legacy! Very well done.❤️💙💜
I’m glad I wasn’t the only person to think the ending was terrible. I had so much fun with the alternate universes, which made the slog of the last fight annoying.
I steered clear of this one. When the previews and trailers came out, I saw people gushing about how amazing it looked, and I thought, "Are we watching the same videos?" The vibrant and beautiful visuals of the first two games had been replaced by drab, ugly settings. Everything just seemed off. But one thing the gushing fans and I did have in common was seeing the influence of Astral Chain. That, probably more than anything else, scared me off of Bayonetta 3. It had some cool elements, but overall, I didn't think Astral Chain was a good game.
@@ressljs Demon Slave is basically what happens you let the player use every ability the protagonist has in cutscenes in gameplay when the Wicked Weaves and QTEs were already good ways to include Bayo's summons in gameplay. They also could've rebalanced Umbran Climax so it isn't a win button like it was in 2 instead of trying to replace it with a new gimmick.
For as much as the game wants us to be invested in Bayo/Viola’s mother-daughter relationship, they spent very little time on it. The multiverse was a great opportunity to explore this dynamic (as Everything Everywhere all at Once has proven), but they completely waste it by killing off every Bayo before they can have a real conversation conversation. Viola herself doesn’t appear to have ANY counterparts, which could’ve been interesting to explore, but they waste that chance too.
Greatly apprecite you validating all the things that made Bayonetta 3 feel so off. The camera issues. Weird Pure Plat time goals. The inability to retry a single verse. The lack of costumes esp for Jeanne. The shoehorning of her love for Luka. And most importantly, the lost of that magical powerful and sexy and campy humor in Bayonetta's character writing. It's truly a shame that we waited this long for a game at this level of quality.
i appreciate the new voice actor for bayonetta so much but even i catch a lot of voice lines that helena would’ve characterized a lot better. her voice in the first two games is much more bouncy but i think that’s because she sounded really playful while also having a mature tone and jennifer’s rendition is very playful but it has more of a youthful tone instead
but it fails to carry the heart and soul of the titular witch, betraying her legacy as an empowering female icon.
It felt like a marvel movie!
"uncomfortable? even a little cringe? And I actually had to reflect on that because...I'm playing bayonetta..."
That alone is the biggest red flag on this whole situation.
Even if this is the more innocent Cerecita version, she's still supposedly an adult here, so the fact that the most recognizable part of her personality, is intentionally making you cringe is just awful.
They just had to show from the start that this is not OG Bayo, and then maybe, the sanitization would felt a bit more understandable. I guess.
@@Bane_Amesta Its a bit of this but also it felt like I was watching a fanservice scene from an anime. As
TelekinesticMan said, formulaic. Like, it didn't matter. Its really awkward to do all of the fun sexy stuff only to get squashed down over and over emotionally, like the game is giving me a "NO FUN ALLOWED" sign. I wanna say the plot of 3 is just WAY TOO DIRE. Not that Bayonetta can't have a world ending plot, but there is no hope or optimism. Which is awful because joy in oneself, hope and optimism are very core to Bayonetta, not only in the gameplay, but also in Bayonetta herself. Its the very emotions that makes her sexiness work.
But you lose, all the way to the end. Even if the after credits show a restored world, overall the story was too nihilistic for this game. All the moments that should be iconic feel squished in there as a tasteless nod to the past installments because of this oppressiveness. The game is at such odds with itself that everything falls apart, even Bayonetta herself. literally :')
@@irenekim8340 Oh, absolutely, this is too pessimistic to be a Bayonetta game. And you know what's even worse? That the whole story had no meaning anyways. Not just about the quest of finding the 5 thingies when the bad guy was always around. If the worlds got restored, and all the Bayos supposedly revived, then all th struggle was literally for nothing. It can be seen as one sacrifice to save everyone else, but that's NOT what happened. It was a bad decision (maybe two, I still think Viola didn't deserve to live lol) that lead to the "couple" going to hell for no real reason whatsoever. And with a "successor" that clearly doesn't deserve the title.
Btw, about the sexiness, it also doesn't matter either, specially the naive mode included, she's never naked for more than what, 3 seconds? And the camera goes away. They already toned this down on 2, when she has more hair covering her body than 1, and the camera moves away faster as well. Now in 3 is literally nothing lol. I'd say is isn't really a huge loss since her dancing isn't sexy enough to watch either. As a woman is not really a huge deal for me (in a horny fan service way I mean), but even I can see how this decision damaged her character even more
@@Bane_Amesta exactly yeah ;-; like haaalp its so bad!!!
The ending really made me sad, I really will miss our Bayonetta :'(
The only one that died was the cereza you played as, all of the other ones including 1st and 2nd games were revived along with their worlds so they're still around
@@kingofthefleetians they are?
@asmobeel they're all gliching out at the end because they're existing across multiple worlds and only dissappear because singularity retracted from said world's to better stabilize himself, plus bayo 1 and 2 are fine from what it seemed
@@kingofthefleetians oooh, i see
I will certainly not miss Cereza because I don't care about her like AT ALL. For me it's OG Bayo or nothing, even less a Bayonetta wannabe like Cereza...
I couldn't care less if people like Bayonetta x Luka, it's just not something I enjoy, but the defenses I've seen for Bayonetta "falling in love with him" confuse me. So many people say she cared about his well-being in the first game and made some sexual comments towards him. And? Seriously, respecting someone more as a friendly acquaintance doesn't mean you're in love with them. And Bayonetta made sexual comments towards him. Yeah, that's what she tends to do in general. The openly sexual dominatrix witch saying something sexual isn't that mind blowing.
Also while I do prefer Helena Taylor's voice, I understand why she was replaced. She was paid well for her role as Bayonetta, but she instead decided to leave out the fact that she would be getting $4,000 for every acting session she was given, which was 5, and being still being offered $4,000 for cameoing as Bayos 1 and 2 after rejecting the entire role. That is on top of her shooting herself in the foot by begging the people who hadn't preordered the game to donate to an anti-abortion clinic, supporting the "blue lives matter" crowd in the midst of police brutality against black people and her implied unwillingness to support trans rights, three things I as a black trans man find especially repulsive. I won't be buying Bayo 3, but I do hope Jennifer can grow on people and improve over time.
What’s wrong with not wanting to support trans rights?
I’m serious when asking this.
@@Mister_Don888 Because trans people are human and thus deserving of all rights just like anyone else?
Im really glad how you mentioned that her nudity is never seen at all in 3. Even though we've seen and heard multiple times that Nintendo leaves a lot of creativity and freedom to their development teams, especially for Platinum, it really makes me wonder if they were more strict with Bayonetta 3's development. Oddly in 3 they sneakily try to cover Bayonetta's nudity during infernal summons-even though she's already covered due to the hair wrapped around her, they really try to make sure she is seen as less as possible during the scenes-they even put the portal in front of her so the hair that is pulling out the demon blocks her body. Along with the pole dancing scene at the end being shown through that circle gear object and not the full screen with the scene. The scene also cuts to gameplay sequences during it which has never been done before.
Fun fact, they already toned down this in Bayo 2. Yes you can see her naked, but those moments last just a few seconds, meanwhile in 1 she was barely covered and always in the best camera angle so show her off. I compared the first infernal summons in both games, and in 2 she has more hair around covering her than 1. So is not something exclusive from 3.
Fr was thinking of this…
I personally think western influence hit Bayonetta 3 hard. Hence Viola taking over. The moment I say her I knew what I was getting myself into.
@@excaliburofgachagames9241 yeah it's weird that they'd shift the protagonist (supposedly) to Viola. Viola is a cute character but I would've liked if we had spent more time with her to achieve that lead character status. I'm genuinely interested what happened within the 5+ish years of this game's development.
I feel like bayonetta left with Helena Taylor’s soul. Nothing like her. Her sass her self her independence the way she fool around with the demons her dance moves. I would forever respect that woman even with all the controversies.
I completely agree.
But even then, the game is so riddled with issues that even I don't think Taylor's inclusion would have made the experience any better.
@@justinluc2572 if you saw how the cut content was and how bayo 1 and 2 appears in their respective places, with labolas being fully summoned and rodin and jeanne's chapters, hellena would've been such a nice and distinct "variant" that it'd be nice to see all three interact...
Also, I'm British and was willing to accept a new va but they cast an American. Every time that accent dropped, a unicorn's horn fell off.
I respect her performance, but not her as a person.
As usual you hit the nail right on the head. Excellent work Caelum!
These videos need more attention with the time they take to make them. A hit once again.
ABSOLUTELY! I definitely relate to your reaction of the ending, as a lesbian who found a lot of comfort and acceptance through bayonetta because of how unafraid she is to be herself, her campiness, and the queer undertone with her and Jeanne.. the ending was a slap in the face.. of course I wasn’t expecting her to get with Jeanne at all but getting her with the creepy stalker guy.. *shudder*
Lmao, you don’t play the game at all, I don’t even know where lesbian Bayonetta came from besides misinterpreted artworks.
@@KaiserWilhelm1939fr 😭
@@KaiserWilhelm1939fandom is gonna fandom.
Honestly speaking even without the correct story writing which I completely agree with. Jennifer did not bring the characters voice to life like Hellena Taylor did and that is what it is. I know I might receive hate for that, but a fact is simply a fact.
I personally disagree I really liked Jennifer's interpretation of thr role and really loved listening to her. But i understand why people don't like how different it feels and piled up with all the problems of this game it just makes it feel worse.
Great job on the video as always! A fair and thorough review all around.
Gonna be honest, Bayo should have been paired with no one. Even with Jeanne, it felt like a 'sisterhood' type deal. It's okay to have female protagonist without love interest. Just like it's okay to have male ones.
Same, as someone that isn't very interested in love and is kind of bored by how fictions always kind of shoehorn romance, I liked to have a celibate and badass character like Bayo.
Yes!
Yea I was never behind bayo and Jeanne and I didn't like the thought of bayo and Luka since it would've come out of nowhere
Bro I have no idea where the Bayo x Jeanne thing even comes from. I just played 1 and 2 and nothing concrete there made me feel that the two were in some kind of relationship. With Luka, I can kind of see it, but there’s almost zero development in their relationship after 1.
@@mohamedmendoza9503 she needs no man or womanX but if she had to be with someone I would have liked it to be with Jeanne
omg your ending conclusion... I am so happy for the me who got to experience that other universe! Thank you for this! It was the most heartbreaking end I've ever felt. I had no idea what I was crying for as the credits rolled because so much had happened.
It felt particularly weird to me for Bayonetta to end up with Luka because I just can’t see her with someone who isn’t on the same “level” as her, so to speak. Bayo exudes class and grace, sexuality and power. Luka provided a foil to her because he had none of that, and that contrast was great for comedy. That said, it is exactly because he has none of those qualities that it feels so odd for her to end up with Luka. Never mind the fact that she is over 500 years old and will ostensibly continue to live for hundreds of more years, while Luka lives the relatively short lifespan of a human (that is, until he became a faerie I guess?).
The only character in the game which had all of these qualities that are so central to Bayonetta as a character is Jeanne. She also is the one who knows Bayonetta the most and has been through thick and thin with her. A relationship between the two of them just felt natural. So natural, in fact, that I just assumed they were in one and it wouldn’t ever be officially confirmed, just implied, until this game threw that out the window. I have to wonder if the reason for that was literally just so they could shoehorn in the new generation of Bayonetta in the form of Viola. If so, that was a colossally bad choice, particularly given the fact that Viola as a character didn’t even pay off.
I feel bad for Viola because I was already not loving her character design and dialogue in trailers, but she did grow on me a tiny bit while playing the final game. But then she has *nothing* to do in the story, she has no character arc or anything. She feels very expendable and pointless other than her gameplay, which I still think is really fun.
"Luka became a faerie."
Me who hasn´t played the game: WTF.
@@matiasluukkanen7718 Don’t worry, it doesn’t make any more sense when you do
@@telekinesticmanI really wish i could take Viola's character and do more with them. I don't mind the idea of a kid being more an opposite to the parent but she really needed more to her. Her three mission sequences would have been so much better if she passed them albeit clumsily. So when she fails to protect Bayonetta at the end it feels stronger because she really is s noob at the end of the day.
Your analysis is so on point it hurts. You gave Bayonetta a proper burial, which is the least any of us could do. I hope she rises from her grave eventually, but this will leave a dark mark on her legacy.
This is an incredibly thorough and fair breakdown of the game! You carry an obvious sense of love, knowledge, and passion for the series, which only enhances your honest criticisms. The world of game analysis needs more reviews like this one.
One day I'll put aside time to actually sit down and play those first two games. I've always loved their sense of style, and anything with direct involvement from Kamiya is generally worth checking out. Bayo 3 never really quite interested me as much, even before the real-world controversies and story revelations kicked in. Something always seemed off, even from the viewpoint of an outsider like myself. I also think it just sucks that Nintendo hardware has to hold such a technically ambitious game back, like this. And the story? Maaan, it is such a letdown to know just how much it missed the mark. It's a little offensive just how forced the heteronormative romance aspect is, and I am already growing insanely tired of multiverse gimmicks.
I’m a huge Bayonetta fan. I can tell you that the story of Bayonetta 3 just isn’t right. Bayonetta attitude was off throughout the whole and the romance was lame. Luka and Bayonetta never should have happened. Bayonetta in previous game never showed any interest in him at all. Also the story of Bayonetta 3 sucks. Bayonetta ending at the end was distasteful. I believe to add a dramatic twist and effect. 😮
Heteronormative romance? Lmao, do you even know who Bayonetta is, back in 2009 all people complained about was her being too sexual and how she was made for the male gaze, and for some reason since 2014 a bunch of idiots decided to put a sexuality on her. Luka and Bayonetta go way back, in their own way, people never saw the developer documentaries, people just decide to be ignorant and cry about some delusional shit that ain’t even theirs. I can tell many of you don’t even follow Kamiya, and trust someone random on the internet posting stupid ass “facts” with “trust me bro” sources more than the creator and story writer himself lmao.
For the confusion of Bayo 2 appearing alongside Bayo 1, it took me a while to understand myself, but with a bit of research I learned that the Records of Time, prologue chapter, of Bayonetta 2, show an alternate Bayonetta which never encountered young Balder until she traveled back in time. So essentially the Bayo 2 near the end of the game, is that Bayo from the Records of Time. Although having been through the same as Bayo 1, it's the her meeting of young Balder that splits the timelines.
I also learned through other various videos, that even though Brave Cereza didn't go through the 500 sleep, her awakening the left eye, resonated with the other universes left eyes, and thus Bayo 1 awakened hers. I had to lots of videos to understand all this lol
So, Bayo 3 can be decanonized?
@@bluecoin3771 Yeah, probably
This is by far the best review/critique I've seen of the game!
Yeah I agree with everything in the video.
The main reason this game turned me off is just how...restricted bayonetta feels. Like when she danced before it felt awesome and she was just flaunting and taunting the angels. Now it just felt like a tap dance routine that I would rather see Enzo or Viola try and do. Even the voice sounded less seductive/domineering and more...what a highschool kid thinks sounding sexy is like.
To shorten it, I don't care how fun the game play wa. If it doesn't feel like the character then it won't feel right playing them.
Edit: sound track does go hard tho
Commenting as I go here, but I'm really glad you brought up the fact that Demon Slave is mandatory. My first playthrough, I was playing it like a Bayonetta game, maybe with the demon slave coming in every now and then. I'm not some pro player, but I noticed I kept getting golds on times and I was like wtf I was doing all that I could there. Eventually, I realised that they want you to do most of the heavy lifting with Demon Slave because they melt healthbars and taking down enemies without it is such a chore. It's like they didn't even realise what was good about the first game and for both 2 and 3 have felt the need to tack on these gimmicks instead of doing what the first game did but better. Like the fact that Witch Time isn't required in 1, makes me want to play because I don't have the best timing but I can still manage and have fun. The demon slave doesn't make me feel powerful and I think that's something they nailed in 1, the more powerful you as the player get the more magic you get in fights to easily dispatch certain enemies with torture attacks or wicked weaves.
At the sound mixing section currently and I couldn't agree more. Viola was unbearable to play as because for some reason they made her pant when she walks and runs and it's so loud and personally distracts me. I don't think I've ever experienced that in a hack n slash game.
The ranking system is absolutely an improvement if you ask me, I would never even bother trying to platinum Bayo 3 if you couldn't save your progress. This simple change makes me feel happy when I do manage to platinum one of those gameplay change segments, because if that weren't the case I'd feel so drained playing these missions pure platinum, just to lose it right at the end for a one off gameplay segment. That's one thing 1 could have done with for shit like Isla Del Sol or Route 666.
Also, this goes off the point you brought up on the lack of costumes, was anyone else pretty bummed out when we didn't even get the fake dress she makes in the intro as an alt or her casual attire for that matter? I'm so used to seeing the first cutscene getups and later being able to play in those getups and it was extremely disappointing that they had nothing when the previous games absolutely spoiled us.
I almost feel it's unfair to compare Jennifer Hale's performance to Helena's because it's not the same character anyway, I'd list off the reasons but you've done more than enough heavy lifting for that point there. And yes, Bayo should be 1 character. The multiverse story is something I really wish they didn't go for, I hate all this speculation it's caused because it makes things needlessly complicated.
Viola's main problem was the constant hinting at being Bayo's kid for me, first cutscene and she goes "I'm your..." and immediately it's clear and the whole game I was thinking "Just say it, just say it, just say it, just say it" because it's not surprising yet it wants you to be like OMG SHE'S BAYONETTA'S DAUGHTER COOL. Also the joke about "The name's Viola" genuinely could have worked if I think the second time we hear it she wasn't unbearably obnoxious with the "MY NAME IS VIOLA! V-I-O-L-FUCKING-A! VIOLA!" and then smiles like yeahhh I'm a badass, I fuckin hated that scene man lmao. If there was some build up to her using the naughty fuck word, it could have worked. But they blew their load too early and everyone after that just becomes her catchphrase and weaker in comparison because she's never that angry at being called Kitty again.
Yes, they 100% did Jeanne dirty. It doesn't matter if her death didn't mean something, it's the fact that she died and no one cared. Shit fuckin sucks man because when you see them popping off in one, fighting one on one, equal in skill, it was so cool and so important to the genre. Just sucks that she was shafted so hard, to make room for the ETERNAL SHIP! LUKA X BAYO 4 EVER! Fuck out of here man. I'm also annoyed at the people who say people are just mad she's not gay. And it's 100% not that, it's the fact it's with Luka. Not someone fuckin good enough for the god slayer that is Bayo.
Thank you for reading my fuckin novel here, it's a tad disjointed but I was writing as I was going through the video and I just have to say well fuckin done man because you put my thoughts into words exactly. I feel like this is a fascinating game to study for everything it gets wrong and should be used as an example of how not to do your hack n slash games. It's beautiful how DMC5 got everything so right, where Bayo 3 dropped the ball many of times. Truly two masterpieces, two sides of the same coin. Brilliant.
I think a big disappointment for this game for me is also the complete absence of Loki. As far as I can recall they don't even mention him, along with Balder the two of them are completely gone from the narrative. it could have even been a nice circle with Loki calling the Bayo 3's Bayonetta ' Cereza' since he didn't think the Bayonetta he met fit the name, it's even worse when the end of 2 emphasized the fact that they would most likely see each other again. Balder's absence is excusable because of the time loop, but it does also doesn't feel like a Bayonetta game without him either.
A Jeanne game with Loki and Baldur going back to the traditional angels and demons, hell yeah!
This.... No, Bayonetta 3 was a disappointment
The fact there wasn't even ONE alt universe Balder is a ridiculously huge missed opportunity
They did it with Rosa, why not with him?
This is thorough! From gameplay, to characters, to music, to story! Thank you. I actually loved the game but understand 100% of the criticism against it and if anything, it makes me want to play the first two games (that I did not play again after they were released back in the day) again.
This quote from your conclusion is insane : "It may seem ridiculous to think that Platinum would seriously consider their hypothetical next sequel to not even feature their beloved protagonist from previous entries ...until you realize that's exactly what Bayonetta 3 already is. A Bayonetta game without Bayonetta."
By far the best critique of the game I have seen so far, managed to put into words a lot of what i felt going through Bayo 3.
43:25 THANK YOU!!! I knew I couldn’t have been the only person who thought Bayonetta and Jeanne should’ve been together instead of Bayonetta and Luka
Luka and Bayonetta becoming soul mates is kinda annoying because it affirms to dated idea that man and woman cannot legit just be friends and instead always wish to advance to romantic interest
Well to be fair that is true, at least for men.
@kinglookgood I have female friends, and they're just friends.
@DrBigt AKA the "friend zone"
@@kinglookgood What friend zone?? I am happily married man who has female friends.
I come back to this video every once in a while since the release of Bayo3 as some sort of eulogy to a passed friend.
You nailed the head on nearly everything wrong with the game and what we loved about the past two installments. It's a great shame how it turned out this way, and how it probably will never be the same ever again. I hope you realize that this video brings a great comfort to those who had a great emotional connection to this franchise who felt Bayonetta3 spat in the face of its most loyal and hardcore fans and its own legacy.
Some of us are still in the grieving process, and it's because of you that this video helps cushion the blows every time they resurface themselves. Thank you.
I love how in all of this you didn't even touch on the fact that Luka is suddenly a werewolf out of nowhere lmao. Great critique though! Most reviewers don't delve into the Jeanne relationship unless they're actively LGBT, and completely miss all the text and subtext that you pointed out.
I see that Minotaur Hotel pfp....
@@SomeSprites shhh we're not supposed to talk about it
I cannot find a single thing that I disagree with in this video. This was perfectly said and thoroughly explained right up until the end. Absolutely Love This!!!
With the demonic summons, in Bayonetta 3, it really does seem like Kamiya saw what Itsuno was doing in Devil May Cry 5 and thought, "I'd do that, but bigger! Because bigger is better and it always been!" However, in order to make it work, Kamiya nerfed the characters' damage output and made enemies throw up shields, meaning you're forced into using the demonic summons that feels like their too powerful and you can end up cheesing your way through the game using them. Especially when the game is always actively throwing meter at you to use them.
Also between Not Nero, who's set up to be the new face of the franchise, with her Not Devil Trigger. The chainsaw motorbike thats now a chainsaw train. The magic cowboy hat thats now a magic top hat and S(h)in Devil Trigger and S(h)in Gomorrah, it really does make me wonder, does Kamiya have any original ideas of his own anymore, or is just looking to copy Itsuno's homework from here on out? I really don't have any problems with Bayonetta making references to Devil May Cry with Kamiya's work on it, but this is practically plagiarism at this point.. Oh! And Luka's Bayo 3's sheepskin lined coat being pretty much ripped off from a scrapped Dante concept costume from DMC4, and as if it wasn't obvious enough they were trying to make him like Dante, might as well give him the cowboy hat as well 🙄
That's a big thing, right there. The Shields that require a singular mechanic are always, and will always be, the worst. Member DmC? Peppridge Farms members.
@@connorburris4846 after playing through Bayonetta 3, I moved onto Sonic Frontiers, and with some enemies when you looked at attacking, what would the very first they'd do? "Quick! Retreat into our boxes! Unless Sonic does that one specific move (the cyloop), there's no way he can get through our defenses!" Which really had me thinking, am I just playing Bayonetta 3 again?
Though I will at least give Bayonetta 3 some credit for having enemies that show interest in attacking you, as well as a parry that actually requires some skill, than hold down the parry button for as long as you need then there'd be a chance to let the game play itself for you. It was quite disappointing because I did have some hopes for Frontiers' combat when it was showing of some character action game qualities like launchers, air juggles and parrying and it might be the only good thing about the game, given the focus on copy, pasted levels with Cyberspace, as we go for third trip down memory lane 🙄 Sadly it was quite shallow - it didn't even have timed combo strings - and with it featuring a rapidfire projectile move that was was so overpowered it had me thinking, am I playing DMC2 again?
It was not a very good time, going from one underwhelming game, I forced my through, to another 😆😅 Though things did get better, as I started Okami after that
It's like Platinum just decided to commit suicide on this one.
Nice critique. They really disappointed me with the story sadly
Thank you so much for this Video. It is truly fantastic! Bayonetta means so much to me and you summed up my feelings towards this game perfectly. I was shocked and felt speechless. I know this sounds dramatic but I still can‘t get over this empty feeling. Well, I guess it‘s time to replay the Bayonetta duology again and to dance under the moon once more. Keep up the good work, this video is amazing! 🌕
Everything you said in this perfectly captures how I feel about this game, thank you so much for putting it all together in such a cohesive manner
I can’t wait for the video essays 2 years from now with titles like “Why Viola is hated while Nero is loved” or something akin to that
Just started this and finished bayonetta 3 yesterday honestly can say it has some of the best music I’ve heard but lord the story was really just bland for me
While I have never played a bayonetta(because I am bad at video games) but hearing what a fan had to say was interesting.
Thank you very much for this review it explains soooo much of how I was feeling about this game.
The omly thing I disagree with is saying this isn't the Bayonetta I knew from the previous games.
Because this is cereza who is from a different universe and has different ways of carrying herself while still being Bayonetta in the end as her personality and methods stay the same and it feel authentic.
Why did the end of this make me cry? You’re SO right
I'm currently crying rn
the beginning and then that ending was completely emotional for me
On one hand I'm sorry, but on the other, I did want this video to capture the feeling I had when finishing this game. I remember watching the awful cutscene with Bayo and Luka kissing, and then feeling conflicted during the dance to Hell. This wasn't my Bayonetta, so I wasn't particularly sad to see *this* variant die, but it still symbolised the death of the character in general, assisted with a quite powerful, emotional song. Then, when the music picks up for the Bayo 2 flashback images, I started crying. That was when it really hit hard that she just felt so wrong this game, and how it was borderline offensive to see them suddenly showing flashbacks to the character I actually liked! And then another punch in the gut with the Bayo 1 images too, I remember almost crying again when first editing this intro and having to watch that dance one more time. Watching her last crystal shard contain an image of her and Luka was certainly not making things better.
And after all that, including the Viola Kraken fight, the pole dance, and the torch-passing moment, I was still teary-eyed and felt awful. But it was when the Bayo 1 and 2 variants appeared in the final dance that I really started crying again. I was watching this weirdly choreographed dance sequence with an admittedly great remix of one of my favourite tracks from the original game, but seeing the "real" Bayonetta(s) again was the final shot through the heart, not helped by seeing Jeanne dancing alongside them. It was just like "she's right there, I can see her, even though she looks kind of ugly now and sounds different, why did they take her away from me?". That was when the concluding statement really hit me, which is why I included that shot at the end of the video as well. A Bayonetta game without Bayonetta.
@@telekinesticman I hated the dance sm
I was literally yelling at my TV like "WHY TF ARE YOU DANCING LIKE IT'S A HAPPY ENDING!!" I've been playing this game since I was 9 years old.
the closest thing I can describe it to
is losing a dear friend.
Thank you for this video
I'm thankful that someone was able to put into words on why most OG Bayonetta fans felt betrayed
or hurt by Bayonetta 3 plot.
Thank you for this masterpeice🙏
this video is literally perfect
Thank you :) it might be my favourite video of mine so far, if not for some repetitive wording and sentence structure that I didn't notice until after the video was uploaded.
Guys, we need to push Platinum games to make Jeanne playable in Bayo 3's story mode. Judging by the Viola fixes, it seems like they listen
Best Analysis of the game so far. Thanks for this video.
Man I sure do love watching the main protagonist break out dance moves while the entire city they live in is swallowed by a tsunami
BRAVO! Gorgeous review, everything was on point!
I feel like i'm not missing out with Bayo 3 considering how disappointing it is. Bayonetta 2 will always be my favorite.
FACTS Bayo 3 is pure TRASH. Bayo 2 is the best of the series
@@IdiocracyWorldTour7774 Bayonetta 1 Is the best of the series
I know the story in Bayonetta has never been the main focus but the script was always gold but this game brought so many contrived moments
Thank you, you are the first one to rreally express my point of view of this game, specially, the cutscenes laughs that dissapear on the third and also the graphics and the character who was much better in the second game and also the fact that Bayo 1 and Bayo 2 were the same persons before the third... I also drop a tear at the ending, for the same reason as you... I just hope, someday, somehow, we're gonna to have again our original Bayo
37:29 Thank you. Thank you so much. I really don't understand what was going on when they did this. I had so many thoughts in my head during that scene in the ending and trying to figure out what I was supposed to feel.
I don't agree with absolutely everything said here, but I was blown away by how close the angles we view the series from are. Excellent criticism and analysis of this strange game!
i havent finished playing the third game, but there are moments in which it seems like im playing devil may cry 2 all over again, the emptyness of some levels, the overall missed character growth for previous games and Bayonetta just seems like a different person .
An excellent video that perfectly captured most of my thoughts on the game!
Stellar content as usual
You pretty much touched on everything I noted during my first playthrough of the game, the witch time especially stood out to me because after a certain point I just put on Evil Rosary Beads (the accessory that swaps witch time for the magic explosion) instead of relying on it. The amount of time you actually have is so short even with perfect dodges/parries that I couldn't even get much damage out of it. With Viola especially this is pretty apparent since her parry not only has recovery during the witch time, but it also pushes enemies back meaning that unless you summon Chesire right away you end up wasting more time getting back to the enemy to do damage than you do attacking them.
7:36 Transformers Devastation fixed that issue 7 years ago... so what the heck happened here?
You took the words right out of my mouth. My god. Thank you so much.
Holy shit! I agree with EVERYTHING you said, except gimmick parts. They are not tolerable, they are criminally awful
Good news! I'll have to verify some of the changes myself, but it seems like Platinum have addressed a lot of the gameplay issues in their most recent patch for Bayonetta 3. I was not expecting any further updates to the game at all, so this is a fun surprise, even if it somewhat invalidates elements of this video.
en-americas-support.nintendo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/60160/~/how-to-update-bayonetta-3#v120
@Buzz Buzz Thanks so much! I don't think I'll make an entire follow-up video or anything. Mayyybe if I did a video on Bayonetta Origins I could include some segments about the Bayo 3 updates. But right now I don't even know if I'll buy Bayo Origins, that sucker is $80 and I don't even care as much about the story anymore.
@@telekinesticman It cost that much then I suggest waiting for the price to get lower. Also what I did find this video quite interesting I don't really agree with the character assassination part honestly if you want to see character assassination go play metroid the other M that is character assassination. This feels more like watering down a character if anything. But I do agree with the whole Luka thing It should have been her and John, But I still like Viola so instead of making her her real life daughter maybe they could have done something like saying she was just an orphan kid who bayonetta and John adopted to trying to become an umbrella witch. But goes through a rebellious teen phase which explains her design, Because personally I like the character.
God I love thank you. I got so mad seeing the skill tree in Bayo 3. Especially seeing that a lot of the moves were just functionally the same moves across all the weapons. Some of them were unique, but for the most part most of the was like buying after burner kick, charged bullets, witch twist like 8 different times and that was just suuuuper annoying. The only reason I noticed this however was because I had Bayo 1 and 2 on my switch so when I got the guns from 1 and 2 I bounced that they have the same moves but I had to unlock them all individually....for BOTH GUNS
this game seriously felt like it was rushed out of the door despite cooking for almost 8 years, like why is luka a wolf? what is viola's fairy-like transformation? if the bayonetta's from 1 and 2 are from different universes, how does that explain the scene in bayo 2 of father balder dying alongside the destroyed jubileus statue? WHY DO THE ENEMIES LOOK THE SAME????
Here is tip:
A game that takes more than 5 years of develoment, 90% of time it will be a disater.
Even if it had 8 years of develoment, it may took then 6-7 to have a clear idea of what to do, and because the are tight on time and resources, they are forced to use stuff they made in those 6 years, even if they were from a different type of game and doesn't fit at all.
This affects both gameplay and story, which may explain a lot of stuff in bayo 3.
I'm glad it wasn't just me when I saw Bayonetta in the first cutscene she looked off and when I saw the Bayonetta you play as she looked very weird
Amazing intro and outro man!
Made me bawl my eyes out all over again. "This isn't the women I once worshiped and adored"
I'm still trying to recover from her loss
and you truly said it so beautifully
"A Bayonetta game without Bayonetta🥺"
damn the ending to that video hit hard
Wait, she doesn't continue shooting if you hold the button? That was one of the character's most iconic abilities!
That would be like if sonic couldn't use his spindash- oh right...
The multiverse theme it's clearly not made for this series, at least not by the hands of its actual writers and that's a fact, I would have enjoyed it a lot more if they just kept the time paradox issues from the first two games. I personally love Bayonetta's new design (it might even be my favourite) and it could have been a gorgeous way to portray her persona as the same we've been in touch with until now but actually embracing her past inner child, but everything was thrown away with a very bad multiverse plot. A plot which didn't only restrict us from playing with the witch we love watering down her personality and doing whatever nonsense with the character under the excuse that she's just not her, but also executing very poorly and uninterestingly its major appeal, which was meeting different versions of Bayo which are sadly not as cool, nor interesting (not at least from what we know since they didn't do anything) as the original one.
Tbh, I thought they were gonna play more with the fact her 3 design looks like an interpretation of the "barely legal/18+ version of young character" fetish. This is a franchise where she almost got a infantilism costume, after all, which would've been way worse then showing fanservice on the level of the last 2 games with an adult Cereza.
I absolutely despise the "multiverse" plots and I hate how so many franchises are taking that direction
I hope they kill off Viola in the next game and retcon 3 into the Inferno where it belongs. In fact, just make another Bayonetta 3.
This is it. This is the ultimate critic on Bayonetta
36:20 Ngl if the main character wasn’t brave cereza I’d more more mad about the voice change but the way Hale said “you didn’t cry while I was gone did you?” with OG Bayonetta legitimacy made me emotional because I was temporarily convinced it was Taylor.
Overall, my heart has been stabbed
I'm a fan of Bayonetta from the PS3 days. I must agree. Bayonetta 3's shortcomings were pretty obvious. Thank you for sharing this video. Great work TelekinesticMan! I agree with you 100%!
This video is exactly what the most hardcore Bayo fans want to say but can't quite put into words...
The conclusion of this video hits really hard because that's exactly how i feel about this game - a Bayonetta game without Bayonetta
In the starightonetta segment, as much as I don't ship Bayo with Jeanne (they have more of a sister relationship imo and I dont mind if they do end up together) and ship her with Luka, I do agree that her sudden romantic feelings for Luka was out of nowhere. No development whatsoever like it could be nice that they showed us that they are in a relationship or show beforehand that she IS interested in him and vice versa but it felt flat to actually seeing it happening despite shipping them for years. I mean it's cute that they had a daughter in another timeline but my god their relationship is so underdeveloped that Bayo with Jeanne makes so much sense.
I honestly prefer she doesn't end up with anyone
Perfect critique! Thank you for giving so much detail on how this game completely failed Bayonetta as a character. They (Kamiya) thought so little of her, they'd give her name away and replace her with a character that hasn't proven herself yet... And didn't this character spend so much screentime trying to assert their name in the first place? Only to be called Bayonetta in the end? Lol. Poor Jeanne was unceremoniously discarded too. Lka's arc made 200% more sense as Jeanne's arc (why was he dragged to hell??) Jeanne has been written to die for Bayo so many times but without really any exploration from the writers on why she's so intent on doing it in every universe. In any case, they could've just followed the same formula in 1 and 2 where Bayo does not end up in a romance... Yet they decided on the absolute undeserving and skeevy person and undermines what her character has been about.
this is much that i felt when played the game but you went more in deep, thank you for this video!
As a massive Bayonetta fan, I can only agree with just about every point you make here. It's such a shame. There's so much greatness in this title, but you're right, this Bayonetta just flat-out isn't Bayonetta. And that hurts deeply. But even aside that, I agree about the combat and enemies too. I find the massive enemies frustrating to fight, to the point I'd rather just be playing Bayonetta 1 or 2 (my personal favourite). I will always love these games and Bayonetta as a character. She has meant more to me than I even realised myself (which I do have to admit, seeing moments from 1 and 2 fly by in the credits did make me realise that). But this game, as much as it hurts to say, just didn't do her justice.
i’m glad i’m not seeing any disrespect to the new VA for bayonetta. i think jennifer did a great job with what she was given, but what she was given wasn’t great. i think she did manage to capture the essence of bayonetta but from a different angle and i think she’ll make an even better one with a better script.
Im gonna miss the OG bayo VA and in game sassy voice lines, brutal torture attacks, and the balance theme between paradiso and inferno... Since the games are seem to be focusing more on Fairies and ancient magic arts.
I find it stupid how they always find a way to actually kill Jeanne, then find a way for Bayonetta to save her...
Amazing critique. Actually hoping Kamiya sees this and proceeds to fix the series in the future. Yeah I know I'm already coping lol