The Failure of Modern FNAF (is Fnaf RUINED?) | Five Nights at Freddy's Security Breach Discussion
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 มิ.ย. 2023
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For the longest time, I have felt let down by modern Five Nights at Freddy's. It felt like once Security Breach released, the series had taken a noticeable dive in quality. That being said, the source of the issues in Security Breach have been long-argued, but never quite agreed upon. Is it the gameplay, the style, or something else? In this story structure analysis, I dive into what makes Security Breach bad, whether the Fnaf story was ever good to begin with, and whether or not Fnaf is dead. (HINT: not quite)
#fnaf #securitybreach #ruin #fivenightsatfreddys - เกม
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Again, just to reiterate, there isn't 1 good way to write a story. The focus on the beat sheet is simply showing that Security Breach's lack of ANY real structure is what lead the story to be so... bad. If they had applied the structure, they could have broken off SO far from it, yet the fact that it still had some semblance of structure would have held it together.
What do you think about the plot of "Garten of Banban" now that the third and largest part so far of the story has dropped?
I had deja vu
if yiou think the FNAF series should be already over , no need to spits your hate , you should do better things of your days
I totally agree with you
these people nowadays are so annoying and keep throwing hate at scott for making the game that is different
they all should just leave the fandom and shut up
as an og fan, i love all games
No joke, this is one of the best security breach videos I have watched. Extremely refreshing. I'm a writer myself and you explained everything perfectly. And yes, you DID blow my mind when you said the fnaf 1-6 story followed the basic plot structure.
hi, I'm starting a FNaF rewrite of the first 3 games and extended lore (Fredbear's, Vanny, The bite of 87) and I would like some advice on how I can put the story together.
I wonder how much of the plot problems were bad writing and how much was just because of time crunch. Despite being delayed, the game clearly was severely undercooked - which is probably at least part of the reason why large chunks of the story feel like they're straight up absent. A warning against the evils of Scope Creep, eh?
You haven't the slightest idea of how much bad writing there is in this game alone.
@@princevegeta6765 You haven't the slightest idea of how much pressure and rush was put on by deseprate fans to get the game thrown out. The only people to blame are those who kept pressuring the company to hurry up. You people need to realise that shit takes time and to stop being so impatient. Hogwarts legacy for example took years and years to complete. The game was succesful and was well loved, due to the fact that people weren't pressuring and rushing them constantly.
@@rankepicdino8194The company didn't have to listen to fans, and they didn't. A bunch of screaming children don't have much pull on the release date of a game. That narrative was never correct and is just a massive cope people use to defend steel wool because they are die hard for the series integrity. The game was rushed out for a holiday release so it would make more money and sell fast. It was a corporate decision made to fuck over consumers like any other corporation. Companies are not your friend and don't care about the fandom. Anybody who was "pressuring steel wool super hard" at the time were just shouting at a brick wall.
SB's plot felt weird, like it just stopped existing between you getting captured by Vanessa and the point where you're about to leave the Pizzaplex. Stuff happens, but at 6AM it starts pretending that it's set up this plotline with Vanny, the fact that someone's been killing people in the Pizzaplex, etc when it just hasn't. It feels like the second act of the story is just straight up missing.
I would dare to say Help Wanted story (it started really from this game) put us back into FNAF1 when we were as confused as now.
Fnaf, by technicality, is in *RUIN*
Lol
👏👏👏
Doesn't help that they called the dlc ruin XD
@@dragonempress8367 thats what they are reffering to....
While "Story Theory" stuff can seem bland or annoying, it's important to remember that that's because it's stripping away almost all of the things that make a story good to focus solely on the structure. Execution ("Pulling it off") is like 90% of writing, and as such you can have two stories that both follow the "Save the Cat" plot structure exactly and yet are completely different experiences (they don't even have to be in the same genre!). Don't let yourself get fooled into thinking that this kind of stuff "makes all stories the same" or whatever. Think of it this way - looking at a story purely from a structure POV would be like looking at a human only in terms of their skeleton. Sure, it will give you useful information, but there's so much more to them than just that.
Agreed
My problem with security breach was that it was advertised as a horror game, and the trailers looked scary, but it ended up being a joke, I don't mind the game itself being not scary, but they could have at least reflected that in advertising. Just the terror in Vanessa's voice when she says "they won't stop hunting you" made me think the game would be terrifying.
When you mentioned how there had been no other fnaf game that followed a basic save-the-cat plot structure, I really thought you were going to mention Sister Location. Especially with all the recent sentiment about how the gameplay is less than subpar, despite it being so well-received on release to my knowledge (possibly BECAUSE of the story?). So apologies for writing a mini essay in the comments since that idea got me thinking.
Act 1: Nights 1-2. The opening image is the little hook at the beginning with Afton and an unknown voice, letting the player know that these robots aren't normal. Night 1 introduces the animatronics as sentient and malevolent. Then "The Immortal and the Restless" introduces themes of distrust and trickery. The debate is essentially whether to trust Baby (even though you don't have a choice). This was the first time an animatronic has ever tried to help you in the franchise.
Act 2: Nights 3-4. The B-story is introduced on Night 3; Baby's backstory. When she tells the player about how she killed Elizabeth. The jumpscare we get is literally a FALSE DEFEAT. We learn Baby is evil. The entirety of Night 4 is where we are a breath away from dying (highest stakes). The false "vistory" is the existence of other technicians with you and the fact that people ARE searching for the player. We never had other humans co-existing with us on a night before.
Act 3: Night 5 (fake + true)-Custom Night: The "all is lost" moment is when the technicians are hung (do y'all remember how youtubers reacted to that?!). There's no hope in being saved AND the animatronics can move around freely b/c the bodies tricked handunit. And the intersection of the A and B plot is the reveal that the girl voice heard between nights is the same girl Baby killed. The "final image" are the cutscenes in Custom Night. Michael's body decomposes, but he possesses himself. Ennard roams the sewers. And then there's the Springtrap cutscene, providing a twist and a hook for a sequel.
So maybe Sister Location is a prime example of how an effective story can truly carry a game.
Agreed
There was some cut dialogue of Freddy trying to talk the other animatronics out of tearing him apart and there are others of him hunting Gregory. That would’ve upped the stakes a lot
Agreed
I think the problem with security breach is that it seems to be using the plot the same way the previous games did: ie, as a sort of enticement or thing to search for and piece together through environments and secrets (like the therapy disks). That method worked well for the earlier games because they were relatively simple but fun gameplay wise, sparking the sort of community hunt for secrets and theorycrafting.
But Security Breach is a completely different type of game to any of the others, being much longer and with a near-open world and full movement. So the scattered, build-it-yourself approach to the story leaves the subpar gameplay to stand for itself. From what I've seen of the theories around the book tie-ins (which I have issues with as a lore device, btw), there does seem to be a larger and more interesting plot developing - but this doesn't leave SB as a very satisfying individual game.
Agreed
Your summary of the "Save the Cat" for the entire FNAF series pre-Help Wanted was really amazing and showed how much you both appreciate and understand the franchise. A really good video alongside that as well, coming from a retired FNAFhead!
Ok I see everyone's take on the game so I'm giving mine too.
First, I noticed that Scott's writing style is very superficial. He literally puts stuff in because it looks cool. hence why burntrap's inexplicably there.
Anyway, notice how none of the characters have any explainable motives. Freddy's helping gregory for literally no reason, Gregory doesn't trust Vanessa because he doesn't trust her??, and William's mind controlling Vanessa to kill kids also for no reason. Characters drive the plot forward just because Scott said so.
The fact that William is given a motive through the lore (losing Evan, discovering remnant, running "experiments" to bring people back from the dead so he can have his son back) and ALSO that there is a workable theme presented by all of this (not wanting to let go of others) and can be developed, makes it even worse because scott does nothing with the deeper ideas that he himself presented.
Also, I can understand why there are still games after pizzeria simulator because even though most characters died in the fire, A) Golden Freddy/Evan & Cassandra (or whatever her name is) wasn't even in the fire, making as a loose end and B) William entered the pizzeria knowing it was a trap, so it would only make sense that he'd have planned an exit for himself and becoming another loose end, for another sequel to happen.
Well Scott had next to nothing to do with the plot of this game. He retired from FNAF and gave the game entirely over to Steel Wool when this was being made. They even told Dawko he was only involved in the scrapped first draft of the story, the one in the OG trailer. He only checked on them when the game was supposed to be ready. This was almost entirely Steel Wool. The only plot Scott is involved with FNAF wise now, is the movie. Burn trap was supposed to have more to do with the story (judging from the trailer) but it’s heavily implied from scrapped Voice lines that most of the story had to be cut for a T rating.
@@NYCTOSEE well fuck i guess it's steel wool with the shit writing team then
"There is a right way and a wrong way to write a story." Apparently this is a hot take among writers and book readers, but this is for the most part a true statement. The sooner we all come to terms with this, the sooner we can move on from the tar pit that is critiquing books as a purely subjective outlook.
@@muffinchubby2352there is no wrong or right to making a story only how well it’s executed.
What's the point of art if it's all the same?
I haven't really gotten into FNAF but this video was still a great watch for me. What I liked most was your explanation of the story using the story structure that you proposed at the beginning. I always like videos that explain concepts in a structural manner as it makes them really easy to follow and break down. I guess I could perhaps see why some people are so obsessed over Security Breach cause they want to make the story better in various ways.
Honestly kinda bummed that this video isn't getting as much attention as your Deltarune videos cause I feel that this video is one of the best and most researched ones you've made so far. You did a good job on it. 👍
Agreed ❤
As a longtime FNaF fan whose been here since the beginning as well, my first reaction upon hearing the first words of this video being "I want to talk about FNaF" was to ask why the hell you'd want to do that, lol. But hey, this is a good video, you pretty much summed up all my points with Security Breach in a way I haven't been able to fully articulate, so nice job!
Agreed
If the Mimic theory is true, the game could have the theme of playing pretend - The Mimic pretending to be Afton, Gregory pretending to be just a normal kid, Vanny pretending to be just a hardass security guard, etc.
Agreed ❤❤
So I'm not the only one disgruntled with FNAFs current state post Help Wanted?
Don't worry you are not the only one
Absolutely fantastic video. I LOVE IT AAAAAAAAAA
I loved how this turned out! As someone who’s writing a FNaF AU that is a retelling of Security Breach but with Michael and the possessed animatronics being the main characters of the story, I am so happy to know you acknowledged the major flaws of SB’s story and how you addressed them. The research you put into it, the humor you added to the video, and the ideas and fixes you brought up, it all made the video worth watching until the end.
I really hope that Ruin and Help Wanted 2 tries to tell a complete story.
Agreed
Fnaf is what I like to call an undead series. A restless, walking corpse that can't stay in the ground. Or you can view more spectrally, it's a ghost that won't rest until it gets a satisfying conclusion
Agreed
I wish you were added to the writing team in the making of the upcoming FNAF games. You, unlike the current ones at SteelWool (and even more so to the ones who make the awful Tales From the Pizzaplex novels), know what you are doing
There is no writing team at steel wool and steel wool has nothing to do with the books
THANK you for making this video
i love people talking about writing stories, i lllllllove it
tho' it feels a little surreal seeing this right after watching the Phisnom FNaF lore stream lol
i like how, in your videos, you always take a critical eye over things and instead of bulking it up you take what's alrerady said and reorganize it. Like.... the pieces are .... being put toget-
Surprisingly, that was an enjoyable video that I can agree with. I had my doubts when you first said you wanted to not only branch out to other games but specifically to the lore landfill that is FNAF, but you’ve proved yourself
Glad to see someone who recognizes SB's many issues, but does not include the visuals in their list of issues they have with the game. I love the Pizzaplex and I love the Glamrocks, I just wish they were in a better game and had a better story. I don't even mind SB not being scary tbh, if it was not scary but had a compelling story I would've been on board
there is no spirit of a young kid in burntrap, matpat got that one EXTREMELY wrong. that's not stated anywhere, it's not even in the books. matpat literally made it up. burntrap is purely the mimic piloting afton's corpse.
Yeah I was mostly referring to the Mimic theory, which some people think implies Edwin's son is in Burntrap. I don't necessarily agree, just referencing a popular theory. Will probably give my own thoughts in the future.
This was a really good watch, and you explained everything so well.
I jumped when you mentioned Snyder’s Save The Cat because it’s sitting right next to me, waiting to be read. Now I feel compelled to lol
What I hate most about the game is yes.
Its WAY TO CARTOONY it takes away the feel of the real world making kids think they are coming for them
Like remember in FNAF 4 you see images of people in real life in game (out of game its Scotts Family)
even without the plot, undertale would've probable still been good in terms of gameplay tbh. but given how most people probably aren't (or at least weren't) into bullet hell, and are very into fun story/characters, it absolutely wouldn't have blown up like it did
Honestly, Undertale's battle system was a very fun and beginner friendly take on the regular danmaku game. Very Unique, probably would've pulled a lot of people in nontheless
I think he just means it would have been unexceptional. The gameplay is good but it's not monumental without the narrative context for stuff
You’ve really gotta do more fnaf videos, the series is so good🙏
spookydood ur so good at explaining stuff pls never stop making videos
Thanks! (I'm not planning on stopping ANYTIME soon, haha)
Great video on storytelling. I’d agree that as the games become more character and story driven they need to have proper story formatting.
I’d argue that one of the reasons the original FNaF games got so popular wasn’t just because it had L O R E but because we knew (or thought) there was a story in there and we needed to solve it as a community for a proper “narrative.”
But not having a solid plot is just among another thing that I am somewhat disheartened about when it comes to the story. Another major thing in my opinion is the over reliance on other mediums such as the books to help tell the story of a stand-alone game. For example, we wouldn’t even know the mimic is a thing if not for the books or consider that an evil Charlie could be in control through an all knowing mimic-tree or whatever the current theory is.
Again, good video on basic storytelling and why plot is necessary for an enjoyable experience. I’m looking forward to seeing what you have next in your upcoming content, story-related or otherwise.
Hero? Henry sat on his ass for literal decades while William was out torturing and murdering children.
I dont know much about the fnaf story but did henry knew about that?
He was designing the traps for Afton it's explained in help wanted two
@@timedeathe I don't remember seeing anything like that in hw2
LOVE this analysis from a "good script-storywriting" perspective, props
28:21 the way you talk reminds me of that guy from rick and morty who reads his story to morty in the purge episode to let them use his lighthouse lol
I still have no idea why the game is nothing like the trailers.
How you dare putting PEAK of banban in F
The way you talked about this topic is great. This stands out from other videos regarding the future of fnaf. I hope there will be more content like this in the future. (:
Well I gotta give it to you, you did in fact blow my mind right after you said you were gonna blow my mind.
Albiet as you said such a structure existing was clearly on accident, and even then the structure was done out in a VERY non linear fashion, the first beats of ACT 1 coming right before the act 3 finale.
But it definitely helped 6 feel like a real finale
super awesome video! I love the deltarune stuff but it's nice to see you go into depth about other games!
Thanks!
20:35 Right on the fucking money with that one. This theme was very much set up in Help Wanted 1 and given hints in messages you can find in Security Breach with one reading, "Why did you reopen? We all know what happened to those kids!"
That was such a well made essay. I would love to hear your thoughts on the Ruin DLC as well, do you think this DLC fixed the flawed structure of the story? Great video!
amazing vid!!!!
this is genuinely my biggest gripe with security breach and tbh fnaf in general, though to a lesser extent. im not big on playing the games so gameplay doesnt really matter to me, but ive been obsessed with the lore and characters since the first game. i cant get into fnaf:sb because there ARE no characters. i love gregory and freddys friendship but comic relief can only get you so far, we dont know anything about gregory, and i dont care if its a "mystery", the game should AT LEAST tell you WHY hes in the pizzaplex at all, he doesnt have an arc!! hell, michael had one, even if it took 6 whole games to understand. i feel like they focused so much on the spectacle of a free roam game that they completely forgot to put characters in it.
Gregory was a poorly written character, he was uncaring and rude throughout.
Repeatedly lying to Freddy, saying that the other animatronics(his friends) "get what they deserve". Excitedly telling Freddy that he can take parts from the glamrocks and upgrade him, This wasn't a good friendship.
And we do have a few good characters like Freddy, Roxy, Daycare Attendant.
15:58 The sad part is the fact we were gonna get a bigger game but due to the one thing Triple A Games suffer with the almighty DEADLINE, it got chopped up and quickly sealed over to push a holiday release so fans would stop whining about it taking too long.
Now we have a complimentary free DLC as an apology coming out in the coming weeks, I feel like we had a great structure in the Era where Vanessa played Freddy's role and Afton had actual voicelines however I wish we could see what that Alpha game looked like for comparison...
@SpookyDood Hey Spooky I got a question I got to ask based on all of the Evidence given to us from Deltarune "and yeah I know off topic" do you think they'll release Chapters 3 4 and 5 on December for the HOLIDAYS since well in chapter 2 it seems that most of the basis kinda surrounds Noelle in more then a Side Character kinda deal? 🤔
Fantastic video. Some excellent points, especially in the potential themes section. Nice job.
Very nice video and I pretty much agree with everything you’ve stated. An overall theme I could think of for SB could maybe be death? Like the plot of the game could’ve been about trying to kill off the vermin that is Fazbear Ent. off of the face of the Earth for good. Idk. I’m not good with creating themes and what not. 😅 I did like the one about profiting off of the grief of others and some the comments also proposed some interesting ones as well.
I enjoyed this video. You helped me fix a fan fic Im writing as well as educate me on FNAF
This video was great, and has actually given me hope that FNAF can come around again!
anyone else gotten randomly obsessed with security breach recently?? what a perfectly timed video
I love this video alot because instead of "Game bad have you considered making a good game (drake laptop gif)" , it's an actual constructive video and I feel like would help if the story have ACTUAL writing to it rather than just gameplay and lore
And this is coming from a lorehead that LOVES figuring out the lore; that's the fun part
but wit the current state of Fnaf that whole "gameplay first, lore bits second" formula won't work anymore. We're tired of chasing carrots on a stick (it was fun for the first 3 games now it's just annoying)
We need characters we need struggles we need ARCS
we need more, man.
Security Breach wouldve been fine as a fan game. Not a canon game.
2:09 LOL the jab at Nick Carlson there had me dying XD
A very insightful video! So many things I'd never thought of!
I like that you have OMORI as S tier. That made my afternoon.
After Glitchtrap was revealed in Help Wanted, I had a bad feeling about the future of the franchise.
After Security Breach came out, I lost faith within the franchise.
After Security Breach Ruin came out, I thought it was boring.
After FNaF Plus was canceled, I was no longer a FNaF fan.
Post Ruin, and I've got hope that future games can turn this around. Ruin wasn't great, but it was a small hopeful glimpse into what the future might be
@@muffinchubby2352 it's definitely not good. But it's better than SB.
@@CalamitasCalliopeit is actually pretty good, and the jump scares feel aaa quality even though it’s a indie game studio :))
@@muffinchubby2352literally I bet you haven’t played it and only watched ppl play it 🙄
@@weegi7227I played it bruh shits actually ass fnaf is a shit franchise now it’s literally to child targeted
@@weegi7227💀 yes that completely destroys his argument. Good job
DDLC not in S tier 😭
LOL I put it in S because it's a very unique concept that, to my knowledge, hadn't really been done that effectively before. That being said I think Granny is better.
TLDR: I describe how much I enjoyed the video & I leave my own interpretations of the story how I thought it was going to play out. I love the series too much as I describe what I think what was going to be the start of the game & how it would play out with choices & how Vanny is a threat, & how I personally would've dealt with the horror you can read if you want (I genuinely thought this way while speculating with friends)
My thoughts of the video & why I was disappointed with Security Berach:
I've been with the series since I was a kid, as a teen I can say that this video is simply brilliantly executed I thought it was just was gonna be another youchuber complain about the game & its flaws. But I was pleasantly surprised to be opened up to a new way of telling stories that I never thought of before. This is a masterclass of a video, & conveys my problems with the game. I found myself nodding & agreeing as the game felt like a slog to play, at first I did enjoy it. But that's because I rarely used Freddy, but it felt bare bones on the plot side. I was disappointed Vanny never had like an uprising cult of Afton or maybe that other children were in the PizzaPlex that we could save as if Vanny was going to use them as a sacrifice in the rise of pleasing her mentor: Afton attempting to bring him back. When I heard TellTale developers & Pixar animators were at the helm of this game, I got really excited. My mind started to race at the thought of decisions, & choices we waited ages for this game. I was one of the few fans that was actually patient with devs as my life would go as on while SteelWool & Scott would grind getting this game out. But it was different than I thought I would play out, like completely differently from the trailers to the game. Here's a rough idea to how I would've done the intro, I quite enjoyed it (The og game) but Idk it leaves a lot of potential for the story.
My Ideal intro to the game:
Maybe at the start of the game Vanny kidnapped us as humming a tune as she's in a secret hideout. Her place is trashed with parts, a liquid substance on the floor (remnant?), with various masks & costumes along the wall showing us she has several personas, given that she likes to pretend make believe, with environmental story telling along with an actual plot to start with.
We nearly escape as a puzzle or distraction mechanic teaching the player stealth is the key to survival. We quietly escape as Vanny checks our previous now empty cell screaming loudly while smashing things in the room, wielding her knife. Having her be an actual threat to us & the main character.
We pick up the pace to bump into the FredMister along the way. He sees us & follows, But Vanny is gone, we hide somewhere as Freddy talks, us being shook up the tension builds as Freddy scares us thinking he's Vanny we scream in his face, we continue to run thinking he's a threat.
He does chase us, but he's visibly worried about us. Gregory continues to shut himself from Freddy, this tells the player that Gregory trusts no one at the start. Starting the game properly...
what was that indie horror teir list from at 33:14
Great video, you're incredible as usual!
I miss when fnaf was just "5 kids trying to get revenge on their killer"
To me, ultimate custom night was the ending of fnaf
All the souls have moved on and Afton has been left to suffer with his own creations forever
i'm loving your videos man
personally i would prefer if fnaf ditched Afton once and for all and focused instead on Fazber Intertainment as the main villain, following the "evil corporation" horror trope, maybe using the Afton ghost on directors' board's leash as a secondary villian. I think it would be a nice fit for the franchise as it kinda already was utilised in the very first game, where Scott mocked cheap jobs with horrible conditions and employers that don't care about their employees in the slightest. I think seeing Scott's take on this trope would be interesting
They already ditched him
And fazbear entertainment is already a villain
I just want to point something out. Towards the end of the video, you point out the possibility of the Mimic being Burntrap, then move onto just talking about William Afton as though he’s still alive.
That is… overlooking some very big stuff. The books featuring the Mimic have made it VERY clear that the Mimic1 program is Glitchtrap. And if the Mimic is Glitchtrap, then that’s a big shot in the foot for William Afton, since Glitchtrap was supposedly his new form.
And then on top of that, the physical animatronic Mimic is also being set up to become Burntrap. It’s a 5-fingered endoskeleton with bunny ears who is locked inside the FNaF 6 pizzeria, and in the latest book, seemingly merges with a corpse.
These two facts combined make it seem clear that Steel Wool has no intentions of bringing Afton back. In fact, it almost makes it seem like one of the big twists of Security Breach was going to be the reveal that Glitchtrap and Burntrap aren’t William Afton; that reveal has just been pushed to the books due to all the cut content.
And if that’s not the case- if Mimic1 isn’t Glitchtrap and the physical Mimic isn’t Burntrap- then it’s basically just deceptive storytelling at this point. A book series first revealed as being set in the timeline of the games, which has been actively rewritten from previous drafts to better fit the world of Security Breach, has nothing to do with the games, and its setup of a plotline with a new antagonist who isn’t William Afton is completely meaningless and William Afton is actually back from the dead I guess.
That’s just stupid. There’s no way that’s correct.
WITH ALL THAT BEING SAID! I really enjoyed this video. I like the approach you took of not changing the story too much. So many videos like this scrap everything Security Breach was trying to be and replace it with shit that feels like a bad fan game, but you actually took the time to analyze where Security Breach failed, and made suggestions on how to change just those areas. It was… a lot of areas, but still, you get my point.
Great work on this video, and god save the Mimic, or something.
DLC confirms that burntrap is not mimic unfortunately. The Endos are completely different and the Mimic was trapped during the events of base game
As for the Mimic 1 program, that also has been disproven to be William, as it’s stated that Glitchtrap was created from the chip of one of the burnt Animatronics from FNAF 6… during which mimic was sealed in concrete. So I guess it really is deceptive storytelling, I couldn’t tell you. This is furthermore shown as if Mimic was the one in control of the systems in base security breach…. Then why did it need the kid to unlock everything? Couldn’t it of just done it itself?
@@undonechrist1384
1.Burntraps model is literally just reused assets from multiple characters
2.The mimic wasn't trapped in that tiny room until after security breach
3. It was never stated that the circuit boards that were scanned came from the fnaf 6 fire
There wouldn't even be anything to scan on them anyway because they'd be melted into nothing
4. The mimic was not brought to the fnaf 6 location until long after the fire
5. The mimic can't do anything about the security in ruin because it's not a system he's part of
And then the FNAF movie came out and... it seems like it's going the same direction as Security Breach did... trying to be appealing to younger audience. I think people praise this movie too much. While i did enjoy it, i left the theaters wishing there was more to it. It was supossed to be a horror, and it turned out to be barely a thriller.
L take
@@Levi_Byrn23 Hey, it's just my opinion. I have nothing against people who call it a masterpiece. I still think it was a decent movie, but as a game adaptation, it felt way too lacking.
If the night where Abby snuck out of office to play with animatronics was changed to night where animatronics actually go mad and try to break in the office, while Mike tries to keep them out, the movie would be much better in my eyes. It would make more sense lore wise, it would be more thrilling, and the table fortress scene wouldn't exist. Say whatever you want about that, but personally i think that would make the movie better.
Pretty much had the same feeling leaving the theatre. Had a lot of fun watching the movie as a fan of 9 years but even I thought, "Yeah, I can see why the critics don't like this mkvie as much as the fans."
I like your theme idea, i never realized the themes were non-existent (tho o was low key expecting a point to be raised by Gregory or the lore about your theme concept 1(which ia a shame, because afton lore aside, I can't believe after the first game/canonical restruant(pick your poison), i can't believe so many oblivious parents(and low key man children 😏 i bet cawthon at least considered that idea for one of these games lol) can keep falling for this over and over(and how Freddy's entrertainment or whatever connected sister locations could last '87 atleast 😅)
also been here since its inception, i haven’t cared since fnaf 6 like a lot of us. very obvious cash grab for a while now
Its a popular franchise of course whoever gets their rights on it are going to milk it
You know at first I thought the same thing. “The story had a perfect ending and security breach came in and ruined it by throwing off plot”
But he’s right. This could be a new story of a similar idea, sequels exist for a reason. And honestly yeah, it might not be doomed. But this could go a bad direction very fast.
Very insightful video and refreshing from the usual “go to, one way solution” videos.
Sadly I don't think anyone related to me wrote this book.
I think fnaf just had really intresting gameplay with sitting in creepy place at night alone as creepy robots close try to kill you
I agree with you about being attached to the old story, they must have leave William alone at the very least.
How i see it, the Original 6 games Season 1,All the new Games is now Season 2 With episode 1 being help wanted, then secrutiy breach, ruined and maybe "season 2" will end with help wanted 2
Here's my stab at a blind theme on the spot: regardless of the past, you must move forward with the sins past to keep on trying to forge a better future(or just a easy teaching victims to forgive like the one who shouldn't have been killed that's in a constant death loop with Afton in his weird limbo punishment (as i don't think he can feel the pain 😅 just the players lol i will say tho... Did any of these games had a theme 😅 I'm digressing hard buy still want that discussion, sorry lol), maybe start mentioning whoever is in charge who's keeping the series going despite afton's curse is gonna follow this company past his grave.
I am not a writer, but it seems like Deltarune chapter 1 checks off a lot of the check boxes on that checklist on it's own. Same with chapter 2. I don't know, I'm not a writer.
I genuinely don’t think much of the story was scrapped in the Final Cut. Otherwise that is just sheer incompetence on the developer’s part, yet I wouldn’t be surprised either.
Hmm... my own theme. I've always liked the idea that scary monsters of ambiguous alignment turn out to be trustworthy after all.
Maybe the burntrap at the end is just tired and actually sick of always coming back, and helps you defeat Vanny, the monster he created, so you can escape, making the player promise to kill him and make sure it sticks this time. In which the player can follow through or not for different endings. In the one where they refuse, he turns on them and tries to kill them. On the one where they follow through, he gives a final sigh and says something like "now I have paid for my sins; now I can rest."
I guess my theme idea morphed into the ending of cycles, and the irony of the one who perpetuated the cylce for so long getting tired and wanting out.
I dunno.
Oh wow that would have been an amazing premise, afton actually atoning for sins helping us. Would have loved that! 😃
9:16 it’s still a pretty good example of story structure. That’s probably why you kept using it.
My problem is a horror franchise censored and kid friendly, fnaf should not be kid friendly it should be scary the right way
Man, I'm tired of people saying Ruin fixed everything. Its still childish and has non-existent stakes. It has no violence, no death, the monsters aren't very intimidating, nothing that happens in this game scares me. A horror game has to be one of three things, in my opinion. Disturbing, creepy, or terrifying. I don't put these together because these three can be separated.
A disturbing horror game will keep you up at night thinking about it, picturing the events in your head. Something gorey and with some disgusting details in the story, or something psychological and clever in its story. Outlast and Amnesia are good examples.
A creepy horror game is something that makes you feel dread while you play it, normally has a shocking ending or twist it builds towards. This probably has more open-ended horror and paranormal tones. Silent Hill is a good example.
A terrifying horror game is "jumpscare central"! Loud noises, horrifying striking visuals, something that'll make your heart pound. Not a game for the faint of heart. This is what FNAF 1 to UCN was..
Security breach isn't disturbing, its not particularly creepy, and its FAR from terrifying. Indie games made by one or two people had me more on edge. The structure tries to be the survival horror kind of game, like Resident Evil, Bendy, etc. But it fails in that too! Resident Evil, even in its "bad" games in the franchise has a strong story that has a solid conclusion at the end, where the villains are defeated. Bendy even has a strong story, albiet a little confusing at times. Most ends are tied up by the second game, though.
Security Breach has a weak story, just a "escape" plot that really doesn't make the player care all that much. Being inside feels the same as ending up outside. None of the players were begging to leave by the end, like other games where the facility is agonizing or terrifying like Amnesia. So you don't really care whether Gregory gets out, now the player isn't invested literally in the start of the story. That's catastrophic for the games' story!
Gregory has almost no character. A horror game that has a MC has two routes to go down. Make the MC not speak, EVER. (The structure Scott Cawthon chose, which I prefer honestly.) Or, make a character you can care about and relate to. Some of the best horror protags have charisma and have a reason for you to care. Gregory is not that. We don't know shit about him or why we should care at all.
The villains are a joke. Vanny is wasted potential to the highest degree. I won't elaborate because this comment is getting really long, but to put it frankly;
The "bad guy" in a horror game is the focus. Its who makes the experience, the one who chases you down, the things that jump at you and make you scream. Its THE MOST important aspect in my opinion. FNAF understood that for years until Steelwool. Springtrap/William is a great villain, or was. He is detestable and cruel in every decision that drives the story. Everyone connected to him has a hand in the story, and that's what I love the most about FNAF lore. But now he has been tainted. And no one ever mentions the horrors of what he did, like SB is censored. Glam Freddy doesn't say he killed kids and Vanny lost her knife. A horror game is meant to use all available tools to SCARE YOU. Steelwool decided to do the opposite. Make it less scary, less explicit. Despite FNAF's audience being older and growing up with the previous games. It's stupid to remove gruesome details for the sake of "making it more kid-friendly."
GORE IS NOT SCARY
@@brunogoldbergferro5664 It can be. Even if it isn't scary to you, it certainly can be. I genuinely wish I DIDN'T get scared by it but I do.
Just to give a brief example, since I was a kid I've been deathly afraid of gore like in Happy Tree Friends or Saw. It is nightmare inducing, every time. No matter how much older I get it still fucking petrifies me. But like I said, if you aren't affected, more power to you! 🙏
Read the books
That's where fnaf has only ever had gore
2:09
Critical hit
I am gonna disagree with you on security breach not having a plot, but ill get to that in a moment, i kinda feel there are 2 eras of FNAF, the scot cawthron (1-UCN) and steel wool (VR-present) the reason I say this is cause the first however many scott made all have that same style, sit in a location, try to survive till 6am doing tasks (watching cameras, winding toy box, fixing vents, checking the bed+cupboard, making sure the anamtronics are working, running a pizza place) whereas in steelwool its more than doing that, which i feel is the first problem the fans saw, its not like the scott era of fnaf so it must be bad, true or not is debatable, personally i like the fact its different, shows they care, but the second reason is the crunch, which explains all the glitches at the start, and finally to loop back to the start of my comment, it had too much it wanted to do, which lead to plot points going no where, and in the current state we have so many questions so many paths most of which contradicting themselves, elements left on the cutting room floor, was there more arcade games that you should have played to get another ending? how many endings changed? they had far too many plot points in one game (or section of a game) that they could have spread out over other games, like the vanny ending they could have tweaked it a bit and have it be the DLC ending or something, that way more time worked on it and the base game feels less croded
Lore of The Failure of Modern FNAF (is Fnaf RUINED?) | Five Nights at Freddy's Security Breach Discussion momentum 100
i already gave up on fnaf because its hard to enjoy the story when the "story" is really shaky guesses that keep getting contradicted by the books because the writers have this obsession with making everything so vague that its not compelling
I just personally dont like the light hearted horror and atmosphere alongside the lore direction. I dont need blood and guts, but this isnt what even had me interested in the series when I was younger. It just feels like idk.. fandom bait? Bright silly quirky characters with personality which just like.. isnt what the series was. It was a uncomfortable atmosphere with little to take your mind off the worry of something bursting into your office. Not being sure of what you're looking at on cams and what youre hearing down the hallway, a semi realistic artstyle/vibe to toned down almost hello neighbor esk design in characters human and otherwise and just running from characters once in a while in this brightly lit labyrinth. While it isnt bad on its own. But.. as a sequel to what came before. Its just too ridiculous to take seriously and or be genuinely scared of and or unerved by. Nor is it a good lead up to the source material because it almost rehashes the elements of 6, vague mentions of characters you may know? The company believed to collapsed is now back and at its height? New bright silly top of the line characters characters that can't be confused for something scary. you have a final showdown with the big bad at the end and it all goes up in flames. Idk man I just feel like this wouldve been better as a fangame or anything else. I wouldve preferred a game that made me question what its about intentionally. Instead of feeling like the devs didnt know how to string things together and tell a vague story in an entire game that feels like its supposed to be story driven because the rest of the game just isn't fun enough or scary enough to keep you engaged. I really hope that soon the games return to something a little more atmospheric and less large in scope. Or... hear me out. The series ends.
Incredible great video!
I feel like you're leaving out a sort of subjectivity element out of this analysis. If someone says they like a "bad" movie plot better than a "good" movie plot, would you say they're objectively wrong for believing? Plus, I don't think you define what it means to be "Good or "Bad" very well. You tell us that certain things in media are good or bad, or that certain types of storytelling are more effective than others, but what does that MEAN? More people like it? It makes you feel better? It stands out more? Alright, there's about 50 hours of potential channel content lined out for you. Enjoy!
I've also heard it said that a good way to write a tightly-knit plot is to follow the "But/Therefore" model. Basically, when planning out the events that make up your story, write them such that the description starts with "But" or "Therefore". IE, don't write "John goes to the store AND they're out of milk AND then he fights a ninja", instead write "John goes to the store BUT a ninja's taken the last carton of milk THEREFORE John fights the ninja to claim it." That's a silly example, of course, but this way each thing that happens is strongly tied to the thing that happened before it, which makes the whole plot feel much more coherent. If you want a strong example of this, watch Back To The Future - it's got one of the tightest, best-paced plots that I've ever seen. The film's just under two hours long but it feels longer because so much happens. This is possible because it's so economical with its time - not a second is wasted.
HE SAID RUIN IN THE TITLE!!!! THIS COULD BE LORE RELEVENT
Rate my concept, I just came on with it during the video: The Pizzaplex is profiting through the murders and killer robots and Afton is trying to stay alive just to destroy everything that is profiting through his deeds and his death, he already burned fazbear fright and few years later the company came on with ten times bigger place. The player would discover Afton's intriuge and the company's deeds and would have to choose to let Afton destroy the place or to defend the Pizzaplex. We must remember that Afton's actions weren't extremely bad to the bone, he was trying to save his little son, I don't support killing children of course. The whole storyline would explain that you can't change death and to not let your grief consume you and push you to some intensive actions.
Afton did not care for his children and he'd probably enjoy being "worshipped" like that
20:26 EXACTLY
I think a lot of people don't realize that this game is rushed.
I'm having a hard time agreeing that a story's structure needs to meet specific standards to be considered "good" because that feels like a way of controlling art rather that looking at it in a critically and nuanced way. I also feel like having the midpoint of stories always be a false victory would get old at some point.
Why vanny/vanessa couldn't just be a copycat killer of william?
Fr she should have just been a William Stan 💀
And the Princess should have been a Golden Freddy Stan
✨ the mimic ✨
Okay, so the theme is erasure/undermining of Pearsons identity. Freddy is actually Michael Afton stuk in this metal body, loosing himself to the programming, Vanessa is losing herself to glitchtrap, Gregory is lost in an arcade mall with killer robots, but he also hacked them all before, and now they are hacked and trying to kill him. Also mimic is real and he saw Willyboy kill kids losing their lives and something something willyboy bad and robot is copying him In more ways than just tearing people apart
I sensed 2 unconfirmed theories within that whole argument
Michael Afton isn't Glamrock Freddy, the latter is a sentient AI.
I say it again, you're awesome..
I think FNAF fans tend to forget that lore does not equate to story or vice versa. Story is what is happening as opposed to Lore which is what has happened. In other words lore is the stuff you sprinkle around your story to assist in world-building but like any topping if you sprinkle too much of it and neglect the story you make something inedible. Scott has coasted for far too long on the atmosphere, design and gameplay while kind of neglecting plot structure, characterisation and other details like that. I don't consider the books to be an acceptable substitute (putting aside their wildly inconsistent quality and dubious continuity) for the games having a proper plot to follow. This is a really well-articulated discussion about the series, I loved every second watching it.
Edit: I definitely think the theme should've been letting things end and really leaning into Fazbear Entertainment being the true villains here with their callous attitude towards the tragedies and refusal to let the brand die.
i think my main problem with your analysis at the end is that you only analyse with respect to the two games, and not considering any of the books. whether we like it or not, fnaf is a multimedia franchise now, and the books should be considered with equal footing to the games. the setup wouldnt be the ride at the beginning of help wanted, but instead the creation of the mimic by edwin.
yAaaaaaaas Scott's transmedia AND crossmedia storytelling acknowledgment, FINALLY!!!!! where are all my Nomura fans at???
Your content is amazing, and I'm glad you appear to be among the sole voices in the Deltarune/Undertale fandom willing to use actual narrative analysis and theory (as opposed to vague fanfiction wishcasting) when discussing upcoming content. This video is also good.
*However*, as a video producer you really need to learn how to cut down your scripts, man. This video doesn't really start until 3:36, and I think you repeated your premise at least four, maybe five times? That makes sense from the perspective of a stream of consciousness lecture, but for prepared content it really needs to be streamlined and sharpened.
I'd recommend listening to yourself talk before you start attaching B-roll, and considering tighter length ratio. Maybe make a resolution to cut a video to ~70% of what you filmed or something, I dunno. With a smarter approach to editing the final project, I legitimately think you could be a top tier youtuber in this (admittedly niche) category of no-nonsense indy game analysts.
18:03 😮❤
28:20
I love it