SOLVING DELTARUNE'S BIG TWIST | Gaster Theory | Deltarune Theory and Discussion
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 เม.ย. 2023
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Trying to imagine the ending of Deltarune is nearly impossible. Figuring out where Gaster fits in, how the Roaring will be stopped, and when we'll find Dess is something the community has been trying to do for years. And I think I've done it. In this video, using only factual evidence provided in-game, I solve Gaster, Dess, The Weird Route, and the ending of Deltarune... And then I talk about how it's IMPOSSIBLE to predict the ending of Deltarune...
Fangames played: "Undertale Bits and Pieces" by Mr. George
gamejolt.com/games/UndertaleB...
#deltarune #deltarunechapter2 #undertale #theory - เกม
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2 corinthians 11:14 : 'And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.'
Toby fox wrote the bible to foreshadow?????!!!!!!
@@Alvagame OMG TOBY FOX MADE THE BIBLE , REAL??!!1!1!1!1!!???
@@seantay3279 real.
@@seantay3279 real.
@@seantay3279 real.
"Why did susie use rude buster on werewires and still get pacified" i thought it was because she cut the wires that were turning the plug people into werewires
I know right I thought it was pretty obvious😂
After all, Rude Buster is this crescent beam shot from Susie’s axe, so it would make sense for it to cut.
@@tysondennis1016 then why you can use it in battle? i hope they fire who did such blunder
@@Kayther33 “well if you can cut the wires by throwing kris and using his sword to cut The wires then why can you use his sword in battle?”
Yes, literally
Honestly the "toby needed a realistic way for Noelle to think it was all a dream" isn't that farfetched. But it's not impossible or weird that Noelle would think it's a dream if she woke up on the ground. In chapter one, Susie also brings up that it could have been a dream even when she moved from the closet to the unused classroom.
The thing is, what happens to the dark world happens to Lightners in the real world. I mean, when Berdly broke his arm in the dark world, it's was also broken in the light world after he woke up.
@HBegaming YT That sounds pretty reasonable, food doesn't "count" either, so it's basically like a dream. Some people think Weird Route Berdley might be "fallen down" (comatose) instead of dead, which could be similar.
If anything waking up on the floor makes more sense than perfectly staying on the chair
I think it's just the dark worlds being able to make slight changes to the light world when sealed. You could argue many small reasons why Noelle and Berdly were sitting but Kris and Susie weren't, but in the end point still stands that he probably intentionally twisted the story slightly to make it work.
The ending can't be predicted by anyone because its based off a fever dream Toby had. Unless someone tries to induce a fever dream about Deltarune's ending or something
You are a genius, if you don't here from me in 6 weeks, I'm in a coma.
@@doggoking7905 lol
time to induce a fever dream for the sake of deltarune theorizing.
@@doggoking7905
Its been 3 weeks are you ok so far?
@@doggoking7905it’s been four you up yet?
I will say regarding theories like Kris not being the knight, you can still make an argument that it's planting a red herring for similar reasons as a lot of the arguments here- we are working with an incomplete story and there is just enough plausible deniability (Ralsei doesn't mention noticing cyber world at ALL in the first castle town visit and only mentions noticing its presence after Kris and Susie arrive, for instance) that while it's easy to see why people think Kris is the knight, it's still reasonable for people to propose alternatives. I think the biggest problem with Deltarune theorycrafting is when people act like they are right, but I also don't see the harm in people getting deeply analytical because to a lot of people find joy in the act of guessing and theorycrafting with an ongoing story. What people NEED to remember is that this isn't a competition. We gain nothing from acting like we have all the answers. Everyone was so certain Kris would turn out to be evil and go on a murder spree in Chapter 2, and then the "crack theory" that they just ate pie came true. xD With Toby, there's no guarantees, so I do get the spirit of the argument here. We as a fandom just need to keep our expectations in check and be cool with each other.
IT’S DORKED!!!!! :D
@Dorked I don’t understand at ALL why people think Ralsei is a reliable source. They’re clearly running interference on a lie that “Kris” is responsible for.
i've also seen people making completely bullshit theories and going "toby would do this" which is the other extreme
but yeah honestly rn its just for the fun of trying to see what kinds of interesting things happen when you fit random loose puzzle pieces together
Regarding to the "Kris is the Knight" theory, I've always stood that it's chapter 2's equivalent of chapter 1's "It was all just a roleplay"
The thing about theories is that their effectiveness depends on how complete a story is, and how the writer conveys the story. A good story, in my opinion, will keep many things deliberately vague in order to surprise the viewer, but has enough foreshadowing that it doesn’t make the plot twists feel like asspulls.
Basically, what I’m trying to say is that you can predict some things, but you cannot predict everything. That’s why I like theories that deal with individual questions, instead of trying to tie them all together in a cohesive narrative. That’s what the full game is for.
Unless the game is badly written like Fnaf and you have to include all the answers in a goddamn book series that may or may not even be canon.
I agree, fnaf isn't a good series or peak fiction like people say. 90% PERCENT of the story from what WE KNOW is a theory, nothings confirmed and the fandom has an habit of retconning itself (e.x when sister location came out, everyone thought the main protagonist was william, but then came to the conclusion it was Michael)
That's not how good writing goes, it's just lazy writing
To have the fandom WRITE THE STORY FOR YOU. It's feels lazy, that since alot of what fnaf story is lore. If there's a mistake or something wrong with it. Scott can just debunk it and leave the fans to figure it out and hope they come up with something good, and hope the ENTIRE FANDOM JUST AGREES WITH IT. Which they barely do, because depending on the person you ask, the fnaf lore is a different story of a different genre with sometimes different themes. (like for example some believe in remnant, while others believe in simple ghost posession)
It's just shows how lazy it is because you can never enjoy fnafs story (the most interesting thing about it) because of it is just universally agreed head canon.
It's why i think the deltarune community overanalyze everything. The games only 2 chapter long and guess what?
Most of the theories we have is gonna be debunked by the time chapter 3 comes out.
Remember we thought kris would go on a genocide run at the end of chapter 1. But at chapter 2 not the case (well not in the way we expect)
Theorizing is fun because we try to answer questions before they get answered or mysteries aren't meant to be answered and come up with our intrepation of it.
Writing the whole deltarune story for toby is stupid and overanalyizing won't do much because like i said, with the chapter 1 ending, toby knows how to subvert our expectations.
I think even if they're wrong, it's interesting to have a look at these theories. I want to hear all the dumbest predictions and see why people came to that conclusion
@@yaban360 That’s why I used to be so obsessed with fnaf 1 - 4 and theories and then stopping liking fnaf after fnaf 5 because a large majority of the “lore” was just fan theories and game theory’s / mappat’s theories and not actually confirmed lore in any of the games.
A tidbit about the angel, on the Undertale artbook there is a concept drawing of an an ice cave in snowdin that was cut from the game. That piece of art has an illustration of the angel which suspiciously looks like Noelle with the flowing dress and reindeer like antlers the angel is depicted with.
I think there will be two angels for the two primary routes, one as noelle, and the other as us
where? im looking through the artbook and not finding it. im not trying to accuse you of lying or anything btw, im probably just missing it
@@melodyMonger413 google Undertale ice cave and there should be a image of a drawing of a hallway diagram and the link should be attributed to the cutting room floor. That's the image that is in the artbook.
I'm looking for it in that drawing and I cant find it!
Oh, I see what you mean. I guess it could be the angel that is depicted there, but since the room was cut I guess we’ll never know.
Considering Flowey's save file hijack from Undertale, Gaster choosing to do the same would be a fun parellel.
And very much possible, as Toby really likes having Deltarune call back to Undertale.
I wouldn't be suprised if that was the case even with such a major story beat.
would make sense why theres more then one save slot. you got banished from the world and he took over it and stole your power so a that save is inacessable to you. he knows what your capable of and used you to claim that world. you should have to go back to a older save to get the real end.
Also the connections between gaster and omega flowey
Around the time that the Gaster posts on Toby's Twitter profile, he changed his profile picture to a gif of the realistic face on the omega flowey face.
The orange soul hands in the omega fight having holes in them
Gaster and flowey both have presence in the code.
Gaster is referred to as "him" in the files and Asriel's theme is called "His Theme"
The hyper goner from the Asriel fight both has a tie to the goner kid because of its name. But it also looks like a Gaster blaster mixed with the determination extractor.
My theory is that the final boss will perform a save reset, sending the player back to Chapter 0, which does exist in the files. some of my proof is a pattern of .ogg files with single letter names that so far have spelled wd, like W. D. Gaster. if this keeps up, the r will be in the 8th chapter, which in this case will be Chapter 0. Chapter 0 will, according to this theory, be the finale.
Ralsei's description of the roaring says that the darkners "one by one will turn to stone" meaning that Rouxls Kaard turning to stone later than Lancer does have a valid lore explanation.
how? lmao that proves it doesn’t even more.
@@boeyboman8184 do you know what "one by one" means?
you're literally doing the thing that the op was talking about. One by one means nothing else besides "all the darkeners will slowly turn to stone" lmfao get a grip. @@bomberBrandon
@@boeyboman8184one by one - definition: separately and in succession; singly.
No need to be rude when you don’t even understand what you’re talking about.
@@randoviewer5212 yeah slowly, separately and in succession they will all turn it means nothing
45:29 for the heck of it, here's some explanations for those issues
Clocks - Every clock in the school is broken which could be a funny gag with a character waiting forever for class to end (probably Tem)
Rude Buster - Susie specifically aimed Rude Buster at the wires, unplugging and freeing the Werewires without dealing damage them
Windows - The school has skylights?
Alphys - Alphys is probably anxious enough to not want to check on Susie herself, and didn't want any other casualties than Kris
Sans - He moved in a few months ago, enough time to have 'regulars' and still not know the town
Summer vacation - maybe Kris does know when Asriel comes home but just keeps wanting to reaffirm it (kinda like people who are subbed to 'Daily Silksong News'). Idk how to explain why they call a vacation in the fall 'Summer Vacation' though
perhaps, because it is a vacation *from summer*? this seems like exactly the kind of word-play Toby would pull
Haha yes
Noooo you don't get it, those are all just plot holes, you can't possibly provide explanations for them!!!!!!
I like the idea of the Angel’s Heaven being a final “perfect” Dark World that exists within the Roaring.
Essentially that, Noelle is the Angel, and she is somehow manipulated/convinced to unleash the Roaring and her reward for doing so is an idealized version of the world. Her own personal paradise. Heaven.
Her dad is not sick. Her mom is kinder. Dess is there. Susie loves her.
Fitting with themes of escapism, this will ultimately be unhealthy escapism which we will need to banish, so as to end the roaring and bring her back to reality.
Wow, usually I'm not a fan of "Noelle is the Angel" theories but I love this one a ton and could totally see it happening!
@@tentativegazer I mean. The game pushes Noelles Angel connections REALLY hard in ways that cant really be easily explained away with ingame evidence and dont feel like a red herring in the way that Kris opening a fountain feels like one. And its VERY easy to find ways in which Noelle being the Angel would slot really well into the themes weve seen the game going for so far.
If ANY of the characters is the Angel, Noelle is pretty much the candidate that both makes the most sense and would be the most interesting.
@@DyingSunset my main problem with most of them was honestly just vibe based, I've warmed up to them now mostly. I think it was just that she doesn't seem like she should be more important than many of the other characters. But since she's one of the few wholly new hometown characters outside of the main cast, it's not that crazy. I still think there's more going on that we can't know because we only have 2/7 of the game. Also, I'm still a bit partial to the "angel is the player" theory mostly because I'm an absolute sucker for the idea that the final boss for US is against Kris and co. Also because it's mentioned every time the "player is the angel" theory is mentioned, yes in Undertale it's debatable. Personally I gravitate towards the prophecy representing Chara and by extension the player mostly because of a small detail that could mean nothing. The angel is described as descending from above, while Asriel as flowey LITERALLY ALWAYS rises up from below. Again could be nothing but I like the idea lol
I have a feeling you like Gravity falls
@@Charly_235 I had not thought of the similarities to that idea of mine and Mabel's orb in Weridmageddon, that's funny.
I'd actually been thinking of something from the last season of the horror podcast "The Magnus Archives" when I came up with this idea regarding what Angel's Heaven could be.
Wait wait - but you CAN banish a place in Deltarune. That's what closing a fountain is... and the image for "banishing the angel's heaven" depicts a fountain. So it seems like a fairly reasonable assumption that "banishing the Angel's heaven" means closing some specific fountain... or possibly all fountains. The Angel's Heaven could be something like Castle Town where Ralsei is making his little utopia for everyone to live in, for example... or it could be the whole darkworld where someone specific likes to go to escape from the lightworld... or possibly a specific darkworld fountain that the "angel" opens for a similar reason. Or something else I'm not considering at all. Anyways, main point here is that you CAN banish a place.
I think that Ralsei being the Angel works for this theory. When he learns that he must banish Castle Town, his “heaven”, he takes an angelic, Asriel-like form, and fights the party.
Want to note:
Deltarune did not have a Steam page before Chapter 2. It always said one ending with a question mark.
Aside from that I like the idea of Gaster locking us out and "taking over" the game, though I think the rest is likely wrong (but it kind of sounds like you think that too). In particular, I think the weird route being mandatory is highly unlikely because I don't think Toby would indirectly condone those kinds of actions even if it's for the greater good. Why make it so viserally disturbing rather than say, just being really hidden, obscure, or weird?
That being said, I also really agree with your final point that Toby makes mistakes and not *everything* is lore. Takes like these remind me that I'm not a lone crazy person for thinking these things.
The thing is, if Snowgrave really is 100% the evil route, then it's just genocide again, and I think that would be narratively unsatisfying.
That said, things like the Twisted Sword suggest that perhaps the true path is to ride the line between pacifist and snowgrave...
I believe the only one ending vs only one ending…? thing is is more referential to the Deltarune website itself. I’d recommend using way back to see the difference.
Also, if Tony were so incredibly opposed to the weird route, he wouldn’t have included it in the game in the first place.
@@lbsc1201 toby has a deleted tweet he says ''you got the best ending. Neither could fix the machine, no one can'' about genocide route.
someone pointed out that the weird route feels kinda like a creepypasta and, right, it doesn't make me feel like it's a necessary thing then
well maybe the snowgrave route could carry the message of "sometimes you need to do terrible things you don't like in order to save everyone else". it's kinda like the trolly problem, exept that if you do nothing everyone dies instead of just some people dying. like sure it's terrible, but it's less terrible than the alternative.
14:27 I’m only here I the video but the proposed “Gaster Ending Speech” gave me actual chills somehow? Idk something about him just recognising the players existence and then blatantly abandoning you then to kick you from the game seemed so spooky in a good way!❤
Speaking of how large theories tend to miss things out, an interesting thing I noticed in yours is the absence of anything to do with the bunker in that weird little part of Hometown. Snowdrake and MK discovered it in in Chapter 2, and interacting with it plays a slowed and distorted Entry #17 scream. The fact that other characters noticed it and how it has a very Gaster-strong connection with its sound alone may imply more things down the line relating to it. Is Gaster hiding inside the bunker? Is the bunker a gateway to another Dark World? Will we need to go hide inside it when the Roaring happens? Who knows, but that goes to show how much is going on in Deltarune in the two chapters alone is proof we are most likely way off with whatever theories we may have. New elements will most surely be added down the line in the next three chapters, stuff that will most likely destroy many gigantic theories at this current moment, or atleast force them to change. That's just my idea though. For what it's worth, your mega theory does hold a lot of good weight to it, and I wouldn't mind if atleast some of it turned out to be true. Keep up the good work and I can't wait to see more!!!
I do have a Theory about The Bunker and its role in the story that i've been polishing ever since ch2 came out, and the sweepstakes kinda reinforced my ideas or gave me what I needed to fill some of the holes it had. The thing I Love about it is that it's not focused on one single character, ignoring everything else. It instead ties together a LOT of events that took place before the game, as well as focusing on various characters, from Gaster to the Dreemurr and Holyday families.
The aim of this theory isn't to solve the game or predict what will happen. It's about mapping out what has happened in the past and how things are when we play the game, trying to solidfy what we have on current lore rather than "creating" future lore. I Haven't Seen anyone with a similar fleshed out theory in the english speaking part of the fandom, but I don't know where one may post their DR theory for it to get visibility, any idea ?
@@laguet93 The Deltarune and Deltarune Theory subreddits come to mind. You can post it as a shared Google document with headings for people to go to different parts of the timeline and read it, and then post reviews in the document itself by turning on the comments feature.
@@thefarlander2050 I see thank you for your answer. And what about timbler (or whatever it's called, i always mispell lt) ? I've seen youtubers relaying theories from that Platform, what do you think ?
@@laguet93 Yeah Tumbler can be a great place too. It got a lot of bad publicity back in the day due to a lot of NSFW being posted there, but as an outsider to the platform I think they pretty much mellowed out and are safe for a lot of people. You can totally post your timeline there as a long image or something.
My main problem with the mandatory weird route theory is that it’s hard to figure it out unless you follow Deltarune discussions and actually know about it. I didn’t have internet till I was like 13 and I would have hated having a weird ending that required some stupid obscure chain of events to solve in any game back then. It would have been quite the experience to find out about later I guess, but I really don’t like the idea of a game that basically requires community involvement or a ton of personal tinkering to get a satisfying ending from, unless it was specifically and explicitly designed around community problem solving from the beginning.
This what secrets were back then though, most gamers these days don't not have access to internet it's not like it was when we were kids. Also I highly doubt people 13 and under would actually understand and enjoy Deltarune's plot and humor. Secrets in Retro Games were mundane and awful tasks most of the time, that's what made them so rewarding. (take a shot every time I say secrets lmao)
@@MaruchanPrimethat wasn't their point, their point was that they didn't have access to internet until a certain point, meaning regardless of age, making something that requires internet provided guidance to complete mandatory feels kind of shitty, which I agree with. However I can absolutely see toby doing more things with the weird route
Maybe that's something that will be hinted at at the end of the bad ending. Kinda how Flowey was trying to get you to do Pacifist in UT, but obviously it has to be something significantly different
@@just_peace yay, I do like the idea of once you beat the game there being a weird treasure hunt where you have to go to earlier chapter and find clues and you can basically speed run it because you’ve already beaten it. That would be fun to puzzle together, just depends on how much retreading you’d have to do and how much intrigue there is when you solve a puzzle. I’m just worried about lack of direction, that’s all.
As much as I don't particularly care for mandatory Weird Route (it can be cool, I just don't see it happening at this point in time tbh), if this is the case, the game will DEFINITELY hint towards it in future chapters. Remember the tree room with the egg man in Chapter 1? Fans just kinda... FOUND that even though the game didn't say anything about there being a room in between two random spots in the world. Chapter 2, however, has a grafitti on a wall picturing a tree that says "The room between... There is a room between" when you interact with it
There's certain things I generally agree with in this, but you can't convince me that the knight established a dark fountain just for Berdly and Noelle to not remember entering it, completely unlike how Susie does remember. There is a massive difference between overly analytical nitpicking and establishing an effective continuity based on something that only has 2 instances of occurring yet is vitally relevant. The only logical conclusion for how both Noelle and Berdly stood in completely different locations from Kris and Susie is that they must have consciously went there, as well as completely brushing aside dialogue given to us right after exiting the dark fountain. Should we just assume that any conversation which is perfectly formal or mysterious is the only dialogue that is worthy of analysis? Because believing so contradicts your idea that a description of a story is dependent on the characters that live within it, ignoring what makes up a story, dialogue, for the belief of "this story is a game and so has meaningless moments," is a misuse of that belief. That belief is to explain away stuff like the map layouts, the dog cones, battle systems, and overly meta dialogue. Toby Fox never jests at plot holes in his story through in universe characters who themselves don't have greater knowledge of the world. All that being said, the knight must have, in some way or another, established the dark fountain after Noelle and Berdly were already there. Regardless of ramifications of anyone's interpretations of the knight or who they are, the events must have played out in that order. If it did not, and the reason those two were at the table is because of movements throughout the dark world, then why does Noelle not appear near Kris when the weird route takes place?
Yeah. Like if Kris has created fountain, then they did it when we have no control of them. Then how NO ONE was using that room between the night and noelle and berdly falling in there, including librarby janitors
This comment originally attempted to provide arguments against Kris being the Knight. I have since done some thinking, and have decided that none of the points I brought up have any merit.
I'm still keeping this comment because of all the replies, and maybe someone will want to go back to them.
although I don't believe in Kris Knight myself, I don't 100% dismiss it because Toby clearly wants us to think they're the Knight and the narrative will likely engage with that idea on some level even if they're ultimately a red herring, plus we can always be wrong due to Toby flubbing details for the sake of the story. Also depending on one's definition of "Knight" you can at least say they're "a" Knight.
However, to add to the pile of arguments against Kris Knight:
- the beginning of Chapter 2 firmly establishes that Berdly can put people to sleep with his pontificating, Berdly sets an alarm in the Library as if he knew he'd fall asleep, and Noelle reiterates in the weird route ending that Berdly put her and himself to sleep (though that may solely be due to her attempt to deny what happened was real), so I think there is significance to Berdly and Noelle being asleep. The repeated allusions to Berdly putting people to sleep would explain why they're both still asleep when the fountain is sealed but Susie wasn't and it would explain how someone can open a fountain without them noticing (like how Susie doesn't wake up in the Ch 2 ending). Plus even Susie was unsure if the Ch 1 dark world was real despite not sleeping, so I don't think it was done for that reason.
- Queen can describe the Knight's weapon and actions in detail, depict them, and is implied to have video-taped the act (not just the smoky aftermath), and yet she explicitly classifies Kris as a potential "new" Knight rather than the one that departed. The only argument I've seen against this is to assume that (apropos of nothing) Kris wore a disguise when opening the fountain despite not doing that in the Ch 2 ending or that being foreshadowed or hinted at at all. I honestly find that counter-argument to be on the level of saying Rouxls' actions affected when he turned to stone--there's nothing that says that wasn't the case but in both cases it feels like it's an idea regarding an offscreen event that only exists to make a theory work
- the flavor text for the library's equipment closet mentioning a large person easily fitting inside feels very weird and conspicuous and doesn't seem to be there for any apparent reason other than potentially explaining where the Knight may have hidden. Berdly and Kris aren't large people (and are actually among the smallest in Hometown by pixel size) so it's unlikely an allusion to stashing Berdly's body there. Granted, trying to construct a reason for why the Knight was there is a whole other can of worms and carries its own unsupported assumptions but I still can't shake that the line feels weird because it doesn't seem to serve any joke, thematic, descriptive, flavor, or story-related function otherwise unless something much later pays it off
I was really weirded out by how this video kept bringing only one evidence against the "Kris is the Knight" theory and it was the smallest/weakest of the bunch. So thank you for bringing all of those points.
@@vgfmak Berdly's alarm was set because he had a shift with Ms boom (he says it himself after the alarm goes off after the foundation is sealed)
So I wouldn't use the alarm as evidence because berdly himself already says the reason why it was set
I don't really have a counter point for this, but in this theory, the Knight doesn't seem to be too relevant. I'm not arguing that Kris isn't the Knight, but rather that their identity has no importance in the grand scheme of things. Whether they are Kris, Alvin, Paps, or some secret 4th option, none of it matters when faced with "Gaster is behind everything". Not an attack, just stating a point here.
@@vgfmak * While I also disagree with Knight-Kris, I'd just like to say that actually Queen video-taping the fountain creation and all of her projections and allusions to the knight mean nothing, as when interacting with the fountain creation video it says something like "There's too much smoke to see anything"
I'm honestly curious what theories will be like when we have the next chapters
We will have enough material to at least predict certain things and see if there are patterns or not.
Yeah, I'm looking forward to which current theories will be debunked and which will continue to be plausible, kind of like falsifying a scientific hypothesis by conducting experiments.
It's kind of ridiculous how people are connecting two dots (the two chapters we currently have) with a line to extrapolate a "pattern" into future chapters. Like chess theory, with there being King and then Queen as the first two regular bosses. Or, my favourite example showcasing this absurdity, is the theory that Ralsei will take off one piece of clothing and subsequently change his fur color every chapter. We simply don't have enough data to really find meaningful patterns in. But once chapters 3 to 5 drop, things will become a lot more interesting.
@@TheOnlyGeggles I would say that chess theory has a little more evidence with the Knight and the pawn promotion thinglike Queen says she wants to create a new knight (noelle) IMO
@@TheOnlyGeggles Chess theory does have a lot of potential though. The setting of the next dark world (TV with a Law & Crime theme, as explained in another video) does allow for there to be one (or two) Rook type characters, the word itself meaning "swindler". And we then have a church, which is one of the main Gerson family locations like the classroom and the library, which could be where the Bishops are located, and finally the Knight piece, which we know is the main antagonist.
Honestly i feel like most of the chapter 2 theories will be debunked considering toby really subverts our expectations
Remember at the end of chapter 1 we thought chara was poessing kris and there would be a genocide run?
That got utterly debunked in chapter 2 (despite being popular i believe) and toby even makes a nod at it in the beginning with a fake out. Even though we weren't entirely wrong, there was a genocide-ish route in chapter 2 it wasn't the way we expect (with kris killing everyone blah blah blah sans deltarune fight blau blah blah chara coming back and doing the same story all over again) i do think some theories will hold weight especially the ones regarding mike as the next villain, or gaster corrupting spamton and jevil.
But i think majority of them will be tossed out the window
@@yaban360 yeah, it's impossible for most theories to be completely correct but I would like to mention that the fandom pee chapter 2 did not understand much of what deltarune was about (I would even argue if they fully understood Undertale considering there were a lot of misinterpretations of the game) and chapter 1 did a bad job showing that it was another world with different rules and different story
The weird route could never be mandatory because the essence of the route itself is deviating from the preset path and go and do things you're not supposed to, that's what makes that route great too! :P
Yeah and the route is super obscure
Yeah, I don't see Toby pulling something like that, it would honestly be just... Dumb.
That doesn't go against what he's saying though. The idea behind this story proposal is that you are breaking the events of the game in order to get back at Gaster. You're breaking the story so that you can have a desperate shot at getting a good ending/get Closure for the characters.
In a game where our choices supposedly don't matter, making the weird route mandatory genuinely makes the most sense out of anything. It lets Toby tell the story of the power of a gamer all over again. That's what UT was really about. Determination was a way to quantify the power a gamer has over their games. And if we want something to happen hard enough, it eventually will. If something dissatisfies us in a game, often we will go out of our way to change it. Sometimes, even deliberately breaking the game to avoid an upsetting cutscene or going through a game without killing anyone in a game when killing is encouraged. The weird route is Toby legitimizing the "glitchhunters" phenomenon. The real ending of the game is going to be unsatisfactory, it will leave us desperate to find another way. And through our gamer Determination, we will find the weird route to sequence break the game and get a different ending. The plotline of Noelle being a glitchhunter in the Spamton ARG is Toby hinting at this.
Yeah, it's entirely within the bounds of theme to struggle against GASTER'S game (in which your choices don't matter), until you manage to leave it for good and get to play the real game. That outer game, with the nothing to explore and the december princess to save, could pretty easily be the only game that actually "ends".
You know, I had a theory WAY back when only Chapter 1 was a thing, that pretty much went like this:
The "Game Over"/"World covered in Darkness" scene would be the ending you get by just, playing the game, with a small cutscene afterwards showing a tiny bit of the cast and how they're handling the end of the world. If you played and beat all THREE save files however, the different survivours would unite and stand against whatever force was left that was causing the end of the world, presumably the Knight. It seems kind of silly now, but I still think it's plausible, especially when looking at it from your perspective with the Weird Route
furthermore you could also be required to do all three routes(normal, snowgrave, and thorn ring(aka aborted snowgrave)) to get the one TRUE ending
@@gameingtothemax6266 this could be possible, considering the replayability of this game will be insane.
You being ALL "three heroes" (and needing to come together at the end to get the true ending) would be pretty clever...not sure how likely it is (unless it perhaps shunts you onto Susie in file 2 and Ralsei in file 3 because of who those heroes are intended to be) but I love your theory, and don't think it's particularly LESS likely than it ever was.
@@anomaliecosmos No, the monster refers to you on the snowgrave route, and the prince from the dark might refer to an aborted weird route.
I feel like you're being too dismissive of certain evidence just because hypothetically it could be a mistake
Like, take the Kris is Knight theory for example. That theory has mountains of evidence against it:
-Kris would have no way of knowing how to make a fountain before Queen tells them
-The King admires The Knight despite clearly hating all Lightners
-As you said, the timings with Noelle and Berdly already studying don't line up
-The King is implied to have met the Knight, despite not recognizing Kris
-Queen says that the Knight has "taken its leave" even though Kris is standing right there
You can't just look at all of that and go, "Well it's possible that might all just be an oversight so I'm just gonna completely ignore all off that evidence". Yes, this is just a demo. Yes, there are going to be plot-holes at some point which aren't a part of some great master plan. But that doesn't mean you can just completely ignore evidence because theoretically it might have just been a mistake. What's even the purpose of theory crafting at that point? If whenever someone points something out that disproves a theory you can just ignore it saying it was an oversight, then why even try to make theories?
Disregarding evidence because it might be an error just completely shuts down all discussion. Some things will be errors, but just being able to brush off anything that doesn't fit your theory because it COULD be an error is pointless and ruins the entire point of making theories
So I am "Kris aren't the roaring knight" believer but I want to make a questions
-I always see the first point as evidence but they never tell me where it says that kris couldn't know how open a fountain before queen thing
Like Is there a dialog that says that kris didn't know how to open a fountain before queen tell them?
the knight somehow knows how to open the fountain and that shows that the queen is not the only source about that
-The king doesn't seem to know about roaring either (his dialogues imply it) while the ROARING knight does, so I think it's safe to say that the king doesn't know that much and shouldn't be completely trusted and like , you can apply that with the most candidates of who could be the ROARING knight
- I have also seen people said that Kris probably disguised themself since well it was seen that it was not very difficult to deceive the queen like when Noelle put a box on her head and that's it, I don't see it as evidence but I want mention that
My biggest gripe with the theory of kris being the knight is that if that was the case, i do not think chapter 2 would have ended the way it did. I dont think toby fox would be setting up a giant mistery only to throw a sledgehammer at it before anyone had the chance to solve it.
@@blackbloom8552 yeah
That's my biggest problem with Kris being the ROARING knight
Why would you make such a big mystery to throw it away five minutes later?
@@gonerdenji
Indeed, I don't think the first point really debunks Kris being the one to open the first two fountains. If anything, I would use that point to counter all the Kris!Knight fans who say "Kris made the chapter 3 fountain, obviously Kris is the Knight!".
About King, he doesn't know everything but I also think people underestimate how much he knows, there's a lot of interesting dialogue and events with King in chapter one alone. He's also probably the most likely person to have actually met the Knight of everyone we have seen so far. There's nothing strange about Queen not recognizing the Knight for example, from what she says it sounds like Queen barely even saw when the Knight created the fountain before leaving.
Some other points I could add against the Kris!Knight theory:
- Toby's comments on that unused intro song, made it sound like none of the main characters are the Knight.
- Spamton, who seems to know some important things about the Knight, was about the tell Kris about it before being "silenced". This scene seems really strange if Kris is actually the Knight
- Kris actually got frightened when seeing the first dark world in chapter one, it wasn't an action we (the player) could influence. Why would they be scared if they both knew of and created dark worlds before?
@Geo_Shark11 i get the idea, but I don`t think that work. Dramatic irony is something like columbo showing you the entire murder at the start of the episode. Kris being the knight is obvious, but not in a clear and undisputable way. Its just the game putting forth a lot of circumstantial evidences that lack context. If you think back, chapter 1 also ended on a red herring which significance changed once learning what actually happened so there reasons to question our assumptions about why kris would open a fountain.
I always expected Gaster to only fit the Easter-egg mysterious character that everyone speculates about but nothing gets confirmed. Gaster getting a bigger role for Deltarune would do wonders for his character and would finally put to rest any theories (Okay Toby might leave a few still up in the air because he is Toby, he loves adding mystery to his game even if the game is finished)
First time hearing about the Pirate Hat theory/explanation- I like it. Not to mention, if Rouxls is aware of this factor, and managed to sucessfully postpone his own statue-ifying for some time, that would imply Rouxls has a secret sense of competence to pair with his supposed "True Power", which is a theory I would LOVE to be true. And lets not mention what that might imply for why Ralsei has never turned into a statue on us...
As for the whole "Rouxls is Stone" thing happening "Earlier" in the Weird Route, I always thought it was because the Weird Route simply took more time than the normal route to reach the mansion. Rouxls became a statue at the same time, but we arrive at the mansion *after* it occurs instead of before in the Weird route. In total, the amount of time spent icing enemies in the city and the amount of time spent trudging through a sewer to reach the mansion, we were probably significantly slowed down. Combined with the evidence that we meet back up with Susie and Ralsei right at the front door of the mansion instead of in the carnival area, that Spamton had time to invade the mansion between Berdly being frozen and us arriving, and that Queen apparently had the time to search for "Bird Boy" after realizing Noelle was in no condition to make a fountain, implies that we were significantly delayed in our arrival.
The only counter I can see to this is that we return to the light world at the same time as in the normal route, but still- time is relative in a video game, from the perspective of the player. You can beat the game in an hour or thirty hours, and it'll still be before sunset when the fountain is sealed.
ok so like you said you were gonna debunk all the theories you described, then proceeded to ramble about "grrrr community's look too much into the smallest things that might mean nothing" i like the theories you talked about it was pretty interesting but a little oversight.
I'm not even 1/10 through the video yet, but I appreciate the respect you've given to all the Gaster bread crumbs thus far. Feels like most of the community ignores everything about Gaster these days, yet here you are bringing up Toby Fox's very poetic first tweet from ten years ago. You clearly care very much about these universes/their fine details, and you have a deep respect for the good doctor who should very much remain in current discussion. You have earned my attention.
What?? Everyone still talks about Gaster all the time!
@@cawareyoudoin7379 It's not as widespread as the Undertale days and it's not as serious as it should be. Most forums I've seen lean more towards shipping/memes rather than meta theories (they tend to believe the prophecy at face value and think anything beyond that is crazy). There's fewer people who know who Gaster is (or who take him seriously) and aren't willing to dig far enough to find every piece of lore related to him, and they view those who are trying to prove his influence in the game as people who are grasping at straws. "Quit saying everything is Gaster!" is the end of conversations for most people, when ironicly, the game they claim to be fans of has everything to do with Gaster. It's frustrating.
For fuck's sake, things like Jevil and "garbage noise" are still debated, and people still use the "it's just an arpeggio" argument every time someone tries to point out his theme snuck into a track.
@@kramkrum3672 You are in a very different part of fandom from me then, haha. Don't get mad at people enjoying media in a different way than you, you seem to be taking this a bit too seriously. Relax. Not everyone has to predict everything in the story before it actually happens.
Something Gaster is definitely up. He wants us to play the game, he likely had contact with some Darkners, and honestly, at this point it's impossible to ascertain what his end goal is, or whether his intentions are good or not. I like to assume ultimately good, but that's just my Undertale-filled heart talking, and the fact that Toby Fox doesn't really write purely evil characters. The King is maybe the closest, and even he has gotten more nuanced. But right now, it's literally impossible to tell, so I just focus on what we have now, the characters, the relationships- because hey, this is what the story is actually about. This is why most people like UT/DR- the characters. I can't wait to find out more about Gaster's, whenever that happens.
@@kramkrum3672 about the "it's just an apreggio" thing, a lot of times it is used people seem to be right, at least in my opinion.
I mean, look, it could makes sense when it's in, idk, ANOTHER HIM or maybe flashback, but dude, I've seen people saying that they hear Gaster's theme in Noisemaster's theme! It doesn't even make any sense!! Or someone said that inverted beginning of Bonetrousle sound slike it, but, oh come on that one doesn't sound it Gaster's theme excluding it being an apreggio
As much as I love gaster stuff and think he's 100% important, I see zero way hes the lynchpin of Deltarune. Too much of the game was formulated before he even existed to have him be the most important player.
This is a very fun and well-made video. It really got me thinking about the story, especially Noelle's path (like bringing her dad to a dark world to heal him). Thanks for making it!
I gotta say, this theory was very, very interesting. I really didn't think it possible to surpass the "Asriel is dead" theory in terms of crazy-yet-worryingly-believable, but this one is my new favourite (looking forward to the Spooky vs. Jaru cage match). Perhaps there's a way to incorporate both theories into the ultimate Deltarune brainrot theory? 🤔
At first I was confused why you would present a Jaru-esque theory as if you had literally "solved" Deltarune, given your otherwise grounded (if not to say _based_ ) stance towards UT/DR theorizing. I was thinking who is this SpookyDood-impostor? The real SpookyDood would reject the premise that Deltarune is something to be "solved" in the first place, but it all makes sense with the explanation at the end. A very well made video, didn't regret a minute of watching it all.
The upshot is that the point of these theories is not to accurately predict the rest of the story, but rather to take the source material of UT/DR as a sort of "creative writing prompt", to come up with a "theory" (i.e. fanfic) that fits the mentioned "crazy-yet-somehow-believable" criterion, which makes them so entertaining. Taking them too seriously, however, can lead to toxic behaviour in the fandom, similarly to shipping dramas. I hope this video gets 1000 times as many views as it has right now, because this is a message that many people in the fandom need to hear.
while we're at it, can we make Ralsei not just undead Asriel, but also the third entity, and also is a girl for the ultimate Ralsei crack theory? Maybe "Toriel is a homophobe" can be gloo?
Yea, sometimes people forget that theories are meant to be fun and something to entertain ourselves with while waiting for the final game to release.
really interesting theory and thought it was pretty believable up until “snowgrave/the weird route should be mandatory”
i feel like there could be another way to defeat gaster with collecting the shadow crystals, especially when they are made of darkness & you get them from defeating the secret bosses (which you have to go out of your way to fight)
47:50
i say the thing that debunks it mostly for me , is what happened in card kingdom, the knight showed themselves and interacted and gain the loyalty of the king and somewhat interacted with seam some amount as well, the knight is reason why king is acting the prophecy, after all lancer also knows the prophecy as well and some parts like a tear headed kid standing in the heroes way.
king has meet the knight , he has talked to the knight and knows what they look like as well, so why would king not see kris as the knight if kris is the knight? , kris has also has many chances to talk with the king as well.
when pointing this out they will say that kris due to not having our soul in their body changes their appearance and voice as well, but this makes no sense because ralsei HAS TALKED TO KRIS WITHOUT THE SOUL in their body , dont you think ralsei would notice the massive change and connect the dots , and if you say ralsei is somehow working with the knight that also makes no sense , because why would they need to do that since 2/3 of the heroes are already on the knights side, why go against what the knight is doing in the first place?
it would be easy to convince the susie the knight is in the right.
The fandom do very XD things
Like you can say Kris dressed up with a costume therefore the king and queen did not recognize them instead of make that theory
(I'm against of that explication but makes more sense than this haha)
[edit: well, that’s what I get for just watching summaries and theory videos and not a full playthrough. I was wrong about the following]
Wait, when does Ralsei talk to Kris with Kris not having the soul?
Do you just mean when the player’s view is elsewhere?
I don’t know that it follows that the soul also leaves Kris’s body when that happens. It does seem to be a physical object after all?
@@drdca8263
it followed susie...
@@chongwillson972 sorry, I didn’t know that it showed that. My bad!
Have edited my prior comment now
It's like watching someone carefully craft a chandelier out of ice, turn to the audience and decry artworks that melt, then proceed to slam it into the ground. (I didn't even realize it was an hour long until I checked the time at the end. When you go into semi-story theory crafting mode, you're extra compelling.)
Good analogy
If we go into this metaphor deeper, he also says "making chandeliers out of ice is stupid", not taking into consideration that some people just do it for fun.
@@cawareyoudoin7379 yes
I disagree with your final point. While it is true not everything has to fit together, we should expect that everything makes sense and that there are no plot holes. The difference between Deltarune and things like FNAF, Star Wars, etc. is that we have an actually good writer. Undertale, as far as I know, doesn't have glaring problems, specially when you can explain almost everything with the idea that the entire world of Undertale is diegetic. Sure, there are things that are very convenient (e.g. you need a boss monster soul to exit, which just happen to be a final boss), but everything is logically coherent.
Asgore and Toriel both are boss monsters actually and they are either the last ones or they are only ones that stood on path of our protagonist, so our protagonist could absorb Toriel's soul to leave instead, it's not really an plot hole it could be explained that the human we are controling cannot remember anything from previous timeline hence why they don't do it or more probable reason they weren't quick enough to absorb before Toriel's soul broke into pieces.
Broke: Kris isn't the Knight because Noelle and Berdly were already studying.
Woke: Kris isn't the Knight because the very first character we see create a fountain on-screen being the mystery character who's whole schtick is creating fountains would be anti-twist and anti-twists are narratively unsatisfying.
This video was based and Gaster-pilled. (Thanks for watching!)
😮
This was a very good video! I hope others watch it ❤
Both the weird route theory were we use the weird route team to take out gaster and the rules card theory makes alot of sense since i was also wondering why did rules card not turn into stone before the battle but after we beat his lower half turns to stone
We know WAAAAYYYY too little about Dess to say much about their point in the story, so I think the last theory is jumping the gun by a MILE.
However, I *really do* think that the whole "gaster wants to use us to make the perfect world(?) by tricking us, the player, into severing the boundaries between light and dark because of the prophecy" thing is actually a freaking amazing piece of subversive storytelling, I feel like something's missing. Some important thing gaster would do after our connection is severed. What would the false angel do with the world in his palm? When the devil has no use for their demon, and [ends the deal], what happens next?
The W.D. Gaster grind set.
This theory caught my interest because its thumbnail makes it seem strikingly similar to what I think Deltarune's plot is going to be about.
This whole thing about Gaster being the Devil and manipulating the player into doing his bidding and him actively wanting the roaring seems so strong yet for some reason pretty much everyone I've met in the fandom always seems to think that we don't have enough info about Gaster to conclude anything like it and just assume that he's trying to help the player.
I especially like the reference to the addage "the greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he doesn't exist." That's one hell of a connection I never thought of.
Something major that supports this that you didn't bring up is the fact that Spamton's entire backstory basically hinges on him being manipulated by Gaster. Gaster turned him into a Puppet. Gaster used him to do something, and then left his life in shambles. By all means this should confirm that Gaster has a pension for manipulation and the ruining of lives. And given the massive amount of parallelism between Spamton and Kris, it only makes sense to conclude that We/Kris are the victim of the same practice.
But personally, the way I see this all coming together from a narrative perspective into a real narratively sound ending is simply that there isn't only one ending. It simply isn't true and was meant to lead us astray. Why?
I think the reason Toby said there's only going to be one ending and then contradicted himself by putting it in question is cause the theme of the game is supposed to be that your choices matter, _even when the world tells you otherwise._
"Your choices don't matter" is framed very similarly to "It's kill or be killed," A dark depressing message told to us by an antagonistic force that _we are meant to challenge._ "Your choices don't matter" is SUPPOSED to feel oppressive, as Toby once mentioned, because the true message of the story is just the opposite. "You hold the power to change fate. Your choices DO matter."
That's the reason Gaster is this oppressive manipulative force that is leading the player and Kris down a road of destruction without us even realizing it. The good ending is based on us deviating from the path Gaster is trying to spoonfeed us for his own benefit. Making our own choices and forging our own future in hopes of saving Kris and their world from his twisted prophecy. That's probably what the Shadow Crystal plotline is going to lead to.
And the theme of the Snowgrave route is going to be showing us what happens when he abuse the power of choice. When we use the power we've been given to hurt people, doing things _cause we can_ with no regard for the horrific affects it has on people's lives, the result is that *We become just like Gaster.*
It's all extremely similar to Undertale, when you think about it. And that's the point.
Deltarune is an anagram of Undertale.
Undertale is an "Anagram" of Deltarune's themes.
And all this ties in really strongly with the evidence heavily suggesting that the real conflict being depicted in the epilogue cutscenes is not Kris and the Player vs each-other, but both of us vs a mysterious force possessing Kris's soulless body, aka The Knight, aka Gaster. Since YT hates links, search up "Deltarune The truth of a terrifying voice" for my explanation of the matter.
One major logical problem I'd like to point out in this video is that it doesn't make much sense for Dess to be the McGuffin that allows the player to defeat Gaster cause according to this Dess has been hanging out in the same place as Gaster ever since she disappeared, so for her to be the force that can defeat Gaster makes no sense because if she could she would've done it already. Assuming she gives even a singular shit about her friends and family she'd have plenty of incentive to stop Gaster before his plan can even begin.
About the last part, personally I don't think it's such a bad idea to try and theorize about the future of Deltarune and the full puzzle just cause we don't have all the puzzle pieces. In fact, I'd say that to adhere to such a notion would ruin an absolutely massive portion of what the fandom has built around Deltarune and the appeal that that content was born from.
I mean, this logic effectively states that all analysis or theorizing at all is just completely pointless and stupid to do until Deltarune's final chapter is released, which is just awful.
I say that there is value to making theories about a half completed game because as long as a theory is backed by (real) evidence, makes logical sense, and isn't strongly contradicted by the game, (Which is what theories should inherently strive to be,) it is going to have at least _a decent chance_ of being correct, regardless of how complete the game is or not.
(Certainly at least in the grand scale of a million fans making a million different theories. Infinite Typewriter theorem and all that.)
I don't think this's an unreasonable stance to take because it's simply better to work with what we have then what we haven't.
I mean, take for example, the voice behind the Garbage Noise in Spamton's telephone. It's not confirmed to be Gaster by any stretch, but that doesn't mean that it's not significantly better to go with Gaster thanks to the evidence supporting it, than to make a theory outright saying it's an unknown entity we know nothing about.
No matter how accurate it may turn out to be in the future, _that's still bad theory-crafting,_ as it doesn't lead anywhere interesting or useful. It only leads back into a void of pure uncertainty, which _the entire point of theory-crafting_ is to chip away at.
And this is even regarding the whole "this lines up TOO well with what we have, for it to be true it would require what we currently know to not change at all until the end," thing. I don't think that really applies as a counterargument for two major reasons.
1: A lot of this stuff is vague or hidden.
2: Twists and changes to what we know can easily be foreshadowed via contradicting information.
I said before that the idea of Gaster being the villain was extremely strong but that most of the fandom treats it like a conspiricy theory, that's because both of these apply to it.
The oldest record of the prophecy being written by Gaster, Gaster having associations with Hell and the Devil, Gaster actually being a manipulative asshole and thus his claim to want to "create a bright future with" the player being untrustworthy,
If you were just casually playing the game with no deeper analysis, there's no way to come to this conclusion. . . *Yet.*
The entire point of hiding implications in secrets and subtext is to give fans the opportunity to put in the work and be rewarded with some level of vision of what's coming in the future. Being able to figure out the logical culimnation of a story with enough analysis is called _good writing._
And even if some theories are wrong, it's not a inherently bad thing to get those ideas out there.
I for one am not claiming to know how Deltarune is factually going to turn out. Even if I'm pretty confident in the general theory layed out above, it's just that; General.
It's only when a theory becomes so ubiquitous as to choke out discussion of alternatives where it can be considered a problem. Especially when the theories themselves are just bad and illogical.
Key examples being this fandom's insistance that Kris can't be the Knight despite the game basically outright telling you they are, and the fandom's outright obsession with the Kris vs Player theory despite quite literally everything about Soulless Kris potraying them as something heinous and unnatural.
TLDR: Gaster = Villian is Great, I think there are 3 endings, and I don't think analysis of a half-completed story is stupid.
Exactly, this fandom ignores the devil motif because either we know nothing about Gaster, or they HC that gaster is just the goofy little principle and thus it's canon, so annoying
@@Breached18 Ugh, I know, right? It's so annoying how people act like Gaster being a goofy dude is somehow the logical default despite every piece of characterization we had for him in Undertale being deliberately crafted to creep people out.
@@StarLightShadows This fandom wants another Undertale, a game where you could get that happy ending, and the more serious and "edgy" stuff was locked behind the "bad" route. But if this theory is true, which I pray it is, proves that deltarune is it's own thing, I hope the snowgrave route is partially mandatory for a good ending, one where we have to balance both good and evil, maybe Gaster and Dess would show us two bad endings if we do one side more, Dess' ending being the roaring, since maybe without Gaster the titans took over, and for Gaster it's explained in the video.
Sorry for rambling, just tired of this fandom wanting wholesome, cute shit and forcing it everywhere
@@Breached18 There are ways to differentiate Deltarune from Undertale without forcing them to take a route that requires them to do horrible things and actively makes them feel bad about it to get the best ending. And the game does everything in its power to treat "Your choices don't matter" the same as "It's kill or be killed," so the game forcing you to do Snowgrave like this would completely break the message of the game. And Undertale was full of serious and tragic stuff. The Genocide route was ruining the game by turning into a pointless gore-fest.
And it's not forcing anything anywhere to prefer the _Basic route of the game that doesn't require you to jump through a series of convoluted hoops to find,_ that just happens to not involve horrifically manipulating people into mass murder.
@@StarLightShadows I agree with so much of what you said about the themes, but I don't think it's Gaster at the center of it. From my perspective, Gaster is a scientist and an the way in which the player is allowed to interact with Deltarune, and he will/already does function similar to how Chara did in Undertale. He controls the saving and loading system, since it seems determination isn't related to that in the world of Deltarune and he is the one to contact the player in the first place, similar to how Chara acted as a player surrogate/window into the world and literally resided IN THE UI as the narrator. I think Gaster is EXTREMELY important but honestly I don't think he will make a major appearance in the normal route. The ending of Deltarune came to toby in a dream way before Undertale, Gaster wasn't a thing until Undertale, and may have even been formulated specifically to connect Undertale and Deltarune. I also feel like all these Gaster centric theories are way too high concept to actually be applicable to a main route. I feel like people are forgetting that 1. Not everyone knows who gaster is and 2. Deltarune is primarily a character driven game and it's own thing, I don't see how a high concept twist ending revolving around a hidden character from Undertale could serve as a satisfying conclusion to a game like that. I really do think he will be VERY important to the deeper lore, but I see no way he's the main focus especially when the broad strokes for the plot existed way before he did.
Finished the video, loved it. You’re up there with my favorite Deltarune content creators
I wholeheartedly agree with you when you say that not everything Toby says is a sign. So many people take everything he says or does as something with a deeper meaning or some form of foreshadowing (I've seen people trying to connect Yume Nikki to Deltarune because of the interview). Not everything is lore but people tend to forget this in regards to him, which I can somewhat understand because of the instances in the past where it has somewhat worked but overall I think taking everything Toby says literally is extremely prevalent in the fandom.
That being said I really like the ideas you have and I can't wait til Chapters 3, 4, and 5 come out so we get more material to theorize on i feel like the way they've been built up something major is coming.
This video scratched an itch. Thank you for making the wait for Deltarune a little more bearable for the time being.
I feel like I should point out that this should only apply to people who do these kinds of theories to genuinely predict or "solve" DeltaRune (like JaruJaru). If you do these kinds of speculative prediction theories for fun, or for a fanfic like R.V. Pine's, then you shouldn't feel bad about being speculative and imaginative.
Also, there isn't much harm in picking and choosing what details you want to chalk up to not being literal (e.g. Berdly and Noelle already being at the table with their books out in the Computer Lab). All DR theories are inherently speculation and you can't change that. Just don't push your theories as being "better" than others or as being "I have SOLVED DeltaRune!!!!"
47:37 Eeeeeeeh gotta disagree, I know this isn't EVEN part of the video so much as it is an example and I'm just proving your point that UT/DR fans are just way too down the brain rot hole but... as far as theories go Kris Knight is one of the silly ones. I can believe that they made the Chapter 1 fountain, but for them to make the Chapter 2 fountain some seriously stupid stuff has got to happen;
As for when: it was either before our possession or during the night of Chapter 1, the first one seems unlikely as there is a dog working the computer lab before the end of Chapter 1, rather than it being all darkness, so the only option is the second one and for that to happen Kris must:
Get from their house to Library (or however it is actually called), break into the library (because unless it is open 24/7 one would hope that the building is closed during the night), break into the computer lab (whose only entrance is the doors), create the dark world, tell queen they are the roaring knight, leave, go back home from the library, and, between leaving and returning home, eaten the entire pie.
The plot holes this creates are: 1. NO ONE; a)Saw Kris walking to and from the library(considering it was night, not that weird, but still),b)Noticed that there was a break-in, c)Noticed anything weird with the computer lab or had to use it or opened the door to it for whatever reason, 2. Noelle and Beirdly willingly entered the dark world (if it was like with Susie and Kris with the closet it could be possible and even then they could still believe it was a dream), and 3. Queen did not recognize Kris (or at least acted like they didn't). Kris getting to the library without collapsing? Who knows, maybe they can, we haven't seen the limit of what they can do without the soul. Having enough time? It wouldn't take that long even with the slow movement, a couple of hours sure, but that would explain why they were sleep deprived during class. The positioning of Noelle and Berdly? If Toby is consistent in where he puts the characters according to where they were when entering the dark world (yes this applies to the Chapter 1 fountain as well, they entered the card kingdom from the closet door attached, and by the looks of it they probably woke up there although who knows), if he is then that is a plot hole unless explained, if he isn't then that would be xylophone inconsistency silly.
Still though, this plan would require that anyone that goes to the library doesn't open the door to the computer lab, that the library was either unlocked or no one noticed the break-in, that Noelle of all people doesn't dip from a place that is emanating darkness, OR that Queen doesn't recognize Kris or doesn't "nudge nudge wink wink" to Kris of their little secret. In conclusion; Seems very unlikely as all the pieces have to work just fine for it to work.
And to finish off this comment, Im legit sorry, this sh*t is undeserved, I posted a comment early saying how great this video is and it lasted 4 lines and here I am with a freaking bible just for something that doesn't even take 2 minutes out of an almost hour-long video but hearing you sing its praises seems to really get my goat. If it's worth any consolation, my main argument isn't so much "Noelle and Berdly were already studying" as it is "How did Kris break into a public building and not even the chief of police noticed?", either way, thanks for reading, sorry, bye.
None of those are plot holes, they are you both over analyzing and wrongly analyzing things.
1. It's night, Kris ALSO snuck around their own house and slashed Toriel's tires without being noticed too. It's pretty clear Kris is trying to do this shit sneakily so they're going out of their way to avoid being noticed.
Also WHY WOULD ANYONE BE AT THE LIBRARY PAST MIDNIGHT. No one in town is shown to be a night owl besides Kris, or actively going around doing things at night anyway.
We don't even know if the library is locked at night given how small the community is, nothing in game states it's locked. Not to mention Kris could have easily gotten access via Berdly. None of this is focused on cause it's NOT important or relevant to the plot, this isn't a heist movie.
2.You literally debunked yourself here. They probably just thought the lights were off JUST like Susie did in chapter 1. Then fell in while looking for a way to turn them on, or as they were starting to study. Even so, this is focused on the point the video already calls a bad point. The nature of them entering is literally just so they can think it was a dream. Nitpicking it is ridiculous.
3. Toby literally isn't consistent where he puts characters in regards to the fountain? They entered a storage closet and ended up in a spare room, cause they MOVED while in the dark world, just as Berdly and Noelle did. We don't even see where they were when first waking up cause it was dark and they had a huge tussle during chapter 1 before the lights were turned on. Exact character positions isn't something that has any evidence of being focused on or relevant too.
4. "3" was like 3 different points so lets split this up properly. A Knight wears armor, that's why the Queen doesnt recognize Kris, if Kris is planning this stuff they're obviously wearing a disguise, further evidence of them being obscured is that NO one mentions details of how the Knight actually looks.
5.We don't know how long Kris can function after ditching the soul, there is LITERALLY nothing but Kris's funky zombie walk and assumptions for this. It doesn't matter how long it takes, and clearly kris can move at decent speeds given they went around the house and slashed Toriel's tires in decent time, Toby isn't freakin timing Kris's movements exactly.
There was also a point that the Computer lab isn't really used much mentioned in the chapter.
@@JammyJam5588 you know what, fair. But I still dont buy that a place so important as a library isnt locked or at least the computer lab isnt locked, and while Kris getting some kind of access from Berdly could be a posibility I find it hard to belive that he has accesses to the keys. And if he did, that he would hand them over to Kris for no aparent reason.
But hey, thanks for reading anyways and pointing out what I had wrong.
@@lennyfacebutnotreally3198 Well thank you for being understanding as well.
I can only say that I feel if the Library being locked was supposed to be something to even be thought about, it'd be mentioned in some fashion.
Not to mention if some weirdo went into the computer lab mid day, wouldn't another npc have noted it as well going by some of this logic?
Maybe wondering where they went, or noting someone leaving in a hurry vaguely.
Following up on this theory, if Dess is in the depths, could the "UNUSED" lines in each chapter be what she is saying?
The lines mention someone being alone;
They mention the place they're in being dark;
No one can hear them;
Mentions hearing something like scratching (which could be the scratching noises in ANOTHER HIM that plays in the depths).
34:36 Was NOT convinced until you brought up this line. The way this line is written... If Spamton knows what you're doing, who Gaster is, what the Depths are, possibly even Gaster's plan. The way this line is written is something that you'll understand AFTER completing the game's main route.
Also, this reminded me that Undertale has this sort of thing to, and no one talks about it.
The Neutral Ending to Undertale, is Undertale's main ending, Pacifist may be canon, but Neutral is the main ending. It's Flowey who comes up to you and says that there's more that you can do, stuff that you can do that don't have anything to do with sparing or killing, actions that you can perform to tweak things to put all of the puzzle pieces in place for a "better ending".
I was scared of the Weird Route being mandatory, but after the explanation of different save files, how they're diagetic, and how you can have a weird route save and a main route save but...
I'm not done with the video yet, but there's this line that never left my head as soon as you mention Gaster pushing you out of the game (which I have to say, is fucking perfect. Anytime you type Gaster into name selects he boots you out of the game, it's absolutely perfect for him to do this)
But, what Gaster says in the pre "Before The Story" menu select, where it's all green and command terminal like when you copy your single save to all 3 files is "PREPERATIONS HAVE BEEN MADE", which is... Oh my god. He's almost in on it too, it has the same energy as dodging Flowey's attack at the start where he says "You know what's going on here, don't you? You just wanted to see me suffer."
The Weird Route isn't like No Mercy Route where it's an unnecessary route that shows your unwillingness to put the game down unless you know everything. The Weird Route tests the players attachment to this world in a tragic positive light, how far you're willing to go to change fate. What you're willing to sacrifice. But at the end of the day, you're going to be asked the question if you're doing this for these characters... this world....
Or if you're just doing it for yourself. Your self righteous perverted sentimentality.
Now I see the rest of the video, yea I see the issues with it but I also see the narrative pros of it as well. This is cool!!
Thank you for not being outwardly antagonistic towards crazy theories, but at the same time pointing out how people shouldn't take them as full on truth! Theories like this have been the backbone of so many fandoms, what kept them going through hiatuses and rough patches as well as maintained a kind of involvement in a piece of media. Any insane or cringey fan creation does that. They're all important. But it's also important to separate fan content from the original and this video makes a perfect point in favor of that
Can’t wait for Chapter 3 when we find out that even in the normal route Berdly dies in a freak accident at his job and it turns out that our choices REALLY don’t matter lmao.
Half way through the video and I will point out that most people are doing the best with what we've got. We don't know yet whether something is significant or just a mistake, but people trying to put them together based on conjecture is a good thing. they won't be mad whether they're wrong or right. I'll change this comment when i'm further through if my opinion changes or I have mroe to say
If people want to base their theories on some small detail, then they should be able to go for it! Theories based on small details are cool. and while you have no evidence that those aren't just plot holes, you also have no evidence that they don't point to something bigger. They might? That's the point of theorizing. They could all point to something bigger.
I agree that some people try to definitively prove something with a plot hole, and thats a little uncool, but when people base their theories on uncertain ground thats cool to me! They might be right. So long as people don't get into massive arguments about it its fine
Ok seems like you agree with me
This is a very cool video!
I love the theories that you came up with, although these are more theories that would make for an interesting narrative I gotta admit, that should be all media theories, my favorite kind of theory, also pretty cool that you actually tried to put holes in your own theory, don't see a lot of people do it and I would love to see more of that. Overall, excellent!
Maybe you CAN use the Weird Route to access Dess and "brute force" a happy, but hollow, ending. But personally, I think when there is nothing you can do to defeat Gaster, and the places that you know, feel like fantasy. There's a light inside your soul, that's still shining in the cold.
Don't Forget.
2 Things I really wanted addressed:
1) Why would Gaster need a vessel, why Kris?
2) What does it mean to have courage? There's a reoccurring theme with our soul and courage (perhaps the replacement to determination?) being nodded at over and over again. What does it mean and how does it come into play?
Great video man, def becoming one of my favorite channels. I just got an idea watching your video though. What if in the prophecy, the 3 “Heroes” are your 3 Save Files? 🤷 all needing to come together to get the “Final” ending?
A human - you (pacifist)
A Monster - You (Weird Route)
A prince of the dark - (idk man I’m not a theorist)
Just a thought I guess
Woa woa woa. Three routes make one ending. Youre onto something there
I think it'd be a cool idea, no ones done anything that meta before, I guess besides Toby himself XD
5:30 Calling the whole "twitter takeover/gonermaker guy/save file helper is gaster" an assumption is under selling it, honestly. There's enough evidence in support of that idea that it is at the very least a circumstantial possibility. Sure, it's not confirmed, but there's still enough there to indicate on balance that that person is Gaster
An amazing video that puts mamy of my problems with this fandom in a precious way, i liked that part most than the main theory itself XD.
I Would like to see that video of the arg quests ending tho👀
This is a really interesting theory, and I like a lot of elements of it. The first part, I love and mostly believe. It actually aligns with a theory I have quite a bit. (I'll get there) The part about gaster getting you to do his bidding is an interesting point, and I see where you're coming from, but It just doesn't seem right to me. The third part I do not believe at all, but I absolutely adore it. Traveling throughout different saves to get the key to a lost save sounds very fitting, both for a direction toby would take and very fitting for the nature of the character.
I love how you talked about the puzzle mentality people use when creating theories. It's been a problem that 100% stemmed from a combination of FNAF and game theory. They're fun to listen to, and I do think that with a solid base, they hold some ground, but just fall into madness when used for the basis of a theory or for disproving others theories. It doesn’t make sense to disprove somthing because the clocks in the school don't line up. There are plenty of dev reasons, and sometimes even in-universe reasons why stuff like that can happen. (Like, for example, maybe all of the clocks in the school are set to different times because when they got the clocks, they weren't synchronized, and they never bothered to fix it (This would be espically reasonable for the clock in the abandoned classroom.) While we do like these connected theories, our brains just like them a lot for the closure, the internet has just been conditioned to stare at tiny details on the wall to try and get anything of coherent sense.
Anyway, that's over. Bad transition here, time for my theory.
What if the entirety of deltarune is an experiment being overseen by W.D, with the scientist lightly interfering? Specifically, an experiment to test player choice. He was running determination experiments, but where does the source of that determination come from? Perhaps, only then did he discover the nature of the external force that interacts with the world. The experiment exists on four planes.
The dark worlds where he can safely interfere with and run/control the experiment,
the light world where the world exists on a stable level for characters to return to,
space and time, or wherever gaster resides,
and our world, which Gaster is hoping to get a better understanding of its influence. (Us.)
Alright, now the preparations are complete. Let's run down the subjects, which is to say any lightener who (so far) has gone into a light world, with one fluffy exception.
The variable: the soul: I know it's weird that i'm mentioning this different from kris, but I'll explain in second (you might see where I'm going with that. The Soul interacts with the world/dark world and makes choices, acting as a vessel for the player.
The influence, Susie: Influences and interacts the variable. Susie and Kris (with the soul) interact and influence each other more than any character in the entire game. Susie most often directly cuts off choices from the player, making it a great thing to test in an experiment like this. "How will this make them feel?"
The constant/the motivivator, Ralsei: Rasei shows signs of being given far more information than most of us are comfortable with, yet not so much that they become diluted. This was an intentional part of the experiment. Ralsei shows to be the exact opposite of Susie, in the fact he shows little to no resistance to anything the player chooses. Ralsei also moves the experiment along, making sure no one gets off the track of the experiment along the way.
The reactant, Noelle: Noelle, is by far shown to have the most effect based on kris's actions. Either deepening a relationship with Susie or becoming strange and compliant with Kris.
The residue, Berdly: Berdly doesn't fit into this very smoothly. He doesn't interact with kris in meaningful ways (Susie does, though) he stands in kris's way one moment, but also is a supportive ally the next. He can get killed as well. With this veiwpoint, he definitely isn't a part of this experiment, but rather an unintentional result of it. But this result doesn't really tell us anything, as it is very indirectly affected by the player, so it's accurate to call berdly residue of sorts (in the most neutral connotation possible).
The vessel, Kris: Kris was probably chosen as the vessel because of their unique place, situation, and social interactions (particularly with Susie). Think about it, someone who doesn't have a happy life probably wouldn't mind being controlled by an external force. It was a safe choice. Except, that is exactly what happened. At the end of chapter 1, as we stop using the soul, Kris becomes aware at where it is, and although digs into a pie, clearly states their intentions twords this force. We see them rebelling against this force, particularly (and so far only, aside from the first time.) when they make their own dark fountain, probably to try and escape into a world their own, circumventing the dark worlds designed for a test. I believe this conflict will be what causes the roaring. In fact, Kris might BE the roaring in some way, emblematic or not. Their relationship with the controlling soul seems interesting and unique, but further chapters will have to open this up to us outside of speculation.
The experimentor, Gaster; now we talk about the experimentor himself. The dark worlds are test environments, I expect. Meant to stimulate and test different choices (like secret bosses, jevil was him seeing how we would interact with insanity, and spamton was seeing how we would interact with insanity sprinkled with some morality, power-blanance, and empathy.) We can see him (presumably) when we go to the tree places, and he gives us eggs (unknown reason, funny though). These spaces are clearly sperperate from space because of the wonky collision and time because of the unique track that plays. Characters like Spade King were directly put there by him, and I could go on, but given his scientific background, I think this fits. (It would be pretty cool if He was a secret boss of chapter 7, or maybe a secret boss. You fight once you get the shadow mantle. I don't see him in a main boss role, however.)
So, what do you think of this theory youtube comments? Thank you for reading all the way through despite the long comment.
About the single ending thing, I wonder if that there will indeed be one ending, but the path you choose in getting to that ending may give it an extremely different context. Hence, alternate routes for each chapter, but all one ending, which makes the potential meaning and consequences of it entirely subjective to each player. That would make the most sense to me given what Toby has said and how the game is at this time.
Yeah, I'm not sure I agree with "if someone asked you the ending of Star Wars you'd HAVE to summarize the whole movie" - what was put forward as "you wouldn't just..." is EXACTLY what I would say unless they asked for more non-ending information, and I would say it if the entire rest of the movie was unrecognizably different but led to the same ending.
That is to say I think since there are Very Clearly multiple "middles", if there is to be only one ending the middles leading up to it would recontextualize, but maybe not change it. In another video someone mentioned that the death screen says "you have reached an end", and I put forward that the "one end" could be Kris dying but literally the somewhere between one week and eighty years until then (and the world after that) being completely different depending on your choices.
Of course, there is still the cheeky question mark, which COULD mean Toby is fucking with us by pulling something like I suggested with a mind-bending take on what "ending" itself means, but could also mean he's fucking with us in the sense that that's just a lie and literally fighting that notion will be part of the plot/theme. What I DO agree with is that we don't have all the puzzle pieces yet.
Always love me a good crackpot theory (like TripleJ would say) and I agree with you on a few points. Especially that people tend to take these too serious, or act like everything you said is a fact. Thats why it's called a theory. Sure, some parts might be true, but we only have 2 Chapters out of 7. It is so incredibly unlikely that anyone is able to figure out the majority of the plot or what the end is going to be like. I just love listening to these wild theories, its fun to talk and think about, and then just see everything get debunkend once more chapters come out. Thanks for the vid.
The only part of the plot I wish would happen is that Everyman is much more important than appears to be so far.
@@nicestoriesnottherealstori3006 I see barely many theorists talk about him. yeah i somehow feel that he is important for the plot in some way
I’m actually impressed and interested by some of the concepts presented in this video. Nice work man.
Something interesting to note about gaster's number, is that a 6 is actually an inverted 9, which is Chara's number, the final HP total and all the stats of the genocide route are 99, the second hit on sans (which is implied to be chara) deals 9999 damage exactly no matter your current weapon, the Real Knife and The Locket provide 99 ATK and DEF respectively, and chara deals 9999999999999... damage, so it could be symbolic of him being somehow the opposite of Chara. And considering that Chara is one of the two possible "Angels" from the *Deltarune* prophecy, it makes sense that gaster would fashion himself as an angelic devil, if his enemy was a demonic angel like Chara.
Also when you copy one save file to all three slots it says something about preparations being complete, which suggests that all three files are needed to get the one ending, possibly Sonic Adventure 2 style.
Ah, the sym69s of the sufferer
Also the "Third Person" who interrupts Gaster's conversation with the player in the beginning of the game could be Chara!
Oh hell naw, bro took the deltapill.
He's gonna start JaruJaruJ'ng all over the deltarune theory scene.
Honestly your videos are really well made and thought out. I don't really care about deltarune that much but this had me engaged. I'd totally watch non-deltarune videos from you
Finally! It's been a while since I've seen a new, original theory I can really sink my teeth into. This was great.
Dude, have you sleeped since the last video? Awesome theory and it makes so much sense and it makes the story very interisting, theory so good i could [ Die ]!
Wow, I'm a big fan of this video! I don't think any other youtube theorist is doing theorycrafting on a level this broad/analyzing structural themes and whatnot rather than just "puzzle pieces." I don't think I've seen a Gaster theory this comprehensive either.
While I agree that (especially the later parts) the theory might not be super likely, I do think it's pretty cool, especially the idea of hunting around previous chapters/save files to find a way to beat Gaster. I also really like the touch of Gaster's name being unusable because he's the one controlling the save files.
My main gripe, I think, is the point you actually brought up about how odd this would seem to a casual player - namely one that didn't know who the hell Gaster is (as most casual players of either game don't). That's something I'm really interested to see how it's dealt with: will Gaster be teased more visibly in later chapters? Or is Toby fine with some of that confusion on a casual player, knowing how much of his audience does know of Gaster already?
While your vision of the ending might not be right, there are some really good ideas in it that I feel like are pretty interesting possibilities for the future, like Gaster's potential motivations, or the connection between world's edge, water/oceans, and that old Toby tweet. Even if you don't believe it, I'd love to see some more specific theorycrafting from you as far and away you have the most innovative (but realistic) ideas among ut/dr theorists right now, along with VGFM on tumblr, perhaps.
Jarujaruj is similar in making very in-depth theories about cool ways things would make sense and tell things from a narrative point of view as well. If that's your thing I would def recommend him. If nothing else he lets himself be crazy enough with his ideas about what would be a compelling story that it helps while waiting for the next chapters coming out. Jaru is a nutcase but that's why his videos are a fun ride imo.
@@sentarious1 yeah, I know jaru. I have other issues with him but I think his theories are a little too nitpicky of specific details as opposed to the approach here
There is nothing wrong woth asking or questioning the logic of stories. The best stories can have strong themes while following and being consistent woth itself
havent finished watching the full vid but will edit when done (im about 25 min in) - but just wanted to point out that toby did say that theres something more important than the ending (on the deltarune website FAQ), so i completely agree that even the first thing you mentioned could be the real ending.
edit: love the theories! however, i do believe one very important aspect that was not talked about in the video is the vessel. where were they sent when they were "discarded"? was it the depths, or someplace else? if it was the depths, and dess was also in the depths, who is the person talking to us in the code? if not... where are they? and what will their role be, as they were also given a mind? this is likely just one of those things you mentioned where i am digging too far into this, and it could have easily been just an introduction to the theme that your choices dont matter, but you never know!
keep up the great work on the videos, by the way! i always love to watch them!
The,, Gooster ,,theory is obviously the Ultimate convincing theory I'm absolutely on board whit.
After all, why WOULDN'T the final boss be Gooster , he is a goose 🦆 and we have seen the absolute sucky machine Toby forced us to build in CH 1 by making it the stupidest option possible and ,,Jaru Jaru" completely convinced me ...
Edit:
On a serious note ,the Shadow Cristal collection is the only purpose,,Gaster" or whomever (,,Seam,,) might need us (the player) to complete and put together whatever their plan is.
The world (potentially) has seen the roaring or a reset whithout our intervention many times over and the completion of the ,, Shadow Cristal" is the thing that could potentially change the worlds ultimate fate or seal it (ala ,,Dark") the German Netflix show .
22:00
That makes sense but not specifically at that point.
As i said the ,, Shadow Cristals" for me are far more important than the fountains themselves.
28:15
Wat....WHAT!
HOW?
WAT!
30:00
My boy this theory fell off harder than a JaruJaru stunt wtf have you been drinking today 😳😳😳😳😳🤨
31:30
Finally we are back on the sane notion
32:30
For me the ,, Genocide ending " is the thing that makes UT work as a game.
Yes Perfect Pacifism is good and all but if it was the only possible path it wouldn't mean anything if there were no CONSEQUENCES.
I think it isn't just punishing players for wanting to be bad, it actively gives you the experience you are looking for when deciding to act a certain way which 99% of games DON'T do.
33:40
I don't think it was inserted specifically to appease the fans. Toby talked in a life stream about wanting to give a certain character fire attacks in the first chapter but decided against it in the last moment.
It's widely speculated that those attacks would be ,,fire" attacks for Ralsey that could deal damage as early as CH1 but he decided it would be better to do it later.
35:20
Absolutely. And i also believe further chapters will also have a way to ,,break" the narrative the game is going for by going in a different path.
36:30
Worst part in this is, Kris is forced to act pseudo romantically towards Noelle to get her to do our bidding.
,, Teaching her to fight"
,, Making her stronger"
,, Saying they will ride whit her"
,, Buying her a ring(forcing her to take the ring sorry)"
,, Reinforcing her self destructive/regular destructive behaviour "
37:40
Idk anything about December and nether does anyone else not named Toby. For anything we know she is scrapped/G follower/G helper/Enemy? Who knows..
39:40
This is complete fan fiction material
41:50
You'd have a hard time convincing me of the 8.5/10 theory if i didn't know how weird Toby can be sometimes 🤨
42:25
Fair enough but i think you had a point at the beginning and perhaps could have explained your theory in a more believable way
43:10
That's pretty funny 🤣, I'm 99% sure Toby just wanted to make a cool Rules battle and didn't have a single thought about why he wasn't turning faster.
If anything i think the question should be why he turned ,,faster " in the ,,Weird Rought" as that could potentially have implications about the fountains,,Will" , or the thing that actually makes the Darkners ,,belong" in a world (as Lancer also seemingly turned to stone faster )
44:00
Mmmh, maybe, maybe not.
45:00
Truuuuu. Toby has rotted my brain for far too long. Maybe silly jokes are just silly jokes sometimes.
47:40
YESSS! PREACH BROTHER! PREACH THE THOUGHT !!!
54:00
It isn't really. Lucas hadn't thought of those ideas back then and nether had Toby about how his story would work.
Only the ending.
55:10
Hmm ,kinda like how people make theories about whether or not Sans bleeds 8 years after Undertale 🤣
56:50
Maybe.. maybe...
Maybe,,Sans is Ness ,, and the only true theory about DR is the one that makes the least logical sense.
At this point ill take anything as long as Toby doesn't make Ice-E the final boss i swear to Gooster i will end something!
Edit 38:20
,,Focus " hard enough huh.
There is only one place where Noelle can use that ability and its in the Berdly ,,Weird Rought" fight.
I have been interpreting "banish the angel's heaven" as "banishing heaven" not "banishing the angel." Your theory is pretty great, as a barebones skeleton of a prediction, but I suspect rather than "freeing gaster from his cage" its more of a "merging layers of reality" that the prophecy was speaking of. Gaster dragging heaven down into a Dark World, which is more or less what you predicted, just with Dess or Azrael being the "angel" instead of Gaster. I do rather like your theory and hope you are on the right track with the mandatory weird route being part of how the routes merge
First off, I really like this video. Personally, I find the idea that the Roaring is a means by which Gaster can re-enter Reality to be very compelling and- (if Gaster is going the be the main antagonist at the end of the story, which frankly, would be very surprising if he isn't) -highly likely to be how the story plays out. To be fair, like you said, we only have a small fraction of the facts, so there could be some major context we're missing, but I like this idea. I also really like the idea of Gaster locking you out of your Save (also works as an homage to Flowey overwriting your Save in Undertale), and having to find a way to get back in.
It also makes sense since Gaster's name is the only one in the Code that you're not allowed to use as your Save State Name. It could be just another Easter-Egg like the Name Screen in Undertale, but considering his is now the ONLY name you can't use, it seems plausible that this has some importance. As for everything else, while it's an interesting concept, and I would like to see the Weird Route have a point to its existence outside of a re-tread of the meta commentary Genocide in Undertale gave, I just don't see Toby making it mandatory. Over-all, this was a great watch and I also wholeheartedly agree with your assessment of most "Massive Puzzle to be Solved"-Style Theories to be way off base (including this one) to be fair. People should be theorizing about what comes next for fun, not to "Solve" the game.
It's a dumb mindset. Toby includes major Easter Eggs and Allusions to greater Lore because he loves engaging with critically-minded and curious fans and loves the idea of leaving things for people to go on a journey to find. That's why the TTS Text in Undertale's Files talking about people leaking the Secrets in the game's Code/Files and how he wasn't going to put anymore secrets in his games if it kept happening really struck a chord with me when I heard it. Bro just wants people to have fun finding cool secrets and people were ruining it in his eyes by spoiling the secrets for those who hadn't gone looking for them yet.
Mind you, he seems to have come back around to how things are with this many eyes on his work since he's obviously still including secrets in his games (and it could be because he realized people could enjoy these secrets in their own right outside of the journey to find them), but I also can't help but wonder if he might try messing with the "Puzzle Fans" that you talked about in this video. I won't bet on it, but it'd be fun to watch him just be like, "Gaster? Why would an Easter-Egg Character from Undertale be in this game? The Intro Text? Twitter? Dude, I just write that way when I'm trying to be dramatic."
Also, on a completely unrelated side-note. Referring to the Void Gaster resides in as "The Depths" is so much better than "the void" and this is coming from a long time Undertale Fan and enjoyer of various Fanon interpretations of Gaster. Like, you can use them interchangeably, but I think I'm going to start referring to the Inky Black Below all Creation as "The Depths" because it sounds cool and serves multiple purposes in my story-telling. Like, I always thought the White Void of the Multiverse in Undertale Fan Works "The Anti-Void" to be a REALLY stupid name, but the only one that worked since the space Gaster Theoretically inhabits was being called "The Void". So I know it technically came from Toby's File Naming Conventions, and you just expanded upon it, but I'm now officially referring to "The Void" as "The Depths" instead.
Ok regarding gaster being the big bad, I'm sorry I really don't think it's the case! I think he will be similar to chara in Undertale in that he is a looming force that interacts with the player more than the protagonist. Gaster was created late into undertale and Deltarune was formulated even before that, so I don't see how he could be the lynchpin of the whole game.
I like the multiple mandatory routes theory but something i want to tack on to it is that to make the Twisted Sword you need the thorn ring but if you complete the weird route Noelle leaves with the ring, so the only way so far to get the ring would be to progress through a wierd route but abandon it near the end, meaning you would have to do a Neutral route.
There are three files to use, and if we are following the theory in the video that we basically use one file to free Gaster one to power up Noelle, so what is the last file for? What if it is to get tools/ weapons necessary to complete the game?
Remember Kris while strong has not been shown to have impossible levels of power, King while strong was still just a guy, Queen's mech bodied the three of them and they needed a similar mech to match her, and Spamtom in his Neo form in his defense mode was fully invulnerable to Kris.
Heck even in Undertale Frisk couldn't do anything but withstanding Arsriel's attack.
So unless Kris got an upgrade of sorts it wouldn't make sense how much help in a final battle he could be.
You could argue that in the next chapters, Noelle probably will have another stronger ring in Weird route and you must equip it to continue the route and then you get the thorn ring on the weird route.
so, I always figured that the knight was hiding in the computer lab's closet (explicitly stated to be big enough for a large person), and waited until berdly and noelle were busy studying to open the door and make the fountain.
I do agree that the fanbase is jumping at shadows though (the different clock settings probably really don't mean anything, except possibly that they're poorly maintained). I also agree that theres just not enough information available yet to piece the main plot together, which is why my personal "theories" are mostly just vague clouds of loose associations.
I don't have strong feelings on the Rouxls Kaard theory, but I would point out that the events of the weird route cause a substantial disturbance at queen's mansion before you get there, which may have caused him to drop the act earlier.
Man, remember when it was just chapter 1 and everyone _waaaay_ overestimated Jevil's importance?
48:20 I know you're on a roll and all, but the closet in the computer room has check text along the lines of "big enough to fit a large person", suggesting that someone may have been hiding inside of it. It's possible that The Knight, or whoever created that particular Fountain, did it while hiding inside of that closet, and then left the room. It's probably annoying, but it's still something to consider.
49:10 It doesn't help that his new design was stupid as hell.
35:00 I think Spamton is referring to snowgrave as a means to getting him Kris's soul, which he believes would allow them both to be free. So "making frozen chicken with your side chick" WILL "let you drink up that sweet, sweet freedom sauce", but only if you let him kill you. So if you don't, he's saying not to come crying to him, because you rejected the freedom he offered after sacrificing so much.
I would argue that Rouxls turning to stone is NOT comparable to the clocks or to the pacifying-Rude Buster, since more attention is given to Rouxls being a statue than the clocks being wrong or the Rude Buster acting weird that one time.
thank you thank you for saying sorta that the games biggest most interesting thing is the relationship between the characters, the known characters in this game are so beautiful and special and i feel like nothing gaster or dess does will top them
I enjoyed the video, and I totally agree with the point that the “puzzle piece” mentality is really annoying. The only thing I dislike about this video is your tangent on the Kris is Knight theory, I feel like you straw-manned that actual argument, theres more evidence than Noelle and Berdly studying, like the window of time Kris would be able to open the fountain being nonexistent (unless Kris somehow broke into the library on his night time pie escapade), the emphasis on the closet being able to fit someone big inside, the fact that King and Queen dont recognize Kris( because I doubt Kris would have planned on Susie and them going into the dark world), and that Kris seemingly only learns how to open a dark fountain from Queen when she explains it before her boss fight. Theories like Asriel being dead are also really dumb, mainly because they require some GIANT leap in logic to fulfill. Other than my one problem with the video, it was AMAZING, keep up the good work.
This is a great video! I really think you should keep it up and continue videos like this but I have a small problem with the whole "Fans should stop overanalyzing and theorizing every single detail about ___. Not everything should need an explanation." Whilst I agree, overanalyzing on something seemingly unimportant can create confusion and most of the theories don't even make sense, I still think that it's fun for people to continue overanalyzing. It can keep the name of a game(movie, series ect.) alive with people analysing stuff on Undertale even with the game being over 5 years old now and it also lets people think things from a different point of view than that they had originally. I think the only problem with people continuing to overanalyze is the length some people will go to to prove that their theory stands and that they're "100% on the right.". Overanalyzing details that are mostly unimportant should be something done for fun and not competition. People should keep in mind that a theory is nothing but that, a theory, and whilst lots of things can prove this theory right, the same thing can happen to prove said theory wrong. People should treat theories as theories and not facts and people should discuss on which theory is most likely, not fight over which theory is right.
I will preface this with…I agree with everything else you said in this video, and the theory, even if flawed, I genuinely think has a chance of being real and I’d prefer it tbh.
THAT BEING SAID…
Ok so, I will say.
If Kris is the Knight…
It will be a plot hole to hell and back for the rest of time that they managed to open the dark foundation in the Library without being there.
What makes sense from a plot stand point, that they just did something we have had no idea anyone could do from a different location WHILE WERE CONTROLLING THEM… or that someone else simply did it the way that has already been described to have occurred two times and escape while it was opening.
Occam‘s razor is the logical answer and the narratively satisfying one here. I don’t think Toby would pull “time set Dark World bomb” on us without any semblance of explanation before hand. I get that the “Kris is the Knight” Theory is a big one that seemingly has been debunked but this feels genuinely like if it is real that this is the biggest oversight Toby would have made in his entire career and I don’t think it makes sense for him to gouge such a plot hole in his story like that.
only 10 seconds in but im happy someone's made a deltarune gaster theory video as they arent as commonplace as one would realistically expect
I feel like you’re too worried about how the fandom looks and how much time it wastes.
You know we are all just counting down the days until the next chapters release, at which point we’ll drop the stupid theories we currently hold (Papyrus is the knight ftw btw) and immediately start new ones. That’s how we did it after Chapter 2 released and that’s how it’ll be until the game is fully playable. So just.. don’t worry about it if kids are using insufficient data to construct bonkers theories.
Jokes on you. Rude Buster is already magic.
"When we arrive at Queen's Castle, Roulxs is already stoned, even though he's wearing a pirate hat."
"Kris is the Knight" theory has much more evidence as to why it's not entirely correct. "A large person could fit inside" implying that yes, someone did open the fountain literally behind their backs. The timing. The books. People who saw the Knight, referring to the Knight and Kris as separate. Ralsei not saying anything about a new Fountain.
I feel like Asriel and Chara will be involved in SOME WAY. You forget that, in UNDERTALE, the Delta Rune has the alternate meaning in that world has being the Dreemur family insignia. December Holiday isn't the only person that could be there. It's possible she 'fell down' and her fate was the same as the amalgamates. Ralsei is acting VERY suspiciously. And Asriel is supposed to appear at the end of the week. He's supposedly at 'university'. When you think about Gaster being a Doctor in UNDERTALE, it gives a lot of possibilities: he could be a Professor at the university, but he COULD also be the Doctor at the hospital. People should have the ability to extrapolate clues based on what they believe in. Who knows what Toby is hinting at? He DOES put clues in his games. The reason people are so clingy to it with DELTARUNE is due to UNDERTALE having multiple small clues to Toriel and Asgore appearing later and Asriel being Flowey. Regarding the SW lore example, well SW is EXACTLY about small details and stuff, so it doesn't fit to your point. We don't have the full story so when we have all the puzzle pieces, we'll be able to step back and say "HEY! That makes sense now!" I DO think Gaster WILL appear in some form, whether we see him or not. I think it's been hinted at with the fun events and everything and the NEW Clam Girl dialogue mentioning a 'Suzy' before appearing like the Gaster followers and then making the EXACT SAME SOUND as them. This is DEFINITELY a piece of evidence. You have to remember what's going on in Toby's mind. Toby said he had a dream about a big battle between light and dark in April 2012 (hence the filename of the song from card castle) and that he came up with most of the basic ideas for DELTARUNE long before UNDERTALE! This will be the greater story, the bigger manipulation! Seven chapters seems like a bit long for a game that's supposedly released 'so many' pieces of the puzzle, so my theory is that five or six of the chapters will be 'normal' then we will get another chapter where we find out what's 'really' going on!
I agree with basically all of this but I don't think Chara will show up at all. Like I think they're mostly an Undertale exclusive thing and unlike gaster I don't see why they would be in this world/story ESPECIALLY cause Kris already has a ton of their traits and basically serves as both chara and frisk the point that neither of those characters need to appear.
The Delta Rune isn't the Dreemurr family insignia. It never states that in game. It's the emblem of the kingdom of monsters, not the Dreemurrs. ("That's the Delta Rune, the emblem of our kingdom... the Kingdom.. of Monsters." - Gerson in UT)
I don't think Toby will make Chara return. If he does, it might be something small like them being Asriel's roommate or something. I love Chara and Asriel, but they had their time to shine in Undertale - I don't think they'll play a major role in Deltarune.
In terms of Snowgrave / Weird Route being a better ending with freedom: It’s important to remember not only the way Noelle acts after it happens in the hospital, but also the way she can act when you choose to abandon the route. She makes remarks about how she thought Kris was acting weird, noticing something is wrong. But if you abandon the route, she dismisses her previous thoughts on it. She goes back to thinking Kris is acting normal. By doing something so drastically different that it couldn’t be considered the true nature of Kris, she could be alerted to the fact that Kris is not Kris, leading to their freedom.
Binged your entire channel, your videos are really high quality and you definitely deserve more subs. I noticed you have Omori music playing in the background in certain points of the video and was curious if you're ever gonna make an Omori video? Keep up the good work!
only about halfway through the video, but i really have to say i appreciate how grounded your speculation is. looking at the facts we have, acknowledging we dont have all the facts because the game isn't even at its halfway point yet, and considering what would make Sense for this franchise
soz but I can't rlly get behind snowgrave being the intended cannon. If that's the direction the game goes, I proly won't play it cuz this wldn't even be about moral greys anymore, its straight up manipulating a vulnerable person in a very explicit way (where snowgrave being intended meaning the player is rewarded for this manipulative behaviour). I remember being creeped the fuck out when I first saw a playthrough of snowgrave. On one hand, I applaud toby for making something so godman visceral, on the other hand, nah man. I ain't fuckin doing that route you can't make me.
@@Kade811 dont get me wrong, i think snow grave is a great addition to deltarune, just saying that if i needed snow grave for like a particular ending or sth (like some theorys floating arnd are saying) i would now do those cuz i cant stomach it. Its a subjective opinion tho.
19:40 - 19:48
I'd like to add something here. But biblically, demons are fallen angels. Angels who have been casted out of reality.
Not to be the one to overanalyze
But in the bible
Lucifer becomes the first fallen angel/demon by being casted out of heaven and falling to hell/earth.
As we probably know hell, heaven, and the universe seem to be different realties since the only way a person can travel between these worlds is through gods will.
Now let's take a look at gasters story
He "fell" into his own creation being scattered across space and time.
And eventually ends up in "the depths"
And enters deltarunes universe instead of the original universe he came from.
Meaning 1 "angel" (or fallen angel you could say)
3 realities
Both gaster and demons exist in 3 realities (for gaster its, the undertale universe, the depths, and the deltarune universe)
Not to mention "666" Is the mark of the beast or the anti christ.
Which fits ino your theory of gaster decieving us into believing he's the angel, same way the anti christ deceives us into believing he's god.
2 corinthians 11:14 : 'And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.'
in fairness, toby fox brought "Every single game mechanic is a crucial clue!" on himself, undertale literally made one of the most fundamental and basic parts of a video game, saving and loading a save file, one of the most important parts of the game.
you can be annoyed that now the community is obsessed with analysing basic video game necessities like explaining the controls, guiding the player to the right path and railroading the story, that's perfectly fair, but since undertale actually did that once and it was insane and meta and blew everyone's minds it's inevitable that people are looking out for things like that now.
plus, undertale and deltarune REALLY like to play around with video game stuff, most of it might just be jokes and not important but sometimes it is and the games are so multi layered and everything is connected so how can we tell?
like here's one, in undertale you meet a froggit in the ruins that can change the colour of the text when you can spare a monster. They say that every monster literally has their name but in yellow font, but he could ask them to use pink instead. If you want them to go back to yellow they say that it'll be annoying since all monsters would have to grab their yellow text out of the trash.
it's silly, and a funny mental image, but does that mean the UI is actually a real thing in-universe? monsters actually do take turns attacking, sans' ultimate attack is not ending his turn, so what does that mean? we know undertale is a video game but is the world of undertale literally a video game? is this common knowledge for monsters? they certainly reference video game things and tropes. when we reset the timeline or load a save, is saving and loading just the way that this cosmic manipulation is shown to us, or are we literally saving and loading a video game?
when flowery saves and loads in his big fight, we actually see the text like an emulator, so does that confirm it? when he says that he saw everyone as lines of dialogue and numbers, does he mean that as a metaphor? that everyone just SEEMED like video game sprites, dialogue and numbers, because he's gone through it all so many times and burned out any emotional connection. or is he actually seeing the truth of things, and realised that they actually ARE just sprites, dialogue and numbers.
we can't say! it's all too vague and there aren't enough explanations. deltarune might actually give us answers, because gaster is up to something and he might have actually created deltarune. but even if we find out deltarune is literally a video game/simulation that gaster made, which would explain all the video game mechanics and stuff, why is undertale like that? is the world of undertale connected to deltarune? is the world of undertale also a video game/simulation? or is that simply how we, the players, experience it? is chara involved??????????
anyway yeah, toby fox brought this endless insane theorycrafting onto himself and we should have no sympathy. please make a queen plushie.
This was a fun vid man. Definitely right about some people taking minute details way too seriously and putting too much faith in early theorizing. We should have fun thinking about these things, and the theory in this vid was certainly a fascinating ride, but we should also ultimately take them with a grain of salt. You've earned my sub.
Yes, not every little detail has to have meaning, of course! Some people take things way too seriously. Still, it's just fun to poke at everything and have fun crafting plausible explanations for in-universe things. Not everyone doing it is being serious, either.
I can get behind the main theme of the video, about how not every piece is part of the puzzle, and how we can't construct everything because we only have the rising action portion, and was even vibing with the larger theory idea.
Tbh my only real objection was when you used the Kris-knight theory debunking as an example, by saying that Berdly and Noelle already studying together as the fountain is made is such a stretch before Kris had the chance to arrive. The reason why I object is that because the identity of the knight is set up as a deliberate mystery in Chapter 2, and so the timeline of that morning WOULD be among the things we should be looking at for clarity instead of something just far out and irrelevant.
The comment about a large person fitting in the closet could be a red herring, or an indication the knight had just used that location as a hiding place. I just thought that this specifically was an example of GOOD overanalysis versus bad overanalysis. After all, the mini mystery of the Knight doesn't need all the buildup and extra chapters the whole games finale would.
Thank you for mentioning the scavenger hunt idea and the whole thing with the twisted sword. Though I had heard about it before, it really makes me wonder in light of everything else covered in the video what there may be that's not yet apparent.
I hope when ch. 3-5 of Deltarune comes out, that we'll still be all over the place with theories about ch. 6-7. For better and worse.
spooky dood every time you upload i get happy i love you
Obviously haven't seen the entire video, but you've been hyping this up for a while so I'm really excited! Will edit this when I'm done.
Edit: Really like the ideas you have, it would be a really cool cinematic experience that would certainly have that "a-ha" moment. Probably won't happen because like you said, this relies on all the things we know staying the same, but great job putting it together with the lack of info we have. You deserve all the growth man, keep going ❤
I dunno if making an attempt to make one big theory without all the puzzle pieces was a good idea, haha.
Edit 1: Ok, I absolutely agree with you on that even if the ending is the same, the path the characters took to get there can change its meaning.
Edit 2: 41:47 ok, yeah, I'm glad you admit that some parts of this theory are way less likely than others. But uh, I feel like many good theorists poke holes in their own theories, or present alternative solutions. That's not that unusual.
one thing I really like about this theory is that it treats it as a Story told within a Video game unlike most other People do.
Most people don't really think about how their theory would work within the game and kind of leaves that to the viewer which kind of muddies the theory.
Jarujaruj made some similar lengthy theories based primarily on the compelling narrative of the story rather than stopping due to the lack of evidence from only 2 chapters so if that's your cup of tea I def recommend checking him out. Jaru is a nutcase who lets himself go crazy with speculation for a fun best guess at things we can't possibly know yet but that helps while we wait another two years for the next chapters
Great video! I really liked all the points you made!
Is there a theory where the player is the angel?
That the goner vessel in the beginning of the game is going to be what you control to fight the fun gang?
i had thought of the idea before. My personal guess was that since the game has a big theme of lacking control, the player might be doomed to bring forth the roaring at the end, forcing us into a final boss fights against the fun gang with the tragic irony that since we can reset as many time as we like, the bad ending is inevitable.
pretty bleak, but the game does seem like its trying to ask the question "Can you find meaning in the journey even if none of your choices matters in the end?"
I LOVE this theory especially since it's been bugging me that a lot of theories don't mention how tangible the save screen seems to the game. That save screen is definitely something that exists somewhere and I have a few thoughts if that's okay!
- after making at least one save and playing the game the save screen plays the undertale theme. The song is literally called "Undertale" and unless I'm mistaken so far it's the only time this song plays in the game which is WIERD for a series that uses musical motifs repeatedly as a storytelling tool. it's almost as if we are somewhere else until we enter a save file. (more specifically, Undertale?) is this a reach, maybe, but it's just too strange to rule out considering how diegetic the save screen seems
- if the rules of Undertale still apply to Deltarune that would mean that Gaster himself would not be in control of the saves since the only beings that can manipulate saves have determination. unless Gaster somehow managed to use determination and we haven't found evidence for that yet, that would mean in order for him to do all of the file manipulation he needs a human soul. there is ONE human soul that hasn't been accounted for in undertale and that's the first fallen human. (unless you consider that the only other place we see a red heart other than the player is in the generator in the true lab...and Chara's signature creepy smile only appears on the lab monitors AFTER you turn the generator on, just something that's been itching at me for a while). In other words gaster would have to collaborate with a human soul (or a being with determination) in order to do half the tomfoolery he's doing in Deltarune. could this be the soul we are playing as? especially since we as the players can see and interact with the save files, "hear" Gaster's dialogue at the beginning of the game and datamine to find "unused" code that's been clearly placed for the player to find.
- I think there will be one ending...technically. Toby hasn't wavered that much when asked about the endings and adds an extra layer of confusion when seeing the results of the weird route. But I think it's his intention to make us feel confused. Undertale has plot and lore that can be completely missed, what if that happens here too? what if there's another story taking place that we will never see contextually, but subtextually. my theory is that I don't think Gaster will make himself present in the main story other than messing around and trying to manipulate the fabric of reality for his unknown goal. we'll end up saving the world, find Dess and all will be well in the world of Deltarune. But what about the world where the save screen is? or the world with the "unused" code of a character crying? alot of players aren't even going to find the unused code, perhaps there are choices that affect THAT world and not the main plot of Deltarune? that would make having different routes with different consequences while also having one ending make sense. (at least to me!)
tl;dr the save screen is diegetic with ties to Undertale, Gaster needs determination to control saves and human souls are the only determined beings according to undertale and one ending is plausible if we consider whatever realm gaster, the save screen and the crying character in the code as part of a separate world.
In your first point are you talking about when the save screen becomes blue with Kris Susie and Ralsei are staring at a blue dark fountain? If so then the music that plays during that screen is called "Before the Story" and it was used for the PS4 UNDERTALE system menu theme.
Before the Story: th-cam.com/video/_0pFoKrY5TU/w-d-xo.html
Undertale - PS4 Dynamic Theme : th-cam.com/video/paRr8myqtUk/w-d-xo.html
Deltarune - File Select Screen: th-cam.com/video/6royur1YSFM/w-d-xo.html
@@hollowhenry04 oh I see! yeah! I was talking about the blue save screen, thanks for letting me know!
Still kinda weird to me that that screen uses an arrange of UT's theme and not just have an arrange of Don't Forget or something 🤔
I have a slight impression that gaster is a titan, trapped in darkness and that needs to be released, when the sources are opened the darkness leaves his dimension and he takes his form, and the final battle against satan begins
I always thought that the "your choices don't matter" thing was similar to Flowey's philosophy of "it's kill or be killed".
and Ralsei, being the TuToriel. says your choices DO matter, like how Toriel says "you don't have to kill."
but that's just me.