Man that scale is a life saver. Every other scale I have used has been inaccurate and causes so much problems because these units are so sensitive to the charge amount. A technician is as good as his tools are.
When I got my scale like yours it was a real game changer !! Currently the limit on R290 in the USA is 150 grams , however there in the process of getting the limit raised to 500 grams .
The IEC just approved an increase in the charge limit for propane (R-290) from 150 to 500 grams. How does this affect you? The standard revision allowing up to 500 grams of R-290 is in the international version of the equipment safety standard for commercial refrigerators, IEC 60335-2-89. The North American versions of the standard (UL and CSA) will go through a revision process of their own starting later in 2019. A working group composed of U.S. and Canadian experts will make harmonized changes to their standards based on what is best for North America. This may mean that a charge limit of less than 500 grams for R-290 is approved, or that it is only allowed in certain types of equipment, but we will have to wait and see. That work will likely take one and half to two years to complete. Europe, on the other hand, will likely adopt the IEC version of the standard with the 500-gram limit for R-290 starting sometime in 2020.
Thanus Stevenson I tried to post the link to two articles, but the algorithm keeps deleting it. But if you Google R290 limits you will get the AHR news article. The UL approved 500 grams in open case units, some of the information is dated. Cheers 🍻
It's not quite as straightforward as just checking ambient temp and assuming your saturation temps are correct. What if your box temp is 84 and your ambient is 95. It kind of changes things. You don't want your saturation temp in a 84 degree box to be at 15. The 10-20 Evap TD (depending on who you ask) stands true, Your suction and head will be way higher if your dealing with a really warm box temp. When I first started, I thought I overcharged a system and an old timer said "man don't worry yet let it run a couple hours and see what what it's doing then. It was running perfectly with 17 degree sat. Temp right before it would cycle off. Then the cap tube slowly plugged and that sweet 17 saturation had dropped to about 2 and High side just kept going up. Cap tubes.........
I put taps on all the r290 systems I work on, I’ve talked to multiple manufacturers, many say it’s totally fine just use sealed metal caps, plus I always leak check when I’m done. It’s just stupid to use piercing valves every time you need pressures. Then seal it off again, it’s asinine.
Great video. I am always at loss with split condenser temp. Sometimes its 30 sometimes its 25, 15 or 10. Obvisouly if someone uses 10 instead of 30 all calculations would be wrong and would predict restriction while there is not. is there a way to find out on the spot? Thanks tons
But the evap coil seems to be running too cold, can you post the manual of the unit, i think it should be as per manufacturer, other than that what a great video.
Yes Delfield has told us not to. True has told us to continue using it. Until I can’t find a leak with it, I will continue to use. The success rate has been high with this specific meter.
let me ask you. You don't evacuate rest of r290 out of system, just charge extra nitrogen yea? and this will help you find leak r290 under nitrogen pressure right? if yes, good idea. And 2nd question. When you charge that little amount of propans or other r600... how did you compensate weight of refrigerant which remain in hoses? Does it matter or no? can i do it like this: 1. put the cylinder on the scale - check the weight, e.g. 1000g 2. open all valves up to the gauges - check how much has been lost, e.g. 30g 3. Now open the last valve directly to charge the refrigerant into the system and control the amount of weight.
They now have a scale that the bottle screws into with a very small hose so the amount going into the system is very accurate. At the end of the day, if you know what your suction pressure needs to be, that is what we charge to and that may add an ounce or more to the listed critical charge.
I've always wanted a scale like this but just went off pressure all the time. Did you use national brand r-290? Because some of the bottles have different thread taps on the top. Just a lil tid bit y'all,. I've literally heard straight up from manufactures that they lie a little bit about total charge on label to stay under laws/regulations... So remember most of the time your gonna use most of that 14oz bottle. Even though it only says 7ozs. Also your only using 1/10" of an oz diluted with nitro for the test? Is that really enough propane?
With other refrigerants (134/404/22) I only put 5-8 psi then add refrigerant and have found leaks. In this case I was up 16psi so the meter should be able to pick it up, regardless the nitrogen pressures will let me know if there is a leak. In Canada, we can’t let refrigerant out into the atmosphere, it’s a huge fine, so we can only add a small trace amount when leak testing. In the case of R290, we can vent it, so it would not apply to R290. I found when I was using my other scale, the critical charge seemed to be off slightly like you are stating.
Yeah, I ran into the problem of the R290 cans with the valve that taps the can . They don't work on the scale. Have to use the self sealing national brand. But united refrigeration sells the national brand , and that's were I got the scale.
Is that a true box? Looks like it. TUC. TRUE told me can’t use any other refrigerant for leak testing, and that’s asinine as well. You did a great job!
if you know AND understand Refrigeration you wouldn’t be asking stupid questions, I don’t know it all but most people here shouldn’t be touching equipment they don’t understand 🙄
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Man that scale is a life saver. Every other scale I have used has been inaccurate and causes so much problems because these units are so sensitive to the charge amount. A technician is as good as his tools are.
👍
When I got my scale like yours it was a real game changer !!
Currently the limit on R290 in the USA is 150 grams , however there in the process of getting the limit raised to 500 grams .
So potentially see it on bigger equipment, cool. Yes, the scale is great.
It's the same limit in Europe. I never see equipment with a charge larger than 150gr
What is that process ?
The IEC just approved an increase in the charge limit for propane (R-290) from 150 to 500 grams. How does this affect you?
The standard revision allowing up to 500 grams of R-290 is in the international version of the equipment safety standard for commercial refrigerators, IEC 60335-2-89. The North American versions of the standard (UL and CSA) will go through a revision process of their own starting later in 2019. A working group composed of U.S. and Canadian experts will make harmonized changes to their standards based on what is best for North America. This may mean that a charge limit of less than 500 grams for R-290 is approved, or that it is only allowed in certain types of equipment, but we will have to wait and see. That work will likely take one and half to two years to complete.
Europe, on the other hand, will likely adopt the IEC version of the standard with the 500-gram limit for R-290 starting sometime in 2020.
Thanus Stevenson
I tried to post the link to two articles, but the algorithm keeps deleting it.
But if you Google R290 limits you will get the AHR news article.
The UL approved 500 grams in open case units, some of the information is dated.
Cheers 🍻
I've found with True they will usually send out a whole condenser skid on a bad compressor call. If you talk with tech support
Hi Anthony, I really learn a lot with your videos thanks. Why this time you add 15 and not 30 to ambient? Thanks 🙏👍
It all depends on the engineered Condensor split. Most of the new units are now a 15F split.
Thanks master ,when you come to Seattle wa and I invite you a lunch to thank you for this videos that I been learning a lot 🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏
Does it matter what side gas goes in? Example high or low? Should compressor be running? Thanks.
It's not quite as straightforward as just checking ambient temp and assuming your saturation temps are correct. What if your box temp is 84 and your ambient is 95. It kind of changes things.
You don't want your saturation temp in a 84 degree box to be at 15. The 10-20 Evap TD (depending on who you ask) stands true, Your suction and head will be way higher if your dealing with a really warm box temp.
When I first started, I thought I overcharged a system and an old timer said "man don't worry yet let it run a couple hours and see what what it's doing then.
It was running perfectly with 17 degree sat. Temp right before it would cycle off.
Then the cap tube slowly plugged and that sweet 17 saturation had dropped to about 2 and High side just kept going up.
Cap tubes.........
I put taps on all the r290 systems I work on, I’ve talked to multiple manufacturers, many say it’s totally fine just use sealed metal caps, plus I always leak check when I’m done. It’s just stupid to use piercing valves every time you need pressures. Then seal it off again, it’s asinine.
Ya agreed
Condenser split 10-15 ? Is that for just R-290 systems? Thanks again for sharing
Yes and some on the new “higher efficiency” walk in cooler/freezers.
Great video. I am always at loss with split condenser temp. Sometimes its 30 sometimes its 25, 15 or 10. Obvisouly if someone uses 10 instead of 30 all calculations would be wrong and would predict restriction while there is not.
is there a way to find out on the spot? Thanks tons
No not really, but based on your suction pressure you will be able to diagnose the issue with simply knowing if we have hi or low head pressure.
@REFRIGERATION KITCHEN TECH so do you just make a educated guess on what TD to use?
Not sure if you noticed it but on your testos you have the refrigerant set at 404A not 290
Ya I do that once in a while, but the pressures don’t matter to me as I am looking at saturation temperatures
Thanks for your time and that great video
Really great video
Do these reach in manufacturers provide manuals , does it say in them what the TD is?
Can you use r134a refrigerant with this scale?
Where does the ball valve get hooked up
Show how to use the scale
Hey sir , what you did with left over propane , did you vented out or put nitrogen with propane in system. Thank you
We can vent it by code in canada in a room that is well ventilated and no source of ignition
Just a quick question, How do you know the evaporator TD Is it always 20F?
Another good video thanks for posting👊
In most cases, reach ins are 20TD, walk ins 10TD.
But the evap coil seems to be running too cold, can you post the manual of the unit, i think it should be as per manufacturer, other than that what a great video.
We were told by a couple manufacturers not to use gas analyzer.
Yes Delfield has told us not to. True has told us to continue using it. Until I can’t find a leak with it, I will continue to use. The success rate has been high with this specific meter.
Do you leave ports on or crimp n braze shut if so what is your procedure to do so thanks
Yes need to crimp and shut for R290, way too much liability.
let me ask you. You don't evacuate rest of r290 out of system, just charge extra nitrogen yea? and this will help you find leak r290 under nitrogen pressure right? if yes, good idea. And 2nd question. When you charge that little amount of propans or other r600... how did you compensate weight of refrigerant which remain in hoses? Does it matter or no? can i do it like this:
1. put the cylinder on the scale - check the weight, e.g. 1000g
2. open all valves up to the gauges - check how much has been lost, e.g. 30g
3. Now open the last valve directly to charge the refrigerant into the system and control the amount of weight.
They now have a scale that the bottle screws into with a very small hose so the amount going into the system is very accurate. At the end of the day, if you know what your suction pressure needs to be, that is what we charge to and that may add an ounce or more to the listed critical charge.
Super thorough bro. Awesome vid.
👍👊
Love it
How much did you charge true for this repair
For the R290 little cans on a regular scale just clamp it with a vice grip and tare. No need for a special scale.
Ya I’ve used my normal scale a bunch of times but don’t find it accurate enough.
do u recomend true coolerS?
Yes
You need s Smith Little Torch! Best money I ever spent!
Once you got oxy/acetylene, you can’t go back. But for some of these smaller units I should maybe try a btank/map gas I guess.
Great video 📹. Thanks
I've always wanted a scale like this but just went off pressure all the time. Did you use national brand r-290? Because some of the bottles have different thread taps on the top. Just a lil tid bit y'all,. I've literally heard straight up from manufactures that they lie a little bit about total charge on label to stay under laws/regulations... So remember most of the time your gonna use most of that 14oz bottle. Even though it only says 7ozs. Also your only using 1/10" of an oz diluted with nitro for the test? Is that really enough propane?
With other refrigerants (134/404/22) I only put 5-8 psi then add refrigerant and have found leaks. In this case I was up 16psi so the meter should be able to pick it up, regardless the nitrogen pressures will let me know if there is a leak. In Canada, we can’t let refrigerant out into the atmosphere, it’s a huge fine, so we can only add a small trace amount when leak testing. In the case of R290, we can vent it, so it would not apply to R290. I found when I was using my other scale, the critical charge seemed to be off slightly like you are stating.
Yeah, I ran into the problem of the R290 cans with the valve that taps the can .
They don't work on the scale.
Have to use the self sealing national brand.
But united refrigeration sells the national brand , and that's were I got the scale.
I don't know why True still using old temperature control.so many compny using Digital thermostat controller now
Yes newer units are using the digital one
What happens to the unused propane once you puncture the can? Do you lose the rest that’s in the can?
Can is sealed, once you take it off the scale, it is sealed again.
Why was the TD for the condenser 15?
A lot of the newer stuff is now a 15F Split for efficiency
@@REFRIGERATIONKITCHENEQTECH thank you, how will we know this? I've never seen the TD on a data tag.
Unfortunately you won’t know
Should you add oil to it? Or only refrigerant
Depends on the situation. In this case, manufacturer did not ask me to.
Is that a true box? Looks like it. TUC. TRUE told me can’t use any other refrigerant for leak testing, and that’s asinine as well. You did a great job!
Great video, very good work
Hi mate How did you measure your system pressure and temperature on your mobile device 🤔
You need the testo smart probes and app
Did he put r290 as trace gas or did he put refrigerant??
R290, I was using the combustible leak detector. I would of used R134A if I was using my regular leak detector.
What computer program are you using to get the charge?
Charge is written on the nameplate.
What's the model of the chem penn? Do you think it's better than the master cool?
No model # and can’t even find it online. It looks identical to the mastercool 98202, just different labels. I’m pretty sure it’s the same one.
great job thank you
Cool channel
120 psig pressire test ,your pressure after the test is 112psig ,"we are holding pressure" you lost 8 psig its this right?
120 was when I was still adding nitrogen and gauge valve was open. System equalized at 112, that’s when I start to time the pressure test.
💪👍👍👍
Good
Is this Anthony? 🤘
Yes sir
It’s funny how R290 is treated like it’s going to explode the building or maim someone. Most units use 3-6 oz.
💣
doesnt take much to do damage. 1/2 cup gasoline can do tremendous damage
where can i get this scale?
I got it from united refrigeration, but the fitting has started to leak so I’m looking to get a different brand
@@REFRIGERATIONKITCHENEQTECH damn that sucks wasn't cheap either
I see video 2yrs old do you still have your eyebrows
Be safe 🍻
Lololol
thanks for the video, which supplier did u get the scale from?
United in Missisauga now has it. All the others have never even heard of it.
@@REFRIGERATIONKITCHENEQTECH thank u , ill ask rob from concord to get it for me
Why don't you just charge in the factory charge on the name plate and call it a day?
I’m finding when I do that with the units with small charge amounts, the suction pressure is too low and the unit takes too long to cool.
if you know AND understand Refrigeration you wouldn’t be asking stupid questions, I don’t know it all but most people here shouldn’t be touching equipment they don’t understand 🙄