Converting a R22 system to R407c
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 ต.ค. 2024
- R407c looks like the closest overall match to R22 refrigerant. It is very inexpensive. It has the same capacity. And most importantly, it matches the suction and discharge pressures well enough that metering changes aren't necessary. This video shows how to convert a R22 system to R407c. At least 20% polyolester oil is required in the system to have proper oil return to the compressor. Here is the 3 month update video. • R407c Conversion 3 Mon...
I love this guy's sense of humor, most of the guys doing these videos are boring!
An excellent and most informative video...It answers a lot of questions about what is the best R22 replacement and the best way of doing it....My thanks to the gent that made this film.
I have never taken out the 22. I just dropped the replacement refrigerant right in on top of it. The pressures are practically the same. It works good no problem and it saves you and the customer a lot of time and money.
I have never seen a scroll compressor without POE as the factory oil . Learn something new every day.
Good point.
Most Copeland I've seen have mineral
I switched to rs-44b myself and it has been working great for me.
Did you have to change oil and compressor and filter drier on that one or what?
@@fckthemedia1649everytime you open a system to atmospheric pressure you change the line drier. ALWAYS. But no RS-44B can work with either oils
thank you sir for this expository. i have been searching for a definitive answer for the best drop in and it seems no one wanted to commit to saying what is the best. here, you have laid it on the line for me. i am not an hvac tech nor a diy'er but merely wanted to know so i could talk intelligently to a service man should my unit need attention. again thank you........g
R458. No oil to change and it works great
THANKS i am retired but always love to learn new thing ,,,and this is good ,,,,thanks for sharing ,,,,god bless
"You have to be highly trained to do this, takes years of experience" lmao love it. Your my new favorite
He could barely contain himself when he was saying it. Love it...
Excellent video...I'm a former instructor, soon to be one again and I will use this as a teaching tool...My thanks to the gent that made it.
Vern Roach please don’t, if you think this is correct I would urge you to do some research
Don't use this to teach anyone
Great video and I love your sense of humor. You would be fun fun to work with!
Thanks for sharing your knowledge, Very informative...
Watching from Philippines 🇵🇭
Good job on the video, I learned a little more. I'll be watching several more before starting to make a move but I appreciate your information. I will probably convert to 407C and get a new compressor.
Clint Hightower surpluscityliquidators.com
@@NathansHVAC Didnt find any coils there, let alone a horizontal 5ton r22
You are an honest ac man , most ac men just change the whole system to 410 a for more money, thank you .
One this guy he didn't use nitrogen to leak check better yet a trace of nitrogen while brazing to keep coke from forming
410A is the smarter way.
Quick Question: Do you or do you NOT need to install a THX valve doing a 407C switch on a R-22 compressor. The 410a uses it, but R22 did not.
Nope, txv will keep superheat constant depending on temp. The txv should be able to compensate for the slight pressure difference of 407c compared to r22
Great video, I learned a lot. My 1.5 ton R22 unit iced up so was not blowing very cold or very hard. I turned off the system for about an hour and then ran the fan only for about another hour to defrost it. The filter is clean and no vents are blocked. All the icing was gone and the AC was blowing again although not blowing very cold. I know it will ice up if the Freon is low. The service tech came out and said it was low and put in 2lbs of 407C. My question, how many pounds does a 1.5 ton unit hold and would only down 2 pounds cause my system to become frozen? Hope I explained it correctly. Thanks so much.
Yes, a 1.5 ton need between 3.5 to 5 pounds... depending the brand... and yes, with 2 pounds less, any unit get frozen; because the pressure goes low and reaches lower temperature...
Haha topped of the 22 with 407c . I like it . Poor compressor
One pound low will do it my friend
I have a customer that bought 20 rental units almost every unit had no filter and impacted coils most were low on charge. Now I’m not disagreeing with you but I told him I would have to pull and clean all the coils fix leaks and convert all that were low to 407-c or replace the systems he had just bought the two buildings and was low on cash he said he just needed to get by for 6 months and he could only afford to spend 500 per unit at the time so I pulled the coils fixed the leaks pulled vacuums and charged the systems no oil change I told him without oil changes they would not last three months ( that was almost two years ago) I’m not saying it’s not a good idea to change the oil but I am saying that two years later 17 of the 20 are still running and the 3 I had to change failed because the condenser coils lost all ability to transfer heat due to corrosion not compressor failure so to all that say it’s not possible to not change the oil and last I guess I should not believe my lying eyes right! Again I’m not saying the manufacturers are wrong but that’s not really a small test sample either take it for what it’s worth 20 for 20? Now talk all the trash you want ps that’s not the only time I’ve done it with the same results
alot of guys at my local shops are saying the same thing. just drop it in and no problems
As long as you have enough velocity (which r 22 systems have) and the compressor is not installed too far above the evaporator coil oil return should not be a problem. A few squirts of POE wouldn't hurt either.
question for you. i have someone replacing my outside unit compressor. understably, the 407c is the best compatible replacement for the r22. long term use of the r407c will cost me less money in the future if i need more refill.i was told that i should keep the r22 since the upstairs unit works harder than the downstairs unit. any thoughts......
R-407C is a mixture of hydrofluorocarbons used as a refrigerant. It is a zeotropic blend of difluoromethane (R-32), pentafluoroethane (R-125), and 1,1,1,2-tetrafluoroethane (R-134a). Difluoromethane serves to provide the heat capacity, pentafluoroethane decreases flammability, tetrafluoroethane reduces pressure.[1] R-407C cylinders are colored burnt orange. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R-407C
look up the emissions from water treatment plants. the amount of chlorine. and dig deep because ya know, propaganda these days…
hello there, let me see if i understood about change the refrigerant r22 to r407c. for an a/c by expansion byt capillary tube or expansion valve only is necessary change the oil of the system and dryer filter from line of liquid? or exist other dispositive for change it?
greatings from Perú.
Could you not short cycle the compressor opening your manifold and have it pump the mineral oil out after removing any R22 ?? Then pull a vacume, install via the vacume the synthetic oil, then pull a vacume a second time before dumping in the 407C ??
R22 is still plentiful, if the leak can be fixed just fix it and recharge with R22. You don't have to charge the homeowner $100+ lb, that is just what the industry charges. R22 cost a technician/company about $15 a lb, most companies just have a high mark-up to capitalize on the phase out and to push new systems. If the system needs more than a couple of pounds a year and can't be repaired then it should just be replaced with a R410a system as soon as possible. These alternatives are really only good for those that have a leaky system that don't want to upgrade, but then they are a pain to technicians that don't work with it. I don't care what they claim, they are not as good at transferring heat as R22. In this case I would have recharged with R22 after the repair Good work never the less.
R22 is trash
@@Mushroomcapgenova r22 cools way way better than r410. Half the pressures too . best refrigerant used in residential cooling besides r11
@@Clamjammer yea but r22 is being fazed out dude. It's over and done with. I am not looking to play games with swapping a r22 unit to another gas. It's all crap if you need to replace the unit you replace it. Period the end
@@Mushroomcapgenova 😂😂 what a comment. R22 is the miracle refrigerant and will be plentiful for years to come.
How much would this process cost? Where are you located? and are there any AC Techs that can do this in Charlotte, NC?
1) do you put same amount of 407c in weight as you would have had R22? 2) is it my understanding that changing the oil in the compressor to POE is enough for this conversion? did not quite understand what you meant by bringing it back. the oil in the lines? or for circulation. 3) my understanding is that the later R22 units they were already putting in POE vs mineral oil how can I find out which oil is in the system? Is there a test for POE oil? I can't find any info on the label it is a York unit. Thanks
Yes to both. Only 20% or more of the system oil needs to be poe.
Nathan, when you did this did you have the king valves closed? So when you broke the vacuum you broke it by adding the factory charge then cracked the king valves? Thanks
Didn’t watch it. But if he did he is an idiot
Just wondering about the POE oil being very hydroscopic? And also don't you need the bubble and dew points for superheat and subcooling with 407c? Just wondering.
hector6970 a filter dryer will dry the oil out. One quart doesn't hold much water. Maybe just a drop. Temperature glide is already built into most pressure temperature tables.
Cool thank you
Maybe 410 a is not the best but how many different cans of refrigerant do you need to carry today? Standard refrigerants should become standard.
Brian Ellsworth I only carry two types. R22 and R410a.
Curious about you mention to also just add the oil and overfill since none is pulled? So, minimum 20% POE of compressor-stated oil capacity of POE just added and leave it?
Tie Dye yes. Just add enough poe oil to return the mineral oil and you are good to go.
I've used r422b with great success! AC and reach in freezer box. No modifications! Negligible loss.
R407C is the closest replacement for R22, and is cheaper than R422B. You use R422B is because of no oil change required? Here is the video about comparison of different replacement refrigerants. th-cam.com/video/npyYvT2Z1wU/w-d-xo.html
@@alicepet1994 the guys around here have settled on r422b. One refrigerant to carry that works great. This coming from a trusted United Refrigeration manager.
R422 b works great, it’s just more expensive than 407
It is necessary to change the oil when you change freon R22 to 407 and why charging liquid gas directly to low side its not gonna burn the compressor when you that? Please reply me anyone can explain well? Thank you
Should I use POE 32 or 68?
I see people on TH-cam using 32.
I got local Johnstone telling me 68.
Please let me know! Thank you!
I've been adding straight 407C to R22 units for the past 4 years and no call backs. Systems are running great.
How are the pressures?similar?
@@Clamjammer very similar. Only thing different is that you turn the can upside down with the 407c. I add it very slowly.
refugiorod Add 20% POE on the top of mineral oil? Or 100% change out for POE just like he did in this video?
I am with the EPA and would like to visit with you. What is a good number for you?
Message me.
Question. I have an R-22 system on my RV Can I drop 407c into that system and be able to use it? Because $85 on eBay is A LOT more attractive than $600 plus for a new unit. I mean I can do a complete oil dump and replace if necessary, I just want to avoid removing a compressor from a rooftop unit and so on..
ElfNet Gaming rv compressors are weird. Changing oil is hard. I would just stay with r22. You can buy a 15 lb can or even 1 lb cans. Or, use 422b. But r22 will be best.
Well that unit is dry as we speak since I had to repair a leak in the suction line because someone put one of those screw on taps on it and didn't install it right. All the R22 leaked out slowly. so now It's leak free with a proper charging tap soldered in the line. I didn't think to look for smaller cans of 22.. I was pricing the normal jugs and they were about as much as a new AC unit..
Pretty much the procedure we follow. Most of the time we actually flush the system to remove most of the mineral oil that’s remaining. In Australia this can sometimes be more expensive than charging with r22 though depending on who manufactured the compressor, Copeland scrolls are fine to have a bit of mineral oil but with a maneurop the suggested thing is to remove as much oil as possible and if you can, change the oil twice. With certain compressors the cost is actually cheaper to use r22 because POE is quite expensive. Obviously over time if it’s in bad shape and you know it’ll leak again soon just do the oil change because 407c is definitely a lot cheaper
P.s. it sometimes also depends on the customer we have one particular customer who doesn’t want to change from r22 due to the capacity drop and that leading to their switchrooms overheating (no redundant cooling)
The manufacturers specify the high purity I think just to cover their asses. Oil blends are used all the time in the automotive industry. Also 407c should have the exact same capacity as R22.
@@NathansHVAC in Australia it’s annoying because to be legally compliant we have to do retrofits according to manufacturer instruction, even if the manufacturers only specify it to cover their asses. And with the capacity thing it should be the same capacity but in practice it isn’t always and I’m not sure why. It’s definitely not as much capacity drop as mo99 but it’s still measurable on larger systems and tends to trip head pressure on those 45+ degree days (about 115 Fahrenheit).
The main customer of ours who still wants to use r22 is a certain power company, perhaps they have more dollars than sense but their infrastructure is very critical so I’m not going to argue with them
Hi... could you tell me if when doing a Freon retro fit from R22 to 407c, do you have to change the TXV on the Evap. to a 407C type.
No. That is the reason to use 407C. It is the closest match available to R22. The old expansion valve has R22 in the diaphragm. All the other retrofits require adjustment or replacement of the expansion valve. R407C is close enough that no changes are needed other than putting in 20% or more POE oil to return the existing mineral oil in the system.
I'd like to know where you get this 20% from of POE oil added to R22 system to convert to 407c when Emerson as well as Tecumseh say nothing about this 20% figure. In fact they say that you should have no more than 5% mineral oil in the system and optimum is 1% mineral oil or less. Tecumseh goes on to say that if the model of the compressor doesn't contain a 'C' notation in the model number referencing R407c as acceptable then 407c is not recommended for use in that compressor. I've read things you say about listening to the pros but then when I go and read what you post as reference material that reference material is in contradiction to what you say. # Keeping it real.www.certifiedrefrigerant.com/copeland_r22_r407c_retrofit_guidelines.pdf (split links hopefully this will work.)certifiedrefrigerant.com/tecumsehguidelines%20for%20utilization%20of%20r407c.pdf
I get that number from a Phd chemical engineer at one of the large refrigerant manufactures. His specialty is compressor oil and refrigerants. I won't name his name or where he works. But, he basically says that 20% POE will work on most residential applications that don't have long vertical rises to the compressor. If you email me, I will forward his exact reply. n a t h a n g w @ a i r m a i l . n e t without the spaces.
Yes must be
Great video thanks! , the only thing stopping me from doing it is, I don't have a vaccuum pump, my question.... is the vaccuum pump something I a must have when recharging the system from 100% empty?
People used to purge. Buy the epa forbids it now. Plus, purge wont flush out moisture. Get a cheap pump.
@@NathansHVAC thanks for the quick response! In other words I do need to get a vaccuum pump right?
@@NathansHVAC my system is empty so I'll replace the oil as shown in the video, once I've replaced it do I need the vacuum pump in order to add the new 407c ? or can I just hook up the tank and gauges and add the gas?
So I have an accumulator and I'm changing a 5 ton r22 unit to r407c. Was just going to RX flush, blow out with nitrogen, then replace with new compressor that comes with POE oil. I guess I dont have to take the accumulator out and dump out any oil?
If you are doing the compressor, might as well take out the accumulator. Also paint it
Is r421a better than R407c? Thank you for your video.
Did u have to flush the system out first? ? or just only the oil from the compressor? good video
Flush is for burn outs. Mixing oil is fine.
Mixing oils gives you different temperature glides
@@GarzAAA956 mixing mineral oil and Poe oil is not compatible together you'll end up replacing that system within next 6 months or less due to will eventually knock that compressor out
I love AC guys like this...I get to come behind them and sell the homeowner a nice new system and earn their business for life at a legitimate AC company. Keep up the "good" work. Cheap fixes are expensive fixes.
drewdavis08 what was wrong with this?
You have to good point. I reached a point in my life where I can fix everything. That means I have a house full of junk.
Legitimate = sell you a new system no matter what is wrong!
You sell a 10k system when you only really need a $400 fix.
I use R438a (M099) and no oil change. No failures in 5+ years.
Same here. I just change the driver. No problems. About 8 peices of equipment in the last 4 or 5 years.
Drier
Propane is scary
I had an experience just removing the r22 refrigerant and adding, 407C with oil in the cylinder already,, and the compressor got very hot pretty quickly and didn't want to work, a scroll compressor with mineral oil, did i was supposed to add poe oil although the cylinder said that already had oil with the refrigerant? did the compressor is damaged now? thanks in advance for you response....
You should CHANGED the mineral oil to POE oil!
You need at least 20% POE oil in the system. That is about 8 ounces. I doubt there was very much oil in the cylinder. You can use a hand oil pump to add the oil. Or, suck the oil in during an evacuation.
ok.. so do you thing i already damaged the compressor? i took out the 407c back but havent put back anything again,, not sure if it going to work back..
How much is the R22 per KG over there? In Kenya it’s only $5 per kg so we still use new R22 systems.
Thanks for this. My scammer hvac service contract co said there was nothing you could replace R22 with and my old system was junk. Conveniently they have a "special" on replacement systems. 🙄 I'm also glad I did a little research on R22a DIY kits. Shit - that stuff's scary!
can you share more please> I literally had the same D bag. lol
@@OnceShy_TwiceBitten - haha I totally forgot about this video. I spent a fair bit of time trying to find somebody who would make this transfer and nobody wanted to take it on and I didn’t have time to do DIY. So I’m ashamed to say I folded like a cheap lawn chair and bought a new AC system and furnace. I must say the more modern DC variable speed fan is a huge improvement keeping our house cool. Fight the good fight brother!
in Indonesia r407c is widely used for water cooling machines and also air dryers, the compressor machine used is a scroll type, the question is whether r407c can be used in rotary compressors?
yeah but tell me please how many oz need it the compressor of the new oil to R-407, thanks
Hello, I hope you can give me advise on this
Currently, I have R22 3 Ton it stops cooling after 30 minutes. its 11 years old, tech said compressor heats up then stops.
So my question is which brands do you recommend and coolant? I have a quote for $4k Guardian 3 ton/14 seer with new evaporator coil 410a. Or American standards 3 Ton/ 14 seer with coil 410A $5800. do you recommend changing the pipes or flushing it should be good enough
? In my city of lodi,ca electric is not expensive last month usage 1184 kwh total $200 that's heavy use, in winter we use 675kwh
Delta Transportation Worldwide check your outside condenser coil. If it is dirty it can cause high pressure and trigger the high pressure switch. I have seen a lot of situations like yours. When the coils are dirty the heat wouldn’t be released. High temperature high pressure. Just clean the coil you will be fine. Some company push their technicians to sell whole unit to get commissions.
I do pretty much the same thing but I use a syringe and flexible plastic tube and remove the oil through the process tube and replace what I took out.I understand why you sweated that Compressor out .I am retired but you should do a video using the process tube.good video.
Thanks for the pointer.
many compressors don't have process tubes ,but if it has it use it.great video.Everyone better be ready after 2020.There will be lots of work for everyone.Just seems to me they should have made the refrigerant safe for Mineral and synthetic,
Actually, 2019 is zero production of new R22 refrigerant.
Question Is it cheaper to retro fit an old ac unit. Verses buying a new unit. Since they don't make r22 anymore?
My cutoff is 15 years. If it is older than that, it isn't worth putting a lot of money into it.
I have an old 4 Ton R22 split system, the compressor rotted through releasing all the R22. The Attic is very in accessible, so I opted to purchase a new 407C compressor and leave the coil alone. Anybody see any problems with this strategy ? Now I need to get the system charged ? Can I do this myself ? Where can I rent the gear ?
Great video. Great conversion!
You just done what 99% of AC companies say you can't do. They will sell you a new system though. How is the system holding up with the new coolant?
System is doing fine
and I don't have balance so what is it the pressure of R-407 Low and High pressure, the R-22 work wint 60-70 low and high 230 psi, so what is ther pressure in R-407 thanks
R407c is the same pressure as r22. It is the closest match possible for pressure and capacity.
can i buy a 410a condensing unit and drain the compressor use poly ester and charge with 407 ? air handler looks almost new but system is 20 years old
So when you evacuate the r22 charge it doesn't pull out all the oil in the compressor too? Isn't oil mixed in with charge?
Ron's Electrical no the oil is still there but read my comment
Great video ! What is the operating pressure of 407 ? Around 75 ?
Do you change the piston metering device?
how much freon (R410 A) does is usually take to bring a 3.5 ton unit from 3 degree of supercool to 10 degree ?
The name plate says the total charge. The capacity is proportional to the total charge.
the charge will be 80% in R407 the pressure is hi on R407 and lower in R22?? i m learnig hvac
Mo99 is 80% of the charge of r22
That's what I'm saying this guy's out of his fucken mind sayng you gain capacity, there's no fcking way!!! otherwise everybody would be using it !!!you lose capacity on all the replacements
I was just told my ac was leaking...some dye would have to be put in to find it and would get very expensive. Also it uses r22, which can't be used anymore, so only possibility is a new ac unit.
Are there any tax incentives for taking an old (but working) R22 unit out of service and replacing it with a new one (R410)?
I replaced my HP R22 outdoor unit with straight A/C condenser and used R 407c; indoor unit is 26 y/o; it works like a charm; want to upgrade system down to 3 tons but it'll take awhile before I decide what to get. I'm a retired HVACR guy!
When adding the POE oil at 20%. 20% of what?
when retrofitting,should I change the filter dryer to the same I have or get a different brand and quality?
Changing the filter dryer is always a good idea if you are taking the pressure out of the system anyway. The main thing is having 20% or more POE oil to return the R407c refrigerant.
how much oil is in one rotary compressor 24.000 btu sanyo thanks ,,
NU22 just drops right in to replace R22. No fuss, no muss--ya cheeky bastards.
I used to use M099 as a drop in and never had a problem, was made by Dupont and not National so United didnt sell it.
How much would that kinda job run ?
again I understand that their are a lot of variables that come into play when you give an estimate but i was wondering you could help your viewers with a Idea
arabiantxn you’d honestly be halfway to a new condenser and evaporator coil factoring in time and labor, finding a company to even do this would be hard too considering where I’m at in the mid Atlantic I rarely hear of companies using the R22 substitutes to be honest. Most of the time you’d get a residential salesman trying to sell you a 20 seer unit that you don’t need instead of this
Brandon Willey o
How much time did you allow between adding new oil and starting compressor?
Chackbay Polarmatic no time. just evacuate and charge with 407c.
Converting a R22 system to R407c
1 I read 95% polyolester oil (POE) and 5% mineral (old R22 oil) is OK.
2 POE oil is hygroscopic that means the oil should be pumped in and the oil can should not be opened to the air.
But great work this is almost unknown by local Hvac companies here in DFW Thank You
As a Hvac engineer
You can open compressor
Removing the valve stem.
Insert a rubber tube down to the bottom of the compressor
Suck out 95% the old R22 mineral oil.
Re install valve stem
vac system
Purge with dry N2
Vac system
Charge with R407C
That way the compressor stays in place and all your doing is sucking out 95% of the old R22 mineral oil adding new POE oil then re install valve stem. Purge with dry N2. Vac the system and charge with R407c.
Pulling the compressor IMO is not necessary.
The above is a really low cost way to go from expensive obsolete R22 to low cost R407c
The moisture sensitivity is over rated. It takes hours for POE oil to saturate. And, when it does saturate it is still just parts per million of water.
How much per pound do you charge for R407c?
So my 10 year old 3 ton unit is leaking R-22.
The AC guy told me last year that I should replce my entire system because the days of R-22 are coming to a close.
Are you telling me that I can keep my current system, have someone fix my leak, then convert me to a newer freon?
Why do these guys constantly try to rip people off?
Yes you can go to R-407c which is much less expensive. Some shops use it, some don't. Any they're in business to make money. You do not have to pull the compressor out though. They make a pump you can stick in the compressor and remove most of the oil.
Only thing you have to remember is you pay to find and fix the leak. Pay to recover the r-22 and evacuate they system. Pay to recharge the system with the new replacement refrigerant and your left with a 10-20yr old unit that the compressor fails next year.
And when you need another costly repair next year, after paying to find and fix your leak, evacuate and recharge your 10 year old system, that by the way only has a 15-20 year life span, did the guy that converted it really do you any favors? Or are you better off upgrading to a new system with a warranty that likely won’t break when you need it most? I hardly see how that is consistently trying to rip you off.
R-410a is the new refrigerant and there isn't and 'converting' to it. It's all new equipment. You're just using a R-22 replacement by using R-407c. I tell my customers to get all they can get out of their equipment as it doesn't take long for us to get there to either repair or replace the unit. But you know it's coming so get your ducks in a row to be able to deal with when it happens. I'm not a believer in replacing equipment that doesn't need to be replaced. If you find the leak is in the evaporator coil, which is quite common, you can put in just an air handler or coil to break it down into smaller chunks of cost. You can use a R-410 a coil with R-22 but most of these guys don't know how. That way you'd have a new air handler with a coil that would work with either refrigerant and when the time comes to replace the outdoor unit that's all you'd have to do. Otherwise I've found few condenser coil leaks though they do occur and that really only leaves open piping that can be repaired or maybe a tube on the reversing valve if you have a heat pump. Seldom do we need to use a dye and never use sniffer type leak detectors. 99% of the time it's visually obvious where the leak is. Most want to sell units but don't get that it's really bad for their business. I mean they're not going to make any real money for 10 or years so they have to find new fish to fry constantly. I repair many older units to give my customers a heads up that things are going to go bad. We don't just slam the door at 'you need a new unit'. Many people aren't sitting on $5k - $6k to put in a new unit and it can be devastating. We have no problem reasonably repairing older equipment even if it's a R-22 unit. Others think new equipment is the only solution. Problem is, the newer equipment isn't nearly as reliable as the older stuff and to us it makes no sense to replace working equipment. Finding leaks should be easy to do and only if it's a major component, such as a condenser or evaporator coil, would we say replace it.
Even though R22 will be banned from manufacture and import next year, R22 stockpiles will be around for many years to come. Plus the price has really dropped recently.
I was told by a tech that the r22 Evap coils and txv’s may not handle the higher pressures of 407c. Was that a load of crap?
You are probably talking about R410a, which is double the pressure of R22. R407c is nearly the exact same pressure as R22. If you read the box of a R22 expansion valve, it will say R407c on the box. Here is picture of a box. i.ebayimg.com/images/i/191659740462-0-1/s-l1000.jpg
My copeland compressor shorted and the oil is burn (has r22), my compressor need to be changed and the system needs to be flush with nitrogen gas and replace the compressor and filter and add poe oil and r407c gas. I work only 4hrs a day mon to fri. as a School bus driver. I do not have enough money to purchase a new system. Any advice Mr NatthansHVAC....feel like I am asking for trouble.
Luis Diaz the only way to do an acid clean up is put a suction filter when the compressor is replaced. that is the only method that is recommended by all the manfacturers. but the only do-it-yourself method is going to be a window unit.
Yeah. Get used to the heat.
Good video but did you flush the lines with RX11
Flush is just for burn outs. I have a video on cleaning burn out line sets with non-flamable brake cleaner and a high powered shop vac. Mixing oils is fine. The auto industry mixes all the time.
Its not necessary to replace the oil. If you put in Supco it will allow the 407 to pick up the mineral oil and move it and no sludge build up has been noted. Been following this method for 4 years now with no issues. Used it on systems up to 30 tons.
What do you mean put in Supco, is that oil, addative oe refrigerant?
Supco is just a brand....what the hell are you talking about Kathy? Can you please explain?
It’s an additive for the oil, used before on semi hermetic systems and it works really good
Old oil looks pretty clean. What's the best POE oil for R407C? Thank you
It just has to be the POE chemical designed for refrigeration applications. There are a few brands. It is about $50 per gallon last time I checked. But, you can buy quarts.
@@NathansHVAC Thank you for your quick response. I bought one gallon from ebay which costed me around $80
What does 45 Min on a compressor label for oil quantity mean?
45 oz of mineral oil. That only works for the old chlorine based refrigerants. You need polyolester for the new fluorine based ones.
@@NathansHVAC Wow, thanks. Decided to get my Universal and do a little refrigeration. First I'll upgrade my old Bryant. The furnace and AC have been working great for 28 years. So far I rebuilt the furnace completely. Now I will rebuild the AC and retrofit it with an HFC. The biggest problem is deciding which one, everyone has an opinion.
R22 to R407c or 410a . . . Fix or replace? It's so very confusing.
If the system is older than 15 years, dont spend much repairing it.
When I was a helper the tech bought this canister so it can convert instead of doing it this way.
Wow ! I would ask you one more question, but that would qualify me as an A*^& E. The best to you and your Family. Ted.
What was the small gauge you had connected to the pressure line , and what for ?
Sho Bud It’s a digital micron gauge your manifold gauges can show you a vacuum but what you really want is to pull a 500 micron vacuum that holds to ensure the system is free of air and moisture and leaks
Which camera do you use for video shoots?
Where can I find the amount of oil in a compressor? Thank you. Great video
Spec sheets sometimes show. Most compressors are about 30 ounces. The exact level isn't that important.
@@NathansHVAC Thank you for the info.
I have mix 134R to407c got temp in commercial cooler but next day got leak At the valve flange fix that and fill 407 c again and next day got the dryer leak fix that and fill 407 c and next day got leak at gas fill nozzle which was not leaking a day before 4 times I have done this lost lot of gas and labour cost now I do not know what to do .My technical man does not know what is happening .He repairs one place and next day a new place leaks pls assist
Get a navac nml1 leak detector and snoop soap bubbles. The proper tools make the proper repairs.
Disconnect suction and discharge line, clean the piping system with high pressure using nitrogen gas, fill the compressor with recommend r407c oil ,put the compressor back and then recharge with r407c
Is there any chance you can add R407c into a system with R22? Instead of having to remove the old R22 stuff completely? Like just toping off a R22 system with R407c?
Nice video bud. Good job
It will be interesting to see in the next few years how many "converted systems" fail early because of people not changing the oil.
There is no guessing about converting to R407c. All the major compressor manufacturers certify R407c as the R22 replacement. The engineers already did the longevity testing. Actually, R407c was almost considered as the long term refrigerant replacement instead of R410a.
Tecumseh certifies it:
certifiedrefrigerant.com/tecumsehguidelines%20for%20utilization%20of%20r407c.pdf
Copeland certifies it:
www.certifiedrefrigerant.com/copeland_r22_r407c_retrofit_guidelines.pdf
Bristol certifies it:
www.certifiedrefrigerant.com/bristol_r22_r407c_retrofit_guidelines.pdf
I was concerned about mixing POE and mineral oil. However, I mixed them 50/50 in a test tube without any noticeable separation even after 1 month. I also confirmed with my chemist contact at National Refrigerants that mixing the oils is fine. I made another video showing why R407c is the best R22 substitute based on EPA testing.
I don’t over think things. I let the engineers do the research. They are much more knowledgeable. I confirmed that 20% POE is good in a simple residential application. Residential oil return is much easier than low temperature refrigeration or commercial with very long vertical line lengths. It doesn’t take much to return the oil.
I don't like any of the drop in R22 replacements. They all use 3% butane to return the oil. The butane does nothing in the refrigeration cycle and probably is why they all lose capacity. Ebay keeps selling "Propane" as the eco friendly R22 replacement. There are obvious explosion hazards with that replacement. It is my opinion that 20% POE oil will return the mineral oil alot better than 3% butane. Also, R407c is the least expensive of all the retrofits. So, it is a no brainer to use R407c when I come across a flat system.
Rectorseal make a POE oil test. I had a oil refractometer 20 years ago when I did commercial. But, the best test when a bad converted compressor is found will be to turn it over and see if any oil comes out. If the compressor is dry, then no PEO oil was added to the system.
Butane is still a refrigerant, so it contributes to the cycle.
NathansHVAC butane can be used as a refrigerant. Propane is used in other nations as a home and auto refrigerant. It's no more dangerous than having a gas furnace.
Wich one butter 407 or r22 for cooling?
Can I charge an r22 system that had 407c with r22 without flushing it with nitrogen
They are the same properties. However, the EPA forbids mixing gases because it makes the R22 reclaim value zero and any reclaiming the R22 in the future will not be pure enough for reuse in another system. So, the EPA will require that the reclaimed R22 that you add will have to be destroyed.
With the prices for Freon this days I just add any replacement Freon for 900-1200$ and it works fine without doing all that ! I call ” Freon Adjustment “
Hey guys, we had a shade tree HVAC guy add stop leak to our 22 year old 2.5 ton R22 system. He then topped it off with R407c and said it was good to go. The system was at 40% before he started so what’s the damage gonna be to the system since he didn’t put in any synthetic oil with the top off. He added 2.5 #’s R407C. This was 3 days ago. Thanks for any help!
There’s a high chance that your compressor will fail, although you might be ok… and for these type of repairs try to use a professional, AC systems are freaking expensive to just let anybody work on them
After you convert it over do you need to change the piston and or txv
With a piston you'd simply adjust your charge to achieve the proper superheat. With a TXV you'd check the feed and (if necessary) adjust the device to maintain the proper superheat. The two refrigerants are close enough that a hardware change wouldn't be needed. You'd just need to make sure you charge the 407c as a liquid since it's a a zeotropic HFC refrigerant blend.
Hi is polyester oil came as ester oil like u would buy a auto parts store?thanks
It is the same.
I just changed a r22 system with 407C+, the plus lets you do a direct drop in with an additive already in the gas which mixes with the R22 oil. 407C+ is a little more expensive but it saves you the time of having to add oil. Also, if you get a leak later on, you only have to add 407c because the oil is already treated.
Old comment - but thanks. I'm a student studying for my Universal.
How much would you charge for that procedure ? I need to hear a clue.....
About half the cost of a new condenser and only warranty the new welds. What a waste of money.
Great video sir keep them coming 🙌🏻🙌🏻🙌🏻
can I extract the Freon and oil with the same pump? do I have to uninstall the compressor in order to get the oil out of it? please help me....
Anyi Pena Freon is a gas. oil is a liquid. it is best to pour out the mineral oil and replace it with poe. then evacuate and recharge.
Thanks a lot for replying , can I use a vacuum the get the oil out?
I have seen videos where people use a vacuum to extract the freon and then they extract the oil ,just want to know if they use the same vacuum
You really have to use specialized tools. A vacuum pump just works below 0 psi. A freon re-claimer works at 200 psi.
Thanks a lot for the information...
Thank you. Outstanding video.
What you do with the refuse 407 is bury it. Or the dumpster.
Bnas noches cuales son las presiones de trabajo del r407c y su sobrecalentamiento gracias
i have a question , is there uvdye for r22 to discover the leaks later on ?????? please answer me
fun to fun the sniffer Leak Detectors work the best. But if you have an old evaporator coil there is a 90% chance that the leak is there.
not about the evaporator but the problem is in the condenser haha could we discuss this in person somewhere , skype or facebook , i would like to learn a lot more thank you for reply ^^
Did the date ever take place? Do tell Lol
Great video. Crazy how times change, 407C is $600 a jug now 😂
Just wait till 2024 when R410a is banned. It's going to be nuts.
It’s time for retirement or fine another line of work 😂