ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 เม.ย. 2020
- Click here for Stepper Motors: www.omc-stepperonline.com//?t...
Click here for Servo Motors: www.teknic.com/products/clear...
Click here for CNC Control: www.centroidcnc.com/centroid_...
Click here for Machines: www.precisionmatthews.com/
Click here for Fusion360: aklam.io/c5qzM3 - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
Thanks for the comparison of the Stepper and Servo motors. You laid out the matrix for both where we won't have to search for the specifics.
Great job for everything you wanted to know but were afraid to ask.
Thank you.
John
Very Useful . I've a mechanical engineering degree and I totally approve about closed loop.
a must watch for mini-cnc motor introduction
Great job presenting all this information. I will definitely be buying closed loop stepper for my next mill.
This is knowledge gold. and your natural integrity is admirable thankyou
PERFECT! Finally found an overview of what components to search for! THANKS! Now to find boards n drivers
LD
Thank you! I have been researching laser engravers/cutters and wanted to learn more on what to look for in the areas of motors.
Very nice presentation. Thanks for putting this together and sharing!
Well, this video just answered about a dozen of my questions. Thanks for uploading.
Thanks for watching.
Excellent presentation Franco, I enjoyed it. Ciao, Marco.
thank you a lot for helping me so far, also the link to understand the connections is dope !! have a good one
great video! when I was shopping for steppers i read somewhere thats its best to buy one with low (mH Inductance) that's what I tried to do when i bought my second new nema 34 for the z
Good explanation, very easy to understand! Wish You all the best for the new year!
Hello, Franko,
I was wondering if you could make the same type of great video for the spindles this time. It was really interesting...
Thank you so much for the useful info!!!
Very good video. Good advice on quite a complicated subject.
God bless you for these excellent videos !!!
Thank you for providing this very informative video of valuable information. Much appreciated.
Great stuff! I am going to watch all of your videos now. Also, a video about any possible milling machines suitable for conversion to a CNC machiine would also help. I have seen lots of chinese simple milling machines but I don't know if they are precise enough and have enough mass to absorb vibrations. That would be a good help for a beginnger in this DIY CNC thing.
Thank you. I'm just starting & think this is good advice.
Sir, thank you. Big THANK YOU !
THANK YOU my friend for your great presentation if you want we can see one video of our diy cnc with closed loop nema 34 and it weights over 500kg. The first setup was with nema34 open loop.If you want i can send you the link of the video
Great info. thanks for sharing!
Nice job on comparative data for servo vs stepper (closed loop). I still want servos...lol
Good presentation. I'm currently working on a series 1 Bridgeport which I ran with Ahha software and stepper drivers. The computer won't boot, and it's on my "do not resuscitate"list. I'm going with Centroid acorn for control. I'd like to reuse the Ahha drives and motors at least for now. I may upgrade to the closed loop steppers at some point in the future. The original X And Y motors were 425 oz in. I think that was WAY undersized, and I'm looking at the big end of the available motors...
Thank you so much for the info
Good Vid! It's worth counterbalancing the z axis both for speed/smaller motor, but also to save wear on the ball screw, and especially to reduce the non parallel loading on the ways from the cantilever.CHoose your support point on the counterbalance to nearly eliminate the cantilever on the vertical way . I've also thought that a z axis must wear faster because of the cantilever PLUS the oil tends to run out of the ways vs horizontal ways, so I counterbalanced mine as soon as possible.
another tip: using an air cylinder with a relieving* type regulator allows for easy adjustment of the counter-force, and a constant force regardless of cylinder volume/z-travel. It also allows for manual adjustment if you sometimes install/remove heavy attachments to the head
Thanks alot Infinity is overpriced
thanks. very helpful.
Very informative and a great video. I watched this video and truly feel confident in considering purchasing the products needed for a CNC conversion of my Grizzly G0602 Lathe. I also have a large Harbor freight mill the I wanted to convert also. I have already with confidence look at these companies products you have provided the links. Thank you so much and God Bless
just got the large hf mill, what did you go with? also where did you mount the dro scales if used?
@@TheUnofficialMaker I have hurt my shoulder and I am getting ready to have my shoulder replaced will get started back when I have mended. The answer is I have not started but I will.
Great video ,thanks very much!!
Great vid, very informative
This is Great Content, Franco. Just the types of things I need to know in order to save some money. I've been considering purchasing AVID's Turn-Key CNC Electronics system for $2800, for my DIY Router, but maybe I can do it myself. Thanks for. the great content. I've been looking for some time for more info on the ins and outs of wiring a CNC Controller.
If you have some patience and are half-way decent with basic wiring skills, you can build one yourself. Centroid Acorn system comes with really good wiring diagrams that cover just about everything. And, I have several videos on the topic, as well.
@@FrancoCNC I've ordered the Acorn, and spoke with Teknic today. They ran a simulation based on my machine, and suggested a smaller, less expensive servo than I originally thought I would require. So I think that I'll be going that direction. Thanks for all of the great videos!
Thanks again
Good information sir
Super helpful
I was given an older InterLab Robotics plotter engraver CNC machine . It's in great shape .motors work , dc servo motors with optical encoders . I do need a control board , I believe the REV4 centroid acorn board would be a good fit. only going to be cutting on lite wood , plastic . New to CNC machine any advice wood be great , Thanks.
In my experience with open-loop steppers, I have never lost steps on any that I have. They average out at 425 oz.in in x-y axis and 640 oz.in in the z on a grizzly G0463 mill conversion. I have snapped 5/8" endmills while cutting too fast or deep. The only thing I regret with the mill is the 2000~ spindle speed. I have the forces to cut at a much faster speed but the slower spindle speed makes cutting my primary metal which is aluminum a very slow process. I have a few videos showing how slow I run the thing. Any faster and I get poor finishes. Actually, I could have at least doubled the speed but these parts need to be polished to mirror finish. I've done other parts at 2x+ the speed without issue. I use the videos for my personal use to remember how I set up things. They aren't intended to be informative.
I take it you are going to convert your new PM mill correct? I love these types of videos and will make sure I follow your progress. I would like to see how fast a 4K spindle on that PM will do a part.
Thanks Rick, I appreciate your input. I have an HM 46 from "Machiner warehouse" Australia. A fair bit bigger than the G0463. Think I'll go with a 12Nm (1700 oz-in) for Z, and a 4.8 Nm (680 oz-in ) or 9Nm (1274 oz-in)for X, Y.
Faster speeds (feeds) is where you start to loose steps.
As someone who has been down that road, based on your slow spindle (2k RPM), your feed rates are slow enough that you are operating around max torque of the motors and thus less likely to loose any steps. Stepper motor torque curves plummet after about 10 to 15% of their max speed. Like you, when spindle speed was my limiting factor, I had zero problems with lost steps, I also couldn't feed at more than about 19 to 20ipm with a 1/4 cutter at 2200rpm to keep proper chip load and with 5mm lead ball screws and direct drive from the steppers. That put the steppers at 99 to 101rpm (i.e. in their max usable torque range).
I later upgraded the spindle setup to be able to get 8000rpm and at 8k, to keep proper chip load, I had to feed at a minimum of 72ipm and with direct drive system, that put the motors at about 365rpm and based on manufactures spec'd torque curve, I was down more than 50% of the rated 425oz-in. (if I'm to believe Stepperonline torque curve for the motors I was using, I was down at roughly 200oz.in at that speed) and I would loose steps. When I would adjust feeds to account for chip thinning and thus had to feed even faster (over 100ipm), not only would I loose steps but I would actually stall the motors on finish cuts while trying to keep a reasonable chip load that still gave acceptable surface finishes.
Even after I upgraded to closed loop steppers, I still couldn't get the feeds I wanted for plastics that I run from time to time. Since then, I went to DMM Tech servo's and now I can rapid at 900ipm and cut aluminum all day long with finish passes at 200imp without ever missing a beat.
In the end, speed is the enemy of steppers and them loosing steps, hence the reason why any and all professional level CNC machines run closed loop servo's. If they didn't, they couldn't get the feeds fast enough to match the spindle speeds they run at now a days and get the SFM for the give materials.
Steppers are great if you are running low feeds but as soon as you increase spindle speeds, you have to match the feeds or you put more heat into the part and wear the tool faster because chip load reduces and the tool starts to rub rather than cut. This is actually where the seemingly better finish is coming from when running high spindle speeds and slow feeds. You are actually rubbing more than cutting and this is bad for the tool and for the part if you need to hold very tight tolerances. In aluminum for example, I rough with carbide and finish with HSS tools because HSS can and almost always is ground to a shaper edge and thus leave a nicer finish when taking really light cuts like that of finishing passes. Carbide although very touch cant be sharpened as shape without risk of blowing the cutting edge off the tool because of its brittleness and thus when taking really light cuts it rubs rather than cuts which wears it out faster and puts more heat into the tool and the part as mentioned previously.
Excellent explanation. 12:45 - lol
I'm glad people still find these videos to be useful.
It still comes on but i cant control the motors any more. I think because I changed the x axis to nema 34. Y and Z are nema 23. Can you help with this?
I am looking at doing a CNC conversion for a PM-25MV mill. I am thinking of just doing closed loop NEMA 34 on all axis. Is there any downsides to the larger size motors that I am missing (clearance etc?). I would like to over size the motors so I never have to worry about it. Thanks
Thanks just getting into cnc world been in vinyl cutting world on small scale but now going to do plasma cutter for first build, only 4ft x 4ft table any suggestions?
interested in how the Clearpath SDSK would compare on your pro/con chart. It's a closed-loop servo! How does that work with centroid acorn - it's open loop right?
Hey Franco... I have a 3040 cnc router. My controller box not working right. All of my motorboards lights are flashing, my cooling fan not turning, and i can smell electrical burn smell a little bit. My relay light is flashing too. I dont under stand. I changed my XAxis motor from a nema 23 to nema 34. Maybe i need more power now.
Hi ! I am new to this , got question to ask , can I use multiple power supply to run each of them , mean one power supply run one motor etc ... Thank you .
Hi Mate,
I am going to carry a steel pallet (overall weight of 700 kg) over rollers with 2 stepper motors on each sides, do you reckon "Nema 42 CNC Stepper Motor Bipolar 30Nm" is enough for this application?
Great 👌🏻
Thing I am most confused about is how to wire the spindle motor so you can control the RPM within your part program. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Hello, what is the difference between a hybrid stepper motor running at 3 phase alternating current and a hybrid stepper motor operating at 2 phase DC, please help and thank you very much
thank you for this information, please i have question, its better to use one power supply or three
When possible, it is more efficient to use one large power supply rather than three small ones.
Thanks Franco, helpful info and best site for closed loop steppers i've seen to date, do they ship fast? Do you have a site recommendation for double nut ballscrews(rolled, not ground)? I'm planning a DIY cnc mill build for mostly aluminum but some steel work also, i'm desiring feed rates of med(steel) med/fast(aluminum). Ideas for design so far- epoxy granite structure, inwin 20mm linear bearing rails, 20mm ballscrews, closed loop 1100 oz/in X&Y and 1600oz/in Z using Centroid Acorn. I'm still unsure about the spindle design, er32 collets would be sufficient. Any help would be great.
Sptepperonine ships with a few different carriers but DHL seems to be the least expensive to the USA. I've had a lot of product from Asia ship to the US with DHL and they usually get it here within two weeks. You bring up a good point on the ball screws - perhaps that will be the subject of an upcoming video! It sounds like you are building a really nice machine. If you need higher "router like" RPM, then you will be looking at spindles with ER style collets. Max diameter for ER 16 is 10mm so you may need to go up to an ER 20 if you need to grip anything larger than that.
What is the problem with RPM and torque in case of increasing or decreasing for the motor ?
Hi Franco, thanks for Your work, very helpful for a newbie like Me;) one question about motors.. I see tree different kinds of the same stepper and drivers; HE, HS and HP motors and Y, S and P board.. Do You really find differences btw them in terms of performance and noise ? ;)
Hi. I've used the Orange Y series motors/drivers and they seem to be really good. You can set the micro stepping to a high value and the motors will be very smooth and quiet. I'm sure the T series are superior (more efficient, less heat) to the Y series but depending on the application, you may never see the difference. For a DIY machine, I'd have no problems using the Y series. But, if I had an application where the stepper motor was going to run at high speeds for extended periods of time, I'd spend the extra money and get the T series.
I need your help please, I just purchased an "ONEFINITY" CNC wood worker version, the router I wanted to use is too heavy and the motors could not run it, it was dragging, I like to replace all four motors not concerned so much as cost as to great torque and efficiency.
hahaha the blue logos thing!! xD Very cool recap, i've learned a couple of things today! Tks for the video.
I've got a question for you: in 3D printers - assuming a ~400mm/s speed and ~8000mm/s2 acceleration - one has constant and very fast changes of direction. I've been trying to figure out if a nema 23 would be a good replacement for a nema 17, but I can't find conclusive info. Main doubt is regarding the mobile mass of the motor, (which is considerably bigger on a nema 23), hence MAYBE being prejudicial, (or not being so capable of fast changes in direction as a nema 17). Would love to hear you opinion/insight on this. Tks :)
Hi. I'd use NEMA 17 closed loop stepper motors for your 3D printer. They will be lighter than NEMA 23 and the closed loop drivers will provide a much higher performance than open loop motors.
Please do a close loop stepper video.
Will do!
How can you tell that you have an open loop nema 17 or 23? I bought a CNC motor kit from China years ago 2007 just opening it up now. It's a 4axis set up it came with 4 stepper motors a 24 volt DC power supply 4 step driver's . I had grand ideas about having a 5th axis so I bought a nema 34 axle through from Stepper online. Only I don't know if the kit came with open or closed loop stepper motors whatever they are. Long story short I'm back on the build and I've decided on a fixed gantry chain driven model. I think I have a pretty good design with a lot of travel on my axis. Gantry is pretty beefy table is relatively small with 1 ft z axis 2 ft y axis and 40" xaxis just 3 maybe in the future I'll put a 4th. Thanks for your help and advice.Oh I built my whole setup with Delrin and aluminum mounted on a steel table that has level adjustments
A closed look motor will have some sort of encoder. In addition to the power wires for the motor, there will be other wires (smaller wires) for the encoder.
Can we run closed loop stepper motor without encoder
Hey,
Thanks for the vid, it's great. I was already looking at the stepper online closed loop stepper to upgrade my cnc and you confirmed my choice. As I'm planning to do so, are your links affiliated? do you have discount code ? So you you can have a small benefit of my purchase.
Again thanks for your video and keep doing great content, i like it.
best
Hi. I'm glad my video helped you. Here is the link with my affiliate code: www.omc-stepperonline.com//?tracking=5e66c8d3ae793
Thank you for helping to support my channel!
You are probably wrong about the power supply amperage. First, as someone mentioned it is current through one coil, when two coil enabled current will doubled. But that person is also wrong about the power supply current rating. I have a motor, it has a current rating of 4A. But it also has a voltage rating of 1.1V. Do I really need a 48V 4A(or even 8A) power supply? Of course not - to limit current to 8A, driver should down voltage to 1.1V. and it is done probably using PWM - the same technique that the switching power supply used. I bet even 1A 48V power supply will drive this stepper just fine. And if not - a good 50V capacitor on a 48V line will help.
How about accuracy ?
the stepper current is "per phase". For a 3A stepper you need a 6A power supply
That has not been my experience. How can you have more than one phase active simultaneously?
@@FrancoCNC Depending on the control strategy. Only if you drive "full step" you have 3A. If you drive "half step", then you have some periods where both coils are on simultaneously
Is the 23 and the 34 have the same accuracy? Should I just upgrade to a 34 for a high use machine longevity?
Both sizes have the same accuracy. However, if you have room to mount the larger motors, you probably won't regret having them. Bigger is better, in my opinion.
DC vs AC servos?
Why would one choose a bipolar stepper motor?
So can you buy an open loop now and later convert to closed loop
Negative. It is best to just buy the closed loop drivers/motors in the first place.
Stepper for the spindle is a no-go I guess?
Correct. Steppers don't make good spindle motors.
Sir how to program CNC machine
isn't the weight of the axis a factor in chosing the motor?
Are clearpaths built with or can be attached to receivers so they can be remote controlled
I think you can do it if you have the right motor. Call ClearPath and and them. This may be a good reference for you if you don't know the frequencies for an RC receiver PWM output: dronebotworkshop.com/servo-motors-with-arduino/
@@FrancoCNC thanks for getting back, I’m new in this electronics world and I’m saving to build a battle bot
Reach out to this guy: th-cam.com/channels/slfKen2hz6jJMeQgCzp5bA.html
I think he may be able to answer some of your questions.
@@FrancoCNC ok thanks
So what exactly happens if the closed loop motor can't do what is asked. My stepper squeals, so looses steps and the job can continue at the wrong position.
Your saying the closed loop will NEVER do that? What does it do if it simply can't do what is asked?
Great question. The drive will generate an alarm, stop moving and close (or open) a set of contacts that you can wire into the alarm circuit of your motion control board.
The prices I'm seeing on the StepperOnline store front are ridiculous. Even the 1700 oz.in. NEMA 34 motor and controller is cheaper than what I paid for a single Gecko G201x driver (without the stepper motor) on my CNC router. What is the downside? In this case the prices are making me wary of the product. A full kit with 2 NEMA24 500 oz.in. (for X & Y axis) and a 1600 oz.in. NEMA34 (Z axis) is cheaper than a single 750W NEMA34 servo from DMM. The Gecko G201X stepper controllers are pretty rugged and don't usually fail to being mishandled by disconnection the connectors when powered up. Leadshine early on would fail just looking at them wrong - though they seem to be much better now. What is the weakness of the CL86Y/CL57Y?
Hi. I'm guessing you haven't calculated the shipping fees on the items that come from Asia. Once you do, you'll see shipping that is a significant part of the cost. Unless you buy one of the few products that's actually manufactured in the USA, you'll see most all of these types of items come from Asia. There are some differences in quality of the product but I find the biggest variable is the quality of the support. If can range from non-existent to pretty good. The stepperonline support is as good as it comes for products in this price range. I'm feel very comfortable using their products and I've not had any bad experiences, thus far. Their drives, motors and power supplies are just as good if not better than anything else I've used.
It’s funny how you state that servos maintain torque at high rpm when this directly contradicts the graphs you can easily find through clear path. Yes they maintain HIGHER torque at faster rotations, but not the peak or anywhere near it. Just a quick observation
Compared to steppers, servos maintain more torque at higher rpm.
Do you make a CNC conversion kit for the PM-728V-T? What is your email address?
servo NOT 3x expensive, today have 10x expensive. out of normal hobby user budget and far.
ONEFINITY: Nema 23 Bipolar 1.8deg 1.26Nm (178.4oz. in) 2.8A 2.5V 57X56MM X56MM (4) Wires this is what is on the machine now, what could you suggest to swap this motor for a more robust and powerful as to this without too many technical changes
important have only motor current and driver handle this current. if use arduino 4899 driver can max motor is only 2,5A current. but normal cnc used 3-5A current motors. minimum 425 oz about. DM556 handle max 5,6 A motor, voltage no matter but better use near max volt what driver can use, etc, DM556 max volt have 50 volt better use 45-48 volt power supply, and if motor need 3A/motor need each axis all motors calculate together, mean 3 axis need minimum 9A power supply, 4 axis need minimum 12A power.
vink, dont buy onefinity parts very owerprice, all same parts can buy other shop 4-7 x cheapen. one finity cost 3000$ about and all same parts can buy aliexpress, 1000$ and install parts together. sstupid buy kit if can do all same in home DIY.